Somatic Experiencing for Sensitive Women

Is your nervous system on overdrive? If you have physical symptoms that don’t seem to have an explanation, listen in on this episode of the Awaken Your Wise Woman podcast. as host Elizabeth Cush and Laurie James, a coach, author and podcaster, talk about high sensitivity, healing and somatic experiencing.

“Every nervous system is different based off of who you are, your lineage, your culture, how you were raised, the trauma that you experienced.” 
 — Laurie James

Do you ever feel like the little pink toy bunny in the commercial—you just keep going, and going and going? Life keeps coming at you, and you keep reacting. Maybe you’re racing to stay a step ahead. Then one day your body stops. Your brain says, “No more!” Maybe it hasn’t happened yet, but if you’re on that path, you can take steps to give your nervous system a much-needed break. In this episode of Awaken Your Wise Woman, host Elizabeth “Biz” Cush, LCPC, a licensed professional therapist, founder of Progression Counseling in Maryland and Delaware, and soul support for highly sensitive women, welcomes Laurie James, an author, podcaster and somatic relationship coach, for a talk about somatic experiencing. Learn about how this mind/body approach can help highly sensitive women heal from past trauma, regulate their nervous system, better manage sensory overload, and live a more balanced life.

You can fund the full show notes and resources here.

Transcript

Laurie James Interview

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Sandwich generation, caregiving, somatic experiencing, nervous system regulation, trauma healing, body-based healing, anxiety, mental health, sensory sensitivity, movement therapy, emotional control, rest and digest, sensory overload, personal growth, resilience.

SPEAKERS

Elizabeth Cush, Laurie James

Elizabeth Cush  00:01

Hi Lori, and welcome to The Awaken Your wise woman podcast.

Laurie James  00:05

 Hi biz. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to have this conversation with you. 

Elizabeth Cush  00:09

Oh, I'm excited too, very excited, and probably some of our listeners may not be familiar with who you are. So could you share a little bit about yourself,

Laurie James  00:22

 sure. Of course, I am first and foremost a mother for beautiful adult daughters. I'm also a divorcee, and I oversaw the care of my elderly parents for 14 and a half years. Both of my parents have passed, and I wrote a book titled sandwiched, a memoir of holding on and letting go that was published about four years ago, and that really chronicled my life, an eight year period of time in my life, when I was raising my four daughters, my mother fell ill, and then my marriage began to fall apart. And it's about all the things about the sandwich generation. It's about healing. It's Sorry. It's about the sandwich generation. It's about marriage. It's about family. I'm also adopted, so there's a story of that. It's about caregiving and over and all the crazy caregivers that I went through, but really it's my story of feeling alone for most of my life to finding belonging and at the Yeah. And you know, when you're in your 40s and you still don't feel like you belong, that was, you know, it took me many, many years to to find that. And who do we really belong to, but ourselves? You know, who whoever we are, the more that we can honor who we are and what our needs are, whether that's you, that you're highly sensitive, or whatever it is, that's when we feel like we can belong, because then we can ask for what we need, right? And we're not people pleasing to to get that love or trying to adapt to fit in, which is what I did a lot of growing up, and at the end of my story, or at the end of my book, I actually fell very ill. I was in the hospital twice. I was passing out. I had severe back pain. I was in the hospital four days the first time, and then two weeks later, I ended up in the hospital again. They could not figure out what was wrong with me. And two weeks prior to me falling into the hospital, not, I shouldn't say falling from from me being submitted to the hospital, I was talking to a friend and said, I'm stressed, even though everything was good in my life, and this all happened about a year and a half after I left my marriage, which was also a very difficult thing to do, sure, but the end of the day, I had taken on too much, And I had gone through a lot, my ex husband was not for he was not emotionally available for me. He did not have that capacity because of his own childhood, and so I was doing a lot of it on my own, and and the other key thing that I think may have helped me to not for my body, not to shut down, is I wasn't in therapy at the time, and I wasn't working with a coach. So looking back on that, that was my biggest, I think, one of my biggest mistakes through that time. But that the beautiful thing that came out of that is that I found a somatic practitioner, and that healing process that I went through over that next year, once I was well enough to actually get to the doctor, because that took a couple of months for me to become well enough. I that healing that happened within that first year was really profound and life changing for me. Yeah, yeah, because I had been in talk therapy for five and a half years with my ex husband, sometime on my some part of that on my own, but the body based healing, tapping into what was what I was experiencing in my body, was life changing, and because it was so profound, that's why I ended up also getting certified in somatic. Experiencing, which is a two and a half, three year training program. It's not a weekend here or there kind of thing. It's pretty intense,

Elizabeth Cush  05:08

pretty serious and intense. Now, I have some colleagues who have been through it, and yeah, I've heard lots of good things, but the intensity of the training is, yeah, really gets you working on your own stuff too, right? 

