SPEAKER_00

All right, welcome back to She Commerce where power women and real talk collide in the CPG world. Ooh, and we are fizzing for our guest today. You're always fizzing. Stop it. You literally have stars and hearts in your eyes for literally every guest.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, but today I'm really fizzing. I mean, no, seriously. But folks, can you actually tell who has the sleek panther energy and who has the excitable husky energy in this relationship? Anyway, back to our awesome guest. She's built brands, shape leaders, and does not do fluff. Elizabeth Nibart Donovan joins us on SheCommerce today for a no-filter conversation on power, purpose, and modern commerce. But more on that later. Because I'm still thinking of Matthew McConaughey. I'm gonna go alright. Let's gown down with some tea spilling, friend. How's that? Love it. That's great. I love that.

SPEAKER_00

She you're just so dynamic, Yangi. It's like every day a new surprise.

SPEAKER_02

I practice that. I practiced.

SPEAKER_00

Well, this is our weekly roundup of what's happening across commerce, media, retail, leadership, and of course, the women that are making power moves. So let's start there. Melissa Grady Diaz has been named CEO of Measured Wellness, which is a personalized healthcare and wearables company. The move was reported this week, noting that Melissa is former CMO of Cadillac and has also built trusted brands across MetLife, Motorola, and Jaguar Land Rover. Ooh, fancy.

SPEAKER_02

So fancy. One of my favorite cars. I could ever afford one. This one, however, is giving us a lot to unpack. Because, yes, it's a CEO appointment, but it's bigger than that. And the reason it's bigger than that is because it's also another example of a marketing leader stepping into the top seat. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00

Which we love to see because for so long, marketing has been treated like the go, go make it pretty department, which, first of all, rude.

SPEAKER_02

So rude.

SPEAKER_00

But what Melissa's move reinforces, and this is something we've been talking about a lot here, is that brand leaders they understand trust, they understand consumer behavior, they understand that emotion, and they can use that for demand creation and the long game. And in healthcare and wellness, that absolutely matters. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02

Measured wellness focuses on making healthcare more personal, which is what it should be doing, right? Which is what healthcare should be. Using technology, wearables, and human support to help people stay well beyond the next appointment moment. Their announcement, their announcement describes the model as extending care beyond the exam room through data, programs, and human touch points.

SPEAKER_00

Such an interesting pivot from cars to care and from that luxury positioning to personal health. I think that the common thread, though, if you were to try to find one between all that is trust. And whether you're asking someone to buy a super expensive vehicle or adopt a wearable, change a habit, a lifestyle, or believe in a new model of care, the job is still starts and ends with earning that consumer's confidence. Completely.

SPEAKER_02

And let's call out the she of it all. A woman with deep CMO experience is now leading the company. That is not just a career headline, that is a signal.

SPEAKER_00

Marketing is not a soft skill. Brand is no longer just decoration, and that consumer understanding is not optional. This is CEO level strategy. That's the T. And honestly, we'll grin to that. All right, well, let's go to some industry T, if we will. Instacart announced they're expanding their ads manager to retailers. Now, for in in commerce, we know that retailers can activate campaigns directly in their Instacart Ads Manager, expanding the same self-serve advertising platform that has been used by many CPG brands to its retail partners.

SPEAKER_02

This is a big one for retail media, right? Because historically, a lot of the self-serve muscle has been brand-side. The CPG is launching sponsored products, optimizing against ROAS, trying to win the digital shelf.

SPEAKER_00

But now Instacart is saying, retailers, I see you. Come on in. The dashboard is for you to use as well.

SPEAKER_02

And the first capability they're highlighting is self-serve retailer promotions. Retailers can create and manage basket level offers, target high-intent consumer segments, and measure performance in real time, including redemptions, total sales impact, and new to banner growth. That's a big deal.

SPEAKER_00

That's a lot. Yeah. Let's break down the silhouette here then. This is not, or at least it doesn't feel like just another ad tool. This is about retailers wanting more control over marketplace growth.

SPEAKER_02

Correct. Retailers do not want to just be the storefront. They are media owners, data owners, audience builders, and increasingly performance marketers.

SPEAKER_00

Yep. And for CPG brands, this changes the dance a little bit, right? Because now you have brands running campaigns, you have retailers running promotions, and Instacart is sitting in the middle with this closed loop measurement and high intent shopper data.

SPEAKER_01

Which sounds amazing.

SPEAKER_00

It is.

