The Truth About Imposter Syndrome

Imposter syndrome is not rare. It is just often quiet.

In this episode of Edge of Excellence, Jess DeForge and Bryon Beilman are joined by iuvo team members Derek Murphy and Ken Hillstrom for an honest, relatable conversation about imposter syndrome, self-doubt, high performance, and growth.

They explore how imposter feelings show up during career transitions, leadership moments, high-pressure work, and periods of rapid change. The conversation also looks at the role leaders play in creating cultures where people feel psychologically safe to learn, ask questions, make mistakes, and continue growing.

This episode is for high performers, emerging leaders, managers, culture builders, and anyone who has ever felt like everyone else has it figured out.

You do not need to eliminate imposter feelings to succeed. You need the right support, the right environment, and the confidence to keep moving forward anyway.

To learn more about iuvo visit iuvotech.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

This is the Edge of Excellence, empowering people to shape the future. Let's inspire, innovate, and explore together. Hello and welcome to Edge of Excellence, the podcast where we explore how leadership, culture, and technology can empower businesses to grow and thrive. I'm Jessica Forge, and today we're diving into a topic that's more universal than most people admit imposter syndrome. And this is a subject that is near and dear to my heart. So I'm really excited to dive in today. Imposter syndrome is those moments where you worry that you're not good enough, that you're in over your head, or that everyone else has it figured out except for you. Today we're talking with members of the AUVO team who have experienced imposter feelings firsthand.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

I'm the co-host Brian Bilman, and here at AUVO, we talk a lot about growth, excellence, and stepping outside your comfort zone. But the truth is, growing, truth is, growth brings discomfort. And discomfort is where imposter syndrome lives and where it likes to live. Today, we're joined by two experts who know this feeling very well. Derek Murphy is a senior consultant at Ayuvo with over 20 years of hands-on leadership experience in IT. He spent his career helping organizations grow and scale, working across Linux, storage, virtualization, automation, and people management. Even with deep expertise, Derek understands how imposter syndrome can show up during moments of complexity, change, and leadership, and how clarity is built over time. We're also joined by Ken Hillstrom, a remote sports specialist at AUVO, educator and lifelong learner. Ken is deeply curious by nature and passionate about learning anything tech related. That drive to learn and growth comes with its own challenges, and Ken brings a thoughtful perspective on navigating self-doubt while continuing to show up, ask questions, and support others. Together, our guests are here to talk openly about the emotional side of high performance and how you can build a culture where it's safe to learn, try, fail, and then try again. Let's jump in.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Excellent. Thank you, Brian. So I want to start off. This is a question for the group, but maybe we'll start with Derek and then we can move to Ken and then Brian, if you have any feedback as well. I'd love to hear from you. I want to ask first what comes to mind for you personally when you think of imposter syndrome, Derek?

SPEAKER_01 2:31

So when I think about imposter syndrome, you know, it is this idea and concept that is, you know, I like to equate it to, you know, scrolls in the brain just sort of gnarring. Uh it is unreasonable doubt. It is uh a moment of um feeling insecure, and uh it is something that kind of sometimes creeps up out of nowhere. Uh so it's you know, it's it's sneaky because you can be feeling great, and all of a sudden, out of nowhere, you start to have, you know, uh feelings of self-doubt. And you know, self-doubt can be a different type of uh uh feeling. So it's you know, it's it's more of a just spontaneous like panic almost.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Yeah, absolutely. Ken, what about you?

SPEAKER_04 3:14

Uh I agree very much with what Derek was saying as far as it being something that will present you with self-doubt and panic. Um, in my experience, it's been something that is be it's an obstacle to trying new things or uh getting into learning something new, um, especially in a working environment. Uh it's definitely a barrier uh to entry for a lot of a lot of people uh that are maybe curious about changing careers or looking to try something new. Um it like Derek was saying, can come out of nowhere, but it also, you know, like if you've had an experience in the past where you've tried something and failed, you know, dramatically or in front of people, or you know, you messed up in an environment and you got in trouble for it. I say trouble, you know, if something happened like that, that really it can live with you know within you for a little while and then kind of fester and turn into more like Derek was saying, come it might seem like it come out of nowhere sometimes, but sometimes it's just waiting. Uh so yeah, oftentimes I've like to define it as a barrier to entry.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

Yeah, I really align with that. What about you, Brian?

SPEAKER_03 4:24

You know, as as the CEO, I think um maybe some people ha think I have it all figured out, which I don't. So uh, you know, it's like so, but when that, you know, like it's like uh I don't know, sometimes so what I'll say to that though is is that what it the philosophy that I've always had is to hire people that are better and smarter than me. And so, you know, I think you have to realize that there's no one person, whether they are in charge of people or they're fostering a culture leadership, a leader leadership of culture, um however you want to say that. And I think that uh so I've had to come to just realize that you know I I may not be, I'm not any smarter or better or anything than any I'm a higher hop hopefully they're all smarter than me. And so you're it's a it's a role I play to make sure that everyone's taken care of. But I do think that uh, you know, as an example, a lot of my neighbors when I talk to them, they say, What do you do? Are you? I say, Oh, I just work at IT. You know, like because I don't it it's the the the title alone sometimes feels uh overwhelming, so I don't really care about the title as much. So but it's it has that that root of imposter syndrome. Like, I don't feel like I'm really I'm not out there saying, I'm in a CEO, but I'm awesome. You know, like more like I just I I just what I work with a team that's awesome, you know?

