Introducing The Mary and Martha Show! Talking Modern Worship Music and the Priority of Purity

In this episode, Mary Alessi and Martha Munizzi dig deep into the world of worship music, ministry, and the realities artists face both on and off the stage. In this honest conversation, they lay out the challenges of parenting, creating, and staying true in today's culture.

* The cycle of rise and fall in worship ministries and what it means for today’s artists
* Navigating criticism—from clothing choices to social media backlash—and the reality behind the scenes
* How to balance correction and compassion without falling into harsh judgment
* The impact of artists’ personal struggles on their music, and learning to "eat the meat and throw out the bones"
* Why holiness and optics matter, and practical advice for supporting the next generation in life and leadership

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ABOUT MARY ALESSI AND MARTHA MUNIZZI

Mary Alessi and Martha Munizzi are twin sisters who have both made significant impacts in gospel and Christian music, as well as pastoral ministry, over the last 30 years. 

Born in Lakeland, Florida to evangelists John and Faith Stallings, Mary and Martha grew up in a musical, ministry-focused family and began performing at age eight alongside their older sister Marveline. Their upbringing was deeply rooted in faith and music, traveling the country with their family for concerts and crusades before eventually settling in Orlando at age twelve.

Martha Munizzi is a Grammy-nominated, Stellar and Dove Award-winning singer-songwriter, pastor, and author. Her songs have been shared by millions and she has travelled the world ministering and blessing audiences and churches. She is known for her energetic worship style and her work leading EpicLife Church in Orlando with her husband, Dan Munizzi. Martha has released worship albums, led large church music programs, and recently authored "Because of Who You Are: The Stories Behind My Music," sharing the inspirations behind her songs.

Mary Alessi is also a respected worship leader, songwriter, and pastor. After marrying Steve Alessi, she helped lead Grace Church in Miami and later co-founded Metro Life Church, which has grown to over 1,000 members. Her journey in ministry has been marked by authentic leadership and a focus on worship, with her music ministry stemming from writing for her local congregation before stepping into broader projects—often encouraged by Martha.

Their authenticity and willingness to share both the joys and pains of family life, ministry, and music have made them beloved voices among worshippers and creatives alike.

