SWHT The Jeffrey Epstein case with Attorney Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.

This interview with Anne P. Mitchell, an attorney, law professor and law dean emeritus, about her involvement in researching and publishing documents related to Jeffrey Epstein. Mitchell describes how she began sharing legal analysis on social media to combat misinformation and subsequently focused on Epstein-related materials as public interest and released files grew.

How Mitchell Became Involved

Mitchell began posting plain-English legal explanations during early 2025 to counter widespread misinformation. As Epstein-related materials were publicly released, she collected, preserved, and analyzed many documents, storing them privately to prevent loss when the Department of Justice retracted items. Her work included locating unredacted police reports and victim statements from the early Florida investigation and selectively publishing redacted versions for public review.

Findings from the Files

• Victim statements and police reports: Mitchell found several sworn victim testimonies and released them with victim names redacted but not names of alleged facilitators.
• Recruitment pattern: She describes Epstein’s operation functioning like a multi-level marketing (MLM) system—recruiters were paid to bring friends, and recruits were also paid to participate.
• Sexual abuse details: Documents and testimony indicate a pattern where girls were instructed to claim they were 18, and that Epstein would sometimes self-gratify, attempt to touch victims, or use devices during massages.
• Wider elite network: Mitchell uncovered and transcribed a three-hour recorded dinner involving Epstein and prominent figures discussing geopolitics and influence, which she argues demonstrates that Epstein operated within a network of powerful people whose actions shaped political and economic outcomes.

On Evidence, Prosecutions and “Justice”

Mitchell emphasizes the legal realities: criminal convictions generally require strong evidence, and victim testimony alone is often difficult to use for criminal prosecutions due to evidentiary and confrontation rights. Civil lawsuits and financial or other non-criminal exposures (bankruptcy, career fallout, public disgrace) may be the more feasible routes to hold powerful people accountable. She notes ongoing civil suits and identified persons of interest tied to Epstein properties, such as Zorro Ranch, and stresses that “justice” varies by victims’ perspectives.

Redactions, Leaks and Missing Materials

Mass redaction in released files was partially due to automated, overbroad redaction tools and the sheer volume of documents. Some redactions may be deliberate to protect sensitive names; others likely result from incompetence or technological limitations. Mitchell mentions that some videos and hard drives allegedly containing material have not been publicly located or released.

Skepticism Toward Extreme Conspiracy Theories

Mitchell expresses skepticism about highly sensational claims—such as ritualistic murder or cannibalism—saying such allegations in isolation do not pass a credibility “sniff test” unless supported by corroborating evidence in context.

On Notable Names, Photos and AI Concerns

Many people appeared in social contexts with Epstein (private jets, island gatherings), but presence alone does not mean criminal participation. Mitchell warns about photo manipulation (AI) and stresses that investigators hold the underlying evidence. She differentiates between casual social ties and continued association after Epstein’s criminal conviction, the latter of which raises ethical concerns.

Epstein’s Death and Theories

Mitchell remains uncertain whether Epstein’s death was suicide or foul play. She recounts documents suggesting Epstein sought plausible deniability—having victims instructed to claim they were adults—and discusses the theory that Epstein functioned as an asset or intermediary for other powerful actors. She notes the possibility that some known names were withheld to preserve intelligence or for leverage.

Outreach and Publications

Mitchell built a large online following and publishes a newsletter, Notes from the Front, where she provides legal analysis and source documents; a paid tier offers deeper access to source files. She aims to inform the public amid confusion and misinformation.

Outlook

Mitchell predicts that the full scope of Epstein-related activity may take decades to become clear. She believes financial exposure, legal battles, civil suits, and public accountability will be principal mechanisms to hold associates accountable, even if many perpetrators avoid lengthy criminal sentences. She underscores that victims’ needs and definitions of justice should guide responses.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:16

Welcome back to the Secret World of Human Trafficking. I'm your host, David J. Story, and I'm also the author of the Omega book series. This interview features Annie P. Mitchell, an attorney, law professor, and about her involvement in the researching and publishing documents related to the Jeffrey Epstein case. Well, I want to welcome Annie Mitchell to our show today. And Annie, why don't you go ahead and give us a little background on yourself and and how you got involved in in uh the Epstein file?

