How MMAD (Musicians Making a Difference) Uses Music And Mentoring To Transform Young Lives

In this episode of No Ordinary People, Jade sits down with Dominic Brook, founder of MMAD (Musicians Making a Difference), to explore how love, resilience and external belief can combine to change the course of a life.

Dom grew up with a single mum doing her best under complex and often difficult circumstances. While love was always present, stability and consistency weren’t always possible — a reality shared by many families navigating structural and social pressures.

A turning point came when a neighbour stepped in with belief, safety and a guitar — offering not replacement, but reinforcement. That simple act became a catalyst, and later the foundation for MMAD: a model built on the idea that one additional caring adult can shift outcomes for a young person for life.

Today, MMAD works alongside young people living with deep disadvantage — including those navigating the child protection and youth justice systems — using music as a bridge to trust, expression and long‑term change. From early, messy hip‑hop camps to Futures Radio broadcasting from inside youth justice centres, Dom has built more than a program. He’s built a world where young people are seen, accepted, and supported to imagine a future beyond their past.

Together, Jade and Dom unpack:

• Dom’s formative years, instability and the search for a mentor
• The neighbour who gifted a guitar — and modelled belief when it mattered most
• Building early hip‑hop camps and the messy, courageous beginnings of MMAD
• Why music connects when young people have shut down from everything else
• Creating a safe “MMAD world” built on trust, acceptance and possibility
• How programs grow skills, self‑belief and durable pathways — not quick fixes
• Real stories of young people reframing identity and breaking cycles
• Futures Radio and changing the inputs inside youth justice
• The case for prevention, early intervention and smarter public investment

This is a conversation about belonging, identity, and what becomes possible when systems stop asking “what’s wrong with you?” and start asking “what happened — and what do you need now?”

Learn more about MMAD:
🌐 https://mmad.org.au
📱 Instagram: @MMADAustralia (DMs open)

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No Ordinary People is produced by Jade Harley, Director of Impact at UnLtd.
This podcast shares the real stories of charity founders driving change for children and communities across Australia, especially those impacted by trauma, poverty, racism, and family and domestic violence.

Every story is a reminder: hope is built one small act at a time.

Brand identity and cover design created by my beautiful friends at Cocogun.

Got a story to share or want to get involved? Reach out to jade@unltd.org.au
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Connect: Instagram @noordinarypeople_podcast and LinkedIn www.linkedin.com/in/jadeharley

Transcript

Jade Harley: 00:06
Welcome to No Ordinary People. I'm Jade, and I'm on a mission to give positivity a voice by sharing stories of everyday people doing extraordinary things. They're a reminder of the power we all have to make the world a better place. I'd like to start by acknowledging the Gamaragal people of the Eora Nation as the traditional custodians of this land we're recording on today. I honour their continuing connection to land, waters, and culture and pay my respects to elders past and present. I acknowledge that sovereignty was never ceded and that this always was and always will be Aboriginal land. I extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples joining us today. Today's guest is Dominic Brook, the founder of MMAD, Musicians Making a Difference. From working in juvenile justice to building a national charity that uses music and mentoring to transform young lives, Dom has seen firsthand what love, belonging, and purpose can do for kids facing disadvantage. And now he's pioneering Futures Radio, an innovative station inside youth justice centre's that's rewriting the narrative for young people behind bars. Let's get into it, Dom. Welcome to the show.

Dominic Brook: 01:18
I'm so excited to be on this show.

Jade Harley: 01:26
Before we dive into MMAD, I want you to take me back. What was young Dom like? What were those formative years like for you?

Dominic Brook: 01:33
Well, hello, everybody. Thanks for joining. Formative years were sporadic. Moved around probably 13 or 14 different places to the age of 16, lived in a few different countries, lived with aunties, mums, another auntie, lived in an ashram, lived on the street a little bit in India. There's bits of everything. Lived in the northern beaches, Double Bay. So I went from like these glamorous areas to these crazy areas to these. Yeah. So I was, it was, it was sporadic, with probably hard to find that sense of home.

Jade Harley: 02:07
And what were you missing that, you know, in hindsight? What do you what were you missing? What were you looking for?

Dominic Brook: 02:13
It was probably, to be honest, you know, a mentor or someone who believed in me, because I didn't have a father figure. I was just with my mum, a single mum. So I was looking for, as a kid, you don't really know what you're looking for, but if I look in hindsight, I think I, you know, growing up in year three, four in Goa, India, with such freedom and working with a lot of poverty and at-risk. I didn't know at the time; it was just my worldview, like hanging out with these kids on the street. And it j I think it shaped me in a big way, especially going to the ashram and seeing different cultures. So in the midst of the storm and the, you know, the chaotic mess of it all in some ways, there were lots of lessons, I think, that I subconsciously learned.

Jade Harley: 02:59
Yeah.

Dominic Brook: 02:59
Which I'm really thankful for now.

Jade Harley: 03:02
I know during that period, because we've talked about it, there was someone in your life who really believed in you. And I know that that had a big impact on your life and the 

Jade Harley: 03:10
and the sort of trajectory that you followed. Can you tell me a little bit about that person and what they did?

