Joel Froome ACS NZCS - Cinematographer

Joining me this week, Joel Froome

Joel is a Cinematographer specializing in narrative and commercial work originally from Sydney, Australia.

He graduated from the prestigious Australia Film, Television & Radio School where he learnt under instructors including Andrew Lesnie ACS ASC, John Seale ACS ASC, Jan Kenny ACS, Kim Batterham ACS and Anthony Dodd Mantle DFF ASC BSC, to name a few.

A versatile collaborator skilled in bringing a director’s vision to life, Joel’s work has received numerous distinctions and awards from the Australian Cinematographers Society and from various International film festivals.

In 2018, Joel was awarded the highest honor in Australian cinematography by being accredited by the Australian Cinematographers Society, giving him the privilege of using the letters ACS after his name. This was followed by accreditation from the New Zealand Cinematographers Society in 2024 and paying homage to his family’s history in New Zealand.

His love of contrast, texture and light, curious nature, and commitment to craft have placed him behind the camera on feature films, short films, commercials and documentaries around the world.

Joel's new film The Yeti is out now

Joel's Instagram:

My letterboxd: 

My film Reel Terror: 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Your Life and Film. I'm your host, Ted Bennett. Joining me this week, Joel Froom. Joel is a cinematographer, and his most recent film, The Yeti, should be out now, actually, I think. Joel is a wonderful bloke. Got on very well with him. I liked him a lot. Since recording this episode, I've had to re-watch a lot of films, and uh, you know, if you follow my letterbox that might be giving away some uh some of his answers. I hope you enjoy it. It was a lot of fun to record. So your Sydney originally.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Yes, from the northern beaches of Sydney and um a town called Manley. Manly Beach, which is a great, great place to grow up, and uh yeah, I loved it. I miss it a lot.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

I've only ever been to uh well I went I've I've been to Sydney and Melbourne, but uh you know, touristy as fuck stuff. Like, yeah, I don't know if you ever got the ferry.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Yeah, yeah. No, I mean good good times always. I mean, yeah, they're lovely. A lot of fun. No, Manley, I mean Manley's somewhat touristy. A lot of lot of palms there. Um yeah, very very popular surf town to kind of just get the boat across the ferry across the harbour to um to go hang out in Manley, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Oh wait, uh I I took the boat over to the zoo.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Okay, yeah. This is a bit further, keep going around a bit further. Oh okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But just across the harbour there.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Oh nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Yeah, I miss it. Miss it at times like these when it's freezing outside where I am, you know. It's like oh man. Just winter in Australia, mate. That's right, so yeah, I know. I know, but no, I mean no one loves to complain, like Australians in winter, uh how cold it is, and it's like like I've been over here so long now that it's just like you just shut up, you know. Like I just don't, don't you know? I can't I can't listen to you.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

I feel like I would take slightly colder winters and not have the spiders and snakes.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

That's true.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Like you don't want those big old huntsmen just fucking trying to get you mean mugging you.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

It's funny, I saw a meme the other day, and it was like one of the most accurate things I've seen. It's like every Australian's got a huntsman story. I'm like, yeah, we all have like the one story, like we've got many of them, but we've all got like the one that was like this one was terrifying, you know.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Yeah, that did. My my buddy Rob uh told me a story about how like a huntsman he was staying over at his buddy's house, and like his sister was uh like his his buddy's sister was kind of cute in the morning. She was like, Are you all out of spiders? And he was like, I'm okay. And then it was this huntsman which had like three legs and was just scarred from fighting with the dog, and he was like, Oh fuck, fuck, fuck. And he went to like try and do something, and just by walking past it, it like mean mugged him, and he was like, Oh my god, no, that's so good.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Yeah, that's great, yeah, yeah. But no, it's um it's it was a great place to to grow up and and whatnot, and yeah, I do miss it. Do you ever take your kids over? Yeah, we used to go like every other Christmas. Oh, nice. Also, yeah, so this this past few is the first, like we didn't go back this past Christmas, and it's like we're really feeling it because it's the first time since pre-COVID that we didn't get away to anywhere warm. So it's like we're at the point of the winter now where it's like, oh, this was a terrible idea.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Like my kids, my kids are off school next week. Um, and it's just so hard to entertain them during winter where it's like you know, in Australia you can go outside all time of the year, you know. Do whatever you like. Um so we we go back there. Um my oldest daughter, she's at like ten and a half now, she's been back probably at least six or so times. Oh, nice. And and and um my youngest daughter, who's seven, she has probably been back four at least as well. So we go back quite a bit.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

So that's decent.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

As much as as much as possible.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

And where are you currently shooting the Yeti?

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Or has that is that in the can? The Yeti's in the can, yeah. It's that's coming out in April, um, which is exciting. Uh we shot that actually in Buffalo, which is which is where I live, and it's amazing because it's the first time I've shot a film, like a big film in Buffalo. So like m I I think I've done like 15 features now or something like that, but it's like the first time the first time home every night. Yeah, which was amazing, but it was also like so different because normally it's like you'd come around on the like the feature I did before this I did in the summer in Baltimore, that's what the Baltimore DC area, and it's like it was really exhausting. Shoot, and like the weekends roll around, you're like in your hotel room, you're like, oh fuck, you know, I'm gonna completely do nothing, and it's like I'm just gonna lie in bed, watch Netflix and eat takeaway until I have to go to shoot again on Monday. But this time it's like Saturday morning rolls around, I get jumped on in bed, like, let's go get breakfast. I'm like, oh man, oh no, we can't do life. I can't do that now. It's just like it was so it was such a different experience because I was just like, I I was so not used to have to do life as well as you know be a functioning human outside of for film set, you know.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

So see, I've only had all the shorts I've directed have all been in sort of like the local area or have at least been close to where my partner is. So whenever I've finished shooting, I have to then just sort of come home, give myself like 45 minutes or an hour, quickly check the footage, and then be like, okay, we can do normal stuff. So like I don't know like what I'm gonna do if I ever go and do like oh I've got to go do a shoot for a few weeks somewhere else, and then just sort of be like, oh I can just sit with my thoughts for the next three weeks.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

I know it's just it's so different. I mean, some of the films I've done, like I've done two features in Nepal, which is wild experiences and like amazing experience. I I mean had some ups and downs of carbon oxide poisoning and all sorts of other adventures, but um the time zone's awful to call home, so it's like it was really hard to speak to the kids, and really hard. So that was really challenging, but it's just like but when you are away like that, you are just so immersed in the project, and it's it can be great for those aspects, but it can be hard on on family and and stuff like that. So you do have to find the balance for sure.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Yeah, um, but I mean that's if you wanted stability and you wanted to be home every night, you would have just taken a very normal job and it would have destroyed you mentally.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

I mean, it I I'd said it wouldn't destroy me mentally, but I don't think it would because I would get fired so quickly. Like I wouldn't lie, like my my wife has a relatively normal job, like she works in um brand um marketing for Fisher Price for Fisher Price, which is a big toy company, and um and they're great, and they've got a massive slide that goes down the build, like you know, it's like it's a fun company to work for, but you know, it's still the same corporate stuff of she comes home, tells me stories, or she didn't get any work done today because she's in meetings the whole day and it's just not efficient. And but I like a boss did something or someone did something, and I'm I'm just like, why didn't you tell them to go fuck themselves? It's like, well, like Yeah, she's like, Well, like, I can't because it's my job and my boss. I'm like, you can just tell them to go fuck themselves. If they're being account, yeah, tell them they're being account. Oh, exactly. I which I did, like, uh before before I my last like real job before I started as a cinematographer was um I I worked at Panavision for years on and off. Like I think I was there for like six years on and off. Like, used to go backpack and then beg for my job back a year later when I came home. And like I did I I did say that to my boss once in front of clients, and he just told me to fuck off and get back to work, you know. It's like you know that's how I anything less than like, oh yeah, I would get fired way too big. Because I would be my ADHD and my the boredom and just pure repetitive nature. But yeah, I like I don't know. I would I would get fired before I think I would try to quit.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Uh yes, like that's that's my problem because uh my partner Kirsty, she works uh copy for like uh a government website. So she is in meetings most of her day, and I'm like, Oh okay. And she's like, when do you think I get to do my work? And I was like, I don't I don't know. And she was like, Well, I'm gonna do it on the couch tonight while you're watching a film. And I was like, No, you're not, because it's that's not when you're at work. She's like, Yeah, but otherwise. And I'm like, I'd say the same thing. I'm like, why don't you just tell them to go jump in the fucking lake? Like, yeah. And she's like, Well, I can't tell them that. And I was like, We can. It's you who says you can't. And they're like, No, no, no, Ted, you I you can't say that to people. I'm like, Nah, sounds like these people are never been told to go fuck themselves.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

No, exactly. I've had the same conversation with my wife so many times. It's just like you've got to, yeah, it's just like it doesn't make sense to have meetings all day that you don't get any actual work done. Like you need someone to come in and be like, This is dumb. You know, it's like it's like it's like even like you go to a pharmacy to pick up medicine and they're like they close from one to two for lunch. I'm like, people need medicine. Like, I'm pretty sure like your work schedule should just like every day from like whatever hour for like two hours, like no one can schedule a meeting in these two hours because I'm sure we've got shit to do.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Everyone's got shit to do.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

I don't know, I don't know, but no, that's why yeah, I I love I love being in the creative field because it's like you you can bounce around and be be weird and wild with with similar people, and it's until much more built to a finance money man, and then you're like, oh god. Oh, yeah, I'm doing I think they've learned now to try and keep me out of those meetings a lot of the times. Um yeah, luckily that's sort of I I don't get involved in too many of those things, but like lately it's it's been a little bit more common, but that's good stuff.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

So uh with the Yeti, how did that come to you? Did that was that a do you know the guys?

