The Social Dialogue

Ordinary to Extraordinary, with guest Pattie Dale Tye

• Shane & Jenna • Season 1 • Episode 18

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What does it really take to reach the top? According to Pattie Dale Tye, you do not need an Ivy League degree, an MBA, or a perfect pedigree. You need to know your aptitudes and then have the courage to follow them.

In this episode, Shane sits down with Pattie Dale Tye, Chief Operating Officer of Stoll Keenan Ogden, Forbes bestselling author, and national speaker with more than three decades of C-suite leadership at companies like AT&T and Humana. Pattie Dale shares the philosophy behind her book, Ordinary to Extraordinary, and offers honest, practical guidance for anyone starting out, re-entering the workforce, or stepping into the next stage of their career.

From the aptitude testing that changed her own path, to why she believes you should treat your career as a 90,000-hour journey rather than a series of nine-to-five days, Pattie Dale makes the case for work-life integration, leading from behind, and finding your personal "glue" that holds relationships together. She also delivers candid, sometimes surprising advice for Gen Z navigating a tough job market, including why she says do not rush back to school.

In this episode:

  • Why pedigree and an MBA are not requirements for success
  • How aptitude testing can guide smarter decisions at 17 or 18 (and beyond)
  • The 90,000-hour mindset and why your career is a long game
  • Work-life integration over work-life balance, and the value of a best friend at work
  • Helping Gen Z build confidence and connection in a screen-first workplace
  • Leading from behind: why the best leaders serve the people they lead
  • "Find your glue": Pattie Dale's secret to authentic, lasting relationships
  • Using LinkedIn to build your brand and grow your network
  • Real talk for new grads: experience, nonprofits, trades, and why not to keep going back to school

Resources and links:

  • Pattie Dale's book, Ordinary to Extraordinary, available on Amazon and at Carmichael's Bookstore and Barnes & Noble
  • Website: PattieDaleTye.com
  • Connect with Pattie Dale on LinkedIn
  • Special thanks to Carly Mason Greer for the introduction

Looking to up your social media marketing efforts? Reach out to Big Voice Social at bigvoicesocial.com 

Need help with your company's social media? Reach out at bigvoicesocial.com. 

SPEAKER_02

You're on a 90,000-hour journey when you step on the career road. Isn't that amazing, Shane? 90,000 hours. So it is a long game, and you need to treat it as a long game, not just a series of eight-hour days. If you have a passion for what you are doing, you will work it into your life, and your life will work into it, and you will find space for both things.

SPEAKER_01

Welcome to the Social Dialogue Podcast. We're a mother-daughter team, both working in the world of social media management.

