REAL IS RARE EP 5 - Darren Housholder and Eric Bugenhagen with Psycho Pharma

This episode comes in swinging! Darren and Eric from Psycho Pharma sit down for a raw, no-filter conversation about building a fan-favorite supplement brand the hard way — loud ideas, heavy testing, and formulas that hit like a riff to the face. From the birth of Edge of Insanity to dialing in high-octane stim blends, product fails, comebacks, loyal die-hard fans, and a brand culture carved straight out of the gym and the mosh pit — this one is all attitude and authenticity. The crew goes deep on manufacturing quality, partnerships, global expansion, GNC momentum, and what it really takes to build something people feel in their chest, not just on a label. 

Massive shoutout to Darren and Eric for rolling through with the Psycho fam, hanging with the crew, and stepping in the lab where their products are built. KEEP ROCKIN!

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:06

We got Darren and Eric with Psycho Pharma. Welcome to you. Yeah, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

I feel like call me out right now. Like just tell me right now. Like, because I'm in this position, do I have am I packing a double chin for this entire podcast? You look fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

It's quadruple. Yeah, no, I believe I can feel it. You look at chisel. You look great. Very chisel.

SPEAKER_03 0:23

Yeah, I like that. Thank you so much for coming out, guys. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Yeah, been uh, you know, it's been exciting to see your guys' story over the years and watching you guys grow and expand. And I'm starting to see you guys all over the place now. Saw you at GNC recently, franchise. So, yeah, how's that going for you?

SPEAKER_06 0:41

It's going great. Um, it's great to be here and uh you know, debuting like our new packaging with our custom lids, you know, raised varnish labels. Looks great. You guys are running our whole new run of Edge of Insanity, one of the biggest runs we've ever done. 500,000 units. Uh 15,000. 50,000. Go, go. It's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Hey, it's an extra comma. So let me just say this real fast. I've known Darren for six years now. You know that? Yeah. I've heard you guys say five. It's been six. 2019. Yeah. End of 2019. And uh the only reason I ever agreed to come on out to Burbank and whatnot is because you guys sent me some free pre-workout way back when. And it kicked my ass. And I only do stuff that I believe in. You know what I'm saying? And then ever since, because listen, both of you know right now, I'm still waiting on that coffee. I drink a lot of coffee. You know what I mean? But it's more of like water, you know what I'm saying? It just keeps my motor humming, right? But that's the thing with the the edge of insanity is like when I'm ready to kick it into full freaking gear and kick your ass, that's what that'll do. The coffee will just get me to hear and chit chat with you. But, anyways, why am I saying this? I'm saying this because it's like it doesn't surprise me that the brand's just freaking skyrocketing. It's just a matter of time, you know. Get people to try it, get their ass kicked.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

So you do your thing, you know what I mean? Make these labels nice and pretty, and I'll just spread the word.

SPEAKER_02 2:07

Yeah, they they look great. I mean, the embossed logos on your lids. Um, yeah, you guys did a solid job there.

SPEAKER_06 2:13

Well, the other part of our connection was far beyond driven. You know, so I I mean And you too, bro. I'm like other supplement brand owners. I mean, I'm like other supplement brand owners, you know. I'm obviously not a bodybuilder, you know. Um, I'm not a microbiologist. I I went to music school, I got a degree in music. But while I was in music school, because I didn't want to cut my hair and I couldn't work in a restaurant, I started working in sales and telemarketing. And after getting fired from about 20 telemarketing jobs, I finally got pretty good at it. Got good at sales. So I moved to California to be a rock star, and after 10 years of doing music, um, when the babies babies were coming along the way, I wasn't gonna be that guy we're sleeping on the neighbor's couch. Like we're not we're not doing this. So I went out and busted my ass and started sales, but I found Ephedra products. This is in 1998. And so I started, I I bought a house six months later. I quit my job, started selling Stacker 2 uh in 1998, and then over the long along the way, I started developing other products. Now here we are 27 years later with Psycho Pharma. Um, but the Far Beyond Driven, it's we're not it's it's it's more of a my um it's more of a tribute to like the metal and and my background is oh that's another reason too.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

I never would have gotten it.

SPEAKER_06 3:29

The far beyond driven, you know. We collect the tunes. Yeah, that was it, era you know, fitness training, supplements, and and metal music, not rock and roll, just necessarily, but metal.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Not your cheese ball, cornball, horse shit, mainstream. We're talking for the extreme individual, you know what I'm saying? Lifting weights with intensity is no different than freaking headbanging, screaming, yeah, you know, laying down a nasty, chunky riff.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

Absolutely. No, you're absolutely right. My brother had a same mindset growing up, and we used to call it Paulie's gym downstairs as well, too. So it was kind of like he had the area where he had the gym and the band, and they would do both, and it was it was it was awesome. Yeah, you know what I mean. I remember growing up, I'd be like, oh man, I I I hope I can be like that one day.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

I can't lift weights without cranking tunes. Yeah, and the music sucks, so does my workout. Yeah, jacked and cranking tunes. They say that the your heartbeat matches the tempo, you know what I mean? So pick that shit up.

SPEAKER_03 4:29

But back then, too, that was like now you look at like the ideal, you know, alpha male. That was the ideal alpha male, was a metal guy back then. Yeah, now it's like a lot has changed in society, you know what I mean? Like that was like holy shit, how do I become that guy with the concert jacket on that's jacked and gets all the chicks, right? I don't know, it's such a different world we live in. But in any event, it kind of tells you how old we are, right? Yeah, you know, it's badass.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

So everyone says back in my day was better, but no, trust me, back in my day, it was better.

SPEAKER_03 5:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Conan the Barbarian? Yeah. Heavy metal.

SPEAKER_03 5:07

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

Ruled the world.

SPEAKER_03 5:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

But so let's bring it back.

SPEAKER_03 5:12

Humble began. Right now, humble beginnings, and basically, you know, cold calling people and uh Bob Akafindo, right? Stacker 2. Yeah. And uh, I mean he's got a big thing. Yeah, that guy's a legend for me.

SPEAKER_06 5:24

I mean, no, I created the ECA stack, I believe. Great tribute for him. And stacker two was basically the uh ephedra, caffeine, and since it was herbal, it was white willow bark. But the actual ECA, what that is, is it's ephedrin, ephedrin hydrochloride, aspirin, and caffeine. With ephedrin and ephedra, you needed you needed a stimulant to really spark it. Because ephedra is not a stimulant. You can take five 50 milligrams of ma wong, stuck it at jack you up, it's not gonna make you sweat, but you need you need to fire it. And that's where the stimulants come in, like caffeine. And then when you add yo himbi, then it takes it to a whole other level. Because just yohimbi caffeine on its end and on it by itself gives you this like kind of mashing of the teeth. We're not trying to mash the teeth, we're trying to get that euphoric energy. So when you take like we use GABA, that's the reason we use GABA. It's it's legal, it's compliant. You know, I've been through Fenabit, Kana, Zembrin, all these other, all trying to get that holy grail of like ephedra, DMAA, DMHA. And the GABA, when you mix it the right way with caffeine Yohimbi, and Alpha Yohimbi, it gives you kind of that holy grail that I'm looking for of a feel-good energy burner. You know, back in the heyday, like the Oxyelite Extreme, Jack 3D. But mesomorph and what high tech has done.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

That'll cut you off, brother. But okay, here's the thing, too. Back when I met you, and you know, we came out and we two minds met, and I'm like, this guy's gonna make some solid products because you know, you're a freaking rocker from the 80s. You know what I mean? You know good energy, so I'm like, he's not gonna let me down.

SPEAKER_06 6:57

You mean I know the 80s illegal energy for more supplements? He's not gonna come up with some shit product that's not gonna get you there.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

So you know I'm like, hell yeah.

SPEAKER_06 7:07

I pretty much tried everything there is to try. And so I pretty much know what I'm looking for. What yeah, I won't get into that stuff, but I mean, you know, um I know what I'm looking for from experience. Yeah. And our products are formulated by experience. I mean, scientifically, they're they're in you know, Simpson Labs, which is like you guys are precision, compliance, legal, everything that a guy from the street, it's like rock and roll music. You want to, you know, uh you want is it technically written down, or does it come from like uh an experience and a feel? And it's like, you know, ingredients are scientific, right? They come from nature, and and but there had there has to be someone that's formulating it for a reason. It's not just like this looks good on the spreadsheet. I don't I don't like trademarked ingredients. I don't like using 20 different ingredients. I think it's it's frauding the public. I think it's bullshit. Let's just put in the real ingredients that work. I don't need your trademark on our product. That doesn't make the product better. It's bullshit. Yeah, and it comes out in the price, you know. Um, but the products are formulated because I've taken them enough times. Dude, I've been throwing up, you know, I gotta get this thing out of my body. I have a toothbrush. I'm in my office one day, right? And I'm trying out stuff, I'm guinea pig and stuff, and I'm trying to get it out of my body. So I'm in my bathroom of my office, and I got a toothbrush, and I'm ramming it down my throat. I try to make myself throw up. I'm like, get this out of me! Like, what the fuck have I just done? And the guy's looking at me, I'm like, what the fuck are you doing?

