The Measure Of A Man

Kyle and Drew are joined by Ben and Matt to discuss the trials and triumphs of being a man

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Hey everybody, it's Drew and you're listening to Leave It at the Table, hosted by myself, Kyle, and Danielle. This is the show where nothing's off limits and everything's on the table. We go live every Thursday night on YouTube and Facebook. But if you missed it, this audio version's here so you can catch up anytime. We hope you enjoy. And if you do, please give us a five-star review. Now let's get into it.

SPEAKER_04 0:32

Would not be Leave It at the Table without some kind of uh absolute misfire before we go live. But so far, so good on the comment section. So maybe we weren't as hot as I thought. So all right. Welcome.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Gotta love it.

SPEAKER_04 0:49

Welcome to Leave It at the Table. It is a beautiful, beautiful Thursday night. It was a gorgeous day, by the way. Started out a little rocky, a little windy, rainy.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

Started out windy.

SPEAKER_04 0:58

It was windy all day for me. Well I was over in Santa Rosa. It was well, I just meant like the combined feature of everything. It was a beautiful day. It ended up being wet in the like the mid to high 60s. Sun was out all day. It was a great day to have a desk job and be stuffed up in an office. But I ended up having a much better day than I thought I was going to have. We got some guests here with us tonight. We've got Matthew Morgan and we've got Benjamin Maxwell. We'll call you Matt and Ben for short, of course. I mean, we're not going to go official all night.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

I hear spinoff.

SPEAKER_04 1:30

Benjamin. We've been calling him up. Drew Tavius? Drew Tavius. There's a lot of different names you've been calling me. Du Gorman. It was Du Yorman. And then those are just to your face. So imagine the other stuff. We'll come back to them here in a second. Just a couple things to go over. Next Thursday, the 19th, we're doing our big uh giveaway winner. If Danielle can still speak at the end of that episode, we will do our big giveaway winner. But Danielle is running the ones and twos here tonight. No microphone, no camera for her, but she's uh she's here running the board. So much appreciated. Um make sure you show her some love in the comments. So next Thursday the 19th, we're gonna announce the winner of our giveaway, and we're doing our punishing trivia, which is gonna be uh just an absolute terrible time. We've been going through some of the comments, and some of you guys I thought loved us. Diabolical. I thought they loved us, but all of a sudden you've got pickled pig feet. Somebody put um Valerie from our job put uh squirrel brain and eggs.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

I had a buddy reach out to me.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

He said very salty, by the way. Really? When you work at the Piggly Wiggly and the label falls off, play around a mystery can. Definitely got squirrel brains once.

SPEAKER_04 2:46

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

We'll change your life.

SPEAKER_04 2:48

Oh no. That sounds terrible. Second. Second? Shove it in his mouth. What do you thought? You want me to lower it?

SPEAKER_02 2:59

He pulled it. He pulled it. I'm just lowering it because it looks like he's he's sitting up to talk into it.

SPEAKER_04 3:05

Oh, well, he's I'm trying to help out. You're good. Crying. And then we are off on Thursday the 26th. We will not be having a show. Why are we not having a show, Drew? Babyhouse. Baseball's back. Opening day. It's like a holiday. I like it. I honor the you like some people honor the Sabbath. Like I honor opening day. That's wild with the people here.

SPEAKER_05 3:27

That's wild.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

I'm now taking bets on Sunday sermon.

SPEAKER_04 3:35

You can go to fanduel.com forward slash goatbear lobster to place your bet right now. So back to our guests here. We'll start with Ben. Tell us a little bit about you and a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Guys, y'all have hyped me up so much. I feel like there's like so much pressure coming on now.

SPEAKER_04 3:53

Yeah, this has been a long time coming.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Lacey's already lapped me, so.

SPEAKER_04 3:57

Two times.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Which camera is my is this camera? Kids, don't meet your heroes. Because when you walk into a gas station one morning and they just push you aside, and then stand in line and buy like 20 lotto tickets, not win, and then storm out.

SPEAKER_03 4:16

Wow, Drew.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

It'll ruin your day.

SPEAKER_03 4:20

Terrible.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

But yeah, I met Drew once. Uh it was at a gas station one morning. All the rest wasn't true, but it's good to finally meet him. Yeah. For real. For him to meet me.

SPEAKER_04 4:31

He's met Drew. Drew has not met me.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

I was walking around the corner and all of a sudden I saw this guy staring at me. I'm like, I gotta get out of here.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

He walked in, honestly. He walked in and I was like, he looks familiar. I didn't realize until I left who you were.

SPEAKER_04 4:44

Dude, we thought about going out of town one day and just being like, Are you are you Drew Gorman from Leave It at the Table? Just like taking a picture in the mall or something, making people think we're like famous, seeing if you can uh get people to tag on to that.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

But that was uh then I've got people calling me uh Tyler Childers or um Mark Zuckerberg. The Tyler Childers one. We were in Nashville.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Mark Zuckerberg, I can say it.

SPEAKER_04 5:08

For the Brantley Gilbert Brantley or the Bradley Gaskin. Why did I say Brantley Gilbert? The other BG. BG, yeah. He is Brantley Gilbert's the other BG. Bradley Gaskin's the BG. Exactly. We're best voice I've ever heard live. Um we're in Nashville and we go into Kid Rock's bar. Yes. So we go, we we went in the Kid Rocks bar, and uh first of all, overstimulated right off the bat. Hate had not a big fan of crowds, but you I feel I felt like you know, I've never been on Broadway, Kid Rocks Bar. It's like the hot spot. Like you kind of feel like you have to. So we go in there, and uh you know, dumb drunk kids come up to Drew and they're like, Hey bro, are you Tyler Childers? And Drew goes, Maybe. And he goes, Wait, are you actually Tyler Childers?

SPEAKER_02 5:54

Wait, we they were standing at the door, and I was like, Whatever, maybe. Kept walking, and we were like standing there, and we just stopped and like were listening to the band, trying to figure out what we were gonna do if we were gonna stay in or leave or go up to like the the third floor or whatever. Which we did, that was a nightmare. And then they walked back over and they were like, So, like, are you really Tyler Childers? And I looked at him, I was like, No, dude, they were like from across the room, like, are you really?

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Dude, you always gotta lean into it. Absolutely, I am.

SPEAKER_04 6:26

Skylar Childers. Skylers, just start taking pictures and be like, oh, Tyler Childers was on Broadway last week. We got we got Duke Bryan, we got Skyler Childers. We're good. Oh, and of course, we got Matt Morgan here tonight. Matt, tell everybody a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

So I'm a pastor of a church where Kyle and Ben both um attend.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

We'll be coming forward Sunday.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Yeah, it's the 11th commandment.

SPEAKER_04 6:55

Doing buy one, get one baptisms on Sunday, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

And uh I've married, got a couple of kids, both in middle school, so I'm very much in the in the throes of that.

SPEAKER_04 7:08

Can't wait to uh talk about that stage of being a parent because man, well, I I'm not ready. I like I can't wait. I can wait to get to that point, but hearing about it, like there's got to be horror stories.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

Well you can you can wait for them to you can't wait for them to get their own bed, because uh from what you posted this morning, wow.

SPEAKER_04 7:27

It's it's one thing when it's one of them. It's not so bad. We have a king-sized bed, we did that for a reason, you know, because I I'm a I'm kind of a hot sleeper and we like our space. Um it's one thing when it's one of them because Carson, not a little kid. Not not a little seven-year-old. Uh he is massive. Last night they both end up in the room, and it was uh, you know, like half my body's off the bed. And it's a you know, of course I know I've talked to parents. I know that one day we're gonna miss that, and we're gonna wish they were still in our bed, so you don't want to fight it too much, but it's a Darius Rucker song, I believe. You're gonna miss this. That's uh Trace Adkins. That Trace Adkins. You know what's funny about that song? That was the song that was playing when I got in my wreck. Yeah, ironic. Yeah, I very ironic. Still not the worst part of the night. Losing the Hardy's cheeseburger was the worst part. Big facts. I was so upset about that, man.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

Telling them telling the medic, hey, uh, can I get my cheeseburger? The cop was like, Do you want this?

SPEAKER_04 8:25

And I'm like, yeah. And then the the the the paramedics like, you can't have that, you have a concussion. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's a true story. It really happened. Um, first of all, shout out to the ladies last week for just nailing it down. That's usually where you would clap to because that your wife was part of that. Yes, so was yours, by the way. Um, so I want to give special love to Danielle, of course. Again, off camera tonight, but killed it. Uh running the like Drew and I talked after the show and we're like kind of expected 30, 40 minutes, like something, like the steam would kind of run out. Really felt like you guys had another hour in you. Oh, 100%. But you did good not dragging it out too long, and you did a great job at making sure that it was long enough. When when she started wrapping it up, I was like, oh no, there's no more questions.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

I want to know more.

SPEAKER_04 9:14

I was excited because Ezra was stemming out. It was it was a right. You were ready for bringing the reliever. Yeah, had to make a call to get the closer. Bring in the closer. I'm not I'm not good at nighttime. I'm I'm the morning guy. But uh, shout out to the ladies. They killed it last week. But uh, as always, here we are. We're gonna make it better.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Um, I don't know what show you are watching. I think it went 50 minutes too long. Stop over your head, stop over your head.

SPEAKER_02 9:47

Cut it down.

SPEAKER_04 9:49

We've lost live feed, sorry. So so with the thought of all of our wives that were on there last week, I wanted to give us each a little bit of I put 30 seconds on the questions, but I if you don't have that long in you, I know you've got like if we don't use 30, I know you'll take the rest of it. So only 30 seconds, Max. Um, respond respond to your wife from last week.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

I was uh I was very proud of my wife because uh this is supposed to be a response. No, I'm we already gave them love. No, I'm very proud of my wife because she came on here and and basically like off she's never done anything like this, and I'm very proud of her because she was able to come on here and handle herself like she had done it every day of her life. And I I know from personal experience, you don't sit in front of a mic and cameras and are good at it. It takes a little bit of time, it takes a little bit of time, but she sat down and had been telling me she she was mad at me because I didn't properly disclose that that I wasn't gonna be on the podcast, I was gonna be off camera, I didn't properly dispose that, and so she got mad and she was like, I don't know if I I'm gonna back out, I don't know if I'm gonna do it. And I'm like, You're already on a post, like your name's out there, you've gotta show up now. And then she came on here and killed it, and I was like, hey, I'm gonna take it. Great job.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Then my wife. She was great. Uh no, she came home and I was like, I feel like she helped back. Um, which I'm not exactly complaining, but it could have gotten a lot worse for me. Uh but yeah, I was like, I don't know. I just felt like she held back. I don't really have anything to re I even went back and rewatched it to see if I had anything to re refute. I didn't really have a whole lot. Not like you guys.

SPEAKER_04 11:48

I got uh I was well, first of all, uh yeah, Rachel did a great job. They all did. Um, but I re uh I always tell Rachel that's you know, when you're when you're married to a content creator, like you're gonna have to be on camera sometimes, whether it's like you know, food review videos or just anything like this. Like, I'm gonna want you to step up and do this. And she's always done that without question. So shout out to her for that. Um, and also she did admit on camera. Um, I have a clip to prove it, that she loves me and my farts. And that that's that's on camera, and that is documented for the world to see for the rest of our lives. So I have it literally on like almost on speed dial. So where if she says something one day, if I like just rip one off, I'm like, mm, you said it. I love you. Right. You said it, not me. Um, there was one comment made that I was a little like taken back by. I was like called a failed entrepreneur on my own show.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Ouch.

