REAL IS RARE EP 10 - Darren Housholder and Lucas Thompson with Psycho Pharma

Building a successful supplement brand isn't just about creating great product; it's about building the right systems, making the right partnerships, and knowing when to let go so you can grow.

In this episode of Real Is Rare, the Psycho Pharma team returns to Simpson Labs six months after transitioning both their manufacturing and fulfillment under one roof. They share what it was really like handing over decades of logistics, why the move became a turning point for the company, and how it allowed their team to focus on what they do best: building the brand.

The conversation also dives into the launch of Vitals, Psycho Pharma's newest daily pre-workout, premium formulation strategies, retail relationships, international expansion, inventory management, and why quality and consistency will always outperform shortcuts.

Whether you're launching your first supplement company or scaling an established brand, this episode is packed with real-world lessons on manufacturing, operations, partnerships, and long-term growth.

Topics covered:

• Why the right manufacturing partner can accelerate growth
• The benefits of outsourcing fulfillment
• Launching a premium supplement that stands out
• Retail strategy vs. direct-to-consumer growth
• Scaling internationally without sacrificing quality
• Managing inventory while protecting cash flow
• Building a brand through trust, consistency, and long-term thinking

This is another conversation about building something that lasts—because in business, just like in life, Real Is Rare.

Transcript

Eric Simpson 0:06

Lucas Darren, Psycho Pharma. Welcome back to Simpson Labs. Thanks. Thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

Thanks for having us. Check all. Let's get loud. Let's get rowdy in here. Let's say I'll try the Eric thing. No, I won't. They choose to fill. Reserve for it.

Don Grace 0:22

But thank you guys so much for coming out today. We really, really, really appreciate it. And I feel like we've come a really far away in a short amount of time with you guys.

Eric Simpson 0:30

Yeah. Yeah. Especially since the last six, seven months since you've been here. Yeah, we were up here six months ago with Eric.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

And we had just kicked off the new edge of insanity, you know, the raised letters on the labels, the really cool lids. And and the big the big thing for us at that biggest thing at that point was that you know the I had owned a warehouse building and an office building in Burbank and sold that and and just put it all on inventory and put it all on Simpson Labs fulfillment. And just like just put it all on SL. No pressure, no pressure.

Don Grace 1:07

Your whole entire career though, you've been pretty much turnkeying everything yourself, you know, fulfilling all your orders yourself, and you never outsourced that pretty much.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Yeah, I mean, as just starting out of my garage in 1998 and moving into commercial building and having a retail store and warehouses, etc., you know, we've taped every box. We've packed every box, put samples in there, put a little love notes in the box, right? But you're you're your own shipping and your own customer service, and you have that direct contact with the with the with the retail stores, you know, and then with the consumers. So to sort of give that up was like like you sort of lost, like, well, where's our where's our product? You know, like this is it was very strange.

Don Grace 1:50

Sending your kid to college.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. A very empty mess kind of feeling. No, I mean that was strange.

Don Grace 1:58

That's all you you you love your brand. You guys take a tremendous amount of pride in your brand. You've done it right for so many years with the fulfillment you're uh yourself, right? To like just give it to somebody else, it's basically saying, okay, like we're gonna make sure we give it all that attention to the detail like you guys are doing, or if not better, which is huge. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

No, no, no, you're fine, but it just you know, as you know, it's since 1998. He's been doing this distribution, fulfilling every you know, brands and different stuff and uh logistics, and me starting in 2007, that's all we've ever known was handling all the logistics, the fulfillment, the sales. I mean, B2B was our thing. So it was it was a little bit scary, honestly, in January when we turned it over to you guys, but we we had full, you know, obvious, obviously we had full um full confidence. Full confidence, yeah, that you guys are gonna handle just because everything else that you guys do is to perfection.

Eric Simpson 2:50

So well, we appreciate you taking, you know, uh a chance on us and allowing us to go ahead and fulfill, you know, everything in your company. So we we do appreciate that. But yeah, I mean, if uh you know we we never bite off more than we can chew, we say no more than we say yes. Um if it's something that's not in our wheelhouse, if we think it's something we're just not that good at, or something that we can't focus attention to detail on, we won't take it on. But as soon as you came to me and you said you're super interested in us taking over your fulfillment, we were super stoked, super excited. So happy uh everything's been working out real good.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

So well, the stars aligned and and to give you your flowers, which I could do over and over, and we we both can, all of us can. But um, you know, when we first did the tour, I was like, man, this is a guy who you guys are you guys are both building this business, you know, vertically and at the right time. And so yeah, the fulfillment, the role's voice of fulfillment, you said it was.

Don Grace 3:41

And that sounds like logical systems up front, it was like what we get ourselves into. Like, yeah, you have this, you know, big expensive private jet to a certain degree, but nobody knows how to drive it. Um, so obviously it's paid off over time, I'd say, you know. Yeah, yeah. But at first we were like, oh boy, like we should have just stuck with spreadsheets and it was a one you know, very overwhelming.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

It was a bit of a um, to coin the phrase, I think you said we have the Rolls-Royce of fulfillment subject. Lajua. Lajua. It is, as I've come to find out, and Lajua does link up with Shopify, it does link up with with you know the Amazon seller's account, TikTok, and all of that.

Don Grace 4:22

Lajua, Christina, Jesse, George, yeah, and then there's a full team that has to make sure that Lajua system works, right?

Eric Simpson 4:30

It took over a year of training. So we didn't really take on any, I think we started with two or three accounts, and we had to slow roll it out because we didn't want to take on everything. And then all of a sudden, oh my God, what the fuck are we doing? Shipments aren't going out on time, they're getting lost, we we don't know how to use our system. So it took about a good year of training with our staff with the Lodgewood team to get everything to run smoothly. And as soon as it did, then we started, you know, open up the floodgates there.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

So yeah, and with us as a brand that is um, we're a lot of B2B, you know, and that and that was definitely an obstacle um coming in here with a lot of brands or they're direct to consumer, and that's great. But we've just we've kind of almost gone backwards or or forward. I don't know any other way, but you start dealing with retail stores and then you take the brand and you build it into the consumers. But for us, the first thing first was the getting it into the stores, and it's a totally different dynamic packing those boxes in that one unit.