SPEAKER_04 8:39

That's a TMR correct.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

Did you brush your teeth with that same toothbrush?

SPEAKER_04 8:44

I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 8:46

That was a while ago. I don't remember. It might still be in the in the closet.

SPEAKER_03 8:50

That was some good stuff, though. I'm back.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

But no, I mean after all your trial and error, you finally came up with the perfect uh perfect combination. So it is.

SPEAKER_06 8:59

And you know, I've been um we've been with Simpson Labs since July of 21, so it's been a little more than four years. Um and so Edge of Insanity has been exactly the same since then. You know, we got it right with you guys. Um you know, you're you're all about just like the you'll you push the limits, but you're not gonna cross the line. I mean, we're not here to make products that we're gonna get in trouble for. We're we're here to make products that are safe, legal, compliant, but fucking work. Yeah. And I'm here to tell you that like I've tried everything and I've got banned supplements in my basement. Like, some people have a wine cellar.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

Not me by Simpson Labs.

SPEAKER_06 9:37

Throw that out there. This is all before Simpson Labs. Some people have a wine cellar. I have an ephedra cellar. I've got all the pro hormones, all the the DMAA, DMHA, amp citrate. Remember that? I've got all that stuff in my basement. And I I would take this stuff and go, okay, what's this do to me today? Okay. Now let me try this. And I'd have 10, 20, 30 milligrams, 50, 100, 150. And I would I would take this stuff. And I would have, you know, days with a toothbrush, you know, kind of trying to my body.

SPEAKER_04 10:06

It's got a whole bunch of things.

SPEAKER_06 10:07

I figured it out, man. You know, I figured it out. I'm not a microbiologist, I'm not a bodybuilder. I'm just a guy that takes this stuff every day for the last 27 years.

SPEAKER_03 10:16

Experience and hands-on experience is the best way to learn. I mean, you're learning by going through it, physically putting yourself through it to make sure it works the way you want it to work. Yeah. So that's uh to me, that's the only way to do it. And that's why I obviously you end up with the toothbrush like that, because you failed. And that one didn't work right, but you got to where you needed to get to. You know what I mean? Yeah. All the best fail first. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. But calling on the phone a lot, right? That's kind of like how you really developed the Netherlands reputation.

SPEAKER_06 10:46

You know, like we've all seen the movie, you know, um uh Wall Street or uh well, I'm Wolf of Wall Street. Wolf of Wall Street. Yeah. We've all seen, you know, um, I wasn't selling stocks like penny stocks, but man, dude, I dude, I've sold fucking bubble gumballs. Okay, so when I first went to work for this place, they were selling Christmas gum. There were Christmas gumballs, and and the canisters would like shimmer and shine on the lights on the countertop. But I didn't know that the Christmas gumballs said Felice Navidad on them.

SPEAKER_03 11:17

Oh, forget about it.

SPEAKER_06 11:18

So I just sold 600 of these things to a grocery store in Iowa. I didn't know. I called the guy back and he's like, what's this Phyllis Navy did this? What's this thing like? I'm like, what are you talking about, man? And I come to realize that they were because we were like, they were made in the PepsiCo factory and they're Christmas gumballs, and I'm selling this. I have no fucking idea what I'm selling, you know. But then you start then I started selling those ginseng shots and the ultra energy now packets that had Ma Wong, and there was real product, and that's really what it's all about. I mean, um you you can you can sell somebody once, but uh the business never builds if it's not residual. And the the guys the guys have to come back and you tell the truth and you have good product you believe in. When you believe in something, you can make others believe in it, and that's really what it's about. And you can believe in bullshit, you can even believe your own bullshit. But when you have great product and you just fucking know that this guy is gonna try this thing and he's gonna fucking love it. I just know it. And they don't want it, and you send them a sample, and then they buy 12, and then they're buying 48 of this flavor, 24 of that flavor, and you're just like I can see I knew that, you know?

SPEAKER_03 12:22

It's working.

SPEAKER_06 12:23

And that's that's how we built this thing. It's not from Angel Investor, it's not like just someone just dropped us in. We've built it up one store at a time, one customer at a time, doing just that organically.

SPEAKER_03 12:36

It's it's a beautiful brand, too. Like you guys were talking about earlier, the packaging details with the raised lid, and then also all the details on the packaging itself. It really it's something you grab and you gravitate towards, and you just want to hold it in your hand. And that's that's one of those things uh in our industry, that's like that's like half the battle because there's a lot of shiny objects on the shelf, right? Yeah, but this is the shiny object that insides even better. Kick your ass. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you're doing all evidence-based, you know, formulations, all the milligram doses are very well thought out, and they all go based off of clinicals that tie back to things that actually say this is the right given dose at the right given time to have that impact that you want. So I really respect what you're doing because it's not it's not the cheapest way to do things.

SPEAKER_02 13:21

It's not. I mean, that's a good point. You definitely went far and beyond, you know, no no pun intended, you know, to make it a more standout product. I mean, like you said, the formulations itself already work great, but you gave it a little bit of a makeover and it it looks looks phenomenal.

SPEAKER_06 13:36

Thanks. Excited.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

So backing everything up, what was the very first skew that psychopharma came out with?

SPEAKER_06 13:45

It was it was Edge of Insanity. Was it Edge of Insanity? Dude, I've got some product names that know you might be able to dig these up, but I'll I'll just give you one of them. Okay. So I thought it was a good idea. It turned out that it wasn't. It's not all really a great idea. That's not the solid start. That's not all start. Start like that and then see page. Okay, so this one is this one is cush rush. Now, the reason I come up with cush rush is because when you took fenabit, made you feel kind of cushy, like you were kind of stoned. Holy shit. And then when you put you fire the cannabis with uh fenibit, you fire the it's not cannabis, but it sounds like it, right? But you fire that fenebit with caffeine, yohenby, alpha, yohenby, and you get kind of a cushy and a rush feeling. Cush rush. But what I wasn't really thinking about is that no one's gonna let you sell this anywhere online because they think it's cannabis.

SPEAKER_03 14:35

Right.

SPEAKER_06 14:36

And including the customers who tried it, but it's a fucking great pill, man. Oh man. Fenibit's a great ingredient.

SPEAKER_03 14:41

Oh, it works. It knocks you. I mean, that at nighttime, fenabit before you go to bed, like button.

SPEAKER_06 14:46

You take the right, but it levels you. But you fire that with like you the right amount, not too much, right amount of yoimbi. You get this like you get this like joint in a Starbucks. Oh, yeah. You get a cush rush. You get this like stony thing, right? Someone else is gonna take it now. Yeah, I know. No one's gonna steal that name.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Well, they ain't using three buttons, that's for sure. Sexosterone. Oh yeah, I got it. Okay, look at the sex.

SPEAKER_06 15:08

So the testosterone product, our testosterone product now is called Thunderstruck. Huge ACDC fan, the greatest real rock band of all time, right? Metallica is the greatest like metal band, but ACDC is the the greatest rock band of all time. We've got black ice. Okay, we're not ripping off ACDC. It's a it's our and I'm tipping my hat to the greatest rock, right? Thunderstruck. But the predecessor to Thunderstruck was called Sextosterone. I actually paid to get that trademark. And um, you know, the problem with sextosterone, you can't do it. There's no problem, there's no problem with it. It's a perfect name. I thought it was a fucking great idea. It was a little bit too hard. Cool. You know? It's like I could play a metal riff and turn my amp up to 11 and blow the speakers and it's entertainment. But when you make a product that you've just paid the trademark and no one wants it, it's I'd rather blow up the speakers. Um doesn't cost as much to get the speaker fixed. It's like now we got all these bottles of six tostros. Like, what the fuck are we gonna do with this? Whose idea was this?

SPEAKER_03 16:16

Manhood in a bottle.

SPEAKER_06 16:17

Let's get back to it. There is one more. So howdy assist. So I'm like, all right, so we we've got Hottie assist. Howdy assist was I don't thought again, I thought this was a good idea at the time. A bust enlargement one was out of the theme of this is that you can't be afraid to fail. And you know, you have an idea. Oh, absolutely, and I'm gonna fucking go for it. And if and if I if I run through the stop sign, if I get a speeding ticket, whatever it is, if I make a bunch of product that's not whatever. I mean, we're gonna we're just gonna figure it out, and that's what I've been doing. But Hottie Assist was you had a seven-day water um pill for the girls after a month, whatever. So for seven days they take the yellow pill, but in the same bottle was the red pill, so it was the fat burner. So they have two yellow pills per day for 14 yellow pills and like 30 red pills. And I thought, you know, hottie assist, and I put the the buff girl with the glasses on the front, and that I thought it was I thought it was a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

You got all the husbands and boyfriends in trouble. That's that's that's it. Side chick over here.

