Heather Drain - Writer

Joining me this week is Heather Drain

Heather Drain is a writer who veers between the worlds of esoterica film, wild music, heart-born words, and prose that is dark, rich, quirky, and often undefinable. In the nonfiction realm, her work has appeared on the print and digital pages of Dangerous Minds, Diabolique, Video Watchdog, Art Decades, just to name a few. Her prose has appeared in both the Women in Horror Annual, as well as the 2020 anthology, The Blind Dead Ride Out of Hell: A Literary Tribute to the Amando de Ossorio. In addition to writing and researching the weird, lurid, and phantasmagorical, she is also married to writer/painter C.F. Roberts and is the human mom to two beautiful thug cats. 

Heather's Website

Heather's Linktree

Heather's YouTube

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Your Life and Film. Joining me this week is Heather Drain, or Mondo Heather, as she's known online. Heather is a writer and curator of esoteric culture. I met Heather on the Wonderful Caliber 9 from Out of Space. We were on the episode of Tape Heads and Night Patrol. I got on with Heather very quickly and I thought this woman, she gets it. So I thought I'd quickly get her on my podcast. Anyway, we talk about absolute nonsense, but starting with I'm a cat. When we moved into this house, uh the guy who lived here before us sort of said, like, hey, we're moving into a rental place. Um do you mind like taking ownership of the cat? Uh like while we're in the rental. And I was like, yeah, sure, that's fine. Like I I knew the person who I bought the house off, so I knew the cat.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

And uh I was like, yeah, sure, I'll take Bumble. And I think within about two months, I was like, I don't know if they're ever gonna get this cat back because he's my he's my cat now.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Right, the bonding that happens.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Then after six months, they were like, uh, he seems happier at yours. Do you mind keeping him? And I was like, I guess I will. But uh yeah, like I I d I it was beautiful just having a like a 10-year-old cat just here is cat.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Oh perfectly, yeah. No, we've never every animal we've had Presto was kind of a kitten when we got him, but um we had the intention of getting a full-grown cat. Like when we the shelter we had gone to, the cat we were going to get was a like two or three years old. And she so had gotten adopted out and he was it. And the minute I held him, he just like like kind of did the snuggle thing. And I am such a mark, it's ridiculous. Like, thank god straight animals don't end up in our area too often because yeah, I'd be like Sant Francine of a CC or something over here, but uh but yeah, but yeah, typically we've always like Brody's Brody was three when we got him. Like, I love puppies and kittens, but typically they find homes really easily because most people want a baby, they don't want a like an older animal. So I've always been just at the mind of like I'd rather just get one that's you know a perfectly awesome animal that isn't a baby.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Um no, yeah, like a hundred percent going forward. I would never get a brand new animal. I would want you know a child. I want one that's bedded in. Yeah, oh yeah, gently used, not worn out because my parents my parents got a dog from I Bosnia, if that's still a country.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Uh it was like a street dog. And it was they they were sort of saying, like, oh, we want to do something good by getting a street dog from Bosnia. And I was like, that there are street dogs here. Like there's lots of dogs that need homing here, but you weren't actually just bringing another into the country. I was like, that's almost worse, mum. And she was like, shut up.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

You're not welcome home for the holidays now.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

I mean, I'll tell you, that dog, like, they've had it for about four years now. Uh for the first six months to a year, he was a vicious little cunt, like, he was horrible. And like, I'm the biggest in my family. Like, all my like the rest of my family are old and frail or thin and frail. I'm like six foot and like broad. So when a dog's like, oh I'm being tough, I'm just like, fuck off. Like, I don't care. But everyone else was just like, oh, oh my. And it's just like, fucking hell. Why have you got this dog? So, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Oh my god. Also, I I can't decide what I want more as a band name, the Bosnian street dogs or vicious little cunt.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

I feel like Vicious Little Cunt is supporting Bosnian street dogs.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

Oh my god, yes. Yeah, this is like this is for people who think these words down. You can't write it down. Amil and the sniffers are way too mainstream. Go for the Bosnian street dog.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

They are definitely those people that are like oh yeah, you still listen to Amil.

unknown 4:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

I know. I don't know. Um like if you're into heavy metal.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

I am.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Perfect. Um, so have you have you run into the metal, like a heavy metal gatekeeper? I'm sure you have. Because I feel like metal's got a lot of gatekeepers. Where I had a I had a friend who meant well, he wasn't actually intentionally trying to be, you know, like rude, but I mentioned something about liking a cradle of Phil song. And you would have thought you would have thought I called Bon Jovi black metal. Like, oh my god, the the the disgust and outrage on his face was I can still see it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

I I always love to judge it whenever I sort of say to people like, oh, I'm into like hardcore uh like metal and stuff. They're like, oh, like Metallica, and I'm like, sure, sure. If that's what you're considering hardcore metal, I'm talking about bands like Converge, you know, Neurosis.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Oh god, I love, I love, I love the uh I've only I need to listen to more neurosis. I've heard the stuff they did with Jarbeau from The Swans, and I thought that was I thought that was great. I love her. Um no, Metallica haven't really been hardcore metal since like 85.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Genuine. They were pop, they were pop until about 2000s. Yeah, like I mean, and don't get me wrong, they've got bangers, they've got I save it with no hatred.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

I mean, to be like anything, you know, genres, there's genres we love, but I mean people sometimes get a little too precious about these things.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

They get far too precious. Yeah, um like when people would say those things of like, oh yeah, well, uh, can you even name the members of the band? I'm like, nah, I can't. Because I listened to the song, liked it, and then moved on with my life.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

There was nothing about that band that made me need to get more information. I was like, if you want in-depth stuff about I don't know, the damned, I might be able to go a bit further, or like you know what I mean? It's that kind of like I might be able to give you some more, but I you know, I liked a thing. It doesn't, it doesn't need to be analysed. We were meant to go see swans. We were meant to go see swans just before uh lockdown, like in 2020. Yeah. And uh we were both like way excited about it, uh because it was a sit seated gig. And I just thought like I love that they just know that their audience is all pushing for e. That's like you just want to sit down, don't you?

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Oh my god. Yeah, that's turned money. Yes, oh my god. Alright, everybody, we're gonna do an encore. Who here remembers raped by a slave? Who here remembers that?

unknown 7:21

Yeah, yeah!

SPEAKER_00 7:23

Get the lighters out, yeah. Honestly.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

Like, I went to go see uh Portal a couple of months ago. You know the Aussie like uh like death metal band?

SPEAKER_00 7:33

I've heard the name. I'm not super familiar.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Like I think I'm too old for death metal. I think I I think it's got to that point because three hours of just and I was like, that might be a bit bit much for me. And like I might have to listen to some K-pop demon hunters on the drive home. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

My you know, my problem with a lot of death metal is I love a lot of the actual music. Like I'll hear, I'll start hearing a song and I'll hear the music, and I'm like, this is fucking great. It's heavy, it's beautiful, I'm engaged, and then all of a sudden you hear that it's like, oh, whoa, okay. It takes me, it takes me out, man.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

Just give me instrumentals every time they put a song on. I was like, this sounds sick. And then the lead singer would start. I guess he does can you do the doom sort of like but in an Aussi accent because they're Aussies, so it's like, oh no, you know, like that.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

No, okay, that I could give that. I kind of like that.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

You see what Rob can do for us.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Oh my god, yeah. Yeah, no, I yeah, because I'm trying to think I wish more of these bands would take influence by because I love Merciful Fate. I love King Diamond, and I but I love the fact that he like he has such unique vocals, nobody sings like that guy. And to me, I actually think his voice sounds a lot more eerie than somebody just going like that.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Like it's just because it's so one note, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

It's one note, and it's like I I'm I don't even know. You guys could be singing about a sandwich or Satan or Satan's sandwich. It it's like like it's just that we're King Diamond, you know what he's saying, and it's like, did he just call that nun a cunt? Oh my god, what'd you do, sir? She had it coming, yeah, and then yeah, he's he singing about sex with the dead, like this is awesome. I too love King Diamond, but uh but to me it's like he sings like a fallen angel, which makes it kind of more evocative, you know, as opposed to just like I don't know. I mean, I could take a little bit of cookie monster vocals, but it's very tiny doses, it just doesn't it doesn't do a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

I listen to a lot of uh, like I said, converge and all that kind of stuff, and that's all screamy, but I s I consider the screaming to be another instrument. So if I can't quite get what they're saying, that's fine because it has inflection, it has tone, it has everything I want it to have, so that it's just another part of the soundscape that is their songs, whereas with Doom, it completely washes it, or Deathmather, it just completely washes it over, and then you're just like I was there with you and then I've lost it. But yeah, like King Diamond Uh, it's like that's a much better representation because I think it has that sort of like you know, real as a squirrel just explodes behind you.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

That new kitten in the other room just somebody's somebody's appersonating King Diamonds, I could tell.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

When uh when Henry was a puppy, we would play uh Sabbath's first album, like just quietly in the background so he knew. Just like, just so you know, man, we're into this shit.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

I love oh my god, yeah. See, I love it that you've invoked The Damned and Sabbath. Those are two of my favorite bands ever. Oh, there we go. Love, love, love, love. I still need to get The Damned's new album. Like they have that new album that's the kind of Brian James tribute album. The track list looks great. I know it's all covers uh of songs that meant a lot to Brian, which I think is which I think is really beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

That was nice. I saw that they're supporting who are they supporting? There's a band that's like doing a tour, and I wasn't that fussed about the band that was touring, but it was either depending on the gig, it was either the damned or um Oh my god. Jesus Mary Chain. No.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

No, I didn't they're worse bands.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

The damned are amazing though. Yeah, we uh my husband used to joke if we because sometimes people don't do this anymore, but we have family be like, are you guys ever gonna have kids? And we're like, we got cats, like we're good, and uh yeah, we're we're we're fine, yeah. And then I told him we should see if like Captain Sensible will let us adopt him. Cause like I've like I could I would be there with having like our child being uh a grown-ass adult who doesn't who doesn't live with us.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Oh, this is this is just we they're they're our they're our kid. What of it?

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Yeah, this is our son, and plus I love Captain, so I'd be proud, even though he's older, he's a lot older than me. But I mean it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

You know, spiritually, it's uh cosmically.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

He is my cosmic son.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Exactly. Oh nothing. No, we always get the uh luckily they've they've definitely stopped, but people would would always say to Kirsty and I, just like, oh, are you gonna have kids? And it's like, nah man, we're both like pretty certain we're not gonna. And they're like, Oh, you'll feel differently when you're a bit older. It's like Kirsty's 40. I'm pretty sure she'd know by now.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Yeah. Like. Oh god. I know. It's so weird too, because people I've always like, why are you guys so lackadaisical about such a huge decision? Like to bring in another human.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

Just have 'em.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Just have 'em.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Why? This isn't a pair of shoes. So dumb.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

Yeah. Like, it's uh, this is I mean, it what if you fuck it up? Like, what do you this is a human this is a f I mean, I don't even I I'm barely good with plants. Like, I'm a good mother to my animals, but animals are different. Animals are way different.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

Plus like when your cat or dog tells you you're not my real mother, you don't know what the fuck they're saying.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

You're just like, Yes, you got cute little is. I love you.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

I love you.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

And they're just like staring you down, and you're like, who's got the scary face? You know, and then go give them a treat when they fucking.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

No, I I've never I've never got it. I've never I tell you what it I also don't have that um paternal like I have it for a cat.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

Like that's about it. Like when Henry was a puppy for the first two years of his life, if someone said to me, for whatever reason, you gotta get rid of the dog, I'd be like, fuck him off then.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

Oh my god. I hate him.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Like it took so long for me to warn to him. So I feel like for a kid, if someone was just like, Well, here's your kid, and you gotta look after it until you're dead, I'd be like, Nah. I like what sharks do. I like how they just have the baby and then just fuck off.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

I just um that's uh you know what's funny if you say that, because on my desk over here, I happen to have a shark and food.

unknown 14:54

Wait.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Do you have what to?

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Here he is.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Oh my god, dude. We're twins.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

I won mine at a Dave and Buster's.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

Oh my god, my uh my uh my my papi, who's uh he's my I basically is my father, he's my stepdad, but growing up, he entered I was a teenager, so dad just was too weird. But uh but he got me this at a um Joe's crab shack. Which sounds like the worst name for brothel ever.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Oh my god, but the buffet would be outrageous.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Oh gross. Oh my god. I don't know if this is a thing um in in Europe with gentlemen clubs or strip clubs, but there are some places of ill repute like that have they'll offer food.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

And I'll be like, Yeah, we don't to my knowledge, because I don't frequent them because it makes no sense to me why I would go to a place, get a rock hard erection next to my friends, and then be like, I can't wait for us to uh leave here and not go and have sex with anyone and just sit next to each other until these die down. Can't wait. Makes no sense to me.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

See, I've always wondered about that too, because I I I used to have um like a friend who well, I I say used to because he's no longer with us, but when he was still, you know, but I remember we'd talk about that, and he never saw the point either. He's like, Listen, if I'm that hard up, uh I'll either use that money to buy or rent a porn, because it's people still rented porn, and uh, or I'll just get a sex worker because it's like at least it's honest. It's like you know, it's there's no, you know, why am I gonna I'm I'm sexually frustrated already. Why am I gonna spend money to be more sexually frustrated?

SPEAKER_01 16:54

It's like if you were hungry, you stood outside of McDonald's just to smell it, and then went like, mmm, yeah, I'm really fucking hungry now. Anyway, off I go.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

You walk by the sniffing man.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

Ooh, she's got 20 nugs, got 20 nuggets. Oh, you dirty dog. Yeah, like a filthy slut. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

That's such a good point about being with your with your mates, too, because I'm like, what are guys gonna be like, dude, check this boner out? Like my dick!

SPEAKER_01 17:24

You see what I got going on here?

SPEAKER_00 17:26

Isn't that awesome?

SPEAKER_01 17:28

You like John Voigt in Megaplopolis? Like, what do you think of this erection I got here?

SPEAKER_00 17:35

John Voigt's boner probably is a megaphlopolis, like uh Nah he's got MAGA keeping it rock-up. Oh god, yeah. Miserable. All the all the uh appeal of sour milk gross. Yeah, very gross.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

But uh yeah, so strip clubs, I I think I've been to two in my life. Uh the first time was purely out of like a oh, I've never been to one, I should go. Right. And the second one was because it was a friend's like 30th or 40th birthday, and we were in Portugal, and he was like, I really want to go, I really want to go. And I was like, Alright, I guess I'll go f spend like seven or eight bucks on a bottle of beer back when I was drinking.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

And it was just like, This sounds rubbish. So then I would just sit there, and like they would get dances, and then the dancers would come up to me and be like, Hey, do you want to dance? And I'm just like, No. But if you need to look busy, you can pretend to be hustling me. And they were like, Thank you, I'll be back in a minute. And then they would like go off, do a round, and then sit next to me and sort of chat for a bit, and then go off again. And I was like, Don't worry about it, ladies.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

I love that. You were an at you were an ally.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

I was, I really was.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

If there's any, you know, yeah, yeah, no, because I have I have full respect for you know for the anybody who like for all sex workers of any because that's job. That is a hundred percent seriously legit work. Um, I've only been to one strip club, but I went out of curiosity because I was with some friends and they wanted to go, and I'm like, well, I've never been, sure, you know, just so I could kind of say I did it. And um it was it was fair. I don't, you know what I mean? It just kind of just seemed like just uh I don't know. I'm like it's uh it it wasn't a very busy night, so I just felt bad because I actually kind of I was like super broke. I was literally just going there to be like, sure, I have enough, I was like you, like I have enough money for a very watered down drink, which I don't I don't drink anymore either. But um, of course, to call what I had alcohol is is a severe over.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

So generous, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

But uh and but then it's like I it was so like I felt bad, like I wanted to tip the because they're working hard. They were there were no dances, um, because there are different there are weird laws in this town as far as like you can't the women can't give they can't touch you, like as far as having dances unless if they're serving alcohol. So but this is Arkansas, like things are kind of a little bit backwards in this region of the country. Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

Yeah, Jesus. It's yeah, uh, which is and there was no prostitutes in Jesus' time.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

Oh and he definitely wasn't friends with them. Definitely were yeah, Lord I if if a lot of these religious people actually acted like Jesus did, if like, and I'm a heathen, so I'm not saying this from any religious point, but uh I think I would be I'd be fine with them. I'm like, cool, you're an angry hippie that hangs out with sex workers and lepers and thieves. I'm like fucking.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Oh my god. Like if they were dope, I'd I'd fucking let them be. But they're absolutely conservatively like oh, I'm repressed. I don't I don't like that I have feelings and I have to tell everyone that they're wrong. And it's like or just admit that you quite like blokes. It's fine.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

Seriously. I'm like, nothing is good, nothing makes anybody look like they want a rock hard penis in their orifices more than being like so worried about gay people.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Honestly, it's the weirdest thing when everyone gets like I have some mates who are still the same way, and I'm just like, just fucking just grab one, man. You'll feel very differently. I'm sure you'll feel different.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

It's just a flap of skin. Have fun.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

Just like Honestly, you've got one. Like every hand you've ever touched has touched a penis. You're fine. Like, come on. Yeah, that's a thought. That's a thought that you're gonna take with you.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

Yeah, well, that's ooh. So I have hand sanitizer. So if I'm at my day job and I have to shake hands, not not everybody's good about washing their hands. I don't care that somebody's touched touch everybody's touched some sort of genitals in their life, obviously. But wash your hands if you're in public, people. It's sanitary.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

There we go. Sanitary filth. That's what I like.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:59

So um Um your uh your backdrop. I was gonna ask you about this the other last time I was on a video call for you. Do you it do you have this uh like it looks like you could do YouTube from here? Is this like a does it look it does it look has it been set dressed for that kind of thing? Because you've got the neon lights, you've got all the other bits, or is this genuinely just like this is your living room or your office and you've told your partner to get out for five minutes while you're doing something? What's going on? Because I love it.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

Oh, thank you. The only thing I have really added for sort of any sort of video visual flair are like the lights, which I need to readjust. But even then, I probably would have done it anyways. The rest of this is organic. This is just like my little office. Um, we were so every place that me and my husband have lived in before was super crazy tiny, very cramped apartments. And so when we and we live now like in a duplex, so it's not like we live in a proper house or anything, but it gave us more space where he has a little little room where he can do like his art and his writing, and I have my little office where I could do writing, and I was and I got to kind of inherit a video editor system because uh and so I was like, Well shit, because I love doing video, I love editing, I love um I like shooting video, I really love editing video. Uh and so, and I'm like, well, you know, this is an opportunity to kind of branch out and start doing kind of video essays, um, which I've done a few for some like Blu-ray releases, and I've done some for uh my uh my very burgeoning YouTube channel.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

So how burgeoning? Are we like one episode in, two episodes in?