Dominic Brook: 03:15
Great. So I was at this point, I'd moved to many places and then I'd moved to the Blue Mountains, I was in Katoomba for a bit, and in one of these big housing commission units, which was a little bit scary, come to think of it, in hindsight, what went on there. But yeah, I moved to Blacksland and to another lower Blue Mountains, and there was a lot going on with my stepdad or mum's boyfriend. I don't need to go into detail, but it wasn't a it didn't feel like a safe environment. So it was, and I was probably getting into trouble in a few places because I lacked probably direction. And it was a next door neighbor that that kept talking to me. I thought she was a bit crazy, you know. I was going off doing my thing at school parties or whatever I was up to, naughty things I was up to. And she just kept like, you know, seeing me saying hi and and just I don't know, she was just really positive but crazy energy. And there was one day actually where I started, this is after I started, I wrote my first rap song with only rappers back back then. It was all kind of rock in the 90s. And I thought, gosh, it'd be good to learn a guitar or an instrument and be able to to write my own songs. And it was weird. That afternoon, that next door neighbor, I went over when I got a bit bored and she was throwing out a guitar and she was like, I I've been, you know, been hoping and wishing that I could give this to someone who would use it. And I said, That's so weird. I was just thinking about it. So, you know, it was that, but then from there, when I started to spark and and find that maybe I could do something with my life and starting to find some purpose, which she really opened in in my life, believed in me, gave me that guitar, paid for me to go to one of my first camps, a songwriting camp. And she was a big, big spiritual, crazy energy. We've all probably met someone like that. But it was kind of like someone that you meet that seems to know the real you before you do in a way, or like saw behind the mask. And and she brought that side of me out in some crazy way, just by just by the way she spoke, the way she believed in me, the way she painted the future of what it could be, especially going through a crisis moment at home. I remember one story where she was like, You're it it mum was like off the planet, she wasn't doing her music, she wanted to, and then I think we had to call the cops on the stepdad for some violent stuff. And she goes, I promise you, one day you'll stand on this stage with your mum and you're gonna sing and I'll be there.

Jade Harley: 05:47
Yeah, wow.

Dominic Brook: 05:48
It was the most like it was this beautiful piece of hope in the midst of the darkness that she had, like, I think you're saying it today, when you're going through stuff that you've got to stand with that hope and push back. And it was those kind of moments in hardship that was like, okay, but not only did it help and hope, but it some of that stuff all happened. So it was probably 10 years after I was on the stage releasing Mum's album, and we're on the stage together, and she was there.

Jade Harley: 06:16
Yeah, wow. I mean, there's so much stuff we don't know and we can't understand, right? Yeah. But I think what I love about that is it's that perfect example of one person, not a relative, not a school teacher, not a soccer coach, just a person seeing potential in a young person and giving your giving you the time and giving you, you know, an adult kind of that's backing you and believing in you. And I see that thread into what MMAD does today. So I just love that. You know, when people say to me, you you know, one person can't make a difference, absolutely they can. And this is a great example.

Dominic Brook: 06:49
Like a neighbor, a friend, a kid, yeah, but your friend. Like it's just believing more for somebody.

Jade Harley: 06:54
Yeah.

Dominic Brook: 06:55
There's a little bit more to that, but it's really just, you know, having that sense of purpose. And you know, it's I do see the ripple effect actually just as we're talking, it was like she almost founded MMAD in a way. You know, I mean, I know I came up with the idea and did the things and within the. She sowed the seeds. But she sowed the seed, and now that I look at all the young people that have come through MMAD and the incredible things they're doing, I see that ripple effect happening. Yeah, and this generational change, which is pretty crazy. Thanks for that aha moment.

Jade Harley: 07:26
No

Jade Harley: 07:26
 problem. So you started working in Juvie early career and then went into running hip-hop camps for kids. And this was all self-funded, so this was before MMAD. What drove you to do that?

Dominic Brook: 07:39
So I went to that songwriting camp and I came back from that camp just knowing two things. I wanted to do something with music, and I wanted to create change in a positive way through music. That's all I knew. I didn't know how, but because I started performing in that, maybe to put on gigs, so I had a performance at my own gig. We put on performances and different things. But it was also that songwriting camp was one of those other moments. I'm not sure if anyone's been to a conference or a trip or to something where you came back different, and there was something just special about the experience that shifted and changed you, and you're never the same. That camp kind of did that for me. I can't explain how. Yeah. It just did. And I felt like what if, and I think I had the thought, what if we could do that for more at-risk young people where I was, but through hip hop culture. So it's called 351, 3 Days, Five Elements, which is the four elements of hip-hop, DJing, MCing, and breaking, graph. But the fifth element was like knowledge and self. And then the one shot was what is your one shot at life to do something great? What do you what what do you really dream of? Because deep down in all of us, we have this special gift and special purpose that a lot of people never find or get buried due to trauma or stuff that happened. But if you find that, we're all gifted to do something great.