SPEAKER_03 17:23

What's going on?

SPEAKER_06 17:27

That's all my that's all my shit, kind of, you know.

SPEAKER_03 17:32

That's good stuff though. That's good stuff. Again, though, that's that's how you get to where you're at now. You gotta like all ledge to this point. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 17:41

I mean, that's it. I mean, don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to fail. I mean, you know, I I I bought a house and six months later after I bought my house, I I told my boss I was going to Hawaii to play shows for two weeks with the boogie nights. That was in 1998. And I have still haven't seen them since. And it's been 28 years. You're still on tour? Still on tour.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

So that that was your background. I appreciate that, Darren. Eric, you before Psycho Pharma, what were you doing?

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Were you uh before Psycho Pharma?

SPEAKER_02 18:11

Body slamming people?

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, so where do we what do you want to start?

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Yeah, I want to start from the beginning. I want to know I want to know how you became a wrestler.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

How I became a wrestler? Okay, so my brother whooped my ass all the time, tortured me. I had an older brother. You know, he's obviously pubescent, he's feeling the agre the aggression. He needs to whoop my ass. And I'm like, frick, man. Like, I can't live like this. So like I just my dad had like the home gym, the weeder home gym set up, and just something inside of me is like, I have to lift these weights, I have to get bigger or I'll die. My brother just started wrestling too, so like he was putting me in moves I didn't know, you know what I mean? Yeah, pinning me and stuff, putting me in maneuvers, like ball and chain. Yeah, dude. Yeah, all this stuff. Yeah, chicken wing cradle, explodable cradle, chicken wing. So yeah, I mean, I just really got into lifting, and I think because of my um I guess my brother bullying me, I don't know, made me like a metal head or something too. I don't know, not that it's like rejects listen to it or whatever, but it's just like an outlet of like, I'm just so mad. I'm so mad. So, you know, I mean just listen to can't tear and lift weights, and I love it. And then um I was all in on wrestling and I just really committed to that and watched Division I wrestling, Wisconsin Badgers. Um but really was more into the lifting side of things. So once I graduated, I did a couple years sticking around coaching, but like lifting was really my what I wanted to do. And like, what did I want to do with it? I don't know. I just wanted to lift as heavy as I could. So after a few years of doing that, eventually I'm like, man, I just gotta like because people some of these kids were just blowing up on YouTube, just posting lifts. I'm like, fuck that, man. I can do this shit. I can I can put my lifts online. YouTube is different like 15 years ago, you know. Now everybody has a YouTube channel, but like back then I felt like you had to like I'm like, I'm not strong enough to upload my lifts yet, right? But eventually I just I went all in on it, uploaded every single day. Took me years to get even like a thousand followers. Um, but I didn't do it for a following. I didn't really care. I just it was just like a fun way for me to like push myself because I'm just you know max intensity, crank the music. I mean, this is literally it's just so perfect with everything. But like just turn the music as loud as possible, max out, scream, and uh eventually someone's like, man, like you should be with your personality, like your intensity and stuff, you should try doing WWE. And I was like, well, frick, man, I do have to do this college wrestling background, and maybe that would help me get my foot in the door. So I reached out to WWE a bunch of times, never heard back. I was like trying to call people that had some connections. Eventually I got a tryout, just brought that energy basically, you know, got hired like a week after. Um did that for years, but I mean, 2019, that's when I was I was doing WWE, but I was also still doing YouTube and stuff, and I think like you were saying, like Nick, one of the younger guys with psychopharma, it's like, oh, you should send this guy, he's a fucking lunatic. Send him some more psycho and stuff. And I was like, hey, they're like, what do you want us to send? I'm like, just send me the strongest thing you have. And they sent me some like pills and stuff, and it's like I was like, well, this is like fucking way too strong. You don't make anymore.

SPEAKER_03 21:14

Farbion pills is too much. Our quality department rejected them.

SPEAKER_06 21:21

What what you when you take two capsules of Farbeyon Driven, it was one capsule. So one capsule was 300 cafe.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

I do maybe five alpha. It was just like I remember being on a bike ride. I'm like, I just have to move. I don't know what to I can't stop. But anyway, yeah, you sent me the edge of insanity and stuff too. And I was like, yeah, man, this is fucking great. And then he just like invited me out to California to fucking play guitar and just I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 21:48

I remember when it meet up when I first talked to you, and it was like, you know, if you come to California, you shoot some videos.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

I remember too, and listen, the only reason I think I responded to his like message, because I I don't know, like you just like, hey, I play guitar too, or something, and I was like, Yeah, whatever. And then I like listened to it, and it's like I specifically remember, I believe I messaged you back. I'm like, bro, you're like one of the best guitar players I've ever heard in my life. Yeah, you're like, well, yeah, I mean, I mean you're very I studied music in Berkeley or whatever, and then like he's just sent me. I was like, holy fuck, this guy's like a real like guitar virtuoso, like not even just like blowing smoke up your ass. I'm like, he's like the real deal. Shrapnel records, right?

SPEAKER_06 22:24

Like, yeah, shrapnel records.

SPEAKER_03 22:26

Playing at the Troubadour still, right?

SPEAKER_06 22:28

Yeah, well, yeah. I mean current current. I mean, you're currently whiskey of go-go on 4th of July. I should have invited you guys.

SPEAKER_03 22:34

That is so awesome. I mean, that that's like one of the premier places to ever get a gig at.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

Yeah, when you're when you're yeah, dude. So, like, you know, way beyond strong ass pre-workout and stuff, and like obviously, what's the point of strong ass pre-workout? If I can max those weights out, but also like rock and roll, heavy metal. I'm like, dude, this is like there's no other brand that like kind of fits what I'm into. So then we just stayed in touch because I was in WWE and like WWE specifically sent out like a memo to all the talent too. Like, you can't have any affiliations with other companies because they were affiliated with C4 under their umbrella. So I'm like, well, fuck man, I'm like, I can't really do anything for you guys at this point. Because at the time I was you know, I was talking about the shit more on YouTube and stuff. Yeah. After that, I was like, I can't really push anything, and they're just super cool.

SPEAKER_06 23:24

Kept connecting. Um, you know, it was like you you just I just stayed with you, I wouldn't go away. Dude, honestly, yeah. Well, no, no, I mean that's like that's the thing.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

Like, that was years, and I was like, Fuck, these guys are like really they're good guys. No other company would do that, right? You know what I mean? Like, I can't do anything for you, but they're still sending me shit all the time, and like well, he believed in you hooking me up, and like I was like, man, this is like the only brand I knew. We're like, hey, I can't post for you, I can't advertise, I can't do anything for you, but they just like stayed with him the whole time for at least uh three maybe three or four years. It was December of twenty.

SPEAKER_06 24:00

You knew you knew he was the one. December of twenty three is when you'd called and said, you know, this thing you can talk about the thing with WWE and like how it split. Yeah, you were like in there and in like McMahon's camp, and then now it's split, and then you were on the other side, and whatever.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

New guy took over creative and stuff. I was not one of those guys, you know, it's it's normal, it's whatever. You know, anytime a new person takes over company, they're gonna have their people and get rid of the old people. So whatever. It's it was I was dude, like didn't phase me at all because like these guys right away were like, hey man, like we stepped up, and that's when we really came in.

SPEAKER_06 24:35

Right away. Perfect storm.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

It was like it was like a just a perfect transition. And right away, I before my I think my contract was even like literally up, just like getting everything planned out and stuff, and it just took off right away. Like a rocket ship. Yeah, now it's been a couple years and we've been a partnership. I've been at yeah, I've been at the Arnold, I've been to Germany, I've been to Vegas, I've done all this stuff and it's like I think you know, the timing and everything with the products, and just like it's the same product, it kicks your frickin' ass, but just like the the image and everything has been leveled up because you know people people you know judge books by covers is how it is, right? Like, oh my gosh, like wow, is this a fancy schmancy scratch? This is incredible. Exactly. So that's not the point. The point is it gets them to try it and like frick. There's no other pre-workout like that. I mean, I've been saying that for the longest time. I don't take any other pre-workout. And I've tried, I've tried a million of them, but I'm like, you just it's first, it's like it's pretty good, but then you build up a tolerance to it, or you feel like sick the next day, or yeah, it's the only one that's like once you once you try this, like nothing else, it's just kind of you know the only thing I can remember that compares to is like the Jack 3D back in the day.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

That that kind of gives a similar this is better, tastes better, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

It tastes better, but you know what? As far as the effect, I'm like, well, here's the deal Jack 3D, and we all I could feel it. We all freaking grew up on that, you know. But the thing is with that, it's amazing. Day two, it's like that's pretty good. Day three. It's like, oh, maybe I should take another scoop, day four, and then eventually you're like, should I take three or should I take four scoops? Right, because it has collarbells and whistles. So this is the stimulant component. All the time, like you don't, you don't, for your own good, don't take more than one scoop. Like, I always double scoop it. I'm like, that's the point. You don't have to.

