The High Octane Resilience Playbook: Thriving through life's ups and downs

Rob McMullan, Trevor McKee, and Jori Lichtman discussed "developing resilience in the face of change," covering personal, employment, corporate, and societal changes. Jori Lichtman introduced themselves as the first guest and shared their journey, including career transitions and parental loss, contributing to their "PhD in resilience," whether from personal or career losses, like losing a job prospect were confident about, or even in the face of societal changes, particularly the decline of community and increased fear impacting younger generations. Jori shared motivational quotes like "No means next" and "Rejection is redirection," emphasizing a belief that things happen for a reason, while they all underscored the importance of maintaining a balanced and realistic perspective, especially in the modern media landscape that often sensationalizes negative events. Highlighting the importance of focusing on the positive, despite the brain's natural inclination towards negativity, Rob mentions his personal tactic of looking at a picture of a smiling baby before important meetings to boost his mood. Other strategies include physically patting oneself on the back in recognition of a job well done, or giving “gold stars” for achieving something that can be difficult to do, and the importance of having a community of trusted friends to provide humor, encouragement and trusted advice. Finally, the use of small habits can help to build mental momentum and provide psychological benefits, enabling us to feel capable of greater things.

Listen to hear more about

• Societal Changes and Community Connection
• Reframing and Positive Outlook
• Challenges and Negative Effects of Social Media / Media Influence
• Developing Resilience through Experience
• Tactics for Positive Thinking
• The use of Music and Uplifting Stories as Motivational Tools
• Self Perception, and reframing negative thinking
• The connection between Resilience and Optimism
• The importance of Community, Actively seeking Mentors, and Volunteering
• Celebrating Small Wins, building good Habits and Momentum

The High Octane Friends podcast is where Rob McMullan & Trevor McKee discuss a variety of subjects in an authentic and unvarnished way. 

Rob McMullan LinkedIn
linkedin.com/in/robmcmullan
Trevor McKee LinkedIn
linkedin.com/in/trevordmckee
High Octane Friends website
highoctanefriends.com

Transcript

Rob McMullan: hello ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, and everyone else. there may or may not at some future point be a few aliens joining us. We certainly hope so. And you are welcome as long as you're not enemies of the earth. Incidentally, the former name.
Trevor McKee: Large large language models.
Rob McMullan: Yes. Yes. I was going to say enemies of the earth. Incidentally, the the the former name of my rock band when I was in Tokyo. You didn't know. I and and I you know I'm fighting a bit of a cold today. high octane friends, listeners.
 
 
00:18:49
 
Rob McMullan: and so maybe that just kind of puts me in particularly good rock and roll voice today, which you will see in a second will actually come into play. Shocker. anyway, so welcome back again to High Octane Friends. So glad you could join us whether you're your first or you have been repeatedly highly doubtfully listening to our podcast so far. Today we have a special guest who is Jory I'm hoping I'm going to pronounce your name right. Jory Jory Lchman or Litechman. I got it right. Awesome. and so today's topic which you know I think Jory will really will contribute is you we're going through a lot of tumult if you will a lot of change. So, how can we then develop resilience in the face of change? And here, as promised, is my reference to my like particularly good probably slash terrible rock and roll voice. So, cha changes turning face to strange changes. Anyway, I changed the lyrics a little bit, but that's what we're going to talk about.
 
 
00:20:05
 
Rob McMullan: And Jory you have an interesting background in change management. You've had your own journeys like on and so we want to talk about change in the context of you know one's personal life, career life.
Jori Lichtman: Listen.
Rob McMullan: We're going through lots of corporate change. Of course we continue to go through the digital transformation of the corporate world and our personal lives too. But now we have AI and we'll talk about all of that. But I think this this really means that a lot of us are going through at many different levels change. So here we there we are. Let's kick it off. Trevor, do you want to play our theme song? Okay. so so we'll we'll turn it over to you first, Jory. So, what what do you want to tell us about yourself and how that may relate to, like I said, how we can all develop resilience in the face of change that we're facing.
Trevor McKee: Sure. I think that's Yep, that's it.
 
 
00:21:49
 
Jori Lichtman: Wonderful. Well, first of all, Rob and Trevor, thank you for having me on High Octane Friends. It's very exciting. so yeah. So, Jory, I am living in Toronto, funny enough. Rob and I met through lunch club an online sort of match with people to get to know different people and then we happen to haven't met you yet in person but we happen to live in the same neighborhood which is funny. so I live in Toronto born and raised in Toronto. and I you know if on the topic of change and resilience I have had personal changes and professional changes that I feel you know I joke these days that I have a PhD in resilience and I'm still but apparently the powers that be up there still feel like I need to I don't know do a second PhD or something because I continue to be tested as as we all do. So not a pity party but just you know my personal changes obviously had three kids I've gone through career changes different jobs and then in 2021 my mom sadly was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer on her birthday in February and it was the same disease that took her mom when she was 60 and my mom was 73 and she passed passed away 3 months later and then my dad passed
 
 
00:23:14
 
Rob McMullan: Yeah, that's that that's a lot of change. And and I just add on, you said you have you kind of feel like you have your PhD in resilience. And I was thinking, you know, what could that acronym PhD stand for other than, you know, the common things I was like, PhD?
Jori Lichtman: away last year. So I haven't had you know an easy time in that respect but I've been surrounded by amazing family and friends and community.
Rob McMullan: Pretty hard days. I've gone through some pretty hard days.
Jori Lichtman: So which I'm very grateful for.
Rob McMullan: for the record, I'm a Harvard PhD dropout, so I don't know if even I qualify, but I understand what pretty day hard days are.
Jori Lichtman: And then on a professional front I have had my share of corporate restructuring or been impacted by my share of corporate restructuring and currently am in transition right now.
Rob McMullan: And Trevor, you as well, you also have three three kids. I only have one, so that you should get a medal just for that.
 
 
00:23:48
 
Jori Lichtman: So I'll pause there to let us kind of digest that and we can dig in further as needed.
Rob McMullan: There should be a degree in that. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Interesting. Very interesting. Okay. So, and and what about yourself, Trevor? Like, do you want to like just kind of open up with a a couple initial comments about change and
Trevor McKee: Yes. Well, one one of my friends explained it as a I mean I just recently had a job that I applied for that I didn't get that I was pretty sure you know I had a pretty good chance at and you know you can sort of I think it took me a while to sort of figure that out and figure out you know uh rationalize it in my head as you know you could think of it as like oh you know I it it means I'm no good. It means this that. But I think it really was basically that it wasn't the right fit for you know for myself and that role slash that that place.
 
