Edmund Kemper Part One

Pack your bags, we’re heading into the early life of Edmund Kemper, and it's gonna get unsettling... fast.

This week, we’re diving into the beginning of the story. The troubled upbringing, the warning signs, and the murders of his grandparents.

But that’s just the start.

We’ll also get into the psychiatric evaluations, his time inside, and how he eventually made it back out into the world.

So grab a drink, settle in, and get ready because this one doesn’t start loud… it slowly creeps in.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Amy's eating the driest co-op like shortbread. And I'm eating a delicious MS cookie. It's delicious. They need to bring back the ginger one. The rich do get it better than us, don't they? My god. Also, we have to give up. I hope you're happy. Because we had to give up going to a beer garden on one of the first sunny days in fucking years. Oh yeah. So that you guys could have an episode. Exactly. So it's your fault that we're deprived of sun. And it's not completely optional that we do this. I know. Oh my god, what if it's no, don't get excited, but what if tomorrow it's also like that? And Okay. Let me get there and draw. Off we go. Africa! I can't wait. Fuck. It's wrong with me. I need to get my stims out of the way. What have what stims have I been doing lately? I keep doing a say this, but I keep going. Notice me, Senpai! Notice me what? Do you remember that like video of that guy that's like, notice me senpai, notice me? No. I don't even know if that's what he says. But it like it's just like this weird. I keep doing the like I said to you last night, but I was getting it wrong, the bag of chips. But I go, thank you very much, that's much better. I think it is just oh, maybe she says thank you very much. It's much better. Yeah, much better! Welcome to Kill the Mood Podcast. We are here to talk to you about everything spooky dookie. We're not professionals and we mean no offense in anything we say. This is just us trying to make sense of the senseless. Without further ado, this week's case is Edmund Kemper the Third. The third? Oh yeah, the third. She's found out what number he is and everything. Oh my god. I actually think that this is gonna be fucking hilarious because I know that I could have gone into more detail, but I think this is probably one of the better ones I've done in a while. Where I've actually got a fatty amount of detail. Um I will say, obviously, if you do know who Edmund Kemper is, or you don't know who Edmund Kemper is, he is vile. Yeah. The things he does is vile. I don't think there is much of a trigger warning for this episode, but definitely the next one. Spoiler, this is gonna be in two parts. And spoiler, the second part is gonna be fucking disgusting. And the second part is going to be disgusting. And also, I'd love to say that we start off slow. No, we fucking hit the ground running. Second episode. My last one was just all hearsay. So at least in this, there might be some fancy if they are hard. I think I said it in the episode, but I genuinely think last week's episode was my favourite ever episode to record. Because I was so rude, so rude, but I'd every every right. And like, I know that I'll never hear it, but if you do, fuck fuck you! Like, fuck you and you fucking shit about the fucking aliens, about I I it was absolutely diabolical. Like it was diabolical. But if we haven't actually had any feedback from the public on that one, so if it made I mean, I always doesn't make any sense, but if I manage to make somewhat sense I think you gave quite a good coherent story. I think it was just the story is nonsensical. Yeah. I feel like sometimes when I edit as well, we'll say something funny, but I won't react to it at all when I'm editing. And this I was literally laughing out loud. And Lauren was like, What? And I was like, no, please, because it is so what we've got where we've gone, it's just too like the disbelief in your voice. Also, I can't I really do want to find a way for me to not give my full ass opinion five minutes into an episode about a mystery, but I just seem to be incapable of it. Like I cannot seem to just yeah, just be like, oh that's I'll be impartial about that. I have to immediately be like, fuck it, it's fate! It's fate! No, I loved it. I thought that was the way that I thought it was gonna go, but just a lot more entertaining. Anyway, it'll be good because I don't think I've done a mystery for you yet. No, I've done we've done like unsolved cases and stuff, yeah, but I don't think I enfield haunting or like anything. I haven't done one of those, so I probably need to do maybe I'll make that my next one after these two. Because when you were telling me about the dilator pass, I was booked out. I was scared. That was creepy. My drive home, I was like, Eek, I'm scared. Yeah, so it would be and we've done another whole episode after that, so that would be fun. I want to be freaked out. Yes. But would you be drunk? Oh yeah. Maybe we should do. We haven't done a drunk mystery. A drunk mystery. Anyway, it's 10 minutes in. I haven't said a fucking other than his name, I've said nothing. So it's 1973 in Santa Cruz, California. Some of the most prolific serial killers in history are taunting the police. Ew. So the zodiac and the Golden State Killer are at the forefront of people's minds because I don't think the I think the Golden State Killer was maybe just finished. Yeah. Just stopped killing or known kills. 1973. 1973. And the zodiac had stopped killing but was sending letters. Yeah, because he got real bold with his lettering towards the stopped killing that they know of that they attributed to crime. At the same time, there are two active serial killers in the Santa Cruz area. So can you just imagine? Because of obviously there are still serial killers, like there's not them anymore, but because of like forensic evidence and stuff, it's usually like people that kill someone and then get caught, they probably would have turned into serial killers. Yeah, I'm sure short some of them were. You just don't have serial killers just knocking about like you used to. Yeah. Or you don't hear about them like you used to. Yeah. Or they're better.