SPEAKER_06 26:24

No, and the flavor is a huge part of it. Like we we have this, you know, strong doesn't have to taste bad because the stronger the product, the more medicining and crappy it is. But yeah, so not only, I mean, does this thing really kick your ass, but it's delicious. Like, I don't know why people would dry scoop stuff. I know why, because they're in a hurry or whatever. But for me, like I fill our shaker cup, I fill it up like almost all the way with one scoop. Because I for me, I just enjoy drinking it over the course of like 30 minutes or whatever. I have to sip it, otherwise, it's too much. Well, certain products it's not safe dry scooping.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

You get all these influencers out there, oh, look at this, and they throw it in their mouth. Like, motherfucker, you you're gonna have five milligrams of alpha Y just hit you like that. Like you gotta dilute it and slowly drink it. Yeah, like you can't just take all the shit to the dome. No, I can't. I tried it once and I almost put it in the middle of the phone. That's what I'm saying. I'll never get that again. Sip it. Gotta sip it. Like it throughout your work.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

Like a fine whiskey. Yeah, yeah, for real. That's a great, that's a great analogy.

SPEAKER_06 27:21

Yeah, we have the I mean, our our pitch is is now on the label 50 serving, 25 serving. And and we even have it here so you can see we can do the math for you. It's right here on the on the panel, right? Because even even a half a scoop, 50 serving product, I mean, there there's still you you still have you know two and a half milligrams UHMB hydrochloride, you have two milligrams alpha Y, you still you have 175 milligrams of caffeine, you have four grams of citrulline malate in a half a scoop. You know, there's products where the full scoop is like four gram or six gram. You know, um we have eight grams citrulline malate, you know, 3.2 beta alanine. Um, but it's not about the caffeine, you know, and and it's and the dye caffeine is in there. It's delayed caffeine, prevent the crash. I don't even call it dye caffeine, it's just delayed caffeine. Well, what is it, you know? You get 75% of it or whatever, right? So the way ours works out is you're getting about 52 milligrams caffeine on the back end. But when you when you take this and you sip this, like you're going to feel good, and then after your workout, when you're done, you're still gonna feel nice. You're gonna feel like, oh shit, I just got ran over by a car. I'm driving home from the gym and I can't wait to like yell at the wife and kick the dog. You know? I'm like good mood. Like, I'm feeling like and you should. You work out, never been in that mood before. Yell at the wife and kiss the dog in the reverse order. If anybody was standing at the front door, the dog's at the door to kiss the pet the dog and kiss the wife. Any married man will tell you pet the dog, kiss the wife.

SPEAKER_03 28:52

By the way, your your wife's amazing. No, she is a great entrepreneur's and even better, you know, wife, so she she pet at my wife. I have a great wife too, bro. She's great. Eric's sure she's amazing.

SPEAKER_06 29:04

You're you're you know, like she is amazing. Every comedian has every comedian has a straight man. Like Eric, his wife films, she's laughing. Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

And I'm always like, all right, let me lift you. Yeah, that's so like this might be a bit dangerous, but she's always she's always up for it. That's awesome. That's great. She like wants, she never wants to do it, but she's she's there for me. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:25

That's great. Good, good, uh, good support, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Couldn't do without her.

SPEAKER_06 29:29

Yeah, no, it is, you know, um, the loyalty and building building a team and being loyal, and for me, it's just it's natural. I've been with my wife since 1982. We were 16 and 15, we're still together. We have three sons, uh, 29, 25, and 23. Dorian, Damon, Devin, they all work for Psycho Pharma in different capacities. Um, you know, the Simpson Labs is a family. You know, I was up here really a month ago meeting with a lot. I've met you guys, I see you all the time, right? But come in here and really meet like all your guys and Jesse and Brennan and Erica and all these people here. That I realize you these people have been with you forever, man.

SPEAKER_02 30:06

This is a family. It is a family. There's there's no ifs, ands, and buts about it. I mean, everybody here puts their blood, sweat, and tears into everything. Um, yeah, I mean, ultimately at the end of the day, you know, everybody here is watching each other's backs, and we don't give our staff a reason to leave. You know, we take care of them because they take care of us. You know, anything they need, we're we're here at their disposal. So um this company is is founded on, you know, the morale that um surrounds us with all of our staff. So, you know, they're uh great team. Best in the best in the morale.

SPEAKER_06 30:38

Yeah, I see that. We're walking through, you know, we got our smocks on and we're walking through various parts of your factory. And everybody, you know, when you see you're you're pleasant and everyone's pleasant right back, and you you see that the real, the genuine part of it. And you know, you you need that because we're not always watching what's going on, but we need everything going on to be run the right way. And that's how you get that the morale. Um and you and it and it's and it it's in the end product. So hopefully the customer at the end, the consumer that opens your box realizes that the guy that packed that box and everything that went into that was done. It's just not just throwing in some numbers thing, like we give a shit.

SPEAKER_03 31:14

Yeah, there's a lot of meticulous details that go into manufacturing, and and the people on this team, they take a tremendous amount of pride in their departments. And those meticulous details for each department, whether it's capsules, whether it's powders, whether it's blend times, whatever that case may be, they know through experience, like we were saying over the years, how to do it the right way. It's not like okay, just you're gonna figure it out and there's some you know manual that you follow. You learn through experience, and every single department we have, I feel like they check the box of okay, quality and regulatory. You need something for Canada, you need something for Mexico. We're gonna figure out, we're gonna get it done. Um, and the same thing goes for fulfillment. I'm sure the experience over there has been pretty good dealing with those people on our end, George and Jesse and so on and so forth, and Ben, Christina. Long story short, it feels like when we walk out of a room, they can do just as good of a job, if not better, which is almost the best feeling in the world. Because when you have people like that on your team, you could really build something bigger. It allows me to go out and to be able to travel the way that I travel, be able to, you know, interact with you and see, oh my goodness, this guy's really, really making a move with his brand this year. And I can see that you're out at every show, and we're both out at every show, and you're you're there interacting with the GNC franchisees and very well respected in a very short amount of time as well. But um, yeah, we love our team. Uh obviously, you could tell by the way that Eric talks about him and the way that I talk about him. Brandon, I feel like he's the best in the business at what he does. I mean, he designed this whole place from top to bottom. It's just I could go on forever talking about people on our team.

SPEAKER_06 32:52

Are you available to build podcast rooms nationwide for anything?

SPEAKER_05 32:55

And he's gonna be on the road, you're gonna be like, SL East over here, you know? SL East.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

Oh, yeah, but yeah, like what Don was saying with uh the experience. I mean, when that was the whole reason we met. I remember you were having some um some issues with whoever you were manufacturing with previously. And yeah, yeah, yeah. I I I don't remember the name. Yeah, I don't remember the name. But I remember it was coming and it was a brick. Yeah. I'm getting these brick-filled containers, and I'm like, so that's when we took a stab at it, and everything's been great since. So you know, it comes with the experience. You it's like baking. You can't just throw everything in the fucking blender and just hit on. You gotta go through different phases. You gotta, you know, add items one through six first, blend for 20 minutes, add items seven through ten, you know, for another 15 minutes. You gotta take some of your silica and anti-caking agents and you know, make sure they go through a homogenized blend through these other materials, blend those together, and then drop everything together all at once. So all these different things, you there's no there's no Bible, there's no manual. These are all things that are learned, you know, through experience over time. And, you know, we have some guys that have been here with us since day one for the last 10 years that are still blending to this day. And they just take all that data and all that information, they just keep transferring it over to the next brand, the next brand, the next you, the next you. Because ultimately, at the end of the day, if your product turns to shit, nobody's gonna reorder it, we're not gonna get a reorder, and we just all lost money throwing fucking shit against the wall because you know, it's those reorders. Um, it's the constant customers being happy. We need to make sure everything is perfect in and out from you know what's on the label, how it's being presented, the panels, the claims that you're making. You know, I gotta tip my hat to our regulatory and compliance team because they go through all of those details to ensure that when your product is out on the market, it's not getting hit with you know any type of class action lawsuit. You're not getting sued for putting the wrong information or misleading people on their labels. Um, you know, all those attention to details really protects, you know, both the manufacturer and the brand at the same time. So yeah, uh all of our departments, you know, from top to bottom. Um, that's great. They're amazing.

SPEAKER_06 35:19

Dimitri great experience. So well, Dimitri, the wealth of knowledge he has. I'm like, oh fuck Dimitri again. You know, he's kicking it back. We got to change it because it's not right. Yeah, you know, yeah. So Dimitri is like kind of the gatekeeper on that. And and um and Joe, um, Joe O'Day, like he's the doctor and and the artist at or whatever. Super scientist and the artist at the flavoring Picasso. Super Joe. Yeah, he's like a Picasso. Um and the flavoring. He's like, Well, we got this node, we put this into this flavor, and I was like, what the you know, when you send you these samples, you go, Oh my god, Joe Horror.