Transcript

Living, Sharing, Growing Together

SPEAKER_00 0:00

How long has it taken us to get into the podcast booth to start talking? Um this week or like oh our whole life. It's I went I did your podcast. I did yours. Yeah, that's it. We did a podcast. You did the Alesi podcast and I did a podcast with you. Yeah. But this is uh isn't it? Why people want more? They I don't blame them. No, I'm kidding. No. I feel you know, I think even a few years ago, I would have thought, what am I gonna say? And podcasts were not like the hottest thing that everybody was doing. Um but now that we were doing podcasts that weren't recorded, nobody was nobody watched. Um we should have been, they should have had cameras on us at all times. That's true. Um, but now that you know our kids are a little older and we've had a lot more, you know, some fights and some battles, some scars, some experiences in life, we got some things to say. We do we have a lot to say. You know, it's so funny you say that because if there was an opportunity in our 30s to do a podcast, well, let's just say, let's just put it this way Thank God there wasn't. No, we'd be like, delete the tape, find all of those and delete them, please. We don't believe any of that anymore. Dear Heavenly Father, we would not have known what but but you know, that's why I'm grateful for this season of our lives. Yeah. It's perfect. We can help somebody. We can. We both make a few people mad. Maybe they won't agree with us. Which is kind of one and the same. You know, the truth will I love this bumper sticker. The truth will set you free, it'll just tick you off first. Yeah, first it'll make you miserable. But truth is truth. Anyway, well, I uh you and I talk constantly, incessantly. Our husbands, it drives them petunious. Um, but we do talk all the time. We are twins, we're identical twins, and we um feed off of each other and we live vicariously through each other. And um we have a lot to that we love to talk about when we're together. Our kids love it. You have three kids, I have four kids. Yep, they're very close, they're like siblings. And um we were recently having a conversation where we took the kids kind of back in time and they had no idea what you and I have battled through in ministry and in music, which is what we really would like to talk a lot about if our audience wants that. Right. Um, kind of our experiences running parallel and not parallel. And you you were talking to the kids, my kids specifically, because I ask you to. We try to take every opportunity as a teaching moment. Right. Um, that are all young adults, God's using them. There's promotion happening for some, some are still in the season of waiting for the promotion. And it's such a reflection of what you and I went through. Yes. And how we went through and waded through the waters of comparison. God was exploding your ministry. Yeah. I had just started a little church with my husband in Miami, and we had almost nobody, just a handful of people. And you were be you were in movies, you were winning Grammys, you were willing stellars, your church was exploding. Anyway, I wish I was in one movie. I've never won a Grammy. I was nominated, but thank you. I'll take that. Well, I exaggerate. Usually I would not correct you, but um, I think it's you were nominated. I was nominated for a Grammy. I think that's the same thing. No, it's it was very exciting. I'll take it. And Stellars. You have a wall full of awards. I've seen it. Very grateful, but it doesn't replace um the work, and it, you know, it doesn't replace the the actual impact, you know, I on people. No, that's true. I'd rather know that I made an impact. And it is great. I again, I'm not gonna act like, oh, I don't need it. You know, I'm grateful for it. Right. Because it absolutely does help in your career because people respond to that or and are are um drawn to that, encouraged by that. It says a lot about uh your your music or ministry to get to win an award. So it's definitely, definitely a plus and an and something I'm excited about. But it's also um material for other people to see and maybe start judging themselves too harshly over, which is what I I think we need to pull back the cover, pull it back and let people see the dark side of even worship, artistry, travel, rewards, traveling, what all that is the real true Hollywood story, and how it has impacted not only us individually and our families, but our relationship. Yeah, being twins. So that's one thing that our whole lives we've never ever let anybody do to us. And I don't even think it's a conversation that we ever had. We never said, okay, here's what we're never gonna do. We just both knew that instinctively, instinctively, we're twins and nobody's gonna mess with that. That's right. And we valued those that relationship, even to the point where there were uh several years where I heard it incessantly. When are you and your sister gonna make an album? When are you and your sister gonna make an album? And it I started thinking, and I never was threatened by it. I don't, I was, I was curious. I'm thinking, Mary doesn't even want to. I don't, we just never wanted to. It was never a thing of, well, I can't I can't broach that situation because Mary will get offended or you know, I want to bring it up to Martha, but she might get like that's not that doesn't exist. No, that doesn't exist. So it was like we've had both now that we discussed, like, I'm not trying to make an album with you. I'm not trying to make an album with you. And but we knew that when the Lord had that as part of the kingdom purpose, yeah, then we would do it. But we were both so fulfilled in what we

Price of Pursuing Music

SPEAKER_00 5:21

were doing, and busy, and busy, and busy. I mean, the practical side of records, which people need to know, is it's a lot of work. You get excited and a lot of money that you got to recoup, and you're you're on this side of it. You got all these ideas, these aspirations, these beautiful songs, people that want to work with you. And then you get the record out there, and in order for it to live and to get in the ears of people, you gotta run around the world or go around the country and you sacrifice, you pay a big price for that. Now, in the beginning, I don't think either one, well, I know we didn't really understand that. We were evangelist kids, so we did know what it was to pay a price in traveling because we grew up on the road traveling with our dad and mom and singing. So that was in our blood. But that's very different as a kid than as a wife with a mother and desires and aspirations. Well, so I really think it'd be important because we've we've kind of had this conversation just in our own with our kids and driving around a little bit today. But I think it's a good idea. Why don't we start from the beginning? Go ahead. Because for me, we were young when we went married, found our husbands and got married, went from the ministry. Way, way back. Okay. And you both both of us had full-time jobs for years. Then we started having our kids. We didn't live in the same city. You work for a flower company. I worked for an attorney. Yeah, when I lived in Miami, yes, yes. I worked for a whole wholesale flower company. I just answered phones. Don't get excited. It was not a law

