SPEAKER_01

This is Christina and Jackie from SheCommerce. And we're here in Cannes. And something I want to talk about today is you know, not all disruptors need to shout correct. Some rebuild the system entirely. And our guest today did exactly that. It's a pleasure to have the co-founder and CEO of Top Sport. Sorry, I had to say it again, Top Sport. I've been saying that a lot. All right, well, we'll start again. This is hitting us, so I'm just gonna move it. Hello and welcome to SheCommerce. This is Christina and Jackie joining you from Can. You know, not all disruptors need to shout correct. Some rebuild the system entirely. And our guest today is doing just that. It's our pleasure to have the founder and CEO of Top Sort, Regina Yee, join us here on the SheCommerce Podcast here at Cannes Confidential. Our episode today is going to dig deep and really uncover and be here for not just the hype, but you're here to help fix the problem, fix what's broken. So while everyone's throwing around the buzzwords, you can't get away from it here, AI-powered optimization, you're actually building it and creating the infrastructure that makes retail media accessible, efficient, performance-driven for brands that don't have billion-dollar budgets, which is a lot of brands. Not, you know, it is rare to find those billion-dollar brands.

SPEAKER_02

Here's what we love the most. Regina, you're not just scaling a company, you're redefining who gets to win in commerce. Top Sword, under your leadership, is blowing those doors open with machine learning that levels the playing field for challenger brands. The three things that stick out to us about your approach is that there's democratization over dominant over domination, building tech that empowers more players, not just the biggest ones, which is all about what competition should be, right? Abstance over noise, less sizzle, more systems that actually deliver ROI, and a global mindset with practical execution. Bridging innovation with real-world retail constraints. So your proof that you don't need to be the loudest voice in the room to fundamentally change the game. And that's the kind of leadership we're here for.

SPEAKER_01

Welcome to T Commerce, Regina. Thanks for having me. We're gonna be melting together, but it's hot. We are it's part for the course here in Cannes.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, absolutely. So, Regina, let's go into the state of retail media today. It's become one of the fastest growing channels, and yet much of the spend remains concentrated amongst a relatively small group of players. Where is retail media spend actually concentrated today? And what does that mean for everyone else trying to build a network? I should have.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's a that's a great question. So today, retail media, I think in Canada we're hearing a lot about like retail media needs to go through an adulting process, right? Like, hey, we're being judged with a whole new set of standards, we're kind of coming to the table with the big guys, which is all great. But at the same time, I think to do that, there are certain trade-offs or there are certain like you know, collaboration that's needed for the industry. And part of me wonders if the industry is ready for that. And then like we do see a lot of concentration today. It's really kind of down to I think everyone is that are early adopters. So people who got started earlier in retail media still they have the the head start, and I think a lot of them get to sort of keep the leadership position because of the years of like build-up and learning they've accumulated in the organizations. And then I think also it's just really the the know-house of like I think big brands or some of the traditional media players are still very vocal, right, in the space. And I would say there still hasn't like we haven't come to a true transparent or like open network or a real democratization of retail media yet, which I think is what a lot of us are like really excited about and we're hoping technology can help us achieve that.

SPEAKER_02

What are brands getting wrong w when they think about retail media today?

SPEAKER_00

This is interesting. I think brands have sort of their own opinion of what's retail media, and then they're constantly being told ten thousand other things uh about retail media. But our view is actually to keep it simple and really know that the power of retail media or commerce media is really the fact that you're so close to the conversion, you're so close to the purchase event and purchase intent. So really keep your eyes on the the price and on the numbers and the performance and I think uh that's actually the hard part. It's the simple part, but the the basics are hard to get right sometimes and then I think we see voices and players trying to say, you know what, it's not just about performance, but really it really comes down to performance and and I think brands deserve to sort of demand a certain level of performance and to say we want the same measurement, we want the same level of reporting, if not more, than traditional media if you want the same level of budgets.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely. It's a finite budget. Yeah, it's it's also I guess it's it's really hard to do the things that you have to do. You have to focus on day in, day out versus all new shiny, you know, interesting toy coming through, you know, and you want to play with that as opposed to your Lego that you've had for a long time kind of thing, you know?