SPEAKER_03 35:48

Hold on, let me go grab the super tester over here.

SPEAKER_04 35:50

Hold on.

SPEAKER_03 35:51

Yeah, we need a little bit more of this, but they're amazing. The experience is amazing.

SPEAKER_06 35:56

No, our flavorings are the best, and our powders, when we first, and it was funny because I go back to Amazon and it was 21 when we had product, it was was it was messed up, right? And so, like I had it in the title of Edge of Insanity, New Perfect Powders is what it read for a long time. It was because you guys made our powders perfect, you fixed it, and and therefore we could come back out and really launch and push because nothing will kill your brand faster than if you're using the wrong manufacturing um your your product screwed up.

SPEAKER_03 36:24

You gotta have consistency, and I mean the reason why we both started manufacturing that's a big reason, is because other people didn't have consistency with the raw materials. They're just buying where they get the best price. We are all relationship-based. Yeah, you can get a good price, but if sometimes we're gonna switch an ingredient out and that comes up and it's gonna be from a different manufacturer, you know, different whey protein concentrate, whatever it is, we're gonna put that in the product, we're gonna send you guys the samples, we're gonna let you guys try it before we ever change anything. But consistency in raw materials just in general, and making sure you're always getting them from the same people, I mean, that's something that's people don't understand the value of. It changes the color of the product if you use it from somebody else sometimes, it changes the mixability, might make it clump up. There's all sorts of different things that counterreact when you put the different raw material in there from a different supplier. Um, but yeah, that's huge. Consistency and raw materials.

SPEAKER_06 37:17

Consumers don't know this stuff. No, no, right. No, you know, there's there's so much goes on behind the scenes. I saw like your your your line, the production lines, and how they were wiping down the container, you know, before that like neck band gets on there, and just how like there's never any speck of powder on our label or or kept underneath that neck band that goes on there. How everything is just there's a lot of hand operators with those machines interacting, make sure things are done perfectly.

SPEAKER_02 37:43

Yeah, and and some of the stuff, yeah, some of the stuff it's fully automated, but we do have some things that are physically manual, and we you know we'll take these extra steps, as you said, to make sure that your product comes out. The last thing we want is a consumer to pull something out, and there's residue all over the place. I don't want to see your products sitting on a shelf that are dusty and just look, you know, have lopsided labels and shitty looking shrinks because it's a bad reflection on your brand. It also becomes a bad reflection on the manufacturer if they know who the manufacturer is. So we want everything to be perfect at the end of the day. So yeah, you know, we've seen products where you you actually touch the labels and you can kind of feel some texture, but it's not from the label. It's because there's dust and and granulations on the container that went down the line, and then a label got applied to it. We got to make sure everything, you know, is completely clean of any type of debris before the application process starts. So, you know, it's all these little teeny tiny steps at the end of the day that we want to make sure that everything looks right. And you know, back to where you're saying about consumers complaining, you know, sometimes a cons you know, your container, you're gonna open it up and it's a five cc scoop. And then a next lot later, same flavor, it's uh it's a sevencc scoop. People are freaking out, they're losing their mind. Oh my god, the product is wrong, it was made somewhere else. No. Well, consumers don't understand, and a lot of other manufacturers don't do the same, they'll use the same scoop regardless. We will actually test every single blended product within 48 hours of it dropping to confirm the bulk density of that scoop. Because not all bulk densities are the same, not all lot numbers from every raw material is the same, things different. And a lot of times people will just use the same scoop time after time after time. Well, what happens now when there's a lawsuit or a class action or somebody took um let's say a product was more dense than previous, and they took a whole scoop and it had too much caffeine, too much alpha Y, too much of anything.

SPEAKER_04 39:40

We had this conversation, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

We did. Um, and and this goes out to the people that are doing custom scoops out there. Don't do it. It is a liability because again, you're using the same scoop. Maybe now, because of the bulk density change, you're consuming more than what you were supposed to, more than what was on the actual label. So by doing that, we can Carry every single size scoop known to mankind, small, medium, large, hundreds that we have millions of scoops. We have probably, I don't even know, five, six, seven hundred different types. And we purchase them all and we stock them all because these are things that we can't wait, blend, test, then go and order the scoops. We gotta have these things on deck and call an audible, you know, at the second. So, you know, our line QC team does a fabulous job. They make sure that every scoop is being used matches the label specifically, and we'll take pictures and then we add those pictures to our batch records because down the road somebody will come back and be like, oh, well, I tested a scoop and look at that. You screwed me over. I got 27 servings instead of 30. They sent us a picture of their bullshit$5 fucking Weight Watcher scale. You're are you kidding me? Our scales on each line cost a minimum of$5,000, and that's just for a teeny tiny small balance. They get calibrated every single morning before production even starts. So we make sure that we keep everything in line, again, to protect the company and to protect our brands because we want to make sure that you know people aren't getting hit up with these frivolous bullshit troll lawsuits. So yeah, it just goes, you know, to what Don was saying, we just got to go far and beyond, again, no pun intended, on every single aspect to you know, to make sure that everyone's protected. So a lot of details.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

That's the meticulous stuff that we just don't care about. You guys handle. We don't have to care about here if we can trust us.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

We can trust you. We allow you guys to do what you do best. Exactly. Sales, marketing, and when I say we, I mean I'm talking about consumer. Of course. Yeah, but there was a drive scooping.

SPEAKER_03 41:41

It's it's super cool to see you guys though at the shows now and to see the big you know lines you have lined up with all your fans that want to come see you guys. It's really to see where you guys, the humble beginnings and to see where you c are you know you're at now, it's it's really, really cool to see.

SPEAKER_06 41:56

That's a great subject matter because with with Eric, your fan base, seeing you on YouTube, unless they went out to see you at WWE, but when Psycho Pharma exhibits at the Olympia, at the Arnold, you know, at FIBO in Germany in Cologne, they get to come see Eric. So they're lined up for like hours. And the thing about seeing Eric is it's not an autograph and a picture. Hello, shake your hand. You get the full experience.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

I'm like, 15 minutes to say hi.

SPEAKER_06 42:27

It's the full experience. You gotta give people the full experience. It is that, man. The guy's like bent to the people, very humbly. What are you doing here?

SPEAKER_00 42:35

I was not gonna hell back in the line. I don't care if we're making all the products and get back in the hell. He spends time with all of his fan bases and goes over everything. It's very nice.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

Very nice. Most people are high by next, high by next.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

You know what I'm saying? Like, we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for exactly.

SPEAKER_06 42:53

That really is the fun of it, man. You know, doing the shows and you're out there with with people and interacting. Um, it's it's nice to hear things about your product, like the guy's been using it, the kid tried to sample, or like he saw you at the sh at the last show, and he comes back, he's been using her product. Um, these guys get to meet Eric. Um, Eric's brought in like a huge you know, awareness for for Psycho Pharma, you know, and and and the right people, like people that like want that level of intensity. I mean, look, I mean, and that's the thing, like psycho for me, the word psycho means exceeding expectations. If uh if it's a psycho surfer, like he's better than the other surfers. You know, psycho means exceeding, it means going the extra mile, doing more than what people would expect. So if you're psycho about pharma, we're we're we're enthusiastic about our product and our brand. And that that's the thing with psycho, you go, oh, well, you know, and it's not and there there's an A in there for an anarchy. It just means fuck the norm. It just means it means fuck standing in line because you told me to stand in line. It's like I'm not fucking doing that.

SPEAKER_05 43:57

I love it.

SPEAKER_06 43:57

You know what I mean? That's what it's about. I'm not here to conform what people expect. That's not it's never been it. Like it or hate it.

SPEAKER_04 44:04

I love it.

SPEAKER_06 44:04

But I'm gonna move you. You're gonna you're gonna make a choice. And it's like, you know, and but we're we're authentic, and you know, Eric doesn't apologize. No, I just do what I do, brother.

SPEAKER_00 44:14

You wanted me to show up today in a tuxedo, I wasn't gonna do it.

SPEAKER_03 44:20

There's nothing better than being able to be yourself and other people gravitate towards that, and and they're gravitating towards, but they're also growing, right? They're growing with you, they're growing with the brand, and they're achieving their goals now through taking the products that you guys make, which is the ultimate when you have a brand, that's the ultimate form of success. It is that repeat business, like you're saying, those people actually coming up to you, seeing that look on their face, and then you being able to physically interact, like man, it's like this we've really I got tingles, we've really built something bigger here. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 44:51

Yeah, it really is. Darren worded it perfectly. Yeah, it's I'd like to think I brought a good, I brought some psychos with me. Oh man.

SPEAKER_06 44:59

Yeah, there's nobody.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

Yeah, more than people that want a density with the max effort pre-workout. This is the brand.

