Discovering your Next Thing with Mark Ross

In this episode of Navigate with Tim Austin, Tim invites Mark Ross to talk about discovering your next thing in transition seasons.
Mark is a skilled professional certified coach who has his own personal story of finding purpose and fulfillment in the second half of life. What he brings in experience and skill as a coach allows professionals to walk with Ross in gaining greater clarity in life and work and, ultimately, design a pathway to prosper.
If you or someone you know is looking for inspiration and guidance for navigating a successful transition in the second half of life, this episode is a must listen!

Meet Mark Ross...
Artist, Encore Coach RLA, MBA, CPLC, ACC Retired Executive. REWIRED Encorepreneur—Pursuing the Life and Work that matters most in the second half! Mark is the owner of Next Thing Group, an Artist, Landscape Architect, a certified Professional Life and Leadership Coach, is credentialed with the International Coach Federation and holds several other related certifications. Mark also serves as a Team Host with Rock Retirement Club.

When not coaching, Ross brings together his love of art and architecture by creating visual music to inspire the world through expressionistic landscape paintings. He resides in Missouri City, TX, is married to Jeannie and is the proud father of two grown daughters. A native Houstonian, Ross is active in his local church. He is an avid walker, follows professional surfing, and loves pretty much anything process-oriented.

mark@nextthinggroup.com
mark@rockretirementclub.com
www.nextthinggroup.com
www.linkedin.com/in/markross2
https://en-gb.facebook.com/yournextthing/ Instagram: @next_thing_art

Books:
The Encore Career Handbook: How to Make a Living and a Difference in the Second Half of Life
Don't Retire, REWIRE!:  5 Steps to Fulfilling Work That Fuels Your Passion, Suits Your Personality, and Paperback
Launch Your Encore: Finding Adventure and Purpose Later in Life, by Hans Finzel & Rick Hicks
How to Live Forever: The Enduring Power of Connecting the Generations, by Marc Freedman
Encore: Finding Work That Matters in the Second Half of Life, by Marc Freedman
The Next Right Thing: A Simple, Soulful Practice for Making Life Decisions , by Emily P. Freeman

Websites:
Encompass Life Coaching
The Realife Process®
Second Act Stories – with Andy Levine
My Lifestyle Career | Profit From Your Passions During Retirement
Homepage - encore.org
Top five regrets of the dying | Death and dying | The Guardian

Transcript

Tim Austin: 0:02

Welcome everybody. It is so good to be back with you for our first episode of navigate 2021. And I am so excited for what lies ahead in terms of the guests we have lined up and the themes and topics we're going to explore together. We've been listening to some feedback and as a result, we'll be making some changes mainly in terms of episode and lane. So stay tuned for some shorter episodes that you can take with you on that 15 or 20 minute commute that walk, that workout or whatever you do when listening in you're in the right place, because you're in for a real tree today. Joining me is my friend Mark Ross. Mark is a certified professional life and leadership coach as owner and founder of next thing, group a coaching and consulting firm. He guides individuals through personal transformation and professional transition. Mark is also an artist and landscape architect. He built his coaching firm on the foundation of three decades of organizational and operate operational leadership, bringing balance and promoting the intentional action of work teams across the city of Houston. When not coaching Ross brings together his love of art and architecture by creating visual music to inspire the world through expressionistic landscape paintings. He resides in Missouri city. Texas is married to Jeannie and is the proud father of two grown daughters. A native Houstonian Ross is active in his local church. He's an avid walker follows professional surfing and loves pretty much anything process oriented. So thanks for listening. And without further ado, let's head over to my conversation with Mark Ross. All right, well, Mark, Kate, thanks so much for joining me on this episode for this episode of navigate. I'm really, really excited to, to have this conversation with you today.

Mark Ross: 2:02

Thank you, Tim. I'm excited to be here.

Tim Austin: 2:05

So you are, um, maybe we can just start by you telling us a little bit more about a little bit about your journey. Um, uh, some, maybe some fun facts to know and tell about Mark Ross.

