Felicity Wren - Development Executive at the ISA (International Screenwriters' Association)

Joining me this week, Felicity Wren

Felicity is a development executive, producer, and award-winning actor working in London and Los Angeles. After earning Honors and Master’s degrees, she co-founded Unrestricted View, a London-based production company and theatre (unrestrictedview.co.uk) now in its 29th year. The company also curates three (one BIFA-accredited) film festivals, spotlighting bold new voices in Independent Film at UVFF.co.uk. They have recently launched a publishing company and are supporting independent filmmakers through an initiative they founded: Open Screen London, and with the UVFF Film Fund hosted by Genera Films.
Felicity has produced nineteen film projects and won five performance awards. She currently serves as VP of Development at both Creative Screenwriter Productions and the International Screenwriters’ Association (ISA), where she supports top-tier screenwriting talent and cultivates meaningful industry connections.
She now splits her time between London & LA, and is interested in fostering partnerships and making introductions between UK filmmakers and Producers and her LA contacts.

Networkisa.org

Unrestrictedview.co.uk

Uvff.co.uk

Awrenbird.com

My letterboxd:

My film Reel Terror:

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Your Life and Film. I'm your host, Ted Bennett. Joining me this week, Felicity Wren. Felicity is Vice President of Development at the ISA, the International Screenwriters Association. She is also one of the founders of Unrestricted View Film Festival. And also the Hen and Chickens Theatre. She also did some acting in her time. Felicity and I got on really well from the get-go, so that was really lovely. There is a moment where a fire alarm goes off in this, and that's why there's a bit of a weird break. You know I don't normally care about spoilers, because you know, fuck you all for not watching films. But uh we do spoil quite a lot of Project Hail Mary towards the end of this. It's in the last sort of five minutes. So uh if you don't want it spoiled for you, uh go and watch it. Don't want don't do that thing of like go watch it and come back. Just listen to my podcast and you know, then do whatever you like. We start the conversation talking about Felicity's recent trip to Tribecker and Cannes. So uh we'll lead right into that. So you said it was the first time you went to Tribecker. Like, is that just you don't normally do the festivals or we've done a few of them actually.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

Um because basically the one of the contests that the ISA runs is a table read my screenplay contest. And so the prize is you get a table read of a screenplay. Um, and we've done them in different places. Yeah, in Hollywood, then you actually kind of go to a theatre and it's like happens in front of you with actors and stuff. But we did them at Austin Film Festival, uh, Chicago International, um, New Orleans, uh the BFI in London, and Park City. So we did kind of like an array of these festivals, and then last year, for the first year, we took them to Cannes. Um, and so then this was the second year of Cannes. But we've we're kind of reorganizing it a bit now because the thing that happens is if you do it at the festival, first then you have to find actors who were at the festival that have free time, you know, to actually be part of it. And then you spend, well, I normally I'd be organizing it or narrating it. So, like the I would spend a lot of my time that not enjoying the festival but just working on that. Whereas we actually found now that we do the recordings as a podcast so that it becomes a sales tool for the writer, and you can invite people to that podcast and it can uh you can do the whole thing because people don't get bored, and then um you can just go to the film festival and go like, I'm an award-winning like screenwriter. And the fact that you have this coming up, you know, and we've got Randall Jackson, who's a director on shrinking, doing this recent one. Um and so it's you can say that to someone and they know who he is, and then they also understand what he's gonna be. And you can people can still ask you if they can have the podcast in the future, or can they, you know, hear it. And because it exists now and it's not in the ether and it's not sounded like something magical that was a kind of theatrical event, it um it means that you can still it's it's of worth after the event, which I think is a good thing. But yeah, no, so I've never been to Tribeca, but it was crazy because the Knicks were playing and it was, you know, it was crazy.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

That's just bonkers. Like New York went mad for that.

SPEAKER_03 3:22

Yeah, and it with the day that we were the we were the Wednesday, and then was it the Thursday night? The Thursday, no, the Wednesday night after our event. That's the night when they were 30 points down, and then one by one point. So it was banana pants. America was on fire, New York was having the best dance party, street party of its life. Um, and again, it was really humid there and thundery, so it felt like somehow magic was happening.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

No, I get that. I I will say, whenever I'm in New York, I feel like that anyway. Like, I love New York, I think it's probably my favorite US city for sure. Um, but there's something about every time I'm in New York, I'm just like, I love it here. I absolutely love it here. And my brother lived there for about 10 years, and I was always like, I've got to get over there, I've got to figure it out, I've got to get over there. And then uh Trump got in, and I was like, Yeah, you're right.

unknown 4:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

A buddy of mine lives in Queens, and like whenever I go and visit him, it's quite nice going out of town. He lives like um quite close to Jamaica, the station, and like it's just so easy just to sort of be like, instead of going in, I just come out, go to Jamaica, get off, and just like go one extra stop up the way, and I'm like, I'm at Vince's house, this is lovely. And then it's just normal, small America, but you're also only half an hour from the city.

SPEAKER_03 4:45

I yeah, when I went and stayed for the first time in America, uh in New York, I've been a few times, I stayed in Queens, stayed in Astoria, and I've stayed in Brooklyn since. And I that for me, there's no comparison now. I mean, yeah, you can stay in Manhattan ten stars. I love the Lower East Side. Um but if you are gonna stay outside of it, then Queens, Astoria is my second favourite.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

I don't know what it is about New York, it's just uh it's just it hits every right point for me. Like, and I love it. And I don't know whether it's because cinema, you know, as a kid, it was all those films like Spike Spikes films, that I was just like, Oh, that's that's that's New York, and I love the look of that, and I want some of that, and then you, you know, mean streets, you're like, I want some of that, you know. And then when you get there, you're like, Oh, it is like this.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

Yeah, what do you have?

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Yeah, you're like, Oh, I guess I guess you know, I watched a lot of Seinfeld before we all found out, and um like all that sort of upper side upper, was it upper west side? No, he's upper east side, isn't he? And um Upper West Side, he's upper west side, and it's that's lovely. I love it up there, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:57

And Central Park's kind of magical. My friends got married in Central Park, and they uh come on.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

That's nice.

SPEAKER_03 6:03

Uh uh a little bandstand, and then they kind of like rode across the lake to us, and then we they got married in the bandstand, and then they'd hired the um fairground, so everyone went on the fairground wearing matching sunglasses that they got for us, and then they got us rickshaw's to the Carlton Hotel, and we had a reception. I mean, like it was a it was a bougie kind of like fun wedding, but it was like so fun in the I mean, what a way to get married.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

I think as well, like New York is definitely one of those ones, if you've got the money, like you can experience the most wonderful of things, but even if you don't have the money, you can you can experience wonderful things in a completely different way. You can have a real after hours sort of situation where it's you know mad hijinks in some random bar. It's it just appeals to no matter where you are. That's why I think I love it. I think Liverpool is the only country town or city in this country that I think is almost similar, in my opinion. I love Liverpool for some reason.

SPEAKER_03 7:04

Right, oh I love that. Yeah, I think I've passed through, but I've never really stayed in Liverpool.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Oh, it's great. It's great, it's really good fun.

SPEAKER_03 7:12

Um I'm excited to uh go go see. Okay, I just know this morning filmed it, didn't it?

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Yes, it did on the docks. Yeah, it was a floating, and I was always amazed by that as a kid, and then I saw it and I was like, oh, it's not it's boring. I don't care about that. Um Dream Club. Yeah, just into pieces. There used to be, I don't know if it's still there, but there used to be um this pub opposite a strip club called Angels, and the friends I would go with would always want to go to the strip club, and strip clubs just I don't I don't see the appeal. I obviously I understand the appeal, but I don't I don't enjoy them. So I'd always be like, Oh, we're gonna go to this pub. And the pub used to do it would advertise triple like Jack and Coke for like $2.70.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Hideously cheap. And when you were downstairs in this pub, it is the most dribbly old man pub, a pregnant lady behind the bar eating walnut whips just non-stop, and you're like, okay, this is a run-down place. But then the the footfall was so high, and you're like, why where's everyone going? Like it's all it's busy, what's going on? And you look upstairs and everyone's going upstairs. And if you went upstairs, just a massive gay bar. And it was just like, oh, I love this. I love that downstairs it's old dribbly pints, and upstairs it's a massive gay bar, and it's just like these worlds are just happily coexisting, and I can be in here while my friends like to get hard-ons with each other. I don't know what they do. I don't know what they do over there. And it was just like this is better.

SPEAKER_03 8:44

Yeah, I would prefer to be in that bar too.

unknown 8:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

I I think I've been in one strip club and very quickly realized this wasn't for me. I was just like, I don't get it. And then just the looks on my mates' faces, I was like, I don't like seeing you like this. You've got weird boys, like you've got a bit feral. I don't like that at all. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

I went to uh one a couple of times um as research when I was doing a play, and I had to be someone's sexual fantasy, so I I learned the poll for six. Oh, nice from and uh went to a couple of strip clubs just to see what women's like men's fantasy of women is, and um it was a very uh kind of eye-opening uh experience. I didn't feel in the one I went to um the hippodrome, I'm trying to think where it was, it wasn't the one in Leicester Square, but it was they wouldn't let us come in. It was me and my girlfriend, and they wouldn't let us come in without her her partner, her husband.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Oh right.

SPEAKER_03 9:58

Um, so they wouldn't let just two women in on their own, they had to bring a man with them in order to even enter the environment, which kind of was like, what if I was gay? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 10:08

That seems gay women don't exist, and gay women don't like looking at women. That's just we all know these facts. Come on.

SPEAKER_03 10:13

So uh so that was one thing. Um and then uh but the women themselves I actually thought were more empowered than sometimes they're portrayed.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 10:25

Um and so it was just looking at and my you know, my friend's husband was only there because we were there. He was he wasn't like, let's go! You know what I mean? He was like, Oh come on, let's do that research.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Let's go do some research.

SPEAKER_03 10:38

He was like, I'll come so you can go inside. Um so his face, and they were all over him, and his face you could see was like, you know, help. Um, but it was just looking at the at some of the people in there, and and the the stories they're telling themselves about how attractive they are, and that you know, that they're gonna get the real name from this person, and they're gonna have this other relationship that's not it's not a paid one, it's kind of a real thing, it's like a girlfriend, um outside of the club, and all that. I mean, it was kind of um it's just kind of sad, really.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

I think the wrestler did it really well, um, where like Mickey Rourke sort of falls for Marissa Tomei, and then he thinks he's got sort of special perks and privileges, and not even in like a sexual way, just in a sort of like a familiarity way, and sort of you know, thinking that they can meet up for a coffee or a drink outside, and it's like, no, no, it's we're just you're a client, that's all you are, that's all this is, it's transactional. And I realized that when I was speaking to some dancers, and uh realizing like, oh, you're just exploiting like male loneliness, and the male sort of like the the male audience that turns up, I think they know that. And as soon as I realized that, I was like, oh, I don't really care about this. As in like we all know, we all know the deal. These folks are lonely, these ladies are gonna make some money off of that, and they're gonna use that money to do whatever they want, and it's gonna be great. And it's like, great, crack on, keep going.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

Yeah, I think I mean I don't know, because I'm not a man, but I don't know if they might cons I don't know if that would be for me looking at the situation why they go. They don't think I'm lonely, so I'm gonna go there. I think it might just be the thing, the underlying, so it's that looking for connection. Um but it is that idea of looking for connection in a way that's um only sexual, so superficial. So there isn't, you know, and that there's a weird power dynamic as well, I think, in sex clubs that yeah, certain people want to exploit. They think they're in charge, but they're not, and I'm sure I think some people still think they're in charge.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

And you know, they're the one with the bucket of pound coins, they're the ones that can say what's happening. They're the ones.

SPEAKER_03 13:14

A bucket of pound coins. Is that what they they have to can't tuck that in your knickers in your knickers?

SPEAKER_00 13:20

I remember hearing that that because we don't have you know one pound notes, they go round with a with a box, with a little cup, and you put a quid in it. And that feels so much like a penny drop game that it's just sort of like this this feels thank you. Just pop it in the top, in the thing. It just feels like so odd. I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

I don't know. It's not for me.

SPEAKER_03 13:45

It's not for it's not for me either. I mean, I did I did it, I saw it. I went, I came, I saw I didn't come.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

I went, I it's your business if you did.

SPEAKER_03 13:55

No one came, but I saw. Um, but it was uh yeah, I mean it's I think anyone I'm I'm uh all up for permission, you know. Anyone can do exactly what they want as long as it's not hurting anyone else.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

100%.

SPEAKER_03 14:10

So I don't want to stop these things from existing. I wish that they were unionized and regulated and more safe for women and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Um I think that's the only that's the only thing that's always the case. It's like let people do whatever they deem the right thing for them, and as long as no one's getting hurt, and that is through safeguarding, unionizing, doing all these things. But then by adding that layer, I do think that that allows for corruption, and then you just get I don't know, it there's never a fix for it because scumbags will always be scumbags.

