Alix Behar on Relationship OCD (ROCD), Intrusive Doubt & Saving Her Relationship

In this episode of The OCD Confessional, we’re joined by Alix Behar (@recoverocd), OCD advocate and content creator, to talk about relationship OCD (ROCD) — and how it nearly cost her the relationship she’s now built a life around.

Alix shares how OCD first showed up for her, how intrusive doubts and constant questioning took over her mind, and what it’s like when your brain convinces you that something is wrong with the person you love most. We talk about the emotional toll of ROCD, the reassurance traps that keep it alive, and how Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP) helped her begin to break free.

In this episode, we explore:
 • What relationship OCD actually feels like
 • How ROCD targets love, attraction, and certainty
 • Why reassurance never works long-term
 • How ERP helps retrain your brain
 • Turning recovery into advocacy

This conversation is honest, validating, and incredibly important for anyone who has ever questioned their relationship because of OCD.

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

I also think that people who are in a lot of pain can feel a little better after listening. Maybe we get them to laugh a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 0:06

Yeah, I think laughing at yourself is like the best thing. It's huge.

SPEAKER_05 0:10

And you can only do it when you know other people are in the same vacuum about it.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Yeah, that's the idea. Like the the whole genesis of this podcast was like first you want to explain or discuss stuff that's going on that someone else might relate to, but also to be able to laugh about it. And exactly. I just felt like we want a place where people can have fun too with this whole thing. Yeah. When you s have a moment to step back and look at it, some of the stuff we do is really funny. Like it just is. I mean, the the uh Alicia a couple weeks ago was in tears when I was talking about standing at a light switch for 10 minutes one time like this. Like, and I had to, it just didn't feel right. And it was 10 minutes of sitting, and like that's that is funny. I mean, in the moment I was in amazing distress and was really burned out.

SPEAKER_05 0:57

But like I just picture you just because I know you and I just was like, I know this version of Liam, but then we all have our OCD version where it's like, what the hell? Like, picture me stacking furniture in front of the door because I'm convinced I'm gonna get murdered. Like I'm just like pulling furniture down my stairs by myself. Like, that is funny.

SPEAKER_04 1:17

So people think once you like get to the other side of it, you're like, Why the hell did I ever do that? Like, that doesn't make any sense. But you're right, it's funny.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

It just is it's funny and terrible all at the same time.

SPEAKER_05 1:30

This is sad.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

I'm Alicia. And I'm Liam. We both have OCD. And instead of spiraling alone, we decided to turn our symptoms into a podcast. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_05 1:42

Here we overshare real stories, laugh through the anxiety, and talk to actual experts who can explain why your brain keeps asking, What if I accidentally marry my cousin?

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Whether your thing is hand washing, mental rituals, or just silently panicking during normal conversations, congrats, you have found your people.

SPEAKER_05 2:01

This is a safe place, unless you're an intrusive thought, in which case, get in line, buddy. We're booked.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

So grab a weighted blanket, cancel your plans for the fifth time, and let's dive in. This is the OCD Confessional.

SPEAKER_05 2:15

And yes, we did check this recording four times before uploading it.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Welcome back, everybody, to the OCD Confessional. Alex Baer is a mental health advocate and content creator who openly shares her experience with OCD and anxiety. She has spent the last three years working in nonprofit community outreach, supporting youth through substance misuse prevention and early intervention. Alex is currently in graduate school, earning her master's in counseling, driven by a deep desire to support others the way she was once supported. We are so happy to have her here. Alex, welcome to the OCD Confessional.

SPEAKER_04 2:51

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here and chat. All right, let's dive in. What is your confession today? So my confession is kind of ironic. It's that I used to confess every single thought that I had that I thought was like bad or like impure. Um, so I would confess it to my partner and it showed up a lot in like relationship OCD. So that was like my most um like common thing that I did because of OCD.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Can you give us an example of what that would look like?

SPEAKER_04 3:21

Yeah. So if I like had a thought about another guy, if I was just out and I saw someone and I was like, oh, like they're cute, like, you know, just a simple thought like that, which is very normal and very human, my brain would be like, oh, that means that you like cheated on your partner or you want to cheat on your partner. Um, and then I would go and like confess it to him, which is obviously not good for my OCD and can be hurtful as well. So it was just not good for either of us.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

So you walk back in from your walk and you're like, hey Han, how did you broach that subject with him? And then how did he respond?

SPEAKER_04 3:57

Yeah. So in the beginning, he like, we've been we were together before we got married for like four or five years. Um so in the beginning, he could kind of tell when I was anxious, and I would start by being like, Oh, like I thought about something and it's not really how I feel, but I feel like I have to tell you. Um, because if I don't, like I'm lying to you. And in the beginning, he was like very like kind and patient about it, which I give him like so much credit for because I wouldn't have been if someone like did that to me. Um, but as time went on, it got very like exhausting for him, um, just hearing some thoughts that you know don't need to be shared. Um, and that's kind of what led me into like therapy, a more intense therapy was the confessing, which was really impacting our relationship.