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Do you know anyone, or is that just uh No, it was it was a pretty random thing. Like coming to Buffalo, it was a very ambitious project because it was set, it's it's a it's set in the 1940s Alaskan wilderness, and we were shooting the whole thing on a soundstage, and it's like the budget's like a million, around a million, I think maybe a little bit over. Um but like which is seems like it could be a good amount, but it's like we could only like Frank, the production center is brilliant. Like he could only build like 18 realistic looking trees, you know. Yeah. And the rest are just sort of like other ones. So and we could didn't have the ability because we couldn't, we didn't have that much fake snow and this kind of stuff. So um it was a very ambitious project. So like when I I first heard about it, it was through actually I believe the um the rental house in Buffalo, they had asked um when they production were coming to town, they had asked um about local cinematographers they wanted to hire locally and and yeah, and it was and then I spoke to a a line producer and kind of got in got in touch with them and had a a a really good interview with the it was two directors, Jean Gene and Will, who who were great and both very different in terms of their experience and their dynamics, so it was uh it was uh um yeah, really fun, fun challenge to kind of figure out and kind of come up with the look of it and everything. So um yeah, interviewed for a bit, but then we the film pushed and it was gonna be like later 24, I think. And then then it got pushed till January, like starting at January 25. So we um so part of the pre-production I was back in Australia for Christmas for, which is you know, and then like the day I got home we were drive straight down to the studio and and start getting um into pre on that. So but it was a it was a technical challenge, you know, because it was such a um yeah, because the studio's not massive. We only had uh 18 or 20 trees, whatever magic Frank was able to build. So it's like we didn't we didn't want to shoot off the studio, we didn't want you all all this kind of stuff, and the the directors really wanted anamorphic, and but they were also large, so but then we're trying to find anamorphic large format lenses that because we it's like like I I personally don't like love everything completely shallow depth of field, like so much as looks these days. Um but in this like we knew we needed it because it's like we just didn't we didn't want the depth because we did you know it was just hide the crime, you gotta hide it in that depth. Yeah, exactly. But no, it was it was a really really fun one. But um no, it was kinda came about randomly and it was really fun to work with crew at home. Like some of some of my crew regular focus pullers have travelled with me on films all over the world, so don't get to work with some some crew that I work with before like at home was was a real blast, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

Ah, nice. I was um when I when you because you sent me the trailer, well you sent me the article and I I looked at the trailer on it. I was looking and I've always wanted to adapt the uh well, there's the woman on a pol Woman on in a polar night, which was then turned into a horror book by Michelle Paver called Dark Matter, and it's about someone that overwinters on a research station in the Antarctic and they're on their own and they lose their mind essentially. And I was like, Oh, I'd always love to do it, I'd love to do it. And then I saw like how you guys had done the Yeti and I was like, there it is. That's what I want, that's what I want. That's the the colour, that's the fucking feel, that's everything I want. And I was like, Well, alright, I'll get it instead, that'll do.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Oh, that's funny. Yeah, I mean how it it was like you know, I think that's one of the things that like when I um sort of had my first chat and interviewed for the film, like my kind of pitch for it was um like I I sort of saw like the thing obviously comes to mind, obviously with the con the content, but it it's it's like it's like the thing with no money, but like but then there's an element of Robert Richardson, who's a brilliant cinematographer for Tarantino and everything, who's amazing and his he's harsh pools of light in the interiors. It's like if Robert Richardson shot the thing with no money and half the talent, or I mean I'm not probably even way less than half the you know, uh a quarter of his talent, you know. So it's kind of how I pitched. I wanted this Robert Richardson vibe mixed with the thing, mixed with so it's kind of taking some elements for all that stuff. So it was a fun, fun challenge. So for some of our interiors, we did a bit more of the dramatic pools of light and nice and what whatnot, and then mixed with um yeah, some of the atmosphere of of the thing. And yeah, it was a really it was a really cool visual challenge. I'm I love how it turned out and I can't wait for it to get out there.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing it.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

I'll uh you know keep me updated. Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

And um when did you shoot the twin? Because it must have been a while ago now, 2023? Yeah, I think it must have been 2023. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

And was that um because I met Logan at um at Austin and saw the film there, and I was like, oh, this looks No, yeah, it's an interesting cause because it's like people are like a horror movie, yeah, but it's like it it I mean I always sort of it felt more like a family drama.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

You know, and it was played with horror elements, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

Yeah, it was played as a family drama as well, and you shot it in a very sort of I always find it that it's the spooky in the everyday is always scarier, like the thing you think you see out the corner of your eye is always far scarier than whatever, or you know, all that kind of stuff. And it it definitely the composition and the tone of the all the shots really sort of lent into that. So like I was saying, it was yeah, no.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

I mean it was uh I I can't believe it's that long ago. It was I think that would have been it because I don't even remember when we were at Austin Film Festival, but yeah, was uh were you there? Yeah, I was there for uh the premiere, yeah. I can't believe we didn't meet.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

Oh then yeah, we should have been there.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is fun, like it was a fun time at Austin Film Festival, but I without going too much into it, I guess it was just like it felt like we were very much like, you guys go out here, and then we're just gonna have all the other stuff downtown. And for the rot, like I think it maybe maybe they should either just be a writers' festival or just make it much smaller. Uh yes, you know, because like their um like their panels and stuff were great, but it's sort of like if you weren't a writer and you pushed in a cinem regular cinema on the outskirts of town, it was kind of like this is a bit weird.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

I was pleased because my hotel was like a holiday in with about five, ten minutes walk from that cinema. So for the first like four of the eight days, whatever, I was having to commute, get a taxi into the city every day and every like coming back every night. And then for the last four hours I was just to walk up the road, and I was like, this is so much easier for smoke a regret on the way and be like, yeah, done. Let's go.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

I'm just yeah, I'm just gonna chill. But no, it was I mean, it we had fun and it was great, you know. The film played pretty well there, but it was uh yeah, I think it was aimed at like going as a cinematographer to that festival is going like this isn't I don't need to be here.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

No, yeah, I I completely agree with you. I think it's I felt like it was a writer's festival through and through. And I I've I've had this with like a load of different festivals that they're either like audience focused or writer focused or everyone at the same level. And I'm like, that's all good, but what we need is like if if this is uh everyone's at the same level, we need some higher ups to then go, right, I like what you guys did, let's go have a conversation. Because if we're all at the same level, then we're all going to be at the same like sticking point of we've got no money. And when it's a writer's one, writers can collaborate together, but if you're a cinematographer or a director as I was going there, it was a bit like, yeah, I stories aren't a problem, you know?

SPEAKER_00 17:08

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I've I've read some great scripts that it's like you know, if I won the lottery, I'd get I'd some some great movies, you know.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

But uh that's not what festivals do.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

But hey, you know it is what it is.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

It's a good place to premiere and oh it's a great like laurel to have on the poster, you know. Yeah, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

So that's good.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

And what are you currently working on?

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Uh if you can say anything. Yeah, well, just I mean, it we just it's been a lot of posts the last few months, like finishing off the Yeti. And uh I did a film, the one that I did outside of uh DC Baltimore area, is a film called The Upside of Unrequited, um, which is kind of like a it's I mean it's not a sequel, but it's in the same universe as Love Simon, which was a um pretty uh popular coming of age story that Fox did uh years ago. And yeah, that was that was directed by uh the Shakespeare sisters were two wonderful sisters from Oh, yeah. They were at they were at um Austin as well, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They they're great. So like I I I got on that one really randomly and basically had to decide to do it and then do the movie with barely any pre-production because it was like ready to go the following week. So that was a Baptist by Fire. It was just like the hottest summer ever down there as well. So it was a really really challenging shoot. Um so but yeah, they've they've been doing poke because they were they were busy on the film that was premiering it that were that was playing at Austin as well, their time travel is dangerous. But then uh they've been doing since then they've been doing all the posts on upside of unrequited, and um so yeah, we we've done we've done colour on that and yeah, get getting that out into the world as well. So it's it's really been pretty post-heavy, and and then they did a a pilot of a TV show that hopefully we're gonna shoot the rest of the series this year, which would be fun. The first sort of foray into the um TV world. How'd that go? It was great, yeah. I mean it was with a it was a regular director I'd worked with before on a on a uh this amazing true story of a medical malpractice in a um on a military base. Um yes, it's this amazing true story and a lot of fun. I think there's a lot of um potential to to get out there. But the whole kind of independent TV show model is something that I haven't really worked on before, but I think there's a lot of potential and there's some great actors involved, so hopefully, hopefully we we get on that one soon and and yeah, besides that, there's been a bit of documentary stuff. Yeah, I I like to do documentary whenever possible.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Um yeah, I think I I I love I love doing doc. It can be a great change of pace from the craziness of the narrative world. And I think I'd been doing like b uh a couple of features back to back, and then a couple of years ago I shot a um documentary series for CNN that was quite successful called The United States of Scandal with Jake Tapper. And but it was just like I'd been so busy on these narrative features that when you get there and you you know they're like, Oh, we've got three hours to set up, you're like sweet, for an inter you know, for like an interview and like piece of camera kind of thing, you're like, man, and then like and then you get to sit down, you're it's a very fast or they're all very fascinating interviews, and you just get to sit and watch and listen to the interview. And I've we a lot of times we had the two or three cameras, so it's a lot to kind of monitor, but it was still just like it's a really nice change of pace from the the chaos of like a horror movie late nights or any of that kind of stuff, you know. So but I also and I and I also think like documentary, it's like because years ago, sorry without going on too much of a tangent, I I shot a my first documentary film was called I Am Human, and it was it was made like a genre film, like they wanted it to be like a genre movie, so it's like we shot at anamorphic lenses, we shot at like and I didn't really have any that much documentary experience then, so it was like how to capture this film as if it's a narrative film, very sci-fi elements, very sci-fi framing, but it's you it's real people, real surgeries, real everything everything. So it was such a good challenge to really put your head in the mindset of like how do I tell this story without being able to completely, you know, change the script or change the direction. You know, you're in you're in someone's house who's like blind and we had to tell the story, you know, but it's like how to light it, how to frame it. And it it was so it was such a good challenge that I found like it was probably some of the best I've learned about myself and just how I how to approach stories, because it's you can definitely take that stuff from a documentary world and into a narrative, like when you read the script, like how do I like what's the base of our what we're trying to do here? What kind of story are we trying to tell? So it was like, yeah, so I love to do documentary in that kind of way. in terms of you know real things you don't have any of the the bells and whistles and time to you know to make it all fake like so you've kind of got to think on the spot a lot more um when you're doing your Verite stuff and yeah so I have fun fun whenever I get a chance.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