Mark Ross: 2:18

Okay. I always like to go back to the beginning in childhood and if we have a pretty happy childhood, it's a good place to go, just to say, where did I start all this? And I just remember as a kid, some fun facts about me are, is it, I just love to explore. We would go up my grandmother's attic when we'd spend the night over there. And they had at that time, of course, no internet, no cell phones, no social media. Of course, I'm 64. So you understand that, but they had national geographic magazines. And I remember those. Yeah, I was mesmerized by the pictures and the possibilities and the exploration. Then I wanted to be a world traveler. I grew a little older, uh, in my adolescent years, I said, I want to be an artist because I just loved art. And then I said, no, I want to be a botanist because I love plants and flowers. And, and then I said, no, I'm going to be an architect because my dad used to be a project manager for a large oil company, building buildings and so forth. So I had the art and the architecture and the landscape, and it all came together in the study of landscape architecture when I went to college and that's kind of, uh, where the childhood informed my future career, which ended up being a small business for awhile, that my brother and I owned. Uh, it was oddly a furniture building business for architects and interior designers. And then I shifted into a long-term career, completely unplanned into public and park development and operations for what I thought would be a year that ended up being 30 years. So, uh, I follow professional surfing. I was a surf board builder and enthusiastic, and I have all kinds of interests. So that's some fun facts about me is I eat my oatmeal every morning for five to 10 minutes and get the recap on the world surf league online to watch all the fantastic stuff about what's going on in the world of surfing.

Tim Austin: 4:23

Yeah. Well, that's much better than what's a much more intriguing and interesting than what's going on in Georgia right now, I think. Right.

Mark Ross: 4:31

I think so the distraction for sure, for me.

Tim Austin: 4:35

Sure. Um, well, that's great. So now this is something and we have a relationship, uh, just to let our listeners know that, um, you you've coached me and have been coaching me through a lot of change in the season. I'm in through a lot of transition. Um, so you're not only a great coach, but you also bring this unique, interesting, uh, experience as a, as a landscape landscape architect and an artist. And, uh, and then, but then I also heard you say furniture. And so we have something in common because me and my brother started a business when I was, uh, just out of high school. And, uh, we started a furniture building furniture making business, and that was when futon furniture was really big. So we started a little making a futon furniture. So that was a season that, uh, w we had, but we go back, I go back a long ways with furniture. Cause my dad was in the furniture business as well. So cool. Yeah. Yeah. Well, okay. So, um, you are a retired executive and this is, I'm just getting this from your bio, so you can expand on this and, uh, but your, it says you're a retired executive, but you're also, and I love this, this phrase here, a rewired Encore. Prenuer, that's, that's an interesting phrase there. So what does that mean?

Mark Ross: 5:58

Well, first I can't claim the word either one rewired or Encore preneur, but I heard them and looked into them and I said, that's me in this second season of life or this season of life that I'm in. So retired from one long career, but I didn't want to just retire, which is a French word, meaning to withdraw and do nothing. Uh, I wanted to rewire my energy for things that interested me at my pace and move in a new direction. So Encore preneur just means that I have the freedom that I can enjoy to pursue the work and the life that matters most in my second half. And I don't have the same kind of pressures that a new business owner would have with generating income, to meet cashflow needs and family obligations and responsibilities. Uh, I do generate income, but it's not because I have to it's because I want to, and I have some big goals that need to be funded somehow. And, uh, that's why I call myself an Encore preneur. It's really an entrepreneurial mindset in the second half with a different set of pressures.

Tim Austin: 7:13

I love that an entrepreneurial mindset in the second half. And you, and you mentioned having some big goals, um, having the freedom to, to pursue those goals. And I love that because a lot of times when we, when, when we look at the prospects of retire retirement, um, and some kind of midwife, or, or even into our fifth, you know, in fifties and sixties transitions, we think of, do I have enough? So I can kind of coast, you know, and, and, and just kind of maintain. And, and yet I love the fact that you're saying no, I to have big goals, I want to pursue in this, in this season of my life. So, um, that's very inspiring and encouraging, um, for, and I think that a lot of, um, those that tuned into this podcast are in maybe a season of, of change. Um, maybe they've been doing something for a long time along, you know, a lot of years and have some other dreams, have some other goals or some situation has forced them to is forcing them kind of there's pressure to, to actually make that shift. Uh, maybe it's a rug pulled out transition that they just, you know, they have no choice over, or, but needless, whatever the case, whatever the circumstances are in this situation, I think it's, it's, it's encouraging to see, to be able to open up that space for exploration. Like you're talking about to explore, look at what could be what's next. Um, we're both into our second half you and I, um, and, but we both have very different stories in terms of how we've transitioned into doing what really matters. And I'm still in that process of discovery and exploring. And I think I always will be, and in some ways, but I feel I'm getting closer, you know, to doing what matters and focusing more of my time on energy and energy on what matters. Um, and that's come through a pro lot, a prolonged transition. And you know that because you've been working with me for a couple of years now, I think, um, well, but what is your transition story in terms of finding that next thing? How did you discover that elusive sometimes elusive and next thing that we're looking for, that's out there?