SPEAKER_00

And I think we're we're in Canada here where retail media is sort of having that really interesting moment where it's not the new shiny thing anymore. Like it was very new a few years ago. And now it's like, okay, what is really the the angle here and how do they connect with brands really? And and that's very interesting, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Which brings us to our next question. So retail media one point oh was focused a lot around sponsored products. Retail Media 2.0 with displays came in and definitely off-site media. What would you say defines retail media 3.0? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I think it's about melting all of those together and being less about the forms and more about the substance or the the intelligence behind it. So there's definitely an increasing demand for like we want it to be performative, we want it to really hold up to the promises from the brands and agencies, which is great. But also for example, right, like if we're we're talking a lot about agenda commerce or AI, does that mean search volume might decrease by even just 20% in a few years and then that becomes a whole new different format? And if the attention becomes even more either even more fragmented and personalized or it's kind of going back mainly to another channel and it's happening so fast, like how do we sort of prepare for that? And my view is that it actually comes down to making sure you have a very cohesive logic and like intelligent system that sort of connects all these pieces. And so that if you have a new chat bot, if you have uh you know text or email or WhatsApp, whatnot, these are um additional channels, you're not kind of building your whole retail media offering from scratch just because search changed. Right.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So it it not not putting all your eggs in one basket either, kind of diversifying across the full ecosystem and then connecting all those parts so they're not siloed.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, exactly. And then to do that, it's really kind of go see one layer behind it. Right. Like I think nowadays the conversations we have are more focused around how do you make decisions? Like how how do you decide when you have all these like search, organic, seller, merchandising, and then also the the ads teams now have a increasing voice in these organizations. Like, can all these things work towards the same goal, which is to increase the business revenue? And our view is yes, and then with Commerce AI you can throw it all into one and actually have the model optimized for all of these. And I think it's a whole different paradigm that before it wasn't really possible. And and I think collectively we need to think bigger than just okay, we have sponsored products, we have sponsored display, like, you know, a new format and the new shiny toy. But really it's like now we can think even bigger, but it requires some sort of some boundaries are collapsing, right, with AI. So then like how do you define the new thing and like when we're not even so sure about what it will look like, or it's so new for everybody, I think whoever gets to adapt first or sort of like learn to think on their feet or just try and and see the power of the technology really gets to win.

SPEAKER_02

So we've been talking about AI, AI, AI all over again. Yeah, before can, and obviously go through after can. It is dominating conversations across an industry. But what we've been hearing more about, and you alluded to this earlier, uh Regina, is agentic commerce. How do you define it? And why should commerce later be paying attention?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And also on AI, I think it's connected to agency commerce, of course. It's to sort of like for me, my understanding of AI, I think everyone has sort of different ways to adopt and different definitions of it. But like when we think of AI, we're really thinking of a very intelligent machine that's making decisions, not in a linear way, but sort of making some patterns out of chaos. Of course. Yeah. And then uh for a genetic commerce, it's sort of thinking about to what extent will like our human relationship change with machines, right? As a as an organization, you can adopt AI and sort of say, you know what, we will have it assist or help or like our team do stuff, but I think for commerce it kind of one thing we will talk more and more about is sort of letting the machine predict the next impression or next next click or next purchase, like the next consumer interaction. Exactly. And um how sometimes it's so different from what you might think um would happen, but like a lot of other signals that actually have a lot of correlation with that final outcome or something that you wouldn't necessarily r like anticipate in the beginning. And then agenda e-commerce is sort of like pushing it a level further. So if you put purely machines to interact with each other or like in the future, I think certain categories will get impacted first. But like if I were to have so much trust in my own agents, or I was reading some reports the other day that now we're starting to have more traffic in certain places of the internet than true human traffic. Then are you right? And then agents are like machines don't understand things the same way as a human being. So like that means your search where you're doing this layout, like the PLP pages, the product description pages, they're all gonna look different. And then an agent will finally bring back to the human like probably what three or five or no more than ten results, so then you're not getting a fancy long grid with many pages. Then the promoted and the organic become much more blended. So what do you do there?

SPEAKER_02

And there and and of course, you know, the promoted and and organic become more blended because basically the agent is looking and aligning for what the agents want to see.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01

Which isn't just paid media spend.

