Mike Wysong: Inside the Main Street Pharmacy Access Act

In this episode, Kevin Houlihan welcomes back Mike Wysong, CEO of CARE Pharmacies, for a conversation on pharmacy access, federal legislation, and the evolving role of pharmacists under Medicare. Mike shares the story behind his recent commencement speech and honorary doctorate before diving into the Main Street Pharmacy Access Act, its progress through Congress, and what continued advocacy could mean for independent pharmacies, patients, and care delivery across the country.

Learn how to be reimbursement-ready on day 1 for the Main Street Pharmacy Access Act at our knowledge hub for pharmacy industry professionals: https://workflowservices.com/main-street-pharmacy-access-act

Transcript

Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Hey everyone, welcome back to the ECAPS Watch podcast. Actually, this, I don't know, we're on maybe a transition period here. Um, we might be changing the name along with some legislation name change. So I'm Kevin Hoolahan, CEO of Workflow Services. I'm super excited today to have back as a return guest on the podcast, Mike Weisong. Mike is the chief executive officer of Care Pharmacy Cooperative, one of the largest independent pharmacy groups in the US with about 170 locations nationwide. And he's also very importantly a respected um voice in pharmacy and worth noting was the NACDS chair for the 2023-2024 term and remains super engaged with NACDS. So, Mike, excited to talk to you again. Thanks for coming back. There is tons happening in the news, and I think you're the perfect person to be talking to us today with the advancement through the House Committee last week. But you're one of the more interesting guys I know, and I love listening to your stories, Mike. So before we even dive into that, on the personal front, I have been spending some time at high school graduation parties for family friends. So it's graduation season, and I know you've been out having some graduation escapades. So I'd love to hear what's going on with you.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Hey Kevin,

Commencement Story

SPEAKER_01 1:17

I appreciate that. I appreciate you also having me back here this morning. Uh I I laugh. The Weissongs have been through four college graduations, and uh I finally had an opportunity uh to be the commencement speaker, I guess two weeks ago at uh Mount St. Mary's College here in Emmitsburg, Maryland. So it was quite an honor.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

So, what is your connection to the college, and why in the world are they having you do the commencement?

SPEAKER_01 1:42

I know, right? Who would have me come in and do uh do a speech? So uh the story's actually quite humorous. I I start back at my time at uh VMI when I was a biology major. I picked biology because it didn't have a foreign language requirement. I just didn't know that organic chemistry was a foreign language. And so the colonel, uh, the worse he treated you, the the the more he liked you, and he treated me pretty tough. So he calls me into his office one day. He goes, Mike, you're you're never gonna be a doctor. You got to pass organic chemistry as a prereq uh for med school, which you got to go to to be a doctor. So uh I know you're working hard here, so I'm gonna graduate you, but promise me when you graduate, you never go into health care. So, of course, Kevin, I graduate. Uh I had aspirations of going into the military, but Desert Storm was winding down, so there was nowhere to go. So I took the first job I could get, which was at Baxter Healthcare and you know, in medical surgical. Uh, so after a decade and a half, I finally became the CEO of care pharmacies. And the colonel writes me a handwritten note and says, Mike, I'm super proud of you, but you didn't keep your promise, and you're still never going to be a doctor. So I laughed. So, of course, you know, when you give the commencement address, they give you an honorary doctorate degree. So it only took 33 years uh to be a doctor. So that's the long and the short of the story. Um, but the reason I was asked, uh, the whisongs every summer go on vacation. And in 2023, we were down on the shores of Carolina Beach. And on the third day, I have this, you know, 22-year-old kid sitting next to me, and I go, Hey, why

Elos Origin

SPEAKER_01 3:19

are you here? You've been sitting next to me for like three straight days. And he said, Mike, I finally just worked up the courage to ask you. I've got an idea and a pitch I want to run by you. I go, All right, well, let me hear it.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

He goes, Your kid's friends.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

