The Social Dialogue

The OG Chat GPT, with guest Lisi Metzger

• Shane & Jenna • Season 2 • Episode 16

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0:00 | 39:18

Shane and Jenna are joined by social media strategist and L Studio Media founder Lisi Metzger for a conversation that feels like catching up with an old friend… if that friend also happens to be a walking brainstorm machine.

From the moment the episode starts, things go off the rails in the best way possible as Shane and Jenna battle over one very important question before Jenna’s move to New York City: should she hire a Task Rabbit to assemble her furniture, or is building it yourself a rite of passage? The debate quickly turns into a hilarious generational standoff about independence, convenience, and surviving IKEA-level stress in a tiny NYC apartment.

But underneath the laughs is a fascinating conversation about creativity, entrepreneurship, social media, and how Lisi built her business, L Studio Media. Lisi shares her unconventional path from blogging in the early days of the internet to becoming a sought-after social media strategist helping brands find their “it factor” online.

Jenna officially crowns Lisi “The OG Chat GPT” after Shane describes how she’s the person you call when you need ideas, recommendations, strategy, or instant creative problem-solving. Long before AI existed, Lisi was already the human version of it — generating content ideas, marketing angles, and big-picture strategy on demand.

The conversation also dives into:

  •  How social media marketing has evolved over the years 
  •  Why short-form video is still dominating Instagram 
  •  The pressure creators feel to constantly adapt to platform changes 
  •  The difference between followers and real engagement 
  •  Why saves, shares, and DMs matter more than follower counts 
  •  The changing behavior of Gen Z users online 
  •  Building a business during the pandemic 
  •  Why authenticity still matters on social media 

It’s a funny, insightful, and very real conversation about creativity, career pivots, motherhood, entrepreneurship, and surviving social media in 2026.

Keywords: social media strategy, Instagram trends, Gen Z, Gen X, NYC move, Task Rabbit, entrepreneurship, women in business, content creation, creator economy, social media marketing, podcast, marketing strategy, small business, video content, influencer marketing, L Studio Media, The Social Dialogue Podcast.

Connect with and follow Lisi at https://www.instagram.com/lstudiomedia/ and https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisi-metzger-82aa613/ 


Looking to up your social media marketing efforts? Reach out to Big Voice Social at bigvoicesocial.com 

Need help with your company's social media? Reach out at bigvoicesocial.com. 

SPEAKER_01

So Jenna, Lacy, Lacy, Jenna, now you know each other. I got my mom was like, Jenna, Lacy really wants to meet you. And I was like, okay, well, with what time? I have this and I have this and I have this. She goes, Jenna, if you could find time to work out, you could get on the phone with Lacy.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I don't want to keep you from a workout. I know how important. No, you're not. You're not. You're not.

SPEAKER_00

We're sandwiching in between two meetings. She got a text this morning from her internship that she had a meeting in 10 minutes. So she got on that. Now she's on this, and then she has another meeting. So they're keeping it.

SPEAKER_03

They expect you to be free for 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. That's how I roll.

SPEAKER_03

Okay. I mean, I feel like that's your generation. So I guess unemployed.

SPEAKER_01

I don't have social media yet. We couldn't.

SPEAKER_03

You haven't checked social media.

SPEAKER_00

Don't check social media. Um, yeah. All right, exactly.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, this is how I roll. They just they they slap me and they're like, get on the call, and I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_00

Welcome to the Social Dialogue Podcast. We're a mother-daughter team, both working in the world of social media management.

SPEAKER_01

Join us as we share our different perspectives on life today, including trends, fashion, friendships, and career, and how social media impacts it all. Together, we bring two different perspectives to one conversation.

SPEAKER_00

I'm Shane and I'm Jenna. And we're excited to bring you this new episode of the Social Dialogue Podcast.

SPEAKER_03

What's your what's your internship? Remind me.

SPEAKER_01

I work for a company and they put on events for people who work at retail D2C companies, but like the high-up people, like directors, VP, CEOs.

SPEAKER_00

Like she met the chief marketing officer of Ulta at last year's conference, and she met the CEO of Viore. So she's met like some big people. Oh, this is amazing. You're like, we need one of them to hire her full time.

SPEAKER_03

Right. But you're like growing a Rolodex, which I feel like is so. I mean, who who even has a Rolodex anymore? Like, does she even know what that word is? No.

SPEAKER_01

Do you know what a Rolodex is? Oh. Is that a Rosume? That's really funny.

SPEAKER_03

Do you think we should all we should probably be giving our kids Rolodexes? They would like the physical moving of the paper in there, right? Like the cards you pull out the card.