SPEAKER_02

It sounds amazing until every team is optimizing in silo and the shopper gets hit with six versions of by now.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you're absolutely right. And this is where we need to call BS on the idea that more tools automatically equals better outcomes. More tools can only help if the strategy is coordinated between them. That connectivity that we we're going to be talking a lot about today.

SPEAKER_02

Correct. The opportunity is huge, however. Better retailer growth, smarter promotions, stronger baskets, and more relevant shopper engagement. And that is the crux. Relevant shopper engagement. But the risk is fragmentation. Brands, retailers, platforms are all chasing their own metric.

SPEAKER_00

So the winning question question therefore becomes are we optimizing for the click, the basket, the trip, the household, or the relationships? Oh, hashtag swag idea. We should put that on a mug. Yep. And that's where SheCommerce always comes back to the same point. The real ROI isn't just about clicks, it's about connection.

SPEAKER_02

And boy, does our guest fulfill all of this and then some. Today's guest is one of those women who doesn't just participate in the industry conversation. She helps to set the agenda. We are joined by the brilliant, charismatic, and endlessly insightful Elizabeth Nibauer Donovan, a commerce leader, powerhouse speaker, podcast host, industry connector, and let's be honest, the kind of lady who makes busy look wildly unqualified as a descriptor. Elizabeth was recently recognized in the drums Commerce Media Power 100, which celebrates the leaders redefining the commerce media landscape. And if you've ever heard her speak, you know exactly why. She brings that rare mix of strategic sharpness, commercial instinct, emotional intelligence, and just enough spice to make her room sit up straighter. She is also the co-host of Unlocked Podcast with Austin and Elizabeth, where she gets under the skin of the evolving landscape of media networks, diving into innovation, sales, leadership, technology, measurement, and the client and agency perspective, which obviously we respect very deeply. And beyond the titles and accolades and microphones and main stages, because as if that wasn't enough, Elizabeth is also a busy working mother, navigating the beautiful, brutal, brilliant juggle of ambition, leadership, family, and showing up fully in a world that still loves to pretend those things should fit neatly into separate boxes. Spoiler alert, they do not. And that is exactly why this conversation matters. So today we're getting into it. Leadership, influence, motherhood, ambition, and what it really takes to build a career and a life with intention, impact, and absolutely no apology. Elizabeth, welcome to SheCommerce.

SPEAKER_00

Woo! Wow, there needs to be a claptrack there. My God. Welcome.

SPEAKER_04

Jackie, Christina, thank you so much for having me on the podcast. The minute I saw you in my inbox, I said, let's do this.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I need to bring Jackie with me wherever I go. I think it could be my ringtone in the morning.

SPEAKER_01

For your kids, especially.

SPEAKER_04

And listen to it every morning when I'm tired and I know I gotta get one child to violin, the other one dressed and ready, and she does not like getting up to start my day. We all gotta get out the door, but Jackie, that's my new ringtone. Thank you. You're welcome. And hey, Elizabeth, I do cartwheels too. Just saying. I love it. That's amazing. Well, thank you so much for having me, ladies. I'm so excited to dive in.

SPEAKER_00

You're excited to have you.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you so much for coming on on board, Elizabeth. So let's get started. Let's start from before LinkedIn and before podcasts and motherhood. Who were you before everyone needed a PCU?

SPEAKER_04

Well, we could go way back into when I was my kids, my children's age. I actually talked a lot. Could you believe it? I got in trouble for talking a lot. And even in kindergarten, they had to move my seat around. And now I tell them, well, I was just practicing for my future job.

SPEAKER_00

There you go.

SPEAKER_04

Miss Adler, she put me in the corner all the time.

SPEAKER_00

No one puts Elizabeth in the corner.

SPEAKER_04

So much so in high school French class, I talked so much that Mr. Dilworth put me outside the classroom. Mr. Dilworth. Mr. Dilworth. Well, Mr. Dillworth. I see clearly I remember these two teachers because they tried to silence me. But I thank them for that because I understand that there's a time and a place to use your voice. And boy, do you do that well.

SPEAKER_02

So that's uh that's a great sort of story of the making of Elizabeth. Is there any part of the in-between times from then to you know now where you know maybe you grieve a little bit about about your old self, your pre-crazy busy self, where you still had maybe a little more time for you?