Flowers, Hustles, and Moving On

SPEAKER_00 6:44

thing, not all. It was just answering phones. And I would bring um flowers home. At the end of the day, the warehouse would give up all the flowers and say you can take as many as you want. Boxes and boxes of every kind of rose, carnation, every color, gorgeous. And I'd bring it back and then I'd sell it to people in the church. And I'd make some extra cash until I found out at work, if you sell them, you get fired. I'm like, oops, I guess I can't do that anymore. But that was short-lived because I got married and moved back to Orlando and then Dan and I, you know, got jobs and he was a home builder and we worked that way. Then I started, you know, working in a local church, and I did that for years. The day that our local church got started with um it we didn't pastor, but we worked with the pastor at the time. You and Pastor Steve started your church here in Miami. So you're talking 27 years ago. 27 years ago. It's our anniversary this week. Yeah, and we were the worship leaders and got involved musically, and you guys were the lead pastors of a church. And then just over the years, I remember I would call you after because we were a startup. You were a startup. Yeah, we just started. And uh this church had a little bit more of a notoriety, and the pastor had a little bit more of a notoriety. And so we start the church in and um we start with the the pastor there in Orlando, and it just exploded. Yeah. And here you guys are in Miami, just like clowing, plowing, flowing, like duking it out with the devil and everything. And for every person that walked through the door. Oh, just and then I would call you one Sunday nights, and I would just go off. Like I kept thinking about Joseph and the coat of many colors, where he would just brag in front of his brothers. Look at this beautiful coat dad made me. No wonder they kicked him in and they threw him in the pit. I'm like, how did Mary not throw me in a pit? Because I would brag and brag and brag. Oh, we had the most amazing service today. Oh, we just laid on the floor and worshiped. It was two hours of most amazing. It's it's blowing up. People are coming from everywhere. It's packed, there's not a seat around the block. And you were around the block. We can't, we can't even get the people in. Oh my gosh. And there, you were so sweet. I look back on that time and I'm like, I was a knucklehead. I didn't have any emotional intelligence at all to think maybe you didn't want to hear it. I had never walked in your shoes. I didn't know, never thought about it. I was just so happy for me. Of course, you know. And so uh you were just always so sweet. Well, that's just so great. That's so great. I'm so happy for y'all. Never thinking you were hanging up the phone and crying. Happy for me. Yes. But it's like, okay, but it's painful for you. Yeah. Because you want that to be your life. Yeah. And I wonder how many people experience that. Oh, I think everybody does. I think they do. I think we've all experienced that in some different time of our lifestyle. Somebody's marriage is doing great and yours isn't. And they're going on about how wonderful their husband is. That's hard for the wife. Oh, who's trying to lying? No, I'm kidding. Or for infertility. You got infertility lying. Bunch of kids, I don't have any. Yeah. Everybody goes through that. You the yes, it's it's it's one season, one subject, something or another that's part of it. And we have to learn how to manage that. We'll talk about that, but just very quickly. So then we did, we were there for eight years and we traveled, and you guys were such an encouragement. And your church was just still, you know, you were pushing hard and you were out here like grinding it, you know, and bare knuckling it and all that, trying to make