That's yeah, it was one of the kids' friends who I I surmise had a had a you know a dating interest in one of our daughters. So, you know, pitching me was uh more important than spending time with the prospective girlfriend. But anyway, uh he goes, you know, I'm a soccer player at Mount St. Mary's College up in Emmitsburg, which I I knew where it was. And he goes, I I I want to invent insoles that heat and cool. So, okay, well, that's a pretty cool idea. He goes, Can I give you the pitch? So he gives me the pitch. I'm like, your pitch is terrible. You know, the concept of the product has some legs, but there's a lot of work that needs to be done in order to make that happen. So uh I said, We'll get together after the vacation and we'll figure it out. So the kid showed up at my house every other week for a year and a half and was able to get the patent. And the name of the company is Elos, which is soul spelled backwards. Okay, I like it. And so I said to him, I go, Well, who's on the side of your business school? What's the name of the gentleman on the side of the business school? And he goes, Well, it's the Palmieri Center of Entrepreneurship. And of course, it's a small industry, and so I knew Paul, and so we were able to kind of circle around the opportunity, and the product became available in distribution. So, from the concept of getting the patent to to bringing it into being, so that's pretty cool. And then shortly after that, I was at the Chip event, and my good friend Brooks Powell and his wife Shelby won the new product of you know consumer health with a digital campaign under five million bucks. And he came to the table and I hugged Brooks. I said, I can't tell you how proud I am of you. But Brooks, you can't keep coming to the shows with your Hawaiian polo shirt on and your you know fancy colored shoes. And I go, I'm gonna fly down to Texas,

LinkedIn Mentorship

SPEAKER_01 5:20

I'm gonna buy you a custom-made suit because I love custom-made suits, and every time you win, you'll know that I love you and your personal brand will be in line with your professional brand. So he was appreciative of that. And he goes, Hey Mike, while we're being nice to each other, can I tell you something? I go, Yeah. He goes, You know, you know, a lot of people in our industry, but you could leverage some of the social media platforms like LinkedIn to really connect back to tell some of your stories and to pull the next group of providers through. I said, All right, Brooks, I'll let you mentor me on LinkedIn. So, of course, you know, I have no idea what to post on LinkedIn. That's not in my general expertise. And so the first post I put together is a terrible post. And Brooks responds with D minus too long. So on about the 12th version, I I linked in and sent the story about me meeting Thunwan Garcia on the Weissong vacation, and our good friend Glenn Nurmoyle, the CEO and you know, prime force behind New Fabrics, uh, which is another large consumer product company, read that post and ultimately acquired ELOS.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

And so Mount St. Mary's had their first patent and exit event in the history of the Palmer Center of Entrepreneurship. And so they said, all right, Mike, to celebrate, we want you to be the commencement speaker, uh, and we're gonna honor you with an honorary doctorate degree. So quite a full circle moment for me on on multiple fronts.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

I

Full Circle

SPEAKER_00 6:50

mean, so awesome. Yeah, you're you're certainly a renaissance man, and I think it speaks to a lot of lives that you, I don't know, supported or touched or influenced in a positive way. Um, so awesome. Like, you know, very, I don't know, I it admirable, uh, you know, I uh inspirational for me personally.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Well, well, I appreciate that. The truth is we have a pretty special industry. We have a lot of really good people trying to serve their customers, and I always laugh. It's always the opposite of what you think. I I I I was having this conversation with Dan Mack, it's paradox theory where you know sometimes in an attempt to be nice to other people, you get way more out of it than what you would what you were putting into it. And so, you know, I ended up getting a doctorate degree, I ended up getting mentored by you know two young kids that I was trying to mentor, and I think I um ended up getting way more at all at than they did.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

But yeah, it's kind of funny how it works. So, what

Speech Theme

SPEAKER_00 7:46

was I I want to one more question about the speech. Was there a sentiment that you tried to leave the audience or the graduates with?

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Yeah, so we you know, uh Mount St. Mary's is the second oldest Catholic institution in the country, right behind the lesser-known one down in DC called Georgetown. I don't know, I haven't heard of that. If you've ever heard of that, so um, I you know, I love art, and so I really wanted to do a metaphor between um the religious theme of father, son, and the holy spirit. Uh, but I did it under the premise of faith, responsibility, and perseverance. And as painters, if we paint with faith, responsibility, and perseverance, then there's opportunity all around. And usually you can paint something really beautiful if you use those three primary colors. And then if you look for opportunity, that's usually a suitable frame. So I think it was well received. It was a nice way of making the point without making it a sermon.

Legislative Update

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Yeah. Well, I'm gonna take that, and and I think we've actually got a reasonable segue thinking about faith, responsibility, and perseverance. Let's talk about this legislation that we've been focused on, which is the expanded um recognition of pharmacists under the eyes of Medicare. And I think we've had faith that it can happen. We feel it's the responsible thing to do, and we're going to see it through. The big news last week was that it um advanced through the House committee that held it through a through a hearing. And I know that you've been super engaged and we connected after that happened, and you said that um you you know you've been involved and what's been going on, but was more was going to be happening this week. And I think you said you were you spent some time in DC earlier this week. So I'd love to start with uh just a quick rundown of what the advancement last week means, what you think comes next, what else you're hearing, what happened this week, what should we be looking for?