SPEAKER_04 12:49

That was uh that stung a little. You haven't failed yet.

SPEAKER_02 12:57

So actually, we it's not failed. We we've just uh we've changed.

SPEAKER_04 13:06

We have, we've we've evolved. Moment of silence for uh the Ride On Sports Podcast, the Ride On Squared Circle Podcast, the Fantasy Football MD podcast, terribly terrific, no purpose podcast, uh Nerd Culture Undisputed. Yeah, rest of terribly terrific, which never actually uh had an episode release, but it does have a recording out there.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

That one um whatever we did with uh the the 15-minute segments of how do I eat this? How do I eat this? R.I.P.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

If you ever film at shows, you can just get a job coming up with names for shows. Like Mouse Rat, Rat Mouse.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

My next sermon series when I when I title it. I'm the guy.

SPEAKER_04 13:45

Oh, he's the man with the ideas. I've got him. I mean, I'm I'm great with like the punishing trivia. Like, that's so like that that feels good. Scarecrow boat. So if you need Know It all, Know It All is still running, longest running show and uh Kyle Wright history going into season five. We're hot on their tail. I actually just talked to my cousin Rick about the Know It All podcast yesterday, and I'm like, man, it's so popular, and I'm so mad about it because I just want to stop doing it because the program is a mess, and I want to not do it anymore, but I feel like I have to.

SPEAKER_02 14:21

Ever since you started the pod, FSU has gone down.

SPEAKER_04 14:25

I blame Dan Gonzalez, okay? That is Dan's fault, okay? Because I my first season, 13-0. Yeah, 13-1 with an asterisk, 13-0. That was my first year on the podcast. Great year. Dan's first year, two and ten. Last year, five and seven. What first game of the year, though. Something what what happened in that first game?

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Oh, y'all won one?

SPEAKER_04 14:48

Oh yeah, we beat Alabama. By the way, LSU fans see the helmets.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Do the field do the fans always storm the field when you lose?

unknown 14:55

No.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Because they always do when we it happens too often.

SPEAKER_04 14:59

If, dude, if somebody stormed the field every time they beat FSU, the ACC would be out of so much money. Um all right, we'll move on here. Uh, we'll kind of just go counterclockwise with each of these answers. Um, that way we let Drew go, get it, get it out of the system, and we see how much time we've got left for each answer. Um, first of all, let me let me look at the comments real quick. Uh, I know we've missed quite a few. I know Lacey is watching, so shout out to Lacey. I see David Ham up there. I see my dad, Kenny, love you, dad. Kyle Alberton, of course, dropping all the hate in the comments. Uh, of course, the the the curse of the dog poo. Uh, that'll never go away. Mom's up there too. Shout out to my mom. I see her as well. Kyle McCalpin, love you. Um, had a funny thing about him before the show. I'll I need to message him about that separately. I'll I'll talk to him about that. But shout out to Kyle McAlpin and uh shout out to everybody watching.

SPEAKER_05 15:55

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:55

Yeah, yeah. Now the gear, I heard the gear click. Yeah. Um, so yeah, thank you guys for showing us love. If you don't mind, hit the share button. If you're watching on Facebook, share it to your friends. If you're watching on YouTube, copy the link. Maybe send it to just five random people. Um, if you are watching, drop a comment, and I'll do my best to keep my eyes on them and uh show you some love throughout the show. Uh Drew, we'll start with you. Who was the man or men that influenced you the most growing up and what did they teach you about being a man?

SPEAKER_02 16:25

Uh both of my grandfathers and my dad. Um both of my grandfathers were very hard-working men, and they never stopped. Never stopped. My one of my grandfather on my mom's side's favorite sayings was uh I'm getting tired. Uh if he was sitting down, taking a break uh from gardening outside or doing yard work or whatever, he'd come inside, eat lunch, drink some sweet tea, and then whenever he gets whenever he he'd get he'd start to feel himself falling asleep, he goes, Oh, I'm getting tired. I gotta get up and go get some energy. And he'd just get up and go right back to work without no questions asked, just get up and go. Um and I actually, whenever I'm first moved here in 20 uh to in 2020, uh I became a carpenter, uh, partly because my grandfather was a carpenter. And um so it he really inspired me to do that. But it it just showed me, as well as my dad, that no matter what circumstances are in front of you or what problems amount, there's always a way. And the old saying of there is a will where there's a will, there's a way, it they embodied it, all three of them, to a uh to uh to their degree, to the point where no matter what happens in life, I know that I can overcome whatever it is because they showed me how to do it and how to be a man.

SPEAKER_04 17:51

I love that, Drew. Also, shortest Drew answer of all time. Well, we've got four people to talk about it. But you were very heartfelt and it didn't have to take ten minutes. It was like I felt it, like I felt like I was there. Do you want me to keep going? No, you're good. I felt like Nandad raised me. You know what I mean? Um Kyle McCalpin wants to know if we've installed a wheelchair ramp for him. No, but you better put on the four-wheel drive because like here in a couple weeks, people aren't gonna be coming through the house anymore. Be coming through the yard to the back door to get into the studio, and you're gonna need four-wheel drive on that wheelchair, buddy. So we'll we'll install gravel. We'll put a winch in and pull you out of it. Benjamin.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

Yeah, I mean, my answer um it's very similar to Drew's. And um and I was trying to think outside the box and give up um, you know, a non-expected answer or whatever. Um, but there's like no getting around it. I've had a lot of men in my life. I've been very fortunate in that. Um it's one of those things like you don't like you it's not like you take it for I guess you do take it for granted when you're younger and you get you reach a certain um age and um you start to kind of just realize how many great examples you do have. Um like I have my brother my older brother is a big one. Um my um my dad's another big one, but they all kind of come from that same like the sources two I have two really great had two really great grandfathers. Um and they were they were kind of great in their own ways. Um like they've kind of put two almost dueling mentalities or instilled kind of two dueling mentalities. They were dueling when I was younger, and then I reached a level where it's like I don't know. So like my my mom's dad, he is a uh he was a sailor, uh, very adventurous. Like he tells stories about hitchhiking like he hitchhiking across country and uh you know in the um merchant marines. I mean he was very adventurous, the romantic kind of guy. Um taught me how to sail. We had a sailboat, taught me how to sell, he's gonna leave it to me. Unfortunately, got sick late in his life and uh had to sell the sailboat, broke my heart. Uh I still to this day like to track it down and get it back because taught me how to sell on it. And um and then in contrast to that, my dad's dad kind of really I mean they were both patriarchies in their own way to our family, but um my dad's dad, he was the down home responsibility, um, you know, take care of your family, didn't really venture out or go, you know, travel or or do anything like that. Um he uh he taught me how to fish. So I always kind of you know, it's the sailor and fisherman mentality. So uh, you know, one taught me how to kind of explore, be adventurous, um, you know, always look like like he used to say, is he always wondered what was over that mountain, and he'd want to go see what's over that mountain and over that horizon. And and then my my um other uh grandfather, he was personal responsibility taking care of family, and and boy, did he take care of a growing family, and he took care of so many people, extended family, to the point that it wasn't until after at his funeral I realized how many people he was really taking care of. And you know, it was really kind of a a rock and um resolve is a word that that comes to mind a lot when when talking about him. But you know, growing up I I always had that urge to go travel and and and go see and and explore and and I was fortunate enough to get to do that, and then I've reached I think it was really after my my um my dad's dad when he passed away. I started to feel a shift, but I was definitely a shift. Did I break it?

SPEAKER_04 21:52

No, I think we're good. Hey Danielle, there's something up on the screen.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Taking over Drew's job. We're good. We're good. But uh Yeah, and it's just like I felt a shift of just all the things that he taught and really kind of instilled in me the personal responsibilities like started taking over, you know, and just being that consistent resolve rock you know to everybody. And then real quick non-conventional answer. Um professionally when uh so I used to work sports information and uh worked at uh my first real job after college, uh University of West Alabama. Um my um my boss there, Kent Partridge, who's now retired, unfortunately, is a great guy. Um and um uh everything I've learned professionally, you know, especially as a in in a managerial role and overseeing people and whatever, uh I learned from him. And and I was thinking about this, you know, trying to figure out how to describe it, but uh there was just yeah, there's it's really hard to describe. It's just a very um tactful approach. Because I remember like when I first started that job, and it's like I finally, you know, you you you graduate college and you're kind of in that rush finding a job, trying to find a job, finally, after like three or four months, find a job. Now I'm in it, you start to kind of relax a little bit, and I and I relax too much, and you know, I was juggling three or four different teams, and I kept forgetting about women's volleyball. Women's volleyball is out on the road, and I've already covered all these teams and and I forgot about women's volleyball. I didn't do you know post-game story or anything like that, and I missed about two or three in a row. He just he sent me a message like this can't continue. And it just woke me up. And I mean, we're we've been real close ever well, we were real close ever since. We've he's still one of those, like if I ever called him, you know, we just pick up where we left off, I feel like. But um, yeah, I wish I wish I could describe him better, but professionally, he's he's one I I'm fortunate to have somebody I can look up to professionally and and learn and grow from. And and I'll stop. Sorry, Drew. I took took your job tonight.

SPEAKER_04 24:05

Professionally is uh that's a big one. I mean, that's I've I've got one of those too. So all right, uh Matt.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Yeah. Well, I'll continue the trend with um highlighting a grandfather. I mean, that was the the first person that I thought of was my mom's dad. And he uh worked for the railroad, you know, Drew like you. He was he was a hard worker, he you know, he was always doing stuff, but his life was not about work. His life was about people, and he was just one of the most generous, hospitable um people that I've ever been around. And and uh he died um last year. And when we when we got together with friends and family to just reflect on his life, you know, that's what everybody wanted to talk about was the way that he listened to people, the way that he was intentional about caring for people, that he remembered when you had a conversation with him, he would remember it and come back to it. Even if it was months later, he would come back to it and ask about whatever it is that you shared with him before. And so just that intentionality with people, that people was the most important part of his life, um, just really impacted me. And then my my non-conventional one is is a friend, and and the reason it's non-conventional is he's only a month older than me. But um he he matured um just earlier than I did from a emotional and um spiritual standpoint. And um, and I've so I've looked up to him, and in many ways, like in my young adulthood, he was he was teaching me by example how to be how to be a responsible and um contributing adult.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Real quick, that's a that was one point I wanted to come back to, but that's a good point as far as like you know, we think of like those those older folks that have been stilled and taught us lessons or whatever. Because I I I know I mentioned in briefly my older brother who is two and two and a half, three years older than me. And um, you know, we s we heard the same lectures, we went, we got the same lessons and we went through all that, but seeing him get married and start a family and become a leader of his family, that did just seeing all of the stuff that we've been you know told and told and told, but seeing him kind of go first and put it into practice did more good for me um than than any kind of you know spoken lesson could have could have done. So um there's a lot of those like just you know close in age kind of kind of people that do a number for us.

