Bridge Building with Joyce Dorian (Part 2)

Join Christy Dragotta and Joyce Dorian as they explore the Jewish roots of Christianity, the importance of understanding and unity between Jews and Christians, and how faith can transform lives. This conversation offers deep insights into biblical history, anti-Semitism, and the call to build bridges of reconciliation. When we listen and come together in our commonalities instead of argue and fight to be right, it changes everything!

To reach Joyce - you can find her on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/1SVcoAVXNk/?mibextid=wwXIfr

YouTube: https://youtube.com/@joycedorianatthebridge?feature=shared

and you can find her podcast anywhere you love to stream them! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey, thanks for joining us today as we continue the talk with Joy Storian of the Bridge Ministries. We are excited to have her continue to share from her heart about the passion that she has for building a bridge between the Jewish and Christian communities. So thanks for joining us today and enjoy part two. When we share our stories, when we share our heart, we're not just trying to be right about something. We can make these connections because at the end of the day, we all have emotions. We've all suffered some big T traumas and some little T traumas, right? We've suffered in different ways. We've had, you know, in your story, you've had divorce, I have as well. You know, we've had loss, we've just had different things. And it's those things that will bring us together. And then all the little things we argue about, they just won't seem as important. So if we would quit blowing up all these things and just start living life with people and loving people, I mean that's what God says. You love me, then you love other people as you love yourself. And if we lived that way, if everyone lived that way, it would be such a different world.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

So, so very, very true. You know, we have somehow shifted in our entire society of becoming as a whole, people who want to be spoon-fed information. As a whole, people who want soundbite information as opposed to being critical thinkers. Did it start with all the teaching for the test with no child left behind? I'm a retired teacher. I could go off on that. You know, the dumbing down of education or or just making education for optics, you know. But um, there's definitely a piece of that there. There's also a piece of um corporations providing curriculum in schools. You know, you're you're thinking that it's all provided by some great educators. Oh, there's a lot of curriculum in schools that's provided by corporations for their agenda purpose. And that was that was shocking to me to see that decades ago. You know, so there's been um a long slow trickle to get us to where we are where people aren't as much critical thinkers and are easier to deceive, and that that really is a very sad thing.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

It is, and I think just time too is a factor there. So many people with cell phones now we have access to each other all the time, and so we're busier than we've ever been, even though we're probably less connected than we've ever been. We have access all the time, and people have access to us all the time, and so I feel like two part of it is people are so busy they don't do the research, they don't look into it, they just hear something and then go, okay. And depending on how you've been brought up and all these things, you just lean into whichever one sounds the most like the voice you've always heard and believed is real, and it's just it's hard because it's without time and without research, it's just what you said. We're living on sound bites, and they they aren't even the truth, and so now we're all less informed.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

I raised my children of Florida and I went with my son on his fourth grade field trip to St. Augustine to the Fountain of Youth. So now in schools we learn that Christopher Columbus um discovered America in 1492. Yes, and so there I am sitting in St. August at St. Augustine at the Fountain of Youth, and they're talking about how Ponce de Leon discovered America um years before, and I'm sitting there like, what? That's not what they teach in school. So then what I discerned out of that was Ponce de Leon had been here many times before, but he wasn't really that interested in America. He was interested in South America. Christopher Columbus is the one who came and put the flag down. Wow. We'd been taught that she was the one who found it, who discovered it.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Isn't that interesting? Yeah. And also on Christopher Columbus's ship, um, there were a lot of Jews. There were a lot of Jews who were fleeing Spain because Spain was so busy in the Inquisition at that time. And there were you at that time in Spain, you either converted or died. So there were a lot of Jews that had converted that this was like, hey, this is my opportunity to get to to get out of Dodge. Yeah. The Bible's been used the wrong way for so long. I mean, look at how the Bible was used to justify slavery.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Right making it acceptable because they didn't understand what the word slave meant, because they didn't understand what the word master meant. And used it to justify um what they were doing.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

Right. Yeah. It's when we get into the mind of man, we stop living in the spirit and abiding in the spirit, listening to the voice of God to guide us and lead us into all truth, using the word of God and the community around us. And it just we get in the mind of man and what makes sense to man, and then we start building these things that aren't at all according to God's heart. And then then it becomes a religion instead of that relationship.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

That relationship, yes. When I first started at the church that I'm at now, I met with my pastor, and I said, something that's been laying on my heart is about um Jewish laws and kosher and so forth, and I don't know. Should I be following, should I not be following? And I really wanted him to give me an answer.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