unknown 6:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

That sounds awful. But they're like, maybe they're learning. Yeah, like there's ones out there that like knows how to. Because you like they always talk about how serial killers have to have an MO and there has to be a pattern and there has to be a victim profile. But then you see someone like Israel Keys who didn't adhere to any of that. And you think, I can't even remember how it is, right? I guess if you were to do it different and random every single time, it would be But the what I'm saying is what about the ones that they haven't found? Because that is exactly what they do. And then I guess there's people like Lucy Leppy, who like is a it's not what obviously that is you're killing a lot of people, but that's not in like a way that it's like you're going out at night and you're there's you're finding bodies in the morning and there's like a chase and there's a it's just one person that was doing a lot of crimes, yeah, that is that's a serial killer. Allegedly, I think you have to say because I don't think she's been convicted. No, she hasn't. But like that kind of vibe of someone killing people in hospitals and stuff like that's still a serial killer, but what I'm saying. You just don't think of it like night stalker opening the newspaper every single morning and being like, God, there's been another death down here and there's been death down here, and they're taunting the police, and there's letters coming in, like that's or like Green River Killer when it was like they're finding a body, uh bodies like every which way, like all the time. Yeah, like we've grown up with like unsolved cases and crime. I think serial killers are just knocking about. Is an active serial killer that I heard about, I wanna say, somewhere in the south in America, at the moment. Yeah, did you maybe you told me about that actually? I think, but I actually don't know that for certain, so maybe I'm bullshitting. Yeah, maybe it's let me do a bit of research about that afterwards. Yeah, and maybe it's just that people get caught, but they probably would have gone on to have done it again. It's just people are more likely to be called. Well, I think it's hard to harder to get away with money. And like all of this stuff being so advanced now. Yeah, wild. I just can't imagine. Moving swiftly on. So it's April 4th, 1973. A phone call is made to the Santa Cruz Police Department. He says, last Saturday morning around 5 15am, I killed my mother, and approximately 7.55 pm, I killed a friend of hers. Oh, fuck off. Yeah, and then he just puts down the phone and the police are like, What the fuck? Is this a hoax? We can't take it as a hoax, but it sounds like someone's just messing with us, but also if they're not messing us with us, we can't just be like, oh, prank callers. Let's leave it, no big deal. Yeah, who are you? Where are you? Yeah. So they trace the call, or I don't even know. I've said that he puts it on the phone, but that's actually might be a partial quote from him. He might speak for longer. Yeah, exactly. And he might tell them exactly where he's calling from. But basically, they know exactly where it is. Whether they traced it or whether he told them, I'm not sure, but they know exactly where it is. So police arrive on the scene almost immediately, like they're straight there and they're surrounding him. When they get there, it's a phone booth. And when they get there, they find a young man just waiting there for them. But this young man is six foot nine, 285 pounds. Oh my god. So he is fucking massive. Yeah. Officers say when they arrived on the scene, he puts his hands on top of the phone booth to show that he's like giving himself up. That's how fucking. I'd be like, nah. I ain't arresting that man. Who's going forward? How are you getting handcuffs around that? That's a chode of a risk. Like, you're putting your hands on top of the telephone box. How am I even reaching your hands? All I would be like is he could literally pop my head with his hands. Yeah. Bet yeah. Like, I would be like, this is a sell. Yeah. Not having it. Not I'm not going near BFG. Like, I cannot. He would roundhouse kick you to fucking England. What the fuck? If he decided to hulk out, he could take out the whole team. I know. She lifts up the police car. Yeah. Because full King Kong. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'd be like, I hang up my hat. Yeah. That's be done clock now. Like, there's a limit. There's a limit to height. Also, if someone is I've just called in, I've just handed myself in, I'm putting my hands here to say arrest me, you'd feel like that was a setup, wouldn't you? He's from the galaxy. This massive man can't have just laid it out for me like this. Ed Kemper would go on to be one of the most useful tools in aiding law enforcement to the development of catching serial killers. Of methods, sorry, to catch serial killers. Takes one to know one. FBI special agents John Douglas and Robert Ressler would make him part of a revolutionary psychological study, Mindhunter, if anyone's seen it. And because basically everything before Ed Kemper was from a rehabilitative perspective, not a preemptive. So they weren't trying to stop crimes, they were trying to learn from them and rehabilitate them once they've been committed. So you're like, let's just let a few serial killers carry on just to get in their head a little bit. Yeah, literally. And also what's a few more bodies? Yeah. A couple of psychology books. Yeah. So that we can learn how to stop this. Like stop it, you have to let it grow. It feels counterproductive. Yeah. So when you watch NCIS or Criminal Minds and they're like, we're just gonna have to wait for another kill. And they're like, Jesus. Have we not gone beyond that yet? Yeah, literally. But I guess that's what, yeah, in theory is in the future you'll stop as many because you've made a let the sponsors. I don't know. I suppose there's only so much you can do if you can't figure out who they are, can you? Yeah, yeah. And if you're at a loss, I guess you're just like, we'll just have to learn about the mind a little bit more when Yeah. And they obviously we'll talk about it, but obviously what they're doing is they're trying to predict the factors that might lead somebody to this. But the reality is you can't do that. Now we go back to the beginning. It all starts on the 18th of December 1948, when Edmund Emil Kemper III is born to Clarnell Strandberg and Edmund Emil Kemper the Second. Clarnell, yeah. Clarnel is the mother. Clarnell. Clarnell. Clarnell. Oh, Clarnell! Yeah. We should have said in Burbank, California. When Kemper was born, he weighed 13 pounds. Nope. For reference, the average size of a baby is about seven and a half. Nope. So I'm not taking that risk. That's almost a stone.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