SPEAKER_02 45:07

I'll tell you what, when sometimes if I'm just scrolling through and I see your videos, and if I'm kind of tired, it fucking gets me going. I'm like, holy shit. They motivated me to get in that.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

A little bit more in the tank right now to get out of here. That's my new theme I'm going right now. Yeah, it's cool to lift weights. You can diplo if it's diplo. How can this help the world? Yeah. We're bigger and better things now. I love it.

SPEAKER_06 45:33

Oh, that's great. Eric, I mean you're you're just the motivational and people that know you know like you're a you're a fucking brilliant guy. You're a really super smart, intuitive guy. You too, too. And you motivate people just from the core. And that's that's that's really your audience. I mean, entertainment is one thing, but when you really like there's a cult that you've a cult following, I mean that in a good way, because you really like make a difference. These people think I see them. They come up, they're like half crying to see them because like you saved my life. You know, we've inspired, you've helped me get past. You've moved me, and you've made you make a difference, and and it's it's amazing to see that.

SPEAKER_00 46:08

Yeah, I mean, brother, I just love it, and I think when you're passionate about it, people can feel that, you know what I mean? So it's just genuine. Yeah, not trying to like sell a program or something, something phony baloney. I just do what I love, and I think people can resonate with that. And I think yeah, it's just kind of lifestyle in a sense. People see through sales pitch, it's not a sales pitch, you know. Yeah, and they might give shit this is what we're talking about. The product too. It's like you know.

SPEAKER_03 46:37

It's real authentic. You could feel it. You could feel it, it's organic, it's not made up. It's not like you're reading off some sort of script. None of us are reading off scripts today, which is great. Yeah. Real is rare, no pun intended.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

And sometimes dude, sometimes they do have this idea of things I want to do or things I want to say and stuff, and it's if it feels fucking forced, I'm like, this isn't for me. Yeah, it's yeah, because it's too it's disingenuous.

SPEAKER_03 47:00

Yeah. Where's the coffee? So yeah, where's the fucking coffee? Where's the fucking car? Jesse of adjuvantity. Jesse. I go home and mug and kiss my wife. Just that he just got done with the rest of the team, and he's bringing the coffee over.

SPEAKER_02 47:15

Uh, he's been shown in our your new fulfillment center for the last hour or so. Oh, is that what it is?

SPEAKER_06 47:20

Yeah, that's another big deal for us. So, you know. And that just further solidifies our partnership with Simpson Labs. I mean, there is there's no better company to deal with than the guys that have everything so meticulously organized. And when you just walk through all the various aspects of your I know I'm not trying to blow smoke here, it's just that I'm walking through all these various buildings that do different things from all your your ingredient testing and all that stuff that most companies you know have to farm this stuff up. And and how you're you're not about to build this sort of mountain. For you, you just love the whole game of it and the whole business of it. And it's not about like having a power and money or any of that sort of that's not what drives you. What drives you is doing this great thing, it's building something that's bigger than yourself and and building it with your team. And there's no one better suited to to fill ours and ship our product because I know it's gonna be done perfectly. It's like your your system, it's your logistics, as well as everything in the powder quality, but the logistics part of it is just it's mind-boggling to even kind of grasp like how the fuck this is. It was a lot, it was a lot.

SPEAKER_00 48:29

The tour was a lot, there was a lot going in. I was I'm very ADHD, so I was I think it was a little overwhelming for Eric's because it was so much detail. But that's a testament of how you know meticulous it is.

SPEAKER_02 48:40

I think after I took him through the analytical lab, he was like Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:44

Well, well, I mean, we did bring all the testing in-house, and we're bringing the testing in house, and that was a tremendous investment into the company, but it's it'll pay off in the next year or two. And and now we know for a fact every single product, we're not sending it out somewhere else to get tested, is tested under we're gonna be able to do that. Well, we send it out.

SPEAKER_06 49:03

You know, we're an Amazon seller, and they especially we have to send everything out, obviously. Our stuff we go through the can the testing with you guys, but Amazon will have like a particular sure.

SPEAKER_00 49:12

And you're talking about testing for each raw ingredient and all that stuff. That's huge, by the way, dude. I was I was drug tested for many, many years. So like I was very scared of buying certain products because I didn't know I've heard horror stories of people buying pre-workouts or anything like that, and it's like tainted. And yeah, I mean, that's when you fail a drug test, that pretty much ruins it. It ruins your career. Yeah, that would be a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 49:34

It ruins your reputation, stuff like that. They're very apprehensive today. And that was another thing, dude.

SPEAKER_00 49:39

That was another thing. Like, well, it's yeah, we're gonna, you know, stuff they're gonna be able to do.

SPEAKER_06 49:41

We're psycho pharma where we're not reckless, we're like careless.

SPEAKER_00 49:45

That alone for me, because like when I was being drug tested every single month, that alone for me, knowing like if I was going on Amazon like hardcore pre-work on something like that, man, what's gonna happen with this? We're gonna test positive for amphetamines or something, but like knowing that like I'm you know what I mean? Yeah, getting what's on the label, like screen in there.

SPEAKER_02 50:02

Yeah, simply laps is you know, we're we're NSF certified, we're informed choice certified for manufacturing, so you know there's no tainting.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

I personally can attest, and I know a lot of people out there, like that's a huge junk of peace of mind because that's something that's like always in the back of your mind as well. These athletes, I mean, yeah, I don't want to say that their careers are in my hands.

SPEAKER_02 50:25

But uh they fail that PED that where'd it come from? Who the fucking man manufactured this shit? Big old target.

SPEAKER_00 50:34

So we gotta make sure that it's good that you're it's good that you uh keep tabs of all that too, right? So you know everything's like because I've heard of stories too, people fail stuff and they'll just fucking feel contaminate their own shit. It's it's this, yeah. So like yeah, I mean it's a crazy world out there, man.

SPEAKER_02 50:50

It's uh crazy world out there.

SPEAKER_00 50:51

It's a doggy dog world for sure. Yeah, yeah. No doubt about it.

SPEAKER_06 50:54

Yeah, but we're um you know, we're we've been in GNC franchise. We've just got in, you know, basically they opened the door in May and April. I went down to um the conference in June. The franchise stores are bringing us in. Um the thing about GNC is that they're they're not a discount shop. It's not you're not dealing with right aid. All right, you know what I mean? It's not a good thing. No, it's a high end. You walk in there, um, and look, the stores are run by people who know what they're doing. I mean, GNC's been in business 90 years. They they have it down and they're not there to discount, but they are there, knowledgeable and helpful people, steering the right direction, you know. So for Psycho Pharma to be in that to be to be in with with this business is is great for us. Um you know, psychopharma's a premium brand. It's an extreme, it's not for everyone, but um but we're at that level, you know, and and I I have a lot of respect for these brands that are in GNC. You know, the Ax and Sledge, Bucked Up, you know, Alpha Line, a lot of these, a lot of great, great big brands, VMI that are that are do that are doing great. I mean, we have our own our own niche, our own thing. You know, what we're doing is we're not like I said before, we're not here to copy anybody, but I tip my hat to these guys. I mean, there's I could name something about every one of these brands that I respect for what they they do. Um I don't view us as a competitor to them. I just see what these brands have done. They've opened the the door, they've blazed a trail, right? They've shown you things that that's what's possible out there. There's a plenty of business for everyone out there, you know. Um, and it's not where we're trying to compete, like you're getting my lunch and I want to eat your lunch or or whatever. You know, it's not about that. Um, but you guys are helping us really like be whatever it is we are, right? We have our our own brand culture, and a lot of it's a tribute to you. I mean, what that's what I mean, when you do a trade show, you find out what your culture is. You can just stand around and hand out samples, or you have this guy horse cocking weights. And if you don't keep up with him, you don't get a shirt. There's no free shirts. Yeah, you got to lift this weight, and this guy's screaming at you to get a shirt. So, like our our brand culture, what psychopharma is, that's where Eric is really kind of help shaping that. With my background coming from one direction, his, with you guys, the the best supplement manufacturer in the game, you guys are um making our products. Thank you. I mean, we're fucking unstoppable.

SPEAKER_03 53:15

Yeah, yeah, it's it's good. I mean, I think sky's the limit in 2026. It's gonna be a great year. I uh I I mean people say that cle cliche, but I see all the cleaning. I think we all feel the time, the energy and effort that you guys are putting in, and then on our end, we have the infrastructure to support, you know. I want to say what we're at like 50% capacity right now, and then plus we made all the investments into the rest of the equipment and space. So and we'll invest into the company, you know, once we know the opportunity's there for sure. Um, but yeah, it's exciting. It's it's gonna be an exciting.

SPEAKER_06 53:49

We have a lot of new products to do. Yeah. We have a new lot, a lot of new products to launch, and you you guys have so many great ideas for us. Um the products that are out there, you say, okay, well, how can we make our own hydration that's better than whatever whatever is out there? You know, the collagen or or you know, protein obviously is very expensive nowadays. But what is our niche? What is our what is our thing going to be? What is our psychopharma, you know, um going to look like? Our version, we want to exceed what you what do you expect. We want to be better. You know, how can we be bigger, better? Bigger, better, faster, stronger. Yeah, you know?