SPEAKER_00

Join us as we share our different perspectives on life today, including trends, fashion, friendships, and career, and how social media impacts it all. Together, we bring two different perspectives to one conversation. I'm Shane and I'm Jenna. And we're excited to bring you this new episode of the Social Dialogue Podcast.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so I am very excited to welcome today's guest, Patty Dale Ty. Let me introduce you a little bit to our audience, Patty Dale, and then we're gonna get into our conversation. I'm so excited that you're here, and it's so lovely to meet you. So for everyone who does not know Patty Dale Ty, she is the chief operating officer for Stoll Keenan Ogden, a Kentucky and Indiana based law firm, a best-selling Forbes author, and a national speaker. Patty Dale is a C-suite veteran with over 30 years of experience leading companies to new heights and course correcting businesses in need. Patty Dale has an extensive track record of success with some of the most recognized brands in the world. She spent more than a decade with AT ⁇ T, was instrumental in turning around Humana's multi-billion dollar large business commercial segment, and championed Humana's first ever population health work, which resulted in not only regulatory changes within CMS, but placed Humana on Fortune magazine's 50 companies changing the world. That's quite an honor. In June 2024, Forbes published Patty Dale's first book, Ordinary to Extraordinary, written for people just starting out, those re-entering the workforce after a time away, or anyone entering the third stage of their career. Patty Dale's insights and expertise come from more than three decades of leading and being led. She reaches beyond traditional career advice, taking you on an authentic leadership journey through her firsthand experience, expertise, excuse me, through her firsthand expertise. Patty Dale Ty, welcome to the Social Dialogue Podcast.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you. I'm always so embarrassed when all that stuff is read about me. Oh my goodness. Only a mother can love all that. So thank you for for doing that. But it is interesting to hear somebody talk to you about you.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. And you know what I always say to my clients, you know, I work in social media and I say to them all the time, this is no time to be humble. Should be proud of these amazing accomplishments and a very long and decorated career. So I'm glad to have you.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you, Shane. And I'm so I've, as we talked before the podcast started, I just think what you and your daughter are doing is so cool. And and I've looked at some of the guests you've had, and I'm very honored to be here. So thank you, thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. And I'm I'm glad that you've looked at our guests and listened. And, you know, there's some amazing, amazing people in there. So yes. So I want to talk. I've done a little bit of research about you and done some reading about you and your experience. And I kind of want to go back to the beginning. I know that one of the things you've mentioned is that you didn't go to quote, extraordinary schools and you didn't get a master's degree, which a lot of people think to head into the industry you're in, you need that MBA. Even my husband, who had 10 years of experience as an MD, in order to get into the field he wanted to get in, he had to go get an MBA, which is really interesting. So tell me a little bit more about that. And I'm I'm curious how it might influence a young person starting out who's thinking, this is my roadmap. Your roadmap might be a little bit different than what they think. So I'd love to hear a little more about it.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely. And by the way, kudos to your husband. Thank you. DBAs are some of the smartest people I know. Indeed. So, and dedicated. And we need them. So this struck me when Forbes called me to write the book, they were interested in my story because I didn't have a pedigree. I'll just say it that way. I did not have a pedigree yet. I had made it to a very tall place in the corporate world, working for a Fortune 17 company at a very, very, very high level. And they're like, what's the secret sauce? Because this was at the same time, Shane, when the news was breaking about parents lying to get their children into top schools. And I they said, there's a message that you need to tell. And it is, you can be a pretty ordinary person and reach extraordinary heights. So let me tell you a little bit about that journey. It started with my parents, like you're a fabulous parent with having Jenna on and you all doing this amazing thing together. My parents were a little worried about me as a teenager. I was a very happy kid, but I had no interest in breaking a sweat. I was ordinary at everything. And my sister and brother were not that way. They were, they were, they were tall and moving forward in sports and academia, and I just was not. So they had my aptitudes tested. And uh your aptitudes are really key to understanding what makes you tick and be happy at the same time. They are a secret elixir to career, in my opinion, to life. I had them tested rather early. I had them tested at age 15. They actually don't completely cap out, fully reveal themselves until about age 18. But I've had mine tested three or four more times and they were exactly the same, maybe a little bit more nuanced when I, you know, did them at 25, but they were pretty much right on the same line that they were when I was 15 years old. And they, when I finally let them guide me, Shane, in my career, it was it was like I finally had all the propellers giving me all the the energy and the motion I needed to skyrocket forward. So I didn't need the MBA. I didn't need a pedigree school. And by the way, I'm a University of Florida grad and a Meredith College for Yes, so I think it's a fact. Florida grad we were meant to be together.

SPEAKER_01

And it is an extraordinary school. It is one of the new public Ivy's.

SPEAKER_02

It is, but but but I it it wasn't when I went to the city. No, me neither. But but but I it was I never mean to to to put my alma mat in a bad light. It just wasn't at that time that top-tier Northeast or West Coast school, but it certainly is now.

SPEAKER_01

It's yes, my son, my son is a freshman there, and we talk about how there's no way, no way in hell I would have gotten in today. No way either.

SPEAKER_02

Well, a Gator Nation family, I just love that. Yeah. And did y'all watch the softball games together at night? No. Or the baseball games together.