That is that's insane to me. I already have big ass problems with child birth. Yeah. A 13 pound baby. No. I can't. I'm just trying to think of a no. No. I'm not doing that. Squeezing out a watermelon. It's already that, isn't it? Yeah, that amore. That is a weighty child. Like, I ain't even growing that in me, let alone getting that out of me. Ah, absolutely not. There's nothing. That's not gonna fit inside my ribs with my organs. And I know it, so I've refused to make room for that. Yeah, god. Are they rich as fuck? Is that why they've got those names? No, I don't think so. I have no idea why they've got names like that. First. Yeah. Just the third child. I wonder if it's like where you wanna be. Yeah. So you're able to be. And now you're a lord. I'm a lady now. Yeah. Yes, it could be. But the names are a bit wild, aren't they? Edmund Emile Kemper II and Clarnel Strandberg.

unknown 13:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

Wow. Emile is like French, no. What? I just don't understand. Yeah, I guess it is. It's just pretentious for no reason. Yeah. It's too much. Also, stop naming your children after yourself. Yeah. Get grit. That's the only fun part is you get to name something. Yeah. Oh, you're me now.

unknown 14:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

How about Amy? Also, they feel shit for that after what he did. Yeah, fuck. When yeah, so when he was born, he was a fucking mohosive child, and that did not stop. So basically, by the time he was like four, he was about a head taller than everybody else's age. So he was growing fucking fast. Like he was a massive baby. Massive kid, massive adult. Yeah. I'm picturing him in like one of those Fisher Price cars. It's just fucking whenever I picture someone young is that I can't I can't blow down their head. So it's just like a massive head on a child's body. But this guy's already huge, so he looks like a teenager at the age of four. Kemper was actually the middle child of three children, so he had one older sister and one younger sister. Oh god. Yes. Growing up around women as well. Yes, which oh my fucking god. I don't want to beef somebody who obviously like actually coined the words like serial killer and all of that. But I've got some problems with John Douglas, the special agent that was part of this case. But uh maybe we'll talk about it a bit, we'll probably talk about it a bit in part two. But yeah, I wanna I'm gonna beef him. Like that's fine, that's what we do best too. Yeah. Shock. So the relationship between his mother and his father was chaotic and volatile. Clarnell would complain about her husband's menial job as an electrician. A sparky like. I'd love to marry a sparky. Sorry. Lovely, Thomas. I'm hard to be doing a spark. Imagine if you could do that around the house. Yeah. What people that work in that kind of industry, it would just be so good to have those people around in your life. What are you gonna do? And make good money. Yeah. Sparky's a key, okay? Yeah. Anyway, fucking nope, not good enough for her. She's mad about that. So he was actually she named her child then. What? Edmund, his name. Yeah, I feel like she's giving off like she wants to be of higher value as a class, higher class as well as at one point. I don't oh no, I do talk about it. At one point, we talk about Edmund Emil Kemper II's dad, who is Edmund Emil Kemper, senior. So I don't know whether it was just something they did in their family anyway. Yes. Yeah, so they're in a volatile relationship. His dad was actually a World War II vet, and he was quoted saying that living with Clarnell affected him more than the war. Bro, that is such like a happy wife, happy. She does. I have to say, she is a handful. She's a fucking handful. She also I'm not saying she's not any fault. I'm just saying I don't my biggest problem with John Douglas is the way he talks about it is he says Edmund Campbell would have done any of these things if he'd had a different mum. Fuck off. Fuck off. It's like everyone could have done different things and also nothing. Do you know what I mean? You can have a bad mum and you can have a bad relationship you mum. Lots of people