SPEAKER_04

Welcome back to SheCommerce, where power, women, and real talk collide in this CPG world.

SPEAKER_01

I'm Christina and I'm Jackie. And today we are coming in hot because boy, do we have a fun episode in store for you.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, it's a good one. So much fun. We're talking about one of the most fascinating dynamics in modern leadership. Two high-flying careers, one household, zero chill.

SPEAKER_01

Because let's be honest, running one demanding career, that's hard. Running two in the same household, next level. It's logistics, negotiation, diplomacy, and occasionally it's just survival.

SPEAKER_04

Absolutely. It's also our first time doing this with another couple. Oh, wait, that's it.

SPEAKER_01

I I look, I know we're close, Christina, but we're not a couple. Lucas can't appear with that. So would Andrew. Yeah, we are. We are a power couple.

SPEAKER_04

But we're gonna be joined by another power couple that are living that reality every single day. And it's gonna be a blast. So stay tuned. But before all that, can we just can we just take a minute to say in less than 48 hours, we're gonna be in can baby. I know. And I can't you believe it?

SPEAKER_01

We we can do that because you banned me last time. No, no. No more banned can puns. I can't believe you used a can pun. There you go. I see what you did there.

SPEAKER_04

I know.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my gosh. I feel woefully unprepared after our last conversation because you have 25 outfits, 15 pairs of shoes, and 35 swimsuits. And I have five outfits, three pairs of shoes, and and I haven't packed a swimsuit yet because I can't find it. So tomorrow I'm panic buying. So thanks, Christina.

SPEAKER_04

You're welcome. But I I also saw that my la luggage allotment is less. So I might have to repack, leave some things behind. But I I overprepare. We know that. And you know, you escape by by the skin of your teeth. That's just the dynamic that we are. These are facts.

SPEAKER_01

But given that we are going to be there on a semi-vacation as well, should we get some pool time too? I feel that we owe it to Can to pull it up at least a little bit. I mean, is the Pope American?

SPEAKER_04

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_01

She went there. So, Christina, what are you really looking forward to at Can and who? And by what are you really looking forward to? I'm not talking about the flavor of Rose.

SPEAKER_04

Well, that was my first answer. Yeah, I I am looking forward to obviously just being in the middle of all that energy. I've I've seen it from afar for years. So I just want like feet on the ground, take it all in. I'm looking forward to speaking with some of the industry's bests. We have quite the lineup plans, so stay tuned for our series from CAN. I am looking forward to connecting with some old friends and colleagues, obviously, seeing our dear friends, the CPG guys. I'm looking forward to riding on a Vespa and you know, learning how to ride a Vespa with a passenger on the back. And feeling feeling the hot sun on our skin and smelling the ocean, breeze, all of that. Being on a yacht, come on. I mean, there's so much to look forward to. How about you?

SPEAKER_01

Well, for me, Cannes has been on my bucket list, Priscina, for 11 years. I refused to go to Cannes on holiday because I wanted this to be my seminal moment, if you will. And I'm just so stoked that we're going. And I'm stoked that you and I are going as us, as she as she commerce. And I can't wait to catch up with some of our Cannes friends and some of the folks who are coming through. And I can't wait to fangirl, because you know I'm a gonna fangirl. You know this. And I just want to soak up all that supercharged creativity and you know, like osmosis, but kind of make it marketing, you know, and and and definitely pool time and getting my feet wet on the sand. If there's sand. I think there's sand. Who should be sand? I would think there's sand.

SPEAKER_04

But uh, yeah, I the same. Like looking forward to the connections, the conversations that we're gonna have. Um, because we're pretty cool, but there are some awfully cool women that we're interviewing next week. And we should we should definitely call the series. What should we call it? Can Chronicles? Can Canning and Ken? Can Canning and Can. Ooh, that that does have a ring, but no. Yeah, it's a tongue picker.

SPEAKER_01

You know what our vibe is? Can confidential, darling. Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_04

It's like mysterious, but what's gonna happen?

SPEAKER_01

It's a little bit Kim Basinger in LA Confidential.

SPEAKER_04

All right, well, before we go to our guest plural, yes, we we have a duo as we've hinted at. Let's fill some tea. So, first up, we want to say congratulations to Sylvia Torney on being named president of the Sephora collection, one of my favorites to shop at, and definitely one of my daughter's favorites. Sylvia has spent nearly two decades at L'Oreal helping brands create products that have earned a place in millions of people's daily routines, both men and women. And throughout her career, she has understood that the most successful brands aren't just purchased, they become trusted parts of the consumer's everyday life. So, congratulations on the promotion.

SPEAKER_01

Amazing, amazing work, Sylvia. We're so happy for you.

SPEAKER_04

And Jackie, do you want to do our next one?

SPEAKER_01

No, you do the next one, and I'll do the T bit.

SPEAKER_04

Well, the next one is Shannon Blakely. We'd like to congratulate her on her new role as chief brand officer of the Ford Motor Company. And I love this because I feel like automotive, you don't necessarily put a woman in the head spot there in your mind, but yes, there there are benefits, and she is going to rock that new role. So throughout her career, Shannon has helped shape some of the world's most beloved and iconic brands from Whirlpool to Dunkin' Donuts. These brands are more than products because they are definitely ingrained in people's everyday routines, their family traditions, and of course, some of their best memories. I know for me, you know, having those bringing donuts or munchkins into school to celebrate birthdays or for class parties or just because. And now she's gonna bring that expertise and instinct to Ford Motor Company and help shape one of America's most iconic companies. So congratulations. We're watching. We know you're both going to do amazing things.

SPEAKER_01

It is phenomenal. I just I I I love this story so much. Now, here's some seriously hot, almost breaking-ish news, Maronucchi. The UK is banning under 16s from social media. Oof. Microp. Mic job. This is not just reshaping today's digital childhood, but it's rewiring the entire retail media playbook. So the TLDR is the UK government's new rules to protect children online are clear. Tighter age restrictions I can't say it clearly. My it is too difficult for me. Let me start that again. Tighter age restrictions, accountability on platforms, and less exposure to harmful content. On the surface, a safety move. But from a commerce lens, it's a seismic shift. And why this matters for retail media is that the next gen consumer just went dark for now. Brands have spent the last decade building lifelong loyalty earlier and earlier. Roblox skins, TikTok holds, influencer unboxings. I mean, if you remember, Lauren, when we were talking to her, I said that there were there was a plethora of tweens at Cannes because they were all uh creators and influencers. So now, if the under 16 audiences disappear from social media platforms, the earning funnel collapses. Translation, awareness strategies need a full reboot. Christina, how do you think this is going to affect retail media?