 
00:25:04
 
Trevor McKee: So, I think, you know, I think it's very important to try and not kind of obsess over or overthink things as like the world is out to get you. relative to, you know, kind of that that things happen for a reason and that, you know, um you'll get through this change at change as you get through many others. And so, you know, I think I think it's definitely important to try and have a balanced outlook when you're when you're facing these large changes in your life. And and then also I think the other thing that helped me a lot was really just reconnecting connecting with friends and talking through it with friends and even talking through it with you know people that worked there that were like well things are still kind of crazy. So, you know, so I think, you know, it helped me to develop a bit more of a balanced sense of, you know, what happened, that wasn't just, kind of me stuck in my own head.
 
 
00:26:06
 
Trevor McKee: So, yeah.
Rob McMullan: Yeah. And and and one of the ways in which we do that I think successfully is is connecting with community and friends. I was at an event yesterday by this woman Matuba Nalosen who is a Japanese Canadian. She lives in Oakville which is a suburb of Toronto where I happen to grow up. And I had posed a question. So we were at an exhibition a kind of private showing at the Art Gallery of Ontario which is one of the premier art galleries certainly in North America. And so she's a wood woodblock artist, but she kind of goes beyond the traditions of Japan. And so she's very creative woman. And she's well into her 80s now. And so she certainly has a lot of perspective. But you know, if we look at things like I posed the question to her because I was a bit concerned looking at the younger generations and through through the eyes of my my son. It's like a lot of them don't have the same experiences that we had which was and it's even more so in Japan like a lot of us had more community around us and children were a little bit freer.
 
 
00:27:41
 
Rob McMullan: There was less helicopter parenting and I I said I remember walking to school when I was four years old by myself. And now like when my t my son is now 20 when he was first going to school like would that have been kindergarten or senior kindergarten at five and I was shocked and disappointed to find out that
Trevor McKee: Yeah. Yeah.
Rob McMullan: you're not allowed to let your kid walk to school even it's just around the corner and by themsel at that age. In fact it's something like 11 or 12 now unless you have an older sibling which is nuts.
Jori Lichtman: I'm sorry.
Rob McMullan: And you know and you have to do these things called playd dates. You can't just do I bet you all three of us did this when we were kids like you want to go play with your friends. You just go run down the street on your or on your bike and you knock on the door. Sometimes you just go in none of that anymore. It's the parents or often frankly speaking it's you know if you're in a wealthier neighborhood it's the nannies and they arrange all these things and yeah it's a play date.
 
 
00:28:38
 
Rob McMullan: Well that's just another word for appointment. So your kid has to make an appointment. Seriously. right? It has to make an appointment to go play. And so what does this do to society? Like these are massive changes that have been brought about I think primarily by media changes. Media is so impactful high impact you know and and often in in a delletterious way. So how do we deal with that? like you know now kids are not only like it first started I think you got cable TV in the 80s and so you know rather than the three channels that we all got then you know you had terrestrial and then you had cable and you had more and then more and more cable and then you had the internet which is infinite and now you've got information with a supercomput with your phone and people are and it's personalized and so it's drawing you in more and more and so people become afraid. my sister's exhusband used to be a homicide detective in Vancouver.
 
 
00:29:37
 
Rob McMullan: I think this is very interesting. Years ago, my mother was commenting something about her grandchildren. So, my sister and her ex-husband's three girls at the time, and there was something that came up about, you know, oh, they're playing on the front lawn. he should be worried about some kind of predator coming by and getting them. And he said, "Uh, but my K and this is coming from a homicide detective again who's seen every horrible thing you can imagine. It is it is infiniteely small the probability that they would be, you know, attacked and harmed in any way. So like just let them be kids." So, I think we've done a great disservice to our kids, not allowing them to walk to school, play outside, go with their friends, you know, and they're on their phones and all this kind of stuff. but I want to bring that back full circle like and and you know, if you look at Japan, for example, they are still the most current data, as I understand it, is that they're still the longest, what's the word?
 
 
00:30:41
 
Rob McMullan: The the people with the longest average lifespan in the world. And a lot of that they figure is about the community orientation that Japanese particularly outside of big city.
Jori Lichtman: Well, I will say I probably was am one of those parents.
Trevor McKee: Mhm.
Jori Lichtman: I'm not proud of it, but we grew up with this fear of kidnapping. you know and my mom was very overprotective and although when I think about some ways some ways not like we obviously didn't have cell phones back then and I went where I went and they just trusted that I would come back and I did and we had you know we took the Forest Hill 33 bus home whenever we needed to get back home. I can't, yeah, I can't say that I, have helped with the society, societal problems that you're describing because I, yeah, I have I have fears.
Rob McMullan: The bad the bad part of town audience forest the bad part of Toronto. Not at all.
Trevor McKee: Mhm.
Jori Lichtman: and my kids, you know, think that I'm a little bit crazy.
 
 
00:31:50
 
Jori Lichtman: I think I'm I'm really trying to get better. you'll have to have them on the podcast to ask whether or not that is working. But I'm I'm trying I'm trying.
Rob McMullan: We'll get the real truth on mom.
Jori Lichtman: but I if I don't mind, I wanted to just pick up on something that Trev when Trevor was talking about the job that you went for, it reminded me of a two things that I've heard recently. One was someone said this lovely pathy little quote, "No means next." And I just loved it.
Rob McMullan: That's a good one.
Jori Lichtman: And then rejection is redirection.
Trevor McKee: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jori Lichtman: And you know, you I think you took the words right out of my mouth. You said meant to be or something like that. and as spiritual or corny or whatever it sounds like, I do I do believe things were meant to be. Like I've, you know, had a couple corporate layoffs in the last couple years and I could it sucks, but something in the universe is it's not meant to be for me.
 
 
00:32:57
 
Trevor McKee: I love it. Yeah. Yeah.
Jori Lichtman: So, I just want to pick up on that before before we move too far from that because I love those two little quotes.
Trevor McKee: Okay. Yes.
Jori Lichtman: and they've they've stuck with me.
Trevor McKee: Right. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's that's really true. And you know, I think I think it's those are great sort of re again reframers of of of perspective. And and I think it's something that that I think we all struggle with and I wonder if if there's you know like in the modern era as we get further away from you know kind of daily spiritual practice or or or that sort of stuff that it is still important to kind of at least have some faith that you know faith I in in whatever it is in in in the world as a whole in in the fact that you know people in general are good and you know on the overall and and that there there are things will work themselves out and and it's never I think it's it's never as dire as it might seem in the present moment.
 
