EP. 21 "I Moved Back": Joy Salewa on the Diaspora Dream and the Reality of Return

Joy Salewa left a high-level finance career in London to pursue the "diaspora dream" in Nigeria. She joins us to discuss the challenging realities that forced her to leave again and how she channeled that experience into the I Moved Back podcast. We explore the real cost of doing business in Nigeria and dive into the specific challenges female founders encounter when raising capital in a system not always built for them.

Transcript

Speaker 0:01

Welcome everyone to the WeWin podcast powered by Accelerate Her Africa in partnership with the Human Pattern Institute. I'm so glad to have you here with us today. I am your host, Lolita Ejiofor. What would make someone leave the pinnacle of London's financial district, hedge funds, a quantitative analysis, the security of a CFA designation, to relocate to Lagos and bet everything on Africa's untapped potential? Today's guest didn't just make that move, she documented it. She turned her relocation into a roadmap for others, and she built two thriving businesses that are now reshaping how the diasporas engage with the continent. Meet Salewa Isaac, a woman who spent years mastering the language of global finances as a quantitative analyst at firms like Mann Group and Columbia Thread Needle, where she built models, analyzed equity markets, and operated at the highest level of one of the world's most competitive industries. But in 2020, something shifted. While many were retreating during the global pandemic, Salewa was advancing towards home, Nigeria. She didn't come home empty-handed though. Today, she's the CEO of Excel Master, where she provides CFO as a service, business automation, and market entry strategies to global enterprises and SMEs looking to successfully transition into the African markets. She's also the founder of Afri Treasure, a thriving global business network connecting individuals of African descent to collaborate, build and create wealth across the continent and the diaspora. I'm thrilled to welcome this lady. Let's go. Hello, Salewa. It's so great to have you here with us today.

Speaker 1 2:17

Thank you so. Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 2:20

So your early career in London was at the highest level of finance as a quantitative analyst at major firms like Mann Group and Columbia Thread Needle. Can you paint a picture of that work? What kind of world was that? And what was the ambition you were building for yourself?

Speaker 1 2:42

Sure. So I studied economics and finance for my undergrad, and I was very dissatisfied with the course. I actually felt like it didn't teach me what I wanted to know, which was how to invest in the stock market. So I didn't go to work straight away. I actually did a master's immediately after, and I did investment management. Now that was more satisfactory for me because it actually taught me how to manage a portfolio, it taught me how to invest in different assets, and so then I was ready for the workplace. Now I was quite blessed because my first job was at a very small hedge fund. The staff was like 13 people, and what normally happens in the industry at that time, although things have changed maybe like 10 years on, is you normally typically work on the bank or like what they call the sell side, usually who would hire graduates, and then you know, after like 10 to 15 years in one's career, they're then eligible to work at hedge funds because hedge funds typically recruit from that side. But I was blessed enough to get a job at a hedge fund straight away, and then I ended up working on what you call the buy side uh throughout my whole career. So when I got the job as a research analyst at Mang Group, yeah, it was a blessing. I was working with portfolio managers that were managing like millions of pounds, you know, and you get an insight into where people's pensions are being invested, where high and worth individuals are investing their money, and it's what the responsibility is on the people that have to invest their money. There's a lot of reporting responsibilities and things, so yeah, it was a blessing. And then when I was at Mang Group, I realized hold on, everything's becoming more techie, things are becoming more automated. I could just see discretionary investing becoming a thing of the past. And bearing in mind, this was like seven years ago, I was saying this. Uh, so I said, Okay, let me teach myself how to code so that I can learn how to invest. Uh, I say automatically, but how to use code to invest, which is quantitative investing. So I did that, I taught myself how to code, and by the grace of God, I only give credit to God for this. I got a job as a quantitative analyst at Columbia Thread Needle.

Speaker 5:04

Wow, that's so remarkable. That shows how brilliant you are. For you to have recognized seven years ago that things were becoming more automated, more technical, and you wanted to understand the makings, the workings of that technicality. You decided to train yourself to code. Most people wouldn't do that, but I see your uh logic behind it, and it's paid off. You then made the decision to return to Nigeria, a move that so many in diaspora dream of. What was the specific dream you were chasing? What impact did you hope to make by bringing your elite skills back home?