SPEAKER_05 4:44

Mm-hmm. I can relate to that. I don't think I realized that that was a that was uh compulsion. When I think back now, I'm like, wait, I would do that too. It's better, some things are just better left unsaid. When did OCD first show up for you?

SPEAKER_04 4:58

Uh probably when I was 13. So I'm 29 now. It started out as like contamination. So like I got sick at summer camp one year and I ended up getting like a stomach bug, started throwing up, like all of that. And it was kind of like a light switch. Like after that, I just started having major OCD symptoms. So like washing my hands until they bled, um freaking out about touching doorknobs or anything that was contaminated. And so that kind of what got that's what got the ball rolling with like OCD symptoms.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

And did you know what was going on in that moment? And were you able to talk to your parents about it or what happened from there?

SPEAKER_04 5:36

Yeah, at first it was really difficult because I didn't understand what was happening. I thought I was just like being normal and that like everybody acted like that. Um, but it got to the point where I was like going out, I wasn't going out to dinner with family because I was scared of eating something and getting food poisoning, and I was making a big deal about how food was cooked for me because I was so scared about getting sick, and my parents really didn't understand it. Anxiety had never really come up in our family, or at least in this way. So it was very new to them, and I think they were trying to be patient, but again, they started to get frustrated as it continued and it started impacting like other parts of our life and stuff like that. Um, but eventually, you know, as my OCD, my OCD progressed, um, they became a lot more like understanding and came around that, oh, it's probably something more than just anxiety and something else is going on.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Did they put you in counseling or what did they do at that point where they recognized, hmm, this might just be beyond the normal childhood anxiety?

SPEAKER_04 6:38

Yeah. So I was really um close to my dad. And so he was kind of like my support system. I just, my mom and I had a different relationship, and so it was harder for me to talk about things like that. But with my dad, I was very open. He, you know, tried to find me a therapist and we went, and I just I was not in the headspace to do exposure therapy, and I was young and I didn't understand it. Um, and I remember the therapist said to me, like, Oh, like the only way to get over this is to like face it. And I was like, No, like I am not doing that. Um, so I didn't go back. Um, and I kind of just like was in and out of therapy for a while, and I never had the right treatment. So exposure therapy was never really brought up for me. And I think that's why it took a long time for me to finally like get better from OCD because I wasn't in the right, you know, treatment for it. When did you finally get into ERP? Um, I would say, so I'm 29 now. When I was like 25, um, is when OCD started to get like really bad again and impacts my relationship. Um, and I found uh me and my dad found like a local um like outpatient center that like had like certain like treatment options depending on like where you were in your journey. And so that's kind of when it started for me.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

So you would say your main subtypes are contamination, it sounds like emetophobia was in there somewhere. Yeah. And then relationship OCD. Did you find that at different times in your life, one of those was the strongest, and that was the thing that you were, you know, really focused on and anxious about, and then it would move to something else, or were you dealing with all those at the same time?

SPEAKER_04 8:17

Yeah, I think it definitely came up at like certain points in my life. So when I was younger and I wasn't like in a relationship, um metaphobia and contamination were the forefront because that was really all that was like going on in my life. And then I went to college and you know, I started dating, and that's when the relationship OCD started to come up a lot. And it's always been like my most prominent theme. Um, I've had like other themes as well, like, you know, scrubulosity and stuff like that. But relationship OCD has kind of always been the biggest one for me.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Did it show up in friendships too, you know, in high school and in college, or was it more so just focused on romantic relationships?

SPEAKER_04 8:56

Yeah, I I don't, I can't recall it ever showing up in like a normal, you know, like platonic friendship. It could have been, and maybe I just didn't realize it. But um, it never really just like affected my friendships. So I assumed it wasn't really like, you know, relationship OCD. Um, but it was just always clear when it was in a really like a romantic relationship that it was coming up.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

And were you able to develop friendships with the, you know, the contamination stuff and the emetophobia? You can't go out to restaurants. My guess is, you know, hanging out with your friends at that age was probably tough because you're worried, oh, what is does someone have a cold? Do they have the flu? Like, did were you able to form friendships and have kind of a normal childhood, or did you have that experience that a lot of people with OCD do where that was kind of taken from you?

SPEAKER_04 9:41

Um, I think in some ways, like I had my group of friends who I kind of had at the time who kind of just like stuck around even though I was struggling. Um, but then as I kind of got older, like I said, this started when I was 13, I kind of just did exposure therapy on myself. Like I got very frustrated with myself and how it was impacting my life that I was like, I just can't do this anymore. Um, and I started like slowly like trying to face my fears and break those habits. And I didn't even know I was doing it at the time. Like I just was like, this is probably like the only way to get better. And so I stopped washing my hands so much, um, didn't like use tissues to eat everything. And then, you know, things started to get better and I kind of started to heal from it. And I don't really struggle with it uh anymore till this day. So I'm really grateful that. And I think over time I showed myself that um I can touch doorknobs, I can not wash my hands all the time, and I'm fine. Like I'm not always getting sick from it. So those fears, you know, they would just weren't relevant. You know, anything can happen. I can get sick, but it's not worth me losing so much of my life for.