SPEAKER_00 23:44

No, no, actually I did in the month of October Just a measly hundred thousand followers. Oh shit, I wish. Yeah, no, nothing, not not yet. I will think positively, but uh no, I've done I've done a few, and actually in October, every day in the month of October, I did a King and Queen of Halloween. I used that as kind of a chance to sort of uh throw a good spotlight on um everything from like artists and illustrators uh that do really cool sort of uh seasonal art to actors and movies and bands, and it got a really good response. Uh it was kind of cool just to try and um that's always my kind of part of my goal with anything nonfiction is to kind of try and expose people to cool um to cool art that they're not familiar with.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Yes, I love that idea of just either being introduced or introducing someone to something that they didn't know before. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Oh, same.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

This podcast has been great because the amount of times that someone will say a film and I'm like, I've never heard of that. And they're like, you've never heard of it, they're like, I've never heard of it. And they're like, oh, that makes me so feel so good. And I'm like, I'm I'm definitely watching it. And I try and find at least one film from everyone's thing that I'm like, I'm gonna have to find that and I'm gonna have to watch it. And that's a fun, so much fun, just sort of being like, What is this? I've never even heard of this director. And it's like some ridiculously mainstream director that everyone else has heard of. And I'm like, who the fuck is this guy?

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Who is this James Cameron you speak of? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Cameron! Cameron! What has he done? A terminator, interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Okay, I have a new I want to terminator. Did I say that right? Terminator. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

That's how it's that's how I've said terminator for quite a while now.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

I'm altering my ver my vernacular on that right now. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

There's certain words that like terminator and uh Spider-Man, as if it's uh like a Jewish lawyer. So I'm always like I always be like, I'm looking forward to that new Spider-Man film. And they're like Spider-Man? I'm like, yeah, attorney at law.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

Spider-Man. Oh, oh but you know, I I pro I might have been game for watching some of those movies if they had been approached like that. I did see the first the first two um that were done by uh yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Um they're fun, they're fine.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

Yeah, I mean the second one had Alfred Molina, which was a huge bonus because I love Alfred Molina. He's and but after that I haven't I was just like I'm good. It's kind of you know, it's like when you try a new cuisine and you're like, that was that was novel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

I'm no longer f I'm no longer hungry.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

No, no, I'm just outside restaurant sniffing.

unknown 26:35

Yeah!

SPEAKER_01 26:39

That's that's why I can't go to strip clubs because I'm just there like that.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

Women love it when guys do that. They're like it's it's a mating couple.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

I've been married and I've had a divorce. Women use it.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Oh no, I love that you uh yeah, that you used your show like that. I mean, that's kind of in a way how we met, because when we when we both got to guest uh on caliber nine from outer space with the wonderful ho with our wonderful host, our captain, who brought us together. He did. And there was a movie because you'd never seen tape heads.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

I had never seen tape heads and or night patrol.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

I hadn't seen Night Patrol either until until Rob had mentioned it in the previous episode I was on. And I kind of heard of it because I love like Jackie Kong for Blood Diner, but um Which I bought the Blu-ray of. Yes. Oh my god, have you watched it yet?

SPEAKER_01 27:34

I have. What'd you think? I preferred it to Night Patrol.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

I prefer I prefer a lot of things to Night Patrol. Like Night Patrols uh it had some good gags. It had good jokes, but they had a lot of bad jokes.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

They had a lot of uh blackface.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

Way too much blackface. Any blackface is way too much blackface, though.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

You know what I'm saying? Just even if Ariana Grande's doing it, it's not okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

Oh my god. Well, oh God, Ariana. I can't I I I don't know how you feel about wicked. Uh uh, is it are you being as inundated like every like you just go to the store and there's like something wicked?

SPEAKER_01 28:14

So much wicked.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

Something wicked comes this way indeed.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Oh, I wish it was something wicked comes this way. Right? Like, you know, give me more Ray Bradbury. No, like that there was my buddy Sam, he is absolutely in love with Jonathan Bailey. So every time I see him, he's like, Have you watched Wicked yet? And I'm like, no. And he's like, Jonathan Bailey's so fit in it. And I'm like, I'm sure he is. Like, but I don't have to see Wicked to know this. I'll just watch him in that new Lost World. Like, yeah, Jurassic World film. And he is a fit man, he's gonna be he's a beautiful man. But like it's like I don't need to watch four or five hours of Wicked to see one guy. I've got Google.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

Yeah, I was just saying, you could just do like a Google image search and get that dope with me. Yeah, yeah. Now I and and I I try, we'll kind of get into this when we get to one of the later questions. Um I I do, I will always preface this, I hate gatekeeping, and I genuinely think if something even if it's something I hate, if it brings someone true joy and passion, I think that's beautiful. It's not hurting anybody.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

That's if someone enjoyed it, that's all that matters.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

Exactly. That said, um, every time I see a clip of Wicked or Sequel, I'm I don't I know I recognize I'm probably not the demographic, but like I don't get it. It just looks like it just everything just looks too polished for me.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

It looks like one of the most high-end SNL skits that I don't want to watch. You know? Like the Deadpool films are the same. They're like, oh yeah, this looks like a real fun bit on SNL. Uh, which I won't watch because, you know, no one does. And I'll just move on with my life. And I, you know, everyone will tell me I'm missing out, and I'm like, I'm sure I am.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Yeah, I I'm I don't think we are. I really don't. I I am my I gotta say my gut feeling on that, I don't think we're missing a damn thing.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

I I watched The Dentist 1 and 2 the other day. That'll do that's that's what I'd rather watch.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

Wait, are you talking about the horror movie with Corbin Burtson?

SPEAKER_01 30:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

That's a kind Brian Usner.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

Yes, oh god. He did do the second one too. I don't know as much as the second.

unknown 30:24

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

I love Yasna. Society is one of the greatest horror movies ever made.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

Love society.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Like just him, um Stuart Gordon and that uh Albert Pien, like that sort of trifecta of just like, oh, you are just making whatever the fuck you like. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

It makes my heart so happy that you mentioned Albert Pyon. Now I will uh before I get into Pyon, I will say I love Stuart Gordon too. And I love and the fact that he you know he had a theater background, like he actually had started formed a theater company called The Living Theater, I think, or was it the Living Theater? No, no, the Living Theater is Julian Beck, Organic Theater. It was the organic theater with his wife, Carolyn Purdy, and they relocated to Chicago in the 70s, and one of the big actors that was part of that company was Tom Tolls. Tom Tolls was one of my favorite actors like ever. I love him. And most people probably are familiar with him as being Otis and Henry, um, which, yeah, have you I but have you seen Henry Portrait of a Serial Killer? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you like it?

SPEAKER_01 31:31

I did.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Yeah, it's brilliant, right? It's a masterpiece. It's it's it's no fun.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

Well, that's the thing. I was everyone was sort of saying, like, oh my god, it's so horrible. And I was like, it's not that horrible, it's quite nice.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Yeah, it's beautiful. That's the thing. John McNaughton as a director is I think he's so compelling. I think he's a great director, and he that filmography is fascinating because like each film is a very much its own thing. Like he he's an auteur, but each film is so like he's not afraid to do different genres. Kind of like you're talking about Peon and Gordon and Yasna. These are guys that just do what they do, and we love them for him. But the thing that amazed me with Tom Tolls is that because the first thing I I remember seeing him was Henry, and he's Otis. And Otis, to be honest, creeped me way more than Henry out as a character. Otis Otis made my skin crawl.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Like Hen Henry is just he's I don't know, there's something I can completely understand. Like, right, something's not wired right, you are killing. Cool. Right. But Otis was just like you are a wild card. I don't know what's going on, and that to me, I just I can't I can't deal with that. It's like that's the idea. Like a wild card is worse than a crazy person, because a crazy person is straight up and down crazy.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

Well, and I think with Henry as a character, in a he has his own weird sort of morality. Like when Otis tries to hit on his sister, he's like, Otis, don't do that. And automatically you're almost like, yeah, Henry's the good guy. Henry is the good guy, but he's obviously not, but compared to but compared to Otis, and but then every year later, seeing um Devil's Rejects, or no, House of Thousand Corpses, because that's the first one. And and I'm the I was like, the guy that plays Officer White L. I'm like, who is this very like masculine, kind of handsome man? And then it like midway, I was like, oh my god, it's Tommy.

SPEAKER_02 33:29

I'm like, that's you can't trust him as Otis.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

I'd like well no, I was just because Tom Dolls was such a distinctive looking man, but like I'm like, God, what a brilliant actor. Because he really, despite physically being a very striking guy, can shape shift and it really do that. I'm just like, that good, that guy's amazing. But Albert Pion, you just oh, Piyon does not get enough love. Like, where is where's where's his accolades? Like, he's got so many films that aren't on DVD, even. Like much less like Down Twisted.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Have you seen Down Twisted? Oh I I I just watched Cyborg.

SPEAKER_00 34:08

Oh my god, I need to re-watch that. I haven't seen that one since I was a kid.

SPEAKER_01 34:11

I read up and apparently there was uh he his original cut was like nearly two and a bit hours long, and it was black and white, and it had narration, and it was essentially a Masters of the Universe like sequel. And it was like, what the hell? It's called Stringer or Stringers because of the thing. And I was like, what the fuck is that? That sounds sick. Like, why aren't we watching that? And then I was watching this one, like Cyborg, and I was like, Yeah, it's pretty dope too.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

But yeah. I love I love now. He I got to interact a little bit with him uh towards the end of his life on on I mean on Facebook. It's not like I could have borrowed money from him or anybody like that.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

I'm sure he didn't have it to lend.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

I had done probably not. Oh um, neither did I, though, so that's fine. Uh but um I had done an article on Down Twisted because uh and I need to continue this. I'd started a project dedicated to Charles Rocket, who's a great yeah, great. I saw him on your website.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

Yes, I love I love how I just love seeing Charlie Rocket anywhere and then always horrified by what happened. I always I remember and I'm like, oh god, that's fucking miserable.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

But yeah, yeah, and that's and that's part of the reason why I wanted and I I will I will kind of continue doing that this year. I kind of got sidetracked as I often do, but uh because I I'm like people need to remember him for his work and just because he he's great, he's great in everything.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

And uh Dan Twisted, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:41

Down Twisted gave him a chance to be a lead, and and he's phenomenal. But that whole movie, like it's stylish, it has a fun plot, um, a really great cast. You get to see uh Tom uh Matthews from Return of the Living Dead as this bleach blonde, like new wave kind of looking hitman. Like he is very I know it uh but I got a really nice message from from Albert Pion about that piece, and he he seemed like a like a doll. Yeah, he seemed like such a sweetheart. So I was really sad when he when he passed because he's made some cool movies. I really like uh Alien in LA.

SPEAKER_01 36:19

Well, um Rob was trying to on Caliban I was trying to say, like, oh, when are we gonna next get you on for like a one-off? But he was like, Do you have any old, like, do you have have you picked up any VHS recently? And I was like, I still have Nemesis 2 and 3 I haven't watched yet.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

Like Oh wow, which I haven't seen this either.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

But I've never seen two and three. But didn't he do all like Albert did all three of them, didn't he?

SPEAKER_00 36:42

Uh probably. I'm mainly just familiar with the first one.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

Definitely got the first one.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

It's been it's been years, but I remember it being super cool.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

Like that split second and um hardware. Split second is so dope. I love that. Like I love that era of sci-fi where it was all just sort of like this is just essentially the 80s, but uh a bit fancier.

SPEAKER_00 37:05

Okay, please make that. You need to do an article or something on that and call it that. It's a it's a yeah, a like just like the 80s, but a bit fancier. These three science fiction films.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

Yeah, what I consider a bit fancier is a bit fancy. It's a bit fancy, you know what I mean? Just uh fancy.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

I've never ever heard anybody refer to fucking hardware as a bit fancy.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Hey, come on, it's a bit of a fancy.

SPEAKER_00 37:35

I love hardware. Like um, and the fact that like it has Carl McCoy from Fields of the Nephilim in it, like, because I love Fields of the Nephilim, and it makes sense though, because Richard Stanley did do uh the music video for their song uh Preacher Man, which is a great video. Yeah. Great song.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

God, he did he definitely did he did the first four Nemesis films.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

There are four?

SPEAKER_01 38:02

There are goddamn. Uh wait, he also did Cyborg Nemesis, The Dark Rift, which is a feature-length film that's rated eight out of ten on IMDB, so you know it's good. Um I believe there's like five or six uh cyborg films. That isn't um Nemesis. Nemesis? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

That is insane. That is I would have that's insane. I would have lost out that.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

Yeah, I I I I'd have said four maybe, but no chance. But I am uh yeah, I think I'm gonna go on Rob's show again and uh Yes, how we love Rob. Do those three the first three films for sure.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

Oh that will be fine.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

On VHS because it's proper.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

It's how it's like I don't think there's any Blu-rays, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

The first one's on Blu-ray. I have the first one on Blu-ray.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

And I think there's a box set of all of the others. Like you get a disc for the first one and then a box set for all of them. And I was like, well, who knows if they're gonna be any good. Um and then I found the VHS for like a couple of bucks uh in a second Hatton place in town. I was like, well, I'll get these nice like that's that's how it should be.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

So I always love it when you get a a used VHS that still has the sticker of like whatever rental shop had had it.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

Yeah, I like that.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

That always feels like a nice little extra sort of win.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

Or like I picked up these uh Teenage Minch Turtles VHS the other week.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

I was eyeballing those, yeah. So it's nice hard. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

Oh, well that's the beauty. Like in the UK, they're all hard shells. Like we have one that's a slip cover, and it was from my father-in-law, and I was like, I didn't even know we did them in slips, like all of ours are hard shells. And um, but yeah, I I found these, and it's always like when there's like a kid's name written on it because it's their tape, and I'm like, ah, sick. Someone loved this video.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

Oh, I love it. I've never seen that with uh with movies. I found that with records, like because I have some I've already used vinyl. Same thing. So and um in fact, a friend of mine used to give me a hard time because I have a album called Sounds of Terror. And uh somebody named Toby had previously owned that, and so my my friend Scott used to be like, Toby's gonna come back for it someday.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

They're coming to get you. No, I've got um I've got a a Beatles album which I got off my dad, and it's uh rubber soul, and it's one of the original two-week pressings where it's like mixed just too loud, and it's the it's quite a rare, you know, they if you're gonna get rubber soul on vinyl, that's the one that collectors go for because it's that. But there's uh the name Fiona written on the back. And I said to my dad, like, Who's Fiona? And he was like, I don't know, maybe a girlfriend, maybe not. I was like, Oh really? And he was like, That's yeah, I just bought I must have just borrowed the record, I don't remember her, and then never gave it back. And I was like, No, piece of shit on your dad.

SPEAKER_00 41:04

Justice for Fiona.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

She's had plenty of time to ask for it back.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

She had a crush on your dad, and she he's like, Oh, can I borrow that? And she's like, Yes. Of course, of course, Bobby. And then like your dad just ghosts are like deuces.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

I'll see you later, butch. And then just be out.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 41:25

No, my dad is uh an ex-hippy, so he's there's no way that he would have been like that.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

Um he had good taste though.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

If he was uh kind of hippie listening to rubber soul, that's oh dad's more uh like I'm surprised dad had uh rubber soul because dad's more of a stones, you know, that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 41:45

Like oh wow, okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

Yeah, like dad's dad's more into that kind of stuff. Um he was it, he learnt the flute because of like Jethro Tull or something. He was like, Oh, I gotta learn it because that sounds sick. So like that's the kind of stuff my dad's into, like that bluesy rock, but like more rock and roly stuff. I don't know. It's good.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

Right. No, no, that's that is that is cool. That's um so you is that the kind of music you got to grow up a lot hearing?

SPEAKER_01 42:13

Yeah, that and sort of like Jimi Hendrix, a lot of like 60s, 70s rock, the doors, all that kind of stuff. And then I probably got to about a teenager, and because I've I'm of that perfect age group where things like the offspring were like and slipknop were just starting to get like just here's here's music that's like popular, and it's like, oh sick. I like I like this pop punk stuff and I like this sort of like metal stuff. This sounds pretty good. Yeah, and then I was into that for a while, and then my friend Rich uh Fox, who's a horror writer, he I he and I used to be cinema projectionists together, and he was the person that really was like have you listened to White Zombie? Have you listened to Converge? Have you listened to like and then most of the music that I now sort of have stemmed from like it's because of him, and yeah, like Life of Agony was a a big ban that I like got into because of him as well. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

Oh man, that's so that's so cool. I um now I music, I've been very lucky because I growing up the first like probably 12 to 13 years of my life, it was pretty much just me and my mom. Like she was a single mother, and she is, I mean, to this day, still very much a big reader. So I grew up with a lot of literature, um, a lot of music, and a lot of um as much film as we could get. I mean, this was early um like early mid 80s, so a little bit like video store trips, but those were kind of a treat because we were pretty poor, but uh, but just as much as what we could ever get. And the thing is like that always amazes me uh is that she's always been a bit of an omnivore with music, which is super cool. And but she's rigid in other ways, because like I remember. Uh in my teens and see I when I was in my teens, yeah, I actually I actively when you said offspring, I'm like, oh yeah, I remember when they hit because I you know um because I remember that being a very big band. I like some of their stuff, but as a teen, I got more into uh like like old punk, like old school punk. I got into glam rock, like I was obsessed with Roxy music. Oh nice. Um I got yeah, I got into the tubes, I got into the residence a little later on.

SPEAKER_01 44:31

Brian Ferry was once in the town I live in, right? Oh shit. Yeah, and because his son went to the school, not that I went to, but his son went one son went to like the private school that is in uh the town I live in. And like one morning I was just walking through town really early, and I just looked at this guy, and I was like, That looks like fucking Brian Ferry, and he just kept looking at me and then turned to keep looking at me because clearly I had said loud enough, like looks like Brian Ferry. And I think he was gonna be like, I am. I am Brian Ferry.