Speaker 1 5:45

Yeah, so again, this is just God because a lot of people lockdown affected people differently. For me, it was a big blessing. So I had just got my job at Columbia Thread Needle and I hadn't worked three days in the office, Lolita, before lockdown. Wow. So it was disappointing to me because I got the job of my dreams, I'm just meeting my colleagues who I loved, and I was like, no, you know. So was working from home and was doing that, and then I think because my parents live in Nigeria, and my dad actually lives in the Budja. So I remember saying to him around November time, like, I just want to come and chill with you for a bit. Can I do that? And he was like, Come on, like, yes, please, like, because we're best friends, so he's like, Come, let's spend time together. So I I booked a ticket to go. I spent time with him for a couple weeks, and then I went to Lagos, and I was only planning to stay in Lagos for a couple weeks. However, I was staying in Lagos and I was like, Hold on, this makes so much sense. Like, why am I going back again? So I extended my ticket. This is January by this time, and I was sending my ticket uh about another month or so, and another month came, and I was like, Why am I doing this? So then I extended it again till April. So that happened, and I was just like, I want this, you know. So I was talking to a friend, and I was I had come back in that April, and I was talking to a friend, I'd rung him, and I was like, I'm depressed, I wasn't clinically depressed, it was it was lingo, and I was like, I just miss Nigeria, like I just want to go back. And he was like, Yeah, well, honestly, you know, I've been having this idea about uh a food startup and you know, food delivery companies, and I was like, Oh my god, that is such a smart idea because when I was there, I literally didn't like I used Jumia at the time, and they were terrible, like my food didn't even come. So I was like, There's definitely a gap in the market for this. When I tell you the next day, we literally had a list of like tech companies to interview to start building up this product. We were working on the technical requirements, it was literally like the next day. So we did that, we did so much work uh over the next couple months, and then we officially moved back around September.

Speaker 2 8:12

Right.

Speaker 1 8:12

So that was the beginning of my journey in Nigeria. It was to add value via starting a food tech startup. Wow, so where did you leave things with Colombia? Um that was the end of it. Yeah, in April. That was the end of my time with Colombia.

Speaker 8:30

Yeah, right. Some we say that that was pure serendipity for you to have just gotten a job and then COVID, and then you go and spend some time in Nigeria, and before you know it, you're you're on a new path, you've pivoted to startups. That's brilliant. Okay, so that dream, as we know, collided with the harsh reality. You shared that you were subjected to sexual harassment in a toxic male-dominated sector, which ultimately forced you to leave Nigeria again. For the many women listening who have had their ambitions torted by a system that was built to exclude them, can you talk about the experience and the painful decision to have to leave your dream behind?

Speaker 1 9:20

So it was quite a long journey because I was in Nigeria for like three three to four years. But what you've asked, the issue, those issues were very prominent when I was doing the food tech starter. So at that time we were working with developers, but we were also seeking investment, right? For pre-seed. Now that means that you're having meetings and you're meeting different people and you're pitching yourself. And I just remember like multiple incidents happened, you know, and you know Nigeria is a different environment, so you'd have an investor say, Okay, come and meet me at the club. And the thing is, you can't really write that off. If you know Nigeria, you know we're a very work hard, play hard uh city in Lagos, and the two do tend to work together, so you wouldn't necessarily think it's a red flag, it might be a yellow one. Um, but yeah, that didn't turn out well, you know. I remember having meetings as well, and um, yeah, things were just inappropriate. And I remember calling my dad one day, and I'm like, Men and women can't be friends in Nigeria, can they? And he was like, Yeah, you know what they're like, the men have a sweet mouth, etc. etc. So it was quite frustrating, and it got to the point where I said to my male business partner, like, because he was in London at the time because of family, he was kind of going back and forth while I was permanently there, and at the time I said to him, Okay, I can't do any more meetings alone, like you're gonna have to be present because there's just a fundamental like lack of respect with boundaries. So we did that, but what actually led to the demise of that startup was a lack of quality from the tech team. So we had actually moved development teams like three times, and I was dealing with things like they used to mock me, they used to be like, Oh, Salewa's an English teacher because I'm looking at the app, yeah, and I'm seeing spelling mistakes, and I cannot deploy an app to restore uh spelling mistakes. It literally screams on professionalism, but that was an issue. So, for those that are technologically minded, like the QA was me doing that, and a lot of it was just actually just pointing out spelling mistakes, you know. There were other issues, like you know, design is quite mathematical, you need things to be centered, the eye picks up on things that are not right, so there was a lot of that, and I think they were quite frustrated with that side of me, you know, because again, a lot of things fly in Nigeria, but I didn't want things to fly, I wanted it to be the best, so yeah, we moved teams like three times, we got investment as well a couple times, but it just the the tech aspect of it drained our resources. So, my biggest advice and lesson with that is don't start a tech business without having a tech co-founder because what I noticed was uh another team that started their solution, this they their CTO coded the solution. So, if you have someone on the founding team that's actually actively working on it can code, you're obviously gonna get a lot further than someone hiring externals to to code. So, yeah, that was sad, but then I had to pivot. So then I was like, okay, what skills do I have and how do I monetize this? Because by that time, Lagos has turned me into a hustler. My career is done, I'm not trying to go back, even if I wanted to. Um, so I was like, okay, obviously, finance investment that's what I've done my whole life. So that's when I started my consultancy business, and it was called Excel Master because I'm obsessed with Microsoft Excel, like I watch Microsoft Excel championships on YouTube, like it's it's yeah, it's so cool. Like they give them challenges and make them race against each other. But I was like, okay, I know how to use Excel very well. I also love design, and I'd learn a lot of design when working on the app. So I was designing dashboards and I was doing company evaluation, CFO as a service, all those kind of skills. Um, and that picked up very, very quickly, like almost immediately. And the beautiful thing about Lagos again is because it's a hustling environment, your name flies, so I'll just be chilling and someone will call me and be like, I've got someone for you. This company wants this, or this person wants to do this. So, yeah, that that went really well. Um, so I'll get to why I left Lagos later, but uh that also wasn't planned either. We'll we'll get there.