SPEAKER_04

I do that daily. I am constantly grieving a piece of me. And I think some others can resonate with this, especially after you turn 40. You're missing a piece of your independence. So I've been actively really trying to make that happen for myself and keeping time for myself, for my friendships, and the things that I like to do. And that's really something that stemmed from my dad's passing two and a half years ago from pancreatic cancer. So life is short. We have to also take care of ourselves and make sure that we're being fed with love and light while also giving love and light to everyone.

SPEAKER_00

Well, we we know the juggle is real with uh and we need to talk about that, but not like the filtered Instagram version of, you know, all the balance and the chaos, the organized chaos, but the real one, the the calendars, the logistics, everything that goes on behind the scenes that then plays a toll on the mental load and the guilt, the mom guilt is real, right? We talked about that. So, what does that juggling act look like for you in a normal week?

SPEAKER_04

It's really funny that you know we're having this conversation. I'm not giving you the PG version. I'm actually gonna go dive into what it really looks like because people always like, how do you do it? I would be exhausted. I can't manage it all. It's not easy. I'm not going to sugarcoat it. The I have a five to nine before I start my nine to five. And let's be real, what does that consist of? I wouldn't change it for the world, but I have two daughters and they're at the age where they're in grammar school and one going into middle school. They need me a lot. And I also have a husband who works the night shift. So what does that look like? Chaos. If you're not organized, you're going to fail. So for me, you know, it's it's scheduling sleep for myself at night, making sure that I go to bed when my children go to bed at nine o'clock because I'm exhausted. Honestly, I don't even have to try to fall asleep or read a book. I I just go right to bed. The schedule is crazy because between violin practice, softball, play practice, every other day there is a new exciting cheer day. You know, actually, I made a mistake today. Today, or tomorrow is you have to wear a certain outfit. Someone didn't wear that outfit today. And that's okay. We have to stop feeling guilty because we're juggling so much. We're working in a modern society where this system is not built on today's work balance with family. We are working in 1950s and before, where you only need one household income. Right. But that's not the case anymore. Both parents are typically working. So what does that look like? You may not have parents that live close by. You have you may have parents that have passed away. So it's important you make your own village too. I rely a lot on my neighbors, and my neighbors rely a lot on me. So, hey, can you pick up XYZ? Because I'm working late. And I'm like, sure, I'm traveling this week. Can you make sure you get the girls on the bus? And also, I have, you know, older nieces and nephews and my mother around. So they help around like one or two times a week. It's really chaotic. The schedule each week is not the same. And then I love to travel for work. I'm busy seeing clients, and that also makes a change in everyone's schedule.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I feel like we're living kindred lives here. And, you know, you touched on this already, but first of all, shout out to Girl Squad. Everyone knows my three girls. And life's natural melatonin is the chaos that we live. So same thing, hit the bed asleep right away. But, you know, you mentioned this, the support makes a difference. And not everyone has that support around. And I think for women, it's it's harder. It doesn't come naturally to ask for help, at least for me. I know it it's I always I don't like asking people for things. So, you know, how do you make that support work for you versus, you know, that sounds good on paper, but like how does that happen? And, you know, what's the one thing maybe you're constantly dropping and that you've stopped apologizing for? Like you you mentioned, uh, I messed up. They were supposed to bring this to school. I mean, I've done that. They're supposed to wear a costume, I send them to dance class, they're in their dancing. I'm like, you're a dancer, go with it. Like it's fine. And we all, we all make that you can't you something, you know, there's too much, too many balls in your hand that you're juggling.

SPEAKER_04

I think I stopped apologizing for a lot of things lately because I realize my value and what the most important thing is, my core, is their health and happiness. And if that stays strong, then I'm doing a good job. Because we're going to miss things. I'm never going to miss important occasions. Like my daughter's graduation's coming up the week of can. I have a lot of speaking engagements that people have asked me to join. I'm going to miss it. I will have FOMO, but my daughter comes first. And I will be at her graduation, and there'll be another can.

SPEAKER_00

We'll miss you, but there will be another can.

SPEAKER_04

There will totally have FOMO. People are already sending me, like, oh, we wish you could be coming. And do you know anyone to take your place? I'm like, of course. This opens up other seats for other women to be a part of things. So I'll utilize my network to secure other roles for others.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. That's amazing. That is absolutely wonderful.

SPEAKER_02

So we talked a little bit about grieving your past self. We don't talk enough, I think, about the sacrifices that we that we make. Not just in time, but identity and energy and optionality. The quiet grief, if you will. The things that you choose not to do exactly as you've just said, because something else matters so much more in that for that period of time, in that season. How do you uh I suppose separate sacrifice from failure, perhaps, in terms of you know the emotional tax of trying to have it all? And do you ever question any of your choices daily?

