Unsolicited Business Advice
Let's be real.
You may feel like your business owns you. You may feel uncomfortable that business has become stuffy, so you either dress up or don't show up. You are possibly on the roller coaster of wearing all the hats and wondering if it's time to close your doors.
Unsolicited Business Advice
#22: "What Are Your Thoughts on Regret-Based Decision Making?"
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Callie brought an incredible prompt from an incredible Substack post her dad sent her. Eric Ingram wrote a piece called "Regret-Based Decision Making: Designing a Life You Can Live With."
A little excerpt, “Over the last few years, especially as I’ve gotten into my mid-thirties, I’ve started changing the variables I use to make decisions. Or more accurately, I’ve changed the weights of those variables….I call the framework regret-based decision making. It’s simple in concept. When faced with a meaningful choice, I try to project myself forward and ask: which option is least likely to haunt me?”
Like most topics, you can go many different ways in how this feels to you. Some may have a huge ah-ha moment, some may get their feathers ruffled because they don’t feel they can operate from this theory.
What about you? How does this land?
Key Takeaways:
- Are we living into the societal way of buying the house, working until retirement, and then retiring?
- Do we feel there are more options than the ones we have right in front of us?
- As a business owner, is there something you want to do, but are scared to?
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This is the Unsolicited Business Advice Podcast. We're Amanda and Callie, founders, moms, and friends who believe your heart is valid and your way is good enough.
SPEAKER_01Around here, we skip the buttoned-up LinkedIn talk and dive straight into real conversations about growing a startup, balancing motherhood, and rejecting the hustle culture. Consider this your weekly reminder that business can actually feel joyful again. All right, welcome back, episode 22. 22.
SPEAKER_03And if you listened to number to to to number 20, we talked about having cupcakes.
SPEAKER_01Oh, Amanda brought me cupcakes today. Tree bark cupcakes. So I'll let you know how good those are once I try them.
SPEAKER_03And I will they were from Valentine's Day. I stuck them in the freezer, so they will not be the normal, but just try them.
unknownOh, good God.
SPEAKER_01She's rubbing off on me, people. I went to the grocery store the other day to get Doritos and I walked out with nut fens, which is not the same at all.
SPEAKER_03So it sounds like you were just wanting something crunchy. And salty. And salty. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Which is me most of the time, all the time. Yeah. So anyway. This podcast is about groceries. Today I'm going to ask the question. But I have to preface this by saying I got an email. My dad sent me an email from a company, from a guy that he used to work for. His the guy he used to work for his name is Eric. And I wanted to give Eric kudos for this. But um I don't know the company. I don't remember what the company was, which is terrible. But anywho.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you can go. Well, we yeah, just make sure that we'll go back and look at the company. So then we can link his sub stack in the show notes.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, because I do think he has a podcast. That sounded like it. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, I thought it was pretty cool. Um, and I am going to read a piece of the email that I thought was um was a really good thought with Amanda, and she's gonna give me her thoughts on that.
SPEAKER_03Oh, okay. Yeah, okay. That's what we're gonna do. Thanks.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so um, the email that I received had quite a compelling little question here. Well, not question, thought process. And I was like, ooh, that is not only business oriented, that is like human-oriented, which seems like we do this human-based stuff more than anything else. So here is the questionslash story. Okay, you ready? Yeah, I'm ready. Over the last few years, especially as I've gotten older into my mid-30s, I've started changing the variables I use to make decisions of, or more accurately, I've changed the weights of those variables. When I was younger, decisions were driven by positioning, school, career trajectory, financial upside, clout, tangible assets, the things that look impressive from the outside and feel measurable on paper. I still care about those things. I'm not pretending I've transcended money or responsibility, but I've lowered their weight and I've increased the weight of something else, future regret. I call the framework regret-based decision making. It's a simple concept. When faced with a meaningful choice, I try to protect project myself forward and ask which option is least likely to haunt me. Not what makes me look the smartest, not what maximizes short-term gain, not what other people will approve of, but what decision will allow me, years from now, to look back without that familiar sting of I should have done that differently. Which I mean, he writes really well. And I love the fact that he was so vul vulnerable with the um uh, you know, I used to choose things based on how it looked basically. Um, so that was great. But my thought from all of that was how often do we do that in our family lives, and how often do we do that in our businesses? And sometimes it costs us a lot of stuff, not only money, standing, like financial standing, but also like societal standing, how it's looking to other people and and how much do we regret putting ourselves in that position. I know you've probably seen people in your work and you've been friends with people and you've had conversations with people where this has been an issue.