SPEAKER_01

He watched them and he was reporting them in because he's already gone for the summer. So but he was he was reporting them in. So yeah, he's a big fan, big gator fan.

SPEAKER_02

And well, so he has a pedigree. He he will always be able to claim that pedigree. But but I felt that, and Forbes felt that was an important message because there's no one track to career success. What there is a deep need to track with would be your aptitudes and what you are really good at that lights you up. You can be good at a lot of things, but if they don't track back to what you feel you can love, you know, your husband might have been told forever, you must be a doctor, you must be a doctor, you must be a doctor. But then when he got into it, he realized, I love the research part of it more. I love the scientific part of it. So he had to pull that aptitude out that had been sort of sitting there whimpering, saying, pick me, pick me, pick me, and suddenly he does, and then he's off to the races. If you don't look use your aptitudes, you will be frustrated and you won't know why. And it won't be your parent, your teacher, your spouse, your role. It will be that you have music, a musical aptitude, dying to get out, and you never dance or sing or listen to the music radio on road trip radio turned all the way up until your eye, your watch says, danger. There's too much noise in this room. Anyway, that's that's a long story, but that was my that was sort of my my code to break.

SPEAKER_01

Well, you know, it's interesting because we talk a lot about having been through the the college search piece now twice. You know, we talk about how unfortunate it is that kids at 17, 18 years old have to decide on their major. But what if they listened to what you're saying and instead did some of that aptitude testing so that kids, the decision that they're making at 17 or 18 years old is actually correct, where they're headed into some sort of field. And it still could change, but you know that these are the skills that light me up that I'm good at. I'm going to be successful in college. Whereas I think some kids are like, well, I have to go to business school. That's what I have to do. So they get into the business school, they get there, it's hard, they hate it, they don't do well, they can't get an internship, their grades are reflective. So then what? Now it's junior year and they have to figure out what to do next.

SPEAKER_02

It yeah, you've you've nailed it. It is a it's a big heavy thing to put on a 17-year-old's shoulder to declare. I was talking to some folks a couple of weeks ago, and there were not a lot of jobs in their community, in their daughter's community. And so every one of them, the friends, they were going into nursing. And you know what? You've got to have that in your DNA. That is that is compassion, connectivity on a whole different level. And so nine out of 10 of them had dropped out because they're like, this is nothing I want to do. But the money waste, the emotional waste, the thing that, you know, they hit a wall at a very tender age. And it wasn't their fault. It's just that they didn't think there might be another way to go about this thing called career.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you do have to, you do have to find what makes you happy. Or how would you ever be good at? I remember freshman year, someone told me to take this class that was called Rocks for Jocks. It was a geology course. And they're like, it's so easy. It's the easiest class in the entire University of Florida. I got a D plus in that class because I wasn't interested in Rocks. I'm also not good at studying and regurgitating into multiple choice tests. I went to a very small private high school, wouldn't do that. So it was a terrible decision for me. And if I had instead been like, well, what am I actually interested in that I could get a good grade in this first semester of college, that would have actually helped my GPA quite a bit.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. We have to look at the whole aperture, not just, not just the one factor in the aperture.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. Okay, so once people are in their career and they found what they like, you know, some people are workaholics, but some people are looking more for that. And we don't, we learned this from one of our guests from Kate Latz, that it's not work-life balance we're looking for, it's work-life integration. So we're, we're kind of living with that because I think it makes a lot more sense. But I'm seeing it, you know, even with Jenna, she is in New York with, you know, right now it's a part-time internship still. She's moving toward that full-time position, but she's working 20 hours a week in one place and then another set of hours a week in another place. And and then she's mixing in her Pilates classes and finding her way around the city and doing what she wants to do. So it's a it's a beautiful way. But one of the things that I know you've talked about is this whole nine to five work schedule and how that's actually problematic. And I'd love to hear more about that because for me, I don't have nine to five. Sometimes I'm on my computer at 5:30 in the morning because I've got a busy day. Sometimes I'm gone all day and then I'm on at 10 o'clock at night. Sometimes I'm on a conference call doing the laundry. So yes, and I work from home and I'm my own boss. So I'm very it's a benefit that I have. Not everybody has that. So I'd love to hear more about your philosophy about nine to five.

