BONUS: Exploring Human Design: Defined, Undefined & Living Your Truth

In this episode, I sit down with Paula Pivaronas to dive into the layers of human design. We talk about defined vs. undefined centers, the not-self themes, and how de-conditioning can help you step fully into your energy. We explore the power of experimentation, embracing your unique design, and living in alignment with your truth. If you’ve ever wondered how human design can serve as a practical tool for self-awareness, this conversation is for you.

Transcript

Meghan (00:00)
So, Paula and I met in, sometime in between 2007 and 2009. I'm thinking we met in 2008, which is interesting because 2008 is a 10 year, or in numerology it's a 10 year, but it's also just like a ⁓ one, you know?

Paula Pivaronas (00:08)
Yep.

Meghan (00:21)
⁓ and this year is a nine year, 2025, and next year we're entering into a one year. I'm not a huge into numerology, but I do find these little. Synchronistic things interesting, you know? when I say I'm not huge into something, it just means I don't know all of the details. I haven't read all the books. I haven't taken the courses. I haven't invested in the, you know, in the, the mentors or whatever. I'm just.

It's just like a noticing, you know, it's just like a notice. And so I feel like, you know, our time, we met in East Texas at a place called the Honor Academy. ⁓ I feel like that time that we met was more like, knew of you and I knew you through mutual friends and through people in our community and like the other.

interns that were out at the Honor Academy, but you and I never sat in, or I shouldn't say never, because we very well may have, but we didn't sit consistently at the same lunch table. We didn't sit consistently next to each other in class. Like, I mean, we weren't friends in that way of like social friends together, hanging out all the time, right? I mean, it was more just like we made an impression on one another at that time. And then fast forward, you know, 17 years or whatever.

almost, you know, 12 years and it feels like here we are living a very different life, both as individuals, but also as a collective, right? Like we're just in a completely different place ⁓ in the state of our world and the state of our country, all of the things like that then we were in 2008. And so I had been sharing a little bit on Instagram, like thank God for the internet, truly, because like

I don't know how else I would have stayed in touch with you, you know, or how else we would have even stayed in each other's world at all. ⁓ And, cause it's not like I had your phone number saved, you know, like that kind of thing. so, so all that to say, I had been sharing a little bit online recently, and I've always shared a lot on like Facebook, but I've, I started sharing a little bit more about just some of this, a new system that I had found, which was called Human Design.

And specifically, I was sharing about being a projector inside the human design system. And for me, human design was introduced to me in like 2017, maybe. But I didn't really like take much thought to it at all. Like it was more, just I became aware of it, but I didn't like dive into it. So all of that to say, I'm going to try to spend today not

over emphasizing like specific dates and times and when this happened and when that happened, because I can get really like into the nitty gritty about it. And actually it doesn't matter. know, ever present now is like that we're here. And so I shared something about being a projector. You responded and we're like, Hey, I'm a projector as well. And then kind of off we go to having like a couple of really deep conversations and talking about how we should record some of these conversations because

They are a topic that gets discussed in some ways, but ⁓ depending on where you're at in the world and just your life and your schedule and your family's, you know, in your house, ⁓ household, like living situation and the responsibilities you have, may or someone may or may not take the time to study it for themselves. So then listening to like us talk about it or listening to a YouTube channel or whatever, you know, it kind of starts opening up new doors for people. And, you've opened up doors for me.

And yeah, that's why I'm looking forward to this conversation. So that's how we got here. I guess, let me ask you this, like, how did you find out you were a projector and how did you find human design?

Paula Pivaronas (04:11)
you

Yeah, I think you kind of touched on it. My brain wants to like hone in on like dates, times, that sort of thing. And so like a timeline comes up and I'm like, that's like 35 years of trying to get it together. ⁓ But I found human design in like 2022 ish. It was post COVID. TikTok was big. ⁓ And I started seeing it pop up on TikTok.

And it kind of gave me like a similar kind of like vibe to astrology. ⁓ And so I started digging into it. And from there, I at that time was living in my RV in Asheville, North Carolina. And ⁓ I had a friend who, you know, she saw me kind of like going around and like,

asking people their information so I could figure out what their charts were. Because that's something that I like to do. I like to collect data from real life and people that I know and look at that and then see how it compares to the person that I know. ⁓ And I did that with astrology and everything. But yeah, so I just kind of dove right in and she is a medium.

in Asheville, North Carolina. And so she was doing like different psychic fairs and different events like that. So she kind of brought me on as like a human design reader to some of the events that she did. And I just kind of expanded from there.

Meghan (06:02)
Cool. So you found human design through TikTok.

Paula Pivaronas (06:05)
Yeah.

Meghan (06:07)
That's awesome.

It is awesome because I don't find very many things online like that and I almost always get notified about what's happening by, it's almost like someone just like sends me a link or something. Like I don't find it, but someone finds it and they think of me and they send it to me. ⁓

So anyway, I just find it interesting how all this works. Like, and that's how human design worked for me. was like, I went to, just, I just remembered this the other day when I was going through my Facebook messenger with someone that I used to know, you know, and, ⁓ just like the last message that they sent me was my human design profile in 2017. And I didn't dive into it at the time. You know, it was just wasn't the time to dive into it, but you know, here we are for me.

Paula Pivaronas (06:55)
crazy.

Meghan (07:03)
Eight, seven years later. ⁓ what would you say, and we'll get into some of like more of the things that are relevant to you or me or like a person, individual, but what is human design and why do think you are attracted to it?

Paula Pivaronas (07:24)
I think that

I was looking for a little bit of direction, which is funny for someone with a defined G center and we'll go down that road. ⁓ I think I want it like, I've always kind of like felt a little, ⁓

Untied too.

a specific career or I guess career, like a path like that. I haven't really like felt like called to do something. And so human design offered a lot of information and I just enjoyed kind of diving into that.

Meghan (08:17)
Did it feel like it gave you direction pretty much right away? Like, you in it right away? Like, did it give you what you were looking for?

Paula Pivaronas (08:26)
I think that, you know, everyone kind of gears towards the incarnation cross as your like life's purpose. ⁓ And so mine resonates in a way, but at the same time isn't something that's like, here's here's career options, you know, so it was like kind of like a broad like, this is what you'll be doing, but to actually pinpoint it now. ⁓

But at the same time, there's like the basics of human design is really where anyone should start. So just knowing like what type you are and ⁓ what your strategy and authority is. So that helped. But you know, as a projector, we're not just, it's not like we're generators or manifesting generators where it's like we get

ask questions that we can then answer. It's more something that we are than, okay, going internally, studying, ⁓ and waiting.