Mark Ross: 9:42

Well, that's good, Tim. I used to believe long ago, you could surely find it in a book somewhere. Uh, and I searched and couldn't find one with all the answers that I wanted. So, you know, there's a book that is called halftime and it is really, I try to figure out what's different between halftime and second half and Encore time and all the different names that we can name these seasons in life. And half time, according to the book is when you kind of reach your forties, your mid forties and your looking around and going, where have I been? What have I done? Where am I going? And, um, it, it's a time of evaluation reflection sometimes not always that, you know, maybe a time when some people experiences midlife crisis, um, and that's such a broad term, but it can mean so many different things. But when I was in my forties, I've, I just assumed I need to keep doing what I was doing, taking care of my family, uh, trying to save enough for the future, enjoy some of the present. Uh, and I was, I have to say wrestling with this whole issue as a, as a Christian, as a believer, as a follower of Jesus, like what's my calling. And I was trying to find so much of that in my work and my job. And now that I can look back into that season and say, it's, you know, the calling is the thing that we're discovering, but there's so many applications of that calling in one job is certainly not fulfilling the calling in its fullness. So when I was in my fifties, I really began to have this unrest like, wow, I've been doing this work for a long time. It's really not what I planned. Some days I hated it. Some days I loved it. Other days, I just said, I'm grateful that I've been of it. And I, I, I was fishing really, really Tim for like, what what's next? I didn't think that I wanted to do this forever. I don't even know if I've ever met. So I did books and they were helpful. I did talk to friends, they tried to be helpful. Um, I did pray about it and got direction. And then I had lunch with a friend one day who was an executive coach. And that was kind of a turning point. And I didn't even know what an executive coach was. I was in my early fifties, and I just knew that I was feeling kind of burned out. We have two daughters and they were college age. And so we started thinking about what what's really next. I don't want to keep doing this. I was in a demanding profession that required a lot of energy. And, uh, I had risen to a level where reluctantly, but rightfully where it was like, it felt like 24 seven, the responsibility. And I couldn't seem to get away from it. It was really, uh, it wasn't over super healthy time, but again, there was a lot of good that came from it. So I talked to this guy at lunch and I explained my situation, went out to his car, got a book and handed it to me and said, read this. And like, he's a doctor read this and call me in 30 days. Um, and it was a book called don't retire, rewire. And I still remember looking at the cover of that book and saying, wow, this looks interesting. So finally, I found a book that had a framework in it that helped me see that what I was experiencing was pretty natural in the Western world. Wasn't all that uncommon. And there were stories in that book and they have a third edition now, by the way, that was the first edition back then, that was over 10 years ago. And it had stories of people who were trying to figure out what's next. And it showed a framework, a five step framework to try to work through some of that. And I thought you could do it in a weekend. And my friend, the executive coach said, ah, this is going to take some time if you're like most people. And the fact that you're even looking into this will be a great advantage to you in the future. Because a lot of, a lot of men, especially, don't try to figure it out. They just deal with the pain and the unrest. Right. Um, so there's a quick story to go. Along with that, that I heard from someone where he was visiting his friend out in the country, his friend lived in an old house farmhouse, as he approached the farmhouse on the porch, there's a dog. He noticed his dog is whimpering. He knocks on the screen, doors, sprint comes to the door, the dog continues to whimper. They sat down to talk. He says, why is your dog whimpering, man? What's what's wrong. So he's just laying down on a nail. He said, well, he said, well, why didn't it get off? He said, he will, when it gets, when it hurts enough. And that's what we do sometimes is we just lay on that nail until it hurts enough. Right. Take some action. So that was my action to work with that executive coach. I just really, that was all I did was have lunch here, the book. And I called him 30 days later and said, thank. And he said, glad I could help. Which led to a whole nother journey, uh, a little beyond that, but I'm going to pause this.

