The Reality of a Dance Career No One Talks About | Martin Rebello

This isn’t just about dance.

It’s about choosing something and staying with it long enough to let it change you.

In this episode of Artists Unveiled, we sit with Martin Rebello, a ballroom dancer, teacher, and studio owner who’s spent decades not just perfecting movement, but transforming people through it. What starts as a conversation about dance quietly becomes something deeper. Discipline. Identity. Risk. The uncomfortable truth of building a life around what you love.

He talks about the part no one glamorizes. The years of repetition. The moments of doubt. The reality that passion alone isn’t enough, and how turning art into a career means stepping into business, community, and responsibility.

But more than that, this episode sits in a softer space too.

What it means to teach. To witness people come back to themselves. To create moments where someone feels seen, capable, alive again. One step at a time.

There’s honesty here about ego, partnership, failure, and the quiet courage it takes to keep going when things don’t feel certain. Not everything is beautiful while you’re building it. But something shifts if you stay.

If you’ve ever questioned whether to follow something creative, or wondered what it really takes to sustain it long term, this conversation will meet you exactly there.

Because at some point, it stops being about talent. It becomes about whether you’re willing to show up, again and again, until it turns into something real.

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Transcript

Martin: I think people who want to learn how to dance, they either do it because it's something that they never thought they could do before, something stopped them in their life, marriage, kids, livelihoods. Feeling clumsy. Feeling clumsy, just always being at that place in their life where I can't do this and I'm not going to put myself out there until they take literally that first step and find out that, oh, I can be taught this just like anybody else.

Holiday: Hi, welcome to Artists Unveiled, a show where we bring on exceptional artists to not just tell their stories, but to give you real insights into how they went from striving to thriving. My name is Holiday, and I am so happy to introduce Martin Ribello, a talented and award winning ballroom dancer, franchisee owner, and teacher at the celebrated Arthur Murray Dance Studio in Syosset, New York. It's an honor to meet someone so dedicated to enriching people's lives through sharing his passion for dance. And I can't wait to have this conversation. So you have your own dance studio.

Martin: That is true. That is it.

Holiday: How did you ever imagine that you would?

Martin: You know, that's a very good question. And a lot of people ask me that all the time. And no, it was never my intention to ever own my own business. I just wanted to dance, teach people how to dance, change people's lives. And I was doing that for many years before I actually owned my own business.

Holiday: I mean, these days it's a common marriage to have your craft and have a business, but it wasn't always that way.

Martin: True, true. I had my craft. I've worked for other people. I'm very happy doing that. And things change and opportunities arise. And then you say, maybe I should go for it.

Holiday: So you're an award winning ballroom dancer, yes?

Martin: Yes.

Holiday: Tell me a little bit about that.

Martin: Again, never wanted to be a professional competitor either. Was announced one day as the future Boston area dance couple, part of a dance team. And went for it and then actually won a dance competition in 1999, a long time ago, in the American Smooth and Rhythm Championships.

Holiday: And what does that mean?

Martin: So smooth dancing is waltz, tango, foxtrot, Viennese waltz. That's one category that you compete in. And then you have rhythm category, which is cha cha, rumba, swing, bolero, and mambo.

Holiday: That's a lot of forms.

Martin: A lot of forms of dancing. So when you think of ballroom dancing, you have to think of it as sports. So the title is sports. And then under that title becomes lacrosse, hockey, football, soccer, baseball. So you have a lot of different genres of dance. Waltz, tango, foxtrot, Viennese waltzes, bachatas, trombones. Sambas, mambos, salsas, merengues. And each one of them has its own character. So as you compete in the different divisions, you also have to make the character come alive in each of those dances as you're doing them.

Holiday: Is there a cohesive core, in your opinion, to all of these dances?

Martin: Well... that's why it's in two different categories. So when we're talking smooth dancing, it's about graceful, elegance, movement, travel, beauty. When we talk about rhythm dances, it's about cheekiness, Latin, shake it up, have some fun, party dances.

