ADHD and High Sensitivity

If you’ve been diagnosed with ADHD, or you suspect you might have it, listen in on this episode of the Awaken Your Wise Woman podcast as host Elizabeth Cush and Dr. Jennifer Dall talk about unmasking neurodivergence and managing it holistically.

Are you often forgetful? Do you pile lots on your plate, but have a tough time following through with all of it? Do you have a hard time getting organized? Do you beat yourself up about all of it or do you put your nose to the grindstone and work twice as diligently to be who you think you’re supposed to be? If any of that sounds familiar, go easy on yourself. In this episode of Awaken Your Wise Woman, host Elizabeth “Biz” Cush, LCPC, a licensed professional therapist, founder of Progression Counseling in Maryland and Delaware, and a soul guide for highly sensitive women, welcomes Jennifer Dall, EdD, a grief-informed neurodivergence specialist and founder of ADHD Holistically, for a discussion of women and ADHD (attention deficient hyperactivity disorder). They’ll talk about myths and misconceptions, diagnosing ADHD later in life, management strategies and more. 

“A lot of people think ADHD is the 8-year-old boy who is impulsive and hyperactive and not the good girl who is focusing and smart and working really, really hard.” 
 — Jennifer Dall

Find all full show notes and resources for every episode here.

Transcript

Jennifer Dall Interview 

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

ADHD, neurodivergence, masking, executive function, emotional dysregulation, holistic approach, structure, pandemic impact, women's experiences, diagnosis challenges, self-awareness, coping strategies, habit stacking, mental health, support systems.

SPEAKERS

Elizabeth Cush, Jen Dall

Elizabeth Cush  00:01

Biz, Hi and welcome back to The Awaken Your wise woman podcast. I'm your host. Biz Cush, and as always, thank you for being here. And if this episode or any of the others you've listened to resonate with you and you feel like there's someone out there that it might land with. Also, please share it. The podcast you know one you never know who's listening and who. You know what episodes align with which people, but I always ask that you share it, because that helps the audience to grow, and as the audience and listeners grow more people find it, which is my goal is to reach as many women as possible. So yeah, so if this episode or any of the others feel particularly resonant, I'd love it if you shared it this week, we have, we're talking about ADHD in women and how it shows up, but also just the struggle of finding out, or the the awareness of finding out later in Life that maybe you have ADHD. It is a topic that I hold near and dear to my heart. I don't have ADHD, but I know many of my clients do, and I have been really sort of opening my awareness and learning about it, and trying to just be more compassionate and holding space for my clients who maybe struggle or are learning how to manage their ADHD and my guest today is Dr Jennifer Dahl, before we jump into that really super interesting conversation about ADHD, neuro divergence and divergence and masking, I just wanted to put out there that the circles of sacred sensitivity are are ongoing. We meet monthly on the third Thursday of every month at 12pm eastern time via zoom. It's a virtual meeting. It is really just a place to hang out and connect with other highly sensitive women. So if this sounds like a place you'd like to be or hang out with me, all the information is there on my website. Go to Elizabeth cush.com and you will find it there. You will also find it here in the show notes for this episode. All right, well, let's jump into my conversation with Jennifer Dahl and talk about ADHD. Hi, Jen, and welcome to The Awaken Your wise woman podcast. It's so nice to have you here.

Jen Dall  03:07

Hi biz, thank you for having me. It's just wonderful to talk with you today.

Elizabeth Cush  03:11

Yeah, I'm really excited for our conversation, but for listeners who might not know who you are, maybe share a little bit about yourself.

Jen Dall  03:21

Sure I'm Dr Jennifer doll, and I am the owner. I created ADHD holistically as a way to look at sort of some going away from non medical ways of dealing with ADHD and things that go along with it. I am a coach and a consultant. I am an author and a speaker, and I spent about 25 years in public education before I took the plunge and moved on over to doing my own thing and working with people outside of the schools. So this has been a big jump, but it's been really, really fascinating. And this is, I think, what I'm called to do.

Elizabeth Cush  03:56

Wow, wow. Yeah, I would imagine that's a very different experience working, you know, doing your own thing versus working in a system.

Jen Dall  04:05

Yes, it is. It's different, and it's it's been awakening opening, as a person with ADHD, going from such systems to finding my own systems.

