EP.39 The Queen of Talk: Joyce Daniels on Fighting Invisibility and Finding Ikigai

At the age of 10, Joyce Daniels held a microphone at the First Lady's Children's Concert in Abuja, sparking a lifelong trajectory. Fast forward to 2007, she walked away from an anatomy degree and a conventional career path to embrace event hosting entirely. In this episode, the "Queen of Talk" breaks down the philosophy of Ikigai and the sacrifices required to pursue true alignment when society praises safety. She also unpacks why brilliant individuals fade into the background and how she actively fights to ensure great work no longer goes unnoticed.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Hello and welcome to the WeWin Podcast, powered by Accelerate Her Africa in partnership with the Human Pattern Institute. I am your host, Lalita Edgefor, and it's such a pleasure to have you here with us today. Okay, today's guest picked up a microphone at 10 years old at the First Lady's Children's Concert in Abuja, and she has never really put it down since. Meet Joyce Daniels, a master of ceremonies, executive coach, conference convener, community builder, and the woman they call the Queen of Talk. Joyce walked away from an anatomy degree in 2007 to follow what she now understands as her Ikigai, her reason for being. And for over 18 years, she has sat across from executives, founders, and professionals, closing the gaps between who they truly are and who they become the moment they step in front of an audience. She fights invisibility, the reason great work goes unnoticed. Through her Money Making Mouth conference, she has created a dedicated platform for African women to monetize their voice and turn expertise into influence and income. And beyond the stage, she is installing solar streetlights in communities and awarding grants to young entrepreneurs because for Joyce, Voice Without Impact is incomplete. Every woman listening who has something powerful to say but keeps finding reasons not to say it, this conversation is for you. So let's go get it. So am I, you can't believe it. Okay, Joyce, your website tells a very specific story. The first time you held a microphone, you were 10 years old at the First Lady's Children's Concert in Abuja in 1992. Most people cannot trace their life's work to a single moment that precisely. What do you remember about that day? And when did you realize it had never really let you go?

SPEAKER_02 2:33

I remember being asked to be the master of ceremonies. So we went as a group of kids from Lagos to dance. It was 21 states at the time, and so children from all the states of Nigeria will come in to Abuja for the First Ladies Children's Concert, and there'll be music and dancing. So I went with the dance troupe from Lagos. And Zenkemorakwe, the lady who used to anchor Tales by Moonlight, she took us in the entourage. So it was a lovely trip, lovely experience. We flew Nigeria Airways, got there, rehearsed our dances, we were prepared. And the next thing she comes into the room, she said, Joyce, please come. And I'm wondering, oh, what have I done again? Who have I who have I misspoken to? Because I was that talkative child. And she says, the first lady says she's not pleased to have adults as MCs as a children's event. She believes there are children in here that could do it. And I said, I have the two. And I go, You mean I get to do this? Let's go. So I was so excited. I remember coming out on stage and seeing the sea of heads. And I was like, this is amazing.

SPEAKER_03 3:51

Like, no fear.

SPEAKER_02 3:53

No fear whatsoever. I was filled with joy. Like, how do I get the opportunity to be asked to do this? Can I still get to dance? It was, I just never forgot how I felt. It was like I couldn't have asked for this. So I was so glad to be given because I would not have thought to ask. I wouldn't, it would never have crossed my mind. And somehow it just never left me. I always just go back to that day how I felt. I always feel like it was a gift. So we don't really forget the best gifts, right? So I've not been able to forget that.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

Like your divine moment, even as young as 10 years old. And to see a sea of heads and not feel any nerves whatsoever, but to feel even exhilarated and excited sounds really extraordinary. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

And I was grateful to her. I know I remember I kept looking to her, the first lady, every now and again, and I felt like saying thank you. The next day we're invited to Asarok to have lunch with the president. And those of us, myself and Olu, who were MCs, had the first seats. So he was here and she was on the other side. So I think we got to say thank you, but it was the feeling of the day on stage that was more important than I can totally see why you wouldn't forget.

SPEAKER_03 5:17

Yeah. Okay. So you had an anatomy degree and what the world would consider a conventional career ahead of you. In 2007, you walked away from the path to become a full-time master of ceremonies. And most people around you thought it was reckless. What did you know about yourself in that moment that the people around you simply could not see yet?

SPEAKER_02 5:46

I knew me. Yes. If that makes sense. Even as a child, I wanted to do me. I wanted to do what I wanted to do. My mother will call it being stubborn or being strong-headed. And after a while, it was turned to being strong-wheeled. I didn't have a definition for it at the time. I just knew I wanted to do what I wanted to do. I didn't like to be moved around doing what I didn't want to do. I had to be involved. So, first of all, with anatomy, I had no clear path as to what I was going to do with anatomy. I did think about setting up a funeral home and it still lingers somewhere there because I'm quite morbid and I don't mind, you know, it's it's it's an interest that has never left.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

So I thought about that, but it didn't spark that joy and happiness that I live for. My name is Joyce. I mean, so it's I'm stuck with it. I have to feel the joy. So I got a job selling fire safety equipment. And I was doing really well. I had an official car in five months. It was a brand new Picanto I went to pick up from the shop because my boss said you've done so well, pick up the car. It will help your business development, marketing, sales. But it didn't excite me, it didn't wake me up. No, z.

SPEAKER_03 7:16

Nothing.