Don Grace 5:28

Every every kind of store owner wants different things, they have different, you know, things that sell in their stores, so different dimensions, different types of things.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

46 of this flavor, 48 of that flavor, yes, and you get a box that has like 10 different SKUs in it, right? Yeah, and and that was that was definitely it was a little bit of a learning curve there for for for both of us, you know, getting past that. But but you guys have the organizational skills that are just on I mean unbelievable. It's hard to comprehend, you know. But when you come into your facility and you see how well organized logistically everything, you know you guys are up for the task. Um, but we were a little bit of a curveball, but you definitely you were able to hit it, you know. Um and that was the thing we grew together on that, and so now there's a real system, and it really it's it's Christina and Jesse and Ben and George, all those guys, and the communication has just been it's been great.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

That's exactly what I was gonna say, curveball, because we again B2B is a big, big part of our business, and so there was a little turbulence in the beginning, but the fact the communication is just beyond, like there's no comparison with again.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

You can call somebody Jesse, George, on the phone, you can text them right away. It's the best. Yeah, I've dealt with fulfillment in other countries, and it's a nightmare.

Don Grace 6:46

No matter who I work with, if I can just get somebody on the other end of the phone to talk to nowadays, I'm happy. But obviously, when you have a group of professionals and experts like we do on our team, like ourselves, nothing better than being able to get information. You know, you hit a button as well, too, on the other end, and you could visually see where everything is, and you feel comfortable as well, too, that everything's moving in the right direction. There's nothing worse, and that was a big reason why we got into fulfillment. Uh, the dead air in between, the damaged you know, shipments, the loss of product. Like it was unfortunately, we would you know, suggest people locally, we would refer people, and it would end up blowing up in our face. So we got to a point where we're like, okay, our customers came to us and said, if you guys can give that same level of detail you do on the manufacturing end, absolutely you should definitely get into the fulfillment end. And that was like the you know, push came to shove. Um, taking a damaged product from another fulfillment company locally that we were looking at buying, um, and they were switching over to us and the product, we still have it sitting back there, right? I just saw it. I would just never let it leave our warehouse like that or ship it to a person like that.

Eric Simpson 7:52

Yeah, it it was a great decision.

Don Grace 7:54

It was a great decision for our customers.

Eric Simpson 7:56

It was something Don and I spoke about for years, and it just, you know, something kept coming up, you know, our analytical lab, you know, podcast studio or innovation center. Um finally we finished everything that we needed to. So finally, okay, great, let's go ahead and dive into fulfillment. Because it got to the point to where, as Don was saying, you know, customers are leaning on us or asking us, well, who would you refer us to? Is there somebody you would refer to? So it was either A uh some of these bigger guys that weren't taking on any more business, or B, some of the guys that were available but might not have had, you know, as uh good of attention to detail as the customer wanted. So finally we said, screw it, let's do it ourselves. So we did it and we got into it. And it was very overwhelming at first. I'm not gonna lie. I you know, I'm very naive. I I do something, I think everything's gonna fucking work perfectly. It did not. So it took a long time to get together, you know, build out the team, build out the warehouse, the infrastructure, and everything. And uh it was um it was very tough in the beginning, but as time progressed, the team um got better and better at it, and now things are smooth. I I I literally send them an email, I said, Hey, so-and-so wants their inventory. Five minutes, boom, I have a complete spreadsheet. It's got all the information, the quantities, the palettes, the lot numbers. Um, it's all FIFO, first in, first out. So it's it's very uh very detailed. But you know, when we got into it, you know, other fulfillment companies out there, and you know, not shitting on them, that's that's their bread and butter. They're making money based on fulfillment. That is how they get paid, that's how they play their pay their employees. We brought it on as a service. We're not making shit on fulfillment. We're you know, it's more of a break-even, but it's making any money on my fulfillment.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

I can tell you that because I've seen the bills. Yeah, we charge very good prices. That's not, and I don't want anybody else to come over and use you guys to be too busy. No, you'd be able to expand, but no, it's part guys.

Eric Simpson 9:48

But again, it's yeah, I appreciate that. But again, it's a service because we want to make sure our customers are getting taken care of because the more successful you are, the more products that go out, the better everything's gonna be, the more business we're gonna get out of it at the end of the day. So it's a win-win situation all the way around. Eventually, we might make 50 bucks a month, maybe a hundred if we're lucky. We'll see. But we'll we'll cross that bridge when we get there. But uh again, it's just you know, making sure that we're servicing our customers the way they need to be serviced.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

So that was the picture that Jesse had given us when we were doing the walkthrough, when you guys were doing the pod, and he was like, This is to get you more under the umbrella of Simpson Labs. And it it would be it's even hard for me to say like a three you guys aren't a three PL, you're an extension of psychopharma. That's how I look at it. Because the communication is so you know, Jesse. I mean, we've had some like an issue here or there, and he's hit us back, like I couldn't eat lunch. I had to stop.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

Yeah, I couldn't eat lunch, and so it's not like another company, it's an extended family, and nobody really feel that way. And to your point, with the like the pick and pack fees are are just so minimal, and the shipping rates are just like there, there are I've dealt with 3PL, you know, expanding into Europe. That was this the thing of always, you know, building psychopharma, psychopharma global. So we're in Australia, we're in the UK, and we're in Europe, and I've used quite a number of fulfillment, and and it's a nightmare. Yeah. It's I swear, it's like the point of phrase, I feel like a bunch of high school kids that don't know what they're doing, and it's it's just crazy. But then you get someone on the phone, and when you get someone that says, you know what, man, I couldn't eat lunch because this thing was bothering me, and they they sussed it out for you. It's like, oh man.