SPEAKER_00

I loved, like when I was in my first job and I had my Rolodex, and then like I got so many contacts I needed a bigger one. Like that was such a big milestone. It was so much fun. So, Jenna, a Rolodex is like you take the business cards, like you collect business cards from people, like physical ones, and then it's like a thing you put them in and they're alphabetized. So you'll be like, I have to call, you know, who like in the Double Wars Prada, when she has to call Joel J and Gabbada, she has to look up the thing. So she looks up in the business card Rolodex to find their phone number.

SPEAKER_01

That's what the contacts is for.

SPEAKER_00

Well, this was pre-context.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. But I want to say for someone with my kind of a brain, I feel like having a physical Rolodex would make me think of people differently. Like when I have my contacts in my phone, I think I have 10,000 people in there. Like I don't even know where to look for most of the time. But like if I had it categorized, like these are the people that I met in my job here, these people, it's kind of like you'd you'd like flip through your correspondences. And maybe keeping in touch with people will be easier for the purpose of her getting a job later on, you know.

SPEAKER_00

Like I remember going to like trade shows and collecting the business cards and then writing on the back. Like we talked about blah, blah, blah. So then I could follow up. It was so nice to meet you. I enjoyed our conversation about whatever. And I feel like now I do that. I bring the business cards back from something, and then I go on LinkedIn, I connect with them, and I do it again. And I'm like, it's so nice to meet you. I like that we talked about whatever. Yeah. Because it's just more personal, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So and LinkedIn is such a great place for that, especially since they're like getting reminders of you every time you like or comment something. You know, it's kind of like ding ding ding without having to actually ping them for you know, whatever reason.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Exactly. So I feel like we're already into this conversation, which is that's how Lisi and I roll, just so you know. So um, I'm gonna introduce you, Lisi, to our audience. But Jenna, you need to know, as you know, I meet everybody through Dear Found Her. Lisi was one of the first people I met, and this is actually a funny story. And we were just featured on Nina's podcast, right? Wasn't it Nina's? Yeah, we're famous. Yeah. She and Lindsay were talk talking, she had Lindsay on as a guest and they were talking about us. And and she said our names because she knows we don't mind sharing the story. So we were in Marketing Made Simple and there were like 12 to 15 women in there, all in different industries, except we're in the same industry. We're both outsourced social media marketers. Yeah, we came to learn that we do it differently. We do different parts of it that we excel in, but we can both do the others, but we do our own better. So we were a little hesitant to like speak up or, you know, like it was competitive. And then at one point we were like, we should talk. And then we did, and we found out like Lisi really excels in big picture strategy thinking. The other thing that Lisi does is you can say to her, I'm working for this company, I need 15 ideas to throw out for content that should be like, oh, that's so easy, and like 15 amazing ideas, just like Shane, this was before Chat GPT rolled out.

SPEAKER_03

Like I right, right. So I chatted.

SPEAKER_01

She was Chat GPT before Chat GPT. So we got to know each other. Yeah, she is. She's back there answering all of our questions. We should title the episode the new the the O'Connor.

SPEAKER_03

That's a good emoji.

SPEAKER_01

I love it.

SPEAKER_03

And it's not just for social media. I have doctor recommendations, I have places to go when you're in, you know, Arizona. Like I have all this knowledge that just sits there and just it's waiting to be tapped.

SPEAKER_00

Right, right. So we became fast friends, and now it's the story that Lindsay tells. There's room for everybody in Marketing Made Simple, but that's because of us. And we we proved it pretty quickly. And then we, you know, we also like bounced ideas about how we run our business and the back end of that. And we've been able to share things like that all the way through. So Lisa, I'm so glad you're here. And I'm so glad you get to meet my Nena. I'm so happy. Yay. All right, so for those who don't know Lisi Metzgar, I'm gonna introduce every I'm gonna introduce you to everybody. So Lisi Metzger is the founder of L Studio Media, a social media marketing agency specializing in helping small business owners find their it factor and then building content around it. Part strategist, part enthusiastic, creative partner. I love that. Lisey brings more than five years of experience helping entrepreneurs show up on social media in a way that's strategic, authentic, and actually gets results. Based on Long Island, with literally the world's best accent, Lissie's greatest priority outside of work is her family, her husband and two boys, one in middle and one in high school. When she's not with them, you'll find her walking outdoors, listening to podcasts, stopping to admire the flowers, getting lost in a good book, traveling, visiting art, or catching up with friends. And she shares a lot when she visits art museums and then gives you sort of a take on what she sees there in the colors and the form. And it's really cool. I love what you do when you go to the art museum. So Lisa Metzger, welcome to the social dialogue. We're so glad you're here.