Tim Austin: 14:58

Okay. Yeah. Okay. So there's, so it's interesting that you said you discovered in that, in that, um, and that exploration stage for you, you discovered a framework. And so as I've gotten to know you, um, a little bit here, it's clear to me that you're a process guy, you like processes, and you've, you've shared, even with me some really, uh, great, uh, illustrations diagrams, things that dis that reveal a process for, for, for working through change for, for, um, achieving goals. Um, so your you're really articulate when it articulate, when it comes to explaining processes. So I personally struggle at times with process when it comes to transition seasons, because, and maybe it's just because my exposure to so many guys, uh, and couples that I've worked with going through transition that they're all so unique, um, their experiences and their stories and, and the way God leads them through change. Um, but, but I, at the same time, I know process is going to be helpful. Um, so tell me what, how, what that looked like for you in terms of your experience and how maybe you've brought that to bear on your, on the work you do with, with, um, with your clients.

Mark Ross: 16:19

Yeah. Thanks Tim. That, um, it's kind of a segue into the second part of that story. Okay. So in, in my, uh, one thing that we can do when we're trying to figure out what's next is just take some action. And some of us are planners and some of us are Leaper's and, uh, I'm more, much more of a planner. And I have friends who are much more of Leaper's. They leave them, they make a plan and I planned, and I eventually leap, uh, it depends on our personality, but I ended up working with, uh, another executive coach, uh, Dan Miller, who helped me really over a pretty short period of time figure out that I wasn't really stuck. I thought I was, I thought, what else can I do? I've been doing this for so long in this environment. It was a governmental environment, even though I had a lot of public service and private experience, I just felt like, wow, what else can I do? And more importantly, and here's the, here's the hard part? What do I want to do? You know? So I felt stuck because like, I don't know what I want to do. And I, I don't know much more than that. So if I really knew what I wanted to do, then I could take some action. So he helped me come up with a plan to just start with the direction, because there's power in direction. They change your direction, you may shift and that's uncommon, but at least you're it's, as we say, easier to steer a moving car than one that's not even turned on. Right. Um, so he helped me come up with a plan to exit what I was doing over a period of time. And I did execute that plan, uh, over a period of time. And two, two plus years after that, I retired for what I was doing, but I had, and here's the, here's the framework. I had a starting place. I had a direction and it came through a lot of introspection, like for that period of my life, wherever I've been, who am I now, where I want to be next? And what kind of things would I do to reflect that those were not all easy, clear, cut answers. And again, I'm a planner. So I wanted everything laid out. I didn't want to be guilty of making mistakes unnecessarily. That's a blessing and a curse kind of sorta with, for me. So I had a place to start. And so that's when that was what I call the exploration phase. Yeah. Those three years trying to, well, really, it was longer than that, trying to figure out what do I do next? You know, which way to go. And I couldn't I'd even then I didn't have it figured out. I had a starting place. You go into the next phase, which was really what I call the launch phase. Now, mind you, I didn't have these names and labels. When I was in the middle of all this, I can look back now with some reflection and say, this is what I call it. The exploration leading up to the launch, actually stepping into it and executing your plan. And that's really consisting of just small experiments along the way with that starting place and see how it fits or done or not. And really that was about a three-year process of kind of a roller coaster, especially when I retired from what I was doing. And I started a business. I didn't really, you know, my wife, even the other day, I said, I'm still waiting for that retirement trip. Well, I am too, but we got a little challenged with the COVID at the moment to go piece a big time travel, even though there's lots of stuff, stories to all these is your skin, appreciate parent caregiving, travel back and forth, all kinds of, I'm not even getting into that today, but that's real life. And it does enter in and I needed the freedom and the flex in my time to address all these things that I knew someday I might be responsible for. But then I found myself being responsible for taking care of both. Uh, when I say taken care of just being engaged and helping in-laws and parents move through their final years, and we have one parent remaining out of four that, uh, we still help. And as you know, and many of your listeners, that's, that's a life unto its own. But anyway, so there's the exploration phase, the launch phase, which was about three years for me, until I felt like, Oh, I, I found something that fit. And it really was related to what I had started doing, which was doing what kind of, what that guy that helped me was doing executives who are trying to figure out what's next. So I formed the next thing group, which is really pretty much just me and other resources. Um, but I help clients who are really growth mindset, individuals who want to continue pursuing what matters most in the second half of life. And the challenge of that is figuring out what that is,