Holiday: What first drew you to dancing?

Martin: Well, I am second generation. So my parents met and married first as Arthur Murray Dance instructors. So after they divorced, I used to hang out with my mom at the dance studio, the Arthur Murray Dance Studio that she worked at.

Holiday: So from what age were you familiar with the studio?

Martin: Nine.

Holiday: What was your first impression?

Martin: I actually was surprised because I saw my mother going to work in the evenings part time, and we didn't really know what she did. And then when I walked into the studio, I was like, oh, this is fun. And at that time, the kids weren't allowed in the ballroom, so I had to stay in the other room. But I used to sneak out and dance with a pole that was holding up the ceiling. That was my first experience.

Holiday: In terms of waltz? Waltz?

Martin: Yeah. The dance, yeah.

Holiday: Are there different waltzes?

Martin: Yes, there's a slow waltz and there's a Viennese waltz. So there's an American style waltz, which is a slower version. And then the Viennese waltz is what everyone knows about from Strauss waltzes, right? From European days, from Vienna and Austria, the Viennese waltz, which is much faster.

Holiday: And can you elaborate a little on some of the other styles that you mentioned?

Martin: Sure. So, okay, so waltz is the slow, graceful, elegant dance. Foxtrot is more taking a stroll down the street, kind of has a little jazzy kind of movements in it. Tango, dramatic, right? Cat and mouse type of play with that very dramatic.

Holiday: And then Argentinian tango.

Martin: Well, that's a different tango.

Holiday: Is it?

Martin: Yeah, so Argentinian tango is more almost romantic type of size, sultry, shall you say.

Holiday: And so there's tango and Argentinian tango?

Martin: Yes, there's international style tango, American style tango, and Argentinian tango.

Holiday: Okay, okay. I was only familiar with Argentinian, which is very romantic.

Martin: Yes, yes. Everyone sees a lot of Argentinian tango. And the music is beautiful. It's a melange of classical music and

Holiday: Right, yeah. Other tones of music.

Martin: Yeah.

Holiday: And what are some other dance forms? Because I interrupted you a little bit.

Martin: That's okay. We were talking about the Viennese waltz, which is very circular and moving around the floor. You see it like Vienna balls, right? The big dances that people have in halls. They would do Viennese waltz, so it's very elegant and moving. And then when you get into the Latin dances, it's all cha cha, cheeky, rumba, cozy, romantic, bolero, dance of love, very oozy. Swing, party, have a great time. Mambo, Latin party dance.

Holiday: And what is the meeting for you between the dance and the music, the different styles of music?

Martin: Well, that's how you're going to build a character of the dance, right? So the music is designed in a way that it's made to fit the rhythm of the dance, right? So the rhythm of the dance, like you can't do like a cha cha to a tango, right? So the way that it's arranged is what dance you do. And then how it sounds is how you feel. So I always say this to my students. There is a bottom line that goes thump, thump, thump, thump, thump, thump. And that's going to give you the timing right to the dance, where you place your feet to the beat. Then there's the top line, that is all the da da da da da da da da da, which will give you the emotion and the character of the dance. So that's how you build top and bottom with music and dance.

Holiday: So eventually ballroom dance came into the spotlight. And did that change anything for you?

Martin: For me personally, I was already in it. I was in it deep. So going I was always thought of the ballroom dancing as the underground crowd. Right. The secret society of ballroom dancing. And then programs hit the air and then it became more mainstream, which was great. Business wise, you know, people saw it in a different light. It wasn't just for the retired people. It wasn't just for the older crowd and to do foxtrot that was just walking around a floor. It could be performance based and people saw it and enjoyed it.

Holiday: Outside of the technical skill, which is quite difficult, you know, to be an expert in that field, what do you think, where does art meet technique?