SPEAKER_04

And I think that's completely natural to question. But if you have a mission, and for my mission, I want my main goal is to make sure that my girls grow up in a place where they don't have to ask to have a seat at the table, that they're just part of the table. Women make up 11% of CEOs. So I go to work every day so that they can see that you could have it all, but you can't really have it all. We speak of that silent grief. For me, within the last few years, I'm really focusing on making sure everyone else is doing well. But now I have to remember, just like when you're on a flight, you have to put your oxygen mask on first. So, what does that mean to you as a mother, as someone who's taking care of family and so much responsibility at work? To me, it means I have to make sure I schedule time for me. So tomorrow I'm taking a day off to go get my yearly annual checkup because it's important. And I would have not prioritized that years before. But it is so important as women as we age to make sure we're going for our mammograms, going, making sure our teeth are doing well, getting our yearly, but also I'll have a few hours in between when they get off the bus. I'm gonna do something for myself, maybe a massage. I don't know yet, but I made that time for me because I need that to fill my cup. And that to me now is a non-negotiable.

SPEAKER_02

That is so important. I uh I I'm gonna hold my hand up here. I I don't always do that. You know, I don't go for the checks, I don't go for the smears, I don't, I don't you have to always I always think I'll do it tomorrow. I I scarlet a horror a lot of my health checkups, you know. It'll be fine. I'll do it tomorrow. I'll do it tomorrow. And and I I shouldn't do that.

SPEAKER_04

You should not end the type of leader that I am. We know doctors are typically only open nine to five Monday through Friday. Those are work hours. Yet again, we're talking about the way our society is built. So I make sure that my team is also taking their doctor's appointments. And, you know, they're like, I'll make up the time. I'm like, you're already working late so many other nights, and so am I. It's okay. Go to the doctor, get your test.

SPEAKER_00

And like you said, if not for you, for your daughters, so that you can continue to be in their life and see all the important moments as they grow up. That's important.

SPEAKER_04

So message to anyone listening, make sure you're going for your mammo, your yearly teeth are important for your health as well as hard health comes from your teeth.

SPEAKER_00

I I know. You heard the PSA here.

SPEAKER_02

Elizabeth says, everyone.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. That's your mammogram. All right. Well, this narrative that some people think motherhood limits you or can limit you, or it can define you. I think it's it's a choice, right? Of what you do with it. There's also how society and potentially your company sees that. We're gonna call BS on all of it. All right. We know that choice it starts with you and it's the actions you take. So, what does the choice actually mean to you now? And how has that definition maybe changed? How have you redefined what success looks like for you seasonally? I'm sure the 25 version of you looked at success a little differently than today. Can you talk about that a little bit?

SPEAKER_04

Yes. And I'll also talk about how I perceive motherhood as an early mother compared to being in the trenches now where as my daughters are aging, because I feel like sometimes in my early motherhood I hid being a mother. Like I never brought up my children. So that I don't like because once someone throughout my career was like, when I showed a picture or something, oh, you showed the picture too many times, or you know, it made me feel a bit insecure. I think a lot of the challenges that we're facing, and I don't think too much in 2026 now it's getting better. And I now that we have parental leave, I think it's important to say that men also are facing this as well. Like they do want to take the time off for paternity leave. They want to help out at home. So we also have to give them the kudos for wanting to do that and speaking up about being an active parent. There's no reason why we can't show up as our authentic self, just who we are. But have I felt that perhaps being a mother may have in my earlier career, like in the last decade, it has changed the perspective in the last decade for sure in corporate America. I think um more companies are more inclusive, they're understanding about. Being a parent. And I think because of COVID too, a lot of people got the insights of what it's like in other people's homes because everyone was on video and how hard it is. So I think that led to more empathy across organizations for those who have may not have had children, but everyone's going through a journey or some sort of difficulty. No one goes through life without having some sort of like challenge, right? So I think about that all the time. Someone might be going through something and I don't know about that, or they're not sharing that with me. So we always have to be kind to one another, but it has definitely changed in the last 10 years. I'm vocal about priorities at home, but I'm also very vocal about all the things that I have to do at work. And my children understand that, and they understand that I have to travel and that some nights are going to be late nights because I'm entertaining clients or out presenting. I think both sides of the coin are extremely fruitful, but they're also could be challenging at times because some people don't want me to leave the house.