SPEAKER_04 26:41

Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely. Um NJL 96 MVP on YouTube. I'm not 100% sure who that is, but they said glad I tuned in to hear Ben say that. Kent is a great human and one of the best managers of people I've ever met. What's that name? It says NJL MVP. Oh, Nick Finch. Okay, and F. Okay, there we go. All right. Um, yeah, I just staying on the trend of uh grandfathers. Uh obviously, I mean I'm in his home. Uh he was I I always say I'm a child of divorce, and I'm I'm fortunate enough to be very close to my stepdad and my dad. Um but when you when you're a child of divorce, it's very hard to find constants in your life. And um my grandfather and my uncle John Wright were those two constants for me. And um, and constants doesn't mean that the other that that the the others weren't there, it just meant no matter what, like my my grandpa could come around, my dad, my uncle could come around my stepdad, and it's it was always cohesive no matter what, and they were always there. And uh so yeah, my grandpa, though I'm gonna keep it short because I've got like I I have to talk about my dad and grandpa too, or my dad and my stepdad as well. Um, but yeah, my grandpa, my uncle John, uh my uncle John taught me every just about everything I know about baseball that my dad didn't. Uh he was, you know, my dad worked overnight, so he would be like fried, like tired at the end of the day. So when I got home, uh while he was, you know, he was finishing up his sleep before he'd get up for the night, he would come out there and join us. But my uncle John, he'd he'd get me out in the backyard throwing pitches to me. Uh he had a newspaper baseball made uh wrapped in duct tape, and he'd throw it to me until I bashed the window in, and then we had to switch to a wiffle ball for a little while. But um, so yeah, my uncle John. Um, my dad is my best friend in the world. I'll always stand on that opinion. Um, he he is just the the person that I call when I've got something that I need to talk about. Um, I do feel hi. I do fear I was worried about that little gap. Also, I thought about it like a minute ago where the blanket's on the outside, so that's gonna become a thing at some point. Somebody's gonna come on the inside of that blanket, but you're good. Um, my dad, yeah, my best friend in the world. I call him about everything. Uh I the one thing I hold against my dad is that he raised me to be a Reds fan. Uh thanks for that. Um terrible. Uh and then my stepdad, who I and I don't think I've ever said this to him, so I hope you're watching, Tony. I did see you comment a little bit ago. Um, one thing about Tony that has always been fantastic is that to my sister and I, Tony's our stepdad. But to him, we're his kids. And it's never felt any other way. And he he takes pride in us, he treats our kids like they're his own grandkids. It's fantastic. Uh, so that's a big one. And then on the professional side, uh, want to go CT, Christopher Todd. Uh, you know, he was a very I was so immature when I worked at Sharky's. Um, I was a server. And uh this was back maybe 2013 to 2016. I worked out there, I was working as a server, you know. But he uh I started as an expo and he and I moved to being a food runner and he kind of saw that you know the effort and uh he liked my like I guess swagger. And so he moved me to being a server, and I I was just I was a terrible person. But he took me under his wing and I I learned so much from him. And I text him every Father's Day, every Father's Day every year. I make sure I sent him a happy Father's Day text because CT was my was my dad in that restaurant. Like I looked up to him, I went to him if I had a problem. I he like if if if there was an issue at work, he would be the one to pull me into his office and talk to me. Um and there were many. There were many. Um, but C C T just just an incredible leader, um, just an incredible man. And I blessed enough that his daughter goes to Mosley and I get to see him at the games now. It's really it's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

I think you have another uh professional one. Kyle mentioned him there.

SPEAKER_04 30:49

Um I won't say that name, but I would I I can't say too many bad things about the opportunities that I got under that man because I have been on the field at a college football game on in an NFL stadium twice. Uh I've my feet have touched the Superdome, like the field in the Superdome. Able to bring me. Yeah. My my feet have touched the field at Everbank Stadium. My feet have been uh 30 feet away from Coach K right before a Duke Tennessee game into Suite 16. My like I've been on the track at Daytona. The opportunities. I've I've shaken hands with Larry Fitzgerald, Mike, Mike Norvell, Blippy, who was like the most nervous I've ever been to talk to a human being, Blippy. Um I because of the opportunities that I got from working there. So I I will never publicly bash that man. Even though things were pretty nasty, um, not really concerning me, but people that I'm very close with, um the way that all kind of fell out there. But um I I got to do just incredible, incredible things because of that man. So I'll I'll I'll never uh I'll never talk bad about him publicly.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

Um it's so bizarre that Nick Finch chimed in. Nick Finch is so he when I was at UWA, he was an intern. I called him my my pledge or whatever. I hope he's still watching because Nick, this is Kyle. Kyle's you're basically my Nick Finch right now because he's a formerly formerly formal Kyle of mine.

SPEAKER_04 32:27

Well, I don't know if that's good, Nick. Am I in trouble?

SPEAKER_00 32:29

I feel like you two need to meet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:32

I would love to meet Nick. Yeah. Shout out to you. Um someone else. Jay Maxwell, who's that?

SPEAKER_00 32:39

That would be my brother.

SPEAKER_04 32:40

Ah, the uh the host of the other podcast.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

So he got to hear you talk about him. I was I was I was curious as y'all were talking, is is that something that you've been able to share with those men in your life? Have you been intentional about having a conversation to say, hey, hey, you've really made an impact on me, and I'm I'm thankful for that.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

My uh not enough. My grandfathers know. Um they've both passed. Uh my my uh my Paw Paw, uh my grandfather on my mom's side passed in 2012, and my grandfather on my dad's side just passed away this past year. Um, but with my dad, yeah, I I call him, we talk weekly. Um uh I've been having a rough time with work uh in in recent weeks, and uh I've had frequent conversations with uh both of my parents uh just trying to navigate life. Um just uh drawing on the drawing on the the the lessons that I've learned from them from day one and uh been able to uh talk things out with them and and obviously they them and my wife know me the best. So it's uh different different conversations and getting different perspectives on uh on on uh my my problems at that point in time. And and my my parents are always uh the one thing I'm very thankful for is is that they're anytime I call, they are if they don't answer within five minutes, they're calling me back.

SPEAKER_04 34:13

Yeah, you know, not enough. I have like I I do try to, and I think these two can attest to that. I do try to make sure I show my appreciation for people, um, especially like now in life, like as I've I've grown a little bit older, because my love language is affirmation. So I know that I love when people tell me like number one that I'm doing a good job, and number two, that I'm like loved and needed. Those are like my things that you're can't relate, can't really but um, but so I I I I feel and you can feel free to correct me, like but I'll also call you out. But I'll I I will um I I do try to show uh as much appreciation to people, and of course, I don't think you can ever show enough for those people, but um I I think I'm but yeah, I mean I I mean I think just saying it.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

I I I'm not sure my friend is in California and he's not watching a liberal, but I think he would be surprised to hear me say that, and that's convicting to me. I mean, I you know I've never just called him and out of the blue and said, Hey, let me just tell you it's a good question.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

That's a that's a that's a great thought.

SPEAKER_00 35:19

It'll definitely when you're the receiving end of that, it'll do enough because I have a little sister too. I'm a middle child. Um I can't remember when I think it was in college or something, and uh my sister's always been a grade behind me, and so she was graduating and I'm moved off to Troy. And I can't remember what what it was and she wrote it down or something, but she had asked my mom had asked my sister, like, who who do you look up to the most or or who has been most influential? And she said, me. It blew me away. I'm like, I've done nothing but badger you and terrorize. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I'm not the one to suck up to. I don't have no reason to make it up, but it it but it'll catch you off guard when you realize like wow, people are people are watching, people are paying attention when you feel like you know you're just kind of flying under the radar.

SPEAKER_04 36:08

Uh how much older is your brother than you?

SPEAKER_00 36:11

Uh about just a little under three years. Okay. About three years.

SPEAKER_04 36:15

I thought earlier you said a year. I was like, dude, if three years before a fun three years in that house, dude. Like rabbits. Um uh moving on. Great segue. Matt, as a pastor, um, people look to you for guidance all the time. I've done it. I know other people do it all the time. Um, so where do you go when you need wisdom or strength?

SPEAKER_01 36:39

It's a great question. AI now, right? Just get no, no one's chat GBT will talk about just the AI therapy. No, it is a really good question because there is this tension when you're a pastor of a church where there is a deep desire of mine to be transparent with the church. I don't have everything figured out. I certain I certainly have struggles that um I'm still dealing with. And uh and I want the church to know that. I don't, I mean, yeah, I want them to to, I want to model vulnerability and um authenticity to the church. And at the same time, um every professor will tell you you need to be careful about how much you should you share with the church um or with people in the church. Now, I so I so there's that tension there. So it's a good question. I do have I do have some friends that that um go that go to church with me that are able to hear from me, hey, I'm struggling with this. Um I need you to you know give me advice, help me, hold me accountable, whatever it may be. But also I've got a younger brother who um who I I really respect his um wisdom and his spirituality, his emotional intelligence, and I'm I'm able to talk to him a lot. Also, my wife and I, through um through some really difficult times in our marriage, have gotten to a place where we can be fully transparent with one another. I mean we can tell each other anything and um know that it's gonna be safely heard, safely received, received with grace. And so my wife is probably the main person that I lean on when I need strength, wisdom, things like that.

SPEAKER_04 38:23

That that's actually a perfect segue into the next question because it is what has marriage taught you about yourself that you uh that you really didn't know until you got married. So I'll let you continue on that train.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

Well, I think that the first thing that it taught me was how selfish I am, right? Like when you're not married and then you get married, you you quickly realize, wow, I am so self-absorbed. And um, and now I've got another person that is pointing that out to me. And even if it's not with words, right? Even if it's just um with that. But for me also, I'm so I know y'all talked about the Enneagram um a while back. So I'm a nine, which is a peacemaker, like like Lacey when she, you know, when she talked about it. And the internal message of an uh that a nine receives when they're young. I don't know how I received this, but it was hey, your opinion about things doesn't really matter. And and so this is awful. Like I mean this confessionally, my wife is probably listening and she knows this. But um I it took me it took me two or three years in our marriage before I believed that my actions could have a negative consequence on another person. And so when my wife and I would get into an argument and I obviously had done something wrong and she was upset about it, I thought, she doesn't really care. She it doesn't really bother her. This is a game, and she has she now has a leg up. And it took me a long time to realize, no, that's not true. That's not true. Like my actions can actually have a negative impact on somebody. And that was when I realized that, and realized what for two or three years I had been thinking, and the way that I had been looking at conflict. I mean, it caused a lot of self-reflection. And so um, so to realize these internal messages that I had just taken for granted. Um and so that that was that was helpful. There's things that I did not expect, um, but certainly was helpful.

SPEAKER_02 40:28

Uh I'm still learning on a daily basis, obviously.

SPEAKER_04 40:32

Oh yeah, there's not a book, there's not a pamphlet for that.