SPEAKER_00 45:03

And I was like, Oh shit.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

I'm gonna have to keep walking.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

How many, well, yeah, how many people look like Brian Ferry? Like, legit. Yeah. That's a very that's a very distinctive looking man, very stylish. Um, but no, but I also got into like uh exotica music from like the 50s and 60s. Like I was a very weird, I was a very weird, and I'm so normal now, so that's fine. Um but but uh but I remember she really got into Metallica. Uh like and I mean like she was buying bootlegs off of eBay levels. Um yeah, and I remember one once I was uh doing homework and I had a Martin Denny album playing, and I think it was called Exotic Night, of course, and she she barreled through my room and she was like, turn that elevator music shit down. And so that's like put the black album on in here, motherfucker. Yeah, yeah, it's like I'm trying to I'm trying to listen to this bootleg from Master Puppet's tour, you know.

SPEAKER_01 46:07

But uh it's not just you that's gonna fail, the gods also gonna fail. Now get out of here.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

That would have made that story even better if she had said that. You just you made that so much better. Um but no, but I always I always love it that I feel like a lot of us who get really into art who are very creatives. I'm always curious, like what are the things that kind of stoke those fires when you're like a little formative person?

SPEAKER_01 46:38

Because like my dad's not well my mum and my dad, like they're not they're film people, by all like they love film, but they're not horror people. So horror was just not something that we were introduced to as kids. Like so it's so weird that now I've discovered horror like as an older guy and sort of been like, oh, well, there's fucking loads here that's fucking excellent, but uh it just wasn't on my radar when I was younger.

SPEAKER_00 47:04

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

And uh you know, I mum and dad were really into French cinema. So like in a non-pretentious way, we were shown just lots of like French films because they were fun, they were silly, like usually because it's French, there's like they're quite slapsticky, so you don't really need to know what they're saying, like it's funny as it is. So you just watch those kind of things over and over. And then you don't realise how that affects things down the line. You don't realise how that's like the formative of like, oh, I understand European cinema better than I understand other cinemas because that's what I was raised on. And then when you look at like European horror, you're like, oh yeah, like this is following the same tropes I I've seen, and there's what would be it's a bit like South Korean films have such an odd dark humour to them that if you're not in tune with that, you might think that they're really depressive. But actually, I find South Korean films to be hilarious because I see what the jokes they're trying to make, and it's sort of like, oh, that's okay, and that's from European cinema, where everything's a bit like, oh, it's so horrible, woe is me. And you're like, ha ha ha ha, yes, misery is funny. You know, and like those things build and same with music. I think it's all the it's all just you know the derivatives. Where where did that come from? Where did that come from? Where did that come from? And now let's start from there again and see if we get to that same point. And I like that.

SPEAKER_00 48:33

Right. No, I love that. I think that's I think that's such a great approach to anything, anything creative too, is just trying to figure out like what are all the little like like little genetic ties, you know? It's it's where did where did this come from? What was influence? Like something I always find super, super compelling about a lot of 60s, like hard, like hard rock, and some of the most innovative drummers, like particularly, like say, like whether it's like Charlie Watts or my favorite Bill Ward is one of my favorite musicians, period, ever. I'm a huge Bill Ward fan. And um, is that these were guys that love jazz?

SPEAKER_01 49:10

Yeah, big band is.

SPEAKER_00 49:11

They were super, super inf informed and influenced by jazz drumming. And I just love I love that because you know, there's so many like people that love, like, oh yeah, I love the Rolling Stones. Oh, do you like jazz? Oh, girl, you know, like they're like, oh, fuck that.

SPEAKER_01 49:24

Why are we listening to this jazz? And I'm like, listen to that fucking driving machine behind them. Just fucking go and go listen to some buddy rich and have a little fucking word with yourself, mate.

SPEAKER_00 49:36

Exactly. I I think a lot of times I went people say they don't like something. I feel like I can't help but wonder, like, have you really been exposed? Yeah, though. Because it's like if if like with jazz, if all the only thing you've heard is Kenny G or something like that, you know, well, yeah, no wonder you don't like it.

SPEAKER_01 49:52

Also to say I don't like that either. Right? Like, if you were to say I don't like jazz, to me that's like you sort of go and like, I don't really like vegetables. And it's like right, but I mean aubergine tastes very different from an onion, and they're like, I just don't like vegetables. And it's like what? That doesn't make sense. Like, because there's like in every genre of music, there's your subgenres, and that's when it gets like I don't like very specific doom sort of stoner rock. It's too it's too drudgy for me. I like it to sound like a machine gun is firing. That's what I like my music to sound like. But like to anyone else, m someone might just hear swans and just sort of go, like, nah, I don't like any of that. And you're like, well, hold on. This is very different from other things. Like, this and agnostic front don't sound the same, but you're gonna say you don't like either of them because I don't like any of that. And it's like, oh, you're missing out, man. You're missing out.

SPEAKER_00 50:55

Well, right, that's a that's exactly I'm like, there's such a rich world out there of all kinds of different sounds and visuals. It's like, why would you want to deprive yourself? Like, and I mean that not everything's gonna be for everybody, that's fair, but I mean uh you could pull four films out from behind me.

SPEAKER_01 51:13

You've got Peeping Tom, Pauly, Open Water, and Oklahoma. Like, that's four different genres. And I and it's gonna be great. Like, cause it's why would I pigeonhole myself? I want to watch all of these I want to watch everything. What uh whatever you got to offer, I'll watch it. I will say Pauly was directed by a friend of the family, so that's why it's there. But other than that, everything else.

SPEAKER_00 51:40

Yeah, yeah, no, that's a that's a thing. Like, life is you know, life is a bounty if you approach it the right way. And um, you know, to me, it's just like why I just can't imagine just shutting your brain off like that. I mean, a lot of people do, but uh, you know, this way I can't connect. Like, if I meet somebody and I'm like, what are your what are some bands you like? And they're just like, um, I don't know, I just kind of listen to a bit of everything, and they can't give me specifics. It's like, do you really listen to a bit of everything?

SPEAKER_01 52:09

I don't think you sounds like you don't listen to a bit of a fucking anything. Sounds like you listen to Taylor Swift or Ed fucking sheer.

SPEAKER_00 52:15

Yeah. Oh god, oh, I can't.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

I I will say there are things I won't listen to. Those two people are something I won't listen to.

SPEAKER_00 52:25

But that's but that's it, these are they those are artists that don't need us. They're millions, those people are are they will have more money than we will ever ever have combined. They're fine. They're fine, they don't need us. Like I'm always more concerned of like, what are what is this area that's not getting as much love and attention? Because that to me, that's usually where a lot of the treasure kind of is.

SPEAKER_01 52:45

Yeah, it's it's when people still give a shit.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

Yeah, you know, yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 52:51

It's it's always the way. It's that's why to to get my sports fans out there, college football is better than NFL because the college guys are trying to get that NFL ticket, so they're fucking trying and working harder. The NFL guys have already got their money, they're fine, and the the love goes because they've already succeeded. So you're a bit like, oh, that's not that interesting. Like I'm recently, I've been going back and re-watching loads of filmmakers' first films. Because it's like this is when you've been given your chance to go make something, and you've been given hundred grand, and you've got to go make something. And what do you decide to do with that money? That's what you decide to do. Beautiful, because you're trying, you're doing things. I want to make an imprint, I wanna do a thing. Nolan making the Odyssey, I got fucking zero fucks for. Because I'm like, well, well done, Dickhead. You've got millions. Like you can make anything, and instead you're just gonna do this, are you? Alright, have fun.

SPEAKER_00 53:53

I can that please be on the poster. Well done, dickhead.

SPEAKER_01 53:58

You can quote me on that, Nolan.

SPEAKER_00 54:01

Yes, on the 4K. It's gonna say, Well done, dickhead. Uh Ted from Life About Film podcast. Like, that's a you're like, look, I got a pull quote. Hey!

SPEAKER_01 54:12

I was I almost had one of those once. Uh, and it was on you remember the 2014 sequel of The Blair Witch?

SPEAKER_00 54:21

Uh Book of Shadows?

SPEAKER_01 54:23

No, that was. Yeah, they did a 2014 uh like remake slash sequel.

SPEAKER_00 54:30

Oh, vaguely. I never saw it, but uh I kind of vaguely remember it being a thing.

SPEAKER_01 54:35

I was a film journalist at the time. Uh so I went and saw it, and they sort of said, like, hey, because I worked for a rock radio station, they were like, Oh, can we, you know, use your like your quote for the poster? And I was like, Yeah, cool, let me just get a cushion, I was like, let me get a f uh clearance from my my my producer. And they spent far too long getting back to me that I didn't get it, and I was like, Oh, for fuck's sake. But I'm also slightly relieved because if I had got my like my name on a film post like that, I'd have to have that in the house somewhere, and everyone would be like, Why do you have a 2014 Blair Witch poster? And I'll be like, Uh, I'm I'm on it. You see that? Um that's me. Oh, do you like the film? I don't really care about the film. He says that you thought it was a tour de force.

SPEAKER_00 55:24

Oh my god. That is just sort of like the random poll quote generator, isn't it? Like so-and-so said it's a tour de force. It's a return de force. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:36

The scariest thing of 2020 X.

SPEAKER_00 55:39

Yeah. And you're like, I will I it's it's what there's a podcast listened to uh uh that's about about writing, and the host always says this review's a nothing burger. Because it's not really telling you anything specific. I'm like, it's uh those quotes are usually completely not telling you anything at all about the film.

SPEAKER_01 55:58

And it's I just love it when you learn all that sort of that code and you look at a bus ad or something and you're just like, oh, so it's shit. And everyone's like, but it says it says it's good, and I'm like, look at what it says. It doesn't say anything about it being good.

SPEAKER_00 56:16

Exactly. You have to read between the lines.

SPEAKER_01 56:17

Julia Roberts in a career-defining performance.

SPEAKER_00 56:20

Oh god. Oh, I can't. Is that a career-defining performance? There are there are a few, there are a handful of actors that I'm like, if they're in something, I immediately know this is not for me. Yes. That is one of them, Julia Roberts. Oh, really? Julia Paltro.

SPEAKER_01 56:36

Uh yeah, going with Paltro. Chris Pratt, Chris Pratt for me. Just Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:42

I Yeah, I mean, I I did watch Guardians of the Galaxies because Michael Rooker going back to Henry. Yeah, sure. I love I'll watch Rooker and about everything. I love Michael Rooker. Uh and I do James Gunn did write Tromeo and Juliet. Oh, did he? Oh yeah, he did. Yeah, he that was his first really big thing was he wrote the screenplay for Tromeo and Juliet, which I adore. I love Tromeo and Juliet, and uh he worked on the script for Terra Firmer, which are two of my favorite trauma films. So I have a soft spot, I always have a soft spot for James Gunn for those two movies. Fair. Um does that mean I've watched everything he's done? No.

SPEAKER_01 57:20

I mean, like I said, he also wrote the two Scooby-Doo films, so he's got a box from me.

SPEAKER_00 57:26

Scooby-Doo. I love I love Scooby-Doo the cartoon. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 57:31

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_00 57:32

Like the old one.

SPEAKER_01 57:33

Um I was gonna pick up your well, your Tromeo and Juliet. I was gonna pick up the vinegar syndrome, uh, Tromeo and Juliet with your article in it. I thought, like, oh, I'll get it, and you know, do all of that. And then they did that thing where they're like, for 150 bucks you get free postage. And I'm like, well, I'd get that, I'd get the 4K tank girl, I'd get this. And then I had like Sergeant Kabuki Man in my PD, and I was like, ah my god, I didn't and then I said to Kirsty, like, so I'm gonna I'm gonna buy these five films. She was like, for 150 quid, and I was like, Yeah, she's like, What are they? And I was like, two of them are cat three Hong Kong films that I've never seen before, and I don't think they're gonna be very good. One of them is Tank Girl, which I know isn't that good, and Sergeant Kabuka Man, which I watched once when I was like nine, and it wasn't that good. She was like, So you can spend 150 quid on four films you know aren't that good, and I'm like, I might just try and see if I can get Tremio and Julia on eBay.

SPEAKER_00 58:31

So it's you gotta go with your heart. Yeah, I will say uh I do have an essay on Tank Girl. I did have it on that release too. So um I should have got it. But you you that's hey, you know what? I I would never you go with what you want to get. I have made I have made some purchasing decisions that were I'm amazed at how supportive my my husband is because I'll be like, I I pre-ordered vampire time travelers and I'm like, what it's of course, why would I not? Why would I not? It looks fun, it looks fun. Um I always I always get art house too. I always like to mix it up. Like again, life, like is variety is the spice of life, but um hunched exactly.

SPEAKER_01 59:19

Uh well actually, funnily enough, I diverted those funds and I bought Demons and Demons 2 on 4K. Oh, yeah, yeah. Which you do you have there's some of your work on as well anyway. So I was like, hey, it's all worked out.

SPEAKER_00 59:33

I'm I'm investing your home, is is the point here. Bingo bingo. Um I love honestly though, you can't have too much Lumberto Baba in your collection. Lumberto Baba is such a great director. That was one of the most fun things about doing that, doing that commentary prepping with Kat on that was the just diving into the Lumberto Baba stuff I hadn't seen. And uh yeah, yeah, he's great. I think he's very underrated. Uh, because even demons, like people tend to be like, oh well, Dario Argento produced it. He produced it, he didn't fucking make it, like it doesn't feel like an Argento.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:07

It doesn't feel like an Argento film. That's what's so nice about it, is that whenever I sort of see his name plastered on it, I'm like, okay, I'm not really in the mood for an Argento right now. And then I watch it and it's like and I didn't get one. Perfect. Perfect. This is wonderful. It was really nice, it was so good. Um what else? Oh, I had someone on the pod the other day, and I had to hide a load of my films because they it was Graham Humphreys who did the artwork for like Evil Dead and all that stuff, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He does beautiful work, he does absolutely stunning work, but I had to get rid of like a load of stuff because I was like, Oh, oh, I've got videos here of your work, and I've got like zombie flesh eaters over there, and I was like, I'm gonna have to hide loads of stuff. And then like I told him this, and then he was like, I can see another one right behind you, and I was like, Fuck now, I look like some fucking loser who's a massive fan.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:02

He's like the restraining order will be arriving at your house here in you in a week or two.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:07

I think it's time that we uh stop this interview. No, no, no, Grab. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:11

Yeah. It's like, wait, wait, Grab, why'd you go? Please, please. But yeah, now I don't I I imagine he was honestly quite shocked.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:21

I think I think most people Oh, he's such a sweet, lovely man.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:25

Yeah, yeah. That's and to be honest, there's a different vibe I think you would get from somebody who clearly is just like a film lover. Yeah. Like yourself, who's educated and knows your shit versus somebody that's like, yeah, I think I love you.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:39

It's because I had the I showed you last time, but it's the uh Fabio Fritzy like sign poster from that is so fucking sweet. And when I said that to him, he was like, Oh, cool. So it was like, right, you like the film, you're not obsessed with my work. And it's like, yes, that's what it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:01

I mean, to be honest, I think most most creatives, unless you're like a big name like Argento or De Palma or somebody like that, most artists rarely get feedback unless it's like somebody bitching. So I think it's actually kind of a good thing to let people know like, hey, that thing you did, I love it. That is a tiny can.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:21

It's a little, it's a little mixer can of ginger ale.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:24

Look at how adorable. I was not prepared for your little Lillipush and of Schweps.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:31

I'm Andre the Giant. This is a normal can.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:35

You you were not you were not exaggerating when you're like, I'm I'm unusually tall and broad for my family.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:41

A large man.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:42

I mean I have a regular size, I don't have a tiny can. Like here, it's just like this like thing of like bread spray. This is my little That's a liter bottle.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:53

I've seen one before. This is yeah, this is a I don't think I have anything small. You know what I mean? It's like there's nothing on here that could be Oh wait, I have a glass cigarette, which is quite small.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:06

A glass a glass cigarette.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:09

Because I've quit smoking and I wanted this to be the last one I ever bought. So I keep it on my desk as like a little like there you go. That's the last one.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:20

I've heard I've heard quitting smoking is one of the hardest things to quit.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:23

Because it's so bloody lovely.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:25

I had a friend who was addicted to speed.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:26

Yeah, that's probably easier.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:29

Yeah, everybody was addicted to legit speed, and he said quitting cigarettes was still harder to do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:33

It's because it's so socially acceptable. That's the problem.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:36

Like that would make sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:38

Like I've you know, I've dabbled and had a good time in my life, and all those things were you just s stop talking to those people and you just that's that. But cigarettes, I can go to the shop, buy a pack of cigarettes, and smoke them down the street, and the only person who should tell me not to do it is me, and it's like, well, I'm a fucking idiot. So I should probably smoke. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:03

Yeah, it's it's strange when you quit certain things, because like I I've been like I quit drinking over three and a half years ago.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:11

Congratulations.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:12

Oh, thank you. And it's it's weird because like when I was drinking, I felt like very few people drank. And I was like, oh god, everybody probably thinks I'm a drunk or whatever, probably because you know, I mean, I wasn't I was a very functional alcoholic.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:27

Like I don't think a lot of people probably realized I was an alcoholic, but uh but I knew, you know, lines were drawn for yourself, and it was like, yeah, let's stop doing that.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:36

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And so when when we quit, when both me and my husband quit, all of a sudden I realized, no, drinking, everybody drinks.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:45

Oh my god, everyone drinks and drinks far too much.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:48

Yeah, and it's it was it was such an eye-opener because the minute you stop, you realize, no, I am the minority now.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:56

Because it's you know, which was kind of a uh just blew my mind. I'm like, God, alcohol is everywhere. And it's it's so weird. Yeah, and it's very normalized, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:06

And imagine you if you were to introduce it now, if someone said, Here, here's this little uh drink that makes you go a bit giggly and it makes you be able to deal with all your problems, you'd be like, that sounds very childish.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:20

Yeah, actually, I'd be afraid I was about to either have my organs harvested or be sexually assaulted. That's sexually somebody's getting a drink. This would make you laugh.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:32

You're like I don't know if I want that.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:35

Yeah, um, like I'm gonna have a cup of coffee.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:39

I'm good. And that's the thing, like I don't uh I I wonder if it's if I have a drink, which I I'm not uh a hundred percent sober, but the fact that I I would say that uh having a drink is so rare that that the stars have to align particularly. Perfectly for me to think, oh go on then, I'll have an alcoholic drink.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:03