SPEAKER_00

That's a good problem to have, right? To feel wanted and needed. It's it's funny, you actually struck a chord because I I remember early in my career, I won't name organizations, but it was with my first daughter. And I had, I was such a proud mama. I wanted a daughter all my life. And I put a bunch of pictures when I went back to the office. I only had the 12 weeks then. So I kind of plastered my little cubby with pictures of her. And I had a female boss, and she came up to me and said, I think it's a bit much. You know, that that sat with me. I kind of forgot about it until you just said that. And you know, it's like those feelings all over. Like, what's a bit much? That I'm celebrating being a mom, that I'm missing my daughter while I'm here working, you know, the majority of the day, away from my three-month-old. You know, what part of that bothers you and why? You know? And I wish I had more of a voice then because I I ended up taking a few pictures down because she was my boss. But now, yeah, same as you, very unapologetic. Like I talk about my daughters all the time. And if you don't want to listen, then stop listening. You know, but it's part of that.

SPEAKER_04

That's really sad that you know, the lack of empathy from that leadership. And I'm sure just going back to work after only three months, because also when I had my first child, I only had the 12 weeks. But luckily for me, I had an amazing women CRO who was a single mother, and she let me work from home. This is early 2014, work from home an extra month or two. Um acclimate myself back into working as a mother. So kudos to Marie's Marie for allowing me to transition because she realized at that time that's not enough time. That's wonderful.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I mean, to add to your story, actually, Christina, mine was mine was something else completely. I was in the process of having IVF because I'm an older mom. So I had a process of IVF. The first time it didn't take, and I, you know, without well, you may not know, but with IVF, you have to go to the hospital all the time, you know, lots of appointments and all that stuff. Had to do that. And then it didn't take. And, you know, there is that that grief that you went through all of this and and it didn't happen. And then I went through, and then I was going to, I was getting ready for the second round. And uh my female boss said to me, Well, how many times are you planning to do this? And I was like, Well, this is the second time I get three goes, and then we might try one more privately, because here in London, the NHS, depending on where you are, you get either one or th two or three goes under the healthcare system. And she goes, Many as it takes. And she goes, Um, but surely this just tells you that it's not gonna work. So why do you want to waste time on it? Uh, bear in mind that this this this lady had two very healthy, beautiful children, um, and uh and you know, everything went fine first time and and all that. And um, and I just sat there and I and then at that point I was like, oh my God, is she going to make life difficult for me to go through this? Because this is another stress on top of the stress of trying to get pregnant. And I remember thinking, because she also was very frustrated at the number of times I had to go to the hospital. And it got to the point where I was taking my laptop with me. And whilst I was waiting, I was working um in between my appointments. So I was never offline. And uh, and I and I sat there and I was like, oh my God, is this part part of the reason, the stress that she put me under that it didn't go right the first time? And then uh before I fully started my second cycle, I had a new boss, this wonderful man who was so family-oriented. And and I remember saying to him, I'll take my laptop, I'll be online. And he looks at me, he goes, What is wrong with you? You're going through something that's difficult already. You go, you do you, and when you're ready to come back into the office after you've gone through everything, then you come back. You have I have no expectations of you doing any work while you're sitting there waiting to go through all of this. And I just remember remember, you know, my eyes filling with, oh my God, he's wonderful. And to date, I still say, You're the reason. And I and I introduce him to people as he's the reason I got pregnant.

SPEAKER_00

Not like that, though, not like that, right?

SPEAKER_02

You know who her baby daddy is. Stop introducing me like that.

SPEAKER_04

This podcast is totally different than I thought it was gonna go today, but thank you. And I also had to go through fertility treatment for my second child. That's why we could also talk about the crazy things people say.

SPEAKER_01

Odd, yes.

SPEAKER_04

That could be three podcasts long. But one thing people would always tell me, because my children are five years apart, why are they so far apart? You know, people would say, Are you gonna have another one? So one time I actually said, I had a miscarriage, and yeah, that's why, you know, they're not close in age. I'm still trying, but it's really none of anyone's business. That's why I tried I only told a few close friends when I was going through a fertility treatment because people say the wildest things.

SPEAKER_00

And assume things like like they did in in those cases. And I think to your point earlier, Elizabeth, you don't know what someone has going on. So be kind, be empathetic, and seek to understand if it's if it's really something you need to, you know, that's affecting you. Completely. But both thank you both for sharing that part of of your journey.