Elizabeth Cush  04:17

Yeah, oh, yeah. I, I I feel like as a business owner, it, it, it can shine a light on a lot of our own personal stuff that we aren't even really maybe ready to look at. But, yeah, but it's good. It does help us sort of come to terms or whatever, or heal in ways that maybe we weren't sure we needed, but yeah, so you your, you yourself. I guess were you officially, like, diagnosed with ADHD? How did that come about? Because you said you you learned later in life. I think that 

Jen Dall  04:59

right. So being in education and often working with students with ADHD and other learning disabilities, over time, we learned a lot more. We're still learning more. And as I I myself, went to more school. You know, further education, more time with kids, more learning. I started to pay attention to more to what was going on. I think that one of the big things that kind of brought it out for me was as we started to diagnose more girls, find more girls who were showing up, I would look at more of them, especially in the last couple years when I was teaching, and realize that so much of what I saw on them was something that I remembered for me from when I was their age, before that, you know, I knew about ADHD and new things. I would ask people, so do you think I have ADHD? And they say, oh, no, you know, you've done this. You have graduate degrees, you have a doctorate, you have, you know, you run your family, you do all these things. There's no way. And a lot of that was based on what a lot of people think ADHD is, which is, you know, the eight year old boy who is impulsive and hyperactive and not the good girl that is focusing and smart and working really, really hard. The more I knew and the more I learned, the more I became more and more convinced. And I finally, after a couple other things, I just finally had the nerve to stand up for myself and ask a psychiatrist and say, This is what I think. And I'd like to really look at it, because I don't think this was ever looked at before. And so we, you know, she, she gave me some surveys, we looked at some things, we talked about it. This was kind of height of pandemic, time when getting in to see people was really hard, and so we went from there. So that's sort of basically how I ended up here. And as I've continued as I moved away from working with students as much and more with women, especially, and looking at what was going on with me and what was going on with the people I knew and worked with realizing how much ADHD mixes with other things, something I call ADHD plus one, where it's like these things are going together, and it makes even more that we need to deal with. But I think it also it gives us an insight into ourselves, and if we can do it with kindness, you know, and an open mind and space, we can kind of look and see okay, I understand why things happened, or why I do things or did things, and what can I maybe do to move forward? Not Not that we're fixing it or curing we're just learning better to live as ourselves.

Elizabeth Cush  07:34

Yeah, yeah. And so if people were curious or didn't know or had sort of preconceived notions about ADHD. I mean, it is a neurodivergent it is neurodivergence, right, right,

Jen Dall  07:51

your brain works divergently from neurotypical people,

Elizabeth Cush  07:56

yeah, yeah. But so what were the things that you noticed about yourself, or what you see in women that either may be different from men, or even just like, what were you noticing in yourself that really stood out for you?

Jen Dall  08:11

That what I was noticing in myself and what I noticed in a lot of women is that we we've been masking we have figured out how to do things. We figured out the games. We talked about, the big change from being in a structured system to a non structured system. So yeah, I went to school. I went to school. I taught at school my entire life. For so long, was basically bells and calendars and and this structure that also then being a teacher, there was some creativity, some flexibility, but it was this structure, yeah, and when I left, I had was not prepared at all for what that meant, losing that structure. And when I think back to it, you know, I didn't teach summer school because I had a daughter, and I was wanting to be with her, but like the first couple of weeks of summer, School of summer, rather, would be hard, because that was also the sort of mini transition, going from very structured, very routine, 100 miles per hour, to not. And I never understood that what that was, but now I see it more. And so I have been working on and learning, and then coming up with programs and helping other people look at things differently for how with now this big, huge time and these goals that are tied to me, how I can work through that and make it work for me. So lots of experiments, and some things work for a while, and then they don't work and and that's sort of the thing, I think, with ADHD, is you have to be or you should be free to try things and also know that this works today, or this doesn't work today, and we're not going to plan it for the rest of our lives, and we're not going to discard it for the rest of our lives, because things change. You know, when we talk about the other things going on, you know, I. I my husband died, and so I was dealing with grief. I last year, I was hit by a guy on a bicycle and the head, and ended up with some TBI. So like, all these things are coming in together and but that's that's life, and knowing about the base of the ADHD, and then knowing about these other things and seeing how they overlap, how they make each other worse, how they complement each other. I think this is something that we don't talk enough about, that, you know, it's a lot to take on, it's a lot to handle, and it helps to have people who understand around you.

Elizabeth Cush  10:35

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's interesting. What you were sharing like, I know some of my clients who have ADHD really do struggle with when there is a lack of structure, like a sort of open ended time, or really finding the times when they do work best, you know, where their energy is aligned with the whatever the tasks at hand. But I also see a lot of self, a lot of guilt or shame for not being able to do it the, you know, the right way, neurotypical way, or the right way, right? Yeah, yeah, right.