Speaker 13:41

Yeah, but we you've we've picked up some valuable lessons from what you've just described in terms of having a technical team. It's best to have a founder that's technical and able to provide those solutions a lot quicker. But also, what I'm hearing is you are very agile and you were able to know when to pivot and change course and start something else. And I'm sure that kept you going in Lagos because Lagos is ever changing, always moving fast.

Speaker 2 14:11

Yeah.

Speaker 14:12

You created the I Moved Back podcast, where you explore the very UK versus Nigeria dynamic that you've lived through. What was the catalyst for starting that? And what were the conversations you felt you needed to have both for yourself and for the community?

Speaker 1 14:33

That's such an excellent question. So at the time, I think around that January time when I said I'd extended my ticket the first time, my uncle was like to me, um, you should start a blog? Because obviously, I was a chronic galavanter. I was literally out of the house like 89% of the time. And yeah, I was active and I was bold. I was going to the mainland by myself, like to the market, like I had no business doing such, but I was really trying to see like the whole Nigeria, not just be in my little bubble in VI. So, so yeah, he said I should start a blog. So I did, and I started blogging on all aspects, and I literally called the website imoveback.com, and I announced the launch and I got such good feedback, you know. And I was blogging on typical business, obviously, just journaling, you know, like I would be like seven red flags when doing business in Africa. I was doing restaurant reviews, I was doing travel, like okay, this is where you should stay if you're going to Talqua Bay. I was giving the full kind of rundown, like I'm from Ondo State, so I went to Idon Re Hills and climbed the mountain. Wow. I would blog about that, and it was good because, from an SEO perspective, if someone's typing in Idon Re Hills, they're finding my blog, and then from my blog, they're finding other things that I had on there. I had quizzes on there, I had written interviews with my fellow um colleagues like in the startup industry. So, so yeah, I started doing that, and then another one, another person who is amazing. So, I would definitely recommend checking out this company called Pan Africa. It's run by a very close friend of mine, it's a solar energy business. So he is uh another Nigerian British like me, born and raised in the UK, and he actually moved back to Nigeria at the same time as me. And it's through meeting him and many others. I I call us the COVID babies. So I think like almost like 300-400 of us moved back the same time as me, which was like December 2021, as a result of COVID and working remotely whilst in Lagos. So he was great, he had a PhD, so I was like, Okay, this is my kind of friend, you know, obviously smart and intelligent. He had his own energy startup. So we were just gisting one time, and I think he was like, Yeah, we should start a podcast, and I was like, Yeah, that's so true. Like, we could just do it through my blog, like the audience is already there. So we filmed a pilot, which did good enough, like quite well, and then we just started being diligent with it every week. We were filming, and we used the studio of a friend that I did my master's degree with, so again, he had moved back as well, and so he had done the bold thing of starting a recording studio in Lagos, and so it was just beautiful because it was just like this is so random. I if someone had told me I'd be living in Lagos and I'm doing all this, I would have been like, mm-hmm. Um, so so we started the podcast. Now, the podcast was not just about moving back to Africa, it was literally interviewing everyone within our network because everyone with our network literally was a business owner. So we had people that like you know were selling yam chips, frozen yam chips, we had people that were in entertainment, you know, we had people that were like had shawarma businesses, it was the full range of entrepreneurs, real estate developers. So it was about giving people back home, which is our other home, like in the UK, and people that are in Africa, both perspectives, because what you find is, and it's really sad, when you move to Lagos, they don't think that we're one of them, and we think we're obviously Nigerian, but they think there's a stark difference between the two of us, and maybe to some degree they're right, and then obviously, maybe when they come here, we also there's a demarcation in you know, someone that's just come versus us that were born, so it is it's valid. So it was about giving a voice to both sides, speaking from both perspectives, and also having that business entrepreneurial aspect because myself and Patrick we are naturally entrepreneurial, so there was nothing that we were going to do that wouldn't have that. So, yeah, it was a lot of fun, and it would still be running today if I hadn't randomly also come back to the UK for you know reasons. Um, but it's coming back in a new way, yes, because I am rebranding the site. In fact, I've I've actually shut down imoveback.com and I've rebranded it now as AfriTreasure, which is relaunching again in January. And Afri Treasure is more about having a wealth intelligence network now because we have the WhatsApp groups, we have the UK US WhatsApp groups, we're gonna open the Dubai one soon, we have the business network, and you have to actually even apply to get in those groups because we are trying to really think about having a network across borders. It's not specific to Nigerians, it's African Americans, it's Caribbeans as well. So, yeah, I'm rebranding it and we're coming back with a new voice, a new kind of image to keep that message going. Yeah.