Encouraging Faith and Growth

SPEAKER_00 9:55

this church grow. And and I remember I would come into y'all's church. Mom and I would come to your church and you were in this little storefront. And, you know, we thought we were just helping so much by the words we would say. And we would say, Mary and Steve just don't understand that their anointing is so much bigger than this building. They need a bigger building. They need to have more faith. And I'd go, I'm telling them, I'm gonna tell them. And so we would tell y'all, you need to have more faith. And you're like, no, we need more money. We got lots of faith. Right. Exactly. And then no ability to walk in your shoes to realize it's not what you say. You know what I'm saying? Right, right, right. It did. I thought I was saying the right thing, but but to you, it was still like, okay, we know that. You know, you got a couple grand. You get in, we'd love to get out. So, but anyway, that was that. Then we started traveling and the doors started opening so wide. And and I want to go back, I want to just interject really quick there. When you would call me about the incredible things that were going on, I was really at that season, I wasn't thinking how dare she, why she rubbing salt you opened wound. You weren't. I was just so excited that something was happening somewhere. Yeah. Because something wasn't happening the way I wanted it to, where I was. So I'd a big, that's a big person to be, because that's not what I would think. Well, I I can't even tell you why I was wired that way. I don't give any credit to myself. I will say the damage that I did was I would project some of that onto Steve. And in our early beginnings, he was so proud. And I was ashamed. Right. And the Bible says, despise not your small beginnings. But I had come from large ministry. We had pastored along with his mom and dad. The church was large. We had helped it grow. And then the Lord called us out. It was a tough transition. So I was just so happy to be out here. Yeah. He was so happy, but he was also feeling the weight of the past. There was just so many different dynamics, which, hey, you can go listen. We have other podcasts where we talk about that in detail. Great podcast. You were not really trying to rub salt in an open wound. You were so excited for what God was doing in your life. And that's the point of this conversation. Right. There are ebbs and flows, and there's seasons where we're not even with everybody. This isn't a race that we're all racing against each other to see who finishes first. We're all just trying to finish it. It's all kingdom. It is. It's all kingdom. And we're we are going to finish it at different times. We're going to, some might run faster, some might give out. The person that runs super fast, you said it today to the kids. You said, This is not the rabbit and the hare. Yeah. Is that it? The rabbit and the turtle. The rabbit and the turtle. Yeah. We're we're we're in the long game. We're this exactly. We're not the rabbit, we're the turtle. We're the turtle. That's what she's doing. And that's okay. And we compare ourselves to the rabbit, but we don't know that rabbit's gonna burn out. Absolutely. They have attacks quick, easy. And and the turtle has has actually maintained and and what's the word I would I would say, the turtle has actually held back and um preserved their energy. See, we can think of it. See that I think I got you. They preserve their energy. And and Steve would always say to you, and I remember you telling me this, if you just do the right things long enough, all the time, just keep doing the right things. And that always stuck with me. Uh because my life shifted when I'm at this church and it's all blowing up or whatever. And then God shifted our lives and put us. I need to know where you got that table because that's the table I want for my house. Okay, squirrel. Um Lauren can tell you she's got that. Let me know where that's at. Okay. That's exactly what I want. Um, but anyway, so sorry, edit that out. Um, but we're we we were in this world where everything was blowing and going, and then that season ended, and we have now we've got even more aspirations and dreams for the future, and that we just didn't even know a person, not there was no destiny kingdom connection. There was nothing I could point to to say, here's how God's going to put me on bigger stages and I'm gonna write songs and and open doors. I had this dream, I had this vision, but I had no clue. And it was it was so overwhelming in that season. This was like late 90s, early 2000s, when we first started traveling, it was right, I think 2001.

Embracing Opportunity and Growth

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Yeah, yeah. And when we started to really get out there and travel. And we did everything, we would go anywhere for any amount of money to go. We would just, you need us, we're coming. Yeah, you need us to clean the church, we're gonna come. Like we were willing to do whatever, wherever God would open the door. And then one door would open to a bigger door. And again, I think sometimes I love the saying where we compare, you know, our life to somebody's highlight reel. Right. And it's worse now for our kids for this generation. Social media has made that detrimental to our spirit and our soul. There's things we never even thought about happening, couldn't have cared less if they happened, and now it's like they gotta happen because they're happening for everybody else. Yeah. And and that's really the comparison. But but then the traveling doors began to open for us. We did a live recording, best is yet to come. We did it at uh um Joel Osteen's church and at Lakewood and worked with Israel and Aaron and all these amazing singers and producers. And then the it was like Christmas every day. It went from this long season of barrenness and pain to all of a sudden it's like Christmas every day. And I am so grateful in that season that I had you. Yeah. And you never, you you only celebrated me. Right. And and you weren't experiencing that season at the same time. Not at all. The opposite. Yeah. But you never made me feel bad. I never felt like I can't share with Mary because she's gonna be kind of either, and you were never like you would celebrate it to the level as it as if it was happening for you. Well, you know what? This is the truth. And I had I told a story to you earlier. You said you had never heard this. No, I wanted you to tell that. But it did feel like y'all went from this incredible ministry, everything you touched was gold for many, many years. And I wasn't jealous of it. I knew I could see the price you were gonna pay for that. I wasn't blind to it. And I also was really questioning, I knew there was a call of God for pastoring. I'd married a pastor, I knew that's what we were gonna do. And in pastoring, when you're plowing in those early days, there's a whole lot of nothing for a long