Jen Dall  11:22

And a lot of that is stories that have been passed down. So you know, a lot of us didn't know. We didn't just wake up with ADHD, we just kind of came to the understanding. And so all during school, all growing up, you may have been doing these things, and people didn't understand, and so you weren't doing it the right way, or you had certain characteristics, like being forgetful or not doing things and people talk may have chalked it up to, like your personality, oh, you're always forgetful, as opposed to, maybe there's a reason for it, yeah. And so I think those stories and they just, they continue, you know, and kind of confirmation bias. You keep them seeing more and more when you've done that. And that's, that's really hard to shake, yeah, I think that's, that's one of the things even going in and asking a doctor, because they may not believe you, you know, and doctors, a lot of doctors, don't know a lot about it still. And so that takes a lot of courage and time and energy and money to actually go in and say to a doctor that you trust. I want to talk about this.

Elizabeth Cush  12:30

Yeah, well, and I feel like so often, women are not necessarily one considered to be persons who struggle with ADHD, but, but I think even more than that, doctors tend to mistrust women and when they know their symptoms, but don't necessarily buy in or or take them seriously.

Jen Dall  12:55

So ADHD, and especially adhd with with grief, are other things that can be having trouble organizing thoughts, prioritizing taking care of yourself, leading to just being tired from lack of sleep, from, you know, if you think about the mental and emotional work that takes sometimes to pretend to be something else, you know, pretend not to be ADHD, and so you go to the doctor. Oh, well, you're you're depressed, I think so here, here's some magic pill, which it works for some people. I'm not, you know, discounting it, but like, if that's not really the answer, or that's only part of the answer, and we're not looking at other things, yeah, it's just, it's just another way of masking it. And here, just just take this pill, which may or may not help with any depression that may or may not actually be there. But you know, maybe if you're tired and you're overwhelmed and you're confused, maybe it's, it's other things too, right, right?

Elizabeth Cush  13:49

What's going on in the background? Or, yeah, you're managing your day, or whatever, the lack of structure or structure, yeah. So you've mentioned the word masking a couple times. And so maybe for people who don't fully understand what that means, maybe you could share a little bit about that

Jen Dall  14:06

Sure, masking is kind of the idea of covering up bridge pretending. So you know, our most recent society wise, masking has with the pandemic when we all wore masks, right? And if you you know literal masks, and if you think about it, when you encounter people either on Zoom or in real life. If you know this part of their face is covered up, you're only seeing a part of it, and so they're hidden. So much of of what you look like, what you're thinking, is expressed in your your mouth, in your face. So masking with ADHD is I'm going to pretend to be neurotypical, or what I think neurotypical is supposed to be, yeah, so sometimes it can be very situational, like we go back to the whole concept of school. Some of us know how to be students. We know how to play that game. So we know it's expected. We know to be quiet. That's why girls slip through. Because we know to be quiet. We know to turn the work in beat. Diligent. But what we're really like is is covered up. You may have a friend or somebody you know who either they are also nerdy version, or they are just somebody that you click with, and you can be different with them and not mask with them, but otherwise, especially in in maybe unknown situations or situations or situations that seem to have sort of like consequences, like, like at work. You know, if you don't feel safe, you're showing up a certain way, yeah, and you may not feel you know, people with ADHD at times can have, like, really be able to think outside the box, have very flexible thinking. But if you're worried about your job, you're worried about your your valuation, you're worried about your money, you're worried about things like that, and you've maybe been shot down for it, you know, you sit there and you stay quiet, and so that's a masking of what's inside you that has good things that we don't let come out. Because, you know, it's been hard in the past.

Elizabeth Cush  15:59

Maybe, yeah, yeah, well, and I think a lot of highly sensitive women could relate to that, yes, sort of masking how deeply they feel, or how easily they get hurt or or how easily they become overwhelmed, right? Like that, you have to, sort of, you learn how to show up in order to not get shamed or discounted or put down for how you actually are.