Tim Austin: 21:20

Figuring out what that yeah. Yeah. The

Mark Ross: 21:23

Figuring out piece is one process and then the doing it is another process, right? Uh, so now I'm in what I call the refinement phase. Not like I've mastered this or anything, but I explored, I launched and now I'm, I'm adjusting, I'm reflecting, um, making adjustments in continuing to move forward with what's important to me, but there's other challenges that pop up that kind of get in the way, or at least we think they do sometimes. And I try to have, uh, and this may sound really rigid, but, but in reality, it's very fuzzy, like a 25 year plan in front of me, like who do I want to be in 25 years? And what are some outcomes that at this moment, moment, I think would be really awesome knowing, and hoping and praying, and really being assured as a follower of Jesus, that whatever those outcomes are that I have in mind, uh, pale in comparison to what they were really be, should I live that long on this earth, uh, as I follow him and dies for me. So, so to summarize, it's smoldering unrest that doesn't go away laying on that nail, the pain's there. And some days it's not as much as others, uh, looking within and then experimenting along the way. And you got to drive a stake in the ground at some point and say, I'm letting go of some stuff. And for me, it was a long career with a really good income and trusting the Lord and what comes in the future for provision and a vision for five years ago to live and work and create art and coach and do things like this that, uh, it actually happened with a lot of hard work and intention, but it happened in such a way that I could never, ever have figured that out like this. So that's a long story.

Tim Austin: 23:26

Well, you know, this whole, this whole exploring piece, um, I think that's a real area of stuckness for a lot of a lot of people because just coming to the place, um, where we, where we can say, I feel free, I have permission to explore. I give myself permission to explore, to dream, to brainstorm, to get in touch with my desires, because like you said, that that whole area, that whole area of desire can kind of go, um, stagnant, numb, you know, because of just whether we've just, maybe just haven't given ourselves permission to do that for so long. And so it's a Neal new, uh, a new skill kind of degree, you know, to, to get in touch with a new area of our, of our brain and our heart and to get in touch with that area of desire. So I love that piece on X, just step that first part of just giving yourself permission to explore.

Mark Ross: 24:30

Mm. And you said something important to him that some of this does involve developing skills, knowledge, and skills of how to manage our time and our resources in this second half, because it's not quite the same as it was in the first, usually you had traditional employment and so forth, your day was pretty well mapped out. You were responsible for, whoever's paying you to produce whatever they're expecting you to produce. And now, uh, I can create all that. And that's the fun in it. And it's also the frustration at times.

Tim Austin: 25:03

Yes. Yeah. That's so true. Yeah. That's the freedom and the fun, but it's also can be the frustration and the feeling of being stuck or overwhelmed or whatever that, whatever that go to is for us. So, yeah. Um, so in terms of feeling stuck, um, and it's something, I think a lot of us midlifers second half people can relate to what are, what are some ways you've helped people in their second half of life to get unstuck and move toward the next thing. And I, and I think some of that is probably in, is, is, uh, around this whole framework that you've just, um, unpacked a little bit for us, but is there anything else that you would say around that?

Mark Ross: 25:52

I think the key, the key to it, and there, there are a lot of different frameworks available and I've discovered 10 there's more and more because more of us are in this space than ever have been before in some of us want to write about it and talk about it and help others with how they've done it. So, uh, depending on who I'm working with, I may refer them to a certain resource, a book that has a framework that would resonate in line with who they are, because everyone's unique, everyone's different. Um, but it almost always involves at least some initial introspection of ourselves, what our talents skills and abilities. What's, what's our personality. How are we gifted? And then circling back to, for a really fresh start to what interested us as kids. There's a lot of dynamite in that. And sometimes whatever interested us as kids, as young children, we can remember if we think about it hard enough, but we're reluctant to do so because that's just not practical. That's just not possible. We've told ourselves that for so long that we believe it. And yet when I, when I look back at what interested me when I was a kid, it's the same things that interests me right now. Now I have. And I'm so glad you said this word about permission that, uh, for example, I am, uh, moved into the direction of executive coaching and I'm also an artist, but it took me a while to admit that I'm an artist to charge money for my art, to give myself permission, to create art, uh, and, and call it a part of my business and all of these things. It's taken time for me to do all that. And, and now when someone says, who are you sometimes honestly, forget, uh, I'm, I'm this I'm that? And I forget to say, and they say, yeah, you're an artist too. Oh yeah, I'm an artist. Um, but I'm not afraid to admit that anymore, but giving ourselves permission is a big deal, especially for so many reasons in this second half of life. And I think this getting unstuck question, um, for many of us is a tough one because we just have so many things we've wrapped around our minds that this isn't practical, this isn't responsible, this isn't prudent, this isn't profitable. And it all depends on how you want to define profit. There's a return on investment and return on energy return on an on relationship. So many ways to enrich our lives.

