The Unabomber Part One

This week, we’re heading into darker, and very strange territory with part one of the Unabomber.

It’s Christmas, we’ve had a few drinks, and instead of switching our brains off, we’ve decided to unpack the chilling beginnings of Ted Kaczynski, the reclusive, highly intelligent, and deeply disturbed man behind one of the longest and most complex manhunts in U.S. history.

From a gifted child pushed to extremes, to a shadowy figure mailing terror across the country, we explore how a mind so sharp turned so dangerous, and how investigators struggled for years to understand who they were really hunting.

So pour yourself something festive, settle in with two girls who definitely aren’t detectives, slightly tipsy but fully committed to trying to make sense of it all.

Because sometimes the most terrifying threats don’t come with a face, just a package. 

Transcript

0:14

Oh, welcome back. Sorry. Welcome back to Kill the Meed podcast. I didn't need to say welcome back'cause that assumes that you've already listened to an episode and this might be your first one if it is. Hello? Yeah, sure. Do what I mean, welcome back. Yeah, welcome back or welcome. Yeah. Here's to hoping that you are listening to another episode. You've listened to one, you're listening to. This might be your first one, but then at some point you're gonna listen to another one. So the welcome back's. Okay. Yeah. Unless this is literally the first I've ever heard our voice, I Then you'll ever gonna listen to us again and then Yeah. Which is rude. You are rude. Rude. Merry Christmas. You are rude. Welcome to Kill the Mood podcast. We are here to talk to you about everything spooky Doy. There will be lots of true crime, but also just general mysteries. Some will be solved and some will leave you hanging. We are just two girls putting the worlds to rights, but not really. We just like yapping. I'd also like to add that we are not professionals, just two ladies who apparently like the sound of their own voices, enough to record them and believe that you will too. We like a huge percentage of the world, find all of this unfathomable. And this is just us in our own little way trying to make sense of the senseless. So without further ado, this week's subject is the uni, the al, the Univar. I know. Why are we happy? Oh yeah. Not great. Basically our friend Georgia has been asking us for this for a while and we have not done it. Yeah, I, yeah, big naked. She messaged me saying it and then she messaged the podcast Instagram saying it. And then, yeah, she said it to me a few times. And who go? You ask. We deliver. Yeah. I say we, I deliver. You should delivers. She did all the legwork. Yeah, I know this, but I like the details. I started being like, maybe I should do it because George said, but we were like, it's gonna be a beefy one. Yeah. And we need a time. And Full disc came out. It is gonna be two parts. Two parts. It's gonna be my dulcet tone you hear mostly over the next two weeks. And also, so we're doing a little batch tonight, which is the two Barter and a Christmas Kroger. Yeah. At Kro. A Kro. It's Kroger time, but actually, there's part two of this will be out on Christmas Eve, so everything we're doing tonight is fest. Yeah. And it's all coming out in a short amount of time. So it's not it won't be up to date, so to speak. Yes. But we are drinking. That's the biggest. So if we start, and also we are only obviously just starting part one and we've already had two points. Yeah. And a baby Guinness. And a Baby Guinness. So it might be that part two already sounds fucking slipping, chaotic. Yeah. And then the is gonna be just, we were like, we're gonna do drunk mystery. So I assume as well I was thinking about it the other day'cause we went for a drink with our friend and he said he was working on Christmas Day and I thought, oh my gosh, if he was driving home, if he was driving into work for Christmas he can listen to it on the way into work like the Christmas episode. But for most people, I assume that. They won't be like, let me just stick on my crying podcast on Christmas day with my family. So you might be saving them and watching them, like listening to them in a Yeah. In a bulk, like a Christmas Eve and a Christmas Day one, like a part two and then a random one and so therefore it will feel like you're there with us. Yeah. Yeah. You'll hear our slow decline as the episode's gone yeah. I wonder how it's gonna go down there because Tanisha is more of a heavyweight than I. Yes. And I haven't drank very much lately because it makes me boringly, but only yeah, I just basically can't deal with hangovers because I'm a worse, but yeah, I've sort of anything for the pod, anything for the pod, anything for, it's worth it for pod, for the pod po and I've given my body a rest, so I feel like this is worth it. And it's Christmas, so nothing counts, but yeah. We'll see. I'll probably be I don't know. I don't know. We'll see what stage she's in tomorrow. Let's, yeah, let's see how. The festive vibes might make us both feel more drunk, but yeah, we'll see. We'll see. It might be that Tanisha's just completely fine and I'm on the floor. Yeah. But the is Amy's and that's gonna be where the drunk, I'm gonna be like it s But yeah, welcome back. We're doing the UNA Bomber. Yes, I'm very excited. Before we start the UNA Bomber, I have some wonderful Allison updates for anyone who doesn't know who Allison is. That is my mother. So she listened to the pod pretty quickly after I put out the Barry Williams episode, and she literally started it with. Tanisha Francis Fancy having me in your phone as Allison and not mom and doing the accent. It's gotta be done Allison. It's gotta be done. But then she goes I forgot to say he used to write me regularly before he was released. So while he was in Broadwell he was writing to her. And then I was like, babe, any letters? Yeah, gimme the letters. Give me. And she was like, oh, I don't think so.'cause basically she lived in a flat in Lin Herst with my older brother. So like that she didn't live basically where we live now, which we've lived for years and years. Yes. She think she's lost all lost. Yeah. And that was like time ago sorry, I didn't mean that last. Yeah, it was time ago. She's fucking old. I dunno. Yeah, once you've moved house and it was like over 35 whatever years ago, like that's a long time. Also sad because that would've been so good. It would sick some receipts. But she did say, he used to ask about Darryl a lot, which was my old brother. And he told me he had a job in the prison kitchens and had a video player and could watch movies. Oh my gosh And then she text me about my nan and she said, she spoke to my nan about Barry and she said that they used to go and see him in Broad Wall quite a lot. Wow. And that they'd taken a bag of goodies. Dunno what that means. Yeah. What the hell? Hopefully it was, I don't know, meds. A Glock. A Glock. No guns. No guns, sorry. Yeah. And then she said I used to have some photos of him. But I dunno what's happened to them then I was like, oh my God, photos. Yes, please. And then she was al, she also said he also lodged with Nan and my dad when Shane and Lorraine were little and they lived in Southport. Barry also has a brother named Anton, who was not part of the story. Did not know that. Oh my gosh said his parents are Hilda and Horace. Yes. Hilda is his mother, but Horace is actually not his biological father. Oh, scandal. Scandal. There's so many updates. Allison, she wrote just says, hi, this is my little brother also this. Would've made so much sense if we just called Allison. Yeah. I should've called my mom because I could have got so much information and I just didn't realize I text her and because that's what she said to me. She gave the Yeah, she gave you the, I thought that was the end of it, the main info, but it, yeah. I feel like note to us, yeah. Made a mistake there. Yeah. Like she's got the tea and then she spoke my, spoke to my nan, who obviously remembers Barry a lot better. Yeah. And knows his parents. It might be worth if we do local things or if we do something, we're never gonna no, no one else we're slightly related to in any way that's gonna be in that True Crime podcast, but like how Joel, our friend yeah. Has