SPEAKER_00 5:54

No, I love that, Brian. And I remember very vividly my very first event that I did at Ayuvo. And I was so thankful to have you in the booth with me. I was so clearly very nervous. I was very jittery. And um, I think you saw that in me. And at that time had a lot more belief in me than I had in myself. And, you know, we had a conversation about imposter syndrome and just like being confident and this like fake it till you make it mentality. And it really helped me get through that first event, knowing that the CEO, to your point, doesn't have it all figured out and didn't from the start, and that this is like a very normal part of the human experience, especially professionally. Um, what would you all say is when does this show up most often for you? Maybe you've overcome it to a point where it's not really an issue anymore. Maybe it still is, but when do you find it it's coming up most often? Ken, we'll start with you this time.

SPEAKER_04 6:56

When I'm trying something new or when I'm making a big shift, um, when that decision comes with what I would consider uh some responsibility, when that happens and you know that responsibility sets in and you kind of take a step back and look at the broader picture of what you're doing and what you're supposed to be doing. And uh, that's when I see it the most is kind of upfront. Um, yeah, when I'm encountering something like that. So, for example, I'm like you, a career changer uh from education, and you know, pivoting from education to IT is a pivot, like I mean, that's not even horizontal, whatever direction that is. Um and it really it was nerve-wracking because as you know, a IT hobbyist growing up and having that as like a side set skill, like skill set, um, it really didn't get it. The the imposter syndrome set in really, really strongly there. And that was a pretty big decision. I mean, it was a complete career shift from one career to the next. Learning a whole new skill set and trying to learn how to apply them. That's when it came in uh the most for me, I'd say recently. Um here coming up to I'm going to be a parent, and that imposter syndrome is setting in a little bit as well. Like, not really sure. Am I the responsibility looking back at the responsibilities of that is astronomical as well. So you look at those things and you really get a sense of uh am I gonna be able to do this or not? Um so yeah, and here I have found uh this may be leading into a different question, but having a support network is something that really has pulled me out of it. Um either professionally or you know, in my personal life, having somebody or a group of people there uh to really back you up has been kind of the the fulcrum to getting me out of those areas. Uh so it might be the same experience for you, someone else too.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I love that you are talking about not just postterous syndrome when it comes to your professional life, but it can also creep into your personal life. And I think becoming a parent is probably one that a lot of people could relate to as well. Derek, is are there certain times that you find this creeps in more often than others, or do you feel like you're kind of at a point where you've learned to kind of manage this?

SPEAKER_01 9:22

It's something that uh is sort of like a living, breathing organism. You know, I have experienced it many times in my life, you know, when I was uh younger, I think less so, because I think part of imposter syndrome also has to do with experience, you know, learning about you know all the things I don't know. The more experience that I have, the more understanding that I've had about you know computers and IT in general. Um, my background is a computer science background and more of a software development, but you know all of my IT knowledge I've kind of gained through work. And every job I've had has been sort of something I haven't done before. You know, I started off in help desk and then all of a sudden I found myself responsible for engineering organizations. And I'm sitting there going, like, I don't know how they do any of this stuff, but I I figured out and I learned. And, you know, kind of going through the trials and tribulations of like experimentation, you know, you have to lose a little bit of fear and realize that like, you know, it may sound scary and feel scary, but you're probably not going to do anything that cannot be fixed. And the same thing goes for parenting. I know I became a parent 12 years ago and I was horrified. I'm like, oh my God, they're gonna trust me with this baby. And what am I supposed to do? I gotta take parenting classes because you know that's what everybody tells me to do. And then we missed our parenting classes, so I'm like, oh my god, I'm even more unprepared. Like, we're going into this blind. And uh my kid's 12 and we made it, and they're thriving and happy. But you know, it is a scary thing when you know you're presented with something that you've really never done before. And you know, becoming a parent, I think, is uh you know an easy example of that. You know, everybody becomes a new parent for the first time, and there's zero amount of preparation and planning you can do to catch all bad cases. It's just gonna be a surprise for years.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

It's it's honestly it's still a struggle for me. It's something I feel like I battle every day and I have you know moved leaps and bounds from where I was for sure. But like Ken said, I I'm a former educator. Um, and when I realized that the career wasn't aligned for me anymore, that was a really difficult decision. And especially for teaching, it feels so niche, where I struggled to see um where my skill sets would apply to other roles. And it took talking to my community and leaning into them to realize that marketing would be a great transition for me. And I was fortunate enough that Ivo saw, you know, that value that I was bringing to the table. And it's been a goal of mine every year to continue to work on my confidence and trusting myself and kind of combating the imposter syndrome. And similar to what Ken said, you know, the support of the people that I work with has actually helped me more than my friends and family. My friends and family love me no matter what. And so even if I'm like horrific at something, I feel like they're still gonna support and cheerlead. And I feel like the support I've received from my colleagues at Ayuvo has been huge. Um just the fact that Ken, you reached out to me in like my first couple of days and you were like, hey, former teacher, me too. It's okay. Everything's gonna be fine. Like Ken like knew that I was probably dealing with this and he was spot on. So just having people to lean into has been really helpful. But I post about it a lot on LinkedIn because I think it's important to keep talking about it. It helps me to talk about it. And my goal in talking about it is hoping that if there's other people that are struggling with trying something new or transitioning into something new, but are not doing it because they have this imposter syndrome, that maybe they'll be willing to try if they hear more people talking about it and showing that like they overcame it, they took the jump and they were okay on the other side. So, Brian, you kind of touched on this a little bit, but does imposter syndrome still show up for you at all at this point in your career?