SPEAKER_02 7:16

I was happy to get my commissions. I'm I'm driven. I'm I'm given, I'm a responsible person. If I have a responsibility, I show up. If I have a duty, I show up. So because I had that job, I showed up with my entire life, but I always knew something was missing. So what people didn't see was how I felt every day. And I I've never wanted to leave fulfillment to the future. I believe in being fulfilled every day.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

And that job didn't make me fulfill every day. And that's why I left it. And I had no qualms whatsoever leaving it without finding the next job because I couldn't take the risk of not finding that thing. So when they saw recklessness, I saw, how else am I gonna find it? That's opportunity. So I was excited about it. I will add that I did a lot of reading. Not because I was in search of purpose per se, but because I'm curious. I like to read biographies, I like to read other people's stories, and I found that some of the happiest people did what they really wanted to do. And for some of them, it took them time to find it. So I had one philosophy, and that was hunger doesn't kill. So I was willing to be hungry.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

I mean, physically hungry. If I had no money to eat, I was ready to be hungry. It meant nothing to me.

SPEAKER_03 8:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

I did have a child who was turning five years old. So I was aware that I had a responsibility to provide for him. And so I was scaffolding. I knew how to do makeup. So I still had people ask me to do makeup here and there. Monies would come in to fund my son. So he never missed his school fees being paid, any of that. But I always say life is more than bills. Yeah, life is much more than bills. I don't wake up to pay bills. I wake up to fulfill my life. And if I can pay bills whilst doing that, then good. But I'm not ever waking up just to pay bills.

SPEAKER_03 9:28

Yeah. That is such a strong, there's such a strong sense of your self-awareness. For you to say, I'm gonna go hungry to do this. A lot of people don't understand self-deprivation or you know, lack. They just want what they want. And if it's not so fulfilling, I'm getting something out of it. I'm getting to pay the bills. So not me. Can see that. All right, so after 18 years of sitting across from executives, founders, and professionals in coaching sessions, what is the most consistent gap you see between who someone actually is and who they become the moment they step in front of an audience? The gap.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

Maybe the greatest gap would be thinking they need to put on a performance for the audience rather than just being. I think it's one of the greatest problems I've seen.

SPEAKER_03 10:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

So I see two sides. Okay. One, I'm a master of ceremonies. So I'm always at an event where I'm watching people speak so I can observe. And then I'm a coach, on the other hand, when I'm teaching people what to do. So I have the opportunity to see in real time people live out what I know should be the right thing and what I believe they're missing. So I get to enjoy myself all the time. Like, oh my gosh, I'm watching this in real time. So many people put on a conference speak, an event speak. Their voices change. Some of their words change, and I go, uh-oh, this was not you yesterday. Who is this? What's happening to this higher pitch? So they put on an impression voice, or they put on a yes, an impression voice, a voice they think. Do you think that's nerves, or what do you think? Primarily, it is a lack of self-awareness. So they haven't owned themselves first. For many people at a high level, they've owned the title, not self. So without the title, many are empty. But they they shouldn't be because they have so much, but they've discarded it as nothing and held on to the title more. I give you an example. You say to someone, oh, you're such a good organizer, and she says, organizer, I beg, I beg, what's that? Who organized it? Meanwhile, if she owned the truth that she's such a great organizer, she would be an organizer regardless of title. But now she's an executive director in a finance house or in whatever. And so she puts on the voice of an executive director, not the voice of the organizer that she is. And there is a gap, there is a difference. So, what tends to happen is that after her conversation, her presentation, her speech, she feels there was something I should have said I didn't say. So that gap, I see it all the time. And it's the gap that I believe is part of my life's mission to help people close. Yes, yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_03 12:50

I can probably even speaking about myself, you tend to feel there's an expectation of you, a way to sound, a way to be, a way to perform. Yeah. And you bow to that instead of your true self. And then after you've done that, you think, did I do well? Exactly. But when you come out silly question, yeah, when you show up as yourself, you don't need to ask any question anymore. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 13:13

Because you were, I mean, how else was I supposed to sound?

SPEAKER_03 13:16

I was I wasn't me. And the funny thing is, they don't know how you think you're supposed to sound, right? They just whatever you put in front of them is what they see. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

Audiences just receive. So they receive the real you or the fake you, and then you are the one left with doubts.

SPEAKER_03 13:33

Exactly, unfortunately. Exactly. That's very interesting. Okay, so you say you fight invisibility. The reason great work goes unnoticed. After all this time, what is the most honest thing you have learned about what actually creates it?

SPEAKER_02 13:56

A lack of understanding of self.

SPEAKER_03 13:58

We go back there.

SPEAKER_02 13:59

We go back there. Self is the foundation. The person who wants to be invisible has the right to, until it begins to be a disservice. So the awareness of self to know when to pivot. That's what I mean by the awareness of self. Because there's a book by Marshall Goldsmith, who's the title of the book is What Got You Here won't get you there. So it's okay to be invisible if that's what you want until it's not okay anymore. So, entry level, you're part of a team, you bring the great ideas, you walk behind the scene, you help put the ideas together, you help project manage from behind, and then you are promoted, you become assistant supervisor, you become supervisor, and you keep going. And one day you're made a deputy general manager, and you were told, Oh, you now need to speak on behalf of the entire team at so-and-so, and you go, no, no, no, I'm a behind-the-scenes person. Hello. Situational awareness, something has changed. You are no longer allowed to be in the shadows. So, understanding that you've changed, you can no longer be in the cocoon, you've now become the full-blown butterfly that needs to come out of the cocoon to fly. So there is a time to be in there, and if the butterfly stays in the cocoon longer than she should, she may die, she may destroy herself. So if you stay in the womb longer than nine months, we begin to get concerned. And then you say, but I'm comfortable in here, and you stay 10 months and 11 months. You and the mother may die. Yeah. It's now time to come out. But if you also were going to bring the baby out of the womb, of the uterus before nine months, there was still a risk. So there is a time for development, there's a time to be in the shadows. Know when that time expires. Look at yourself in the mirror, know who you are. You know, when I hear people say things like, Joyce, I was so shocked I got there and they asked me to give a speech, they were like, Oh, you're here. Please give us a goodwill message. And I go, Me? I said, exactly. You didn't look at yourself in the mirror. You are now this.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

You cannot be behind anymore. And when you begin to argue with yourself, like I say, you're arguing with your destiny, and say, No, I should still be behind, there is a problem.