Jen Dall  16:28

Yes, and emotional dysregulation can be a big part, especially for women with ADHD, you know, kind of the whole struggle with executive function is we can take things very, very hard. So something where another person says something, you know, we take it so much harder, and they don't even understand that we have or or they don't understand why we're taking it so hard, and we can't even explain because it wasn't maybe that big of a deal. But, you know, we find ourselves in the bathroom crying or just really frozen and thinking about it a lot, so that that and then being called overly sensitive, right? You're just overly sensitive, which doesn't really solve anything, whether it's ADHD or not, you know, it really isn't a fix. So, yeah, there's a, there's a lot of that with the sensitivity,

Elizabeth Cush  17:16

yeah, yeah. Well, I just feel like, how how much energy it takes, as you said, to mask and to show up a certain way, however you feel like that's supposed to be when inside, there are parts of you that are like, This isn't me. This isn't this isn't, yeah, this isn't who I truly am or I'm not, or to just feel unseen or unsafe because you can't be yourself.

Jen Dall  17:47

Yeah, and so I think one of the benefits is we are talking about it more research has been developing, you know, for a long time, it was on boys. It was by men, you know, like a lot of medical things, it looks at the male side of things, not the female side of things, but we have started reading more and learning more. I think one of the things with the pandemic, it's not that people got ADHD, it's that by slowing down, I think, and taking a lot of those systems away, and then having more information, you know, this wealth of information from all sorts of places, and the time to look at it, it kind of started to snowball, and that people started to learn more about themselves or people they knew. I also know that some women, and even men, you know, adults, kind of come to the learning or that they have ADHD or suspect that they might win their children, because there is a hereditary component to it, you know, it's not guaranteed, but there's a hereditary component. If your child's having trouble in school or a teacher or somebody has noticed something, and they go for assessment during that process, asking questions about them, it can start to, you know, check little boxes, and then you start to wonder if that's you totally, know.

Elizabeth Cush  19:01

Oh yeah, I know that. Yes, I have kids that are highly sensitive and saw a lot of myself in them as they were growing up. For sure.

Jen Dall  19:11

Yeah, yeah. We do that a lot with our kids, and we want, we want the best for them and and all of it.

Elizabeth Cush  19:17

Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, you talk about helping holistically, right? Talk about helping women who are coming to terms with ADHD, now, later in life. What are, what are some, you know, strategies, or you know, skills, what? I'm not even sure what I'm asking, but yeah, how do you help? Is what I'm asking.

Jen Dall  19:44

I think that encouraging them to get a lot of information, both in general and deep, diving into themselves, looking at what's happened in the past. So if they believe for some reason that they have ADHD, it's usually they've read something or heard something. Or taking some quiz and really looking at those areas where they scored high, if you will, the ones that really stood out, and then within those so what's impacting your day, your your relationships, your life? What were the big aha moments where, oh, now I understand why I do this, and nobody understands why I do this and how hard it is on me, and so start to look at that and and what you've done before, if anything has ever worked or what hasn't worked. When I talk about holistic, what I'm talking about is like, I'm not against medication, so let's be clear about that, but but finding other ways to solve what's or work on what's really going on. So if it's the emotional sensitivity, if it's trouble structuring your day, if it's Trouble, trouble prioritizing, because we can come up with these grand, wonderful ideas, huge projects, and I'm going to to do all of it. Like the other day, I was going to start my own podcast. And, you know, I kind of had the next 10 years, in a way, planned out, and then I had to go to sleep, really slow it down, because you just have all these great ideas, and you want to do it, and then figuring out what the first steps are. So if I'm really thinking about doing a first podcast, maybe, maybe I need to find out something about how to do it. Yes, I can talk on podcasts, and I can listen to podcasts, and I can read and write, but I'm sure there's more to it, right, right, right, and so just helping them find because we can't solve it all at once. So I really like to look at like, little, subtle things, small things. Let's find something and work on getting some success. There some things, some strategies, some ways of looking at things, maybe a couple of tools that you feel some success and feel better about yourself. And see if that can't kind of snowball a little bit, yeah, move on to something else. You know it's, it can be the little things, because otherwise we can go get, you know, ADHD for Dummies, or whatever, you know, like some big book, and we're like, we're going to do this, and I'm going to do this tomorrow, and by the end of 2025, and and ADHD believes that they can do it, but they can't. Nobody can, right, right? And so then you're more likely to give up. So, yeah, that's like, What's one thing? You know, I was working with, with one client, and she, you know, she had a lot going on. I understand people who have been hit by a lot of stuff, and it was like, let's work on just getting you to move out of the house a little bit. You're working at home. All these things are at home. Let's just see, can we just get you to walk to the end of the block? And that may sound really, really small, but that was big, and she started doing it and and so that's just started to help. It started to open up one very small thing for what she was at you are going through so much right now, honey, we just one little thing. Let's see one little weight off of your your shoulders, your head, your heart.