SPEAKER_03 13:20

Yes, but I want to back up just for just a moment, just to talk about, you know, each one of you working with each one of you in different capacities. I think you all uh do a great job of not showing that imposter syndrome. And so what it really tells me that you have to have these conversations because you could be overwhelmed or you could feel pressure and you're like, oh my God, I've got myself too deep here. And uh, you know, should I be doing IT or should I be doing marketing or whatever? And so, you know, if you're in the hopefully you're in the right environment that you can say, you can, you know, not everybody, you know, a lot of times you can do do a new job and like I gotta pretend like everything's right, and then otherwise they're gonna know I'm imposter, right? And so uh a lot of times it takes people a while to to break down that, like let their walls down a little bit, and hopefully you can build a cult be in a culture that allows you to do that. And so, um, so you got you know, so I say it, you know, that I'm glad you are all on this podcast to talk about this because perhaps uh you guys are such high performers that you nobody even knows. Uh you you often think that you're you know, you may be doing something terrible, and then you get a kudos because like, whoa, where'd that come from? You know? Uh so you know that's that's kind of thing. So I I totally I put I really appreciate that. Um briefly if on your question, the time it hits me the most probably is when we have a when we have an all-company party where we invite people's friend, you know, families and and all, and I look it out there and it's and like there's not just our employees, but there's you know, four X the type of people or three to four X type people because I go, Oh my gosh, we're not just supporting people, we're supporting their families, and we're supporting, and I'm like, am I don't screw this up, Brian. Right, you know, like so uh that's that's what it gets me the most. So it's it's looking at kind of the the deeper responsibility that you might I might feel at times.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

Yeah, and I think it's helpful to hear from you, from Derek, from Ken, at any level you can feel imposter syndrome. And so just like not feeling alone in something, I think can be really empowering. And I think, you know, Ken, when you were talking about the responsibility, so the weight of responsibility can really impact the level of imposter syndrome that you feel. I feel like that's exactly what you're talking about, Brian. You know, feeling responsible for so many people within the organization that feeling, you know, as well for you. So I want to talk a little bit about what we do within a business organization to help people. So I'm curious what all your feedback may be because some what Brian said is true. You know, a lot of times people with imposter syndrome are also high performers. And it may be difficult to know whether people on your teams are struggling with this. Um, however, it can be really helpful to support them, but how do you support when you don't know? And so I'm curious if any of you have feedback on either questions to ask or things to look for that may help you, you know, address this with your team. Derek, we can start with you for this one.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

Yeah, oh I think, you know, one of the best ways to sort of suss out whether somebody is struggling with that is, you know, building upon just having a very open dialogue with them. You know, in my 22 years that I've been working in IT, I've always worked places where, you know, people first, I've enjoyed the people I work with, I always have a good relationship with my management team. And so, you know, having the feeling of safety and confidence to be able to go, you know, hey Ed, uh, I am struggling with XYZ, and I know you've worked on it. Let's sit down and chat, and not feeling like Ed's gonna you know think poorly of me. Um, you know, and a lot of that is you know, being able to work in a team environment. You know, as a consultant, I have you know 20 odd peers that are you know having similar experience with me, you know, and have you know a wide breadth of uh experience to fall back on. Versus if I was a solo IT guy for 20 years and it's just me, myself, and I forever, I got nobody to look to. I have no support, I have no community. And so, you know, having people around you that you trust, I think is paramount to being able to you know help combat combat this.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

Yeah, Ken, I'm really curious what you have to say, Ken, because I wonder if that's gonna align with my thinking at all from our backgrounds that we share.

SPEAKER_04 17:43

Well, yeah, maybe maybe so. Um the experience I had, and one of the reasons why I actually shifted careers was very much for the reasons Derek was saying, it all revolved really around communication and support. Um, where I had been previously, there, you know, were communication breakdowns and holes in supports. Uh, you know, granted, if you people were stretched pretty thin, but the case that was the case. And the accountability from you know different levels wasn't very consistent. Um, so I oftentimes got challenged but not empowered, if that makes sense. Um so just really you know, told what I should be doing better um or what I could be doing differently without you know actionable, uh genuine, like useful feedback or support, being like I and I can help you, you know, and I can help you, or and I know someone that can help you. Um things like that. And it it really that one of the reasons why I love Iuvo specifically so much, and you know, not a plug for IUVO, but maybe uh is just because we you know we high I feel everybody that we work with here at this company is all on the same page as far as if you don't know something or if you need help, ask. And everybody has been willing to do that. And I think that to me is like paramount. It's like almost like we've normalized being like not knowing something or like being out, not having the skill set particularly. Like I've noticed, like Derek, you're a very high-level technician. Yeah, uh, and I've noticed, you know, times you're like, I don't know how to do this. Does anybody else know how? And then other people like, no, I don't know. Let's work on it together. Like there's just so much of a collaborative, supportive culture here that I think if it were everywhere, uh, it would really normalize imposter syndrome and the way that people feel and the way that people are hesitant to take risks or learn um because they don't have that support network to fall back on.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