SPEAKER_03

I am so excited to be here. I haven't been on a podcast. I used to really look to be on podcasts a few years ago and I had a lot of fun on them. And then I just haven't been on one in a long time. And I have a lot of fun doing these things. So I'm very happy to be here with you too. Especially like your vibe together is just, you know, it's just really fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You should have seen us last night because Jenna just got home from college on Wednesday night, and my husband was traveling, and he got home from a trip last night, and he walked in, and there's a dog on the bed, and Jenna and I both under the covers watching Friends, and he's like, Are you are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_03

That's the best. That's honestly the best. I'm like, I'm trying to get my my older son to like rewatch all the Seinfeld episodes, and I think like, you know, we're trying and curve. I think his personality would like, you know, all up.

SPEAKER_00

That's great. Yeah. Jenna is all in on Friends. She's watched the entire series. I I mean, who knows how many times.

SPEAKER_01

So many times. We're going to the Friends experience in New York, by the way. We'll see. If we have time, we have furniture to put together.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, because we won't she won't hire a task rabbit. We'll think. We'll we'll see. I'm thinking about it now because I'm looking at the limited time. We'll see. We'll see.

SPEAKER_01

I feel like it's a rite of passage that you have to put together your own furniture. We we live in 2026. There are people for that. They're called Task Rabbits.

SPEAKER_03

If it's from Ikea, I'm not sure. It's like a big tennis over here.

SPEAKER_00

We also she's getting the room with the flexwa. You know how they do that in New York City. Yes. Oh my god. She's getting the flex law room. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yay, Task Rabbit. We'll see. We should be sponsored by Task Rabbit. Support small business. Support us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

All right, Jenna, do you want to kick it off with our official questions so we can keep our conversation rolling?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because I have somewhere to be in a half an hour.

SPEAKER_03

I have nowhere to be ever. I'm kidding.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so my mom has already talked a little bit about this, but tell us a little bit about your history and how you got to this point in your career.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, it's a fun story. It is much like the rest of my life. It is not a straight path. So I have always been a creative and I want to say a little bit of a performer. I was making dioramas and original podcasts with my friends. We had the Dullhouse Murderers in second grade, I remember. Always make always making up stories, creating things, writing, art. And I got to high school and almost to college, and I was like, I have to pick a major. I was going to pick the most boring major, like, I don't even know what, economics. And I'd get there and I'm like, no, this is not who I am at all. So I get internships in PR, internships in marketing. I flo around New York City. I did have one finance internship, and it was like not for me. My brain like needs the excitement of idea generation. And um, after college, I went into advertising and I had some marketing jobs, but I did go and get my master's for speech pathology. At the same time, I started a blog, and blogs were not like a thing when I started, they were like very underground, nobody was reading them yet. So it was back in 2008 and 2000, early 2009, um, pre-Instagram. And I took a blog, like an address on Blogger back in the day before nobody was on anything. We were doing blogger and I was doing Tumblr. And I would go to my speech pathology master's classes before I had kids, and my creative outlet became this blog. And everybody knew me in my master's class as like blogging. Like I'd be sitting there in between classes blogging, and I was doing fashion and beauty and you know, gossip girl trends. I would translate it into like, if you like this, what Serena was wearing, go buy these boots. And here are my links because eventually reward style came out. So I was making money like that through the clicks, and I had Shop Bop advertising on my blog. Long story short, I missed I missed it so much because I had my second son in 2014. So for five solid years I was blogging. Sometimes at night my husband would be like, You're not getting paid enough money from anyone to be doing as much work for this blog as you're doing. Because I never really figured out how to monetize the people that I kind of came up with. I did get to go to fashion shows. I went to big beauty and PR kind of events that was really fun. We were taking the seats at fashion shows when editors were like, they were pissed back in the day. Like it was like a clash. And it was a very like cultural moment. Um, you know, street style was just coming out, like Bill Cunningham, like all of those people. It was just, it was so much fun back then before Instagram. And then Instagram came on the scene. I've been on there since 2011. I was sharing little bits and pieces of my life, like you know, aesthetic coffee. Then when I had my second son, I was like, you know what? I don't have time for this, and I don't really want to be distracted from him. So I stopped blogging. Um, fast forward, I'm sorry, this is like a 40-minute conversation to I'm practicing speech and it's the pandemic, and I'm working with three to five-year-old kids, and no one is sitting on Zoom for a session. So we're home. It's you know, 2020, and I'm realizing I need to be home with my kids and not trying to chase the kids back onto the screen, the nursery school kids, it just wasn't working. So I kind of stopped doing that. And I don't really remember if I've ever talked about this, but it became a very creative time in our house. We did like drawing classes online. Like I was like, me and my boys would be doing all these like renaissance y things. Like we would all be sitting down and drawing. They were very young then. Like my younger one was in kindergarten. So I got very creative again. We started drawing and painting, like I started just like looking around Instagram from the new viewpoint of not like a young mother, of like, like, I'm gonna just like see what's going on on there. And I started finding that there was like social media marketers. And I'm like, I could do this. Like, I found all these people and I started listening to podcasts. I remember one podcast of a woman who built up an agency, and it's kind of hokey, but she was like, I built it up to a six-figure business, and here's what I did. And at that time, I was like, six-figure business, like I'm not making any money from this. I never made money from my blog. I'm not gonna make money from this, I have no business mind, and push him to shove. And at a certain point, I was at my book club. We were sitting outside, spread out, because it was November of 2020. And I said to my friends there, I'm like, and they're all women, very strong, like powerful people in their own right. I'm like, guys, I think I'm gonna start a business. And they're like, Yeah, you go, girl, you do it, go ahead. Go, yeah, take take the world by, you know, just run with it. And one of my friends' husbands has a local jewelry store. And she said, You should talk to him. He needs your help. And I had not posted one thing on Instagram. I just said, I have this blogging background and I know how to make content. And I'm like, I didn't realize this was a field. And I'm like, this would have been the field I would have gone into had I just graduated from college right this minute, but it did not exist when I was in college or after and whatever. So she said, talk to him. And I took him on and I did not charge a lot at all because I didn't even really know what I was doing. And I wound up working with him for 18 months. And from there, I got another client. I got my first LinkedIn client who started with me also in November of 2020. And we just finished up. Like, we literally just finished our work together because he was like, I can't any like we have AI. It's so easy. And I said, No, you should go and use AI. But like I'm telling you, those first clients, they trusted in me. They made me realize that I actually could do this. And from then on, I just built the business. I took courses, I learned what I needed to learn. And there's been many iterations of L Studio Media. Um, so I'm just proud of the fact that I'm still doing this. It's different now. I'm not offering the same things, but yeah, I love looking back.