SPEAKER_02

So I love uh K Let's and I think that integration is a perfect word. So the the nine to five, two things about it. Number one, if you are waiting for five o'clock to get there for your role, you you really need to rethink what you're doing. So part of that message is you're on a 90,000-hour journey when you step on the career road. Isn't that amazing, Shane? 90,000 hours. So it is a long game and you need to treat it as a long game, not just a series of eight-hour days. So that's part of it. The second is just like you described, if you have a passion for what you are doing, you will work it into your life and your life will work into it, and you will find space for both things. I love what you talked about with your daughter. She's she's she's doing lots of work, but she's also integrating what helps her be really good at work, which is feeling good about your body, about your head, about your social connectivity, et cetera. So the message on that nine to five is really that, you know, there the predominant number of businesses are still operating in a nine to five role. So you're probably going to find yourself in that structure. But my wish for you is to make sure that it is not just simply like the road runner and whatever that cartoon character was, that you're not just clicking a time clock and saying, okay, I'm done with work at five, and now I can get on with life. You've got to integrate life in that entire measure of nine to five. Part of what your daughter, I bet, is finding is those 40, 60 hours are a lot more enjoyable if she has a best friend at work. So I encourage, especially the young ones that are just getting there, find the best friend at work. They are there. And if they're not, again, you may want to rethink where you are and what you're doing. Sometimes you just have to put in the time. And I believe that. It's just like riding a bike. Until you put in the time, that saddle is not going to feel very good. But once you put in the time, then you can begin to look at those nuanced things like having a best friend at work. The most engaged people, this is for those who lead also. The most engaged people in your workforce are going to be those that enjoy coming to work because it's a social connectivity space for them. We are a connected society and we need to have friends at work. And as an employer, as a leader, you need to make the space for people to have friends at work. That chain is also how you're integrating life into the nine to five. And a lot of times you're taking the nine to five folks that you work with and bringing them into the after five work that you or life that you love. So that's the integration to me. It's not just clicking a time card and saying, I can't wait to get out of this place at five o'clock, right? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. My first job out of college, I worked in Chicago and I worked for a company that hired in my department a lot of people who were 25 and under. We had so much fun together. I mean, we would get together every Thursday night, must see TV, friends in Seinfeld. We watched it live. You know, if you got there late, we wouldn't buzz you into the apartment because there was no way to pause it. You know, these were my friends in Chicago, and we had a blast. And that was a job that allowed me to travel a lot for work. And so we would all kind of save up our sick days and stay in San Francisco another three days. And, you know, that was such a fun period of life. I hope that she finds that. And you know, I hope they all do. It's so much fun.