Laurie James  05:21

Yes, yes, yeah, yeah. 

Elizabeth Cush  05:23

Well, it's interesting. What you shared that, like, things felt pretty good, and that's when your body began showing symptoms, reactions, and I've heard that before. Like, I think you know, potentially, when things are not great, we're just getting through We're surviving, and we're probably disconnecting from the symptoms we might be experiencing, because  have to just get through it, right, right? 

Laurie James  05:51

Well, and from a somatic place, your nervous system is in a threat response, right? So it is in survival mode, and so it will override and shut down other things that we're feeling to get through, whatever it is that we're getting through, you know, and and so here's the really interesting thing on that point. So my divorce papers came back from the court on a Tuesday, I closed escrow on a house that I bought on Wednesday and Friday was when I landed in the hospital.

Laurie James  05:51

completely 

Elizabeth Cush  06:37

Wow, yeah, yeah, it's almost I'm feeling safe. Oh, here comes the tidal wave,

Laurie James  06:44

yep, and all of that, you know, survival, all the bracing, all the the Go, go, go, do, do, do. And after I left my marriage, I also said yes to too many things, and I overrode. So I was writing my book, I was starting to coach, I was I started to date, I I was the one that moved out so and in the top five biggest stressors we can experience is divorce, yep, and in the top five is also moving,

Elizabeth Cush  07:26

yeah, yeah, yeah, totally to that. Yes, yeah, oh my gosh. Well, and I would imagine that it I mean, having not really understood, well, I don't know that you didn't understand, but to suddenly feel like, here I am in a place that is settled for lack of a better answer, right? But now I'm in the hospital. Like, what the heck? How is that possible?

Laurie James  08:02

Yeah, well, yeah, and, and, I don't know that I necessarily had that thought in that moment, right?

Elizabeth Cush  08:11

 You're just trying to get through being in the hospital, right,

Laurie James  08:15

exactly, and to get out of the hospital, because I was also somebody who didn't take I don't take medication. I mean, I take some supplements here and there, but I feel very lucky that I don't have any health ailments. And so they were so they were chasing my symptoms, so they gave me some medication stronger than morphine, which then caused my oxygen levels to go down, which caused my blood pressure to to go down. I was also severely anemic, so they were chasing my symptoms and continuing to give me more medication. Yep. And I that first time I was like, get me out of this hospital before you kill me with all this these drugs, my body was not used to all of those drugs, sure. So that was also something else, which I don't know if I was really ready to leave the hospital, because I was still severe, in a lot of pain, and I left with a walker, and I was retaining so much water in my body, it looked like I was six months pregnant too. But But, yeah. And we know from in the somatic world, when you take on too much, your body is going to shut down. When your body, your nervous system, goes into overwhelm, it moves up into what we call the dorsal vagal and state, and your body shut down. And that's what my body did. My body said, Uncle, this is enough already. Have you not been through enough?

Elizabeth Cush  09:56

Just Are you not listening to me? Yeah, right.

Laurie James  10:00

Well, yeah,

Elizabeth Cush  10:02

well, and interestingly, he's talking about overwhelm, I know, for often highly sensitive people, but highly sensitive women experience overwhelm often if they're not taking care of their nervous systems, because we are so sensory sensitive. Yeah, that that, if we've been told you're too sensitive, you shouldn't be so bothered by this. Why, you know? Why do you feel so much? Why are you so you know, reactive, we can easily get disconnected from our own bodies, right? Yeah, and that sense of overwhelm just pushing through it, because there's this feeling of like I should be able to handle this,

Laurie James  10:53

yeah, well, and because our society and other people are telling us we should. And here's the thing, everybody is different. Every nervous system is different based off of who you are, your lineage, your culture, how you were raised, the trauma that you experienced. And so the more this is what I learned through that the more that we can truly honor who we are as individuals and not go by the guide of society or our family and what they think we should be doing or not doing, the more we can honor that then we can then show up as just our authentic selves, sensitive, loving, empathetic, yes, and, and just show up as who we are, and, and also, when we can do that, I feel like that's when we can Give our gifts to the world.