Jade Harley: 08:60
Yeah.

Dominic Brook: 09:00
And I think that's changed a lot of kids' lives over 20 years, that 351 camp. I'm working with a kid that I worked with 20 years ago, and he just keeps talking about that moment where he shifted in the same way I did with the camp that I went to. So I think, yeah, now my life's just set on creating change creatively through music, creativity, and mentoring. And then those kids are going on to find their own little niche, which looks a little bit different with all of them with what they're doing.

Jade Harley: 09:31
And at what point did you realize it wasn't just a passion project? And you know, I want to talk about that founding moment for Matt. Because as you said, you you knew you wanted to do something with music, you knew it had to be purposeful, but you no business degree, no qualifications, nothing that makes you go, yeah, cool. So what was that founding moment like? What were those early years like for you, that steep learning curve as you were kind of following this path?

Dominic Brook: 09:56
In terms of the business model.

Jade Harley: 09:57
Yeah.

Dominic Brook: 09:58
So the first camp we got donated the hall. We had no funding, no nothing. It was just pure passion and like, what if we did this? Let's just give it a shot. You know, if it went through today's compliance checks and governance and risk assessments, I don't think there was one. It was pure passion and very just grassroots. You know, it was I was only like 22 or 23, just going, what if we did this? And so it was a steep learning curve. It took us, I was working in juvenile justice and a few other places while I was building what we call MMAD Today. And it was good eight to ten years before that, that interaction with Unlimited, which was called Mayday back in the day. Yep. With Kerry McCabe, we were able to put one person on one day a week and actually rent an office. And that was around 2006. Yeah, wow. So in between now, I was working at youth centers for council, juvenile justice, a few other little things, you know, doing workshops and that as well. But yeah, Unlimited had a big part over the 20 years in terms of bringing great brands and structure and different partners over the years, you know who you are, have all added something to the MMADness and what we are today. Like I think I don't want to mention anyone, but we're able to purchase our own place, our forever home, which we're at risk of. And then we're able to put on another employee to do workshops and tours, and then different brands gave us a car and we still got that after 15 years, a van that we do regional tours with, and then you know, all the companies that are listening or involved with ARN or MMAD, sorry, Unlimited or MMAD. We're at ARN now, by the way, MMAD props. Know, yeah, just know your legacy in MMAD. You really have built those foundations that we're trying to sustain and secure so that we can leave a lasting legacy for the next hundred years and that impact will continue to grow.

Jade Harley: 11:52
So, what is it about music that reaches young people who have shut down to everything else? So, as a vehicle for change, why is music so important?

Dominic Brook: 12:03
Yeah. Okay, so music is so important, I think, because one, everybody connects with it. You see kids everywhere, no matter where they are, with headphones in their ears, or just wanting to listen to music because it speaks to their inner soul or inner self and inner trauma, like nobody else can quite reach. Because I think the music is uh is connecting because they're singing or rapping about similar experiences and that they feel connected to Community. Music is universal. Music is just I mean, a life without music would be pointless, really. So it it's really the the language of the soul and our emotions and and and connects to us on such a unique way level. I mean, all the research that's coming about uh music therapy and learning an instrument and how it builds more neuropathways than any other thing that you could do, and just yeah, it's it's it's a special, unexplainable thing that that moves the world in different ways.

Jade Harley: 13:04
So when a young person comes into Matt, right? So they're the first, they're either referred through a service or through a school or through a person, or they just come through word of mouth, one of their friends. Like when a young person comes into your world, what happens for them? What's their first interaction? You know, how and because I know not every person who comes in even has musical ability or aspirations. So I think we want to dispel that myth, right? It's the, you know, it's that sense of belonging and acceptance and feeling safe and having a place that's for them where they can express themselves without judgment. So that's what I see when I come in. But I'm really interested in, you know, for that young person coming through the door for the first time, what do you hope they get out of it? What are you what what are you creating for them?

Dominic Brook: 13:51
Well, we're creating a MMAD world. And that MMAD world it is hard to explain, but it's a world that's safe. It's a - think of the best family - you might have had it. They've got your back, you got a beautiful space. If you need something to break through with life, they want the best for you. You know, they're not gonna, you know, rip you off. And they're gonna believe in the best for you. They're gonna open up doors for the best for you. You're gonna feel safe. You got the resources to do the things that, oh, I never knew I could even do that. So it's walking into this world of a place where, well, what if dreams were possible? What if you could overcome anything? What if there was a world without judgment and positive energy? What is the world where you could be empowered and learn and become the best you could be? And that is the MMAD world.

Jade Harley: 14:35
And that's probably for a lot of these kids and young people, it's it may be the first time anyone's ever said that they're worth something. You know, they've probably been turned away from school or groups or absolutely.

Dominic Brook: 14:47
I remember one kid said, Nobody's asked me what my dream is.

Jade Harley: 14:50
Yeah. Wow.

Dominic Brook: 14:51
It's like he he was just lost in that question. I was like, what?

Jade Harley: 14:55
Yeah.