I sort of I cut my teeth as it were when I first started in my career for film doing EPKs for other films. And that was a similar thing where it was just like like I can't tell anyone there what to do or what to say. So I just have to try and capture events and you've got just got to keep an eye on every corner and like what are they talking about? And the way they're talking over there like does that look that and then maybe we'll get a voiceover from someone else later and it kind of has like a reference to it. And it's just that keeping your eye open for whatever you see there and then instead of like you were saying just sort of like right I've got to set up this shot. This is what I want it to look like. It's like nope don't worry about that just what's happening? What's the best way you can get what's happening and it's like oh this is an interesting way of training your brain.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

Exactly yeah and I think it it really it really helped. So I I do love I do love working on documentaries whenever possible in in the middle of all the other narrative stuff so whenever possible yeah I am human was a great learning experience and that I had actually done just before that I I did a New York segment of Morgan Spurlock first did it like who's the guy who did um supersized me and and had made some really great documentaries but he made a a documentary about rats and he wanted to make a horror documentary and it's it's about rat colonies that are all over the world and it's it's truly terrifying like it's really good. And my buddy Luca was shooting it and he wasn't able to do the they had to do a New York segment of it and I so I went down and did all that and I'm never thought I'd like voluntarily be like lying on the subway platform in Chinatown in Manhattan getting shots of rats but just trying to find the right angles and stuff. But it was like but it was such an interesting concept um and yeah uh a genre documentary is a really great way of of training yourself to what is needed to tell a story you know so so I kind of brought that experience with me onto the I am human one yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

I'd say I'd sooner be lying on the subway floor trying to find rats than any office job. Yeah exactly instant choice. 100% are you solely a cinematographer or do you are you looking at anything like producing wise in the future?

SPEAKER_00 24:32

No no yeah just solely a cinematographer which is funny that was why when I went to the Australian film school that was one of the trick questions that a friend of mine who went a few years before me told me because so many cinematographers like want to be directors and they they'll ask you like in your interview process because there's like there's like a written test and then there was like a lighting test and then there was an interview and like during the interview like they'll just throw it in there like what kind of films would you one day want to direct and if you answer if you answer anything but like I'm a cinematographer mate I don't want to direct anything. I don't care about how it looks yeah like you could be you could have nailed everything else but if you say like it's I it's changed now because it there's new heads of cinematography and stuff but when I was there if you said like yeah I mean one day I'd like to direct this you are out like you were good.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Yeah yeah you know what I mean because I it like it does annoy me that it's like be amazing at the thing you're good at don't yeah don't try and sidestep into good stuff into another good thing.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

Oh I know right and it's just like some people have so so good like I it's like I love like what Wally Fister did with with Nolan but he it's like yeah to go direct that Johnny Depp movie you know and do commercials and you know and he's brilliant and I'm sure he's he loves it. I'm sure he does really well but it's like sure to to give you know to give up being Nolan cinematographer would be a decision like I you know for for some but I some people really want to direct I guess considering like it's it's Nolan is such a visual storyteller.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Like I know his his stories are very uh complex but there is such a visual element to all of his films that if you're his guy then they're your films too. You know what I mean like if you're just a jobbing cinematographer that you know you're working on films where people go like oh yeah the the lead actor was good and that's all they've got to say about it then it's like yeah go branch off if you've not got a thing. But if you've established yourself you know like if Deacon started to do directing I'd be like settle down boy gamma well well I I do know it's like years ago and like I I'm sure it's but I'm sure it's probably knowledge because it's been in other stories but like one of my favorite cinematographers growing up is actually the person that I first heard about cinematography through was John Seal who's one of the greatest cinematographers ever and he actually he went to the my high school many years before me.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

And so like I was in high school when he won the Academy Award for the English patient. And he's he's brilliant he's like the nicest funniest like if you listen to his Deacons podcast I think they talk about like fighting and working with horses within the first 45 minutes before they talk get to cinematography. But anyway he he went and direct because he used to shoot he shot like witness and stuff for Peter Weir and I but I believe John John got an opportunity to go direct a a film and when I came back to it I I believe it was like Peter was going to do another film and he was like I don't work with the other directors like I work with cinematographers so and that's kind of how their you know relationship stopped so I think it's one of those if it's something you really want to do you know I think it's the only film John's ever directed um you know maybe maybe there's an itch to scratch for some people um but I mean luckily luck lucky for us he he came and kept on shooting and made like Fury Road and he's a he's a brilliant man and a brilliant cinematographer and and a great great guy but for me I don't have any sort of itch to scratch in terms of directing for sure.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Like I I love I love what I do and that the collaboration of it but yeah I've I think there is like from the cinematographers I've worked with and the people who I know want to be directors I think there is a very sort of clear line of the type of person and as a director I don't feel bad about saying this they can't say it's it's a type of person who uh requires a a lot more sort of like oh I I I I want to tell this story, I want to do these things whereas I've always found like decent sort of decent actors, decent producers, decent people that know where they want to be they focus 100% into their role and you can tell that there is a difference in the way that they approach it. They're not approaching it from a I think I could do this better. They're approaching it in the how can I make this the best I can do with what I've been asked to do with it. And I think like oh that's the person I'd always rather work with because they're trying to think what's the what's the best way we can make this whole picture not how can I carve my name into this and it's like no no no no no let's take everyone's names off it. Let's just do that. No one's names are on it. The only name is the title just make whatever makes this thing great. And if this doesn't make this great then we'll try again next time.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

Yeah exactly and like and as a cinematographer like my job like I love collaborating with directors and I've worked with all sorts of directors who are like some who are so extremely technical and know what they want from a technical side in terms of like lighting and lenses and all that stuff and that can be great. Or like I've worked with directors who just like don't have any sort of knowledge necessar or care more more so about that stuff. Like they're so good actors and story and like they rely on me to kind of talk through that stuff with them and I love that and it's like and I love all the different aspects you get of working with different people in different um on different films and projects but I I just yeah I don't I I I respect how some cinemographers get to a really big point and they in their career and then they get an offer and then I said sure I'll go direct. Why not me? But yeah but yeah I'm I I'm not me. Won't be me.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

No I've I I've always uh respected the I don't know what to do that's why you're here it's that like it's that simple. Yeah yeah yeah yeah you've mentioned some um filmmakers from you know growing up and all that kind of stuff and I wonder if these all you know come into your history of film but uh as everyone's first film wasn't their choice uh what was the first film you went to the cinema to see it's it's really fun to kind of try to scratch the memory of of this but because I I in my head I had always said it was Teen Wolf but then I looked up Teen Wolf.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Like I'm 45 so I'm all I'm getting old now but so but then I looked up Teen Wolf and I think it came out in like 85 and like I definitely didn't see that in the cinema. So then I looked I'm like no it had to be the Jason Bateman classic Teen Wolf 2 I went to the cinema because I think I would have been like eight years old about eight years old at the local cinema. Because it it's it's interesting because like when you think about the timeline of films and and whatnot back in Australia and it it used to be so different with um when things were projected on film because like they didn't send fresh reels to Australia when the movie to come out the same day so as I started to you know go to the movies more and stuff like I remember movies would come out that I would hear about and want to go see and it would be like six to eight months after they'd been released in the US because I had to finish those runs and stuff so it's like so normally yeah we'd get a bit of had to wait a while to go see them but yeah the the Jason Bateman brilliant um boxer it was a boxer in that one wasn't he I think the first one was basketball second one yeah he was a boxer yeah but I remember going with one of my family friends uh Ryan who was a couple of years older than me and I think we're probably menaces in the theatre just being a big popcorn but it was like I just remember being so magical and so much fun like watching this ridiculous movie that I I don't know I was probably still too young to see I you know but you know with popcorn and just my friends and no parent supervision you know it was it was just magical and yeah I I I do remember being in that little theatre seeing that film.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

It's interesting that you mentioned that they were old knackered prints I used to be a projectionist and uh back when it was all 35mm so I would splice them all together and when you got an old print that you'd just you'd be swearing at the previous like cinema who had it you're like you sons of bitches you could have just run a cloth over this you could have done anything and then when you're breaking it down you couldn't give a flying fuck what you're doing. You're just like ah get it get it back in the reel fuck it off fuck it off not my problem did you put the headers and footers back in the right place?

