The Unabomber Part Two

This week, we’re back with part two of the Unabomber story, after a short break, a clear head, and yes… completely sober this time.

It’s Christmas Eve, the drinks are put away, and we’re diving deeper into the case of Ted Kaczynski. The escalation, the fear gripping the nation, and the cracks that finally began to form after years of unanswered questions. From the manifesto that changed everything to the mistakes that helped bring an invisible threat into focus, this episode explores how the hunt slowly turned inward.

With fresh minds and a more grounded approach, we try to untangle the psychology, the investigation, and the unsettling reality of how close this case came to never being solved at all.

So while the world outside is calm and festive, join two girls who still aren’t detectives, just a little more rested, as we sit with one of the most disturbing chapters in modern American crime.

Because even on Christmas Eve, some stories refuse to stay quiet. 

Transcript

0:14

Welcome to Kill the Mood podcast. We are here to talk to you about everything. Spooky Doy. There will be lots of true crime, but also just general mysteries. Some will be solved, some will leave you hanging. We are just two girls, but in the worlds to writes, but not really. We just like yapping. I'd also like to add that we are not professionals, just two ladies who apparently like the sound of their own voices enough to record them and believe that you will too. We mean no offense in anything we say. We like a huge percentage of the population, find all of this unfathomable. And this is just us in our own little way trying to make sense of the senseless. So without further ado, this week's case is Ted Kozinski part two part slash the uniform. I thought, what did you call it? The uniform? Yeah. I thought uniform was better.'cause like people are more likely to search the Unibomber Ted Kki. Yeah, because do you remember the other day when you were like, I was gonna do Ted Kozinski or, and I was like, I know Ted Kozinski. Yeah. And you were like, Amy, it's the uni bomb. That's what we're doing. I was like, I was gonna do the Unibomber and then I was like, or Israel Keys. And then I was like, but I went with Ted Kozinski. And then you were like. I know Ted Kaczinski and I was like, yes.'cause it's a fucking Unibomber. I know. It just wasn't, yeah, it was a questionable day, but Yeah. My brain, I just was like, as soon as you said it, I was like, oh yeah, obviously that's what we were just talking about. Also we think that we've got like some apologies to make because basically we obviously have been promising you a little Reda. Yes. A curter, a little Christmas murder. And we recorded it. And the point of the Reda was, we were gonna call it like Drunk Mystery. Yeah. But we basically got ahead of ourselves and we're recording part one and two of Ted Kozinski the same day. Got pissed before we started Ted Ky Fault.'cause it's he 0.1. Yeah. Got too drunk. Had to stop recording and we stopped at a place we weren't even gonna stop at. So this part two is gonna be massive. Yeah. And then had to record the Christmas episode, which we're not even Sure is hir. Yeah. We, it's about two and a half hours long that we need to cut out a lot of shit. It's fucking terrible. I think it's so bad. It is so unhinged. But I'm really glad that you went with a crime that was a long time ago. I know. This is what I mean. I was like, I need to go Something that's a long time ago. That's quite unhinged. There's lots of twists and turns and there's actually only one person that gets killed. Yeah. Instead of it. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I was literally like, we've got two and a half hours, but I reckon we've only got a half an hour. Actual Amy's All right.'cause she told the story and the amount of times though that I'm like, where am I? Where am I? She just keeps going. I can't see, I can't see. I can't see, I dunno where I am. And like I'd read one sentence and we'd all just lose our shit for about 20 minutes and then you'd hear, I go, I'm fine. And then I'd just look back at the screen and be like, what am I reading? Yeah, it was terrible. I'd say a sentence and then literally look at you and be like, did I just say that? You literally would. So yeah. God knows what would've happened if we'd recorded all three Also, we got up to piss maybe 50 times. Yeah. Every 20 minutes. Yeah, it was bad. It was really bad. So yeah, we did part one of which you listened to last week. Sorry if that was bad. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry I'm not even sure we gave you real co here. We didn't even give him any murders. We didn't give you any murders. I know. Not that I was gonna be able to, because if you know anything about the uni bomber, the murdering happens. Yeah. It takes a while at the end. So maybe it was the order that I chose to do it, but I only made it to bomb three. Yeah. And like he literally sets off 15 bombs. Yeah. We yeah, I edited it and I was like, I don't know what we're saying. This is nothing. This is, but we did okay for go on girl, gimme the dream, the drink going straight to our head. But then we were like, if we go straight in with the next one, none of it's gonna make sense. It's gonna make no sense. So we're yeah, we're sorry. Yeah. Also, it's Christmas Eve. Yes. So Merry Christmas. And also to say, sorry, we're giving you two episodes and two dates, so Exactly. You one today, one tomorrow. But you'll, you wouldn't, we'll be very drunk in tomorrow's episode. I'm hoping that you are gonna stockpile that you, because it would be far better to listen to part one and two together. I think. I just feel like you just got some information. If you listen, you just learned about a man's childhood. Cabin man, cabin boy, I don't, I know he had moved to the cabin. Hasn't yet. If someone listens to it and then has to wait a week till the next episode, I would be surprised if, I wouldn't be surprised if we lost the fans. I would not fucking suggest starting our podcast on that one either. Yeah. Maybe in the description I should write. Don't listen to this without talk too loud. Disc. Wait one minute. Disclaimer. We were drunk. Just wait a week. Yeah, just let, I think I did put in the description like we are a bit tipsy or something like that. Yeah. But yeah, I just, yeah, it's probably not, I don't know. I don't know, but I'm probably not gonna listen to it'cause I can't, it's secondhand embarrassment and all that. Merry Christmas. You filthy animals. Yeah. Merry Christmas Eve. I hope you are out. I hope you are getting fucking leathered, right? Yeah. Yeah. I hope that, that's exactly what we'll be doing. What are you doing on Christmas Eve? Me. Yeah, obviously. Who am I? Ask now. The fans. The fans tell us oh, that's terrible. Don't commit crime. I was thinking, I can't remember what I did last Christmas Eve. Like I assume you worked. I did what I did every Christmas Eve, which is go to. The spoons. Yes. Yes. Yeah, I remember. I think I worked in the day, but I can't remember. For instance, I remember drinking at home in the evening for a bit with, didn't a bunch of you go to the pub after you finished work? Yeah. I feel like you did because I got fomo. Yeah, I think we did go because I wasn't on shift. I think I worked Christmas day. No, Christmas Eve. I didn't work Christmas Eve, sorry. But I did work Boxing Day. Boxing day. And this year is opposite. Yeah, I'm working Christmas Eve, but not Boxing Day. Yeah. I, this Christmas Eve I'm off. We're gonna do loads of prep for the Christmas dinner. And then I'm gonna go up to see my mom and dad and do some Christmas e games and stuff with them and have a few, and then walk down to the pub and then hang out with all my flat at the pub where I live in the same village. So then I can literally stumble home. Yeah. Fall into bed, take seven electrolytes before bed. So much water. Yeah. And then hopefully that means if I've not drank until then Yeah. And I look after myself, then I can have a drink on Christmas Day as well. But I don't wanna be in bed too late. The, where I live doesn't, the pubs don't stay anyway. I think usually on Christmas Eve, like we're back at our house by 11. Yeah. Yeah. You've got so much to do the next day. Although the next day is chill for us.'cause we are just going up to my mom's in the morning and then. Then we've got the whole day off to watch school. I just love how we just said, let's crack into it and then we start talking about Christmas. Yes. Now let's crack into it. Yeah. Sorry about that. Okay, so we are gonna go straight in. With bomb number four. Yes. So basically we left off Yes, I knew where we left off. I'll tell you, you tell me. He'd blown up the air. No, he, yeah, he blew up the air. Yeah, I he tried to blow up an airplane. Yeah. So he'd done the university one and then he did one in the canteen of university. And then the third one was the airline in the, a carrier in the aging, the carriage, the place with the luggage. The fucking luggage place. Yeah. Yeah. And then it got to the baggage, something feet. Yes. And then I had told you what his, why he was called the uni bomber. Yes. Which was the university and Airline bomber. Airline bomber, yes. And yeah, he didn't harm anyone. A few people had smoke inhalation, I remember. Yeah. But it was all fine. Which I'm sure he was not happy about, impressed with. No, he does have a lot of tantrums. That's what I felt like, I don't think I probably articulated this for at any point in the last part, but I think it's so funny how many times, and I think I've wrote it in my notes. In little places how many times he has a fucking tantrum. Yeah. Like a tantrum. And writes in his little diary Yep. Saying, I'm not happy. Nobody's dead. He takes his suckling off, mom and dad's teat. He takes his mouth away to then say wow. Where's my food? Where's my food? And actually, it's your fault for not making the bomb right, my friend. Yeah. You shit. Probably. Yeah, I know. Yeah. No idea. It takes a while though. Anyway. Yeah. So it's the 10th of June, 1980 and Percy Wood is a United Airlines executive, and he lives in Lake Forest, Illinois. It's sent to his house which is obviously quite a what he starts to do with the later bombs. He starts to go specifically to people's houses. Yes, he does have a couple of, is he dropping them off at people's houses? I assume. Know. I think he's mailing them. Wow. And that's fine. Yeah. That's terrifying I guess. And they don't go off. That's the thing that I'm like, but I get he, I mean that most of them are set to go off like when they open. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I dunno how the fucking do that though. How'd you make a bomb? Yeah, because the delivery people throwing packages. Can you imagine if fucking every delivered that literally, bro. Fucking tear and ted it at your cat. Yeah. This is what I mean., I guess he doesn't really care, if it makes it to the final destination and then detonates happy days, but if it detonates before the damage is still getting done somewhere. Yeah. He doesn't seem to be too fussed about specifics. I think as well, like later on he like actively, I think it's very soon actually, he actively. Hurt somebody who was like nothing to do with any of this to do with the, and he is not sad. The game plan and the Yeah. The voice he's trying to get across. Yeah. Actually it's just a random so basically this bomb is different than the ones that have come before. So it's a hollowed out book called Ice Brothers by Sloan Wilson, and there's a letter that arrives a few days before the package. Encouraging Percy Wood to read this book and saying that he will greatly benefit from reading this book. Oh. So he is taunting him to open it. It's also it's so well thought out. Yeah. It's like he's basically disguises or like pretends to be, I don't know, someone from the industry or whatever, and says I'm sending this to high profile CEOs who I feel would benefit, okay. From reading this book, blah, blah, blah. And has this whole basically bunch of fucking nonsense. Also, you are working too hard. Yeah. You are working too much. If someone sent me a book, I'd open it regardless. You send me a fucking parcel. I'm opening it. Yeah it's addressed to me. Yeah. You don't need to tempt me into, Ooh. Yeah. The next time you receive a box in the mail, make sure to open it. It'll be really worth it. Time, anything. I'd be like, this is sucks. I wouldn't have thought it was sus before. Yeah. If I, and if it was like a handwritten address as well, like I will get things like that and be like, who the fuck is this? Yeah. And I'll just open it. I immediately think it's my mom, my now. Yeah, because they send me mail like cereal gus and it says in a few weeks time you're gonna receive a Christmas present. Yeah, that's exactly. Make sure to use it. What? I swear to God, I got a box from my mom. I do get it every Christmas. So yeah. Even though I'm Care package, big old fucking 28 years old, she still s to be presents'cause she's a wonderful human. Yes. But like I get it's essentially looks like it's wrapped in a BIM bag and it's a box. And then it has the handwritten address on the top. Yes. And it could be a bomb for sure. Yeah. Literally. But it's not, I've never in my life been like, oh, this package of sauce. To be fair, actually, the other day I got a parcel and someone dropped it off to me like it came to work and then they said, oh, there's a parcel here for you. So I was like, cool. Someone brought into me and it was sat there for ages and then, I said to this other girl yeah, I definitely haven't ordered anything. And I was like, can't wait to open it. Yeah. But, and it was someone else's parcel that my name was on, and luckily it's because they'd ordered something for me and them. Yeah. But I was literally like, bro, I just fully was like that's for me. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. So easy. You don't need to be like, make sure to open your parcel in a few weeks. Yeah. It's just, it's too suss. Like you don't need to work that hard. Yeah. Anyway injuries to his face and leg, but he managed to walk out of his house and get help. He did have to have surgery to remove pieces of the bomb from his leg. God. But this How is his hearing, just out of curiosity?'cause I feel like in that close, yeah. I dunno actually, Vic actually is, you're not even deafening people. I do think that I do think in the later one it does say that the, somebody has a burst ear drum and stuff. Yeah. So if they're not specifying, I'm assuming that their hearing's Okay. But like you think if you're opening that parcel with your hands and it's not even affecting someone's hearing yeah. That is a pretty shit bomb. What are you do? I don't know. I dunno how to build a bomb. Yeah. But like, how do you make a powerful bomb? But I don't know. I've always just assumed it's like not that hard. Yeah. But like also maybe it's in the woods. Is he not just like trial and erroring these bombs and being like, oh, that one would, this is what you would think, isn't it? Like you live very remotely, surely you are not like, so you are obviously just testing them on these people. Yeah, exactly. It's like he's being like, oh, send it in the mail. And then I guess'cause there's no chance of anyone working out with him right now. Also, if you were setting off a bomb every week. People might be like there's a guy over there and he lives in a cabin and he keeps setting off bombs. Yeah, that's so true. And you hear one bomb and you think, oh, okay, maybe he's just doing something weird. Yeah. But you hear multiple and you're like, they're getting stronger. They're actually getting stronger. He just accidentally blows up his own cabin. Shit. Mommy, I need a doctor's appointment. 70 5K. Fucking yeah. God, I do remember bits. Yeah, you I did edit. Yeah, I was gonna say you did edit redundant. That I remember. Yeah, I did not do that one.'cause I'm gonna tackle the Christmas one. Good luck. So yeah, this basically signals to them that the bombs are becoming more and more sophisticated. Yeah. He's put hiding them in hollowed out books and stuff and they are getting stronger. They are doing more damage to people, but they haven't actually killed anybody yet. Not to say that isn't fucking ruining lives. Yeah, of course. And the amount of people in this that lose fingers and stuff as well. Yeah. Especially just terrorizing and terrifying people as well. Yeah. But also they're scientists and like work in the tech industry and stuff. Like actually their hands are their tools. Yeah. Which is anyway, yeah. It's just crazy. There's a lot of evidence in terms of letters and bomb fragment fragments, but they still have no idea who could be doing this. They're not getting any closer to figuring out who's doing it. He's off grid name. He is off fucking grid. Yeah. To be fair, how do you find a mountain man? So they do find fragments from the bomb and basically they have fc etched inside. Yes. I know what this is. Yeah, I know what this is. Are you gonna tell me now what it is? Okay. So it is not spoiler if I say no. You can say it. Free club. Free. Freedom Club. Freedom Club. Freedom Club. Freedom Club. So it's later believed to symbolize Freedom Club. Yeah. Who essentially a classified terror organization who targeted scientists. And those involved in the tech industry. Yes. Yes. So this is his whole thing, isn't it? It is let's be free of all of this bad vibes. Yeah. That's what I'm etching mind. He aligns himself with the organization, but he isn't actually a part of it. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. He's the lone wolf though. He's brother freelancer. Yeah. But but I think he just thinks I closely associate myself with The beliefs thoughts. Yeah. The beliefs of. F that specific organization, but I work alone. And what I'm doing is me, don't think it's them, it's me. Wow. Or I think it's them. But a little bit later he starts being like, we're all together and we are all doing this together.'cause we're a big group and guys just one of us. He's, there's just one, there's loads of us. So don't even try and look for one man. Yeah. He's trying to throw everyone off the scent. But also the Freedom Club, probably no. Yeah. I don't know that man. Then we go to the 8th of October, 1981. So that was the last one. That was 1980. So 8th of October, 1981. Salt Lake City University in Utah. Student finds a large wrapped package just in a hallway. Oh gosh. And then tells staff about it first. This person fucking knows what they're doing. Yeah. Literally not me. I would've opened it. Bitch, just pack in. Yeah. So the campus police are contacted and they are like, that's a fucking bomb. Yeah. So they call the police and a bomb squad is set and it is diffused. So now they have an unexploded bomb. Yeah. So is great. They can see how it's made, they really can see how they can start looking into it. And they look at the components. And inside there is also FC stamped again. Ah, so they know it's the same person. Yes. Cool. But this means he's now branching into new areas because before everything's around Chicago. Yeah. Now that, now we're in Utah. Cool. We are doing Chicago. In tomorrow episodes as well. Episodes episode. I lie. Yeah, the, yeah, I said that. I feel like I said that the beginning of the episode, but I was like, wait, we're in Chicago, Illinois again. Don't remember that. Not for second. I've only just yeah, so that's bomb five. So that one's diffused. Bomb six is the 5th of May, 1982. It is Professor Patrick Fisher at Vanderbilt. University in Tennessee. Yes. Okay. So really going, yeah. Around the place. So it's mailed from Utah, the place where the last bomb Okay. Was found. And a different design from the other. So this is a pipe bomb. And this tells the place that basically he's experimenting. Sorry, I was just thinking, do you remember that weird Harry Potter thing that was on YouTube that was like. What was it called? The thing at the end that's I found the source of the ticking noise. It's a Pike bot. No, I don't think I've seen that. It was this like really weird like puppet. I know what you're talking about. Like the weird an snoop, isn't it? Isn't it the same one that's Wrong? No, wrong. No, and it's like her mind and she's Ron and they just make like really weird versions of it. Yeah. And there's one where everyone just says their name and it's just like this song and it'll be like dumb the door. Dumb theor. Yeah. I dunno why it's just unlocked on memory in my brain, but have to do that in music I, me, I might. Yes. Server. Yeah. Don. Yeah. That was literally a Harry Potter. Harry Potter. Harry Potter, yes. And at the end they go the source of the ding noise. It's a pike bomb. And then it just explodes bit, I don't remember. Yeah, that's so unhinged. That is literally, I have not thought about that in years, but I just unlocked a memory as well. We did it on my uni and this guy who we didn't really talk to very much, like in our flat, also joined in and he'd go, literally we, I dunno why we did it. Yeah. And he just was like so into it and it just really made me laugh.'cause I was like, I've never spoken to you before. Anyway, sorry, sidetrack. Yeah. While the intended victim was Patrick Fisher. Yep. He was actually in Puerto Rico. So the package was actually opened, this is what I meant by his secretary, Janet Smith. Cheeky, she being like, bitch I'll open it. Wonder what he's ordered me for Christmas. Yeah. In May. Yeah, in May. She's ready early. Who was seriously injured on her face and arms. Oh fuck. That's horrible. But she survives. Okay. She'd be livid. Wouldn't you be like, I'm never opening anyone else's policy. Yeah. Literally ever again. Yeah. Literal never. I, you'd I the P ts D from open that's fucking wild. Yeah. Because you'd be so scared every time something came near you. Yeah. I wouldn't wanna open the fucking fridge, do you know what I mean? Yeah. Everything would terrify me after that jump scare. So after this,'cause in ski seemed to have no concern that you'd hurt her. Just that it was frustrating that he couldn't seem to make a lethal bomb. So he wrote in his little fucking diary afterwards, I'm frustrated that I haven't killed anyone. He just didn't seem to care. Yeah. That you've hurt someone else seems innocent. Bystander. Yeah. Like it's not even the person that you deemed to be evil. Yeah. Yeah. You're just going, the plan's gone wrong. But what you are worried about is that it's not fatal enough, not that it's gone for someone else. Which means that there's, there is logic, I say logic hit in his mind. There is logic to who he's sending them to, but actually, as long as the damage is done it doesn't matter. Yeah. Which means everything you stand for is fucking bullshit. Yeah. Because you're not targeting people that specifically affect something that you believe in. Yeah. Like you're just, you are just mad and you wanna kill people you've wrapped it up as this whole eco warrior. Yeah. But you are just angry and you just want to murder people. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Also like the diary and like the FC on the inside and sending them to all these different places. Like it gives the zodiac so much like that whole like to I'm so smart and I'm so clever and coded and do you know what I mean? You'll, you won't work out who I am when I send do you know about his diary? He had a journal. And in the journal it was just like pages and pages of numbers. Yeah. Yeah. And they managed to crack it eventually, but it was journal entries Yeah. Of him talking about his specific crimes. And this is where he's going. Wow. Yeah. I haven't killed anyone. All of this. But yeah, he is exactly like the fucking zone back. Yeah. And he's oh, look at me. I'm so cool and creative and clever and I'm smarter than everyone and you'll never understand why I did this stuff. And it's now we fucking know me. It's'cause you just wanted to hurt people. That's it. Yeah. Fucking intel. Oh, you are literally is a criminal. Yeah. Literally. That is it. Yeah. So that's bomb six and then bomb seven. So we're finally at the end of Yes. We were supposed to end in part one 2nd of July, 1982. Di Genes. Acus. Yeah. Acus Aus. Dije Aus, yeah. Yeah. From the University of California, Berkeley. So where he was a professor Kaczinski Yes. Was a professor. So he was a professor. Oh, yes. And then he left after two years. Is that right? Is that place, yes. That's when he, and then he went off to be a fucking mountain man. Yeah. So he was a professor of electrical engineering and computer science. Okay. He finds the package in the faculty lounge and believed it to be a piece of engineering equipment. It explodes as he lifts it, and it rips the flesh off his hands, down to the bone. Oh my God. Also injuring his face. And then Kazinski once again writes in his diary that he's frustrated and that the travel expenses of doing this are hard on his slender finances. What from your mother? Yeah. Jesus. Oh, sorry. Is it getting really expensive? Trying to kill people? Yeah. My allowance