SPEAKER_02 40:38

Uh one of the one of the main things, uh it sounds funny when I'm gonna say it, but one of the main things that that really has stuck out to me, and uh Kyle can kind of attest to it uh after seeing uh knowing my wife and whatnot, but uh how messy of a person I am because it's like mm you can literally walk into our room and my half the room has like a a couple stacks of clothes, like a basket and and and some softball stuff stacked up, and then her side's just immaculate. Are you a hamper liver? Yeah, yeah, okay. And she gets on to me all the time about it. But it's just it's just one of those things that I never really thought about until I'm I'm trying to break that habit about oh, I'm pulling my clothes out of the dryer. Let's go ahead and fold it. I have a few minutes, let's fold it and put it away because it's a whole lot easier to take care of one basket of laundry rather than three. But still working on that. But uh, but yeah, it's it's just little um things uh being being self-absorbed and being selfish and and only thinking about yourself for such a long time that uh once you have someone else in your life that uh the the original thought of oh the man's the man is the leader of the house, you have to lead and sacrifice and do this just because you're the man of the house. There were a lot of times that I didn't have the answer. And I don't and I didn't know and it it took a lot in me to to just look at her and go, hey, what do you think? And that was when I really started to see our marriage like take off because it was it was less of me trying uh un uh not very well trying to lead, but we took it together as a team, and that's when when everything really really changed.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

I don't know what y'all are talking about. Marriage is literally the easiest thing I've ever done. Next to being a mother. Next to being a mother. But being but seriously. Uh now I y'all both hit it. Selflessness is is the thing, and and I think a little bit of what you're talking about, Matthew, is you know, with my wife, yeah, I've been so blessed with a wife that um, you know, and I I'm learning a lot from her. We're talking about you know all those male influences, particularly. She's been such a big influence on me. Um and just just watching how she handles things. She's such uh you know, watching her be so long suffering and um you know, now dealing with the toddler and and Gabby, you know, just like she's got two kids now. It's like, you know, it and I it's one realizing when I'm just you know being a a baby and and she's putting up with it, and you know, um I see the selflessness in her and that I've learned a lot from that. Um but to go a a little a little deeper, and I you you kind of hit on it too, as far as being a leader and and all that. Um, you know, if you look at it spiritually, one one word that comes up, and and Lacey and I have been discussing this the the whole submissive, you know, why. Of submit being submissive to the husband kind of dynamic. We look at that as a as a duty of a wife to a husband. But we were we've been discussing it. It's it's a it's a duty to two two people, to two individuals. It's it's as much a duty to the husband as it is to the to the wife. And it's something that um you know I'm fortunate to have a a wife and blessed to have a wife that takes that serious, but at the same time, like I take it serious. If she's gonna submit to me, I want to be somebody worth submitting to, even though I'll never attain, you know, full worthy of that. But um at least being mindful of it and knowing that, you know, I'm not gonna lead her as far as dictate every aspect of her life. We're fortunate enough that we're we're on the same page on a lot of things. I don't it's like a rotisserie chicken, set it and forget it kind of thing. I don't have to really worry about it. But uh, you know, but I do take the you know, the at least try to take stock of what's important, what's not important, and really, you know, um take the lead on that. But I'm also blessed that you know she she wants me to take the lead on that kind of thing. So um, you know, like to sum it up, you know, this whole submissive thing, that that applies to the guy, the men, the husband as as much as the wife, and um you know, it's it's it's something for for for us to uh take to take to heart as well.

SPEAKER_04 45:28

Yeah, I mean you guys pretty much hit all the points. Um you know, she Rachel's very, very supportive of me. I know we made the joke earlier about the you know, the entrepreneurial ship and all the things, all the projects that I do have going on, but she you know, she doesn't complain about it. She just doesn't. Um so to kind of just maybe be a little bit different than the the selflessness, the leadership, um it's taught me that it's okay to let your guard down. You know, having somebody that I can that I can cry to, like, and just let myself go. And I'll I like I tend to hold myself together really well, and then I'll uh I'll tell her, hey, I need to cry tonight. I I will literally tell her, like, hey, I'm just letting you know I need to cry tonight. I'm just gonna have to let it happen because it's been balled up in here all day. So um, you know, that that's a big one. Being able to let my guard down. That's being able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

That's a really good one.

SPEAKER_04 46:23

Trying to be, you know, you can be vulnerable. You can you you can let somebody else in there.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

Um I'm sorry, I just want to go. Go ahead. No, you're good. I don't know if it's a four thing or a middle child thing or a guy thing, but like even when I at church or something or Bible study or wherever, whenever I'm like speaking my mind, or even like here, um, I always walk away feeling like a little empty because it's like, man, I just exposed myself in some way. Or I'm I'm scared like I might have over. But I don't have that with her, with my wife. And I'm very, you know, glad and fortunate to have that because I it's somebody I can trust and I don't have to feel empty for feeling vulnerable uh you know, around. You feel the right answer.

SPEAKER_04 47:06

More full. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:07

Acts like truthfully, it's it's nice. It's it's nice having someone there that's genuinely there to to like listen and help. Yeah, yeah. That and and sometimes helping isn't coming up with a solution, it's just listen.

SPEAKER_04 47:22

And and call it what it is too, right? They have stake in the game, right? They like your your success matters to them, yeah, just like your theirs matters to you. And that's not obviously a hundred percent of the reasons because there is a gen like there's obviously the biggest reason is the genuine love and care, but you know, they need you. They need you at your at the top of your game, and you need them at the top of their game. And the only way that you're gonna do that is to help each other, is to be there for each other when they're not, when you're not at the top of your game to help the other person climb back up that ladder. Yeah um uh Ben, you obviously read a lot, you think deeper than most people. You I mean, you've been reading notes on your wrist the whole time. L-A-C-E-Y.

SPEAKER_00 48:06

She is a good wife, she is submissive.

SPEAKER_04 48:11

She is beautiful and I love her so much. Goatbearlobster.com.

SPEAKER_00 48:17

Please visit get your shirt today.

SPEAKER_04 48:20

But so I got a bone to pick with you on that, actually. Can we get fat boy sizes? Yeah. I went to buy, I was gonna buy the Ted Lasso shirt.

SPEAKER_00 48:29

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:29

And it was only going up to 2x.

SPEAKER_00 48:31

Just tell, yeah, say the word. I need you. I need 3x. We'll open that sucker up. I need 3x. And same thing, if you ever get an idea, is obviously we're very niche as far as whatever comes to mind. We'll slap it on a shirt or a coffee mug in a second. So you ever get an idea, send it to me. We'll uh we'll mass produce that baby.

SPEAKER_04 48:51

Yeah, the idea of a little collab line. Yeah. With 2x? 3x. I'm a I'm I'm a thick boy working on it. Mostly because of the height, actually, is the 3X thing.

SPEAKER_00 49:01

Okay. Yeah, no, I'll open that up for sure. All right.

SPEAKER_04 49:04

Um, but with that in mind, um, I know you like to read a lot uh books, and I mean you've you've got a little side project, but that I'm not sure I should it might be okay.

SPEAKER_00 49:13

Yeah, that's that's been going on for a few years now. Ben's book journal? Yeah, it started off because I um you know I've been reading so many books, but I have a terrible memory. Um so I'll you know, I'll highlight, take note, and uh take notes of all the books I'm reading, and then I'll I'll I it started off as just a per it still is just more of a personal thing of um where I can access uh I read this somewhere and I can just pull up the website and I can search and find the note, the the the quote or whatever. So yeah, Benjamin's book journal, it's on Instagram too. I just opened it up for all you college kids that need references. I cited everything. So and if you need a lesson on how to cite, Chicago style is my preferred. So if you're an M MPA, you're out of luck.

SPEAKER_04 50:00

Um so um books that have like any any books that have like shipped you.

SPEAKER_00 50:07

Yeah. Um yeah, I I was that's tough because there's so many good ones. Um we were talking about this the other night, um, you know, our favorite books. Uh I did I I guess for this question, I I narrowed it down to one. And so in college, I um one thing about me in college I studied uh actually linguistic anthropology. Wake up. Linguistic anthropology. It's like how does I know it sounds very boring. Um but it's like how does language influence behavior and behavior influence uh linguistic relativity? It's really I I don't know. I may be the one person that likes it or is gets excited about it, but the big word Drew's googling the words.

SPEAKER_02 50:53

Oh, I was I was finding Benjamin's book, you know.

SPEAKER_00 50:57

Um so yeah, there's so there was there's two guys in particular that led the field um or kind of started the field. Um Edward Sapir and Benjamin Lee Wharf, they created this hypothesis of does your language influence your behavior or does behavior influence your language? If you just think about that for a second, you'll go deep into like you know, something we take for granted, language and words and meaning. Uh it's all around us. And I'm starting to hear more and more people kind of talk about those uh concepts, but there's an actual field for linguistic anthropology. Um, so the the guy uh Benjamin Lee Wharf, he never really published, he had a lot of works that he was working on, which I can attest to. I feel like I could connect to I've got so many things I'm working on, uh stuff books I'm writing and and trying to finish up and all this. But he's he was he he actually went to school to be a chemist and he was working as a I forgot when he was doing but he was in uh chemistry and and all this stuff, but just he was so fascinated with the Bible and he wanted to learn Hebrew just as a personal passion. Um and so he focused on, he got, he went deep into this field just and started taking classes just as a hobby kind of thing. Um and so somebody came, one of his colleagues came behind him and after he died, collected all his work, put it together. It's called uh uh language thought and reality. It's one of the few things that he has that he actually published. Um Benjamin Leeworf. So like just having like look at because like you know, you and I work together. We're we're we work uh you know in the insurance industry and you know, some something I'm not, I guess, particularly super passionate about. It's just something that we do. And but you know, to look to to somebody that had such a you know kind of a hobby that turned into a passion is ended up setting kind of setting the stage for a field. Um, you know, I just I really feel like I connected with that one, but uh with him and and and all his writings and everything, it's it's very interesting to like just as a like when you think about something, right? We well I I'll use this example as just a quick example to kind of like fill this in. Um you put me on with the preacher, you really handicapped me. So don't think this the wrong way. You you think about our culture, right? So the French, well when you think about the French culture, what do you think of? You think food?

SPEAKER_04 53:40

Surrender.

SPEAKER_00 53:41

Surrender. The French actually have a word for something stuck in your teeth. Like I can describe something stuck in my team, I don't have a single word for it. Yeah, so uh culture, you know, real the language is indicative of culture in a lot of ways. And you think about, you know, how many words do we have, and this may sound crass, how many words do we have for sex in the English in our American English culture? My my vulgar, non-vulgar, my my best count has been like 19. I can think of 19 words to 50 more, we're there. Yeah, I don't know, that's a low number. Now think of how many words do we have for love. And love can even apply to the other ones. Yeah, right, yeah. Wow. I feel like that's a great gateway example to, you know, yeah, because I linguistic anthropology, nobody cares. Yeah, snore fest. But when you start thinking in those in those terms, like you start, and especially like, you know, I not to sound conspiratorial or anything or anything like that, but it's like you start to realize like how how easily and quickly you can be manipulated. Um, and and how many arguments and debates can boil down to just failing to define the terms, you know. Um I have another story for that, but I won't keep going. So anyway.

SPEAKER_04 55:02

For me, it was the magic tree house. It was just it had pictures. It was good, it was perfect. James and the giant peach. Yeah, yeah, right. Enough pictures in it for me to know what's going on without having to read.

SPEAKER_00 55:15

Yeah. What was the question? Sorry. Anyway, uh book. The Koran. Read that one, by the way.

SPEAKER_04 55:26

There was this one at the gas station that had a cover on it. I didn't get my uncle to buy it. Um, I can't segue into another. All right.

SPEAKER_00 55:38

Um I guess Macy's a big reader too. Uh I didn't know if you were moving on questions, but you're the only one that that question was for.

SPEAKER_01 55:46

You're the only one doing linguistic anthropology. No, actually, I didn't know Ben that you had studied that, and that that illuminates so much for me.