Tim Austin: 28:40

Yeah. Yeah. So true Mark. Yeah. And I love what you said about coming to terms with who are we, what are we, what do we do? You know, can I be an artist and an executive coach? Why yes, I can, but, but that's a process of coming come, you know, giving ourselves permission, coming to terms with, with what that could look like. And, um, sometimes I think we have to have this one solid answer. You know, we put that pressure on ourselves or outside forces tend to put that pressure. We feel that pressure to, to, to conform to that mold, um, you know, and have this identity wrapped up in one thing. But I love the fact that we can do and express it, going back to calling various, various expressions of our calling, um, our callings, um, look different, different seasons of life in terms of how they're expressed. So I love, I love what you're saying about

Mark Ross: 29:42

Yes, sir.

Tim Austin: 29:43

Well, good. So let's, um, just staying on that theme of struggle, um, when it comes to processing and discovering what that next thing might be for someone in transition. Um, I know for me, and it sounds like for you as well, that my transition was prolonged. It lasted several years. I mean, I remember reading that book. Um, what was the, what was the first book that you mentioned early on in the podcast? Yes. I remember reading, uh, that book in my early forties and yet from my early forties until, um, about fifth until I was 50. So eight years after that, I continued to do the same thing as an overseas worker. And, um, and yet that did start me on a process of reflection and move me toward, continuing to, and then I would pick up another book along the way, or have another conversation along the way. And it would propel me in, you know, down that path a little further. So, um, so we, but, but, so there are resources out there, like you said, there's more people riding, more people, um, talking about this, um, podcasting about this. So, um, but let's talk about some ways folks can engage and leverage this space of not knowing that space of uncertainty around that and turn it into something positive because just normal, whatever we call normal life. Uh, it's, it's hard to, to, to create that space, but now with in, and maybe COVID has helped in some cases for some people kind of force them into a space like that, or they feel free now to, to explore it. And maybe for some it's, it's stifling some of that creative energy. So let's talk about that. What are some ways, um, you feel that's maybe helped you or, or you help others, um, engage that space of uncertainty?

Mark Ross: 31:49

Well, maybe, maybe the good place to start with that is, or to pick up wanting to just say, it's okay to be uncertain. It's pretty normal for a lot of us. And depending on again, our personality types, if we're, you know, a hard driver, we want to know here's the goal, here's the path, here's the proof. And, uh, and, and, you know, that needs to work for people that are wired that way. For me, for those who are Enneagram enthusiasts, I'm, I'm a tight nine on the Enneagram and I need to process stuff. That's one of the reasons I like process, but I don't, I don't even when my wife says you need to go to the doctor and get a checkup, say, okay, I need to, I don't say this to her, but I'm processing. Okay. When, when would that best fit in with my calendar? And she, on the other hand, we'll just schedule an appointment and go, I go, Oh, that's way too fast for me. I need to think about this, but I think it's okay to be uncertain. And it's okay to honor who you are and your personality type. If you're hard driver, then drive at it hard, but just give yourself permission to know you don't have to figure it all out. Maybe you're used to that, but maybe guess what, maybe it's time to accept that. Uh, maybe you'll explain more rapidly with possibilities and come up with a conclusion faster than I would. And that works for you, which is fine. But one thing I learned Tim from one of the, my coaches and mentors is that just try small experiments with areas of interest and realize that sometimes this whole notion of purpose is either misunderstood or misapplied, or we make too much of it because some of us don't really know what are, we don't know what to do with purpose. So we feel good, guilty, and we feel uncertain. And we feel now that we're in the second half of life, when maybe we're positioned financially to not have to worry about money, the way we used to maybe think about it, maybe it's just there and the bills are paid. And now by golly, you better get busy with being certain about your purpose and make something of your life in this last third or last half. And all I know is this, that in hearing stories of many, many people in this second half fifties, sixties, and on up, everyone has a story. Everyone who's honest says it took a lot longer than they thought it would or should. And they learned a ton along the way, and they still keep learning, but they have been able to figure out what works for them. It's kind of like here in Texas, you know, everybody owns a horse, but it's kind of like getting in the saddle and learning how to ride until they go, Oh, this South fits me or yes. Or guess what? This uncertainty, these saddles fit me. Maybe it's not a next thing. It's next things, right? It's a combination. It's a hybrid. It's a, it's a popery of different possibilities, the mosaic, and often that's what it is because this one, one thing I'm a member of different communities. And one of them is a career pivot where people in their forties, he's fifties, midlife ish give or take some older, uh, either want to, or need to keep it working to generate income, right? And this struggles in the journey of doing that, but they all have pretty much one thing in common. If you listen to all the voices at once, and that is, we want more freedom to work our way. That's what, that's what they're all saying. So, and we get to that place in our lives where whether we have to work for money or get to work for money, uh, we kinda sorta want to do it as much as possible, our way, uh, that fits us in our lifestyles because we have other responsibilities and other interests that enter in that maybe we can take advantage of, or have to take care of now that we didn't have to up until this point. So this uncertainty, um, you may have it figured out for one season and next year, things may change and look at this last year for, for a lot of us, it was like very difficult for some of us. It may have been difficult, but super, uh, profitable in different ways. And, uh, I know I have a couple of daughters that one's newly married and has been working from home ever since. And now she really likes it and nasty space with going back to the office. So all the things, whether we're young middle-aged or getting older, this issue of uncertainty is always with us. We live with it and it's how do we live in the present and delight in today while we're diligent about tomorrow to make plans and preparation, and it's different for each of us, but that's, that's what I'd say about the uncertainty is that, you know what, that's pretty normal. And, uh, sometimes we just have to live with it for awhile and get comfortable with it and snuggle up with it sometimes and say, I'm not the only one who's uncertain.