a if we're doing a local case, we might as well just put on the Instagram. Is anyone, we're doing a stories, yeah, we're doing the local case. Does anyone know anything? Because yeah. Ancestry baby. Because since we started doing it, people have started cropping up being like, oh yeah, this and that. Yeah, this link. Yeah. But then she also said, we've sold some cr No, I'm joking. We've sold nothing. We sold none. She also said Barry did used to sometimes come to the stables where we kept our horses. A, what is it called? The actual word? Ventriloquist. That's not what I mean. Equestrian. Equestrian. Yeah. An equestrian child. And then she said he tried to ride my horse once, but he fell off. Oh. And that was the last thing she told me about Laurie. But she did say she's gonna speak to my nan. So maybe we'll have a little update episode if I ever get loads of information about Yeah. Him like, be fascinating. Yes. That was, especially if no one's really ever done a podcast episode on him as well. And you have so much. I didn't talk about him. He's a spree killer, but in the grand scheme, the thing, the fucking shit that was going on in the seventies. Yeah. Also, like he was, this was his day in the office. Yeah yeah, but that's all up. Shall we get stuck in Yeah, I'm gonna take a big golf. Do I have any updates? No, I have nothing. Sorry guys. We might have a little special guest on or as well Yeah, unsure whether he'll join us. We're trying to get Tom drunk as well, even though we've left him, we left him do, he's playing the switch. He bought a switch, so he's downstairs. Yeah. And he's, yeah, we fed him a baby Guinness and I said, bye. You tea did, I didn't even give him a beer though, so I should have probably done that. He knows where the fridge is. He does joking. I say this. Drinking your beer, like he went out and got his piggy biscuit. Yeah, he's bought us tea. Yeah. As he does. Little angel. Okay, so yes, let's just dive in. I say let's just dive in for, we've fucking 11 minutes. Just let's just cut the, to the chase. So the Unabomber was classified as a domestic terrorist who operated between the years of 1978 and 1995. So they spent 20 years hunting him. Yeah. And I think that's why I think that this case is so megas just because of its, I mean it is because it's a two-parter, but like it's length of time. How do you spend 20 years bombing people? Yeah. And no one can find you. Yeah. It is crazy. And in part two,'cause we're not even remotely gonna get near that today. Yeah. But when he's caught the way that he's caught it's fuck all to do with police work. Not really. Yeah. It's some, I guess it's a bit of the butterfly effect. Like some of the things they do set off a chain of events that allow people to you, say this is Ted Kozinski, but that. Yeah. Yeah. That it's not to do with police work at all. Yeah, so the man's name was Theodore John Kozinski Kaczynski's campaign of terror brought to the forefront negative impacts of rapidly advancing technology and created newfound fear of Ecoterrorism. Obviously I don't think people had, I don't think it was at the forefront of people's minds. So there was ecoterrorism going on, which is essentially just people murdering or attacking, or sabotaging in the name of protecting the environment. Yeah. But but I don't think it was as in the public view as when the Una bomber was at his height. So we're gonna start with Ted himself. We're gonna talk about his life, who he was, and how he got to where he was. And then we will get into the crimes we will get. To part of the crimes today, but we will only get a portion of the way through and then the rest of that will come in part two next week. Yeah. But it's fucked and it can take you down a little conspiracy. Yes. But I dunno how much you know about this, but while I was writing it, I was like, I definitely knew these things, but like I just hadn't, it hadn't registered and it's actually fucking mental. Mental. Okay, so Ted Kozinski was born May 22nd, 1942 in Chicago, Illinois. Towanda Beck and Theodore Richard Kozinski fucking named him. Yeah. Oh God. Okay. Would you name your child? Amy? What's your, her name? Rose Amy. Do you know mine? Alicia. Oh, you do know mine? Yes I do. I know everything about you, rose Group. It's Rose. But yeah, that is what would I name someone, rose. Would you name someone Amy? Someone. Amy. You say your child? Amy. Alicia Gray. Because that's the same thing, isn't it? He's name, his name is Theodore Richard Kaczinski and yeah, his is Theodore John Kaczinski. Yeah. There's no need. There's no need mate. Also, like it's it's not fair because like just think of a different name. But I get like the hereditary part of naming someone your middle name. Yeah. But like this whole like John and John Jr. It's come on. Yeah. You have the chance to be creative here. Yeah. And you just want for the same fucking name. Yeah. It goes by Ted. Anyway, what was the fucking point of theater? Yeah. Literally. Yeah, It's not even what you would yeah, I guess it is. What else would you go for? Fed? Hi, I'm Do Kazinski too. Funny. Yeah, no, I wouldn't name anyone after me. No. And I wouldn't name anyone after my middle name. Really? Just because I just, I'm like, why Rose? I dunno why. I just feel like Quality Street. That's just it. That's all I get from Rose and Roses. So funny. Not a Rose, just quality street. Just the Rose flavor. Turkish Delight. Turkish. I know my kids. Turkish Delight. Great. And then that takes me to Chronicles Lan. It's like a whole, it's like a whole thing I could deal with. Like obviously not Turkish delight, but I could deal with a coded. Reference to my name. Okay. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I do get that. Instead so that there's a nod to you tactical hints. Yeah. I think women should do that. Also, men, I don't get why you get to have the fucking naming rights when she squeezed it out. No. Like he, he should be called Wand D one direction. My 1D. Like she's the one who went through that fucking bodily trauma. You are like, I'm gonna give it my name. Yeah. Ugh. Gross. All right. So that was line three. I should probably get on Yeah. Every time before we start on a fucking runt. Okay. I don't know if that was a runt. I might be drunk or running. I think it might be so anyway, he had a younger brother called David. I dunno why I've said that David gets his own name because now I always move away from David and Darlene. No, it's important later. Okay. Know it all guys. But also like David gets his own name. Yeah, he use his own person. He's not called, not even his dad's. It's not even his dad's middle name. His dad's name's Richard. Shame. Yeah. Oh yeah. Okay, this is gonna be fucking cottage. So his father had a mo, his farmer, his brother had a sausage making business. He was, he a sausage salesman. A sausage. And his mother was a stay at home mom, so Okay. Fair as you are. Apparently his parents encouraged the two boys to study and knuckle down. So academics was like really important to them. So they were really focused on the boys being smart and successful at school. They were well off because he owned a factory. I think they were like middle class. Yeah. I don't think that, I think they were so it was just like, make sure you are doing well at school. Yeah. Not, we'll send you to the best school. I think they were probably comfortable and did what they could as much as they could for their kids. Yeah. Because like later on when like spoiler alert, he goes to Harvard and he goes on scholar. Okay. I don't think they're like rich. Yeah. But they're like, okay. But he did well. Yeah. And got him good places. Kaczinski was described as a bright child who had an affinity for mathematics. Fucking nerd. You have that Yes. Fucking nerd. Not like Kaczinski. Thanks. Fuck for that. Yeah, from an early age, it said that he took an IQ test and that ranked him at genius level, which is 167. Do you know anything about an IQ test? Yeah, I know that there's numbers in it. Yeah. And the sick. So do you know what I've done? I've wrote the little chart down. Yes, thank you.'Cause I was like, it doesn't mean anything to me this morning. I was finding out the exact dates for whether you are like a boomer, a baby boomer yeah. A millennial, like