SPEAKER_00 55:56

He's got a he's got a friend that has come in and I guess guest preach or whatever for us a few times. Um, I can never remember his name. I always call him Mark. Mark Bauer. But I always call him Mouse Rat because he looks exactly like Andy from Park Square. Yeah. So Mouse Rat, he and I, because he he teaches along the same lines, and and some of the stuff he says is like it's along those same lines as an amazing guy. Um yeah. Do you have a book?

unknown 56:24

Do you have a book?

SPEAKER_01 56:25

Do I have a book that has I mean he has to say the Bible.

SPEAKER_00 56:29

I mean, what a question.

SPEAKER_01 56:33

Yeah, I mean, um, I don't know if I have a book. I have authors. There's uh there's an author named Henry Nowen that really challenges the view of leadership. Even as we talked about it in in marriage, um, you know, I I would say, Drew, that my marriage, it seems like works a more a lot more like yours. Um we are an equal partnership and we we um try to lean on our giftedness more than like some assigned roles. And um and Henry Nowen speaks to that, I guess, in in his in his writing on leadership, because what he would say is that if you are if you're gonna say I'm the leader in any sort of relationship, what you're saying is I am taking the bottom rung. And you and you mentioned that, like you said when you said, you know, I'm gonna lead, I'm gonna serve. I'm gonna like that's exactly right. Like leadership truly looks like serving, sacrifice. It is not it is not the authority. It is I am the first one in to serve, I'm the first one in to sacrifice. Um and and that's been really impactful for me.

SPEAKER_04 57:48

So I really I put this question in there for you to ask us because it feels weird for me to ask. Uh, do you have the doc pulled up? Yeah, which one? Uh number eight.

SPEAKER_02 57:56

I'm gonna skip around a little bit after this one so we can kind of uh for those of you who are dads, how did becoming a father change the way you see manhood?

SPEAKER_04 58:07

Read that like very intently, by the way. Is that a bad thing? No, no, I'm just kidding. I like it's not like you were struggling to get through it. No. For those who remember up when he's like, Dear Mr. No, I was never good at popcorn reading. Leave me alone. Move on, answer the question. Uh uh, I'll start on this one. Um, patience is obviously the big one. Um, on being a dad. There have been times where I've just wanted to absolutely bicycle bicycle kick Carson through the wall. Last week. Yeah, like well, this week, yeah. During the show last week. Yeah, during the show, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. No, um patience is a big one, man. It that is actually for me, that's the biggest one, and that's the one I'll kind of latch on to. Just because for so much of my life I had the short, I had the short temper. And it was like the fuse was it you barely had time to light it before you can get away. Um and it it's it's really been a test for me. I mean, sometimes I still struggle with it, but um to to know that you can't you can't go after this person like you would have like 10 years ago. You you just can't. He he's a kid, he's vulnerable, he needs you to be his dad. Um so that that's been a patience would be the big one for me.

SPEAKER_01 59:28

It's interesting that you said that um I had a friend when when my wife was pregnant with our first kid, I had a friend that said, All right, when this baby's born, while it's still a newborn, you are gonna have violent thoughts about this kid. And the only thing that's that separates you from being a criminal is you're not going to you're not gonna act on them. Right. And then I was I just kind of like laughed. I thought he was making a joke. And then you're so very tired, right? And you're putting your kid trying to get him back to sleep in the middle of the night. And I remember laying him down one time, and immediately he woke back up, and I was like, There's the violent thoughts. I'm just like so tired and angry that you're not staying asleep.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:09

I think that's a part of it that nobody wants to talk about. So I'm glad you're bringing that up.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:13

Yeah, um, for me, like, and you mentioned just how vulnerable children are. Um, I I think for me the challenge um became how am I gonna be emotionally available for this kid? Like this kid needs me to be his dad, and that means that he's gonna need me to be emotionally available for him, and to be in a place where I'm emotionally mature enough to respond to his problems and his struggles and his questions um in a way that's actually helpful. And that that responsibility just felt heavier once I had a once I had a kid. I mean, I knew kind of that that was gonna be a part of being a dad, but once you have the child and especially when they start to talk and they start to bring problems like that responsibility to be emotionally available for your kids felt heavy, but also but also really important. It's really important.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:09

I don't know, I don't feel qualified to speak on this just yet. I'm only three three years in.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:15

But you've been through the I mean, three is the you're you're in the you're in the tough time now.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:20

It's taught me a lot about potty training. Uh that's where we're at right now. But as far as like I guess the what's throwing me off is the the the manhood part is like I I don't know what it's taught me about being a man or manhood or anything like that. I I do what I have observed and noticed is what it's taught me about, like we've been talking about selflessness um and love. And because it's like a new achievement has been unlocked. And it was almost it's like I've never had something come about so instantaneously. Um and I've told a story before a few times is you know, in that in that waiting room, it's like you know, like our friend Tyler asked asked me, you know, what's it like having a kid? And you know, the best way, yeah, your friend. Our our work workplace proximity partner, junior adjuster, Tyler. Uh he he went, he asked me, uh, you know, what's it like having a kid? And you know, just like the best way I could put it is like, you know, we've we've talked about all these relationships, like grandfathers, parents, brothers, uh, for like close friends. In all of those relationships, there's some in some degree, in some form or fashion, there's some you know, instance of of hesitation and reserve of I don't want to come on too strong, I don't want to hurt this person, I don't want to be hurt, I don't want to be vulnerable and exposed. But when it comes to my daughter, and I think you know, and maybe it's a it's a father-daughter thing. I can imagine having the same feelings for a son, but I might be wrong, but you know, it's like I none of those reservations and holdbacks mattered one bit. The second in that in that delivery room, when when I saw her for the first time, like all bets are off. I love this this girl, and nothing's gonna, she's there's nothing she's gonna do to stop that. There's nothing anyone can do to stop that. Um obviously you had the fears of as far as like I don't I have an extreme phobia now of choking. Like I'm terrified of choking because I'm not fully you know confident that I can handle it uh or you know fix it. But uh other than that, you know, it's like it's like you've unlocked a whole nother level of of love and and and selflessness and emotion that and like I said, it just comes on it came on for me so fast. Like in that room, in that moment, it just happened.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:51

Just just to add to that one, uh situational awareness has been something that has uh just completely like you think maybe you and I talked about this, but anytime you go anywhere, you think about the worst what's the worst thing that can happen where we are right now. And I try you you try to look out to make sure that that thing can't happen. Like a terrible story, and I hate to bring this up, but literally just an example of you never know is the family at Coconut Creek a couple years ago. Uh don't know if you know that story. Um if you don't, uh I I don't really want to go into the speci specifics of it, but there there was a family that lost their two children at Coconut Creek, and it was like the most freakish way, freak freakish thing possible that you that you would never expect to happen. But it it so you hear those stories and you see those kinds of things happen. Um another thing for me, um and I don't know that this necessarily is a lesson, but it's just something that I I wanted to bring up tonight. Because for me, it it I want to be better than my dad was in so many ways. But I also want to be exactly what he was. So being able to take the best and worst of my dad and take you know, take the best, apply it, take the worst, and not do it. And I want my son to be able to do that with me. He's gonna have to, if that's it, like to be able to grow up one day, take the best of his dad for his kids, and take the worst of me and get rid of it. And he's his kids will do it too, and it's a continuing trend.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:19

And you touched on it uh uh right then and there, because for me, like I'm not a father, but speaking on it as as a son who my dad kind of did exactly what you uh just laid out. My my dad literally, whenever I bought a house, whenever we bought our house, whenever we moved here, the first words out of my dad's mouth were you guys are are way ahead of where me and your mom were at at your age. And I was like, What do you think? I was like I was like, Dad, what are you talking about? And he goes, Well, this and he like laid it out. We were he laid it out where they were uh financially, where they were Uh my dad was working at a restaurant, not saying it's a bad job, but I had a full 40-hour week job that I was Monday through Friday.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:09

So it's like I know a top golf employee over here.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:15

I said it's she's not a server. Halfway a restaurant. But it's not a real job. It's uh but I was uh having my dad tell me that I was far uh I was so far ahead of where they were, and and I was like, I was like, what like okay, like yeah, uh I'm I might be better. And he goes, All parents all parents want to see is their kid do better than what they did. Yep. And hearing my dad say that really put it into perspective for me because I know my wife's parents think the same way. And and it's just it it really changed my eyes, changed my thought process on how to go about my life and just set up for set up for the future from that perspective as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:09

And a little bit to your point, Kyle, I've one thing I've found that because I'm like that too. There's I mean, there's obviously there's great things about you know my grandfather, my dad, um, who I've kind of danced around with my brother and my and my grandfathers, but my dad, there's a lot of great things that I want to emulate, but there's also things that I don't want to do. I uh you know, I get what you're saying, but I've also found like the more I try not to be, the more I hear him come out. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was such a John Maxwell thing to say, you know. Your John Maxwell show and you gotta pull back.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:42

Well, my dad was almost a pro in everything. That's a little that's a little inside joke.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:48

I'll tell we'll tell you guys about that one day. Every now and then Michaela will look at me and go, okay, Dwayne. And I'm like, hey, hey, hey, am I really being my dad right now? Like, what's going on?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:58

It's gotten so bad. My wife will start saying, My John Max will show like for her. She's like, my John Max will show. He's even rubbed up on her.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:08

Um, all right, so there's three more uh that I've definitely wanted to make sure we hit. Um I I do want to ask you, Matthew, because uh, you know, burnout is it's so hard as a father, as a man, but in your position, um I know that your job can take a lot out of you because it there's just parts of it that people don't see behind the scenes. Uh obviously uh you know you deal with a lot of things that people don't see every day. Um so how do you protect yourself and your family from that burnout?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:41

Yeah, I'm not sure that I'm doing that really well right now. Like to be honest, I'm not I'm not sure I'm doing that real well. I think that I mean, I think most jobs are hard. I'm I think I mean I I do think that um when you're in a church, there are people that will check on you and say, you know, when you're a pastor of a church, they'll check on you and say, hey, you know, how are you doing? Are you are you being healthy and your uh work-life balance and things like that? But most people's jobs are hard. Um there is some added emotional difficulty or spiritual difficulty when you're dealing with people's problems a lot and things like that. I'll tell you what's been hugely impactful for us, and it it goes back to your uh opening day baseball joke earlier. Um we Sabbath, like we legit Sabbath on Saturdays, and we don't do any work. Not not my wife or I, not our kids. Like there is no responsibilities, no expectations at all that anything is accomplished in any way. And um anything that is producing in any way is all is all just a free choice if you decide to do that. We started doing that probably um a year and a half ago out of a necessity because we weren't doing well with the with work-life balance. And that has been hugely impactful. And I think I think that really it's something that's been lost um in our in our culture, in our world, when it's available, if it's available to you to Sabbath, I would highly recommend it. We take a sap break from our phones, from I mean it's it's just super super help, yeah, super helpful and and rejuvenating for us. I like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:20