SPEAKER_03Where they've been doing things to where they appease the outside world.
SPEAKER_01Where they come to you and they're in conversation with you and they're like, God, I did this and I really regret it, and I shouldn't have, you know, I shouldn't have made that business decision and how do I come back from it and that sort of thing. So my question is, how often do you see that? And what are your thoughts on regret-based decision making?
SPEAKER_03Well, as you the first question, how many people have I said like I regret doing that? Unless I'm just blocking them out, I don't feel like I get as many people being regretful. I get more people that are wanting to do more purpose-driven things and are afraid of what other people think.
SPEAKER_01So the regret for them is they didn't do it. They haven't. They haven't done it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's like I'm doing this because I feel guilty or because I don't feel worthy, or what are other people gonna think, or like who am I? I think that's more of the client that I get. Yeah. I do there's somebody else that I know that is in a position of his company, and I hear a lot about the other people in the position of that company. Now that one I hear a lot of. And I think maybe meaning what? Meaning maybe meaning like I made a bunch of money and I spent every single bit of it. Oh. Or I made a bunch of money and because I never had money, I spent it all. And now I don't have any.
SPEAKER_01Which is 90% of the American economy as well.
SPEAKER_03And American society. Which that goes to show the financial education of this world. Yeah. Um, yeah, and I saw that in real estate. When I first started in real estate, I'll get back to your question. Yeah, no worries. My like mentor said, whatever you do, put 20% back every single paycheck that you get. Because like you're$10.99. You're like, you have to be responsible for your taxes later. And he's like, the amount of realtors, this is broadly speaking, this isn't like a certain like brokerage, that they spend the money before they even get the commission check. Yikes. And so, but I would say back to my clients, yeah, it's usually I really want to do this, but I feel bad because I don't want to let them down if I stop doing this service. Yeah. And it's funny, I just did a reel on like, are we allowing our businesses to evolve as we evolve as people? Um I feel like that was in there. Um, for sure. But yeah, and then how what do I think of three like how would how does that feel?
SPEAKER_01Like you try that on in your own life. How does that feel?
SPEAKER_03The regret-based decision making. Yeah. I think that's how I started quick launch program was the regret part regret, part I didn't want somebody else to take it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And so, like, if I don't act on it, somebody else is going to, and how would I feel about that? While two people could do the same exact thing and both could be successful, I'm well aware. But in my mind, in the town that we live in, if another organization launched something like Quick Launch Program, then I would be real mad. So I finally was like, screw it, let's do it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um You didn't, you make you made a decision based on what you would regret if you didn't. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because I would regret. I think I would have regretted, I don't know if actually I'm saying this. I don't know if regret. I think I would have been frustrated at myself because I would I I would have known that I thought about it and thought about it and thought about it and thought about it and didn't just take action because I didn't think it was possible or I didn't think it was ready or whatever.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I think that's where I would have been. I don't know if I I don't know if it was more of like I'm gonna be bummed if I don't bring this out into the world. I was like that with the hatchery. Yeah. But I think regret-based decision making is extremely powerful.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Like really powerful. And it like the first thing that comes to mind is do people not think are they scared to think that way because maybe it's out of left field and people will judge them and worry about what they're doing when we all know nobody really at the end of the day cares. Yeah. And that it's sad because we worry about that so much. And it's funny because Sean and I we just had a sound healing session together with our sound healer. It was really cool. It's two hours, a lot of tears. But like one of my things of like a rule for myself is like, I'm gonna do whatever the F I want to, and know that it's okay that it doesn't look like how other people do things. Yeah. And there is some kind of fear around that for so many people that keeps us from having that thought process of like the um regret, I'm trying to remember it. Regret decision based on regret-based decision making. I don't have my notebook. Um weirdo. I know. Um I think it's super powerful. And if like we all just like put our middle finger in the air, it's like I'm doing it, we'll see. I think everybody would be so much happier. Yeah, and that's where And hold on a second. Can I preface that he in there says some people cannot make decisions from that because of financial responsibility or something else? So I do want to preface that, that not everybody can just be like, well, let's just try it out and see because of those reasons. So he does preface that in there. So because I feel like some people are gonna be like, I can't do that, which I could challenge of just getting curious of why. But some people, like for sure, have responsibilities that right now they're maybe in like survival mode.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. Which I think this is a side component to that, but I think and I feel like I can speak to this because so much of Brad and I's life has been in survival mode. So I mean, I'm in this group, so I can speak to this. But I think the question to that comes where it's like, I hear you what you're saying, that you can't do this, but you saying you can't do this based on a financial obligation or responsibility doesn't just end the conversation. Like what you're not seeing is there are more options. It might mean you sell your house and you get something smaller, it might mean you sell your car, it might mean you know, you don't have whatever, whatever it is. It means it might mean you get an apartment instead of owning a home or whatever.