stuff like that. It just about, yes. And that is literal, literally what I said. She was like, it's literally until the end of the end of the year in nine six. And then nine, seven, I was like, oh my God, that's, I'm the literally she's on the cusp. I need to know because I have this thing where I understand which order they go in. And I understand when people say of an iq this is an iq, it's a high one. This. Yeah. I'll be like, I get it, but I don't. Know what it means. I don't, yeah, I, in order of a timeline of it. Not clue. When I said to you earlier that I had to look up quite a lot of things, it was because like the, there was like quite a lot of Americanisms that I don't necessarily feel like we adhere to. So like IQ test is something that they really do in America. Like they know their iq, they know their GPA. Yeah. They like, I have like they know that BMI, they know that bmi but we don't really that's not how we we don't measure that. That's not how we measure it. Yeah. Yeah. So I, like we just like levels of maths in school, like what level you were in, but no one would ever be like, let's test your Yeah. And IQ levels. There was nothing for me that said I Okay. 167. Like, where the fuck is that? Yeah. What does that mean? Yes. Okay. So explain it to me. Exactly. So I understand that's, you are saying it's a high iq, but I'd like to know what you mean by it being a hiq. Anyway. So Kuku, a hiq, A haiku. A haiku, they went full. You gonna do a hiq? No, I don't know what. Okay, so one to 24 is classed as profound mental disability. You, so that's you. Sorry, I was so rude. I just, it's really annoying. I couldn't even get, I like you. I heard it, it sounded like you were super far away. Sounded like you were back at your old house. What the actual hell? So funny. Sorry. Okay. You are probably not wrong as I was. It depends guys in the grand scheme. No, that's not funny. Yeah, it's not funny. It is not funny. So then 25 to 39 is severe mental disability. 40 to 54. Moderate and mental, not moderate. And mental. Moderate mental disability. 55 to 69. Mild mental disability. 70 to 84. Borderline mentor disability. 85 to 114 Average intelligence. Okay. 115 to 129 above average. Or bright. 130 to 144, moderately gifted, 145 to 159, highly gifted, 160 to 179, exceptionally gifted. So that's how do we find out what we are? Yeah, you do an IQ test, but can we do that from here? Not from here right now, but oh, probably, oh. Or do you have to like, there's like Buzzfeed IQ test. Yeah. So he was highly gifted? No. Exceptionally gifted. Yes. Wow. He was in that category. Okay. Okay. And then 180 up is profoundly gifted. Okay. So like a very slim percentage of people. Basically a hundred is the average score. Yeah. On an IQ test. I reckon that's slap word. He's smart boy. He's a smart boy. He's a very smart boy. Use it wisely. Is he? So it is also said that his brother it is also said that his brother David is actually also extremely bright. Wow. But Ted is a genius. Yeah. Yeah. So he skips the sixth grade. for US UK bodies, that's year seven. Yes. my mom skipped a grade. Fucking Jane Gray. My mom is intelligent. That doesn't surprise me. Have day gifted child advert. Not advert article about her in the newspaper. But my mom was so intelligent. Yeah. I'm not surprised. Yeah, she just skipped a, she just went ahead of her year. Yeah, because she was too smart for her year. Oh my god. Scary. But then I, so I wrote the next line was that Kaczinski himself said that this was significant because he was bullied by the older kids and I put big fish, small pond and and all that. But like I do think that there is, I get it in terms of like academia, for a child it makes sense, but socially Yeah. That surely has like implications. Yeah. Because imagine, I don't know, especially when you are like in year seven. Yeah. I couldn't imagine then having to go and be friends with like year eights, year nines, because. I'm like in their classes and stuff. Yeah. And they've already, if you're labeled a gifted child as well, like the expectation of you Yeah. Is that if you are, if you're excelling, excelling, and then you get moved up a year and then you get moved up another year and you get moved up another year and then you sit stagnant at that year because that's where your brain has developed. Yeah. And then you're just hanging out with people that are a lot older than you, but you can't do what they're doing. Yeah. And also like socially, but then also people are like, oh, I thought you were going to do more. And what, there's a demand in the uk I dunno about the us so I dunno way that, I don't know the way that they're years are split, but in the uk, year seven is like the first year of secondary school. So that's a new school. Yeah. Yeah. So everyone has established friendships. Yeah. In year eight, like that, those guys have been here for a year. Yeah. They've got their friendship groups. They know what they're doing. Kids are shit houses. If you were in year six and then they bumped you up to year eight, if you were in year four or five and then they bumped you up into year six or year seven, it's school, then it's fine because you're starting again with everyone. But year seven, yeah, year seven to go, just skip year seven entirely. I know your friends are still in that year, but they're like, you are not in our class anymore. So like back off. Yeah. And then older people are like, they don't see you in lessons. They're not gonna hang out with you'cause you're kids. Yeah. Also they're like, oh, too smart for us, are you? Yeah. So I just, it just feels like it has crazy implications for a kid. Of course. So in high school, this is what I wrote word for word. In high school, he joins a big bunch of nerd clubs. Jesus club. Yeah. Because I obviously couldn't be asked to write down PY Club, but it's like maths, fucking and Debate, I'm sure. Yeah. That kind of stuff. Triangle Club. And he has described as a triangle. And he's described as a walking brain, as a former Wow. As a former, by a former classmate. Okay. So he did actually make friends with some like-minded boys who loved maths and science, and they were dubbed the Briefcase Boys. Oh my God. Due to the fact that they usually carried so nerd. Why is that the guy after in between us? Yeah. If you're not helping yourself, by the way, with a briefcase. So then he also skips 11th grade. Wow. Which in the UK is the first year of sick form. Wow. Yeah. God, he that's, yeah. And he eventually graduates high school at 15? That is correct. 15. But then what is there for you then? Wow, you missed all your childhood by just like skipping out all the grade. So this is it. I obviously think it's important I don't think it's important to strive academically in school.'cause I do think, but you need to grow up and use school to grow up. I think like it's not just about grades, it's about growing up one of the hindrances in school. Like I couldn't, what's gonna do, get a fucking job in an office at 15 years old. So at 16 he is accepted to Harvard University. Wow. Yeah, actually at 15, but he's actually accepted and he doesn't go until 1958. At 16 when he's there on a scholarship. Yeah. And I guess is that there's not other people anywhere near his age? There are, I think there are some people, so I read, I haven't wrote this down, but I read that he lived in a housing. With other people that are younger. Yeah. That were other, yeah. Young and gifted a scholarship is, different then, but it just seems crazy to just go off to uni. I do always think it's really sad when there's no So recognition of the social issues that come from moving someone away from their peers Yeah. Their, the peers, their age and Yeah. What that takes away from them socially about what they're gonna learn about who they become. Yeah. Like it, I'm not saying it's not, you wouldn't think it was a drastic difference. Only a year above, but it fucking is. Yeah. I just, yeah. And the comfort of he's constantly being thrown into these environments twice. He's skipped grades. Being put into older years with kids who are far socially Yeah. Better versed than he is. Yeah. So how does, how do you come back from that? Yeah. Like how do you make up for the time lost or the things that you don't know and how