To go back to a question you asked, Matthew, is like, you know, do we tell people, those people that influence us, do we tell them how much we appreciate them? One thing, and that this this isn't me trying to make up for lost ground earlier in the show, but like I do try to express that to you, uh, you know, especially in your role and position, because um, you know, I can't even imagine, you know, like Kyle said, there's so much that you you have in your role that you deal with that goes unseen. But also, you know, we in the in our culture, we think about you know, with all our differences and everything, we just need to come together. We need to find common ground, we need to find ways to come together. And one thing that I love that we've been able to do at our church is um bring together, we have such a diversity of uh, you know, economic diversity, uh, political uh diversity, and and um, you know, even spiritual diversity, theological diversity. We have so much of that. And and everybody seems like to be wanting that, but there's a hard reality that comes with that, and that's getting along with one another, you know, and and especially when you have to you you know stand up week after week and in front of large this large group of diverse thought and and you know kind of walk that line. I feel like you and I from my perspective, I feel like you do a really good job at that. And and you know, I can imagine all the you know, afterward, all the the toll that you have to do with you know dealing with any kind of blowback, but I think that's something we all have to kind of realize. Show I want to show appreciation, I want to make sure I said that, but also realize the the the gravity of some of this stuff. Like, you know, we want everyone to get along, want everybody to to come together, but you really think of the reality and the and um you know what that brings about. That means getting along with people that you disagree with, you know, and and learning how to um coexist for lack of better word with with one another.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:20

Yeah, and I would say it's it's not I would go further than that. Thank you, first of all, for um So I don't have to come forward someday.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:27

You still do.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:28

I mean, but um no, I think it's even deeper than just let's get along, like let's find a way to coexist. I think that's important. That's like baseline, but I think the the more important, more impactful move is to is to start to say, hey, we won't grow. We will like we won't grow spiritually, we won't grow emotionally, we won't grow deeper ourselves if we surround ourselves with people that agree with us, right? Because then all you're doing is is you have an echo chamber affirming what you already think, and you're wrong about some things. All of us are wrong about some things. We only learn that we're wrong about some things by listening to people who think differently than us. And so it's it's more than just coexist, right? It's seeing I need diversity in order to get closer to truth and to grow to grow deeper.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:16

That's definitely one thing that I've I've just discovered, you know, with with our group is is I've grown more. You think about I keep you know, go we if you think in spiritual terms, like you know, we're to be fishers of men, you know, Christians are called Jesus calls people to be a fisher of man. And you know, I used to take that as I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna I gotta change everyone. But I started to learn, and especially with such a diverse group, that you know, I'm learning a lot uh from others. I have a lot to learn from others, and it's it's a humbling, a humbling thing, and and um you know, just it really does change your approach to uh to so much, uh not you know spiritually especially.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:02

Yeah, I just I can't imagine. I I just can't. I it's because I I thought about it when you came up to me last Sunday and I'm like this guy to myself for a while, and and you didn't make me feel this way, but I I just I was like, man, he deals with I I'm not the only person that does that. There's no shot, there's no way. So I know that you carry not you carry the burden of your job. You carry the burden of preaching the one good thing about the diversity is that everybody is there for one purpose. Whether, you know, it might be in a different from a different perspective, but there is one everybody there is coming there for one reason, and that's for for God, for Jesus. Um But I love that it is more of an open forum. I do want to say that. I I love that it's uh it it's a group discussion and it's it's just so wide open, but you carry that weight, but you also carry you carry the weight of every person that walks into that uh walks into that sanctuary every week and especially the ones that come back. And you the you the first day you came up to us and you had a conversation with us. And so I like like I told you, I latch. When I find those people, I latch. And um, so like my problems are yours. But you bet but you care, but you carry that. And and and I I know it's not easy, so I I wanted to ask you about that. Um we're the I was just texting Drew, like, man, like we're kind of running long here. Um, so I have to cut a couple questions out. But one of the ones I wanted to um make sure that we got in, um, and this is that if you're comfortable uh question, um just talk a you know talk about a time where you felt like you were coming up short as a man, a husband, a father. If you're comfortable with uh going into that.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:53

Uh for me it's been probably this past month. It's just been uh rough time with work and not really being able to do what I do what I can. I just I I I haven't felt fulfilled at work being able to uh uh accomplish things. I'm uh I'm the the great uh tandem of a people pleaser and a perfectionist. So uh you add those two things together and and things go wrong whenever you're trying to put up drapery or a shade and something goes wrong, and immediately you have to tell the homeowner, hey, I can't put this up today, or I've got to come back. And they're like, Oh, okay. I really wish this would have been done today, or I really wish you had all the right parts, or blah, blah, blah, this and that. It might seem like a blip on the radar to most people because it's drapery, it's not life or death. They they lived with it with for they lived without it for a couple weeks, they can live without it for a couple more. But for me, I take it so much to heart that no matter no matter if it was the manufacturer's fault, the designer's fault, my fault, whoever's fault it was, I take it so much to heart that I let it I I not only let it affect that job, I bring it to the next job and the next job. And it got it it got so bad that I was already like I was driving to a job, looking at the work order, trying to get a game plan of what I was gonna do, and I was already picturing myself disappointing them on the way to a job. And I was like, I called my wife, unfortunately, she was uh she was in the shower, but um then I called my mom and my dad and just talked with them, and like I was on the verge, like in the middle of talking to them, driving to a job, and on the verge of throwing up, just burst into tears, like driving, just talking to my mom, listening to her, and talking to my dad, and just having and it even goes back to to the very first question that you asked. The the the things that my mom said uh the main thing that stuck out to me was she she named both of my grandfathers, both of my grandmothers, my both of my parents, and she was like, You have their blood in you. The blood that is that the blood that showed you that you can overcome anything and you can figure things out. Whatever problems arise, you can there's always a way to figure out how to make it work. That blood is inside of you as well. You're not just some some guy that's just off the street going, yep, okay, I'm gonna try and figure it out. And and you know what's going on. And so it was just um it it's been a rough mental couple of weeks for me uh trying to figure out, and and my wife has uh has definitely stood by my side 100% being it being there uh that day. Uh one of the worst days, I literally called her. I'm leaving work. My day ends ends at five. I'm leaving work at seven. Driving back, and I call uh she called me. She was like, Hey, are you uh uh uh what do you want to do for dinner? I said, I am done with today. She goes, Do you have a bad day? I said, Yes, I I I am just done with today. I don't know. I've I I think I have leftovers in the fridge. I'm gonna take care of that. I'm gonna go in, I'll do that. Do you want me to pick up something on the way? She goes, No, don't worry about it. I I've got an idea. I get home, she met me at the front door, there was dinner on the table, she met me with a hug. We just stood there for a solid like two minutes, just hugging me, making sure I was okay, taking care of me. And then she goes, Hey, go ahead and have a seat. I've already cued up. We we watch NCIS. We're 75 years old, so we still we still watch NCIS, but we she already had it queued up. She had my location, so she knew I was getting close, but she she was ready to go, and she was just like, You don't have to think, just sit down, eat. And and it's just it it kind of how we had talked about earlier, Matt. Um our marriage works in tandem. We're a team, and neither one of us feel like we wear the pants. We we both know that at the end of the day we we can lean on each other. And the the biggest uh piece of advice, marriage advice that I always give out to to my friends, as well as uh I said it a couple weeks ago on the show, um marriage is not fifty-fifty. Some days it's eighty-twenty, some days it's forty-sixty. Whatever, if your partner needs that extra help, be that extra help. Yeah, they will be it for you. And once you find that person that you're willing to go over that 50% for, that's your person. That's who you were meant to be on this earth for.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:13

Yeah, I think I think what you're saying is something similar to something I've heard or read, that it's not 50-50, it's a hundred and a hundred. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:21

At least you don't listen to them.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:25

Dinner on the table when I get home is the expectation. Me and Kyle have a good thing going, don't you screw this up?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:32

But yeah, but some days you don't have a hundred to give, right? Like some days you have 20 to give or less than, and and your spouse is still like it in those days you hope your spouse meets you there. Yeah. Obviously, for you that happened, your spouse met you there with 100%, right? Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:47

Um But yeah, that it's it's just been uh and and still still to this day, like I said, I'm talking to my parents weekly, talking to my wife uh uh daily, um, but just trying to figure out like what the my mom put it as as uh if you think about it as a tree, it's behavioral uh behavioral correction. If you say, Oh, I never put away my laundry, I'm gonna do better at that. You're just cutting the branch off a tree, but you're not getting to the root of the problem. Yeah, I like that. Ben?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:25

Yeah, I'm um oh, a couple things similar to what you were saying. When you said the you got that blood, you know, of your your parents, your your grand grandparents, you know, I I I think that's an interesting way of looking at it. I've looked I've looked at it similarly, like a the voice. Uh like I can still hear my you know, my grandfather, the one that taught me how to fish and everything, love to tease. And that's how I that's how I was trained was boy, you better pick that fish up. You know, don't you you know, you handle that fish, and and especially when we're working on something, you you know, you you he'd he'd he'd tease you and taunt you, you but you know, he's you know he still loves you and he still showed showed that. So like when I'm doing something, like I was cutting branches at a tree by our shed, um, and I was just trying to cut the branches overhanging the the shed, and I'm up on the ladder, I'm at the chainsaw, and then I got something just out of reach. I'm on the top rung of the ladder, chainsaw over my head, and I can still hear his voice. Okay boy, you think that's a good idea? And but it's enough to kind of catch my attention, and you know, and you so you have the blood, you have that that voice, those voices that linger and and kind of keep you in check. They're they're still there. Um but also like what you're talking about, you're taking things to heart, um, which I feel like I've gotten uh uh away from a little bit in a good way, uh not taking yeah, because that used to be like that. I think Hurricane Michael fixed that. Um I've I've struggled uh with empathy ever since Hurricane Michael, just because when you deal on such a large scale, it it'll take a take a toll. But one thing that I've struggled with is getting too focused. Um because I'm all about efficiency and and Lacey, my wife, she calls it my itchy brain. I have to finish things, I can't leave things undone. Um and um, you know, but I've I've started and she's I'd say I'd realize it, she's brought it to my attention that uh, you know, and and I've noticed I get too focused, I get too narrowly minded of okay, we're gonna do this, gotta do this, go to this, go to this, instead of being um, you know, and and there's intentionality to that, but being intentional in a way of of enjoying, you know, it's not just from getting from point A to point B, but that that road from point A to point B, enjoying those moments. I've noticed like these last couple years, especially with a three-year-old, the time has flown by and I've realized I've got to stop and start appreciating and enjoying these moments and not just trying to get to the next thing. Okay, we get potty training done, now we've got to you know focus on this. Um, but just enjoying and going with it, and um you know, just it it's it's really tough, especially with like I said, my itchy brain where I can't leave things undone. I gotta I gotta focus. It's so hard to shift year sometimes, but but that's been the the the thing that I'm learning right now. Um as far as that goes.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:22

Yeah, so the question is a time when we felt like we were coming up short as a husband or father. Yeah. In 2019, I mean I had to come to terms with several years, you know, a few years of being just non-intentional about my own emotional health, spiritual health, integrity. Um, and it just kind of all like like washed over me um un unasked for one day. And uh and I had to go to my wife and and confess some things and and and bring a lot of like pain into my marriage. And um, but because it was wreck it was it was a um I had to reckon with um that I was coming up short as a person. And uh and that brought a lot of just a lot of struggle and pain into our marriage. I remember praying, God just get us back to normal. And I I will say, um, I will never pray that prayer again. Like I I think that I don't think that my bad decisions or bad um, you know, just lack of intentionality in my in my growth and life was of God's doing, but God moved into that and and started to work um to bring about something that was better than than our normal, right? Our normal is what got me into that spot. And so we had we had several months of very, very difficult work um to do in our marriage and and in my in my own life. And um but we started to see God's healing in that and we got to a better place than than we've ever been. Um but it took admitting that I was not doing very well at life.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:58

Yeah, yeah. I think that's always the first step, isn't it? I mean, it's the it goes back to the um the vulnerability thing, which is I mean, uh just huge. Um but for me it's we're we're living in it, right? Like it's the it's the moment, like right now. Um you know, you guys I'm pretty open on the podcast about everything. Like we we we got a pretty hard deadline on either buying this or getting out uh or starting the process. Um we don't have to own it by that deadline, but um I I like to create that fake like you you you guys understand what I'm saying. Like i if I tell myself it has to be that, yeah, then it has to be that.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:40

The expectation.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:41

Yep, exactly. Um so we're so we're trying to do that, we're working our tails off, we're getting better, and then boom, my car is done. I i we're on borrowed time. My uh my hazard light came on today. That was uh that was a little meltdown.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:55

Um just now came on. Where's it been?