have bad relationships with their mums and have bad mums. They don't do what he did. So like it's never an excuse, but it's also never a blame situation when it's like he could say, Oh, we could have done better at parenting. But just say if his mum was different, none of this would have happened. And the all you get is his side of the story. So the reality of the situation. Did they divorce? Yes. Okay, good. Just imagine if he was just like, look, it's her. Yeah, so they separate, yeah. So basically, this goes on for quite a few years until his father is fuck this shit, I'm not living with her anymore. So he packs up and leaves. And his parents divorce in 1957. So what he's like nine when they divorce. Oh, I literally wrote that immediate afterwards. Good maths though. Good math, thank you. So after the divorce, Kemper is moved with his mother and two sisters to Montana. I don't think he has I think he has somewhat of a relationship with his his dad, but like not a particularly close one. So now he's living with his mum and his two sisters. His mum and his two sisters. Yeah. Oh my god though. So he's nine years old and it's just the three of them now. Uh no, the four of them, sorry. That was terrible now. Yeah. I'm just letting you remind you that I'm a fucking idiot sometimes. His relationship with his mother is extremely hostile. So Kemper later described years of emotional abuse from her. He said his mother was an alcoholic who hated him and she constantly belittled and humiliated him. So I wrote to you. Threatened by his size. What? Yeah. Because like I do find that sometimes Also, she sounds a bit like potentially man-hating. Like and she's got two daughters, and she loves the two daughters, and she feels very differently about him. Potentially, maybe he reminds her a lot of his dad. Yeah. And he gets the brunt of that, like quite often. So he is quoted saying, My mother was a sick, angry, hungry, and very sad woman. My mother was a very domineering woman. She humiliated me. Good god. According to Kemper, his mother frequently told him he would never succeed with women and treated him as though he was dangerous. Don't be telling don't be thinking about how your kid's gonna be doing with women. Yeah, why are you focused on that? Also, though, she won't fucking wrong, would she? No. Because he is fucking dangerous. Yeah, he is dangerous and he probably is not gonna do very well with women. Also, what he's probably leaving out to some degree is what the fuck were you doing? Yeah. What were you doing that made your mum be like, nah, sleep in the basement, you big ass bitch. I'm not letting you anywhere near my children. Yeah. Yeah. There must have been something to an element that she's got she can't have plucked out of thin air. But also, if it is that she's just saying, you ain't going nowhere with women, don't tell them. Don't do that how they're gonna get on in their sex life in later life. Just stay out of that. It this actually gets really funny in a minute. It's fucked. It's not fucked. If we're talking about someone and you're like, oh yeah, that's it's quite abusive, but like we're talking about Ed Camper and he did some fucking bad shit, so whatever. I guess it's like Levi Belfield is his mum and his relationship with his mum. It turned him it was aiding in him becoming a really terrible person, but also still funny that that's like how he thought he could behave in normal society. So because she feared that he might harm his sisters, she forced him to sleep in the basement, physically separating him from the rest of the family. She wouldn't let him have any real form of light down there, and he would talk about how the noise of the rats at night would scare him, so like he didn't sleep very well, and he was like constantly quite paranoid. It's funny. Kemper also overheard his mum on the phone to his father once, and she just called him a real weirder. She was could you imagine overhearing your mum? And she's like, Amy, she's just a real weirder. Can't make run no reasonable. And you're like, what, 10? Sleeping in the basement, and your mum's like fucking weird bastard. He's hanging out with rats. And