isn't covering this. Yeah. Like honestly, maybe spend it on something different. Yeah. So then I wrote after this, his campaign of terror stops abruptly. And that's that. And basically now we head on into all the other nonsense. So yeah, so we were, that was bomb seven and basically that was in 1982. Around this sort of time where the campaign stops his neighbor reports hearing an explosion in the land surrounding'cause since he's cabin he's trying now. He's testing now. Yeah. I don't think he talks about hearing loads of explosions, but he's definitely tried one or two so crazy that the only reason why then he's trying to set off explosions and test them at home now is just because, oh, woe is me. It was too spinny to send ones that weren't gonna kill people instead of him being like right off the get go instead of just sending bombs that aren't gonna just being like, actually it's all completely selfish. The reasoning why he stops to make one, because A, he wants to make one that's actually gonna hurt someone. And he just, all he wants to do is fucking kill someone. Yeah. And b, it's because it was too expensive for him. Yeah. It's so self-absorbed. Every thought he has is just yeah, it's so me. And like he I don't even think that there's any real concern for any sort of human life. Also a bomb. Setting off a bomb. Like in a faculty room or Yeah. Or in a house. You have no idea how many people you're gonna kill doing that. Yeah. You have no, no care for human life whatsoever. No. And the fact that, yeah, if you are sending it out for delivery as well, it is not like you're making sure it's in the right place at the right time. When it goes off. You are saying, I don't care who's there. Yeah. I don't care if it goes off in the van. I don't care if it knocks the whole street out there. I don't care if it kills a child. I don't care any of, yeah. I don't care who, I just want somebody to die. Yeah. The wrong person doesn't matter. Yeah. However many people, doesn't matter. I'm actually just annoyed that it didn't do more damage. So around this time, Kaczinski is writing that basically he'd begun to feel hopeless as everything he had done up to this point had failed to bring damage system. No. Do something good. Then also it's not gonna Yeah. I'm sorry. Like I understand the fear. At the creating fear and trying to make people adhere to your demands, but it's not gonna, that's not gonna work. You can't stop the world. Yeah. You could use your intelligence to do good things to help morph technology into a. Doing better. Yeah. And I dunno if I said it in part one, but like when I read, I I won't read out his manifesto because obviously it's 35,000 miles. It's fucking ridiculous. But like when I talk about his manifesto, like I don't disagree with some of the things that he is writing about. And I think the world is dangerous. Technology is dangerous. Everything. We are monitored every minute of the day. Like I get it and it's developing so beyond belief. Yeah. That I get it. But you could use that intelligence of you being able to write that kind of stuff. You could use it for good. Yeah. Instead of just being like, oh me, the world is bad. What I must do is I must destroy. And how dare You're just as bad as technology there. Yeah. How dare you write about, human freedoms and the lack thereof and that being stripped away and then. Strip away people's one choice of, what they put their faith in, but also their life. Yeah, exactly. It's such hypocrisy, like it's absolutely insane. You have to let people decide that on their own. Educate people if you, if instead of taking lives away from people Yeah. Educate people. If he had spent his career and used his big old brain trying to pass law or, educate people around him, I have an update. My mom's IQ was over 130. Wow. Yeah. Oh, let me look at the thing. His was a hundred and his was like 130. That makes your mother moderately gifted? Yes. Yes. Wow, that's so impressive. Yeah, she was like, oh, it was 130 something or 38 or something like that. And I was like, what the flip Jane? That's how moderate. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And then I said, do you know El has a high iq? The uni bomber? The uni? Do you know, I'll skip a grade. The uni bomber. She was like, okay, she'll be okay.'cause he skipped two. Yeah, maybe that's where it gets really weird. But he can't crochet. Like she can see Jane brings wonderful things into the world. Exactly. Takes things out like me. Yeah. With my amazingly high iq. She's passed it on. So I'm gonna move on from that. So basically in 1985 he reappears and ramps up the bombings. And this time he, as always, he's got no discerning pattern, law enforcement can't follow out or figure out where he might go next. There's no rhyme or reason to it, really. So Bomb eight is on the 15th of May, 1985. He loves May. Yeah. He fucking does. Doesn't he mean she's extra angry in the summer? Yeah. Literally like the flowers have come out to play and you are just in a fucking shit mood. Yeah. So it's John Hauser at the University of California. Berkeley. Yes. Okay. Again, so again in Berkeley. So the last one was what? 1982. Hatred for that place. Oh no, it gets worse. Okay. He sees the three ring binder in the computer lab when he opens the box explodes. Oh my God. So it's not even a package or anythings. It's a binder. So someone's put that in there. He's placed it. Fuck me. Yeah. So he lost four fingers on his right hand and took a chunk out of his arm. He also experienced partial loss of vision in his left eye. Fucking hell. Diogenes. Angelis, yeah. Was actually across the hall when this happens. Oh no. And runs to John Houser's aid and actually creates a tourniquet out of houses'. God tied to stop the bleeder. That is amazing. So this fucking man has been through this twice. Yeah. I'd be like, Nope. I'm having PTSD once as the victim and then has to get someone else through it. Oh my God. That is amazing though. Absolutely. Like absolute fucking hero of the story. It's so insane. And John Hauser at the time is wearing a ring. When the bomb exploded, it blew his fingers off. And the ring with such force that there is an imprint of the ring in the wall. Fucking girl. Yeah. One time at a festival. These fucking losers in the camp next to us, they threw a mallet. Oh my God. So yeah. So everyone was like throwing bottles of piss and stuff like that. Yeah. As they do. Yeah. And obviously not us. We were just like getting ready and being like, Ugh, stop throwing piss ass. Yeah. And this kid threw a mallet and he threw it so hard that it hit my friend in the head and bounced off her into my other friend's leg and left a bruise on her leg because of how hard it hit her. Oh my God. Wow. Who fucking throws a mouth? You could literally kill someone. I know. I literally went over and I literally was so angry and I pulled the legs from his chair. Good. Oh. And then just so fucking pummeling it. Yeah. We were fuming mate. We were literally, we had to obviously take my friends to the medical tent and stuff, but yeah. My friend in the morning, she had a massive bruise and I was like, that already hit someone before it hit you. Yeah. That's like when that mag lock fell on me and it like hit, it like fell just past my head. Yeah. It hit my arm and even though it took all the force outta my arm, it hit my foot and it broke my toe. Yeah. So wild. And that's that's crazy that it's like. Flinging off and it's denting something else. Oh my God. Dangerous times. Yeah. It's so crazy. I didn't write this in here, but I think I, when I was watching the Unibomber documentary on Netflix, I think in this, in his little coded diary, he did actually express some guilt about this victim. What? But I don't know why. And then even eventually he basically rescinded that guilt and he was like, nah, he got what was coming to him. Oh God. Yeah. A piece of shit. Anyway, we already knew that. What being born. Yeah, I guess so. Think it was something like he'd been in the Army or the Navy or something. Yeah. So he'd express some guilt about hurting a veteran, but I'm not entirely sure. Oh God. So then we go to bomb nine. Didn't fucking stop you though, did it, mate? No. Can't feel that bad. Not that guilty, are you? Yeah. Yeah. So it's the 13th of June, 1985. A package is sent to Boeing Fabrication Division in Washington, which is obviously the airplane. Yes. It goes to the mail room and is partially opened when they see the bomb. Oh my God. Which is fucking terrifying. Imagine working the mail room seeing that. Yeah. It is safely diffused but most of the forensic evidence is lost. And I think it's because when they diffused it, they had to acknowledge it. Yeah. And they had to also like. Everyone up close and personal and stuff with it, aren't they? But to be honest, I don't think the bombs are helping get any information about the Unibomber anyway. Yeah. I don't think that's doing any of what we need. Yeah. It's not like it's using a specific material that you can only get in the cabin, in the woods. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Or from Illinois specifically. Also, as I said in part one, he's like stealing shit from people's cars and stuff. Yeah. Like surrounding the house. Yeah. Like it's not his stuff. He's not buying it. No. You're not chasing him that way. Yeah, because no one really knows any where he is or anything. He's just like getting some money sent to him. Yeah. And like doing his own thing, go under the radar. And I think he's really, he's so smart that like chemicals and stuff that he needs, he knows how to get them without buying them specifically. Yeah. Because you'd just be like, who the fuck is buying this? Like lithium framework or to them lithium. Yeah. I think that explodes. Yeah. This TNT, but I don't actually think at this point he is. U like using chemical compounds. And I think that is why his bombs are not fatal right now. Yes. Because he has to steal parts and Yeah. He can't go in and find, he's basically creating pipe bombs and they're not powerful enough. Yeah. And I guess if he's refusing to buy things, then he has to go out of his way to find things that aren't easy to accumulate. And he doesn't wanna be tracked, traced then. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot more to think about than him just saying, oh, I'll just go out and buy the thing that I know is gonna do the most damage. Yeah. Yeah. But he's obviously very smart.'cause like when he made that ome Yes. In the first one, it was like, that is actually fucking, how do you make that? I saw somebody say that in, I think maybe the documentary or one of the articles I read that he made it from a barometer. Like it wasn't something he bought. Yeah. He just fashioned a barometer into something that could understand altitude. Yeah. And then obviously knows at what point would be. More. More than likely fatal for a bomb to go off. Yeah. So set it to 34,000 feet or whatever it was. Yeah. And that is crazy. And like also just to be sat tinkering with something that you could, it could explode. Yeah, exactly. He just like gets on buses and stuff with them as well, but he's obviously got so much faith in himself and his own ability. Yeah. That's narcissism, isn't it? That it's not gonna go. Yeah. This is a complex for you. He's, yeah. He's just being like, I'm so smart that what I've done won't hurt me. It will just hurt the, which is why he throws such a tantrum when it doesn't kill people. Oh yeah. Because he's what's wrong with the bomb? It can't be me. It's the bomb. What happened? What went wrong? I don't get things wrong. Yeah, exactly. So how can the bomb not be killing anybody? Yeah. But to sit and make a bomb and not worry that it's gonna go off is like the, it's just you being like. What could I possibly do? Yeah. I'm so smart that I know how to do this properly. Yeah. This man's got too much time in his hands. He does, he really does he also talks about like loving his time and nature and the solitude of all and it's just do that then. Yeah. Just fuck off, go forage. Yeah. Some mushrooms and some foam berries. Go and get a cabin somewhere. Even you like, you could have gone somewhere far remoter than you are. Yeah. Do that. Get some farm animals. Live off the fat of the land. Yeah. Just stop. Yeah. You could have been a cool like mountain story. Yeah. Rather than just a fucking dweeb. That is bomb nine. So again, is diffused. So now we go to 10 it's the 5th of November, 1985. And we're at the University of Michigan. And the target of this one is a psychology professor. So