SPEAKER_03 16:46

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

And that's when you stand the chance of being left behind. Unfortunately, that's just how the world works.

SPEAKER_03 16:54

Yeah. It's interesting how, because I was gonna ask you, do people who come out come for that help at that point in time who say, Listen, I've I've been in the shadows for too long. I feel I want to face my destiny. How am I gonna do this? Thankfully, many do. Good.

SPEAKER_02 17:13

I'm grateful for that. That's why I'm in business. So I'm grateful for the awareness that some develop and some is thrust on them. Yeah. And then they begin to understand why. So there is that. And some just know that there will come a time so they start preparing ahead. Yeah. And of course, personality types matter. So there's some people who were never behind the shadows because that's how they came. Nigerians will say, Fulukum. Yeah. Like me. I've always been very front-facing. Yes. If anything, I think now I'm beginning to not mind being behind the scenes on some level. Yeah. It's still situational awareness.

SPEAKER_03 17:55

You know yourself, right? So myself.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

It's intentional. It's for a reason. Exactly. I'm now comfortable if I have to be behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_03 18:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Before I will fight it. I would not want to be behind. Don't put me behind nothing. I sit in front. But now if I get a back seat, I go, okay. I can observe. I can I could see from here. I could listen more. I don't always have to speak. So everyone, you know, know where you are and know what invisibility is not a bad thing until it is. So I'm more about self-awareness, doing what serves you. And if being visible is what serves you now, then be that is really sound advice.

SPEAKER_03 18:45

Totally. There is a Japanese concept you return to often called ikigai. Tell our listeners what it means, and then tell us what it actually costs you to follow it when the world has already validated a very different path. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

What you love first, doing what you love, right? Finding it. Then what the world wants, or what the world is looking for, what you are good at, and what the world is willing to pay for. So I love to speak, and I am good at it. So two parts since the world is looking for speakers, either as a master of ceremonies, which I do, or as a trainer coach, which I also am. And is the world willing to pay for it? Yes. So I found my key guy. It starts with self. You have to love it. Then it starts with awareness of skill. You have to be good at it. So you might love it, but you're not good at it. That's not yet a key guy. You might love it and are good at it, but nobody's willing to pay for it. That's not a key guy. Nobody's looking for it. So that's what makes it a complete circle and maybe cycle. Yeah. Yeah. What price do you need to pay? Self-discovery. Pay the price to ask and find the thing you really love and are good at. And you may not be sure if the world is willing to pay for it until you test.

SPEAKER_03 20:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:54

And then you might need to understand the business side of it, how to get the world to pay for it. So the price to pay is in the searching. I give an example with my son David. David is 23. He'll be 24 in November. He was really good at technology in high school, in secondary school. And I said to him, You will not go to university until you have a sense of what excites you. University is not a box to be ticked. I did that. I'm not going to let my child do that. You're free to make your own mistakes, just don't make mine. So after secondary school, you're going to have a gap year. And if you still don't have a sense of what you want to do in university, you have another gap year. And you keep having gap years until you get there. And if you go to university at age 30, knowing what you want, then that's the better way to go. That's what I believe. And so when he graduated, valedictorian, best graduating student, very High jam score, excellent grades. I said, now well done. Do you love it? And he goes, I'm not sure. I said, fantastic. So let's go on his self-discovery. So I put him on one of these coaching programs whilst he was also in culinary school because I knew he likes to cook and this and that. Just try your hands at different things. And it was toward the end of the gap year, he goes, I would don't want to study anything technology because I don't like it. I'm just really good at it. And I go, now we're on our way. So what do you like? Financials, commercials, I'm not sure yet. So now let's go into A levels. And in A levels, he began to try out a few things, and they called me to say, maybe business admin or business management. So he needs to take some O-level courses. And I go, that's the price to pay. So pay it and better pay it now when you are still young. Yeah. So he picked up and he was excited. He was very excited because it was leading to something. It was leading to what could be Ikigai.

unknown 23:13

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

And then after a month, they called me again and said, We found it. It's economics. And he goes, Yes! And so he did the O-levels exams and the A levels. He's graduating from economics this year. He's 23. He has classmates that are 18 and 19. But you know what? I started telling him from age two that it's very likely you'll be one of the oldest people in class all your life because you will take time to find fulfillment and enjoyment in what you're doing, not just in finishing quickly. Because I've seen the value to it. That's that's the benefit of having a mother or a parent who is aware. So I want to help you be aware and not make the mistake that I do did of just going to school to study something to wonder why I did. Thankfully, I have no regrets whatsoever. I don't know how to regret by nature. It's my nature. I didn't learn it, it's how I came. But I know how to learn from what has happened. And now he's not under a lot of pressure because he's doing what makes him happy. He's graduating with a four-point plus average with joy. And he says to me over and again, thank you, because nobody has ever had to ask me to get up to go to school because I enjoy going for my lectures. I enjoy the conversations we have. He's had internships with the Nigeria Economic Summit Group, and throughout he was fascinated. Like we get to talk about the things that I love to talk about, and I get to meet people who are also doing same. And guess what? The world is looking for economists, right? Yes. Look, if you have to cut nails, it makes you happy. You're really good at cutting nails, fingernails, toenails, and the world will pay for it.