Dominic Brook: 14:56
And it's kind of that lack of positive import. And I think what's powerful about creativity in music is we have a vehicle to be able to, you know, get into the ears of young people. And also, music's not just about listening, it's about creating.

Jade Harley: 15:12
Yeah.

Dominic Brook: 15:12
So s suddenly our young guys that have been through Hellenbeck are releasing the trauma through writing. And once they write it out, there's scientific evidence about the the actual trauma from inside starts to drop off because they've told the world and it's in a it's in a creative thing that it's no longer in them, it's in the song.

Jade Harley: 15:30
Yeah, yeah. They've, it's moved out of their physical body.

Dominic Brook: 15:33
And then that song ripples to affect someone else that still has that in them.

Jade Harley: 15:37
Yeah.

Dominic Brook: 15:38
And, you know, we are rise up crew, which I know you want to talk about programs later, but you know, one of them's written this great song on mental health that he doesn't know it yet, but we're about to tell him this week that Universal are gonna release and it's gonna it's called I'm gonna be okay.

Jade Harley: 15:52
Yeah. Well, let's let's talk about the programs. Um, so they've walked in, you know, there's there's obviously the assessment of where that child is at, what does this child need,

Jade Harley: 16:02
 because every child's different, right? Every young person is different. But then you've got these programs that you talk them through. And I think this is really interesting there because it's a very, you know, we talk about, you know, MMAD is not a short-term fix. It's not a case of you come in for four weeks, tick a box, and off you go. This you with that young person for as long as necessary. And often, you know, I see them, they're still adults who've got children at the road. They're like 31, I'm still at home.

Dominic Brook: 16:26
Fly okay, become volunteer.

Jade Harley: 16:28
Exactly. So they go on to become the change themselves. But I think I'm really interested in just step me through those programs that a young person might go through in Matt.

Dominic Brook: 16:37
We've got a lot of programs that fit a lot of things. So I might just step you through the theory of change, probably. Great. Which would be creating that comfort and safety and that ability to not feel judged. And like a kid, you've got that ability to just, you know, sing and sing naked or sing whatever, like you don't care. You don't know. So it's when young people grow up, and they start singing, and then someone says you're crap, and they lock down and then they get anxiety because they're gonna get judged. Yeah. So we set, I think, the soil, the atmosphere, the tone. Yeah. And then I think through different programs, we plant the seed of who they can become, what they can do, and they're hearing stories of overcoming and resilience. And we plant the seed of skills, you know, some of the skills they'll learn in rapping, recording. And those programs are programs like, you know, sound foundations where they learn the basics of sound and also how to have a sound foundation in your mental health, you know, in your mind, in your life. And then break free, which is eight-mile meets AA, where you come in weekly, set a weekly goal to kind of uh have this atomic habits effect on little steps of changing your life. And then one of the big probably watering programs as we water that seed is the Catch a Falling Star program, which has been an incredible program, which is a six to twelve month intensive mentorship around you can't the the philosophy of you can't change the world unless you change yourself. And so that's all about changing self and getting self on on really solid ground, and then followed by a leadership development program with um with our partner where they rise up and learn about how to lead, how to run programs, how to create events, how to network, how to have resilience, how to be a great leader, how to serve. So yeah, and that and then they go on to, I don't know, blow up on social media or you know, create their own business or become artists and tour with Lewis Capaldi or Win Australia's Got Talent or whatever they end up to doing. Not all of them, I'd only say like 50% are serious about becoming a musician, probably even less. So we've got one one young guy that's just blowing up on TikTok, sharing his story about being a great dad. And we've journeyed with him for like 10 years through ups and downs and supported him in like getting the gear so he can do the social posts, and he's getting like millions of views per post, and people are really resonating with his mentoring around being a great dad.

Jade Harley: 19:09
What what I love about, you know, and I know I know this young man you're talking about, but what I love about that is he is breaking those trauma bonds for you know he's bringing he's bringing his his boy up the way he would have wanted to be. Isn't that amazing?

Dominic Brook: 19:22
I think he spoke about that on his last post. I'm breaking this generational Absolutely.

Jade Harley: 19:28
And that's what it's about, right?

Dominic Brook: 19:29
It's well, I think that's what, yeah. I think that's what MMAD teaches. We talk to them about you know, living by design and not default. So default's oh, well, I've always been like this. Yeah. Oh my dad's like this, well I just I'm just fine with no control.

Jade Harley: 19:46
No control. Yeah.

Dominic Brook: 19:47
And we basically, through creative therapy and years of experience, break that thought pattern, and we actually almost do a whole neuro reprogramming of their brain through our programs.

Dominic Brook: 19:59
Well, it's kind of like that.

Dominic Brook: 19:60
Sounds intense, but that's pretty much what we do. But they've got freedom of thought, but we have the opportunity to question why do you think that? Who could you be? How could you reframe that?

Jade Harley: 20:09
Yeah, and turning down that negative voice in their head that tells them they can't, they're not worthy of the thing. Exactly. Increasing beliefs. Yeah.