Don Grace 11:23

You can't teach that too. It's either you are or you aren't. And Jesse is. It's in him. He's he has that DNA. Yeah, and uh and that that trickles down, that trickles down the whole line from Eric and everybody else within the coverage.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

Everyone, and Jacqueline sending me like all the labels, like you get an Excel sheet of all the all the labels, lids, neckbands, all this stuff, right? And it's boom, all here, and then and it's updated, and what's allotted, what's like and you know, what to your point, like when when our product is finished, it checks into inventory like the same day, like the next day. It's like we don't have a truck taking it here and damaged and counting it. It's just like, no, you got the same the same family that made the product counting it into your inventory. I mean, you don't lose any units. I mean, it's it's seamless. So it's been and to your point, it helps the brand grow. This is you know, enabled me to get three guys that were in my shipping onto the phones and be sales reps. So three of the guys are out here working out. Opportunity costs, smart guys, they know the brand from the bottom floor up, and they're on the phone as sales reps talking with stores. They know the products, they know the the company, and you guys have been able to help really help us be in a position to grow and it's working.

Eric Simpson 12:42

That's great. Absolutely working. That is humbling, that's awesome. And they they definitely know what they're talking about. I mean, I I snuck in while you guys were working out and filming, and I was listening to everything that they were saying. I'm like, fuck, they got a better pitch than I got. Like, yeah, these guys are very smart.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

Again, it's uh we've said it in video books, but it's it's a fan, not to be a cliche, but it's seriously, it's it's a family. Yeah, yeah. You know, we love coming to work every day, and to have these guys working the phones, marketing, and and growing the brand, it's just been such a we've known each other almost 20 years.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

So Lucas and I have been we've been arrested together, we've been drunk together, we've been sober together, you know. We've been through stuff, right? We've been raided together. We had a few other things to leave out, but um, you know, um, but we've got a group of 20-something-year-olds that are really bright guys and are ultimately our customers out there. Like we know who the customers are, they're in our office. They're those same guys that work hard, they're smart, they get after it, you know, they care, you know, and and yeah, so it motivates me. So I go to work every day. It's not it, it's not work, it's a mission. We're on a mission, you know. We're we have this purpose and we're just like we're after it, you know, every day.

Don Grace 13:58

That's exciting. That's exciting. And when you're doing it with a team of people that are all operating on the highest level, and you make those adjustments within your business where you're like, oh my God, I'm I'm sending my kid off to college. Is the kid gonna be okay? Next thing you know, you do it, everything's just as good, if not better. And now on the other end, too, you have everybody on your team, opportunity cost, I brought that up earlier, operating in areas where they're happier doing what they really love to do rather than sitting in your warehouse packing orders and dealing with logistics. Right. That's that's that's when it all worked. I'm like, I got tingles as you were talking to me about. I'm like, this is great.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Yeah, and we all come in with this one North Star, which you know, the the inception, Darren, you know, rolled out psycho pharma and the whole idea identity of the brand, which has just been cemented. But all of us have the same North Star. So when you have that in a group of guys, which I'm sure you guys have can attest to, you know, with your business, like magic happens. Magic just starts happening. So we already know where we're going. It's just now now the fun part's just you know, driving on the road and getting there. Yeah, yeah.

Don Grace 14:57

I was like coming in here yesterday and we were doing a lot of construction here. All this was on the floor like three days ago. Oh man. So long story short, I'm like, okay, is everything gonna be the way we need it to look? Lo and behold, good old Brandon has it looking like a brand film set over here, if not better. For those of you who can't see it. Like that. Five years, five and second. I have just looking like trophies over there on the shelf. Like as you trickle down, just as good if not better, it's if not better, with all the work that gets done in here, like you're saying about your team. So yeah, it's it's it's uh it's great to have those types of people on your team where it's like you give them that runway to do things and you put them in that position, and they do things way better than you'd ever imagined. I'm like, holy shit, baby. You not do yourself in your homie.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Well, never get down Brandon, right? But then also it's like, you know, we've gotten to know you guys more and more and being at the shows and grabbing dinner and like at the Arnold, you know, and then the Olympia, and it's like, man, we Darren and I talk about this a lot. It's like we want to do business with people who we we really like. And that's just that's a it's again, it's like again, an extension of a family.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

So not every manufacturer is created equally. I'll I'll leave one of them at the one that I've been dealing with, and it's just been really bad. But um, it's liquids versus powders, but um, but the powder's been great. But you know, we're here with a new product, Vitals, and for a high stimulant pre-workout brand with edge of insanity, you know, we have something that's it's got an edge, but it's not insanity, you know, it's vitals, and it's uh a medium stim pre-workout that's more emphasis on on pump, energy, focus, and feel good, all of those together. Um, even you know, that I I would enjoy taking this. I I would never think I, you know, for me it's just like like it's either heavy metal music or nothing, right? But I'm like finding my sweet spot and like there's some good country rock music out there, right? I mean, I'm finding myself in my older age, like I don't need to go that fast to really enjoy, you know. And that's and vitals is great for me because I can take it every day and I can mix it a little bit with edge, just a little tiny bit. But we've made a product that is premium. It's not like turning down edge and just like lowering everything. We built it from the ground up, so it's it's a ton of pumps, it's a medium stem, it's a lot of feel-good and a lot of focus, but it's also a lot lower price point. Like for us, edge is fifty dollars on our website and online. Um, for this, it's $35. So it's a huge difference. It's not like the product's that much cheaper, but we wanted to make the story is we wanted to make a product with a lower price point. And so we started about a year ago, but we kept adding all these really great ingredients and kind of building it up. And it wasn't like we were gonna make this sort of like, oh, let's just make some lower price point product. We made a really premium product, but we were committed to that point. Because like you have the people that are just buying a pre-workout for the first time, you want them to buy this, and you want them to buy this and go, okay, I'm not going back. I'm not buying any other like essential or base or kind of normal brand. You want them, you know, to go, I want the best, you know, I want the best stuff, you know, and latch onto this right away.