SPEAKER_00

That's awesome. What a great story. I mean, and I didn't know the whole speech pathology part. That's amazing. You know, we have all these different skills we bring to it. And that that's really cool. Thank you for sharing that with us. Okay, so I want to talk to both of you about trends we're seeing right now. What are the trends that you're seeing on social that are like, yes, I really like this, or yes, no, I really don't. What like what's hot right now? What do you think?

SPEAKER_03

Do you want to go first, Jenna or should I?

SPEAKER_01

I think the hauntivirus talk needs to stop. Okay. Freaking me out. I have too much going on, and I see one bad TikTok and then I see five good TikToks. Um, so that's good. Yeah. But besides that, my entire feed is graduation. So like I'm not the right person to ask about trends.

SPEAKER_00

Seeing a lot of graduation as well, not just in Diana, but like a lot of graduation, because I love all the pictures, so like a lot of graduation is coming up.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so unfortunately, the the trends, it's literally all hauntivirus and a graduation right now.

SPEAKER_03

Well, now I understand why my my older son had this like kind of big fear of it. I think he still has a fear of it. I also think that we were all traumatized by COVID because in the beginning, nobody had any idea just how long a ride we were in for. And like hearing this again, the cruise ship, the everything, the containment. It feels very familiar.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

You know, so I want to say I do not spend that much time on TikTok for the reason that I just, I feel like I just don't want to get dragged down. I know that that's like where most people, you know, Jenna's age go. Instagram for me, I still prefer it. I just like the, I just like the aesthetics. Like I like feeling like I'm at an art museum. So half my a lot of my feed actually, like if you look at my explore page, and by the way, your explore page tells you everything about the person. I have worked with people and they've shown me their Explore page, and for better or for worse, I really get to know who they are. So my Explore page is mostly interior design and art and a little social media strategy. So you could see like where my brain is. I get very inspired by seeing pretty things online, offline. It just makes me a better creator. What I'm what I am seeing a lot more just from like the people who are doing well and still continuing to like kind of hit their content out of the park, those like short reel, short reels with trending audio, the b-roll, the the me sitting here literally doing this. You do a lot of those. And and like a catchy thing, depending on the field. I do take a lot of time and I took a course and like was trained on like how to make those short reels because it's it's everything. It's the only thing that's going to get you new people unless you're doing like ads, because your your single photo things, unless they're crazy aesthetic, are not gonna go anywhere for you. But those short reels are are it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I always tell people like less than a lot of things. I never do that. You should never it's it's it takes less time than you think. It takes less time than any other post that I do. Carousel posts take me like four times as long.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, and so I I think that Instagram has become a lot more like TikTok. You do see a lot of people talking to camera. And if you have a good story to tell, you should talk to camera, a story with an arc. And I see those doing really well. An arc, uh, attention point that you're solving. Um, if you can learn how to do those short reels, those I keep seeing, they come off. They're like, you know, people use trends and go on them. But if you spend a little time on your explore page, on Instagram, and on edits, it's going to be a different explore feed. You're gonna get totally different videos. Spend 10 minutes and you'll get inspired and you'll see what's done well. They don't put things on there that haven't done well. So that's how I keep up with like what should we be doing. And I don't think that any of this is like copycatting if you're taking someone else's idea or even using their template because it's offered to you. Their template includes like the music, the the the on-screen text. Using the template, all you do is plug and play your photos, and then you have the same or video and you have the same setup for success. So I'm being more general, but uh that's a good tip though for anybody out there trying to grow.