SPEAKER_00

No, yeah. And the agents might negotiate against each other, right? They might talk to each other and like there will be conflict resolution as well, and then it's interesting. Like so I think we're nowhere near ready for that as an industry, but it will be it's something that like few are sort of like getting right or thinking more and more about and I and I'm excited to see what comes out of it because letting like commerce, letting a model predict the next purchase is really powerful, just like LLMs ultimately predict the next word. So if we can do that with the next transaction and you can have a model for that where it fits all these different complexities of an organization into one, it would be really powerful. Wow.

SPEAKER_02

So what what excites you, Regina, or also concerns you, most about the intersection of AI and commerce?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. What excites me is precisely the intersection. Like I think from where we sit like day to day, we see a lot of sometimes it feels like two different worlds. Like we have an office in Metal Park, our team, lots of them come from like Silicon Valley, big tech. So then AI feels like very natural. Like you talk about it, you think about it all the time. And of course of course it's the default. Like I think over a year ago we were talking about how agents might have to negotiate with each other internally, and then it sounded like kind of crazy to some back then. And then now it's kind of like, of course, like I think people are like adapting and sort of talking about it way more, and the changes to us as consumers are like it's it's much faster than anticipated as well. So I'm really excited to see the two worlds really blend because like still when we talk to certain retailers or brands, um a lot of them are saying, Hey, it's great, but I'm discovering because of the shift in technology that my fundamentals are not ready. And we as an organiz organization are totally like kind of right now, maybe in a bit of a paralysis or sort of thinking about, hey, which direction do we go next? And maybe they're waiting it out. And I feel like we are in a very unique spot where we can help bridge some of those gaps in a broader context now where I we have the trust of a lot of retailers and brands and at the same time, like we're really seeing what's happening on the front lines of technology and have been building some of that. So bringing it together is still very exciting. And I still think there's a lot to do as an industry like on the buy side or sell side, like you know, all those and retail media and commerce media are still such a small piece of everything we're we're seeing and hearing and can. And with AI, I really think so much will change. So I'm personally very excited about that, and I think our team have been just super, super excited about it. And what concerns me would be the fact I feel like we're kind of at a forked road right now, and there's sort of a degree of like, hey, do we go for the comfortable and the familiar? Or um we're just gonna have to push through and like embrace the future. And I think it's a little bit of uh people are not so sure behind between the two, and then like and I think the the perils of making the wrong choice is pretty high. So like I would say I would love to see the future win instead of you know, kind of people sort of just saying it's too uncomfortable, I'm gonna just like go back and reverse to the old ways. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Well, you kind of touched on this earlier. You spoke about the role of infrastructure and kind of that next layer back. So what do you think the role of auctions, ad serving, and AI optimization are going to play in this next generation of AI commerce experiences?

unknown

Sorry, could you?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. What role do you think auctions, ad serving, and AI optimization are playing in shaping the next generation of commerce experience?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's a great question. I think it should be the default. So for us, we actually built it as the default, and then we ended up gaining those more traditional ad tech muscles like fixed tenancy, like the parallels or kind of equivalence of the features you would have in an ad server. In our second, third year of business and audiences, et cetera, as well. Our first offering was very simple. It was just like let's focus on the purchase intent, let's foc focus on the product catalog and the behaviors associated with the products, and that's it. So we were able to go pretty far and see how that fundamental really makes a huge difference. And I think what's gonna happen in the next like a year or two would be that whether or not you have technology will become such a clear like division between the vendors and or just the the players in the industry that to the point that if you don't have that right, like it you're kind of not going to really keep having a good business because the a lot of ad servers or a lot of technology uh today still being adopted come from publishing world. They come from traditional publishers, like really thinking about a static blog. But then if we're thinking about commerce and transactions, like it's speaking a different language, so then if you're thinking of it as 2D and not a 3D or 4D thing, like it's just not gonna work. And and we know that firsthand as well as we kind of go through some migrations of a lot of retailers sort of upgrading their stack as well.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So let's let's move into your leadership journey. You are building infrastructure in one of the most technical and traditionally male-oriented industries or sectors of the industry. What has surprised you most about being a female founder? Co-founder in I think it's give the honest answer.