I think that's a lot of stigma in asking for help, you know. And same thing, same thing could be said for um, you know, mental health and and struggling and saying, like, hey, I am feeling anxious or depressed or sad, you know. There's a lot of stigma around raising your hand being like, I need I need help, I need a little bit of assistance. And same thing with imposter syndrome, you know, it's the same type of vulnerability. It's being vulnerable. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Yeah, a hundred percent. Brian, in your role as a leader, I mean, you did it with me. I don't know if you remember the moment I'm talking about, um, if it was just so blatantly obvious on my face that I was like a deer in headlights. But, you know, what do you try to do for members of your team? You've had several people come to IUVO that have less traditional IT backgrounds. And so I'm sure it's come up for multiple people. How do you support team members with something like this?

SPEAKER_03 20:44

Well, you know, one thing that Derek uh said, or a word, it's the word trust, and you have to earn trust over time. And I think that uh when you have an environment where you start seeing that everyone's trusting each other, like, oh, that's kind of interesting. So maybe I could trust, start trusting people too, and and I can open myself up a little bit. Uh I don't know if you might remember this, but there's a part in there's a part of uh the orientation where I share one of my biggest mistakes, taking down a whole rack of in a data center by hitting the power button. You know, and I was like, hey, this stuff happens. It's okay to mix mess up. We're we're all human. And I try to show that you know everyone can make mistakes, and it's okay to make mistakes as long as they learn from those things. So that people, I hope that they can just go, okay, you know, I don't need to know everything. Uh so I that's I think it comes in, it's a big cultural element where if you if you walk into a place, you see people don't trust each other, uh, that is a problem. If you see that people are hoarding their knowledge or they're they feel they're they're better than others, which that's not here. Like we have, we really uh some of the smartest people here are like, wow, you are so humble, and you're and you're the the smartest person I've ever met, and you're humble. Like that's amazing, right? So I I think that is uh I think that can be modeled. And uh hopefully uh sounds like a little bit that as but we've been successfully modeled that, but uh it also goes into what Derek said too, and what uh uh all of you said is that it's not just work, it's personal life. It's things happen, life happens, yeah. Right. And so you have to realize people are human and you know, as as competent as you all are, life happens and and knowing that, okay, I'm I'm not I'm not 100% today, and that's probably okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Yeah, no, absolutely. When I think about my own thoughts on imposter syndrome and how you can support team members, I immediately think back to my classroom because every classroom has a classroom culture, and it's such a big component to starting the year off is building that culture. And it includes things like you and Derek mentioned of trust and allowing children to feel safe enough to be vulnerable. But that absolutely applies to businesses as well. You need people to feel like they have the psychological safety to be vulnerable, to make mistakes and know that it's okay. And when I think back to imposter syndrome in the classroom, students have it all the time because they have never done the task that you're asking them to do. I'm not a writer, I'm not good at math, I don't know how to write a hypothesis. And it's your job as the educator to help them work through that imposter syndrome by challenging their thoughts on that. And it's really hard to do it to yourself. So it's like I I can see how that transfers to a business where you can be asking questions to people when and challenging their beliefs about themselves. It's one of the things that um Jeff here at Ayvo did for me. We had, you know, a one-on-one meeting and he was giving me some really wonderful feedback. And it I just couldn't let it sink in. You know, it just didn't align with my beliefs about myself. And he really kind of helped me dig into that a bit and just say, like, what I'm saying, like I want you to hear what I'm saying, and I want you to like allow this to penetrate in. And I actually had goals, company, like my goals for the company around my confidence, around speaking up and not questioning myself. It's like any statement I had had a question mark on the end. And he's like, no, just say it. Don't ask, just say it, you know, and and stand on that. I think having someone in the company, like one, recognize that I was struggling with that, two, challenge me on it, and then really create a goal around my confidence to help me work on this imposter syndrome was huge for the growth that I've made here. But it required those conversations, that open communication.

SPEAKER_03 24:58

And Jess, I do remember that, you know, our event when you were just thrown into the to uh uh you know a conference, right? And we're like, okay, how's this gonna work? So it's uh it's and it's great to hear that uh support uh from Jeff. I think we've all we've all seen that with all of many people. Um I will say from the outside though, Jess, I think you uh it's glad to see you're starting to believe in yourself a little bit more because you're you know, you've did we're like she's amazing, and you're like you're like, no, not me.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

It's coming along. It's very similar to giving someone a compliment on their sweater, and then they immediately degrade it and say, Oh, this whole thing, oh this, you know, it's like just thank you. Just say thank you. So, Brian, you mentioned something, and I'm curious to get uh people's feedback on this about humility and confidence. And I think, you know, there can be this delicate line, and I think the people at Ayuvo are so humble, um, which makes it so much easier to like ask questions and talk to them. But I think there is a place for confidence, and I think you need to build your confidence in order to overcome imposter syndrome. So, how do you kind of balance confidence with being humble? Um I don't know if anyone has an immediate thought that they want to jump in on, but Derek.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