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Sure. Uh first of all, thank you for having me, David. Uh it's a real pleasure. I am an attorney. I am a law professor and law dean emeritus. And how I got involved is almost by accident. Uh I uh in January of 2025, right when Trump too started, I noticed there was just this massive amount of misinformation going on around what the administration was doing, uh, the, you know, the ICE actions. And, you know, it was bad enough. The truth and the facts are bad enough. It didn't need misinformation to sort of whip people into an hysteria. And so I started just seeing this need for someone with my background who understood what was going on in the courts and the legal actions to explain in plain English, you know, the facts and to dispel the misinformation. And because you need, you know, people need knowledge if they are going to try to fight whatever is going on, right? It's to their benefit to have people scared and confused and discombobulated because a confused populace is a weak populace, right? There is strength in knowledge and facts. So, anyway, I started posting on social media and I gained quite a following because people are hungry for that. They they really want to know the reality. And at the same time, the stories about Epstein and the actions and the victims coming forward were becoming also more, uh, the public was becoming more aware of them. And they started asking me, you know, well, what about this? And what about this lawsuit against this Epstein, you know, against Maxwell? And so I sort of just fell into also being someone that people came to for Epstein information. And in the context of that, you know, I started doing research. And when the files dropped, the first thing I did was I grabbed every file that was dropped and immediately stored it away in a private Dropbox because I knew that the DOJ would start pulling stuff back. And they did. Excuse me. And so that of course got me even more involved because now I was handling the files and I was seeing what was in the files, and uh that basically is how I got involved with the Epstein stuff.

SPEAKER_03 3:39

I'm sure you've uh seen a lot of stuff in those files that uh was were shocking.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

I have.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Um a lot of what I do is looking at the legal aspect. So um fortunately, I'm not always seeing you know, I'm I'm seeing a lot of victim statements, and in fact, I have put out a series of I actually found police reports, the testimony of several of the victims that were unredacted and were produced during the police investigation, during the first investigation that led up to his first arrest in Florida. And so I I've been very I mean, it sounds weird to say fortunate, but I've been um fortunate in as much as having access to that information and finding these things and then putting them out for the public. And so, for example, with those, uh there were I think six to seven different girls slash women who were giving uh sworn testimony to the police. And I had all of those and I released them, redacted, I redacted the names of the victims because, you know, that's what you do. Uh, but I did not redact any, like I didn't redact Epstein's name, I didn't redact Sarah Callan's name, um, you know, I didn't redact any of that, and I released them one at a time because it was showing people what this actually was doing was the police building their case to ultimately get the warrant, which I also released, uh, to basically do a sting on Epstein. So those are the kinds of things that I found and have had access to that the general public may not have. So that's how I got involved. I just started doing that sort of thing. Because, as you well know, I'm sure, once you start looking into something like this, you can't walk away from it. You know, once you know, then you have to act.

SPEAKER_03 6:12

Exactly. Uh you mentioned that you you have a following and all of that. Uh you have a podcast or a show that you do.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

So what I started doing, uh you know, originally I was just posting uh primarily on Facebook, posting these posts explaining to people the reality of what was going on. Again, not just with Epstein, but you know, for lawsuits that were happening, you know, a lot of things uh of the misinformation out there regard, you know, with regard to all of it, is that, and even now, you know, well, the courts don't matter because they're just ignoring court orders. The administration, you know, doesn't follow court orders. Well, that's actually not true. It turns out that other than a handful of cases in the very beginning, a handful of immigration cases, the administration overwhelmingly is following all the court orders. Now they appeal them, and sometimes the orders get stayed. That means they get paused while the appeal is happening. So that may seem like they're not following the court order, but they actually are following them. And and so again, I start, you know, and then I would explain what was going on in a given lawsuit, because again, the misinformation, and to be clear, it serves the purpose of both fringe sides, if you will, you know, the right and the left, whatever you want to call them, they both are guilty of putting out uh on the fringe of putting out misinformation because the same misinformation serves the purpose for both of them, which is keeping the populace confused, keeping the populace kind of in the dark, keeping them whipped up into a, you know, a sky is falling, hysteria, uh, because again, then then they're not strong. They're, you know, they can't really come together and and act. Um so yeah, I just I started putting out those posts explaining the reality, the facts, and the truth. And I just people started coming to me. And then I I was, you know, I'm on threads as well, and I have like 300,000 followers there. And eventually posting this, I was like, you know, I just need to put out a publication. So I started something that I call Notes from the Front, which is from the front lines of the legal battle to save the soul of our democracy. Uh, and I published that on Substack. That would that answer your question?