SPEAKER_03Which that's all ego driven because to my yeah. I remember when I sold we sold one of our cars because from Nirium we had the car allowance. Oh, yeah. And like I wasn't performing to get the car allowance. And I was like, what do we like? Let's sell this and trade it in and get something where the payment is smaller. And he's like, What? Like, what are people gonna say? Yeah. And I was like, I don't care. He goes, Well, what if they ask? I'm like, I'm gonna say, I got a bonus through the company and now I don't, and I don't want to pay it. Like, yeah, that to me is like there is no embarrassment there, anyways. I'm like, Annette, like, they're not making our car payment. Yeah. So why do I care? You I mean, sure. And say, right, we just didn't like it anymore. She's right, whatever. Yeah. But it's interesting because that comes to mind to be like, it's all ego driven, a lot of times unconsciously. So it's not like for some people not, it's very conscious thing. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, like, yeah, you could sell your house and move it into an apartment, and you have to just not like it's nobody else's business, anyways. Yeah. But we live in a world where we think we have to perform and show.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for sure. I mean, I I hate to say this right after you say that because I don't want to say I don't want this to come off as a judgment um at all. But I had a guy in the coffee shop the other day that was talking about he's very high up in his job. And by the way, the people who come into the coffee shop the most and get counseling, and it happens daily, are 40-ish year old men. It's interesting because it's like they have a lot to unload, but apparently they're not probably going to therapy. That's probably it. And they just need to say it. Yeah. But they can't just say it to anybody because if they do, then they could hurt people and all the things. This is my psychology. I'm thinking this is why this happens. But anyway, they have a lot of crap to unload and sometimes they just say it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you know. Well, think about it. Like, men are most of the time like raised to be like, You're strong, you're fine. You suck it up.
SPEAKER_01You're fine. Right.
SPEAKER_03And it's like, but no, like I really do have a lot of things to say here.
SPEAKER_01Well, they buy a six dollar coffee and spill their guts. Yeah. So it's a little bit of therapy, I guess.
SPEAKER_03Yes. And like, I hope that you see the power in that for you. That like they feel one, they enjoy your coffee. Two, they appreciate you and see value and safety.
SPEAKER_01I hope so. I hope they feel safe in that. Cause yeah, I mean, that's what I'm I'm absolutely there for that. Yeah. But he came in and he said he made some comment about hating his job. And and I knew, because I know him, I knew he's like at the highest level of his industry. And um, I was like, You hate your job? And he's like, Oh yeah, it sucks. I hate it. I should have never gotten into this. Like, I've been doing it for 30, almost 30 years, and I should have, I it sucks. And I was like, dude, what? You've lived the past 30 years of your life in this kind of misery. And he's like, Yep, it's almost about over. I almost, I'm almost ready to retire. And I'm like, my my mind, like, I just my heart broke. Yeah. And then my mind went nuts because I was like, Well, I asked him, I said, What did you want to do? And he was like, What do you mean? I was like, Wow.