 
00:34:40
 
Trevor McKee: You know, I think I think and I this this particularly plays back into kind of what Rob was saying about like the, you know, especially media nowadays and like the 24-hour news and and you know, it's it's almost geared to the algorithms or the the the reporters are geared to um pumping out more sensational stuff to keep you engaged and keep you hooked. So you know I think it is good to to try and have a balanced perspective and also well and and and then have but then also have a realistic perspective you know like I think for for me you know I think the thing I can I worry about with my kids is more all this online stuff you know like just that they they will go on and find these random YouTubers and sometimes they're fine but sometimes I watch and sometimes it's difficult to to watch or to even pay attention when one of them is on because it's sort of like going here, they're everywhere. And and you you wonder sort of, you know, what this stream of of constant like information has on their ability to pay attention and and and everything else.
 
 
00:35:51
 
Trevor McKee: You know, it certainly um
Jori Lichtman: Yeah. I say often I I feel bad for this generation. like my my son who's 17. I've got my daughter's 19, my son is 17, my other son is 13, almost 14, and he he loves Stranger Things, the 17-year-old, and you know, it's set in the 80s. And he just like he often talks about like, you know, just I wish, you know, that I live, you know, just simpler times. I have an I have an idea for a Netflix show which is to which or or any of the streamers which is like to drop like create like a an 80s world and like drop you know present day kids into this world like and then challenge will be like challenge make a plan to go to a movie like Seinfeld you know every other Seinfeld episode they met at a movie they didn't have cell phones they just
Rob McMullan: But they'd be lost.
Jori Lichtman: said we're going to meet here and that's that's where we're going to So that's my that's my little idea percolating about just just simpler times and I I think it would be actually hilarious.
 
 
00:36:49
 
Trevor McKee: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Could could be a theme park, you know.
Rob McMullan: important. Well, it's interesting you say you say that because my son has often asked me that too.
Trevor McKee: Yeah.
Rob McMullan: I mean, he will I think they they are it's symptomatic of this generation Gen Z sort of almost grasping for you know something better. I think they're largely fully aware that they are immersed in this, you know, it it they're like a captive audience to Mark Zuckerberg and co.
Jori Lichtman: Yeah.
Rob McMullan: Unfortunately, it means that parents have to step up and do and do some on their own or expose them to I'd say media training for kids. It's very hard.
Trevor McKee: Okay.
Rob McMullan: Like I have I've been aware of this since my kid was a little boy and even before social media was such a big thing. I would sit with him and we would watch cartoons and stuff and of course the advertisers would put through things that target them and it's harmful. It's like I'm sorry but like things that are full of artificial colors and sugars and highly processed this is bad for you, right?
 
 
00:38:06
 
Rob McMullan: And so I tried to make him aware of what's going on and you're going to see all this stuff that's not good for you. And so, you know, approach it with a critical eye, but at the same time, you talk about having a balanced outlook, Trevor, I think is really important. And I think a big part of having a balanced outlook, if you want to deconstruct that a little bit, is, you know, it starts from having the right perspective or or knowing that you can gain the right perspective.
Trevor McKee: Mhm. Mhm.
Rob McMullan: And but but to do it in a way that is not so negative like it's like oh you know I I was very concerned when my son started saying those things like dad was it so great in the 80s and all that I'm like well I mean my first instinct to say yeah but you know we tend to remember those really good things and idealize our parts of our childhood it's like no it wasn't like I we used to do crazy stuff right and some of my friends didn't make it out like I was always a bit of the wild child and some of my friends died and some of the stuff they did and you know kids today I think are much more conscious of not doing those dangerous things.
 
 
00:39:12
 
Rob McMullan: I'm hopeful because one of the things that's very interesting about Gen Z at least here in North America is they're drinking much less. They're not interested in drinking. We were always going out and partying and people would get in their cars and you know some of my friends died and one girl who I had a crush on she went off she was in a car with people there were the driver was drunk and she ended up brain damaged. I didn't I I didn't understand like she just disappeared for a year and a half and she came back and trying to finish her high school. So some things were definitely not better. so you I think parents matter terrifically. If you look at certain populations where you know you know you have a lot of single parenthood that really messes kids up because of course being a single parent is ultra hard. Being you know two parents of children is hard enough as all of us on this call know. But I I want to say like that perspective a lot of it is focusing on the positive because of course you know what Facebook made and all the social media people have figured out over the years and what they're adding their very sophisticated PhD people with behavioral science behavioral economics is they know absolutely that sensationalistic negative things attract much greater than positive things generally right and so it really takes parents a community strength
 
 
00:40:55
 
Rob McMullan: and the kids themselves ultimately have to figure out like okay how can I how can I focus on positive things how can I reframe this because I wrote something down here which is a quote I remember when
Jori Lichtman: Come on.
Rob McMullan: the kids kids are always like asking for something or whatever and if they don't get what they want they get upset and I remember hearing like maybe it was a teacher you get what you get and you don't
Jori Lichtman: Nice.
Rob McMullan: get upset you kind of got to deal with and I think that's very true.
Jori Lichtman: My son, if I can just add, is like a really sporty kid.
Rob McMullan: And I think children today, they're kind of they they have an expectation of getting stuff and they've been sold that.
Jori Lichtman: very athletic. and he like scoffs.
Rob McMullan: I mean that I know this is this is a little bit negative, but you know the participation trophies and all that.
Jori Lichtman: Is that the right word? He is not interested in a participation trophy.
 
 
00:41:34
 
Jori Lichtman: Like my my husband is the one who sort of, you know, is is more of the organizing the what hockey team blah blah blah.
Rob McMullan: We never had participation trophies when I was a kid. We lost.
Jori Lichtman: but in he's embedded that you know kind you know you don't need you know everybody gets a participation you so that's been a topic of discussion in our house as well
Trevor McKee: again.
Rob McMullan: You you almost wonder I mean this is probably wrong but I'm going to say it just for consideration. You almost wonder if it's better assuming they don't have some like big disability or other barrier, right? It's like maybe once in a while you hand out trophies that say you are a loser. I don't know. Like maybe that's the wrong thing. But like they they this is part of developing resilience though, right? Maybe that's too extreme. but you know they need to be able to deal with that sometimes. And one of the best ways to deal with stuff is through kind of a desensitization, which really is just a way of saying that experience is very helpful.
 
