Anthony Ferraro - Writer - Director - YouTuber

Joining me this week, Anthony Ferraro

Anthony is a self-taught filmmaker, who has spent the past two decades fully immersed in independent cinema, directing feature films, shorts, and web series.

 His sci-fi film "Aeranger" earned millions of views, establishing him as an accomplished storyteller. Anthony's practical knowledge forms the foundation for everything he shares on his popular YouTube channel, Create Sci-Fi.

In his book "The Outsider Filmmaker: Start Your Film Without Funding," Anthony wholeheartedly shares practical, straightforward suggestions based on everyday logic and understanding, empowering aspiring filmmakers to embrace their creative aspirations and take the leap into the world of filmmaking.

Anthony's new film Starfisher:

Anthony's film Wakener:

My letterboxd: 

My film Reel Terror: 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to Your Life and Film. I'm your host, Ted Bennett, joining me this week. Anthony Ferrero. Anthony is a self-taught filmmaker who has spent the last two decades fully immersed in independent cinema, directing feature films, shorts, and web series. His sci-fi film Arranger earned millions of views, establishing him as an accomplished storyteller. Anthony's practical knowledge forms the foundation of everything he shares on his popular YouTube channel, Create Sci-Fi, which I've linked into the notes. Anthony has also published a book, The Outsider Filmmaker, Start Your Film Without Funding, where he shares practical, straightforward suggestions based on everyday logic and understanding, empowering aspiring filmmakers to embrace their creative aspirations. Anthony's new film, Starfisher, is also just been released on Dust, and I'd recommend everyone to go watch it. I've linked it below. Anthony has a lot of uh knowledge and time in the industry. So he's a lot of knowledge to share. We had a good talk. Uh we both love sci-fi, obviously. And uh we start the conversation talking about his YouTube channel.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

The YouTube channel thing has been very long, right? So it was never I'm going to create a YouTube channel because I want to have a YouTube channel. It was more like I need to be sharing my work to get people interested in my work because that's the way the ex it works now, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Everyone needs to know I'm busy.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

I've I don't know, for better or worse, I've always been of the mind, and again, I don't think this was ever a choice. I've just always been of the mind of like, oh, this is what we're doing now, okay, instead of like because I'll I'll hear, you know, I'm old enough where you know I'll I'll be in meetings or I'll be in like um conferences and stuff, and then you know, you always have people like, uh, why do I have to do social media and you know, I'm just an artist. And I'm like, well, from my perspective, when I started, there wasn't digital desktop filmmaking yet, right? So we did a lot of theater. And um, and you know, you said you're from London or you live in London. So, you know, there's a when I mean when I was there, there was a healthy, still very healthy culture with there. But it was like you did theater, and then if you wanted people to come and review your your play, your story, yeah, but nobody would come. And then to get an audience, you'd have to get your hands on like, oh, so-and-so has like a 2,000-person mailing list, and you would pay for that, and then you'd have to buy like $2,000 worth of stamps, and then you'd have to print postcards and then blindly mail it to people, and then they'd show up maybe, right? Yeah, and then it's like and then after five months of work, it's like a weekend, and maybe one of those nights there was a decent house, and then it's over, right? So that's just a long way to say, like, where from my perspective, it's like I have a I have a several now, but at the time it's like I have a film online that a million people have seen. Like Yeah, that's bonus. Like, what? You know what I mean? And I um, as part of my journey, I had this cool job for a while in San Francisco where I was working on Al Gore had a TV station for a minute when he had all that fame around the documentary, and it was called Current TV. And uh, you know, he was involved, he was around, he wasn't there every day, but like, you know, I'd see him in the bathroom, and that's cool. Like, and it was like that was uh, you know, one of those channels that you would never find it, you had to be told where it was. Yeah, and I would be privy to the you know, and that was like broadcast TV, whatever. There's only ever like a couple thousand people watching, you know what I mean? And it's like it's like Jesus. So anyway, that was a very long way to say. Um the YouTube channel to me was like, oh, this is a great um opportunity to just sort of have my own channel, you know.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

I know what you say, it's it's the same way I feel about um the fact that everyone can now shoot a film on their phone. Part of me is, you know, the the pretentious arty wanker side of me is like, no, it shouldn't be just that. And then the other part of me that's like, stop being an idiot, like don't be an arsehole to people. Like if that's if that's how they're gonna shoot it, that's how they're gonna shoot it, and their stories are gonna be sick. I do think it's the same with social media. I get very sort of like, oh I social media is a bloody poison. And you're like, Well, yeah, but it's also a free portfolio that you never have to like worry about, and you can put something up and you can just let the internet do its thing. Yeah, and if it's it and it'll just take off if it takes off. And you're like, Oh, okay, yeah, that that sounds that sounds sick, actually. I don't know why I'd complain about that.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Right, because it's like back to the beginning of our conversation, it's like you know, I have to work, I mean, it's within my skill set editing and things like that, but to keep the lights on and to keep a rent, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Whereas if this was twenty years ago, I would still be doing that, but not have a voice and not have somebody like you interested in talking to me, right? Because even if I was doing the work 20 or 30 years ago, who's seeing it? Who's aware of it? You know?

SPEAKER_02 5:37

Oh, it's it's the same as like the only people that knew of like Greg Nicotero were people that worked in the industry. Now everyone knows who Greg Nicotera. Well, I say everyone who knows. Yeah, I don't know. That is Greg Nicotero's a great like prop maker for horror.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Oh, okay. Got it, got it, got it. Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

But you know what I mean? It's that same like Savini and Rick Baker. It's all these people that before you only knew if you knew. You only knew if you like stayed and watched the credits and then you were like, Well, have they done a book? Have they released anything? Yes. Whereas now, like you get someone's name and you're like, have they got a social? I'll just I'll follow them and see what they learn. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

So like I'm uh, you know, I I like it. And it and it's funny too, it's like it's a poison, but now it's a poison like food or alcohol, you know, and like you're consuming it, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

I realize that like being American with all the the the Trump madness, in the beginning of his second term, and I don't want to get political, but this feeds into what we're saying, is in the beginning of his second term, uh, you know, I was like, oh, I can't. And then I kind of had the realization is like, oh, my algorithm, if I don't engage with all this stuff, it goes away. Yes. And it was like, you know, it took a couple weeks, but then I wouldn't wake up every morning and be like, oh, Jesus, what's he doing? It's just kind of like, okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

Um I will say a weird a weird thing that I notice is that my I have like a personal YouTube and a kind of like a not a work YouTube, but I like I only post separate the algorithms, I guess. Separate the algorithms. But because I don't watch anything on the work one, I only post stuff on the work one. Right. Um the base standard of things that they send me are all very much like uh Musk, Trump, Joe Rogan, and then okay. Even in the UK, it's really bad for it. And then they'll put in a couple of the English guys as well. And I'm like, why the fuck am I getting all this? Like, I don't give a shit about this.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

And it's like maybe you watch two of them.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Oh, I accidentally watched a clip once and it's like, ah, that's it forever. Whereas my, you know, my personal one, it's all just like prop building and uh motorbike stuff. It's like it's just really basic stuff. It's like whenever anyone gives a hot take, I'm always like, Oh, why are you giving a hot take?