Tim Austin: 37:11

Yeah. Yeah. And I think some of that has to do with God's silence, uh, in the transition seasons as well, and getting comfortable in that space. Um, for me, I know it was, and, but just what you're saying is so true, just, just normalizing this uncertainty. And then the other thing you said that stood out to me was this whole idea of it could be the next thing, things, plural, you know, it's not necessarily moving from one thing to the next. It could be holding onto something that you've been doing. Um, but at the same time, reaching out for, for something new and, and maybe a gradual shift to that, not just all at once. And, um, I like the analogy, I think it's in one of, um, bridges books about transition, but he talks about the mountain climber who does well to hold on to, you know, someone in transition does well, like a, you know, a mountain climber to hold on and to, to hold on with one hand, you know, firmly to the thing that is already in place is already there for them provide some stability and some structure, you know, and while reaching out for that next holding point, um, to grab onto. And I thought that's a good analogy because a lot of times, yeah, yeah. Some people transition just letting go of everything and moving to the next thing. But some of us aren't wired that way and we need to kind of hold on to that and then gradually work our way up toward the next thing. So, yeah. Good. Well, um, we're kind of getting ready to wrap up the conversation here, Mark. It's been so good and I just really think we'll, we'll, you know, you mentioned this is another area we, um, we struggle with and we deal with in, in, um, the second half of life is supporting aging parents. And maybe this, you know, as you were talking about this, maybe this could be another conversation for another day, but, but, uh, cause that is part of that is a big part of transition as well. But what are you tell us? What are you currently working on we're most excited about? Um, and what are what's what's some, what are some of the best ways for our listeners to connect with?

Mark Ross: 39:29

Sure. I'll, I'll start with the last question first. And, uh, yeah. I have a website that I use just to introduce myself it's next thing, group.com, next thing, group.com spelled out just like that. Um, and my email is Mark, next thing, group.com. And you know, today you can Google and find me whether I want you to or not. And I want you to, of course, so that's how you can connect with me. Um, also I'm a team host in a club. It's a paid community called rock retirement club, which is a collection of 450 plus members who are either approaching retirement or in it. Then the whole, the whole point of it is, is education and information and community around this whole issue of how do we make the best of the second half of life so that we can really rock it, you know, not rock away, but rock it. And I'm excited in there because we have, uh, different themes this year that are topical. If anyone wanted to listen to free podcast, the retirement answer, man, the retirement answer, man, uh, we just finished up a month long, a segment on the parent project taking care of aging parents. And that was a four week series in December. You can pick up anyone who's interested. So there's, I'm excited about being a inserting as a team host in there and excited about continuing to work with my one-on-one clients, just helping them move through these transitions. And I've been working slowly as a nine on the Enneagram on a, uh, a guidebook, uh, that I'm still working on and I hope to have it published. That's not a good coach thing. I hope to, I planned to have it published by me at least by the end of the year. And it's just the Encore preneurial guide book in my journey and a framework for others who might be interested in doing something similar.