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:04

It's like, you know, it's like how often do you have caviar? I'm not, you know, teetotal against caviar, but I just don't have it. It's that same deal. It's just sort of like, nah, I'm alright. So the idea of like, well, if you have a drink, uh you'll probably forget what you watched, or you won't remember as much what you watched, or you can't really read because you'll probably forget what you read. Or like if you've drunk too much, you can't talk, or you can't like have a good time, or you might you might make a good joke or a good point and you can't remember it. And I'm like, well, that sounds shit because I kinda want to be turned on if I'm doing any of those things. Absolutely. Then it's uh, oh, and by the way, if you drink too much tomorrow, you won't be able to function because like you had a good time last night. And it's like, right, so if I had a Pepsi Max and watched a film, I could wake up and I'll be fine. Right, okay. Well, I want to watch a film and I want to do something tomorrow, then I'll get rid of the drinking. So it just became such a clear thing of just like I don't enjoy this, and I don't particularly care that people think I'm no longer fun. Because it's like, oh actually, no. It's not that's not boozin'. Boozin's quite boring. Like, it's I don't know. I I think I do get a little bit uh high and mighty over drinkers.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:28

You're turning into Henry Rollins over there.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:31

Honestly, fucking straight edge over here.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:34

Yeah, oh my god, yeah. No, I I mean, granted, I if somebody I'm one of those people, I don't, you know, I don't I want everybody to be safe. I won't I won't say I don't care what other people do. Of course I do. I want everybody to be safe and take care of them.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:47

As long as you're safe and having a good time and no one's getting hurt, I don't care what you do.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:50

Yeah, exactly. But um, but yeah, I don't I don't miss it. And especially when I recognize just like, oh my god, I just feel like there was a lot of time wasted, a lot of money, because that shit is not alcohol is not cheap. I mean, even cheap alcohol realistically is not that cheap, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:08

No, because you're paying for it in other ways. Like boy. I got friends who should be in therapy, right? I got some friends who 100% should be in therapy, and I'll be like, why don't you go to therapy? I can't really afford it. Uh you go to the pub four nights a week. You can afford therapy. That's like just stop going to the pub, go to therapy once a week, and I bet you won't need to go to the pub four times a week. Like I've been in therapy every week for five years. Sometimes I don't need to say anything. Sometimes we just sit there and shoot the shit about films, and that in itself is his own therapeutic ways. But I go. That's that that that means I don't need to don't look at the addiction to buying films, but I don't have to like, you know Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, oops, but uh like I don't I don't I just don't see it. It's like if you're drinking to mask a fear or a problem and you can't afford therapy, stop drinking and go to therapy, and I bet you'll be fine. Yeah, but I bet you're just so much better.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:12

Oh, absolutely. Well, and that's the thing too, is like it's it's so important and vital to examine to have that self-introspection of like why and it doesn't have to be with outgoing, be with anything, you know, even just like a feeling or emotionally like why why am I feeling like this? What you know, if if I'm not happy, why am I not happy? And dude, you're you're worth the research, you're worth the work. I mean, nothing's gonna be nothing's gonna be fixed in a fucking day, especially anything internal, but that's okay. Like it's the journey, everything's a fucking journey.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:43

Just embrace it and just the idea of not questioning anything you've ever done. It sounds so dumb because it's like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Always question. Does that still make like, am I still happy about doing this? Do I still want to do this? I don't. Why not? Because of this. Oh, okay. Alright. Like, I I recognized recently that I was being quite down in my general day-to-day. And someone was like, Do you know why? And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, I know exactly why. And they're like, Do you though? And I'm like, no, no, no, I do, because I I you know, I see a therapist and I think about these things.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:19

And they're like, is there anything you can do about it? I'm like, no, that's why I'm down. Because I can't do anything about it. And they're like, oh, I'm sure there are steps. I was like, I'm not the one that like I'm I'm so if it if I'm down, it's because my brain is finally gone. This is a no-win scenario, you're gonna have to see it out.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:37

That's it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:38

You're just gonna have to wait it out, and then you'll be fine at the end of it. And it's like, okay, cool, I'll just be down until I'm out of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:44

Yeah, life life is not an IKEA table, okay? Yeah, like it's nothing, especially with human emotions or experience, or sometimes just sometimes shit happens in our lives that it's like, you know what? Yeah, certain things suck, and there's nothing you can really do about it, so you just have to just do your best with it and just move on and just see it out and get through it. And that's and that's okay. I think we're maybe fun. Yeah, I I feel like and I don't know why, but I feel like in in our culture, we're not encouraged to be kind to ourselves. Like a lot of us are taught manners to other people, which are good. I love manners, but uh but we're never taught to to have that same sort of feeling towards ourselves, which I think is fucked up, and we're definitely not really encouraged to ask questions in general, but especially Well, going back to the whole thing about children.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:34

You're told to finish school, get a degree, get a house, get married, have kids, and then at f at 45, wonder why everyone has midlife crisis.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:46

It's like, oh, is it because you didn't do the thing you wanted to do? You did the thing that you were told to do, and that's not maybe what you wanted to do. So now you're trying to recapture your youth because you weren't allowed to just be yourself and find your own path. And if you end up in a job with a wife and a kid or a partner and a kid and a house and that's exactly where you want to be, wonderful. Like there's nothing wrong with those paths. If it took you ten years later to find that out, wonderful. Like you did everything you needed to do. I I don't know. I just a lot of things could be, you know, fixed if you just asked yourself, is this what I want?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:29

Exactly. Just why? Just be, you know, ask, ask questions, be curious. That's the other thing, too, is I I love and I and I this so much ties into like, you know, why we love film. It's like why, you know, most people, I mean, we live we live in an age where most people don't even have a tiny fraction of physical media that like you and I do. Uh, but it's because we're researchers, we're curious, we're journey, you know, we're we're on this journey of just being like, ooh, what's this?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:00

And I I was going through uh the collection the other day thinking, oh, do I have DVDs that are doubles of Blu-rays? I can get rid of the DVDs. And I was going through and I saw a DVD of Night of the Living Dead, and I was like, well, I have the criterion, I don't need the DVD anymore. And then I saw the DVD was the colorized version of Night of the Living Dead. And I was like, oh, well, I have to keep that. Because that's a different version, and I didn't I don't have that version. So yeah, it is. It's not just a matter of, oh, I want to watch it and that's it. It's like, no, no, no. Oh no, no, no, I gotta get it.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:31

Exactly. Well, that's why I think it is different than just like then you know, I don't know, people spend a lot of money on d on on shit they don't get a whole lot out of. This is work. This is work, but this is it's art, it's learning. It's like when you have a lot of books. That's a that's a library. That's that's a great thing to have, you know, as opposed to like, I don't know, having a bunch of designer clothes or bags or anything like that. That just doesn't really it it it it only has for the listener.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:01

I am wearing uh a car heart hoodie that is four or five times too big. And it's covered in Oh, it bloody is, and it's covered in I hope, paint. That's all I can say.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:17

Were you outside the McDonald's again, sniffing?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:21

Give me that big Mac Sauce.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:27

Don't ever sit it at a strip club. Oh my god. Yes, I'm wearing I'm wearing just a t-shirt with a skull.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:38

I was gonna ask about the t-shirt. Oh, nice, I like it.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:41

And and just a old, old cardigan that's already got holes in it. But it's comfortable, so fuck it.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:46

Fashion Easters. Fashion Easters.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:48

Yes, work over here.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:50

Uh I need to get a haircut. I'm not gonna, but I need to fucking happy. Well, I every every year I shave my head. Oh wow. Oh yeah, I it gets too hot. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:04

How fast does your hair grow, dude? You got some thick hair.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:07

Oh, I could show you a six-month difference between completely shaved to back to this.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:14

Like it's really great hair. That's some that's a gift. That is a gift.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:18

Well, I do feel a lot of friends are like going bald, and I was worrying about this bit, and everyone's like, shut up. Like, shut you've always had that. And I was like, I don't know, I think it's only come in in like the last ten years, and they're like, Shut up.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:30

Meanwhile, they have like skulls.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:33

Oh, they yeah. Yeah, yeah, strapping young lads.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:40

And they're like, and you're meanwhile, you're like, I've got this little tiny like millimeter patch of skin showing, and they're they're like, oh boohoo.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:49

Yeah, they're combovers because the they've just got fryer tucks at the back. They got nothing, you know. And like that's the like that's the thing. Like, I I'll shave my head uh in the middle of summer because it got too hot, and then I'll grow it until it gets too long, and then I'll just shave it again. But I got out of sync accidentally and shaved it too late last year. So now it's like oh no, it was too early last year. So now I'm like, oh, this is warmer than I want it to be right now, so I might just go shave my head.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:22

Wow. That's some great genetics, though. That's a lot of a lot of dudes hanging on to those four hairs, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:31

Oh, genuine, you know? And I couldn't care less. Couldn't care less.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:34

You shouldn't. You should you shouldn't. It's just hair.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:38

It's hair. Hair is everyone says to me, like, oh, you'll you'll you'll keep your hair, and I'm like, and if I don't, that's fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:44

Yeah, it's just hair is literally dead tissue, it's not really that big of a deal.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:49

Like, uh and I know that's fortunate for people who have thick, luscious not that we're curly hair.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:58

Not that we're flexing or anything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:01

But, you know, I can live without it. I wear a hat all the time. Like as soon as I leave the house, I wear a hat. So no one everyone thinks I'm going bald, and then I release this giant mane.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:12

Oh my god, you just like just whoosh, like you're in a a commercial, the wind is blowing on it.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:18

Yeah, it's a st an error, an errant curl sort of tresses over.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:23

I used to get a real Superman curl. Like it really, I used to always get one, and I was like, I can't, I can't have that. I look too bloody handsome already.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:34

I look who is that guy in Wicked that your friend is Jonathan Bailey. Jonathan Bailey. I don't know what this guy looks like, to be honest. I don't know what Jonathan Bailey looks like. Is that does that make me a bad film person? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:49

He just looks like a generic sort of like skinny guy. He's handsome.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:53

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:54

But you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:55

But see, I but I could tell you, I know immediately what David Warbeck looks like. Now that was a handsome man. I love David Warbeck. Are you kidding? Taking a seeking a Fulci.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:06

I just love just like naming anyone. Everyone would be like, wait, who's that? And you're like, go watch some film.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:12

Seriously. Watch the Beyond. It's brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:16

You will.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:17

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:19

I got the Beyond the other day.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:22

I did, I did, I got the I finally upgraded because I had the uh the old Anchor Bay DVD that came in like a metal tin. Oh shit that's long, it's like a lawn box, it's super cool. And I've had it forever. And then I finally, um, I think it was Grindhouse releasing, did this really beautiful, like three-disc working. Yeah. So I was like, I need to get this on Blu-ray because it's it's one of my favorite films.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:47

Second site uh released over here.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:50

Second site do beautiful work.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:52

Yeah, it was really nice. And I realized I had that in Space Truckers and then The Decline of Western Civilization are the only second sights on this.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:00

Oh my god, Rob needs to get that set. I can't believe that. Oh my god, and the commentary tracks are I haven't listened to the one on the third one, but the two the commentary tracks on the first two are so much fun. That's you. Holy shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:16

Yeah, I go from that to that, that to that within about six months.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:21

That's insane. Are you taking vitamins? Are you this is just all natural? That's unmarried.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:29

Um unless it's in my antidepressant, I'm not taking anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:32

Okay. I don't I I have yet to be on any sort of uh serotonin-based med that increased increased my hair production.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:42

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:43

Yeah. No, no, no, shit. No, of course I'm on meds. Like, I think we're all kidding. What are we doing?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:49

Brawl dogging this life? Get out of here.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:51

Right. I'm a I'm a fucking artist. I'm sensitive as shit. Of course, I need somebody to get me through this.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:59

I had a breakdown because three people asked me a question at the same time, and I was like, fuck off. It's too much. Oh my god. It's too much.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:08

It's it's it's funny you say that because I um I I very recently, like as of just like around the holidays, got diagnosed uh with I have late like ADHD. I've never divergent. I had no idea until I'm gonna like You had no idea.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:26

I well until I started researching. Until I started actually researching what made because like a lot of people think ADHD is just somebody acting like they're like they've snorted a bunch of cocaine, yeah, and they're just like climbing the walls, and it's it's not, it doesn't really quite work like that at all. And but one of the things is that oh that overwhelming looks like this hyper focused.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:52

You have hundreds of half-finished projects.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:55

But but you mentioned the overwhelm. And that was that was what when I finally when I started kind of looking into it and being like, wait, I think I might I might be that. And that was one of the there were a few things where I'm like, holy shit, that's me. That's me. Yeah 1000%. It's just that that overwhelm, the whole um extra sensitive thing. Like if especially if you've grown up having people your whole life, and a lot of times they mean well, like it's people that want you to be tough and survive the world, you know, it's it comes from a good place most of the time, but they're like, you're too sensitive, or you're too this, you're too that, and it just makes you feel like you're broken, just makes you feel like you're a fucking broken person.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:33

Simultaneously too sensitive and dead inside. It's like I don't I don't know how that works, but there's times where someone looks a bit upset because of something I did, and then that'll be me for the rest of the day. Like, oh, I should think about that until the end of time. And then if I'm hyper-focusing on something, being so cold and being like, cool, whatever bye, and just being so hyper-focused that I don't even consider what this person's feeling towards what's just happened, and it's like, well, it's it's one or the other. It's I and then it's my brain just explodes, and then it's like, well, you know what, I'm just gonna sit and watch a film, that'll calm me down, and then fucking 5,000 films later, I'm like, turns out I'm not that calm. Let's buy some more films.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:20

Oh god, but doesn't that I it makes me grateful though that we live in an era where we have these discussions and we kind of know we we are understanding how different brain chemistries work, like because I I I feel so grateful for that.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:35

Yeah, I'm such a champion of talking about it with my friends, like the amount of like male friends who would just sit in silence. And I'd be like, you're right, you're okay, you're having a bit of a cry for no reason. No, and I'm like, Really? Alright, you can, it's cool. Just have a bit of a cry. Get it out of you. And they're like, maybe. And you're like, just do it, man. It's fine. Just unload, tell me. It's fine. Yeah, like that's a we can talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:01

I I love that you do it because I think I think that like I think there's so much gender bullshit on both sides, and I think I think one of the most like kind of like deadly things that's put on men is this whole like you have to be stoic, you have to you have to be this and that. And there's also the same, as much as people talk about like you know, women having pressure to look a certain way, and obviously that's very much true. Like that's not not but guys get that too. Guys get that too, and I just I'm like, why can't people just let each other be? Why can't we all just let each this just be people, it's just be individuals, fuck it.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:35

You know stupid, it's so weird that people don't just let you crack on. Uh we've heard a lot about that's a fucking huge no questions. Uh we've heard a lot about um film tastes. Uh obviously we know the things that you write for, they they have a uh a similar theme. Um I'm wondering whether this all stems from the first film you saw. So what was the first film you saw at the cinema?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:02

That was a beautiful segue. Uh and it and it it actually I don't know 100% if this was the first one, but my first memory is being like a tiny, tiny, tiny little kid being taken to see E.T. by my with my an aunt of mine, and I fell asleep.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:24

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:25

And I still don't like E.T.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:29

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:31

I um so it it did, but you know, that might be you could form that as being like, even as a as a small little primordial little tot, I I knew I didn't I I incidly knew that maybe there are certain things like that I am not a fan of. Because E.T. is a film, I know it's very beloved by a lot of people. Um there's something to me, like that sort of Norman rock wellness about a lot of Spielberg's films that I just have never really liked. He's a little treacly. Jaws is amazing. Jaws doesn't have that though.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:04

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:04

Jaws is uh Jaws is a near-perfect movie, you know. Like I love 100%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:10

Like he gets into his Peter Pan complex pretty bad, sort of from close encounters, and then it dissipates by maybe like minority report.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:25

But which which I haven't seen. I do remember liking the color purple, but it's been a long time. I will say this, I do remember liking the color purple. That one almost feels like an outlier to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:34

And Shinla's list. Like they're not really on that on that list, right? Um but like Always with uh Douglas and um uh Richard Dreyfus.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:47

Isn't Richard Dreyfus in that? No wonder I never saw that. Gross. That movie looks disgusting.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:53

John Goodman.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:55

I do love John Goodman. I do, I do love John Goodman. I always oh, do you have Always?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:02

Oh, I always do. And Holly Hunter. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:05

I love Holly Hunter, but you know, you know what's a better movie with John Goodman? True stories. True stories is a true thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:12

Oh, I haven't got that one.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:13

Oh, you should get it. It's so good. It's so good. Got that great talking heads music. Tito Loreva. Lorre, I can't say his last name properly, but he's great. He's in it. He was uh member of the Plugs, one of the greatest LA punk bands.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:27

So nice. So with E.T. not sitting with you, what is it that was it as a kid, was there something that you just was like, fuck this Elliot? I don't like I don't like how he's stolen this alien.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:41

I because I remember seeing it as a as a still small child but older, because E.T. was everywhere, like on video. And it was I just thought a lot of it was bor it was boring and stressful because I this this poor creature has been, you know, he's not where he should be. He's not home, he misses home, he's misunderstood, he's being possibly tortured. Um, so it's either boring or stress, and those were two emotions I really am still not a fan of, and I really wasn't a fan of as a child.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:17

I can I can get those for free. I don't need to watch them to get more.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:21

I call that every day. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:23

You know what I mean? Why would I watch the bear? That's just living.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:30

No, but but as a kid, I I always instinctively just leaned more towards like I would say I was a monster kid. I always leaned more towards like horror and anything kind of fantastical like that. And also I loved old cinema. Like I um some of the earliest books I I remember ever having my little hands on was like my my mom would check out movie books from the library. And oh nice, yeah. And in fact, I've my first crush ever was on Bell. Ola Gosi because I remember seeing this picture of him as Dracula at like I was like four or five and I was just like just fascinated. I'm like, who is this beautiful? Like, who is this beautiful man? And of course I love Dracula. Um, so yeah, I was just like a little weird sort of monster kid, but I loved reading about and and watching old like old Hollywood. I loved silent cinema as I got a little bit older. Like I loved Claire Beau. Um love the German Expressionists. Um, those were the things I got really into. So looking back, it's like, yeah, I was never gonna be that kid that loved E.T.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:33

Fair. So E.T.'s a weird one because I remember uh it terrified me. The sort of the the late night shot where she's like the lights on and he's trying to throw him some Skittles or Reese's, whatever, and it's dark. It's that I found scary. And then when he was all pale and wet in the wood, I was like, that's too much. I can't deal with that.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:59

It's it's weird, it's weird because I know people that I loved Gremlins. That was the movie I did love as a little kid. And I mean, come on, show Dante, and the little gremlins are so cute. Like, I actually think my first Halloween costume ever was stripe.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:12

I was oh nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:13

I have there's somewhere my mom's got a picture of like me at like like four and dressed up like as like a this the evil gremlin. Like, Jesus, what does that say? I wasn't even gr I wasn't even gizmo. I was I was yeah like I was the mean gremlin, but um uh but people like oh that was that movie scared me. And I I I do objectively understand that being being scared by it, maybe as a kid, but I thought E.T. was way more tr traumatic and then it bored me. It was just like the worst, the worst combination. Um yeah, I just did not care. I still don't care for that movie. Actually, I'm still like fuck that movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:52

It's one of the like of Spielberg's early work, it's the first one that I bail out on, if you know what I mean. Yeah like I love Jaws.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:03

Jaws is brilliant, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:04

I have Jaws in almost every format. Like nice just uh it's it's what I need in life. Yeah, just to complete that. Um and then like Close Encounters is another one that I absolutely adore, Close Encounters. Yeah, but then ET, I'm just like I don't know about you. And then we get into Raiders, we get into all of these ones, and like, oh, these are fun again. But E.T., it's I I get it, I have it on Blu-ray, but I never rewatch it.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:31

So oh no. Uh I do have an action figure of Captain Quent. I mean, I'm sorry, if I see Robert Shaw, the doll, of course I'm gonna fucking get it.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:43

I couldn't get uh Robert Shaw.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:46

Oh no, who did you get Roy Schneider? No, no, no. I love Roy Schneider.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:51

I got your favorite Dreyfus.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:55

You got Hooper.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:58

Hooper!