SPEAKER_03 14:48

Well, I mean, there's a reason why sex trafficking exists, you know, and continues to exist, and child sex trafficking and women being snatched off streets still, and you know, it's it's not spoken about, but I think the Epstein files kind of showed another example and like another, you know, of of respected um men who are really doing some incredibly disgusting things to young women and um and some young men too. I mean, like that's the thing that was awful about it. It was just children and then young women.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

I mean, it was like it was yeah, yeah, it does seem odd that it just it it doesn't seem like there's anyone with any wealth or power. I say there isn't anyone, there are plenty of people with wealth and power who aren't pieces of shit. But it's really disheartening to find out that even like the golden dweeb that is Bill Gates was being a scumbag as well, and you're just like, oh come on, Bill, like you didn't have to sleep with sex workers. Like, you didn't have to do that, you didn't have to cheat on your wife, you didn't have to then find out if you can secretly give her antibiotics because you don't want to give her an STD. You didn't have to do any of that, you could have just not done it. You could have just made your money, given 90% of it to charity, and we all would have just accepted you.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

But yeah, I think that's the thing. She really got to see who he was. I I think she'd kind of have like known something because I think people just know. Um but I I don't don't think she was in any way um I mean the things that happened on that island were really another level of horror that I just don't think most people would think could happen or would happen. No, so I think finding that out about Eurex, I mean, thank goodness she was already divorced and she'd already kind of said, you know, he's a cheater, which is why.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

And rather than that's the thing. Like when they got the divorce, I was really surprised because I was like, oh, I thought those two were good, and you know, they do all that charity work. And then when it came out about all the uh Russian sex workers from Epstein, I was like, Oh, she found that out, yeah. Uh, and that was that, and it was like, good honour, good honour, and also good honour for not airing his dirty laundry and being like they were all of age, and yes, they were sex workers, and that's its own separate thing, but I'm not gonna air your dirty laundry, but except that it is going to come out one day, and I was like, Oh, good honour. She just very maturely was like, Oh, uh, no, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 17:36

Yeah, I think McKenzie, Mackenzie Bezos is like the is one of my heroines. Yeah, um, it shows you that you can have loads of money and be a wonderful person, and she still has more money than when she divorced Jeff.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 17:53

Um, and she's given so much of it away, but because she is so rich, it's still making more than she can kind of give away.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

So hideous that I don't understand how that works.

SPEAKER_03 18:03

But it's crazy when you think she's given away like many, like hundreds of millions of dollars. I mean, like it's probably even more than that now, and um, and that Jay, Jeff, in comparison or Elon won't give away a penny. Um, and they could do all that and they would still be have like this in the same boat as her, which would be with more money than than they had.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

My a friend of mine, I'm not gonna name names, but a friend of mine is um part of the is it patriotic millionaires? And they're a group of millionaires who are campaigning to pay more tax. That's good because because they're like, we we don't need this much, other people do. And I was just like, oh, thank fuck that there are people like this. Because it's just like good, good, yeah, that no one needs that much. Like once you've got yourself settled, that's it. Like, get yourself settled, make sure you are all good, and then whatever is left over, give. Just give it to other people, give it to charitable causes. He's also a very extremely charitable man, but it's just like, yeah, that's that's how you deal with wealth.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

It facilitates other people, but well, I think it's the ridiculous thing that they think they don't owe it to anyone. Um when literally people work for them and go, you know, have children that go to the schools, drive to work on the roads that were made through the public taxes, you know, drink the water that is subsidized. Is this all we're all in it together? So paying your taxes just means that then the people that come and work for you and make you more money have a nicer life. So that's all you're doing, you're just giving it back that way rather than it's not going to some. I mean, it's you hope. It's not going to a pot on the ground, it's actually going to help people and the idea that they just did it all by themselves, they did not. No, it's the Amazon workers that have made Jeff very um a multi-millionaire. And same with Elon. I mean, like he has just bought companies. He is, you know.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

He's not done anything.

SPEAKER_03 20:06

No.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Like he has made nothing. Like yet he has got a trillion dollars.

SPEAKER_03 20:13

He's just he lost so much money actually this last week, he's not a trillionaire anymore already.

unknown 20:18

Good. Good.

SPEAKER_03 20:20

But I mean, like, it's that whole thing. I don't think we can fathom money in that way, because isn't it? Is that whole thing? Did we talk about this last time about um a million seconds is 11 days or something?

SPEAKER_00 20:34

A billion is like 33 years. Yeah, that's hideous. Like, and so I saw someone had posted a thing that said, if we were in the animal kingdom and one monkey had a trillion bananas, the rest of us would kill that monkey for their bananas. And it was like, it's true, we would. We would. I don't know why we're not doing that now.

SPEAKER_03 20:56

Uh I mean I like bananas, but I couldn't eat a trillion of them.

unknown 21:00

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

I'd give it a good old go, but you know what I mean? I'd have to make a lot of splits, a lot of banana splits to really get through them.

SPEAKER_03 21:09

Yeah, I was gonna have that's ice cream and chocolate, really. That's what you want, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 21:13

Come on.

SPEAKER_03 21:14

Not really the banana. Bananas are in there.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

They're in there. You can't have a banana split without it. It's called a banana split.

SPEAKER_03 21:24

Yeah, but you can have Sunday.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

That's true. That's true. All right, I'll just have Sundays. I'll have a thousand Sundays, you guys can have trillion bananas, we're good to go. We're good to go. Uh, you you mentioned briefly um acting. Yes. Do you still perform?

SPEAKER_03 21:44

Uh it was one of those things that um at the age of seven, I either had to choose between ballet or drama. Um and my I spoke to my ballet teacher and she looked at my second toe, you know, your big toe and then The second toe. If my second toe is longer than the first one, she went, It's gonna be miserable for you. Unless I was tall as well, so um, because there's something about that second toe being long because then it just goes you know, before when you go on to the point.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Looking at mine and I have the same thing, so I could never go on point. Is that what they're saying?

SPEAKER_03 22:16

Yeah, so point you could do it, but it's it's very painful, and it really does kind of uh it's um it's better if it if the toes slope down, you know, and also that you're five foot and waffer thin. Um whereas I was already pretty tall for a uh for a kid. So anyway, I chose drama. Um so I've done a I've really acted all my life, but um, and that's why I went to LA is because I thought that what they need is um like a British Meryl Streep that hasn't had her career but could have had her career.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

Um that um so you're always looking out for fresh young talent. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:56

Well, just also as well, you know, someone that hasn't had any work done that could be Meryl Streep's illegitimate daughter. It's really hard being the daughter, an illegitimate daughter of a woman, though, because they have to be pregnant with you. You know, it's much easier to be an illegitimate daughter of a man.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:14

So I probably just turn up. Yeah, just didn't think that through properly. But I but I thought it'd be fun to go and do that. And then when I got to LA and um, and I mean the process, we I mean we were moving into self-tapes and all that stuff. So um I realized that you need to have a really great American actress uh accent, and mine's okay, but the problem is whenever you really lose it in emotion, your natural accent returns. And I think that's what happens quite a lot, um, even in the most skilled of performers. Also, British to American isn't as easy as an accent to swap as Irish to American or Australian to American. That it's just the placement in the mouth of the tongue. Yeah. Um, so I always think there's I hear British actors doing American all the time, and of course when I lived there for 15 years, I was like, oh god, I can hear you even worse because I was so used to American accents around me continually. So I thought there are a million brilliant female American actors that should be up for these roles, not me. But anyway, I tend to be like witchy, bitchy lawyers or a doctor, something like that, you know, quite sometimes evil. Um and I had a lot of fun doing that, but I realized as well is that sometimes you are scrabbling around trying to get a role for a script that you don't really like that much. And um so what I do now is because my ex-husband, who I started the business I have in the UK with, um can you hear that washing machine above me?

SPEAKER_00 24:50

I can, yes. It's fine, it's not bad. I can hear a little murmur.

SPEAKER_03 24:55

I feel like it's gonna go, I'm it's making my chair wobble, it's very exciting. Um, but he's also a writer. Um, so he for our first wedding anniversary, it's paper. So I bought him a pad and he wrote his first play, and we put it on at the Etcra theatre in Camden, and then his second play we put on at the Hen and Chickens, and we've run that venue since 1999. And I like working with people that I know whose work I admire, and who being in their work and helping them make the stuff and you know, finding the money or um putting together an incredible crew will help them and me and it'd be an enjoyable process because also it's so hard to make a movie, it really is. Oh well, it's moved to the pictures now.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 25:44

Yeah, it'll be over very quickly.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Is it your washing?

SPEAKER_03 25:49

No, it's my upstairs neighbor. Actually, this this apartment is actually very, very quiet, apart from the washing machine at moment.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

They're running the washing machine at one o'clock on a weekday in the middle of a fucking heat wave. That's weird. You'd have thought not to do that. Do you know what we should do? We should get a really hot motor gunning it off in the middle of the day. That's what we should do. That would make it better.

SPEAKER_03 26:16

That's funny. Yeah. So I think the thing is like I'd um so I would I guess the answer is that like the the short, long, medium, round the corner answer is if there's something really lovely that someone has written. I just did we just did a proof of concept, actually. I just produced a proof of concept on Monday for a horror film, and I did one of the voices in it. So um, and actually my ex was we played this married couple in it, and you don't we don't get to see us, but we're just on we're on the phone, so you can kind of hear us on the speakerphone. And that was really fun to do because I know the projects are like the script, and I was there as a producer, I put it together, but it was kind of also fun then to have a bit of a play around being a yeah, a slightly spooky, weirdy lady. So I think that's the thing. Never say never, but um also as well, I think I've drunk a lot of wine in my life, so remembering things is harder.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

Fair, fair, fair, fair. You'll just have to get the uh the lines fed through an ear because that's what you need.

SPEAKER_03 27:13

It's so terrible. I mean you could never do that.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Do it with a bit of a turn, you know.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

Just pretend you're in an SNL sketch and they just have it written out all around the room.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Yeah, but just don't Jimmy Fallon it and like always be laughing, you know.

SPEAKER_03 27:26

Yeah. So, but yeah, that's it. It was interesting. That's a very sad scene, and Felicity's just seemed to be laughing all the way through it and looking in one direction in particular, and there's this sound of boards clattering to the floor.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

Look, everything is an audition for SNL. We all know that. We all want to be on SNL.

SPEAKER_03 27:45

Yeah, makes sense. But it was it's a um it's such a fun thing to do when there's no pressure on it, but when it's all you do, yes, um, it's it's you don't go on holiday, you spend all your time obsessing, you have to people I know that are actors full-time spend so much of their existence bigging up projects or saying, I nearly got that, or there was a friend who was always like, I was so close, I was down to the last two on this one, and you just felt it doesn't matter, you didn't do it, and yet it's you're and I don't mind, but other people, if they find out you're an actor, just say, What have you done and who are you? And you know, almost why do you exist if I haven't seen you on Coronation Street? Or why are you just garney senders? And you'd be like, Well, yeah, that would be good.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

Exactly that. It's like, why? Well, have you been on a soap? Would I have seen you on a soap? It's like, no, but I was in a very well-received, you know, short or a film. And it's like, would I have seen that? I don't know. Do you go to art festivals? Well then you wouldn't have seen my work.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

Well, it's also like you wouldn't ask an accountant to do a big sum. Or you know, like it's it's I would. You would. Oh well that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

Yeah, get that calculator. Well, you got a Casio. No chance, mate.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

What percentage of taxes am I paying?

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Um and then just be like, go on, go, okay.

SPEAKER_03 29:09

Not impressed, mate. Not impressed. But yeah, no, I think that's the thing. If they find out you're a singer or an actor and they're like, do a bit, yeah. Well, I mean, I think people are like that than now than they used to be. I think reality TV maybe helped with that. I don't know. It's one of those weird things because then it made people think that they could be an actor, and it's actually really one of the hardest things to lose yourself, um, and really take on the persona, the energy, the heart rate, the tempo of someone else, and really live in their shoes for a bit. And I think when I was younger, I really enjoyed that. Now, because I'm much happier with myself, I'm like, oh no, I'll just stay over here being this.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

Doesn't it it does feel a bit like that? You just think like when I'm full of angst and misery and stuff, like I could I just want to get it out of me. And then as soon as you've sort of been a bit more like, I'm alright, actually. So like I don't I don't need to yell or scream or cry on demand. I'm okay. You're always trying to do that, bigging yourself up because you don't know who's listening. Because if a producer's listening, they wanna you wanna be like, I'm I'm doing really well and I've been doing this, and it's like, oh, have you? Well, I need someone like you personally. Whereas when you speak to someone a lot more familiar with it, you're just sort of like, oh, I've done fuck all for six months, and I'd be lucky if I've had a phone call from anyone that's of any use, and you'll say that, and then the next day you'll be like, Oh, we we got it.

SPEAKER_03 30:43

I think that whole thing about being real though, is something that in this industry, because it's so expensive, you know, even shorts are thousands and thousands of pounds. You know, we made a short for a proof of concept for a movie, not this one that one that we did before. And it was $42,000, and we shot it uh in two and a half days, and it was still that much money um after we'd paid for the music rights and um hired a parking structure, honestly, hiring a car park, parking structure, very expensive, port to lose because they'd ripped out the toilets, all sorts, all fun things like that. Um, but it's so much money. So I think just having someone that you are friends with that you can trust that you can rely on is so much more important than how impressive your your season is.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

Yeah. I I was telling someone actually last night that they were they were complimenting me on this podcast I do, and they said, you know, it's really good, it's all like it's nice because it's quite a positive one as well. And I was like, oh, uh the stuff that gets cut the most is when we just start bitching about the industry. Right, because everyone who's in the industry will be like this fucking oh my god, there's no money. Amazon are doing this to us, and it's just like oh I fucking know. And I think like sometimes I actually keep that in because I want everyone to know, but then I'm like, no, because I don't I don't want to dissuade any of the people who are like, I really want to give it a go. It's like give it a go, give it a go. It's miserable, but it can be very rewarding, but give it a go. I don't want people to not give it a go, you know.

SPEAKER_03 32:30

I think if you knew how hard it was gonna be, you'd never start.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 32:35

So it's good that you don't know. And therefore you can go into it with this blind optimism and learn so much along the way.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

And you might be one of the fortunate ones that don't get the misery straight off the bat. You might get a couple of good runs that gives you the energy.

SPEAKER_03 32:50

Yeah. And I think you have to really go, why am I doing this? What is the point of me doing this? If it's a vanity project for you, because you think that you should be a film producer or a film director, or then honestly, there's like 50 million other things you could do instead that will probably make you happier.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

So many.