SPEAKER_00 32:54

Fuck them they'll figure it out if they can't marry them up because I mean even like going through like all my high school years like we we didn't get digital protection to probably you know when I was in film school so I and even I as I started learning about cinematography and discovered what I wanted to do like yeah I'd go to the movie sometimes with friends to see whatever and it's like sometimes you'd be seeing like this looks fucking awful you know like what it's like and you see now as you like with digital it's like with there's a you know it looks like a raw image because it's just like the colours have all kind of gone to shit and it's like fallen apart so it was just like yeah that was part of the part of the um downside of having to wait for Prince to get sent to Australia on a some slow boat you know so when you went to the cinema for the first time you said it was something magical it wasn't a very cinematic film.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

But had it was it just the idea of being in that room that kind of ignited it yeah it was the idea of just you know it it's just everyone like I I I have flashes in my memory of we sat way too close as well.

SPEAKER_00 34:01

Like we were in like the second row of a relatively empty theatre and it wasn't like a massive it was like the the manly cinema one wasn't like the bigger one that was a couple of kilometers away. But it was just like how everyone was kind of in there to kind of just watch and kind of enjoy something together and and yeah it was just a really fun time. And then I'm sure we were the shitheads making noise and laughing and stuff ruining it for everyone but it was still yeah it was just the idea of sort of just coming together everyone's in there to watch and experience the same thing together you know and I remember that being really really fun and really really liking it you know so this leads us maybe into your next uh question which is what film did you watch over and over again as a kid you've always already mentioned Team Wolf one. I I had not seen that for very like I've only seen that a few other times but it's fun because it's like I try to I mean there's so much content now that and when I've got kids like a 10 and a seven year old like I'm trying to get them like just don't watch the new stuff like let's go back and watch stuff. So sometimes you you know from the past but like I was thinking about like I think it's probably a tie but then there is a clear win actually I think the first would be my best friend when I was in like primary school his dad used to work in Hong Kong and used to bring us back like VHS rips of movies. Ah beautiful so it's like he brought empathy I remember him bringing back like home alone when I was like very young. But it it's funny like I didn't think I even realized till I was older that it was a Christmas movie. Like we were just so obsessed with like the booby traps.

SPEAKER_01 35:33

Like yeah for me oh yeah it's like it you know it's a one of the greatest Christmas films ever but it's like when I was a kid it was just like the booby traps are like the coolest thing ever and like I wanted to do it to every room in my house and just do it to my parents do it to dad mum and dad said they've got people coming over like good but let's fuck them up let's go find shit you know me and my brother broke my mum's big toe by setting up booby traps down the corridor and like they were silly like obviously coming but then on the last one she decided to do a silly fool did a a bad turn broke her big toe and we had to take her to the hospital.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

Oh no oh of course of course yeah no but it was just such a great it was such a fun fun film but I but no I think the film I watched the most which is actually funny because after thinking about this I showed it to my kids over the weekend was uh I loved Speed with Keanu Reeves like I watched that movie so many times like it's just dope film it was so much fun I thought Dennis Hopper was just such a great bad guy and it was just such a fun like and it's non and it like I watched again and it's yeah sure it's a bit ridiculous but it's like it's so much fun and it's just such a great you know containment. Was was it Yanderbund that shot it no Yanderbund directed directed it yeah yeah because yeah because he had done diehard and he brought all of his you know yeah yeah that's when it's that's when you switch to directing I guess if you can you know I guess it could be that yeah yeah yeah that that throws everything I said at the beginning out the window.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

It's like one of a thousand though right like one of a three normally um so after going through all these questions did it then make you want to show your kids a load of films?

SPEAKER_00 37:13

Well yeah it's like because we always like they they're really interested and they always want to watch and because it is so fucking cold outside it's like like no joke like Saturday the feels like here was minus 30 Celsius so it's like we can't do anything. Like you can't go outside because it's like they're like you know we can't they go outside to play can't walk the dog so it's like yeah we we've been watching a lot of films and you know that some of the newer ones and stuff but it's like I look up you know what rating is speed like can I show the kids I'm like got a few words in here and there but I'm like they're all 90s 18 yeah that's a 2025 12. Exactly exactly so like yeah but no so it's like a so we decided yeah let's watch speed over the week and then they loved it they were like it's so much fun and like my my youngest daughter said a new celebrity crushes Keanu so it's like not a bad one. Yeah he's a he's a decent guy yeah he's just such a wonderful human being by all reports so it's like we love him and love his film so but gotta get you know and I'm sure now that'll lead us into like the Keanu marathon at some point like I'm sure the Matrix is in a um babes in Toyland the old TV movie he did. There you go there's another one is that right yeah yeah it's Tread so yeah no so have you shown them many uh Aussie films not many Aussie films I think like Babe Pig in the city might be one of the only ones of the Babe the Babe and Babe yeah technically that's an Aussie film yeah because um which is actually because like I had quite a connection to those films because my um like Andrew Lesni who was a just one of the greatest cinematographers who did all the Lord of the Rings films and he he taught us when I was at the Australian film school for a little bit and he's just such a weird and wonderful guy and um but the babe films was like my my neighbour who lived like three doors down growing up was the production designer on those films. Oh shit so like when I first started getting interested in film like I'd go I used to play basketball with his son sometimes who went into and his son became a photographer which I always found interesting that he never like going to the photography path and had a dad in the film industry never to never made the switch but he's really really brilliant photographer but um but I would always go down there and kind of chat and he would show me some of his designs and kind of and then some of the stills from the films he would talk about like Andrew how Andrew lit it and stuff like that. So like the babe especially the babe pig in the city set because that was it was quite a big set that they built and that he designed and stuff so it was a it was quite a classic Australian film but I think I I think I've only shown my oldest daughter that one so maybe we've got to get to the babe films again. But I think because Australian films there's so many of them are more like a bit more grown up so I think we haven't yeah like Australians really love especially the ones that I loved and connected with are definitely way more of like your crime dramas or your crime so the Australian used to love to make good crime sort of stories. Yeah like I definitely don't think I'll show my kids chopper anytime soon you know so I don't know why yeah they gotta know about Mark Brendan Reed right now. Exactly why the guy have ears but then I can tell the story how how but then I can tell them the story how I met him once you know so it's just like good times like back when he was doing his tour tour around he was doing like a stand-up tour.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

It wasn't just randomly in like Tasmania just Brendan's farm.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

No it was just at a pub where that he was doing a a big talk app me and my friends got there early to go for the meat raffle and and he just happened to be there early as well and we just went up to the chopper and he sat and he sat with us while we're having a beer which like this is so surreal like I can't believe this is happening right now.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

For years I wanted a King Kong tattooed to my stomach for so long. And I might still get it.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

Wonder that's a that's a really yeah that's a really good bucket bucket list. Like it's got if the night is perfect if the planet's aligned King Kong is going on the belly like boom done. But yeah yeah I mean I that is weird like whenever I think of any Australian film it is things like Wake in Fright or uh the Cars That Ate Paris Hanging Rock as well like Picnic Rock's such a brilliant film but it's like again I just I don't think there are an age that they would appreciate it or kind of get that any of that kind of stuff. So yeah I just don't I know like I really do love a lot of Australian films um especially from like when I was when I was learning and and whatnot um so I think that's I think there's what one thing that I kind of gotta mention as well when talking about films and it's it's it's very interesting because so many people get into this industry for the love of films and love of like directors and and whatnot you know like love films and like an encyclopedia of films and you know you you Tarantinos and you people who can just like school says who just like seen every film under the sun and it's like and I appreciate that so much but like that was never me. Like I didn't get into this for a love of film per se. I discovered cinematography through a different route and like I fell in love with the art of cinematography and the and the collaborative nature and the technical side of it and just like what a cinematographer's job and role is on a production and like I absolutely love that. So in my learnings as becoming a cinematographer that's when I um I started to watch a lot of films like I went through and like watched every film John Seal had shot like especially some of the Australian cinematographers like that I that I was lucky enough to know and be in touch with and Andrew Lesny and and all these guys and there was just such a strong I think like years ago there was like four years in a row that like the Australians won the Oscar for best cinematography like Russell Boyd and Master in Canada. Yeah yeah but it's like yeah Johnson and I I mean they just the Australians have pumped out some great cinematographers but it's like I I I think it was for me to discover film through cinematography and that aspect is kind of and it has been interesting because like I I still I I've never been like a massive like film snob and it's got to be the it's art baby. You know like I remember when I was at film school like I yeah I went to the Australian film school and like on the one Monday I was in there talking to a couple of the my other cinematography students and one of them was like what'd you do on the weekend I said I just went out with some mates on Sunday night and I was really hungover and went and saw I don't know was probably Transformers or some some Michael Bay type but and he's like how do you watch that shit? I'm like mate I was really hung over and the thought of just being in a dark room with a Coke and a popcorn was magic to tent up. Yeah and it's like I don't I didn't I don't need art.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

Like I don't need to watch like a a French new wave film I think if you can't appreciate a movie like for what it is, which is entertainment, then I think you're missing out on so much Because it's just like I I love I when I was at uni, me and my buddy Dave, who was a cinematographer for a while, um we had spent all day learning about Italian neorealism and then he came over to my house afterwards. We ordered a pizza and we watched Pacific Rim and Alpha Papa, the Alan Partridge film. And we were both just like that's they're sick.

unknown 44:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

Perfect. And I thought that's what I needed.