SPEAKER_04

It's a very difficult journey. It's not only stressful on you, it's stressful on your spouse. It's stressful really on your body too, all the hormones that you're putting in your body that your body's not making naturally. So anyone that's going through that, my heart goes through because it could be a very long and grueling process and it takes a toll on your health, your mental health, especially.

SPEAKER_00

All right. Well, we are gonna pivot.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, let's pivot. But I think these conversations are important to have because they're they don't we don't really have them.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, it's a great conversation, and uh, I think women need to hear it too, so that it becomes more normalized. But we are gonna switch to talk about commerce media, talk about your bread and butter. So you were recently featured in the drum, as Jackie mentioned, talking about the future of commerce media. And what I loved is that you didn't just play the buzzword bingo, which was kind of the focus. You you really translated those buzzwords into actual business problems. Like what does this mean? You know, what do you need to do?

SPEAKER_02

And one thing, and and one thing that jumped out was your point with there being 240 plus plus retail e-commerce media network, right? The next phase may be less about consolidation and more about collaborating. So, so let's get real, Elizabeth. Where does the industry need to go right now in terms of better collaboration? It's all about the customer.

SPEAKER_04

And I'll say this, and I always say this: you need to know your customer. You need to know how to retain your customer. Retail, commerce media, financial media, when you're thinking about it, this is all a secondary layer of top-line revenue for these companies. They already have an amazing brand and a service that they're providing to their members and their loyal customers. What can you do to make it additive to keep them and have them coming back, but also you want them engaged, right? Many, many times, and everyone loves the word consolidation. Yes, there will be consolidation, but the way that we have to go to market is to make sure that you're partnering with the right technology partners, the right content partners, because commerce media is so many different channels, right? I don't want to just see an ad that doesn't make sense for me. So, of course, I'm always going to say the first important thing you have to do is be data ready, identity at the core, not only for your top-line off-site or omnichannel monetization, but for your merchandising efforts. Because you're having many marketing messages that you want to tell. You want to share, like especially if you are whether a travel media network, right? An example would be you have a lot of things going on within your business, your hotels, your flights, and you know how you service your customers or your partnerships with the credit cards. If somebody already has the credit card, you don't want to service and show that ad again. You want to make sure you know who that person is in real time and give them what they need throughout that purchase journey. Or just to enhance that experience for them. You want to make sure that they're data ready and that they feel good about working with you and purchasing your goods or services.

SPEAKER_00

Elizabeth, can you give us the 30-second definition of what it means to be data ready?

SPEAKER_04

Sure. So many of the media networks have loyalty programs. So think about Costco, for example. Shout out to Mark. He's doing a phenomenal job over there. Um, you know, they know their customer. They know where they are, what they're doing, what they're purchasing. Wouldn't you rather see an ad that's relative to their past shopping habits than just sponsoring something that they've never bought once? So you're really thinking about your customer from the lens of we know you, we care about you, and we want to make sure that you're having a great experience end-to-end. So layering that data component, bringing in the first party data elements for not just marketing, but just to target them correctly while they're with you, whether it's on site, through the app, etc., it's so important for you to retain your customer, but to make sure that they're getting what they need. It's it's that natural layer of customer service, really.

SPEAKER_02

Making it personable, right? Personalized.

SPEAKER_04

It sounds easy, but many companies are not focused there. They're focused on other parts of growing their media network. And it really should start at identity at the core.

SPEAKER_02

It all starts with data, right? The drum piece, Elizabeth, called measurement the thing that nobody agrees on, which feels incredibly accurate. You also said that universal standards matter, which amen to that. But the ecosystem is too complex potentially for one magic model, right?

SPEAKER_04

I agree. We're at a point where retail and commerce has changed the game for measurement. But I also agree many of the channels are not new to the industry, and we have lots of standards across video, web, email, etc. Start building some of those channels with those guardrails, and then you'll be able to service your clients in a way to provide them better measurement. And it's true though, many of the omnichannel solutions have been around 20 plus years.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And CBG brands, we think about measurement across all those channels, right? Owned, offline, in-store, all of it. So in your experience, what's one of the biggest problems that are mistakes with measurement that you see companies still making? It's gonna go back to the data.

SPEAKER_04

You're not data ready, you can't tie that back to measurement.

SPEAKER_00

And so maybe they're they're blaming the campaign or the activation when it's really a data problem.