Embracing Seasons of Success

SPEAKER_00 15:57

time. Yes. And what I see is a win, Steve doesn't, and what he sees as a win, I didn't. So anyway, you know, and then I've got my twin sister who was out here blowing and going, on tours, all the time. Everybody loves her. Everywhere I go, they think I'm you. And I could either go, I'm sick of this, and ruin our relationship, or just say, hey, listen, this is the season she's in of success right now. God's got my season. That's right. Now, that sounds so easy to say now. I fought to say that over my life at the time. And I'll paint a picture, just a quick picture. You would always say to me, what when the life that you were experiencing was exploding, you know, it was like it was Christmas every day for me. It was. We were pastoring our church, our church was starting to grow. I was excited, but I also knew I I was a five-talent person, maybe a three-talent person. Yeah. Um, but I had more in me, maybe four, four and a half. Yeah. I can cook. Um, but I Steve was always my biggest fan. It was never, even him, there was never any competition. But the devil was waiting and looking to see how he could devour us at every turn. He's always looking to see how he can destroy the best part of our lives was our was you and I. Yeah. Not the road, not the ministry, nothing but us. And the devil tried to destroy it. But I will tell you, you can't mess with a twin thing. No. Not and not ours. No. There's there nothing in nobody, okay? So I don't even have to say that much. We both know not. Even our kids know. Even our kids know you'll never get in between us. Okay. So, so that was never anything in my mind, like, it's not fair and she can get sis or whatever. I also knew that if I was gonna step out, I was gonna have to pay the price for that. Yeah. And you would call me and say, Mary, we need you out here. You need to record. You need to record. There's room enough for because I'd say, I don't want people thinking I'm competing with you, Martha. And you'd go, that is the most ridiculous. You would rebuke me. That is ridiculous. Don't you ever think that? There's room. The world needs more worshippers. Mary, you have a gift in your life. I don't know if you remember that. Yeah. But you always spoke that into me. And I, and it was like you were saying, you already know that I feel this way. But just in case, I'm gonna reiterate it, I'm gonna say it, yeah, you're gonna get out here. You helped me get my first project recorded with the right person. Yeah. And I recorded it, and it was five times bigger than I anticipated, 10 times more expensive than I anticipated. Right? Aren't they all? But this is the story that you had not heard before. I had paid somebody to help me a PR person. I had recorded the project live. God had exalted this awesome experience. You are on tour with CeCe, Yolanda, Juita Bynum, Sheila E. Sheila E. Risen, a band called Risen. All it was the Sisters in the Spirit, Kelly Price, Karen Clark Sheared at one point. No, she wasn't on that. Not that. Well, it was something else, but she wasn't on that. She had makeup stuff. I exaggerate it. Whatever. Anyway, you you had. Didn't you do that tour twice? I did it once. I did another tour, but that was just one time. But it was a long tour. It was a long tour, and I didn't know what your tour dates were, but I had hired this girl because my project was done and I needed to shop it. So she goes, Hey, come to Atlanta for the weekend. I'm gonna set you up for radio. I'm gonna set you up. There was no podcast. Set you up for radio, set you up some interviews, and get you to sing at this church. So I was a nervous wreck because here's the thing just because you were my sister did not mean I didn't have to do the grump. Oh, yeah. I know. The work. So we might want all the glory and the highlight reel, but the truth is you don't get that without the stuff nobody sees and really nobody wants to do. That's right. So I get to Atlanta, everything falls through. I've got my little CDs in the trunk. Everything except the church that I sang at fell through. Martha, everything. I know. Every radio interview, they just went, can't have her, can't have her. Sorry. We have so and so. Well, I didn't realize it was because Sisters in the Spirit tour was in town and they were taking up some of those blocks. So I'm defeated. I've sang at this church. They loved me, which was wonderful. They bought my CDs, that was great. But now I had till the next morning before I flew out. And guys, this is the truth. This is the God's truth. I'm sitting at the light, my friend is driving. She's feeling so bad for me because everything she'd set up had fallen through. And I'm like, I just want to go home. I just, I just want to go home. I don't even know how I feel.