SPEAKER_00

I'm trying to think there's so much. As you were asking me the question, I was just like, I have like flashbacks and kind of like movies. But like I would say for me, like my you didn't ask for this, but like if I were to give an advice, I would just say like don't care. Like, you know, because I think I think at some point I like so I would like go to these events and I basically realized that there's no way I can like blend in as like a a dude, right? Like normal nor would you normally try to or want to, but then it's like, you know what, I'm just gonna be myself and like you know, I would show up in the outfits I want, I would like bring my lab boo boos and like my matches or whatever and like I think that people actually respect that and like I think it it helps um with just like understanding okay, like you know, it's clearly like a different generation of style and then I and I I would say so a lot of the things are expected, right? Like you know you would be going into a very male dominant industry, like you would you could be working with sales guys that maybe never reported to a female boss before ever for the past two decades or three decades, like and I could see that how it sometimes could be a shock to their assistant to just like like I would ask them something and then like someone else on my team who's like a man, like I would ask them, Hey, can you just repeat the same message to someone and they would uh like take it very differently from me versus a guy? Oh it's happened.

SPEAKER_02

It like put their spent their own interpretation on it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, or like they are their ears work better when they're receiving an order from a man versus a woman. I think it happens. Okay, yeah, that's kind of the thing. Yeah. But what surprised me, I would say, is that how fast or how like little, I think with the industry sort of like catching up to a lot of things like happening and and embracing more technology, I'm actually positively surprised by the level of like female leadership we're seeing increasing in the space, and then also how less and I wouldn't say little because it's still valued a lot, but I think less and less the sort of like sales guys pulling ranks and like saying, Hey, I've done this for so many years really matter in a fast-changing space. Yeah, like I think it's valued less now, which could be a good thing because you know we've also done A B tests or like kind of just seen the comparisons naturally in the company that sometimes people who don't have necessarily the level of industry experience might also be more open-minded and more comfortable selling a a new solution as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Now, earlier you said that you know, when I asked you the question, you said you if you were going to give advice, the first thing you said was don't care. So which is a fantastic, I mean, piece of advice, but what else would you give a person, a woman, um, who is basically in the minority when they're building companies in these industries who don't care is one of them. What are the other I guess uh other pieces of advice for coping, coping mechanisms or coping strategies?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I have so many. We get that. Yeah, yeah. I would say one is like you have to just aggressively believe in yourself. You really have to and then there will be people that try to like kind of maybe, you know, like you just have to believe in yourself. Like otherwise, what are we doing? Right?

SPEAKER_01

Like if you don't believe in yourself, who's gonna believe in you?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. So I think I think that really like matters, like know what you're really good at and like just have unwavering faith in yourself or doing that. Because like I look back on some of the mistakes or like decisions we made that perhaps looking back it they weren't so good, and those were the moments where I kind of doubted my own yeah, my own in instincts were kind of like thinking, oh maybe I I need a man to help negotiate this deal or something, right? But it's like you know what, just believe in yourself. I think having a good support network and having really strong believers and allies really help, especially early days, I think, in the company, because we had little credentials in the company, like we were just starting, and I would have two co-founders that are both and that are really supportive, and I could kind of say, Hey, you know, guys, like I think I'm dealing with a certain audience here, and then it would be better if you guys kind of like step up for these calls or meetings, and that also works. And and then also I I think having just like personal grounding routines where like I'm traveling too much, I'm like you know, in too much of a Vegas conference room sometimes. Like I I think just having your little personal like oasis of like you know what, I'm just gonna chill, I'm just gonna relax and like you know, drink a cup of tea or something like that also helps. But yeah, like knowing that you're different and like you know, just be you and I think people always respect that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, for sure. Authenticity always wins. Yes.

SPEAKER_02

I really I you know, in my mind, I really have this vision of Regina in a in a in a great outfit in a great outfit with a little boo-boo and a matcha tee in a safe suit. Yeah, but that w that's rememberable. They will remember everyone will remember you, not the suits.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And it's like, you know what? If that is somehow annoying to you, that's your problem. Like, maybe go get a matcha, right? Like, well, I s yeah, why not?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, I'm gonna bearing. If we invited you back to She Commerce in twenty twenty eight and we're happy to do that, what prediction from today's conversation would you be most proud of to say, wow, I we got that right?