SPEAKER_03 25:09

Go cut those nails.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

Go cut those nails and be happy. You may never become a billionaire, yeah, but guess what? You have what the end of being a billionaire should give. What's the end of being a billionaire? You want to be able to afford the things you want, you want to at the end of the day, the idea is you want to be happy.

SPEAKER_03 25:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

At the end of the day, all this money is supposed to help you travel and this so that you can be happy. Who says you need to travel to be happy?

SPEAKER_03 25:39

Good question.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

When you can be happy drinking your coffee or your tea, cutting nails, and meeting wonderful people every day.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

Love it.

SPEAKER_02 25:48

That's the price to pay to find it and be okay with it. I met a woman who runs a daycare. I met her last week. She runs a daycare, she's running for 30 years, and it's excellent. In fact, I got to find out that that's the same daycare my nephews and niece attended. And she said so many people came to her who, ma'am, you should set up a primary school. It's a daycare nursery. Oh, set up a primary school. Oh, now then by now you should have had a secondary school. You maybe even a university. She said, Who told you I was looking for that?

SPEAKER_03 26:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

My fulfillment is this early childcare. It's over 30 years now. She has a wait list till 2029.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

That's how good they are. But her success is this is what makes me happy. This is what the world is looking for. The world is really willing to pay for it, and we are so good at it. So why should she do more than that? That's a key guy. And that's the price to pay for it.

SPEAKER_03 26:50

I guess it's the definition of success. What is success to you? I know a lot of parents listening to you thinking, what'd she let him think about what he wants to do? But what they don't realize, because even overseas in UK, that's the whole point of the gap, yeah. It's for you to figure out, go out on the self-discovery, think about what you want to do. Well, yeah, that's the plan anyway. But it's even like there is a perception that we need to rush the child through university, rush them through this, rush, rush, rush. They come out at 14, they don't even know what they're doing, they've been put under pressure consistently. So it pays to have a mom like you. Yes, it does. And David says that all the time. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

Last year, he said, Mom, please start talking about parenting soon.

unknown 27:38

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 27:38

Because I feel sorry for many of my classmates who are under a lot of pressure. They're 19, they're 20, and then they are the ones who are now using because the pressure is so real. And then they're comparing themselves, and their parents are comparing them with the kids of other. And I'm like, what, what, what, what, what is too much? So I do agree with you.

SPEAKER_03 28:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:04

I'm proud of myself right now.

SPEAKER_03 28:08

Please be proud. Yeah. Um, because from one parent to another, um, I feel like I didn't put too much pressure, but there was a pressure on me to put pressure. Yes. You know, so some of our mums are intergenerational. We're sort of doing what our parents did to us, to our children. And it's different now. You put the us under pressure, my generation, we just got on with it. But in their generation, there's just so many ways it can get lost. Yes, so many. Thanks for that.

unknown 28:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:40

Okay, so your money making mouth conference is built specifically for African businesses and career women who want to monetize their voices and turn their expertise into influence and income? Yeah. Why African, why women? I give it the African. You know me, I'm about African. Let me just ask, why African women specifically? And what is it about the relationship between African women and their own voice, their own expertise, that made you decide this needed its own dedicated platform?

SPEAKER_01 29:21

Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 29:24

I'm trying to calm myself down because I get very passionate when I speak about it. Yeah. Sometimes I tear up as well. One, I am an African woman. Charity begins at home. I can't imagine why else I was born African if not to give savor to the African continent. If the grand overall designer needed me to solve Asian problems, he might as well have made me Asian or European. So I am extremely committed to the ground that I was burst. I am Joyce, calm down.

SPEAKER_03 30:13

Take your time.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

I am extremely committed to this ground.

SPEAKER_03 30:18

I feel you.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

It's Nigerian first, but because over the last what five, six, seven years, people have said to me from across Africa, like, you Nigerians don't know you are the Americans of Africa. You don't know you are the ones who set the pace. Yes, oh, I've heard the same phrase.

unknown 30:36

What?

SPEAKER_02 30:36

And I go, huh? What does that mean? They go, you know, we love Americans. Americans are the they are the power, they are the global power. So people don't know that you Nigerians are the African power. So if you're not telling us what to do, some of us are just here. You know, I'm hearing East Africans say that, I'm hearing my Ghanaian say that, my Ghanaian friends say that. That's instructive. So I am aware that there are many African women who will take dressing from the Nigerian women. And I am Nigerian. So why not?

unknown 31:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

If I'm a born leader, then I should take my office as same. One of the meanings of the name Joyce is leader.

SPEAKER_03 31:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

Yes. Lord, king, leader. So I am born to lead something. I am aware of that. And why not lead a whole bloody batch? Yes. Why? Why not? Why not? So African women, because generally, as a continent, there is the narrative that we are the dark continent, we are the ones who need to learn from others before we know what to do. We are the I and I don't agree somewhere. And I go, it's a story that was told us, and we bought into it. Because once again, someone will say, But you know, we are learning technology from the rest of the world. And I go, there is also the part where we are seeing that some of the technology is trying to go back to what we originally had.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

Very true.