do you not get fucking ridiculed? Fuck. Yeah, that's a good point. So Otto, he's going to fucking Harvard. Yeah. This is money. Yeah. These are people with money. So to come from like a middle class background, but be exceptionally gifted. Yeah. To them being like, I can, before I'm even 20 years old, Uhhuh I will have established a life for myself. A lifestyle. I will move with the same circles of like in the same circles as people that are high class like, but business people as you can imagine, like he's gonna do bits not totally accepted because you are coming on a scholarship. Yeah. So you are gifted and he is academically gifted, but he's extremely socially awkward. Yes. Yeah. And he has a lack of privilege. Yeah. So he, again, people don't accept him. Also, if people have worked their ass off and got there at the age of 18, and then there's someone that's 16 coming in, you're just gonna be like, oh, who does this kid think he is coming in when everyone else has had to do it the normal way? Yeah. And I think so articles that talked about him really exaggerated how much of a loner he was. But I did actually read this one Atlantic article that basically states that it, it's over exaggerated to high heaven. He did throw himself into his studies, but he wasn't completely isolated. He was somewhat isolated. But he wasn't completely isolated. And actually there was a friend of his from Harvard that was in the Netflix Unabomber documentary Yeah. That I watched as well. And he was saying like. Ted was quiet when you didn't know him, but once you knew him, he'd talk your fucking ear off. Yeah. And he did have friends. He just didn't have many friends. Yep. Also, if you spend your whole life just knuckling down and learning shit. Yeah. You only gift your social time to the people that mattered the most. Also what he was doing like maths ma, it mattered to him. Yeah. Like the problem solving it was what he wanted to put his full focus into. Yeah. And if there was other people around him that didn't care for that, then he had nothing to talk to'em about. Yeah. Also, if I'm like trying to do some cashing up and stuff in my brain, I can't talk to us all. So he, if he's, if his whole life's maths. Yeah. I just think that he got tired. That was his passion, like when you find something that you really love doing and if that's the thing that he like connects with people. Yeah. Like through. Yeah. If you are not on that wave, that position, he's not gonna connect with you, is he? Yeah, for sure. So basically in the documentary where this guy's talking about if you knew Ted, he would talk you off. That is the case until his second year of Harvard and then he really begins to withdraw from his friends. So this loaner persona that they have built up about him is true to a certain degree. Yeah. It wasn't always true about him, but it does become quite true. Yep. So something very big and interesting happens in his second year at Harvard. Okay. So he participates in a study led by psychologist Henry Murray, involving 21 other undergrad. The project is designed to investigate how students react to extreme abuse and humiliation. The fuck. Yeah. Or as they put it, stress. Of course. Yes. Within the experiment, subjects are given code names and his is lawful. Which is quite fucking funny. And the experiment went on for three years. Oh God. Three years. So there are his friends. So this starts during his second year. His second year at Harvard, and then goes on for three years. And they know, his friends note that this is the sort of point where he starts changes. Yeah. And they don't really know why. And he there was one story about somebody who lived with him, going to sit with him in a canteen and he literally ate his food really quite quickly. Quickly and ran off, walked away. So yeah. And essentially within the experiment they. They debated personal philosophy and like beliefs and aspirations. What they asked them to do is write their beliefs and aspirations in an essay, and then they used this to confront and belittle the subjects. Goodness. Yeah. So they were like, what do you think is you at the core of who you are? What do you believe? Yeah. Who do you think you are also? And then they use that to tear them apart. People that I understand more and con consider more and think more about the world and beliefs and stuff, like they tend to have a more. Active mind and which means that you overthink more because you're thinking about so much and you can store so much that you are constantly thinking and that your inner voice is like constantly going and worrying. And if someone's using that to then intelligently flip that against you, it's somebody pulling the rug from underneath you. Yeah. You know who you are as a person. Why is there at like in university as well, it's can't you just wait? Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Okay. The experiment was part of the CIA backed project. MK Ultra. Yeah. Okay. And I'm assuming, or have heard what MK Ultra is. Yes. I just put a little overview. So MK Ultra was an illegal and secret CIA research program that operated from 1953 to around. The early seventies. And basically after the Cold War, there was a super big fear about mind control and brainwashing. Yeah. That was a huge issue. So what they wanted to do was basically control human behavior and unconsciousness. And to do this, they used extreme methods. The goal was to develop mind control methods for intelligence and psychological warfare. And basically what they wanted to do was be able to erase memories. Yep. And in certain new behaviors, which is so fucked. It's so fucked. And MK Ultra is a whole thing in itself. Also they did this, the CA did this through like hospitals and prisons and universities. Like they, there was no, no one was Yeah. Not fair game. Yeah. While they were trying to do that, because you'd think like us being like, people that wouldn't do something like that, like why would you take someone from, the thing is they also, most subjects were on like they didn't know. Yeah. Yeah. They didn't know that they were the part of, even Ted Kozinski did not know what he was putting himself forward for. Yeah. He just thinks this something, he thought he was there to debate belief and philosophy. Yeah. He didn't know that he was, the whole point was to belittle him, to break him down as a person. Yeah. And when someone has a gifted mind and you don't just let their mind be gifted toy with their mind, it's dangerous. It's a dangerous game. Yeah. But also, if extremely intelligent people have. Trauma. And pain. They can use their gifts in the wrong way, but there's a correlation between intelligence and mental illness. Yeah. Like there, there is the more you know Yeah. The more you fear. Yeah. There is a, there, there is a, and I'll tell you what exactly, there's Rose Tyler from Doctor who, same thing. Once she knows everything. She is the bad wolf. But this is it. This is what they say, isn't it? Is that you can't survive knowing everything there is. Like the more you know, certain of your head, there is a, there's a certain bliss to ignorance. Yeah. Yeah. Like it is, we have had this debate before. Not debate. No. It's, but this conversation about whether it would be easier to live as somebody who could be ignorant to the things that are going on in the world. Yeah. To not empathize or worry about things that you cannot control. Yeah. And people say that is something that you should, pillars of control, that's something you should focus on, the things that you can control. But I think there's a certain level of fucking socio sociopathy. Yeah. To being able to ignore. Yeah. To ignore what is going on out there in the world. Yeah. And to not let it affect your life or your beliefs or your mental Yeah. But then the more things you're aware of and the more you hold in your own mind. Yeah. The more you lose control. Yeah. Of just being. Yeah. Because it's like what's happening in front of my eyes is not a right lot, but when you hold all of that information and someone is manipulating it. Yeah. The possibilities are endless and the, yeah. The mental disorder. During MK Ultra, they conducted hundreds of experiments and they were using like high dose of LSD and Yeah. Other, drugs that