Tim Austin: 41:34

Okay. All right. I can't wait to get my hands on a copy of that.

Mark Ross: 41:37

Those are some things yeah. Then in, uh, I do somehow have a big goal this year. I don't know how we're going to do it, but to do at least one overseas trip with my wife. Uh, and I don't know how, when we're going to do all that with what's going on, but it's, I'm telling, I'm telling everyone this and preaching to myself. If you have a vision and you have it clearly stated or clearly enough things begin to happen to help you move toward that becoming reality. And I can attest to that with five years ago, I wrote down a vision of everything I've been talking about right now, and it's not like it just happened that I was clear enough to know to help it pull me toward it. And when I saw opportunities that aligned with that, um, most of the time I took advantage of them, if they didn't align with it, I'd said it, it doesn't make sense, even though it looks really interesting. And that's one more tip for those who may have more freedom now in life than they ever had is that man, you can get pulled in so many different directions that you get nowhere

Tim Austin: 42:44

That's so true. So learning how to say, say no to, what's not on your, your, your goal is there. Yeah. Good. Good. All right. Great. Um, so covered some great stuff today. Uh, just before we go, is there anything else that you feel may be important for our listeners to know that we haven't already touched on?

Mark Ross: 43:07

I think one thing that, um, I like to think I'm good at, but I have to work at it is that, you know, I'll kind of say it like this, that transition is not a solo sport. It really pays to have, uh, the content, which is the learning and the information and the podcasts and so forth and community, uh, that are a collection of like-minded people kind of in the same boat, kinda sorta are close enough. And then, and this is not a pitch at all for me, but to have some one-on-one work with somebody who understands, uh, it could be a coach, it could be a counselor, it could be a consultant. It just depends on what your needs are. But so the content, the coaching and the community are the three things that really can help you. I like the analogy of being at the airport when we used to do all that. And we will again, and you have the choice in a long airport and you're in a big hurry to hop on the people mover or to run beside it with your bags and all the obstacles. If you get the right kind of help along the way, uh, you can be on that people mover and get there a whole lot faster without as many obstacles.

Tim Austin: 44:28

I love that, Mark. Thank you. Yeah, that's good. It's not a transition is not a solo sport and that is so true. And that's something that I also have discovered. Um, and it's not so much about, uh, having, you know, going, if you're an entrepreneur entrepreneur, for example, and you're moving into something new, um, it's not necessarily about hiring people or things like that, but it's building your team. And however you're able to do that support team. Um, I I've found some community, some coaching communities that I've been able to connect with that encourage me and support me along the way. I have a great coach by the way. And I have some people in my circle that support me through my team there, I call them my team, you know, and I think that is so true. Um, it's not a solo sport. And even if you can't afford to hire anybody or you don't want to hire anybody, that's neither here nor there it's really about who is in my support was on my support team. Who are those people? I can draw encouragement, resources, inspiration. Yeah. Collaboration. Yeah. So many

Mark Ross: 45:39

Be patient with yourself. Be kind to yourself along the way, but get busy and, and, uh, be intentional.

Tim Austin: 45:45

Good. Good, good. Well, uh, Mark, it's been a real treat to have you on the podcast. I know our listeners are going to have a ton of takeaways today from our time together. Um, but when it comes to something like retirement and transition in general, there's always more so we'll have to do this again. You'll have to come back.

Mark Ross: 46:07

It's been fun, Tim and profitable for me. Thank you.

Tim Austin: 46:10

Thank you, Mark. Have a great rest of your day there down in Texas.

Mark Ross: 46:15

We'll do Mark

Tim Austin: 46:17

Reminded us today that in order to successfully navigate transition, we need a combination of content, coaching and community what's feeding and inspiring you. What does your support community look like? Transition is not a solo sport. He also said something that is so true when we feel stuck in transition and we've all been there. He said, just start there's power in movement and direction, working with a coach, which is a great way to just start to just get the conversation. Go book a discovery call with me and encompass life coaching.com to explore transition coaching opportunities in the new year. That's all for today. Folks. Thanks for joining me for this episode of navigate. If this has been helpful to you, would you mind rating the podcast, writing a review and sharing on social media? And of course you can always subscribe so that you're sure to get in on the next episode until next time.