Martin: Well, you know... we have this discussion a lot and I have this discussion with staff and teachers from other studios that you don't want to take away from the art and the feeling. A lot of people, I just go by feeling. You see it a lot maybe on social media where they're dancing around and they're doing it. But when you want to be a profession and you want to be the tops of your game, there is a training process that takes a long time to get the things that judges or experienced people can see. So if you watched figure skating, right, and they're just jumping up in the air and turning and then you go to your local rink or outside on a pond and you jump and you turn and you skate and you go, look, I'm a skater. Well, you're skating. But you're not a professional skater until you learn the technique that goes behind it.

Holiday: Do you feel a change in your students from the perspective that people had going to dance earlier in your career as to students that come today?

Martin: I don't think so. I think people who want to learn how to dance, they either do it because it's something that they never thought they could do before. Something stopped them in their life. Marriage, kids, livelihoods. Feeling clumsy. Feeling clumsy. Just always being at that place in their life where I can't do this and I'm not going to put myself out there until they take literally that first step and find out that, oh, I can be taught this just like anybody else.

Holiday: So what do you think would be important for someone to know if they were trying to choose whether they turn dancing into a career. They've studied. They know that they're pretty good. This is something that they don't want to just leave behind them and do some other work. Right. What advice would you give someone?

Martin: First of all, there's a stick to positiveness. A boss of mine taught me that many, many, many years ago. Right now, it seems like people are trying to find the easiest route to get to a goal. And I always say there's no real easy route to get there. Like you're going to have to put in the time. If you want to do it, you can make a career out of dancing and teaching and building your own community and your own business to be able to continue dancing while being successful in a business area. But just to dance is, it's going to be a little bit trickier. So get that community, you know, get the people around you that is going to help you build that into a career, into a business. You've got to go to the business route of it in order to be successful most of the time. There are a few and there are many that can just dance and make a profession out of that. But if you want to have some sort of groundedness and something to fall back on, then build that business in teaching.

Holiday: So Martin, what made you decide to do this as a living?

Martin: The truthful answer? I didn't want to work at Burger King. I didn't want to be at a fast food restaurant. And all my friends were getting jobs at fast food restaurants. And I said, maybe I can do something else. And at that time, when I was thinking about what I was going to do, not working at Burger a local convenience store or a fast food chain, I would sit and think about it. And then my mother's boss's son opened up a secondary studio in Rhode Island where I was living at the time. And he called me on my 16th birthday and said, do you want a job? Nice. And I looked at my mother and I said, do I want a job? And she's like, no. I said, yes, I do. And so I started the career January 5th, 1985. Wow. So it's been 40 years. Amazing. Of doing it.

Holiday: From just being like, being in love with dance and being around the studio and the people.

Martin: So I was there from when I was like 9 to 15. So being in and out, taking lessons, dancing, hanging out with my mom and her friends at the studio. So I felt very comfortable going into a dance studio. I already had a community, even though they were much older than I was, which now that I think about it, they weren't that old.

Holiday: You know, some people are very secure in their craft and their art and their burning desire to do something. And others are not as secure but may have the talent and the drive.

Martin: Yeah.

Holiday: So if someone's at that impasse in their life and they're thinking, do I want to spend my life doing this? This is my passion. This is my love. I think I should do this. How do they know where to go, in your opinion?

Martin: You know, that's when you have to dig deep. And you have to really say to yourself, am I just going to go for it? Am I going for all the marbles? Am I just going to follow my passion and see where it's going to take me? Or do I bail now and become a former dancer? So there was a time in my career, if I may add that in, that I was like seven years in. And I came to that pass where things just, I don't know, maybe I was thinking a different route for myself. And the studio that I was with at the time was thinking a different route. And I was just like, well, maybe I'm wrong. And then I said, well, maybe I'm right. And so I moved away from my family and I moved to Connecticut from Rhode Island. And I started a whole new set career there in the same industry, the same Arthur Murray Dance Studios. I've been with them the whole time. Because that's the family that will support you. Find that community, like I said, and that family that will support you. And then you'll make the right decisions easier.