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Yeah, it it's it's really interesting. You and I spoke back at the beginning of the year um as all of this was kind of taking shape. And I I made mention in my commencement speech about you know potential. And as a kid, at some point in time and as a parent, you hope you don't refer to it as potential anymore because it's actually become a thing. Right. And I think uh, you know, eCAPS is certainly on its way to being what it could and should be. Um, so there's been some pretty good progress made over those last couple of months. You saw that, I think it was on the 21st when uh Jason Smith, the chair of the Ways and Means Committee, was able to put that through and get it through. So this thing is on its way uh to being something. And so I'm pragmatically optimistic that as this thing continues to sh, you know, to to take life, that it's gonna end up in a place that's favorable for the people that would benefit most from it. So I I think we're headed in the right place. I think the the the biggest state of affairs from the last time we talked to today is that there's been real progress made on that, which I'm I'm happy for.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Yeah. So just in terms of, you know, this is a I feel like we're back in like uh elementary school, but how these things turn into act like how the law, the process of lawmaking works. So the Ways and Means Committee in the House, I think there's one more committee that it needs to go through in the House, and then it would go to the House floor for a vote. Can you talk a little bit about what do I have that right? How long and when would those happen? How would they happen?

Bill Process

SPEAKER_01 11:10

You have that exactly right. I mean, if you if you look at what happened, I I was actually on a call with with Congressman Smith, you know, a couple weeks ago, um, just kind of talking through some of the the possibilities on that. Obviously, you know, they changed the name of the bill to be more reflective, I think, and more impactful. Candidly, ECAPS is yeah, you know, difficult for folks that maybe aren't operating in the space to remember what that anachronym is. So changing that to the you know, Main Street Pharmacy Access Act, I think is a little more demonstrative and representative of the importance that pharmacy plays in in small town rural, you know, rural towns from an access perspective and a capabilities perspective. Um that will then have to go through uh the governance committee, you know, the um um the next committee will have to pick that up and and pass it through. My sense is, Kevin, that there's there's that's likely gonna happen. Right. I think there's great support uh through the two committees that will ultimately have to oversee that before it goes to the House committee and then ultimately to the Senate. Okay. So I think I think we're we're headed in the right direction. And I don't see, from my perspective, a lot of detractors from it. I don't think that they're this isn't one of those that's got a a lot of headwind to it, which I think is a good thing. There's a lot of it.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Yeah, and I what you know, I was able to watch the hearing on it um on YouTube, which is cool. And I I haven't done a ton of that in my life, and so it was interesting to hear, and interesting to hear those messages. And I think, you know, folks in the room were sort of learning in real time and expressing some opinions. And there was a little bit of like, well, there are things that in the future that I worry about, but I think the way that this bill is constructed, those worries are sort of addressed, and so I don't have to worry about you know what's what's sitting in front of us here. So I thought that was great. Um what I know it's impossible to predict, and you know, in in any sort of crystal ball you have, what do you think on when might the next committee take it up and timelines on things?

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Well, if you look at it, this thing would have to get through by the end of the year. Obviously, the the the big question mark of the midterm elections, which isn't a significant amount of uncertainty there in terms of what you know would happen, but this thing would have to get in and get passed, I think, by the second or third of January, uh, and until you had the you know, basically start this thing over. So I think there is some time. Um, I think there's some work left to do on the outside of this in terms of continuing to support it from a consumer perspective and a potential, you know, um, you know, just on the outside for people that are looking at it that would benefit from it. Um, I think we have a lot of work left to do to continue to support it. Um, but to me, uh this is probably gonna be more okay, what does this legislation get attached to? Um can both sides of the political aisle come to an agreement that this is legislation that that that should be passed before the year expires. So I can't tell you. Uh I've been a part of other legislation that I go, man, this stuff's gonna go through and then something derails it or something happens at the last minute. But for where this is, I'm pragmatically optimistic. I think we're doing all the right things. Um, I know the the trade associations have uh have a keen interest in making sure that this gets passed and is is done in a way that's commensurate with the people again that would benefit from these services and codifying it. So yeah, I I think for where we are, the progress is positive and I feel pretty good about