Elizabeth Cush  12:01

Oh my gosh, so much. Yes, because if we're Yeah, showing up, authentic, authentically, and taking care of ourselves in the process. Yeah, we have so much to give, right? There's so much we can show, show to the world, or, you know, offer to the world and yeah to our to our closest people, too.

Laurie James  12:23

 Yeah. And one thing I would love to add, from a nervous system standpoint, for people to your listeners to understand is, and this was really shocking to me when I learned this in my training, the newest part of our nervous system is our vagus nerve, and that is 200 million years old.

Elizabeth Cush  12:50

That's wild, yeah, I did not know, right? Yeah,

Laurie James  12:53

so and think about how fast our society in our world is changing with technology and information being thrown at us and marketing and everything, it's sensory overload.

Elizabeth Cush  13:10

Oh my gosh, that is for sure. Yes, right?

Laurie James  13:13

And it has not caught up, which I think my personal opinion is why we have such a mental part of why our mental health is at risk right now. So many people are struggling with mental health right now,

Elizabeth Cush  13:33

sure, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, right.

Laurie James  13:36

We just it. We need to give our nervous system, our bodies, our brains that break those pauses throughout the day, so that way we can regulate our nervous system and have it come up into activation and down into rest and digest and up into activation. That's how our nervous system is meant to function. Absolutely not, go, go, go, do, do, do, do, and then collapse at the end of the day, 

Elizabeth Cush  14:06

yeah, 

Laurie James  14:08

which I still find myself guilty of some days, right?

Elizabeth Cush  14:10

Oh, I'm there with you. For sure, I'm better at it today than I have been in my life. But yes, there are times where it just feels like the switch is on, and I'm like the little Energizer Bunny just going, going, going.

Laurie James  14:28

And that can get addicting too. Oh, you know the adrenaline of that we can get addicted to. I know I did for years,

Elizabeth Cush  14:38

well and societally, it's kind of what we're fed, that that's that should be how we operate. I mean, especially, I think both for men and women, really, you know that we should always be doing and and checking off our to do lists and, you know, just putting. Reducing all the time. Yeah, so I feel as if with social media and which I think there's some beautiful things in terms of awareness around mental health and body based wellness and all of that, I think there's some goodness that there's more. Common knowledge around it. But I also think that sort of in my world anyway, the words like somatic practices have also almost become just a thing. People say, I don't fully, fully understand what that means. So I'm wondering if you could kind of share, yeah, what is, what is the you know, how do you help your clients? But also, what is somatic experience? What are we doing when we're doing

Laurie James  15:52

Yeah, thank you so much. Because thank you for bringing up that question. Because I feel the same way. And after going through the extensive training I've gone to, it's like, okay, that you're just putting that word in there, like you're just adding it because it's a buzzword right now. So simply defined somatic is derived from the Greek word Soma, Soma meeting body. So somatic experiencing is something that Peter Levine created. He's a PhD. He's in his 80s, and he has been studying this for 5060, years. He's so incredible. And so basically it is body experiencing, experiencing what is happening in our body, because 80% of our sensory information travels from our body up to our brain. Only 20% travels from our brain down to our body, so the more that we can really connect with our body is when we can become more attuned to what our needs are, and so that way we can function better in the world so and in my view, there's two pieces to that one piece is what we were just talking about, is daily nervous system regulation, taking pauses throughout the day, checking in with our bodies. Sensations are the language of the nervous system, so the more we can connect with the sensations and allow them to complete that fight, flight or freeze response that we are in in the moment, then we can come down into our parasympathetic, rest and digest and move throughout the day, up and down, up and down, kind of like a roller coaster. You're coming up and down, up into activation, down. You know. You wake up in the morning, you have your coffee, you walk your dog, you go work out, maybe you come down, and just take five minutes to sit in the chair and rest and connect with your body. Doesn't have to be long. And then you go in the shower. You go to work, you know. And then at lunch, you take a little rest, you know, and you're not eating while working, which, again, I'm sometimes guilty of. On certain days, you stop and you walk your dog, you smell the roses, you stop to take in your five senses on your walk. It's some of these very simple thing. So that's one piece, is the nervous daily nervous system regulation. And then when you are working with a somatic practitioner, somebody trained in a body based healing modality, they can go deeper to maybe heal some of the trauma that might still be stuck in your body. So I was adopted at birth, so I have birth trauma, sure, I unfortunately endured physical, emotional and sexual abuse from one of my adopted brothers, so I really had to work through that, and I didn't even know I needed to work through that until my 40s, sure, and then, because of some of that trauma that I experienced in childhood, I entered into a marriage that was also unhealthy, very controlling, very manipulative, and I understand he had his own trauma that was showing up. And so there was a lot of again, control, manipulation, emotional control. And so I had to work through that as. As well, sure, and my tendencies, from an attachment standpoint, are very anxious. So leaving a relationship is not, was not easy at that time, right?