SPEAKER_02

And so formative. And the worry I have, and the reason I love to talk to leaders who are leading or trying to lead the Gen Zers, is we need to understand that they come to this workspace with a whole different background. They were on the screen like you and I. And you and I are comfortable enough in our worlds. We have confidence. We have been in a lot of situations, social and otherwise. So we can be very comfortable being vulnerable in this in this environment. Well, you, you know, we can talk about a lot of things because we know when to start that conversation and when to stop it. When you're brand new in the work world and you've only had that beautiful natural environment of college friends or family or high school friends, this is very intimidating. Have to learn how to be friends at work on screen. Yeah, absolutely. And and and we need to give them a break and teach them a little bit about how to do it and let them fail once or twice and show them now, just get a dust it off, and let's let's go at that again. They need some grace right now. And but the other thing I tell them is go into the office. If you have an office, go into it. There are wonderful people there. I know our office feeds you when you come in. So there's probably some really good food and beverage there, but get the whole fabric of a relationship, not just the flat screen. While you are forming, I mean, think about how those friends at work and your traveling experience, how they formed you as someone that would be led comfortably or them would be a leader comfortably. I mean, there's a lot of growth that happens in that time frame. I love this quote or this fact. Between the ages of 25 and 32, you make some of life's most impactful decisions. Wow. Isn't that amazing? So think about what how that camaraderie, yeah, that fabric helps you make some some some decisions that are why you're sitting where you are right now today. Absolutely. How do you feel about hybrid work? Well, I go into the law firm almost five days a week. So on those cherished days when I work from home like I am today, I love them. But I do like to go into the office to say hello to people, to be able to sit in an office and have a conversation. I think hybrid is great. I wouldn't want to be 100% either way. There's studies out that show that when you work from home 100% of the time, and I know you do, so so let me have a codicle to this, but there's an effectiveness that drops off at about the third and a half day. That's true. And and and so probably naturally, Shane, you get up and leave the house and meet somebody at Heine Brothers. Yeah. Or for lunch or at the gym. That we just we're a connected society and we need to connect. So I think about three and a half days is anybody's max, and then they need to get out and and have to, you know, put on pants and and and talk to somebody.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. And I do, I do enjoy meeting with people face to face, getting out of my little corner office here in the kitchen. And yeah, I think it's really an important part of my my work day. Yes. So one of the things that you've talked about, I know, is that some people are really focused on, I want to get this title or I want that corner office. And they're kind of focused on a specific job. But you talk about what's more important is not leading the position, but leading the people. Can you talk a little bit more about what you mean by that, specifically for leaders and people who are building companies or managing companies?

SPEAKER_02

Yes. I well, first of all, a company's most precious asset are the people that work there. They will, they will make or break you. Culture eats strategy for lunch every day. You know that. So I think part of the message in that statement is about being a leader that leads from behind. I would just call it leads from behind, that makes sure that she shows up knowing that her greatest purpose is to help those she leads be their very best. And that will make her the very best she can be. So tune, especially right now, tune in to what lights up those that you lead. Are they, are they too intensely interested in a promotion? Because everybody in their 20s wants to get through it fast. I don't know what it is about your 20s, but you sure want to get through them flying, right? And and you, you, you shouldn't fly through them. This is a time for formation. This is a time to to build the muscle tone of of the work life that will take you well past any finish line you ever thought of. What I tell folks in that formative time when they're so focused on on money or position or title is if you do the right things, and right things are easy, you learned them all in kindergarten. If you do the right things, you will make by the time you're 40, you will have made more money than you ever dreamed of. So settle down. You will be in probably in a career and in a title you never even knew existed. Isn't that right, Shane? Absolutely. I mean, there are your kids are majoring in things or majored in things that we didn't even we had a block called business management. You know, now they have sliced down to the tiniest part of that. But but but relaxed, right? Not too relaxed, right? But relaxed on On the forward motion, right? You want it, but right now you're forming. You cannot get out and run a marathon on Saturday when you have not run three miles the prior Thursday, right? This is a long game. It's 90,000 hours. You are going to shoot to the moon. You just don't even know where the moon is right now. So don't over-architect. Don't think you are falling behind. Pay attention to what you can do really well. More importantly, I think pay attention to what your boss can do really well that you can ladder up to. And then you become a link in her chain that is going to guide you and take you to a place you never even knew. So that may sound also ethereal, but it's really the basic building blocks. Yeah. Right? Yeah. What did we learn in kindergarten? I love to say lead with generosity. What do other people need? Not what do I need? What do other people need? And if you can do that for your boss and your boss's boss, you are going to be putting yourself on a path that that is skies the limit.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, a lot of that has to do with building relationships, you know, talking about between the leader and the direct reports and the rising team members, you know, whoever it is. I know that one thing that's really important to all of us is that return on the investment you put into a relationship and you kind of, you know, get out of it what you put in. But there's more than just there's more that's important than just what are you gonna get out of it. It's, I think the important part is what are you gonna put into the relationship? So what's your secret sauce to building real authentic relationships, both in life and in work?