Pharmacy Access

SPEAKER_01 14:40

it.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Well, one thing that I really like, I agree that the name change uh is just a little bit more, I don't know, um intuitive for people or explains a little bit more what's going on. I do like that there's access in there, and I think that that was an interesting thing um that came up that this is really not about um some brand brand new thing that farm, who knows if pharmacies can do it. This is a thing that's tried and true and proven for for many, many years, and it's just about giving more people access to this um kind of care. And so I like that part of it, and I like that part of the the conversation in the room last week.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

Yeah, and I do too. I don't I don't I don't think that the ask here is a is a you know is an overreaching ask um in the states that you could do this. I think the real benefit as providers it was is it would give us some real world data and some real world statistics to be able to to prove the impact that pharmacy can have and address some of these access issues simultaneously. And I think that's a really important thing uh for our profession and and obviously for the senior citizens that would benefit from the accessibility.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Yeah, yeah. So you were in DC this week.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Any more that you can share about what's going on there or things that you're hearing, or you know, I think there's I think there's a heightened sense amongst the groups there that this is this is important to to pharmacy. It's important to you know the folks that again would benefit from these services. I don't think that you know that the that the the ask is an overreaching ask. I think it's uh another demonstration of pharmacy's capacity and capability to to fill a gap of care here and to formalize that with a with a payment structure.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

Yeah. I and I think that's it. Like it is important to pharmacy, but I what I am encouraged by is a little bit more broad recognition, it seems, that it's more important to care delivery for the folks in the country, right? Forget about pharmacy or doctor, whatever, like more access to care. And the pharmacy is just in such an amazing place to be able to help with that care problem. And so, man, let's just like I don't know, take the restraints off and let this thing roll. You know what I mean? Like, I'm excited about that part of it. I think, I think you have that exactly right.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

And and and I think, you know, just from my vantage point, having talked to lots and lots of people, both on the political side of this, from the trade association, from the from the retailers, that there's there is a unilateral agreement that that that that should happen, that there's no real reason that this legislation should be kept up from being enacted.

Advocacy Next Steps

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Yeah. Um well, it's one of those things that continues to have really strong bipartisan support, which is exciting and I think promising and encouraging. What should our listeners and viewers do? What can I do?

SPEAKER_01 17:28

I would say continue to stay active. Uh, you know, for folks in the states that that this once enacted would benefit. I think hearing from those potential folks is is super important in terms of the Congress people that preside over those areas. Uh, so I think now is the time to make sure that the voices are heard in the areas of opportunity. That's that's what I would do. And I could tell you as the CEO of CARE, we're gonna be doing everything we can so that the people that represent the geographies where our stores are located know that we're accessible and ready to continue to do that. Yeah. Um, and then our involvement at NACDS and NCPA and some of the other trade associations that we're doing everything we can to bolster those initiatives as well.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Yeah. I think it's really important. Yeah, it's it is really important. And I feel like we're close and everyone, there's a there's a growing understanding of the value here and a growing understanding understanding that this is just like a win across the board. Um, so it feels like the time, like, you know, I'm I also am excited. I'm excited to hear that you're cautiously and optimistic, um, but I think also realistically optimistic. Um, and so I hope, you know, I uh thanks for coming back on. I hope we're doing it again really soon when it gets to the next phase. That's that's what I was gonna say to you.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

What you and I spoke at the beginning of the year, and I think we've made some real progress since then. And my hope is the next time we we we speak again, we'll look back at this one and go, all right, we're decidedly further along through this process out in the house and out in the Senate. Yeah. And I and I think it's important to note, I think you've got support there, right? So all the way up the chain of command, the real question is is all right, can we get this thing through without getting it tied to something else or getting derailed in the process with all the things that are going on down in the nation's capital?

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Yeah, exactly. Awesome. Well, Mike, thanks for coming back and joining. I hope that we'll see you again here very soon as as um this process continues to advance. But thanks for sharing your story in the beginning. We're at the beginning of the summer. Hope you have a great one planned out ahead. Uh, and it's great to have you back as a guest.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

It's always an honor to be on your podcast here. And uh it was cool to be a be to be able to be a doctor on this one.

unknown 19:41

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Dr. Weisong, thanks again. All interviewers, we'll talk to you next time on the next episode. Thanks, Kevin Oolan. Thanks.