 
00:42:52
 
Rob McMullan: And a lot of these kids will grow out of these problems.
Trevor McKee: Mhm.
Rob McMullan: We're so worried about them as parents because we love them, of course. But you know, h how do you how do you develop that resilience? And I think if a lot of that is making sure that you yourself and your family members, your kids especially are exposed to things and you don't handle them with kid gloves. Like it not as fragile generally as we think.
Trevor McKee: Mhm.
Rob McMullan: And I had written down here something.
Trevor McKee: Yep.
Rob McMullan: I was listening to the radio the other day. Yes, radio still exists people CBC radio and they have terrific comedians that come on and I can't remember this woman's name. I should look it up. But she's an amputee or not even ampute like she was born without arms and she talks about it a lot and jokes about it in her comedy. Well, what a thing to joke about. But it was hilarious and you know she's got a very positive outlook.
 
 
00:43:47
 
Rob McMullan: Again, you get what you get and you don't get upset. You somehow figure out a way to reframe it. And I think that reframing very fundamentally importantly has to be focus on the positive. Unfortunately, human brains we know are wired to think to focus on the negative. Like if I the situation is if you've got your hand on a hot stove um you know and or it's near the hot stove or someone's going to put it on a hot stove, that's a negative thing.
Trevor McKee: Yeah, it's it's Courtney Gilmore is the is the is the comedian, I'm pretty sure.
Rob McMullan: But someone's saying, "I'll give you $1,000."
Jori Lichtman: Wow.
Trevor McKee: Yeah.
Rob McMullan: you know, I'll give you $1,000 if you keep your hand on the hot stove.
Jori Lichtman: I don't know if you guys watch AGT, America's Got Talent.
Rob McMullan: Well, you're not going to be focused on the positive thing.
Jori Lichtman: oh my gosh, the comedians that they have, they're not always, you know, don't always have a a disability or something, but there there are many that have.
 
 
00:44:27
 
Rob McMullan: You're gonna be focused on the negative thing. So, I know it's very hard. We tend to do that at a lesser level, but focusing on the positive
Jori Lichtman: And you know it's it's inspiring and wonderful to see that you know people who have a setback or a real challenge you know rise above and are able to laugh and I'll also you know talking about positivity and sort of resilience like for me in the in the you know setbacks that I've had specifically professionally you know I have always said I want to put good energy out there and People want to be around
Trevor McKee: Yeah.
Jori Lichtman: people who are smiling in our and not to say we need toxic positivity and and just slap a smile on your face and get over it, but I just and you I remember the podcast a couple podcasts ago about happiness and you were talking about, you know, smiling, the science, the actual smile makes you happy. I'm not even talking about that.
Trevor McKee: Exactly.
Jori Lichtman: I just I don't know maybe maybe it was my mom maybe wherever I got it but just I I say this often putting good energy out there.
 
 
00:45:25
 
Trevor McKee: Yeah.
Jori Lichtman: I once had like a networking conversation with somebody who was like asking me to have the conversation and the person was so negative.
Trevor McKee: Smiling. Yes. Yeah.
Jori Lichtman: It was so unpleasant.
Rob McMullan: Oh,
Jori Lichtman: It was just an hour of complaining and I was like this is what happening. yeah, so just good energy. People want to be around good energy and good positivity and you know I think that makes a difference.
Trevor McKee: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. And Yeah. and and and and that that actually makes a makes a significant difference. even in like and and that can roll over to work culture, right? So you know certainly I've been in places where there was a you know I mean a good friend of mine but every time it was always this list of grievances that we would you know be subjected to every time we went into his office and it was just kind of like okay you know like and I mean like many of them justified but and and and I guess I guess you know some amount of venting is useful to sort of get it out of your head but but it has to be balanced you know and if it's always only ever that stuff.
 
 
00:46:56
 
Rob McMullan: We're sorry to interject Trevor just because I I'll forget it and I so agree with both of what you're there that thing positivity but I I want us to be a little specific maybe each of us can talk
Trevor McKee: It can start to color your even your mindset and even everything, you know, you you just you feel less like coming to work because it's like, oh god, I'm going to be, you know, more more of that, more
Rob McMullan: about at least one tactic that like we actually use to be positive and one I'm just thinking of as you're talking is I've done for years is because we're all dealing with this stuff, right?
Trevor McKee: complaining. so I think Yeah. Yeah.
Rob McMullan: There are problems in the world. There's the question of whether the pile is getting bigger or not. I've heard a somebody who was an expert in this. They are a status a historical statistician and it was a few years I heard about this, but I presume it's the same.
Trevor McKee: Oh, sure.
Rob McMullan: So, they look back for hundreds of years if not thousands of years at all the things in history in the world that are happening.
 
 
00:47:36
 
Trevor McKee: Mhm.
Rob McMullan: And the question is like because it it often seems like ah it's getting worse like the world is so bad. Well, what he had found was that actually the pile is not getting better or bigger relative to the population. The composition is changing. So, it's just it's just it's not same crap different pile that old thing. It's actually you know the pile is the same. The composition of it changed, but we're all dealing with this stuff. It's not really getting worse necessarily. Some things are getting worse. But one of the things I've done for years is like no matter what I happen to be dealing with, if I'm going into an important meeting, so Jory, whether it's an a job interview or, you know, I'm trying to bring on a partner or a client or like get an investor, it's often what I do. Okay. It's important. And I completely concur with what you're saying that that energy is important, right? Because people don't actually react very well and don't make decisions very well on the basis of logic.
 
 
00:48:39
 
Rob McMullan: They do it on the basis of emotion. How you make them feel like it's f***, I don't want to deal with that person. They're super negative. I don't care how smart they are. We all know these people. I'll just I'll just quickly send my thing and then I want to I want to hear your So, what I've done for years, I have a picture on my phone.
Jori Lichtman: What comes to mind? Oh, go ahead. Sorry.
Rob McMullan: I don't know who this is.
Trevor McKee: Yeah. Yeah.
Rob McMullan: It's a little baby. Like, and I'd read some research of babies. Like, people are hardwired to love babies. Otherwise, we would have killed them all, right? because like they're useless and let's be honest. So, we've evolved to love babies. That's why they look cute and we love them, right? So, I have this picture of this baby. If I had it, maybe postp production we'll we'll put it up.
 