SPEAKER_04

And and they're following suit because didn't Australia do this like recently? I think they I think they were 13, but I have to check that. Okay. All right. Well, you know, I think retail media becoming the safe zone for kind of youth adjacency. And I I guess where, you know, compliant, regulated, high intent audiences still exist. I mean, that's gonna look very different, right? Like retail ecosystems, first party data logged in authenticated environments. Retail media is suddenly becomes the channel for brands wanting proximity to family decision makers without regulatory risk. So parents are gonna become the new battleground. You know, when kids can't be directly targeted, influence is going to have to shift upstream. So think more family basket optimization, um, pester power replaced with parent persuasion, the art of parent persuasion, or more, you know, contextual commerce around those adjacent parts of youth living like school, health, everyday essentials, et cetera. I think the real ROI isn't going to be about clicks, it's going to be about creating those authentic connections, but instead of with the actual children, now it's going to be with their gatekeepers, the parents.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. And another side effect, I believe creators will lose their level of agency and access. Retailers are going to gain greater control. So if influencer, influencer ecosystems shrink for younger audiences, retailers step in as media owners. So your Tesco's, your boots, your Walmarts, your Amazons, they don't just sell products anymore. They own compliant attention. So I guess our POV or my POV would be this is not personally, I don't think that this is a re-restriction, but a redistribution of power from platforms to retailers, from kids to households, from influence to intent, and you're still building retail media strategies like it's 2022. Yeah. I mean, sweet cheeks, you are already behind. Sweet cheeks.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, exactly. Everything you just said, Jackie, I think, you know, if you're already behind in that way, or if you feel like you're not, you need to start designing those retail media strategies that are going to speak directly to the household, not just that individual you're targeting within the household, as well as really dive into that first-party data, but do it ethically and visibly be transparent about how you're using it. And that is how you're gonna build trust as much as transactions. Because the brands that win, they're not gonna be the loudest. We say this all the time. They'll be the ones that parents, parents, feel good about choosing. So does this make retail media more powerful or more responsible? I guess it's I don't know. It's gonna be one of those wait and see moments, and we're gonna be here to wait and see along with you and and give our give our perspective as we always do.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I'm really interested to see how this pans out and how this plays out. And who follows suit.

SPEAKER_04

And who leads the way.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. Now, Christina, did we tell everyone that we're going to be podcasting at the Women in Amazon Business Summer Retreat? We did, right?

SPEAKER_04

I think there there was a teaser out there. There may have been some announcements, but we are we are so excited. Well, well, Jackie, because you're gonna be there physically. It's right in your backyard. I'll be there virtually, uh, dialing in, but bringing that SheCommerce energy on site from the retreat. We're gonna have a lot of smart conversations, real talk as always, and probably a few. Are we allowed to say that on air moments as we do?

SPEAKER_01

You're not gonna be there, Parson. I'm gonna be bereft, but there's Prosecco.

SPEAKER_04

So you'll survive. Yeah. Well, so stay tuned for those updates, those behind-the-scene clips, and all of the sisterhood energy because this is exactly why SheCommerce exists. We're here to amplify women in commerce, create those real authentic conversations, and build the network as we go. This show's mission is rooted in authentic conversations, expert insights, actionable strategies, and most importantly, creating a supportive sisterhood for women and men navigating CPG and commerce. So now, without further ado, let's introduce our amazing guest to SheCommerce. So let's start with Mandy because we're absolutely not glossing over the powerhouse on the other side of this partnership. Mandy Silverman is sharp, astute, and balancing a serious career with the very real demands of family life. And if you follow her on Instagram, Mandylicious, which we highly recommend for both content and just the name alone, you'll see the full picture. Not just the career, but all the chaos, the humor, and of course the honesty of what it actually looks like to juggle it all.

SPEAKER_01

And because the Silvermans are overachievers, Mandy is also in the process of bringing out a book that's launching on September the 1st. What's it all about? My first love. Bread. More specifically, holla. So high performer. I was waiting for that. So high performer, hala creator, soon-to-be published author. No pressure, Danny, by the way. No pressure. Now let's talk about Danny. Because this one comes with a reputation. Danny Silverman is what we would call a quiet disruptor. The kind of leader who doesn't need to dominate the room, but somehow shapes exactly where it's going. And also let's just address the headline because it would be irresponsible not to. We at CheCommerce, Danny, are officially dubbing you the Nostradamus of retail media. Because back in January, while the rest of the industry was obsessing over shiny platforms, new buzzwords, and let's be honest, things they barely understood, you calmly predicted that Rufus would get eaten by Alexa.

SPEAKER_02

Boom.

SPEAKER_01

Microp. Just casually, no drama, no LinkedIn dissertation, just prophecy. So either you've got a crystal ball or you've just understood commerce better than most people in the room for a really long time.

SPEAKER_04

Yes, and what we do know is this Danny hasn't just built a career in commerce, he's built a reputation around seeing all round those corners and into the future.

SPEAKER_01

But here's the part we care about most. Yes, he's strategically sharp. And yes, he's ahead of the curve. But ask anyone, and I have Danny, who's worked with him, and the same thing comes up again and again. He is one of the best leaders I've ever had. And in this industry, that's not a common thing.

SPEAKER_04

No, it's not. It's very rare. And Danny is known as a true ally to women, not performative, not surface level, but in how he hires, how he backs, promotes, and really shows up when it actually matters.

SPEAKER_01

So today we're unpacking all of it the predictions, the leadership, the allyship, and the real life behind the power couple label. Danny, Mandy, welcome to SheCommerce. Thank you so much. I'm a little emotional. One of these days we'll make someone cry. That's what we that's our end game.

SPEAKER_02

No? No? Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Just me then.

SPEAKER_02

There you go. He's got it. Yay! Yay! You did.

SPEAKER_01

All right. Before we get into leadership and commerce, we need the origin story. So we're gonna do a lightning round, you guys. Okay. So uh who made the first move?

SPEAKER_05

Say that I think I flirted with you first. But maybe you flirted in a different way.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Well, back then I had a different way of flirting, I suppose.

SPEAKER_05

But he was sort of a jerk.

SPEAKER_00

I was a song. So you know, I knew everything there was to know and was very proud of this.

SPEAKER_05

So but to be fair, you were the first boy I met at college. So I mean, I just I was went all in with you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And all in followerships on the I mean, my next question was first impressions, but hey, Danny, you were a jerk.

SPEAKER_00

That wasn't what you said originally. No, I said first impression was. I guess it was.

SPEAKER_05

Yes, but he had very nice eyes.

SPEAKER_00

Nice eyes. Very nice eyes. He had a beautiful smile, still does.

SPEAKER_01

And that has not changed.

SPEAKER_00

So who's more competitive? Um, I it depends on well, I wouldn't say we're competitive with each other. So I think in general in life, maybe you're more competitive, but you're a quiet competitor. Yes, nobody knows it. She's not outwardly competitive, but inwardly she is.

SPEAKER_05

That's what motivates me. Silent competition. I like that. Okay, if I did this, then I've got to be able to do this.

SPEAKER_00

If you're not racing on the wheel, somebody else is racing ahead of you. So it does kind of feed that competitiveness as well.

SPEAKER_05

I don't know who I'm competing against. I'm mostly competing against myself. Like I don't there's no other people quite like my platform on social media. Just competing with myself, how to make myself, you know, help more people, come up with more crazy recipes. Yeah, that's I think more and more craziness is probably like how can I be peak crazy today? But yeah, like Christina achieves that frequently.

SPEAKER_01

So who apologizes first?

SPEAKER_00

So okay, sorry. Part of maybe these like dialogue is sorry. She's always saying sorry. We actually got to the point where I was like, you don't need to always say sorry. She's like, you gotta let me say sorry. Like some people you just gotta let them do it. So not necessarily because you are sorry, because your natural inclination is to apologize.