Uh so part of, you know, part of I think uh the value of building experience is developing confidence. And so, you know, in my own experience, I've had very large projects that I've never done before. You know, I think about my first, you know, multi-million dollar data center project that I had to, you know, be responsible for and lead, you know, a massive amount of responsibility. This is gonna lead the company into the next five plus years. Uh, if I don't choose the right architecture, you know, it won't be performant, you know, just tons and tons of things. And um did I know everything that I was doing? No, absolutely not. And I also had to trust my team because I had a network engineer working for me. I had other system engineers working for me. And so I had to develop and then delegate out. And if I only had a couple years of experience under my belt, I would have felt all kinds of insecurity and fear and distrust for people. Um, after having done it for a couple decades, I was more familiar with some of the pitfalls that I might hit, you know, and things like that. Now, as a consultant, I have a uh different type of environment around me. I have clients that are of all different uh um industries and experience levels, and so part of being humble is recognizing that like not all people are the same. You know, I am a psychology nerd, I have a background in psychology as well for my education. And I think you know recognizing that we are talking to people versus technology is important. And you know you cannot talk to a uh uh principal level scientist and a junior level uh HR intern the same way. And it has nothing to do with education, it's really or or rather intelligence, it's just background. You know, it's background and experience. And so you know recognizing the room that you're walking into, know your audience, know who's around you is very, very important.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

No, absolutely, and can be difficult to do. I think you do it really well, Derek. You and I have had multiple very technical conversations because I've chatted with you about like blog content and things like that, and you've never made me feel less then for my lack of technical knowledge. Um, so I think that's something that you really excel at. And do you have any thoughts on how you balance building your confidence and being someone that is confident, but also maintaining, you know, being a humble person?

SPEAKER_04 28:49

Sure. Yeah, I I can I'll just use Ayuvo again as an example uh for most recent experience. The people that look we have we give out kudos for um you know adhering or you know, like just as a recognition to our fellow colleagues for their exemplary work. Um, and you know, these one of them that my personal favorite is humility. Um, and I like it so much because I can put it on every single kudos I give because everybody just expresses that general level of humility over or just overall, everyone's very humble. Um, and I do think that that comes from the the leadership team, like the and here specifically at Aivo, but I think in general from the top down, like setting the example of it of being a humble, like just having humility, setting that example, showing that everyone it's okay, like it's safe to feel non-confident and unlike you know not feel confident and maybe lessen that fear of failure for them so that that then translates into more confidence. So it's kind of it's it's a it's an interesting cycle that I think really is the catalyst is the leadership. Like who who here is setting the example, here's giving everybody the the confidence and the safety and the you know, just the good vibes, the good feeling to do these things. Right. And then that I mean, when you do something like that, at least for us, I found your our first reaction isn't, oh, look how awesome I am for doing this. It's gratitude and it's humility. I mean, like, thank you so much. I couldn't have done this without this person. I couldn't have done this without your help or your guidance. Um, and maybe you could have, but maybe they helped and you still feel that way. I feel like everybody here does that. And I think that in itself kind of runs the confidence engine for a lot of us.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

Yeah, no, absolutely. Brian, do you have any thoughts or opinions on how to kind of navigate that?

SPEAKER_03 30:56

Sure. I think, well, one of the one of the things that I think a characteristic of people in this company is, and even we describe Ken and that in the opening, is a lifelong learner having a growth mindset. So if you have everyone has that mindset, says, well, I know a lot, but I don't know everything. And and even if a junior person comes along and they just they're fresh out of, you know, they haven't done a lot of IT, they have something to add. They they have it, they have a skill set, or even if it's not a technical thing, it might be a customer service skill that like, wow, this is you really know how to talk to these customers to to calm them down, or it could be a mint number number of things. And so in any successful organization, uh you find nobody does anything alone. Right. And you know, certain people get propped up, Steve Jobs or or whatever, like he's brilliant, whatever. But if you look at the essence of it, everyone has uh empowers each other uh to do to do great things. So I think that's we've so to be to be honest, we have humility as core value, and we we added that actually because we had somebody who did not uh exemplify that. And it was a problem. It became a cultural problem. And we said, how are we going to solve this going forward? Let's just make sure that the people that we we hire seem to represent a level of humility and and we can use our core values to kind of shape that a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Yeah. When I think about people that may be listening that are currently experiencing imposter syndrome, I think about wanting to give them some advice or food for thought on mindset shifts that have maybe worked for some of us. And when I think about the mindset shifts that have worked for me to get to where I am now, um, and there's still plenty of work to be done, let's be clear. Um, but I think about truly that conversation with Jeff. And every time I feel it creeping into the point of almost this like paralyzing fear of like, oh my gosh, like what am I doing? I don't know what I'm doing. How am I going to show up at this meeting and actually have thoughts that anybody cares about? Um, I just have to keep telling myself to trust the feedback that I'm getting and believe in that. I think there's always a place for trusting your gut. And I have to separate for myself that this imposter syndrome is not my gut. This is not a point of truth that I should be listening to. I need to really lean into the feedback I'm getting and trust the feedback that I'm getting and just keep pushing forward. And then every time I do that, it's okay. And then I have to be like, and see, everything was fine. That that little voice, that imposter syndrome, was incorrect. And I need to stop listening to it because it doesn't align with reality. Um, I'm curious if you all have, you know, mindset shifts that have helped you as you've kind of navigated life with how to overcome it in the moment. Um, because it's definitely getting better for me. It's not non-existent, but it's like a flash instead of like living in it before. Um, Ken, do you have something that has worked for you or works for you? I mean, you're about to be a new dad. So maybe something that you're doing right now that's helping you kind of think about that.