Dominic Brook: 20:16
All that. That's the fun bit, actually. I love that. Yeah. So we're very big on I think self-development as well as music. I think we were talking before that, yeah, no, music is so engaging and people love to dance and it's it's experiential. And then the mentoring is like so empowering. Yeah. But each of them on their own doesn't have the same powers together. And I think that's part of the magic of MMAD H.

Jade Harley: 20:37
But I think I think it's also, you know, it's the self-selection that I love. So, you know, whilst they may be referred, like there's no one holding the kids there. They choose to show up every week or every day or whatever it is. They choose to be at MMAD H.

Dominic Brook: 20:50
You know the funny story?

Jade Harley: 20:51
Yeah, go on, tell me.

Dominic Brook: 20:53
When kids get in trouble at school or something happens, a lot of the times the parent bans them from going to MMAD.

Jade Harley: 20:59
Because they love it so much.

Dominic Brook: 21:01
They love it and they know that's the only thing that they love. But it's the worst thing a parent could do. Because MMAD is teaching them, actually to better their behavior and break that cycle.

Jade Harley: 21:10
Yeah. So they're depriving them of the Trevor Burrus.

Dominic Brook: 21:12
They're depriving them of the opportunity to change.

Jade Harley: 21:14
Yeah, interesting.

Dominic Brook: 21:15
And so interesting to be able to do that.

Jade Harley: 21:18
Take the screens off them. Yeah, exactly. Not the development. 

Jade Harley: 21:24
Is there a particular story? And look, we never use names on this show. So but is there a particular young person? We've spoken about one, but is there a particular young person or a story that sits with you or has really kind of made you sit back and go, oh, like sometimes you forget the impact of what MMAD can have on a particular young person. Is there any story you'd feel comfortable sharing?

Dominic Brook: 21:46
Yeah. I mean, I don't know where to start, but I've got one in mind that I'll start but yeah, it's quite an amazing place. Like, even when I go I'm not in programs so much because I am developing other programs nationally, but you know, going back into the office and just hearing kids say, MMAD saved my life, it's like, wow. Yeah. It's like how? Like it's it's just I think it's there's just something around that that real family, the authentic workers. It's not a job for us. Like it's it's a mission that every young person has someone who believes in them and the opportunity to live their potential. I mean, that's an essential, I think, right of every young person in Australia that many don't get. And so that's Yeah, it's really beautiful to see. One story. Okay, young guy met him, he was a bit of a thug kid, police knew him by name. Had all the get-up. He was I think we first met him when he was 13, and we kept trying to reach him because we just, you know, we'll drive in the cars like, hey, bro, not using his name, but like, hey, bro, we've got a prize. And I think he told us the other day, I even forgot about it, but he won a Game Boy with his mate. And this is way back in the di day, obviously, of a Game Boys. I think we're talking like, yeah, it was early 2000s. But he wasn't actually into music, he was in a refuge, he went refuge to refuge, and he got on the star program and just felt this absolute sense of family. And we did this most incredible program that we've stopped due to funding. But we hired a house on the lakefront with a jet ski and a wharf and a Christmas tree. And for those who have never experienced a Christmas, we had family Christmas. They brought presents for free. They didn't have to buy anything. We had this little gift shop, they rapped. For some of them, it's the first time they'd ever set up a tree in their home. And we'd have dinners together, and we just that I I would sing and do some music and all that stuff, but that sense of family healed a lot of kids that had been broken and wanted to go back. One of the kids from that camp actually went back to her refuge and wanted to ripple effect and do that for all the kids in the refuge, like and make it special. And she hated Christmas.

Jade Harley: 23:55
Yeah.

Dominic Brook: 23:55
She hated Carols until that thing. So it was that healing of reframing, but that was such a good program. But he came to that, that was a real change for him. But the police actually he called up in tears one day saying the police harass me on the street for no reason. You know, he came back from a star program from one of our programs, and he was telling the police, I'm MMAD now. I've changed. And you know, he was a passionate young street kid, like he talked really street, but he was so passionate about MMAD and the change had MMADe in his life. Anyway, we went down to the police station and they said, and we said, we, you know, stood up for him, basically said, you know, why'd you harass him like he's doing good? And he's like, Well, you know, look, he's had 356 incidents with the police. You know, we know him by name, we we check in on him. And it was like, oh, he's devastated now. He's trying to change his ways, and he keeps putting him in a box and you know, back off. Since that day that we found out about that, he's had zero incidents. He's built his own landscaping business. He wants he's so good with finances now. He wants to teach other kids at MMAD financial wealth and health. He Yeah, he came up and did an episode on futures and gave advis advice about property development and he wants to he wants to bring on a kid on his in his in his different trades, like and help them. But yeah, that was a really interesting one. But just that sense of not even being into music and and those incidents with police and seeing him do so well is really yeah, one of those great ones.