SPEAKER_05 10:47

Yeah. What would you say to somebody right now in the thick of it who is dealing with contamination, OCD, um, during those moments when your body is having that physical response to the exposure?

SPEAKER_04 10:59

I think that's the hardest part is just like their response prevention and they're really sitting with that like difficult feeling. And like nobody wants to deal with that. But I think just giving yourself grace and giving yourself compassion that you don't have to, you know, get better in one night or, you know, a couple weeks. Like it, it's gonna take time. And with hard work and with doing the exposures and really like riding the wave as hard as it is, um, even if it's just like a little bit at a time, like delaying a compulsion in like five minutes or like 10 minutes, those are still wins. Um, and acknowledging those wins and just knowing that you're not alone and that there are people out there who are going through the same thing and they're probably just not talking about it. Um, so I think just really giving yourself compassion is so important and not being so hard on yourself.

SPEAKER_05 11:45

Yeah. Progress, not perfection, right? Exactly. Yeah. So you're married now, which means you had a lot of exposure to some of the relationship stuff that came up. Where are you now with that? And congratulations.

SPEAKER_04 11:58

Thank you. We're actually like six months married tomorrow, which is crazy that it's flown, it's flown by. Um, I'm in such a better place now. Like I still have normal human thoughts that come up that I used to take as like urgent and like I had to respond to them. And now I'm just very much like chill about it and like not giving it attention and knowing how OCD works, that if I give it attention, it's only going to grow and get worse, and kind of knowing the things that I have to do to keep it managed. And I think I've just gotten a lot better at like sitting with discomfort and like the unknown.

unknown 12:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

I want to dig into the relationship OCD stuff a bit more with you. So you've said that at one point it almost cost you the relationship. So can you tell us why, how it got to that point?

SPEAKER_04 12:47

Yeah, so I like I said, I was around like 24 or 25. We had been dating like maybe a year. Um, and as I mentioned, he was very kind and like patient with me the first full year and knew I had anxiety, but didn't really know like what OCD was, never really experienced it before. And it just got like really difficult because I was confessing all the time and he was already going through a lot at the time with like work, and it was, you know, like a year after the pandemic. So there was just a lot going on. And it was kind of like he wasn't like filling his own cup, he was just pouring for mine, kind of in the best way to put it. Um, so he was spending so much time trying to reassure me that like he wasn't taking care of himself and kind of neglecting his own mental health. Um, and so he basically just said to me, like one day, he's like, I can't continue on if this is how it's gonna go. Um and I hadn't at that point I had never, like I said, really been an ERP before. So I was like, oh my gosh, like I'm gonna lose this relationship. And so somehow we came to like an agreement that if I try to get better, um, you know, that he would stick around. And as long as I'm like making that progress and you know, trying, then he's gonna, he'll stay and like, you know, I'll get better. Um, and so we were kind of like in a limbo for a while because I was like, okay, well, what if I don't get better? That means you're gonna leave me. So in my mind, I was like, I'm growing more attached to you and spending all this time with you, not knowing if we're gonna end up together. And that was like the uncertainty again. That that probably sent you spiral. It was a whole nother level of anxiety where I felt like I couldn't like be open or be myself because I was like, okay, like you're only gonna get more attached. Um, but luckily, you know, I went to therapy. He was very supportive and it worked for me. It did take time. I didn't start seeing progress until like six months into exposure therapy. Um, but I think he was seeing little growth along the way. Um, and that's kind of what kept him like going and knowing that I was making, you know, I was doing all the right things.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Can you give us some other examples of how it was showing up? So you've talked about how you're out in public, you see an attractive man, and then you go home and you confess to your boyfriend, like, I saw this attractive guy, you know, and you're confessing, almost trying to take that anxiety off of yourself about what that means. That's your compulsion, is the confession. And so for, you know, we've talked a lot on the show, Alicia and I, about how to be with someone with OCD, especially if it's relationship OCD, takes a really strong person. Because if you're on the receiving end of that, let's say you're the boyfriend, you don't even know that she has OCD, but she's just like every other day walking in and being like, I saw this guy who's really attractive. I'm like getting feelings for the you'd be like, what the hell is going on here? Like, yeah, how every day you're going out and seeing, you know, so I'm so curious about how he was receiving it because did he have a sense that, like, okay, this is obviously some sort of, you know, psychological issue that that is playing out here, or did he worry, like, no, maybe she really doesn't have very strong feelings for me if she's constantly seeing these other people and and and finding them attractive?