SPEAKER_00 1:30:59

Do you do you at least like make that doll do like embarrassing things?

SPEAKER_01 1:31:03

Like I just make him do coke all the time.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:13

They're your little McJagger doll.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:15

They're just just fucking snared rails. Snort rails.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:19

Woo! Abalad!

SPEAKER_01 1:31:23

He's actually next to a Bill Murray action figure. So oh well.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:27

I like Bill Murray. That's great. Yeah. Bill Murray seems like he'd be fun if you're gonna do hard drugs with Dreyfist to me just seems like he would be like annoying. Even me annoy annoying. Like it'd be a mix between being the biggest ego in the room and then being like, yo, what do you think about this? I don't know. It's just I couldn't, I can't.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:47

I can't ask you about philosophers, and you'd be like, oh, fuck off, mate. Just fuck off. Like that's not why I'm here.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:54

This is a meet and greet. Stop doing coke on a Friday. Like, yeah. No, I when it comes to uh my action figure collection.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:04

As an adult over here. Uh I really are ground-ass people. Right. I got the shelf where it's uh there's a Kevin Smith action figure, there's uh a Bruce Campbell, well, there's a Cash Evil Dead.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:17

I love Bruce Campbell.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:19

McCready, I love him. There's a McCready, there's a Goku, there's a Mandalorian, it's kind of like a little hero's shelf. And then the shelf above it is just uh Teenage Wheat Inch Turtles figures from different generations.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:31

Nice. The span of the turtles.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:34

Honestly, I've got the ones I had from when I was a kid.

unknown 1:32:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:37

And I've got the like the NECA fancy ones that they're oh NECA.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:42

God, I love NECA. They do the best. They the best work.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:46

These ones are lovely. And then I've also got the most recent like Newton Mayhem iteration of them. And I just found out you can get them in like uh samurai outfits. So now I'm going to Toy Fairs looking for the samurai ones. So nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:01

I you know, I actually do have a Ninja Turtles related figure. It's a two-pack, and this is the most me on brand thing ever. It's David Warner. It's David Warner. It's his character from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Part 2, Secret of the Ooze. And I, because I love David Warner. I've actually loved David Warner since I was a kid, actually, because I saw wax work. Okay. And I was like, who is this beautiful British character actor? And I've just been I I love him ever since. And so when I saw that there was a they don't advertise it as a David Warner action figure, but it is. It's literally him. So I had to have.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:46

You said it was a two-pack. Who's in the other?

SPEAKER_00 1:33:48

It's it's just him in a different outfit. It's just two David Warner's. Two David Warner's. It's like it's like it's like fanfic or something.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:57

Because that's man. Because they did a they did a double pack of Casey and a double pack of Shredder, but both of them came with a variation of a turtle. Which is like I was like No, it's not. Because I bought all the turtles. If I buy Casey, I'm gonna have to get a second of Raf. And it's like I don't want a second of Raf.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:21

I just want, you know. And it's Raf in his, you know, Bogart, but I don't want it. Do you have David Warner though? I don't. I don't know. You need to get the David Warner.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:33

Did you get the uh did you get the 4K boxes?

SPEAKER_00 1:34:40

I I do not have that, no. That's beautiful though. Look at that.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:45

Gorgeous.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:46

Arrow. Arrow bring it. They uh know what they're doing. They they 100% know what they're doing. That um that set they did uh a few years ago of Last House on the Left, I thought was was really great. And um that has an amazing commentary track with Bill Ackerman and Amanda Reyes. That's like a top-tier commentary track, I would say. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:10

What other ones have I got recently? Too many. Too many?

SPEAKER_00 1:35:16

That's just I'm getting lost trying to eyeball. Like, what does he got over there?

SPEAKER_01 1:35:21

That's it's when you get up there.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:23

Whoa, oh beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:25

Like they're just criterions I haven't watched yet.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:28

Oh god, yeah. I have that stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:32

The these are bought haven't watched yet.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:37

Okay, yeah, I have that.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:38

That's there's some in here I've seen before, so like the Matrix trilogy, but a friend of mine upgraded his, so he was like, Do you want this? And I was like, Yeah, sure, I'll take it. And I was like, Well, I'll re-watch the first three. But then there's other things that I've never seen before, or I'll find this like the exterminator for one.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:00

Oh god, you know, um the uh the poster, that great poster art, that was designed by Steven Sadion, who's Steven, I'm working on a book about Steven's art. Yeah, Steven directed Cafe Flush and Dr. Calgary. Mental and Night Dreams, which you kind of see my poster. I've got my nightdreams poster back there.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:19

Yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:20

So uh, but uh yeah, so connective tissue.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:28

Um you uh have mentioned being uh early 80s kid. So uh videos and uh video stores rentals were um available to you. So uh what did you watch over and over again as a kid?

SPEAKER_00 1:36:45

Oh god, that was um but you were kind enough to send me these questions in advance, and I'm still like like, oh god, there were so many. I uh because we were because you know we were a little bit more like have tapes were expensive back then. So one thing you could do is like buy like a cheap blank tape and tape something off cables, which I was not of doing. Um there were a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:09

Oh I loved so recording so much of TV.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:12

I loved it I I have some I still have some old like in like in a dusty several dusty boxes. My I haven't thrown out any of the VHS. Uh but uh because I love taping like music videos and stuff like that. Um but um there was there were several films. One um that's kind of an out a really weird one was Bud the Chud, Chud 2. Oh yeah, because of Garrett Graham, like that's the thing, the hyperfixation of I'd be like, this guy's great. And I mean that movie I need to I haven't seen it since I was a kid. I I want to rewatch it. Yeah, just well, it's Garrett Graham. I love Garrett Graham and Bianca Jagger sent it, which is oh, that's weird. Bizarre, yeah. Um Return of the Vampire was one in Balagosi 1943. I had that was actually the first movie I ever owned properly. Uh it was a good times video release, which Good Times was a basically like a gray market. So you could setotapes were very affordable. Um and but Return of the Vampire is actually a really, really solid, great little horror film. I don't feel like it gets a lot of uh people talk about it. That will yeah, no, it's it's super cool. It's it's definitely it's basically it's not technically Legosi as Dracula, but he's Dracula. And but you have this whole thing where he has a werewolf um henchman, and it's set in London during the Blitz, but this was 43. Oh shit. Which is insane. Yeah, so it's it's it's definitely got a lot of things that are very unusual about it, I think, as especially for the time period. And it's got some surprisingly kind of a I wouldn't say gory, but it's got a kind of a grisly uh climax for that era too. It's a it's a gem, I would definitely call it a gem. So that one, um, you know, I loved Beetlejuice. I watched Beetlejuice a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:09

Um, I'm I also love that it introduced me to Harry Belafonte.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:13

Oh right, yes, that's uh yeah. I'm I'm definitely a lot more cold on Tim Burton now as an adult, but uh as a kid, Beetlejuice was amazing I still love Beetle, the original Beetlejuice. Um I mean Michael Keaton, that cast, actually, Michael Keaton, Glenn Shattox, Jeffrey Jones.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:33

I mean Oh, don't that that cast, like young Alec Baldwin and like Gina Day Yeah, oh those two and Gina's so fit.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:45

Both of both of them, both of them just I I I mean, breathtakingly, just like two of the most beautiful looking people. And of course, you get Catherine O'Hara who's great. Um, of course, I had a crush on Beetlejuice because I was a fucked up kid. I was a weird little kid.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:06

I mean, he's also pretty fucking cool, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:09

He was the coolest, it's the striped pants and the humor. I love striped trousers and I love a great sense of humor. So that's why I love Alan Ormsby and children shouldn't play with dead things. He's got the trousers, and he's got the humor, and he's got the swagger. So which is Beetlejuice all over. Exactly. But it's like way before Beetlejuice.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:31

And uh is uh your husband, is he a Beetlejuice type?

SPEAKER_00 1:40:35

Is he He does not look like Beetlejuice, but he does love Beetlejuice, and he does a great impression.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:40

So he doesn't have mold around his hair like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:42

No, no, no mold, no mold. He doesn't look like a undead uh centuries-old exorcist, bio exorcist.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:51

You're missing a trick. Uh Kirsty's Kirsty's childhood crush was uh Meatloaf from Rocky Horror Picture Show and Jack Black. So I feel like she absolutely hit the mother load when she got me.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:03

I feel like I would get along with her so fiercely for that. That is my kind of that is my kind of woman. I love that so much. I I grew up hearing a lot of Meatloaf too, because I loved Rocky. Rocky Horror was another one because I um I discovered that film at age around age eight or nine.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:23

Ooh, nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:24

Which is yeah, and well, it had never there were these ads that you would see for it on MTV, because it had never been released, it didn't get released on VHS in the States until way later.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:36

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 1:41:36

Yeah, and I would see these little ads, and I was what you're gonna say. Yeah, is it uh is it because it's an English film? Like I don't I don't think it's gonna because there are plenty of British films that got released on VHS in a in a more timely manner.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:53

And the reason I paused because I wasn't sure if it was an English film. I was like, I know like Richard O'Brien is English and I know Tim is English, but Susan Sarandon isn't.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:03

Like, yeah, well, and the producer Lou Adler uh is like he's American. Yeah, but but it's like an international, kind of an international cast. Yes, but I I would see these clips for it, and I became obsessed. I was like, I have to see this film. Yeah. That and but I saved up my allowance and I begged my mom. I was like, when this comes, when this gets comes the video story, please rent this for me. And thank god my mother um did. My mom was obviously in is very liberal that I mean within limits. There were films I couldn't see.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:38

Yeah, but you know, um, but she would definitely being one of those guys, it was a different time. Yeah, parents didn't really care as long as it wasn't like well, there's certain films like most Exist.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:50

Right. Well, she wouldn't if if I watched an Rated film, I was always with her. Like she that way, if I had any questions, and she would cover my eyes or be like, cover your eyes, which don't ever tell your kids to cover their eyes because they're gonna peak.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:03

Because that's when it's like, oh now I should pay attention.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:05

Right. You'll be like, Are there gonna be boobs? Is there a butt? I told her, you know, because come on, that's what you're gonna do.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:14

I didn't hear you, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:15

Yeah, huh? Oh no, I'm uh but yeah, but Rocky, Rocky Horror was a transformative film for me in so many ways, because I loved the music, I loved the look of it, I wanted to be a Transylvanian. Um, and I mean just the fact I knew I was an outsider. Like you you know that as a kid, you know you don't fit in. And especially when you you have you realize you don't feel like what you feel like a girl's supposed to feel like. Like you have some gender questions, you have some like sexuality questions, and then here is a film where it's like, hey, if society considers you a freak, that means you're fucking beautiful and you're sexy and you're amazing, and don't dream it, be it. That film has probably saved so many lives and so many, yeah, you know, by being that touchstone for for so many of us who don't fit into some sort of box of what we're supposed to be.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:13

Definitely seeding uh what would be considered the freaks in any other film to be like, well, actually they're the cool kids in this. And it's like, oh yeah, the squares, they're the fucking they're the losers for a change.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:28

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:28

And then you're like, all right, I can get on board with some of this.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:32

Did you ever watch Shock Treatment?

SPEAKER_00 1:44:34

I love shock treatment, of course. I actually um this is all very timely because uh a few days ago I was on Projection Booth and we talked about Jim Sharman's first movie, Shirley Thompson versus the Aliens, but um, which was interesting. It's the coolest Jim Sharman's a really cool director. Um when I first saw Shock Treatment, I was a kid, I'd rented it from Walker's Corner Video. I still remember the video story. And I initially not a sponsor. No, no, no, no, they long, they are logged on. Um, but uh I initially didn't know how I felt about it. I kind of didn't like it, but I was like, well, I want to rewatch it. And then by the second or third watch, I was like, it clicked, and now I actually I think I love it more than Rocky. Like Rocky is the film I needed as a kid, and I always love Rocky horror. I think it's wonderful. Shock treatment is more of a savage kind of thing, as far as like it's got some amazing, very cutting satire, but also in the era we live in, it was very prescient. There's a lot of things in that film that are like, yep, that's that's what we're going through. This is especially in the States. Unfortunately, I won't go too in the weeds, but I will say any I please. I hope nobody ever thinks that a lot of Americans are fucking like that. Okay, like our government's a fucking shit show. Um, but a lot of us are good people and we didn't vote for that, so you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:03

Well, nah, I feel I feel a fool now because this is a MAGA podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:06

God damn it! Damn it. Yeah, it definitely fucking is Yeah, no, um, which but honestly, I personally I say that. I I always get irritated when I've ever heard like American like relatives or friends make something like oh seven says Russian. I'm like, are you gonna define an individual by their fucking government? That's ridiculous. Most governments are terrible to some degree. All governments are terrible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:31

All governments and all countries are shit.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:33

Yeah. Like some some are worse than others, some are better than others, but anybody that think about the kind of people that want to be in power and what kind of humanity that's gonna attract.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:43

Fucking psychopaths want to be in power.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:47

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:48

Normal people don't want to be in power.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:50

Perfect, yeah. Normal people who genuinely care about their fellow, their fellow human, that care about, especially anybody that's um like working class, that's poor, you know, anybody, you know, any population that's gonna be at risk. If people that care, they genuinely care and want to have that social change do not get elected. They do not get put in those positions.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:12

It pisses me off the sort of erasure of the working class that's happening over here. And I just uh it just pisses me off so much. It's like you're gonna take every ounce of funding from the working class, so uh art will not come from the working class anymore, which means we're gonna lose so much, so much unique messages and voices that will just not get expressed because the working class uh uh physically cannot afford to be creative because it's uh work and eat or die. And it's like that is hideous. Only the rich middle class and uh super wealthy can be creative, can they? Fuck off. I've seen enough of what you guys have got to do. I'm not interested. I wanna know what some fucking nobody from some northern town who's never gone anywhere further than the end of her road uh what she can do with a fucking paintbrush. I wanna see what she can do. I wanna see what's in their head that's fucking desperate to get out there, and I want them to be able to fucking get it done. And it annoys me so much that this kind of thing is just so focused on it.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:19

But then these are the same people that will be like, oh well, when are we gonna have the next movement like like punk? And it's like, well, maybe because you guys are trying to literally fucking kill the working class and the poor classes, because it's like you it's like punk was formed and in all its different iterations by people, whether it's you know, no matter what country, no matter what state, by working class artists and by people lots of the sex pistols. Well, well, half of them though, because some of them were working class.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:52

Okay, the ones that you don't know the names of.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:56

Actually, that's the most horrifying story. I always felt bad for Glenn Matlock because that he was he was like middle class, and he's sort of like a nice guy. It's like you know, you can't help who your family are. Like that's you know, but like there's that whole story where Steve Jones like masturbated into a sandwich and gave it to Glenn. I know this fucking haunts me. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, so I was full of bad for Glenn Matlock. And Glenn Matlock was a good musician. I mean, he did the he was in that power pop band, The Rich Kids, uh oddly enough, right? With uh mid year. And they were they did some good, they did some good stuff. So uh but yeah, I know. I'm sorry, I'm a nerd, but um, but no, I agree, no, I'm 1000% agreed. I I I remember getting kind of irritated around the 2016 election over here where Amanda Palmer, I'm not a hater or anything, she's I like some of the Dresden doll stuff, but but she was like, Oh, cool. Well, if if Trump's in power, we can have punk rock again. And it's like, I don't think it it the shit always fucking works like that, ma'am. You know, like 'cause that's you if you're able to make a living solely as doing music, you're at a privilege point that a lot of people aren't.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:09

Past it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:09

Yeah. Um so and it's not that I'm a pessimist. I think people artists are always gonna find a way, but it gets a lot harder when people are having to live so hand-to-mouth.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:21

And and and and it's it's different when you know if your normal day job affords you everything you need, but not your lu not a luxury, right? Then finding time to be creative is not that's what you decide to do. Some people go to play sports, you find time to be creative. Right. But even when you're working two jobs and you're still fucked, like then you're then it's like, well something's not right here, people. Like everyone should have a fucking call me a dirty socialist, but everyone should have a fucking roof over their heads, some fucking clothes, a good education, something to fucking eat. Like give your people in your country everything they need and then anything they want to be, they can be great at.

unknown 1:51:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:09

But if they have to fight just for the things they need, then they're gonna have no energy to do anything that they want to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:15

And well, and it's it's I I know, it's it's so it's so fucking gross. And that's and but that's why I think art is so vital, and that's why it's such an important thing to fight for, and you know, it's something I believe in. I'm not I like it's like I told you earlier, I'm not I am I'm pretty much like anti-organized religion, to be honest. Like I'm not anti-spirituality at all. Like I no, no, no. But um, and I would consider myself somewhat a spiritual person um privately, but I I don't I don't trust anything that doesn't nourish the individual, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:51:52

And if the bank if the bank account is uh front and center, I don't trust you. Yeah, churches seem to be like that. I'm just like, no.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:02

Well, it's just about control. Like anybody that wants to control you, that's immediately who you need to question. And but that's why, again, like we've had so many great art movements. Like, I mean, like with visual arts, it's why we got like the data, we got data, we got surrealism, we got uh like with Hordorowski, the panic movement with him and uh Araball and Roland Toper. And these are all such vital things in God. I mean, like with punk, I mean it's kind of a rote thing to talk about now, just because it's probably kind of been talked about to death. But I feel like people don't ever talk about the things about punk that they should, I guess, you know? Nice where it's just like they just mentioned the pistols, and it's like, what about crass? You know, like what about suicide in New York? What about the fast? Like, there's so many other bands.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:50

Like I I'm not gonna get into it now, but there is a whole thing about the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:56

I'm like, let's talk about music.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:58

But it really annoys me that when people say punk, people go like, oh, like the Sex Pistols, and I'm like, no. Like, they are the fucking Beatles, they are the uh smells like teen spirit of it. It's like let's not, you know, come on. Like my dad, not a fan of Grunge whatsoever. I mentioned Givarna, and he went, well, they were one song though, weren't they? And I was like, right, no. They were two solid albums.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:27

I think you'd say they were two solid songs.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:29

Two solid songs. Two solid songs, fuck yeah. Yeah, um, not even Heartshake Box. And uh it's like they're two solid albums, and like I would say, you know, Smells Like Teen Spirit is the worst on Nevermind. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:50

Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I actually I do love, I do, I would say I they're pistol songs I do love. Do I love the band as a whole? They're fine. I think I love the stuff afterwards. Like uh those those first two or three public image limited albums, way better than any, any, you know, the one album the Pistols did. Yeah, uh Steve Jones and Paul Cook did some great stuff after that band, too, with like the professionals. So uh, but there's so many other punk bands. Like you and I talk about the damned, the damned are such a better band. Like everybody should talk about the damned. The damned are a band that evolved too. Like they they consistently have grown and keep making great music. Like they're not a nostalgia act. Um, thank God. Because that's I mean, it's always kind of sad when you see certain like bands and it's like one original dude, you know, and it's like, oh man. I know people gotta pay the bills, I'm not judging, but you know, it's awkward. It's awkward.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:50

Yeah, sometimes, sometimes they need to pay the bills that bad. Um, so what was the first uh R-rated uh film that you saw? And how old were you?