Elizabeth Cush  23:08

Yeah, I have thinking of conversations with clients who get easily overwhelmed and then feel so much shame around getting stuck. And so I often will say, like, Okay, if the goal is to take a walk, just try putting your shoes on and see how that feels right. You take the one step toward whatever it is, right. And if you put your shoes on and you're like, I want to go back to bed, well, you know what? You got your shoes on today, right? Yeah.

Jen Dall  23:45

So one small step. Habit stacking is also good. Habit stacking is where there's something you're already doing, so you add something else. So you know, an easy one, if, if you need to start taking some medication for anything, yeah. And you always brush your teeth at night, and then you need to get a bite, you put them by your toothbrush? Yeah. So if you want to walk more and you have to go to the store or to work or whatever, maybe you, and we all have our unofficial, official parking spots that we like, maybe like another one little farther, a little further, and that's just a little bit of a walk or, okay, I have to go to the bathroom. Maybe I'm gonna go to the one on the second floor and take the stairs. Nobody needs to know what I'm doing. I'm just getting a little bit more so little steps, stacking them onto something that you already do, mostly by habit, are some great ways to just start, start following through.

Elizabeth Cush  24:40

Yeah, I love that. I love that it's like just building in the momentum for yourself, yeah.

Jen Dall  24:47

I mean, there is that, you know, yeah, yeah. And also knowing what stops your momentum, you know, it was kind of a joke. I know about it at least. Like, you know, if you come in, taking off your shoes is like a not. Death sentence. I don't say that, but, like, I come in the house and I take off my shoes, and I'm, it's, like, sends a message directly to my brain, I am done. So if I really have anything else to do, even though I like, take the shoes off in the house, you know, like, No, you're staying on and you are going, and you are doing this and this and this, and then take the shoes off, because once the shoes are off, and then, oh, if I sit on the couch. Yeah, the day's over. We're done. So if you know something is going to stop you or slow you down, maybe say, Okay, before I do that thing. I'm not telling you not to take your shoes off and sit on the couch, but yeah, maybe before you do that, just one level thing,

Elizabeth Cush  25:38

yeah, yeah. Because what can stop you is just as big as what sort of overwhelms you, right? I mean, like, yeah, yeah, if you or, like, picking up your phone, if that's the like, oh, for so many people, that can be the thing that just side tracks them for

Jen Dall  25:58

days and then you're just gone, whether it's social media games, the endless stream of email that you don't shopping, yeah,

Elizabeth Cush  26:07

yes, yeah, yeah. So, like, almost like, I'm not gonna pick up my phone until whatever,

Jen Dall  26:14

right, right? Or if there's a co worker that distracts you, or, you know, coming home and talking to your child about their day, like, sends the night in one direction. And you really want to do some things first, even if it's sitting down and resting, like, do that for a little bit, and then go find out, you know, if there's a co worker, and I don't mean distracting in a bad way, but like you like them. You want to talk to them, but the two of you get together and you're just talking, tell yourself, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna go sit down somewhere and I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do this for 20 minutes, or at 10 o'clock, I will go talk to her and try to set in some buffers to going after those things that you know are then going to slow you down and distract you.

Elizabeth Cush  26:55

Yeah, and how? And those are all beautiful suggestions. How, as far as sort of the mental anguish that you might carry, for, you know, struggling with being ADHD, maybe not being diagnosed, but having to mask and then realizing, oh, you know, maybe this is really who I am, but also just that sense of, I'm not doing it right. Like, how do you help your clients? I don't know, move beyond that sort of story that they've been telling themselves for such a long time.

Jen Dall  27:37

So we can look at challenging it, depending on the client and the relationship in the situation, both challenging how these stories came about, but if they're particularly traumatic or hard, you know? I don't I'm not a therapist, so I don't do that and that kind of work. I would probably recommend talking to somebody who's more specifically therapy, but challenging them. You know, you say you you failed because you didn't do this. Is that true? Is that totally true some of those things, what would you tell somebody else? Maybe we can laugh about it, because we can. We can blow things up. So I, I forgot to run the dishwasher, and I'm like, oh my goodness, you know, maybe kind of trying to even laugh about it, okay, so you didn't run the dishwasher. Okay, so, so now, what you know, right? But not putting them down because they think that, you know, that's how they're feeling, but trying to back off on that, like, okay, so why didn't you, you know? Like, what are the reasons, and what can we look and and taking some of the the emotional pressure off of it, about the story, yeah, and then, you know, walking that line with therapy because, well, I have a background in school, counseling and stuff. I'm not

Elizabeth Cush  28:52

Yeah, yeah, therapists, yeah. But you understand the but I understand the trauma, yeah, can play within.