SPEAKER_03 54:25

And speaking of that, what is the plans then? Do you have like a certain area that you're focusing on next year? You did a lot of trade shows this past year. Yeah. Are you doubling down then on the trade shows this year again? And then are there certain areas like you're saying GNC? You want to go further into GNC then? Obviously, the franchise side you're on now. Maybe do a test market on the corporate side. What were you doing?

SPEAKER_06 54:44

We're earning our way there with I mean, the franchise so far.

SPEAKER_03 54:47

I'd stay on the franchise side for as long as you can.

SPEAKER_06 54:50

Look, I um I've always loved dealing with like the brick and mortar people, like real business people that have started just like well, a lot of us who just came very a lot of parallels with the cards. I got a dream and a passion, and I'm I'm working every day. And you you deal with those people on the phone, you meet them face to face. It's I love that part of it. It's real, real relationships, and that's really, you know what I mean? That's the part of it that you really enjoy that. Um but uh we have in 2025, we we were we went from the Arnold in Columbus, Ohio. Lucas and I flew to Shanghai. We did the IWF over in Shanghai in China. We're over there for a week. We have two sellers in China. Um we were at the Wellness Week in Mexico City. Um we did FIBO in Cologne, Germany. We've done that three years in a row. This next year in 2026, we're gonna probably go to Mexico three times. Nice. There's a lot to be done down there. I mean, this edge of insanity in Mexico, kids love this, man. This is, I mean, it fits the culture. Well, which kids are we talking about here? It fits the culture. 18-year-old cannot is all free. Those kids have been buying underdosed. They've been buying underdosed, overhyped shit for too long. We're here to set it right and give them a real fucking product. Yeah. They don't want some discounted crappy product in proprietary blends. They want rockin' real products right here. Like this is what those guys are. Made in fucking America. Rockin' real, baby.

SPEAKER_03 56:13

I like it, rockin' real. I like it.

SPEAKER_06 56:15

You know it's fucking legit. You know this is a real deal. People are smart. I mean, people are smart everywhere, but they're smart in Mexico. They don't want some bullshit proprietary blend product. They take this, they know it, they know it's legit. Well, it only takes one one scoop and you'll find out. They don't want to buy knockoffs. They want to buy Levi's, they want to buy some knockoff of it. You know what I mean? Levi. Oh, they want to buy Levi's, I got you.

SPEAKER_00 56:35

I got that.

SPEAKER_06 56:35

They want to buy the real, they want to buy I'm just a lot of pairs in the notch. No, we are 26. We're gonna hit the road. I mean, we're gonna be at the Arnold in March, you know. We might be at the Arnold in the U UK. Um, you know, we're gonna be there's there's some fit weekends in Mexico we're gonna be doing. Great. Um, we always do the Arnold in the Olympia.

SPEAKER_02 57:01

Do you do a LA Fit Expo? LA Fit Expo.

SPEAKER_06 57:03

We do the um the Anaheim Fit Expo. Those are fun. Dude, it's just great being out there, just seeing people coming up to you. And you know, you get like the mom that's got like four kids and two jobs. She's like, I take far beyond driven every morning, gets through the day. And it's just like, fuck, I just love that, man. You get to meet people that you know it's the gift that keeps on giving. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:25

When you have clients that come up to you and they're telling you about how great the products are and how great of an effect that you you've had on their life, both you guys, it's just like you can't.

SPEAKER_06 57:34

If you're doing that, it's it's you're doing the right thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:37

Yeah. That's that's when you know that path that you're on is bigger and you're building something bigger, and it's it's bigger than all of us. Does that make sense to you? I'm all about it. Yeah, it's so cool. It's not so cool.

SPEAKER_06 57:47

It's not the Darren brand, it's it's Psycho Pharma, it's his team. What Eric has brought into like the culture, because you know, you evolve. Like you come in. I had this one mindset of what Psycho Pharma was in 2017, 2019, and it's evolved into this thing that it is now, but it's it's pretty refined now. But what is ahead of us are our new products. We have um vitals, a pre-workout. We formulate there's no Yo Himi in Vitals, so it's for like the regular earthlings. Are you sure you want to launch this one? I don't PY. I'll drink that at night. Okay, sorry, brothers. No, you're doing it. You're good. I'm just like you're growing this the whole time. That's okay. You're totally good. We have we have products that you have you've reminded me. So Eric sends me this email. I almost took it down. So what's going on with these? You thank you you apologize for getting back to me, like late getting back to me, but no, these products are still we've got the um the flavor samples. We've we've we've gone through the formula and the sample part of it. And I know that t takes a lot of time and money. Yeah. Um, but getting edge of insanity caught up. We were running into back order and and this is being resolved right here. Okay, right now. Excellent. Um the new products will come one at a time. Vitals pre-workout. Um, we've got hydration. We've got an ISO, psycho iso. Psycho ISO. Psycho ISO. Talk to me. Better hurry up because it's probably getting more expensive by the day.

SPEAKER_02 59:09

By the day, I mean literally just went out like five minutes ago.

SPEAKER_03 59:11

Have you tried? I mean, we've been doing a lot with the uh beef. So I don't know if that's something you want to look at.

SPEAKER_02 59:16

Grass-fed beef ISO. Yeah. What's for dinner?

SPEAKER_06 59:19

Yeah, off the record, on the record. Yeah. We um we want to steer that into whatever's relevant now. Where can we get our our best hit? And again, you know, we want to come out with something that we can if we can innovate, something what what what more what better value cycle can we do?

SPEAKER_03 59:36

Yeah, I mean, we created 8,000 products since the inception of the company, which is wild to think about.

SPEAKER_06 59:40

We want it to go to eleven. Going up to 10 is not enough. I'm looking for the eleven on the Marshall stack, you know? Yes. So what can you give us, you know, on a a beef protein? Is it clear, clear way beef? I mean, you know, what what can we make it unique, different, and exciting? Yeah. Yeah. Otherwise, we're not here to just redo, rehash. What's the point? You know? What's the new thing that we can do? And we can and then you know that's where Psycho Pharma comes from. We're not here to to copy anyone's formula. Um but I do like to take the best stuff I've experienced and go, you know, how can we do this? Can you give me 10, 20, 30 milligrams, 50 hundred, 150 milligram? You know? Um and you get it right and you delete it. And so these four our formulas have been exactly the same since we've dealt with Simpson. You guys locked it in for us, and it's been locked in. Yeah. Oh, you got your coffee.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:38

Oh, you got your there with it? Took a tinkle. No, it was just waiting for me.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:42

Oh my goodness. Well, they got they came through? Yeah. Okay, thank God. That's what I just asked. I thought this was like a joke. I'm coming in with an empty cup, like F you, Don. Thank God.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:56

And Eric's Eric's a Dodgers fan.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:59

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:00

Loveless now. Lovely.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:03

Man, now I can just kick back and relax. Holding my pee for an hour, had no coffee. Yeah, I was uncomfortable for you, brother.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:10

I kept on looking at my phone. I'm like, what's going on here? What's going on here? I told this guy an hour ago he's getting coffee. I could see, I could see your body, your body's looking at me. You're having a coffee raise with me.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:20

I'm good now. Yeah, I'm super calm and relaxed.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:23

How about some coffee flavors then for you guys? We do really, really, really great coffee flavors out in the field. Do you really? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. We could do it for a little bit. I mean, maybe we do like a limited edition launch or something and see how it goes first. You could put a picture of Eric on it. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:37

Drink it, drink it a cup. Just like that. Maybe you can do a live.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:41

When you launch it, you could do a live, you know, have them all come in, drink, drink it with you, and do a sign on the bottles or something like that.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:48

Well, we need more Bogenhoggen flavors. That's what we need. We need more than that.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:57

Did you make that?