Meghan (09:35)
So much waiting as a projector. It's been knowing this about my authority type and strategy. So for projectors, just for anyone listening that may be not familiar, for projectors, it's our strategy, right, that requires we wait for an invitation.

Paula Pivaronas (09:38)
You

Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is like a multiple part situation because

The invitation has to come from someone who recognizes you and you have to feel that recognition. So it's like a multi-step kind of strategy. RAW has it, wait for the invitation, but really you need that recognition first. You can get invitations that are unrecognized or you can get invitations that don't work for you. I just had a conversation with one of my friends who's another 6'2 projector.

And just about like the waiting for the invitation and she's like, I feel this recognition, but I don't, I still feel bitter. And I'm like, well, maybe there is something else in your chart that is saying no.

So not only are we waiting for God knows how long, then we could get invitations that still aren't right for us. So it's one of those things. But on the other side of that, kind of see it as like, especially being the six two. So the six profile goes through three different stages of life and you and I are in the middle stage and it's the hermit stage and kind of collecting information, collecting data, studying and just like.

an inward scope, not to say that we won't be getting invitations, but ⁓ our focus is to collect information. ⁓ And that kind of like goes a little differently for everybody, but. ⁓

Yeah, just I kind of lost my train of thought.

Meghan (12:01)
There's something about what you said earlier in terms of your friend felt, and this is a question I meant to ask you before we even hit record is that would it be of, would it behoove us, I think is the word I want to use, would it behoove us to pull up like one of our charts and like look at it, you know? I'm gonna.

ask a question about what you just mentioned for your friend, but I'm curious, like, you know, want to explore like any, we're maybe talking about an energy center or something like that, if we want to like talk about one of our charts, you know, and kind of give a specific example or something, would that interest you?

Paula Pivaronas (12:41)
Yeah, I

have both charts up on my PC. ⁓ That way I can kind of flip between the two ⁓ because I do, I mean, there's a lot to the chart. Yeah, so if we could get like just a small.

reference point.

I lost your mic. There we go. There we go.

Meghan (13:11)
that.

⁓ So yes, absolutely. ⁓ So like a moment ago, you were talking about your friend who's a six two projector. They feel like they're being recognized, but haven't received the invitation yet. And then you said maybe there's something else in your chart. You're talking about their human design chart, or are you talking about their like natal birth chart?

Paula Pivaronas (13:35)
Human design chart. you know, we're talking about strategy and how we're waiting for the invitation. And then the other part to that is the authority and how we determine if that invitation is good for us. So you and I are both self-projected projectors. And so that the way that we operate is speaking out loud, seeing how our voice sounds, not necessarily the words that we say, but

what we're hearing when we say the things that we say, which has always been a little bit funny because there's times in my life where I've straight up said the opposite of what my voice said. Have you had that experience as well?

Meghan (14:19)
Yes, you're saying that when you're talking, the words coming out of your mouth end up being the opposite of what you really intend or mean.

Paula Pivaronas (14:31)
Yes.

Meghan (14:31)
Absolutely. And I can tell it in the moment where it's like, it feels like, okay, I'm talking. And then I have to just tell the other person on the other side, like, sorry, I actually need a pause because I don't think I meant exactly that. You know, it's so much listening, I guess, on the other side.

Paula Pivaronas (14:50)
which

I think is like so good and healthy to do because for the longest time I was just like, I'm just gonna move on from here and figure it out on the back end.

Meghan (14:57)
Ha ha ha!

Yeah, I was actually reading this morning a little bit about the Throat Energy Center and we can talk about what it means to have a defined or undefined center. And this is a book ⁓ by Richard Rudd, who the founder and author of the Gene Keys.

he founded the Gene Keys, he was an avid human design student. this is one of his books all on human design. And he talks about how the throat is the center that all of the energy is actually like trying to get to, in a sense. Like the throat is the center of manifestation. And part of being human is being in the world of manifesting things.

The quote is, the throat center is the primary focus of the entire human body graph. If you imagine that the body graph is a map of a town, then the throat center would be the center of the town. It's the most complex of all the centers having a total of 11 gates, and every single one of these gates has a voice. ⁓ In the body graph, all the energy flow is under pressure to get to the throat. And then he kind of just goes on to talking about how

everything about being a human being is about manifesting and that the throat is the

Manifestation Metamorphosis Center.

Paula Pivaronas (16:36)
Yeah, I think that makes sense. In my human design book, ⁓ it also says that it says it's connected to the thyroid metabolism, manifestation and expression. And I could see that being like kind of like the focus point of like everything coming together because that's how we communicate. ⁓ I think it's interesting in

your chart specifically, you have more design activation coming off of it than personality. And then I have a bit of the opposite. I have more, I actually don't have any design on my throat. It's all personality coming off. Yeah.

Meghan (17:23)
Interesting. See, and this is something I haven't dove into really at all. So tell me a little bit about personality versus design. I understand the time difference and where they get the information from, but what is the difference really between what we're talking about when we say personality and design?

Paula Pivaronas (17:42)
So personality is what you know yourself to be. If you think of astrology, it's like your sun sign. Like most people when they're talking astrology, it's like, oh, I'm a whatever. They're talking about their sun sign. So I relate personality like that. And then design is 88 days prior in the womb. So it's a different aspect of you and it's something that's more unconscious.

So personality is very conscious, design is very unconscious. ⁓ And so it's just kind of like it happens and you might not know that it's happening or you might not know that you do those things.

Meghan (18:24)
I see, I see. And so the entire body graph, which the body graph is the chart itself or the map of the body. ⁓ How, this is gonna maybe be hard for the listener if they're not looking at a picture of a body graph, but there's these nine centers in the body.

Some of them are defined, which means they're colored in. Some of them are undefined, which means they're not colored in. And then you have all these gates inside of each center, 64 total, right? ⁓ And then I've seen like the zodiac chart on the outside as well as the like hexagram or the I Ching chart on the outside and kind of like somehow.

Paula Pivaronas (18:57)
Mm-hmm.

Meghan (19:14)
How does the astrological chart fit in with the human design chart?