Jade Harley: 25:26
And I think you touch on something there that I love, and it is that the personal rebranding, right? The so the sense of pride that a kid feels to say, I'm MMAD now, like I'm, you know, I'm part of this group, and that stands for something. I think what I love, and I've been lucky enough to attend, you know, some of the block parties where all the different kids will get up on stage and sing or rap or whatever they might do. And I think the thing that stands out for me is just the breadth and depth and diversity of young people, musical tastes, talents, you know, some rock, classical. Like if you were in a school environment or somewhere else, you know, the the kid that's into, you know, rap would be probably rolling their eyes at the kid who's playing the classical, or you know, but in this environment, they were all cheering each other on, like the sense of camaraderie and the sense of we've got you. And some of them were struggling on stage, and yet everyone was like, No, you've got this, you've got this. So it's like this, what you've set up, these kids buy into that behavior themselves, and then that will ripple out into their lives. And I think that is, you know, rather than labeling kids, criminalizing kids, targeting them because they've done something in their past, yeah. Like,what I love is that rewriting of the script. Yeah. Like, how did you know how to do that? Like, I'm just fascinated. Just years of experience. That's a big question.

Dominic Brook: 26:55
I think I knew quite early. I think I don't know how, I think it was just again, like that next-door neighbour, that belief. And then I don't know, growing up in that ashram, I think it was one of those magic moments like you see in a movie where they just get that gift, but it developed. And I think we've all got that in different ways. And yeah, I think I don't know. That's really a hard question. I'm not gonna answer it too much. I'm still I'm gonna go. Sorry, sorry that one. I don't want to process on this show.

Jade Harley: 27:24
No, fair enough, fair enough. I look so probably it's got an intuition a lot of it, right? And then over time, you've got the you've got the proof points in the data of the results.

Dominic Brook: 27:32
You know what? This is funny. I just remembered last year I was in Ellis Springs hanging out with all the indigenous kids and like rapping with them, and everyone was in shock. And then after at dinner time, it's like somebody asked that same question. I said, How did you how did you be able to read people and actually connect like that and change them so quick? And anyway, I I don't know. I didn't do any course. No, I just say, you know, again, everyone's got a gift. Some people can kind of, you know, read each other's minds or do something or meditate or see the future. My gifts just, I think I see the future and I see the true person behind the mask, kind of like my neighbor. It comes back to that neighbor which saw the true me behind the mask.

Dominic Brook: 28:22
Yeah, she gave me that.

Dominic Brook: 28:23
Um, possibly that's it. There we got it.

Jade Harley: 28:25
There we go. Yay, boom.

Dominic Brook: 28:28
So it was transferred. And I think, you know, when you think about that at MMAD we need to create a MMAD school so we can pass these gifts on everywhere. But yeah, I think some of the kids at MMAD go on with great gifts as well, and they're just they've caught something in there. I mean, there's I actually I think it was when ARN was at the office, you were with us. But there was just a moment where we sat there and just like nobody wanted to leave. There was just like something beautiful in the room.

Jade Harley: 28:51
Oh, the minute you walk into that space, there's something special there. It's you know, I don't know it's hard to put a finger on it. It's, but I'm a big believer. If you go rent an apartment or whatever, you walk in, you know. Yeah. You know. I don't know how we know. Like I don't think anyone knows how we know, but you do. Your body tells you your body's like, nah, this is not for me. Oh yeah, that is. Yeah. But you feel safe. That's what MMAD has.

Dominic Brook: 29:09
Yeah.

Jade Harley: 29:09
So let's just put it down to woo-woo.

Dominic Brook: 29:12
The universe basically. The universe.

Jade Harley: 29:14
But now look, so you know, obviously you've been doing this for a long time. So MMAD has started like that, but the reality is, you know, it you're very data-driven, outcome-driven. Absolutely. Like the goal for you, and I want to touch on futures in a minute, but I do want to set this up. The goal for you is to stop kids from ending up either ill, out of school, in juvenile justice centres. You know, your goal is to change their life before they get there.

Dominic Brook: 29:40
But I think what's really I I think what MMAD focuses on, and a lot of people, this is probably a it was a good lesson for me, but I think I've kind of known this, is people focus on like, you don't want to be suspended for school. You can't do that. Like you you I don't want you to be a criminal. And then you're actually almost reaffirming that. Yeah. And so at MMAD, we don't even look at that. And we don't even look we don't ev even when you say, you know, we don't want people to be unemployed or whatever. We actually just look to the future and go, we want you to be employed. We want you to have a great mental health. This is how we get there. And I feel like the positive framing. The positive framing, focusing on the solution.

Jade Harley: 30:17
Yeah.

Jade Harley: 30:18
As parents, even like us doing this, I mean, personally, you know, focusing on what you want them to be rather than what you don't want them to be. Yeah. Because they have two different red car scenario, right?

Dominic Brook: 30:30
Yeah. Exactly. Um, but I think but the result is that all of those things are true. So the result is that you are seeing kids not enter into a system that then turns them into criminals. You are seeing kids develop the skills to have really good mastery of themselves and go on to be successful, but you're doing it by positive framing.

Dominic Brook: 30:50
Yeah.