SPEAKER_00

My my company stuff is always like in the back burner because I have so many clients I'm making content for. Plus the podcast is out there now. Like I just, you know, so I need to I need to get refocused. So thanks for struggling. I know it's a lot. What about have you seen instance? Are you guys using instance yet? No, you're the only one using instance. No, I've got a ton of people using them.

SPEAKER_01

Use that being instant on the 451 in the morning.

SPEAKER_00

No, I didn't. Yes, you did. No, it might have come then, but that's not when I sent it. I'm not up at 451 in the morning. Why do you think I was concerned about you?

SPEAKER_01

When? Or is it Shane O'Koon's shafts shared an instant at 451? Where is it? I don't know where it is.

SPEAKER_00

I was not up at 451 in the morning. I don't even know what you're showing me. I can't see it. I I didn't, I'm not up that early. Here's the thing.

SPEAKER_03

I have instants on my personal page. I don't know why they roll out in I don't know why they roll out the features on your personal page way before my regular page. Like I will I will use it ultimately much more on my work page than my personal. Yeah. And I think I actually posted accidentally a picture of my wallpaper yesterday, and I'm like, I don't even know how to get this down. Like I felt like I don't know how to get it down either.

SPEAKER_00

And I don't even know, like, once I've taken the picture, did it post? I don't, it doesn't tell you. So it's like post it at 4 301 in the morning. No, it didn't. Great. So now Instagram just likes to roll out new stuff that's like half baked, not ready. And you know, welcome to Meta. I just, I just, I don't think it like needed to be, you know, and I don't think needed this. Okay, well, let's talk about frustrations. Are you seeing what's going on with the reporting? Like, I'm losing my mind. Every month I pull reports, you know, to send the clients. Here's how we did, here's what's right. All of a sudden they just changed it. And everything is different. Everything is different. It doesn't make any sense. So I actually put it into Claude. I'm like, can you break this down for me? What is happening? Why are the numbers tanking when I can see engagements are up, content is performing. And it's like, well, engagements are now interactions, but they're not the same thing. So if you're comparing interactions to engagements before April of this year, you can't compare apples and apples. And I'm like, fuck you. Like, you're making my numbers look bad. And my numbers are actually good, but you're they're still pulling, like meta insights are still pulling the wrong thing. So I show my clients and they're like, you suck.

SPEAKER_03

I think that I do think that some of the things that they did roll out are very helpful because you know, like the expression like sign of the times. So, like a sign of the times is that no one is following anyone anymore. Absolutely. No one's following anyone. We only want to see you. One time. And if I like your content the next time, I might think about following you. I'm thinking about that account that I love now. Her name is Uh-Ha Hannah. And she sits in her car and she just like rants on a topic. She's hilarious. But I've had I had to see her, I had to see her like three or four times on my Explore page to be like, you know what? I think she's really funny and I'm gonna want to see her stuff again. So I'm gonna follow her just in case I never see her again. That's like the kind of mentality. Otherwise, I'm cleaning out shop. Like I was following 2,100 people. I lock, I let go of, I let go of 400 people in the past month because I'm like, I don't see your stuff. I no longer resonate with your content, and I don't really need to see it anymore. And I don't want my feed flooded, but I want to say the insights are a sign of the time that no one is following anyone anymore. Followers do not count.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, well they never we never even measured followers.