it's a psychology professor and his assistant that are injured when they open a package that had a three ring binder that had a bomb in it. There is a letter with it asking the professor to review a student master's thesis. Yes. Again, stop doing so much. Yes. Stop it so it's basically can you read it? Blah, blah, blah, blah. And then it's yeah, sure. I'll read it. Yeah. I would've read it. Anyway. So Nicholas Sino, the assistant, was actually quite badly injured because he is the one that opens it. Yes. And Professor mcConnell, is near in the same room, but not that near. So he actually just suffers from temporary hearing loss, which is what I was saying there. Oh, okay. Yeah. However, the fact that he has targeted a psychology professor is like a new development. Yeah. But the rest the rest had been like engineers or high up in the tech industry or people that were like he deemed as fing technology. Yeah. Or the destruction of the environment. This guy's gone so much. So why a psychiatrist? Yeah. I'll tell you why. Is it the one he went to when he was debating being trans? Yes, it is. So this is the psychiatrist he had visited when he'd wanted to have a sex change. But changed his mind at the last minute. And in his little weird diary, he had said, basically after his appointment with this person, he'd just been so angry. So angry. And he just wanted to kill someone. And then he'd said, why don't I kill the psychiatrist? But he'd not decided, he decided that years before he ever acted on it. So he wrote that in his diary long before he sent that bomb. And so this is where you start to be like, okay, no, you are just a weak little man. You, you keep covering this up with your agenda. Yeah. But you. There was no reason for you to kill this psychiatrist? No, there wasn't. And I guess if you are waiting years and years to do it, it's so that it wouldn't be linked to you again, traced back to you because it would be like, oh, he's had hundreds of clients. Between now and then. And why would you link it back to this random one appointment that happened four years ago or whatever. But also it is this person is there to test whether this is something you want or what's happening in your mind. And, that's all they did. Like an appointment you booked, by the way. Yeah. Don't be fucking, just, and the fact that it's oh, I just thought need to kill someone. And that's'cause you don't really know a lot of people, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. No one talk to you for long enough. You don't really, you can't really decide. Yeah. You can't kill your neighbors.'cause it'll be obvious that it was you. So you're going for like a person that you met. Yeah. Back in the day. Yeah. Fuck sake. I know psychologist on the documentary basically is talking about this and the fact that he. I think maybe I talked that in the last one, but like she's saying, he did not have gender dysphoria. Like he absolutely didn't. Yeah. He didn't know how to speak to women. Obviously we were talking about how if someone thinks that they are the most smartest person in the room and they don't understand women. Yeah. And you said maybe he was a virgin, he didn't understand women what better way to understand them than to become one? Yes. Because you can't accept help from anyone else. Like you don't think anyone can teach you anything. Because you think you're the smartest person in the room. Yeah. So it is literally the argument. Auntie obviously was like, I don't understand women'cause they're not taking any interest in me. Yeah. So like me, so maybe I just become one. Yeah. And then I'll understand it because I'm so smart. So why can't I work this out? Yeah. I'll just embody it. And also in his twisted way of being like maybe that's why women don't. Aren't attracted to me because I am actually a woman. Yeah. And they know that about me. Yeah. Because obviously that's fucking ridiculous because lesbians exist. Yeah. And bi people exist. That's ridiculous. However, I just feel like that is the way his brain, that's his brain works, operate. Yeah. It's when you are like, you reject a man and he's she must be gay. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, no, you're just gross. Yeah. So that must be it. Yeah. She must be gay. It's the only possible option. Yeah. So this, yeah. He tries to kill the psychiatrist, and this is where you start to be like you're just falling apart the seams here. Whatever your little manifesto is. And it feels like you've almost curated this whole fucking thing. Yeah. To kill the psychiatrist. Yeah. Yeah. And it's what did they say to you? Yeah. Did they say, I don't think that this is what you want. And I'm trying to help you. He never talked about it. He talked about other things. So he never had the conversation about gender dysphoria? Yeah. Or any of that. Do you know? Maybe the psychiatrist just got the measure of him in that room. Yeah. And it really fucked him off. You're a narcissist. Yeah. And actually, until you really come to terms with the fact that you think you're better than everybody else. Yeah. And that's why you lack having relationships with other people. Yeah. Yeah. You'll never improve as a person. Yeah. You're a narcissist. You're self like, you're completely self-absorbed, but also you are a conspiracy theorist. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And until you start accepting the fact that people can help you you'll never get better. Yeah. And he was probably like. What the fuck did you just say to me? What did you just fucking say to me? Yeah. And because he's I'm so smart, I can't kill him straight away. Yeah. Because obviously if he walked out of the appointment and then blew him up, that's, it's gonna be very obvious. But he was so smart to not because Yeah. Actually this, because it is so weird and it's so abnormal. If he hadn't waited as long as he did Yeah. He actually might have been caught through the psychiatrist. Yeah.'cause that's fucking strange. Yeah. It really is. Especially if there was like more recent notes or something really peculiar. Yeah. He said in or something. Not even peculiar, but like something to note that the psychiatrist thought, oh, that felt like I really rubbed them up the wrong way and I have to be quite careful. Or he just told his psychiatrist his secretary about him or anything. Yeah, they, it was so smart. Him waiting that long and then just randomly going for a psychiatrist and then randomly just going back to what he's doing. It's, there's so many clients that it's even if you could link it to a client but he's a thought of all of that. Yeah. Because he is look at how, yeah. I never know that he is me. Yeah. And don't get me wrong, only met him. He fucking smart, but Yeah. Still fuck off. And obviously not it's smart enough to overcome human emotions like he thinks he can. Yeah. Of, of anger. Yeah. Like this is a vendetta. You also, you might be academically very intelligent, but socially Yeah. And it ain't academic's, not everything Exactly. You want no friends, you're fucking dwe. Nobody likes you. But yeah, this is, this is why you can't interact with people.'cause whatever that guy said to you in that room, you've clearly not let it go. You have not let it go. You have been holding onto that. I, every night he's just fucking, you think I'm a fucking narcissist? Do you, I'm gonna fucking get you. I'm gonna fucking get you wondered just like throwing darts at this guy's face or something, in the burn book when she just like goes in there. She's like, just that every night. And he's just I'm so fucking pit. Oh, that's white chicks. That's not even the same film. That's film. But literally that, yeah. Like him just, he just, clearly this guy must have just got the picture of him. Yeah. And he must have fucking hated that. Yeah. And been like, do you think you're smart? Do you? Yeah. I'll show you. Smart. Yeah. I'll blow your fingers off. Absolute fucking loser. Yeah. Anyway, so he doesn't get the psychiatrist, but he does try. So now we're onto the 11th of December, 19 85, 38-year-old Hugh Scruton spots a paper bag left near a dumpster in a parking lot of his Sacramento computer store. He had actually been a student at Berkeley when Kaczinski had taught there. And in hindsight, it has believed that he had probably been a personal target on Kaczynski's list. Yeah. So Cruin picks up the bag and it detonates this bomb is a 10 inch pipe bomb containing metal nails and splinters as shrapnel. Oh my God. The bomb kills Hugh Ston. Fuck yeah. Ted wrote, Ugh, this is fucking wild. This was a humane way to eliminate somebody humane. He said he wouldn't have known what hit him. He would've just died instantly. And it's babe, before this one, your bomb couldn't kill anyone. Yeah. So how the fuck do you know that also, no one deserves to die like that. No. You don't have the right to say, oh, this is actually quite humane. I'll tell you what's humane. Letting someone live their life and dying. Natural. Yeah. Dying of old age. Yeah. In a bed. But you don't warrant the right to decide when someone dies. That is inhumane. You've murder also metal nails and splinters. A shrapnel. Yeah. And him saying, oh, it killed him instantly. You don't know that was gonna happen. That might not have killed him instantly. He might have been lying there for a very long time. Yeah. You cannot possibly fucking know that. And it is actually fucking wild of you to say that as if you've done someone a favor. Yeah. Honestly, he really is at least he wasn't in pain. You don't fucking know that. Yeah, you do not know that. He literally sounds like he's just oh, crack. Honestly it sounds like he's smoked a load of meth and he literally is yeah, like that guy that comes to our work sometimes that's, it's I'm the devil. I'm ar I am everything. I see everything. I hear everything. And it's no, you're just on crack. No. You're taking too many drugs. Yeah. But it's that's what he thinks he is. He thinks that he's like in control of how the system works. Yeah. He thinks he is. Technology. Yeah. Yeah. It's fucking wild, isn't it? And Yeah. It's just, oh, it feels so gloat as well. Yeah. Like it's such a humane way to eliminate somebody. Oh, fuck off. Yeah. And also, if it hadn't, if it had taken him hours and hours and hours to die, you would've loved that as well. Yeah. So don't fucking act like you've done. Also, again, you are trying to hide this personal vendetta. It is not. It is not a coincidence that you taught this night. I bet he just sweat said one fucking snarky comment. Yeah. He said, oh, Kaczinski, why are you fucking trousers so high? You look like SpongeBob. You smell like you live in a cabin. Yeah. Probably said Yeah. Or cause you a fucking nerd. Or ord you corrected you or POed you in front of the class. Yeah. And you didn't let it go. Yeah. Because he owned a computer store. Yeah. Like you are not, what are you doing? No. Yeah. You're not like, that's in the grand scheme of things. What's this Giza doing? Nothing. It is personal because otherwise you'd have to, you'd have to explode. You'd have to designate a bomb in every single computer shop if you thought it was gonna make a difference. Yeah. And it doesn't seem like it's a coincidence that it's somebody you used to teach. Yeah. That you used to teach. And I actually think if you were. Whatever. If you did, if it was purely about the ethics of the thing, I think that you would not, you would've actively chose it. You would associate yourself with, to go with people who may have pissed you off in the past. Yeah. You would do it completely at random. You would go to a random computer store. There is no way that you didn't know, because if you are claiming you're so smart. There's no way that you didn't know that it was that guy's computer store. Yeah. There's no way you act like you do all your research, blah, blah, blah. I actually didn't look up if Ted Gaz, Zinski's dead. I think he is. But I hope he's dead'cause he can mail bomb. Yeah, I don't think they'll be letting me, I dunno about that. He seems quite clever. Anyway, so in December of 1985, a letter is sent to the San Francisco examiner claiming responsibility for the bombings and laying out his aims. However, he does this under the guise of the Freedom Club and proclaims that they are an organization, not an individual. So that's when he starts being like, go look for one man. Yeah. Okay. We've just, we're just a bunch of buddies and we're causing some ruckus. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. It is not just me on my own. Whatever you don't think it's one person. Yeah. Which is interesting because I actually do have friends. Yeah. And they do want, do the things that I enjoy with the, this is the difference though, I guess with the. Like people like the Zodiac who's it's all about me. And never catch me. It's me. Yeah. Whereas he's, I guess maybe this is just him being like, I watch how easy it's to throw them off the sun. He's self-righteous and he wants to be part of something bigger. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. He thinks that he has a bigger purpose and that he is part of something bigger and Yeah. It is. That is why he's doing it. Yeah. That's why he's not taking sole responsibility and it's all a facade. It's an act. Yeah. Because he is like self-righteous. He does have a course, anyone that has, he's an absolute narcissist. Anyone that has a 35,000 word fucking manifesto it's like literally being like. And this is what I think, and this is what I, it's no one asked. And I know we're not fucking therapists and or psychiatrists and I know that we can't diagnose people, but I just did yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Agreed. So disagree. Yeah. I dare you. I like that. It's a threat. So we're now going to the 20th of February, 1987. Another bomb is left in a parking lot of Salt Lake City computer store and severely injures the son Gary, of the store's owner. Okay. So it cut through his face, shrapnel embedded in his leg, and cut through his hands and arms. Molten metal had cut through his skin and because of this, they said they think that this is the only reason he survived because it actually ized as it had cut through his skin. So he hadn't died from blood loss. Jesus. How fucked is that? Because of the, basically the explosion it was so hard. Was so mega. Yeah. That it technically saved the life. Like how can you say that? That's a humane way to end someone's life because he wanted that to be, it's the same kind bomb. You've already set off a killer bomb. It's the same kind of bomb. It's the same bomb. It's in the same car park of a computer store. It's exactly the same. Yeah. How the fuck can you say that? That was you being humane? And also if you care about humane, your margin of error is so massive. Right Now. You've set off, what did I say? You've set off 12 bombs. Yeah. And you killed one person and then, but you've injured everybody else. Yeah. And then you say it's a humane way to go. Yeah. Even though some people have lost hands and psyched. Fucking horrible. And now this person's had hundreds of injuries yeah, so bad. A store employee sees a man leave a package near the wheel of her car. She thinks it's odd, but then gets busy and just carries on until the explosion and that witness account helped create the famous composite sketch of the uni bomber. Yes, I know that. Yeah, she sees him putting it glasses, wheel car. The glasses with the glasses, yeah. And the hood up. Yeah, that one. Yeah. Which I don't think particularly as a helpful scare. Sorry, I'm trying to make him look like he's I don't know, like in a basketball ad. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? It's like any hooded teen, yeah. A youth, so now we're at BOMB 13. It's 22nd of June, 1993. So actually we now have not had a bomb for. Six years. Yeah. Yeah. Is that right? I was gonna say six. Yeah. So yeah, it's six years. Cool. A geneticist at the University of California, Dr. Charles Epstein. Ooh. Bad name. That's bad name. I guess it was before it was bad. Charles is pretty rough. Charles went great. Is injured after opening a package that exploded in his kitchen and basically he lost his eardrums. Oh my god. And fingers. Oh my God. And had abdominal trauma, but survived the bomb. I don't know why I put he lost his eardrums. I dunno what that means. Really Just flew out. You dunno why I wrote that? They just flew out and he couldn't find them. I guess they probably burst, I dunno if they burst permanently. And I don't dunno if he found them. I don't think they can just come out. I don't think they just come out. I don't know why I wrote it like that, but I did. He lost his hearing. Yeah, that's probably what I meant to write. But I am not certain of that. So I'm just picturing a hearing aid. Yeah. Just that's what I'm picturing. Just flying out. It's just flying out. But yeah, that's horrible. So then. That's horrible. We expect nothing less of you. The 24th of June, 19 93, 2 days later a prominent computer si scientist David Lerner from Yale University, lost several fingers to a male bomb. He says he had to drag himself to a nearby university hospital to get help. Freaking hell. Lerner had actually invented an innovative Programming language called Linda, named after a really famous porn star, apparently. Oh, why? No idea. Didn't wanna ask any more questions. So yeah. Yeah. David's brother Joel is actually threatened with a terror attack the same day his brother is attacked. Interesting. Oh, wow. Who is also part of the tech industry, but didn't care enough to, oh my God. Find out what he does. So he's literally. Been silent for six years and then he is just popping off left right, and center. So he is obviously sending two bombs in short succession and doing a bomb frack. And he also Kaczinski writes a letter to Earth First urging them to publish the names Yes. Of Eko criminals. Yes. I know about this as well. Yeah. So Earth First was a publication that, as you can imagine, wanted to put Earth first and was very much like there are people that are destroying this planet. Yeah, they are. And then, yeah.'Cause Iki writes a letter to them saying, put their fucking names and their addresses in there. Okay. Because basically he wants to use that as a hit list. Yeah. So that is bomb 14 yeah. So now we go to bomb 15. It's the 10th of December 19th. It's an ultimate bomb. An ultimate bomb. I'm not sure if you'll know, but I fucked the supplement. I'm, we'll say how much I cut. Yeah. So it's the 10th of December, 1994. Thomas Mossa, 50-year-old senior PR executive for Exxon Oil Company. Yes. Lives in New Jersey and receives a package bomb at his home. Yes. He opens it, he's killed instantly. Also, they say, but you've always said that. So they say, and that's where the conspiracy theorist, so I found, oh, I found a Project Unibo document, which is the name of the investigation and the task force. Okay. I don't write a lot about the task force, to be honest. Oh, in this, they can't find him. Yeah, they don't find him. It's, he spoiler out. He gets fucking ratted out. Yeah. Yeah, they do a lot and they try their absolute best, but there's no rhyme or reason to what he does. He's a recluse. Like he's very good at it. They cannot figure out for the life of he's doing it. No, I think he just gets too cocky and just starts being like, here's another bit of waffle. Waffle. But yeah, what he gets caught for is how much he fucking waffles. Yeah. Whereas like the police are just completely lost. Really? Yeah. So in a Project Unibo document it states that Thomas Moss's wife and daughters were in the house when the bomb went off. Oh my God. It also said that by stroke of luck. His daughters and the wife had been in the same room as him as he opened the package, but one of the daughters had ran out and the other two had followed. Oh my God. And if that didn't happen, I didn't see that confirmed.'cause I saw another source that said he was in the kitchen when he opened it with his wife and his daughter in the room. Okay. But basically this one document, the, basically they were very close to being, they were very close. And it said if they hadn't been in another room, they would've been killed to Jesus Christ. So in 1995 is when he writes his famous manifesto. He sends another letter to the New York Times saying that he will cease his terrorist activities if they publish his manuscript. Yes. And and then he claims to be a part of the Freedom Club. Freedom Club, and he also les the FBI says, they're shit, can't find me, Hannah giving you a little bit of a dress down here. The manifesto is called Industrial Society and Its Future, and basically it argues that modern technology and industrial systems are eroding human f freedom. Yeah. And like your wellbeing. Yeah. The author claims that large scale organizations technology dependence and surveillance basically limit autonomy and create widespread social and environmental problems. Yeah. Which, yeah. Is not wrong. Oh no. Is absolutely right. Yeah. It's so true. And if the world in the state of the world as it is anything to go by, what he's warned about has come to fruition. Yeah. Or is coming to fruition. And I know like points of what he like, that kind of general stuff. I've read bits of it and stuff, but obviously I haven't read the whole thing'cause 35,000 words like Jesus Christ, but it is such a shame Yeah. That someone with this talent who sees the world from that perspective. Yeah. Didn't use, there's the argument of MK Ultra literally fucking his head right. Way back when. But like then also that someone's so adamant that it didn't affect it in any way. It's oh, so you were always gonna turn up to, but that's what NK Ultra would make you say. Yeah. And like you are saying that you were always gonna be a piece of shit then. Yeah. Like you, you have this intelligence, which means that you should have an understanding of what is acceptable or not. Also, I think there is two path, I think that, I dunno when he decided, but what he's saying in the first part of that essay it's fair. It's fair. It's fair. It makes sense when he's speculating on the world. Yeah. He is spot on. Yeah. But then his idea of how he thinks he will resolve it. Yeah. The his solutions to, basically what he then says is reform is impossible. It's ineffective. Then shut the fuck up. Technology will inevitably expand. Yeah. And so what is the point in what, like, all of it, it's yeah, I get what you're saying, but what are you gonna do about it? Yeah. Oh, we can't do anything about it. And you're just blowing up people for no reason. Yeah. Okay. Thanks mate. Thanks for wasting my time. And essentially says we need to reject technology as a whole and just be done and return to a smaller, less complex, like more community driven way of life. And it's no. Yeah, people are, they're not gonna do that. You can't dangle the fruit. What's it called? Dangle the carrot. Dangle the carrot. Can't dangle the carrot. There's no turning back. Yeah. Like you just, you can't do it. It's not gonna happen. If you also spent your life he clearly thinks that there's like a bigger thing going on here than his life, which is why he's saying I'm part of a freedom club. Like I, he's saying it's a bigger picture. It's not just me. Which is interesting because he is also a massive narcissist. Yeah. And he seems to think maybe he thinks that like I'm one of the people that can see what the truth is. And that's where the narcissism comes in. But like on the grand scheme of things, he's aware that he's not everything. But I feel like for you to. Say that there's a bigger picture and say that nothing can be done about it. It is like you are arguing that everything you've done has been pointless. It's also not realistic. Yeah. If you're not gonna make a single change, but what he could have done is spent his whole life educating and helping people understand and educating people into making better decisions or creating those communities. Yeah. There, there will be people who outright agree with you and Yeah. Okay. I totally agree. Like we're doing. Incomprehensible damage to our planet. And, capitalism is bad and it, living under capitalism basically is a complete flawed system where it requires people to be treated like shit at the bottom wrong. Also, invasion of privacy. Like technology is absolutely like taking over everything. Absolutely. Except it is not feasible progress. It's, this is the craziest fucking thing I've ever said. Progress is inevitable. Yeah. Like it, unfortunately there is vague intelligence in humanity and that means it doesn't matter. You can't you can't stop progress. Yeah. All you can do is try to be a positive influence within it. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. And yeah. Trying to use your intelligence to educate people, to move people along. Different paths to slow that progress. Yeah. Or to just change that progress slightly. Yeah. To do things for better. Yeah. For positive change reform is the only answer. Ugh. Ugh. Oh my God. But not reform, you can not reform, actual reform within like government change alterations Yeah. Different voices like his, that would've been really important Yeah. Into law. Like that. Coming into law making because although what we have now is a lack of that Yeah. Like a huge lack of it across the world, not just in certain countries and. No one is putting these things at the forefront. Actually what's happening is everyone is being pitched against each other and it's constantly look over there, they're the problem. Look over there. But what? But this excuse is coming in and being like, and everyone should just live like me, but because I hate people. Yeah. And I'm more smart than everyone. I'm gonna slump off and become a recluse in the woods. And then I'm just gonna kill some people. Yes. What? What good have you done? Yes. I cannot for the life of me understand how we thought we were gonna do this drunk. Honestly, soon as you this fucking insane, as soon as you started speaking the first one, I was like, oh damn, this was not a good one. There was one sentence you say and you say it, and I say, what does that sentence mean? And I know what it means, I just have to pay attention to you. But I literally was just like staring at the sound waves on the screen and then you say something really smart. And I was immediately like, huh, the fuck. Anyway? Is she saying Let's go. Let's stop rant. Anyway, your point. Stop your waffle. Yeah. Because yes, I might see where you're heading. Yeah. And then you do what you do and I'm like, no, I didn't see where that was heading at all. Yeah. I don't agree anymore. Yeah. I don't agree with your methods. So now we go to the 16th and final bomb. So this is a mailed bomb and it kills the president of the California Forest Association in his Sacramento office. It is April the 24th, 1995. And the victim is Gilbert Murray. The bomb wasn't even addressed to him. It was actually meant for his predecessor william Denison. But it found and was redirected to the new head Yeah. Of the Forest Association and therefore killed him. So then the only other thing that happens is there is a bomb threat on the 28th of May, 1995 to LAX. When the newsroom gets a letter from the Unabomber, so his manifesto is published, so Yes. They basically, at this point, I, yeah, I talk about it a little bit later because they're like I'll go into it, because it basically feeds into this series of events that then leads to his capture. Yes. David, his brother. Yeah. His wife, she fucking hates Ted. Yes, Ted, she fucking hates really Ted her, didn't he? Yeah. And they, no, that's a spoiler. Shut up. I'll just say Ted's wife is reading a description of the Unabomber that is published talking about his interest Yeah. And his beliefs, and she recognizes these traits as something that she has heard about Ted. Yeah. She goes to David, but he obviously does not want to believe that could be his brother. So just brushes off. Yeah. At this point, the two brothers, their relationship is really difficult. They're not actually Ted's not on speaking terms with his family at all at this point. Okay. He's cut them off. And basically the reason he's not really on speaking terms is that Ted hates his sister-in-law despite the fact that he's never actually met her. Yeah. Yeah. Because he's just Yeah. Women hating and he keeps saying that he's gonna go to their house and meet her and he basically is, makes horrible remarks about her pulling his brother down to, into a mundane middle class life. Okay. And a middle, mundane, middle class mindset. Oh, how dare someone try to live. Yeah. To just make the best of this fucking shitty old world. How dare someone just try to be happy? Yeah. So yeah. He, they're not on speaking terms. And he, it also actually attempts to talk David out of marrying her at all. Okay. Even though he doesn't know her. Yeah. It's really interesting. So obviously I can see why she hates him and she really does. And it's so interesting because aside from his mom, this is the only female relationship he would have with someone that's yeah. I don't think he's ever even spoken to her. Yeah. And like he's turned it down because he's already, which tells you everything you need to know about how he feels about women. Yeah. Which is literally our argument of that's why he went into that meeting to discuss Oh, no transitioning. We're about to even get more proof of it as well, because while they're talking about all of this his brother starts to recount a story about Kaczinski. Okay. So his brother, I think runs his dad's business now. Okay. The sausage making business or whatever. And they have a factory. So he is like a supervisor and manager there. His Ted worked loads of different odd jobs just to gain a bit of cash every now and then. And at one point, for a year, decided to go and work for his brother in the family business. Okay. So he goes he goes there and his brother is his super supervisor. He becomes, but he didn't fucking like that infatuated with a woman that works at this factory. And he asks her out, she and his brother describes it this way, had politely turned him down and said, but we could, we can be friends. The nicest way you possibly get, don't even have to be nice by the way. You don't owe it to them. No. You really fucking don't. But you'd be like, that's wildly inappropriate. Yeah. I work with you. Who the fuck are you? But the fact that she's been like, oh, let's just stay friends and she's let's be mates. Even though certain he's fucking weird. And he probably stinks that he didn't like that at all. If he wasn't specifically targeting men throughout all of his bombs, one of them probably would've gone to her. Oh yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure he would've got there eventually once he actually started killing. Yeah. Yeah. I just feel like he would've gone, if he wasn't caught, he would've gone off the rails and just started going for fucking whomever. Yeah. I just feel like maybe in his mind, targeting women is just not even worth his time anyway. Do you know what I mean? Like he just thinks so little that it's yeah, they're not even, they can be the collateral damage. Sure. Yeah. And I wouldn't be surprised if he felt that they had no value in contributing to progress. Yeah, exactly. Just being like only men. Yeah. That have contributed. That's where the real power is. Yeah. Even if you're contributing in something I don't believe in. Yeah. It's still a man's world. So Ted was obviously. Very angry about this and completely rational. And proceeded to just start posting horrible notes about her around the company. Quite literally writing notes and sticking them to walls. Oh my god. Baby. And doors. And then he also so yeah, this happens and he's writing the notes and then this basically leads to him being fired by his own brother. Yeah.'cause he's you can't fucking do that. That's wild. Why would you do that? And then, and his brother is talking about at one point and he says to Ted like, why would you do this? Yeah. And his brother and Ted says you have no idea what she's done to me. Mocked you off, Nate. That's all it is. Yeah. Pathetic, honestly. Writing notes. S stomping around saying, you have no idea what she's done to me. When all she said was, no, thank you. Yeah. It's like when people say oh, can I ask a favor? And you say, no, sorry, I can't do that. And then people get annoyed at you and it's oh, sorry. So were you demanding something from me then? Yeah. I'm gonna start doing that work. Every time I say, Amy, you do this to me, and you say, no, I'm gonna stop putting notes around and say, Amy's a bitch saying, can you do me a massive favor of me saying, oh, what is it? And you saying, oh, could you go and pick up this thing for me? And me saying, oh, sorry, I can't tonight. And then you never speaking to me again? Yeah. Or like writing, do you know what I mean? Like it's he's saying, do you want to go out with me? Clearly you are saying no isn't an option. Oh yeah, you should be going out with me. Why would she reject me? Yeah, exactly. He, that is the thing, isn't it? It's narcissism being like, she, there must be something wrong with her because what she, she's her saying no to me is her trying to hurt me. Yeah. And I'm not gonna let it hurt me, even though it clearly has hurt him. But he's gonna be like, I'm just gonna make it her. Yeah. Because I'm not even bothered. I'm just gonna write a few nasty notes. Not even that big a deal. And like how baffling he, like how baffled he would be if the shoe was on the other foot. Oh, it gets worse because he then, after he's sacked, he just goes and hides in the woman's car and he consider, he said he considered kid kidnapping and mutilating her, but decided against it because he literally doesn't even think she's worth that. He's just what is his problem? I don't understand. Is he just oh, that's too much effort.'cause he's got such a God complex, he's probably hey that would hurt my cause. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like you can't frame that in any good way. Yeah, exactly. It's being like, there's a bigger picture here. Yeah. Ted, listen, there's a bigger picture here. Everything's happened for a reason and you are meant to be doing Yeah. These other things as well. Just send a bomb to her in a few years. Yeah. Just let her go. Her time will come. Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't spend every day of his fucking life trying to find a way to get a bomb near her that made sense for his ethos. Yeah, exactly. Because he doesn't wanna get caught because there's a bigger picture. Yeah. And if he was to just send a bomb to her, his brother would be like, yeah. So he was basically stalking her. Yeah. He was leaving her notes everywhere. He was terrorizing her, making her life. Hell, he hid in her car and then all of a sudden she has a bomb detonate around her. Yeah. It's long run. Meanwhile, so that's just a little story. So meanwhile, this, they've read the description and he set off all his bombs and he's also done the brom frack to LAX. Meanwhile the press is tossing and turning about whether to actually print the manifesto. So whether it would do more harm than good. But they actually. End up printing the entire thing. Okay. And they do this hoping that someone would recognize the writing. Exactly. So maybe those are things that, that's quite a fair thing to assume. Yeah. Yeah. But it was with a very heavy heart because the task force and the press. Really did feel that the Unabomber had won. Yeah. Oh my God. And they just didn't have much hope that this was gonna work. But where the fuck are they? Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And they're probably saying people will keep dying. And he said, it's so annoying when someone thinks that they have the right to threaten Yeah. Post what I say. Give me the clout that I'm asking for and you having to say, we have to do this. Yeah. Because otherwise he'll just keep killing. And we are so far away from the truth. But thank fuck it works. Basically, you have to take the gamble though. It is a lot like the Zodiac, isn't it? Like they have to never, you just have to hope that most people can't be asked to read 35,000 words. Yeah. That is fucking wild. And also like you, you have to hope that they're not such a fucking loner, that there's nobody out there that was, that they spouted this shit to Yeah. It's, and there will be, yeah. There will be people that are like, fucking keyboard warriors that are like, oh my God, preach. Love him. He's our god. We follow him now. But there's a small quantity of people that would actually start doing what he was doing. Yeah. In an admiring sense. Yeah. So then what happens is they release the manifesto. And his wife is you've gotta fucking read it. David. David. David. David. David. Read this, David. You've gotta read it. Ouch. David. Yeah, no, David. So you've gotta read it. It's really important he says in the documentary. No, it's Ew David. Ew David. That's it. Ew. David. So it's really important. Yeah. He says in the documentary, I went to loads of different shops and they were all sold out of it. And we didn't have a computer in our home, so they had to light library. I, it was a hot tea, do you know what I mean? Yeah. That was the hot tea of time. To be fair. I would've been like slapping that shit up. Yeah. I wouldn't have read the whole thing'cause I'd get bored. Yeah. Like halfway through. Less than half. But the fact that there's like literally a mystery there's conspiracy theories everywhere about it. Yeah. And then words from the horse's mouth have been released. Yeah. Difficult