cause psychosis. Of course.'cause what they needed was for you to bring up memories and then put you in this sort of state of suggestiveness. Yeah. Which is what things like LSD did. Yeah. Also, if you take a gifted person who's like extremely intelligent and then you throw a load of LSD in there. Yeah. I'd be like telling people that I know those neural pathways are fucking Z. I'd be like, I know all, I see all a hero, all, and I'm not anywhere near that scale of iq. I was about to pick my mic up and drink it. I saw that. I was like, what that heck? Yeah. But they say is DMT the one that they say you like? You take it and aliens. Were we talking about this the other day? Yeah, we were. I love how you're like, was it DMT? Is it DMT? Yeah. Yeah. I think it is DMT. And it's supposed to change your brain waves and make you think completely differently. Yeah. That's what they're trying to do. They're trying to make people give you the ultimate of everything so that they can abuse that power. But they use other things like they use electro shop therapy and hypnosis and sensory deprivation, which is something horrible terrifies me. Yeah. Yeah. And then just general psychological torture, which is something that they obviously used on the boys at Harvard when they were doing this experiment, it was about psychological torture'cause they weren't using any of the other methods. And it would be considered highly illegal. Everything did is considered illegal, but it would be what they did to even Ted Kazinski would be considered illegal now. Yeah. Yeah. And they even did it to their own CIA agents. So that's MK Ultra. So that is just an interesting tidbit because Ted himself says that he is annoyed about the experiments, but thinks it has nothing to do with his development. But I, you just can't convince me that he would've been, what, 17? Yeah. Yeah. Maybe 18. And as a 17-year-old boy as a 17-year-old anyone, but as a 17-year-old boy, like your mind is so susceptible. There's a lot for you to develop and it's not an excuse, but it's a, yeah. Never an interesting part of his, an excuse, his origin. Sorry. We talk about this. Like how your childhood has been is how it will be yeah. Developing and affecting everything that happens. So I think it just because if this same, the exact same events happen to a different person, doesn't mean the same outcome would happen. No. But it is interesting to note Yeah. About, especially the fact that he thinks that it's not a big deal. Yeah. During his time at Harvard, it is believed that his, through his readings and then the Murray experiment he began to develop a deep disdain for technology. Okay. And yeah. So that, this is where it all begins is his feelings towards tech, technological advancements and what that would do with the environmental impact and what that does to a person's freedom. Yeah. Which is a huge, and I have to say we are not gonna talk about his manifesto until part two. Agree with him. Some of it. Yeah. Yeah. Which is fucking wild. It's interesting, isn't it? It's absolutely wild. He wasn't wrong. Yeah. Like the, what he did was wrong, but some of the things that he predicted happening, if we didn't do something about. The way that we're advancing scientifically he wasn't incorrect. Yeah. And for someone that's brain, literally can fathom and hold all of that information, like Bruce just saying Yeah. What people can't work out. And right now also, before he starts the killing I understand the sort of we'll talk about it in part two, but the, how he gets there. Yeah. Yeah. How he gets there. I it's not right. Like it's not right and it's not helpful and, but I understand how he decided to go down the route that he did. Yeah. The route that he went. Yeah. And I do know a slight bit about that. Yeah. I'm sure I know bits about his manifesto because I think I basically, I was also gonna do this, so I do know bits, but yeah, we're getting, that would be a point where I'm like, we, I've been there, I've been like, whoa, this guy would be smart. After he leaves Harvard, he goes to the University of Michigan and he earns his master's and his PhD. And that's in 1967. So he's only 25 at this point. Wow. And he has a doctorate 25 PhD man at 25 25, which is insane. Yeah. So then in 1966, he experiences an intense sex, like intense sexual fantasies and it's about being female and he decides to undergo transitioning. Wow. So he goes to a psychiatrist. But while he's in the waiting room of that psychiatrist, he changes his mind. Okay, sure. But he still goes into the appointment. So when he goes in there, he just talks about other things. Yeah. He doesn't bring up why he thought he was there. Yeah. He doesn't talk about it. I'm sure he is got lots to talk about, to be honest. And I know that, that seems like I've just bought something that's fairly irrelevant. No, but it be, but it's not, it comes, back's important. It's all same with David, but that's just something to tell you that's what happened in 1966. So in 1967, he's offered a tenured position teaching at Berkeley. Yeah. However, in June, 1969, after he's worked there for two years, he, without explanation resigns. Do you know that explanation? And he leaves and he goes back to his parents. Yes. Nowadays. Basically what Ted Kaczinski says after he's captured is that basically he used Berkeley at this point. He'd already decided that he was done with technology. He did not want to be a part of society. And what he really wanted was to live out in the wilderness. Yeah. And be away from civilization. Yeah. So he decided to take the position of Berkeley because that was the only way he was gonna get the money to buy the land money. To be able to do that. To do what he wanted to do. Yeah. And as soon as he had that money, he said goodbye. Yeah. I'm done. Like a driven, intelligent person who's just being like a logical decision. I can't hold all of this information that I see the world going, the way the world's gonna go. And I don't wanna be anything to do with it. Oh, it's nothing to do with me. Yeah. I wanna back the fuck out and get into the woods. Oh. Which I'd love to do it, except I don't wanna live in the woods. So I think it would be quite nice. Oh, God. Sounds tiresome. I know, but I just live in a caravan, so I was basically off. Yeah. I'm used to houses. Yeah, that's fair. But I do see his like reasoning to just, yeah, if I could get enough money, I'd be like, peace and quiet. No one's speaking to me. Couple of animals. And that is essentially what he is. He's I want peace and quiet. Yeah. And I'd like to say I'm not, especially if someone knows the way that the world going, I'm not saying he's a good person, but that's essentially where he's at this point in his life. If he just wants fucking peace and quiet and he's brain is probably so fucking loud that he's just you know what? Yeah. Just get me out there. And if someone's so academically understanding of the way that the world is going. I'd back out to also, he's not all good. Like he is not all good. And you, there's things you find out about him, like he's framed as this fucking eco warrior. Yeah. But there are things about him that you think is that why you were doing it? Or is it just because society rejected you and because slightly rejected you. You had a fucking tantrum. Yeah. Yeah. And said it's about the environment from what I know so far. Yeah. I wouldn't be too sad if that was turned out to be my life, but I know what his life turns out to be yeah. Basically he resigns and then he moves back in with his parents. So that's in 1967. Yeah. And then in 1971, he has spent the last few years build, building a remote cabin in Montana on a piece of land that he's bought. So does he get farm animals? Oh no. My God. You wanna hear about his cabin? So his cabin is one. Oh no. Running water. Oh my God. No electricity. Oh my God. Don't think it has any windows either. Is this my caravan? He lived off a garden that you tended and his own hunting ability and he lived a totally isolated existence. However. And this is where you start to be like, okay, this person, sorry, just side note, this person I knew once told me that if you lived completely off the grid Yeah. If you lived, if you were completely off grid. For, I can't remember how many