SPEAKER_03 33:12

And I think that's the thing, is like it's telling stories, even being a writer, is very much a calling because it's you're flaying yourself open, whether you think you're hiding it or not, you're not. So, and you are also working out what you think about life, what you think, the things that are your problems in your life, how you feel about yourself, how you feel about your family, how you feel about society in all of your work without even realizing you're doing so. And this is um, I always say kind of very hard but worthwhile therapy that you don't kind of sit with someone asking the questions, you ask yourself the questions, and then your characters argue it out for you. So you have to really want to do it, but it's lonely and it's can be soul destroying, and people don't get it, and people don't realise how hard it is, and there are so many people that once you if if you're lucky enough to get it produced, someone on the day will say, I don't think I would my character would say this.

SPEAKER_02 34:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:20

And I'm just like you don't know anything about how hard it was to put this together and how long that writer probably struggled with getting that exactly right, the dialogue, the tempo, the kind of pacing, the difference between how people speak, um, the subtext in something. Um and it's just sometimes because it might be a hard, especially if the actor is hiding from something too, the ones that want to change it because they don't want to admit that to themselves. So it's a really but it's love that's why I love it. It's because that's what so makes it so juicy.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

But that's the that's the thing, it's the juiciness and the like I can't not do it. Like it's I will spend weeks just being like, oh, I should I should just go get a job, I don't care what one, I should just go get a job and give up on this and not do anything else, and then I'll get really funked out about it, and I'll be like, this is the shittest. And then all of a sudden I'll be like, but the character could get out of the situation like that, and I'll just start writing it. And it's like, I can't not. It's it's just you know, uh a creative person has to create, and if their output is that storytelling way, that's it. And when you mentioned writing like a novel, friends of mine who have written novels they have said to me, like, have you ever thought about it? And I was like, that that'd be offensive. I'm not a novelist. Like, that's not what I do. And they're like, Yeah, but you tell stories, I'm like, that's not what I do. I I tell it in a screenplay and in film, but I would never write a novel because that oh no. And it's that calling thing. It's like I can't write a book. I'm sure I could, but I can't write a book because it's just not in me. So I don't. Whereas other people, their day-to-day is I work so I can go on holiday and have a nice time, and that's what they're like, everything is focused on. I want it as easy as possible in my life, and sometimes are very jealous of that. I just think like, oh, that must be nice. That must be really nice, just cracking on with a day job.

SPEAKER_03 36:27

Yeah, I mean, I have thought that. I thought it'd be it would be kind of interesting to be stupid because you wouldn't mind, you know. Um, and there would be certain menial task jobs that you could get great satisfaction from because you weren't hoping for anything else and you weren't having an existential crisis. And you could do those very happily, leave and not have to think about them again, and um have a very sweet, nice life. But I feel at the same time being complicated, being um someone who's interested in the world and how it works and people and community and chaos, um yeah, means that you just have a different flavor to your life, but none of them are wrong. I mean, they're they're they're all they're all whatever you choose to make it. And I think as long as you don't beat yourself up too much, and um I like I think that what I like about writing, which I think in nowadays, because we're so obsessed with our phones, and as someone who is truly addicted to Instagram, you know, I know I am, I can't pretend otherwise. Uh, is that if you're working on a story or you're thinking about a character and you are there's a problem you have to solve, or you're thinking about the next thing that's gonna happen because of what's what's happening with them inside them, you know, starting from character, is it means that you don't reach for your phone. You're actually away in this world creating, making this character, they could do that, and they could, and that freedom from just watching in the kind of like a switched-off drone-like existence of just the the scroll. I mean, just uh spend five minutes thinking about a story would and I think this thing that's the thing you only need to sit down for five, and then if you get into it, then you'll be there for an hour in the flow.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

Yeah, and a friend wanted to start writing a novel recently, and I I was very much like, don't feel bad if you don't have anything to write. Just because if it's not there, it's not there. Like, don't force it. You know, my dad has this great sort of saying about creativity um a mouse in a mouse hole. You can look at that mouse hole all day, but the mouse won't poke his head out. And then one day you'll be doing something else, and at the corner of your eye, you'll see the mouse stick his head out, and that's creativity. You have to crack on, you have to keep going, and you have to like one like one day that idea will just go, there it is, and then you'll spend three days straight just typing away. And I was saying to him, like, don't I know some people subscribe to that 5,000 words a day or whatever it is, and it's like that's a good way to get in the habit of typing every day, but that doesn't necessarily mean like you have to come up with creative, good ideas every day. Like, I've got ideas that I've gone, oh, ooh, yeah, and then I've written it down in a notebook, and that's 10 years old, that idea. And I'll come back to it one day, but it's you just gotta let it that creativity just gotta appear, and then you just gotta be like, I'll act on it now. But otherwise, if you beat yourself up with like, no, I I should be why haven't I written? Why haven't I written my thing? Why haven't I not made my masterpiece yet? And it's like you're not doing anything. That's probably not helping. Like if if you go live a life, writing things becomes a bit easier, but also you're not letting it germinate, you're not letting it build, you're not letting that idea flow naturally, you're forcing it, and it just doesn't work.

SPEAKER_03 40:09

I think the shoulds, it's like you've got the bad case of the shoulds, and um, that actually doesn't help anybody. Um you get to, I choose to write, I choose to write, I choose to tell this story, I get to share my ideas with the world, and that reframe of it, and also just on the days when you don't feel inspired, you can still write about the fact that you don't feel very inspired today, and you in writing that you don't feel very inspired today, you're getting better at typing, you know. You're still thinking about why you're not very inspired, you're still using language. And I think the other thing to do is when you're really, especially if you're writing a novel, is to read other people's work. There is you need to be reading if you're a novelist. Um, and I say to screenwriters a lot as well, you should read other people's screenplays, not to steal their ideas, but to understand.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

Mat people who when they say sort of like, oh, I want to write a screenplay, I'm like, oh, what's your favourite like screenplay? And they're like, Oh, I've never read one. And it's like, then why the fuck do you think you can write one? Like that doesn't make sense. Read fucking screenplays, man. Just and read them while watching the film and see how they've differed, see how they've like distanced themselves, seeing how that character isn't reading it how you've read it, and do all of that, and then go like, oh, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 41:31

That's such a great learning tool. That is that it's a very simple one, but I think people don't do it enough and just really, especially if it's a film that you have studied and loved and it really connects with you, to get underneath why and to look at the writing and then see how much has changed in performance. And I also kind of feel that writers I like actors that turn into writers because they write characters very well, because they understand how how um how that process works, where sometimes screenwriters will are writing to plot rather than character, and so they make their characters do weird things, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:10

They make no sense, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:11

Yeah, like I don't know if they do that after that way, and um we in it's just what is that motivation, which sounds like a wanky word, but it is that you know, there's even if it's not conscious, there's a reason why we do the next thing and the next thing and the next thing and the next thing, and then if you can make it so it feels obvious but quirky and magical or different or um enlightening, then we'll get it because that's the trouble. If we're just speaking to each other, we're just trying to find each other, say, do you think the same way as I do about this? You know, what do you think about that? That's what filmmakers are doing, that's what storytellers are doing. Um, I think this, what do you think? Just try to open up um a dialogue and a conversation, even if they never actually speak to the person, it is still asking a question.

SPEAKER_00 43:01

So I think that leads us quite nicely into how long ago did you set up the ISA and you know what kind of works are you doing?

SPEAKER_03 43:09

Well, I actually only work for the ISA. The ISA is the International Screenwriters Association, um, and that was set up, it's 18 years old, that baby. Um and it was started by Craig James Petroviac, and basically he moved from Chicago to LA and he was an actor, and he just kept realizing that he was getting ripped off everywhere he went. So, you know, all the classes were too expensive. People they said, I'll help you with your screenplay, weren't qualified. So he said, I'll just build a website. I'll build a website, and all the resources I have found that are good, I'll put on there. And that's how it started. And about 12 years ago, I was in my I'm moving to LA because they need a British Merrill Streep and uh phase. And I'd been doing some acting, but I hadn't been earning any money, and then I met Craig. At a screening of her a mutual friends uh quite awful horror movie.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

Do you want to name it?

SPEAKER_03 44:09

No. Um I actually can't even remember. There was just a very bad sex scene on a very on a on a hospital bed, like a silver in a disab an abandoned kind of hospital. A very awkward sex scene on one of those metal beds, and it kind of has stuck with me. Anyway, so we met there and he said, Well, I'm going to Sundance and I'm doing a table read. We have a contest in my company and we're doing a table read looking for actors. So myself and my boyfriend at the time went, Yeah, we'll come and do that. Now, but that's how it started with me. Um, and that was 12 and a half years ago. But I've always been the kind of person that goes, Oh, I've got a few ideas. So um at first I started working on the table reading, I started organizing it. And then I worked with the writers of the winning uh contest. So if there's a selection of contests they have, and it's really for the ISA to be able to find amazing writers because actually it's quite hard to find new people and to then help them build community and try and get them out into the world. And so myself and my colleague at the time, Max Tim, decided to do this thing called the development slate. And I started looking for female writers, that's where I began because it seemed like there were a lot of um men that were winning contests, and they actually even submission numbers were low from women. So I wanted to make the ISA a safe place so that female writers could understand that this is, you know, if you submit here, it's a really fair group of readers. We're gonna consider everybody. And I just started finding people that I thought they've got something special, and even if they're not quite ready yet, how can we help them be readier? How can I become a conduit to the industry which feels so far away? And then how can we really help them help themselves? Because ultimately it's your career. There's it doesn't matter. Everyone's like, when I've got a manager, everything will change.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:05

Oh, good luck with that.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

And unfortunately, they don't do shit all for you, really.

SPEAKER_03 46:10

Well, unfortunately, at the beginning, there's a massive scattergun approach where they introduce you to everyone they know. And if if something hits with that, then you're off to the races. But if nothing hits with that, then you won't hear anything again. And then about six months later, you'll have to go to them and say, like, how am I doing? And they'll go, like, oh, oh, you, oh yeah. Um, let me just see what we can do. And they might do another version of that. But that's the thing. Don't hand over your career to a manager or an agent or anyone else. This is your career, it's your journey, it's your life. What can you do to make sure that you are in charge of it? And I think creatives are always made to feel that somehow we should be grateful for having a manager or an agent or someone in your corner. Whereas actually they don't make the thing you do. And really, you're employing them, but somehow this kind of we've been made to feel it's completely the other way around. So I'm always like, get yourself out there, build what you can, do as much as you can to work on your writer's resume. If you are a writer director, make some stuff. And then if you do start entering contests, or you start entering fellowships, or you get yourself in a film community, and or you know, you are a veteran, or you have some kind of other way to be found, um, then the right person will come to you. And then even then, remember it's a 90-10 split. They get 10% of your wages, you get 90%. Um, so that's that's the work ratio as well. So you have to remember that. So they won't get paid unless you're working, so they might fire you if you're not working, because if they're getting work out there and you're not getting the interview, you know, you're going in for the general meeting and you keep blowing it, then it doesn't make sense. Yeah. It is a transactional thing.

SPEAKER_00 48:01

Yeah, I remember someone said to me, um, you'll get an agent when you don't need one. Like, that's like they they won't they don't want you while you're when you when you think you need one, they won't want you. And then if you're doing enough work that they want to get part of a taste of what you're making, you don't need one then. So if that's the case, don't get one.

SPEAKER_03 48:26

Well, I would say it's better not to have one than to have a bad one.

SPEAKER_01 48:30

Hmm.

SPEAKER_03 48:31

Um and I think that's the thing, is like, and don't ever rest on your laurels, even if you do get a manager. And the thing that you can uh it's different in the states uh than it is in the UK. In the states, a manager doesn't have to have um it they can anyone could be a manager, whereas an agent you have to be accredited and you have to be signed up, and there's a whole kind of like association you have to join with.

SPEAKER_02 48:54

Right.

SPEAKER_03 48:54

Managers shape your career, an agent actually does the deals for you, and that's how it works in the in the US. I think in the UK the agent-manager thing is a bit more wrapped up and they do everything for you here. Um but I think really it's just understand that you are always gonna have to do the work, whether you have an agent or a manager or not. But what they can do is they can get you into some rooms that maybe you can't get into by yourself.

SPEAKER_00 49:17

That's true, and also probably get you 10% more money than you're expecting because they want their cup bigger.

SPEAKER_03 49:24

Yeah, they can kind of they can be a bit of a um a bunny boiler or you know, a baller.

SPEAKER_00 49:30

Well, I've I've having dealt with a few people's agents, it's very interesting seeing how certain agents will get more for some people. And I I was working on a project and one person's agent was just like, Well, you need them for X amount of days, this is the rate. And then the other person's agent was saying, like, well, you need them for X amount of days, but they're dra travelling a half day, so they want another half day's rate coming up, and then because you're taking over most of their working week, you may as well take you gotta take them for the whole week because they can't get another day here, and you're just like, Alright, alright, like let's let's work it out. And for essentially what is the same workload, one of them got more money, and I was just like, Well done, yeah. Like it's it's it's well played. I don't I'm not I'm not I like the actor, so I'm not gonna say no. I want them, but yeah. I feel like I should tell the other actor, like, sort your sort your agent out.

SPEAKER_03 50:26

I know, I mean, like, how do you let them know that without letting them know that afterwards? Yeah, yeah, but I I feel like you know having someone in your corner because negotiating those kind of deals is hard. Um, but but and in the UK anyway, I do have my own company, um, and I have come back to that, and that is Unrestricted View. And we started that, my ex-husband and I, in 1997. And so we're coming up for our 30-year anniversary next year of running our company. And we started by running the Henna Chickens Theatre in 1999, um, and then we branched out to Unrestricted View Film Festival in 2016, and we have three film festivals annually. One of them is Biffra Accredited and the Horror One. So we have one in January, which is an LGBQ TIA one in January, and then we have All Genre Festival in May, and then we have the Horror Festival in October. Yeah, and um, the All Genre Festival is Biffra Accredited, and then we're so excited this October for our horror festival. Biffa has asked to if they can be part of it, and actually shows their shorts from past um Biffa films, Biffa winners. So that feels really nice. It feels like they're kind of saying, Okay, well, you've been around for 11 years now.