SPEAKER_02 32:21

The homes that are being built that say are coal are those that are made with some sort of mud that Africans have been living in. And now we need to buy ACs because we are living in the cement buildings that we learned from the Europeans. Meanwhile, if you live in a mud hut, you don't need air conditioning because it's a natural coolant. And now the technology people are proud about across the world is oh, you know, we have this new technology where we use uh this material that makes the whole place cool without air conditioning. And I go, we have it in Africa. It's called mud huts. But you see, we're going around this circle and cycle, trying to come back to who we already are. And the older I've gotten, the more I've realized we have to define success for ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 33:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

My mission is to help African women own that thing that is already seated in their guts, but they're still afraid to say because they're waiting for external validation. So women represent the microcosm of what the African continent is. We are not able to say certain things to certain people across the pond because we are afraid of how they will react when we say it as the continent. So we just go along with what they say and we go for all the conferences on that side of the pond to get instructions on what to do here, whether it serves us or not. So it since I cannot save the whole continent, can I just start with my catchment area? Let me start at home, let me start with women. And I've dabbled into some history here and there that shows that centuries ago, mostly before we were colonized by people from other climes, women led the packs. There is history to show across Africa that women were the leaders. And I'm not one to say, oh, women are better leaders than men or men. No, no. We are different leaders, and the difference makes us better. But someone came over and began to show us a way that they were used to and began to shut us down. I try to remember the name of the book now. It was a fine, a book on women's finances, and it shows back in Yoruba culture, Edo culture, Bini culture, and some other places around Africa how women were the ones with the money because the men had to go out to war. Yes, there were internal wars. So it was women who had to sit with what proceeds were coming from the farms and exchanging. It wasn't cash, it was the exchange. So they were the economic hubs. So the men came back and the women were able to take care of them for protecting, they were holding the fort. And so they had a voice, they were able to ask you know, direct things. And we have this thing by nature called intuition that kind of protects us. So, how about we are strengthened to lean into that regardless of what we've studied in school and what the titles say? So I'm passionate about that. And I found that some of the most influential people, the ones who are able to get people to do a thing in a certain way, are those who can articulate it. So let's articulate it so that it can lead to influence, that could lead to impact, and will ultimately lead to income. Because money goes where value flows.

SPEAKER_03 36:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

So that's that's the reason. I I've met so many people, too many women in their 50s and 60s. From when I was a child, and I used to observe, you know, listen to some aunties and some aunties' friends who were just not fulfilled, and they wished for something more. So some women have said to me that I'm a scam artist because I say I teach speaking, but then when they get into my programs, they realize it's not just speaking, it's self-discovery and other things. And I go, well, well, that's not scamm. That's not scamming. And I go, no, Joyce, you scammed me. You told me I was coming to learn how to speak. And I came in here, and it's, oh my god, my whole life has changed. It's a good scam.

SPEAKER_03 36:55

Huge transformation.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

Because speaking is what I do and what I know, I also see it's a window to more. Because out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. So it is what is in the heart. So I'm asking the question, what is really in the heart? Because I used to teach how to speak, how to put your head up, how to raise your voice. But then I realized that I was only enabling a bad habit. Yes. Putting up a front, yeah, putting up a performance, putting up a show. So I started asking deeper questions, like, what is really in this heart? And then when we really find what's in the heart, we may not need to tell you how to raise your voice. Because when you're passionate, your voice, you know, it modulates on its own. When you are not passionate, you will struggle. So, how about we find what's in there? I'm also very passionate because there's a lot of money on the table. I find so many women, including clients I've spoken with yesterday and this morning. Oh, Joyce, I'm invited to speak at this place, speak at that place. I shared this knowledge, and nobody's paying me for it. So I get weary. So some begin to get weary after a while. I bet nobody should call me again to speak, Joe. What didn't happen? Because and I go, why are you weary? Tell me, tell me what's and I go, I'm not sure. And I go, no, let's give it a name. Find it. Is it because you're tired of repeating yourself? And they say, not necessarily. I said, what if you were paid to speak? Would you still be weary? And then they go, maybe not. Maybe I'm weary because I spend my own resources to do my hair, get my makeup on, buy a new outfit, feel my car, travel there, and I feel unappreciated. And I go, There it is, there it is. So if we put a price to it and somebody pays the price, you'll be willing to go and they go, um yeah, but also don't want to feel guilty, like you know, it's it's the gift God gave me for free, and I say, Shh, shh, which one got no give? Oh, this one where we did talk, which one got no give? So you you go to work 30 days a month and you're giving all your time. Didn't God give you that time, but you're happy to collect the salary then. Then now you're sharing from your knowledge, your expertise, your research, your years of one program after the other, master's PhD, and you don't think there should be a price on it? Who told you that? It's a minute block. It's a middle block, and it happens more to church girls, you know, good girls. I don't want to share God's glory. I don't want God's after the freely I received, so the freely I give, come up for yourself. That office way they go, why did they collect money? Freely you got you're going there as you're a supervisor, a general manager. Why are you asking for salary? And then you realize that that freely you thought you got maybe was not so free after all. You have a master's degree, you have two master's degrees, you've had sweat, blood in your time, you've invested so much in yourself. No, it's okay to put a fee on it. If it's okay to put a ring on it, it's okay to put a fee on it. You get me? So yeah, that's it. And I'm I'm filled with joy when I see my clients begin to blossom and they go, Joyce. Guess what? I was paid for this, and I I couldn't believe how I felt. Somebody actually sent me the screenshot of a transfer, an alert. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:18

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_02 40:19

When she received some payment, and she was like, I felt appreciated, I felt seen. So you mean they could give me this amount? In her case, she speaks mostly in churches. And there was one, I saw her face on a billboard for a church, and uh the other, some of the other faces were coming from out of Nigeria, out of Africa. And so I asked her just one question. I said, Are they coming for free? Are they coming for free? And she said, Well, no. And I go, So is it because you're living down the road in Lecky? You think you should come for free? Okay, so even if you're not gonna give them a big bill, let them pay for your transportation from your house. Yeah, are you going to have a makeup artist walk on your face? She said yes. I said, Let them pay for that too. Are you going to get your hair done? I said, let them pay. And she was like, Well, makes sense. You know, so let's start there.