SPEAKER_03 8:55

Yes. Okay. How do uh our listeners uh find you?

SPEAKER_00 9:01

The easiest way to find me is to go to notesfromthefront. So it's not.com, it's dot f yi. Notesfrom the front dot f yi. And it'll take them there. Thank you for asking that.

SPEAKER_03 9:16

No, no problem. I'll put that uh in the notes and everything like you know later on. Uh you mentioned you know when we first communicated about uh the underage girls more of a multi-level marketing. I mean, it's that was a little confusing to me.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

What what can you clarify that what absolutely and in fact that that became crystal clear to me during my uh investigation into those police statements that I told you about. Basically, so do you remember Avon or Tupperware? And you know how like the Avon lady or or Tupperware, and actually I sold Tupperware when I was a very young uh single mother. You know, you go and you do these parties and you recruit new Tupperware ladies. Or Avon, right? The the when you when as an Avon lady, you bring in more Avon ladies, you get a cut and you get you know increased stature. In the case of Tupperware, if you bring in enough, you get a car, which I did. So maybe that's why I recognized it as an MLM, which stands for multi-level marketing, because with Epstein, he had certain girls who would go out and bring their friends in to give him massages. And the girls who recruited more girls were paid two to three hundred dollars for each girl they brought. And the girl they brought was also paid two to three hundred dollars every time.

SPEAKER_03 11:14

So that's how he grew grew his flock or whatever his Yeah, that's exactly how it happened.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Is that and and in these witness statements, you can see, you know, I'll uh let me call so the primary recruiter in that particular group, let's call her Susan, which is not her real name, in every single other statement, you know, and the police would say, Well, you know, how did you end up going to Epstein's? And the person would say, Well, Susan came up to me, you know, Susan and I are friends, we're in the same friend group, and she asked me, Hey, do you want to earn $200? All you have to do is massage this guy. Give this guy a massage. And that is exactly how it happened. And so Susan would bring, let's say, Mary to Epstein's house, and Susan would get paid two or three hundred dollars for bringing Mary, and then Mary would also get paid two or three hundred dollars.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

When you say his house, are you talking about the one in St.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

James or the one in um in Florida?

SPEAKER_03 12:29

Florida.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Right. So I I I I at one point I said to someone that it was kind of like uh Sweet Valley High, which was a young adult series of books a long time ago, or maybe the Babysitters Club, only it was a very perverse one, right? They all went to the same high school, they were all in the same clique in this high school. And so all of those friends is what, you know, from whom Susan drew, you know, not everyone wanted to do it, but you know, I mean, when you're in high school, especially back then, this was, you know, the early 2000s, you know, $200 in cash, that's pretty hard to pass up.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

You know, and Susan would tell teenager, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Yeah, and Susan would tell them, you know, you you know, you don't have to take your clothes off. He might ask you to do it, but if you just say no, he won't push you. And in fact, uh for most of those victim testimonies, that turned out to be their testimony. That he would, you know, say, you know, why don't you get more comfortable, take your clothes off or or whatever. And if they said no, he didn't push it. But for some of them, he still, you know, he still tried to touch them, like through their clothes, or tried to cajole them to take their clothes off. Um But anyway, that so that's how that worked. That's and to me, that's multi-level marketing. That's you know, you you get you get recruited, and then you get incentivized to recruit more people.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 14:13

What was his end game to do that? I mean, just to get a massage, I'm sure he had other ideas for the girls.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

There is credible evidence that he was sharing some of the girls with his friends. The end game for him personally was I mean, it's hard to get inside his head, of course, but the evidence is that he would he'd always start on his belly, right? The girl he so uh Sarah Kellen was one of his assistants, and she would bring the girl up to the massage room, and he would then come in wearing a towel around his waist, and he would lay down face down on the massage table, and you know, he would tell the girl, you know, which lotion to use and, you know, work on his calves or whatever. But the evidence also shows that sometimes he would then turn over and he would self-gratify while the girl was performing the massage. Uh other times he would also attempt to touch the girl or use a vibrator on the girl again while he was self-gratifying. And the girls were told if he asks you how old you are, say you are 18. Now, interestingly, uh some of some of the files that I have found, and these are files that no one has seen, they are not redacted uh that I've been able to find. Some of them include his notes to either himself or his attorneys about things that he thought should be brought up during his trial or pretrial. And one of the interesting notes was that the girls being told that if he asks, they should say he was that they're 18. He said proves that he didn't want anything to do with underage girls because he wanted to be told they were 18. Of course, that doesn't hold water because we all know that he was having them be recruited from a high school.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