SPEAKER_02 51:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:46

Um, you you're we've got some very nice reviews on Film Freeway, and uh again, it's just I I love community, so I guess that's what I built at the ISA, and it's also something we'd already started to do with Unrestricted View, which was like make a theatre space that was really for creative people, that you could earn some money, you could make some mistakes.

SPEAKER_00 52:07

Imagine that. I know earning some money, yeah. Um I will say I didn't know that you were Unrestricted View. Uh-huh and uh my film got rejected by you.

unknown 52:18

Oh that's fine.

SPEAKER_00 52:22

I won't add that in.

SPEAKER_03 52:23

Oh my god, that's funny. Uh to be honest with you, was it this genre one this year?

SPEAKER_00 52:28

It no, it was the um what it was in the genre one in 2024.

SPEAKER_03 52:34

24. I'll have to look you up. That's funny. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 52:39

Oh, don't worry about that. I used to take not winning, uh not winning, but not uh being accepted into festivals as a very personal statement on my film until I started uh attending more festivals, and you realise that well actually sometimes it's got nothing to do with the quality of the film, it's just they see a trend that works and they're like, Oh, for a program this works. So we'll do films that are about female revenge, and we've got enough of them that we could do that as our general theme. So this one doesn't quite work and it doesn't get in, or it's simply as uh one of the few people were like, I really like it, and the song goes, I don't like it, and they're like, Alright, like it's there's it's completely not a personal decision like to to accept or like withdraw a film. You just go on like, well, it was good, it wasn't as good as something else we got, or we just it just doesn't work for us. And yeah, when I figured that out, I was like, Oh, okay, my film's amazing and everyone just doesn't get it.

SPEAKER_03 53:40

I feel like I mean, this this old Sean one we had, we had 600 submissions and we only showed 78 movies, so that's a lot of people to say no to. Yes, and I think you're absolutely right. There is there are trends, there's also a style. You know, certain festivals always have a taste and a niche and a kind of um uh they reflect the people that run the festival, even though we have a whole big paid group of programmers that watch all the movies, and we make sure that everything is watched twice, that's part of our agreement.

SPEAKER_00 54:12

Very nice.

SPEAKER_03 54:13

Um, but there is a you can't help it, there's a flavor, everything has a flavor, and that's why I think it's really great for all filmmakers and actually necessary to do their research and go, okay, would my film be a likely pick for this festival? And there are some that it's just no point spending the money, and others that you know that they get too many submissions and they don't have enough time to watch them, and that those ones you have to be careful with. Um, and I think it's really about okay, where would be really fun to go as well? I think going to the festival, making those friends, and actually if you don't intend on going, that don't submit.

SPEAKER_00 54:53

Yeah, because there's no point.

SPEAKER_03 54:55

Oh, one sec. Oh god. My cat was just like, what the fuck is that? Staring at it.

SPEAKER_00 55:02

I was like, Is that who you you you're giving your cat the thumbs up just then?

SPEAKER_03 55:08

It was just staring at all. You're okay. What the hell is that? I'm like, I'm with you, babe.

SPEAKER_00 55:13

In this heat, you're gonna make me listen to that?

SPEAKER_03 55:15

I know. It was like a quite a long one, wasn't it? That's a test, yeah. Quite a long one.

SPEAKER_00 55:21

So why what where where do you live that they're doing a test? What is going on in your house?

SPEAKER_03 55:32

Like the halls of residence, yeah, even a student.

SPEAKER_00 55:35

Um good old Friday fire alarm. Never miss it. Make sure I'm in for it.

SPEAKER_03 55:43

For that lovely dance.

SPEAKER_00 55:44

Yeah, exactly. So you can just see the cat being like yes. Yeah, you you you guys did come very highly rated though.

SPEAKER_03 55:56

Oh, thank you. Yeah, no, we again we're really I mean, the all genre festival, we had six venues. We did Every Man Islington, Every Man Islington, Everyman, uh King's Cross, uh, uh uh Screen on the Green. Oh, that's every man Islington, Screen on the Green, Lux and Dine Islington, Genesis, Hoxton, Curzon, and the Hen and Chickens. And that we're really trying to grow it. And and there is something amazing for a filmmaker to be able to see their film in a venue that they go and see theatrical releases in. It makes such a difference. I mean, I love the hen and chickens, it's our OG, and you know, we've been we've built our company from there, but and it's so sweet in that little in the little venue with the screen down, you know, it does feel like a little private cinema. But there is something about being in the Curse and Hoxton where you kind of get a drink from the bar before and go like go and see my, you know, gonna go. And we also try and do mixes, so there's always drinks, good, good, good, and a chance for you to meet each other and chat, and because that's what we want to do as well, is make friends um so that you then collaborate and you're next you can find someone else at the festival that you work with. And that was a nice thing about Tribeca, actually, when we did our pitch event there, is that even though a lot of people waited in line for a really long time to have a pitch um in front of myself and Shana, who also works at the ISA, I did get some email messages from people saying I stood in line, I pitched to the person I was next to. We had a great laugh, we went out for drinks. Thank you so much. I thought, well, then it didn't matter about us coming to pitch to us or whatnot.

SPEAKER_00 57:40

That's actually better. You're probably gonna work now. Just pitching it to a room would have meant nothing.

SPEAKER_03 57:46

Yeah, I mean, like they just were, they found someone and they were, oh, I like it where you think. Should we go and get a drink? And I just thought, well, that's it, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 57:53

Uh it's Daniel Clissman, uh, the writer I've I'm working with at the moment on a short. I met him in a queue in Austin for something else. I can't remember what it was. And that's the thing. I don't remember what it was that we were queuing up for, but I met him in the queue. Two years later, we're still messaging each other and we're working on a script. And it's like, yeah, that that that was clearly better than whatever the the thing I was doing was, you know. So it is about just getting out there and just chatting.

SPEAKER_03 58:21

Yeah, I agree. Sorry to interrupt you, but I think that's the that's why you should go to festivals even when you don't have a film in them. If you are if it's something you'd like to go to in the future, if it's a festival that you're kind of scoping out, even if you go for one day, go and look at where the how the venue is. Go and if they've got an opening night party, go to that if you can. Um, because especially the smaller ones, if it's in a bar, um, go scope it out and meet some other people. I actually, this is my second time in Cannes here, and uh Cannes is a very friendly festival, but there's also there are WhatsApp groups that you kind of want to get on, even though oh my god, I have to silence my phone when I was there because there'd be 150 messages from people just all chatting. But they were like, I've got an extra ticket for this, or someone's going here, and that if again, if you're trying to find community or if you're trying to meet some other people, or if you've gone to Cannes by yourself, you've gone to a film festival by yourself, you don't know anyone. Um, it's a way to kind of and I think actually that's probably a good idea. I'm just thinking I probably will create a WhatsApp group for the Unrestrictive You Horror Film Festival so that all the filmmakers can talk to each other and I think that is the better one.

SPEAKER_00 59:32

The better way to do it is that you encourage conversation between the filmmakers because that's that's where the film's gonna get made. You can show you get the audience like get them drummed up for it, because that's great, but that's not gonna encourage more work between people. If you get a writer from this and a producer from that, or an actor from this and a director from that, and just get them together, something might happen. The worst is when it's just a room of directors, because then it's like well, none of you are gonna fucking produce my film, are you?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:03

Well, I feel like it's the same with comedians, like a room of comedians, and then no one's laughing at the jokes.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:09

Were you an angel uh resident for a while? Because obviously, if you're doing Screen in the Green, your theatre, like that's all angel, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:19

Yeah, hi, Bruin Islington. Um, I was actually uh I lived near Caledonian Road, so I could walk to the in 20 minutes. Uh just off the North Road. Uh, you know, there's that Pleasants Theatre at the back there?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:34

By the tube. Just there on the little street street.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:37

I I lived on Cali Road.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:42

Oh, I mean, I actually moved there because when they were building the Channel Tunnel in 2005, and it was uh I was just kind of like, if this happens, then the idea of being able to go one stop to King's Cross and then to Paris.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:57

Straight in. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:59

And also I wanted to live somewhere after living in Highgate, and then I lived in Bloomsbury for a bit, which I absolutely loved. Oh my god, living there was amazing. Anyone would come into town, there'd be like 10 p.m. and say, Do you want to drink? I'll be like, Yeah, I'll be there in a minute, you know, a good walk there was so that was my favourite. Um, but then I thought Caledonian Road or kind of near there is uh still walkable on New Year's Eve, which is one of the things also I was thinking about because trying to get home on some of those nights when it was late and just thinking, oh God, you know, a cab. We lived south of a river when I was married, and oh my goodness, trying to get a cab there was just horrific. Um so never again there. But uh, but uh yeah, I enjoyed living there, but it was a bit rough, right? Were you near the prison?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:47

Uh yes, I was um I was in that's where I was. I mean it was a ladies' prison. Lucky me. No, I don't know why that would be lucky at all. Um no, I was uh like Holloway Road, end of uh Cali Road, and because I went to uni at London met so I lived on Cali Road and just walked over every day, and uh yeah, like it was kind of rough, but then I moved to Tottenham and found out what rough really was.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:20

Yeah, I was gonna say actually that's a nicer end. I quite like Callie Road because it's got it's such a mishmash of all sorts of things, but it feels very friendly and neighbourhoody and um and I think Cali Road just has got a dodgy bit in the middle and then gets really nice again. Now it's been gentrified towards King's Cross.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:42

Um but again I like living there. I mean, I just couldn't when I moved back from LA, there's nowhere I'd move back to London just because unless I was live, you know, absolutely loaded and living somewhere like Belsize Park or something. But even then, when I was in La It's like the I call it the land of sharp elbows because it feels like everyone else and no one gets out of your way on this on the street. And I've lived in LA for 15 years where no one else walks, so I'd be completely alone walking on the dream, taking up all the all the pavement. Yeah, so um now it's just uh but I like to go in, you know what I mean? I still love the buzz of it, yeah, like the excitement of London. It does feel like all possibilities are open and you something amazing is always on the edge of happening, and I've always had this buzz of in my tummy of excitement about London and New York, like we were talking about earlier. Those two places that the the I really do get my juices going. I feel excited and alive, and you know, it's good to be here and alive and on the planet.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:48

That's a very lovely phenomenon. It's very nice. Um, yes, there is something about London. Uh it's also very nice that my brother mentioned a writing, I think it was like a writer's conference uh in July, the 12th of July. And uh he was sort of saying, like, oh, should we just go to it? My brother, my buddy's like organizing it so we could just go, and it was just like, yeah, where is it? And it's like it's at the BFI. It's like, yeah, cool. Like that sounds like such a lovely go to the BFI, go to this conference, buy some fancy films, go home. Perfect.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:23

I love the BFI.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:25

Oh, love it. I used to live um Lambeth North, so just around the corner from it, and it was that was nice.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:30

Yeah, so nice. And I think it I love the different areas in that building. Yeah, and it has a uh a quality of it that's kind of respectful to film, and at the same time it's not too pretentious, you know, it hasn't disappeared up its own backside, um, but it does feel that it does really care about it, and there's a great honouring of film.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:57

Yes. I did uh when I was doing film journalism you with for the VFI Film Festival, you just would get put into like NFT one or two, no two, and you would just sit and watch films all day, and it was lovely.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:11

Yeah, yeah. I can imagine that you wouldn't like that very much.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:16

I would, I did. Dark room in the summer, lovely. But yeah, um, we should get into the questions proper.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:27

So um you haven't uh mentioned too many films in our in our chats. So it is it's gonna be interesting to see what these choices are. But uh what was the first film that you saw at the cinema?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:44

I was thinking about this because um I'm gonna it's gonna really give away my age, which is kind of hilarious and and funny at the same time, but um but at the same time when I looked up when this film first came out. I promise I wasn't alive. It was 1942.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:03

You look great for it.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:05

My dad was born in 1940, so I'd have been I'd have been a miracle, yeah. Um so anyway, it was Bambi is the first movie I remember seeing. Oh as a child. And the animated version of it. And I remember sitting there with my mum and my younger sister and me in the middle of the two of them. And I know my dad was probably there, but I just don't remember him being there. Um, and of course, it was the moment when Bambi's mother is killed that alerted me to the idea that one day my mother might die.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:42

Um what a time to be alive.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:45

Just and being four years old. And I remember just because it also um I can kind of still remember I can I can have the vision of it in my head, you know, in that of that moment, and just kind of turning to my mum, and just I think I just went, woo, you know, just like I'm sure there were a lot of tears.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:07

No one's gonna shoot you.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:11

I think there were a lot of tears on in that in the cinema on that moment. Um because it well, one, it's a very, very sad, poignant moment, and then two, there are a lot of little kitties in that in that room that day. Um, so I think that's kind of like that. It's definitely the first movie that I went to see, and it's really was ingrained, and I'm sure my mum and dad were like, oh god, we should have uh I guess you just didn't know what it was going to be about before you went back then.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:42

So we should have had a harder kid, is what we should have had.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:46

It was the 70s, what can I say? Um, so it was very moving, but it's also something because I remember Thumper, um, one of the characters in Bambi the Rabbit, um, had a catchphrase that said, if you ain't got nothing nice to say, don't say nothing. And that did become a kind of phrase of my childhood that was kind of scooped from that, from that movie. Um, and I think probably was a good learning. If there's a learning point to be had from that, it's just like you haven't got nothing else to. And I haven't always I haven't always lived by that. And it's but it is why I am one of these people that if I'm ever saying bad anything bad about anyone, even if they're in another country, they will have flown back, got off a plane, and be standing behind me as I say it. You know what I mean? I am just that person. I I I shouldn't ever say bad things about anybody because for some reason they always show up just as I'm doing it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:46