he's massive. Why is he so big? What does it make sense? Like, but it seems like it's a bit from both ends, yeah. Like, he seems like a strange child. Yeah. However, you usually take someone that you can't understand to a psychiatrist. You try and make sure that they've got different approaches to learning and you're trying to put them in different environments. And you've chosen to raise a child. If they're a weirdo, don't just kick them to the basement and be like, that fucking weird. It's nature versus nurture, though. There are things to be done. Yeah, yeah. And like he might have been a weirdo, yeah. But like throwing him down to the rats is just not. So you've got no friends or family here. It's not enjoy downstairs. Yeah. Yeah. So it sounds like he's saying, Oh my My mum was the problem, but it's it's probably both. I think that you're both a problem. Yes and could have probably had a lot of And it's not fair that she treated you that way. Yeah. But that is not an excuse for doing what you then went on to do. Yeah, exactly. And like maybe, I don't know, because you're like ten or whatever, sh if she'd just gone and got you some help, it might have been a different story, but also it might not have been a different story. Yeah, and maybe if because what you're telling me that because you heard her calling you a weirdo on the phone, you decided you were gonna start murdering people. And what we've said time and time again is some people have really rough childhoods and they end up doing really great things because they're using their trauma to make other people's lives better. Also, I don't think it makes a lot of sense because if it's your mother that's treating you that way and the your mother that you're punishing, we'll talk about his victim profile in a minute. Ain't his mother. Ain't her. What is his siblings? Do they have opinions and stuff? So there is a couple of things from his siblings about like things that he used to do when he was younger, but not a lot. I don't know if they've piped in much about what he says about their mum. But then maybe they had a very different relationship with her than he did. Because they were allowed to sleep upstairs. Yeah, maybe they just didn't even use to see him. Maybe that it didn't really cross their mind the way that he was being treated. Yeah. Yeah, she called him a real weirdo. Then this is about fuck you, mum. So he also said that his mother refused to show him any affection because she believed it would turn him gay. Oh, yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. What because it would make him Because if she was nice to him, yeah, maybe he'd be more feminine. What? Because females what? I just don't understand. Or maybe more what matern what? I don't understand. Yeah. I don't know. So when Kemper was 14, he attempted to run away and go to his. Also, bitch, sorry. Oh Jesus came out of nowhere. You didn't want him to be gay, but he turned out to be a fucking murderer. Nice one. Yeah. Which one would have been worse, you tell me. Yeah, exactly. Jesus, sorry. And that was your biggest fear. That really fucked me off out of nowhere. You should have had a better imagination, Clarnell. Clarnell. So yeah, he attempts to run away when he's 14 and goes to his father, but when he arrives, he realizes that his father has remarried and has a stepson, and Kemper feels that he cares more about them than he cares about him. Which might be true. It doesn't sound like it doesn't sound like he intervened very much and had a lot to do with. I'm not sure how much the mum had a say in it, but it sounds like he wasn't really around anyway. So, you know, this massive man shows up on your doorstep. But, right, so this is the other end of it. So he says this all of this about his mum, and he says she's horrible to me, and like she never she made me sleep in the basement and stuff. But Kemper displays really disturbing behavior from a young age. He does things like decapitating his sister's dolls, acting out violent games involving execution like gas chamber and electric chair games. Right. I'm just gonna say I know we all used to do shit like that. Didn't there?