Speaker 20:01

Wow, your journey took so many turns, and it just shows your adventurous spirit. You were able to explore areas that a lot of us wouldn't even think of going. You've come from the UK and you're going into places where the locals are more familiar with, and and people from the UK will be a little bit apprehensive of going to these places, but you went there and not only that, you documented your journey. I would describe you as adventurous and not only just adventurous, you're audaciously adventurous. Okay, so now as the host of that podcast, you've become an analyst for the entire ecosystem. What is the most consistent and surprising theme you've heard from your guests about the real costs of building a business in Nigeria today?

Speaker 1 20:52

Oh, the thing that stood out to me the most was the issue regarding resource. So there's a multi-level issue there. There's the educational aspect, you know, even finding the skills, there's the brain drain aspect, which is like when the skills are there, they obviously don't want to be in Nigeria because the pay is actually ridiculous. Like I advocate for them, the pay's disgusting. And I think that us founders from here that are hiring them, we shouldn't be pricing their pay locally either. Like, we're in a bit of a more of a blessed situation, so I do think we should at least pay above market rate. So there's that aspect, but then there's also the morality aspect of staff theft. Like, almost no business is exempt from theft from employees, whether it's like physical theft, intellectual property. So that was the biggest thing and the biggest theme that was consistent amongst all the industries that we interviewed. So, yeah, but it's sad. I mean, if I'm to to kind of give stories, like my really close friend, she was like, her friend had a restaurant, and the stuff. We're using their own POSs, bringing their own bags of rice, and just it was their business basically. And they ran her to bankruptcy. The business, the restaurant doesn't exist today. I had another friend who owns a farm, a very close friend of mine, and he was like, He had to line his staff up and be like, guys, I'm begging you, just calm the ceiling down. Let's just break even first. He was even pleading with them, like, let's just break even first at the very least before we because the ceiling is just too much. You know, he said that he had a main kind of like Israeli client, and that person was like, I've seen this before, and he's like, It's not possible. After investigation, apparently, his general manager had basically replicated his business and was, you know, basically poaching the clients. So there's all kinds of stories, and yeah, I think uh founders need to put systems and controls in place to try to stop it. I do think so, but then they also have to make the effort to incentivize as well. You know, it's not a guarantee that they won't steal, but yeah, things that you can do, like better pay, valuing your staff. Nigeria, like they don't care how they speak to employees, you know, it's wrong. You shouldn't be insulting your staff, you shouldn't be telling them off in front of other people. Like, you need to know how to manage your emotions in the workplace. Those are things that literally become discrimination cases in the UK or the US, right? But over there, it's standard for your boss to embarrass you in front of people, so yeah, I think um it's sad, brain drain-wise, that's something that's systemic, and that's where the government needs to step in. So I don't see that changing, um, because any logical person can actually that started there, can kind of see that they have a little bit of a disadvantage in some aspects, they have strengths in other aspects because when I compare the average male Nigeria versus the average woman in the UK, they're more hustlers, they're more driven, they're more exposed. The average Nigerian male has actually a better understanding of the way other countries work. Whereas when you meet the average American male, they're quite myopic, you know. The average UK male, they're so used to like a salary that you can just kind of be complacent. So they're not disadvantaged in all aspects, but when you have brown water coming at your tap, when you're trying to work but you don't have consistent electricity, when you have a health issue and you don't know if the hospital even has the tools it needs to deal with you, when it you have to wake up at 4 or 5 a.m. to go to work, you know, and you're in traffic for another two, three hours to get home, when the roads are bad. There's just it gets to a point where you're like, there's got to be more to life than this. So the brain drain is something that many different departments of the government need to work together to address. Um, but yeah, it's it's definitely resource that's the biggest issue.