 
00:49:20
 
Rob McMullan: This baby is so cute and he has the goofiest smile and he has one little tooth. And every single time before I go into a an important meeting, I will just look at this picture of this baby for a few seconds and it'll make me smile and it'll change my demeanor. And so then how do we how do we do it? So we know what we need to do, but how can we focus on the positive? So I want to hear your tactics.
Trevor McKee: Yeah, go for it, please.
Jori Lichtman: you want me to go?
Trevor McKee: Yeah.
Jori Lichtman: Okay. The first thing that came to mind is music.
Rob McMullan: Oh yeah.
Jori Lichtman: I'm not I'm not musically inclined. I just like to listen to it. and I I wrote a LinkedIn post after I secured my last job. you know, some of the things that I did, I think I included this. I had a pumpup song before every importance interview or meeting and my pumpup song for whatever reason is Let the River Run by Carly Simon.
 
 
00:50:03
 
Trevor McKee: Yep.
Rob McMullan: Oh, heat.
Jori Lichtman: And I'm not like this like big Carly I don't know this time. Maybe it's because it's from the movie Working Girl. I think I I just think not even not even because I've like seen that movie a million times.
Trevor McKee: Yeah.
Jori Lichtman: I haven't. I've seen other movies a million times. so music, for, yeah, before something important, but also I play a lot of music. I've musicals are sort of like this. You can't be part of my family if you don't like musicals. You're out. My little guy is like, he's allowed to stay because he's like Embrace Hamilton. So, we've allowed him to stay. and, yeah. So, I'm just, you know, in the car. We're playing musicals. The Greatest Showman, Disney. it's funny because Dancing Dancing with the Stars is a show that typically would be like so up my alley and I So, my daughter loves it and I've known she loves it.
 
 
00:51:08
 
Jori Lichtman: Like, it's sort of AGT and I've known she's loved it, but I've never gotten on the bandwagon. But now, like I'm on the bandwagon of this season. It's so happy. It's so it's just it's just happy and joyful and beautiful and watching people learn a new skill and it's just very inspiring. So I would say yeah and I also I also book a lot of shows. I have we were talking about this last time I think Rob. I'm seeing MJ the musical, a Mervvis show. I'm going I I feel like oh you I'm going I'm going October 25th.
Rob McMullan: I call you tomorrow.
Trevor McKee: Mhm.
Jori Lichtman: and I feel like I should like have a t-shirt that says will travel for musicals, but not but by car. Just like I'm not a big like get on a plane and go for a weekend type of person, but I'm going to London, Ontario to see a production of Frozen. I'm going with my son and my sister and her daughter and my niece.
 
 
00:52:04
 
Jori Lichtman: So, I have a few more things lined up, but it brings me joy. music and it's November 20 something I can't remember.
Rob McMullan: When are you worried to frozen in London, Ontario? Well, the reason why I ask you is because for those of you in our audience who don't know, London at the end of November quite cold. It might
Trevor McKee: right?
Jori Lichtman: So hopefully we'll, you know, beat the freezingness. It's end of November. Whatever.
Trevor McKee: Oh, wonderful.
Jori Lichtman: We're just driving there, getting to the theater, going to Frozen. anyway, so that's the first thing that comes to mind when you sort of mentioned what specific things and you know it's free Spotify whatever but like practically free I've Yeah.
Trevor McKee: Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah.
Jori Lichtman: oil.
Trevor McKee: Yeah. No, and I absolutely do the same thing. I've got I've got specific lists of whether it's whether it's music or even YouTube videos that like sort of bring me into a better mood.
 
 
00:53:34
 
Trevor McKee: Like I think I think the you know one of those talent shows whether it's British Britain's Got Talent or whatever. you know, I used to just just have just a string of them, you know.
Jori Lichtman: Their talent is real.
Trevor McKee: I mean, of course, there's the the I forgotten her name now. Boille, the Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Susan Bole. Yeah. Yeah. is the great one. And then Paul I think, was another, singer.
Jori Lichtman: Their talent is not manufactured.
Trevor McKee: Similar sort of thing that, but it's just these these sort of uplifting things of someone. And I think I think I really connect with the fact that it's sort of just regular people that have this um gift that sort of don't even realize how good they are and and get up and
Rob McMullan: I just want to give a shout out to because we we tend to think of like America's Got Talent, which I think might be the original and Canada's Got Talent, Britain's Got Talent, Rwanda's Got Talent.
 
 
00:54:17
 
Trevor McKee: kind of get some success from that, you know, which is really and of course I mean it's manufactured but whatever still their talent is real.
Rob McMullan: Go Rwanda. You know, you can find talent. I I have no idea this exists, but I know. But you know, you'll find talent everywhere.
Trevor McKee: Yes.
Rob McMullan: We all have hidden talents.
Trevor McKee: Absolutely. You know and Well, yeah. Yeah. And and you you mentioned it in another episode too, Rob, of like, you know, everyone has self-worth and and and really not, you know, I I think that's something to take into account is that also everyone has has unique talents, you know, and and things that they're good at. And I think I think I well there's that that Einstein quote or quote attributed to Einstein of like if you spend your life trying to teach a fish to climb a tree you know it
Rob McMullan: That's good.
Trevor McKee: sort of and now I've forgotten the rest of the quote but are things you're good at and things that you're not good at and and understand that you know we can't all do everything kind of thing.
 
 
00:55:39
 
Trevor McKee: So, because I think so often and even with my with my kids, I noticed it too is that is that they can be they're a lot, you know, you're always a lot harder on yourself than even other people are of you. You know, like I I was working with my kid on a homework project and oh, you know, the teacher thinks I I did a horrible job and you know, all of all of these sorts of his perspective of what's happening in the classroom and then I I write to his teacher asking for an extension and she said, "Oh, no problem." And then she said, "Oh, he did such a fantastic job the other day in like uh presenting to the class on on another topic." And so, you know, I think it's just sort of it was it was enlightening to me and and it showed me that maybe I need to, you know, kind of help him with understanding that, you know, he's actually really good at getting up and presenting in front of kids even even if he's behind in some other areas, you know.
 
 
00:56:36
 
Trevor McKee: and it's it's really something that he shouldn't beat himself up about, but it's something that we all, you know, we all tend to do, tend to focus on the things that we, you know, we we understand that we don't know because we're focused in on our narrow areas versus understanding all of these things that we actually do know. even like Yeah, go ahead. Yes. Yes.
Rob McMullan: others where it's like ah I did so badly on that or you know why aren't why isn't that prospective client getting back to me or why is that prospective employer or whatever or girlfriend boyfriend not getting back to me and so we start to imagine negative things again you know the brain seems to be wired to go toward the negative but we need to develop a habit of positive thinking and you It is you don't want to be polyiana about these things. But I I do think I like your idea Trevor. It's almost like an engineering approach to how you think and you need to be systematic such that you you you you develop your tendency to think more positively.
 