SPEAKER_00 1:55:02

I mentioned something earlier, so yeah, no, because again, my my mom was she was she was definitely liberal. Um again, like you know, no smut. Yeah, Helter Skelter, which I mean, looking back, there are films that I got to watch that probably would have been more disturbing to me than Helter Skelter, but Helter Skelter disturbed her. Uh so she was like, I don't want my kid watching that, which I I can respect. Um I can't, because I was so young, I can't 100% say this for certain. I want to say probably something like Porky's.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:40

Which went over my head. I mean, you know, I'm like, fucking hell, how big are condoms? Jesus. Yeah. I was just like, oh, there's boots, you know, and then I um so yeah, like Porkies.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:56

I have a friend who like I think he resents that our teenage years weren't like Porkies, and it's like I don't think nobody's teenage years were like Porkies. Nobody's teenage.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:06

It's a it's a movie. It's a movie that's um it's like me watching the worst witch and being resentful that I didn't get to go to a occult academy run by Diana Rigg and have Tim Curry. God, that would have been amazing though. Imagine. I can dream.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:26

You know, you get nothing done.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:28

No, I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:29

Um just looking at everyone like, hey.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:32

That's again. You go to McDonald's later.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:37

That's why that 1000% would have been me if Tim Curry was. I would have made it so weird, and I apologize for it.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:46

Don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:48

Oh my god. Tim Curry almost anything was like sex on wheels. Like, he's hot Satan in legend.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:57

You're like, this this motherfucker's got cloven hooves, and I'm like, ooh, keep talking.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:04

I'm gonna fuck one of those hooves. It's happening.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:08

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:11

No, don't you think?

SPEAKER_00 1:57:12

Well no, I'm trying to make it work in my head, and I'm just not no.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:19

I'll make it work.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:20

I will almost I'll get there.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:22

All right. I don't know how. It might take me some time, but I'll get there.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:26

You know, and it's that it's that uh industrious spirit that I do respect.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:31

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:32

You're very welcome.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:33

But where there's uh will, there's a nut.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:37

There you go. No, no, Torkies almost.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:41

I'm an award-winning writer.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:43

No, all of those, I think almost all of those sex comedies in the 80s were written, were like wish these are things that the right indulgent male fantasy, like wish indulgement, like no one went to school with the the cheerleader who was sucking everyone off and also being completely mentally fine about like her life choices.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:08

Didn't happen. Like, and if there was, I feel bad for her. Like something was going on at home, someone should have checked in on her.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:15

Well, and yeah, the weird thing though about Porkies, because it just hits me, you know who directed that? And that uh that's Bob Clark, who did Black Christmas and My Beloved Children Shouldn't Play with Dead Things. I love that film. Yeah, Christmas Story.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:32

Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:33

That's a wild filmography. That is a fucking insane filmography.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:38

Jealous.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:39

I know, right? Black Christmas story.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:41

Directors don't get to do that anymore, you know. I feel like the only director who has like a wild filmography today is Alex Garland. Like, no one else is just like, I'm gonna do a sci-fi, and then I'm gonna do a horror, and then I'm gonna do someone else. And it's like, alright, crack on man.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:01

I would love to see more of that though. I agree. Like, I would love to see just more like more directors kind of branch out and and do get out of a comfort zone a little bit, you know. I because I feel like the ones that tend to stay very much in their own lane, with exception. I mean, there is like an au tour exception, but even look at somebody like William Friedkin. Friedkin did horror, he did action, he did drama, like he did crime. Um, I think he was one of the greatest directors, like ever.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:30

So Billy Friedkin did some absolute stunning films. Oh my gosh. And like it'd be a it'd be a fucking it'd be wrong to say he was a oh a horror maker. It's like, no no no, like don't get me wrong, sorcerer's got some fucking horrible elements, but it's not horror. And then Jade, that's not very fucking you know. So yeah, it's I think directors, you know what? It's an industry where if the if you make the money doing A and B, you're only ever gonna be doing A and B, so Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:03

But you know, this might I I especially in the last few years I've really been getting into like shot on video movies and filmmakers because I'm like, these are the these are the men and women who have and continue to sort of just be like you're you were talking about working class art. Like these are just regular people that love film, but they're not regular people because they're fucking filmmakers too, you know? Like so they're they're making stuff really on their own terms. And to me, it's it's a pot, you know, they might have a poverty budget, but that's where it's like, what vision do you have?

SPEAKER_01 2:00:36

I just find it uh well there's no there's no budget to your vision, if that makes sense. Like it it if you're doesn't matter how rich or poor you are, right? An idea is good or bad, it is just is. But I uh I'm a judge for a short film festival in North Carolina.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:54

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:55

Yeah, it's I love it. That's awesome. Whenever whenever a big old glitzy, shiny shorts come through, I'm like, yeah, these are good, and I'm gonna hold these to an extremely high standard to like for me to be okay with them.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:09

But today I saw one which was like four friends, and it was shot on a fucking Sony DV camera.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:16

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:16

And you could tell they were having a whale of a time doing it. And I was like, this is excellent. Like, it's five minutes long, so they've not got overly fucking verbose with their dialogue. They've just gone straight in, given us the goods, given us a th there was full structure, there was a full plot, and it was done great. No budget, whatever, but it was clear that I was like, that's filmmaking. That's a group of people got together, made something fun, and it looks it looks shit, but it looks great as well. And so to me, I was like, this I think these guys should win an award over this clearly 30,000, 40,000 pounds short film.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:56

This one should, because this is more filmmaking to me. This is a fun idea that's been executed, this is a paint by numbers, how much money can we afford? Let's pay it. And it's I prefer the little guys doing, like you're saying, stuff on video, stuff on just doing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:13

Let's try it.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:13

Let's give it a go. Let's give it a go. Does it work? Who knows? Let's try it.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:16

It's so much more rewarding, and especially because you you realize like if you have if you have an interesting story, if you have an excitement about how to visually present an idea, and you have just the the the whether it's testicular, ovular call, you know, fortitude, you know, the stones to get it done. Because filmmaking's fucking hard, and it's really hard. Yeah. But it's like I love the idea of just I would like to see more directors that have made big stuff. I'm like, if you're a real director, what can you do for like$200?

SPEAKER_01 2:02:53

Honestly, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:55

You know, like strip it down, go back to basics and see what magic you can make.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:00

I really like Peter Strickland for that, because Peter Strickland, like, he'll make his big features, but he still puts out short films all the time. And you're like, good. Because just because you've got an idea doesn't mean it has to be 90 minutes. You might have an idea that is only 15. And if you're a filmmaker or a storyteller, why aren't you telling that story? If you if it's like, well, I'll only work for a quarter of a million and I've only got to make these stories. I want I want this thing that's a fucking three-hour epic, it's like no. No, that's a job that you need a return on. If you have an idea, you've got the contacts that you can get really good performers, you got a really good crew, you can make it for nothing and do a really good short film. So why aren't you? Yeah, if you've got stories, do them.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:52

Exactly. Yeah, because I just I think the film industry is just so bloated. I think it's really um again, it's kind of a weird parallel punk parallel where it's just like, you know, music was getting bloated, so you had to like do something different. And I think film is definitely especially with Hollywood, where it's like people will be like, oh, this was a low budget film, it was only three million dollars. And I'm like, tell that to somebody who's paying rent, paycheck to paycheck, living paycheck to paycheck, like a lot of us. That's insane. That's insane. Like, show me what you can do for a fraction of that budget, and then I'll be impressed.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:28

Especially when it's things like uh, was it the Electric State, the Russo Brothers film with Chris Pratt and Millie Bobby Brown? It cost 350 million. I don't know anyone who's watched it.

SPEAKER_00 2:04:38

I've never even heard of it. I haven't even heard of this movie.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:43

No one cares about that film. And I thought, like, right, Netflix, you could have given I don't know, what seven? Yeah, seven filmmakers 50 million, could have given 14 filmmakers 25 million. Like one of them might earn you back six peoples. Take the risk. If you could throw 350 million at that pile of shite, no take the risk on other things on uh untested and just see what happens.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:11

But well exactly. Exactly. It's obscene. It's obscene though, and especially because the movies are always like various types of movies. Yeah, like it it's uh I just don't and especially because like all this money and the visuals look like everything else. Like, look at something like The Holy Mountain by Horowski. Like, even if you're not into Hordorowski, that movie visually is fucking stunning. That is one of the most beautiful looking movies I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:46

And then when you find out like even adjusted for inflation, it's not like millions, if you know what I mean. So it's like, so how comes that could get done? How could that get done? Yeah, you know, yeah, exactly. How could Godzilla minus one get made for 10 million?

SPEAKER_00 2:06:00

Yeah. Which I still need to see. I'm ashamed because I love Godzilla. So I watched it the other day. It's good. I've heard it's good.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:09

What was the first film you watched that you considered grown-up?

SPEAKER_00 2:06:12

Oh, uh Pedro Amador's Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:18

I'm serious.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:18

I'm dead serious. Yeah. Um, which I can explain. The reason I even I remember that, because and again, I was way younger than I should have been. Uh looking back, but we when you've got like back then, like if you had cable, you'd sometimes get these little like I don't know if if it was like this, the UK, like these little paper movie guides that was almost like a mini, like sort of schedule. We had it's something like that, but uh like t a TV guide. Yeah, yeah, basically kind of like a TV guide, but like specific to that channel, like a mini version of that.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:51

Uh no, so we had the Radio Times or something, and that was all the channels.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:56

Oh, right. Well, and see we and TV guide was like the main thing, but yeah, when we had Cinemax, which most people over here right now, yeah, I see the eyebrows. Um, the thing Cinemax, I I know, and and and not that I was above that. That's a different question. That's a different question, though. But but Cinemax actually had would show a lot of avant-garde films, show a lot of foreign films. Um and they had, I'm trying to think what it was called. They even had like a name for a specific type of night where it was um oh, I get I'm blanking on it now, but it was specifically like this is our hour for foreign films in art house. And yeah, and uh they don't get enough credit for that actually. That's uh that's how a lot of people saw films ranging from like um I mean that's I saw my first Abel Ferrara film, thanks to Cinemax. And it wasn't Driller Killer, I had to buy that one. That came much later, but which I do love it, but um, to uh like uh Europa Europa and stuff like that. And I remember seeing seeing this about women on the version of Spakedown, and I was like, and I already was like, I want to see foreign films because I wanted to um, I guess for lack of a better term, better myself as a film, as a film person, as a person. And I was super curious and I was like, that looks really cool. I love the title, I love the yeah, the word play of it. Um, because of course I was also a big reader and you know, loved prose and you know, was a I wouldn't have called myself a writer then, but I was a writer, I am a writer, and uh and so yeah, and I stayed up late, probably snuck. My mom was probably asleep because that's how these things usually go, and watched it. And I don't, I mean, did most of it go over my head because I was like nine? Yes, one thousand percent.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:49

It did, but there's a lot of films I've had to re-watch as an adult because I was like, I've seen that, and it's like, hold on, I've not seen this.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:56

I didn't see it, I did see it, but I didn't. Um that was really the first one where I was like, this is a this is a you know, this is me branching out and watching a serial it's it's not and it's not, I mean it's like a a strange, surreal comedy like a lot of Omodar stuff is, but yeah, but multi-var films are definitely uh for grown-ups, they're not oh 1000.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:20

There's there's definitely not like oh kids can get it to it's like no no no, this is this is for adults. Yeah, like that's so that's what it is. And I mean there's some fucking great films.

SPEAKER_00 2:09:30

Oh yeah, no. I was I'm I'm actually I've made a lot of bad decisions in my life, but that was one where I can look back at my my little self and be like, look you go girl.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:39

Well done you.

SPEAKER_00 2:09:40

Yeah, way to go, little mean.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:43

I I I was I've said this uh I think on uh either on a previous podcast or to people recently. I really miss the late night like because we don't have uh like I don't have live TV anymore. I just can't for that.

SPEAKER_00 2:09:59

Same, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:00

So I just have films or uh you know one or two streaming services which like dropout is one of them. Like that's where it's sort of like I'm not shudder is another. It's not I'm not going for the big ones. And so whenever it's sort of like if there's a film I want to watch, I have to source it somehow, hence buying a load of them.

SPEAKER_02 2:10:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:23

I miss just flicking late night and being like, the fuck's this? Like I have no idea what this is. Oh, I'll watch it from here. And then you miss the first 20 minutes, but then you watch this film and you're like, Oh, this is fucking excellent. What the hell is even is this? And then you hope there's a commercial break and they put the title card up, or maybe like something gives you an impression of what the fuck you're watching, and then you watch it and you're like, Well, that was excellent. And Sergeant Kabuki Man MYPD was one of those. I I turned it on in the middle of the night. I was sort of like was awake and I was like, What's on? And I was like, This looks ridiculous. I don't know what this is, and then as a younger guy being like, I wonder if anyone has sex in it.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:05

Yeah, and then like I think there is a sex scene in it.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:08

I'm sure. And um and like I and until like recently, I think I'd only ever met one person who'd ever seen it. Oh wow and it was wonderful that it was just sort of like, oh, and I only know about this film because I just turned on the TV at that time.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:24

Oh god, I missed that. Yeah, I do too.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:26

Mine letterbox lists is the best I can do.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:29

I know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:31

Or making a podcast where I ask people.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:34

Oh my god, no, I because there were some amazing films, like that's how I saw speaking of Ferrara, like Miss 45. I oh because I um as a kid, well, and as an adult, I've always had like problems with sleeping and insomnia, and so a lot of times I would end up being like, Okay, well, I need to I'm gonna watch something because it's three in the morning. I don't want to do, and that's how I saw. And that one was I try like again, like that's a film that will. Change you. It changes it, it will change you in so many ways, and I'm so grateful. Um like really kind of more obscure stuff. Like there's a road comedy called Motorama that I saw that I really loved and had like a weird, it was almost like um what is that? Uh it's a it's a mad, mad, mad, mad world where there's like 30, like 30 famous people. Motorama was like that, but very culty, because like meatloaf's in it for five minutes. And I think Susan Tyrrell's in it. And um, yeah, it's got a wild cast. And so yeah, it has you know anything that's got a road trip. Um, highway, highway 61, which is this great Canadian cult comedy uh directed by Bruce McDonald. Uh I saw that. Um, yeah, cable, like there was an era of cable TV where you like, I mean, a lot of times it'd be also like the same shit and it'd be terrible, but every so often you could change it, you could turn it and be like, oh and cinemax.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:02

Mid-90s through to like mid-2000s. That I really feel like that was the peak of TV and being able to just turn something on and it potentially being amazing or being dog shit but in a good way, and being able to find those things. There was just that peak period of like 10-20 years where it was like, this is great. I love what's going on here, and then you know, stream has ruined it.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:31

Oh god. Well, and it it's weird, it's weird with streaming too, because I find a lot of people just tend to just use it to kind of binge like stuff, which I'm not, I'm not, I'm not gonna shame because I've you know I I mean yeah, everybody does it. There are movies, I mean that's why we have movies that we've seen a lot of times too, because sometimes it's like a comfort thing. Um especially if you are actually neurodivergent, that's a very, very easy thing to do. And I've certainly done it. Uh but um, but I do kind of I do kind of miss that. I am grateful that we live in an era though where we have access to so much media. There's so many films I remember reading about that I was like, I'll probably never get to see that. And now, I mean, and some of those are films I have Blu-rays of, so I'm very I've I've I definitely don't take it for granted, but I do I do kind of miss that too. I mean, that was the same thing with going to a video store though, is sort of the thrill of the hunt where you'd be like, I don't know anything about this movie, but it looks interesting.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:34

Uh take a punt, it looks good.

SPEAKER_00 2:14:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:36

I have a very uh sort of odd rule with my watch list. So I've got about a thousand films on my watch list unletterboxed, and I'm only allowed to buy them if I find them in the wild.