years. He said maybe five. And no one knew where you were. They just wrote off your student debt. So do you think that's just what he was trying to do, get rid of? No, you got a scholarship, so it's paid for student debt's not Oh, yeah. True. Yeah. Yeah. If you've got a fucking grant and you've had No, not grant, that's the same thing. It's a loan. Sorry, A loan. Yeah. Yeah. As student debt. Yeah. Yeah. I was, he was like, if I don't, but do you know how fucking hard it is to get off grid? Yeah. So I basically Impossible because Yeah, these days. Yeah, these days. Even if you had a phone. Yeah. You're on grid. Yeah. The, yeah, he said if you're off grid, but I like, he couldn't be off grid, like all of his posts sent to his moms and stuff like that. But he still had a bank card. Like you just can't be off grid. That's not off grid. Yeah. You'd have to have no interaction with the system, essentially. Yeah. To be off grid, living off the federal land. Yeah. Yeah. I say he lives a totally isolated existence. However, he does get an allowance from his parents. Yeah, that is so funny. Suckling at mommy and daddy's cheek. Is it is so funny. That is literally yeah. People like being like, oh, look at me. And I like, am I like, it's like when self p people play solar. Yeah. Like like solar paneled. Yeah. Water running like cabin that I just live in and I just live with this like open fire every night and it's actually you find out it's attached to their fucking mom and dad's house. I take after and the universe speaks to me, but mom and daddy are hang for literally every single weekend. It's oh, I just go off to this cabin where there's literally no one there for miles and miles and miles and miles and everything's run all by itself. All from undergrad. And it's yeah. And it cost you 60 grand to make that happen. Your mom and dad. 60 grand and an art degree. And you think you did that on your own, literally. Yeah. It is. I'm saying that as a. Some with an art degree. Yeah. All but not 60 grand. Yeah. You, 60 grand. I've heard better than a great point. Yeah. So not only is he getting an allowance from his parents, he also would essentially scam his mom by saying that, ah I need to go to the doctor, but I've got no money. Oh my God. I need to have this procedure done, but I've got no money. This procedure. Yeah. Ew. So yeah.'cause obviously it costs fucking shit on America, isn't it? Yeah, of course. But that was how he would scam his mom and just sending him more money. Yeah. So bad. Like him being like, I'm going to earn all of this money to build myself a place. Yeah. And then I'm gonna live off the land that I'm on and off my family, but I don't wanna walk down to the, I don't wanna walk down to the river. They fucking decided that they were going off grid. Literally. Now what? Ted. Yeah. Fucking hell yeah. It's gone down Ted mate. A piece of shit. Yeah. Immediately when I started to read that, I was like okay. Yeah, no, don't like that. Once again, my dream, I do. It's been crushed by some. Man. So while he's there, he writes an essay and he lays out the ideas that would essentially be laying out again, but in far more detail in his manifesto years later. However, in this essay, unlike the manifesto, he's a lot more optimistic that, as he calls it, the juggernaut of science at scientific technical progress could be stopped peacefully by an organization dedicated to stopping federal aid to scientific research. So basically, what is that sense? What he means is, what he's saying is he thinks. There is no solution to scientific progress. Scientific or technological progress. He thinks it needs to stop. So he's saying even if you work it out, what are you gonna do? Yeah. So there's no point in even knowing he said that every, it's not a tech, it's not a singular technology that is the problem. Okay. It is technology as a whole. Technological progress as a whole. Yeah. That feeds capitalism. Yeah. That basically gives people false hope. Yeah. And also means that people, essentially, his biggest problem is that he was like, it strips away freedom. Yeah. There is no form of freedom under Yeah. Money and trust into understanding something that we will constantly understand and will never resolve the system that provides you with a phone or a laptop. There is no system of that ethically. Yeah. And there is no way to. To control what that does to the environment. Yeah. What that does to an individual's freedoms and what Yeah. So that is what he's saying. And again, he's not wrong. No. Yeah. He's not wrong. He's not wrong. What he's saying is complete truth. Yeah. That you can't, there is no form of ethical under capitalism that it doesn't exist. Basically he he's living in this cabin, but he's living in this cabin off his mom and dad and then saying something. Yeah. So raw and true. Yeah. But then what are you doing about it, mate? Yeah. You just fucking suck. Fucking, hey mate. I'm not, I don't fucking, I'm not asking him to do something about it because he's about to start doing about that. I know where he's gonna start doing. But what are you what are you doing to help people? Like it's all well and good, you being like, look how smart I am with all my knowledge. And you write an essay and you say that this is how you do it, and that you say, okay, so we're taking away federal aid, scientific research. But what you are saying is taking away any advancement. Yeah. That's an impossibility for humanity. Yeah. That's not. That's not realistic. You haven't tried to find a realistic Yeah. Way. Yeah. And it might not be going in the best direction for your opinion, but it has helped in the past Yeah. To resolve things. So there's two sides to this debate, but there's also, there's people out there who believe the same thing, who have tried to find sustainable methods Yeah. Of doing what we are doing. The progress happening the better way. Yeah. But finding a way of it impacting people and the environment far less. And you are just writing an essay. You're just writing an essay saying, you know what? I'm gonna do bad things world and then having a time world bad. Yeah. And I'm in my cabin and I don't wanna be in the world because the world is so bad and I'm sick of it. But you are not providing any ethical what? We're fucking hour now. I haven't even got to the crimes yet. Let's shut the fuck up. Tell me the crime. Fucking okay so in 19 70, 75, he begins sabotaging development that were cropping up near his cabin. And basically he is using booby traps and arson, apparently within environmental activism. This is known as monkey wrenching. Oh, sure. That's cute. And this is because of Edward Abbey's 1975 novel, the Monkey Ranch Gang. Okay. Which is basically about ecot, which is Yes, eco sabotage. Okay. Cute. And then in 1983, he does a little hike, two day hike away from his cabin to like his favorite spot. And when he gets there, he realizes that a road has been built through it. Okay. And this is where he's I'm gonna get revenge. I hate the world. I'm gonna get revenge on the system. Stick it to the man. Yeah, basically. So in the documentary there's a few stories about things that he does in and around the area. So basically one neighbor. Owns a sawmill and Ted hated the noise. So he put sand in the sawmill. Which essentially destroys the equipment. Yeah. Yeah. And they, it costs them thousands to fix it. Awkward. This person thought that Ted Kaczinski was a friend. Oh yeah. Which is quite sad. And they don't obviously find this until after Ted's court. So it is not something they knew. They just thought it was like kids or something. Yeah. They did not know it was himself option.'cause you wouldn't think it was a full grown adult doing something like that to you. Yeah. Playing fan your machine. No.'cause you're making too much noise. Yeah. Which is fucking wild. Okay. And then another thing he does, this one's fucked. Another thing he does is basically he, the woods around his house, there's these people and they are like riding motorbikes and they're really loud and they're using. A road that is actually closed and that's near his house, but they're using it anyway'cause they don't care. So what he does is one morning when he knows that they're not in the cabin, he goes to their cabin and he uses an