 
00:57:47
 
Rob McMullan: And I think one of the ways in which we can develop this perspective is it's almost like a you know they do this in things like cognitive behavioral therapy and whatnot. You want to reframe it. You want to rethink it. and some of those ways in which you can rethink it such that you you determine that you're wrong. Like some of your thinking patterns are wrong. If you start from there, all three of us are probably our thinking patterns are not perfect. I I would certainly say so. And one of the ways that you can re reframe, you can have a new perspective is remember the times where you were so worried about something and it didn't turn out to be the case. It happened to me recently.
Trevor McKee: Yeah. Yeah.
Rob McMullan: something really good happened. I guess it's kind of I I I won't announce it now, but something really good. And I was totally wrong. It's like, oh, why why are they not why are they not getting back to me?
 
 
00:58:34
 
Rob McMullan: Why blah blah blah all this kind of thing. And I I think recognizing there are times in which we can all be wrong and not to always go negative and assume the worst and and and the important thing there is to have a habit of doing that. I don't know the answer to that, but I think if if you say to yourself that it's very important because maybe in the midst of it, you're like, I I don't I really don't like doing this.
Trevor McKee: Mhm. Mhm.
Rob McMullan: I I don't like being like this where I tend to assume things are negative. Yeah, negative stuff happens. And then you can kind of have an attitude of like, okay, well, maybe and so what does it matter? Oh, I I did something and I was really embarrassed or I really flubbed that thing. You know, is it gonna matter in five years from now, six months from now? It's ever really gonna matter.
Jori Lichtman: Well, if I can jump in with a couple of things.
 
 
00:59:27
 
Jori Lichtman: I just actually posted on LinkedIn last night. we were talking about you messed up. One of my favorite all-time shows as I should have also said comedy is is like really really important in my life. My Seinfeld was on in our house. I remember watching Jay Leno when we I would come home at night at 11:30 and Jay Leno I don't know if you remember Jay Jaywalking his like chin just comedy. anyway, so there's this quote. I'm just looking at my phone for a second because it's about the worrying. 85. This is so so I so I think I told you Rob that I have a podcast club. did I tell you that?
Trevor McKee: Oh yeah.
Jori Lichtman: Oh, maybe I told both of you.
Trevor McKee: Yes. Yes.
Jori Lichtman: Yes. So I started a podcast club two years ago about two years ago. really like a book club but the commitment is much lower. You just have to listen to a podcast episode and then get together and discuss it.
 
 
01:00:23
 
Jori Lichtman: So, you know, some girlfriends who are into this. It's not always the same people. You don't have to come every time. So, our last one was a couple weeks ago and it was an episode called Practical Optimism and it was on the Happiness Lab with Dr. Lorie Santos, which is a fantastic podcast. And I'm looking at the notes because every time I take notes and then I start the meeting like that. I sort of jot down notes from the podcast and then read them out loud and then say you know discuss or anything you know did anything sort of speak to you or whatever. So this quote 85% of the time the things that we worry about don't happen and 15% of the time that they do happen we're better equipped to handle it than we think. So, it's also reminds me of sort of that like I don't know stabbing yourself twice like you you're worried about you're worried about some I'm not getting the I'm not getting the parable or the quote right but but we just really cause ourselves a lot of pain and listen I am I am definitely guilty of this but we we are we are self-sabotagers as human beings I think but we cause oursel a lot of pain
 
 
01:01:21
 
Trevor McKee: Yes.
Jori Lichtman: by worrying about things that are 85% likely not going to happen and the other thing that what you said Rob Rob reminded me of that which I started with sorry my train of thought I posted on LinkedIn last night one of my favorite shows is Shitz Creek and so one of the episodes where David is going for his driving test Alexis is there and it's like literally one of my favorite quotes of all time kind of a two-part quote and she goes nobody cares and people aren't thinking about you the way you're thinking about you and it's just it comes out. So, I posted on LinkedIn last night. I'm like, I keep on talking about this quote. So, here's here's the clip and enjoy and you're welcome. Because I don't know, we cause ourselves a we cause ourselves a lot of anguish.
Rob McMullan: I mean, you know, we're talking about humor. Let's I mean, that's part of it like levity as a strategy. And I'm pretty sure someone with a PhD from MIT would get this, right?
 
 
01:02:32
 
Rob McMullan: Or from a pirate. Gota be at that. It is. Yes. I've I've just formally announced it, right? You heard it here first on High Octane Friends. I mean, the authority on what day it is. It's It's also You know, what else is it today? It's like eat a eat a jelly and peanut butter sandwich. Not a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. You just turn it upside down.
Jori Lichtman: No, that's okay.
Rob McMullan: Yes. Anyway, sorry to interrupt.
Trevor McKee: Is it speak like a pirate day already?
Jori Lichtman: Those are my things. Those were my things. It reminded me of the 85% worrying quote and and Alexis Rose, the genius of all time from Sh.
Trevor McKee: Is it speak like a pirate day already?
Rob McMullan: Annie Murphy. Yeah, shout out to Annie Murphy. Good Irish name. Anyway, yeah.
Jori Lichtman: She is beyond talented She knows how to pirate.
Rob McMullan: So, Trevor, did you want to add on to that?
 
 
01:03:29
 
Rob McMullan: We've covered a lot, but again again those of us who are who are joining us mid mid mid podcast we're talking about resilience you know yes and you be a pirate yes this is brought to you by pirates are us today but you know to be to be a little more crude some people would say well stuff happens stuff happens okay to all of us, but what are you going to do?
Trevor McKee: Yeah.
Rob McMullan: How can you be a resilient pirate? you know, if Blackbeard is giving you a hard time, what is it that you can do?
Trevor McKee: Welcome to two people in a pirate. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I I think I think the one thing that popped into my head when you were talking, Jory, was was kind of this con well a thing that I often tell myself and often need to remind myself of, but it's sort of like you have the best and you know, what's the best that can happen? What's the worst that can happen?
 
 
01:05:03
 
Trevor McKee: And and and reality is going to be somewhere in between those two extremes for the most part, you know. And it is is one thing. And then the other thing is is just uh what I try to remind myself as well is like I try not to worry too much about things that are outside of my sphere of control, right? So I have no ability to in the only ability I have to influence whether I get that job or that client or not is what I do leading up to it. But then in in the waiting phase when you're waiting to hear back, it's kind of like, well, I've put my best foot forward.
Jori Lichtman: If I can also just add we talked about a little bit before just community and people humans and there the book designing your life.
Trevor McKee: there's there's no sense kind of worrying or obsessing over it. And all you can do is just kind of like plan for what's going to happen, you know, either way going from there.
 