Don Grace 18:21

Your packaging's fantastic. Yeah, you know, and from over here, it's just shining. You could actually, when you turn the lid over, you could see it looks like your car. Your logo. We all like nice. It's it's really really like a trophy. You know, you're holding like a like you won something.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Yeah, we all we all like nice stuff. Yeah, you wouldn't be surprised at how many pictures that we get, like just from stores going like, man, look, the lids are awesome, you know, and everything like you know, the from the labels and redesigns and stuff. But you know, for us, you know, psycho pharma launched in 2017. This is our first, and we were talking about this while we were kind of doing the lift, but this is the first you know, STEM pre-workout we've released since Edge of Insanity, which goes to show like how much you know we really think. And like Darren said, this is a year in the making, so um we we know this is our Tesla. That's been kind of the the phrasing is like yeah, because there's 67 Mustang, and this is our Tesla. It's for the masses, but also it's not just some like Darren said, some turned down product. This is you know, I've had people say, Well, in that category you sell for 20. That that's not it's a base essentials, but there's nothing basic about it, right? And so when you go through the ingredients and each one pairs with the other one, um, you know, it really sits it as this like premium um pre-workout that you can take every day.

Don Grace 19:34

Yeah, they're getting they're getting a high-end pre-workout for more or less an economy type of price.

SPEAKER_02 19:39

Yeah, that's that's how you how you built it. You know, I mean that's what kind of Tesla did too. He's just made like everything. He's really clean, efficient, fast cars, but he's not making them uber expensive. Of course, there's the but like it but it hits that price point where like people we want everyone to try it. You know, we don't we don't want people to have to compromise, you know. You want them to be able to get the product. You take with 30 scoops of this thing, you're getting five grams of citrulline, you know, and you and you're getting 175 caffeine, and you're getting 70 milligrams of the dye caffeine, which you get like 50 of that, you know. Um, you know, and you're getting 300 of the alpha GPC. You use more hooperzine than anyone else, like a hooperzine takes the alpha GPC and makes it work.

Don Grace 20:23

Hoprazine is one of those ingredients that people don't talk about.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

It's the thing that makes that alpha GPC like last longer and hits you more. And then this DL phenylalanine. Can you say phenylalanine? I'm not even gonna try it right now. I'll butcher that thing.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

But it goes to anything. Phenylethylalamine? Yeah, there's DL phenylaline. Yeah, well, it goes again to like you know the hitting every pillar of like what what what you what we want in a pre-workout, and then every ingredient pairs with with another one. So the alpha GPC, and then you have the hooper zine extending the alpha GPC, and then you have the DLPA, which is gonna you know promote dopamine because it'll make you feel good, and then the caffeine's gonna kick that off, and then you have the citrulline, which is the NO, and then the beta and hydrous, which is gonna shuttle the water into your muscles. So every ingredient pairs with another ingredient. So um this thing is very intentional. There's not just stuff thrown in there, there's no window dressing, and again, no prop blends. We've never done a prop blend, and I don't think we ever will. Um that's great. It's uh, you know, and that's just again from Darren, Darren's always been full transparency.

SPEAKER_02 21:22

Yeah, part of it, because people are smart, yeah. So don't I mean it's like these these companies that put clowns on their product, they're like they think this is funny. Like who are you talking about? Well, the customer's fine. The customer's like weighing the guy's weighing his chicken, right? He he's he's in the gym pushing himself to failure. This is this is not a joke. Like this is like come on, right? And don't put if you put clowns in your product, you're laughing at the customer. Like I like like who would I don't know.

Don Grace 21:52

Think about it that way, but now that you think go back to the double R over here that you created. Uh, this product for distribution is there a Like uh you're going into GNC with it, direct-to-end user. Good point. Yeah. Your current stores, big international per push with certain players. What's what's the I mean, we're a company that's the plan over here, big deal.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

Yeah, we've started as a distributor, and you know, and after like being in business for 20 years a distributor, created a brand and a website and on Amazon. So, you know, I've just I've been doing this for a long time. Maybe I'm just a little look, it's just a it's a slower build, you know, to get things just right. You know. And so we've been in G and C for a year and with Edge of Insanity. So now we've come in with Vitals. So Edge of Insanity just kind of hits the bullseye. Hits the bullseye, lets everybody know you're there, right? But it's not for everyone. What vitals comes in, is it is for everyone. But I I wouldn't think that we would start out this way. We want to get your attention first. We're like, we're gonna hit you in the mouth, and then we're gonna come up and we're gonna put our arm around you and give you vitals. But basically, you know, we're gonna get your attention first. You know, we're we're the loud, you know, Metallica that comes out with you know, you know, ride the lightning and and all that, and then we come out with like this is the pop album, the black album for everyone. You know, it's like everyone can take this, you know.

Don Grace 23:15

It's funny that you say that fitness informant, for example. He was talking about your product, and he was saying, Ryan, oh my goodness, like the other product I can't take. Yeah, and then this product, he's like, This is one I can actually take. And he started going over the review, and he liked the product that sounded like.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

Well, we love that that first line, and it was in the article as well. And at first I read it, I was like, Oh, and then I'm like, Oh no, but it's authentic, it's organic. And right, I've known Ryan and become buddies with we have, and I'm a huge fan of Fit Butter. Shout out, you know, FitButter. Great product.

Don Grace 23:45

Ryan's Ryan's a huge advocate for us. But yeah, he's a sweetheart guy, and just a brilliant review that he did.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

I mean, it was he doesn't like Yohimby, and and that's the that's really the point with this, is that there's there's plenty of people who go, Yeah, cool brand, but you know, not for me. I I get it. Not everyone in my office drinks the edge of insanity, you know. Right. Um, for that matter. But this is that's the point of this product now that we've got your attention. You try this and you go, okay, those guys are pretty serious about their products. Like this thing is premium. That's that's what I want people to. They take this, they go, Oh, okay, I'm getting my my money's worth. I would rather spend you know 35 bucks to buy this than 20 bucks to buy some other product. I mean, you don't you don't want we don't want pip. We want dog we don't want pip, we want Dr. Pepper. I don't want RC Cola, you want Coca-Cola, you know, you don't want the the watered down kind of uh the shasta. We don't want that. The knockoffs, yeah. We don't want the knockoff. We want like the real deal, you know.

Don Grace 24:40

And you guys were able to get a good amount of content done too for the actual product and lifting and stuff in here today as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

Yeah, you can see the the the the pumps are real, real is rare. But that's great.

Don Grace 24:55

I mean, the whole reason why we built all this was for all of this to come together like this. You're doing the fulfillment with us beyond manufacturing, you're able to come down here, work out, do some content for your new product launch, and then we could sit down and have a podcast and kind of do a six-month review of where we were and where we're at now, which is everything's working.