SPEAKER_05

I don't want, I just want to make sure that you know that I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00

But I will tell that if in the rare instances, like the three times in our 2017 that we've argued I was the first to apologize.

SPEAKER_04

That sounds about right. That's how three arguments.

SPEAKER_01

Wow. Wow. That's like for for for me, it's like 29 days about 20 30 arguments. So who works longer hours versus who talks about it more?

SPEAKER_00

I think I think I probably end up working longer hours. I probably always have.

SPEAKER_05

Oh, yeah, every day.

SPEAKER_00

But Mandy spends an incredible, I don't think if you're not a creator, you can't understand the amount of time that goes into creating content and the amount of time it takes to think up the recipe, film it all day long, and then the hours it takes to piece it together with all the graphics and words and everything like that, and the second it takes to post and find out whether or not it's gonna work. In that regard, she puts in a lot more hours than I do. You get more we get more focused for sure. You have zero ability to focus.

SPEAKER_05

Because you'll start at 6 a.m. and you'll go all the way until like 2 a.m. sometimes, like with just intersectional. Then you talk about work.

SPEAKER_00

That's true.

SPEAKER_05

It's okay though. I mean, it's good, it works well. But I you don't like talk about it, you don't complain about it. That's just your natural being. Yeah, I complain. Like, I don't like if when I'm making fala, like if I had to make like like a whole bunch for something, usually like I'll be like, ooh, that was a long day because it's just like physically exhausting. I will complain, like have Jimmy says, like the hours going into put in any content that you see. It's a less than 30 seconds for my um my style. But with the algorithm doesn't pick it up, then I will complain about it for like three weeks. Like, I cannot believe I worked so hard on the cookie dough stuffed crust called pizza, and it did not show it to anyone. Like, you'll hear about that. It's true. It doesn't happen mostly then.

SPEAKER_00

The one thing we learned, I mean, this isn't what we're talking about, but social media is completely unpredictable. The Instagram algorithm is uncraftable. The things that should go super viral will die on the vine, and the things that are like wouldn't even think about it, go crazy.

SPEAKER_03

If only it's a mess with your mind, we know how to crack that. Yeah, all right, so much easier.

SPEAKER_00

We'd all be on a beach right now. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Totally.

SPEAKER_03

Wait, we are gonna be next week.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, right, and can.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, so pretty there. That's gonna be a point. Mandy, what is the most Danny thing that Danny does?

SPEAKER_05

So there is a saying that now I say it all the time. My family says it, our children say it. It's called pulling a danny. Because when you pull a danny, it is when you magically are like you figure something out, you solved it. It's being a hero. He's like he is constantly saving the day. Like, I don't want to say, like, not it's not, it's it's not in like a self-serving way. Like he genuinely wants to to fix something. Pulling a Mandy is when you burn your cookbook on your stove. That's called pulling the. Oh my god, I burn it. Pulling a Danny is he like surprised me with an induction oven. Look, Mandy, you'll never have to worry about burning your cookbooks again. See, he's it's like a pattern, like, but he like will help the kids, you know. It's just the most Danny thing does is save the day.

SPEAKER_04

The rest of you print the shirts. Let's go. That's a good shirt.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's so much. Oh, you guys, you're cooking holes.

SPEAKER_00

I think I have a I think it might actually be a real term, a hero complex, but it's not like in a negative way, it's in a positive way. I just that's just I'm inclined to like somebody's sad or upset, I want to save the day. It actually is can be a problem at work because it's just like you can't make everybody happy all the time. But I want to.

SPEAKER_05

You're very subtle about it too. It's not like it's like like I it's a long story, like I had white. Wanted a nail polish with a certain name and didn't come. That's a long story. But he like took it away and he found like a little teeny tiny label. He like secretly stuck the little label on the bottom with the name, and I was like, he fixed it. He just fixed it. Like it was like it takes one second.

SPEAKER_04

It's like he talked about and romantic. Look at you, Danny. Maybe we should have a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01

I'm gonna beat my husband up with this.

SPEAKER_05

More than once, people have asked him to teach husband classes. There you go. There's a market for it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, yes, attainable goals, though. Oh my gosh, I love this. Okay. Now let's get into it. Two careers, one household. Divide and conquer, or divide and debate. How do you balance the demands of work, family, personal life without feeling like you're constantly dropping, dropping a ball?

SPEAKER_05

It has to be divide and conquer in communication because you have to have all you can't divide and conquer without appropriately communicating with each other. If I say Deanny, we have 3,000 things to do, or Dani says, Mandy, we have 4,000 things to do. We have to communicate which ones we're gonna be able to do by ourselves, which ones we're gonna have the other person do, and which ones we're gonna actually need to work together to get done. So we can wait and when we're gonna do it, like a timeline.

SPEAKER_00

Mandy will put appointments on my calendar. I need you in this hour to help in the kitchen, or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_05

To help untangle this necklace.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Very good at that too. That's also one of your secrets yes.

SPEAKER_06

I'm gonna put that on my card.

SPEAKER_03

People need that. Really impressive.

SPEAKER_01

I love it. So, so with with that communication and and and I guess collaboration, what is your non-negotiable?

SPEAKER_00

I would say, like early on, you know, it's I think it's probably like my fatherly advice that I got from my father, something like that is, you know, don't go to bed angry, don't leave the house angry. And uh, we generally held to that. It's a little bit more trite, but the one that I think we learned our way into was it's not a competition because it's never the case where one person's working harder, one person, because early on in in relationships, you could be like, I did the dishes, I did the laundry, I changed the diapers, I put the kids to bed. The least you could do is blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_05

I never said that.

SPEAKER_00

No, she never said it. I've seen this on TV shows.

SPEAKER_05

I was like, wait, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_00

I'm like, I've been at work all day and I had to deal with this and this and but it's not a competition. Both of us are giving 100% of ourselves to each other and the family and the house and to our careers. And we like along the way learn to just accept that and say, this isn't a competition. It's not who's doing more, it's about how do we get done what needs to get done.

SPEAKER_04

I love that. And it's the ebbs and clothes, right? Because there will be days, it's not all equal every day, let's be honest, that that you do put in extra or maybe help out more than a regular day because that that's what's needed, and you just do it. So I I I think that's an important lesson for all of us to remember completely relationship advice from She Commerce.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, I I I swear to God, you guys there's a market. There's a market.

SPEAKER_00

I always feel bad when I travel for business without her, because especially when the kids were younger, then you were truly on your own.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Especially when I was full-time in the office when the kids were little.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, because we don't have any family in your head.

SPEAKER_00

10 hours on yourself alone.

SPEAKER_05

At least, yeah. And then I went into labor with uh our oldest, and he was out of town. Like, and there was no one else around.

SPEAKER_00

She was five weeks early.

SPEAKER_05

Whatever, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00

It was the last business trip. She was five weeks early. It wasn't my fault.

SPEAKER_04

Did you get back? Oh, this is what happened.

SPEAKER_00

I made it back for the delivery. I helped it. I missed all the labor. I got there right for the delivery.

SPEAKER_05

You're like, and he went in. They all raced down to get him. It was very dramatic.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god. I was gonna ask what does support actually look like on a bad week, but I think you guys you guys just have it.