SPEAKER_03

And I I mean, I know people who bought followers back in the day, and like like there's a reason why they had six likes on their post and 40,000 followers. I'm like, okay, you're not like your your stuff is not riveting. Like, I'm sorry, we all know. Everyone knows, right? So, but the views, the thing is for videos, which I think is what we talk about a lot, or like what I feel like is important, carousels is a different story, but for short form video, the part that I like is the click rate, right? Yes. So the click rate is really important. So if your click rate is like 60% or above, like you really need to rethink your entire video strategy. Let's get it under, I think it, I mean, I'm not sure what a good number is, honestly, because it depends on how long your video is. But like that particular like view time, click rate, those are really important for us as people who are guiding people's content to understand and to use. Right. Because what click rate means is like how long is someone watching your video? Are they watching the first three seconds and then leaving?

SPEAKER_00

And it does break that, it does still break that down if they stay for three seconds or they stay for, you know, 30 seconds or whatever. Right.

SPEAKER_03

Um, but I do think I I feel your frustration. I don't give out, I don't do social media management much anymore. So I don't give out those metrics anymore. But I do feel like people who I'm working with should understand that if their click rate is too high, we need to pump the brakes and be like, what's wrong with your videos? Because why even put out content if people are just gonna be like, that's her again? Goodbye. And I think like that's a big, you know. Right.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and the other thing that Sari has said this, and then Claude has said this as well, is that the three things they're really optimizing are DMs, shares, and saves. So now every time we're creating content, you know, the question has to be, who are they going to send this to? Who do they want to share this with? Right. Like I'm working with a jewelry company right now, and and so I met with a client yesterday, and we're like, well, how often do you actually send jewelry to someone? Like, yeah, you might send it to your husband, but like send it to your girlfriend. So, like, we're thinking to that. So now we're like, well, let's focus on saves, let's talk about cleaning your jewelry. Here's good educational content that could be a carousel or a video showing people that they could save it. You have to tell them to save it so they can come back to it. You know, so it's like stuff like that. We're rethinking the strategy. But I mean, I have had so many clients through the years who are like, we need more followers, we need more followers. I'm like, no, you don't. No, you don't. And now finally, now it's like real. Instagram doesn't care about your followers either. I've been telling you for years.

SPEAKER_03

It's frustrating to unlearn that though.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03

I would I was gonna say to you for the jewelry company, depending on if it's fine jewelry or just like kind of costume fun jewelry.

SPEAKER_00

It's elevated everyday jewelry.

SPEAKER_03

Right. So I mean, there is there are ways that you could get people to share it. I kind of think like, you know, friends wear jewelry, they might like like I don't know. I would look good on. You're like, send this to someone, this would look good on it. Yeah, something, something fun, like I'm not sure off the top of my head, but I I don't want you to discount.

SPEAKER_00

No, no, of course not. But it's like which one is the like bigger priority and which one's the easier one? You know, the easier one that saves are the easier on that client. But then for some clients, it's the opposite, right? And then and then to focus on the DMs too, like there has to be a strategy there. So we're kind of rethinking all of our clients' strategies so that we can make sure we're we're playing into what Instagram wants. Because if you don't play the game, you lose, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Well, Jenna, do you do you find yourself like what behavior do you find yourself doing with content on the app?

SPEAKER_00

Like are you sharing with friends? She still does this. Click, click, click, click, click, click, right?

SPEAKER_01

Do a lot of sharing. I do a lot of things.

SPEAKER_00

You do share. Yeah, but I feel like I share everything I share, I share with Jenna.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. But like, no, I'm still back and forth. But yeah, sharing.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. But not liking, right? Like people a lot of times don't like things. Still like. You don't? Right.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it depends. If I want to save it and I want to see it. This is TikTok, right? Or is it Instagram?

SPEAKER_00

No, Instagram. Well Instagram also. I guess I'm talking Instagram. Probably the same on TikTok. I would like the same.

SPEAKER_01

TikTok I won't like as much because my likes go to save folder and I like to reference what I like. That makes sense. Okay. Instagram, I don't care.

SPEAKER_03

Dan, but that's that that's interesting user behavior because then you wouldn't expect to have that many likes on TikTok if other people are operating in that way. No, right.

SPEAKER_01

I'm weird and I'm the only one who operates in this way.

SPEAKER_03

Most people like my you you may not be weird. But on Instagram, I think you can see what your friends have liked, and I think that has been a deterrent for people to like things. Sometimes I will stop and think, right, like I'll stop and think what I want other people to see that I like this post. And it's also like, how many posts do I want people to see that I'm liking? It's almost like over overkill. So I'm actually stopping how much I like things sometimes. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Interesting. Wow. All right. So so back on to Instagram a little bit. So you started, I think it was earlier this year, I guess it was end of last year. You started doing your Tuesday lives. What was the impetus for that? And what kinds of people do you bring on there?