Mine is whoever I'm texting to be like, oh, for fuck's sake, this person. I know my brain has sabotaged me to go, you mean text it to that person exactly, right? And it's like, no, brain, don't do that. And it's like, well, when you hit send, I'll tell you who you sent it to. And it's like, oh thanks, brain, yeah, great. So yeah. It's like a lottery. It really is. Like, I'm gonna be a dickhead to you. And that's no, it's in the the if you haven't got anything nice to say, I have a similar one, but from Boys in the Hood, uh, which is he ain't fucking with you, so don't fuck with him. Oh and that to me, I watched that film a bit younger than I should have. And uh I I was very much like, yeah, yeah, if no one's fucking with you, just don't fuck with them, just leave them alone. And I agree with it. I think it's the same sentiment.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:32

I think so too. I mean it's all about saying something nice, but um but yeah, I think letting people have their own autonomy um is actually probably the kindest thing you can do for them and yourself. Yeah. Where they're at.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:50

It it annoys me when I get annoyed about something, you know, when I realise like I'm getting annoyed about something someone else has said and done that I have no I can't change that. So why the fuck does it matter? Like just let it go, and then I'll go tell my therapist all right for about three hours, and then you can let it then he can go on holiday and have a lovely time.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:12

So that person has helped your therapist have a lovely holiday. That's really nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:16

Oh, big money, big money that person. Big money. Uh, but hey, I'm I'm I'm keeping the economy running. That's that's how I see it. Um okay, nice, nice, nice, nice. And you went with your sister. Were you a cinema going family?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:32

Uh not really. Um because it was the 70s. Uh so there was a lot of hand-me-downs. So I kind of got clothes from my cousins, and we went out for dinner on our birthdays, you know, with this idea of eating out all the time, and you know, and coffee shops on the go didn't exist. It was a different time. So even going to the cinema, although it wasn't that expensive, still a treat. Was still a treat. But I do remember actually that we did used to go on Saturday afternoons. God, this has just popped up as a memory. Um, so maybe we're more than I'm now giving my parents credit for. And there was a short little kind of film that ran alongside the main the main film, which I can't remember any of those. And it was a thing called Chico Chico the Rainmaker. And it's kind of some like like I think shrunken head, kind of Amazonian, weird.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:38

But it was a short Disney, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:40

Was it? I think so. I mean, I I really want to look it up now, but I mean, like it's it's um, but it was I just remember it being very odd.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:57

No, it wasn't. The boy with two heads. Oh, it was a seven-part children's television series.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:08

Yeah, Chico Chico the Raymaker, 1974 film. Uh Jonathan Ingram's.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:17

Yeah, I mean Leslie Ash. Come on. Eh?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:22

But I'm trying to think what it was an antique shop that contains an eerie shrunken head. So shrunken head was still in there. Um tribal witchdogger from the jungles of the Amazon. See, I did remember some of it. I mean, it really is quite uh uh, but that is the thing that stuck in my mind.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:39

I'm gonna have to track this down.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:43

So we did used to go more than I thought, I think, actually. But um I think that's like everything. They're giving you everything as a child, and you're so ungrateful.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:51

Don't we don't? Oh yeah. And that's fuck them. Yeah. You want to try hard? Joke's on you. Um so where where were you? Uh where did you grow up? Uh like which what was the local cinema? What was the was there a brand? Was it a little local place? What was the deal?

SPEAKER_03 1:13:11

Uh I grew up in Leon Sea in Essex. Um, and I seem to remember this was like the South End Odeon or something like that. Um so it was a bit of a like a journey to get there in the car, and then um, but it was a I do remember they had maybe it was Saturday morning, Saturday morning screenings. Um, but I can't if it was only a seven-part series, I don't quite understand how I seem to remember that was before every film. But anyway, um, but it was like a local little cinema and it was a fun thing to do, but we mean we really did everything, you know. We used to go swimming. I remember eating chips after swimming. It was I had a very nice childhood, you know. They really did look after us. They just the only thing they did do that was wrong was showing me Bambi age four.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:59

There we go. Well, we won't we won't dig any deeper into this. Come on. I don't I don't want to see any money away from your therapist. Um obviously, growing up in the 70s, there is uh less of a chance of being able to watch things over and over again. I guess you could only really watch things that were on telly, but was there anything that you watched over and over again?

SPEAKER_03 1:14:21

Um I was thinking about this and chitty chitty bang bang, actually. Um makes sense because it seemed to be something that was shown a lot during Christmas Christmas time, it kind of like you know would kind of appear back at Christmas time. Um and I'm I'm a massive fan of Dick Van Dyke. I think he is um an incredible human and uh I mean can do everything when you think about his show, the Vic Dan Vic Dick Van Dyke show, back in the 60s, I guess, in America.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:58

And I mean he's just done so much, and um so he can't do a cockney accent.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:07

That's but that's it. He can do everything else, but even that somehow he's charming in it, you know what I mean? Yes, he has a way of getting away with things because I think he just is a genuinely delightful human. When you kind of hear him ever interviewed or um because he's a hundred now, so I yeah, still going.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:30

Still going, still still still tap dancing, he loves it.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:34

And I think uh he stands for something uh of that kind of vaudeville, all singing, all dancing American showman.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:45

Like I that's what I love about that montage at the beginning of um singing in the rain when it's you know dignity always dignity and they're just like doing vaudeville stuff. I just thought like that's you don't get that anymore. You don't get those people that are they have to perform and they can sing, they can dance, they can be dramatic, they can do whatever it needs to be to be on that stage. I don't think you get performers like that anymore. I think a lot more people now just hone it to a very specific, like, no no no, I just do this. That's that, and I'll do it on TikTok.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:21

I feel like a lot of actors are triple and quadruple threats, it's just whether or not they get the opportunity of showing it.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:28

Fair, fair, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:30

Um, but those big set numbers that used to be part of movie making industry in massive studios with all those expos and all those dances and all that um uh theatricality that's also part of the movies. There is something so magical about that that is, it seems so hopeful and naive and sweet. And and I think that's probably why I like this movie too, is because it's about family and you know someone trying to be an inventor, trying to be an entrepreneur, yeah, not following the norm, being a bit different, uh, still a really great relationship with his dad. And I I and I kind of identified with the kids and wanting to be truly scrumptious. Um, I mean, who doesn't want to be truly scrumptious? And she, you know, she was this vision in Chiffon, and I lived by the sea, and there's that big scene where the the car gets stuck in the sand and the water comes in and then it turns into a boat, and all this kind of use of imagination and fantasy and um and problem solving um into magic, it kind of just really appealed to me, and it's something that there's always something new to spot, I think, when you watch this movie. You know, there's another thing to really uh understand, or see that there's a little in-joke, or see the director putting something in there, or a really great bit of performance. I mean, the woman that played Truly Scrumptious, who then because there's the moment where they're in the in the castle, in the King's Castle, and they have to go and rescue all the children, and she's playing a marionette on a musical box. And that, I mean, I don't know how long they shot that sequence for, where that is her and um and Dick Van Dyke, Sally Ann Howes, and Dick Van Dyke kind of doing this kind of like robotic moments and all on this dance, and the child catcher. I also like the fact that the um the villains are truly scary. So even though it's kind of a movie, they didn't sugarcoat it, you know, it was a very frightening person.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:49

Yeah, I think the one one of the problems that they try and humanize villains now to understand their arc, why they became I don't need to know, it's much scarier, having no idea why they're just like funny games, Hanukkah's funny games, it's just like, why are these dickheads doing this? That's what's so horrible about it, they're just doing it, and it's like, oh, that's horrible, you know, and it's just that's scary. Like, if I'm told, like, well, the childcatcher had a had a poor childhood, it's like, and he's and he's just jealous of that, and it's like, eh.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:21

He just likes wearing black and growing its hair long.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:24

Hey, come on. Like, I had to get a haircut the other day.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:27

Like you do not look like the child catcher, unless you've got like a a wagon just downstairs that you know you can pull the lever and the sides fall off and it's a cage. I just remember that so much, and they were like, sweets, bring the sweets, and I was like, ah! You know, because also I was a kid, so sweets were my favourite.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:49

They're the best. Yeah. Um, I did recently sell a truck, but there was no cage in it. So let's just put it like that. Okay, that's good to know. Okay. And I got an electric vehicle, you know. I'm being I'm the opposite now.

unknown 1:20:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:02

Yeah. Not a truck guy with a cage.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:06

Well, I mean I'm sure your whole street is happier too.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:10

I don't know. I don't know. Some of the kids down here I think they could do with being stolen, taken away to much nicer places. Um, so were your parents uh creatives?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:24

Were they no, not at all. Um my mum was uh a secretary. Um she was extremely bright. Um and so she kind of did she excelled in all her kind of like uh O levels and A levels and um went to work in London. Uh but it was the 60s, so she there were only so many opportunities that were afforded to her. And then also on her 19th birthday, her parents gave her a suitcase and said she had to move out.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:58

So um very lovely.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:02

Well, at 19, she's a spinster. You know, I can't be looking after a spinster. Come on.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:06

Well, I think when I think about it now and how babied we all are um with our you know, looked after, and she really was flung into the world.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:16

Um and so she when you see what 36 years like Tony Soprano was younger than me in the first series of Sopranos, and I'm just like, but I I still wear crocs. What do you want about? Like I I I can't I can't wear chinos and a shirt and go and crack on with work. I'm I'm a I'm a boy, you know, and it's just like no no no, you should be an adult like this man, and it's like, oh yeah, I think there is a bit of a well there is a bit of babying, but then there's also things don't cost the same, you know? It's not I don't think being able to buy a house and being forced to be an adult is as easy as it used to be.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:59

That's true. I mean, I I I mean she didn't it was back in the 60s, so again she couldn't have a bank account on her own, which you know, so she actually had to move into um my dad's family's house and stuff. So like it it wasn't it was not an easy time, is what I'm saying. So I think it kind of stunted any other massive other career she might have had, and then at 24 she had me. So um and and then just only worked part-time after that. My dad was an electrical engineer, so he isn't um creative, but he does, he is an incredible draw, you know, artist for technical drawings, and um and he can uh create buildings, which is kind of amazing, and like working out where the electric is going to go and how it's gonna um so he's got an eye in that, but no, I think the I think my sister and I were we are we're the generation where parents started treating their children really well. So we went to drama, ballet, uh horse riding, singing lessons, uh swimming at the weekends. It seems I went to the cinema every week. Um so it you know, all this other stuff were was happening to give us a rich creative life. And so um at seven, when we went to a drama club, that's when I decided to pursue a couple of years.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:21

Is your sister also a show pony like yourself?

SPEAKER_03 1:23:24

Show pony. Uh yeah, she loves dressage.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:27

Um well um just that that step.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:30

Yeah, she likes to trot. Um no, she's uh she did actually work in the creative industry. She was a stylist for a long time, so she did like Jude Law and bands um uh back in the 2000s. Um, you know, uh oh god.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:48

I didn't back when there was money.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:51

Well, yeah, I mean like back when they I think it's before it was a new job choosing how someone how a band looked, you know what I mean, and what the kind of style was and and what they were like presenting to the world. And she was really big friends with Jason Orange from Take That and she was up in this in London a lot and was kind of very much part of that scene. And we did all do our acting together, but then she went to the grammar school and and had a kind of quite more serious education and then went and did did that. And I did not go to the grammar school, I went to the secondary bond school, but that's where I met someone who made me Lady Macbeth at the age of 15. So that's that's you know, then I was like, oh, power, earrings, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:36

Um please and thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:38

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it so then it became words, became my thing. So uh I think basically we are the product of liberal parents that allowed us to have a choice and not just follow the norm and things that they couldn't. So I'm very grateful for that.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:57

I always find it funny when um I too have very liberal parents. Uh shock surprise. And when you have liberal parents, the way that you rebel is you go work in finance. Uh you just and it's it's the worst. I can't rebel in the same way because my parents have done it. So I had to go get a real job, and it was miserable.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:19

Yeah. Yeah. I'm very grateful that I've never I have had a real job. I worked in an advertising agency for a couple of years.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:27

Okay. I would even say that's still not quite a real job because the ad agency, there's still that creative element that is inherently more fun, but it is you know, veering into. Yeah. Was it one of the bigger agencies?

SPEAKER_03 1:25:44

Uh it was called Archibald Ingalls Treton. Um, and they had like some really big companies like British Gas and stuff, and uh award winning.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:54

I don't uh I was gonna say I know the name, I can't.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:57

I think I know that my boss was John, who's one of the partners, and um he sold his shares and went and lived in Corsica. When you know what I mean, and just like had this lovely life and as a lovely wife and as a really nice so I kind of feel like that that's good, you know what I mean? Did this amazing creative job, really enjoyed doing it for when he did, and then when he didn't want to do it anymore, we did something more interesting instead. And I think that's that's what we're all trying to do, right? Um totally. But I I started working there as a temp because I was gonna be an actor. Again, this is like they've had these times when I'm like, I'm gonna give it a real go. So I started working there as a temp. They said, Can you work the phones? I said, Of course I can, had no clue, and just put them all on my level. So I just put all the phones that were like sent to the executives, the owners of the company, and the head of finance going, Hello, Archibald Ingus Breton. And I'm like, sorry, sorry. It's just gone. I didn't and then someone I missed that one. And then the next day they said, Well, we're not going to put you on the phones anymore, but can you do this data entry? And I was like, Okay. And then that was I'd done it in the day, and they were like, You've how have you completed all the uh I obviously realized that no one was really working, but because I'd been working for myself, running the hen and chickens, and was yeah, uh being my own boss, I didn't realise that people in normal jobs don't do much work.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:16

Um and so that was one of the first things I learned. My boss said, like, slow it down, slow it down. And I'm like, but this is a day's work. They're like, that is a week's work, sir.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:28

If you work for yourself, you just work completely differently, you know, it's just such a different way of and so that on day three they offered me the office manager's role, and I stayed there for two and a half years doing that. So um I got a bit veered off again from doing the acting, um, but we had a mortgage to pay and uh had other concerns, so yeah. Um, but we were still running the Hen and Chickens Theatre and then we're still being creative, and it just meant that we could afford to live. Because honestly, running a fringe theatre is never gonna make you rich. You don't do it for the money.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:58

That is purely for the love. There is nothing else in there. Um Okay. I got no segue for the next question, so I'm just gonna shoe on it right in. Uh I hate that. What uh what was the first 18-rated film you saw? And how old were you? No, come on, I've got to think of a better way of segueing that. Come on.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:21

Um nothing. I was just gonna think if I could do something to help. I mean, what were we we just talking about?