But it was an interest it it was an interesting note to see. You said uh in our prior uh conversation about uh victims wasn't the main story, they were like a side hustle.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

So one of the other things I've found, and this is all up on my uh, you know, in the posts at the notes from the front site, which I should add is completely free to subscribe. There is a paid version, and what that gets you is I include all the source documents. But the you know, people don't need to sign up for that, they can just sign up for the articles and you know, um, and so one of the things that I found was a three-hour audio, a secret recording of a three-hour dinner with Epstein, Ehud Barak, who at the time was the sitting defense minister of Israel, and Larry Summers, who had been the Secretary of the Treasury, and during this secret conversation and the secret recording of it, girls were never mentioned at all. What was mentioned and what this three-hour recording, which I transcribed and sent the transcription to, you know, through through notes from the front, and also we did a uh a live broadcast with the investigative journalist Zev Shalev, and we together did a recording uh having to do with this. What they were talking about is how, and it makes so clear that's what these people are doing and still doing, how they are manipulating world economies, manipulating the governments of countries around the world, uh, defense mechanisms. These are people who are pulling, holding the strings. They're like the puppeteers, and these countries and the governments of these countries are the puppets. That's the real story. That's the real reality of what uh what some people now call the Epstein class, but you know, the global elites are doing behind closed doors. The girls, the victims of this of trafficking is a it's very real. But it's not the big story about what is happening behind the closed doors among these people who are making decisions, who are pulling the strings politically, and are still doing it. You know, Epstein So he was using this, the girls, to get leverage over these leaders and important people to I think that the I don't know that he was using them specifically to get the leverage, but it was certainly a happy outcome that he had that leverage. The the current thinking is that so Glenn Maxwell her father, Robert Maxwell, was notorious for being involved in a lot of fraud, a lot of um he he's thought to have been a double, maybe even a triple agent, so for Russia, Israel, and the UK. And it is thought, and he died in a not at all suspicious accident where he fell off his yacht.

SPEAKER_03 21:12

That happens every day.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

It really does. And it is thought by people in the know, and I think it's probably accurate, that Glenn Maxwell basically took over Daddy's operations. And she partnered with or groomed Epstein, and that is how Epstein came to be involved in these various dealings, both with the girls and these other things. And I want to point out that I know this all sounds like crazy conspiracy theory, and I thought the same thing uh in the beginning, um, but there are a lot of things. Theories, and one of them is probably true. And this seems like the one that is most likely to be true. And I want to point out that during that secret dinner, you have the sitting Minister of Defense of Israel, also the current, the former Prime Minister of Israel, he was both, sharing with Epstein a lot of confidential information, which means that at very least, he considered Epstein an asset. Or he would not have been there sharing these things that he's sharing during this dinner. Which leads to Epstein's death. And what I mean by that is if you are an asset for an agency or government of a country, you pretty much know that if you get caught, you are going to either get taken out or you take yourself out.

SPEAKER_03 23:06

What do you think happened? Did he take himself out, or do you think he was taken out?

SPEAKER_00 23:11

I don't know, but I am reasonably confident there's, of course, the theories that he's still alive walking around somewhere. And I want to point out that to that, some of the people with some of the conspiracy theories point to the quote-unquote fact that supposedly Epstein did not have a prostate, and during the autopsy, you know, there was a prostate. But we know from many of the victims' statements that when vict when Epstein would flip over on the massage table and pleasure himself, number one, he was able to become excited. And number two, he would need to clean himself up afterwards. And men without a prostate, generally speaking, do not are not able to do that, let alone come to completion. So he had a prostate. Either that or he was very unusual in having that ability. And I apologize. I'm trying to be very delicate.

SPEAKER_03 24:26

That's fine. Well, you know, we know he's very unusual in many different ways.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

Well, that's true. That is true. That's true.

SPEAKER_03 24:35

Well, what you mentioned something about uh justice for victims. What what does that actually mean?