unknown 25:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

We always and cut my sister used to cut the heads off my dolls sometimes. Did she? No, she cut the hair off them, down to them being bold. And she used to tell me that my dolls were gonna kill me while I was sleeping. So, kids are psychopaths. Yeah, yeah. Kids are psychopaths. Except this last one.

unknown 25:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

Killing animals.

unknown 25:20

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

At age 10. Drizzy be create a worm. Same thing. Age 10, I think maybe he was put in the basement because it's just after his dad's gone. Yeah. He buries a cat alive. Fuck me. He lets it die. After the cat is dead, he digs it up, he decapitates it, then he puts its head on a spike.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Oh my fucking body.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

So maybe if that child is like six foot at ten years old, and you've got two young girls in the house, maybe you'd say, go to the fucking basement. Go to the basement, lock the doors, stay away from them. Yeah. Again, though. Not him to a psychiatrist. Yeah, literally get himself out. There's I don't think leaving him to his own devices. It's a good idea. But also would also be like, get away from me. Yeah, get away from me. You're fucking terrifying. Yeah, especially because at the end of the day, you can't someone that's that massive, if it's gonna be a struggle to get him to go and see a psychiatrist, like you don't know what kind of restraint he can resist. Not saying that restrain him! But like you it's not likely that you're gonna be like, go to the hospital and he's gonna be like, okay, mum. He'll be like, fuck no, make me. Exactly. And you cannot make him. But you can make him go to the basement. But you can make him go to the basement. I'm conflicted. Yeah, but same, conflicted. No, that is no way to treat a child. But fuck me. But terrifying. I don't know what's going on. And also, that's the stuff that he's willing to tell you. What about the stuff he or actually I don't even know if that's the stuff he's willing to tell you. I think maybe this is the stuff that his sisters have said.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

But I yeah. Yeah. So it's very one-sided from him. I'm not saying that his mother didn't emotionally abuse him and neglect him. Like I can remember like tying my teddies to a chair and being interrogating them with a body chair and being like, tell me what. And like maybe kicking them down the stairs and stuff like that. I'd act out the most insane scenes with my barbies. I've never looked at my pet and been like, what if I buried you? What if I killed you? Yeah. Not okay. No. And that is fucked. Yeah. But yeah, like I was watching a documentary and it was like, yeah, he used to get his sisters to tie him to the chair, and he used to pretend to be electric unit. Which I do think kids do shit like that. Like that's not that weird. I feel like if you've watched And I don't think decapitating your sister's dolls is that weird either. Yeah. I do the killing animals is where you're like, okay, you've crossed over the line then. Yeah, fair enough. So at age 13, he kills another cat with a knife and then keeps parts of its body in his closet because he felt the cat favoured his younger sister. Oh no, not the animals. Jeez. They're just babs. And like that cat probably did. Staying away from you, weirdo. I've seen what you did to the other cat. No, why would I want to be mates with you? I bet you've still got its head on a spike somewhere. Oh my god, yeah. She just goes down to the basement and says, Oh my god, a murder scene! Yeah. I d also I don't doubt at 10 years old you're not showing people that. Yeah, oh my god. Like, I bet his mum was fully aware. Oh my god, sorry. So yeah, his sister also reported to have said that Kemper would sneak out of the house at night armed with his father's bayonet and go to his teacher's house and watch her through the windows. Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And remember, this fucking kid is massive. Yeah. He's massive. Oh my god, imagine. I can't even think. Yeah, like she should have got him some help, but fucking hell. What do you do with a kid like that? Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, weird. Sedate him. Lock him in the fucking basement. Yeah, God, yeah, that's true. You can put a lockable door between him and everybody else at night. Yeah.