SPEAKER_00 1:28:33

We were just talking about the um working at the ad agency, like um working hard.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:40

Oh, I mean, I guess it was like the I mean the movie I saw when I shouldn't have done was a was when I finished my exams. So we were having a girls' night. Um so I kind of think we were celebrating, finishing something, you know, before we were gonna go and do our A levels or go to work or whatever we're gonna do, we're gonna have this night night, and we're gonna take the summer off. We've all finished our exams and we're all really happy. And we got two movies. Um, and we were drinking wine, which you know, uh at 15. I know you're not allowed, but we were in we were supervised in some one of our Hey, blue nun, baby sham, it's all good. Yeah, I'm sure there was some lemonade as well, probably but wine with lemonade, let's be honest. Of course there was Camel Spritzer, yeah, and lots of ice because I like ice in my wine. I'm from Essex, and um so we got the champ, and we watched that, and that was kind of soppy, and I don't remember anything apart out about it, apart from that there was this shock of blonde hair, and then I fell in love with Robert Redford at other times in my life. So, um, and David Bowie. So there's a kind of there's a there's a hairstyle, it seems I like. But um also the person underneath it, not just the quite that shallow. And the second, so we're all like, oh, that's so sweet, and we're a little bit drunk, and we're all like, oh, we've got our own sands, and then we watch The Exorcist.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:00

Ah, perfect. Perfect.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:03

It slightly chilled the room.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:06

Yes, yes, I imagine. Especially after a little Redford magic, and then just Pazuzu just looking at you from the darkness.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:18

It was it was just I think because also I'm not I'd never been a horror person. That the closest I'd been to horror was Chico Chico the Rainmaker, which is this shrunken head in the Namaste Forest. I we didn't go and see horror movies, that isn't what my family did.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:35

And so we weren't a horror family.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:37

No, so suddenly to be in the situation where and the young girl in The Exorcist is amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:45

I mean, the how the director got that performance out of her, you know, uh it's incredible because you believe, I mean, I haven't seen it again. I don't I feel like I've never seen it again since, and I probably would will never because in a way it's it lives in its moment there, and and if it looked ridiculous now, then I might be sad for who I was then, or I don't know, it might confuse me, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:09

Don't don't rewatch it, don't go back.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:11

They don't need to re-watch it, but kind of watching her spin around and the moment where help me comes up on her tummy from inside.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:17

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:19

And that just I was absolutely we were all stone cold sober, and then like our parents came and picked us up, and we didn't stay the night, everyone just wanted to go home. And I remember I said, I think I just did Hail Mary full of grace throughout the night. And I remember like lying in my bed, and my bed was the duvet cover was pink with white hearts, and the wallpaper was white with pink hearts. I think that kind of tells you.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:44

Yeah, it says a lot.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:45

Yeah, and I was lying under the duvet with it up to my chin, with my parents going, like, oh, you seem quite quiet. I was like, Yeah, because we didn't want to admit what we'd watched. No, we couldn't tell them that we'd had this, you know, that was a secret. Um, and because they had been annoyed that we'd watched it. And I just remember saying my prayers because I was raised a Catholic, so even I I knew them. I knew my prayers. So I just laid there and I remember that my reciting your Roman rituals.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:17

The eyes being scratchy, you know, like because when the when the light changes, and yeah, it's almost like the T the old TVs when the when they used to switch off and it was like behazed. Yeah, it felt like that. And me just saying my prayers, trying not to be possessed by a demon. You know.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:36

Yeah, that's spot on. That's that's uh it's so weird how that film like my mum once thought I saw it because my brother joked and said, like, oh Ted's watched the Exorcist, and she stopped where she was and went, You haven't, have you? And I was like, No, I haven't, like, chill out, man. And I didn't watch it for years. Like, I didn't watch it until I was probably in my twenties. And I thought, like, I haven't seen it, I'll read it first. So I read it first. The book is beautiful. I'd r recommend reading the book. But then I watched the film, and because I had only ever heard of it as the scariest, the most whatever, when I watched it, I was like, Yeah, it's fine. You know what I mean? And I missed out. I didn't get to have the same shock that everyone else got because I I watched it 20 years too late. I read the book, so I knew what was coming, and it was all just like, ah. So I'm really jealous when people are, you know, they have these memories of the Exorcist. So when I say like don't re-watch it, it's like it's done exactly what it needs to do. So don't don't go back. It's not a bad film. Billy Friedkin's amazing filmmaker, but it's don't don't don't ruin that magic for you, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:49

Yeah, I mean, it's it's definitely a core memory that's been burned into my psyche. Um and it is probably a coming of age moment of and I think I really kind of avoided horror for quite a long time afterwards since. Whereas now, actually, um it's such a evergreen genre in my industry that I'm always reading horror scripts, and the thing I'm trying to find though is the one that really shines, is elevated, has a story in a original way, can really make you feel something in a fresh way because it's yeah, I think there's something to be said for tropes, so you're like, okay, I know where we're going here. But at the same time, unless it's clever or surprising, then it can also just be like, oh, okay, me. And I don't I don't think anyone wants to make that film. No one wants to make the meet film.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:46

How was it? No. You know. Well, I don't know if that's true. I think I know some people who, as long as they got paid, they wouldn't care.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:54

Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:34:54

And I and I just think like, oh, you please don't work in this industry. You're the fucking reason. Like, you know. I liked what George Romero said. George Romero said he never wanted to turn up to work, take a sip of coffee, sigh, and go, let's make this piece of shit then.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:12

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:12

He said he never wanted to turn up and say that. So he always made sure that he took less money to get more creative control, so he could make whatever he wanted, and the investors weren't too concerned, because it's like he's not asking for millions, he's only asking for a couple hundred thousand, and he'll make that back, making a a zombie picture. So he always made sure he he got that right. Like he would he would take whatever the minimum he needed for himself. He's like, I'll take that for me, I don't care. And it's like that's that's how I see it. Like if you can just, you know, if you can make a living minimum wage doing this, but that means people are gonna give you less grief. Perfect. You can make exactly what you want to make, and you don't gotta worry about you know feeling like you're making some fluff, you know, gun for hire stuff, but some people like it.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:06

Yeah, it's a privilege to do what what we do. Um but I do think in the US in particular, how the crews were being treated and the length of the hours and the turnarounds, there needed to be a moment where everyone took a step back and go, this is only filmmaking. And how can we treat people better? I mean, I feel like it's a bit of an American dream moment anyway, in the fact that they do work, they live to work, it is definitely part of the psyche.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:42

Love it.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:43

I love working. You don't have a choice. I don't even know if they love it, it's just you don't really have a choice. If if everyone else is doing it and it's that kind of looking around, going, like, if I'm not doing it, does it look like I don't care? Or or am I not gonna get ahead? And because it's all about this, where you can go, you can get ahead, you can improve, you can I don't know, eat the American apple pie dream. Um, and so it keeps them on this treadmill. Um, but and I I think it would be great if actually people could earn more than minimum wage doing something that they love. But I think there is when there is more money and more corporate people to please, then yes, there's more tick boxes, there's more hurdles to go over. It's it becomes a different movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:29

It does. It does. Um it feels like the Exodus could be the answer to this next one as well. But what was the first film you watched that you felt that felt grown up?

SPEAKER_03 1:37:41

Uh I was thinking about this, and I think um I feel like for a lot of women my age it would it was this movie for them, and it's Greece.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:52

Okay, I've never seen it.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:54

You've never seen it. Oh my gosh. I mean, I feel I did think uh that's why I said at the beginning, you know, I might be aging you out on all these ones, but um Greece for me was just this moment of someone really realizing who they were in Sandy. Um, Olivia Newton John was amazing, uh that kind of sweet innocence that she had, and then trying to fit in in a new school, and um and just there were so many kind of things. I mean, it's ridiculous that they're playing high schoolers when you look at them all and they're all like 35. And even just how women or and men who were 35 now look so much younger than they did then, because back then they look all like they're in their 40s, you know, and it's like, hey, hey, you know, um, skipping around. But the things it was about, and I think it's because also I was living in the UK, so to see America, and it felt like this is American high school, and um, and it was full of singing and dancing and being cool and going to a drive-in and um and track and men with quiffs, and it just felt kind of grown up. It felt like, oh my god, that's an exciting life to aspire to. It's also full of humor with the bing bong, Idell High, and Beauty School Dropout, and uh pursuing your dreams and trying to find out who you are and how you fit in in the gang. You know, there were lots of things that actually were about rubbing up in groups. Um, and then it's also about identity and the who we are when we really love someone because she was a square and he was a cool dude, and so he became more of a jock, and you know, the whole last bit that he puts a cardigan on, and all his friends are ribbing him because he's taken off his leather jacket, and she's put on the set the sexy pants and the the boob tube and made her hair curly. Um, and so like they kind of meet each other, but it is also has she really kind of let go of being an innocent and kind of moving in womanhood. So, and I think the music was fun. Um, it was a time when the charts were like played on the radio on a Sunday night. My sister and I used to be Sandy and Danny, you know what I mean, in our in our front room. Take it in turns, who was the girl and who was the boy, and we would we would lip sync to it. Nice, nice really nice for our parents having to watch that Sunday because it was number one for about 12 weeks or something ridiculous, you know what I mean? The song really went bananas. Um, and there was uh you had to learn all the moves because there was a moment on the kind of like an affair ground of it just is a upbeat, fun, funny, uh at times kind of bordering on sexy because Rizo was kind of a woman who was loose in invertebrations, but wasn't really at all. She was in love with someone, it's just that they were having sex at that time, which also felt so risque to me as a as a young kid. Um, but it was just like it really did make me think, okay, I can't wait to be a grown-up, and I can't wait to be in that American high school with you know Danny Zuko.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:19

I know what you mean about the the American high school thing, like growing up with films like American Pie for me, where there's that whole thing of like, oh, my school is like for me, the in-betweeners was the perfect, like that's what school was like. That's me, I'm the dweeb, they're a cooler kids, and me and my mates are doing fuck all. And then whenever you watch films, you're like, Oh, these guys, they're there's hijinks, there's some titties running around. Well, where why haven't I got any of this business? I just got hijinks with myself, and you know, you just think like, I wish I had all of that going on. And then you watch all of those porkies, all those films. You're just like, ah man, teenage years should have been a lot more than they were. And then when you look back as an adult, you're like, oh, thank Christ. Thank Christ I had a normal childhood. Yeah, they weren't real, they weren't real, and they're not healthy adults now, those people, that's for sure. Um also I was uh I was a rock billy for a while. I had the Quift, white white t-shirts, turned up jeans. I was one of those guys when I was about 20, 21. And I hadn't seen Greece at that point, and because I dressed like that and listened to all that kind of stuff, would people be like, oh so you like Greece? I'm like sharp, mate. So I wouldn't, I just couldn't, I couldn't do it. And now it's just been too long, you know? I'd have to now I'd have to actively go and watch Greece in like uh I'm gonna watch Greece as a man who's nearly 40 and never seen it. Like that's what I'm gonna have to do. And I don't know if I've got it in me.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:01

I understand. And also, as well, a lot of people say that Grease 2 was better, which is controversial. But um I have Grease 2, yeah, Michelle Pfeiffer. But a lot of people say it was better. Um so you could only do it as an experiment, I think, Ted. You'd have to kind of do it just as a like I'll I'll do it then.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:18

I'll watch both back to back. That's how I'll do it. I almost did that with all of the police academies because I realised I'd only ever seen the first one. And then I rewatched the first one with the stonester faces for the whole hour and a half. Like, what is this? And I was like, I'm not watching, I'm not watching six more of these shits. I can't do it. Fucking so yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:39

How we remember things and actually how they are when we revisit. Um, yeah, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:45

Um you speak very highly of Greece, but is that a film that holds a special place in your heart?