SPEAKER_04 34:23

Well, I mean, if you were to open up my brain right now, it would just be a bunch of emails running around because everything's on fire. But uh I Brian, you touched, you said you said it exactly what I tell myself, and actually what Greg, who my uh my manager told me from day one and continues to tell me is that you have value, um, which is awesome. And not like, you know, oh, it's okay, buddy, like you have value, you know, somewhere. It's it's really like genuine. Um, you know, from day one, he was very much like you may not know how to do X, Y, and Z, but you have value in these areas. Like, this is why we hired you. So, like, let's explore that. Um, remember, these are your strengths. And if you if all else fails, you just remember that. Like, you have value, and this is this is what you're good at right here. And this will come, everything else will come. And that has happened. And I think that's awesome. And I would highly encourage anybody that is experiencing an imposter syndrome feeling or you know, feeling of uncertainty that yeah, you do have value, you will bring something to the table. Um, I think the ability to recognize that in people is very important too.

SPEAKER_03 35:38

You could take that. I was thinking that as you venture down this parenthood, you know, you can you and your wife can like just affirm each other and support each other, like, hey, you know, we got this, we got this, you know, and uh and if you don't you you don't know you have a network of of people that you can always call upon, whether it be family or even shoot out something to Iubo going, hey, anybody deal with crying babies 24 by seven?

SPEAKER_01 36:04

You know what do we do about colic?

SPEAKER_03 36:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:08

That's okay, honey. The next diaper will be better.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

That's right, it will be.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

And Derek, what about you? Have you had mindset shifts that have kind of helped you better navigate this? Are there kind of like go-to things that help you when it does creep up?

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Yeah. Um, when I was a kid, I was basically a perfectionist and highly anxious. So if I did something wrong, it was like, oh my god, I'm wrong. This is terrible. Yeah. And, you know, as I've gotten older and more experienced in the belt, you know, I've sort of lost the, you know, everything has to be, you know, perfect from the start. It's more um, you know, try and iterate, you know, fail fast. You know, I have worked in many software organizations under agile methodologies and you know, iterate fast, you know, fail fast, you know, experiment, try, don't be afraid. And, you know, building up sort of the confidence in myself to, you know, explore and try new things. And this goes outside of IT. You know, if you're afraid to travel, you know, why are you afraid of getting on a plane? Are you afraid of just being in a new spot? What's the worst that's gonna happen? You know, and you have to kind of just feel out what works for you and take small baby steps. Um, and you know, that could be uh learning a new technology. You know, if you're a Windows person and you're getting into Linux, you know, oh my god, I don't know a whole new operating system. How am I gonna figure this out? You know, just dive in, you know, start easy, you know, uh test, experiment. Um, and so I think you know, a big thing for me has just been realizing that not everything seems as catastrophic as it's going to be. You know, speaking about parenthood, you know, my kid is 12 now. There have been plenty of mistakes made along the way, we've had plenty of colds, and we all persevere, and everything is fine in the end.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

It's gonna be okay, Ken. I can't wait. See, by the time that this podcast episode airs, this little baby will be here. And I can't wait for you to get to watch this, but be a full new version of yourself when you get oh bang.

SPEAKER_04 38:15

Oh, I was so naive.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

No, you just have to keep hearing Greg's voice in your head to remind yourself of how much value you bring to this. Absolutely. Brian, anything for you that has helped you along the way, a mindset shift. I know that you had that fake it till you make it, you know, slogan.

SPEAKER_03 38:38

Yeah. That would well, that's how Jeff and I started the company is fake it till you make it. You know, and uh, you know, being kind of the primary salesperson, I'm going into meeting people all the time and say, Can you help me? Like, oh yeah, we can help you. And like, can we look at look at each other? I think we can do it, you know. Like, so and you gotta realize that so that's that's a mindset we've had, and it's it's been successful largely. I mean, there's a there's this balance of like, I don't know if we could like, I don't, I've never seen this before, but I think we can do it. And I think the better more people you have around you, the more confidence you can get. I personally am loving these stories of hearing how Jeff mentored you and how Greg, you know, and and so it means that this is permeated into the culture, and that I'm hoping everybody's having the same experiences. And so that I I think uh so it goes down to culture again, I think, is is is living the culture, not just it's not just on a on a placard somewhere. So I think uh yeah, I we often j I often jump into the water before I know it's the temperature, that kind of thing, you know, and and and go, yeah, well, like parenthood are like, oh it's cold, geez, well, what am I gonna do next? So but I did think I just I would encourage our listeners to think about themselves in these times and think about the support network they have. And to be honest, if you don't have that support network, you gotta try to find it, or don't don't, don't subject yourself to somebody who's not gonna support you in this way. Because I think uh we focus we're we know we're having all this big kumbaya moment here, but not everybody does, right? You're listening going, gosh, this is I have this, and I continually have it because I'm always being challenged in ways or you know, or being blamed or whatever it might be. So uh there you could you can find those ways. And if you need some advice, whatever, you could get come to anybody on this podcast, we'll and we could get you some people with resources, whether you you know, we whether you're just a listener or a client or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