And he said, that's something you're gonna have to get with the Holy Spirit with and really pray about and really see where he's convicting you and what God is telling you. And my first thought was, wow, that's so much more work. I I really wanted him to give me an answer. I really just was like what to do. Yeah. Yeah, tell me what to do, tell me what box to check so I can so I can be doing it right. And he's like, that's a legalistic thought. You're looking for you know what to make it right, and you have to find your own conviction and you have to really sit with that. And that was that was really powerful for me.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Yeah, that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

And then I went to I took another class uh with another pastor at my church on you know the the book The Supernatural, Michael Heiser's book. My gosh, I could go down a big rabbit hole there. But at the beginning of the course, he said, you may be learning some things that are brand new here. You may be learning some things that challenge some things you learn, but nothing changes the foundation. The foundation of our faith has to remain solid, and everything around it that we can look at and massage, and we're always going to use scripture to define and explain scripture and some things we just have to hold with an open hand, but nothing changes the foundation. So that also has become core in my life that perhaps the way I understand a certain verse, the way I understand a certain chapter or passage will change in time because God reveals new things to me all the time, but the foundation never changes.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

That's right, it's beautiful. So I want to ask you a couple of things. There's one of the things I want to ask is have you reconnected? So have you, or have you told your friend that initially invited you to do the second year of the Bible study? Because and you were like, No, I'm not gonna do that. Have you told gone back and told her, like, now I love Bible study, and all that does she know?

SPEAKER_00 7:29

Okay, so we still nerd out on the Bible together, we still talk all the time, and she has been a guest on my podcast.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

That's so great. Okay, that's really fun. So that's just a fun question I wanted to ask.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

And she came to uh my baptism.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Oh, that's precious. That's really she was crying, she was sitting there crying. Oh, I'm sure. Yeah, the many prayers, right, that we have for the people. And I guess some people are really well-meaning when they're out there and when they use the Bible to bash people over the head. I feel like in their minds, what they're doing is trying to be helpful, trying to lead people into the truth. So there's a passion for leading people to God, but the methodology is just nothing like Christ. It's just interesting because we don't we don't need to beat people head over the head with our way, but that's kind of what we have been taught to do, to evangelize people. Right? If you were if you died tonight, you know where you're going. You know, we just want to scare people into making the decision when really Jesus is just inviting us into a relationship and he's inviting us to invite other people. So I just think it's beautiful what your friends are.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

But you know, there may be a time and a place for that strong evangelism. There, there I I do think there is a time and a place for it. Because, you know, if you're with someone that's that's on the fence, if you're with someone that's open, you know, and they're leaving, and that's your last that may be your last shot with them, yeah. I I might I might shoot my shot and say, you know, it it's a big deal because you could die tomorrow. You know, but so when do we know when to be strong, when to be soft? And again, what's the answer? Holy Spirit, lean in on the yes, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

That's really true. So tell me, as you developed the bridge and you have a podcast, and I'll put the link for that in the show as well, so that my listeners can go and learn things. But what types of people have you had on and do you hope to have on?

SPEAKER_00 9:27

You know, I've had friends on, my friend who introduced me to Christ. I've had two of the pastors from my church on. This week's episode, we dropped one with Caleb Glaze, who is a young leader at my church. And it's so interesting. And what's on his heart is actually to evangelize two Muslims. And that's so exciting to see that in a young leader who is coming up with such um a love for the Lord and and really wanting to serve. But it's the things on my heart, the the disconnect between the Jews and the Christians, and what thoughts, what information, what ideas are gonna help the light bulbs go off, are gonna help make connections. My goal is to put rocks in people's shoes to plant some seeds. Something my pastor said, Derek Englin, in my interview with him, that I thought was really interesting. And I and while I read it, I still didn't fully get it. Is that on Paul's walk where he met the Lord, he didn't immediately go back to Jerusalem and become the Apostle Paul. You know, he he had to have hands laid on him to heal to get his sight back, but then he spent three years studying. He spent three years learning, he spent three years with the Lord getting prepared. That um, you know, we're not necessarily supposed to know everything right away, and and it is a process and it is a learning. But again, we go back to I go back to the the important thing is the foundation, knowing who the Lord is, knowing his role in our life, accepting him, that if we have that foundation, everything's good, but we do have to keep our eyes on him.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

That's so good. Yeah, that is beautiful. So, as a Jewish person, what do you want other people to know? What do you want Christians specifically to know?