SPEAKER_01 8:06

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Somebody asked me about that the other day about like what I watch, and I was like, I had to think about, you know, I would have been like, oh, this TV show. But it's like I watch YouTube channels now, like and it's like um I I kind of compare not I I didn't come up with this, I've heard it. Like you it's compared to the phenomenon, what happened when they started doing like the cooking shows and stuff, right? Where it's like I watch a guy every week that restores like he'll see a car in the field that's never been start 20 is and I've I watch that every you know, I've been watching that for years. I'll watch every I watch a blacksmith and um and anybody who's renovating a house, you know, like the oh, we bought a Victorian townhouse for a hundred dollars. Yeah, they spent three years renovating, I'll watch that whole thing. Well, there was a the cooking show is like, but I'll never do that. And then then so to bring it back around, so that really informed my channel too, because I was like, oh my, you know, when I first started my channel, it was like literally like a cookie show. Like, oh, to make this you need seven of these, eight photos, here's the thing, okay. And then I realized, oh, that's most people aren't want gonna follow it like that. And it's like now I just sort of it's like that um you know that male thing where we're all standing around watching another guy fix his car. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

It's like unmoved.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

I kind of missed out on this, but I know too with like younger people like watching Twitch like watching somebody else play video games, it's like, oh, okay, right, right.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

This is Which is so weird that like you're right, that's the exact same thing. But I'm the sort of later end of the millennial scale, as it were. So to me, like whenever I'm like, why on earth would you watch someone playing video games?

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Right, right, right, right. Well, if you grow up with it, it's like us watching sport, you know.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

Exactly. Or like you said, I'll happily watch someone like renovating an engine for like an old muscle car. And I'm like, oh yeah, go on then. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Is that how you're gonna do it? Okay. I wouldn't have done it like that. I wouldn't have done it at all.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

But sorry, yeah, and then there's that one British guy who does the like the crashed Lamborghinis.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

Oh, yes. Um Chris Slicks.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

No, Matt Matt Smith, I think, is the one. But that's the other thing. There's so many. So this is an interesting thing too that I realized was back to filmmaking was so there's a YouTube channel called Dust, which just curates sci-fi, and then they have the horror one, which is Alter. And early on I got involved with them, and I have two films on there, and I have a third film coming out at the end of March that'll be on there. And the thing that was really interesting about that was my first film on there has like it's been a long time, so it's like a a million, a million and a half views on there, and that's like a wow, like great, like perfect results, you know. But what's fascinating about the YouTube thing is I have because it's non-exclusive agreement, I have that same film on my personal channel, and it has like almost 500,000 views. So there's no it's deeper than people realize, is my point. You know what I mean? Where it's like, oh, I don't, you know, oh well, I can't show at this festival because it's already on. It's like, what are you talking about? Like it's so like it's so deep out there. Like I have, you know what I mean? It's like a million views and a half a million views, and none of those people are aware of the other thing.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

Oh, or or care that it's on the other. It's crazy. Yeah, it means nothing to them. They're like, oh, sick, it's on multiple places. Great. That must be in its goal.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Yeah, and with screenings too, it's the same thing where now, because of the current way we consume uh media, the the film festival is a different experience. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

So it's like it's not like, well, why would I go see this at a festival because I could just see it online? Like that's not anybody who thinks that's what people are thinking is not in touch with uh what's really going on.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

I I feel like the film festival route, because I had a film, a horror film in some festivals recently. Yeah, that's the one. And oh thank you. Um I it for me as a filmmaker, that was like, oh, I want to take it to festivals. But the second it was done with its festival around, I was like, get it on YouTube now, because the people that will make anything have happen of this are the viewers. If if millions of people like it, then it will go somewhere. And it might take a couple of years for people to come around to it. But like festivals aren't they're not the place that I think they used to be for film.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

No. Well, I think it's you gotta find your festivals. Like my favorite festival is a festival in Utah uh called FilmQuest. And uh it's a great festival. And I've like that one I go to every year, you know. Or it motivates me to make a film just so that I can go.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

But you gotta so what I've kind of come to for me personally is you have to find the festivals that are creating community.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

And there's not there's so many festivals out there now where it's like, yeah, you could you spend all this money. I mean, I'm not gonna name names, but there's plenty of them out there where you spend all this money, then you get in, and you're like, oh geez, we got into this great, and then you fly there and get a hotel or whatever, and it's like I'm in a pizza parlor, and you know, there's like an AP, you know, you go for social media in front of the little sheet that says like, oh, film festival, red carpet thing, you know, that's just you know, like a thing stapled on the wall, and that's so maybe that's like a good thing to share. Like you you get better at spotting those, you know what I mean? Like I can tell, like, oh, that looks like one of those. And um so what I do now is because I live in the states, I'll I'll apply to festivals where it's someplace that I want to visit, right? So then it's like that's what I was I just said I was at Portland, and that's why, because I was like, oh, I've never been to Portland. I know a couple people who live there, and I just applied to like five festivals in Portland, and then it was like, okay, because I knew I was gonna visit this town anyway, I'll kill like two birds with one stone.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

I think it's the smartest way to do it. Yeah, I think it's the only way that you you're gonna start like, I always want to see these places. Well, I'll pretend it's a work reason and I'll definitely get it.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

I've been chasing in in your part of the world, I've been chasing um Raindance for a while. Is that one any good?

SPEAKER_02 15:26

Yeah. Raindance is pretty good. Um I i because it's uh British independent film festival qualifiers, it's quite uh a prolific one.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

I um I mentioned the Al Gore thing, so I've done quite a bit of uh do quite a bit of documentary work for May. And I've been like I always joke about it, like for Sundance, I'm always like, Well, this film is not gonna get in, but it's like here's my tribute to the gods, like, because you have this mental thing of like, well, but I'm good enough, you know what I mean? Yes, but then you have the other mental thing of like, well, be realistic, it's not gonna get in.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

But I'm you know, so but I mean it might, it might, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:19

So and then it just it should be priced according, you know what I mean? Like if it's 20 bucks or you know, 20 euros, okay, sure. Yeah, but it's like eighty dollars, a hundred dollars. So but my point was that I was working on this documentary, and the person producing it had a relationship with Sundance, and we were working and because I'm aware of Sundance, we're working on it, and I'm like, yeah, but the deadline was like weeks ago, you know. They're like, no, don't don't worry about you know what I mean, and it was just like that documentary was in Sundance, you know, and I was like, oh, huh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:01

Yeah, well done, but also though well, I was watching something recently, I can't remember what it was, and the director had said in a commentary, like, oh, I made this really quickly because I wanted it to get into Sundance.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

And you're like, and you're like, Well, what do you mean by that? Like it was gonna automatically get in, was it, if you got it in on time, and it was like, uh well, come on. And then you're like, well, that is how it goes. But your um Mandalorian films that's done big numbers. Have you had uh any issues from Disney on it?