SPEAKER_04 16:06

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I would love to know more. I'm gonna have to talk to him about this now and just see where his head was. But he was just always like so calm, like, never raised his voice at me, never got super angry at me when I would tell him this stuff, which is crazy because, like you said, like if it was the opposite and he was telling me stuff about another girl, I would be like, oh my gosh, like why are you with me? Like, you don't really love me. So I don't know how he dealt with it. And um, I think maybe priming him to the facts before the relationship that I had anxiety maybe helped. Maybe he like realized that, like, oh, a lot of it is probably just like, you know, being anxious and that's where it's coming from. And I think I always kind of like said to him, you know, like I don't want these thoughts, like they're just coming up. And, you know, I love you and like I want to be with you. So maybe that was reassuring to him in some sense. I really don't know. He just was a saint and like so good with me. Um, but yeah, so I just think he's like honestly, like, if it was any other guy I'd been with in the past, they would have like broken up with me and wanted like nothing to do with me.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Yeah, I I'm just I I we need to have him on the show. I need to pick his brain about how he was reacting to this. What else how else was it showing up? So um, just by way of background, I also have relationship OCD. Mine, and Alicia has had a taste of this too. Mine tends to be a bit more about my worries that they're not in love with me, as opposed to the other way around. Like, oh, am I attracted to other people? That isn't mine, it goes the other way. I'm curious how else it was showing up for you beyond, you know, oh, I saw someone, I find him attractive. Is that a problem? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:53

Yeah, a lot of it was like also I started avoiding like having conversations just with guys in general. So at the time I was working and I worked at a gym, and so there was a lot of like male instructors, and every time I would like talk to them, I would go back and like confess or ruminate and be like, okay, like what did I talk to them about? Was did I give them like too much attention? Did I like say the wrong thing? Um, so I started like avoiding like men for a really long time and just like wanted nothing to do with them because I thought, oh, like, you know, I could be doing something, be flirting with them and just not remember or stuff like that. So that showed up a lot. Um, again, it was a lot of me like not being present in the relationship with my husband, you know, at the time because I'd be so in my head and um we wouldn't have like any like just like chill, like fun, like hanging out time because anxiety would always come up. Um, so it was just a lot of rumination, a lot of like avoidance. Um, yeah, so those were kind of my big ones, like not talking to even just friends who were guys, you know, stopping like those friendships. So yeah, that was a big part of it.

SPEAKER_05 18:59

And it's so shitty and unfortunate because we all know that OCD attacks what we love and value the most. And if you're in love with your your partner and the last thing on earth you ever want is to split up and your OCD will cause that very thing. It's that sucks. You know, it's like unless you get a firm grasp and again have a partner that can tolerate some of that stuff, it's just really, it's really unfortunate. But I'm glad you guys worked out and he had the confidence and everything to stick around. Um, okay, so you have built a really impactful Instagram page. I love it. I love the way that you articulate what you're feeling and how you connect with your audience. What inspired that journey and what made what gave you that confidence to share openly about your struggles?

SPEAKER_04 19:50

Yeah, honestly, it just started as a way for me to vent and kind of get my feelings out. I made that page when I had just started um therapy. I just started exposure therapy, and I felt like I was the only person in the world having these thoughts. I never really talked to people who had OCD. I don't really have people in my life who have OCD. You know, they have anxiety, just general anxiety. But some of the thoughts I was having, and the biggest ones were about the cheating OCD and the relationship OCD. I was so sure that I was the only person in the world who had those thoughts. So when I started like posting about it anonymously, like I didn't have a picture, I didn't have my name, it was kind of just like a diary. People started like responding and being like, oh my gosh. Like, and I talked to this girl who I'm still friends with now, who I met online, who says, Oh my god, like I had those thoughts too. And it was like a whole like weight lifted off my shoulders. And I was like, You're lying, like, there's no way. Like I thought I was the only one, and I thought I was a terrible person. She's like, No, like I have the exact same thing. And so I started writing about it, and people started responding and saying, Can you share more on this and all that? So it really just started off as like a diary because I needed to vent and I didn't really have people in my life who understood it.

SPEAKER_05 21:00

Yeah, it's so important. It's also maybe a sneaky way of getting that reassurance that we need.

SPEAKER_04 21:07

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_05 21:08

Right? Someone tell me, yeah, it can be. Um like I just made that in negative. I'm sorry. I get it. No, I understand.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

You're confessing, basically. Is it you're that's what we're doing? Yeah, that's all we're all doing on the case.

SPEAKER_04 21:24

I think just like at the time, I needed to hear that, you know, I wasn't the only person. And I my therapist at the time told me that, you know, they're like, obviously, you're not alone. Like, what if I were in business? Because people have OCD. Like, and I there wasn't that many people in the treatment place that I was at at the same time. There were like two other people and they had very different OCD OCD. It was like typical, like just right OCD. So again, this was like all very new to me, and I've never heard of it before. Um, so when people started messaging me, I was like, oh my gosh, like I'm actually not alone, and this is amazing that it's not just me.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

No, it's incredibly. Powerful. Maybe one of the most powerful tools in recovery from OCD and probably most mental health issues is unity and finding other people who are going through it. I want to talk to you a bit about your time in recovery. So when you finally decided to go, it was because your relationship was in danger and you guys had decided together that you needed to do this. What exactly did that look like there? What how were they exposing you to that? And how did that eventually help you get better?