SPEAKER_03 41:17

I guess it's let's start there because that mindset is like really fixed in a lot of women. I'm not gonna exclude myself. Yeah, it's this whole thing about talking about the money, the M-word, you know.

SPEAKER_02 41:29

It's more women than men. Yes, yes, no, men are very like because they're socialized to be breadwinners, to bring up the bacon. So he's wondering constantly how am I going to bring the income back home for the family, for myself, and whether he's single or not, family is his parents, his siblings. I God help him if he's a fest son, he might feel more pressure. So he's told from young that everything you do should have some value attached to it so you can bring something home. Okay. And she's told from young that she takes care of the home. So she's not thinking so much about going to bring in value from outside. So there is that. And remember, it's okay until it's not.

SPEAKER_03 42:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:17

Yeah. So it's okay until it's not.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

I was a masterclass on how to accept money and put value on what you're serving, right? Because it is a service, it is a service. Okay. There is a dimension of your work that surprises people who only know you as the queen of talk.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 42:36

You have installed solar street lights in communities. Oh, you read that. Awarded business grants to young entrepreneurs. Yeah. Run political campaigns. You're full of so much, right? Um, what is the connection in your mind between voice and those very material, concrete things? And why is speaking and coaching not enough?

SPEAKER_02 43:04

We are in a climb where many of the people responsible for the decisions that affect the majority don't care. So, my interest in politics is to be in a position to make decisions for the majority because I do care.

SPEAKER_03 43:27

We need you.

SPEAKER_02 43:28

Yes. And I have the aptitude for it. I was made resilient by God. I didn't really learn it. And it was when we watched the movie uh X-Men that myself and some of my siblings understood it better. The guy called Wolverine, as he's shot, he heals. That's me.

SPEAKER_03 43:49

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 43:49

So I don't I don't stay hurt long. So to be in a leadership position through politics in Nigeria, you need that kind of thick skin, right? I came with it. So why not be in a position where I could take hits? So there is that scene in one of the X-Men movies where the lady who brings out fire was trying to destroy the whole city and she was pouring fire everywhere, and they needed someone to kill her, and nobody could get close enough. And they said, Wolverine, you have to go because you're the one who can heal as you're getting to her. The fire is burning you, but you're healing. And I go, Ah, that's so me. This is you. So I should I should go into some fires because I can heal. My heart won't stay broken too long. That's why speaking is not enough for me. Because speaking can influence only so much, but there's certain rooms and there's certain policies and documents that need to be signed. There's certain things that cannot be done from the sidelines. People like me, who have the attitude and the aptitude, need to be in roles where they can do more for the majority. And one of the ways to be accepted in the political space is through philanthropy, giving back. The community, politics is local. So if the community doesn't know you to be a giver and a doer, it's difficult for them to trust you enough to give you their votes, their consent, their support. So philanthropy had to be the route for me. I didn't grow up in Edo State. I don't speak the language. My father wasn't a politician. So I had no other leverage besides what I'd done so far and giving back. And this was the first time I could actually go home and see what I could do. So there were some guidelines, North Star. Whatever monies you're giving or spending on this road to political success has to solve a real problem. So I don't have records of just dashing money as we do. It was, is this money solving something? So it had to be grants for those who were already in business because I've observed that many times when politicians give starter packs to people who have never run the business, or they buy bikes, they give keke, they get grinding machines to people who you're not even sure they're going to run this business. By the end of that event, at the gate of that event, they are selling off all those items because it's not sustainable. It's not, there's nothing, there's no acumen. There was no business running. So for me, it was they had to be people who were already in business. And whatever grants we were giving, we were not giving you cash. So you we went through some training, and then it was. So now you've done this training, there were pitches, they had to learn how to pitch for stuff, and then it was now what do you need in your business? So we had people like a lady who was running a nursery school in the village say, I need new tables and chairs for more children. Many of my children are sitting on the floor. And so what she needed was maybe 70 something thousand Nara worth. And so we bought the tables and chairs and set them up, and now she has children sitting there. This person says, I need a new iron. I'm a fashion designer, I'm a dressmaker, I need extra irons, the ones that work with charcoal, so that whilst I am ironing something, my apprentice can work as well because I need her to for speed. I need her to be ironing that. So now we bought the iron. Oh, I need a stoning machine because now people want to be bedazzled. They have one bedazzling on their dresses. So we get that stoning machine. So you see, it was feeding the existing ecosystem. So her business could actually see some level of scale beyond just giving somebody a sewing machine where she had no business sewing at all. Street lights, of course, the streets were dark. And the first instruction given to the earth was let there be light. So can we just make sure there is some light? And I know the significance of it. I know how much people were so grateful. Like, you know, yes, and some didn't even realize how bad it was. Like, wow, so we go work out for this road now, see light day. So it means that we just sofa like this since we don't know. So it's it's fulfillment at the end of the day, is bringing fulfillment to myself, yes, and then bringing fulfillment to the community, and then wanting to be in rooms. Am I running for any office now? No, I ran for office, I didn't get it, but I was very fulfilled. Even the day I didn't get it. All I could think of was, I'm so glad I got to try. I'm so grateful that I got to try. Would I run again? I'm not sure yet. Somebody asked me that on my way here. Because we were waiting for you to. Yes, so a number of people have reached out to say, Joyce. You know, a few political parties have come around again. Oh, wow. But headspace and a few things here and there, my time will come. And the right way. So speaking is not enough for almost anybody. Speaking is a means to an end.