Holiday: And so, yeah. So there was a point. And I talked to a lot of dancers that come to that point, right? Where they're like, even if they were doing competitions or tryouts or rehearsals or auditions, and they're just like, maybe this isn't for me. But somewhere like,

Martin: The organization that I work for, you build a career, not just be a dancer. So I knew that in the back of my mind. Having my parents in the business really helped too because my father ended up being in the business for 50 years. Wow. So I knew it was possible. I found the people that would make it possible for me, and that's important.

Holiday: What does it mean to you to teach people?

Martin: Yeah, it means a lot. I'm sorry that I'm getting emotional.

Holiday: I get emotional too. We're good. These are deep, important things because it's an exchange.

Martin: Well, a lot of people think dance is only for yourself. But in my profession, I get to help other people. People who may have lost someone in their life and now that are alone. Some people that had kids and never really connected again with their spouse or their mate to bring them together and see them laugh again and do that. I think of a story that when I was 17, a man called up and said that his wife wanted to learn how to dance. And I said, of course, that's what we do. He said, but she's blind. And I said, it doesn't matter. She'll go by feeling. So they came in. And yeah, I was dancing the waltz with her. And then I came up with this idea that I asked her, can you see anything? And she said, I can see shadows. If lights are really bright, I can see a shadow. So at which point it was a sunny day. I opened up all the blinds, turned on all of her heads, and she looked in the mirror and she saw herself dancing. Oh my gosh. Again, I think of that story that that's what I'm doing. I'm not just doing a cha cha basic, and I tell my staff that all the time. Arthur Murray, our organization, is based on what can we do to enhance someone's life through the art of dancing.

Holiday: Do you often make people cry?

Martin: No. Only myself.

Holiday: Only myself. I don't think you would. They'll go, when you think of Martin, do you think of crying? I don't think that would be the words, the statement that they would say on.

Martin: Tears of joy. Tears of joy, maybe. Maybe. I don't know. You'd have to interview a couple more people to see if that would actually come out of their mouths. But yeah, so it's about what we could really do, what that passion or that spark could... we always say that we change people's lives literally one step at a time. And so I always talk to my staff. I talk to other people who teach dance. Find out what they're looking for. It's not just to do that salsa basic. People have more passion than that.

Holiday: I think what's interesting is that an audience sees a show. And the artist has a whole other process, just like teaching people. There's a whole other world that you're aware of that also goes on as a teacher, as a performer, as a business owner, even the exchange of all those people and all those ideas and all of their life experiences. There's just so much kind of behind the curtain there on your side that no one gets to see. And I think that's true of a lot of artists and people who are craftspeople and people who are creatives.

Martin: Right. Right. It's a whole other world. And that also is why community is so important because other artists are also in that world.

Holiday: Right. Yeah.

Martin: Yeah. Sometimes I think the creative process that dancers go through in general is like the creative process that any artist goes through. Maybe an art person, a painter in that form would be creating in their head a picture that they want to create. No one sees that. They just see the product at the end. Dancers are rehearsing. They're watching stuff. They're trying stuff out. There's all these back and back behind the scenes.

Holiday: Right. Well, as you said, dancers are athletes. Right. And most people don't think of it that way. They think clearly they're athletic. But often people don't think because I have a friend whose wife is a substantial athlete in the field and he said my wife is an athlete and I had just never thought of it that way although it's obvious.

Martin: Well, it's not obvious. Okay, so when we think of ballroom dancing, right, we think maybe social dancing, we think dancing at a wedding, you think dancing at a nightclub. And when you're dancing at a wedding and dancing at a nightclub you're not thinking that you're exercising or training you're not playing basketball. So you're not feeling that same instant burn. But if you're going to train in it, it's just like training in anything else. When we were training, when I was a professional competitor, you know, the two and a half hours a day, five to six days a week before teaching a full day and then going and doing shows and performances, your body feels it after that. I mean, some people train three hours a day, seven days a week. It's like working out. It's just a different form. And we think of it as social, but if you think about it as a competitive, it's just like any other sport.