Paula Pivaronas (19:18)
Okay. Human design has so many levels and layers and different functions to it. And I am definitely still a student. ⁓ It's something that I just enjoy learning about and I enjoy learning in general. And I relate that to my Gemini Mercury, my Sun and Mercury. as far as it goes with the, so it's all following the

How do I want to say that? Like our seasons and everything, you know, all of astrology follows seasons. And if you're looking at the...

astrological guide, like anytime you look up your own astrology chart, it's going to start with your rising sign. So it's not necessarily how life is set up. Life is set up where it's, I think Aries is first and then goes around to.

Pisces, I wanna, no, Pisces? Aristah.

Meghan (20:25)
⁓ Is it Aries through

Capricorn?

Paula Pivaronas (20:30)
Because Aries isn't January, it's different than...

Sorry for my clicking.

Pisces, Aries to Pisces, which is interesting because it doesn't follow like January. Like our calendar is different from, yeah. And I think it starts by season because Aries is the start of spring. So they, that is the start. ⁓ And then also if you're looking at it in a circle, the top half is like morning. So like every hour has a sign as well. ⁓ And then going into.

Meghan (20:54)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Paula Pivaronas (21:16)
nighttime as well. So Pisces is like the endings of things. Like closure, they tend to be a little bit more dreamy and other realm like and then it starts into the to the Aries sign. So

when you look at your human design chart on the outside, I think it starts everybody. Yeah, the chart itself will start with Aries and then go around to Pisces. Let me make sure I'm saying that correctly.

Meghan (21:50)
Okay. Wow.

Paula Pivaronas (21:57)
Yeah, but it's running backwards. So that's interesting. I'll have to break that down.

Meghan (22:02)
It's running

backwards, like in what way?

Paula Pivaronas (22:06)
So when I'm looking at myomechanics, it has Aries, then Taurus, Gemini, Cancer. So it's like going this way rather than going this way. So I'll have to look into like why I haven't even thought to look at that without you saying that. So let's see what that entails.

Meghan (22:30)
Okay. I am looking forward to down the line, us talking about, that because, you know, I think something for me that stuck out was when I got introduced to human design, I actually was not thinking or feeling about astrology at all, but within a very short period of time, I did start making connections. ⁓ some of what I was sensing in my chart, my human design chart,

I started just kind of like glancing over at my birth chart, looking at, you know, different aspects of that and seeing how they do. Well, really for me, it wasn't even so much like my personal birth chart. was more like what's going on in my human design chart. What's going on in the world and what's kind of like the collective like astrology at the moment. And then I got pulled into my own personal birth chart, which is welcoming for those of us who

our students and who are quote unquote seeking. I think I've come to a place in my life where being a projector and accepting this about myself, that I am in a season of not needing to, there's nothing I need to like find out. It's more just like being open to.

discovering and connecting. For me, it's a lot of connecting dots. I don't know about, how does it feel for you? It's just like, I see the dots connecting everywhere. And it's like, I have no judgment about any system because I can tell you, I don't care if it's a Taylor Swift song, Ted Lasso, or what's happening in the stars right now, we can find some connections, you know? It's just there.

Paula Pivaronas (24:16)
Yeah, I do. love that. And I think too, like human design just emphasizes the fact that we're all so unique ⁓ because even twins have different charts ⁓ because every moment kind of changes things. So I think it's really neat to see and really neat to be able to like just look at the information and see how it how it sits with you.

Meghan (24:41)
Absolutely. So, this will just be kind of my comment and then we'll keep chatting about human design. But when I realized that the 64 gates inside of the human design chart or body graph were the same as the 64 gene keys were the same as the 64 hexagrams in the I Ching. And by the same, I don't mean the exact same, but like the same energy I think is really like where

I'm landing with it. It's like the 64. It's like 64 archetypes of sorts, right? and I think for, for me, and maybe like for people who like have talked to me or have listened to this podcast before or whatever, it's like, for me, it's not that the 64 archetypes are, it's part of the way we make sense, you know, it's like, it's part of the way we make meaning of things. And it's like how we,

connect our own life experience into language that makes sense, that we can have a shared language around some of these things. ⁓ But would you say that your love of astrology also, like our planets, in a sense, like archetypes, like constellations, or zodiac signs, like potentially like archetypes? And by archetypes, I guess I just mean like a collective.

unconscious agreement about like

a certain role or type that an entity plays or like a person or a character could play in a storyline.

Paula Pivaronas (26:25)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, because I immediately think of Big Daddy Saturn. If you're a Saturn-rolled chart, you know and everybody around you knows. So that just pokes out for sure immediately. But every sign has a chart roller. So like...

Meghan (26:31)
Yeah. ⁓

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Paula Pivaronas (26:52)
Copper corn and Aquarius are rolled by Saturn. Are you familiar with all the?

Meghan (26:58)
Not really. I I feel like I have heard in passing through different people, like, yeah, this planet rules these signs, but I couldn't tell you any of them. Yeah.

Paula Pivaronas (27:09)
Okay. Yeah, it's, it's interesting when you start to look at your astrology with the mindset of like, you know, this house is rolled by this or do you know your rising sign?

Meghan (27:26)
and shoot.

Paula Pivaronas (27:27)
Do I,

I'm sorry, I don't think we're, do I have you on the pattern?

Meghan (27:32)
you... I'm on the pattern. The pattern.

Paula Pivaronas (27:44)
just to be able to pull your.

Meghan (27:51)
I think I, I think, I'm friends with you on the pattern, or at least it looks like I am.

Paula Pivaronas (28:00)
⁓ okay. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Okay. So you're you're rising is Sagittarius.

Meghan (28:02)
Did you find me?

Paula Pivaronas (28:10)
⁓ Which is the sister sign to Gemini. So if you look, are you looking at your chart? So if you look at the first house and you'll have, you'll see the sign Sagittarius with the little arrow, with the two arrows, ⁓ right across from that is Gemini. So the easiest way to learn sister signs is just knowing what's opposing. ⁓ So like Aries and Libra, Taurus and Scorpio. ⁓

Meghan (28:23)
Right.

Paula Pivaronas (28:41)
Capricorn and cancer. Am I right in saying that? I feel like that's correct. ⁓

And then also if you look at the way that you're like what planets you have wears, because you have a lot of planets up in the top versus the bottom. ⁓

Meghan (29:02)
right.

Paula Pivaronas (29:07)
Got a lot of earth placements as far as ⁓ moon, Mars. So like all those things can mean different things. like Mercury, Rose, Virgo and Gemini. Mercury's like the little man running with the little ⁓ feathers on his feet or wings on his feet. So like, like the God Mercury, fast paced, always moving, always picking things up. so.

Meghan (29:29)
Okay. Uh-huh.