Sisters in Spirit Reunion

SPEAKER_00 20:29

And all of a sudden, at the light, a tour bus rolls up and stops right next to me. And she says, Isn't your sister in town with the sisters in the spirit tour? And I went, Yes, I think so. And she went, Well, that's the Sisters in the Spirit tour bus. And I went, What? Kid you not. Oh my God. I jump out in the middle of the street. You jump out. We met, hugged each other in the street like we'd never seen each other before for years. But I'm so distraught. Yeah. And you said, get on the bus with me. I'm taking you to the concert tonight. Come with me now. So I got my stuff out of the car, said goodbye to my friend, got on the tour bus. Your kids were there. They were so sweet. It just made me feel like, okay, I'm not alone. We go to the concert that night. And before the concert, you're taking me around. You went, get your box of CDs. You took me to every one of those artists. Yep. And you said, give it. This is my twin sister Mary. She's got a project out. It's amazing. You got to hear it. I handed it to all of them. That night I went and stayed in your hotel room. You guys were up unpacking, you know, packing up the tour. So I went on to sleep. But I, oh, at the tour, your my brother-in-law, your husband, said, get to the merch table because I want you to help me sell merch and you can sign as Martha. They'll thank you, they'll thank your Martha, and you can sign her autograph, and I'm going to stick your project in as a bundle. He was like the best at the table. Dan Munizy would think of these things. And I said, All right, I'll do it. And I didn't care. I mean, the mob. Nobody cared. The mob. Of thousands of people, and he's just sticking my CD in there so they'd have it. And I'm signing as you, nobody cares. I even told a lady, I said, I'm not Martha. I I'm Mary. And she went, I don't care. Just sign it. I don't think she understood. So I get back to the hotel that night, and this wash of what are you doing? You're just a wannabe. You're just pretending. You're, you're, you're, you shouldn't have done this. You're trying to be your sister. That's what people are going to think. They don't know that that's not your heart. Devil is such a jerk. He is so mean. He is so evil. So you guys came in and you went to sleep. I was sleeping on the couch of that suite in that hotel room. I got up the next morning and I'm like, I'm just going home. And I went to the airport and I got the first flight out. I land. My phone rings. It's my husband. And he said, do not leave the airport. I still can't even believe this is a true story. I don't believe it either. So not making this up. I can't believe it. This is exactly what happened. He goes, Do not leave the airport. Um, one of the artists that's going to be on TBN tonight was floored by your music. You gave her the CD, she put it on, and she was floored. And she wants you on TBN tonight in Atlanta. Wow. Your sister has clothes for you. Go stay in the airport. We have a flight that's going to get you out in an hour. Unbelievable. And I remember I was sitting in the back row in the lat, you know, that hated seat that's up against the window on the very like row 48 or 52. That's where I was sitting. So I had to wait for the whole plane to deplane. To get back on another flight. Went to get back on another flight, got to the TB and studios, sang all night long every one of my songs, sold so many CDs that night that our staff could barely keep up with the demand. And it changed the trajectory of my life. Yeah. And I was on the road traveling, singing for nine years. I only recorded two albums. Yeah. But I knew at that point I was done and God was calling me back home to be in our church. All that long story to say, Wow, you know, God had my path. Yeah.

unknown 24:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

What would have happened if he still came through for me like he did for Sarah? Yeah. But I, in my pettiness and a small spirit and an intimidation, would have attacked me and I would have ruined our relationship. So I would have gained this notoriety and my dreams, but I would have lost this relationship. Yeah. Thank God, the grace of God, that did not