SPEAKER_00 44:25

And I think that's what made makes it so great, because it, you know, it all depends on your mood, it depends on the it's but it's just like if if I only sit down and watch the like old Criterion films, like I just don't think that's to me, that's not what I want to get out of movies, you know. Like, yes, brilliant movies, I'd love to work on some films that are that deep and brilliant, but it's also like, yeah, sometimes I just want to see shit blow up, you know.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

I mean, to be fair, if you look at my letterbox, it s swaps over from 90s Hong Kong like Cat 3 gore films to criterion documentaries on Vietnam War, and they'll both get a four out of five, you know what I mean? And it's just like, no, no, no, you've got to have both. You've got to have the rough with the smooth, you know. I've got to watch Stone, and then I'm allowed to watch Mad Max.

SPEAKER_00 45:09

Exactly, exactly. Yeah, and I think I think that's the way to that's the way to be, and that's kind of how I've, you know, over the years of like watching movies and and disc like discovering films that people are like, how are you haven't you seen this yet? It's like, well, I just was it was never like all through high school watching old films. Like I just that wasn't what I did. And I, you know, I just like I yeah, I discovered cinematography right as I finished high school. Even though John had won the Oscar, I'd heard about it that way, which was a great way to kind of get in touch with John. But um but no, I discovered cinematography like when I was finishing high school, and and yeah, so that's when I started to dive in through s what is cinematography, what do I like in that, you know, and it's it's been a fun way of watching films.

SPEAKER_01 45:50

That's a nice way to do it. And I think I used to be a I used to feel that sort of that guilt of not having seen certain films, and now my brain is completely changed into I haven't yet seen Dr. Chivago. How much fun's that gonna be? Yeah, like it it so what if I haven't seen it yet? I'm looking forward to it. I'll watch it eventually and it's gonna be dope. Like so when someone says to me, You haven't seen that yet, I'm like, I know, isn't that gonna be great when I finally do?

SPEAKER_00 46:15

Yeah, it's gonna it's gonna be great, and like I, you know, and like I do want to watch all sorts of you know, like I I only saw Stalker like last year, like the and you know, it's a brilliant like and Deacon says it's one of his favorites, and it's like I know it's a film I should watch, so it's just like I've got to find the right time and place. Yeah, exactly. Like, I'm just shit. Yeah, like I'm just not someone that can just pump them out every day and just like let's let's watch these films, you know. So yeah, I th I think I don't think I think a lot of people might feel pressure, you know, that they've got to be some sort of movie historian or buff and stuff like that, but you don't have to be to have some have some success in this industry, you know.

SPEAKER_01 46:57

Yeah. I think being being interested is the thing that I am more interested in. If you if you tell me about your favourite like filmmakers from the giallo period of Italian cinema, I'm like, oh dope. And if someone tells me why they love the Teenage Moot Ninja Turtles, like Michael Bay produced ones, I'm like, oh sick. Like you've got passion for whatever you're talking about, that's what I care about. You've got the passion. If you want to talk about how much you love sitting in a dark room and just completely getting washed over by this story, sick. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

Yeah, like I think unlike my Letterboxd Top 4, like I think like I I know, I know I've got Nacho Libra on there. Like, I love that movie. Like Jack Black. Get that cone out of my face. It's just so good. Like, I love it so much. And like it's funny because I saw that when I was backpacking many years ago, uh, when I was in Canada, and after I'd been in Canada, I went down to Mexico, and I remember like really enjoying the movie when I saw it. Well, like it's a bit ridiculous, you know. But then like I went to a lucha libra m match in Mexico City, and there was like a midget, and there was like a midget in a gorilla costume, and I was just like, it's all real. Like this is it's like it wasn't far-fetched at all. Like, this is all real. There's a documentary. Yeah, yeah. But it's just like, I mean, I just thought I just laugh so much at that movie and its humour, and yeah, and it's just like for me, that's yeah, that's why it's like I would put it as one of my top four films, you know, just because time and place, yeah, you know, that it it I may not watch Stalker in the right mind frame, but I will watch Alan Partridge Alpha Papper in the right mind frame on a certain day and think that was perfect. Exactly, right?

SPEAKER_01 48:31

Exactly. And that's all I need. Yeah. Um so uh you've you have hinted some more grown-up e adult e films, but what was the first uh what did you would you guys did you have 18s or did you have R's or X's?

SPEAKER_00 48:47

Yeah, it was it was M, which is like fifth for 15, recommended 15 and under, then MA, like mature adult for fifty had to be fifteen and older, and then it was and then it was R for 18.

SPEAKER_01 49:01

Um Yeah. So what was the first R-rated film you saw and how old were you?

SPEAKER_00 49:06

Well, I I know I had seen at a friend's house, I I I'm sure so many people saw Nightmare on Elm Street first. But it's like I don't really I was definitely too young to be watching, and I remember what you know, I remember bits and pieces I wasn't too scared by, and it was it was you know it was a cool, fun film, but it wasn't something that I like I really um was that into or took notice of at the time. But I think I I distinctly remember it would have been right around my 14th, I would my 14th birthday. I saw the trailer and I was obsessed and I wanted to see seven so bad. It was coming out a few weeks before my 14th birthday. So it's like it's it's a lot, it's a lot. So I convinced my mum like because it's like I don't like I think I'd already yeah, it's just I found it so interesting, and like I think I was coming to an age, like I'm sure a lot of kids like serious is so interesting, and this is just such a such an interesting film, and like so I actually made my mum take me to the cinema like on my birthday, and she's like, I'm I'm his mother, I I say he can watch this film, and they said absolutely fucking not, you know.

SPEAKER_01 50:18

Like I'm so where a woman gets stabbed to death with a dildo sword, and your mum's like, I said what I said.

SPEAKER_00 50:25

I didn't tell her that better than a trade. It's probably a good thing I didn't have to watch it with my mum because then it would have been really awkward.

SPEAKER_01 50:31

Oh mate.

SPEAKER_00 50:32

But um, but still, but then it's like, well, I really want to see this movie. So whenever the six months later that it came out on VHS, I'm like, Mum, that movie's out. Can you go rent it for me? They rented it, and I watched I watched seven when I was probably like yeah, 14 or 15, and it's like and it's and talk about that's that film's still on that's still my favorite film, I'd say.

SPEAKER_01 50:52

Like I that film holds up so well.

SPEAKER_00 50:54

Yeah, and like I just I love it, I just love it. I just think everything about it, it's just it's so well crafted and executed and acted and the cinematography and the just everything is just so masterful. There's no flat on it, yeah. And like I I love I love Fincher and like I could do just you know top five films and just interchange most um Fincher films, but like E7, I just it for me obviously had a point in my brain of seeing it so young that it stood out, but like I um I just love I loved it so much, so I was definitely too young to be watching it on VHS alone and you know that thanks thank you.

SPEAKER_01 51:29

What was your view on Alien 3?

SPEAKER_00 51:33

Yeah I think I I think I don't I don't yeah it's like I don't I didn't like it as much as the other two pre preceding it, but it's like I I I didn't hate it, and that's when you I kind of remember reading into like just how much Fincher was handicapped. And so I would love to see him get his hands to be able to do his complete redo. Because it's like that's but it's also like I'm I'm I'm a fan for it because that's I think when Fincher, from what I've read, is when he ri realised that the studio weren't gonna support him and he was just gonna say, fuck you, I'm gonna do what I want from here on out. Like, thank God he did, you know, because look what he's done since, you know. And he totally. But no, I did I didn't think it's an awful, you know. I don't think it's all I I would love to see his his version fully, but it's like I didn't definitely didn't hate it.

SPEAKER_01 52:20

There's a director's cut that got released fairly recently. Which is actually it's it makes a lot more sense and there's a lot more sorry, there's some ruckus going on outside. It makes a lot more sense and it's um added scenes back in that they they like had cut out. And I love it. Like I think those first three alien films, I think they're all equally perfect. They just happen to be dealing with different subjects. Definitely, and that's it. Like I think there's no when everyone says like which is your favorite alien, I'm like, well, there's one, two, three.

SPEAKER_02 52:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:54

That's one.

SPEAKER_02 52:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:56

Then Jean Pierre Genet's four.

SPEAKER_02 52:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:58

And then there are other alien films. Yeah. That's that.

unknown 53:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:03

It's gonna be like Alien vs Predator is my favorite, you know? No, and then Requiem is the best. Exactly, yeah. But no, I had about I had a few friends that work on some other on like the Resurrection, I think it was. They shot it in like I had a bunch of friends from Australia crew went over and did that, and they you know, I mean the sets, the what I mean, what an amazing franchise to work on, you know. I mean, there's such a amazing world, but but like I always thought with that with that franchise, like I love you know what Ridley Scott said about like like how you know he was the one that had to design the alien, and it was all about the build-up of this and that, and whereas the second one is like alien, right? You know, it's just such a great action film. They're so so different, but but yeah, no, they're just such such great worlds. But um I think I've got a frame picture that I I somehow stole from Panavision back in the day when I left. When they they moved they were moving buildings, but it's like of of Darius Kunji on set of when he was shooting for Fincher back back on that. So he's but no, he's I I yeah, but but seven to me is amazing. I actually had the without sorry, sidetracking too much. I was on I was on set. I was on set, I did a film called Nobody Wants to Shoot a Woman, which came out earlier this year. And we're shooting in Chelsea in Manhattan, and of all things we were shooting fucking car interior, boring stuff, but I was trying to do some really moody, low light, like light coming through and stuff. And I remember my logan, my first AC on that. I get over the walk, he goes, uh Joel. I don't know how to tell you this, but Darius Kunchi's on the monitor, and I was just like, Oh god, like why am I shooting current interiors? Like, I wish I wasn't shooting current. Fucking today?

SPEAKER_01 54:46

Today's the day, is it?