Paula Pivaronas (29:37)
⁓ It's also the planet of communication. So looking where your mercury is can tell you how to best communicate with people or how you best communicate. ⁓ Venus, I know you know this one because the gene keys has the Venus system cycle. How do you say it? Sequence, that's right. Okay, yeah. So ⁓ Venus is the planet of love and it, I want to say Taurus and Libra are rolled by Venus.

Meghan (29:46)
I see.

Sequence, yeah.

Paula Pivaronas (30:07)
And so ⁓ each of those planets has usually two signs that they roll. Aquarius does have two planets that roll. Aquarius, I want to say Pluto is the other one. But yeah, so it's like even astrology, like, you know, growing up, I feel like it was something that I enjoyed, but everyone was like, you could write anything and everyone would relate to it.

And now it's something that I'm like, but wait, like there's all these different layers to it. And so even though you could say this, you can also coordinate to other things, just like human design, like.

There's so many different layers.

Meghan (30:56)
Yeah, for sure. So one of the layers I wanted to make sure to talk about, because I think it's one of the more practical. strategy or sorry, type strategy and authority. Everyone who's listening, if you don't know those, like go get those for yourself and you can do a deep dive into what that means for you. But this.

language of defined and undefined. I feel like it's important, but before we can really talk about that, think, like, I want to point out that

In my research and in my studies before finding human design, I did quite a bit of work in and around the seven energy system chakra system. And so it's that visual that a lot of people know about the chakra system, from root to sacral, solar plexus, heart, throat, third eye, and crown. And... ⁓

I remember getting like Reiki certified, just level one. didn't go too much deeper into it, but like I remember that being a very important part of the Reiki training. I have my yoga training certification, very important part of studying yoga and being able to teach yoga is understanding these different energy centers. But in the human design experiment, so to speak, I've heard it referred to as that. ⁓ There's this.

understanding that we moved back in the late 1700s, I think 1781 or something like that, To from a seven system energy being to a nine center energy being. Do you know, do you have anything to share about that? Like, I mean, what was that? Why did we move from seven to nine? Like what's happening to humans? Um, have you, I guess, that much thought or?

Paula Pivaronas (32:30)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

you

Meghan (32:55)
your

Paula Pivaronas (32:55)
Yeah,

totally. ⁓ So.

We...

I think as a collective, we were super mind focused in the seven centered beings. In 1781, there was a split and the nine centered came into play creating the projector. So there was no such thing as a projector prior to that. And I think I see it as like the balance of the universe.

We had lived this way, we had manifestors rolling and it was time for a switch. It was time for us to become more, there's a word that they use in here or like a description that they use. ⁓ Yeah, it says to become more sophisticated, inner directed, nine centered transitional forms. So it was to bring us back into the body.

and have that inner knowing for us. And then over time, like more and more projectors are born. We're still a minority as far as like the different systems go, ⁓ mostly because we need massive amounts of generators and manifesting generators with that sacral energy. ⁓

to keep things going, to keep ideas alive. ⁓ But the projector was born to analyze systems, see how to make those systems better. And so it's very important for projectors. So if you go and look up your chart and you find that you are a projector, it's important to have a pretty good understanding of human design. ⁓

And I love that you said the experiment. It's definitely something that should be experimented with to see how it feels for you. But projectors are the next leaders and we're working towards that being leaders. So they're here to figure out systems, rework systems and make things different and do things in a way that maybe haven't been able to be seen.

by other people yet.

Meghan (35:35)
Yeah, I, when I first started hearing about what a projector is and like what sets them apart from the other profile types, I had never felt more seen, you know, I had never felt more recognized. I was like, ⁓ wow, like this, just, makes so much sense. Like it didn't automatically like fix anything for me, like in terms of like,

daily life, but like just within myself, I started feeling so much more at peace with my approach to everything really like the reason why I take everything like a little bit deeper, a little bit like more intently and really like I feel like I sit with things just a little bit more.

intentionally or thoughtfully because I'm not just sitting with whatever it is like something happens to me or someone says something or I read something it doesn't matter what input it is I just I've always enjoyed taking my time with it and then letting it evolve

and not taking whatever the input was just at strictly face value. I needed to go deeper and I didn't know why I needed to go deeper. It wasn't like I was planning to be a professor at a university or it wasn't like I was planning on ⁓ necessarily teaching everything I was studying. It just felt like I had to study it. I had to study it because I guess now I feel like I had to study these things and I still study these things.

So that as my time comes and as our time continues to come as projectors to take those reins of leadership and lead our world into a new type of world, right? ⁓ are entering into some really like uncharted territories where the way things have been led in the past aren't going to be the way things are led in the future.

It's just, it's gonna be different, you know? And someone can come at that thought or that belief or that idea with fear or anxiety, or they can come at it with, truly with power, with belief, with being a sense of, you know.

self and groundedness and like, no, I'm still gonna be me in the future, right? Like, no matter what happens, like, I'm still gonna be me and I'm still gonna have things to offer and I'm still gonna have things to share and like our world can continue to improve itself with each other and with the way we treat each other in relationship and in our planet or as a planet and with our planet and yeah, but like,

I feel that 100 % and that projector in me felt so seen when I started reading about what it meant to be a projector. I was like, oh yeah, that's me. Like, I can try, you know? So how did it feel for you? Like, I mean, did it, when you found out you were a projector, like, I mean, did you, did it, how did you feel?

Paula Pivaronas (38:54)
just trying to think how I felt. ⁓

Meghan (38:58)
Or how do you feel about being a projector even?

Paula Pivaronas (39:00)
I love it. I love it because it encouraged me to do a lot more reading, a lot more processing, a lot. I have a, this is gonna be kind of going into defined and undefined, but I, as a projector who's, ⁓

my God, just, what? Yes, thank you. I'm like, I just lost my train of thought. No, so that means the G center up is usually what's defined in that type of chart. For me, it's just my throat in my G center. ⁓ So the root center, which is at the very bottom, it's a pressure center, and my chart is undefined. So it's an area that I can...

feel from other people are kind of like, it's kind of like a playground when I'm around other people with a defined root. But for me, it is open and it's heavily activated. So I have a lot of channels off of it, even though it is undefined. So in that sense, in my chart, that's the area that is going to have the most conditioning. And with that, the root center,

not self theme is always in a hurry to be free of the pressure. And that has been such a theme in my life. And also just that the household that I grew up in, it was like, if you're not doing something, then you're so unproductive. And like, what are you doing? And it's my sister just sent me a whole like, Instagram reel about that. Like, what do you it's like a guy talking to himself, like, what are you doing? You're not doing anything like you need to get up and be productive.