SPEAKER_01 17:40

No, because that's if you go down the rabbit hole of that, that's become like uh I think they realized a long time ago that it's um it's very good for them. You know what I mean? Yes, and so it's like so there's millions upon millions of people like at this point, it doesn't matter. The the quality of a uh a Disney Star Wars film or series is kind of like the the quality of the storytelling is kind of like the afterthought, right? It's like it's like well, you you know, kind of like we were just talking about Sundance, it's like well, I'm gonna watch whatever it is, you know what I mean? And then if you get lucky, it's like an Andor or a Mandalorian series, that's great. You know sometimes it's it's not so great, but because there they there is the recognition of the legions of fans and all that, and it's just you know, as far as legal, you just you're you're not able to monetize the thing. So you'll always see if you see a fan film, there's always the disclaimers like you know, we don't own this, there's no, you know, on my YouTube channel the there's the monetization is turned off, like I'm not able to monetize it.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

Even for that, okay. Yeah, yeah. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

And that but that's why it's not uh illegal, you know what I mean? Like if you're making millions of dollars, then they're like, hey, no.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

Where's our cut? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Well, what's fascinating about that, just talking about numbers and exposure. So my Mandalorian, and then that that's not on Dust because Dust wouldn't have it on there because they can't monetize it, right? So Yeah. So it has like, I think now like 800,000, 900,000 views, and it's like that's great. But with the advent of YouTube Shorts, you know, the film had been out for four or five years, I think. I just cut it up into YouTube Shorts and just put that up on my channel, and one of them now has like over five million views. Jeez. It's insane, you know what I mean? And it's like, well, it's like it's it's a minute long, it's out of context.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

And that's just the way people view things now, you know what I mean? Like, it's just kind of yeah. But the what I have noticed of a long, long, long time of trying to get people interested in my work, it's kind of bittersweet because now I can get people to take me seriously just by saying things like those numbers, right?

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

And it doesn't like okay, you know, I didn't imagine it happening that way. I, you know, you imagine it like it was like my work was just so awful-provoking and well done.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

I got in on the late night screening at Sundance, you know, the one just before Blair Witch went on and everyone loved it, and everyone was trying to buy it. No, no, lost your numbers.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

And and it like the social media, like I recently worked on this low budget um horror film. And the thing that was fascinating to me was good or bad, whatever, you know. Uh it was uh I was scrolling through social media, and then there was uh a post that was there was an article in variety on it, you know. I was like, oh wow, good for them. Like they're doing good, great, good for them. And then like a couple weeks later, I saw it again, and I was just sitting around, and I and I was like, oh, let me look. And I read the article.

SPEAKER_02 21:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

An article panned it. Like the article was like not a uh a glowing review, but it was like, oh, but it didn't matter because 99% of the people were like my first, and I only went back to it because I was involved in it and I was curious. But it was like, oh, I just took that as oh wow, oh it's in variety, it must be a good nugget in my head. I was like, oh, that film I worked on, you know, the guy I know and whatever. I'm like, oh, he's doing great, good for him. You know what I mean? And it was just like so it's yeah, it's just I don't know, but it's it's not gonna change, you know what I mean? So that's like so I don't spend energy being like, what is this is wrong? I hate this, or what you know, it's just kind of like okay, this is what you know what I mean. Like people, given the way that I look and my age, it kind of benefits me because when people do go to my YouTube channel, and it's not amazing, you know, I have I just cracked a hundred thousand subscribers, which is great, but it's not like a million, it's not like my living, but the people don't expect me to have uh a YouTube channel that's doing okay, you know what I mean? So that kind of benefits me in a weird way. It's one of those like, what? And then it's like, oh, like I was working with this young producer who's really talented and really, and I'd like, oh, I'd like to work with this guy because we're both working on something. And uh he was you know, I'm like probably 25 years older than this guy, you know. It was just like, uh but then after lunch, I know he checked out my social media, like my work online, right? And then he was he was interested in me all of a sudden, you know, and it's like so. I don't I I I guess what I'm what I'm trying to convey is like I'm not railing against that. I'm like, okay, well, I didn't have that opportunity 20 years ago that would, you know, that person would have just been like, well, I don't have time to learn about this guy up.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

There's you know, to me, I would love to have a film shown in a cinema. That's probably never gonna happen. Like, I I can probably get it on a on a platform, probably, but not a cinema. And it's like, that's just something I'm gonna have to d learn to live with, but that's not because of whatever I make isn't gonna be good enough. It's just because cinemas aren't really a thing anymore.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

It's not a thing anymore. No.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

And it's like, oh, well, that's that's really sad, but okay, you've got to adapt with the times. And I think with you know, YouTube and things, it's the same deal. It's the that's where you make or break popularity. Right. You know, like Mark Pellier, is it Mark Pellier, the guy who just did Iron Lung?

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:05

He you know what I mean, he's got something like I don't know, 30 million subscribers on YouTube.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Right.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

And it's like, right, well, if all of them watch his short films, then it's definitely gonna have 30 million followers, like 30 million at least viewers. Yeah. So if you then take that to a studio, they're gonna be like, oh, you've got 30 million, right? Well, if they all pay a dollar, and I give you 10 million, then you'll definitely make money. And it's like, yes. And you have to just think of it like, right, okay, so the entire community now, not community, the higher entire uh industry is just one big Kickstarter, but you just have to come up with the audience first.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:45

Anyway, so uh let's talk about uh Awakener, your new uh your because that's just going on to dust soon.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

No, that's on dust right now.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

That's already on dust. My new one.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

All but all my films, uh Wakener and Starfisher, even the Mandalorian one to an extent, and then I did the first one I did, Erringer, they're all like you hear this thing, like short films being like proof of concept for features. So all my short films are proofs of concept for my sci-fi feature that I'm working on, but it's not the story, it's the production, right? Yes. So the way that I approach the costumes, the sets, the filming on a low budget is all proof of concept for oh, I can make a pretty immersive um visually quality, visual quality sci-fi on a budget, right?

SPEAKER_02 25:43

I will 100% agree to that because I watched some of your videos and um the like the behind the scenes ones and things. And I I was looking at them all and I was just like, oh fuck, the the amount you've done with what you've got there. Yeah, it is it's not far.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

You've only made it like all the movements, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

They're so good. Um but yeah, I mean that's all the stuff I love. I love all this idea of what can we make in the room we have with the box of bits that I've been holding on to for 30 years, you know.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

Right, right. And that's why I think it's important. Like I I write and direct and edit, right? And that's I think an important component that allows me to keep the budgets down, but also to any one of those things could get out of control or or not be able to meet like the expectations. So because I have like a hand in all those things, I can always keep it in sort of like, oh, it looks good, sounds good, plays well, it's tight, as opposed to where if all those things were out of my hands, I think it would start you would start to see the cracks of where there's no money. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

And that totally makes sense. And I d because I do a similar thing with horror. I'm today I was making trees out of spray foam and carpet tubes and stuff. And I was I made some uh tombstones out of insulation board from a building site that I scavenged. And it's it's doing all of those things, painting them up, weathering them all nice, and you know what you can do, and I know that there's certain things I can't do, and if I can outsource that, that's where I'll spend the money. But if I couldn't do any of it, like and I had to outsource the whole thing, there's stuff which is just like, well, that's really basic stuff which we all should know how to do as filmmakers. As a filmmaker, you should know how to do everything not badly by yourself, but like if you can't do everything in some form, then go learn how it's done, and then you'll know why someone is better or worse than the other person, and then you're actually a bit more like okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:03

And then that also what I found in my experience is that gives me a better chance to get somebody talented that I can't afford. But if you if you present to them like I know exactly what I want, I know what it takes for you to do that, and like lots of times I'll get discounts from creators because I do understand their workflow, I'll be able to prep it for them, right? As opposed to like, you know, like an editor. It's like as an editor, if I'm doing something for no money, don't just hand me a hard drive with raw media on it. Right. Organize it and give me paper selects, take that time. Then I'm like, okay, we're in this. So I kind of take the same approach where you know, if I know, like I dabble in visual effects, and I often in my films I do the invisible stuff, like painting out something that's not supposed to be there, or screen replacement, or stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