Speaker 24:56

Yeah, I I must say I'm not surprised by your responses. Um, a lot of people complain about theft, and it's something that's deeply ingrained in the mindset of workers that they must have for themselves more than you. And then the flip side, which you also mentioned, is when you're paying your workers, just because they're from Nigeria doesn't mean that you should match the low level of payments and salaries that they're used to. But I also think it's the other thing, the systemic things that the government needs to get involved with that is quite discouraging for people that want to come back to Nigeria to work or to start a business. It's something that a lot of people have complained about, some of my guests. But I know that there are change makers and I know there's hope. And people like you making a difference will eventually change the way we do things. So I think we should keep striving and moving forward regardless. Okay, so when you talk to founders who have returned from places like the UK, what is the single biggest reality check or culture shock they face when they try to apply a Western-style business model to the Nigerian market?

Speaker 1 26:11

Oh, such a beautiful question. I think it's the cost of doing business and just how difficult doing business is. It's quite multifaceted. For example, you could have an employee that it's not their fault. Like I've had someone whose generator was literally stolen, you know, they can't provide you the work if they're working from home, for example. Another big thing though, and I will say this because we had founders that had a lot of tech startups. I think the biggest lesson is things are still mostly done offline. So if you're trying to shoehorn a highly technological solution to that environment, you're bound to fail. You're bound to fail. So, so the biggest advice, and we even learned this, they'll be like, test it without the fancy stuff first, test it manually first, you know. Because one thing that you can say about Africans, we're very social, and it's actually a good thing. Whereas here, you could have a whole process flow and the person speaking to a robot, or they're doing the entire thing online. If you notice now in the UK, you barely see bank stuff, mostly you're dealing with machines, right? We don't operate that way as Africans. In fact, there was actually a study and research that was done that was like if you don't have human contact, especially very early on in your sales flow, the African isn't the typical African is not likely to trust it. So you can't just expect them to one day wake up and just deal with tech. In fact, the only Africans that may do that are the ones that I've exposed or the ones that have moved back, and that's a very tiny portion of the market. You have to get on the ground, you have to learn how to speak the language. And if you don't, which I guess someone like me wouldn't, you need to have someone in your team that can do that because then they their minds are at ease, their guards are down, and they can give you the feedback that you need, they can tell you what problems they're facing, and that person can decode them in a way that we can actually provide a solution to them. But to think that that solution would be fully technological, I don't think so. And even now in 2025, I still don't think so. So there needs to be kind of like a hybrid solution with them.

Speaker 28:20

Yeah, I agree with you. I find that people that don't trust systems just put anything in it and they say garbage in, garbage out, and then what you get at the end of it is not the true situation. So that human intervention is quite needed here in Nigeria and African general. Okay, so from your many conversations, what do you see as the biggest psychological battle that Nigerian founders are facing? Is it the fundraising, the infrastructure, or is it something deeper like loneliness or a pressure to maintain a certain image?