Eric Simpson 25:16

I feel like this is all Don and Brandon's idea. For the record, I was against all of this shit. Yeah, yeah. You want to fucking podcast, I don't want to fucking cheat. Yeah, I don't want to do anything. I didn't want to do anything, but real is rare, man. I was wrong. It worked, it it ended up working out, so you know, kudos to you both for putting all this together. Well, this is real.

SPEAKER_02 25:33

I mean, because it does, it feels like we're we're all in one here, we're all working together here, you know. We're not working against each other, you're working, we're working, you know, for each other, and you know, you're um you're helping us make more products, you're helping us expand, you know. Um, and just with fulfillment and just being able to come here and shoot content and just the whole thing. It's just it's just one big, I mean well to see your growth over the years.

Eric Simpson 25:59

I mean, I I remember when we first started in the very beginning. Oh, I remember you can't you can't do this increase. The whole thing was a brick. And then sorry, we can't carry this, we can't carry that, we can't carry this. Like, you know, 2020, we gotta bend the tiles. You gotta bend, right? And don't break it, you can bend it though, right? And then now to see the quantities that you order now, it's it's it's a substantial difference from day one. So, you know, um super uh super happy for you guys on all that you've accomplished over the years.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

So yeah, we've um you know, just to kind of expand on that, I mean we've got four distributors in Mexico now. We've been down there a couple of times, and so that's what's exciting. Um we've had two customers in China. We've been in China for four years. We have we were over there uh March of 2025 exhibiting at a show in China in Shanghai. Um we've just since now they don't allow yo himbies so we have the no-yo.

Eric Simpson 26:57

No yo.

SPEAKER_02 26:57

The no-yo.

Eric Simpson 26:58

We had to change all of our documents to no-yo.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

And look, and and so what with Simpson Labs, you know, you you get us the free sales certificates, you get us the country of origin, you get us the COA, you get us all the documents, so we can do business in China. And so now we went from like running 5,000 of the no-yo, we're running 20,000 units, we're running 50,000 units of the no-yo. So we've got that version going to China. Um, we've got you know, our USA version, we we've got, like I said, four distributors in Mexico shipping product down there has been expanding. Um, you know, we're on Amazon, our website, we're in retail stores, and we're in GNC. And for a brand, you know, our products on our website, our pricing is high because we deal with brick and mortar. That has been our bread and butter from day one. And to build relationships with other store owners, it's their livelihood on the line. When you're dealing with a customer, they're just like, oh, you know, it's a new flavor, it's a new company. But when you're dealing with a retail store, like that guy's livelihoods on the line. So it's a big deal to build a relationship with a store owner and ship them like you know, a sample and and a unit, they bring in 12, then they start bringing in 48, 144 units, and then over time you're building this relationship. Yeah, like for me, that is real estate. I call it dealing with re retail stores is real estate, it's a very strong foundational thing. You just can't jerk out from under you, you know. And so I've chosen to really build the brand that way and have that solid connection. I mean, we want the consumers, trust me. I would love to do a billion dollars on our website, but dealing with like a majority of supplement stores individually around the country is what I want the most. Yeah. And that you just can't take away from me.

Don Grace 28:40

That's smart. That's an approach that a lot of people aren't even looking at nowadays. They're all direct-end user, so on and so forth. They use a distributor. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

We try to use a distributor, and after two months I pour all my product back.

Don Grace 28:50

Yeah. And if you're dealing directly, go ahead. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

No, no, no, I was just gonna say to uh to Darren's point, it's always been his bread and our his bread and butter now, especially with Psycho Pharma. And I and I tell when you're talking to a store owner, you're like, you're our bread and butter, you're our lifeline. And they look at the price as you know, $49.95 for Edge, and they look on Amazon and it's $49.95. So and they really appreciate that. And you know, there was a moment in I think like 2014, 2015, 2016 where brands were rolling out and it was online, and they were just selling stuff like you know, just whoring stuff out online, just cheap, cheap, cheap. And it was a little bit scary. And then the pendulum swung back to where brands like us came out and said, no, no, we're gonna go at this premium price, premium product, so that everyone has room. The customer's happy B2C, the B2B customers happy, everyone wins. But you know, it was a little bit of a you know, we had to stant, Darren Stan stood as well.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

You kind of have to make a choice, or you you wanna you want to do both, right? And there are brands that are just direct to consumer, they're not really in stores, or they go to big box and all that. I mean, that's their story. Our story is different, it's a little slower grow. I mean, for me, it's just that's what I know, and I'm just dealing with the stores is is vital for us, you know. No pun intended to be.

Don Grace 30:00

Yeah, I feel I feel like uh when they deal with the stores locally, these guys have been around forever, majority of them. They go into those stores, it's almost like they're going to the you know the doctors to get advice. And they've been going to these people for years. So, whatever kind of health elements they have, they're trying to get lose weight, put weight on, bigger, faster, stronger, they go to those stores for that information. And that's where they get that information, and that's where they get that direction on what they're gonna do, um, which is huge because at the end of the day, that's like it sustains our industry. Yeah, and and I I know as well as we we have a lot of relationships where we know there's a lot of parallels from the past, the people you deal with and I deal with. And these people, I mean, they've been around forever, they have all the same people working. It is great, isn't it amazing? You know, it's you you see him at shows, yeah, you talk to him on the phone, it's like nothing's ever changed. Yeah, really nice. It's uh Bob a cutting edge in Indiana.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

Yeah, you know, excellent, yeah. Brilliant guy, you know, written books, and like Bob is like he's that A plus account, and and other supplement companies, distributors that are watching this, they they know who Bob. We all know Bob is. He's the treasure, you know. And when you have a you know a long relationship dealing, doing good business with a guy. I mean, dude, you get a lot of those, like they add up. At the end of the day, we want to make a make money, support a family. But when you when you build a business, you have a relationship like that, it feels pretty damn good. It's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