But because I understand that process, I'm able to give visual effects artists because it's like I can do the work, but I don't have the the artistry that they have in the final product. So I can give them that like assistant version, and then they can come in and do whatever it is that separates them from the rest, you know.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

When it comes to the horror sort of prop making stuff for me, it's it's a similar thing where it's like I'm coming to you because my workshop isn't big enough and I can't do it. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

Or the time or the money. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

And I've got the time, I haven't got the money. But I've done all the research, I've made smaller versions of it, I've I've worked with certain things of silicon to try and make it. And you're like, I've done all of those references, so it's like, so when I'm asking you to do this one specific like gag, I'm asking from a place of like, I know that this should actually be quite a fun job as well. Like if it's a shitty job, it's like I know this is gonna be a horrible job, so you know whatever. But it's like this could be a good one, and I think it's I don't know, I think much like with you, it just comes from a place of you want to create that world, you want to create that crop, you want to create that thing, it's and it's in the details, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Like, yeah, um and the props and costumes for me, for whatever reason, is that's my way into it because I don't draw, right? So it's not like I'm sketching, doing storyboards and stuff, but it's like you know, I've had a part two of that Mandalorian Star Wars film kicking around in my head for a long time. Yeah, and um it just comes down to money, you know, and it's you know, people are like, where's part two? It's like, okay, well, if I can raise the money, I'll make it. Yeah, but it's uh the other day I was like, Oh, I have I gotta make a video for my channel. And I was like, uh I know in my part two there's a stormtrooper, you know. I was like, well, I have this stormtrooper helmet. Let me just start on that. And I was like, oh, I gotta make the whole thing now. Yeah and that's what's kind of you know, I mean, so the script I've written, I know what the story is, but I've known that for like three years. But now that I started making the stormtrooper armor, I'm like, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

Well, I'm guessing I'm gonna make loads of stormtrooper shit now because I've got a stormtrooper. Oh really? Yeah. Well, no, no, no, but is that like I was doing it's the same with my um I made the I was making these trees, and one of the first things my partner said, she was like, and where are they gonna go? And I was like, in the workshop, until I need them. She's like, but we just emptied the workshop, and I was like, Yeah, of really bad props. Yeah. These are gonna be better ones.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

Um Perfect. Uh what was the first film you saw at the uh theater?

SPEAKER_01 32:16

That was the the the Disney animation of Robin Hood, where Robin Hood was, I think, a fox.

SPEAKER_02 32:24

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, that's uh that was one that my buddy watched a lot when we were younger.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

And uh yeah, but the snapshots in my brain are not of the film. They are of like so that was long enough ago where it definitely wasn't like a a bunker theater. It was like I just remember like, you know, like a proper thing, like velvet scenes and weird carpet and the walls being like, you know.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

So I do I do my childhood memories are like, yeah, there's a film going on there, but I just remember running around and being fascinated by the what is this power scene? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And who took you? I think my mother and my grandmother.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

Yeah. But it's worth noting that even though that was my first film, my first experience was I'll never forget. Like, I saw Star Wars and New Hope in the movie theater.

SPEAKER_02 33:29

Oh, nice. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:31

So I remember playing on the street with the neighborhood kids, and the then the one kid's father, I don't know what he said to all our parents, but he scooped up all the kids and he took us to the movies. Like my parents were not movie people, you know what I mean? Okay, it wasn't like music playing in my house, and like that was not my family. And then so this neighbor scoops us up and he takes us to you know, all the neighborhood kids, and it was fucking Star Wars, and it was just like man, melted my little brain, you know? Yeah, and and it was sort of like look when I think back on that, I'm like, it was such like a shift. Like I was thinking about that neighbor, and I was like, Oh, that guy was like, I've been hearing about this Star Wars. I want to see so he's like in his mind, he was like, But I I can't just go. I'll bring the kids.

SPEAKER_02 34:23

I can't go on my own, I've got to take the kids with me.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I like thinking back, it was like, oh, this guy was desperate to see this movie. And at that time, it would have been like, Why are you going to see that? You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

And he just he just rounded up just a ruck of the kids. Like he doesn't care.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

It's like I don't care about the architecture for them, like we're just and it was like, I have a very vivid memory of the you know, the opening when the ship comes over your head. Like that was like, What what the hell?

SPEAKER_02 34:58

You know I think the scale is the first time any like because obviously Space 1999, all these things, like there's been plenty of Star Trek.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

What about Star Trek and Space 99? And then the comedy stuff, you know, but like Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

But I feel like Star Wars was the first time it got that scale. Like there's this ship that's flying over, you're like, oh god, that's huge, and then an even bigger ship comes over, and you're like, what the hell?

unknown 35:27

What the fuck?

SPEAKER_02 35:27

Yeah. And it's and it's great. And then obviously lightsaber kind of stuff. Lightsabers are great. But I always loved the how I like how they built the Death Star trenches by just like it's just loads of airfix kits, and you're just like, Yeah, oh great. Like now I know I can make these things if I just go and find a load of old kits. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

But and I I've talked about that a few times on my channel where I'm like, I'm like going to the dollar store and buying like some knockoff lightsaber, and then I'll take it to my shop and like upgrade it and make it look film ready. But then I'll I'll kind of rail about, you know. When I was a kid, we had to use the the paper towel roll and tinfoil, you know. Now you can use armor for five dollars, you know.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

Yeah, that oh, kids don't know how easy they got it. We had uh when we were a kid, it was a broom handle and electrical.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

Right, right, right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_02 36:26

And that was that was beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 36:28

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

But then what was it? I had um a load of old Nerf guns just knocking around in my workshop, and I thought like, oh, I need to do something with these things. Eventually, I'm gonna need to make something. It was that same thing that you do on your channel where it's like, I'm gonna have to turn this into something because Right, right, because look at it.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

Like, here's Look at it.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

It's it's too good to not turn into a space gun.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

Yeah, because that's where like I found like the one of the things that resonates a lot on my channel is the dollar store stuff. Right.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

And it's like because it isn't interesting, it's like, and I found the same thing in Timu, where it's like all cheap knockoff stuff that doesn't work as advertised, but it's like they tend to be like more oddly shaped than whatever the classic version of the thing that I'm painting, and then you get like two of those things and you glue them together, paint them silver, and it's like, oh, this is uh a health scanner, or this is uh you know But that that I love that that's how the way certain people's brains work because I'll go I was going around the dollar store the other day trying to think like, right, I want to I want to make these trees and a grave.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

Well when you're looking for something specific, that's where it fights you.

SPEAKER_02 37:45

Yeah, yeah, that's when you you're in trouble. Yeah, but then like I you take yourself down like the kid's toy aisle and you're like, okay, those guns, they look good. They look good. They hang on, that could be a real good sort of like multi-missile blaster thing, and you're like, okay, yeah. And then the amount of times I've come back with sort of like um I'd go to the uh like Home Depot to the plumbing section, yeah, right, and all the cut all the coupling bits, and just like my partner Kirsten would be like, What you got there? And I'm like, ah, look at that. She's like, What am I looking at? And I'm like, doesn't it look like Obi-Wan's at the top of Obi Wan's thing? And she's like, I guess. And I was like, I guess, get out of here. How can you not see that?

SPEAKER_01 38:30

Yeah, in my film Wakener, there's one uh location scene where it's like the high class people and it's all white, and they're on a computer in their wall. That entire set and the main prop pieces are 100%, it's all Home Depot.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

Uh huh.