SPEAKER_04 1:28:02

I noticed as I was driving it today. It was a little more shaky.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:05

There might be something wrong with your car.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:08

Maybe so. Um I noticed as I was driving it today, it's a little more shaky than usual. I'm like, we need to get that thing in. We might delete this episode so that the uh dealership doesn't hear that.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:18

But um but not that car, another car, or the insurance company.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:23

So last was two weeks ago. Um, and unfortunately it came to a head as I was walking into the office. I I dropped my car off. Uh we dropped it off on a Wednesday night after church. Uh, we took one car. I took Rachel to work because uh the the shop is our buddy Chris Purser's shop, uh, which shout out to them, uh Roadmart on 77, no free ads, but go check them out. Uh they do great work and they're really fairly priced. Um you know they so Chris took good care of me. I dropped it off Wednesday night and you know so Thursday morning took Rachel to work and I was a little you know a little late walking in the door. So by the time I was getting there, Chris is calling me and he's like, Yo, you got a second? Like, I mean kind of, but not really. Uh but you know, because I'm walking into the office 45 minutes late. Um and he hits me with your car's done, your car's screwed, you're on borrowed time. And it's just so also that week we we found mice in our home. Uh not like in the hot house, but like in the garage. Everybody's good. We're good. Um we've we we found out we have a mouse problem. We got hit with some extra stuff out of nowhere, um you know, financial burden, which that that happens to everybody. Um and then you know, the house situation was starting to come to a head, and then that was like that just nail. And I remember because it was on a Thursday and we had a show that night, and I just dude, I was like, I felt so small, help, you know, hopeless, helpless. And and it and luckily I had I had you right there. So I I actually texted all you guys that told them to get over it, get back to work. Dude, suck it up and get money released. I don't care.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:05

Your problems are bad.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:06

You have six cases you have to get done today. What are you doing?

SPEAKER_04 1:30:09

Dude, I uh but I I've I fell apart that day. And and so literally, right now in this moment, like I I'm feeling like, dude, like I gotta do more. There's gotta be something more I can do because now I've I've gotta get a new car or I'm gonna end up losing what little value this thing does have, right? Um, but that's gonna hurt my debt to income, so I'm gonna have to make more money. Well, that means I gotta push a little bit harder at work. Um, but it it's I think Ben loves to hear that.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:38

I I think I'm gonna slash his tires on my lamb. Please, I need new ones. Um the best numbers we've had.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:47

Dude, if you cut my brake line, I'm gonna start pulling wires up. Um if there's any left. But I also think there's some mental thing to that where I'll fix that check engine light in a minute.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:00

Sorry.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:02

Engine checked, pal. Get back to work. Um I I do think though that there is uh that we create those situations because if you feel complacent, then you're certainly not gonna do good enough. So if you always feel like you're I don't want to say you should always feel like you're not doing enough. Like that's the wrong way to put it, but I think if you have Tom Brady said perfection is unachievable except for one human being that's ever lived. So it's the most fun goal to chase. And that and I think that that's so if you chase perfection, you're never gonna stop chasing. And so I think that that's kind of what that boils down to.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:43

That's such a real that's such a real feeling though of we we put these expectations. One the expectation part of and and and I've really had to check myself as far as you know, yes, there's there's probably more I need to be doing, if I'm honest with myself. But I also part of that is checking the expectations where you know and I go back, you know, spiritually, it's like I this my life is not my own. It's like what am I supposed to, you know, what am I what should I be learning in this moment? But also like I gotta quit trying to make things work the way I want them and I foresee them working, and a lot of times they start working out a lot better than I could ever imagine. But that whole feeling of I'm not doing enough, that's a real feeling, and it's uh it's it's a tough one.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:34

And something stuck out to me from uh I I we always have those people that we lean on, and someone that I've neglected that I have leaned on as well was Kyle. And he kind of thought finally, my I mean he it was last week. Uh he texts me. Uh we we text like at least three to four times a week. Um, but it was uh Monday, March 2nd. Um, we're just talking, and he reaches out to me about some different ideas and and trying to figure out what the next steps for uh here and yeah, because we were trying to figure we weren't gonna have her for the whole month of March, we thought, right? Exactly, trying to figure everything out. And I wasn't necessarily replying to my normal stature. I he he just calls me out about it. He was like, Hey, um, I know you're working, but I feel some anxiety from the short responses and just a thumbs up. And so that's whenever I just kind of was like, I'm not really feeling like me. But then we started talking about it, and he was honestly being a great friend and just being there for me and helping me out. But there was I had made a comment and I was I said, I literally said, like, I have a good life. What the what is wrong with me? I gave I have a beautiful wife who loves me and would do anything to make me happy, a good job that pays well. I have a house and two dogs, I'm not struggling for food or water. Like, what's wrong? And he his response like really hit me, and I don't even know if you remember what you replied. I don't is that my theory on that is that because we have those things, we want to do better than we do, even though we aren't doing bad. And that kind of hit me hard because it's like I always have the statement, and I I use this professionally as well as uh personally, there's always up. I'm always doing something wrong, but that's a learning block, and there's always up you can go. You're not the best at whatever you're doing. I don't care who you are. So at the end of the day, there's always there's always better that you can be, and if we're complete, if we're always striving to be better, that's not a bad thing. We just our minds turn it into a bad thing because we're always like, Well, I don't have a place, I don't have this, I don't have that, this person has this. That whenever you start looking at other people, that's when things turn bad. But at some point you've just got to realize, like, hey, it it's less about the journey. Look at the desk, uh, it's less about the destination, look at the journey. Stop and smell the roses.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:28

Yeah, my like it's the climb. But yeah, no, it's just like you know, the expectations get inflated and and and can be corrosive. The pressure, and I think this is where you started. The the pressure you put on yourself is often a lot more than than the reality of the situation. Uh at least in my experience, that's been the case on them many times. Um, and then, you know, kind of I guess what you're talking about too is going back to a place of gratitude. When you get that place you're not doing enough, what I need to be doing more, I need to be doing more. Um, you know, and I and I found myself praying over and over again, you know, God fix this, God deliver this, God. And I've started just recently figuring out and understanding that it's it's you know, look around at the the come from a place of gratitude and look at all the stuff that you do have, look at all the prayers that have been answered. Exactly. Uh, and I don't give that enough do. I don't count my blessings. I don't, I don't, you know, I'm always asking and never really considering what all he is doing. And and it's like when you feel like you're drowning and you've been drowning for so long, you just you fail to realize actually I've been treading water. I'm not drowning, I've been treading water. I'm just not I'm not you know out of the water like my expectations you know want me to be.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:46

I think a big part of it is also perspective. And it it takes me back to a story where it because it didn't hit me until later that night, but we were in uh that same day, we and I obviously, you know, I've NDAs and all that stuff, so you can't go too much into detail, but we had a client complaining about only netting 240 grand. Um and I was like, dude, I'll call him right now and I will tell him that money that you're complaining about would fix every problem that I have in my life right now. And so later on, it just Drew and I are doing the show that night. It literally hit me as I'm talking. I'm like, dude, how many people can watch this and go, I wish I had a car to complain about, buddy? Yeah. So shut up. Like, right? So it's it's really perspective, it's so important. It it's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:34

Well, we had that with the Kenyan preacher here recently. Didn't he? I forgot what he said to you as far as like the Western culture, the Western church is like I don't know, the stuff that they are working on, and you know, trying to get water and a place to stay, stuff, you know, stuff that never crosses our mind.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:53

Yeah, yeah, and and$240,000, it might fix a lot of your problems. You would find new problems, right? And they wouldn't just be like new, you would discover other problems that you have that that that that money doesn't solve, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:38:06

Yeah. Um or they'd find me, but more likely. But yeah, but yeah, but yeah, but so me saying that to him, like that's a real that that's probably a real problem for him. Like lose you know, losing that little bit of money or only getting that little bit of money. Like, that's a for for the life that he has shaped, that's a big problem. Me losing my car.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:27

That's a big problem. I'm just I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:32

I'm just saying I could buy the house and buy a new car, but do quite a bit.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:36

But there was something kind of to sum that all up, too. That you know, we we've been working a lot in with Kenya, uh, some connections in Kenya, some churches, and we had one preacher that came over, and he he's you know, he he but I forgot exactly what he said. It was something like we we're trying to get to where you all are where you don't have problems, or something like that. Yeah, we're looking at ourselves like we've got plenty, you know, of problems.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:02

What he says, you're so you're so busy with all of these problems, and none of those are the problems that we have. Right. We're we're not we are so folk we are so um consumed with like survival problems that we can't get to the problems that you have, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:27

There's because there's that's why I keep Kyle around.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:31

There's there's there's always no matter what you are going to do. I think that's why my friends keep me around in general. Like they're like, dude, it could be worse. And and on the and on the good end of it, there's whatever problems you're going through, there are people in the world that have gone through the exact same thing. And there are people that you have interacted with that have gone through the same thing. So your your problems, as much as they feel like just your problems, there are multiple people that are going through the same thing, that ride next to you on the subway, sit next to you on the on the bus, drive next to you on the highway. Like you're you're encountering people who are going through the exact same stuff that you were going that that they're going through. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:15

All right. Um gonna end this episode with the same way we end uh every episode every week. Uh, I really feel like we could go three more hours easily, but Danielle's falling asleep over there. She got her blanket on and everything. Go tigers, baby. But um, gratitude. And and you've actually kind of changed this segment last week, and I really am gonna use that moving forward. So, gratitude is a you know, it it's it's a big part of my life, it as you guys know. Um, we we've had this conversation, so we want to do this every week on the show where we end it with a moment of gratitude for a person, uh, an event or a thing that happened this week. Um, so Drew, tell me something good.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:54

Uh, there was a client I went to this morning. Um this morning. Uh he so he lives three houses down from a client who has been nothing but a um uh very terrible client. And never dealt with one of those. It was every like everything that I did at that lady's house was wrong. And now she's coming back and saying, I did I did stuff that I never did, and it it was just a very bad instance, and she got one of our designer's name from a lady in the neighborhood. Well, come to find out, the guy's house that I went to today, he also got the name for this designer from the same person. Well, through neighborhood word of mouth, they found out how much of a hard time they were having, so they started having second thoughts and everything, but then the person who they told the name they got the name from, they told them, Oh no, this lady's just crazy. And so then whenever I got there, like I I knew all this on the front end, so I'm and I was told, like, hey, if he brings it up, just leave it alone. Just go in, do your job, do it to the best of your abilities, and move on. Well, I get there and and and I could tell he was he was being overly nice because he knew like uh he he knew that I had had difficult people in the past, especially down the street. But uh he was overly, overly nice to me, made sure, even helped me pick up trash. Like I'm picking up trash. So uh everything, thankfully, everything at his job ended up going smooth, everything worked out, everything turned out great. He loved everything. As as he was le as I was leaving, I shook his hand. He said, Thank you, you're the man, Drew. And uh after I left, I'm going on the way to my next job, and my boss calls me and is like, hey, I just got an email from the client you left. He's uh he uh he couldn't stop saying how many how much he loved it, how it was he was so grateful that you came out and and you were great, you were so nice and and talkative, like you you were great, and I was just like, Oh, that's exactly what I needed because yesterday ended on a bad note, and it was just it just the way that everything has played out. I'm I'm very grateful for that man. I'm sorry I can't say your name, but um Bill. But it was we all know who you are, Bill. It was definitely a great uh great experience and a and a great time and a great way to start off uh start off a Thursday, especially uh leave it at the table Thursday.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:52