SPEAKER_00

If we can help accelerate the adoption of AI in true commerce AI forms and in various applications and products we're we're launching and we've already launched that are coming up. I I would say seeing it being used and getting value and can come to CAN and hear people say, you know what, that's actually changed or it played a role in our in our transformation, in the journey that I think all of us here know we're about to embark on. That would make me feel very happy.

SPEAKER_02

2028.

SPEAKER_00

We'll be back. It's gonna be a a few very interesting years ahead of us.

SPEAKER_01

The pace of them will be insane. Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_02

Get your skates.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. All right, we're gonna go into our quick fire round, and that is where we are gonna ask you questions. You just give us your top-of-line response. Short, piffy. Um, all right, I'll start. Retail media or AI? Which one gets more overhyped?

SPEAKER_02

AI. One founder or entrepreneur you admire. Patrick Collinson.

SPEAKER_00

He reads a lot. And I actually really like they have a books collection. So, like you might not know this. I actually study liberal arts and philosophy for two years before I studied computer science in school. And part of what I did when I was uh in my teenage years was just reading a ton of like really old books. And um, yeah, so they have like I learned ancient Greek to read like Plato and like I it's not sticking with me so much, but I did learn like I'd go through lexicons and translate words and I used to look at these, you know, these dual books where you're so happy right now. I know you really are.

SPEAKER_02

And you know, on the one page there would be all everything in Greek, and of course, because you do math, you understand some of the symbols and so on and so forth. And I mean the other side was they're yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It's really fun. So like um they have like this thing called Stripe Press, and then they actually like have books they they like or recommend, and they have even published some books, and like I just think it's it's really good to have companies that sort of have that level of self-awareness or like at least think and and and read. Like I I like that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, what's one app besides your own that you could not live without? Sorry, it was the question. An app that you could not live without.

SPEAKER_00

Recently I discovered this app that someone from our sales team told us it's called Time Shift. So it's for jet lags. And oh yes. I think I got your interest on this one. So we have been traveling a lot, I feel like, all of us. And um so I was coming back from a trip to Shanghai, and then this guy was coming back from NRF Singapore. So I was like, How are you not tired? I'm so tired. And he's like, Oh, because I have this app. And apparently, so you just put in your flights and it would tell you like when you can drink coffee, when uh sleep under the sun, when do you sleep? And I haven't tried my yeah, I haven't tried it for uh a full trip yet, but so far so good. So it's kind of my new app right now. Oh my god. Yeah, yeah, and it has a pre-trip thing too. So like before you leave, like two days ahead, you can start kind of getting in a little bit of a group. Like it's nice. I love that.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, go-to beverage or cocktail here in Canada.

SPEAKER_00

Um, Ice Matchalette.

SPEAKER_01

She has inside where to get one, Jackie after this. All right, and my favorite question what's your current favorite current favorite hype song when you're getting amping yourself up for that presentation or that pre that speaking engagement?

SPEAKER_00

Recently, for the past like four months, it's been stay sights like Daryl Larson and Pink Panther.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god. No, that's not it. No, don't sing.

SPEAKER_00

It it's been stuck in my head and it's just good.

SPEAKER_01

It is a good song. Yeah. All right. Well, in closing, we we want to end with so a little bit more of your foresight, your advice, and what's one thing you want the next generation of female founders to know?

SPEAKER_00

Uh time is on your side if and just go ahead and and try. Like, there's so little that you can lose if you just try, and like messing up isn't the biggest deal.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Let it go. Let it go. Let it go. Let it go. Oh my god, I didn't I'm digging it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Well, we can't thank you enough for joining us and melting with us a little bit today. We appreciate the time, we appreciate your insights. And you know, with every conversation we have on She Commerce, we ask our guests to take a pledge with us and join our community to pay it forward and join the sisterhood. So, Regina, would you like to take that pledge today?

unknown

Of course.

SPEAKER_01

All right, well, you heard here. We're gonna be back in 2028 with Regina checking.

SPEAKER_02

So there's Regina, thank you so much for your time with us today. We have we have really enjoyed it. Yeah. Uh and the only thing left to say right now is fierce women, bull rounds, one subscribe.