SPEAKER_00 54:47

Like, why am I shooting car interiors with like one of the greatest cinematographers of all time is watching, and I'm just like fuck. So remember, we finished we finished that shop and we pulled over to the the curb where we were and we'd gotten that the door opens, and there was like, hello, I am Darius, and he was just and he was there to shake him out, and I was just like, I am fucking shitting myself, you know. Like this is just one of those moments like I cannot believe this is happening. Um, but he was like, We'd done with we were done with that scene, and and Eddie, the first day, I think, realised like I think Joel's gonna need a few minutes because I don't think we're gonna be able to pull him away from chatting with Darius. And it actually turned out like he he knew one of our producers and he'd seen some of the footage of the film before that. And like, so we actually got a got to chat um for for like probably 25 minutes, half an hour, and just like and like I and I I told him how it's like seven was just such an inspiring, you know, just such an inspiration for his use of darkness and and everything. And like when we'd spoken a lot about the look of nobody wants to shoot a woman, and he was like, Oh, you know, from what I've seen, yeah, he's just like what what you're doing with your darkness, he's like that that inspires me. And like I almost passed out. I'm like, yeah, genuine talk about a taboo, you're gonna get put around in there. Like, I I just hearing Darius Kunji say that, I'm just like, oh my god, this is just the greatest moment of my life, you know. But it was just he was just such a wonderful, wonderful person, and just such a yeah, it's just so friendly and kind, and gave me tips, you know, spoke about filters and lenses, and he just like it was wonderful. But yeah, but seven was always been such an inspiration. So to get to meet him and hang out with him and was was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 56:22

Man, that's fucking beautiful for you. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 56:24

Yeah, I'll just I'll just I'll send you the photo of me and him on set. Like couldn't couldn't punch with a smile off my face, you know.

SPEAKER_01 56:30

I tell you what though, like you're worried about like shooting car interiors. Yeah. He's he's shot car interiors, he knows what's happening, you know what I mean? So you're over there, like, this isn't my best work, and he's probably there going, like, I bet he's get that he can't do his best work. Yeah, because I know what that's what I like. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Um, so I mean, uh Seven is a pretty grown-up film, but what was the first film you watched that you considered grown up?

SPEAKER_00 56:54

I I think for this, I would the first film I'd consider grown up. There was a New Zealand film, like my dad's from New Zealand, and um and his best friend, him and his best friend Ra went to see the film Once Were Warriors together, and it was it's uh Temul Mor uh was his name Ta Temu Morrison for plays like Bubba Fat. And um it's cooked the man some fucking eggs. Cooked the man some fucking eggs. Like I I saw that film, I think we had to watch it in high like we watched it in high school, but it's like I distinctly remember like my dad's best friend having such an impact because he's he he's got Maori blood in him and he grew up in a low lower income part of New Zealand, so it was like it hit home so much that it was the then that film was so raw, and like and like i I I remember dad saying it was just such an amazing film, and I can't remember if I watched it like soon after, or like we had to watch it with through school or something, but I remember watching in my late like mid-later teen years of watching Wonder Warriors, and it was just it is one of the heaviest movies like I've ever seen, but it's it is so brilliant and just such a well-acted film. And like uh Timmy Romrison had only been like it was like New Zealand's George Clooney before then, you know, like he'd been in a like in a soap opera um playing a doctor before then, you know, like and he came out it's it's like Eric Banner was a comedian before Chopper. Yeah, you know, yeah, it's like go watch don't think No, and I think that's yeah, it's like go watch his Poida sketches. Poida. I can't believe you know that stuff. Poida.

SPEAKER_01 58:38

It's like uh when he does Horsey into the swimming pool.

SPEAKER_00 58:41

Yeah, yeah. Fucking loved it. So when people people always ask, like, what's the movie quote you uh you quote that like no one else knows, but it's like for me, I I always thought, uh Twister, Twister, yeah, Twister. Because like, have you seen the c The Castle? Which is like the one of the most iconic estrangers. Oh, I know it. I know it. I really want to watch it though. But it's like because like, yeah, he plays like a kickball, he's like the daughters, they went come back from their honeymoon, and they're like, What movies are playing on the plane? He goes, Oh yeah, uh Twister, Twister, yeah, Twister. It's like just pops in my head, but he's so good in it, and it's like just such a good comedic actor and just brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 59:14

But but I think uh one of the ones that always sticks in my head is from is it the nugget where he goes, We've just ordered our second Mongolian platterboys, that means we've made it.

SPEAKER_00 59:26

Oh, so good. Oh my god, so good. Yeah, it's so funny, but but that's the thing, and like and now with Timura Morrison, like seeing him have such a hugely successful career is so great. Because like and like I I bet a lot of people that have watched Bubble Fat have never seen Once Were Warriors, but like it was just something about that film that you know it was just so brilliantly performed and and and such a raw look at what it was like in in these areas, you know, like and and yeah, having like family and my yeah, my my New Zealand family and and thought that, like knowing this is how life is in these communities and stuff like that. And like I remember that was the first movie that I watched in a way that like it knew that it was really real, and it wasn't like any sort of glossed up Hollywood anything like that. Like this was as raw as it gets and as real as it gets, and and just how bad you know domestic violence can be in these communities, you know. So, yeah, that Once a Warrior stands out to me as a a film that like I still think is just it's one of the most incredible, you know, performances, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:31

Australian and New Zealand films really have like they can really capture that fucking grim nastiness. And not in like, you know, like oh this guy's a nasty guy. It's like I watched Snowtown the other day, and that was it's it's just like oh yeah, it's just an horrible and bleak, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:50

Yeah, watch it. I'm I'm blanking on his name, the the lead actor from Snowtown. I've worked with him before. Yes, yeah, just on a little commercial thing in New York, and um and yeah, my friend had just watched Snowtown. I'm like, it's Ben, I think it's yeah, I'm blanking on his name, sorry. But he um I'm like, can you get a can you put your hands around my neck so you can take a photo to send to my buddy who just watched Snowtown? He's like, yeah. So I've got this photo of him like choking me, and I'm being like, send it to my a friend of mine. He's like, that movie was so grim, but yeah, I think, and that's what I mean about like, you know, I haven't shown too many of my Australian films to my kids yet, because I just think yeah, that genre of like crime and grittiness and um stories is just what Australia does, and and New Zealand is like so well that I think it's like that's definitely a more grown-up genre. But like once we get into Australian film, I I think it's there's just so many good films to watch.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:45

There's fucking loads, and I love them. I love them. What film holds a special place in your heart?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:50

Uh I mean I think the couple that come to mind like for different because I think there's like films for like inspiration and films just in general life. Like, I think as a general life, and this is a really wild card for me, is like and and again, it f it's funny how these films that it's a reason why they're probably in like my top four letterbox, but like Garden State. Oh really? I love I love that film a lot, but there's when I first saw it like I I I really liked it and like for a lot of reasons, but there's there's a scene in it, like I when I was 16 years old, I autumn I started to have seizures and I got diagnosed with epilepsy that only that only laugh last for for a few years. Like I think they I they stopped when I was like 22 or so maybe. Um but I used to be really embarrassed by it, and I used to really know not how to deal with it. And I never had the grand mouth seizures and or any of that stuff. I'll just like pass out, and like people would think, Oh, he's drunk, he's this, that, and you know, like um, but I really I really struggled with it, and like I and I remember seeing Garden State and like a friend of mine, I taught at a summer camp in upstate New York years ago, and my friend Paul is just like he was savage, and the first thing he said to me, he goes, So here you're an epileptic. I'm like, yeah. And he's like, You're not getting any fucking sympathy from me. I was just like, Who is this guy? What? I don't fucking want me. What are you talking about? But then I did like he but he's like one of the funniest people I've ever met, and he just like gave me this way, and by the end of it, like I had a t-shirt that said Epo, shaken, not stirred, that I that I had a that I had a that I had a seizure in one day, or I had a fit in one day, and like I remember being on the ground, like passed out, and I just hear this hysterical laughing coming from behind, and everyone's like, Paul, you're an arsehole, you're such an arsehole, Paul. And he's like, But look at the shirt, look at the Come on, it's so fitting! Yeah, and it but it's just like it was just so funny, but anyway, the a bit of a detour, but like in Garden State, like when Natalie Portman's character talked about why she wears the the her helmet, and she's like, you know, because like Evelyn's like I you know, it's like, yeah, it makes me sad, but like I you've gotta laugh at it. And it's just like this whole life outlook that I'd been searching for in a way, and the way the way that she worded, the way she put it, and it was just just hit home more than I think anything I I've experienced in a film before. Um, and overall, like I just I love that film and the soundtrack and the the way characters come in and out and whatnot. But no, mainly just as a personal thing, that just really hit such a chord in me and how I wanted to approach that, which is now you know, haven't had it for 20 odd years, but it was like it when it came on, yeah, it was that one uh was definitely holds a place in my heart. But I I think professionally it was I would say it's kind of a tie between Sleepy Hollow, because when I saw Sleepy Hollow, that was the first time I saw something that was just like it was when I was first getting interested in cinematography and just seeing I I don't think I'd seen a stylized film like that before, and just what light could do. I mean it was Chivo with Tim Burton, like what a combination.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:02

Yeah, it was the same writer as Seven, so exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:06

There's a pattern here, but it's like there's just such a it was just this eye-opening thing of just like of wow, like light can do this, like you can do these things with light. That was just like, oh my god, like when of my yeah, my interest was first kind of peeking at cinematography. I was like, just seeing what light could do, I think that really inspired me to want to continue being a cinematographer.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:29