Jen Dall  28:59

We're trying to work more with, with now, taking with now, understanding before and where we're going. But what are some things now that we can do?

Elizabeth Cush  29:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, it feels like such, well, no, it just feels like rewarding work, just in terms of, like, how to to kind of see where your clients come to you, and then, you know, finding ways to help them move more easily through life with with who they are.

Jen Dall  29:36

I feel like for for people, women who who have been hit by a lot. Like I may not have been through everything you've been through, but I get, I understand having been through a lot of things, and the kind of things people can say to you that aren't helpful, and the ways they can be. And I just trying to like, I see you, and I see this is a lot. I'm telling you I'm. Acknowledging this is a lot, and you know, you're telling yourself it's not and that you should be able to do it like this, but this is a lot. So together, let's, you know, hold hands, if you will, and let's find somewhere to start. Yeah, and you know, is that the little easy, low hanging fruit, or is it kind of looking at that big thing, like, your relationship is almost over, you're going to lose your job. So like, what can we do to protect you and help you, no matter how those situations end up?

Elizabeth Cush  30:31

Yeah, yeah. Beautiful, yeah. So if there were someone listening who maybe thinks they have ADHD, not 100% sure, feeling a little whatever about it. What would you what would you want them to know?

Jen Dall  30:48

I'd want them to know that what they're thinking and feeling is completely valid, and I would encourage them to get quiet and sit with that and then do a little bit of research, whether it's books, articles, podcasts, you know, from reputable thinking people like, like we talked about before, something is triggering. This not triggering, but like, something is like ringing a little bell for you. Yeah, it's poking at you. So, so what is that? Why do you think that in the past? Can you look at that with kindness? What? What's making you think that, and how much of an impact, and what can you learn more about it? Because that's going to help too, and won't be so scary. You know, finding out what you know, having trouble regulating your emotions, like, let's just find out a little bit more about it, about it, because it's a big, a big concept. Where is it impacting you? And let's just just sit with that, yeah, yeah, and find somebody who who gets it. That's what I would say. Find somebody who gets it and gets you.

Elizabeth Cush  31:53

Yeah? Well, I think that piece of of getting curious, right, yes, doing a little exploration, opens the door in terms of, yeah, you're learning, you're getting curious. It's, it's a more open hearted exploration, I think, yeah,

Jen Dall  32:11

yeah, definitely, yeah, yeah.

Elizabeth Cush  32:15

And I, I'm, I'm, I know that there are strengths to having ADHD or being neurodivergent, what would you share as some of those positives around the neurodivergent trend?

Jen Dall  32:29

I think that we can have fantastic ideas. We can think outside the box and break free of some of the confines that you know other people may be like, this is the way. This is the road. And we can think of other ideas, other ways of doing it. If we're encouraged, we have a space. It can be like, just bouncing off, like, like, this idea leads to this idea. This leads to this idea. And then you never know where along that, as long as you're accepting of all the ideas, the best one's going to be. You know, some of them are going to be silly. Some of them will be stupid. Some of them are going to be unrealistic. But, like, I started off here, but I think this over here, I think this is actually a really good solution for whatever the problem or project or task or question might be. And I so I think just embracing that, that that openness of mind, I think, I think that's a kind thing to do,

Elizabeth Cush  33:27

very nice. So if there were listeners who wanted to find out more about you, potentially working with you, how would they find you?

Jen Dall  33:36

They can go to Instagram. I@adhd.holistically.com'm and there's there's information there. I also have my website, ADHD, holistically.com, and once you're there, you can sign up for my my newsletter, which I send out a lot of information. It has links to the podcasts I'm on, the places I'm going. You can get 30 quick hacks, and there's some information about the quick win coaching that I do, trying again to keep it small and limited, at looking for a small solution for a small thing, tackling one thing at a time, I find that works best for me as a coach and for a lot of my clients. So those are all the way and you can always go on there and then send me an email or or on a Instagram, do

Elizabeth Cush  34:19

something nice, yeah, awesome. Well, I will share all those links in the show notes. And thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Jen Dall  34:27

Jennifer, thank you for having me. Biz, this was really good. Yeah, it

Elizabeth Cush  34:31

was really good. I really enjoyed it. And, yeah, I know my listeners will

Jen Dall  34:36

too good. I'm glad and reach out to me for anything Awesome. All right, so.