SPEAKER_03He's probably never been asked that question. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And he was like, Well, when I was a kid, uh, I don't know, eight or nine, probably or so, I wanted to be a farmer. And I was like, Okay, what happened to that dream? And he goes, Well, there's no money in it. And I was like, Okay. Um, I don't understand. Yeah. I said, So is that the last time that you remember in your life that that was what you wanted to do? Like, is that the last thing you remember wanting to do? Yeah. He said, Yeah. I said, So you're telling me that the past 50 years you haven't had the thought, man, I it would be amazing to be a XYZ fill in the blank. And he's like, Well, I just I don't know. I just don't think about it. It's not gonna happen, so why would I? And I'm like, ouch, you know? Yeah. And then my mind went to, and he left and whatever. But then my mind went to, God, if this is 80% of the world, which I don't know, gut feeling is that it probably is, that's a whole lot of anger and resentment and balled up frustration that people are just living with. Yeah. So why wouldn't we be a bunch of jerks? Yeah. Like why wouldn't that happen? Yeah. And to me, that would be the biggest regret to live an entire lifetime and not do something you actually wanted to do. Yeah. And and career is not everything. For sure. But man, if you spend 40 hours a week doing anything, it's a huge part of your life. Right. And it's a huge part of your family's life. It's just a whole bunch in my head and my heart, it's a whole bunch of wasted hours for what? Yeah. Money. Well, whoop de crap. You can get money from anywhere, you know? Like, yeah. Brad also told me one time, this is probably going way over, but Brad also read a book, and I can't remember who wrote the book, but it stuck with him, and he's repeated this several times to lots of people, so I've heard it a bunch. But um, you know how you make a resume for a job? They had the idea of a life resume. Like, I don't really care what my job resume says, but what does my life resume say? Yeah. And when you really think about that, it's like, yeah, when you get to the end of your life, what do you want your life resume to say? Like that what's the dash between like what's the dash? What does the dash mean? And what is it filled with? Kind of thing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And I think Sean and I've had this conversation lately because like we've worked very hard, we've done things, and I'm like, I think we get on this hamster wheel of everyday living life and getting into this routine. And on Mondays it's horseback riding, and on Tuesdays, it's Grammys, and on Wednesday it's my dad's, and on Thursday it's horseback riding, and on Friday, you know, Sean's, we're all home together, and on Saturday it's CrossFit. Like, we've gotten into this rhythm and this like habit of what we do. And I'm like, but I don't feel like we have any vision. It's it's like, and he's like, he gets a little bit frustrated. I know he listens, so I love you, Sean. But I was like, I like we love to travel and we do love to do things, but it's usually like when I get cagey, because I'm home most of the time, and like he's like, okay, we better book a trip because Amanda needs to get out of here. What if we like did that ahead of time to be like, hey, like what concerts do we want to go see? Who does Ellie want to go see? And like, how can we wrap that into like a family vacation or and plan it? So then one, it's probably gonna be cheaper because we're planning it in advance, where like I'm able to look forward to things rather than like get in my cagey self. But like, what are the things that we enjoy? And if that's the that's why we've worked so hard and like lived below our means for a really long time, why are like we get so caught up in just the mundane of everything instead of the excitement of things and how we do them? Because I I come about things a different way when there's like a prize at the end.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And so I think it's I don't that's why you're an entrepreneur.
SPEAKER_01That's right, yeah. Uh it yeah, it's because uh there's a social expectation that we all live up to. This is what you do. You have a family, you go to work, you put in your years, you retire, then you start traveling. And and I I understand that there are lots of different uh lives that that look lots of different ways, but the same basic premise is you do it this way. You get a, you know, you have a house and you have a job and you have, I mean, even if it's a job shovel and sidewalk, it's still a job, like you're working in these middle years of your life and and you're doing that with a means to an end. But at some point it's like it's so easy to get caught up in life in general and get to a point where it's like, oh crap, it's been 40 years. Like, what yeah, what have I done? What what am I doing now? Like, and then you get all frantic because it's like, uh, this isn't what I where I thought I'd end up. This isn't, I haven't done this, I haven't done this.