And that has been like an overarching thing for me. So it has given me the ability to look and see that is not for me. I don't have to succumb to that. I can take this as I need to. I can say no. I can step away. I can I can just be if I need to be. And not to say that I'm like, I'm so good at that. No, I have to remind myself of that all the time. But it's

It's knowledge that I now have and that I hold and that can help me to not go back into that conditioning.

Meghan (41:27)
It's, that's huge. Like the freedom, sounds like the awareness that you have has started to create this freedom. And it almost sounds like now it's like just this, and it feels this way for me, this practicing of the awareness so that I have, I embody the freedom to make new choices or different choices, you know? It's like, so I'm aware.

Paula Pivaronas (41:54)
Yeah.

Meghan (41:55)
And then I have, you as a projector, don't have, it's defined. We don't have a defined motor, right? Like we don't have any of these. So in the nine energy centers, there are four motors, right? and those four motors are, I guess what I understand about them is that they are self generating with energy to produce. mean, am I saying that right?

Paula Pivaronas (42:20)
Yeah, so the motor systems have more of a physical energy. The sacral is the only true motor. There are projectors who do have the spleen or the solar plexus activated. And in those cases, they have a motor. So I have talked to other projectors who have a motor to find and it's like, are you sure you're a projector?

How do you have this energy? ⁓ one of my friends in Asheville is a splenic, 6-2 splenic projector. And she, was like, I don't understand. Like you're like on it like all the time. And I just don't know how you do it. Like I told her a bunch of times, like, I think you should just rest. Just rest, just take some time to yourself. She's like, no, I'm good. I'm like, okay. ⁓ And then I learned that, you know,

sacral is like, yes, the heavy energy center. If you have a sacral defined, then you are a manifesting generator or a generator. ⁓ But there are other types that do have the other motors. And so it's interesting to like, watch.

Meghan (43:37)
Yeah,

yeah. I think just to circle back and close the loop on the seven to nine center energy being ⁓ because the seven center energy system has been so taught, right? it is now at least, okay, growing up in a Christian household, I was not introduced to the seven.

chakra energy system. But when I started expanding outside of just one religion and starting to study other, not just religions, but other philosophies, other cultures, you know, kind of going further east, right? Like I did, I started immediately hearing about the seven center energy system and not chakra system. And so with that being said, I feel like it served

and serves but served a very good purpose, right? Like it did teach people, at least that I knew and know of, about how to take care of themselves to a certain degree, right? That there are ways that you can have blocked energy, that you can ⁓ limit yourself, that you, you know.

Just even knowing that you even that seven energy centers even exist is helpful, right? Like what does it mean to like be in survival mode versus like leading from your heart and like What's the power behind the solar plexus? What's the what's the? ⁓ Creation energy behind the sacral right like there there's all these different things that I learned following the seven ⁓ system energy system chakra system

So I'm not here to bash that in any way. I just think it has been enlightening and super cool to go deeper and to speed up to now, to modern time, because something I'm very passionate about is talking about how evolution isn't something that like happened and then now we're just stuck with the current.

evolution and we will never evolve again. No, we are literally evolving. Like it's a process and then there are, there's a word for it. It's a science word. There are these points in time where the evolution that has been percolating in a species then leaps and just changes almost what feels like overnight. ⁓

So it's not like, always wondered that actually, like when learning about evolution, I wasn't taught evolution as a kid. And I don't think you were either, but like, I don't know actually, but I was taught, you know, like humans were humans and apes were apes and whatever. But like, I guess what I'm saying is like, I always had the problem of like, but where are all the in-between species, right? Well, come to find out the more they study evolution, the more it's like, yeah, things evolve. But then like,

There's like a dying off of the old way and an incoming of the new species. And then now you're just living with a new species, right? And so, or a new transformed species of all species. I share that because I feel like that's what human designs, like it's a prophecy of sorts too, right? Like ⁓ kind of the human design prophecy is saying is that like, we are evolving.

We have evolved in 1781, we evolved also as a species, but also projectors came into the world. That was the same time that one of the planets was, one of the planets was found, oh, it's a Uranus because like, Uranus is the projector planet. And that was the same year that Uranus was discovered. And that's the same year that projectors came into the world. Because the consciousness opened that up.

Paula Pivaronas (47:14)
Hmm.

Mmm.

Meghan (47:32)
is like how I interpret it. It's not like, I don't know, you know, there's different ways of looking at it, but it's like we, our consciousness as a humanity opened up a discovery of something in the skies that we hadn't discovered before, which by the way is happening now. Like even this month that we're sitting in, right? In the past months, since August, I think, or maybe even earlier,

We had like 3i Atlas coming through the skies, you know, and then it was like behind the sun and now it's on the other side of the sun. And I haven't been keeping up with all of this, but like when people discovered 3i Atlas back a few months ago, astronomers discovered it. They were like, this is an interstellar object. It's called 3i because it's the, it's only the third interstellar object we have ever seen with the human telescopes. ⁓

Like it didn't come from our solar system. came from outside of our solar system and it's going so fast that it's not going to get wrapped up in our orbit. Like the gravity is not going to be able to do its thing on this comet because it's going so fast. ⁓ So from what I understand, and you're the expert on astrology, but from what I understand, it's like when humans discover new things in the skies or really in any kind of like

new awareness scientifically, it's like it unlocks something inside of us. Like it unlocks something as a collective that we can now access maybe a truth or a wisdom or a knowledge that we otherwise wouldn't have been able to access before we discovered that thing.

Paula Pivaronas (49:15)
Yeah, think growing up in a Christian home ⁓ put a lot of things in like black or white perspective, at least from my perspective, rather than it being like life is full of all these beautiful different shades of gray, for a lack of better term. But ⁓ I think that's something that I've embraced over time is, you know, I do think that

we are evolving. I've seen it in dentistry, actually. I'm an expanded functions dental assistant. So I've been in the dental field for 20 years and more and more people are coming in and they don't have wisdom teeth coming in. It started like when I was getting my wisdom teeth out at 16. It'd be like, oh, this person only has three. And then it was like, they only have two. And so like over the last 20 years,

we've started to see an increase in people not having wisdom teeth because it's something that we're just evolving away from the way that our food is made. It's not something that we need anymore. And so it's like little things like that, that just like kind of hint towards the fact that we are changing as people. And I think sometimes that people want to label things as good or bad rather than it just being.

and ⁓ or having to have some kind of ⁓ definition to it that allows it to be some sort of way per se. ⁓ yeah, so I do think I think it's good that we're evolving. I think it's good that we're moving forward. I love growth and I've tried to maintain that as like an overarching theme. And I think that. Yeah.