axe to cut a hole in the site. He doesn't use the door, he doesn't try to cut down the door. He cuts a hole in the side of the cabin to get in. He goes in, he trashes it and then world and put this in all caps. He took a shit in their bath, to shit. Okay. Hear me out. I think the bath is that bad? Yeah. You can smash it down the drain, aren't you? Yeah. Like I would rather you shut in my bath than you shut in my bed. She's back. Guess who's back in the house. What about Best from him? Starts Lemon Do. So we ended on him taking a shit in the bath. Yeah. And I said it would be worth. If he took a shit in the bed. Yes. Oh my God. Because you have to scoop it. Someone would have to scoop it in the oven. Whereas if you took a shit in the bath, someone could just stamp it. Yeah. Like it can into the drain. Yeah. It can be easily resolved. That's where water is. Yeah. You borderline in the toilet, but also don't fucking do. It's still an inconvenience. It's still a massive inconvenience. And also if you walk through the front door and took a sh took a shit in the bath, maybe you'd be like, does my also lives in this cabin? Take a shit. Do you know what I mean? It would be the forever ending question of who took a shit in the bath as opposed to it being like someone has broken in a hole, the whole is destroyed and there's a hole in the wall. Oh yeah. So they know that somebody has, yeah. They're not like, did I take a shit in the van? Maybe when I went to the toilet last night. Accident Sha back. Yeah. Or the debate of being like, yeah, but it was you. You were the last one to leave. So you maybe took the shit in the bath. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he takes the shit in the bath and yeah. That's not okay. That's that. Those are the things that he does around his area. But he's but it is because he's these people were too loud and Yeah. And they didn't understand the walls, but his neighbors. So the one that owned the saw mill, I've forgotten their names'cause I don't write'em down. But I didn't think it was important. If you remembered them, I'd be terrified. Yeah, exactly. But basically the, I think the guy who own the saw must be dead because he was not in the documentary, but his wife and his daughter were. Okay. Yeah, definitely. And they were talking about how there was like this one time where they were out in the woods and they had this feeling like the mom had this feeling like hair on the back of her neck standing up. And she was like, I thought it was a mountain lion. I thought it was a mountain lion. And then she goes. Imagine just being, she's why I took the kid and I was like, let's get out here. And basically in his journal afterwards, there was this one day, that same day where Ted Kki watching people in the woods was out with a, like a rifle God. And he was like, I could kill them both. My God, I killed the little bitch in the big bitch. Oh my God. But he obviously decided not to because it was too close to his home. And that's the only reason he didn't kill them. Just'cause it was too close. And yeah, the smell might reach me, the problems might come to my door. Also I'm not gonna lie, for the first bit of the researching him before you get into too much detail, you're a bit like, oh, I do see where he's coming from. And then eventually it starts to get quite in Sally. And you're like, he just hates women. Yeah. Yeah. And he's mad that nobody, do you know, when you were explaining it earlier, I was literally like, what a fucking, adolescence esque vibe. Yeah. Is it that someone is I am so intelligent and technology is so everything, but also nothing, but also everything, but also this is the way it's gonna go. Do you know what I mean? Like it's like the fact that you've isolated yourself from that Yeah. Has made you into Also, I totally wonder if he's a virgin. Like Yeah, I know that. That's a bit of a weird thing to say, but I do really feel, but if you've never connected, like I bet he thinks that he's too intelligent for anyone. It doesn't feel like there's ever been a moment, not that I could find where he's had any sort of connection. Yeah. And you'll see later also if you're not sexually obsessed Yeah. When you are gonna go on to do the things that he does. If. Having sex or being sexual with people isn't something that you are constantly doing. Yeah. It's like you probably think that you are too intelligent for anyone to have anything also to do with you, but also you are above everyone. Later on he like has a big problem with his brother's wife and stuff, and like he's never met. Yeah. And like it's insane. And you're like where does that even come from? And then also I just, I, yeah, I just feel like that you, there are other occasions with women that are just like, and I'm not saying that he doesn't believe in what he's saying in his manifesto and stuff, but I feel like a lot of his anger is coming from a place of feeling like he doesn't fit in, feeling like no one cares about him. Yeah. And feeling like he's, and a psych psychologist in the documentary I was watching talks about his transitioning his fancies and it's it's not that he actually had gender dysphoria, it's that he. He never connected with, did not know how to connect with women, so therefore decided he should be a woman. So that, because also, if you think you are the most intelligent person in any room, how can anyone else help you understand something? You have to help you understand something because you are the smartest person. Which means if you need to understand women, why not just be a woman? Become a woman? Yeah. Yeah. It makes so much sense. So anyway, in 1990, his father is diagnosed with terminal lung cancer, and October the second, 1990, his father takes his own life in his home. Wow. I'm gonna assume that was'cause he didn't want Yeah. It to go out on anyone to get through the, anyone other to get the pain. Yeah. Any on other than his terms. Yep. So that's that, that we've skipped ahead to 1990 there. But we're gonna go back now because finally an hour in, actually an hour and 10 minutes. We're going to the 25th of May, 1978. Yep. Parcel is left at the University of Illinois Chicago, who go There is return address on the label addressed to professor at Northwestern. The package was returned to Northwestern to Professor Edward John Smith, a computer aerospace engineer. Yes. So it's found at the University of Illinois and it has returned to Northwestern because of the return address. So it just looks like it's been found somewhere on campus, man. Yeah. Someone's been actually trying. Someone's been, this isn't addressed to anyone. Yeah. So when it gets to Edward John he doesn't recognize the package. And he contacts an on-duty campus security officer, and that is Terry marker. How smart though? Yeah, because I'd be like a parcel for me. Yeah. I open other people's parcels at work all the time. Yeah. I'll be like, oh my God, I sent a parcel. It's been returned. I've never sent a parcel. In since I had Depop in like literally, but also 2015 if someone sent something to our work and then the return address was me. Yeah. Wow. And someone returned it to my address, I would be like, not even that, I haven't sent a pa, if someone left a parcel outside our work with your return address on it. That's essentially what he's done. Yeah. So like he didn't, so Oh, so it couldn't be at work. Basically what happens is they'd be like, why the fuck have you fucking send this to work? You've come three fucking day he doesn't recognize the parcel. He contacts the on, on campus security officer. And that is Terry marker. When Terry opens the package, it partially detonates injury. Oh my God. But not killing him. Okay. Yeah. So they hypothesized about why the bomb was just left at this campus? Yeah. And it was because it was too big for mail slots. Wow. So any male slots. So they had to, so he obviously didn't want to go and post it and post it. So he just left it somewhere for someone to find somewhere that with the return address and somewhere that you wouldn't really. Be able to work out who that was because so many people come and go all the time. Yeah. Whereas if someone had just left something outside someone's house, it would be like, oh, I saw this guy coming up to my house. But