Elizabeth Cush  20:11

Because, my gosh, right, that's felt like the end of the world.

Laurie James  20:15

Probably yes, like I literally thought I was going to die if I didn't attach, right? So, yeah, so what happens in the somatic like? So we can, as a somatic practitioner, then go in and touch, you know, we just start very slowly and touch in and help people process in tall, small, tolerable ways to heal some of that deeper past trauma that may be still dictating and controlling your choices in the present. Because our nervous system doesn't always know past from present. It just knows this feels familiar. This feels similar to something I experienced in the past so and this is how I survived and was able to receive love and to make sure that I was still fed and I had a roof over my head, and exactly. But you know, we have to bring awareness to those adaptations don't necessarily work well in our adult relationships,

Elizabeth Cush  21:23

right, right, right, oh my gosh, yeah, you are you are speaking my language? Yeah, yeah, I so there's a lot there. There is a lot there. But I guess what I just wanted to affirm for the listeners is that that there is so much wisdom in our bodies, yeah, and that with the often it takes sort of assistance from Someone who is trained to do the work gently, slowly, yeah, you know, moderating it in a way that your nervous system can tolerate it. 

Laurie James  22:13

And,  and somebody who is trained to watch for what's happening in the body, right? So they know when somebody might be getting overwhelmed, and can bring them out safely from what they might be experiencing internally. That's a really, a real key, too.

Elizabeth Cush  22:37

Yeah, yeah. That feels really important, yeah? Because often, I'm sure you're trained to see some of the the physical or, yeah, the sensations that are happening through whatever their bodies are showing you,

Laurie James  22:53

yeah, yeah. And when the body is then coming into more of a rest and digest state too, you know, that's softening of the shoulders, a natural breath, a softening of the belly, maybe a relaxing of the jaw, you know, or somebody, I don't know if, if this is just all audio or or video, but I'm holding my shoulders up to my ears, like You know, a lot of people you see walking around with their shoulders up by their ears, you know, because they hold all that tension. I mean, that's how we hold our trauma, and we're bracing, yeah, we're bracing for the next thing to happen,

Elizabeth Cush  23:36

for sure. Well, it's interesting. I i haven't worked with a somatic experiencing practitioner or therapist, but for part of my healing work at was working with a movement therapist who we did authentic movement, which is basically trusting your body to move in the ways that it wants to, while being witnessed by, you know, doing it in a group, but being witnessed by the practitioner. Yeah, and, I mean, I couldn't tell you what got released, but I know, I mean, I used to always have lower back issues, always like that. I just knew if I wasn't careful, something would twinge it and I would be miserable, right? And I was able to, I rarely not would get that sensation anymore, right? It's like things were released that I couldn't even name, but I knew that it was happening. 

Laurie James  24:49

I mean, feel it, yeah, movement is also a big part of somatic work as well. Anytime. Time that we can move. I mean, even if it's simply walking, dancing, any you that moves the energy and helps to complete, especially if you had, if you're in a flight response or a freeze response, yes, when, when you get stuck in a flight, response off, you know? And let's just give an example of I was trying to get away and I couldn't. Mm, hmm, right? Your body can get stuck that, that energy stays stuck so moving, whether it's dance or walking or even running in place, inhibits the response that didn't get completed back then, and you can complete it in the present moment. So that's how movement an example of how movement really can work so beautifully in in the somatic healing process, yeah, and then, and then stopping and noticing what were the sensations prior to doing this movement, and then noticing the sensations in my body after,