unknown 28:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

Fair. Yeah. Like, Clarnel, I'm seeing your game plan here a little bit. Yeah. So Kemper later said, I had these fantasies of violence, of killing, of doing terrible things. Yeah. And as you can imagine, he was not the popular kid with a cat's head on a spike. He struggled really socially during childhood and he grew unusually tall early in adolescence and often intimidated other children. Yeah. You can't hang out with people your size because you're too young. Also, do you remember being at school like if someone was like a bit unnaturally tall, you'd be like, oh you fucking big bitch. Also, people that wanted to be like a bit like prison, people that wanted to be like cool would fucking gun for the big ones. Yeah. Anyway. He rarely dated and had difficulty forming friendships. So during this period, he was quite lonely, and his resentment towards women, especially his mother, was continuing to grow. So that happened quite early on. In 1964, I think he's 16, 15 or 16. God, he's not in 1964. Yeah. In 1964, Kemper. He's not even over the fucking Oh anyway, he's so young, he's done so much crazy stuff. Yes, that's that also that's fucking wild. And I don't know whether he was doing that stuff when his dad was there. So like potentially that was just from nine to sixteen.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

So yeah, in 1964, Kemper was moved. Unsure who did this, whether it was his mother or his father, but he was moved to his paternal grandparents in California. So someone's acknowledged that the relationship is not good between him and his mum. He's gone to live with his dad's parents, and yeah, he moves in with them. Some psychologists said that the only person actually, I wrote some psychologists, it's not true. John, what did I call him earlier? John Douglas. That's always said the FBI guy. Whatever the fuck his name is. Him, he said that the only person he ever heard Ed Kemper say that he loved was his grandfather.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

But he also was quoted calling him senile. So about loved him about as much as he could was capable, potentially, of loving somebody. Yeah, like he was if he had to spend time with anyone, it would be his grandfather. Yeah, would leave him if he had the chance. Basically. So the dynamics of Kemper and his grandmother mirrored that of him and his mum. So his mother, his grandmother was also seen as verbally abusive, domineering, and emasculating. According to him. According to him. Yeah, maybe it's just not all as obviously locking someone in the basement is bad, but maybe coming from him, he just hates women. And he's saying anytime his mum tells him to do something, he's like, But part of me feels like that, this is the whole story. It's that John Douglas is saying, fuck, yeah, if it's down to his mother. Why is it always a woman's fault? Yeah, exactly. Why is there always also You weren't on the fucking scene, mate? What I'm hearing is that any version of a strong woman makes him feel like shit, so he starts acting like a piece of shit. I liked my granddad's, yeah, but my grandma was too domineering. Because what? She told you to do things at 16. Yeah, and they were Boo-hoo. Yeah, and they weren't split up. She's probably trying any different method that she can, whereas the granddad's probably just sat there. You go ahead, love, you do what you want, you try and get him to do this. And then if he's burying fucking cats in the garden and she's no, don't you be doing that around my two girls who I need to protect. Yeah, if it's just coming from him, it sounds like he's just got a problem with women. Yes. And that if his mum, his own mother, is telling him what to do at nine years old, he's got a problem with that. Yeah. Yes, don't lock them in the basement. But also, he sounds fucking dangerous. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not saying that she wasn't an alcoholic, that she might not have been a bad mum, that she might not have done this stuff. But don't let's not for a second pretend that he is a good, easy child. It sounds like he was doing fucked shit. Also, the fact that he says, Oh, and I went to see my dad, but he just didn't have the time for me, so I left him to it. And it's What why don't you fucking hate him? Yeah. And as we said last time, no smoke without fire. If there was a concern about him around his sisters, I don't doubt that it was something that was concerning her specifically. Yeah. And I do think there are different ways to handle it. Yes. Leaving him to the rats. But again, it's like that thing of being like, What why hasn't he got that sour hatred towards his dad when he's explaining it? Also even though his dad left him high and dry. Literally. His mum, he It's always your mum's fault, despite the fact she kept you in a house and looked after you. She's a bad mum. Yeah, it just sounds misogynistic, really. Yeah. I absolutely agree. And that's what pisses me off about John Douglas because he's literally it's his mum's fault.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