Holiday: Well, it's also really good for longevity because dancers, a lot of people that I've met who were in their 90s, when I've spoken to them, they were all dancers.

Martin: Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, at our studio, at my studio, we have our youngest student that's 22, and my oldest student is 88 who will be competing with me next week at a competition in Florida. So yeah. You can keep moving and you can keep doing it and it is good. It's healthy. It's good for rehabilitation. We've had people who've had hip surgeries and knee surgeries and they're like, find something that's a lower impact that can get you moving. And you can modify things for dancing. Everything's modified to the individual. Especially what we do is we find out exactly what are you looking for? What do you want to get out of this? And then we plan our lessons and the route, the journey around that.

Holiday: Yeah. So what gives you the fortitude to do this consistently for so many years?

Martin: Well, I think it's infectious as well. I think when you go to work every day, you change people's lives. You have a good time. There's music all around and you get to dance most of the day. Like, right. Why are we here? Right. Let's go dancing. So I think every profession or career is going to have its ups and downs, right? It's going to have its movement. It's going to go through things. The world is going to change a little bit, as we all know. And we're going to have to adapt and we're going to have to go. But are you going to do something that you just love and persevere and go through it? Or are you going to just drop that off. Do something that maybe you're not as passionate about, but have to go through the same journey anyway. Me, someone told me, do something that you love. Never feel like you work another day in your life. I was like, I don't think that's true. I'm going to still have to work, but at least I'm going to love what I do. And so taking that statement, switching it around to, yeah, there's going to be hard times. But I want to go to work and smile. And I want people to come in and smile and be happy to come see us. I mean, we're going to get you dancing. We're going to get you having a good time. Like, I don't know why you wouldn't want to be there, right? And be able to do that as a job. Sure. And as a career. So that's what just pushes me through.

Holiday: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. I don't want to sit in a cubicle. I'm not a cubicle type of person. I don't know if you noticed that.

Martin: You can't dance in a cubicle.

Holiday: I know. I know. It's very tight. Cubicle dancing could be. It could be a thing.

Martin: It could be a thing. Maybe I'll create that program for office workers. It happened right here. Right here. Right here, guys. Get up. Get out of your cubicle. We're going to get dancing.

Holiday: At one moment, in your teaching career, did you suddenly realize, hey, I'm gonna open my own studio?

Martin: Funny story, or not so funny story. We'll see how it goes. I was running an Arthur Murray dance studio in Boston. And I had friends that, of course, I told you, in the community of the dance industry. Tragically, something happened in Boston, a death that had changed the face of how the studio was going to be run. Again, that moment, almost that moment of that story that I told about seven, that seven year in, I had to make a decision. What am I going to do? And my friend's husband said, so why don't you come to Long Island and open up a studio? Wow. And we'll help you get it going and we'll be there with you. And I said, well, if I'm going to do it for the rest of my life, I need to have that grounding. I need to have that. So I packed my bags and packed up a U Haul and rest is history. 20 years later, here we are sitting here.

Holiday: So you've been working in a franchise.

Martin: Yes.

Holiday: Which is amazing, especially with the community aspect that you mentioned. But what if someone wanted to start their own dance studio? Do you have any insight for them, perhaps?