But that that colour palette in grey in that film is amazing. The fact that you can get so much tonal depth. It's grey. It's like, how are you doing this? This is like this is so colourful, and there's no colour.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:43

Exactly, yeah. And it's like, I mean I mean Chivo is just such a genius, but I mean now you know, obviously his films he's been doing have been so different, but like I just I it's just some magical work. But but my favorite cinematographer when I was discovering all these was uh Conrad Hall, who apparently When I watched the behind the scenes or the the commentary on the Sleepy Hollow DVD shot the opening scene of like the close-ups of the pen of of like the stamp sorry on the letter like Connie Hall shot that and like like I just love Conrad Hall so that was my other film in a place in my heart. Like when I when I saw Road to Pedition, I was thinking like as a cinematographer, for me, that's the holy grail. Like I don't know if any other piece of it's to me, it's it's like I don't think films should be perfect, but to me in terms of cinematography, like Conrad Hall, like we studied it at film school, like in terms of screen direction, framing and lighting, and just like composition, just everything about that film, and the fact that like he left us, like that was like his last film before he passed away after these just incredible um career films. Like that so seeing that film was just like this it this is cinematography in a capsule to me, I think. So that film, like you know, everyone's got their favourite cinematography films and this and that, but for me, it's like I think Conrad Hall and what he did in Road to Edition is just an absolute masterpiece.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:06

Beautiful, yeah, beautiful, it's great. That's nice. So you've had some lovely, uh wonderful, heartwarming stories and memories, but now for the juicy question, what's your controversial opinion on a famous film?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:20

Oh I mean it's so tough. I feel like you can go again, as per a person that's not like an Uber, you know, film critic, and I don't just want to say that I didn't understand my hull and drivers or something like that, but which um I do You and me both. Yeah. I people that when I see that people on people's top four, they're just like, you're you're lying to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:42

You know, I don't believe he's dead now, you don't have to try and press him.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:45

All right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's like, but no, I think for me it's and I i it's a controversial take, but it's also just about the whole premise of how things are marketed. And for me, it's it's got to do with I mean, in the broader sense of Nolan, I think he gets a lot of passes for a lot of stuff that I think this is kind of ridiculous. But for me, it's like the I thought like the whole this you must see Oppenheimer on the biggest screen possible, and like this is shot in IMAX, this is the most necessary you know, you have to see it. So I did, like I went to the biggest IMAX I could see it. We all did, yeah, and it's just like the whole fucking movie's a close-up, you know, like and like Heute van Heutemir is brilliant, and I you know, he deserved his off-screen and some beautiful stuff in that film, but it's like I just think it's just such a ridiculous thing to be like you you must see this on the biggest screen possible. I'm like, no, I don't, I just think it's like it it the whole thing's in a close-up, and also when it finally came to the explosion, I was kind of like, Is that it? Like, I get that you did it practically, I get that you did it practically, but it's also like this is where like I think adding some effects can make it bigger.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:59

You know, I just I get I can't unfortunately we've seen it done practically in a lot of old films, we've seen bombs go off. Show me what you can do, Nolan, because you've got a blank check. Exactly. We don't have blank check, you have a blank check, Nolan.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:13

Fucking show us. No, exactly. Like I just I I just thought the whole like, yeah, it was a good it was a great film, and uh and Hoyta is is a brilliant cinematographer. But I thought the whole bit of like you must see this, and like it's it's this, it's it's a close-up, you know, it tells the story really well, but it's it's I just think it's kind of it's just feels like such a film snobby type way of like no, you I don't think you have like some of these films, yes, you know, like Dunkirk, you know, you see big, big, big, big, big. But like, yeah, for me, like Oppenheimer is just like, shut up. Like, don't make people feel bad for watching this on their and TV, because I don't I don't really think it it it took away from what Oppenheimer was, you know. Like I think it was No, sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:56

And the cinemas around here did a IMAX day or like IMAX week, I think it was IMAX day, and instead of the normal like 25 bucks for a film, films were five bucks, and a large popcorn and drink was only five. So you you're seeing a film for a tanner. And Oppenheimer, that's when I went to see Oppenheimer because it was like, okay, I'll go see it. I'm not a massive Nolan fan, just putting it out. I like I don't want to be one of those film snobs where I'm like, I liked his early work, but I definitely preferred his early work. Yeah. Um and I saw it and the and the cinema was full, and I was like, this is lovely, but I just feel like we all want to see this, but we don't want to spend 20 bucks. But you're also kind of the only filmmaker that's making us do that. Like everyone else who releases something on IMAX, like I wouldn't sort of go Dune one and two in IMAX because it's a beautiful landscape. But like Oppenheimer and Tennant and all of these, it's like these don't need to be IMAX. And I don't know if you need to shoot in this, and I don't know why you're like you said, don't know why you're telling everyone to go see it, because just go see your film. Surely your film should have its merits. Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:14

Yeah, and I think that's just one of those it's like uh it's this achievableness of like, yeah, like what Nolan's, it's like oh shooting everything, it's everything has to be sure. IMAX. I'm like maybe you don't need to, you know, maybe you don't need to do this. Like I I thought as well, like like I interstellar, you know, I I enjoyed my wife hated it. Um but she still goes on about that. But um I'm on that side. Well when you see when you see like I the Eureka stuff, how people can forgive the Eureka scene and still be like, this is the best movie ever. I'm like, that cancels anything out. But um it's just like yes, I did go see that and the IMAX, and I was in New York when I went to see that on the one like he goes to test, the one on the upper west side. So it's brilliant, but it's like okay, that for for that film you said you must go see this IMAX, so it did, but then that film wasn't all shot on IMAX film, so the scenes that were shot on like 35 mil, when that was blown up to be such a scale, it felt like it was almost 16 mil in terms of the grain, which you know it can be beautiful, but it's like it's this space and stuff like that, and it's like it just didn't feel right on that scale, you know, to me. And I'm just like, yeah, I I just I just think the whole it's IMAX, it must be IMAX, it must be seen in IMAX. I think some films definitely, but I think there's just like with the way that he approaches it, I just don't really quite quite get, you know. And like I went to a talk with him at Tribeca Film Festival years ago, and it was interesting, and it was but it was it was him and Bennett Miller in conversation, who's who's just brilliant, and it was it was it was interesting, and they're kind of talking in Bennett had clearly gone and watched all of Christopher Nolan's films before the conversation, and it didn't feel that reciprocated, you know, in terms of like Foxcatcher and nothing else. Yeah, exactly. But it's like but it's just that's what I don't understand about the Nolan fandom. It's people are so obsessed, and like at the end when it came they opened up to a QA and people were asking Nolan about you know directing actors, and sure, I mean he is a a brilliant director and one of the greats. But it's like if you've got Bennett Miller and Christopher Nolan and you have a question about directing actors, like for me, like as someone that's not a director, but like the guy that got those performances those performances in Foxcatcher and Moneyball, and you know, like ask him a question, you know, and it just like follows.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:39

That's where my questions would be directed.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:41

Yeah. Like yeah, I just think there's a fandom around it that I just I think it it feels like it just it's just uh.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:47

Well, I do think he is the new Tarantino in the sense that regardless, everyone goes like, oh, but he's so good, he's so good. And it's like, well, hold on, hold on, hold on. Is he? And I'm not saying he isn't, I'm just making you question, is he? Yeah, because is what they're doing something you've never seen before? Yes. Is that good? Yes. Is that necessarily meaning that he's the best at it? No.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:14

Like so like Yeah, I mean for me, his films are relatively hit and miss in w whether I've liked them or love them or you know. Yeah, I I just I guess.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:27

They're all relatively and I'm being careful because I know that the Nolan fan base are like Taylor Swift fans. Um but like all of his films are adaptations of other people's work, essentially. And when he is touted as this sort of visionary, I'm like well, yeah, is he a visionary? Because if you've you know like go watch Stellan Skarsgard's Insomnia, like because it's a remake, you know, and it's like you you you do have to sort of uh point out things like is it uh paprika or is it paprika that's like most of uh um inception is paprika or something? I think it's that one, or is it another one? There's another one which I think it's an anime that has the exact same scene of the mirrors down alleyways, and you're just sort of like that's really cool if no one else has seen it. Yeah. But you also have to own that, like, oh no, no, I took. I took. It's a big collaborative pool. I find the things I find the most interesting and I want to build on them and I want to play with them, yeah. Which Tarantino does do, yeah. But like I feel like no one really for me the difference, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:42

I just feel like that the Christmas almost like it tries to make it feel unattainable for anyone else. Like this is something that he does and no one else can do, where it's like, well, you know, I what Denny did in June and Greg did like and what that is in IMAX or even what Autumn, you know, seeing sinners on IMAX and and whatnot, you know. But yeah, I just I think with Nolan, the difference for me with from Nolan and say Tarantino is like Nolan Tarantino went and did a screening of I think I can't remember, uh I think it might have been Django in Australia, and like he came and introduced the films, and like one of my friends was sitting in the row behind him during the movie, and I think the big difference is like they love him or hate him. Apparently, during the movie, Tarantino sat there with a bucket, a large bucket of popcorn and like a six-pack of beers of like VB in Australia, and like laughed at every joke and like you know, like just living for it, loving it, just like he didn't, you know, it just like I know. I just I it just feels like this no, it just feels this unrealistic kind of way of I also don't think Nolan likes foot on a pedal, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:47

Yeah, you know what I mean? Like I don't think he enjoys film, and it's like, oh then why is it like I don't know, I don't want to get into it because we were having such a lovely chat before. Why the fuck does he get all the money? Yeah, exactly. So what have you been watching recently?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:01