SPEAKER_00 11:17

So I had a messianic Seder at my house. We used the Haggadah, the prayer, the book from Rabbi Jason Sobel, and um I had about 22 Gentile friends joining me for the Seder, the Passover dinner, and it was the most beautiful experience. And for me, seeing them love it and being excited to be there and to be a part of it just filled my heart so much. To feel embraced and accepted by Christians is just the most wonderful thing possible because that that truly makes me feel God's love from other people. Because there is sadly so much negativity right now coming at Jews, and there's negativity coming at Jews from Christians. You know, it's one thing for the negativity to be coming from non-Christians, from the angry part of the world right now. But when negativity is coming at Jews from Christians, that is really, really frightening. And and it is a scary place right now. I invited someone to be a guest on my show, and she said she had to think about it. Because of all the anti-Semitism, she's afraid that she might get some negative repercussions for talking out.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

Wow. Wow, yeah. I know we I have some family through my husband's side that have a very Jewish last name, right? Levine. I had no idea, even just having a last name, how it marks you for different things. And it's like, gosh, I just can't my mind can't fathom that. And so I know, you know, you growing up in Brooklyn, you had such an experience with the Catholic Church. I did not grow up in the Catholic Church, and in fact, I was in Bible churches and the Baptist churches, and I've been a part of non-denominational churches, always teaching out of the Bible. I guess I've always been in fellowships from the time I was two, that Christians love Jewish people. This is just, you know what I mean? Like it's just it's such a foreign, like I've seen I've seen it with my eyes, so it's not that I doubt that it's all out there, but it's so foreign to me that how you could be a believer and believe in the infallibility of God's word and come to those conclusions and have all this anti-Semitism. It's just I d I can't literally wrap my mind around how people get there. Um, and I know there is propaganda and stuff like that, but we do have the spirit of God and we do have the word of God, and so if we're consulting those things more than we're consulting social media or news, it just seems like to me, wouldn't wouldn't people go, Oh, I see. You know, like I said, I can't it's just so foreign to me. And then to be a believer, that just brings up whole different things because it's kind of like we've been told in the word that we're going to be persecuted for our faith. Like it's not, you know, Jesus didn't say if you have trouble, he said when you have trouble, you know, like it and he said that we would be persecuted, and so man, it makes me want to challenge believers. If you're really a believer, ask the Lord, like seek the Lord on what he would have you do, because you know, you might lose some followers or you might get engaged in a discussion where somebody disagrees with you or even is threatening to you or whatnot. If we can't stand, do we really have faith? Is our faith real? If we can't stand on the truth of what God's word says in the face of persecution, I don't know. And I guess in America we don't we're comfortable, we're not persecuted very often. But in America, as a Jewish person, that isn't your experience. You've had to deal with persecution.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

And honestly, the stuff that I've had to deal with is nothing compared to what so many people on other parts of the world have to deal with.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

I I think of what's going on in Nigeria today, and it just breaks my heart. I'm I'm I I hope that I would have that kind of faith and conviction that they have. I mean, it it's terrible what's happening to them, but their faith and conviction is such a beautiful thing. But it's I mean, it's heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Yeah, it really is. And I think we're gonna see more and more of that. You know, in the last days, whenever that's coming, we know we're closer to them now than we ever were before. We don't know exactly when all of those things are gonna take place, but we do see the scripture and what it says, and we do see the the things that are happening in our world. So I feel like it's gonna there's coming a time when we will have to choose whether we stand on what we believe or whether we deny what we've said we believed.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Yes. Even the alien stuff, like wow, that that's happening now. And it blows my mind that there are people that would be willing to believe in alien supernatural powers, but not God's supernatural powers.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Right. Such a great deception, yeah. Yeah, and if only, you know, we we want that mind that works in absolutes. We want to know for sure. We want absolute certainty of things, and yet faith is exactly what we can't see, you know. Like we we can't see it, we can't have certainty on different things except for that the Holy Spirit makes it so known.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

And that's the cool thing about legalism is you know, give me these 10, 20 things that I need to do. Let me check the boxes to know that I'll be right. But and and that's just not really, you know, that's not a relationship.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

And it's not faith, it's transactional, it's our traditions and our our checklists, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