SPEAKER_02

She's like in like that.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Mandy's incredible at listening to me. We walk the dog every day that we can. It's usually a three or three plus mile walk. And honestly, most of it I'm talking about work because she's my counsel and my sounding board, and my biggest problems we talk about. And by the time we get back, they're solved.

SPEAKER_05

Makes you feel so much better. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And like, and vice versa. When Mandy's got stressed and she's upset, I like to think that I'm fairly supportive and helpful. Yeah, you're better.

SPEAKER_05

You do the class. But you're also like very able to like physically help. You know, it's like, oh my gosh, I'm so overwhelmed because I have to like figure out how to like invoice these people or like uh clean even like even cleaning a dish like or figuring out dinner, like those sorts of things that normally I would take on because you're doing something else, you would take on just to help or figure out, help me figure out by myself. And he pulls a Danny, he pulls a danny every day. There's zero days where you don't take me. Yeah, zero days have you been together?

SPEAKER_00

Nine years since dating. Yeah, 26 years. Wow. Maybe in December, and our 26th anniversary is in two weeks.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, well, congratulations. That's incredible. And feel the love so much. And it's so much. It's like day one. It's not a jerk anymore, right? All right. Well, let's let's talk about maybe parenting and through the years, how how that may have evolved. So your oldest is now a senior in college, right? And Aiden is about to graduate or has graduated. What's one lesson your kids taught you that you could never learn in a book? No leadership course could ever teach you.

SPEAKER_00

You truly don't know everything.

SPEAKER_04

You don't.

SPEAKER_00

And part of that is children will always, especially in the teen years plus, believe they know more than you. They really also they always have a different perspective. I feel like one of the hardest parenting lessons for me was like you go into parenting, you're like, this is what I liked about my parents and how they parented me, and this is what I didn't like. And we're gonna fix that. We're gonna be the best parents ever. Somewhere along the way, I learned that that mindset is a generation off. So by the time we got to parenting, times had changed, TikTok had arrived, right?

SPEAKER_05

But also they're different people. What we needed from our parents, they might not need from us, or they might not want from us. And that's it's so easy to be not self-centered, but when you're a parent, it sort of is. It's like you're trying to do what's best for you and your family by learned experience, which is works in everything else in life, you know. But you can't you never take advice like at face value from someone else. Oh, like you better do this, or your kid is gonna be XYZ. That doesn't make a difference unless they're living in your house with your experience, with your hours, with your whatever it is. It's impossible to get practical, solid advice from another person. You get different perspectives, but only you can figure out what's going to work best for you and your family.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we never give parenting advice, but we'll share our experiences. Correct.

SPEAKER_04

That's that's a great, that's a great way to look at it because you're right. Everyone has an opinion, and everybody is different, and you're uniquely you and you're uniquely your family. And yeah, you can't copy paste that. But so many people do try. So I think they love it.

SPEAKER_00

I have a three-month-old. I'm now a parenting expert.

SPEAKER_04

Oh yeah, oh yeah. Well, in honor of Father's Day, we have to talk about this. What does Father's Day mean to you today compared to, I don't know, 10 years ago?

SPEAKER_00

In some way, it feels like completion. I'm done.

SPEAKER_02

You're 18.

SPEAKER_00

I'm gonna pay for college, but you're out the door. The door doesn't work the other direction. Father's Day is done. But I don't think it's such a dad thing.

SPEAKER_05

Oh my god. Oh, it's never early Father's Days were all like, oh, the kids are gonna like make you a card and they're going to like, oh, why you're a great dad, and they're gonna take a picture with you, and they're gonna bring you breakfast in bed, and it's all it's not, it's wonderful, and you go on an activity, but it's like very like a box because when you're a beginning father, that's what you look at. You look at other people's boxes and you want to fit in that box. Now that we've we know what our boxes are sort of looking like, we can sort of really celebrate you, and our each of our children can celebrate you in the way that they know, like they know you. They're not doing what they're supposed to do, they're doing that what works best for you how because they love you and they respect you. I know what they both got him for Father's Day, and they are both really, really perfect gifts. And I know what I got you for Father's Day, and it's also fair.

SPEAKER_00

Very exciting. To that point, breakfast is with our son, dinner will be with our dog. Yeah, because for breakfast, she's in Boston, and for dinner, he'll be down in Rhode Island because he'll be at camp. Father's Day looks very different now because they are scattered about in different parts of the world.

SPEAKER_04

They have their own lives now, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Well, a question for you, Minnie. What's something about Danny that makes him just an exceptional father that most people never really get to see?

SPEAKER_05

It all ties back to that pulling a Danny because he it's not just doing a shirt at this point. I know. I mean, I feel like it should just be like a business because you should like tell people our YouTube pod our pulling a Danny. Danny to the rescue, I'm telling you. It's probably good. I I enjoy taking the help and you enjoy giving it. Yeah, I know. So not what it is. No, but he does the things a lot of parents and my parents and even your parents, when you when they help, it's it's at like you have to like ask. You ask for help or you like it's a desperate situation. Danny's quiet way of taking in information and looking at a situation. It helps him in his career for sure, but it also translates so well to his family because he'll listen to like if our daughter's having a situation and she's like, you know, like, but look, I I created this Excel spreadsheet for you and now and she'll be like, oh, Excel spreadsheet. Um, or Aiden, like, he needs like help the figuring out something. Like, he helps them in a way that they know that he's helping, but not because they're desperate or not because it's become a panic situation. He helps because he's constantly present. They know that if they ever need him, he will be there. He'll never make them feel bad for needing anything ever. No matter what it is, they can come come to him and they'll he'll be able always figure out a way to even if he can't fix it, right? Because sometimes you can't fix with kids. You want to be able to, but he always is able to take a step back and make them take a step back with him and see the bigger picture and oftentimes make them feel better and stronger from it, which I think is the best way you can help your family.

SPEAKER_04

I love that you help without being asked to help. I think that's such an important man skill because women do not like to ask for help. We're really good at passive questions. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02

We like to feel good.

SPEAKER_00

I also feel like you're so you're like the constant. You're the constant parent who's always there far, probably there far more often. I feel like I'm the episodic parent. Like I come in when like something needs to get done or solved. I'm sure the good episode there's plenty of time that we spend together. I'm not saying it's always like that, but there's also that.

SPEAKER_05

Well, I'm there for their everyday needs, and you're there for like you're always there, but like if they need something like special.

SPEAKER_00

It is interesting who they go to for different things. I've got very specific.

SPEAKER_01

You've just I I want to be adopted. I mean whatever you're doing. I'm there.

SPEAKER_04

But I I think you've you've touched on something, you know, like the reality, not not this polished version that you know you you may present or a lot of people present on, especially social media. So you kind of said Mandy's the present, she's always there. You're you you may come in more episodically, but you make an impact. So, where do those more traditional roles tend to creep in?

SPEAKER_00

Um the reality is I think we're a fairly traditional family. Um, the the societal norms are fairly Mandy does the dishes 99% of the time, Andy does the laundry 99.5% of the time. I have a very limited repertoire for dinner like box mac and cheese, tuna melts.

SPEAKER_05

But those are the kids' fits.