Speaker 1 29:00

This might be controversial, but there's something that they call like a founder-owner problem, where it's like sometimes when the founder of a company is also the CEO, uh, it can lead to issues in the business later. And in an environment like Nigeria, it's quite pronounced because any little inkling of someone having a little bit more money than someone else requires, not requires, but it tends to lead to like yes sir, yes, this, yes, boss, yes, ma. In fact, in Lagos, for example, you could be younger than someone, and just because you seem to have more money than them, they put you on some kind of pedestal. And in a business environment, what that leads to is this founder um and kind of like CEO developing an ego and quite a toxic ego, right? And if it's left unchecked, and it does happen, and you think it wouldn't happen to those of us that move back, but we're quite prone to it. If it's left unchecked, then the same things that we chastise the ones that haven't left Nigeria, the managers, the rude managers, the sexual harassment managers, the ones that are like Nigerian born and bred, the same way we chastise them, the ones that move back are also prone to becoming just the same way. So that's it's not something that's expected for me to say, but it is a chronic problem. Another problem is the mission that the founder is on. Um, because it's easier to raise funding over there than in the UK, for example. Some of them are just like, I'm just trying to make money, you know, because as the valuation of a company goes up, the value of the founder's shares grow up, and the amount of money that they could potentially cash out on through equity increases. So some of them, when you have conversations with them, like I don't care about legacy or mission or whatever, I just want to bake money, like I just want to fundraise, I don't care about that. So, again, you talk about staff stealing, but in a way, there's a lot of founders raising funds, you know, the use of funds slightly questionable, you know. So it does lead to businesses and up, some of them end up closing, and then Nigeria's reputation is in the news again. This big company that you never thought would close is closed due to like embezzlement and things like that. So there is also that aspect of it, and I and that that's why, in my response, I just want to put accountability on the founders rather than anyone else this time to be like you have to constantly keep yourself in check because of that environment. Sometimes you feel like if you can't beat them, join them. But no, that's when you need to like rein yourself in because it's happened to me. I used to look at someone very close to me and be like, just calm down. Why are you always shouting? Why are you always being aggressive? Just calm down. One year later, my friends are visiting me and they were like, just calm, just chill. And the minute they said that, I was like, Oh wow, so Lagos has really got to me like that. Like, I am now the one that's like you know, aggressively chasing, or like I ordered my food 10 minutes ago, how far, like you know, because it it does get to you, like, and if you're soft, they take advantage of you, so you're forced to harden up, but then it's a balance. So sometimes it's not your fault, but you have to be self-aware to check your ego, you have to be self-aware to know what your intentions are. You should be going back there to add value to your fellow people's lives. You could have been like them if your parent didn't make a decision to be an economic migrant to whatever country they went to so that you could earn a stronger currency, you would have ended up just like them. So I do think there is a duty and responsibility to provide value and not just use them as cheap talent. Uh, so yeah, yeah, that's what I would say.

Speaker 32:52

Totally. Uh, I really respect what you just said that accountability of founders. What is your mission? What is your purpose? Is it just to start up and cash out? And what does that leave? What sort of reputation does that leave for you as a founder when you start another line of business? Okay, as someone who's personally experienced a toxic male-dominated side of the finance sector, how much of that barrier do you still see in your conversations with female founders? Are they having a fundamentally different and more difficult experience raising capital than their male peers?

Speaker 1 33:33

It's hard to say because you don't know anyone behind closed doors. So, what I will say is Nigeria's a very sexually charged environment. You know, I'll just be honest. I always like to say things how it is. I always had this saying where I used to say prostitution is the currency there, and so why I say I can't speak for anyone behind closed doors is because you don't know what they're doing to get that check. Someone could tell you one thing and you know they're doing another thing. So, my all I can say, advice-wise, is to have males that can advocate for you. So I had a client, and my the way I was working was in stages, and they just weren't trying to release the last stage, and I was just gisting with my friend casually. He was like, Are they alright? He got on the phone straight away. I received that payment like within 24 hours. No joke. And so it's things like that that always just make me see that patriarchy is fine, that's how it is, it's okay. What that means to you as a woman is to align yourself with respectable men that, if you need to, can also kind of assist you through that process or can let some men know, listen, she's not that way, you're not gonna get what you want out of her. So it's either you do it properly or you don't do at all. And you as a woman have to be willing to walk away because if you there's no what deal? I always say to myself, I want to be able to look at myself in the mirror. That's what I used to say, you know, because there was a period when I was transitioning between the startup and my consultancy, there was a period where things were not buoyant just before it picked up, right? And I said to myself, like, I just want to be willing to look at myself in the mirror. So in that period, I ended up getting closer to God, and that's when things just boomed business-wise. But I I was with a conversation with um some of my uncles, and one of them was talking about uh a woman who worked in uh I believe oil and gas, and her boss would take her to meetings with clients like in in Banana Island, etc. And he made a statement and he was like, This girl just knew what to do, and I was like, hmm, uncle, what does that mean? It was like she's smart, she also now she's got her car, now she's got her house in Banana Island, etc. etc. And I'm like, I don't know how to do that, so yeah, if that's like how you want to do it, that's fine as long as you can live with it. I knew I couldn't live with it, so that's why I didn't go down that route. Instead, I was like, if this person wants something more for me to invest in the business or to provide value to the business, it's just not meant to be. Yeah, and that's okay because something else will come. There's ample amount of people, men and women, that could provide value to you. So it's not gonna change, it's actually going to get worse, I think, for a while, until these systems are put in place to penalize people that take advantage or or try to force themselves inappropriately. But until then, women, we have to just toughen up and we have to set our boundaries and we have to be willing to walk away. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 37:05