SPEAKER_00 2:14:48

Oh. Oh, I like that.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:51

So, like, I've had films on my watch list for years, and I'm like, I I could go on eBay and buy it for two bucks, but I'm like, nope, nope. When I find it in the wild, I'm allowed to have it. And I picked up uh Calvare, that Belgian horror film from a couple years ago.

SPEAKER_02 2:15:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:09

Like, I thought I would never find that. I was just like, I'm never gonna get it. And then we went to uh like a town a couple of hours' drive away, and I just thought, like, oh, there's a second and DVD shop, I'm gonna go try uh try my luck. And I found like five films from my watch list that have been on my watch list for years, and I was like, oh right, sick, I'll get these. And like in my head, I was like, right, now's the time I'm allowed to watch them. That's it. Like, as you can see, I buy more than I watch, but what film holds a special place in your heart?

SPEAKER_00 2:15:42

Oh, that's why I that's why I brought up because I remember there was one question you had that I'm like, this is the toughest one, and it's that one, because of course, like I I don't know if it's like this for you. I mean, that's a list.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:54

It's a it's very specific on like, well, at the moment I'm really into this, and it's like so, and I'm gonna mention all of the films around it, and then someone's like, I thought you liked Jurassic Park. I was like, I do like Jurassic Park, but I can't mention that every fucking time.

SPEAKER_00 2:16:12

Right. Um so I just went with my gut, and of course, there's gonna be more than one, because that's just that's how I roll. Um the first one, uh Cafe Flesh. Uh I'm of Chris Pugh's, you know, um, I love Stephen's work, and a film has it's unlike anything else, and it has such a sense, a beautiful sense of not only surrealism and absurdism and dark humor, but it's also very sad. It has a lot of melancholy to it. Um, and that always seems to kind of pull me, which is like the the next one is Cassavetti's killing of a Chinese bookie.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:51

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_00 2:16:52

Yeah, that one just breaks my heart every time, but I love it for it. Um, it's uh Cassavetti's was the master, and I talking about confronting hard truths, I think about living. Uh he was able to do that uh in such a way that was raw and graceful at the same time. Um God, there's so many. I hate this because I know there's gonna be some where I'm like, oh, I forgot this Martin, Romero's Martin.

SPEAKER_01 2:17:21

Nice. That one I everything I seem to pick is kind of sad in a way, but oh no, but I I think that's an interesting uh take because sometimes it's there might be an issue with sort of I think maybe with an ADHD thing, of harnessing an emotion when you need it. So sometimes you feel immensely sad and we don't know why. So sometimes it's good to be able to find a film that makes you like, oh yeah, this will make me well up and that will release the valve, and that's fine.

SPEAKER_00 2:17:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:17:55

Like because I can't get there myself. So what can get me there? Or it's just something that like makes you feel. Yeah, and unfortunately, that might be the thing that makes you feel the strongest.

SPEAKER_00 2:18:08

Yeah. There's so many that I'm like, oh um but that's the letterbox top four. Oh god, I don't have a top four. I have a top, like I have a list that's called my nearest and dearest, and it's like I think at 250 or something. It's ridiculous. It's it's absolutely insane. Um yes, uh I would say subspecies two, which I love the first one, but the second one, have you seen are you familiar with the subspecies movies?

SPEAKER_01 2:18:40

Not sub I know species, but not subspecies.

SPEAKER_00 2:18:42

Oh no, no, subspecies. Okay, subspecies is a vampire series from full moon uh pictures, and of course full moon is probably best known for uh creating like the puppet master series, but uh subspecies uh is amazing. It was shot the first three are brilliant, shot in Romania and Ted Ted Nicolau, who um really cool director. He also did um uh terror vision. Uh and uh but these are these films have gothic ambience. You have a main character, Radu, who played by Anders Hove, who's a wonderful, I believe he's Danish actor. Um and Radu is sort of like a ghoulish vampire, like he's not your pretty boy, but he's just complete. Are you looking at it? Are you fully gonna I am how sweet? Oh, and he he's got some great lines, like he's like, you know, tonight will be a bloodbath, and he does that. Um nice, and I, you know, whenever people, and I still haven't seen it, I don't know if I'll ever see it because honestly, it just doesn't appeal to me at all. But I remember seeing like clips of like Eggers, Nosferatu, and a lot of people were acting like, oh my god, it's horny vampires. But I'm like, well, first of all, vampires have always been horny, that's why they're brave.

SPEAKER_01 2:20:11

It's that like that's what vampires are.

SPEAKER_00 2:20:14

It's literally like to quote uh my I adore Matt Berry uh from what we do in the shadows. He's like, I'm into vampirism because I like to I like to I'm for fucking and sucking blood.

SPEAKER_01 2:20:29

You gotta do it with the accent though.

SPEAKER_00 2:20:31

I can't do that accent though, and I respect him too much to fuck it up, so um I'm into vampirism fucking sucking blood. That was excellent. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 2:20:44

Oh my god, New York City.

SPEAKER_00 2:20:47

It's the time. I love him so much. I love him in um Did you the IT crowd when he's in the Oh my god, I can't yeah, it's done just goes through a drawer.

SPEAKER_01 2:21:00

Mmm, a gun.

SPEAKER_00 2:21:04

Who's it? What is it? Father speak, priest. Okay, my first Matt Berry was uh Dark Place, Garth Moringi's Dark Place. And it's just I was like, Liz, you're a woman.

SPEAKER_01 2:21:26

I every year I have to re-watch Dark Place just to be like, oh, fucking good. Remind me of something I'm never gonna be able to is to recreate because this is perfect.

SPEAKER_00 2:21:38

That's so good. Oh my god, this uh was it we talked we saw something the other day about a woman that was a she said she was afraid of Scottish people. And I was like, is it the Scotch mist? Is it the you know, Rick Sanchez is uh you know, my mother went to Glasgow once, just said it was quite lovely.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:06

Now I'm gonna have to rewatch it. Oh my god. Rewatch it all again now. It's uh have you listened to any of his um two audiobooks?

SPEAKER_00 2:22:14

I have not. I have not, but I do I do love what I've heard of Matt Berry's music. I think he's he's actually a really incredibly talented uh songwriter and musician. So I just got the guy. Yeah no, I want to get those books though. Like, holy shit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:29

Especially the audios because he does them. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 2:22:33

That is dangerous knowledge. I'm not I'm not big into audiobooks normally, but I would make an exception.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:39

What was he did a there's the off-menu podcast, which is a food podcast that they usually have comedians on. It's very good, I enjoy it a lot. But they had like Guth on. Like so he was doing full character going for it, and it was like, this is so good. Because anyone else would have broken character and gone for it, but he did the whole thing in character, and it's so good.

SPEAKER_00 2:23:04

I've I've wanted to call myself a dream weaver. I'm a dream weaver, yes, author, visionary, dreamweaver, plus actor. Oh my god, I yeah, yeah, though. It's um yeah, don't it's funny because my parents actually got into what we do in the shadows, and I was like, I was I have been a fan of Matt Berry's for years. For years. This is yeah. Which one we do in the shadows is fucking great too. Have you watched it, the TV?

SPEAKER_01 2:23:38

I have. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:23:40

Yeah, it's great.

SPEAKER_01 2:23:42

I wasn't I didn't like the film, but I liked the show more.

SPEAKER_00 2:23:45

I liked the film, I love the show. I think the show is actually a lot funnier. And that cast, like, oh my god, it's perfect cast.

SPEAKER_01 2:23:54

Okay, Garth McRinkey's Dark Place, I'm definitely gonna have to rewatch that. Like, I've I'm just finishing Six Feet Under for the first time. So once that's done, I'm gonna go back to uh something very silly.

SPEAKER_00 2:24:05

It's so silly. Palette cleanse. It's it's like you can see Skipper, the eye child.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:10

You know, for three It's sort of did you ever watch the first couple of series? Well, there's only three, but the first couple of series in the Mighty Boosh.

SPEAKER_00 2:24:19

Yes, I'm so rusty. I want to revisit it though, because I don't I um I love that. I mean, old Greg was like a thing, a friend of mine would jump out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:30

But that that that was I think that was how I first was aware of Matt Berry was him as um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:24:36

Yeah, as the oh god, what was I could see his character, yeah. No, my favorite Mighty Boosh was the one where um where there's some character named like Jimmy Five Hats, and he gets like there's a band where like Noel Fielding's character is in a band, and it's like the two girls that were in that real life band, um, Robots in Disguise, which really cool band. Like, I I love them. But uh they get uh see, I'm so rusty. I can't remember the character's name. Um the one with the mustache.

SPEAKER_01 2:25:08

Oh, um Howard Moon.

SPEAKER_00 2:25:10

Thank you. For they get Howard, and one of them says he looks like a pedophile. Oh my god, that went that was so great. Yeah, Mighty Bush, I need to revisit that. Yeah, that was a great, great show.

SPEAKER_01 2:25:24

We'll we'll we'll both revisit and then we'll come back.

SPEAKER_00 2:25:26

I love that. Sounds it sounds like a playoff.

SPEAKER_01 2:25:30

So uh you were saying that the special place was a hard question. My favorite question's coming up.

SPEAKER_00 2:25:36

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:25:37

Uh, which is what's your controversial opinion on a famous film?

SPEAKER_00 2:25:40

Oh, okay, so this makes me nervous. But I have to, I can only be me. I can only be my authentic self, and I think everybody should be authentic. So uh I have two. And again, I will, like I said earlier, I'm not a gatekeeper. If any of this is something that moves somebody that's beautiful, great. That's cool. It's just not for me, even though my belief is, of course, science. So uh it's fact. Of course, of course, of course it is. Uh why would it be anything else? But uh exactly I I think Stanley Kubrick's The Shining is overrated.

SPEAKER_01 2:26:18

And go on.

SPEAKER_00 2:26:19

I well, I would fight your case. I will say, I will say this with the caveat. This that is one of the best scores. That Wendy Carlos score is a beast, is an absolute beast. I think the cinematography is exquisite. Um, I'm not saying it is a bad film at all. I would never say that. It's a beautifully made film. Kubrick has made some of my favorite films. Uh The Killing is one of my favorite movies. Actually, that's one I could put in my film's nearest and dearest to me. I love that film. Do you have the criterion?

SPEAKER_01 2:26:50

No, just uh just the DVD of it.

SPEAKER_00 2:26:53

But you got it. You got it. Sterling Hayden, by the way, is the man. I love him.

SPEAKER_01 2:26:58

Um I would say uh Pass of Glory is uh very little.

SPEAKER_00 2:27:02

No, no, Pass of Glory is fucking amazing, though, too. That's one of my favorites. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 2:27:06

That scene was though, it's one of those two.

SPEAKER_00 2:27:09

Anything with Timothy Carey in general, okay, yeah. Yeah, um, would also be on my nearest and dearest in my heart list. But um, so I I my problem with The Shining is that Jack Nicholson's performance, I just it's too hammy for me.

SPEAKER_01 2:27:27

And it's just Jack.

SPEAKER_00 2:27:28

He's it just doesn't no, it doesn't, it doesn't work for me. I love Shelly Duvall, I love Scott McCruthers. Actually, the kid, I'm not a big fan of children in horror movies. That kid's great, that kid's fine. Like, I actually do not have a problem with him. Um, like like it sounds like I'm gonna beat him up if I did, right? Like, we got beef, kid.

SPEAKER_01 2:27:46

Uh look, fucking get good or fuck off, kid.

SPEAKER_00 2:27:49

All right, I think that's how Stanley Kerberick directed, actually.

unknown 2:27:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:27:54

That's definitely what he said to Shelley.

SPEAKER_00 2:27:56

Yeah, get good or fuck off. Yeah. Just I don't know why I've got to tell you twice.

SPEAKER_01 2:28:01

I said get good once, so fucking hell.

SPEAKER_00 2:28:08

Oh my god. Yeah. Um I just so that's why I think it's everything. I think there are there are films that to me are far more perfect than I would call near perfect, where um, actually speaking of kind of like people tied with Bob Clark, uh, I don't know if you ever saw Death Dream.

SPEAKER_01 2:28:26

No.

SPEAKER_00 2:28:26

That is a haunting film. That is like a Cassavetti's horror film. In fact, the the father in it is the same actor that's in, I think, Faces. Um, okay. Death Dream, that's that to me is a near perfect movie. Messiah of Evil, I think, is more effective. Um I think Lips of Oh god, Lips of Blood. I should have mentioned that as the nearest and dearest too, but sorry.

SPEAKER_01 2:28:51

It's when when people say that The Shining is like the scariest film they've ever seen. I'm just like, I don't understand when.

SPEAKER_00 2:28:58

But have you seen other horror films?

SPEAKER_01 2:29:00

But I know a film?

SPEAKER_00 2:29:02

Yeah. Have you seen a movie?

SPEAKER_01 2:29:05

Um, like fucking hell.

SPEAKER_00 2:29:06

But I know, but I know plenty of people who are very well versed in horror cinema that really love it. So maybe it's just not for us. But I just think I'm sorry, Jack Nicholson is just so fucking it's like to me, seeing him in that movie is like Al Pacino and Sen of a Woman. It's like that level of just and I and Jack Nicholson's great in other movies. I'm not a hater. Like, but I love Jack. But it's just I just don't I just don't, I don't, I don't, I just don't like film like this for the listener. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:29:36

I very much enjoy the film. I have the 4K of it, the fancy edition, whatever. I sing its praises for multiple things. I think people need to chill the fuck out with what like things mean in that film. Cause it's like Yes. I like why is there a chair in the background and then it's there the not not the next time? And I'm like, oh, because that was probably an earlier take.

SPEAKER_02 2:30:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:01

It's it's a continuity Yeah. And they're like, no, no, no, Kubrick's too on it. Yeah, he's too on it with the story that you'd let a good take go. Like, that's all it is.

SPEAKER_02 2:30:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:11

Chill the fuck out. Like, I think people need to calm the fuck down.

SPEAKER_02 2:30:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:15

And I prefer, if I was to go and re-watch it, I would prefer to watch Stephen King's 97 TV movie.

SPEAKER_00 2:30:22

You know, I'm glad you mentioned that because I I actually think that one is really underrated. I actually think Steven Weber was really good in it. And he's more, I think, known as a comedic actor in a lot of ways. Uh, but uh but he was great. And I my only problem with the TV movie uh versus the Kubrick one, that kid is the kid in the TV one's fucking awful. Like you want him to die.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:46

Yeah, his rhoticism really fucking annoys me.

SPEAKER_00 2:30:49

You oh my daddy, it's like fuck off, man.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:52

I'm gonna I'm gonna get that Topri lion, yeah, and it's gonna eat the shit out of me.

SPEAKER_00 2:30:56

You're like, go Jack, go Jack, get him, kill the kid, beat the No. There's some films like got like the oh what was that 13 Ghosts remake? Oh yeah. Oh, do you remember the Tony Schlub one?

SPEAKER_01 2:31:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:31:11

Oh my god. The kid in that one eated it, that kid had no survival instincts at all. Like, yeah, that one like that, you know, when the ghost of your dead mother is literally telling you, don't come down this hallway, and you're like, What? Okay, yeah, and it's like, dude, you this is just this is Darwinism, just let it let it go its course at this point.

SPEAKER_01 2:31:35

And like the William Castle version didn't have any of that.

SPEAKER_00 2:31:38

No, no, the castle was great. I love William Castle, but so like why did they have to add it for this one? Yeah, but yeah, so yeah, the shining, and again, it's not me saying it sucks. There are things about I think it's masterful. Absolutely. I just think it's over. I think for the amount of hype it gets, I don't think it's that great. I think there are horror films that are far more perfect. Um, I think Fulci's the Beyond is a better movie as a whole cohesive work. Um, you know, uh David Warbeck, greater the Jack Nicholson, True of the Cedar eight. So uh my other one, I don't know if this I'm assuming this is a controversial take because Criterion has a big box set of his work. I love Criterion, obviously, like a lot of us do.

SPEAKER_01 2:32:24

So you're not so you're not a Wes Anderson fan.

SPEAKER_00 2:32:26

How did you know? I can't fucking stand. Wes Anderson to me is like the like unflavored warm yogurt. I can't. He is so fucking I I can't. I don't it it's like a Wes Anderson tattoo. Do you really oh my god, I'm so sorry. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 2:32:47

I'm like it's don't be.

SPEAKER_00 2:32:49

Um it's not by flavor, it's not by flavor, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 2:32:53

I think um Bottle Rocket, Rushmore, uh Tenen Bombs, and Life Aquatic. I think they were a lot more interesting than what he just does now, which is just twee little churn amount of things.

SPEAKER_00 2:33:10

That's the thing, he's so twee. He's too twee for me. He's too much.

SPEAKER_01 2:33:15

I think his earlier stuff had a bit more edge, whereas his newer stuff is just far too twee, and I'm just like, I don't care.

SPEAKER_00 2:33:22

Yeah, yeah, and um so but yeah, so those are my those are my hot takes. And I and I think they're fine. I think they're fine hot takes. Thank you. Thank you. I I mean, granted, I think I think when you're somebody who's grown up being into like weird films, like you tend to be I think a little more thick skinned because you've grown up your whole life of people kind of trashing your your tastes. So you're just like honestly, yeah. It's nothing it's nothing there.

SPEAKER_01 2:33:51

Like I've it's it's like when you tell someone that you think the Dark Knight's not a very good film and they break and you're like, hold on, watch anything else, and you'll realize

SPEAKER_00 2:34:00

They're breaking a bottle in half.

SPEAKER_01 2:34:02

What'd you honestly? Christopher Nolan can't do any wrong. Apart from those ones you don't like if it's apart from the ones I don't talk about that I don't like. Also, you don't talk about Insomnia.

SPEAKER_02 2:34:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:34:12

Which is a much better film than all the other shit he's done. Oh well, I haven't seen that one.

SPEAKER_00 2:34:18

Right. The best thing about the Dark Knight is is Heath Heath Ledger. Like, I if when if I ever go back to that movie doing a great Tom Waits impression. Dude, you know I love Tom Waits. Fuck yeah. Like that's all he's doing. That's enough. That's plenty. That's plenty. But I'll just like that's literally the only parts I'll watch. I'll just like sometimes I'll be like, I just need to see five minutes of Heath Ledger just you know, like doing that, and then I'm good.