Trusting Growth Beyond Comfort

SPEAKER_00 24:23

happen. And because I know you think like me and I think like you, I don't even think my brain really held on to all of those details because I never added any narrative to it. I didn't add any negative intent. I knew, I don't, I honestly, because I know, I know my heart and I knew your heart, and I knew that when when God is doing something in you that's past your comfort zone, you're you want it so bad until you're thrown into it. And then you realize, okay, I am you gotta overcome intimidation, the battles, all the little strongholds, you gotta overcome those. David had to fight 31 kings. That's right. I mean, if we think we're gonna get away with the bear was just practice. Just the beginning. And he so he he only knew warfare. Right. But the great story is that his son, the next generation, in I love this whole scripture, 2 Kings chapter 5, he said, All my father has ever known is warfare. He only knew opposition. That's right. But now I look around me and there are no adversaries. I have no opposition. So that's something that I can see now at this stage of my life, where now our children don't have to have the adversaries. That's right. They don't have to have the battles. They'll have battles, but they don't have they won't have to have them because we fought a lot of battles. That's right. And now they can rebuild. Now they can go take what we've done and take it to the next level. And they have so many resources we didn't have to get the kingdom message out. I love that story because I think it's first of all, it blows my mind, but it is such a great testimony of how easily we could kind of how we feel like we could drop what God is doing or we could mishandle what God is doing. But even in that, yes, he still picks us up, scoops us up and goes, get your behind back where you're supposed to be. I'm going home. I said it to you right before we do the podcast. It's like if that the devil is so determined to cause you to believe that your God is against you and won't, he's not gonna do anything good for you. Yeah. You set yourself up here, right? Meanwhile, God's trying to get you a brand new car and he's over here signing for it and he he's at the dealership going, I cannot wait to give this to her. And I'm over here listening to the devil tell me God's never gonna give me

Focus on What's Absent

SPEAKER_00 26:40

anything good. Or the other analogy, since we both love uh analogies, alliterations too. Uh what's the bigger word? Analogies is the better word. But um, I we were talking about it today. We were eating breakfast and and there was a jug of orange juice sitting out. And I was I was saying to you, I was like, you know, we live in this constant tension over the over our lives of man, whatever we're focused, what whatever we don't have is what we'll focus on. Right. I want this, I want this, I just want that orange juice because the orange juice was sitting there. I want that, I want that orange juice. I just really want it. And we don't even think about all the other things we already have, we just want that orange juice. Right. And so we don't realize, okay, we get the orange juice. How do we know that God, you said it, has said that's not for you. It's not good for you. It's not good for you. It's forbidden fruit. Or, and then we go, okay, or or how about this? I want to give you a whole orange grove. Right. Like I want to, I want to make you the owner. I want to give you more than you can. You're wanting this, and God's, there's delay there. And and and I'm learning in this season of my life, and I'm encouraging my family members, my friends, don't get discouraged in a long delay season. No, don't delay God's delay any anymore. That's right. And because that's right, we can't make God speed up if we really want him to do what we want him to do, but we can slow the process down. Yes. And I think you can't you can't stop God from doing what he's going to do. But if you're in a delay season, you can delay it even more. You can slow down. You can't speed him up. But you can slow it down. But you can slow it. Yep. And if we're not careful, and I think, did we do everything right? No. But at this, but I think one of the main things we did right was the unity part of it. We were unoffendable. Absolutely. We never felt I never felt bad at you. I would feel bad about me. Uh exactly. I never blamed you because I went through bad, like after that, I, you know, you're talking about these incredible seasons that I had. But then after years of traveling, we got tired of it. We were grateful for it and grateful for all the pastors and leaders that had us. And thank God we have those relationships, but we knew God was shifting us to pastoring. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it took us probably seven years to say yes because we were like, No. Yeah. No, why would we do it? We saw how y'all struggled. Oh, yeah. It was tough. How hard it was. That's right. And it took like prophetic people saying, I don't even know you, but God is saying this. You know what I'm saying? Like, and David Binion, shout out to David Binyon, said at one of your conferences, God is speaking to the speaking this to you, and you need to say yes. He didn't know. That's right. He did not know. And to say that in front of the family, and it's time for you to launch and plant a church. And that was like, dear Lord. But we knew at that moment that's what God was saying. So now we're starting back over at zero. It's not the accolades and people standing in line to get my autograph anymore. It's people that would rather send a little note in and saying, Hey, your service is too long, or hey, we didn't like this, or we don't like women in ministry, or all these things. Or sorry, Pastor Martha. I know I signed up to be there today, but I got sick and I'm not going to come to church today. Yeah.