Martin: Well, if you're going to open your own business in anything, right, you want to make sure that, I guess the old saying is your ducks are in a row, right, that you have an actual business plan on how you're going to get to point A to point B. And then once you get to point B, make sure you know how you're going to get to point C. Because it doesn't end there. It's going to be a continued process. And, you know, stick to your guns and build your own community. You don't necessarily need a franchise to have a community because especially in the dance world, you can always find those people out there that can support you. But get somebody who knows about business. Get someone who knows about all those back and behind the scenes stuff. And also things that come along not to get discouraged. Right. So there's going to have things that pop up that you didn't expect. It's happened to all of us. But when you learn about it and you have the people who know about it, who've gone through it, it's just like any other business. Just keep going. Steam rolling forward. And you're going to make the mistakes and you're going to think like why did I make that mistakes but you won't make that mistake again because you'll have the knowledge the next time and running a business and going through life is just making the mistakes and getting the knowledge and and keep moving forward.

Holiday: Any other ancillary advice you might give to someone who'd be opening a studio like maybe where they are going to open the studio or any other things good question

Martin: You know, it's just not about finding a place. It's about finding the right place. And it's about really researching. I found it fascinating. I just moved my studio from one location to another about three years ago. And when I went to go do that, the research that goes behind it is something different about zip codes and households and population and perception of what they do in the area, right? If it's an art world, they're going to go to where people have galleries and have arts and where they're doing that. So I think when you look for a place look for the place in the area of the people that you want to be around and that want to be around you. Put your craft not maybe just in the cheapest place.

Martin: Or the most expensive place because it looks glamorous, but in a place that's going to work for you and work for the community around you and the people that are there. That's what I looked for. I looked for the community of people that I go, oh, they're looking to dance or this is a populated place that would accept ballroom dancing and want to be in ballroom dancing. A lot of times right now, you're doing a lot of internet searches and advertising on the internet to get clientele to come into the studios. But you still want to be in a place where people can get to easily, that they can find you, that it's not a mismatched route in order to get to your place, that it's inconvenient for them to get there, right? So be careful on where you're choosing. Like we always say, we just said location, location, location is what you really have to think about.

Holiday: If someone is a dancer, strictly a dancer, and they want to know the pitfalls and the benefits of moving forward on that path, do you have any advice for them?

Martin: I do. Just be careful. Be careful how much you push your body. Take care of your body. Like that's your instrument. And sometimes we think we can go, go, go, go. But if you want to make a longevity career out of dancing, train, like we said earlier, like an athlete. Properly, carefully. Properly, carefully. You know, on television shows, we see these people cramming in a lot of dancing, a lot of strenuous dancing in a short amount of time because they're doing it in a week. And then all of a sudden, two weeks later, they're injured. They have ankle injuries. They have knee injuries, what have you. So take care of yourself. Don't think that because you're really young and agile at the moment, the things you're not going to feel till later also.

Holiday: Exactly. And you don't want to stretch out your tendons and ligaments or however that works, right?

Martin: Yeah. You're going to have to make sure your body is progressing as much as you're dancing so that the training, the ligaments, the joints are strengthened as you move through your career. And just pay attention to it. Your body knows. Your body knows. Your mind might say, I can do anything. Your body's going to say, let's check this out first. And then you can do anything.

Holiday: So in terms of a dancer in their career, understanding the concept that they may not be the star of the show and that they're going to be working with other people and or people who team up and dance teams and work. And that's the goal. And whether you're a ballet dancer or whether you're a ballroom dancer, there's this reality. And you have to be able to mold and blend with others. So what advice along those lines?

Martin: So in ballroom dancing, there's you two and only you two, right? So it's not always going to go your way. And you have to build a connection. And you have to understand that if there's two people in a partnership, there are two people and feelings. They have feelings. They're going to want things certain ways. You've got to be able to be a little flexible and bendable. It'll get heated. You're not going to always agree on everything that you're going to do, whether it's the outfit that you're going to wear, the dance performance you're going to do, or what have you, or how you want it done. So that's a big thing is just to know that it's a person and that they have feelings too. And you're not just the only one in it, especially when you're a partner.

Holiday: So what is the threshold though, not to give up on someone that you're working with, where you get that moment and you know, sometimes you break through it and you're like, oh, this was a great person to work with. I'm so glad I worked through it. Or wow, I just wasted my time.