Meghan (50:55)
So.

Paula Pivaronas (51:14)
I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

Meghan (51:16)
I know that's good. Yeah, that's good. so, and this might be a topic for a whole other conversation, but if that happened in 1781, what is happening in 2027 and why is there so much talk in and around the human design system about the year 2027?

Paula Pivaronas (51:36)
⁓ I think there's a lot of systems who are talking about 2027 ⁓ because I've even noticed in like Christianity, I've heard people talking about it as well. And I'm not sure of the ties in that particular stream, but a lot of people are talking about the year 2027. I think that what's beautiful about life is that we can

get information from so many different things, whether it be astrology, human design, the gene keys, wherever you want to pull from. I do think that there's truth in a lot of things. ⁓ But 2027 is supposed to be a change of the incarnation cross. So from what I understand, we're moving away from like family planning and into ⁓ the individual. And so

There's a lot of speculation as to what that's going to look like and how that's going to play out. I think it's...

I think speculation and thinking about it is fun if you leave it in a bubble of like, you know, this could happen, that could happen and that sort of thing. think sometimes especially in the world and the culture that we've grown up in, it can kind of get pulled into a worrying, fear-based situation. ⁓

So I think, yeah, I it's hopeful. I think that there's a lot of hope because it can sound very isolating talking about going into the individual phase, but I don't think that it's gonna be isolating. I think there's a lot of room for hope and change and... ⁓

You know, just especially if...

projectors come into themselves, I think.

The way that we can see a lot of change in the world is when people start to dive into themselves and do the work that they need to do, ⁓ because that's going to allow room for people to recognize those people. One or two projectors can't do all of the work themselves. It's definitely a collective thing.

if projectors kind of take that leap to move forward with that, then I think it's a trickle system, because typically we have a lot of people in our lives. I see that as like the way that we can make change too. as a person living in this world, the biggest way that you can make change is touching other people in your immediate direct community and life and in every day.

⁓ So I think, I hope that projectors start to, or people start to look up their charts and understand different things so that we can move forward and start to recognize the people who can start to make the change for us.

Meghan (55:07)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's an invitation to I feel like what you just offered or extended was an is an invitation for people to dig in and like, look at what what does your chart say about you? Like you may or may not.

It may or may not click right away. You may or may not agree right away. You like whatever, but it's, it's just like, like you said, it doesn't have to be like this black and white thing of like, this, the chart says this about me. And this is like gospel truth. It's like, no, the chart says this about you. How does that show up in your life or does it can it will it has it ever? Like, you know, it's just, to me, it's a tool.

Paula Pivaronas (55:57)
You

Meghan (56:00)
or inquiry. a tool for it's it's not it's like not about the body graph or the or the chart. It's about your life. Like the body graph is a map. The body graph is a tool to reflect.

on your life, but it's not your life. Like you are your life. You're the one living your life. You're the one in relationship with people. You're the one working, doing the career you have, or spending time the way you spend time. It's like the chart is just like, it's just something to ponder or as one of my favorite authors would say, Richard Rudd, it's something to contemplate. Just like contemplate it, you know?

It doesn't mean you have to accept it, just contemplate it and see how it lands. ⁓ I think that's one of my favorite things about all of this is just like, yeah, because there is so much like you started this, like there's just so much there's layers and layers of human design ⁓ information. And this wasn't just created by a person who just sat down and like came up with this whole system. This was like a down this was like a channeled download from

a higher power of like this, I need all this data and information and like to come through into a form and raw would just happen to be the one to like down, you know, get the download and put it all out into form. Right. I mean, that's kind of how I. Yeah.

Paula Pivaronas (57:28)
Yeah,

yeah, it was like a download. think it was like over three days and in Ibiza and yeah, it was a collective, like there's multiple things. There's astrology, there's the I Ching and I see it as like a guide. So I think the most important thing is if you have not looked at your chart, at least look at your strategy and authority and see how that feels for you and experiment with it.

That's like the biggest word for human design is experimentation. Experiment with it, see how it works for you. ⁓ Because experimenting with your authority is going to show you pretty quickly.

Like ⁓ it took me a while to understand self-projected ⁓ because it's a smaller ⁓ amount of people and I tried to like follow many people that I felt connected to with human design, but there's so much information out there. So if you look up your authority and start following people in whatever platform that you use and just see how they.

experiment with their strategy, that's going to be super helpful.

Meghan (58:51)
Yeah, you just inspired me maybe to just go ahead and put in my bios like what my human design is, like 6-2 self-projective projector. I do that in some of the smaller groups, like more private groups in my bio that would get it, but like I don't have that on my Instagram account, but I might just put it out there just so people know.

Paula Pivaronas (59:10)
I did

it and then I deleted it, but I'm gonna put it back there because it makes more sense. And I might've done it on my design page, yeah. I do think things like that spark interest in other people, like, what is that? And then might lead them to things that they wanted to learn.

Meghan (59:27)
Yeah.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Are you good on time for a couple more questions? Do we need a break or anything like that? No? Okay. So in terms of...

Paula Pivaronas (59:40)
Totally.

You

Meghan (59:50)
defined and undefined. There's these, the nine energy centers can be either defined or undefined in a person or in a chart, but then all of the gates inside of those energy centers can also be defined and undefined. ⁓ And you can have defined gates inside of undefined energy centers. I know I have one energy center that has no defined gates either. So it's like a completely open energy center. ⁓

which is the...

Paula Pivaronas (1:00:22)
Ego.

Meghan (1:00:23)
the eagle. What does this mean? What does it mean to a completely undefined energy center?

Paula Pivaronas (1:00:33)
I think from what I understand, having open centers, ⁓ undefined centers open, ⁓ it's areas that you can feel from other people. It's not something that you spark energy in. It's something that you can feel. And like they use the word playground. So it's something that you can kind of like feel and experience, but it's not something for you to take home. ⁓ So if you were to come in contact,

with someone who has their ego defined, you would probably feel it a little bit stronger than ⁓ two defined egos coming together, if that makes sense.