Absolutely. And I think that's a really important point, Brian. You know, all of us work at a UVO, so we're coming from a shared experience that plenty of other people don't have. And if you are someone that struggles with imposter syndrome and you don't have a supportive culture, you don't have teammates that you feel you can lean into, the person you're reporting to isn't supportive in that way, it can be really difficult to overcome it. And if anything, it kind of throws gasoline on that fire. And I think that those are some of the moments where you have to, you know, look internally to decide if that's the right fit for you anymore, or whether you feel comfortable having conversations to express that you need more support. Um, and either one of those is scary. Um, but I think Ken, you kind of mentioned that was part of your process of, you know, making a shift in career is not feeling like that you had that support in alignment anymore. Um, and so I do think that it's important to acknowledge that that doesn't exist for everybody and it may require some big moves to decide if where you're currently sitting is the right spot for you to continue to grow in a healthy way. It's interesting because I think about my own imposter syndrome and I report to Matt at the company, and I remember disagreeing with him on a one-on-one conversation. We were talking about something to do with marketing, and he had an opinion, and I said, I actually disagree, and here's why. And he's like, Oh, yeah. And afterwards, he's like, I just want to pause and tell you how much I loved that you just disagreed with me. I was like, What? And he thought it's like such a moment of growth for me, and he was absolutely right because I had been afraid to voice, you know, uh an opposite opinion about something because my imposter syndrome would tell me, like, who am I to have this opinion? And so even just him calling it out in that way and kind of celebrating it the way that he did, I was like, ooh, like it definitely like helped chip away at that imposter syndrome for me, just to have a manager that would say something like that and be so supportive of like, I want to hear all your thoughts, whether they agree with me or not. I want you to speak them because to your point, Ken, you bring value. And so we we want to be in a company where we feel comfortable to be able to share those things. Um, we're coming up to time, but I do have a few more questions I want to try to squeeze in here. Um, what is something you wish someone had told you earlier in your career? And if you need a second to sit with that, feel free to sit with that for a second. But is there something that someone could have said to you earlier on in your career that could have either helped expedite the process of getting a hold of imposter syndrome or just made things a little bit easier? Ken, you're nodding. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_02 43:38

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:44

Uh I I think that if I had been told that uh it's okay to mess up, it's okay to fail, um, and that failure is the greatest teacher, uh, which I do believe. Um If I'd been told that earlier, I feel that, you know, the confidence, at least the baseline confidence, baseline imposter syndrome would have been a little bit more inverse for sure. So I would encourage anybody like you know, like that's listening. It's okay to mess up, and that's how that is how you learn the best. Like those the failures will teach you um, you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

Derek, what about you?

SPEAKER_01 44:25

I learned early on in my career uh of failures being a good teacher. You know, I I made and learned from my mistakes. Um you know, I think I learned early on that uh people were really important, uh, and it is uh one of the hardest things in my career to figure out how to do. You know, I I entered my career thinking all about technology and learning new skills and stuff, and it wasn't until my first management role that I really got a solid understanding of how much of technology is also psychological. You know, it's dealing with customers, it's dealing with peers, dealing with vendors and support staff. Um, it's frankly dealing with software engineers that write code. You know, if I'm struggling with an application and trying to understand like why somebody wrote something a certain way, or you know, understanding the quality of an organization, you know, there's many enterprise organizations that have gone down over the years and they have you know done poor things to our customers and understanding that like not everybody is going to remain a top player forever. Um, I I had a lot of VMware experience you know early on, and now I don't necessarily recommend VMware to my customers because over the years VMware has changed a lot and now they are they are broadcome. Um, I think uh you know, to Ken's point, you know, failure is a good learning tool and uh you know nothing is forever, things can always be fixed, you know, and so you know lose losing fear is an important thing. I think fear is a big limiter to people.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

I think if I could have received the message that I got from that conversation with Jeff way earlier in my career, I'm talking pre-IUVO, um, I may have left teaching even sooner. Um, I think that the fear of not being good enough to try something new or the fear of failure was like really paralyzing for me. And so my biggest thing, my biggest takeaway from that conversation, and what I would hope people would try to apply for themselves that they're struggling with this is just questioning yourself. When the imposter syndrome creeps in, just asking yourself, like, is this true? You know, is this does this align with the feedback that I get from my coworkers, from my manager, from other people in my life? And if it doesn't, then you have to just be honest with yourself that that is not true and try to push past it and see it for what it is, which is just this like this accumulation of fear that is creating this voice in your head that is keeping you from really amazing opportunities that you might really excel at if you're willing to try.