Martin: Yeah, it's that fine line, right? Because you don't want to take one instance or one situation and base it on then this isn't going to work. Then I'm just whatever. You know, it could be just that instant. Someone could have had a bad day. You don't, unless you really know them and know what's going on in their life behind the scenes, you can't just do that. But if you can have a conversation with someone about a feeling, then you know you're on the route to a partnership. If you try to have a conversation with someone, just like any other relationship, and they block it off and they ignore it and they walk away from it, then maybe you should walk away from that as well. I mean, that's what we all had to do. Right. You know, because in any relationship, in an ensemble cast, it's different. If you're working on a group project and there's many different people, you just have to accept that you're part of a group and it's not just about you. So you have to know where you stand or where you place yourself in a partnership or a group number that that's where you are. Be grateful that you're even there.

Holiday: In group dynamics, let's just give you two quick scenarios. You're in the group dynamic and you're with the major part of the group and everything's going smoothly. But you see that there's someone and they're not there fitting in, would you reach out to that person or would you leave them alone?

Martin: Well, if you see as the person in charge, of course, you want to see what's going on if it's the right fit. Maybe at first it was the right fit. And then you have to make the hard decision. Is it the right fit? Because what one poisoned, spoiled apple ruins the bunch or how that saying goes, that could happen because one person can bring a lot of people down. If you're part of the group and you're that type of person, you either go to the choreographer or you go privately and just say, hey, is something going on? I noticed that this week you weren't as lively as you were last week or are you feeling something that maybe we could all help you with? You know, a team can bring somebody up or bring somebody down, right? So I'm on the bring somebody up type of person. I'm the person going, hey, look, you can make it. We all had tough days. Let's get through this together. So I'm more like that when it comes to people, even with my own staff. I'm like, something's going on. Let's talk about it. It wasn't the same as yesterday. Or the student feels that way. Your student in front of you, something's a little off today. But once someone can talk about it, it moves on from there.

Holiday: If there was one piece of courage you could offer, what would it be?

Martin: Encouragement is just like, you know you can do it, so just do it. Don't worry about it. Don't sweat the small stuff. There's always going to be small stuff. One thing's not going to work out for that moment. You're going to find something a little bit more difficult than another move or another situation. But that's just the glip. That's just the little point. Look at the bigger picture that you've done it, especially if you've done it before, you can do it again.

Holiday: And do you think that generally people are not critical enough of themselves when they're trying to achieve something or too critical? Or are those two different kinds of people?

Martin: It's two different kinds of people. I guess we call it old school, new school, right? So now I think a lot of people with social media think that it's all everybody else's problem and I'm the really good one because that's how they have to show themselves, I think, on social media. I'm not a big today social media type of person, but that's the concept that I get. Old school, we didn't have that. We had to be critical on ourselves and push forth and almost not prove it to somebody else, but show them like I'm worth it. Because we had to be in front of the person personally at the time to do it. So I think we could always be a little bit more critical of ourselves. I think it's kind of getting to the part where it's like, I'm okay, I'm great. My mother tells me I can do anything. I'm the perfect one. It's everybody else's fault. And I think we need to go back to going, there is a competition and there is a winner and there is someone who's not going to win. We don't have to call them losers. But there's going to be someone who's not going to win. That's how the game works. That's how the game works. That's the game we're playing. And so then if it didn't work for you and you weren't the winner, then you've got to train and you've got to do it a little bit harder. And the next time you will be the winner. Maybe. It's just the part of being part of the world.

Holiday: And what about seeing yourself? You know, I think that it's also important for a performer to be able to be objective to themselves.

Martin: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, when I was practicing professional competition, even if I'm going to do a show, I tape myself, right? You tape the routine, see what it looks like. You go back and you go, no.

Holiday: Do you go back the next day or to watch it?