SPEAKER_04

I wouldn't call it a problem, but I would say that when you know your customer and you have guardrails around what you're trying to solve through those KPIs, you'll have more insights to provide.

SPEAKER_00

Make sure you know what you're measuring for too.

SPEAKER_04

I think you need to be very upfront. Why are we running this campaign? What are we looking to measure? There's so many third party partners too that could help you with that as well.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And it's I kind of know the answer to this, but do you think that we are overcomplicating incrementality? Or do you think it's genuinely hard because of that? The customer journey is just so fragmented.

SPEAKER_04

I don't think it's hard. I think we're overcomplicating it. I think it's another buzzword.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_04

What do you think the next buzzword's gonna be after AI?

SPEAKER_03

Let's make up a word. What do you think? I'm gonna turn it on to you, Elizabeth. What do you think it's gonna be? I'll have to get back to you on that one, but I'll definitely follow up.

SPEAKER_00

Stay tuned. Well, what we're hearing is whether we're talking about the commerce media or we're talking about career, the winners are the connectors, those that are connecting the data, those that are are connecting, you know, in terms of the community, connecting in terms of managing it all and and having that balance, the people who know how to bring the right data, the right partners, the right rooms, and the relationships together. So we want to talk more a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_04

That's exactly why I I took this role here at Axiom, because I've always worked for either the brand side or the publisher side. I wanted to be able to service the industry and help them rise because there's such an opportunity now that we're Omnicom to connect the technology and these amazing partners that we have through commerce, through the lens of first party data. And that's why I sit within the Axiom family of Omnicom because media networks run on connected identity and then everything else is connected through that. So it's so important for me to sit here right now to help the networks, 240 plus of them, and a few coming that are not in verticals that you've ever heard of before. So stay tuned on that.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, love it. I love I love a juicy hint, a juicy teaser.

SPEAKER_04

New verticals with great first party data.

SPEAKER_02

Hey, you know, I'm part of the Omicron family, so after this we'll chat sideways, right? Absolutely. So this brings me uh back to something more personal. Um, and and in terms of, you know, the fact is Elizabeth, you're known as a phenomenal connector. You co-host Unlocked, which means you're constantly creating space for other people's stories too. But what strikes us about you is that the connection isn't tactic. It doesn't feel like a tactic. It feels like this is how you lead. Would that be would that be fair to say?

SPEAKER_04

That is very true to say I've always been like this. I don't know. I just love people. I love getting to know people. And I love, you know, now that I'm in, you know, have been in a leadership role, I like to see the best in my teams, in my family, in my friends. So I connect them in ways that are going to, you know, help bring a little ease to their lives or educate them in ways that I can. Just like I've had many mentors to support me. I like love to give back to the community. For me, it's important to really know my team and be in the ins and outs, but not a micromanager. But everyone has something that keeps them up at night and their why. And if you know your team's why, they're gonna perform better, they're gonna be happy to go to work, they're gonna be great collaborators. And I always say, you're not a leader until your team is leading other leaders. I love that. And becoming a leader, basically. So a good leader makes new leaders.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely do. That's a t-shirt. That's on a t-shirt. It's on a t-shirt. We're gonna print it. Yep.

SPEAKER_04

I when I started, I was like, oh, this is so nice. I have to represent.

SPEAKER_00

It's almost like we should bedazzle them and put it on the back of a denim jacket.

SPEAKER_04

Oh my god. I am seeing Austin for lunch today, so um I tell myself. I'll tell him you said hello, but I will absolutely bring that up to him. I don't know if he's gonna wear a bedazzle, but I really will.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. All right. Well, you've you've talked to us about having your own personal board of directors. This is a concept we we actually spoke to another guest about uh a few episodes back. Uh, these are people you go to for perspective, for not just to be your yes team, but to to really give you the hard truth, support sometimes, the occasional get it together girl, right? How did you build that circle and how has it shaped the way that you show up as a leader?