SPEAKER_04 22:31

Yeah. So I remember my first session was like the typical like making a hierarchy of like all the things that like brought me anxiety. And so we would start really small, like just watching movies or listening to music about cheating and like affairs and all of that. So a lot of my exposures were just watching movies where people were cheating on each other. Leanam's favorite thing.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

I'm just hating therapy. I hate it too.

SPEAKER_05 22:56

It's the worst. It was a lot of that that's you feel like you're giving them ideas. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:02

You're like, you're not allowed to watch this because you're gonna get some idea. Exactly. It was just like a lot of like sitting with that discomfort and not thinking and applying it to my own life. Oh, like have I done this before? Um, so it was that, and it was a lot of script writing, like writing like my worst case scenarios, reading them back to myself, reading them to my therapist, recording it, listening it back like over and over again until I was kind of just like, okay, like yeah, obviously this is BS. Like, and I was able to like, you know, separate myself from it. And it took a lot of time, and my therapist would have me do some like really weird stuff, honestly, that maybe I don't know if I would want to do again. Um, but I guess that's the whole point of like exposure therapy. Um, and it obviously worked, so she knew what she was doing, but at the time it can feel so like counterintuitive and like like it's not working because you're doing all this stuff and you're teaching yourself that you have to sit with that and like you can't react to it. So it's painful at the time, but I can see why you know it works.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

Can I ask you this? When you were going through that, how did your therapist tell you to handle discussing it or not with your husband or boyfriend?

SPEAKER_04 24:11

Yeah. So they told me, like, if you get the urge to confess, um, the goal is obviously not to tell your partner, like if you really, really feel like you have to, like, tell a friend or write it down in your notes app and then like just move on with it. Um, and then if it came to the point where I felt like I had to confess to my partner, leaving out certain information, not fully confessing, so kind of like making it imperfect um as a way to kind of like still not completely give in to the OCD and practice like some response prevention.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

That's so interesting because uh so I'm in ERP right now for relationship OCD and a couple of other subtypes. But one of the things my therapist said is you are not to discuss this treatment with your wife. So my wife is a clinical psychologist, which complicates things a little bit, but uh so much of the way I dealt with my OCD leading up to this moment was to confess to her what was going on with me. I didn't realize that was a compulsion in and of itself. But basically what happened is I spent so many years being silent about my struggle that when once I finally opened up to my wife, which was a great decision to be vulnerable with her and say, I'm really struggling, because it led me on a path to recovery. But it was kind of one of these things where it felt so good to open up to her when I finally did that it just became a floodgate. And it was just like just verbal diarrhea all the time of like, now I'm thinking this, help me with that. I'm thinking this. And eventually my therapist recognized that is its own compulsion. You are constantly going to her for reassurance and you're doing it sometimes in direct ways, sometimes in indirect ways, but for the course of this ERP, you're not to talk to her about the ERP. You're not going to talk about what it is that you're doing for an exposure, uh, because what you're doing is trying to get reassurance and you're messing.

SPEAKER_05 26:05

And so you guys would do you find yourself going, I really want to tell you this, but I'm not supposed to.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Yeah. Like how because she's so curious as a clinical psychologist that would pretty frequently be like, Hey, so how was therapy today? What did you guys do? Yeah. And I'm just, it was good.

SPEAKER_05 26:20

Um and she's your best friend. You want to share that stuff with it.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

And that really sucks, is that it it does kind of rob you of that dynamic of, you know, you you want to be open and share this thing. I mean, ERP is gonna be one of the more difficult things you're gonna do in your life. And you and it's and it's the most one of the most impactful things you're gonna do in your life. And of course, you want to share that with your best friend and the person in whom you confide the most in every other aspect of your life, but you like can't. I literally sometimes have to like physically bite my tongue. And so it's it's an interference. I was curious how you handled that in your journey.

SPEAKER_04 27:00

Yeah, I know for sure. I remember my therapist saying the same thing, like you cannot tell your partner the exposures you're doing. And it just felt like so heavy because I was like, again, I was like, Well, I'm doing these things, and what if I am actually cheating? What if I'm going too far with these exposures? And I want to go and tell my partner, but I can't. So I think he got really good at like I also have like diarrhea of the mouth where I will I overshare everything. The medical and so you're in good company, Alex. He got to the point where he was like stopping me. He was like, Nope. He was like, Is this a confession? And I was like, You're right. And so he'd be like, I don't want to, I don't want to hear it. Um, I ended like in a gentle way, but yeah, he knew that I wasn't supposed to be sharing my exposures and I still haven't shared them with him today, not because like I couldn't tell him because I am at a point now where it would be fine. But again, like I just think I've gotten to the point where I don't need to, like, I'm confident in our relationship now. But it's like you're right, it's so hard because that's your best friend, that's the person who you want to go to. And for all relationships, even like healthy relationships without OCD, there is like a reassurance that is supposed to be part of the relationship and that every human being, whether they have OCD or not, desires and deserves. So when you have OCD and you're ready to go for reassurance, it's like where do you draw the line? Like, what is normal reassurance or what is bleeding into OCD? So it's a very like complicated thing that I'm still figuring out and I'm sure you're still figuring it out too. Like it's just kind of like learning as we go.