SPEAKER_00 24:44

So a lot of people, rightly so, are you know demand justice for the victims. But I think they don't have any idea what they really mean. And when challenged, they they you know, they they don't really know. It's become a trope. But if you understand the legal system, probably quote unquote justice for the victims is very different than if they stop and think a minute, what these people mean when they say that. You know, a large number of the victims have received money from the victims compensation fund. What else, you know, that our legal system that's you know, our lit our the way our legal system is set up is that money money is the compensation. And so I just I challenge people to really think about what they mean when they say justice for the victims. Now, some people say, well, people need to be arrested. Well, the primary perpetrators were arrested. That's Glenn Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein. Now, the people that the victims say raped them, choked them, who are still alive, the the problem with having them arrested is you need actual evidence. This is one of the reasons that that trafficking is so difficult to prosecute, because you need actual evidence. Now, if you have the evidence of someone taking someone, you know, underage across state lines, that is evidence.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

But you have to have that evidence, and victim testimony alone isn't going to get you usually to a criminal uh conclusion of to a conviction.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

Uh, it might, but it it's very hard to do. Now, just very recently, some of the victims filed a lawsuit against Wexner. And I think that is really going to be the way to go. If the victims feel that they they have not received justice otherwise, then filing lawsuits against their abusers, civil lawsuits, is the way to go. But again, it requires victim testimony. It requires them to get on the stand. It requires that because in our country, the accused has a right to confront their accuser. And again, this is one of the reasons that trafficking and sex crimes in general are so under-reported and so underprosecuted. Because the perpetrators know that the victim doesn't want to get up and talk about that. You know, it's very humiliating, it's very traumatic. So all of that needs to come into the thought process when someone says justice for the victims.

SPEAKER_03 28:22

I know that's a a lot of talk out there about why there's no arrest. You know, people claiming all these, you know, these uh reports about you know ledgers, about all these famous and important people flying on his jet, going to his island, you know, why are these people not being arrested? And you know, supposedly there's pictures out there of several, several different you know, important people. I'm not gonna name any names, but uh, you know, because you know, you don't know what is true and what is not because of AI, you can you know doctor up pictures of anybody and put them in any situation nowadays. So, you know, you gotta be careful about you know these pictures of these famous people supposedly at Epstein Island, you know, you don't know for sure if that's a made-up picture or a real picture.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

So so here's the thing. What's going to take these people down is not the victim accusations.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

If justice for the victim is uh considered to be or or viewed as anything that takes these people down, just them getting taken down, then that is much more feasible because what's going to take these people down is financial crimes. We have so much evidence now of money laundering. That's part of what tests uh is really good at. And also just being removed, not necessarily the legal system, which again, our legal system is set up so that for a prosecution they need to be able to confront the witness. But to be taken to to be removed, and what I'm saying, for example, Howard Lutnick. Howard Lutnick absolutely was way more involved with Epstein than he has ever said. Did he ever abuse a little, you know, a girl? I see no evidence of that, but I see a lot of evidence of him having lied about his relationship with Epstein now to Congress, and they are starting to call for him to either resign or be removed. That may be, with respect to some of the people, the only quote-unquote justice, that they are exposed, that they are removed from their powerful offices. You know, the other countries, you know, for example, the UK, they did an amazing job with uh what's his name, Mandelson. And, you know, he once it came out, he was done. Prince Andrew also, you know, stripped of his royal title. So other countries have done, you know, again, that's not a criminal uh prosecution, but it's a falling from grace. Is it enough? It may have to be for some of these people. On the other hand, uh, through tests, I have personally discovered a perpetrator who is still living, who trafficked a girl to Zorro Ranch, according to the girl.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

And what is this Zorro Ranch?

SPEAKER_00 32:21

The Zorro Ranch is the is one of Epstein's properties. It's his New Mexico property. And there was trafficking going on there as well. And you know, the authorities now have the identity of that perpetrator. It may or may not lead to anything, but they are at least an identified living person of interest. And in that particular case, you know, hopefully there will be an arrest and a prosecution.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Hopefully.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Yeah. So again, what to go back to your original question, you know, what justice for the victims looks like different it means different things to different people. And I think ultimately the people who get to decide what it means are the victims.

SPEAKER_03 33:14

I know I think a lot of people out there want them to be hung from the gallows and public executions and all like that, which you know, that's probably not gonna happen. Like you said, just the fall from grace is probably the worst that's gonna happen to most of them.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

Well, and it fall from grace and also potentially bankrupted.