Yeah, well, yeah, and that's uh was to go back, what I was saying is like the intuition was always like the pendulum is gonna swing back. Because to your point, people want to walk in, they have questions, they want their handheld a little bit. And in this industry, it's and so if that cut if that store provides that service, which there's been a lot of stores, unfortunately, who have come and gone, but like a Bob, an American Nutrition Center in Boston, Rock's Discount, like they train their guys. When you walk into Rock's Discount, get your Burbank, get Yoke to train, you know, SAR, you know, they're smart. SARB known him since he started, you know, is dropping off stuff to uh he's just started a website, and so I was just dropping stuff off to him, and now he's about this vampire. But you walk in there and and somebody walks up to you, and um, you know, it it's important, and they go, Well, what's your what's your goals? And then, well, that here's this product, this product, this product. And so, yeah, it's there's a real value, and uh this industry specifically, I think, is just one of those ones where the customer wants to walk in and and kind of like you said, ask questions.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

Oh yeah, it helps keep helps keep this thing alive. Otherwise, it's just like you just buy it, you know, it's just like robots buying products and robots going about and there's no interaction, there's no information really being exchanged, you know.

Don Grace 32:28

There's a story to the products, you're selling premium products, everything's premium. There's nothing ordinary about any of the products you sell as well too. So for them, being able to sell a product that's a lot more higher-end, higher end packaging, and then it has the map pricing as well too, it's it's a winner all the way around. Therefore, has price integrity, therefore, customer's gonna come back, therefore they're gonna want to sell the product as well, too. So we all win. That's how I look at that ecosystem, right? That is an ecosystem that that is the winning ecosystem that nobody even talks about anymore.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

Yeah, and then with retail, I mean, each store is uh obviously different, but like speaking of Sarbit, get yoked, like one of the things where we're like, hey, can we get some better shelf placement? And he was like, and again, he's like family, you know, sweetheart guy. Um he's like, it doesn't matter about the placement. He's like, all I want you to do is make videos explaining each of the products, and um, we'll do a little like spiff thing. And he five or six X's business within a year, and it was just having that relationship, that connection, and asking, like, what do you need for us to help the brand move? Because we're seeing the other part of it is service, like that that type stuff.

SPEAKER_02 33:34

Oh, absolutely. They go up videos, sample like the sample packets you guys make for us. Like the stick packs are great, but those big fat sample packets, they have all the information on the product for us. Yeah, we're we're still like with Edge of Insanity or with Vitals, we'll do that. Um estate on the packet. Yeah, the real estate on the packet is is key, so people can understand like what the thing is. It's not just a hydration, dump it in your water, it doesn't really matter or whatever, right? I mean, this is like, no, dude, it does matter. You better read that ingredient before you take it, you know. Then we will be Thunderstruck.

Don Grace 34:10

That'd be a great hat.

SPEAKER_02 34:12

Oh yeah, why don't you do that with your thunderstruck?

Don Grace 34:14

Oh, yeah, it's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:15

Thunderstruck's gonna get a refacing, and you guys will you got a couple ingredient changes and packaging changes. Um but um yeah, you know, to the point with just like we're dealing with retail stores and the ecosystem like you talked about, and it's difficult because you know you you you feel you have that fear of missing out. Well, why don't we do that? But you can't just lower your prices on your website or or on on Amazon, and we're you know, we're exclusive on Amazon, like we we control that. Like I you know, it's like I I go to the you know the fight to protect that, and that and you have and dealing with the retail store is an integrity. Um but uh you know what do you like about vitals?

SPEAKER_00 35:01

You know, my favorite thing is just again, I uh we've been going around like two tools, one rotation. So we have edge, it doesn't cannibalize edge of insanity. Um so you have a pre-workout that you can take every single day, like let's just get after it. Um but it's it's smooth, it's subtle, and then you get in, you start working out, and then you don't want to leave. I mean, obviously, we went through the formula and like the technical aspect of it, but I'm just talking like an anecdotal, like how I why I love it is I get into the gym and then I don't want to leave. I'm like, oh man, it's been you know two hours, and it's like I just wanna because like you know, the music sounds better, the DLPA. If you look into that ingredient, really DL phenylanine is it's quite a um interesting and awesome ingredient that's no one's using in a pre-workout, just like no one was using GABA.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

Um, we should we should say something like full I don't know full disclosure, but I'm just like fuck it, you know, I don't care my anonymity, you know. So I don't drink. He doesn't either. Yeah, so there are ingredients we kind of go, well, I wonder what that does to us. Yeah, you know, yeah. So we're we're really ultra sensitive when it comes to like certain ingredients and you know, the dopamine thing, the focus, the feel-good, more sensitive than than other people may be. So, but that also seems part, I think part of it. Like when I it's not a workout, like it's a lifestyle. Like I do this every day. I want to enjoy it. I'm not just after, or otherwise I'd just drink a cup of coffee, but that's that's not what I'm doing. It's a it's a whole like ritual of getting after it, getting the music, and and giving it everything I've got, you know, and there's a ritual that goes into that. And I want to drink something that's gonna make me feel fucking great. Yeah, you know, you know, you've got the mind muscle connection right there. Like I'm not feeling like I'm not drunk at a concert, right? I got my my sober buzz on for my workout, and I want to get after it, and this is my fucking happy hour. Mind and muscle. For me, I it is like at the end of my workday, it's my happy hour, and that's when I drink edge or vitals and I go in the gym and I've got seven dust or corn or metallica, you know, slim. You know, you know, in the morning it's more of like the intellectual prog music in the afternoon, it's like smash your face in rock music, you know, and then I go home and I got three kids and a dog and a wife, and I'm really pleasant with everyone, you know. Yeah, so that that's for me, that's my uh how to not be insane. Yeah, no, no, no coincidence.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

I was I was thinking about this last night because we have these young studs working for us, and they're they're all about getting big and lifting heavy. And I've done that, I played you know college football, and um, but you know, uh Brandon and I were talking earlier, and it's like I'm more like endurance, high reps, I like to box, so like you know, cardio and again high intensity, but um yeah, 10 years sober. So um when you we start talking about kind of that thing, it's like I I want to look good, I want to be healthy. I eat, breathe, sleep, uh, eat, breathe, and sleep cycle pharma, but it's also that's my hour six days a week where no one's messing with me. I'm getting a workout in, and it's that's my that's how I get that's my high. You know, my high is taking now vitals or edge of insanity, and afterwards, that's my you know, my way to, you know.