SPEAKER_05 28:29

Yeah, it really is an ongoing thing. Do you feel like you meet the criteria right now for OCD or are you I think right now I think right now I don't, I probably don't meet the criteria.

SPEAKER_04 28:44

I definitely have felt in the past couple weeks just some like normal work stress that came up and um little OCD tendencies that started to come back, but I'm very good now at like acknowledging it and figuring out how OCD shows up for me now. Um, but yeah, I don't think I would meet the criteria. I think for the most part, like I'm very happy and um I know now when OCD comes up how to kind of like, you know, acknowledge it. And I really love like radical acceptance and just like, you know, um accepting that like, you know, these thoughts are gonna come up, like it's a part of being human and I don't have to give them attention. And so I think I've gotten really good at kind of like not stopping OCD, but just accepting it for like what it is and not letting it dictate my life anymore.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

That's awesome. What a um that's incredible for you that you're in that place. Um you now are studying to help other people with OCD. So tell us a little bit about that. What brought you to that decision and where you stand in that journey?

SPEAKER_04 29:43

Yeah, so I kind of always wanted to be a therapist, but I think I wanted to be a therapist when I was struggling so badly with my own mental health that I had some like outside voices be like, oh, like, do you think you'll be able to handle other people's problems? Like you get very emotional and like attached to situations and people. Like, are you strong enough to handle that? And I they didn't mean it in like a mean way. I think it came off kind of hurtful, but it was like valid at the same time. Like, am I able to, you know, not take home other people's problems? Um, so I just kind of was like, okay, like I'm not gonna go, you know, I'm not gonna choose this and just go a different, a different route and you know, still help people in other ways in other ways. Um but it wasn't until I was, you know, talking to my dad and I was just telling him like my long-term goals and how I just really wanted to be a therapist and especially for people who have OCD. Um, and he's like, I just think you should do it, like just go back to school. And I was like, oh, well, what if, you know, I can't handle people's problems? And he's like, but you're in therapy yourself. Like, you know what I mean? Like you can handle it. Like if you have a problem, you go to your therapist and you talk about it with her. And so it was kind of like very last minute, and I applied like um in December, right before like, you know, the semester started in January. Um, and I got in and the program worked really well for my schedule. I was still able to work full time um and you know, do stuff for school. And even like I just had to film a mock session yesterday with my friend and be the therapist for 30 minutes, and it was so intimidating and like so scary. Um, and I thought, you know, I used to be like, oh, being a therapist would be easy. Like, I got it, like it's just a conversation. And although it is, it can take like some time for those skills to actually like stick and like implement them. Um, so it was it was definitely it's been a really fun experience, but it's been challenging, but I expected it to be. So I'm happy and um, you know, I'm excited to keep learning and finally be able to do that one day. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_05 31:38

I'm you should feel very proud of yourself.

SPEAKER_04 31:41

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

That mock session, what disorder did you give your roommate?

SPEAKER_04 31:47

So it wasn't um any like diagnosing. It was more so I was like, oh, like how was your week? And she told me about stuff that has been going on in her life and it happened to be like real stuff, and she's one of my best friends. So we kind of just have that relationship where we can talk about it. Um, and like I had to really be an active listener and like ask her open-ended questions and you know, use the skills that I'm just learning for the first time um in a couple months and like implement them, like paraphrasing, summarizing, like a reflection of content and like repeating it back to her and just you know, being an active listener. And in theory, like when I read about the stuff in my textbooks, I'm like, oh yeah, like I got that. But then when it's like time to actually do it, I'm like, oh my gosh, like what if I forget everything? And so it's a little scary, but um, it's you know, it's just the beginning.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

So I'm very different to think about it versus doing it. Yeah. You can also get trained in ERP as part of that.

SPEAKER_04 32:43

So what I'm in now is just like a general counseling program, but I hope to once I finish to like actually start like getting specialized in ERP and OCD. That's like the main, like the final goal. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

We need more ERP partners and especially ones with lived experience, because I, you know, I I think uh there are, of course, ERP specialists who do fantastic work who don't have lived experience. Yeah. But I do think that it can just bring a little bit of something different to the table when the person who's giving the ERP can relate to what the patient is going through, even if it's just on a level of like understanding the amount of pain that they're in in that moment. And I don't know, I just think there's probably something a little gained by having someone who's gone through what the patient is going through.

SPEAKER_04 33:32

Oh, for sure. Yeah, I I totally agree. Um, I all my therapists in the past, I've had some really good ones. None of them, at least that I know of, has had um OCD. And my current therapist, I don't think she has OCD, but you know, she's phenomenal. Um, but I get what you're saying. Like at my point in my journey, I'm good with that. But somebody who is just starting out and maybe feeling really alone and like they don't have anybody to talk to, having a therapist who understands it and can be like, yeah, I came out the other side can be really powerful.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

Mm-hmm. Love that.

SPEAKER_05 34:05

Do you view recovery as a destination or do you think it's an ongoing practice?