for the police because they're like, we're literally giving him exactly what he wants. But Yeah, I bet. Like they're just being like, if everybody reads it, yeah. Then we might get some slither of information and, but nothing else. Nothing else. And I bet David was reading it like, fuck so he finally gets it. And he's reading it and he's bro, that could be him. He's reading it and he's okay. This is wild. And then he starts thinking, okay, I bet his wife as well is no, that fucking is him. Do you remember that time that he literally said that to you? Did know what I mean? She's not met him. She's not spoken to hims and I don't evens know. She's read the letters. So basically his brother David and his brother they exchanged letters. Yeah. And that was the only way that they communicated. And I don't even think she's read them. So she's sat next to him basically being like, so tell me. Yeah. Do you think it's, and he's like reading it at first and he was like it could be him. Maybe not. And then he gets to certain bits and he's like the writing style, this actually reminds me a lot of a letter that I received from Ted. But he is still quite reluctant of course. But I wouldn't wanna believe that was someone that I knew. Yeah. It is probably always been that thing. Yeah, he's a bit of a recluse. He's a bit. Unhinged, he says really questionable things sometimes. But he's my brother and I don't want him to be Yeah. He's alone and he's got no friends. Also you never want to believe that someone's gonna do that. Yeah. But the fact that his wife, who's not even met Ted before is being like, that's the kind of shit that your brother spouts. Yeah. That sounds like your brother read it. Sat and he sat down and it's the writing patterns. Yeah. And it's the mannerisms and it's like everything about the way that he writes that is pulling through in that. And that makes him literally be like, yeah. Oh my God, that could fucking be him. But because he's still reluctant his wife actually encourages him to speak to a private investigator. Yeah. So they're not going straight to the police. Yeah. Just to look into it Also, if it's not him, it's not him. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Happy days. But you do it's so you've gotta do some due diligence, aren't you? Yeah. Like you have to, especially if you're like, oh, it could be him. Yeah. You walk into the police station. Look. It's my brother. It's my brother. And then it's not Yeah. You ruined that relationship forevermore. Oh yeah. But you remember that time that you thought I was the fucking Unabomber, but you'd never get over it, would you? I'd bring it up every Christmas. Yeah. Oh,'cause I said a few conspiracy things. Yeah. And just got a little bit lost. Oh, sorry. I was a bit weird there for a few years and got myself a cabin and then you accused me of being the Unibomber.'cause I just wanted some fucking peace and quiet. Yeah. Yeah. Just'cause I shut in someone's bath ones. Yeah. My God. But like also they, they said like after they released the manifesto, who got ths and some tips. Yeah. So there were, so imagine all those people that were accused of being the uni uniform. I feel like it was a, David was probably like, look we are gonna mug ourselves off. And him off and mom and dad. Yeah. And I don't wanna waste anybody's time. Yeah. It's a bit wild. Like it's a lot to come round to That's wife was, his wife was like, it's fucking him. He literally doesn't wanna know me. Yeah. Basically they hire a private investigator to look into it. And once they've done that and they feel quite confident, quite quietly confident about it they contact the FBI through their lawyers. Yeah. Okay. So they use them to help and they say, what would we do? What should we do? Yeah. If we've got some suspicions about also he's dangerous. Yeah. You don't wanna just be like, and he knows where you live. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You don't wanna just be like, oh, it's him. Like he might have something planned. Yeah. He doesn't think he's gonna get caught because he's a narcissist and he's cocky as hell, but he might have a backup plan for if this is ever, you have to be careful. Yeah. But you can't just go in guns blazing to his cabin. Yeah. You literally can't like, yeah. And he's obviously like he knows how to make fucking bombs. You don't know what sort of booby traps fucking Exactly. It's highly fucking dangerous. So they they use Ted's neighbor. So you know, the one that I sort talked about has sawmill. Yes. The one that he sabotaged, but he didn't know because he is actually friends with tej. Like he didn't suspect it ever. Yeah, he didn't know him until, so they use him. To be their eyes and ears to work out the terrain. Okay. Of where Ted's cabin is. Imagine I'm trying to think of like my caravan neighbors. If someone came up to me one day and was like, look, he might be a terrorist, so could you just walk by his cabin recording the lay of the land? And this guy does it. He does exactly that. No, I'd be like, get the tow. Yeah. Get the tow bar onto my caravan. I'm outta here right now. I'm fucking going, I'm gonna my sawman and move it somewhere else. I'm not fucking staying next to this guy. Yeah. No, but that's fair. Also if you think it's, if someone was like, basically the Unibomber just released his manifesto. And it's in the area. Yeah. And then the police come around and say, would you mind being a spy for us? Would you mind wearing a wire or getting a few recordings of your neighbor? Yeah. Because'cause there's something sus going on with him and you know that there's a bomb. You've reported him for setting bombs off before being too loud. Like you'd be like. No, this is my face. This is fucking wild. Yeah. Like I have to get involved. I'd be so gassed if someone asked me to get involved, but I'd be fucking shitting my pants. Yeah. I'd be so obvious. Yeah. Like from the minute I walked into the room, you'd be like, are you wearing a wild I'd be sweating. Yeah. Why you feel like, do you know it's me? But yeah, also, like you wouldn't be able to be like, I sit someone out. Yeah. There's no way have to be part of it. Yeah. It's too good a story. So yeah, they use him as their eyes and ears and actually eventually they figure out the terrain. They figure out his weird little one room cabin with no windows, and then they're like we're going in. Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna get him. So they arrest him, but when they arrest him, they actually don't tell the family. That they're going in, that they're going to arrest him. So they've given these tips and then it's been like a while. Yeah. And they've just not heard anything from'em. So they see on the fucking news that he has been arrested. It's probably the best way to do it though, because even if the family were being sussed with him or something, but they tell on the, they released to the press. Oh. That it's the family members who accused him. Oh my God. Yeah, you could have done that so much better. That's so bad, isn't it? Yeah. That's so bad. So bad. So in his weird little cabin is exactly wrote, we found him and it wasn't our copying and it wasn't our investigation, it was his brother. Let's see what the media does with that information. Yeah. What? Yeah. Also, what if this guy, you just arrested him. Yeah. What if he isn't him? It's not him. That's so detrimental, my friends. Yeah. That is so bad. So in his weird little cabin, he has, especially'cause David's done everything to do it in the most respectful way to, and like he'd So reluctant. Yeah, so reluctant. And he's been like, let's check this. Let's get the neighbor involved. Let's hire a pi. Like all of this stuff. Yeah. And then it's just been like, it was David. Fuck. He did it. He told on you. He's a snitch. Snitch. And his wife just sat there like it was me. Yeah. I did it. I did the worst. Actually suggested it first. Yeah. Imagine it's not actually him. Yeah. It's not been him this whole time. She's just fucking do, she's sick of him. She's fucking sick of him. So basically in his cabin he had loads of chemistry textbooks and homemade guns. I don't know how you home make a gun. Yeah. What does that mean? I dunno how you home make a bomb to be fair, but I really dunno how you home make a gun. No. And I'm crafty as shit. Yeah, you are. But if anyone could, you could, but that's wild to me. Yeah. So Ted is rumored to be in absolute disbelief when he is found And he is also. I could not believe it when he finds out that his brother has turned it in. And he's basically no, my brother wouldn't do that. I bet he is. I bet is his fucking wife. I knew I didn't like it. I, at this point, he goes, I will never have anything to do with them again. Yeah.'cause you go into prison, my friend. Yeah. And it's Ted Babe, I think you might have burnt those bridges. I think they might be done with you. So narcissistic being like, this is on my terms, that I won't be speaking to them ever again because what, they're gonna be rushing to come and talk to you after they find out. What's, who did? Is actually, while this is all happening, David is completely terrified. Yeah. That his brother's gonna get the death penalty in. Yeah, I bet he's absolutely distraught because, yeah, so he actually would've probably still had a relationship with him if Ted hadn't thrown his toys outta the plan and been like, E, turn me in. I'm fucking human. Yeah, it's absolutely, it's just so self-absorbed. Like it's so interesting how they're both siblings and they both have a massively high iq, but. David is, has empathy and has compassion Yeah. Towards him. And he's I know that it's him and I know he's done something wrong and he needs to go to prison, but I don't want to lose him. And he, I know it's because his head is shot to shit. Yeah. And he is had a hard life and all of this stuff, whereas fucking Ted's just in prison. Like, how dare he? He won't be hearing from me again. No, fuck, shut the fuck up. Also, when they go into his cabin, right? They find a bomb, a fully finished bomb that is wrapped, so it's obviously ready to go. Like he was planning in a matter of days to Yeah. So that manifesto getting released meant jack shit. So his brother. Yeah, exactly. I'll stop killing. Fucking liar. Fucking liar. And also his brother obviously has these like crazy wild feelings now of I've just saved somebody's life. Yeah. Me and my wife, but like I've, we've just saved life. I sentence my brother's death, but I. It is crazy. And like obviously you would never ever want to put someone through that. But you know that justice has to be served and you know that whatever's happening needs to fucking stop. Yeah. But I bet he's still in complete disbelief. Uhhuh, like even though he's literally been arrested. Yeah. And is literally evidence of a bomb there. It's probably no, surely I'm wrong. He also just thought he was too smart to be caught. Yeah. So that's why he's so angry at his brother.'cause he is if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't have been caught. And it's yeah. But that's how getting caught works. Yeah. Yeah. Don't really, if it wasn't for all the evidence, I wouldn't have been caught. Yeah, of course. He fucking wouldn't. Also, the way that he's like thinking that he's so smart by waiting three or four years to send it to his psychiatrist, but then he literally writes his manifesto in the exact way that he writes letters to people. Yeah. And like a couple years before he writes an essay that's I don't know. Oh no, I did say it. Yeah. And like he writes the essay, but it's like more hopeful and stuff. But it's the same fucking themes, Ted. Yeah. Yeah. In the same way Ted. Yeah, I'm sure. And then over the years you've been going fucking insane and writing letters like that to your family. Yeah, obviously. And then you big fucking dumb. Done ask them to print the manifesto. What did you think? I know it is just the clout getting to someone's head. It's being like, oh, look at how much I've got away with now. What if I literally dangled the character? Yeah. Like in right under everyone's nose and it's yeah, you just flew a bit too crazy. But you think your brother's that heartless that he just let you murder people. Yeah. This is what I mean. And say nothing about it. Yeah. Because in, in an ideal world, you don't want people that you love to do bad things. Maybe he's been nice to your fucking sister-in-law you wouldn't have a problem, but yeah. But she was like I don't like him. And it's because he says shit like this. Yeah, maybe She