Uh I think recently it's been uh a lot of showing that my kids films because it's just been too cold to what to watch stuff. Um we just said the Planet of the Apes like Matt Reeves's Planet of the Apes films.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:13

Oh nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:14

And yeah, I mean Matt Reeves is yeah, he's a he's a very talented director, that guy. Like he he where he took that those couple of movies and and whatnot. But they were fun. But but besides like you know, showing my my daughters some films, just trying to get see some of the the Oscar contenders, um yeah, I mean I think it's it's just there's so much content now, it's so hard to kind of keep up and like my wife and I like to watch TV shows together, so you know, watch some watch some TV series and and stuff, but then I think the now it's like the three and a half hour long every movie can be can be hard. So like I'll be like to my wife on the weekend, like we finally get the kids to bear, like you want to watch something? She's like, nah, like not now. So it's like she's like, I do want to see that eventually I'm like, alright, I'll wait for you, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:01

Oh, but I I've got a separate list of like do you want to see this or do you want to see this?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:07

Yeah, well, exactly. Well, I think our lists have now gone separate because we actually watched, was it on Saturday or something that we watched begonia and like oh nice and like as soon as that movie finished, she's went like nope, and like walked off and like as she was doing a tea for the next 15 minutes, she's like, I just I can't get those hours back in my life, and like she just hated it so much. And like, I thought it was great. It's like it's a dark comedy, it's uh it's like it wasn't like I'm like, I was I was laughing all the way through, and like the performances, it was just like it was great. She's like, nope, nope, nope, nope, not doing that again. And that it's like it was similar to I you know, she's she doesn't like when she thinks it's weird for the sake of being weird, and I'm like, I don't think like like she did she did the same thing with everything everywhere all at once. Like after that, she's like, Nope. Yeah, she's just like nope, nope, didn't like that. I'm like, I loved it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:56

But yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:57

So I think now now if there's if it's too weird or it feels weird, I'm I'll probably watch that before, but you know, before showing the film.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:10

And you know, I've got a proper screening set up, so it's all good, but I'll I'll be sat there watching my films, and then sometimes I'll be watching something where I'm like, even I think that this might be a bit too weird. So whenever like Kirsty knocks on the door, I'm just sort of like, I'm gonna pause it, and I'm I'm not even and if you're like, How's the film? I'm like, it's fine. What do you want? It's like I can't, I can't let I you can't engage with this because even I think this is a bit off.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:32

Yeah, it's gonna be it's this is this is too much for your taste and stuff like that. Yeah, but it I don't know whether it's it's just weird because like I said, she didn't like Interstellar, but no, I I think for me it's a yeah, it's just like there's so many good films. Like, I don't even think I saw all like the best picture films last year. So it's like it's trying to catch up on some. It's trying to when I when I do get a chance, and like I I think now that I've finished a bit of um post-production on films and good, yeah, I was just in New York doing some doc stuff, and like I think now I've I've got a little bit of time, except for the kids who are off school all next fucking week. So I was like, oh no, can't do it next week. But I I I think I'll just could continue to try to to bang out some of the Oscar contenders and you know um yes, uh to see them uh again. And even like my parents were just in town like a and they again on a really cold day wanted to watch a film and they hadn't seen the brutalists, so they wanted so we watched that.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:24

Oh nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:25

Um and they they both really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:26

Low Crawley is well, Lol Crawley was born in the town I'm in at the moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:31

Oh really?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:32

Shrewsbury. Well uh but he didn't he lived in Powers, which is sort of like half an hour up the road. And when he when he won, I uh I don't know him, I've never met him, nothing. I just messaged him on Instagram and I was like, from if you're in Shrewsbury you refer to as a Mona. So I just said like from one monar to another, well done, lad.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:52

That's amazing. That was it. That's so cool. But yeah, yeah, no, it's great, beautiful, beautiful film. But no, I I think um yeah, I mean, but it again, it's like a like I said, like I still want to watch fun, dumb stuff as well when it comes out, you know. Like I I don't want to just only ever be especially when it's if like if I'm in pre-production, like I've just been talking about a possible film that I might be doing, uh I think it was gonna be April, maybe probably in the summer, and it's a bit of a road road trip um film. So it's like I I'll start uh like you know, not fully greenlit yet, but I'm the type of syndrome that like I don't wait until like alright, we've got the money, we start pre- you know, March, we've got a month of pre-like I want to you know just get into it as soon as possible. So I'll start you know marking those scripts and maybe watching some films that I I might think are relevant. So so I've been watching a few, like I watched um Itumamutambi and again, like uh which I hadn't seen in years. Yeah, just just to kind of with road trips and stuff like that, I just kind of get my head in the in that kind of stuff. But if that film pushes, I'll probably have more time to kind of watch some random stuff. But but when I get into pre-production, like I do watch a lot of references and trying to get get a director to give me, you know, there's not a bad reference, whether it be art or movies or shows, you know, send them all to me. And if you want me to watch a dozen films, like I'll try and get through them as as best as possible, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:18

So it's different when it's work, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:20

Like if it's for work, I'll watch whatever you need to do. Like, I judge a short film festival in North Carolina, and it's like I'll watch 30, 40, 50 short films, and I'm like, yep, cool. Yeah, I've got time for that. But if someone was like, Have you watched this film yet? I'm like, I haven't got time for the cinematography.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:35

Exactly, yeah. I have not been, exactly, yeah. Yeah, I'm actually going down for a film festival. I'm judging the cinematography of the film festival in Arkansas, um which is a really great film festival and random story. Years ago, I saw one of the best shorts I've ever seen. It's called B Flat. I I can't I don't know if it was it was made by an Argentinian filmmaker, and it was about some guy I I can't remember, that was a he's trying to find his crocodile, and if he played the right note on his on his trumpet, the crocodile would come back. Beautiful. But it was just this most random, funny film, and then like my friend, uh a director that I work with who runs that festival, he's like, dude, the guy that shot and produced B Flat was the guy that shot Train Dreams and s nominated for an Oscar. Uh so yeah, um, yeah, the cinematographer of tra of Train Dreams. So like again, like I messaged him on Instagram, and I was just like, you know, because uh train dreams is yeah, is work so beautiful. But I was like, I've loved B Flat for so long, like it's one of my favorite and he was just like, holy shit, yeah. He had a pretty funny response to it because it was not not your normal thing you've reached out to you know someone, someone getting all the success. But I wanted to tell him that you know, loved your work since then, you know, you did a great job on that film and and you know, keep keep up the great work.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:52

But but it's funny when you can kind of have these, you know, connections of people and uh I do I I'm I'm not a fan of uh social media, but I do like it when that kind of stuff happens.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:00

Yeah, exactly. And I think that's you know, just on a quick little tension. I I think it it can be feel like such a competitive game and stuff like that. And like from when I was at film school to from running work and posting stuff, and like now that Instagram for some photographers almost became like a business card, like it's like I ha I hate that stuff, and there's there is a lot of pressure on it, and if it does feel competitive, it does you know, so like I still post just stupid shit most of the time. I still like uh like in terms of stories and you know political stuff, especially given the the day and age and living in America and and whatnot, instead of just being like so career focused, and I think it's so easy to get you know feel like it's everyone's competing with each other, but I think as people kind of learn what they do and what they want to do as a cinematographer or as a filmmaker, it's like it's like if you can reach out to someone and they can lie, like you know, I message him and we laughed about that short film, you know, like and like I I would love to see him win, you know, like I'd love to see, you know, yeah. I mean, people that I've known back, you know, that have been nominated for Oscars and stuff like that. It's just like you want to see good people win, and that's like if you treat people well, like like Greg Frazier has been he's a he's a wonderful guy, you know, like he's such a one of the greats. But like I first met him years ago when I was working at Panavision and when I moved to the States had a couple of questions and we were emailing and then we hopped on a call for you know, we've chatted a bit here and there, and he's just he's always been such a good dude. I just think people you can be a good person in this industry and just don't feel like you've got to fight with everyone. I think that's the thing with social media, it's just like yeah, you know, I'm gonna show that I'm better on it. It's just it's all rubbish and it's hard to it's hard to not fall into the trap, but it's just like good good people are succeeding, and I think that's what's sort of important to know.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:45

That's a good message to leave on, so yeah. Let's totally leave it there. Well, thank you very much. Uh there's been some great films in there, and there's definitely some things I'm gonna rewatch. Um, I think seven is probably one that I'm definitely gonna re-watch soon, because I I think I I can't remember the last time I watched it. It wasn't that long ago, but I keep because I know there is a criterion of it, and I'm always now I'm getting to that point where it's like I want the nicest versions of all the films that I know I like. Yes, then it's whatever. So it's like, well, maybe I'll get the criterion of seven.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:15

Yeah, like how can I watch it? It's an experience it is as good as humanly possible.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:20

Exactly. You are talking to a man who uh owns a Laserdisc player. Oh classic. That must be amazing. Okay. I loved my laser. It I loved it. All right. I've got like original Japanese evil dead, oh my god. Like beautiful artwork on it, and then all of like Jim Cameron's films, like up until the 4K release of The Abyss, my laser disc of the abyss was the best version of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:45

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:47

And I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:48

I'm gonna I'm gonna randomly randomly throw one on like my birthday wish list and wait for my wife to be like, what the fuck are you asking for? It's it's the future.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:56

It's better than a VHS, but not as good as a DVD. Yeah, it's back, baby. Yeah. Um but thank you very much for coming on. Everyone go check out the Yeti when it comes out. Yeah, I appreciate it. And uh yeah, good to speak to you. Yeah, thanks, mate. See ya.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:13

See ya.