SPEAKER_00

I can follow a recipe if I have to. Uh, but most of the time it's man, it's 100% Mandy planning dinners. So I feel like, and then and in and I've always, you know, sort of worked in a corporate world for the most part, and you've always sort of worked from home.

SPEAKER_05

Literally, my job is in the kitchen. Like I'm in the kitchen all the time. So it's like it's lends itself to more traditional setup because so how often is dinner just something that I made for my job? Like, all right, we're starting with this basic marshmallow coated chala, and then we'll put broccoli on it and it'll be healthy, you know?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, like smarter, not harder.

SPEAKER_05

That I mean but um yeah, but you also but Deanny is very willing and able to step in, like in ways that like I know that my my family, my parents are very, very traditional. Like my dad never would, but you're always like in a heartbeat would do like I just even if I don't have to ask, sometimes you'll do it. But even if I ask, you'll do it. So it's good.

SPEAKER_04

I'm non-traditionally healthy. So sorry. Who would you say owns more of the invisible work?

SPEAKER_00

I still say it's nandy.

SPEAKER_04

No, but you do all the like annoying stuff.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I do the bills, make sure the house isn't falling down.

SPEAKER_04

See, that's important. That's very important. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

The house running and no, it is I at what time, like for whatever reason, I was counting up how many jobs we all have. And like home management is a job. Like no one should anyone who owns a home knows that if you think about all the jobs you have to do in a day, home management is definitely one of them.

SPEAKER_04

Chief home officer.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, but I don't know, I think it's more important what we do.

SPEAKER_05

I do a lot of emotional support and like the quiet things, like the children will be like, oh, how did this even get here? Or remembering like connecting the pieces, like like Evie wanted to borrow the sleeping bag for the party that she's having on Saturday night. But then Aiden is going to camp on Sunday and he needs that sleeping bag. I just saved a whole bunch of shenanigans and Tom Flooring by putting a stop on that too. Yeah. Oh, because otherwise he wouldn't have had his thing when he wasn't even know. They were just not seeing I took care of that. Silent. But then you might pay the electric bill yesterday. I didn't hear about that either.

SPEAKER_01

I love how this is, I swear to God, seriously, I said it before and I'll say it again. Couple goals. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I had relationship goals.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah, totally. Totally. So, d Danny, have you ever had like the wow, this isn't equal moment as you've witnessed Mandy's career firsthand? And if you and you know, and when you did, what did it teach you about inequality?

SPEAKER_00

I don't know. That's a tough one to answer.

SPEAKER_05

It's hard because my job is so traditional roles-based. Like the people in my field are usually women in the kitchen cooking for people, teaching people how to cook. So it's like those traditional roles is like that's where I am. So like I'm competing against people.

SPEAKER_04

I'm not competing against anybody, but uh, you know, it looks like I'm saying, like, yeah, it's hard to like publishers with the book or you know, the media networks that you're advertising on. Some of those can be more male dominated. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I still think because we were debating this recently, I still think the male personas in social media are different and have permissions to do different things than females do.

SPEAKER_05

Correct.

SPEAKER_00

It's just it's a different type of sort of like, I don't is aggression the right word, or just sort of like, I don't know how to describe it. Well, they can be and then the other thing, sorry.

SPEAKER_04

No, no, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00

I was gonna say the other thing too is sex sells. So, like it's killer, the people who pop up out of nowhere half dressed, making bread, and all of a sudden walk it at shit.

SPEAKER_04

Like they're just like, let me read this dope.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04

And you're saying you don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_00

I've been telling her, I'm like, that bikini's hot. Let's go make a fire.

SPEAKER_05

If you like he market, all they want to see is you washing dishes. I just did a video of Danny doing the dishes, they'd be like, oh yeah, follow her.

SPEAKER_04

I mean, that in our life. You gotta you guys gotta do it.

SPEAKER_01

I think, I think, Mandy, you I think you've made Danny blush. He's actually coming.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, no, that's an interesting pro point though, because like a lot of the men in the in the influencer, like you'll see them now, actually. There's a lot of like sexy men cooking. Have you? I don't know if this has come across your team, but you're a lot of people like a wood chopper, like a lumberjack. He's like, let me go ahead and make some dough.

SPEAKER_02

It's shirtless.

SPEAKER_05

Wow. And the women follow him, and then they'll follow him and they'll let make his recipes and like they'll be like they'll make fun of it, like but also like take in his knowledge. There is one woman that comes to mind that she does a lot of her baking completely naked, not completely, but like to me, I'm like, wow, good on you for having all of that. You need to cover things, but he her she has a good mix of people who follow her because she's sharing a recipe, but she has a lot more people who follow her because she's sharing her boobs. You know, like there's like so it's again she's she's got way more followers, way faster, way better brand deals. But she's a woman and she's she's smart because she's doing what's that that bikini is starting to sound like a good idea, isn't it, Mandy?

SPEAKER_02

Gotta get all stuff. Let's go.

SPEAKER_04

Well, I think you've answered the question then. What does real support look like from Danny? It's Danny showing up in the kitchen with just an apron on. So a very small, like half apron though.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. I'm excited for that calendar. Let's go. I know what I would do, Mother's Day. You have 11 months. Come on.

SPEAKER_02

Come on. Oh, yes. I love it.

SPEAKER_01

The counter tap. In slow motion, though. Do you guys want us to leave you for a moment? I mean, do you need a moment? You guys have a short break. So, Daddy, let's move to the fact that you're a leader that people just adore completely. Um, you have a great reputation, as you know. So, so so what is the secret? You know, how do you build loyalty and and what does trust actually mean within your teams?

SPEAKER_00

For what it's worth, I I I think about this a lot because it I think it's important for leaders to know what works and what doesn't. And so, like over time, I've sort of gathered philosophies that I've adopted for my own. But like, I always keep in mind there's a few things that every employee wants. They want to be seen and heard, they want to be recognized, they want a sense that there's fairness and justice in the system. And a lot of times we think it's, oh, they want more money and they want promotions, whatever, but there's like fundamental human needs that I think you have to keep in mind. And for me, so my agency leadership philosophy has always been happy team, happy clients. I learned a long time ago that if you have a miserable team or they're under-resourced or they don't have what they need, that is going to reflect in the work that they deliver. The clients are gonna feel it and you're gonna churn clients. And so I've really made an emphasis, and sometimes to the point where you get challenged by leadership, why are you spending more time on the, you know, and in certain cases, spending more time on the team than not with the clients? But because if you've got a problem that you have to solve, like you've really got to fix that because there really is a viral nature, especially within tight-knit teams, where somebody's feeling something and it will spread really fast. And so I try to spend a lot of time making sure that I like understand what's important to people, that there's multiple outlets for their voice to be heard, that I've, you know, my doors always open. I find it's harder and harder to get people to take me up on that, but I really do mean it. And I spend a lot of time talking to my direct reports and skip level meetings and asking, what am I not hearing? What am I not seeing? What's going on with you? What are you, what are other people talking about? And I use that not to generate gossip, of course, but to get insight into what we might need to adjust or fix. And so I think that that helps. The other thing I was thinking about too, as you said, like loyalty. The interesting thing about it is I rarely felt it, not that I don't feel the team's loyal, but with few exceptions, you rarely feel it in the moment. You tend to know it after you've left a job. So, like when I left Spotlight Flywheel, that was when I suddenly realized the impression that I made. And that was like a really special moment. Like I actually saved all of my emails and messages that I got and everything. Because you don't necessarily realize the impression you're making because it doesn't get recognized in the moment. What gets recognized in the moment is this is overwhelming, this client is bitching, I've got too much to do. You know what I'm saying? Like you hear the bad stuff when you're in the moment, but it's rewarding afterwards, I guess, is what I'd say too.