A phrase I like to use a lot is there's a big difference between being right and being righteous. Because there's a lot of people that I see arguing scripture and arguing theology, and so convinced that they're right when I think there's so many things we have to hold with an open hand. And while they could be right, they also could be wrong, but there's almost an intensity that some people present their right point of view on scripture and theology with when righteous is chasing God's heart, loving God, and for me, that's the posture that I want to be in.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Yeah, and Paul talks about that. He says, Why are there still fights and quarrels among you? Is it not because when you ask, you're asking with the wrong motives, and that you are still basically merely infants, right? In your faith because you want your way, and it's like that in and of itself tells us we've lost God's way. We've we've lost the heart of God. If it what's most important is that at the end of the day, I'm right. It's at the end of the day, can we have a discussion where we are both honoring and loving and God is lifted high? I may not leave being right, but I may leave thinking and being able to go back to God, who I have that relationship with, and ask him, will you sort this out for me? Will you show me any way that I might be in error? And will you reveal to my brother or sister what you want them to know? And not, will you show him I'm right? Will you just strike down his family until he comes to understand the truth? Why don't we just speak blessing over people and have that conversation with the Lord about will you bless them and invite them into the truth? And will you do the same with me? Because I think I obviously can be wrong on points too. I think there's a lot of that. I think there's a lot of scriptures that again coming from wherever we were raised, whatever faith we grew up in, we're going to have a slant on how we read that. But the word of God is a living and active word, and so he's gonna speak to us, and it's like you said, now one way and now another. Like he's gonna show us this verse, and right now, for where I am in my life, it's gonna mean this thing to me, but he can show me that verse in two years, I'm in a totally different place, and it means something totally different, even though it's still totally the same. And that's just the beauty of the spirit in it. Yes. So as we wrap up, I want to know is there is there anything else that you want to share, like that's just burning in your heart to share about your story or about being Jewish in this age, in this world?

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Well, I know for me, I've gotten involved with a couple of the Jewish outreach organizations that are doing this kind of work and doing it longer than I have, and in a wider spread. And I would invite Christians to look at that. Check out my podcast, but but look at the others Jewish Voice, Light of Messiah, um, First Fruits of Zion. There's a lot of other messianic organizations. So, Christians, if they have questions, ask, ask them please. Reach out to Jewish people, ask them questions because we love sharing. Everybody loves sharing, everybody loves feeling that people care about them and want to know more about them and want to connect. But Jewish people emotionally are going through a difficult time right now because there is a lot of anti-Semitism, and it is terrifying to think that even more and more negative things can be happening. I look at what happened in Brooklyn. There was they were protesting in Brooklyn the other night in a neighborhood that I've I've walked those streets many times in my life, and to think that that's going on and that they may that they might start intimidating people near where I live at some point. That that's a terrifying, terrifying thought. Though again, like you said, Paul warned us, well, Jesus warned us, we know that this is coming. So while it's terrifying, I can also sit in, okay, the Lord is coming. I'm I'm safe in the Lord. So trying to, you know, always always manage that and always balance with that. But uh my my prayer is that more Christians will reach out to more Jews and more Jews will have their hearts softened and opened to that hand that's reached out to them.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Yeah, that's beautiful. That's beautiful. Well, I really do appreciate you being on the show today. I appreciate this time with you and just how you have shared from your heart, and I love your story. It just from beginning to End. I mean, where we are right now today, just the way the Holy Spirit is using you, working in you, teaching you, and it's a beautiful thing to see His revelation, right, in the heart of someone who has not only just a love for the Jewish community in your heart, but you are part of that Jewish community, and that's part of your heritage. And it's just it's absolutely beautiful to be sharing these days with you and partnering with you to help bring others. Let's connect them, you know, let's get people connected and in love and truth, and then let Jesus work out all the details. Yes. Yeah. Well, thank you for your time. I so appreciate you, Joyce.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

All right, guys, I hope you've enjoyed this. It's been such a sweet time with Joyce today. And if you have questions, I know she would love to answer them for you. And so I'm gonna get all of that contact information and put it in the show notes. I'm gonna drop a link for her podcast as well if you want to hear the interviews she's already had, and then the ones that are yet to come. And I just know it's gonna be enlightening. You're gonna learn things. I know I learned a lot today, even just about growing up in synagogue. Like that's there's just things that I had no idea. So I'm just thankful you were here with me to experience it, and I pray the Lord just goes before and behind you this week and hints you in. We'll see you next week.