SPEAKER_01 38:47

It's like Home Depot insulation panels, some kind of grading material, and then um the the computer screen is plumbing, and then like a family plus size detergent bottle that I also got at Home Depot because I was like, oh well. It's it's all about the shapes, it's about all about the silhouette. And then the other thing too is I try to make the distinction between cosplay, display, and then a set piece, right? Because it's yes for film, like, and I always try to, I don't think people are listening to me, but I try to tell them, like, look, I'm making these for film, and the difference is when you're looking at this under just regular light or video focused on it, it looks terrible. But it's meant to be moving around and far away.

SPEAKER_02 39:42

Oh, yeah, like you can just wave a camera case and that's a phone, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 39:47

Yeah, or like cosplay, you would want to be more meticulous, more thin, you'd want it to be built better, or display. Don't have to worry about anything, but just what it looks like there. So the film props are like as long as it stays together for eight hours, yeah. We're good, you know.

SPEAKER_02 40:05

And it's like it's like every gun is made of rubber, yeah, and no one knows that, you know. Because on the close-up, the hero prop is the only one that matters. Yeah, but it's good. Uh, a couple of times you've referenced your age, and I know that that's gonna uh affect this next question, but what did you watch over and over again as a kid?

SPEAKER_01 40:24

Um The Outlaw Josie Wales, Excalibur, Borman's Excalibur. Nice, and then Richard Lester's uh the three and four Musketeers.

SPEAKER_02 40:36

Ooh, nice. That the Richard Burton No, the uh Oliver Reed. Oliver Reed, yeah. Nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

But yeah, it's like it's Oliver Reed, uh Michael York, Faye Dunaway, Christopher Lee. Christopher Lee. Like uh and what's his name, like the Blackthorn actor guy. What's his name on? Oh, uh Richard Chamberlain. Richard Chamberlain. Yeah. So it's just insane. But I I I'm remembering that question now, but referencing my age, like when I was teen, pre-teen, there wasn't VCRs, right? So it wasn't like, oh, like I've watched Dumbo a hundred times or you know some, you know, that just wasn't a thing.

SPEAKER_02 41:21

But it's just whatever you could catch on TV.

SPEAKER_01 41:24

But then when I was a teenager, then there was VHS, and it was those. So my tastes were like those kind of movies. And for some reason, I don't know why. But the Outlaw Josie Wales, I don't know. That's the one. What's the what's the saying that people say? That movie lives rent-free in my brain.

SPEAKER_02 41:42

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

Uh no idea why. No idea.

SPEAKER_02 41:47

I mean, last year I watched maybe 40 Clint Eastwood films. Oh wow. Like I think I had like I I don't think I had seen other than like oh, like all of them, mate. We're talking both the monkey ones. The only one I didn't watch was uh I didn't see Bird.

SPEAKER_01 42:10

Okay, that's the jazz one, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Apparently he's a jazz piano.

SPEAKER_02 42:15

Yeah, apparently he's decent. And I'm sure you know what? I believe Clint can do anything. But um, yeah, there was a couple I didn't watch, but I also watched like old episodes of Rawhide and everything.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

Like wow, wow, you went deep.

SPEAKER_02 42:27

I went all in. Because I thought I'd never watched any Clint, and I thought I'd seen Mystic River, I'd seen Gran Torino, I'd seen $54 and that stuff or yeah, that kind of stuff. Good the bad. But then I was like, oh, but go on, give me give me all the good, give me all the bad, give me everything. And it's just like, oh, this man is he's doing some great fun.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

Yeah, and I for me personally, like he got the recognition for unforgiven, but I'm like, no, he was doing that in Outlaw Josie Wales, like that. Yeah because he directed Outlaw Josie Wales, too. So that was and that's that was before I think he wasn't uh uh a go-to established director, just kind of like if he wants a director, he's big enough.

SPEAKER_02 43:09

We'll let it uh let him, yeah. I guess he's done it enough.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

You know, he's like what yeah, I don't know what it is about and and what I like about Outlaw Josie Wales, which is something that I clock now, that's something you don't see too often, is that like it's feels like two movies. It's like there's it's a movie until he starts to change his ways and he groups up with the old woman and her daughter, and they rescue them, and then they go to the homestead. And they he befriends the Indians and stuff. Like those feel like two separate movies to me. Kind of like um, you know, like the Beatles, where what is that song? The is it Eleanor Ring? One of those songs where it's like it's like Oh, yeah. You know, and it's like oh That's something I would never naturally do. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 44:03

And I was like, oh, this is it's on um oh god, it's on like the Abbey Roads. The queen and the end or something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

Drag the cone. Yeah. And the girls. Yeah. But I mean, the point being like, it's two things, but it works together as one. That was always interesting, me and Josie Wells, because it's like my internal story listening to consuming clock says that this is the end, you know. And then it's like, oh no, it's it's a whole new story, whole new thing coming up. Yeah, so this is great. And then the Richard Lester stuff just I guess I didn't know at the time that I love those Musketeers movies, but I realized later and looking into him that like he did all those Beatle movies like Help and all that. And what I loved about the Richard Lester movies, which is um a big thing in all the Star Wars franchise, is those humorous, light interstitial moments that have nothing to do with the story. And like that's what I really got from the Three and Four Musketeers, you know, where it's like Fair enough. We're here, we're going to this scene in the middle, but as a little transition palette cleanse, here's like a beautiful pastoral shot of the town. But then right at the last woman, like the woman dumps the piss pot out the window and it goes out somebody's head. I was like, oh, what the fuck? Like just and I was like, oh, like that really stuck in my head as like, oh, those like interstitial, you know, it's the same thing. It's always like some weird creature eating a bug or something, you know.

SPEAKER_02 45:45

And it's like it's the same in help when George Harrison winds up the chattering, well, George Harrison's gardener winds up the chattering teeth to cut the grass in his bedroom.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

Oh, right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_02 45:55

And I remember just like as a kid watching that and being like, this is X.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

I don't know what's going on, but this is X. So that's that's what I got from those films. It was like, so now like if I have a interstitial moment, I'm always like, oh, like this had a little something.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

Nice. I uh yeah, that's good stuff. That is good stuff. Um what was the first R-rated film you saw, and how old were you?

SPEAKER_01 46:21

Uh again, I don't know how old I was, but I just remember I think I mentioned this, like me and my younger brother. It was the early days of HBO, so you'd get a guide telling you what was on HBO, and we would just look, look, look, look, look for brief nudity. Which typically was like a woman taking a shower and then turning in for like one split second.

SPEAKER_02 46:44

Hey, that was all you needed in that age.

SPEAKER_01 46:47

Yeah, yeah. And I feel like it was that um Toxic Avenger.

SPEAKER_02 46:52

Oh, nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:53

And Adrian Barbabow, which uh funnily, uh a year ago, I have a horror script, and we were we uh we attached her to like she signed out, so I had a I had a phone call with Adrian Barbabow, and that was how did that go for you? It was just surreal, you know what I mean? Yeah, it was like oh, all right, okay. Like, um, but it's funny because if somebody, you know, people know who she is, like, because of stuff like that, you know what I mean? Oh, right, oh yeah, okay, you know who she is. But I I I want to say it was the toxic or the other one, uh it's either that or I was with a and I think this is a common thing, or it used to be a common thing is with with young kids. I was with my friends at a movie theater and we were watching some teen movie, and we walked out, and then next door was uh the cartoon uh heavy metal. Oh yeah, and we walked into that and we sat through that, and then at the end of it, we're like, well, so we went back through to the beginning of it to just watch it.