SPEAKER_03 1:43:53

Um no, the one that I'll always return to is um Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:01

Lovely.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:03

I can if that movie is on, I will stop everything to watch it. It doesn't matter where it is, I will stop and I will sit. And I have to have about between 15 and 30 minutes afterwards in recovery. Yeah. Um and it's and it's kind of interesting because my if I think about this, I remember once when I was just leaving college or something in my early 20s, and I was watching Breakfast at Tiffany's, and that's also I love that movie too. And at the end, when she's going, cat, cat, and she's like searching, and then he comes and he gets her, and she's like looking in the rain. And and my friend at the time said to her daughter, Oh, look at Auntie Flisty crying at her life, which maybe I was like, Oh cheers. Oh, thank you. Um, but I mean, I have always had a cat, you know what I mean? So and I last go down and pet my cat to, you know. I mean, it's just like, hang on, I'm not a prostitute, but anyway, but anyway, that was um yet, yes. I mean, let's see what happens next few years.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:10

Um never say never.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:11

Never say never, yeah, indeed. But Eternal Slunch and the Spotless Mind is kind of that same thing in the fact that it reminds me of so many of the relationships that I have been in, loved, lost, um, would do again, would I? That question about love and how we see each other, and if we knew it was gonna end, but we knew we were in it, and this is we had the good bits, would we do it again? A bit like a rival, you know, this the plot of a rival. Um well, the subplot of a rival, not the whole thing, but you know, um about her daughter. So I feel like that is my thing about it because I'm obviously a huge romantic in here somewhere, and I love it when people are in love. I love watching people in love. I you know, I have enjoyed the moments when I've been truly happy and in love. I've been, you know, it's such an amazing thing to feel these feelings and looking at someone that you care about. Um, so there's that element to it, but then I just loved all the sci-fi, I loved all the imagery, you know, and then you see Mark Ruffalo as a really young man and Kirsten Dunstan, just like it's full of um incredible performances, and Tom Wilkinson and Elijah Wood, and then also, of course, I'm a big fan of Kate Winslett, she's an amazing woman, just incredible human, great actress. I love how she's staying in her own natural face, right? I think how she stands up for herself and women in film is amazing, and Jim Carey is my dick van Dyke. I am if I could meet that man, um I would, and I I don't know if I'd be able to say anything, but I just it who he is as a performer, how he has chosen the roles that he has in his life and learn from them. It feels like his life has been a work of art for us all to participate in and watch.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:12

And then I really enjoy the um the sort of the nihilistic version he's turned into that's still full of joy, but also like none of this matters, it's all silly. We're just we're just living, and it's like, well done, Jim. Well done. Keep telling everyone that, like, enjoy it, don't get fooled into it, just enjoy it.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:34

But yeah, yeah, and the fact that he's an artist and yeah, in this eternal sunshine, he is so raw and real, and I think because uh before that, we'd only really see him pulling loads of faces and doing lots of things very physically. So to see him so measured and uh controlled in a way, but so full. Uh there's a whole thing about screen acting where you can't move around a lot, but it doesn't mean to say that you aren't full of character and full of performance, you know, it's still in there. But some people it doesn't feel like it translates in the same way, whereas it just feels like when you look at him, everything is alive. I feel it's the same with Kate Winslit, she has that same thing, it's um you never feel like it's acting, it's just it's just real embodiment, and yeah, it's a it's a 10-star movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:30

And with Jim Kerry, he's got that same thing that Robin Williams had, where it was you know that behind all that laughter and silly faces and energy, there is someone who is fucking worn out and tired and sad. So when they finally get to play that role, it's so well achieved that you're just like, Oh god, like we're watching this character, but we're also watching Jim Carrey, like we're also watching like Robin Williams after everything that's happened, and you just see this sort of completely broken, sad husk that is still giving it everything, and you're just like, Well done. Like, I do think comedians can give better dramatic performances than the dramatic actor trying to do a comedy thing. It's just like, no, there's something about it that it doesn't go the other way. Like, the funny people can be more dramatic, but dramatic people can't quite always be funny, and it's an interesting sort of duality in that.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:27

No, it's a timing thing for me, but you're absolutely right. And I'm not sure that after saying, you know, I love Kate Winsor and everything, that she did a great job in the holiday. I felt the holiday wasn't quite the timing, was quite like a slight misfire. But then also she's dealing with Cameron Diers, who is a master. She's a master comedian. So and Gat Black. I mean, that was a that was a tough crew of wonderfulness. Um and Jude Law, sort of, you know, very nice on the eyes.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:53

But I think Jude Law as well is I think he's better than we've allowed him to be. I think he was thrown into heartthrob status, and it's like, oh, I think he could have given us some quite interesting roles had he not had to jump straight into that.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:08

Did you see The Order?

SPEAKER_00 1:50:11

Uh, with Nicholas Holt.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:13

Yes. He was fucking excellent in that. He was so good in that.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:18

That was my favourite movie. That was 2024, I think, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:50:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:21

That was my favourite movie of 2024.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:23

I just was like I saw it at Austin. It was it was good.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:28

I went because it was I hadn't really looked at what it was about, but I do like a noir thriller. So I'm a personal fan. Um so I thought And I like Nicholas Holt. Yeah, I mean he he's an incredible actor too. I mean, and he's so good in this. And same as Jude Law, but I just went with my friend, and we both sat there and I could I could feel us both in absolute silence, mesmerized. The way that they shot the country as well, the the landscapes, and there was a drone and this no, this kind of like the uh the sound mix was so intense. So you felt, I mean, it felt like it was my body was humming alive with the threat and the worry and the presence of evil. It was and and it's such a lesson to what's happening in the States right now, and they you know, taking something from the 80s to say, Oh yeah, remember then? And just this whole Nazi and the fascism that's happening there now. Incredible movie, and I just think he is insanely good in it.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:36

Yes, and I that's the that's I that role specifically. I did watch it thinking, like, ooh, you know how Jeff Ridges went away, came back old. I hope this is what Jude Laws is. It's he's gonna he's gone away, and now he's gonna come back as not the heart throb, he's gonna come back as quite a gruff, good, gnarled up actor. And if he gets more roles like it, I'm all here for it. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:00

Yeah. No, I think that's it. He um he did a really good job of being an American, one, you know what I mean? So I believed him. Um, and then two, rocking their moustache. Not everyone can do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:14

Yeah, not everyone can. A lot of people are trying it. And they should fail and miserable. They shouldn't be doing it. I will say, I've got Indian heritage and I can't grow one. It's disgusting.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:24

Oh, I'm sorry for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:25

Miserable. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:26

I've started growing odd hairs out of my top lip if that makes you feel any better, and I wish I didn't.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:32

See? Some people get all the luck.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:34

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:34

I'm over here wanting it, you're getting it.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:36

Yeah, getting random, random strays, very hot coarse and harsh.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:41

Are you bleaching or plucking?

SPEAKER_03 1:52:43

Plucking, yeah. You'll see you'll see women of a certain age that if they're if they're like stroking the corner of their top lip, they've just found one that's suddenly grown very long overnight. Impossibly so. And then it has to be, and then you're out and about. The only good thing is if you're out with people your own age, they won't be able to see it. If you're out with a young person, they'll be like, what's that? And you'll be like, you know, so nothing.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:04

I've got to go home.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:06

I must leave immediately.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:09

I've had a lovely I've had a lovely evening. Goodbye.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:12

You haven't had your dinner. I'm going, I'm sorry. I've there's something urgent.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:17

Look, at my age, you can't have supper after eight. It's early, but for a reason.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:22

I'm gonna do it on my musta my moustache hair.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:31

Um so what is your controversial opinion on a famous film?

SPEAKER_03 1:53:37

Um I had to think about this. I mean, because I I feel like It's a Wonderful Life is a famous film that everyone has a has an opinion about. Um I mean, I was also thinking about Bar Barbarian, I was also thinking about weapons, but I think it's a wonderful life because of it's it's it's kind of billed as a cozy Christmas movie, but it's really the opposite.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:08

Yeah. It starts with a kid almost drowning.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:13

Wait, doesn't the brother? No, the brother doesn't die. Does the brother die? He goes he goes deaf.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:18

Yes. And that's not funny.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:22

Well no, and I think it's just as well like it's um you know, he's going to the bridge to go and kill himself. Um and then you kind of realize that he has he gets to see the town without him. You know, that's the you know, as we know, that's the main premise of it. Um but I just I mean things were bad without him. That is true. So therefore, him wanting a bigger life, him wanting to go and see other countries, him wanting not to be married and have kids, is kind of then said you needed to have a life of sacrifice and to you know be the kind of meat person. And I think also for his wife, um, she was when he wasn't there, she was um a librarian and unmarried and frightened and alone, you know, the that it not being married really ruined her.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:32

And she was nothing without it.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:34

Yeah, nothing. And timid, and um and I think that is so it's kind of it's there's a lot going on there which uh is are of its time, that's for certain. But um I think it's about duty and like staying in your place and you know not really having dreams and uh being a good person.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:03

Well, it really is pushing the American dream of like, oh, you can do anything you want as long as you clock in nine to five.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:09

Yeah. And you never really um push any boundaries and why why travel around the world?

SPEAKER_00 1:56:17

We've got snow and sun in this country. Don't don't spend tourism dollars outside of the US, come on.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:24

Don't get a passport. I mean, so many Americans.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:26

That sounds like a commie thing, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:56:31

So I think that's my controversial take on that. It's just like it's seen as like this like, oh, it's so sweet, and it's like George, and oh my god, and the angel Clarence. Um trying to do his, you know, and he's all chubby. So um, so I think that's my controversial take on that.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:50

I think it's an interesting one. I think it's a good one. I like it.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:54

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:55

You don't hear much hate for Jimmy Stewart, and I appreciate.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:59

I don't, yeah, it's not him. I mean, he does an amazing job of actually kind of making him almost us almost by it. You know what I mean? We buy it. We're like, oh yeah, you're right, you should stay there, and oh my god, they won't but also the guy that steals the money gets away with it, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:57:15

The banker guy that wants to still have half the town and he's still it feels like Revolutionary Road would be a really good sort of um double bill with its wonderful life, because that's about a man who wanted more, and then uh his wife dying means he has to stay in this life now, regardless of what he wanted. And you can see you can see Leo's face just uh die inside at the end of that film. It's great. You know, that's kind of the life that he was gonna leave, enjoy, and wonderful life.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:45

So yeah. Another Winslet, another Winslet performance that was wonderful.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:50

Yes. I haven't watched it because I remember at the time she was I mean, that was she was that was directed by her husband at the time, Sam Mendis, wasn't it? And um I kind of remember all that kind of messiness he was having an affair. Um I I I've already been married and I didn't like it. So I was like, I don't know if I I think it's just gonna reaffirm everything I think about being married.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:14

Uh Marriage Story came out during my divorce. And uh it was like, is it have you seen Marriage Story? And I was like, why the fuck would I watch that? I am going through it, man. Like I don't fucking need to watch some other prick do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:58:31

And you're a bit Adam Driver adjacent. I mean, like you could be.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:34

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:58:35

Yeah, thank you. Very handsome.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:37

I mean, I I like his surliness as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:58:40

He's he's an extremely good actor, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:42

He is a good actor. And uh don't think I didn't miss you saying handsome man. I'll take it, I'll take it, I'll take it. Um so what have you been watching recently?

SPEAKER_03 1:58:54

Um well, I mean, I feel like I've been a bit rubbish because um I've been leaving a country and moving back to the UK and and then going to Cannes, then try um to Cannes and then try back, and then I went. Um I haven't had much time basically to go to the movies, but I did see Hell Mary.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:15

What were you doing on the Plains?

SPEAKER_03 1:59:16

Yeah, and I was trying to remember. I mean, I did watch some on the pl uh actually I worked all the way out there because I was doing that um proof of concept. So I was contracts and everything, but and on the way back from Tribeca, I did actually watch some movies, but I was trying to I watched three quarters of F1. Um I used to enjoy uh Formula One, I used to watch it when I was in the UK. It was kind of fun to see that again, and um I do like watching Brad Pitt, um, so it was kind of fun, but I was enjoying the other performances in that movie too. Um, but I think I was thinking back to the things I've really enjoyed, and it was um I really enjoyed the Wicked movies, and then I thought as we were talking today about these big studio movies and these massive sets that chitty chitty bang bang and singing in the rain and that kind of old school and wicked in a in a way, I guess. Now I'm reflecting on it, it reminds me of that because they built the sets, and they it wasn't CGI and it wasn't AI, it was real daffodil fields to run through and and they are singing, they are singing, they are singing like that triple threat or something the other, you know. I mean Cynthia really.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:28

I wouldn't say she uh Ariana Grande can act, but she can definitely sing.

SPEAKER_03 2:00:33

I thought she was pretty good in this, though. I mean, I feel like I mean my thing about it is that she's very what she has done is she's taken every single moment and done something with it. So Cynthia Revo sits in the performance more, but actually it's it's it's less weirdly compelling to me because Arya Grande, I can see I can see her like and now I'm thinking she's working and working and working. Somehow in this slightly heightened world of the musical works for me. If it was a drama, I'd be like, hey, go tone it down. Do you know what I mean? That's too much, yeah. But I feel like somehow in this, and playing the character of Glinda with that kind of very preciseness and the need for perfection and this insecurity that's coming from trying to be magic when you're not. Um she kind of doing all that stuff reinforced it for me. And then I think it was just such an ambitious project, and and they shot it in the UK, so you know, 10 stars, so so much work for so many film and creative people in the UK. Um, and I really thought it was brave and um I mean so much money, but it was also about female friendship, so I guess that's the other thing about it. It lent into that element. So I really understood that it was about these two women at the core. I mean, and Jeff Goldblum's always good value, let's be honest. Um, but and that, and even with the press tour and how they behave with each other, and I I don't mind all that stuff. I know some people have found it kind of repelling and annoying, and just you know, like is it real? Is it not real? I don't mind all that stuff. What I loved was just these sweet people who did something that was really hard and a lot of work, and they were on set for a really long time together. And we know we see the like polished end piece of this, but things went wrong all the time, you know. And um, you know, I remember they actually got burnt on the Ariana got burnt on the leg or something when they were ironing something, you know, like it was all these other little things that kind of happen, and I just think it was such a sweet love story of those two women um enjoying doing this incredible movie together where they were the leads and it was all about them, and I just yeah, I enjoyed that for it. Excellent.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:56

I haven't watched it, not for any reason other than it doesn't it doesn't spark my interest from a musical perspective, right? And from a performance perspective, it's not people that I would seek out for their performances. Jonathan Bailey, maybe, but like not anyone else. But it's not to say that it's something that I would never watch, it's just something that will never, you know, it just wouldn't you know come up. It's a bit like um oh what was the new Emerald Fennel Emerald Fennel Fennel?

SPEAKER_03 2:03:35

Um um Star Burst, like the one with um No, the one with um Saltburn.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:43

Not Saltburn. What's the adaptation she just did? The Jane Austen.

SPEAKER_03 2:03:48

Oh, the um Wathering Heights, yeah, I didn't want to say that.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:50

Wathering Heights.

SPEAKER_03 2:03:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:51

That's another one. It's I I I'm not taken by it in any way. But um another guest on the podcast had mentioned that Emerald Fennel said that she had written her version of the film as if it was through the eyes of a 15-year-old picturing how the book was going. And I was like, oh, I would watch that thinking that. If I'm going in thinking I'm gonna see an adaptation, I'm gonna be disappointed, whatever. But if I'm thinking this is a 15-year-old's sort of or a teen, a young, a preteen sort of uh mental projection of how she read the book, I might watch that film a bit differently, and now I will go watch it. So with Wicked, it seems like it's not something that I will instantly dismiss as like, oh, I'm never gonna watch that, because I'll watch any film. But what's it matter if I watch any film? But when someone sort of gives a uh another reading of it, then I'm a bit more like, okay, yeah. Like if I'm if I'm not ready for it to be the reading I think it's gonna be, I'll wait till someone else tells me read it in another way. So I will watch it eventually, but just not straight away.