Martin: I watch it immediately right afterwards because I want to know the next day what I'm going to be working on. I like this. I like this. I like this. I don't like that. That doesn't look at it. What was I doing there? And it's okay to question yourself and look at it from an outside point of view because that's what people are going to be doing. So if you want to put on the best performance and you want to feel really good about it, yeah, video. Watch it back. We have the technology. We have it. You can slow it down. You can speed it up. You can do whatever you need to do. Cut it in pieces. But yeah, go back. Look at it. And say to yourself, do I like what I see? And if it's not where you want it to be, make it. Make it what you want it to be. Or ask for advice. Ask for advice. Everyone's there to make everybody better.

Holiday: Seems like people would want to tear people down in like art worlds, but it's not true.

Martin: A lot of people have been through the same thing. Especially I find the more talented people are actually most helpful.

Holiday: It's so true. It's like if they're talented and they've been winning or they're achieving their goals, they have no problem helping someone else.

Martin: That's right. Because they're fine. They know that they've went through that and now they're there and they can help someone else.

Holiday: If someone's overly critical, you should realize you shouldn't be listening to them.

Martin: Yeah. You don't want them to tear you down.

Holiday: What do you think people should know that maybe we haven't discussed if they want to do what you do for a living? Dancing, teaching.

Martin: First of all, when you think about a dance profession, note that you're going to dance, but it's also going to be work, right? It's not just dancing. It is a career, a job, an occupation that you have to work at it. And you have to always hone your craft, right, to do it. So there's always training. You always want to train yourself. You always want to stay sharp. Push yourself. Challenge yourself in dancing as you keep going through and making a career and an occupation in a profession. Also, make sure you have the community involved of people in the same profession around you so that if times do get tough, and we went through five years ago a major thing in the world.

Holiday: True.

Martin: And we were dance studios, and it was tough to teach dancing from the living room over Zoom. But Arthur Murray, there's 300 Arthur Murray dance studios in 23 different countries. We're all franchised individuals. And so we knew what was happening. So we had the community that we could go, how am I going to get through this? Help me. And they're like, this is how we're getting through this. This is how you can get through it. So because they all had the passion and no one was giving up. So find the people that are going to support it, have that passion. And when you go, who do I reach out to? Make sure you know those people to reach out to that are going to help you through anything. And then you'll make it. I did. Here we are.

Holiday: Yeah. Here we are. We made it. Made it through. I say that every day.

Martin: Just make it through. Just make it through. But make it through with fun. Make it through with dance. Make it through with laughter. The world's hard enough.

Holiday: It's true. You need to have an outlet on life. That's what art in any form is like the annex where we can all go and be and live and do and dream and create and flow and laugh and cry.

Martin: Yeah, it's an emotional thing in any which way, in any form of art. People do it in paintings. People do it in their music. They do it in dance. They do it in many different writing, poetry. There's many different things that you can do and you can have that outlet. And if that sparks something in you, whether it's a painting, whether it's a poem, whether it's a dance that you saw on social media, follow it. Go do it. Do it now. When are you going to do it? If you don't do it now, when are you going to do it.

Holiday: It's true. We only have here and now, so let's do it, right?

Martin: Yeah.

Holiday: Martin, I just wanted to thank you so much for coming and sharing all of those poignant moments with us.

Martin: Thanks for having me.

Holiday: Absolutely. I hope your listeners and viewers will take something away that will help them in their careers. Well, you know, I love dance and I've actually managed a dance studio a long time ago when I was in college.

Martin: Nice.

Holiday: But I've learned a lot of things just sitting here listening with you.

Martin: Good. I'm glad I could share.

Holiday: You've made me even more inspired about the concept of dancing. Maybe it won't only be a concept.

Martin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It doesn't have to be a concept. It can be a reality as well. Thanks for having me. It's been a pleasure.

Holiday: Thanks so much for stopping by. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Artists Unveiled. Please check us out on Instagram at dimi.app.og. That's D I M I dot A P P dot O G. And on our website at godimi.com.