SPEAKER_02 48:03

Oh nice.

SPEAKER_01 48:04

So it was either it was either heavy metal or toxic Avenger.

SPEAKER_02 48:09

I mean, they're good choices, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

But I don't know, like in my in my early days, I was always more of like um attracted to just straight drama.

SPEAKER_02 48:20

Oh really?

SPEAKER_01 48:20

Yeah, I wasn't a big genre person initially. That kind of developed as I became interested in prop and costume making. Then I was like, oh well, you know, two brothers trying to save the farm do not have costumes.

SPEAKER_02 48:39

They ain't got the cool stuff. It's the same with horror for me. I used to be a right scardy cat. I couldn't watch horror films.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

I'm a bit of a scaredy cat with horror films for sure.

SPEAKER_02 48:47

You know, they get me, they get me good. But as soon as I started being like, oh, but how did they make that prop? How do they make the the thing? You know, and then you see like all the behind the scenes, you're like, oh, that's really good. And now when I watch horror films, like if they're gory specifically, I'm just like that means nothing to me because how are you doing this? How are you gonna make that? Oh, that's how you want it. But if you do anything that's like good and spooky and psychological, and maybe you don't see anything, I'm then I'm just like, oh, you've got me.

SPEAKER_01 49:16

Right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_02 49:19

But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:20

Have you ever been out? Have you ever been out here?

SPEAKER_02 49:22

Have you ever been out to LA or the whole Los Angeles? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I was there 2024 for uh Scream Fest.

SPEAKER_01 49:31

Okay, well, because it's an interesting thing that I don't know what it is, but when I go to film festivals and when I meet people, I would say 90% of people that are into horror work on horror and make horror and do spects of props and costumes live in Burbank.

SPEAKER_00 49:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:52

I mean, probably not so much anymore, but back in the day that was like the Silicon Valley for modest.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

I mean, it makes makes sense to be that close to the studio, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 50:02

Or like a friend of mine uh who works with me, Clint Carney. He he's in that space and he does paintings in LA. He'll do like, oh, we're doing this market, you know, there's these markets all the time, just because where we live, and it's like horror, you know, props, costumes, books, ephemera. Nice, and it's just like just a sub like a farmer's market almost, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 50:27

Yeah, that's bumps.

SPEAKER_01 50:28

Like when I lived in London, what was it? It was like Port Portobello Market.

SPEAKER_02 50:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:34

But imagine if that was just all guys.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

That'd be beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

You know, Portobello was like, oh, let me get this old vintage drill, you know. That's the rubber hand from whatever. You know, it's like I mean, that's pretty dope.

SPEAKER_02 50:52

I I'd love that.

SPEAKER_01 50:53

I should go I monster is a big thing they have.

SPEAKER_02 50:57

That's uh when uh when you're the the fearless leader when he passes uh on and there's a new one in charge, I might pop over again.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

Yeah, and if he doesn't I'll be over there.

SPEAKER_02 51:10

Yeah, we'll we'll take you happily. Um so uh what was the first film that you watched that you considered grown up?

SPEAKER_01 51:20

Um God. The first film that I considered grown up. Name of the Rose, maybe?

SPEAKER_02 51:26

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:28

I mean that is I don't remember, but that's what pops into my head when you say that.

SPEAKER_02 51:33

But that that I would agree with that, you know. Like, I don't know if that was the first, but I would definitely see that thing. That's a grown-up film.

SPEAKER_01 51:39

And then uh the horror film, not so much Exorcist, but the uh the Damien um what are those films? Oh, oh, oh man. That was like I mean, when you go back and watch them, it's not the same as you remembered it. But that was the first one where I remembered like, oh, this is a horror movie, but it's feels like a drama. Like, what's going on here? It was like it really affected me more than uh jump scare.

SPEAKER_00 52:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:10

That omen is that's that's kind of and it's interesting. I never thought about that until we're talking about it. But yeah, I was more like an omen rather than like Crypt Keeper or something, you know what I mean? Like I got you that kind of horror. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:26

It's it falls into that anything that's religious or folk. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:34

And it's I'll tell you, it's those kind of films that still get me because I can't I like I can see gore, sure. I can see a monster and I can understand what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 52:43

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_02 52:44

But like religious stuff, it's like I'm not a religious guy, so it's another world. Yeah, what if that is what they think? I don't know. What film holds a special place in your heart?

SPEAKER_01 52:57

Dow Law Josie Wales.

SPEAKER_02 52:59

Fair, fair.

SPEAKER_01 53:00

And Excalibur is pretty close to like Excalibur is probably the closest to like my childhood idealism of like what would be fun and cool, and what is filmmaking, and what is my you know what I mean? Like just yeah, and it was like the uh and then you find out later we were talking about YouTube, you know what I mean? Like, like Terry English, the armorer for that, you know what I mean? Like I love that movie. That armor was like what I dreamed about as a kid. Oh, but I never would have known the depths and the artistry of Terry English if it wasn't for YouTube, you know what I mean? Yeah, like Adam Savage tested. You ever watch that?

SPEAKER_02 53:45

Yeah, oh so much so much.

SPEAKER_01 53:47

Deep dive with Terry English, where he goes and spends a couple of weeks with him and they recreate armor from um Excalibur. You know, that's just like oh wow. And what I and also Excalibur is important to me too, because that was like fantasy night, it was pretty like something like you would get out of contemporary or not even contemporary anymore, but the the experience you would get out of Game of Thrones. Yes, that was the only thing like that at that time. Because otherwise you were seeing knights and armor and stuff, it was more fantastical. Or if it was drama, it was like Shakespearean and it wasn't relatable, right? So it's like it was like um, yeah, that movie was like I I feel like that was a high watermark for people who were into that for a very, very long time.

SPEAKER_02 54:38

Um yes, I would agree. I think if you are into and I'm gonna use like sword and sorcery, yeah, that's it's not, you know, but it's it's in that I think But the drama is real and it's but the drama's there, and like I think if you're old enough to remember Excalibur growing up, then I think Excalibur saw you through until Great Game of Thrones.

SPEAKER_00 54:59

Sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:00

And then everyone has great Game of Thrones now, and it's like, yeah, if you're into that kind of stuff, there's loads. I'm a cyberpunk guy, and there's nothing for me.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

Yeah, there's because because and it's a similar wow, that's interesting. It's a similar thing because it's all kind of cartoonish, where probably the high water mark is still Blade Runner, right?

SPEAKER_02 55:23

Like, yeah, Blade Runner, um, like Akira Ghost in the Shell, like if I want to go anime route.

SPEAKER_01 55:31

Um, and then what was that one that Rodriguez did?

SPEAKER_02 55:35

Oh, uh Elite Battle.

SPEAKER_01 55:37

Yeah, that was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 55:38

Yeah, that was I like that one a lot.

SPEAKER_01 55:40

And then the um actually the the Matt Damon one is pretty good too.

SPEAKER_02 55:44

Elysium, yeah, that's dope.

SPEAKER_01 55:47

Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's a few, but it's not really Cyberpunk, but it's in the same vein.

SPEAKER_02 55:53

It's that sort of it's the future and it's knackered, yeah. But I mean, you know, we are getting um the uh all the words.

SPEAKER_01 56:07

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 56:08

I had high hopes for altered carbon, but yeah, I think first series was I enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_01 56:15

The first one, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:18

And then I read it.