Elizabeth Cush  26:18

 yeah, yeah. I was just thinking for women in particular. So many women have experienced some form of sexual trauma in their lives like that. That to be able to, as you said, sort of complete the yeah physical response to just almost reclaim owner, ownership of our body, yeah, yeah,

Laurie James  26:48

completely reclaim that agency. And that's something that it's funny that you say that because I was, I've been divorced for six and a half years. I left my marriage eight years ago, and I was in a relationship for about three and a half years that ended at the beginning in March of 2025 okay, and so some of my lack, my loneliness, my lack of belonging was resurfacing, and some of my abandonment issues, and so I was working with my somatic practitioner as some of these things were emerging over this past year, and one of the things that we worked on was we went back into my abuse, right? And there, and we were, we were working with movement, we were working with voice, because I was silenced, sure, so both of those things. And, you know, I was pushing against her and like re, you know, there's so much energy that that that we hold in our legs, and really, you know, pushing off and and pushing into the ground and running in place and being able to get away. Because I did, I felt so trapped in that situation. And so many women do feel trapped when they're in that situation. So to to be able to to show the body that and to complete that response in the present. And that's the beautiful thing is, you don't have to talk about it. You don't have to relive it. Yes, right? You just have to complete what didn't get completed.

Elizabeth Cush  28:40

Yeah, back then, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's beautiful. I know I've seen, I think I took a training early on. I went back to school in my 50s and became a therapist. I was licensed, and when I was 53 but I can remember, you know, doing a lot of virtual trainings because I was working in a job where there I'd only see a couple clients in my internship, but I had a lot of time and watching a video of Peter Levine back in the day, working with a soldier who I think had been In an explosion, and just just watching him help this guy move through the completion of, you know, and it was, yeah, I'm getting chills as you're telling me. It was amazing. It was amazing. Yes, 

Laurie James  29:33

was this the guy that he had a nervousness to him, and almost like a

Elizabeth Cush  29:39

it could be, yeah, that there was, like, it was a long time ago that I watched it, but yeah, yeah, yes, I think that's right, yeah. So that that he was having him move his arm, and it had to do with almost like deafness or sound in his head too, I think, anyway, yeah, yeah. He.

Laurie James  30:00

Peter Levine, I mean, watching you can you anybody who's listening? You can watch his videos on YouTube? Yeah, they're incredible to to watch. And, I mean, and it's just ever so subtle, like, but he is like a hawk, like, watching every single little thing. He's amazing. He's truly amazing.

Elizabeth Cush  30:21

So if yes, I would agree, I would agree. But if, if listeners were like, Okay, you're talking about all this body stuff and somatics, like, what does it really mean? Are there simple practices that you could share that someone maybe who is feeling some Distress might be able to experience themselves, you know, 

Laurie James  30:45

yeah, yeah. One of the, one of the very, the simple that anybody can do, you and I can do it right now. In fact, we call it a stabilization or grounding exercise, yeah, and that is just simply, anybody can do it in their office or in their home, and it just helps to stabilize the nervous system and let it know that it's in the present moment and not in the past or in the future. And that's just taking a minute. And just notice where the back of your legs are touching the back of your chair or the bottom of your chair. Notice where your feet are touching the floor if you're leaning up against something. Notice where the back of the chair or couch is supporting your body right now and then. Just take a minute and turn inward and just see if you can notice any sensations in your body. I often have a lot of tingling in my body, but even just doing that very simple exercise, I notice a heaviness down in my pelvis area, and that's a really wonderful way just simply ground if you can't get in touch with the sensations. Because sometimes, if we've had if we get too overwhelmed, or if we've had some trauma, we can disassociate from our body. And so what I would suggest is do those things, but then just take a minute. This is also another one to just allow yourself to come back to the present. Is just orient to your space, yes, and just look around the room and just allowing your eyes to land on anything that's pleasant. I have a beautiful orchid on my desk that's full of color, and when I just stop it, I'm again, see the yellows. I can see the purple, the white, and again, I can just feel a drop in my body. I have a beautiful picture of one of my daughters and her fiance that always brings me joy on my desk. You know, those things can allow our bodies to bring us back into the present and signal to our nervous system that even though everything else that's going on in the world in this moment, I am here and I'm present and I'm safe, yes, right? Yeah. And the orienting one I often do in the morning when I wake up, because when you wake up, I mean, your eyes have been closed all night. And just, I just take like, two minutes and just orient around my room, yeah. And then the other one I will offer is what we call pendulation. So if in the when we were doing the stabilization, if you did notice maybe a tightness somewhere, whether it's your chest or your shoulders or maybe a part of your body that was a warmer, just notice that for a minute or two, and then and track it, and just kind of track the sensations in your body, and then see if you can move to a place that is the opposite or neutral. So if it's restriction, maybe it's a place in your body that's softer, or if it's warm, go to a place where it's cooler. Often those are more of our extremities, our hands, our feet, so and then you just pendulate back and forth. Notice the restriction, the tightness, move to something softer, and notice the warmth move to something cooler. And if you spend a minute or two in each of those places and do maybe about three or four rounds of that, your nervous system will regulate, and 99.9% of the time that restrict. Action the tense, it will soften again, signaling to your nervous system it doesn't need to be in whatever threat response it's in in this moment.