Absolutely, boundaries is everything. There has to be a point where you reach and say, no, this is not going to work, and no, period, and move on. Okay, Salewa, I remember when you said you were going to tell us the reason why you left Lagos. Tell us about that.

Speaker 1 37:24

Yeah, so it wasn't planned. I I have a little brother at the time, I think he was like 16 and he was doing his GCSEs. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna fly home and just help him study and stuff because our other sibling like lived in America, so it was just the three of us. So I had a six-week trip planned, and I had been in Nigeria at that time, maybe like a year and a half, without coming back to the UK as well. So I was back home, his GCSEs were done, and I think like a month into the trip, I was like, it's actually peaceful. I'm not fighting at anyone in traffic, no one's banging my car trying to help me park. Like, it's just electricity is flowing, the water may be hard, but it's clear. Like, this actually the serenity is it's underrated, and I'm not willing to just let it go straight away. So I think when did I leave? I left, I think I arrived in April, so my six-week trip would have taken me to the end of May, but instead I extended my ticket to I think the end of September, right? So I was like, let me just do summer, catch up with my friends as well, properly, and stay around. Now, during that time, I actually met someone and I met my husband, my now husband, and I think once I met him, I just kind of knew that it wasn't gonna work. So I literally met him shortly before my trip, and then I went back home and my house in Lagos, I just kind of put all the stuff in storage and just spent a month chilling with my friends there, and then I came back, and that's been it. We just started got married, started a family, and yeah, I'm back in the UK, and so yeah, we did try to film um podcast episodes remotely, but people were so used to the studio, it's just you know, it wasn't the same, so that's why I said we kind of put the podcast and pause in that in that way, but it's it's been nice. I mean, being back in London has always reminded me why I left in the first place. I also don't think this is the best environment for a young black person to be in. So we'll see where life takes us over the next few years.

Speaker 39:41

Wow, such a lovely story. You owe your little brother everything for helping you meet your wonderful husband and start your new chapter. So, yes, he you owe him. Okay, so finally, Salewa, your story is one of profound resilience. For the woman listening who feels like she's in her own dark night of the soul, whether it's professional, personal, or both, what is the one piece of wisdom that you can offer about the art of rebuilding a life?