SPEAKER_01 2:34:48

I don't I don't think there's anything of that film that I need to see again. That's fair, and I've seen it a lot. Like considering films I don't like are the films I rewatch the most, I have seen The Dark Knight four or five times, and every time I'm just like, this is a piece of shit. I don't know why everyone loves it. It doesn't make sense to me.

SPEAKER_00 2:35:13

Oh my god. That's how I felt about I remember like when American Beauty came out and everybody was like, that's such a great movie, and I'm like, is it? Is it great? It felt like a 15-year-old wrote it.

SPEAKER_01 2:35:25

The meaning, what meaning? Like, really, scratch a little bit underneath what meaning.

SPEAKER_00 2:35:32

They're like, get it, get and it's like, okay, he's perving on a teenager, and and his it's it's because he's so repressed, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:35:44

Dig into that, please. I need something more.

SPEAKER_00 2:35:46

Well, yeah, that's the thing. And like, see the tea the the teen the tea, like the one that's edgy. I'm like, first of all, any goth girl that is like the edgy alt girl is not the cheerleader. So there was that. It was just so pretend it was like so pretentious and first draft to me. It felt like a first draft, you know?

SPEAKER_02 2:36:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:36:07

And it it's uh yeah, I just did not like it. That I really didn't like. Actually, I I almost want to take back what I said about the shining, because now that I'm thinking about American beauty, the shining's fucking awesome.

SPEAKER_01 2:36:20

Fair. Yeah. No, I uh it's there are the there are those films which I think a lot of people are it's a safe bet to say they enjoy it because you know no one's gonna say sh uh fucking sure Shank Red Everton's a bad film, but it's not the best film. And like Citizen Kane, I love Citizen Kane, I think it's great fun. There are hundreds of films that are better than it, yeah, but if someone says, Oh, I think it's excellent, it's like cool. Like you don't have to justify, but it's a safe bet. You know, I think I I like it when someone puts their stock in a film that no one else has heard of.

SPEAKER_00 2:37:05

Exactly. No, that's always what get gets my interest. Like when somebody mentions something, even if it's a film I'm not the biggest fan of, if it's something that's a little bit of a deeper cut, and they're like, that one really moved me. I'm I'm just like, even I mean, shit, even if it's something I hate, I'm like the fact that you like like you liking, you know, you really loving Rushmore. I think that's like okay, I would love to hear you talking about that. I mean, it's not a film for me, but I respect you and you have great taste, and you know you're shit. So, you know, like that's the that's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 2:37:36

Sure. I mean the the tattoo I got is the one that Bill Murray has in Life Aquatic on his arm.

SPEAKER_00 2:37:47

Oh, that's so cool. Well see, that's that's fair.

SPEAKER_01 2:37:50

It's at least it's not like Jacqueline crossed out and then deep search and an anchor. That's what I've got.

SPEAKER_00 2:37:56

Yeah, it's funny. So at least it's not like a tramp stamp of Wes Anderson's name on your lower back.

SPEAKER_01 2:38:06

Well, actually, no.

SPEAKER_00 2:38:08

No.

SPEAKER_01 2:38:09

I would totally get a tramp stamp.

SPEAKER_00 2:38:11

Of Wes Anderson.

SPEAKER_01 2:38:12

Not of Wes Anderson, but like, I don't know, something like some butterflies, maybe. That'd be funny. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:38:18

Or what if it was like a um a filigree design built of fish sticks? The fish sticks tramped theme. You could say it's your de it's your tribute to Gwyneth Paltrow.

SPEAKER_01 2:38:30

I'm getting it. I'm getting it. All no, three or four of my tattoos are film-related. One's a book, and one is just nonsense. What's the bookland? Uh have you read Spares by Michael Marshall Smith?

SPEAKER_00 2:38:45

No, but it sounds like I need to if you got a tattoo of it.

SPEAKER_01 2:38:48

It's good. Uh where is he? Is he here? He might not be here. Um Michael Marshall Smith did Only Forward and One of Us. He also did the Straw Men like trilogy. They're really like his sci-fi stuff is really good. And when me and three other lads were cinema projectionists, uh, we all sort of went our separate ways after two years, and we decided to all get the uh there's a logo on spares, which is a hand missing its fourth finger or third finger. Um so we've all got it, and I've got it there. Oh, that's awesome! Um Tom got it in his wrist. And like three of the four, so me and two others, we still like we got this tattoo Oh my god. So maybe I got this tattoo like like 17 years ago, and we like three of us still go for uh a meal every month. Like we do a little curry club and we still hang out. So it's really nice that we're still like mainly others, but we're mainly close. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:39:54

Oh, that's a pute. Yeah, that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 2:39:56

You're making me wish I don't have any tattoos.

SPEAKER_00 2:39:57

I don't. I was about to say, you're making me wish I had a tattoo.

SPEAKER_01 2:40:00

Nerd.

SPEAKER_00 2:40:01

I know. I know. I um no, I've always wanted to get one. I'm just very picky. Yeah, it's like I I'd I'd have to I overthink things, so yeah, fair.

SPEAKER_01 2:40:13

Uh I don't when it comes to tattoos. It's ridiculous. I've got uh that's it. What's the other one?

SPEAKER_00 2:40:20

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 2:40:21

Oh, so I have a heart on the inside of my thigh, which um I asked the tattoo artist to pass me a Sharpie, and I just did a just drew a heart on my leg. And I went, just that.

SPEAKER_00 2:40:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:40:32

And that was it. He just repeated it, and he went, like, what if you got it wrong? I was like, then I'd have a shit heart on my thigh. That's it. Like, and I got a a T-Rex skull on my calf. That's badass. Yes, because I'm I'm I'm fucking hard as nails. Um I got it while recording a podcast. So are you serious? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So uh Joe, uh he's a big horror guy. I mentioned him earlier. Yeah. He's a tattoo artist. So I recorded our interview while he was tattooing me, and I videoed it, so I'm releasing that as a video episode at some point soon.

SPEAKER_00 2:41:09

Oh my god. Um I respected that so much.

SPEAKER_01 2:41:13

Just just sat there and got it done while asking questions.

SPEAKER_00 2:41:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:41:17

And I didn't make a single peep about it.

SPEAKER_00 2:41:20

You know why? Because you're hard as nails.

SPEAKER_01 2:41:22

Just because I'm hard as fucking nails.

SPEAKER_00 2:41:24

That's right. Fucking man.

SPEAKER_01 2:41:29

Big tough guy.

SPEAKER_00 2:41:31

I think I'm impressed that he was able to be interviewed while giving a you know, because I was it sounds like he's very great at what he does. Oh, like yeah. That is a great dinosaur skull. Like, holy shit. So yeah. Like if I was trying to talk and do that at the same time, it would look like it would look it would look so bad.

SPEAKER_01 2:41:54

And it wouldn't be finished.

SPEAKER_02 2:41:55

I'd be like, um, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 2:41:59

Yeah. You'd be like, Heather, why does this say Wes Anderson sucks?

SPEAKER_01 2:42:04

Why did you and then why did it say eggs, lemon curd, bread? It's like, oh, it's a shopping list. I had to write that down, otherwise I forget. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_00 2:42:14

Lemon curd sounds delicious.

SPEAKER_01 2:42:16

Have you no have you never had lemon curd?

SPEAKER_00 2:42:18

No, I have. Oh wait, that's why it sounds good. I love I'm a fan of lemony sweets.

SPEAKER_01 2:42:23

I like so I I recently put a uh lemon sherbet air freshener in my truck. Oh cannot wait.

SPEAKER_00 2:42:33

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 2:42:33

Cannot wait to go for a drive.

SPEAKER_00 2:42:35

A lemon sherbet sounds amazing. I love a fr like a lemon bar.

SPEAKER_01 2:42:40

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:42:41

Those are delicious.

SPEAKER_01 2:42:42

Lemon drizzle cake.

SPEAKER_00 2:42:44

That I have not had that, but I would eat that. I would eat the shit out of that.

SPEAKER_01 2:42:48

You know the sort of like it's the wet icing kind of where it looks a bit like uh jizz, but it's um it's just like icing sugar and water. It's just that. Yes with uh yeah, you you know the kind. I know, no, I immediately uh and then it's got lemon juice in that, and then you just drizzle that over a cake.

SPEAKER_00 2:43:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:43:12

And then that sounds that's that.

SPEAKER_00 2:43:16

You just you're mentioning the jizz. My brain went back to I actually have a story, not about a Jizz cake, but uh being stuck at a karaoke bar years ago, years ago, as yeah back. I was not drunk enough, that was for sure though, because I have a very clear memory of this. Uh was this girl who had dated there's a a local, I mean he may be retired now. This local lawyer that my my husband and I know who is a total perv, but he's honest about it. I respect him, like you know, uh, but he was into the OTO, like, which is uh tied with um like uh uh like sort of Alistair Crowley. Um and um he uh so and she's like but she's like drunk, she's super drunk, and she's like, Oh my god, he took me to this, and I'm like, it was OTO, and she's like, Yeah, and we had to eat these Jiz cookies, and because uh part of the it looks like part of sex magic where they make a wafer, like a sacramental wafer, but people have to ejaculate into it, um, and then cook it, which I think that flavor profile would be super nasty personally, and knowing knowing some of the locals around here, yeah, that's a no. That is a no. I don't want that's a noop, nope, nope, nope, nope. Uh, but her just being like a jazz cookie, and like while some pushy while some sorority girls on stage like singing, you know, my humps or whatever. It was an interesting night. It was an interesting night for sure.

SPEAKER_02 2:44:53

Yeah, so yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:44:56

So um, if somebody invites you to an OTO ritual and they offer you a a wafer, you just just know that it's probably got uh some baked semen in it.

SPEAKER_01 2:45:09

I don't usually gross out that easily, and that is it's nasty, especially because I don't think that would bake well.

SPEAKER_00 2:45:16

Like I don't even think that would I I I think that's gross on like multiple levels, like A, like you know, strangers bodily fluids, um a little nasty, not kink shaman, I'm just saying for me personally, uh but baking is this yeah, I feel like if those fluids interact with you during a moment Yeah that's not that's all that's all bought and paid for, you know.

SPEAKER_01 2:45:45

But but if there was a moment where there was jizz and then that was held for baking purposes only. Don't touch the jizz in the fridge. That's I'm making some jizz wafers later. So gross. You can have some of the speculose instead. Go for those. The spec yes. Like I I just don't like that idea that there's just this little Oh You know how you like you get all your cooking bits ready. So you got the cinnamon, I've got my sugar, I've got the flour. What else am I missing? A carafe of cum. That's what I'm missing. I need to go get my carafe of cum. Well, it And it's like no.

SPEAKER_00 2:46:25

And to be honest, I kind of think a lot of people that are into not everybody, but I think a lot of the people, particularly this guy that we know, was more into that less for any sort of philosophical reasons or any spiritual reasons that um because like I've I've read a bit about um in some of Alistair Crowley's books, and like um he's a fascinating guy, and he had some really cool, cool, I mean, you know, you have to go past all the image shit, and like there's some good stuff there. But one of the things is like he encouraged people to be seekers and not to stick to one thing, yeah. So it's weird to me that there's all these people like, no, you have to do it this way. This is what he said, and I'm like, I don't think that's really what he meant, but um, but I also think you guys are just looking for an excuse to like eat Jiz cookies, but you want to make it mystical and you know it's the body, it's the yeah, and it's like just if you just want to eat a a calm cookie, just eat it. Fuck. Like, don't don't be pretentious about it. Go do it, just do it.

SPEAKER_01 2:47:22

Was was Crowley also the Order of the Nine Angles?

SPEAKER_00 2:47:27

Probably. I don't that I don't know, but it wouldn't he was the thing is like he dabbled and was part of so many different sort of like hermetic stuff and secret societies, like he really like explored all kinds of different spiritual paths in his youth to kind of get the most amount of knowledge and experience, um, which I think is cool. Like, I um you know, I I a lot of he's kind of misunderstood, and some of that's his fault because he embraced the whole great beast image and all of that unsavory publicity. And I mean he wasn't a saint, obviously, but I don't know who is. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 2:48:04

That's the thing. Like you're gonna tell me that you can't dig up some fucking shite on everyone.

SPEAKER_02 2:48:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:48:10

And I I always love as well when they kick off about Satanism and all that kind of stuff, and it's like it's about loving yourself and like being good with you, you know? And everyone's like, yeah, it's so selfish. And it's like, no Yeah, but not not in a bad way. Like, how do you think about if you're good with you, then you're gonna be kinder to others because of it.

SPEAKER_00 2:48:33

Exactly. Like exactly. I mean, because that's the thing, like you should what if you don't take care of yourself, you know? Okay. Mother Roo. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:48:49

Can I get an amen?

SPEAKER_00 2:48:51

Yeah. I said amen, I'd burst into flames.

SPEAKER_01 2:48:58

It's okay if you're quoting Rue.

SPEAKER_00 2:49:00

Yeah. If it's out of the quotes, though, that's when the yeah, the thunder, the screaming in Latin backwards, it's a whole mess.

SPEAKER_01 2:49:09

You accidentally uh describe someone as amen, and you're like, uh, he was uh a men. Fuck man, no, fuck you've said amen.

SPEAKER_00 2:49:17

I'm on fire. Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. But you know what? No, no jizz cookies, though.

SPEAKER_01 2:49:24

No jizz cookies. Um, what have you been watching recently?

SPEAKER_00 2:49:31

Uh well actually uh I've Tangirl, I'm guessing. That was a little while back, actually.

SPEAKER_01 2:49:37

It's only getting it's only getting released now. It's still release.

SPEAKER_00 2:49:41

Yeah, it's it's um it's a beautiful release too. Like they really they really kind of pulled out and typical vinegar syndrome fashion really pulled out a lot of the the bells and whistles and it's uh Did they send you a copy? Yes, yes. I actually have it, it's it's in the dark shadows over there in the nestle of my room. But um, but no, actually, uh I watched some of Jim Charman's stuff in prepping for the projection booth, and that was so cool because in addition to his first film, uh Shirley Thompson versus the Aliens, which that's the main thing we got into, uh, there was a film he made uh two years after Rocky called Summer of Secrets, and that film floored me. I it's not very well known, but it's really should be. And it's got uh uh Rufus Collins, who has a small part in Rocky as one of the Transylvanians, and uh Nel Campbell's in it, but looking very like blonde and like a regular kind of quote unquote sort of more normal looking beautiful woman. Uh and she's great, and there's a um fantastic, I want to say it was New Zealand, and I can't remember the name, but the of the actor that plays like this older doctor, but his performance really floored me. He has like a physicality kind of like William Finley, uh, who I love. I love William Finley. He was probably best known as Winslow Winslow Leach and Phantom of the Paradise. He's the titular Phantom of the Paradise. But Summer of Secrets is it's a really beautifully made film, and there's a lot of it's one of those things. If you look it up online, it'll just say um young couple uh encounters a mad scientist and his assistant, and he's trying to resurrect his dead wife, and things go awry. But that is, I mean, it's technically accurate, but it's really far from the truth. Yeah, I mean, it's a really beautiful and very sad film. It's an incredibly melancholy, and but also if it really gorgeous, like Jim Sherman is such a great um director with fluidity with his camera work and his camera movements and composition. Um and it's just I it's one where I'm like, I immediately need to re-watch this just to kind of soak it up more and more. So that's that's really that's the one that's kind of been on my brain uh this week is Summer of Secrets.

SPEAKER_01 2:52:03

Well, that's some good stuff. Um Do you have anything that you're sort of I know that the Tank Girl uh release is sometime this month. So do you have anything you want to plug?

SPEAKER_00 2:52:15

Um sure. I'll uh I will plug my uh I guess my link tree, because that's kind of has everything on it. Um link tree.com forward slash mondoheather. Uh that has my website. I recently did an article that's a tribute to Udo Kier because we lost him uh last last month. And I love Udo Kier. And that actually kind of also I has uh some key moments for me as a young film lover and you know as an adult film lover now. Uh so yes, I have a Patreon. I recently did a piece on the early 70s uh adult uh gay film Hollywood Cowboy, which was a lot of fun, and it's kind of got some rough hewn charm about it and random uh random fisting.

SPEAKER_01 2:53:05

Random fisting, random, just not even prepared for it.

SPEAKER_00 2:53:08

Yeah, yeah, but it just appears like it's there's some weird editing, which I go into in the article, editing things, and for like a few seconds, there's like all of a sudden there's um somebody uh saying hi to somebody. Elbow deep. They're almost like it was like goddamn, uh response.

SPEAKER_01 2:53:28

Where's it go?

SPEAKER_00 2:53:29

Yeah, I mean where's it be like up the butt?

SPEAKER_01 2:53:32

That's where it goes. It goes up the butt.

SPEAKER_00 2:53:34

That's it goes it goes through a hole where you could say hello to somebody. I guess. I don't know. I'm not an expert on these things, but uh but yeah, Hollywood Cowboys cute film. I uh working on, I'm currently working on a video essay for my YouTube. Um the most recent one I did is I did a little one about uh Tormeo and Juliet because uh not only just because I'm on the vinegar syndrome release, but because I just I think it's a great film. I think it's got an absolute dynamite cast, I think it's well written, and I just think it's a really charming movie.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:06

So lovely stuff. Well, I'll make sure I put all your uh link tree and everything in the description notes so everyone can go check you out. And uh yeah. Well, thank you very much for uh coming on and speaking to me. It's been a wonderful three and a half hours. If I've cut this down any shorter than that, you've missed out on gold.

SPEAKER_00 2:54:28

Yes, yes. So you'll just have to be left wondering, what did I miss? You'll never know. We're like that eight-hour cut of greed by Eric von Sturheim.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:36

So maybe we could that's what I do a Patreon of. Uh I could do all the uncut episodes, but then I don't like the idea that those uncut episodes would be out there in the ether somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 2:54:46

Yeah, maybe it's just nobody's business.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:49

Someone's fucking business. You're lucky I post anything.

SPEAKER_00 2:54:51

Yeah, it's right. You ingrates.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:55

Fucking losers listening to me. Desperate for my attention.

SPEAKER_00 2:55:02

I hope I haven't made this a total nightmare to edit for you, though. Oh no. Okay, cool. I was making sure. Okay. Oh, cool. Cool. You're welcome. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 2:55:16

Thank you. Thank you for gracing me. Um, so yeah, so thank you very much. And uh so hopefully see you soon. Absolutely, absolutely, thank you.