SPEAKER_04 34:11

I think it's definitely an ongoing practice. I wish I could say that, you know, like one day I'll wake up and I won't have OCD anymore. And, you know, right now I have it, but it's managed. But I think there's always gonna be times where it's gonna show up. Um, and I just kind of have to use the skills that I know and, you know, continue to choose recovery. I don't think it's like there's a cure for OCD, unfortunately. Hopefully there is, you know, at some point in the next 20 years, um, and then we can all just be great and happy without it. But um, I think for any mental health condition, it's like an ongoing journey and like it will it gets better, and that doesn't mean that you can't have like a beautiful, fulfilling life. It just means that there's going to be times where it acts up and other times where it doesn't.

SPEAKER_05 34:53

For those times when it acts up, what are some daily habits that have really helped you stay on track and stay in that positive mindset?

SPEAKER_04 35:02

Yeah, I think just reminding myself that I've gotten through something difficult before and I can do it again. Um, just like little things like working out, like walking really helps get me in a good mindset. Um, you know, making sure I'm scheduling therapy sessions as I need them. Um, and just really practicing like self-compassion and giving myself, you know, credit for everything that, you know, I've I've been able to do and that I'm I'm in a good place right now. And I think one of the biggest pieces of advice that my therapist gave me that helped me so much was that it's not about having like zero bad days. It's about having more good days than bad days. Um, and I can say now that like when I have a bad day, I can realize that it's just a bad day. Like it's not a bad life. Like I've had so many amazing things happen. And um, I should I should be proud of myself and try not to just let one day turn into something like more than what it is. I love that.

SPEAKER_05 35:56

And not to not feel guilty for having that bad day, right? And just let yourself just feel it all and know that it will get better. Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Yeah, that's what that is that takes practice because when you're in the bad day, the logic part of your mind goes, I know that by tomorrow or a couple of days from now, I'll be out of this. But for whatever reason, it feels permanent in the moment.

SPEAKER_05 36:19

Yeah. And then someone comes in and says, Oh, it'll get better. And you're like, you you need to stop talking.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

Along those lines, what's a big misconception about OCD that drives you crazy on the regular?

SPEAKER_04 36:34

Um, I think probably what most people who have OCD would say, just hearing like, oh, I'm so OCD, like I like, you know, I'm really organized and I really like things a certain way. Even like when I, you know, I work with a lot of kids and um teenagers, and they'll throw that word around very lightly. And inside I'm just like, oh my gosh, like I have so much to say to you. But I have to like reel it in and be like, okay, like they're kids and like, you know, they might just not understand. Um, but I just hate when people throw around OCD and you know, depression, whatever it is, as if it's just like a simple, like a little thing that, you know, doesn't really affect you. When it for somebody who has it, you're like, this has impacted my life so drastically. For you to reduce it to a like a simple word and adjective, it just makes me so angry. And I used to get so angry and like start fights with people about it. Um, and through a lot of therapy and, you know, talking to people, I'm like, I just have to give them the benefit of the doubt that they don't mean it and they're not having bad intentions. They just don't know.

SPEAKER_05 37:38

Yeah, they just don't know. My girlfriend said it uh when I first found out and was learning what it really is and how I've been living with it my entire life. Um, she said something about how it's her OCD that her closet is color coordinated. And I said, That's actually not what OCD is. I thought that too, but there's a lot more to it. It's pretty, it's pretty debilitating. And she was like, Oh, and I just left it at that.

SPEAKER_04 38:03

But there is really no nice way to like I think that's a really kind way to put it though, the way you did.

SPEAKER_05 38:07

Yeah, that's actually not OCD. She was kind of like, huh? Yeah. I don't know. It's people have a lot to learn still. Yep. I agree.

SPEAKER_01 38:17

That's what we're doing here. That's what you're doing on your page, Alex. So how can people find you if they want to learn more about what you're doing?

SPEAKER_04 38:24

Yeah, so um, I have some YouTube videos that I've done with no CDs. So you can search me on YouTube or follow me on Instagram. That's where I post most of my stuff. Um, and you know, I've actually just started uh, I think it's called Substack, maybe, and I've started like writing on there, uh, which is cool because it gives you a lot more like, you know, information. You can write like actual articles. But I think Instagram is probably the the best place to find me.

SPEAKER_01 38:49

And that's recover OCD, right?