SPEAKER_03

So the impetus was, I think I missed going on podcasts like this. And I'm not afraid of going live. Like I have, so back to like my performer, like my husband's gonna laugh at me, you're a performer. I was um, I was in commercials when I was younger and I acted in plays. So like I never had I I actually did have major stage fights like on at my ballet recitals, but that was because that was I was much younger. But like acting, I never had a fear of being on camera, which is why I think this has been great Instagram-wise. I just don't, I'm not afraid. So I do a lot of video coaching now for people our age, and there's a ton of people who are totally stuck and terrified to come on video. But like, as we all know, video is the place where you're going to be connecting, building trust, like ultimately winning people's opinion of you so that they'll buy things from you. So I work with a lot of service providers who I need to get on video so that they'll have more business, right? So part of the reason why I started going live was because I was like, I'm gonna kind of dare myself to get on a consistent schedule going live and showing my clients and others that it's not scary to come live. And also, you can't get to know somebody that well on short form video or even those talk-to-camera videos. They're they're like my talk-to-camera videos, they're me talking, but like when you listen to somebody in a loose conversation, you can be like, oh, she's my person. I'm gonna work with her, but not really from like any other type of video. So many different reasons. I wanted to inspire others to come live and not be afraid to go live and building the trust for me. I wanted people to see me in loose conversation, even though I let others do the talking. I'm more of like an interviewer in these. I just wanted to kind of like one other thing is like I didn't, I don't actually think very strategically for my own account a lot of times. But when you go live and each person puts it on their feed, you're obviously sharing a piece of content together so that my audience will see them and they will, you know, vice versa. So it really is a nice way to borrow somebody else's audience and like so. Here's what I started doing. So I first um went live because it was my birthday, and it was Dara Astman's birthday also. So we share a birthday January 6th. And I was like, Do you want to go live with me? I don't think you've if you've never gone live, it would be a great time to go live. We can do our New Year's resolutions, our birthday resolutions, and she jumped on and was so excited. And then it dawned to me, I'm like, I want to find other small business owners who have never gone live before and let them see how easy it is because I send you a script before, like you can approve the script, the questions, you can fill in your answers, you can I teach you how to do the setup. And this is like for free. I'm just like, I just want you to come on and like do this with me so that you can go live again after and see that it's no big deal. It's like, let's ride a bike. Like, just go ride the bike, you know. Um, so I think I've done nine or ten of them. I I did it with, I went, I did one with Lindsay, I did one with um a jewelry designer, I did one with Rana, um, you know, workflow optimizer. I did I've done a bunch so far, but then I got sick. So I took a break and I went to Spain for a week. And now I'm picking up. I have scheduled one next week and then the week after. So I'm just so excited about these. They're they're really fun. They're like, they're kind of like mini podcasts. It's like me dipping my toe in the water to see if I would do a podcast. And I tend to talk a lot. So, and like do these like circles in my conversation. So, me being the interviewer with a script is so good because I stay on topic and like maybe we do a little bit of chit chat, but it's like really like 30 to 40 minutes of like someone actually talking about themselves without me interrupting and like I give them a platform.

SPEAKER_00

I think they're really fun, especially when I know the other person. Like, that's really fun to see both on. So I think it's been really fun. But even the people I don't know, I you know, I'm learning something new about someone else.

SPEAKER_03

So yeah, and they they they always give me um several gems. So I usually sum up the gems in a post after. So I'll do like a video of those gems, and everyone's coming to me from all different fields, and um it's just like a fun way to spend an hour with someone.

SPEAKER_00

That's fun. Much like this, much like this. So we have just a couple more minutes. I know Jenna has a meeting in like four minutes, but she has one really important question to ask you.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so I'll be moving to New York, I'll be there in a week with a task rabbit. By this time next week, she will be a New York City resident. With a task rabbit. My god, but the task rabbit. Give me all the racks you have in the next 30 seconds. This is Randall, rapid fire. Well, give her an area of town. Yeah. I'm living in Murray Hill.