SPEAKER_01

That is that is very true. Because again, it was it was it was actually no, uh, because I wasn't in your team and I was talking to people in your team while you were still there. The there was a lot of I mean, for want of a better word, feedback. Or they they would just we would talk about something and then they would say, Oh, but Danny's great. Danny will listen, and Danny will help with this, and and Danny this and Danny that. And I'm like, okay, he's helping me.

SPEAKER_04

But I feel like it really transcends like not just work. Like I can see those same things that you said applying to your personal life, right? Like happy wife, happy life, happy team, happy client, right? And they want to be heard, they want to be seen, they want to be acknowledged and respected. I mean, it just you emulate that. So it it's very genuine to who you are, whether that's at work or at home or at play. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's it's um, it's it and it is a it's a tricky balance because the demands, other demands are much louder. The clients who are unhappy, the new business that needs to be closed, the number that has to be hit, right? But it's like um, I don't know, it's always a delicate balance, I guess. My bosses are watching. I'm very focused on the numbers. Don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, Danny is focused on achieving the numbers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Danny is overachieving on his numbers. So, Danny, going back to team dynamics, what are the behaviors that you absolutely do not and will not tolerate?

SPEAKER_00

Um Well I the first thing that always jumps to mind is I won't tolerate people's stuff. Stepping on other people to get ahead. And I will say that that is not the same as self-promotion, because I do believe people need to, to some extent, be part of the team, be part of the conversation and celebrate each other and what they're doing. But that shouldn't be confused with people talking about it because they're trying to compete or get ahead of others. But for those who I find are not, and I I've rarely encountered this, but are not genuinely in it for the team and are in it for themselves, I have a lot of trouble with those people. If they're, if they're themselves first and not team first, you you do start to see where that will come out and come through. They're not following processes, they're not following practices, they're they've got side communications that are off book, like all kinds of things. And that that is creates a lot of problems. What else? What else do I not tolerate? Oh, I really have trouble with coasters. You know, I think everybody does, but uh there's always people who are there's a lot of people who show up every day and they're here for it and whatever it takes, and they're all about the team, they're all about the clients, they're all about the company. And there's other people where you just get like they're punching a time card. And it might be something that happens over time. We there's a term for it now, quiet quitting and stuff like that. But like as soon as we identify that that's happening, we either figure out how to re-engage them and get them involved or start making plans to rotate them out because it's not fair to everyone else, right? That's where the issue is because the other people look, and this is feedback I hear all the time is I see other people doing less than me. And that's very frustrating. And then and it's not fair. Sometimes it's perception and sometimes it's education. So in agency life, as you may know, there's always the debate between retail and media who works harder, who does more work. That debate's eternal. So sometimes it's also education to help you make sure they understand well, media's on 24-7. Retail has a lot more detail and levers to push and pull, but it balances out in the end, right? So I always always want to make sure I take that in stride that people are people truly coasting versus perception and how to solve it.

SPEAKER_04

I love that. All right. Well, Danny, how do you deliver results without burning out your team?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I think the first thing I'll say is I'm not always successful. And it's always the most heartbreaking, honestly, when people do burn out. I remember my first one early in my career, and I remember the one that happened three weeks ago. There's sometimes people, things going on in people's personal lives, things that are happening with individual clients that cross the line and were just enough to push people over. Things that happened. I've been in my role seven months. Some of these people have been here four or five years, and there's things that happened a year ago that are just now starting to materialize in decisions people are making. But so I, you know, I'm the first to say I'm never going to be fully successful at that, but it is about listening and understanding workloads and priorities and understanding that some one person might have four clients, but it represents 40 brands. And one person has six clients, but it represents 10 brands. And the workload is very different between the two. I've also learned over time the support structure is critical. It's both above and below. So if you think about the manager level, the amount of time directors have to support their direct reports directly correlates to how well people are able to do their job and not burn out. Because if they have director support, they're getting mentorship, they're getting backup, they're getting air cover, they're getting people who are coming in and helping manage situations. And then the layer underneath is critical as well. For me, like non-value added work is always the enemy. And how do we either move that to offshore resources who are designed for that or increasingly AI? And because that's also the stuff that burns people out. Like I had to pull this data and it took me three hours to do that. Now, like my next question is did you use Claude? Did you try Claude first? Because they Claude probably could have done that for you in like a few seconds. And so a lot of time management and things like that go into it. But that support layer above and below is is also critical to managing program.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Yeah. I think often overlooked too. Yeah. Well, just to shift back to, you know, Danny as an ally. And, you know, were you always an ally, or when did your perspective start to shift on on women and leadership and you know, the the value they bring and maybe how that that differs?

SPEAKER_00

I did think about this a little bit because because you could you know you shared some of the questions in advance. First of all, I think Mandy has massively influenced how I manage the team in general, women, whatever background, whatever it might be, I think that's been a a massive impact and understanding empathy and different points of view. But then, and then then I like along the way again, I like gathered certain sort of philosophies and things that work and things that understand. So when I think about, first of all, when I think about allyship, it's about understanding that everyone comes from, broadly speaking, everyone brings their self to work. And I don't think enough people recognize that because your personal life experience from birth to that moment, all the way up to what happened that morning is going to influence what people are showing up with at work. And that has to be recognized. And it's it's women, it's LGBTQ, it's race, it's every aspect of it. It's white, it's male, it's female, whatever it is, that context is really important. And a lot of cultures try to suppress that and make everybody like a robot and behave the same way. And I think that that's missing the opportunity. And so along the way, recognizing that became really important. And that ties into, you know, like I had, I'll never forget early in my career, Jane J, my product director, super respected, whatever. And she's got like spit up on her lapel, because on her way to daycare, her kid threw spit up on her, right? Like an hour before. And she had a big presentation to the board and she's flipping out about it. And it's like, that's just part of like what happened. And you have to like recognize that that's that's not a failure, right? That's not anything to do with like your career or your commitment. It's just you bring your whole self in. So I think that's been important, and I've I've like really tried to keep that in mind. I think when it comes specifically to women or even underrepresented groups of women in particular, I remember reading reading a study a long time ago, and I think it's well quoted and cited, but that generally speaking, women are more critical of themselves for the same work and the same output. They're going to rate themselves lower, be less likely to advocate for promotion, be less likely to advocate for a raise. I would probably argue that's probably shifted because I think in the younger generation or the earlier career generation currently, I don't get that as much as maybe I used to see it earlier, but I keep an eye out for it to make sure that people are not under women are not underrepresenting their work, then they're not missing the opportunity to get recognized and to promote what they've done because it just generally speaking, it's sort of the behavior and the norms that our our society teaches. And then I think the third thing that I learned more recently, and by meaning like maybe in the last five or 10 years, was like true of every anybody, don't talk over people. It's once you start to watch it, you realize how pervasive it is when comment to make, and they just start talking over the next person. And I really go out of my way to make sure somebody's done. And if I accidentally start talking and they're not done, to let them continue. And it's true for men too. But generally speaking, and I do think I read something about this too, men tend to speak over women more, especially in a business setting. And so it's important to let everybody finish what they're speaking. And it sounds like basic manners, but if you start paying attention to it, you wouldn't believe how common it is for people to just start talking over others.