SPEAKER_04 38:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 38:51

Go follow her, guys. She has good stuff. Thank you. I was texting Liam saying, remind me to share the stuff that's coming up for me during this move because I have been, long story short, I've been in the same house for 11 years. I've gotten really comfortable. I feel very safe here. We live in a beautiful street and neighborhood. And we are now in a position to potentially buy. And so where we can buy is in a different area that I don't feel as safe. And if you've been here from the beginning, you will remember that one of my deepest fears is someone breaking in and killing me. And I you laugh. You're gonna laugh until it happens and you're gonna feel really bad, Liam. Um and, you know, I would barricade the doors when my husband was out of town and because I was convinced someone was coming in or stalking me. And um, it became a real compulsion at night to to secure all the doors in the best way I knew how. Pretty ridiculous looking back now, but very real in my mind. And what's coming up for me is how am I supposed to know that where I'm moving is safe? How am I supposed to know that I'm not so I downloaded a free app where you can see what pedophiles are in the area? No, no, Liam, it is alarming. You guys I the amount of registered pedophiles that come up in your area is very disturbing. And it is keeping me from finding a house because look, you can say, okay, maybe this person was charged with assault and he was 18 and his girlfriend was 17 and the parents were pissed. Okay. But you can see what the charges are under their name, how long they served. I'm not I can't do it. I'm not doing it. I will pass up on my dream home the perfect scenario if there is a registered sex offender within a mile. So for me, it's like, okay, at what point do I stop the obsession of researching who is where? Is it better to not know? Is it better? No, I think you should know. If my neighbor is a registered sex offender, that's a big deal. I have two young kids.

SPEAKER_01 41:12

Yeah, well, yeah, depending on what he is registered for. Because right, some people end up on the sex offender registry because they were like urinating in public, right?

SPEAKER_05 41:22

And right, right, right. But it says it on there.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

So I'm like Oh man, how many did you look up where you currently live?

SPEAKER_05 41:31

Yeah, I did. Okay, wait, this is really funny. Okay, wait, this is kind of funny. So I'm in real time, I'm on the phone with my sister. She's the one who told me about the the app, by the way. Thanks for that. Um so I and what happens is is when you go on there, a bunch of red dots will come up, you know, where where they are. So I'm sitting in my living room and I look up the address that I'm in.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

I can't look at the address that I'm in now. And the location is also red. So I'm zooming in. I'm like, oh my gosh, there's one like right here. Oh my gosh. He's like in my living room. Oh my gosh. Wait, that's just my location. I was like, wait, hold on. Why does it say he's on my street? Who is this person? I just kept going closer and closer. It was the pin.

SPEAKER_05 42:31

It was the pin and it was the pin. We I I cried, I laughed so hard.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

People have been following along with your search for a new home, and you had put in you had you had a home that was almost gonna happen. And then you just yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:53

I was an escrow, and look, I don't think that what I'm asking for, I'm willing to bend in some ways, right? And and and I live in LA, it's a very tough market out here, and it's very expensive. I'm very aware of um the situation I'm in. However, um, when the inspections uh came back that there was like leaks and plumbing issues and mold and no drainage and all these huge issues, I was like, I'm sorry, I had no idea the list would be this long. And so we could go back and forth and get credit and negotiate, but I was like, eh, nope, not for not for a million dollars. I'm not, I'm not doing this. I'm out.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

Alicia and I have been texting during this, and then at one point you sent me a picture of a skeleton.

SPEAKER_02 43:43

There was like a skeleton.

SPEAKER_05 43:46

I could not make this up. That was just the the cherry on top. Uh um, you know, you can get someone out there and clean up the mess. That's not an issue, but it was like kind of uh a testament to how the run down the place. Was right? It was like it was lipstick on a pig. They just they slapped some tile on and and and some paint. Um there was a skeleton under the house.

SPEAKER_02 44:09

I text Lam. He thought he thought I meant like a what you said. We should probably report that to the police.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

I was like, they might want to bring this to the police if there are lots of skeletons under the house.

SPEAKER_02 44:28

So I need to pick my poison.

SPEAKER_05 44:30

Do I want to move in next door to a pedophile or skeletons under my house?

SPEAKER_01 44:35

Well, as it turned out, it she meant animal skeletons, but I didn't realize that. And my brain went right to human skeletons. And then you sent me a picture of the skeletons. Guys, you gotta edit a photo of what I sent you and show people. I'm gonna pull it up here. It was like a huge animal.

SPEAKER_05 44:53

Awesome, but it looked like the alligator emoji. And I was like, yeah, you know, when he said termites, alligators, and mice, that was under the house, but I almost that.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

That is a legit large skeleton right over the house.

SPEAKER_05 45:08

My question is, is did it get in and get trapped? How did it why did it die under there? You know?

SPEAKER_01 45:16

Yeah. It probably was carbon monoxide poisoning, which I know is another one of your That's a big one for me, you guys.

SPEAKER_05 45:24

I'm I just don't know if the house hunting uh if I'm cut off for it. I don't think it's gonna work out. I think we're gonna have to just buy like a a motorhome and just drive around town. I mean, you think wait, Costco has those tiny houses for$19,000 right now.

SPEAKER_01 45:43

Oh my god, though, that's cool.

SPEAKER_05 45:45

Yeah, you just have to buy the land for a million bucks.

SPEAKER_01 45:47

Yeah, well, that's that's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 45:50

We're just gonna drive to Boston and end up on your lawn.

SPEAKER_02 45:55

Hey neighbor, we're finally neighbors.

SPEAKER_01 45:57

That'd be cute. I like that. Thanks for listening to another episode of the OCD Confessional. Be sure to follow the show so you get new episodes. You can subscribe to us on YouTube or find us on Instagram and TikTok at the OCD Confessional.