SPEAKER_03

So, okay, so my favorite area is the meat packing district and West Village. Okay. So what I like to do, so my son took an architecture class two summers in a row at NYU. So every time he went, and it was a full day. So I'd drive him in, drop him off, park my car, and I would walk up from NYU along the West Village, up to the High Line, and all the way up to, you know, what is it called? The area in the 30s up on the High Line. So that is my favorite part of the city. You can hit up the like all the shopping there. You can do tons of different kinds of restaurants, brunches, everything you want. But it's just like visually so stunning. And there's cobblestone streets in the meat packing district. And I used to sit in the Gansavort hotel and like order myself a little brunch with my computer and just like get to work. It's also I love sitting in a place where like I can people watch and just, you know, it's really fun. But so you and you could also see the Whitney Museum. And I'm trying to think the the the place that has, I can't even think my brain on like literally the the big building. This is like a lightning round. The the big building with all the food.

SPEAKER_01

So good at lightning rounds.

SPEAKER_03

So, but I want to say if you do want to cultivate uh an interest in art, I would say to go and spend time just walking around the Met, walk around the Guggenheim, hit up any of the galleries that are open. It is just there's just something about and MoMA. You have like those are my three favorites, depending on what the Guggenheim has in it. There's just something that happens to you and and wander around Central Park. Don't have an agenda, just wander. I lived on the Upper East Side for many years. I went to college on the Upper West Side, so I did the the west side of the park then, and we used to like lay out and just do nothing like in the upper west side, like go to the Shakespeare Theater, go to Strawberry Fields, like just do all of that. On the east side, you can run around the reservoir, the Jackie O'Nassis reservoir. There's nothing like it. There's nothing like it in the world. It is just, it is beautiful. There's flowers everywhere. It's just, I don't know. If I could do it all over again, I would. We I loved it. I loved it. I I was in, you know, up and down all over. Don't forget the Jewish Museum. Don't forget the Holocaust Museum all the way downtown. Like there's just there's just so many things. Goodbye.

SPEAKER_01

That's awesome. I love it.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you so much. Maybe one day you guys will do coffee one day when you're in the city. Yeah. Look her up.

SPEAKER_03

I would love to after the task rabbit finishes.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. For the love of God. All right, Jenna, you have to go. Thank you so much. Make sure it's uploads before you leave.

SPEAKER_01

I will. How do I? Yeah. I just leave. Okay, bye. Bye, Jenna.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00

Lisi, this was so much fun. Thank you for doing this.

SPEAKER_03

So much fun. I'm so glad that we did this.

SPEAKER_00

I'm so glad that we did it. I'm so glad you're feeling better because we did reschedule when you were so ill. I'm glad that you're better. Yes. And um, glad you had a great trip to Spain. I mean, you should note Jenna's time right now is crazy. And I was like, this one you're not missing. You have to be on to me with the case. So I'm so glad that we met her.

SPEAKER_03

We also I know, and I think we also had scheduled when you first launched and something else happened. So I was like, we need to Yeah. Right, right. So I'm glad that we need to do this.

SPEAKER_00

I'm glad we finally got to meet her. And if you're in the city, look her up. She will have coffee with anybody.

SPEAKER_03

Oh my God, I would love to. And I'll I'll actually send her specific recommendations of like actual places to go. Okay. But she's gonna have the best time. Like she I can see it. She has that energy running through her, that young, you know, let me see everything I possibly can.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and she because what last week when we were at graduation, you know, we saw all these girls that she's graduating with, and I saw their moms, and I'm like, oh, what's yours doing next year? She's gonna come home and and figure it out what's next. And that's very normal today. And Jenna's like, I can't come home. I just can't. I have to go. And and we support that. So and we are supporting it. But I'm glad that she c she's got something to get her by while she looks for the full-time thing. And who knows what's next. But it's very exciting.

SPEAKER_03

Listen, there's there's always social media marketing that she can just do in the meantime just to pay her rent.

SPEAKER_00

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_03

So she doesn't have to leave New York City, she can have some clients.

SPEAKER_00

Well, she has a 16-month lease, so she can't leave New York City.

SPEAKER_03

No, she shouldn't. She should she should spend her time there.

SPEAKER_00

She should, absolutely. And you know, this is this has been the dream. Go live in New York, be young and single and live in New York. She has a boyfriend because he's in Chicago. So she's gonna live her life and continue to grow her friends and her community. And I'm so proud of her. So thank you. Thank you for making this happen today.

SPEAKER_03

It's amazing. I love seeing you two together. You have such a good energy. And I'm so excited to be on this podcast. And like, yes, good.

SPEAKER_00

Thanks for joining us on the Social Dialogue Podcast. If you like today's conversation, be sure to leave us a five star rating and a review and share it with a friend.

SPEAKER_01

Keep the dialogue going with us on social. Find us on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and YouTube. I'm Shane and I'm Jenna. Thanks for listening.