SPEAKER_04

Many years ago, I heard something from Simon Zenick, if you if you said how you say his name. If I could meet you, just if he's on this pod and if he's listening right now, I would love to meet you because I I listened to a lot of your videos. But he said once that he connected with a friend because they have a pact. And if you tell that friend that you really need them, you just need eight seconds to tell, you know, get off your chest. And that really resonated with me. So let's be real here. It has not always been an easy journey in the last decade to get to leadership as a woman. And for me, I have created a personal board of directors, and I have multiple of them because there are people that you can share your true self with that are not your coworkers, they're not your peers, they're not your family, but they're people who could understand, just like we were talking about our journeys today, and that you could tap into them and say, I need eight seconds to say, this is what's going on. Because 90 times out of a hundred, we're making it worse in our head by just festering and replaying a situation in our head. But if you talk to someone that you could trust in your board of directors to say, this is how I feel, this is how I'm going about it. Perhaps they're not going to give you their advice on how they do it, but they give you the space to share how you feel. And then most of the times you work it out yourself. You just need someone to listen to you, but the the true ones will say, Oh, this is a little tricky. Maybe you should do this. Or, you know, sometimes you just feel tired and you're exhausted and you're mothering and you're working, and you just need someone to say, like, Jackie's opening. I'm gonna play that. You just need that uplifting situation where it's a little boost of confidence.

SPEAKER_00

You got this.

SPEAKER_04

You got it. So Simon Senek, he said it that eight seconds, and it's really it's true. It takes not too long. Hey, can we drop can we hop on a call really quickly or a video chat? I think it does wonders for women's mental health and brings community together. Your board of directors doesn't have to be just women. I have, you know, many male mentors as well.

SPEAKER_02

Agree.

SPEAKER_01

Agree.

SPEAKER_02

Wow. All right. Well, gosh, Elizabeth, just listening to you is just is just a masterclass of how to deal, how to grow, to how to reframe. It's it's it's it's fabulous.

SPEAKER_04

So I think I think, you know, any what I would want the audience to take for themselves as they're listening. One, make time for yourself, even if it's an hour a day, go for a walk, go to the gym, go to your doctor's appointments. But two, is just be be authentic to yourself and your community. We can't do everything at a hundred percent, but we can surely try our best to show up for people. And I think that's the most important thing. So don't have any guilt if you're missing something or um, you know, you feel like you forgot something. We're only human. We have to be kinder to ourselves first.

SPEAKER_00

Yep. So you heard that here, all you women that are ambitious, capable, exhausted as well. You don't know perfection. You don't have perfection. You there it takes a village and you need some boundaries to manage all of that. Um, so you heard it from the wisdom of Elizabeth that has joined us today. But before we let you go, we have to do our lightning round, which is just very quick answers, top of mind. So I'll let Jackie kick us off.

SPEAKER_02

I'm excited. Let's go. All righty. Personal board of directors, who are you calling first? The hype woman, the truth teller, or the strategist?

SPEAKER_04

I'm always calling the hype woman.

SPEAKER_02

Jackie's gonna get a call.

SPEAKER_04

I'm always calling the hype woman. You know, my husband's like, you call Rosemary all the time. Like it could be 10 p.m. at night, and because she's in Wichita, Kansas, we worked together at Acuweather a long time ago. And I said, Because no matter what I say, she agrees with me. And sometimes you and I are getting in a little disagreement. I want her to be like, yes, Elizabeth, you're right. Me that's like she'll give me that answer.

SPEAKER_02

All right, pivoting. Commerce media buzzword you would ban forever. Incrementality, interoperability, or retail media flywheel.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, I love interoperability. That's like my favorite thing. That's what I feel makes the engine run. The word I dislike has like it's just like a corporate jargon as it is crow, walk, run. I can't stand that. Can we stop using that?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I agree. Yeah, way too much. So we actually stop using that. All right, we're done. We won't use that, we promise.

SPEAKER_02

I knew you'd ask this question. I knew you would. Ask this question, Christina.

SPEAKER_00

It's my favorite question. What is your hype song when you're getting ready for a big presentation?

SPEAKER_04

All I do is win.

SPEAKER_00

All I do is win, win, win. What? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

When you're prepared, you know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00

It's a good song. I love that song. That is a hype song for sure. All right. Well, Elizabeth, we cannot thank you enough. And with every episode of She Commerce, we're building a growing network of leaders and advocates. And we ask that our guests take the pledge to pay it forward, amplify women's voices as you already do, and continue to help shape the future of commerce. So, Elizabeth, will you take the pledge?

SPEAKER_04

I take the pledge every day, all day, and forevermore. It was such an honor to be with you both. And I'm so happy that you reached out to me. So thank you so much for having me on your podcast.

SPEAKER_00

Elizabeth, honor it all ours. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02

Honor and privilege has been ours having you as our guest. And with that, we end with this reminder as always bold brands, fierce women, one sister. I love it. Thank you, ladies.