Nice. I mean, I have so much, and I hope the the the most important one, my wife, which I hope I've kind of explained, you know, displayed that throughout the show. Um yeah, Matthew, very thankful for you to um uh an example. Um I guess now I've gotta say Ben.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:18

So much pressure.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:19

Contractually obligated.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:22

You're you're not my boss here.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:24

Every time I cough, I need spirit fingers.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:26

My house. I told Matt when he walked in. I'm like, dude, he can't be late. This is like he's not my boss here. This is my house. Uh my domain.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:34

I think so. Besides all those people and everything, I think uh the best place I guess I could land is I'm thankful for the struggles, honestly. I know it's we'll we're reliving a lot of those and and thinking back, even where we started, we we you know, the people we worked with that we you know started off on the wrong foot. Uh, but I'm thankful for those struggles because they've they've molded me to where I am. And I'm also thankful there's a sense of peace. I don't know if you've gotten there yet. It the the struggles the continual struggles that don't seem to ever end. There is a sense of peace that I've I've started to encounter with it where it's like it's going back to the trading water thing. I feel like I'm about to drown at any second. But I've been when I realize I've been feeling that way for so long, I I realize, you know, God's got me. Um and he he he's had me this whole time. And so you have this realization and this sense of peace that okay, he he's got me. And you know, as long as I yeah, I'm doing everything to the best of my ability and I everything that I feel and know and can discern that is right, at the end of the day, he's he's gonna, you know, my expectations aside, he's gonna make happen whatever's gonna happen. So um I feel like that's probably the best place to land there. I don't really have anything, one particular thing to point to, but um I think we should all just be thankful uh in some way for that struggle and appreciate those.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:08

Yeah, wouldn't wins be meaningless if you didn't lose first? Like if there were losses along the way. Never never lost. I was taking it to again, Tom. I always come back to Tom Brady and I hate him because I'm I grew up a Dolphins fan. I just can't stand Tom Brady. Nothing nothing about the guy like Drew Brees, but my goodness, man. The guy like so good at what he did, but he says, like, my seven Super Bowl wins don't mean as much if I don't lose those two, right? So it it you gotta lose to enjoy your wins. In in breezes, we trust. Breezes, breezes, one Super Bowl win, can't see over the bar. Good for Drew. The man wins. He does. You know, ironically enough, Austin Raigula got me a signed Dante Culpepper jersey, and I'm extremely excited to have it because I love Dante Culpepper. Um, like I loved him at UCF when he was there. Yeah. And I I loved him in Minnesota, did not love him in Miami. Do not love Nick Saban because of Dante Culpepper. We've jumped down a rabbit hole on that one day.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:08

We that's a whole I was about to say, Drew Brees, to you open up a rabbit hole, something that you can put a whole show. You can thank Drew Brees for the state of college football. Everything comes back to Drew Brees as we know it. Yeah, and it's such a fun game to play. We went down a rabbit hole. What ifs? What if Drew Brees goes to Miami? There's a Nick Sabin stays at Miami. There's a YouTube video.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:30

There's a YouTube video I watched about like what if the they it's a guy, uh uh Dave Dombrowski, I think his name was. But he does like he did for a while, he did the the like what the biggest what ifs in sports, and and one of those, I'll see if I can find it.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:46

I'm gonna change my answer. I'm thankful to Drew Brees. Roll time. Y'all just wish you had a ball bear, Brian.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:54

Yeah, I mean I I'm like Ben, I'm thankful for a lot of things, mostly, mostly for the people in my life. You know, go to a church where I get to work with a lot of great, great people, great friends. Um, I love my kids. I like my kids too. That's that's important. Um, but I'm I am I'm gonna highlight my wife. She loves line dancing, and she was driving, she was coming home last night. She went after church, she went out line dancing, and she called me on the way home and to tell me something, but we just chatted the whole way home.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:27

That's over here somewhere, I think. It's at tease. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:31

Um on Wednesdays it's at Tease. Yard bar on Friday.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:35

Okay, I think that's where my aunt goes there too. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:37

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_04 1:48:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:38

Um, anyway, so she called me to tell me something on the way home, but then we stayed on the phone the entire time and just chatting. Not about anything, but just chatting. And when when she got home, she said, I'm like, that was great. Like, I'm just really glad that we like like each other enough to just want to talk on the phone while drive home. So I'm thankful for her.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:57

The comments reset, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:58

I was gonna say something happened. I saw Lacey's.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:01

It doesn't happen every week, but every now and again it just they they reset and then they all roll back through. And I we can't stand it. We don't know why it happens. But I did see Lacey's comment with uh Gabby. She grabbed your phone and said, uh, and she giggled and said, Dad dad.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:16

Okay. No, you brought up line dancing. So fun fact y'all don't know about Lacey. Um Lacey took clogging when she was little. It was a big thing in in lower Alabama and LA. So uh if uh Lauren never wants to get into clogging, I'll let her know. The little peanut princess will uh help her out. Little Miss Peanut.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:35

Um, yeah, for me, uh I'll just bring it full circle back to the just uh generality and say the people everybody in this room, um, and of course my wife and my best friend Scott, um, those people that I can go to when I'm not me, because that's always been something for me is I need to have my support system. And um and I try not to you guys obviously you'll relate to this too. You I don't want to take that to my wife. Like, because it is her problem too. And we do have to deal with it together. So and I and I know she goes through this too. We actually her and I literally just talked about this. Like, we will deal with it together, but we need to be able to deal with it separately as well. Because professionally we have to deal with it together. Emotionally, we can't let each other, we can't boggle each other down. And I think that's unspoken for the most part. But um that's a big thing. So you know, I texted every single one of you guys that day, and I texted you in different ways. It some of it was, well, I didn't have to text you, you were 10 feet from me. But I've I heard enough. I yeah, I never felt so like like helpless in my life than I did in that moment. And it was for some reason, it was just not having an answer. Because usually I'm able to just kind of like articulate something and find something deep within, like, okay, well, maybe we could do this, maybe we could do this. But I literally had no answer in the moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:57

Real quick so to that, I just want to say because I it I the going through that moment, I've I feel like I've gone through that, not saying like I've I know exactly what you feel like, but going through it's one thing, seeing someone go through it. Well, open your eyes because seeing you go through something like that when I feel like I've gone through it myself, but seeing it out from an external perspective, man, that was that was something else. I don't I don't I I just wanted to throw that out there. I mean, just if you ever witness it, it's uh it gives you a whole fresh perspective on things.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:32

I did I I mean I'm I I felt like I held it together relatively well in in the okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:39

No, I I you did. I I I will give you credit that you did.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:43

Because um I was like, dude, I gotta go. But then I I I sat back and I actually Rachel gave me some love for this one too. Like I was like, Ben, I think I'm gonna go. I gotta take a personal day. I just got I gotta get out of here. But then I'm like, well, that doesn't exactly help the situation, does it? Because if I leave, then I'm not getting paid for today. And then that just really, like when you look at it long term, it's just gonna make it worse.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:08

If you feel like you can put your stamp on the day that you've done everything, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:12

Yeah, man. I mean, if you feel like you provided enough for the company, then yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:16

No 45 minutes late. I'm good to go.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:19

I came I came out the gate so hot at work, too, man. I can't, and then uh I've just been ever since. Just came out too hot. They gave me love in a company meeting in front of the whole company, and then ever since then, I think I've just never do that again. Horrible, horrible numbers. Um, all right. So, first of all, thank you guys for coming on tonight. Um, I hope this was enjoyable for you. I hope this was fun. We went way longer than we usually do, and I feel like there was like there's still so much left to be desired here. 100%. Um, so we will do this again.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:51

Real quick, one more thing about linguistic anthropology.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:54

So it really started back in 1920.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:58

Well, let me know when you need an NPJ show.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:00

It must be a ginger thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:02

It must be I was thinking the same thing. You oh, but we didn't even play into the whole Highlander thing. Like we got to battle it out because there can only be one. But when you start blaming him for being long-winded, I felt great because I'm usually the one that gets in trouble.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:16

Dude, you guys could literally not not even a podcast. You guys could just have a a movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:22

I'm serious about the NPR thing. One question.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:24

One question each episode.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:26

Oh, not even a question, a word.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:29

What's your favorite color, Drew?

SPEAKER_02 1:53:32

Oh no, I'm saying our our podcast is one question. We're just sitting there. How how was your day?

SPEAKER_00 1:53:38

What's your favorite color? But I think two hours later.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:43

I do want to say before we before we end it, I do want to say uh I I am really happy with uh with with how many people. I don't know if that number is correct, but it's usually low. Yeah, that number's usually low. So I am I'm very thankful to all the people who are watching and have stayed throughout all of this, uh whatever you want to call it.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:02

Uh but uh we It's the only reason we bring guests on, so it's it's nice to see it pay off.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:07

Exactly. We're we are gracious, uh, we are grateful to you guys, and uh we we are uh ready to go for the next one.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:15

If you stuck it out, um again hit the share button. Make sure you're live, make sure you're subscribed on YouTube, make sure you like and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. And GBO. And uh yep, go to I was just about to get there, Drew. Don't take away my steam. Intros and outros are mine.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:29

Ha ha.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:30

Yes, sir. I'm like shaking. All right, I'll I'll put the mic away. I'm sorry. I'm an eight. This is mine. Yes, yes, no, but yes, uh Goat Bear Lobster, go check them out. Uh Benjamin's Book Journal, go check that out. Uh I I I'll just start listing all your stuff one day once you they're starting a new show. Do you guys have a what's what's the name of the thing?

SPEAKER_00 1:54:52

Small group podcast starting, we're recording tomorrow night. We're not we're not at y'all's level going live just yet.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:58

No, you're you're good. There's not a level. I started in the closet. And then we did a little shed behind Bo's restaurant. There's dimensions to this. This is that this was not uh this was not always the case. This is also not the last iteration. No, this is also not no grow. We want to be better. Um, so yeah, thank you guys for giving us your time. Thank you guys for staying and watching and listening the whole time. If you made it this far on the podcast version, leave us a five-star review. Um, delightfully unhinged. I love it. Yes. We got to get new shirts. We'll talk about that. Um, once again, next week, giveaway winner announced. Um, punishing trivia. I I don't know what's gonna happen on this show next week, um, but uh, it's probably not gonna be great for us. It'll be fantastic for you, but it's probably not gonna be great to be in this studio next Thursday. But again, content is the uh ultimate goal and making you guys happy by making ourselves miserable. We will we will oblige. We do it. Uh all right. Thank you guys so much for watching, listening, and we will see you next Thursday night.