 
01:05:51
 
Jori Lichtman: I don't know if either of you read it, but they I don't know if it's called a life team or a I don't know like you know you I feel like I have my people whe you know
Trevor McKee: So, you know, I think it's it's a not that it always works, but it's, you know, at least at least, something that I can try to do to try to, manage what I'm, you know, what
Jori Lichtman: and everybody brings a different thing.
Trevor McKee: I'm thinking about for a particular, outcome. Absolutely. Yeah. Yes.
Jori Lichtman: Some bring the humor, some bring the practical, some bring like I need specific advice about this, but and you know, of course, we have a a broader community and a big group of friends, but like I don't
Trevor McKee: Yes.
Rob McMullan: Well, you're not you're not alone, right?
Trevor McKee: Yep.
Rob McMullan: What whatever the advice that comes from that, you know that you're not alone because feeling alone and and I think technology has has a lot of us, particularly the younger generations, right?
 
 
01:06:46
 
Jori Lichtman: know, I don't know if you guys have that as well, just like that's my go-to like negotiating negotiating. I you know, for my last job and I have a dear friend and he talks in like we language and it just warms my heart.
Rob McMullan: and knowing that you have some community and I think women tend to be better at this. I I just I don't know it's cultural or it's you know biological it it's a crisis for men particularly older men.
Jori Lichtman: He's like, "Now we're going to do this and now we're going to do this and now we're going to do this." Like just it's there's nothing better that someone who's team
Rob McMullan: We've been talking a lot on this podcast about, you know, younger people in Gen Z, but like there's a huge crisis in in older and particularly men. you know, it, you know, it's not often popular to talk about the plight of men because, you know, women have had it hard for so long and continue and in many parts of the world especially have it
 
 
01:07:26
 
Trevor McKee: Well,
Rob McMullan: so hard. But men men you know, they don't go to the doctor often enough. They don't have enough friends. as they get older you know, I don't know the right word to say here because this is going to sound negative and I don't mean to. It's only just my lack of imagination at the moment, but you know, it's kind of you know, that's not an excuse that you you say, "Oh, it's so hard to get once you're out of school. It's hard to make friends." Well, like you got to do something, but how do we this you know like Japan it's it's kind of easy.
Trevor McKee: Mhm. Mhm. And
Rob McMullan: You're in a small town in Japan. Everybody knows everybody everybody's kids are like your own kids and it's culturally different. We're not going to change our culture overnight here. What can you as an individual do to make your life suck less when all these things are happening? And of course, you know, like you say, friend, you you've got a kind of people that will come to you like that says a lot about you, Jory, in positive way, but not all of us have that.
 
 
01:08:23
 
Trevor McKee: Yeah.
Rob McMullan: So, what do we do?
Trevor McKee: Yeah.
Rob McMullan: Trevor Dr.
Trevor McKee: Yeah. Well, I I Well, I think I think one thing that I've found advice piece of advice that I've taken that that really works quite well is seeking out mentors, right? So if you feel like you need some coaching in a particular area, you know, go talk to somebody and and I think I mean there there's there's a saying that if you want if you want to if you want money from someone, go ask for advice. If you want advice from someone, go ask for money. So but uh you know just just to kind of say but I think I've done amazingly well ha finding a mentor recently who you know kind of uh just helped to reset my expectations and kind of said look Trevor you're you're brilliant you've done all of these amazing things you've done everything you need to do to know you know what you need to do next and so it's all in your head and you just need to kind of like you know um implement all of that knowledge that you already have, you know, and and it was really a a a change, you know, it changed my perspective from like, oh well, I'm behind on this and I don't know how to do that to well, actually, no, I do know all of the elements of what to do next here and it becomes more of a
 
 
01:09:45
 
Trevor McKee: question of like, well, actually executing on that and moving forward. so I think seeking out mentors is definitely one thing and then the other thing is is volunteering. So, you know, so I I volunteer with my with my kids Cub Scout group and you know, and I think it's it's really interesting learning experience to both kind of, you know, or the organized chaos of trying to run a meeting, which I will be doing later tonight, of uh getting all of the kids lined up to do a particular activity. And you know it's it's sort of it it it is a mild version of one of those you know of that sort of societal thing of like if you can be a you know in sort of a teaching role or or some sort of u mentoring role with with younger um kids or or even young adults of of teach you know mentoring them through a particular um topic getting them to face challenges and then overcome those challenges kind of together as a team and making sure that they're, you know, being nice to each other even, you know, so many times there can be kids can make, you know, like comments off to the side that are really and and sort of taking them aside when they do that and say and saying, "Hey, look, you know, that actually wasn't very nice to say and we we should be respectful
 
 
01:11:10
 
Trevor McKee: of, you know, of of our, you know, other people in the in the pack because we're all trying to, you know, we're all trying to learn something here." So, and and there's kids that are, you know, more or less disruptive as there are in any group. but I've really seen, you know, even over the course of a few um years of of kind of interacting with them is that they they do learn and they change. And, you know, there was one that kind of got really nervous like it, you know, like it was kicking they were kicking a soccer ball when they were supposed to be sort of paying attention to something and he got really nervous and came over and said, "Am I in trouble?" And and I I I said, "Well, no, because like when I asked you to participate, you did participate." So, the fact that, you know, you okay, yeah, you you got distracted for a little bit and you kicked the ball. That's, you know, I'm I I would it's it's a question of sort of rewarding the positive behavior as opposed to punishing the negative behavior, you know, which which is which people respond a lot a lot to and and that's even something you can take kind of internally um for yourself is like try to try to celebrate small wins, you know, even if
 
 
01:12:21
 
Rob McMullan: Oh, there I've got a good one. So, you just sparked in me getting back to my request to you earlier to give us specific tactics about how to focus on the positive. So whenever I have a even a small win and a big win like if it means okay I completed you know 20 minutes of high exercise like you know a lot of exertion or whatever and or something I achieved something or I just put good effort into it I will literally pat myself on the back like I do this and I think it's important you know it's it's a bit of a schlocky term for one
Trevor McKee: Yeah.
Rob McMullan: of their termites. It's like it's just kind of completely lost. Sorry again, high octane friends. I'm not I'm running on low octane today. I'm probably not even running on fumes. I'm not sure I'm running on anything, but Well, I I there's so many things that you reminded me of there, but tactics.
Jori Lichtman: Reminds me of Oh, sorry.
 