SPEAKER_03 47:06

There are so many people out there that are willing to mentor you. All you have to do is ask. So, you know, I've if you as you go this road and go, uh, it doesn't matter what topic, if you know, people love to more people love to help you than you know, right? It could be in your job, it could be a peer, because it could be somebody that you run into at a at a social event. And I think that a lot of us are all afraid to ask for help because it shows weakness. And so you just try to tough it out and you know, and whatever it might be. And sometimes that's good. You could tough things out and you you build up some grit. But you know, at some point you get you like I could have quit banging my head on the on the desk for a whole day if I would have just said, Hey, I need some help. And doesn't matter what level you're at. Uh I'll tell you what's challenging for me as as a CEO is that I I don't often reach out to the rest of you as much as I should. I uh I learn from you and I ask questions, but I I should do that more uh because I uh and so I so I think we could all learn from that. I think it's uh I wish I would have followed that advice that I I'm giving right now earlier.

SPEAKER_00 48:22

I think that's great, Ryan. Um, and I think that was a really good point to end on, too, is just this idea that if you are not ready for like a career shift and these bigger things that we've talked about, just reaching out to find a mentor can go a long way to kind of help you navigate the best next steps for you. And there are websites out there that can help you find a mentor for anything. So it doesn't have to be that you're reaching out to someone that you know asking for them to be a mentor. Um, it can be a stranger that is really good at what they do, whether it's a job you're curious about or just more of like a life coach type thing. Um, there are people out there, like you said, Brian, that would be more than happy to help you along your journey. Before I ask my final question, any closing thoughts that people would like to say?

SPEAKER_01 49:15

Be brave. Just go for it.

SPEAKER_00 49:18

Absolutely, Derek.

SPEAKER_04 49:21

Ask questions.

SPEAKER_00 49:23

Ask a question. Oh, ask questions.

SPEAKER_04 49:26

Yeah, ask questions.

SPEAKER_00 49:27

Definitely don't be afraid of a question.

SPEAKER_01 49:29

Yeah, there's no such thing as a wrong question. It's only the ones who don't ask the wrong ones. That's great.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

Yeah, and if the person you asked gives you a different vibe than what you just did, they're they're not worth your time, in my opinion. So if you ask a question and you're made to feel less than for asking it, then take that for what it is. Yeah, don't let that be the door uh that closes for you for sure. No, those are great. So we like to ask all of the guests on the podcast when they're on for the first time for a fun fact about them that not that may surprise people. So if you need to think about it for a second, feel free. But a fun fact about you that may surprise people.

SPEAKER_01 50:14

I am a people and psychology nerd, and I'm going through a genealogy project with my family, just organizing. I have six generations worth of stuff to collect and tons of photos, and so that's my like personal pet project that I I nerd out about.

SPEAKER_02 50:31

That is so cool.

SPEAKER_03 50:33

Are you are you sorry, are you related to anybody famous? Like you go back six generations and George George Washington or something, you know?

SPEAKER_01 50:40

No, we were we were just broke Irish immigrants.

SPEAKER_04 50:44

Like most of us, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:47

I saved I saved a man from drowning when I was in fifth grade.

SPEAKER_02 50:53

No way.

SPEAKER_04 50:54

Yeah, so there we go.

SPEAKER_02 50:56

That's great.

SPEAKER_04 50:57

He was an older gentleman and um he was very confused, but he was drowning. And when we got him out of the water, he immediately told my mom that I tried to drown him.

SPEAKER_00 51:09

Oh yeah. Oh well, it's all in perspective, right?

SPEAKER_04 51:13

Yeah, she she she saw and she knew. She was just like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

So thank goodness, you had a witness.

SPEAKER_04 51:20

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 51:23

Well, Ken, I'm not surprised that you would have saved a life at some point. And also not surprised that that's how your story would unfold.

SPEAKER_02 51:31

Yeah, that's how I would have been.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

Um, thank you both so much for not only being willing to come onto the podcast, um, but for being willing to be so vulnerable and open. Um, it's been great to talk to all of you in this way, even though I've talked to you both offline about these topics. It's really cool to get to share this with a larger audience. Um, but this brings us to the end of the episode of Edge of Excellence. Imposter syndrome is real and it's common. If there's one lesson to take away, it's this. You don't need to eliminate imposter feelings to succeed. You just need the right support, the right culture, and the confidence to keep moving forward. And as Ken and Derek said, ask questions. If you'd like to learn more about how Iuvo uses transformative IT consulting to help people grow, thrive, and lead boldly, visit iuvotech.com. You'll also find this episode and all of our past conversations there.

SPEAKER_03 52:32

Yeah, Derek and Ken, it was such a uh pleasure talking to you. And I agree with with Jess, like being vulnerable. And I think what you've had shared with us is is in the audience, it's going to be very valuable to them. I think we'd I would be surprised if if people don't have imposter syndrome. And I think that there's some really great strategies and just discussions around this. So thanks, thanks everyone here for listening. And until next time, keep growing, keep learning, and keep stepping into excellence, even when your imposter voice tries to argue otherwise.

SPEAKER_00 53:03

Thank you for tuning in to the Edge of Excellence. We hope today's insights empower you to shape your future and rise to your full potential. Let's continue to grow, innovate, and lead, pushing the boundaries of excellence.