Meghan (1:01:12)
Okay,

it does make sense. is it, am I also understanding that because of the encouragement that when a person finds human design, that they potentially could be sparking a seven year deconditioning process. So I kinda wanna like talk about conditioning and deconditioning.

in relation to defined and undefined because if I'm understanding correctly, it's like our open centers, the undefined centers are the ways that we also get conditioned growing up basically. That we're around all these people and they're all putting their defined energy of that center into us and we're kind of latching on and plugging in however we plug into other people's, in my case, ego, let's just say. ⁓ But then,

If we decondition ourselves, now it's a playground to figure out how do I want to show up in this way? What do you think?

Paula Pivaronas (1:02:17)
So open centers that have ⁓ defined channels coming off of them are areas that you may experience more conditioning. So for you, your root center. So when I was speaking to the pressure to always be in a hurry to be free of that pressure, ⁓ that can be an area. But those areas are... ⁓

They're areas that are not activated or have energy. So it's not something that you naturally pull from, ⁓ but they are what you can experience. So that is definitely an area of conditioning for us. So if you look at your chart and you an area that maybe you feel like, how do I wanna describe that?

Hmm.

I don't know how to embody that description of like, feeling other people's energy. The easiest one for anyone who doesn't have their sacral defined is being around a generator or a manifesting generator. Go to the gym. Do you feel like energized when you go to the gym and it's packed in there because there's probably a lot of generators and manifesting generators in there.

but that's gonna be for someone who's not used to putting focus or, yeah, focus on different areas of their body graph, that's the easiest one to feel. And if you have a defined sacral...

and probably being around the opposite as well, just knowing what that feels like to experience someone who doesn't have that or to see what it's like to.

have conversation versus being in the room with someone that has that sacral defined.

Meghan (1:04:39)
I read this morning, I told you I felt inspired to read a little bit and when that comes, I try to listen. And I read this morning that the definition is like where we really can rely. Like we can rely on ourselves. We can...

trust that those defined centers and those defined gates are going to be there for us, like that we don't have to like strive for them. We don't really need to worry about whether they're going to be available or not because they're like, they're ours. They're, that's our uniqueness. It's our unique, yeah, our unique print in the world, so to speak. And that it's our undefined areas, like are the ones that first and foremost, creating awareness around like,

It's not that we don't have the energy center. The energy center exists. It is undefined and potentially conditioned. So I think I'm even trying to get even like more clear for myself. And this is me being the self projector, just talking it out. But like, I'm trying to get even more clear for myself. It's 1 11 on my clock. I know you're an hour ahead, but I love to see that. ⁓

the difference between, not even the difference, the sameness as I, maybe I'm operating like I have a defined center when I really don't, but I'm operating like I do because I am conditioned with someone else's.

imprint on that so to speak. Or I'm plugged into someone else's either a previous relationship or a previous teaching or a previous something. So that's why the deconditioning process is so important to like really free up and to realize like no like that's not mine. Like how I was operating in that way

with someone else's or was a system that I, that wasn't mine to, plug into whatever it is. then like owning the fact that no, it is a playground for me. can now choose intentionally and purposefully about how I play in that energy center. ⁓ who I play with, like what this is like, how does it show up in my life in a way that's intentional and purposeful, not in a way that is by default, I guess, just because I'm alive and around other people.

Paula Pivaronas (1:07:15)
Yes. So most of us, a lot of people do not spend enough time alone to the deconditioning process is just as much being in your own aura or your own auric field as it is understanding and being aware of the things that you can be conditioned in. so Ra is big on

coming up with different ways that you can be in your own aura more often, the biggest one is sleeping alone, which is like always sparks an interesting conversation. But for however many hours, I like to get nine personally, for nine hours a night, if you're laying next to someone, you're constantly in their auric presence and you're.

your body graph is constantly being affected by their body graph. And so that conditioning is unconscious. It's happening whether you want it to or not, because you're there, you're in it. And I think that it's a common belief that your field is like your arm's length, and then some. But the way that I found personally,

that helped me was to start that process of sleeping alone and I've done that for.

at least over two years now. ⁓ So that's just an easy, it's, is it easy sometimes, because like a lot of people have partners and then having that conversation like, hey, I don't wanna sleep in bed with you because you're hindering me. Sorry, but. ⁓

Meghan (1:08:53)
Bye.

you

Paula Pivaronas (1:09:15)
Now I do think that it's a conversation that you have to navigate if it's something that you want to do, but it's really helpful to not have those eight, nine hours a night in someone else's presence. ⁓ And in doing so, because I mean, during the day, most of us, especially now everyone's going back into the office, we have to be surrounded by other people's presence. We have to be in other people's orc fields. And so,

⁓ Yeah, just getting that time to where you can let everything kind of like flow out. I've seen a lot of people who do like an energy clearing for themselves. And, you know, you can do that, but like you, you need to give your body and your system enough time to like, let go of those things. And then in doing so over time, you'll be able to feel different people's

centers. For example, when I met my boyfriend, we spent like eight or nine hours on our first date together. And when we were sitting across from each other, I could feel I was like there's without a doubt he has his head center defined. Like I can feel that in my body because I got like a ⁓ twinge of a headache and it wasn't like a dehydration or anything. I was just like there he's he's got it.

And when I later looked up his chart, he does have that defined. So it's something that like, if I didn't do that deconditioning process of just like being alone, sleeping alone, like having that alone time, I think it would be harder for me to like pinpoint or feel or recognize when I feel someone else having a defined center.

Meghan (1:11:05)
Absolutely, that makes so much sense. So there are people being born and who have been born that have every single energy center defined. And then there are people who have none of the energy centers defined. Those are known as reflectors, right? Just briefly, like, you have anything to say about either one of those? like, it seems like that would be a very unique.

Paula Pivaronas (1:11:22)
Yes.

Meghan (1:11:32)
person to have either all of them defined or none of them defined. guess for the let's start with all of them defined like have you seen many charts with people with all of them defined by chance or do you?

Paula Pivaronas (1:11:44)
You know what's great? This program lets me filter charts. we can look. And anytime I've done a reading, I've done it with this program. So I have a lot of different things to pull from.

Meghan (1:11:50)
minutes.

Paula Pivaronas (1:12:02)
So let's do definition now.

Hmm.

It doesn't actually have one that has the centers. ⁓ Will they be like?

Meghan (1:12:16)
Is it like,

or what does it let you filter by?

Paula Pivaronas (1:12:20)
I can do it by type, can do it by profile, so I looked up how many 6'2 people I know. I should have been putting last names in here, but that's okay. ⁓

Yeah, I would have to do a little bit more digging. I don't know that I've met anyone with every single center defined.