SPEAKER_03 49:14

But also speaking has to be backed by doing, there has to be some form of action. And just the fact that you are speaking and also giving. And then the reward you're getting for giving is far much, must outweigh the speaking. Yeah. Because I just sometimes I feel like if we could package that feeling of, you know, like that lady you helped with the iron, you know, and just seeing the smile on their faces and the lights in a in a place that was always dark, that must give you a real sense of joy, you know, and and that translates into more joy. And I love that. You're such an extraordinary woman. Honestly, you have my heart and my votes at that time. Thank you. Every vote counts. Exactly. Okay. For a woman who knows she has something valuable to say, but keeps finding reasons not to say it. I see your face there. What is the real conversation you would have with her? Not the workshop version, but the honest private one.

SPEAKER_02 50:19

The honest private conversation I always have with women who know they have something valuable to say, but are not saying it is I ask the questions about their potential audience.

SPEAKER_03 50:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 50:30

Tell me who is missing out in this world because they haven't heard from you. That's where I always start. Tell me whose life is supposed to transform because of what she would hear from you. That is deep. And I talk to her about, you know, we're we're really religious typically in Nigeria and across Africa. So I also, as a Christian girl myself, will root out a few topics or a few pointers from the Bible where it says, let the older women instruct the younger ones. And I go, if there were potholes on the way up here, should other women go through the same potholes when you are here?

SPEAKER_03 51:11

Good question.

SPEAKER_02 51:12

So would your speaking help close those potholes or make them aware of those potholes? So I go, when the instruction given to man is be fruitful and multiply, many times we think about it as, oh, you get married, you have a child, you're now fruitful. Wow. Limited. So you mean the woman who doesn't marry shouldn't be fruitful? So what how does your speaking translate to being fruitful? How does it translate to multiplying and replenishing the earth? So if you have achieved something, you're successful at something, the next question is there's someone who will benefit from my journey, from my wins, from my failures, from my fears, from my concerns. Talking about this, how would it help someone else so that you're actually fruitful? Because the moment you're able to talk about it and transform someone's way of thinking, that's fruitfulness right there. And then if you're able to do it for two, three, and then someone else pays it forward, that's multiplication, that's replenishing. So that's the conversation I always have in the back end in the quiet area. And then I ask questions about living full and dying empty and what it means. And I ask women about fear of dying. And I find that, you know, when you say what if you die next year, the first time, God forbid, and I go, okay, tell me, tell me. Tell me what hasn't happened between now and next year that is making you say, God forbid. And many times when she's able to confront the truths, she finds that she's not yet fulfilled about something. And many of my clients, not all, but many realize that there's something she hasn't said. And I go, that's why you're still afraid of dying. Why are you living in the fear of death when you can actually live full every day and embrace? So it's deep thinking, it's coming back to self, it's introspecting and seeing who you are and who is out there that could benefit from you. And the moment she's able to marry the two, she starts speaking on some level.

SPEAKER_03 53:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:27

It seems so simple, right? It is actually. No, I we should, that should be a natural thing to do. To speak, provide the blueprint for the next generation or the next person.

SPEAKER_02 53:40

I'll tell you one of the reasons or some of the reasons why it's not natural.

SPEAKER_03 53:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 53:46

We, first of all, in socializing, we are told, you know, women talk so much. You hear a guy, I scolded a nephew of mine when he was saying to his cousin, oh, why are you talking like a woman? And I go, Oh, boys, come over here. You know, I wasn't going to shout, no, this is no anti-joys like, yeah, no, no. Oh, honey, come on, sit down here. Tell me how does a girl talk? How does a woman talk? You see, socialization has started happening right there. At that age. And there is no science to show that we actually talk more. Do you know? It's just a narrative. So a guy is talking, talking, talking, talking, talking, and it's fine. The moment a girl talks, talks, talks, they're talking so much.

SPEAKER_03 54:30

So you see, it's a it's ingrained.

SPEAKER_02 54:32

Yes, it's a mindset, it's a narrative. So by the time I spoke about it, and I said, of all the girls you've been playing with, who has been talking so much? And they're like, not really, nobody. Isn't that both of you that have been talking all day? So why are you saying he's talking like a girl or like a woman? He's probably heard his dad say that. He heard somebody say it. And guess who it might have been? His mother. Because women are the custodians of culture. And it is more likely the woman who said, stop talking like a woman. In fact, the moment I understood this, that women are the custodians of culture, this is like 10 years ago, I started observing more and I realized, uh-oh, it's the women who are saying these things. Sometimes more than the men. I'm not absorbing the men of that, but we also We enable. We enable. So it's not natural, it's not easy because we're conditioned to not speak too much, to not talk too much. You speak with your friend for 30 minutes and say, Ah, you know, women, they're always talking. Meanwhile, the guys have been there for three hours going around in circles, right? The wars in the countries because some men couldn't stop talking. Stop talking. Right? So we've been conditioned. On the other hand, or in addition to it, is the fear of being too much.