SPEAKER_01 56:19

But would you because the books are much, much I don't remember that was so long ago, but I just remember, you know, it was probably like a trilogy or something reading them all.

SPEAKER_02 56:29

I think the problem is, is um what's his name? Joel Kinneman, I think it was. He did such a good job of playing that role that when they changed him for Anthony Mackey, I was like, I'm sorry, my guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not my you're not my guy. That that's if you'd come in the first series and you had given me the same performance, I would have loved you as well. But you know what I mean? And it was a difficult one that I felt sort of like uh.

SPEAKER_01 56:59

Yeah, that was that was my brain's going now, but that was the the jarring thing, speaking of fantasy, in um The House of Dragons, right? Where like you're just warming up to that young actress, and you're like, oh wow, she's really good. Like, she's the star of the show. And then like three episodes in, she's just gone, and it's an older actress playing her. And you're like, you're like, oh wait, what? What the that was I don't want this. I mean, I eventually was like, oh, okay, but it was like, don't do that.

SPEAKER_02 57:32

It's uh the neuromancer, the uh William Gibson. That's um they're making that.

SPEAKER_01 57:37

I uh it's so funny you say that. So for me it's storytelling and it's Wi-Fi because Star Wars and the prop making, but I'm not uh savant, I'm not like a connoisseur, you know. I get a lot asked a lot of you know, it's the imposter syndrome, it's like I don't know, I just love the aesthetics of sci-fi, and that's what I make, but I'm not like a student of it. Yeah. But then, you know, every once in a while I feel like you know, I due diligence. And um I was like, what's the first, you know, sci-fi? Like, but it was new neuromancer, right? Like that's what and it's funny, I was just cleaning up the other day, and I have you know, from eBay, I I have that book. I have I have yet to read it.

SPEAKER_02 58:26

Oh, good luck. I considering it's my favorite like subject and genre and stuff, I've tried to read it three times and I've even tried to listen to the audiobook twice, and it's like something about this one just doesn't sit.

SPEAKER_01 58:41

So hard. Oh like I powered through it so many times I powered through Dune. But to the extent of like I didn't get anything out of it because of the goals.

SPEAKER_02 58:54

I'm just reading words, turning pages. I mean, yeah, I did the same with Dune. Started reading it, got about halfway.

SPEAKER_01 59:02

And then for all the like criticism that David Lynch's Dune gets, I was excited about the new Dune because I was like, oh, okay. And I was like, the thing that kind of was a disappointment for me in the new one is they extrapolated the same story as David Lynch. I was like, oh, maybe we're gonna because it's such a deviation, yeah. And so my point was like, you know, these are talented people spending a lot of money, and that must be all you can get out of it. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 59:34

And still I guess that's the story.

SPEAKER_01 59:38

Yeah, you know what I mean? Because I remember there being other things about religion and stuff. I'm like, oh, maybe this new one will and it's like it kind of felt to me, obviously I know it wasn't, but on a on a very superficial level, it felt to me like, oh, they were just remaking the 80s David Lynch one because they basically followed the same.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:01

So, I mean, that was that could have almost been considered a hot take, but what's your controversial opinion on a famous film?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:09

I like I said, I don't have one because it's so hard to make a movie, you know. It's so hard. And then, you know, you hear this a lot, and it's like it becomes a cliche because it's true, right? Where it's like you'll hear filmmakers and actors say, like, well, we weren't trying to make a bad movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:30

Like, we were No, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:32

You know what I mean? So it's like I the only thing I would say in general that really bothers me now is um how the like if we're talking streaming and now we're streaming like epic proportion productions, the writing is so dumbed down. Oh yeah, that I for a minute I thought, well, maybe I'm I'm being eccentric and being like insider where I'm like being judgmental. Yes, but then the more and more I started watching it, I was like, I would play this game where I'm like you're watching something, and I'll be like, Well, surely she's not gonna say this obvious thing. And then I'm like, Oh, okay, well, that's bad writing. And then cut to like a week later, I'm watching something else, different genre, different production company, and it's like, well, surely they're not gonna. It's like, oh, like, you know, I've been involved in writing and producing long enough where it's like, oh, that's the first thing that comes up in the room. Then we're like, okay, yeah, but no, we can't put that in, and then we'll come back to that. We'll do something more interesting or more original or whatever, you know, and then and then cut to like years later, then I'll see like actors on a talk show or a podcast or whatever talking about that. That's the the marching orders. It's to make it that because people are are multi-screen watching and not sitting in a theater absorbing the story, they're like they're like watching it, and then like oh, I just got a text from this guy, uh we can like come back to it, and then they keep reiterating the plot. So that's I I I I I put my nose up at that. You know what I mean? Yeah, I think that's fair. Yeah, it was just so funny. Like the first time I was like, well, you know, I know how the sausage is made, so exactly I knew how to say next. But like after the tenth time, I was like, wait a second, what is going on? Like something's up here, like this is not just I'm I'm not that smart, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:59

Yeah, it's like if I could call the f the bingo numbers the same way.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:04

You know, like I felt like I was uh like a tenured professor in in in film literature, you know, being like, oh that's you know, but it's like, oh no, I'm not that, and I'm having this reaction. But God.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:21

I don't know if that's a hot take, but that's no, but I think it's a take that needs to be said. I think more uh studios need to hear that the audience doesn't necessarily want it dumbed down.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:34

If if it don't play to the dumbest audience, if if the story's good, they'll put their phones down.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:43

So that's and talking about phones and that, like I'm never worried about like well, you could just make a film on your phone. Yeah. But you can't make a good, watchable one, you know what I mean? Or same thing, like I'm not afraid of AI, like I use AI. Me and my uh creative partner were always experimenting with like, oh, what's you know, what did you see? Did you see this thing came out right now? And and it's it's just a tool, you know, so it's like yeah, I mean the AI storytelling is terrible. It's fine for like YouTube or or streaming, you know, like here's a couple minutes of a of a Yeti doing a thing, like, oh my god, that's amazing. But if it's like character-driven, like repeatable, it's just not there, and it's a tool, so it's like if you actually get in there and you try to use those tools, it's not a it's not a magic button. It's not, it can enhance things and it can, but it's not gonna I don't know, it's just it's just a different thing. But um like for example, in Wakener, what we were talking about earlier about doing stuff yourself, Wakener had I mean not Wakener, Starfisher had a very minimal, minimal, bare bones budget that I you know, and I just kind of willed that into existence, and I was always like, Well, the way I can afford this is I'll do the VFX and AI, because it's just spaceships and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:30

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:30

Characters, you know, it's interstitial moments. But then when it came time to do it, it's like it's not there, it can't do that. You know what I mean? It could do like a spaceship, but it can't give me 10 spaceship shots that are kind of yeah, so I had to go in and uh I finally broke down and taught myself Blender and did all the spaceship myself.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:55

See, it is a tool.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:56

Yeah, but what's frustrating about that is like All AI is gonna do is use Blender quicker and faster than me. But it's just not and it's it's definitely a hot button topic, you know what I mean? But it's like I just feel like like with the phone, you know, yeah, anybody can make a a a film with a phone, but uh uh is it a good film? Is it good storytelling? And I think it's the same with AI. It's like and I think it'll be a different genre. Like again, talking about the early days, and I think this is worth noting, when I started filmmaking, the reason I started filmmaking is because it was the advent of the digital era. Prior to that, I was with a collective and we would make music videos and we would do all this stuff, but that was like low, low budget was like Super 16 film. And then you'd have to process that, and then you'd have to get a transfer and then get the lights, and you don't know what you're shooting. And you just couldn't do that, like, oh, I have this idea for a film, let's try it out, you know. And then video happened, digital video, and all the people in the filmmaking space were like, video, what are you talking about? Like, that's not real, and it's terrible.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:18