Jade Harley: 30:50
Yeah. Love that.

Dominic Brook: 30:51
Yeah.

Jade Harley: 30:52
For those

Jade Harley: 30:52
 kids that, you know, or those young people, I should say, that do find themselves within a juvenile justice system. So that's your first interaction with them through futures. So I want to talk about futures because futures radio is new, and I'll give you the space to explain what futures radio is because this is a a new, a new development for for you.

Dominic Brook: 31:12
Yeah. Okay. Um well, look, we too you talked a little bit about me working in juvenile justice while I was, you know, setting up MMAD and figuring out what that looked like. And so yeah, I just realized, again, going back to that conversation we just had, that that uh in the in the juvie there was a lot more negative talk about more crime. Or what crime are we gonna do next? And one kid actually said to me, you know, it's university to become a better criminal. So we're actually sending them back out worse than they went in because we've taught them more tricks where to get the guns or where to do a hit or who to connect with if you want to do this. And that and then we wonder why, you know, the recidivism rate's 85% or whatever it is. And I was like, this doesn't make sense. And I saw that, you know, at that time they're watching a lot of crime shows and that, which is great for us entertaining, but for them it's their real world and they're getting more ideas. And I was like, how do we flip the script and create that kind of like MMAD world? How do we put something into a room that's one of the most isolated places on the planet? A little, you know, four-by-four prison cell with a TV and a lot of people. It's just causing trauma and you know, it's causing this negative feedback loop of I'm, you know, I'm bad, I'm a criminal, I'm thinking, Mum hates me, this happened, I'm thinking, I'm a criminal. You know, being and and and swap it out with actually people who'd been there, lived experience, and this beautiful positive feedback for the future. And, you know, we've piloted last year, which is incredible. We've been running it on and off for for 10 to 20 years, but we finally got the support to do a 24-hour version. And the results have been incredible.

Jade Harley: 32:54
So, what sort of things are you seeing?

Dominic Brook: 32:57
Well, one kid on the unit was there's a lot of separation with postcode war. So one kid on the unit that was ahead of that gang, and everyone knew him as the head of that postcode, and there was, you know, incidents and fights, and he he joined Futures and the crew, and he got trained up over three to six months and just opened up his world to his gift and how good he was. And he interviewed like he interviewed the minister, Deborah Wallace, head of Raptor Squad, he interviewed Danny Abdallah about forgiveness, and suddenly, after three to six months, he was a changed kid in the sense he was more confident. Nobody remembered him as the head of the gang anymore. They remembered him as a few years. He had a new identity, yeah, of like the radio celebrity host doing that. He had new dreams, he just wanted to work for futures and do radio and content, and he wants to be a plumber and that. And he started talking to us about oh yeah, the other boys are talking about the next crime they're gonna do and started being part of the futures gang, creating the change, became a musician making a difference. So it's early days. It's early days. It's early days, but early research is showing us the kids are listening, 80% are listening to about 14 hours a week, which is 14 times more. We're hoping for one hour a week of their favorite show that helped inspire them. And this isn't any ordinary radio.

Jade Harley: 34:15
I mean, the kids are the young people, sorry, uh they're creating a lot of the content themselves. They're creating one show a week. Okay.

Dominic Brook: 34:21
But it's so they're learning the skills in radio.

Dominic Brook: 34:24
Yeah, we've guys teaching them. Yeah.

Dominic Brook: 34:26
But they're becoming independent where they're actually without our staff on, they're recording shows, but we're editing it, so they're being empowered to do it. But they're listening to like morning meditations, you know, morning TEDx talks, morning training on like confidence and sales skills, putting together projects. It's like a it's like a TEDx slash school slash a radio station, like we've got these cobrum requests where they request their songs, there's competitions to create change. It would just be shifting, we're creating great opportunities. Yeah. So that we're gonna be able to do that.

Jade Harley: 34:54
And most importantly, you're you know, hopefully they'll come out of there a different person, regardless of for what they, you know, were put in for. And I know a lot of especially, you know, young, young offenders, it's it's it's not these heinous crimes that the the media would portray. It's often it's like it's it's kind of theft, or they're getting themselves into the cars with older kids and they're being led. So you're able to take that life and show them a different way so that when they come out, they're probably not going to hang out with the same kids that they were before. Their horizons are shifted.

Dominic Brook: 35:27
So the goal is very much, you know, well, hopefully we can train some of them on the external radio to host the shows. Um and one day I'm hoping one of them becomes a break brecky show announcer after they're trained up because the personalities in here are crazy. They're great. People love them. So we're creating futures, and so love love the name of the radio. But it's really early days. It's really interesting evidence that's coming back. Like we're noticing some of the boys that are getting transferred into other units are requesting, they're like feeling lost without futures. They want it to come in. So we're building out, you know, we're knocking on ministers' doors, we're doing whatever we can to get this up and running because the return on investment for government is like 22x, like the impact.

Jade Harley: 36:08
Yeah. How much how much we're spending on locking kids up, you know, when we shouldn't be.