yeah. Makes sense. And basically experts described this bomb as crude and unsophisticated, which I'm sure he did. Not fucking Yeah. Literally mate. So that's unsophisticated. Yeah. Are you fucking kidding me? That's bomb. I went Touni when I was 15. Fuck. Cute. Yeah. I believe he's schizophrenic and the sad thing is that he was capable of great things. Yeah. And don't get me wrong, his schizophrenia obviously played into his delusion about what was gonna happen. And probably led him to, not the schizophrenia, but the combination led him to violent solutions instead of peaceful solutions. Yeah. But yeah, he did have something that was feeding into it. Yeah. Then on the 9th of May, 1979, so a year later at Northwestern University, again fucking loves doing the same shit. A bomb is left on a table on the campus. It's built into a cigar box and it's just left there for anyone to find. Oh, I would pick that up so fast. Same fucking cigar. I'm such a nosy piece of shit. What bougie thing New Year's is coming up, mate. It's made with flashlight, batteries, match heads and wires, and described as extremely amateur again. Oh. So this tells them he's working out how to build the bomb. Build the bomb properly. So like he is smart because he understands how to put everything together and what he needs, but he doesn't know how to make problems. And obviously if you make one you can't designate. It gives that, so he is probably designating them in the, or whatever, draw stuff, but one that he thinks might designate and be detrimental. He's putting in places that's if it kills the whole entire room, who cares. But if it doesn't, yeah. Then I'll just make another one. So after the second bomb he wrote in his diary that the person who had received it had been maimed but not killed, and he was disappointed a graduate student at Northwestern University, John Harris. He was injured, gaining cuts on his arms and burns around his eyes, but he did survive. Okay. He, yeah, he kaczinski also wrote that he had hoped that the victim would be blinded or loser limb. Okay. That's nice. In the documentary lady said that locals would have loads of cars and trucks lying around on use and Ted would just help himself to parts and he was using those to build the bombs. Okay. So Ben, 15th of November, 1979. American Airlines flight four. Four. Four. Yes. Here we are. So a package was sent through the mail and ended up on this on this airline. And the device that ends up on this airline is different as it's set to be triggered by altitude. So he knew exactly what you're fucking doing. Yeah. He's really taken a step up here. He knew that it would end up on a plane. Yep. And he felt the, it would self detonate and he was he was smart enough to make a device that could recognize Understand the tude. The tude. Yeah. Which is crazy because it feels like the first one is oh, disruption. Explosion. The second one, it's like, it hasn't killed someone, but he was willing to kill a fucking canteen full of people. Do you know what I mean? Or like a room full of people. This one, it's I see what I've done, has done. Yeah. You're like, I'm going in hard. Because he's not ashamed. A massive escalation as well. Yeah. And he's not ashamed to say, oh, the first time I did it, it was supposed to do this, and now I've done it. As like he's also, he's bracket, he sets the altitude. To 34,000 feet. So he's waiting until they're up there. Yeah, everyone's up there. There's no way you would survive that if a bomb went off, which is so interesting as well, because if you wouldn't survive it, if a bomb went off and you were in a plane, but it was on the ground, you could potentially also affect people that are in, it's almost like he wants to, in the, he wants to do it when it's like, what happened? Yes. We were in midair and Do you know what I mean? There's like a mystery about it, but also I think it's like the whole, if you set one it would be really hard to get a pain on a bomb, a plane on a bomb. A plane on a plane that was guaranteed. It's on the run. That's just timed. Yeah. However, altitude also guarantees fatality because of 34,000 feet. Because even if you don't, that bomb takes part of the plane. Everyone on that plane dies. You're going down. Yeah. Yeah. It's just fascinating, isn't it? That's like he's, instead of saying, I'll just get it on the plane. Yeah. And then I can just press go and it will just kill whoever.'cause it's even if you're in the air, you're going down regardless. Yeah. Like it's leaving No survivors. But it's also like this thing of being like, now you have to understand what happened. Yeah. In the sky, but, so the bomb does explode. And it's in the, it's in the luggage area but the plane holding 80 passengers Yeah. Is landed safely by the pilots. Yeah. And no one is injured, but some do suffer smoke inhalation because the cabin is covered and smoked. Yeah. But nobody dies. And basically fundamentally where the bomb was placed would've been fatal if the bomb was just more powerful. But the thing is about him is that he can't, he writes about it in his diaries, but he can't seem to make a fatal bomb, like for a really long time. Yeah. Yeah. He struggles to make and he, it's from no lack of trying, like he is trying to make a fatal bomb, but he can't, it isn't until in the nineties, I think. So right now I'm in 79. Yeah. And I, he doesn't make fatal bomb until he's in the nineties. Yeah. Which is I dunno why I can't tell you. Yeah. It must be really hard to make a favor. It must be, yeah. It must be quite hard because I feel like he's like exceptionally intelligent. Yeah. And obviously trying to cause serious damage. I wonder if it's not lack of access Yeah. To materials or, if you are living off the fat of the land mate. I don't think he's got huge amounts of money to his name. Yeah. Interesting. So anyway this bomb showed a gr a degree of sophistication because he had to make anter, which is something that recognizes the altitude. And it did have the potential to take down the plane, but it just, again, wasn't powerful enough. In his journal Ted writes repeatedly about jets Yeah. That are flying over his cabin. That annoy him. Annoy him. So this must be, it's curious as to Yeah. That maybe that's why he chose a plane. And because he thinks that'll make all planes slash jets be like, oh, we'll never go anywhere. The fear, I'm sure the day after nine 11 Les planes are in the sky. Of course. But yeah. Like I think that was his, but the reality is like unfortunately as we've, we all know life goes on. Life goes on. I think it's interesting because I understand, he's if I create a fatality, then people will be more cautious. But you ain't gonna stop jets flying in the sky, my friend. You put a bomb on a plane, especially through the mail. Yeah. All that happens is security for the mail. Security gets higher. Yeah. The planes don't stop. Yeah. Yeah. And that's something he doesn't seem to ever be able to. Yeah. Like the fact that he's I'll go over and do this thing to my neighbor'cause they'll stop making noise. And it's yeah, but you'll have always have neighbors. Yeah. And they'll always make noise. So after bomb three, they finally made the connection to the two other bombings. Yeah. That had happened. And this is where they coined his name. Why he's called the uni bomber? No, the university and airline bomber. Oh, clever also. No. It's the uni bomber. Yes, because I was like the uni bomber. No, I was like, that's not what uni bomb is. Yeah. Fascinating. Yeah. So he is called the uni bomber because of the university and airline bomber. And this was my option one to end, but this is where I'm gonna end part one. Yeah. Yes, those are the crimes of the uniform. Very exciting times. We're leaving on an absolute dramatic note. It's gonna be more, it's gonna be great. It's gonna be fine. So thank you for listening. Yes. Thank you so much for listening. And the usual, follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Kill The Mood Pod. And email us at Kill The Mood Podcast. At email@atemail.com. At gmail.com. Yeah. Yes. And do the usuals. Thank you so much for listening. And we'll be back in five minutes once we probably had an on. Yes. But for you, it will be one week. 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