The same feelings I have about AI, you know, so it's like Yeah, it it it's very similar to what you were saying about social media and YouTube. You can kick against it or you can embrace it and just make sure that what you do with it is creative and unique, not just nonsense. Because like you said, anyone can make nonsense. Anyone can just upload 10-hour videos of waves, waves lapping with a sound and technically have millions of views, but that's not creative.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:49

Yeah. And it's and it's a different there's like subdivision, and it's a different form of entertainment, if we call it that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:58

That's a hundred percent. It is a different form of entertainment. And I think the people that are watching Netflix or other streaming services like over their phones, they're not they don't care what's on. Right, right. It's just background noise. Right. So if you're trying to appeal to that audience, then make something that'll appeal. It's gonna have big flashy noises and loud sounds and all that kind of stuff, and some nice colours, and something that they can just easily lap up. But if you also want to create something that's different, right, right or story-driven.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:36

Or you know, that moves people or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:40

Those people will still seek it out. Like I think I think people are people are nuanced. They can enjoy, you know, a corn corn dog, and they can also enjoy like a a a a proper meal. Like it just depends on a mood, and I think you just want to make sure that there's always a spectrum of that. Because if you're only if you're only catering to one thing, uh you end up with MAGA. So yeah. You know what I mean? Um, what have you been watching recently?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:13

Uh recently. Like the honest answer is like YouTube shows.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:23

Self, you know, like a guy in the woods with a chainsaw built like this whole like or the guy who renovates the and then as far as the filmmaking stuff, like I do like watch live prop and costume channel. Like, I like Punish Props.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:43

Yeah, they could.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:44

I like PlayStation.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:45

I got I got their Decad Blaster. What's that? I got the Punish Props uh Decads Blaster with all the LEDs.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:54

So nice. Such a nice kit.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:56

And then like the Adam Savage stuff is like my uh tested, that's like my um like it's I treat that like my magazine of like what are current things going on because he's he's all into like, oh, what's the new technology for makeup props or whatever? So I'm like, oh okay. He does that work for me, so I can just kind of follow him.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:18

And I I will say there's a lot of stuff that like I'll watch un uh tested, and then I'll have to go buy myself a new set of mechanical pencils because I saw one that he had. You know, and I'm just like, oh, I should probably get I should probably get that pencil too.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:34

And then um as far as like proper shows, I typically whatever the big show is that's getting a lot of attention, I'll like bookmark it, and I like to wait until it's done, and because I like to watch like three episodes at a time.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:54

I'm doing that with Fallout.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:55

I just finished Fallout.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:58

Oh nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:59

Yeah. That was that was that was good, you know. It was good, it wasn't like oh man.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:05

I rewatched the first series because I thought I haven't seen it since it came out, and I wanted to wait until the end of series two had finished so that I could watch it in my own time, and we've just finished series one, and I just thought, like, series one's excellent. Like, I hope to is equally as good.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:23

Yeah, it's funny talking about that in Game of Thrones. I was talking to a friend of mine the other day, and um like around COVID time, we were just like watching so much stuff, I did this thing where I watched Game of Thrones backwards. So I started with the last and I went all the way back just sort of as like an exercise.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:51

And I it was like, oh, this is really cool, and then I did it with the Sopranos, and I did it with another show, but what I realized was with all these like well-known revered shows, all the stuff that's in my mind when I think of that show, majority of it takes place in the first episode. And then all the subsequent stuff is just kind of like comfort food, like you know what I mean? It's like comfort entertainment, like, oh, I love this thing, and I'm gonna watch it. Yeah, but like the stuff that I remember about those shows, like if somebody was to pop quiz me about like one of those shows, I'm like, oh, this is interesting. Most of it takes place in the first episode. I don't know what that's but that's but that's the other that I have.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:47

It's uh I'm the same with X-Files. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. First episode of X-Files, I I got it. And then if you tell me anything else, I'm like, I mean, yeah, that that that's just a sea of loveliness that happened afterwards. But there was this episode, there was this episode, but the first episode. Yeah, I've tried rewatching that recently, and uh uh that that's a show that really suffers having 20 plus episodes a series.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:12

And and also too, like things are especially with like you know, science fiction and horror and technical stuff involved, they rarely hold up.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:25

Because I remember I remember going talking about like horror. Like I remember seeing Nightmare on Elm Street in the theater, and just not even like being like having palpitations and being like, uh then it's you know, it's on cable and I'm watching it, and it's ridiculous. Like it's almost like comedy, you know? I'm like, what? How did how did that how did that happen? Like, you know what I mean? Because at the time when it came out, it was or like the ring, like seeing the ring in the theater. Oh my god, the ring when it just came out, any and I didn't know anything about anything when I saw that. It was perfect, you know? And it was just like, what the scared the shit out of me? It's funny, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:11

You put the ring on, yeah. I'd put the ring on now on my own, and I'd be like, Yeah, alright, cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:15

Whatever. Come out of the T or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:17

Yeah. It's not a thing. Yeah. Yeah, it's weird. It's weird how those like how they get you.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:25

But then like Excalibur holds up. A Western will always hold up.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:31

A Western is a good Western is uh like a fucking three-course meal. It's so good.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:37

That's sort of my like backburn, like I'd love to make a Western one day.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:42

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:42

Or something or something World War II, but oh really World War II because we're just talking props and costumes, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:52

Yeah, you make some good stuff. I just watched Westworld, the Michael Crichton one.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:57

And uh, I haven't seen that for Oh, it was good. Yeah, it would definitely be like watching it for the first time if I if I file it.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:07

Oh, nice. Well then I recommend it. Because yeah, it was uh that was definitely like uh oh western's and future shit. Yeah. Alright.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:15

Yeah, sci-fi western.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:17

Go on then.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:18

Yeah, like that. What's that? Cowboys and aliens.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:21

That was a little too favourite.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:24

It was well done.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:25

But it very well done but too too polished.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:28

Didn't have any like soul.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:30

Well, thank you very much for coming on. Uh it's been great talking to you. Do you want to do a quick shout out for um some films on Dust?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:39

Yeah, um, you know, you can if you go to my channel, uh it's uh YouTube Create Sci-Fi. You see all my phones and props and costumes, and then on Dust, my film Starfisher will be coming out, I believe, March 30th. So that's the new one that'll be available. But again, if you go to Create Sci-Fi, there'll be um you know I'll post prior to it coming out, so be aware. But like, yeah, if if anything I said interests anyone, if you go to my YouTube channel, it's pretty much a visual representation of what we've been talking about.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:21

Do check it out, everyone, because there is uh that that idea of prop making and seeing things in everyday items that you're like, oh, I sh that could turn into something. And then you have a workshop full of just toys and bits. It's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:37

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:37

Um, but yeah, I'll link everything in the description notes. So if everyone is interested, you'll be able to find them in there. Uh but thank you very much for coming on. I hope you had a good time.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:46

Yeah, it's such a pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:49

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:49

Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:50

And uh yeah, hopefully stay in touch.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:52

Yeah, and uh your film, Real Terror. Thank you very much. People can watch that.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:00

That's also linked below.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:02

Yeah, right on.