SPEAKER_01

No, no, we we we believe you.

SPEAKER_00

Very good.

SPEAKER_04

It's like a double dutch, you know, you're like, when do I go in? When do I go in? And I think that perfect opportunity, like, okay, you're done. Now I'm going to. But men will kind of interject themselves a lot more freely into that.

SPEAKER_01

Daddy, was there and I asked this question because I had this conversation with my husband as well, uh, not that long ago, about changing shifts and and and different perspectives through the generations as you learn more, as you, as you learn better. Was there anything that you had to unlearn as a leader?

SPEAKER_00

Um there was. You know, assuming I'm right, I think is probably the biggest one. I've over time another philosophy I've developed is people made the best decisions they could at the time with the information they had. The biggest mistake I see leaders make is come into a new role, say, this makes no sense. That person was an idiot. I'm gonna fix it. And you get into it and you suddenly start to learn, they will start to learn what the context was and realize you you just can't move that fast if you don't take the time to truly understand the context on how they got there and why they did it that way. I mean, I can look back at what happened in the years prior to me getting here and absolutely question a lot of decisions that were made. But based on the people who are in those roles with their experience, best information they had, they did the best they could with the and same thing with me. Yesterday, I probably made a decision that six months from now somebody might look back and say, that was that was the wrong decision. But I made the best decision I could with the information I had. So kind of unlearning that I think was really important and recognizing that that you have to think about it contextually, and it's not about what's done in the past, but what do you do about it now?

SPEAKER_01

I love that. And and th importantly, you know, you were talking about um contacts and you were talking about what's important in the moment. What does your leadership make possible for the women you work with and have worked with?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I would always hope it's professional, it's professional and personal development. I always hope that anyone who works for me, but and and certainly women feel empowered, feel heard, feel that there's justice in the system and in fair decisions, but ultimately their own careers take off and launch. And so I'm not saying my philosophy is what the next person should do, but if I can teach a way of management or a way of leadership that they can pick up and take forward, my greatest pride is watching, you know, people who've worked for me before see them. They're now directors, they're now VPs, they're now presidents. A few people who work for me are now started their own companies and are CEOs of like successful CBGs. And it's like, I love that. That makes me, I'm not saying I'm taking credit for it in any way, but I mean, that's that's the ultimate outcome, is that, and I always say too, like, I hate when people leave, when they resign, like regrettable resignations for sure. But at the same time, people are gonna make decisions that's best for them and and their selves and their family if they have a family. And I recognize that too. And so I do get joy after I get sad about people leaving. For me personally, I do get joy knowing that they're going to something that they're more excited to do. And that's that's good. I feel like we've given them the room to figure that out and realize that there's something else that they could be doing that's more fulfilling.

SPEAKER_04

Let them spread their wings and fly.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Doesn't mean I need to fight to keep them, because I usually will. It's a different story.

SPEAKER_04

All right. Well, enough about you, Danny. Let's go back to Mandy for a second. Mandy, tell us about this cookbook that you're working on and what inspired you to start. Is there a story behind it?

SPEAKER_05

Starting Mandylicious was honestly because um my I never made chala bread ever because I it's not just like it's a delicious bread, it's braided, but there is a lot of um hoopla behind it. Because it's like religiously, it's like the bread. If you don't celebrate any aspect of Judaism, you sometimes will have like a chala at your wedding. If you don't know anything about Judaism, you know, oh, chala bread is great French toast, you know. So there's like a lot of power that chala has over people. So I think I was intimidated to even try, even though my mom made chala growing up. She went to someone's house and they served a chal that had like a layer of honey in it. And she asked the woman, How do you make this chala that's got the honey in it? And I was like, I'm never gonna tell you. She's like, I'm gonna take that secret to my grave. And the woman did just die, by the way, and she definitely took the recipe with her. So my mom called me because I'm she I'm from St. Louis and I live in near Boston. So she called me. She's like, This is the craziest thing. And she's like, I wonder how she did it. And I was like, Well, let me see if I can figure it out. So I spent all this time trying to make chala just so I could figure out how to put honey in the cala. But when I was making the chala, I made every mistake. Like there was not like I was the dumbest you could ever feel at the end of this. It was very disheartening. And then the honey part was a whole other thing. So I started putting things that I know would work or that people would like. Like Deanny likes buffalo chicken, so I put a buffalo chicken stuff cala. And I know that my mom likes cookie dough, so I made a cookie dough stuff cala. And then so I have like all I started making all these flavors, and then I eventually caused me to like, you know, I made a little business and I sold from my home. And then someone encouraged me to go on Instagram because that could be another way to help boost my local business. But the Instagram algorithm doesn't work like that. And what it did was showed my page with all these crazy recipes to people who are curious about baking. And they had they sent me all these messages, and all of them were because they were scared to go to like bigger creators, and they felt comfortable talking to some just some woman who's making fun halas, and they sent me all these questions. I remember one day just figuring out where the ant question, like the DM button is in Instagram. Like I know it existed for many months, and I had like all these questions, like, how do you make your house do this? How do you make your highs do that? And I realized that Instagram is a place not where like always local sales go, but it's like where a community could build. And the crazy thing was that every single problem that all these hundreds of people had were problems and issues and mistakes that I had made. So I was able, because I took all that time making every mistake, I did it on purpose, obviously. No, but I was able to answer all of their questions. And that's how my how Mandela just really became a thing was because it more that people felt comfortable. And I still work hard to make sure people feel comfortable asking questions that they always feel heard. They always feel that they're they should feel proud, that there's no shame if you made a mistake, that you don't have to be Jewish to make fala, you don't have to be religious. If you want to make a bacon stuff, you go for it. No one's gonna judge you because here because this is what's something that feels important to you. I've come up with flavors that have inspired people from other cultures and other beliefs and their families. I have people who now who were scared to make fala or now their children are making fala, because how could you not want to make like a rainbow monkey bread fala? You know, like those are those are all sorts of fun things that like it has helped grow. Sort of. Um, but because of I'm me, like a lot of people did ask, is there like a cookbook? Because all of my recipes are shared one way or another on Instagram. I don't have like a blog. People ask me for a recipe, and I share it with them. And I and I teach classes and I'll teach recipes in the classes, and that's just how I become like sort of like the teacher lady. And then so many people were asking if I had a cookbook and I didn't because I didn't know how to go about it. And I sort of like lack that confidence, I guess. And then one of my followers actually said, Do you ever consider writing a cookbook? I'm like, I would, I just don't know how to go about it. She's like, I've been following you for a year. I'm a literary agent. Let me help you figure out how to make a cookbook. And she helped me. She so she we we wrote the whole thing up like for a year. Then she it was like a proposal, like it's a whole thing. It took a year to write. Like it's not just you just here you go. And then she marketed it to other to different um publishers, publishing houses. And then actually a few of them wanted to actually get it. So there's like an auction. So I gotta like interview the publishers that I thought would do the best job telling the cookbook and helping me communicate best with my um all the mandalicious people and people out there who just want to learn more about baking bread in a comfortable environment where they could ask questions. And so that's what we did, and now it's coming out in September. I'm really excited. There's a there should be a QR code on it where people are able to even send me questions from the cookbook if they have any. So they don't feel like they're I because that's fair. That's the most important to me of all this. I don't want to lose touch. You know, I want to make sure I can still help people. So I'm excited. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, look at the picture of your book on that.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_04

Look at Danny's short.