SPEAKER_03 2:04:54

You're gonna watch Greece and Greece 2 first.

SPEAKER_00 2:04:56

Exactly. I'm gonna see how I feel with uh what I would consider modern musicals.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:03

I I love the fact that our taste are so in different places.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:08

Well Singing in the Rain is one of my favourite films. So I like a musical. Blues Brothers. I like a musical, but yeah, not wicked.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:20

Yeah, oh I get it. I was just trying to think of things that I really enjoyed. I was trying to think because Arrival is one of my most arrival is the second, and the Truman show. I mean that there are some like ones that would stop me in my tracks, and I will always sit down and watch. But I was trying to think of something modern that I really enjoyed that I just came out and I felt like elated or um uh moved in some way, and it I I I I haven't really other than that.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:51

I will say Denis Villanvier's I can't pronounce his name, and uh I'd like to make it as offensive as possible when I try. Um but their films I think are always they're proving since Prisoners his films have really proved to be like, oh, they are very good. So whenever I left things like that, or The Dunes or his Blade Runner arrival, there's that feeling of like, ah, this is a film. This is a good film, you know? And Paul Thomas Anderson is another one that's for me. I always watch Paul Thomas Anderson film and think, this is a film. This is a film I want to watch and I want to enjoy it, and I enjoy it, and it's good.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:28

Yeah, that's one battle after another, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:06:31

I really enjoyed one battle after another. Like a lot. More than I expected I would.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:39

Yeah, yeah. I I want to see that. I haven't seen it yet.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:44

Though when it comes to new things, I I get a bit uh annoyed with new things. Like you mentioned weapons in your controversial you didn't say anything, you just skirted it. I was really annoyed with weapons. I was really annoyed with sinners. Like there's films that are considered really top shelf, and I just look at them like yeah, if you've never watched a film before, you might think that was good. But if you've watched two films, you know these aren't very good. And it just annoys me. But then I become a smug film wanker.

SPEAKER_03 2:07:19

So I just thought the story of weapons wasn't very good, and I think that's uh my problem with it, it didn't have any depth to it. And actually in the cinema, because uh um my friend and I used to go to this AMC in uh the grove and we used to smuggle wine in. So you can buy wine there, but so we'd buy a bottle of wine there, but then we'd always want another. So, like, and we'd and we'd had two bottles watching weapons because I think we would go, I think we felt like we needed it. And at the end, when they were running around with their arms out and they were coming over landing on her, we were crying, laughing. I mean, we the whole I mean, the cinema was well, I'd already started laughing earlier, but it it we were crying, it was hilarious, and that and I felt like everyone else started laughing too. And I I don't know whether some places they were like, Oh, this is you know, or whether it was supposed to be funny, but it honestly it it killed me. I was absolutely crying last year.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:16

It annoyed me because Zach Kregger said we didn't know what we were doing, we were just making it up as we were going along, and it was like, you don't fucking say Zach. Like that's exactly what it looks like. But you're I think I might have already said this, like you're not in a position to do that because if you fuck around, the studios won't take a risk anymore. Like, so you kind of have to, you know, when you get to the Martin Scorsese's, when you get to the yeah, maybe not even Catherine Bigelow anymore, but like if you get to like a certain level of filmmaker where you can go, I'm gonna do this, and the studio goes, crack on, Chris Nolan, let's say, then you can afford to like fuck around and find out. But if you're making your second like studio feature, and you start saying things like, ah, we were just fucking around, then the studios aren't gonna try and give money to younger filmmakers or like new up-and-coming filmmakers, because they'll be like, nah, nah, we need some people who aren't gonna fuck around.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:14

And it's like I feel like obsession and room 24, is it room 24?

SPEAKER_00 2:09:19

Backrooms?

SPEAKER_03 2:09:20

Backrooms, sorry, back rooms and obsession might kind of like open that door again. But I I totally agree that you if you are in that position, don't even if that is what happened, don't say things like that because it does make executives nervous. And if you want them to try and help other young filmmakers that are coming through, emerging people, then we need to say that everyone's taking it very seriously because it is even if it is a low budget movie, it is still millions of dollars or millions of pounds.

SPEAKER_00 2:09:53

So I think the fact that they hadn't worked out what the I feel like the piece was the kids, they hadn't really worked out what the where the they were just in the basement, they hadn't really worked out what that meant, and they hadn't really it just it just yeah, it was just at the beginning they say the kids were never seen again, and then at the end they all go home, yeah, and then they try to they they they had to put in the text afterwards after a screening because people were saying, like, well, that doesn't make sense, so they just did a little epilogue that was like, Oh, they were never seen again in like a metaphorical sense, and it was like fuck off, just fuck off, man. Like, and I really like barbarian, so I was really like, You son of a bitch.

SPEAKER_03 2:10:34

That's interesting, yeah. No barbarian uh it was it was such an uncomfortable watch, which I really loved, especially that first half where you were like, Don't do that, don't go down well, don't go in the thing. I mean, like it just literally all the red flags, yeah, and then it became a completely different movie. Suddenly we're in California, we're like la la la, you know, and and um but I felt like that became uh for me a bit grotesque, and I think it's just because I didn't I know it's trying to say that women are abused by men, but where's where's any proof of that?

SPEAKER_00 2:11:13

I don't know why you've got to bring this, why are you gonna make this political?

SPEAKER_03 2:11:17

But that making him like suck on her boob and all you know that I that was unnecessary. Also her being naked, unnecessary, her being a monster and a witch, unnecessary. You know what I mean? You that dude keeping women locked downstairs, that's bad enough. It you should have just been someone that was in an absolute state and become ravaged or like or uh like because of what he has put her through. So it's a real thing rather than it it removed something by making her a monster and then also making her naked and in that situation, balding, weird. I mean, uh just all that stuff. I was like, um, I like the fact the things I liked about it were I like the fact that you were not allowed to talk about it. You know, I mean, don't talk, don't tell anyone. And I that stuff, I love all that lore. I love all that exciting thing about creating a mystery around a project, trying to get people interested. And they really did do such a good job of putting it in a few theatres and it growing and growing and growing. And that I admire so much. So 10 stars.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:26

That that is the same sort of William Castle kind of uh filmmaking approach where it's like we're gonna make a film called The Tingler, and I'm gonna put electric shocks in all the seats, and you know, it's like excellent, perfect, like that's great, and then there's gonna be a bit where the film breaks the fourth wall, the projection booth breaks down, and then Vincent Price narrates the film saying, Hold on, the projectionist is gonna try and fix this, and then the electric shocks go off in the seat, and everyone thinks the tingler's running through the aisle. Love it. Wow, that's how you make a film.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:58

That's cool.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:00

That it was also the 50s and 60s where you can get away with that shit, but still. Interactive, very good stuff. Well, thank you very much for coming on. It's been lovely.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:12

Um, yeah, thank you so much for having me. It was a real pleasure, and I'm sorry that I've watched lots of films that you haven't.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:22

Oh no, it's great because now I get to fill in my watch list with you know, cinema like Greece 1 and 2.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:29

The important movies in life. What's your first favourite movie so far at the moment for 2026?

SPEAKER_00 2:13:34

I'm gonna have to pull up my letterbox because I did see something recently which I thought was spectacular. And it might have been One Battle. Um Diary? No, films. Oh, Project Hail Mary.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:49

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:50

Like I I I read it and then I watched it, and the book was a five-star book, and the film was a five-star film. Like, I loved it.

SPEAKER_03 2:14:00

It is cute.

SPEAKER_00 2:14:02

It's it it made the it sort of felt like it was treating the audience with respect for a change. A lot of films don't seem to do that. They think you're an idiot. And uh this film felt like there was wonder, there was sci-fi, there was stakes, there was everything it should have been for a big old sci-fi epic. Ryan Gosling actually um showed some emotion for a change and not just his normal himbo kind of aesthetic, and that was really fun. So I would say Prochetale Mary was probably the best film I've seen this year in sort of like big cinema, let's say.

SPEAKER_03 2:14:40

Yeah. I agree. I think I think it I mean Grok is a is it called Grok?

SPEAKER_00 2:14:47

What's the what's the the AI?

SPEAKER_03 2:14:49

Yeah, though no, the alien. What's the alien's name? Oh, um it doesn't matter, but I've thought I uh I think I can't I want to call it Grok, but I don't want to call it because it's not no Grok is uh Musk's AI.

SPEAKER_00 2:15:01

Um Rocky? Rocky Rocky, Rocky Rocky, yes, because he says the partner's partner would be called Adrian.

SPEAKER_03 2:15:08

Yeah, and I mean I thought Rocky, I like the handling of the alien because I think aliens quite often um the like horror, the use of the other is a way to make us hate other people. So basically it's to make us more racist, more homophobic, more sexist, more misogynistic, using the other, and we use aliens as one of those ways to say that other people that are unlike you are bad. And I feel like that's used quite a lot as a trope in sci-fi. So I really enjoyed how Rocky is portrayed, and I think the relationship of um between the two of them, and you're right, Ryan Gosling, acting with a person in a suit, you know what I mean, or whoever they did that, is kind of amazing. And I um and it was really moving when he survived, when Rocky survived, and he didn't know whether he was gonna not. But I did think there were too many endings, and it's a bit long. There is it definitely needs a little bit of a trimming, and I think we need to work out what the real ending is, what the real button is.

SPEAKER_00 2:16:09

So I had just read it when I watched it. Uh, Kirsty, my partner, hadn't read it. So seeing her witness the Rocky Will He Won't He make It was wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:16:23

Like, I didn't tell her, and I was like, Rocky, what's gonna happen? And she's like, Why am I crying over a fucking rock? And I was like, because he's amazing. Um when it got to about 20 minutes towards the end, I got a bit worried because I was like, the book, there is a big old like a the end third of this book, maybe the last quarter, hasn't been spoken about yet. Right. And I feel like I don't know how we're gonna get there. And then they very quickly sort of wrapped it up and they covered it. And I'd actually say it's one of those films where it's like, oh, I would have I would have taken an extra half an hour of that film to establish that ending a bit more because I think that the ending I guess because I had just read it, like I knew how the whole story was meant to unfold. But I did like how they ended it in the film. I don't know, maybe. I'm gonna buy it when it comes out.

SPEAKER_03 2:17:19

Yeah, I mean I think it's so sweet when they're all there and it's and it feels hopeful and kind. In a world that sometimes isn't feeling very hopeful or very kind to have something that feels like partnership and taking care of and you know, and just sweetness. I I I enjoyed that that piece of it.

SPEAKER_00 2:17:47

I think it's nice as well that it's they didn't make such a big song and dance about him leaving Earth. He wasn't he had no attachment to it.

SPEAKER_02 2:17:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:17:56

Just just going. And it was like, oh good, because there would be that whole thing of like, does he have to go back for her? Will they, won't they, what's gonna happen? It's like no no no no no no. He realizes there's nothing for him there, and he's more interested in the exploration. That's wonderful. Yeah. So yeah. Worst film I've seen so far is Disclosure Day.

SPEAKER_03 2:18:16

I haven't seen it yet, but I've heard terrible things about it. It's such a shame.

SPEAKER_00 2:18:20

It is such a shame.

SPEAKER_03 2:18:21

Many ideas like plonk plonktin and E.T. at times.

SPEAKER_00 2:18:26

I mean, I've heard like all sorts from people are saying I thought there was a point at the end when we were gonna find out that this was actually like a a legacy sequel to Close Encounters, and I was ready to change it all and be like, this film's amazing, and it didn't do that, and it was shit.

SPEAKER_03 2:18:44

Oh, I'm sorry. I know it's a shame because that the trailer looks really good.

SPEAKER_00 2:18:49

Yeah. I was I was in, I was all bought and paid for. I went to the IMAX and it was not not good. You sound like uh Emily Blunt. I'm sure you're told that, and I'm sure that annoys you.

SPEAKER_03 2:19:00

I didn't know that. I I I am a big fan of Emily Blunt, and the reason why I like her so much is because she is 1000% herself at all times in all of those interviews, excuse me, and all of the press tours. She and also she's always giggling. She must be such a quiet to be around. She plays continually, and that and her love her relationship with John Krasinski from the outside looking in, it looks like a very nice one, and you know, and I'm just she's having a really fabulous life, and I'm so pleased for her, you know.

SPEAKER_00 2:19:41

Yeah. I watched Sunshine Cleaning, uh, a 2008 film with Amy Adams. It was great.

SPEAKER_03 2:19:47

And my god, was that her in it? Because I saw I watched it because of like Amy Adams back in the day. Oh my god, I watched it when it came out, so that was Emily. Because I I mean I've just watched Devil Wears Prada again. I actually watched the original just before um just recently because I wanted to watch the second one. And I thought she was so good in that. I mean, she was likable whilst being a terrible person, which is a very hard job.

SPEAKER_00 2:20:14

It's very hard job. She does that quite well, like it's difficult. But yeah, it was her in Sanchei Cleaning, and she was wonderful in that. And the fact that you can still see the way she acted in that film, which I think was 2008, like there are still elements of that exact same actor in her things she's doing now, and you just think, well done, well done. You've maintained a sort of you've you've definitely grown as an actor, but you've also kept what's you in that performance, and that's really good. And uh yeah, it was really good. I really enjoyed that film.

SPEAKER_03 2:20:51

Yeah, it's fun. I remember it back in the day.

unknown 2:20:54

God.

SPEAKER_00 2:20:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:20:56

Hmm. Well, thank you anyway. Thanks for having me. You are amazing, and uh you do an amazing job of ever making everyone feel very comfortable, which is a very essential piece.