SPEAKER_03 33:36

Yeah. Yeah, financial. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 33:41

And that can be wor you know, worse for some of them than than death.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

That's true. That's very true.

SPEAKER_03 33:48

Lose their power and money and influence, you know, that would be uh sure death for them.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

Right.

SPEAKER_03 33:56

And also in their eyes.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

Yes, absolutely. Also, though, uh, you know, if they are perjuring themselves in civil suits, that can ultimately lead to jail time.

SPEAKER_03 34:15

So that's that's one of the biggest things I think I hear out there is why there's no arrest. Right. Why is nobody being held responsible? Well, you know, to me it's it's a long process. You can't just you know run out there and start arresting people, especially people you know, you know have a lot of influence and a lot of power. It's it's harder to take someone down like that than just your normal John Doe out there that's doing this stuff. Yeah. Because you know, they have a lot of power, they have their attorneys, a lot of money to uh to back their their story. So uh you know the the more powerful the person is, the harder I think it is to bring them down.

SPEAKER_00 35:07

Well, because right, because they know how to use the legal system to their advantage to protect them, and they have the the resources to hire really good attorneys and you know, a whole group of attorneys, and um absolutely. Uh but also again, I think it's it is really important to remember that the people who were really running the particular Epstein machine in terms of the girls did get arrested. And one of them is dead, he died in jail, and the other one is still in jail, even though she's trying like crazy to get out of it.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

Yeah. You think she'll get out? I don't think that she has a good chance, but I'm not gonna say she has no chance.

SPEAKER_03 36:03

You think she'll maybe work out a deal that if she spills the beans on everything that they may uh at least give her an easier sentence.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

I have to think she's already actually spilled all the beans that she has. You think so? Well, otherwise you know, wouldn't you do anything you could to stay out of jail? Out of prison. Uh so I I th I th well I think that she has likely spilled all the beans that she can without putting herself at risk of being taken out.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

When you say taken out, you mean I mean suicide. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

Yeah. Falling off a yacht.

SPEAKER_03 37:02

Falling off a yacht.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

Which by the way, the yacht that her dad fell off of was named after her. It was the Lady Glen.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 37:12

So yeah, I mean these are powerful dark people. Oh yeah. And they're very powerful. Yep, and they are calling the shots in our country to some extent and in other countries.

SPEAKER_03 37:29

Yeah, I've heard uh one rumor or theory that you know they're not releasing the names where the government can use the information to blackmail them.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

Could be.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

And could be.

SPEAKER_03 37:48

I mean I think anything is could be possible. Well you said something about you know the Epstein's death stopped nothing, that the uh the big story is still going on.

SPEAKER_02 38:02

Yeah. Yeah, I mean it has to be.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

You know, when you look at who is actually if you just simply look at what's going on right now, right? I mean, in our country here, you are seeing that sort of manipulation and power unfold in real time. And you see people who we knew to have been uh know to have been within Epstein's sphere in some of the highest positions in our country. Again, Lutnick. You know, and and Maxwell actually said when she had that in-prison interview with uh Todd Blanche, she actually said the people who were involved in this quote, you know as your friends, some of them are in your cabinet. Now I'm positive she was referring to Lutnick, but potentially others as well. Because she said some of them, not one of them. Now, other people say, Well, yeah, but she lies all the time. I was like, you know, I really I I know for a fact Lutnick. So she wasn't lying there.

SPEAKER_03 39:37

Why do you think there's so so much redaction going on in the files? I I can understand that you know the victims, their names and things like that, but yeah, I I've not looked at any of the files or information, but from what what I've seen and and heard, I mean, everything, it's there's more redaction than there is actual statements.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