was like, I don't like that kind of worms. Go to prison for something. She staged the whole thing. Yeah. So basically, I just stopped writing. Like I've got like a paragraph left and I haven't even talked about the trial, but realistically, I'm not gonna talk a lot about the trial because that would probably require another episode. And I'm not trying three parts, so I'm just gonna He pleads guilty. Yeah. Yeah. And basically he's just, it all insisting he's not insane and he does not want to be represented as that. Yeah. Because that would make a mockery of his work. Yeah. So like he can't be seen as insane. However, he is actually diagnosed with schizophrenia. Yeah. Yeah. But he is deemed competent stand trial and that he is not insane. Yes. It's just because you've got schizophrenia does not mean just because you're schizophrenic does not mean that you are insane. Yeah. And also the spectrums of these things as well. Do you know what I mean? If he, he's got a very high iq Yeah. But he's also got schizophrenia is probably where the spiraling comes from. Yeah. But the fact that there's intelligence to it. Means that, and also he knows what he's done. He is aware of what he's done. It's not like he's completely out of it. It is that he genuinely thinks that it's doing something. Yeah. That's where, that's the bit, that is where the schizophrenia is coming in, is him genuinely thinking whatever he's doing, he fuels for the fire is important enough to make this difference. Yeah. But what he has done, he's fully aware of and would've continued to do also. It's so he is fit to stand trouble whatever. His sort of he's unmedicated, whatever the delusion is there, it's playing into maybe this is why he felt that violence was the only answer because that's what his schizophrenia was telling him. Yeah. Yeah. You just don't know really. But he's not insane. No. He knows. He knew exactly what he was doing. Yeah. He knew how to hide it. He knew. And yet to let people think that you were insane. Yeah. But he, that is to admit Yeah. That you didn't know what you were doing. Yeah. And he needs people to understand that he was doing that because that was his purpose and that was his reasoning. And then everything falls apart. Yeah. And that he was intelligent enough to be able to do it and fuck the system and fuck the way that everything's going. And I was trying to make a stand, yeah. And if it's oh, if he just pleads insanity through schizophrenia, then yeah. He's, yeah. It was all for nothing. And he can't let that happen. Which is why he's yeah, I did it all. Yeah. And this is why I did it all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So basically, as you said earlier, he pleads guilty to all federal charges. And that's in January of 1998. And he also does this to avoid the death penalty, so he gets life. But they take death penalty off the table as long as he agrees to plead guilty. And he also did it to pre, to prevent a lengthy trial, but I feel that a lengthy trial is something he would've actually enjoyed. Yeah. Yeah. But he could not do that without being the death penalty on the table. Yeah. Yeah. So I just don't think Yeah. Yeah. And because of this, like how obsessed he is with himself and what his purpose was in life. Yeah. So he received a sentence of all consecutive life terms plus 30 years. Yeah. And that is life without parole. Yeah. And he also waived his like, rights to appeal. So there was never, they never went back into it or had retrials or any of that. And then one thing I didn't write is how he died Rest in pieces of metal and nails. Yes he actually died by suicide. Oh my gosh. In federal prison. I did not think in 2023. Oh wow. Fucking wait in a while. It he was found unresponsive in a cell and he was pronounced dead at the local hospital. He's 81 years old, but he was being treated for late stage cancer. So maybe he wanted to take it into his terms, his own hands. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. His term. I assume once he went into, don't look at that. Why is it like that? What is that picture as well? Just some happy man outside his house. That's him. Oh, I see. I thought it was like this happy man outside his house, A staple picture for suicide. Yeah. And I was like, the frick. So that's him. Yeah. That's the una bomb. That's still cabin sweaty, fucking weird. Yeah. I've a wash mate. He looks like he smells like ginger bias, literally. Yeah. Yeah. So that's him. Sorry I didn't give you much on the trial and all of the dramas around that. There wasn't I guess that much around that because he plead guilty. Yeah, I did know that he pleaded guilty. I knew that his brother essentially rat him out, but Fair. Yeah, I knew about the yeah. Did she knew about that? Yeah, I knew about the club. Yeah. Yeah, so sorry about part one, but yeah, that was fascinating because I didn't, I. Know all the dets and Yeah. That's, it's good that I've, yeah. It's just mad because also yeah, he, we were talking about this earlier, but he's just about classified as serial. Like it, it's three, you have to kill three. Yeah. But to be classified as a serial killer. Yeah. And I think it is interesting because a lot of the time people are killing because, I don't know, they fixate on a specific person. Or they're, it's sexually motivated. Yeah. Or people are just, yeah. Spree killing and stuff like that. But this is more like for the system. It's more like supposed to be about the bigger rage against the machine. Yeah. Literally. It's more, it's supposed to be like about the bigger picture and about, like really poorly executed. Because I think you could have done a lot with the intelligence that you're dealt, but I guess if you're exposed to massive drama's, a damn fucking shame that you didn't use that big brain to do some good. Yeah. MK Ultra. Yeah, maybe that's where it went wrong. Yeah. That's not a great start. No. When your brain is developing, and maybe the rage would've always come out anyway. Also, I think he was probably, what, only 17 or 18 when he went through NK Ultra. Like you're still developing, especially Yeah. Your brain is developing. Yeah. That you've still got a long way to go and, he can claim that it wasn't anything to do with it and that's what he was always destined to do or whatever. That definitely has played an element into why it turned so negative, and I think people still aren't obviously, even though people know about MK Ultra now, and it's not even a conspiracy anymore. Like it is something that actually happened. It was fucked. And they were dosing people with LSD and people to take their own lives. Yeah. It was fucking wild. But and they did some horrible shit to people. Yeah. But they still don't know exactly what happened in the Maori experiment. Yeah. Yeah. They just know it happened. Yeah. That's it. So you don't know, you don't know if drugs were involved. Yeah. You dunno. And you don't know the prolonged effects Yeah. That, that will have on people. Like on people and what they passed down to people. Yeah. Hereditary and stuff like that. Like it also obviously spun out loads of conspiracy theories and stuff. The mon, is that how it's pronounced? Mon Monta, the thing that Montauk, the thing that strange things Yeah. Is based on and stuff like the, that all seems so baffling. Yeah. But where does that come from? Yeah. There's, we should definitely do an episode of on Mk Okta. Oh my God. Yeah. A beefy one. I think that would be a couple of parts. Yeah. And there's so many. There's there's, so the conspiracy theories in themselves is an episode Uhhuh. There is so much to it, but Yeah. What that did to, but then it happened to loads of people and they didn't end up making bombs that were killing people. It's just, it's not, it doesn't make it, it doesn't, schizophrenia doesn't make it Okay. Yeah. Living in a cabin by yourself and being a recluse, that doesn't make it okay. Just because all of these things have happened, it does not give anyone the it's the same as when we talked about Alien Warn when we were like, she had a fucking terrible life, but that doesn't give her a pass. Yeah. For what she did to people. Yeah. Like you can see how she got there, but it's not an excuse. Yeah. By any means. And there's other people that have been dealt absolutely fucking terrible hands. Yeah. And and have remained insanely positive and gone on to do wonderful things like, you have. There's a path and a choice, and you can't always control it, but what you can control is what you do. And there is a choice. Yeah. No matter what. There is a choice and Yeah. You can't choose what happens to you. Yeah. But you can choose what you do. Yeah. And, and every single one of these serial killers that we do, or killers that we do, or anyone that they're making, they make this choice. Yeah. That is a chosen path. Yeah. But it is just interesting that it's, it all wasn't for something that we totally disagree with. No. Just the way that it was executed is what is completely unacceptable. Yeah. And yet it is interesting to think that what someone could do with that knowledge and that intelligence, if you just did something positive instead. Yeah. Yeah. So that is the You bomber. Yeah. Anyway, here we are with our mic technology and our recording technology and our podcast technology. Yeah. Releasing it out to you on Christmas Eve. Christmas cheer, miss Eve Christmas and we'll see you tomorrow. Yes. For a very drunk, messy Kroger. Yeah, that is gonna be so funny. I actually cannot wait to edit it. It's gonna be so ridiculous. Yeah. But I just, yeah, I have to be mentally prepared for that. I did the, we were debating who should edit it, and about halfway through, I think we just go on some rambling drunken thing about how it's so fucking funny. I can't equalize it like you can. And we've been waffling shy for too long and there's too many voices and it's all everywhere and we are just falling over and getting up and down five minutes. And we managed to convince Tom to join us, which we did say in part one, but it didn't look a little bit dicey there for a second. And we were just like so drunk. We were just sat downstairs playing a switch and playing Super monkey ball in Mario car and eventually we were like, fuck, we need to, we did a podcast, I literal, she stood up and was like, what are we doing? Yeah. I was like, guys, do a quote from a film and guess what film is. And we were all like, rolling around on the floor Lolling. And then I was like, no. Yeah, we must go upstairs right now. Yeah. And then we still took us another half an hour. Yeah. But we got him up there. The voice of reason. He was the smart one. We, he'd keep fucking out of nowhere, just being like, what? Back in on the 21st of May, Illinois. And we'd be like, oh yeah. He really kept bringing us back to the story because we'd go off on fucking tangents and he'd literally be like, yeah, but this, and you'd be like, yeah, thank you for that, because we actually needed it. He'd be using full names, dates, everything, times. And I was just like, that man's a killer memory. Yeah, it great for me. But is he not drunk? We were very drunk. We were very drunk. Yes. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Hope you get all the things you wanted. And Santa brings you good things and you don't get cold. Trump doesn't get you exactly like he's been naughty. Yeah. And you know the usual, follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Kill The Mood Pod. Email us. At Kill the Mood podcast@gmail.com. Yeah. And yeah, that's it. Yeah. Lovely. Thank you so much for listening. It's subscribe. Yeah. We love it. To friends. Repost to friends. Give us downloads and views. Put us on some like podcast, like boards or like crime boards. Yeah. I don't know because like we have tried to do that ourselves, but it's just really sad'cause it's just us. Yeah. We're just like, but we're saying that, but people are listening and it is really cool and it's really great. So we're being a bit dramatic. Yeah. But just if you know somewhere, if you're so inclined and you think that you would like to put us forward as something for people to listen to, if you have a network, plug us. Yeah. We would be eternally grateful. Unless you hate us. Yeah. And then why the fuck are you here? Why are you still listening? That one was for you, Georgia. We love you. We do love you. And we finally did it. Yep. Sorry, it wasn't Amy. It was me. Remember that Georgia, I get the brownie points, not her. Yeah. I listened. Real good. Okay. Lots of love. Merry Christmas. Stay. Stay spooky.