I do think that there's a sense of like, just when you do meet someone who has a lot of deaf defined centers, they're very...

I don't want to say sure of themselves because I think there's a lot of people who aren't, but it's more like whether they know it or not. It's very obvious that they kind of like, you know what I mean? you did.

Meghan (1:13:19)
Yeah,

I know I'm thinking of one person in particular who has all of them except for one defined and even that person. I don't know anyone either. I haven't seen anyone to chart anyway that is all 100 % defined in terms of the centers, but even this person who has all of them but one. Yeah, sometimes I'm just like. It's surprising to me because I only I have my head defined my Ajna defined.

my throat defined and then my g-center defined. So it's like all of this and

That means I have five other centers that are not defined. And I feel like I can tell that. Whereas like in my observation of this person that has eight out of nine, they have a lot of questions about things, because it's their head that's undefined. ⁓

Paula Pivaronas (1:14:16)
Mmm.

Meghan (1:14:18)
So a lot of questions, a lot of curiosities, a lot of doubt, a lot of seeking, a lot of that. But for the most part, just daily life, practical living, let's go. They don't really feel paralyzed or anything. They're just like, let's go. ⁓ So interesting.

Paula Pivaronas (1:14:36)
Yeah, so like the not self theme of the head center is thinking about things that don't matter. And so a lot of times as people do get wrapped up into like, you know, thinking about all different kinds of things and it's like, come back.

Meghan (1:14:52)
Okay,

so the not self theme, does that automatically show up if a center is undefined? how does that, when does the not self theme show up?

Paula Pivaronas (1:14:55)
Mm-hmm.

⁓

Yeah, specifically in the Maya mechanics, ⁓ you can click on an open center and it will tell you ⁓ what it means to have a not. I just click. Yes, the not self theme. And that is something that's like one of the more.

Meghan (1:15:19)
Not self.

Paula Pivaronas (1:15:27)
Like if I'm doing a reading, I'm going through the type, the strategy, the authority, and also not self themes of areas of conditioning. So I just think that that's super helpful.

Meghan (1:15:41)
Yeah, okay, so I'm gonna go explore more about like the not self theme because I also think just like strategy type and authority is so empowering once you like really know it and you can kind of start seeing how it shows up in your life and experimenting with it. I also think the not self theme is a huge part of that. In any of the centers, but like even just like for us, like bitterness being the not self theme as like for our overall profile.

Paula Pivaronas (1:16:03)
Yeah.

Meghan (1:16:11)
like I can look back and think and feel about so many times I felt bitter and I'm not this isn't like Meg patting herself on the back but like I haven't felt bitter in a hot minute you know because like I'm really living like I feel like I'm really practicing like just my own personal success of like what it means to be me and like I have no place to feel bitter right now because if I feel if I were to feel bitter

then I just know there's something inside of me that needs to change. It's not something about the person that I'm feeling bitter around or the situation or whatever. It's like, no, I'm the one who needs to shift my lens, shift something inside of me so that I don't feel bitter because, you know, like that's me not being me if I do.

Paula Pivaronas (1:16:57)
Yeah, absolutely. I think that's such a great...

like learning experience for life. ⁓

It brings me to like the four agreements. Have you read that book? Yeah. So like, and I think of it like I can't control anything other than me and what I'm doing. And so yeah, it's nice to be able to like reflect in and change perspective and pinpoint where that's coming from and be able to navigate that in the future if something comes up that's kind of similar.

Meghan (1:17:42)
Absolutely.

⁓

Kind of starting to wrap up here. Is there anything astrologically or in human design that is on your heart right now that you feel like is important to tell people that maybe that we didn't specifically talk about today? Just any, guess, like not forecast necessarily, but just, yeah, anything that seems like last words from you on

the collective.

energy that is out there at the moment.

Paula Pivaronas (1:18:26)
I haven't looked at like what's coming yet. We just went through a full moon in Gemini, which was pretty cool. And that like, just, find full moons, no matter what sign it is in to be very cleansing and a great time to just release what doesn't work.

and re-center and refocus. And I think that's something with like just the seasons of life being able to, it's gonna come every 28 to 30 days. You're gonna have a chance to be brought back into that awareness of like, okay, let me release and move forward. But as far as anything coming up, I just have hope for the future.

Meghan (1:19:20)
Me too. Yeah, me too. I feel very hopeful. I feel very supported by the truth. I think something about truth is that we, the more we work toward understanding truth for ourselves, the more, I guess, just stable I feel in the sense that I can read

I can study, can ⁓ basically keep what is true and leave what maybe is not true for me right now and move forward. Basically, I guess what I'm saying is that the truth that I'm feeling right now of what the future will hold and the hope and all these things, it feels like...

a mass shift of consciousness is like on the planet that we're all doing together, you know, and I'm not saying that there won't be people who, you know, are like anti whatever it is, but like, I also feel like those of us who are choosing love for the core and like the epicenter of like all of our happenings and all of our choices.

I think it's A Course in Miracles, to be honest with you, that says ⁓ nothing real or true can be threatened and nothing unreal exists. Herein lies the peace of God. It's like, I can get down with that. Nothing real can be threatened. Okay, cool. I'm here for it. Nothing unreal exists.

Paula Pivaronas (1:20:56)
Yeah.

Meghan (1:21:10)
I'm just gonna keep living out my truth as much as possible. And ⁓ being able to chat with you about these things is a big part of me living out my truth. So thank you for being willing to hop on here and do this with me. ⁓ I would love to have you back if that's ⁓ on your radar at all. And we can go in more specifics about any of the elements of human design or astrology. But is there...

anywhere or any offering. Like if someone wanted to get their chart, could they reach out to you? Or like, are you doing that right now? Like tell us just a little bit about like how people can get connected with you and what they might get if they do reach out to you.

Paula Pivaronas (1:21:51)
Yeah, absolutely. ⁓ I have a Instagram handle, Divine Design Paula. And so you can reach out on there. You can find charts for free online for the most part. They kind of redact some information, ⁓ but I have a system that I can send extra info if you're interested. And yeah, get the conversation started and we can talk about things. Thank you for letting me be a part of this and talk and...

have a nice open communication and I look forward to more.

Meghan (1:22:25)
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, Paula. Appreciate you so much. I hope you have an awesome day and to all of our listeners, many blessings and I hope you have a month of December or whenever you're listening to this. Maybe you're listening to it in 2026. I hope it's been a good start and we'll talk to you

on.