SPEAKER_02

He's wearing the book.

SPEAKER_05

And then this is this, there are a lot of them are there's like 60 recipes. So this one's the halumnan, like alumnan. It's got Indian spiced potatoes in this one. Stop it.

unknown

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05

Oh my god. And then this is my grandmother's curry dip recipe. So it's like this was one of the first flavors that I made, and this is my grandmother's thing, and this is my recipe. So it's all sort of on the cover in a nice casual way. I love that.

SPEAKER_01

Mandy, I swear, if you make, if you perfect gluten-free hala bread, I will. I'm sorry about this, Danny, but I will move in with you. I'm I'm not I would love it.

SPEAKER_05

I would love to figure it out. It is it's a whole other ball of beans. You have to get a whole bunch of special ingredients. People are really, but they are really, I mean, I'm not that there are gluten-free ones out there. You can do it.

SPEAKER_01

I have all the faith anyway. Have you tried gluten-free bread? It's cardboard. It's cardboard, Mandy.

SPEAKER_05

Card a gluten-free recipe. It's just a different experience. But I think with enough xanthem gum and tapioca flour and all that stuff, they they have now there's easy to get easier to get ingredients than they used to be to help create a more bread-like texture because now there's gluten-free bakeries everywhere.

SPEAKER_04

Um, I love that part of your success has definitely been your authenticity. And like, listen, I've made mistakes too. Let me let me show you. You know, everyone is real, we're in this together, and that you're just so accessible to your community. I I I you're accessible in general. Your personality just like beams, and I think you deserve all the success. So we're excited for your book to come out. We're excited for any host gifts you want to send our way, aphalas. We're as soon as it's out, we'd love to help promote that.

SPEAKER_01

I will I will go through the pain to have some of that. It's worth it. She'll stuff through it. Oh my goodness. All right. Well, uh, we have gone through a lot of serious talk, and we love your book coming out. But now we're going to go through a final lightning round, and and it's all about just random questions. So biggest myth about power couples.

SPEAKER_05

That they have any real power. Like it's just like we get we chat like we like I feel like there's like kryptonite. There's no power, it's just the the power is like working together.

SPEAKER_00

I and I think the biggest myth too is like there's there's no humanity, right? Like you see the power and you assume, oh, that's just the way they are at home. Surely that that super successful executive they must walk around that way at home. But we all put our pants on one leg at a time. If it's a sudden, not at all. That's right.

SPEAKER_04

What's one word to describe your partnership?

SPEAKER_05

I feel like it's complete. Not complete, that it's done, but like it's a full partnership. Like there's not, it doesn't, there's no beginning and no end. There's no lopsidedness that we've just we've we're complete. Like this is how it works. That's a wheel. That's it. Does Danny complete you?

SPEAKER_02

You can you had me on hello.

SPEAKER_04

I had I had to go there, sorry.

SPEAKER_01

Hardest negotiation work or each other. Oh, it's definitely each other, right?

SPEAKER_05

I'm like, What do you mean the hardest like negotiation? Like, what do you think? Like I feel like there's no like there's no negotiating. Like it's just easy to like I guess that's true. Yeah, there's we're easy because we can like we're easy.

SPEAKER_00

Maybe I was saying what I thought the answer should be versus what the answer really is. So that's true. I don't know. No, that's true, because we don't have a lot of negotiation anymore. Like we just have our rhythm and we know what each person's gonna do. And there's rarely there's rarely a negotiation.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, there's I don't think we negotiate. We kind of know what our priorities and our values are, and then we compromise until it feels right, or we stay up until two o'clock in the morning to make sure that we each get what we need to each get done. That's what happened last night. We had a lot of work to do. We both needed like each other's help with. Um, yeah, but work harder. Yeah, work.

SPEAKER_00

It's a constant negotiation.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Cool wins arguments, and why is it always Mandy winning them?

SPEAKER_00

29 years, I still can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. One day you'll get it, honey.

SPEAKER_04

Keep trying, keep trying, Danny.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, that is the answer.

SPEAKER_04

It is. Just let me think I won.

SPEAKER_00

It's forever. There's no competition, there's no winning, and there's no value in winning.

SPEAKER_05

That's true.

SPEAKER_00

It just doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_05

Because if you win in the end, then you sort of lose. Because if you're winning, that means that someone you love is losing, which is so sad. Oh my god, you can't.

SPEAKER_03

Shut up, don't make me shut up. Technical difficulty.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, I finally, finally got to ask this question.

SPEAKER_00

Your favorite couple's anthem or song? Um, well, let's see. So, like our first song song, our song is Lady in Red.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, I know it's a lightning round, but the short story is I took her to my fraternity, semi-formal, and she was a definitely not a sorrari girl and came in a red dress where every other sorrari girl date was in a black dress. And they played Lady in Red and they all danced around her, and it was a very awesome moment.

SPEAKER_05

That was our date when we became boyfriend, girlfriends.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. What else?

SPEAKER_05

I want to wear that dress every year on our database. Stop it.

SPEAKER_02

These are so cute.

SPEAKER_01

You guys are an actual Nora Afron rom com. I swear to God.

SPEAKER_00

Um I I can't stop that.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, ooh, Kuka Shaka. I like that one because I never heard that song.

SPEAKER_02

Deep inside.

SPEAKER_03

I can't stop this feeling.

SPEAKER_04

Um yeah, that one.

SPEAKER_00

There it is.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_00

Is that that count?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, that counts. We'll take it.

SPEAKER_00

We do a mean sweet capital. Yeah, we really do.

SPEAKER_05

And you just let us know. Do it. Do it, do it, go, go, go, just a little bit. Sweet carabine. We'll have to pay for the other part.

SPEAKER_04

It's usually me singing, so I love this. Thank you. Thank you. Oh my gosh. This has been such a fun episode. I mean, I have taken so much. I'm gonna go talk to my husband now about relationship goals. Um, I mean, this is this is she commerce at its core. It's not just about women rising, but it's about those allies standing beside them, those partnerships that make it sustainable. So thank you both.

SPEAKER_01

It's it's built in kitchens, calendars, compromises, and the conversations, as you said before, Danny, that no one sees.

SPEAKER_04

Danny and Mandy, we do this thing at the end of every episode where we take an oath to kind of continue hanging forward and amplifying women's voices. So, will you both commit to continuing to champion women and join our sisterhood, as we said?

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. I love it. I love Mitch and I love the SheCommerce podcast. You guys are phenomenal. Thank you so much for having us. We don't often get to tell this side of the story, so thank you.