Elizabeth Cush  35:11

Yeah, yeah. But what I love about all both you know, all of the things you've just shared, is that in many ways, we're really giving our body permission to be where it is and noticing that, yeah, while also, I mean, while being present with it, right?

Laurie James  35:35

Yeah, yeah, and just witnessing, observing it, ideally, without any judgment, exactly just and yes, right and right curiosity. Can you just be curious about what you're experiencing in this moment? Because that, when we can do that, that is showing, not telling our nervous system that we are safe because you can tell your nervous system. You can tell yourself to not be anxious, you can tell yourself to not be sensitive, but until you show your body, not tell it, that's when the real relief we can we we can experience the real relief and the presence,

Elizabeth Cush  36:24

yeah, yeah. I was just thinking how often I've talked with clients where they're like, Yeah, I say these affirmations every day. I'm not going to be anxious. And I was like,

Laurie James  36:35

How about, how's that working?

Elizabeth Cush  36:39

How about I'm working on being less anxious, right? 

Laurie James  36:46

or I'm noticing, yes, yes, I'm noticing that I'm not as anxious today as I was a month ago, a week ago exactly. And on that topic, I lived most of my life with a low level and sometimes heightened level of anxiety, and didn't even know it until I did this work and experienced what not feeling anxious actually feels like. It's like, oh my god. This is how people that haven't had trauma, and, you know, don't have anxiety, must feel on a day to day basis, like,

Elizabeth Cush  37:27

wow, I know. I know. Oh, gosh. Well, yes, I also have had childhood trauma, so I Yeah, also lived in a household where feelings weren't talked about. So yeah, but

Elizabeth Cush  37:47

yeah, I

Elizabeth Cush  37:50

I think one of the things that has really bloomed, I guess for me, is the recognition, as you said, the anxiety, but also that state of fear, of what I don't know, but just I was walking around scared and anxious, yeah, all the time, yeah.

Laurie James  38:11

And we don't have and the beautiful thing is, we don't have to live that way. Do even we

Elizabeth Cush  38:16

don't it's a much calmer and lovelier place to be when, yeah, when

Elizabeth Cush  38:23

we do the work, 

Laurie James  38:24

right? So true.

Elizabeth Cush  38:26

Yeah. This was such a beautiful conversation. I've enjoyed it so so much

Laurie James  38:33

I did too. Thank you so much for having me on. Yeah, thank you.

Elizabeth Cush  38:37

And so if listeners wanted to know more about your book, more more about you. How would they find you?

Laurie James  38:44

Yeah, thank you for asking so they can find me on my website, Lori E, james.com that's L A, u, r, i e, with 2e for my middle initial, Elizabeth, james.com I'm also on Instagram, and which is Lori dot James. And then I also have a podcast as well that talks about all things midlife, but with a somatic lens. It's called Confessions of a free bird, because I went from being sandwiched in my book to now becoming a free bird.

Elizabeth Cush  39:19

Nice, nice. I love that. All right. Well, I hope the listeners will find you and follow your podcast. And yeah, check you out on on all your platforms.

Laurie James  39:29

Yeah, thank you so much for having me and and if not, I hope your listeners at least took away one little nugget that will help them on their healing journey. So yeah, but yeah, would also love to hear from anybody Awesome. Thank you. Laurie, thank you. Bye.