SPEAKER_03 56:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:03

We don't want to be seen as doing too much. Ah, if I start talking now, won't I just mind my business? And then I always ask this question: mention some of the most successful people you know in the world that have done anything at anything in any sphere. Are they normal? Are they ordinary or are they extra? And the answer is always they're extra. So why are you running away from being extra? You know, who lied to us that extra is the bad thing? Meanwhile, we want extraordinary customer service. We want to hear that they've gone the extra mile. Who is fooling who? And I go, girl, you are supposed to be extra. Yeah. Stop running away from it. Someone has 20-something grand slams. That's extra. But we know her name because she's comfortable with being extra. Someone has X number of Grammys and Oscars because she's extra. Somebody has this dash number of ballon d'ors because he's extra. Who send them? So let's stop running away from being extra. Especially when we also are happy with being successful. Success in itself is extra. Why weren't you a D student? Why aren't you happy to be a C student? Why did you want to be A plus? Why did you want Sumakum Laude? Why did you want to graduate first class? That was extra. So balance it out. It's okay to be extra. In fact, wear it as a badge of honor. When somebody says to you you're doing too much, you have arrived. If nobody has said you are doing too much, you are not yet enough.

SPEAKER_03 57:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 57:46

Because you're not moving the needle, you're not changing much. Once again, I come back to defining success for yourself. If success to you is just being okay for yourself, then it's okay. But if you wake up in the middle of the night sometimes and you feel there's something else you're supposed to be doing, but then you're not arguing, that's where there's a problem.

SPEAKER_03 58:07

Or when you say, God forbid, I'm gonna die.

SPEAKER_02 58:10

Thank you. That's where there's a problem. If somebody says you will die next year and you're not okay with that, then girl, let's close that gap.

unknown 58:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:21

I say it all the time, I've said it for so many years. Every day is extra. Today, I'm living for being right here on this podcast that I can translate all that's in my mind out here and somebody gets to listen. I mean it. If I die this evening, I'm fulfilled. Don't be tempted to say, God forbid. No, I was gonna say, what a privilege. What oh my god, what a privilege. It's a privilege to be able to put it out here on the table. There's nothing left. I mean, I don't know that I have anything left that I haven't said in one way, shape, or form. And for me, that's living full. That's a privilege. Yeah. And I want other women to have the same.

SPEAKER_03 59:02

I think I'm gonna charge for this episode.

SPEAKER_02 59:05

You should, because it costs so much. You should put a price on it, girl. And if somebody offers to pay for something regarding this, you should collect it with your full chest, like we say. Yes, because you earned it. We've earned it.

SPEAKER_03 59:23

Oh, Joyce, you're so funny. Okay, Ikigai gave you a framework for your own life. If you had to describe the Ikigai of everything you are building together, the speaking, the coaching, the community work, the conferences, what would it be? Can you have an Ikigai of everything? I do have an Ikigai of everything. Okay, let's have it. Come on, because you have so many things you're doing. Let's let's have it.

SPEAKER_02 59:51

And that's the thing. I don't even think I'm doing so many things. They're all the same, just in different doses. But everything I'm doing is exactly the same. Right. I speak as an MC because I can, and I am phenomenal at it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:08

Cool, girl.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:09

It's helping my clients fulfill their events they've planned for weeks, months, and sometimes years. Fulfillment. I am helping those people who should be speaking at those conferences to become better speakers. Same space. And they need it because many of them are tired of being afraid to speak. Many of them are tired of wondering if they would mess up. And I show them how to not mess up. Same thing. I have the conference, I show how to hone the speaking to make more money. In my mind, it's the same thing. The community where we have webinars, the money-making mouth tribe, we have monthly webinars where I'm showing us more, I'm talking about more conversations. We're having more conversations about how to own your power, how to own this new you that is now speaking and maybe putting a fee to it. Same thing. For me, it's the same thing. Everything I do, I love.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:18

Everything I do, I'm good at. And everything I do, someone is willing to pay for.

unknown 1:01:24

Yes. Huh.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:28

I don't blow.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:29

Are you kidding?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:30

I always say it. I'm one of the most fulfilled people that I know.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:33

It leads back to self. It leads back to self-10-year-old who grabbed that mic and became the MC for the children.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:40

Yes. And is now the MC for everyone. I am mighty. Yes. Yes, I am more selective of who my clients are. Yes, because that's what life is. At 44, I cannot be behaving like a four-year-old anymore. Because I'm not a four-year-old. And so appetites will change, tastes will adjust. A four-year-old is happy to run downstairs only in her undergarments to greet our uncle and auntie who have come into the house. Well, when you see a 14-year-old do that, you go, hold on, what's going on? What's up? Then a 44-year-old. Hello. It's just, it's cool, it's growth. So if anything has adjusted, it's because that's nature. But it's the same me and it's the same fulfillment. It's the same peace of mind. Yes. Appetites can change and evolve. So what was success to me three years ago may not be what success is now. Usually it's the same thing, but on a different scale.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:50

Three years ago, maybe I was comfortable just training a hundred women. Now I want to train 300,000 women because why not? Right? And tomorrow it might be three million women that I want to train. And so I know I can't do it anymore by myself. I run an organization now that has nine full-time staff and nine ad hoc staff because we need more people in the vineyard doing the work. So it's skill, but at the center of it is the same. And if everything were to stop and I were to start all over again doing the same thing, I wouldn't mind. I'll still be fulfilled every day doing it.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:35

Let me take that in. Joyce. Um slowly lots of food for thoughts. I'm sure our listeners would take away baskets and baskets of wisdom that you've handed out to us today. And I would like to say from the bottom of my from the depth of my soul, thank you so much for being my guest on the We Win podcast. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to live.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:08

Really live. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:12

Thank you. Wow, that was another masterclass uh from Joyce talking about Ikigai. Uh, that really stuck with me. So having what you know, what you enjoy, and earning from it and being in a space where you're at your optimum. But what I love about what Joyce said in terms of her training, she is asking women to recognize that what they have is already within them and not to wait for validation to shine because this is how you become visible. So think about that. I would like to say a huge thank you to all of you for listening in today, and please do have a wonderful day.