Don Grace 38:10

That's your special time for yourself. That's like important. Without without that, like for me at least, if I don't work out, I'm I'm off. Oh yeah. If I don't get a workout in, it's like night and day.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

I become a workout in, I'm like, I don't think we're unique. I think that like everyone's like that, that they get after it. Whether it be first thing in the morning, like those guys, I respect. You know, guys get up early, drink it, you know, scoop an edge at four in the morning, get after it, like like those guys, you know. But like just, I mean, we're all well that way. That is like our time, you know. And we don't, I mean, it's it's not sustainable if it's something that you begrudge doing, you know. When you it's like that inspirational part of your day, and you get after you may not always want to, but when you when you when you get that workout in, like what it does to your mental health and and your spiritual health, it's it's huge. You know, it's like, well, what do you what are you lifting? What are you working so hard? You're already in shape, but no, but it's this, man. Like I I need to take care of this because every day I don't know what's coming at me and I can't snap. You know, I I have to be there for people, right? You got people to count on you, and you you gotta be tolerant and you gotta be there. And if if you're snapping, if you're jumpy, you probably need to go to the gym. Go work out, go for a run. Yes, you know, I'm just saying. You don't need you don't need you know to go to the doctor and get a prescription. You just need to go to the gym, dude.

Don Grace 39:32

I'm I'm with that. And I think I think doctors need to start prescribing a lot more of the gym rather than prescriptions. Yeah, like okay, let's see you work out for a freaking hour and see what it does to you. Exactly.

Eric Simpson 39:42

You know, yeah, wait, you're feeling better, everything's better, you're sleeping better. Yeah, yeah. My wife too, she's up at 4 45 every single morning and on her way out the door to the gym. And if she misses the gym, she gets so mad at herself if she misses one day. Like, that's her psych work. That's it, man. It's happy moms, you know. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

Yeah, I just see moms, really. Especially moms. Oh, yeah, with kids, especially moms that have a kid like mine.

Eric Simpson 40:06

Yeah, little Dallas cat.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

She is he's very, very hyper. Gotta respect the moms, man. The moms are like, that's what makes the world go round. I agree. Take care of mom always. She's working out.

Don Grace 40:19

I'm like, good, great. I'm going to do another wife. Perfect. You know, you know, it's always a good day when mom's happy and she's working out in my house.

unknown 40:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:29

Married guys, we know. Happy wife.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

Happy life. Yeah, it's crazy. I just got through walking pneumonia, which I'm looking for. Fully clear. Oh, yeah. No, fully clear.

Eric Simpson 40:41

Having that mic. Having the mic.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

No, fully clear. I've been clear for I've been clear for over a week. No, but I had about a week and a half where I two weeks where I didn't work. And I was just like, Oh, oof. And the doctor's like, just I'm I first question I asked him was like, Can I work out? He's like, Yeah, just go take it easy. So I took a week, but anyway, you know, the point is just like without that, you really start to realize like how special and important it is. But um, yeah, I'm fully clear, guys. Good. I got that. Well, glad you're feeling better. Yeah, glad you're feeling better. Chest x-rays, everything.

Don Grace 41:10

Everybody's giving you the look, right? Yeah, yeah. Wait a second, kind of looking through me, baby.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

We like to think of it is that we create products that help motivate, help motivate us towards a better quality of life, you know. That's a great way to you know what I mean, to put it together. If that's what it is for people, not everybody needs some motivation. People can crawl up out of bed, have a cup of coffee, and go work out. But like for us like humans, earthlings, it's like a little motivation's nice, you know. You know, and find a product that you like, whether it's ours or any any other brands that Simpson Labs makes, it's just pretty much all of them. I wish. Um, all the good ones, anyways. You make all the good ones.

Don Grace 41:49

Thank you. We appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02 41:51

Yeah, but you're I mean, just you know, I'm just kind of capping everything with just your um your your group, your family, your team that, you know, with fulfillment and everything that's really helped us grow. This six months has been just a total game changer, a life changer. Um, you know, getting rid of a warehouse, having that empty nest feeling, putting all the trust in what you guys have done and and helped us like our our orders are getting a lot bigger, and we've got new products, we've got vitals, um, we've got a hydrate we've been working on for too long that's coming. The formula's been done. Your part's been done. It's the damn label. We've got too many cooks working on the label.

Don Grace 42:33

We hear a lot of that. I do say this on podcasts, I've said it a couple times, but I think that will be the next thing that we get into is probably labels and you know, I'm sure they can buy that piece of equipment sometime in the future because appliance like yourself, right? It's a huge bottleneck. Go ahead. That's what you were saying.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

No, I mean, Brandon, hey, um, our label, here's the supplement facts. Eric just sent it over.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

Yeah, Darren had to put uh the designers in timeout because we kept looking at it, looking at it. It's like, okay, this thing is going in timeout for like two weeks. And uh we just had to take a because again, it has to be perfect, it just does. I mean, aesthetically, but also the formula.

SPEAKER_02 43:08

We like having everybody involved. Uh, I that's the part I like, especially the young guys like having their their input is is key. I don't, you know, I don't know everything. Um, I know a little. Um, but those guys, the combination. But at times, sometimes you get too many cooks and it starts bouncing around. You're like, all right, wait a minute. Time out. What what worked? Like, let's go back a couple of products ago. What worked? Okay, let's do that. He knows a lot, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

You know, he's a very humble, humble boss, master chef book of knowledge, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 43:37

Man, you know, open mind, open ears. Yeah, you know. A lot of concert.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

Yeah, boss first, you know, boss first, but you know, mentor, brother, friend. So it's like this just this is great. And that's what we have with with everybody. I mean, he's got you know, three of his boys that work at the office and two of their friends that were here chanting, you know, so it's or four of their friends that that are working in there. So it's just Yeah, they're not there because they're friends. It's the fit button. They've earned their way up.

SPEAKER_02 44:02

They've really earned their way up. Really super smart, hardworking guys that are really good after it and are consistent and you know. Yeah.