Dominic Brook: 36:12
And so it's uh it's really a a no-brainer to be able to put a mentor, a friend, a life coach, and a careers counsellor in their room 24 hours a day and through MMAD, the experts over the last 25 years, the research of how many kids we've turned around and the well-being index from like 40% from most kids up to the normal 73% of Australians. And so, yeah, it's exciting.

Jade Harley: 36:38
And I, you know, you that's a really interesting one. I saw a post the other day, I'm not gonna remember the stats, but but it certainly struck me. It's like the amount that we're spending on locking kids up, you know, from the age of 10 in New South Wales, you look at how much money we as taxpayers are paying to do that. And you could, like if we fully, if if we fully funded programs like MMAD, we'd never have these kids in in these environments in the first place, right? So if that funding that we're spending on locking kids up went into places like MMAD and Backtrack and Down Track and Leader Life and all of the other amazing organizations on the ground, changing kids' lives. I just look at it from a numbers perspective and go, surely the Australian public goes, hang on, that makes a lot more sense. You could pay for a child psychologist full-time. You could pay for a, you know, fitness coach, mental health, you know, everything. You kind of look at all of that, the life skills, and have a whole squad of people inside proven models like MMAD, diverting these kids before they even get to that point because of the trauma. Um, so I love that you've got kind of, you know, you've everything you're doing is to divert these kids and show them a better way. But then what you've developed is something for the kids that you haven't reached that are already in there, how do we make sure they don't go back in there again? Yeah. Right? Because it's that, you know, we're big believers in early intervention.

Dominic Brook: 37:50
Yeah.

Jade Harley: 37:51
But then it's also okay, for those that have slipped through the cracks for whatever reason, how do we make sure that they don't go back there? So that hopefully, eventually You know what?

Dominic Brook: 37:60
If they don't leave the prison cell feeling like they have a purpose and a skill and visualizing their future in a positive way, they're basically going back. Because they're going back to an environment where their brothers are in crime or their family or they're in an environment they have to survive to th steal or whatever. Because low socioeconomic areas. So what we need to do is like, yeah, use that as a a street unit to train them up while they're inside the best we can to create more jobs, create safer communities. And people that say, oh, well, they shouldn't have a program like this or anything, to me it's like almost a flat earther, because sorry, flat earthers but but it just makes total sense.

Jade Harley: 38:38
We're not talking about making it soft for them. We're talking about turning.

Dominic Brook: 38:41
You can make the cell and make the prison center as hard as you want, but if we don't feed them input or give them the opportunity to change, you or your neighbor or your community are the ones that are going to be affected in the future. So this is essential to the safety of the community because we're whatever you think you become. And futures is changing the thinking of the system and the thinking of young people in the system and will reduce recidivism rates if implemented across Australia.

Jade Harley: 39:07
And so what's your goal for futures? What would you, you know, if you could if it could roll out the way you want it to, like what's your goal?

Dominic Brook: 39:14
I think it needs to be in every juvenile justice center in Australia. Then we need to build the community and village and network of the best community organizations that can create entertaining content that connects with those kids who are going through those crises so that they want to connect from a media marketing point of view, they want to connect with those community organizations or opportunities more than they want to go back to a lifestyle of crime.

Jade Harley: 39:39
Yeah. So it's got, I mean, if you look at it as, you know, if it's the vehicle, you could see futures sitting within the local community hall with, you know, local leaders driving content that goes

Jade Harley: 39:50
 in. Or I mean it could be something for mass adoption, right? If we see it's working.

Dominic Brook: 39:54
We're building the stage, but there's a whole village and lots of different organizations that will sorry, we're building the festival. The stages will be run by all different organizations. So we're open to content from from anyone, from anyone who has part of the solution and is bettering young people's lives.

Jade Harley: 40:10
Yeah, yeah. For people listening, what's the best way to get involved and support MMAD and your work?

Dominic Brook: 40:17
Let's have a chat. Let's have a chat and brainstorm. I really connect well with people and their ideas and their needs and how does that fit together? So the best way, go to MMADAustralia, double M A D Australia on Instagram, message us.

Jade Harley: 40:30
I'm gonna jump in there. It's double MMAD.org.au. That's the website. All right, okay.

Dominic Brook: 40:36
So I was talking about the Instagram or socials, MMADAustralia or MMAD.org.au, double M. Just give us a call. Let's have a chat. Yeah. Um, but yeah, get on the website, you know. But I find I love connecting with people now where there's great win-wins, you know, where it works for them. I don't want to ask for anything for MMAD and like give back. How do you give back, but you also improve something in your team or your bottom line or what you're trying to build in in your company or your life. So let's just have a chat.

Jade Harley: 41:06
I love that. Well, if you've been listening and you want to learn more, so head to MMAD.org.au. I will put all of the links to all the socials and all the things in the notes. But I just want to say a sincere thank you to you, Dom, and a thank you to ARN for hosting us today. Um, it's been a pleasure, and we're out. Thank you. Need more light in your feed? Follow and share. Be part of the movement to bring the balance back.