SPEAKER_02

That's such a great and important part of the conversation. There's gotta be glue. And for me, Shane, my glue has been part of my aptitude. And my aptitude is helping people. I mean, I know that's part of your aptitude too, because you you put a lot of energy and effort into finding your guest and making sure that you are relevant to your listeners and that they leave the podcast a smarter, happier, more value-added person in the world. And that's very, very cool. But I think the glue for me, and you have to find your own glue, is it lights me up to help someone. So that is how I form my authentic relationships. I at the end of at the end of today, I will look at you and say, Shane, how can I help you? It's just part of who I am. Because then, Shane, that holds me accountable to go past this podcast and to do more. And that creates a web, a network that is so full and so rich, but that I will have to continue to cultivate. I cannot let a relationship, I can't let it die. I have to water and feed it. And that to me is what builds a strong network. And network is one of the most important assets you will ever have. You will lean on it over and over and over again. I lean on people I knew in high school. One of my biggest regrets is I don't have a lot of my friends from University of Florida that I keep up with the Gator Nation. Made new ones, but I don't have those classmates. So I encourage people that are in that natural network of college, stay connected. LinkedIn is a beautiful way, but you know, there are there are many social media platforms that people can use. But the most important thing is you nurture it. You make it a strong rope, you make it a strong web that you can stand on, and you will need to stand on it over and over and over again. So find your glue. What is your glue? And is and is your glue to make introductions for other people? Is your glue to be that super smart person that's always reading? And you take a moment, five seconds to send whatever you just read to the three people that you think they would love this article. I love when I get those. I love when I get those. But but find your glue. I have a great group of friends, and our glue is wine, and there's nothing wrong with that, right? But it's the most interesting, it's it's 30 women and two very smart women that moved to Louisville put this together, and they made it easy for the 30 of us to get together the third Wednesday of every month at one of our homes, and we even bring our own glasses so the hostess doesn't have to wash a glass, which is the biggest pain in the neck about a 30-person wine party. But we the the host picks a topic that has to do with wine. Where were you when you had your first glass of champagne? Well, we have the best time, but there are no do's. There is no shame if you don't show up, there is no shame if you're late or leave early. But the glue is the friendship that is so richly rewarded by having space with 30 women that just want to kick off their high heels, have a glass of champagne, and talk about life.

SPEAKER_01

Love that.

SPEAKER_02

That's great social glue.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. Great glue. So if Jenna were here today, what she would have she would rein us back in and bring us back to social media. She'd say, let's talk about social media because that's what we do here. So you mentioned LinkedIn. Talk about how do you use LinkedIn because your in-person relationships are so critical to what you do and how you go through your life. How have you used LinkedIn in this day and age as a leader? But also how do you recommend people of Gen Z be using LinkedIn today when we know the job market is tough and that networking is important and all those connections matter? How do you use it? And then what kind of advice do you have?