 
01:13:17
 
Jori Lichtman: Finish. Go ahead.
Rob McMullan: So, the tap on my back. Do do you have one that like how do you how do you be positive? How how do you be good to yourself? Right.
Jori Lichtman: well, I don't do this, but I I'm sure it's very effective, but it reminds me of Mel Robbins like high- five habit. I think that was maybe her first book. So, like literally high-fiving yourself in the mirror. I have done it.
Rob McMullan: Oh, heat.
Jori Lichtman: I have done it, but not like consistently and not in a while. I'm being totally honest. but my a friend of mine and a friend and I a friend and I can I speak we joke like like about gold stars I think it's like on you know Gretchen Rubin do you know Gretchen Rubin who wrote the happiness project anyway she author and she's written multiple books and she has a podcast and I listen to her as well and at the end of her podcast it's with her and her sister who's
 
 
01:14:01
 
Rob McMullan: Oh yeah.
Jori Lichtman: a TV producer and they give each other or they they give a gold star to themselves or they give a gold star to someone else. So, I think I got the idea from that, but me and a friend of mine sort of joke like, "Oh my god, I got I get a gold star just for making a dentist appointment for my kid." Like, I just I And you're talking about Trevor, earlier in the conversation, you were talking about stuff you're good at and stuff you're not so good at.
Trevor McKee: Yes.
Jori Lichtman: Like, I hate forms. Like, I absolutely hate filling out forms. I get like 20 gold stars if I fill out a form. So, I actually joked one time. I'm like, "We need to have a podcast." Me and this friend and just called like gold stars or something and just talk about the stuff that we do, you know, every day that is just the thing that you just don't feel like I don't know if you guys feel the same, but you just don't feel like doing and you procrastinate and you put it off and like you finally did it.
 
 
01:15:02
 
Jori Lichtman: You finally filled out that form or made that appointment.
Trevor McKee: Yeah.
Jori Lichtman: I don't know. So, we all get lots of gold stars. I'm giving you guys gold stars because you're hosting this podcast today.
Rob McMullan: Okay, that's awesome. I I was thinking as you were saying that, you know, it's a way in which we can kind of, you know, celebrate the small stuff because it's not just about the big stuff. You know, lots of little things and I but together they they matter if you make them matter. And so yeah, whether you pat yourself on the back or high five yourself in the mirror, let the gold stars stay. you know, it's almost celebrate the small stuff. I was thinking that, you know, that's the antithesis of don't, you know, of sweat the small stuff. So, you know, don't sweat the small stuff. Celebrate the small stuff.
Trevor McKee: Mhm. Mhm.
Rob McMullan: I mean even even things like we know with health and mental health too physical and mental health and of course your outlook is so affected biochemically by what we eat.
 
 
01:16:02
 
Rob McMullan: I think probably who we're around too, like ideally you're around each other. There's probably all sorts of chemical reactions that we don't know about, but you know, I would say sometimes I do this too.
Trevor McKee: Mhm.
Rob McMullan: If I eat particularly well at a meal or in a day, I I get a pat on the back.
Trevor McKee: Yeah. Yeah.
Rob McMullan: I don't know like I I I think these are habits. Habits are super important and they know this. Mark Zuckerberg again like you know he's I don't is he the new Dr. Evil? Oh, I think it's actually Sam Alman is the new Dr. Evil. Right now we're have now we're going to deal with now we're going to deal with being able to oh they call it erotica. It's pornography. Right then now now they've said that open AI and chat GPT and what is their version of the image maker video maker said Sora is going now they've said okay it's totally okay you know we're going to open
 
 
01:16:48
 
Trevor McKee: Yes.
Rob McMullan: it up so you can make your own p***. I'm sorry, but that is just insane and completely contradictory to any kind of corporate responsibility in my view. And it clearly screams of avarice. It's disgusting. but not to bring it down, but was I haven't read it.
Jori Lichtman: I add something about habits. hab yeah I've wrote a blog atomic habits. Did you guys read atomic habits about excellent some people say like he took it from someone else but let let's you know everybody puts their own spin on it.
Rob McMullan: I I
Jori Lichtman: but yeah I love the idea of you know people make a to-do list. I'm not very good at making lists. I I seem like I might be, but I'm not. But like sometimes people make a list and like some just put something on the list to cross off because mentally you feel you have that momentum.
Trevor McKee: Yes.
Jori Lichtman: You're proud of yourself and like check off went grocery shopping or what something you were going to do anyway or make that doctor's appointment because mentally, psychologically, the the dopamine or whatever the chemicals I'm not going to pretend to remember all of it, but it does something.
 
 
01:17:59
 
Jori Lichtman: It's like if I did that, then I can do this. and it's it just keeps that momentum going. So,
Rob McMullan: Yeah, momentum and habits and being kind to yourself and reframing. So, so these are some of the things we've talked about today. you know, it seems to like many of these podcasts so far, this is the sixth one, right, Trevor?
Trevor McKee: Yep.
Rob McMullan: but you know it many of our podcasts we realize well there's so much more to talk about and this has been great. Thank you so much Jory. and I hope the three of us meet at in person at some point soon especially before the weather gets frozen.
Jori Lichtman: I love it.
Rob McMullan: But, you know, we we've learned so much today and it's at the very least we always say like if there's at least just one one gem in here that you audience members, our our high octane friends can take from this then we think that will have been very helpful.
 
 
01:18:57
 
Rob McMullan: And the other thing I think we think is that if this sparks a kind of conversation amongst you and your friends or in your head and then how you can be more positive. I tend to be a positive person. That is my default. Of course, I'm dealing with the same stuff everybody else is. It's hard. I take this from my mother who's ultra positive and lives on her own and she's like almost 98 and still tills her own garden and makes her own bread and all this kind of stuff. And it's like, man, you're the most positive person I've ever met. Like, that's no kidding. And I'm very curious about how that happens. Some of it's organic. So, but and if you have any additional thoughts, audience, please do put them in the comments and you know, subscribe, all that kind of stuff. we're not making any money off this, at least not not yet. But we enjoy what we're doing. And thank you, Jory, for joining us today.
 
 
01:19:47
 
Rob McMullan: And yeah, and go be a pirate.
Jori Lichtman: Thank you for having me. This was really fun. Thank you for having me. good laugh. Speaking of, you know, humor and positivity and, it was a pleasure. It was so fun.
Rob McMullan: Today is is pirate day. Yeah. Bye everyone.