Yeah. So first of all, there are millions and millions and millions and millions of pages, right? There's millions of documents, and many of those documents are, you know, many pages. There is zero way that anyone was manually going through each of those documents. So a lot of it was computer, you know, computer redaction and the algorithm being overbroad, or for example, um, you know, if it was if if a victim's name was Susan and the computer was keying on, you know, SUS, and it happened that the the word it was actually the word sustain, it would still get redacted. You know, just like you know, we all know that in our word processing programs, you can do a search and replace, and you can do a search and replace for everything that matches whatever term you put in. And sometimes it will replace the wrong thing. Uh so a whole lot of it was over redaction based on names they actually put in. But I'm also pretty sure that there were some manual checks for particularly sensitive names. And a lot of the documents have huge blocks of redaction, just like it's a whole block. And, you know, I'm sure that is also sort of being overly zealous with, you know, a string of words or referring to a particular incident. And so the whole paragraph gets blocked, or even the whole page gets blocked. And yet we have that now famous or infamous FBI slideshow where they're doing their presentation on the incidents of interest and people of interest that they are following up. And that's completely unredacted. Trump is in there, you know, so it was just very sloppy. On the other hand, I do have to say that it also was an almost insurmountable task given the breadth of and scope of what they were dealing with and the the sheer number of files. So I would say that at least some of it is uh the result of incompetence versus malice.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

But maybe not all of it.

SPEAKER_03 43:16

Why didn't this is another question and comment I hear a lot, why didn't the previous administration r release all this information? I mean, it's been out there for for years.

SPEAKER_00 43:30

I honestly don't know. I just I don't know whether, you know, I can con you know, I can guess that it wasn't ripe yet. They were still doing investigation that it would have compromised the investigation, or it just wasn't a priority, or the right people didn't know to bring it forward. I I just I honestly don't know. There may be people who do know.

SPEAKER_03 44:09

And people say, you know, if Trump was guilty, then the previous administration would have released it and you know before the election to, you know, keep him from getting elected. So and then other people say, well, you know, since they didn't use that against him, then he was innocent of any wrongdoing. You know, people say you know, you see pictures of Trump and Clinton and all several people with Epstein. And they're saying, see, you know, you know, they both were friends with Epstein, which, you know, just because you're at a party with somebody don't mean you're friends with them, but then again, you know, who knows?

unknown 44:56

Right.

SPEAKER_03 44:57

Who knows what the the uh the depth of their friendships or their meetings with.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

Right. Right. Here's here's one of the things that I believe based on the files that I've seen. When Trump says that he had no contact with Epstein since whatever year it was he said that about, I believe that it is likely true that he had no direct contact with Epstein. But I know for a fact from files and emails I've seen that messages were getting back and forth between the two of them through an intermediary. So both things can be true. Technically speaking, it's quite likely true that he did not, Trump had no direct contact with Epstein after a certain year. But it's also true that messages were being communicated to Trump from Trump or you know, one of his people through an intermediary back to Epstein.

SPEAKER_03 46:17

Yeah, you see a lot a lot of pictures out there, you know, Clinton and some others, and and they make the comments well, well, we've never met him before, but yet you see pictures of different people supposedly at the island in hot tubs and posing with them. But you know, again, we talked about it earlier, you know, they could be uh AI generated.

SPEAKER_00 46:45

So yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 46:48

So it's hard hard to tell what what is real out there, what pictures are real and what are fake. And I guess uh the uh authorities have the the real pictures, and I don't know if the any of the pictures have been released to the public.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

Well, I guess that depends on what you mean by the pictures and what you mean by released, and even what you mean by the public. I know I'm sounding like a lawyer because you know, but you're a lawyer. Right. You know, there have been pictures in the files that have been released. So but there's also allegedly an entire trove of hard drives that have video and pictures on them that no one seems to know exactly where they are now, and those have not been released. So um, you know, I actually in my private Dropbox, which also is available to my members, my Substack members, you know, we have a whole directory full of videos, but they are not, so far as I've seen, you know, the videos that people really want to know about. You know, they're not the the ones that were recorded on his closed circuit TV in his Palm Springs uh, you know, Florida house. They are videos of um the police actions as they're walking through his house with their search warrant and uh video, you know, they're fairly innocuous.

SPEAKER_03 48:38

What about the rumors of human sacrificing and cannibalism? You know, that's something that's really got a lot of people stirred up and I mean I don't believe them.

SPEAKER_00 48:55

I have seen the uh the statements made to the FBI that include those. And they taken in the context of the whole statement, they just don't pass the SNF test for me. When I was in litigation specifically, I often dealt with people who probably believed what they were saying that would make allegations like that. And I I hasten to add, my litigation practice was not in this kind of context. But I certainly saw my share of statements that you know, if they seem really far-fetched, you kind of have to look at the context. And if the rest of the context seems pretty credible, then those allegations also carry more weight. But if the rest of the context is also things that are just so fanciful, you know, you never want to dismiss something out of hand, and I don't, but I think I think those allegations are pretty unlikely.