SPEAKER_02

So I I use LinkedIn to reach people that I probably will never meet. That's the whole purpose of writing the book, candidly, was to to to to help people that I may never even meet. So I use LinkedIn for for that, A, and B for building my brand. Everyone needs a brand. You have a beautiful brand, Shane. Your kids are building their brand. And LinkedIn is a fantastic way to build your brand. I use LinkedIn much more often than I would use a Facebook because the brand building I want to do is actually for the readers of LinkedIn. They happen to be more in the career space, workspace, ex than necessarily the folks that I chat with on Facebook. So I use LinkedIn to find new new people to do business with, to help my law firm gain their authority and brand, and to help me do the same thing with my brand. I also love to stay in touch with great, certain great like-minded thinkers, Sahel Bloom. I love his book and I love his commentary. So I seek him out and then I often share what he's talked about or comment on what he's talked about. Brene Brown, everybody loves Brene Brown. So when I find folks that I love, I immediately follow them. And then I'm I can curate my own LinkedIn that way, right? So I'm gonna follow the people that I'm interested in. I hope some will follow me. And then we get into a dialogue. I love LinkedIn for that. And I use Twitter for that or X for that as well. Carly, we talked about Carly, she's much more trendy than I am on message, et cetera. So she helps me with Instagram. And that's another thing to think about. You and Jenna, intergenerational tutoring or mentoring is a fantastic thing. And you can do a lot of that on LinkedIn or on Instagram or on, I'm on a network called Blue now. So look at who you're trying to engage with, work with, look at your what your topics are that you are good at or that you want to be good at, and use LinkedIn for that. It's it's it's amazing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. Do you connect with people who reach out to you or are you particular about who you connect with?

SPEAKER_02

I'm just curious. You know, I worked for an amazing entrepreneur when I first started uh as a chief, my first chief operating officer job, and he never turned down an opportunity for a meeting. And I take that with me every single day, and I meet with a ton of people, and some of them end up not being as valuable as as maybe I had hoped, but for the most part, I didn't waste a minute. So I do that with LinkedIn, and really quickly you can find out if you were just on a on a random dial that somebody wants to sell you copy paper. And you you don't have to invest much time in that. You didn't have to drive to a Starbucks and then figure it out. It's a very efficient platform. So I tend to not blanket say yes. I tend to look at them. Who are they following? Is there a connect connection space? And and yes, I'll I'll connect. And if I can help somebody. Yeah. Not not necessarily with the copy paper, but if I can help somebody, because it's an efficient way to do that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. I agree. Yeah. I am I feel like I've gotten more particular who I accept going forward. Um, you know, when it was new, I just connect with anyone now. I'm a little more like, hmm, I know why you're reaching out to me. Exactly. I'm a little bit more particular than I used to be, but I do love to connect with people on LinkedIn and I reach out and connect with people every day. Every day I'm reaching out to someone. Yeah. So I kind of want to bring it home and wrap it up with your more than three decades of leading and setting culture and helping people kind of rise up and build companies that that make sense, that work for the people who work there. So I want to talk just a little bit about Gen Z and how, you know, this job market is tough. I'm I'm reading that it's getting a little bit better, God willing. But I, you know, I'm just curious from your perspective, what's getting somebody in this first entry-level job right out of internship? What's getting them the position and what's helping them keep the position?

SPEAKER_02

So it's really interesting. Uh, the I heard, I think it was a professor at Columbia University say that no longer are the bulk of the jobs going through college recruiting. The the big companies that still have the big bucks for college and campus recruiting, they are scraping the top 1 to 2% off. So manage your expectations, right? That's the first thing I tell people. And then know that you need time in the saddle. This may not be the perfect first job, but you need a first job, right? So, and and you need that, Shane, because leaders are are in a very big rush these days. They have more to do. The incoming of information and the expectation of production is higher than it's ever been. And they don't sadly have as much time to train. So get experience wherever you can. And that might come with no dollars. I mean, you said your daughter is doing a non-paid internship.