SPEAKER_03And so And you're meeting yourself up about it and judging yourself rather than being like, I've got time, which is not helpful in the image-worthy society that we are in. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But like I think that life resume idea, because of the idea of regret-based decision making, I think a life resume should be talked about when you're five. What do you really want to do? Like, what do you want to see or be or have or experience or feel or eat or you know, anything? What do you, when you're on your deathbed, like what is it that you want to say, hey, I've done that. Where I understand that, or I know where that came from, or like what does your life resume say? Yeah. And so that's where I went with the regret data-based decision making. Well, and being comfortable looking like the different one or the weird one, or well, that would yeah, that's absolutely true because you definitely would be. For sure.
SPEAKER_03Which stinks because then like you're gonna some a lot of times like you feel isolated, you feel judged. For sure. All because most of the time they're mirroring the fact that. That they either don't have the gumption to make those decisions or to live without the big house or whatever in like fancy car, whatever XYZ. So because of that, they're then gonna push that on you. And we're not really taught how to handle that. No. Like that's I'm 40 and I just have learned that like the last seven years. Yeah. And to like at what point, yeah, are we living and being okay with because it's a choice. Absolutely. And I'm saying this like to myself, like, at what point do we decide, like, wait, I don't have to do what everybody else is doing. Yes. We've heard in the last couple of years, like two people they're like, man, we've had we've got the big house, and it's it's cool to be able to do it, and we're that's not necessarily what they wanted. Yeah. Because they're like, it's so much upkeep. We don't use half the house. Yeah. It was cool to be able to do it, but now we're like, we like to spend our time in XYZ, so we're just gonna move there and we're gonna move into like a condo because that's all we need.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And like, but they everybody's like, What? Yeah. But then I think once that starts to trickle out, it does raise the question of like, wait, why are why am I why am I doing this? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And that's what there's a little bit, because it's can definitely be material things and houses and stuff. But even things you say or exactly like Eric in his email that we read from, he even says, he alludes to, or it kind of feels like he means, you know, he wrote it seems like he's written some things and seems like he's done a podcast or two, or you know, it seemed like in the email he was saying, like, I have no really reason to do this except for the fact that I want to do it. Yeah. So, and that's and so he's doing it. And so that's just like, I don't know, I feel like that is not groundbreaking information, but a great reminder. It yeah, and it really is different. It really is different than what most people are doing. Yeah. They're not doing things just to do them because they want to say that they've done them, right? They're doing things because they've gotten tunnel vision and they don't even know they have tunnel vision and they're just doing what they're seeing. Yeah. You know?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, because it's well that's easier.
SPEAKER_01I say they, I mean me too. Like it, and I just want to be aware of that going forward and and not regret the decisions I'm making currently.
SPEAKER_03Well, and let's like that was I think I sent this to you in a text. Like that was sent to you because that's how you and like you and Brad, it seems like from the outside are living.
SPEAKER_01I love that you said that specifically because it came from my dad, and so that made me feel like he's I hope he feels that. I really hope that that's true. Um, but it's crazy because I also hope that's true, and I'm I'm not so sure it is all the time. And so I'm trying to stay aware and cognizant and you know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I mean, I think there is a balance in it to where it's like sometimes it's like, yes, and let me like focus on this right here. And especially like with the responsibilities of not only two businesses but six kids, right? It's just like being available there and having the responsibility to raise them. Yeah. And have time for yourself and those like things that you want to take on or do. Yeah. But I think having it in the back of your mind all the time up, even just the question of like, who am I doing this for?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Like, why am I making this question? My friend Renee says, like, what's the energy behind it? Yeah. Like, are you going because you feel like you have to? Am I unloading the dishwasher right now? Because I want Sean to think that I did my household duties, or because I want it to be empty so after dinner tonight I can put dirty dishes in it. Yeah. It makes all the difference in the world. It does. Makes you feel like you actually have a choice. Yeah, for sure. In this life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Thanks for bringing that. That was good. Sorry, it was a little longer than normal people.
SPEAKER_03I don't even know what time it is. Yeah. All right, we'll see you next week.
SPEAKER_01Alrighty.
unknownBye.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for listening to the unsolicited business advice podcast. If you've got a question you want us to tackle, DM us or drop it in the comments. Your story might be in our next episode. And hey, if it resonates with you, hit follow and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Every review helps us reach more business owners who are ready to bring joy back into their work.