SPEAKER_02 50:38

Not saying for sure, but the sniff test.

SPEAKER_03 50:46

All these lists that's come been coming out uh since day one, which you know I didn't believe half of the names that were put out because you know right when this first broke, you had a list of hundreds of people names that were on the list of visiting the island that's flown on this jet. Has any of that true? Has any real lists been released with names on them, or is this just more propaganda one side trying to you know get traction for on the other side to use it?

SPEAKER_00 51:28

Yes, to all of the above. I um I mean there are a lot of names in those files. But but that doesn't mean they did anything wrong. It's not anything wrong to fly on someone's private jet.

unknown 51:46

No.

SPEAKER_00 51:47

It's not anything wrong to visit their private island. And of course, he threw a lot of social functions and he was invited to a lot of social functions. I think where the issue comes in, uh, first of all, is when they lie about it. You know, like I did not visit the island. Well, yeah, what about that time that you were there with your family? You know, if they start lying about it, then that's where you think there must be something more to this because they're trying to cover something up. Um, but sure, there are a lot of people who are named as uh, you know, being invited to a party or, you know, some other socially, you know, social function. Or, you know, Epstein was really someone who liked to gladhead around with people that were, you know, well known or influential. Um that doesn't mean that they had any idea what he was up to. Now, where I take more issue is the people who were socializing with him or in business with him or transacting with him after he got out of jail in Florida. At that point, he was a convicted, acknowledged sex offender. Right. And there's no way they didn't know that. Now, sure, you know, you can say, well, people deserve a second chance. He was rehabilitated. Well, he certainly wasn't rehabilitated, obviously. Um, but but that's where I start. I think I have a, you know, a sort of a soft line that I draw there of like, well, you know what? You knew what he was in for. You knew that he admitted it, at least to one count.

SPEAKER_02 53:44

And you're still hanging out with him. Like, that just doesn't seem right.

SPEAKER_03 53:55

Yeah, yeah. Once you know a person has been convicted of that, if you continue to hang out with them, then it's you're gonna be at one point brought into a web of uh crime. And whether you know about it and still do it and still hang out with them, or participating, that's something that uh is gonna be questionable.

SPEAKER_00 54:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:25

Anything else uh that you want to mention about the whole do you think it'll ever get totally resolved, or do you think it'll be eventually people maybe forget about it?

SPEAKER_00 54:43

I th I think that I think that most of everything will eventually come out, but not in my lifetime. I think maybe twenty years from now. Yeah. Well maybe that might be my lifetime if I'm lucky.

SPEAKER_03 55:01

You think it's gonna take that long to get all the answers and get everything?

SPEAKER_00 55:06

Yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_02 55:09

Everything including like what we've talked about, not just the victims. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:17

Yeah, I don't think the victims that can ever get justice. I mean, we talked about that, you know, before that you know, physical scars you can get over, but the emotional uh scars you never get over. And that's something that will always be with the victims uh in some shape, form, or fashion. And it that's something that there's no way of getting justice for that. So most of the perpetrators, you know, the fall from grace and financial ruin. It's probably the the worst that's gonna happen to them. And uh there'll be probably very few of them that will spend time in jail unless you know they get into, you know, lying under oath and perjury that they may get 'em sort of backdoor them into uh to something something else. And financial.

SPEAKER_00 56:23

Remember Capone. Remember that so I um have another engagement that I need to get to.

SPEAKER_03 56:33

Okay. Well, I appreciate your time. Very informative, and uh look forward to uh following you. And I've been uh reading some of your your emails that that come out, and uh hopefully we can grow grow your following.

SPEAKER_00 56:50

Well, that's very kind of you, and likewise, and uh thank you so much for having me. I'm I'm I'm really honored.

SPEAKER_03 57:00

Well, thank you for for sharing everything with us. It was it was very informative.

SPEAKER_00 57:05

My pleasure.

SPEAKER_03 57:06

That's it for our show for today. Thank you for joining in. I hope you were able to learn something today that may help you understand what is going on around you, allowing you to be aware of the dangers to yourself and perhaps a loved one, and maybe inspire you to get involved in the fight to stop human trafficking. Please follow me on Facebook, subscribe to my podcast, email me at David J Story dot com with your questions or comments. Music by Tunerel dot com. And please remember, always watch your six and others too.