SPEAKER_01

No, no, she's paid. She's paid. She's just paid. Partially. But she is paid. It's part-time, so it's it's not a full-time job yet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But but I say that even if it is volunteer, give give yourself time to get some experience. This isn't for the rest of your life. Nothing is forever, right? Nothing is forever. I I, you know, except religion, marriage, and and you know, hopefully friendships. And I can make fun of all of this, but any, and I was gonna say, and hopefully your teeth. But but get yourself some experience. And if that means volunteering to get that, go to a not-for-profit. I tell people that when you can go to a not-for-profit and do work that gives you an edge later in business, that is a twofer because you're giving back to community. And by the way, this generation wants purpose in what they do. So if you can get a twofer by doing some volunteer work at a not-for-profit, taking all that rich learning you've had in college and applying it to somebody, an organization that needs it so desperately. And then, by the way, there goes a position on your resume that I did this, that, or the other. And now you've got a hiring manager that looks at you and says, okay, I know they know how to do this. They're proven I don't have to, you know, get them into this first level, blah, blah, blah. So that to me is a great way. And and back to the original conversation, I believe I heard that over 50% of this year's college grads are going into more trade than necessarily business or professional services. I have a nephew that had a brilliant college career and and then a great, you know, set of letters beside his name when he graduated. But he went to trade because it, it, it found his work life in a better place. It shoot, it shot him to the top very quickly because he was able to work with his aptitudes, which are fine motor skills, and got him to a really good place. So think non-traditionally, right? This is a time to think non-traditionally. Go for the not-for-profit, go for the volunteer, go for trade, but you need, you cannot waste your 20s. I'm gonna say something that may, that may spark some debate with your listeners, but do not go back to school. Don't relax into being an excellent student. Shane, we can't do 90,000 hours is waiting. We cannot be a student forever. And I know so many that hit the hard wall either in career, they didn't like it, or they couldn't get a job. And so they went back to school. And that's okay once, but you cannot keep going back. You've gotten real if it takes 10,000 hours, Malcolm Gladwell's theory, to get really good at something, you are a really good student by the time you graduate. You got to get really good at work. And it's not, and unless you are independently wealthy, that 90,000 hours is waiting. You gotta start. You gotta walk out on that road and jump in. So, did that help answer that for help the Gen Zers?

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. And I'll tell you, from the moment I got that D plus in Rocks for Jocks, I knew I wasn't going to grad school. So I didn't care. I was had a good time in college. I had some great internships. It led me into some really amazing career positions. And, you know, Jenna's kind of the same way. She was never gonna go to grad school. She had a good time in college, and she is on her way, living in the city, getting to the point where she's gonna be able to afford herself soon. I just love hearing that.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, and because it's not the traditional way of thinking right now. Yeah, right. It's it's planning for two more years of school or four more years of school, and then I can start life. You can start life sooner than that. Yeah, right. But but but but it's but we have to think non-traditionally, right? That's even though I say shout out to the 98%, and I'm in the 98%, you know, I'm not in that rarefied air, my career finally did take me to that rarefied air, as yours has as well. So think non-traditional. The the there's a there is the social media platforms are really good at taking an opinion that's this big and making it megaphone to this big. Don't believe everything, right? Believe yourself, learn your aptitudes, learn what lights you up, and then go do it. Get started.

SPEAKER_01

Get started any way you can. Absolutely. Such good advice. For more advice, people can get your book, Ordinary to Extraordinary, on Amazon. That's available. So everybody go read Patty Del Tie's book. You they can also find you, am I right, pattydaletie.com. Pattydaletie.com and it's IE.

SPEAKER_02

And our lovely local. I know you go way past the little book, but Carmichael's books and Borders both have my book. So I love to shout out to the local because they do, they do so much for our beautiful community um and you know, beyond. So I love that. And if people want to connect with you, LinkedIn is the best way. Absolutely. I would love it. I I do not turn, and even if you're a copy paper salesman, you you that's okay. I will, I will accept your. If you tell me you were on Shane Shane's podcast and saw me, I will certainly link you in.

SPEAKER_01

I love that. Patty Dale, I am so glad that Carly introduced us and that I got to meet you today. Thank you for being part of the social dialogue.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you, Shane, and shout out to Carly Mason Greer. She does a great job. She does. All right, have a great day. You too. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01

Thanks for joining us on the Social Dialogue Podcast. If you like today's conversation, be sure to leave us a five star rating and a review and share it with a friend.

SPEAKER_00

Keep the dialogue going with us on social. Find us on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and YouTube. I'm Shane. And I'm Jenna. Thanks for listening.