Don Grace 44:08

You've built a great family, community, brand, like the whole the whole, the whole thing. It's way more than just a brand. It's a community. It's a family. And like you've said, everybody's earned this.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

We're in the middle of it, man. We're in the thick of it. I mean, there's brands that, you know, you look, there's a lot of great brands out there that have blazed the trail for us. You know, I could name over and over again from Gorilla Mind to Raw Nutrition, C Bum, Bucked Up and like Um Alpha Lion. There's a lot of great brands that are out there that have done stuff, you know. Um we are our own identity, we're our own culture, we're different, you know. I'm not a bodybuilder, obviously, you know. Um, but in 28 years of banging my head against the wall and trying to, you know what I mean? You kind of figured out you know, we're doing we're doing it in our own way, and all ultimately that's what what's what it's about is like we have something that's different than everyone else. We're not the same, we don't look like or act like any other supplement brand.

Eric Simpson 45:02

Would you say you identify yourself as psycho? We identify ourselves as psycho.

Don Grace 45:07

Absolutely. You have an American gladiator as a business partner. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 45:11

I was just gonna say that. I mean, not so I'm sorry to cut you off. No, not at all. I get we get rolling, we get excited, but no, but it's like everything has come together so organically. And all the guys in the office, Eric Bugenhagen, the one and only who is you know, make sure we have a brother, family, like he's so like ingratiated in this thing, and he's in Florida, obviously. But um the thing is, is like he he connected with Darren very early on, and they just became his input has could greatly contributed to the culture and the vibe of the of the brand.

SPEAKER_02 45:43

When I say we're not like any other brand, a lot of it is with Eric Bougenhagen's influence, like he's not in the office per se, but like the our identity with like the the marketing. You see, you see our marketing ads that we do with Eric, he's got this here's the pitch, what we're trying to do. And Eric has this whole like director's like written up thing, and then you see the end result and you're laughing, and you're just like, This is cool, like that's who we are.

Don Grace 46:09

We're not you know what I mean. It's better once it gets to him. It's like, okay, great, you know he's gonna take that ball and he's gonna run with it. And by the time it's done, you're like, Wow. Yeah, no, there is no so lucky to have this guy on our team. There is no other thing. Eric and myself get about lots of people here. There is no other boom hugging. Yes, go for it. Put it all out there.

SPEAKER_02 46:27

Like, don't be afraid to like make a mistake or whatever. You got it in your head, man, go for it and see what happens. He's gifted too, Eric. I mean, he's he's really an entertainer.

Don Grace 46:35

I was gonna say, he's got that big personality, but and he's a great guy, too. I've never heard one bad thing about him in my whole entire life.

SPEAKER_02 46:43

He's a legit guy. His knowledge of every exercise, machine, and and workout you can do is is incredible. His knowledge is incredible.

Eric Simpson 46:53

Yeah, um, you know, I gotta say, as much coffee as that guy drinks, which I've never met anyone in my life drinks. Why aren't we doing coffee flavors? Yeah.

Don Grace 47:01

Yeah. What is going on? We'll do like a mocha joe. We'll have some mocha joe.

SPEAKER_00 47:05

We had a meeting uh this past week and you get him involved. I think he had stopped coffee for a little bit. So he he had coffee, and then he's like, I had a great day. Then the second day he did 10 scoops of like folgers or whatever. He's like, I didn't even feel what happened. But I was a you know, just back to what you're saying, there there's there's no other Eric Buggenhagen, and and it's just he is such like uniquely, and and we were talking before we started the pod, but you know, D1 Wrestler, Wisconsin, and then you know, the WWE American Gladiator, but you know, his personality, his persona, there's there's no one else like him, which again um just builds this thing up and grows it. And he and again he's family, and that's I keep saying that and it sounds cliche, but it's just true. Um he's just like it was a marriage meant to be. It just took a little took a little while. You know, him and Darren became friends and they were connected, but he was in WWE, and then he got out, and then it was like he is psychopharma.

Don Grace 48:00

Yeah, yeah, he's the poster boy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:02

You all obviously you all are, but he's well fitness and music and all that stuff, it goes hand in hand. You know, I know like I see you know, Eric's got the Nirvana shirt on, and just like and that's another part of it too, with us. It's like you know, I'm a guitarist, I've been playing mu music all my life. I love all kinds of music. I love metal music, you know. But like I said, I even like a little country, you know, some of it. Nothing wrong with that. Trying to go to sleep. I know, just trying to go to sleep. You're on a long drive, and you've got to be patient. Country music is a good thing. Depends who you're listening to. It depends who you're listening to. Listening to Morgan on a long drive, you might get a speeding ticket or wreck into the guy in front of you. Listen to country music. You know what I mean?

Don Grace 48:41

Yeah, yeah, for everyone you're definitely gonna slow down a bit there.

SPEAKER_00 48:44

Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy, and you're talking about just a good guy. He's such a humble family man, but also you go to the shows, so we're at the the shows and he shows up, and there's 200 people. He'll say hi to everyone. Oh, five minutes. So interactive. Oh man, he'll give people time, he'll give people 30 minutes. We have to like ask the people, like, hey, can you speed it up? Because he's just his his heart is in his like with his fan. He he appreciates his fans so much, and um, yeah, just it's there's no um there's there's no like mask, there's no like you know, it that that's him. He's just humble and authentic and unapologetically Eric Bugenhagen, and which is why we love him. And we're unapologetically psychopharma.

Don Grace 49:25

Yeah, that's uh that sounds like a perfect ending right there. We really, really, really, really appreciate you guys coming out today. This was this was you know, I couldn't script it any better. We didn't script any of this, by the way. This is all real is rare. Uh so thank you guys so much for coming out today. And like, like I said, I love it when a plan comes together.

SPEAKER_02 49:45

So from we really appreciate everything you guys have have done for us. Thank you guys so much.

SPEAKER_00 49:49

Absolutely. Thanks for coming down, Don, Eric, Brandon behind behind the scenes.

unknown 49:53

Keep it real, yo, got to keep it real y'all. Keep it real, yo, got to keep it real y'all.

SPEAKER_04 49:58

Keep it real, yo, got to keep it real y'all.