Faith, Growth, and Shared Seasons

SPEAKER_00 29:38

Or I can't imagine ever leaving this church. This church is everything. And then you don't see him again. You know? So say that. All of those things, but God was equipping me with a new skill set. And I realized that the seeds that, you know, I had sown in your life by being a sounding board when you were pastoring. Right. I just was a sounding board. I don't think I offered anything good. But now you have become the sounding board and the encouragement to me. Now that nine years of pastoring, I've been able to lean on you. So we didn't all we didn't always see the same success in every season, but we saw the fruit and we're able to feed off of the fruit of each other's seasons in different seasons of our lives. That's exactly right. And I I would I would even go so far as to say, you were a huge asset to me during that season of being a sounding board because you never ever said, you just need to quit. I mean, it's the same problem, Mary, over and over again. Well, it was. I needed, I needed to, a lot of it was immaturity. I needed to process it and hear it without judgment. Right. And knowing that I wasn't hurting anybody. Because if I said it to you, what I was feeling like church problems, relationships. It was my flesh. Yeah, and frustration when we don't have the money to do this and we don't have the finances to do that. And our building's too small. And I want, you know, I would just air all my grievances. And thank God I had somebody that I could. You were a tremendous resource for that. But now you thank you. I'm so glad to hear it. Praise the Lord. But now you come into my little building and you're like, you don't understand how great this is. Yeah. You don't need to spend one minute feeling bad. You're going to ruin this season. You're going to look back and be, you need to enjoy. If I could go back to the season you're in right now, I would embrace. And I oh, I wish I could do it all over again. Oh yeah. So for me not to listen to that, I know. That wouldn't make no sense.

Life's Picture Unfolds Slowly

SPEAKER_00 31:31

I know. And that that's the part of it. You don't, you don't get to look back over the landscape of your life and see how did it all turn out? Like what did we, what did we really end up with? What's the picture that's painted here until you live long enough? Yeah. And our sweet mother has told us that forever. And boy, is it true? Because we're 56 this year. Yeah. 56. And it's just now that I feel like I can really look back and see that decade after decade after decade after decade.

unknown 31:59

I know.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

Stop saying it. I know. But I can look back and see look what God did. I didn't even see it. And and connected it to this season. It's somehow they freaky. No, it's wild. It's otherworldly that God can do that. And you know, the most, I think what matters God to God the most is that, because he said it, he said, Lord, I my my greatest desire is that that they are one as we are one. And when we have relationships that we have cadavers in the battlefield of our lives, because we've ruined relationships for the sake of ambition and trying to succeed. And we see it everywhere. Yeah, we do. In the music uh industry in Christendom. We we see it, which I think we need to talk about in the next podcast. We see a lot of damage being done. But what honors God the most is unity. Yeah. You said it. And relationship. Um and life is is uh it's not like a box of chocolates. I wish it was. You have to understand the seed you sow is the fruit you're gonna get. That's right. That's right. So sow good seed. Yeah. And I think we've done that. I think we have sow relational seeds, so a season of in encouraging and celebrating other people when it's their season. Celebrate their victories. Because you know why? If I celebrate, if I say God's gonna do great things for me in the future and I don't celebrate you, I really don't believe God's gonna do anything good for me. I really don't believe that. I say it, but if I really believe God's got something great for me, I have no problem celebrating you. And with that, that's a mic drop. There it is. Thank you, Martha. Thank you, Mary. This was fun. This was fun. Let's talk more. Let's do it. We got more coming.