Speaker 1 40:17

Oh, yes. Uh the oh, you said one piece of advice. So if it's one piece of advice, I'll go spiritual. I think your power as a millinated individual, especially, is is in the spiritual realm. And you know what they say, what is banded on earth is banded in heaven. So you have to get your spiritual game on. And especially if you're living in Nigeria, especially Lagos, because that's a very spiritually charged environment. People dabble in spirituality through many different doors, and if you are not aligned in one aspect and fortifying yourself in one aspect, you leave yourself open not just to things of the physical but things of the spiritual, and that's a very dangerous place to be unarmed. So I would definitely say I try to live my life biblically. So I would say that I've fluttered in between being a messianic Jew, being Christian, etc. So I've been on my own journey, but the Bible is what I try to live my life by. So I'm biased to that perspective, and I do believe God listens, I do believe in the power of prayer. I always tell people, like, remember, sometimes you just have to pay attention to words, they say spelling, it's a spell. When my business blew, I had used um this book. I I love this book, I recommend it to people. It's called Prayer Reign, and I literally said, Okay, 30 days, 30 prayers. And I did that, and I literally had raised in the time that I'd done that, I literally raised money for this one million dollar billboard deal in Ikoy, right? And it's like at that time, also the clients were just coming consultancy-wise, so it worked, and I wasn't even using the book to pray for well, I was just using the book to get my life in order because so many things were just happening to me. Like, I'd moved to a new home and it just wasn't working out, you know. Safety-wise, things were happening, you know. Sometimes in Lagos, you meet people, one or two things can happen, they're a person of light, or they're a person of just not who you're meant to be around. So something was just happening. So the book was just more to like align myself with God, and it made a very big difference. So, yeah, if you're feeling down, definitely, definitely like tap into, and if you can't even pray, sometimes, yeah, your spirit is so weak, you don't even have the strength to pray. It happens to people, and I don't think you need to be ashamed about it. There's a guy on YouTube that I use, it's called Daily Effective Prayer. Just leave it on in the background. Like when I was at my low, low lowest, they would just have these Bible verses playing with like piano music, and that was what gave me strength because I would read it, I'd read God's promises to me, and it literally gave me power. Like, it literally wrote something in me like, no, this is my right, this is going to happen, and it did happen, you know. Obviously, new age would be like manifesting and all this kind of stuff. Like, for me, it's like actually reading the words of the Bible, there's a magic in that, and repeating them to yourself over and over again, and knowing that you have the power, you have dominion over whatever's trying to oppress you. So, yeah, spiritually, I would say that. And if I could give one non-spiritual answer, if I'm allowed, I would say social capital. Social capital, especially if you're living in Lagos, is very important. So, what that means is the saying that your network is your net worth, okay? Because a lot of deals are just done by picking up the phone, linking people together, and off you go. In fact, most things are even done that way. It's not your website that's gonna bring you random clients, you know, it's not even your LinkedIn, like it's not, it's people, it's reflecting. That really elevate you in whatever you're doing. So, social capital, having the right friends, having people that what they say is actually how they live their lives, you know. A lot of times people are like they live double lives, just try and vet, you know, try and use discernment as well, so that you don't end up going down another cycle. But social capital is the best, and I always say Lagos has serendipity. You could just be chilling by your pool and you meet someone new, and that person is a founder here, or that person is connected here. Like every day you meet someone new. You can go to a restaurant by yourself, you meet someone new. So be open-minded, be presentable, carry yourself well, have an aura of light. You know, you may be going through something dark, but don't wear it on you. It's hard, it's really hard, but uh, those things definitely work during dark times.

Speaker 44:53

I love everything you said, Salewa. Um, and I totally agree and align with everything, especially in terms of when you are in your season, when you are fully aligned and you obey, you start to see great things happen. And the other thing you mentioned is you could be sitting by the pool, or even just walking down the street, or just attending an event and you meet somebody who gives you the answers you're looking for or provides you with a way forward and a solution that you've been searching for. And it just happens. And I really uh hope that a lot of women who are feeling lost do take that advice. I especially love the advice of if you can't pray, just listen to Bible verses to help you along the way. So that's great. Thank you so much for that. Salewa, I just want to say I've really enjoyed our conversation. It's been so enlightening, even to the business-minded person, to somebody who is in diaspora now thinking of how to come back. And you've given so many insights into the challenges as well as the successes of what it takes to navigate uh moving back to Nigeria. So, thank you so much. Thank you.

Speaker 1 46:10

Thank you for having me.

Speaker 46:17

So, guys, I don't know about you, but I took a lot from what Salewa had to say, and I hope you did too. There's so much that it takes for people who have been brought up in a completely different culture to move back to where they call home, but it's completely different. It's a culture shock. And then we realize that they have to navigate so many different challenges and successes along the way. And I think Salewa has alluded to the fact that it's not easy, but she's also someone who is spiritual, who feels guided, especially when she realigned herself to God. And something she said stuck with me, and that's the scripture, Proverbs 16, verse 3. Commit to the Lord, whatever you do, and he will establish your plans. And we can see that Salewa's plans are being established even with inadvertently. So, for ladies out there and men who are a bit afraid or concerned about taking that next step, be mindful, be spiritual, commit to the Lord whatever you do, and He will establish your plans and believe it, He will. I want to thank you all again for listening in. I really appreciate you all. Until the next episode, thank you and goodbye.