SPEAKER_06 1:01:58

What?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:59

What the fuck did he say? That might have been back in the Kush Rush days. Sometimes we call it some brickdelhagen. Brick Del Hag's succulent fruitnog. That is really tried and they're being stretched to make it. Oh man, that's going to be a good one. We have good flavor. I think it's like a peanut cloak.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:21

They didn't make it, and to be honest with you, we still have some and they're and they're fucking hard as a rock.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:25

It's going to be expired, but we didn't have that flavor fucking foobard. As I have the I remember, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:31

I mean the lab switch, yeah. It's nice, fine powders. I remember the clothes of new powders are so I'm like, wow, these are like just like silk. But I remember the old ones, yeah. I was like, ah, no, unfortunately, that's for those who don't expect this.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:46

I've been through that. We've been through that on the manufacturing side in the past. And it's like, that's why we started our own manufacturing place. It's like you sit there on the phone and you're like, this isn't true. Yeah. This isn't, you know, it doesn't, this isn't how it works.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:00

I remember I went to the vitamin shop once way back in the day. They had the expired shelf. I said, oh man, this pre-organ's like eight dollars. It's a steal. But I opened up, I literally couldn't even, it was just like a it was a stone. Yeah. It's like you just what do you think? You put the whole stone in your shaker bottle? Oh, we we had a there was a product that was eight dollars. They put it.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:18

If it ain't clumping it, if you ain't you ain't pumping, if you ain't clumping.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:22

That's what they put in.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:23

Yeah, yeah. It should be, it should be hard as a rock. Yeah. I mean it's real.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:29

If you clump, it doesn't pump. That's it. I still have some of those stickers in my drawer at my office somewhere. You know, from years ago.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:37

Rancid.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:38

My man's back, like he's back. Well, we've learned though, I mean, the glycerol powder, you just isolate it in its own thing. You guys make our pump product and it's glycerol powder. You know what?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:48

We just had those guys in here a few days ago. We were NMB using the hydroprime. The hydroprime is the one that works, by the way.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:55

That's the one that doesn't clump. MMB. Yeah. That's the one to work. There's the other one that we won't say their name, but that one doesn't work. Yeah. You have problems.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:03

It's great as a standalone.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:04

Rather than rather than a scooper, you could just have like a little chisel and like a ice coverage. You never know what you're getting there.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:14

It's like you got those weed gummies, you leave them in your car, and all of a sudden it's one big giant fucking brick of gummy. You're like, fucking roll the dice, man. Never know what you're gonna get. That's how it was. Live life.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:26

Just roll the dice. See what happens.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:28

Speaking of weed gummies, so I sent my guy in Australia. One of the products you made for me. Um goodness. And he's like, holy shit, Darren. I had to cake. I took a whole scoop of edge of insanity. And he had to he had to eat some fucking weed, weed gummies to come down to go to the gym. I thought I heard an accent. I wouldn't hear the accent. I said, God, you bloke, what you putting this fucking yo himbi in this edge of insanity. I need two weed gummies just to go to the fucking gym. He still went to the gym. But he had a he had a solution for it. It's like, man, I need to take a couple of times. He had to calm down. Oh yeah. Oh my goodness. Level off the younger level, though.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:10

And they do like the product, and it's got a good response then internationally as well, too, beyond domestically, which is great. Yeah, I know. I mean, that's uh Australia is one of those markets where it's it's very domesticated. For an international marketplace, it's it's it's very like the United States in the sense of what they like with the products. Uh the issues are what you can bring in, right? It's like the rules and regulations are just completely different on the capsule side.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:34

Uh on the powder side, it's more lenient, but on the capsule side, it's real difficult. But yeah, that's that's that's that's a big indicator that, like, okay, your brand is gonna be able to go global. Like Australia is one of those markets. If you can make it there, then it's like, okay, we're gonna start introducing it. The other markets see it there, and then they're gonna start taking it in like Singapore, the Orient, all in those areas. Obviously, you probably in New Zealand as well, too, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:05:59

Yeah, and that's the thing that you know, and I've I've said this to Eric, you know, you can recall this is that, you know, I'm gonna plant the seeds everywhere in the world, and and we're gonna water this thing and grow, and then you're gonna light a torch of this thing and blow the fucking brand up globally. But psychopharma global is something that I this is what a cup of coffee. Yes, there we go. What manifestations, you know, this is what I'd say to myself, like Napoleon Hill would say, you know, manifests, auto suggestion. I would say this to myself 50 times a day call Psycho Pharma Global. And so we've been to China, you know, we're in Australia, we're we're in Europe, we're in Mexico. We ship product to Chile. Um, we have a new distributor down there. Um, we try to go into Canada. I'm missing fucking hard. Sorry, Canada. I mean, we're gonna try again.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:42

You're gonna have to revise your labels, adjust them, and do what the quality and regulatory team tells you to do, which is a different formulation than probably what you have. But but again, we can do it, and and like you gotta realize, you know, the the world that you guys are playing in and where you're going, those brands are all there. You know what I mean? Canada's I mean, Australian Australia, but Canada's the the other one where it's very domesticated, it's almost identical to the United States in many ways, right? Um, but that's a huge market for you guys. We can get everything done. Yeah, you can. Yeah, we can get done.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:14

Kind of back in the beginning, we started kind of working together, and I think I was spinning Eric's wheels so much on this Canada thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:20

We got that Health Canada cert now. So now we want to use it.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:23

Yeah. Yeah. No, look, with Canada is probably our number three market, or people are buying it from Canada. We're shipping up there. Sometimes they actually get the product. Other times, I think the DHL driver's like driving down the road. It doesn't get through customs. Driving down the road, drinking our product because the customer never got it. So it doesn't get through customs. No, sometimes it doesn't. Yeah, it's a shame. No, you we we we um we have made a no yo himbi formula. I mean, edge of insanity. We'll kick your ass with with just the endurance, the pumps, caffeine, the flavor, you know, um nootropics. You don't need yohimbi. But yo himby's not allowed everywhere. No, obviously that's the thing. I mean um, but um I love yo himby.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:05

I love this shit, man. Um with GABA.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:08

Yeah, Yohimbi with GABA. Uh but this is uh this is great. We really, really appreciate both you guys coming out here t today and spending time with us. Yeah, always a pleasure.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:18

Always a pleasure seeing you guys. We're wrapping up now.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:21

I just got the cup of coffee. Well seeing us. You're not gonna be able to get rid of us.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:24

You hit your crap. This was this is great. But we are, you know, I mean, we are moving in, moving on with you with you guys as um just really with with our our shipping fulfillment, it allows us to really all hands on deck growing the brand. You know, the guys I have some really pretty smart guys that have been doing shipping, they've been doing customer service, they've been doing sales, and they're really good at sales. I mean, look, turns out it's easy to sell a good product. All you gotta do is persistence. And it you open the door, like I said, the guy that brought in 12 that's buying 48 of this flavor, 12, 24 of that. Right. Um so these guys are gonna be able to focus on really growing the brand, more shows, more international. And then we can you guys can do what you do best, making product or fulfillment, efficiency, adding products. So that's what that's what we're doing for 2026. We're gonna get out to more shows, we're gonna be expanding products. Every couple of months there'll be a new product. We've got we've got a lot of the stuff we've already done our beta testing on. We've just had to catch up with everything else, you know, um, and get there.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:25

When you do your product launches as well, too. We have clients who come in all the time, they'll you know go TikTok live and all that, and Instagram live, and they'll launch their product. Next thing you know, it sells out, they'll start shooting off the streamers, so on and so forth. You're more than welcome to do those things as well, too. That's great. If you want to come in for a product launch, you know, we have the space over here at the gym to get your workout in, you can film it, and then also when you launch the product trying it and so on and so forth. You want to go live with it, it's so cool when they actually sell out right in front of you. Yeah, like to me, I'm like, oh wow, this is this is amazing. It's one of the like the best feelings in the world, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:01

Yeah, I heard about Jesse was describing that. Yeah, that you guys have taken a brand that comes in here and sells seven units a day to selling 700 in a day. Yeah, it's and you guys were like the backbone of that. It's wild, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:12

You know, it's one of those things too. It's they come here and it's you know, you're looking at 500 units, but you invest the time, you invest the money, and you see that opportunity that other people don't see. And now, look, it paid off tenfold. I'll be honest with you. When they were shooting off the streamers in the back, I'm like, what are they doing? And the guys are like, they sold out a product. I'm like, okay, they can shoot off as many streamers as they want. True story.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:33

They ordered 30,000 units last night. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's uh it's you got it, you got it.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:37

Yeah, and uh, and that's a thing too, direct-to-end user as well. I mean, it's a it's another spot for you guys where I think you can grow tremendously, uh, especially with all the different platforms nowadays, you know. Social media is just such a powerful tool.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:52

It is, there's a lot we can learn from you guys. That's the thing too. When I say, you know, by experience, it's like this is a new experience too. The more that we deal with you guys and around you guys, there's there's a lot of wealth of knowledge you have. You're you have this sort of aerial view. When when Eric walks through and Eric and Dawn walk through supplement shows, I go, how does it feel to be making almost everyone's brand in this whole entire place? Like they may not know who you are, but you're making every fucking product in this whole entire trade show. It is humbling. It is humbling. Your aerial view that you have of the industry, there's a wealth of knowledge in there for brands like us that are we're on the come up. You guys are really going to help us get to this next level. I really appreciate you guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:32

We're excited for the partnership and yeah, we appreciate all the opportunities. So thank you. And we wish you continued success, but we know you will be because you got us.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:41

Because the product kicks us.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:42

Oh, and you got this guy too. Yeah, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:47

I just lift the weights. And you know, yeah, the product speaks for itself.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:51

You are the driver. Yeah. Well, Jance, uh, again, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for taking the time to come down. It was great. Team of 10 people. So yeah, yeah, it means a lot to us.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:01

That's the thing, like the the Simpson family, and then you you've endeared us into your family, and I really appreciate it. Absolutely. Thank you. We're gonna build a lot more history together, man. It's now the fun really begins.