It's his mum's fault. With no recognition about what he was like as a child, what he was doing, what she was trying to do in protecting her two children. Like again, not saying she wasn't a bad person, just saying I don't know why we've gone straight to this narrative that it she is a piece of shit. And it's his fault for being a murderer. Yeah. And other people around, nobody's perfect, and there's probably other things that people can say to the till they're what is it, blue in the face. Yeah. That I should have done this, I should have done that, I should have said this, I should have said that. The fact that he's saying, yeah, it was her. Also, we're talking about the 50s, like therapy.

unknown 34:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

I don't know that that's don't know that's on everyone's radar. I don't know. All I'm hearing is that, yeah, she might have been quite domineering, she might have been strong. Again, you don't know that his dad wasn't a low misogynist and found her domineering because she could stand on her own fucking two feet and she had an opinion. And he's learnt from that from his dad is being like, that's how we treat women. And she's left high and dry to look after three children by herself, by the way, and get a job. And a scandal to be divorced back then as well. Do you know what I mean? Like she's probably already a bit of the talk of the town. And now your fucking your son is skewering cats' heads and people are saying, Why the fuck are you putting him in the basement? Yeah, and they're probably saying, Oh, that's because the dad left and there's no. She's just, I'm just doing what a gal needs to do so that her two kids who aren't terrified are gonna be looked after in the best way possible. Yeah. Because I can't just take my kid, yeah. I don't know. I'm going all sorts of things. Yeah, me too. I'm just saying, I'm just saying there could be a whole other narrative here that we've been completely missing, and it might not be fair to her, even slightly. Yeah. And I think we should be considering both because I don't think you should take the word of a serial killer.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Don't think they're a reliable source. Fares. So, yeah, he the dynamics between him and his grandmother are very similar to him and his mother, and he has a lot to say about her in the exact same way that he describes his mother. The arrangement does not improve his behaviour, as you can imagine, and Kemper frequently argues with his grandmother and resents being sent away from home. So we go to August 27th, 1964. So I don't know when in 1964 he moved to his grandparents' house, but he hasn't even been there a year. Oh, he's 15 years old. Not 16. So at just 15 years old, Kemper shot and killed his grandmother, Maud Matilda Kemper.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

Yeah. He shot her once in the head and twice in the back. He then stabbed her several times. Oh my god. Okay, that's fine. Oh, and they were just trying to Oh my god. Later that day, when his grandfather returned home from shopping, Kemper shot him in the driveway. Okay. Fair. The only person he's ever actually liked. When asked why, he said to the police, I just wanted to see what it was like to kill grandma.

unknown 36:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

How was it? Fifteen? Fifteen? And we're saying Clarnell had no right to lock him in the basement. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. I'm more on her side every day. Yeah, I really went in hard for her. I did. I think I called her a piece of shit very early on in this. I've read this. I did the notes. I just think I'm not willing to I'm not willing to bow out and say that she didn't do any of it. I don't think that's fair either. But I also don't think it's fair. That is what I knew about Ed Kemper before I knew anything in detail. I knew that he hated his mum and that it was because his mother had abused him. We have had this conversation before about how it can be inherently selfish of you to have a child without willing to weigh up the facts that they might be a fucking handful. Yes. And that you might not have this easy life, and if you don't have an easy life with your child for whatever reason, whether it's mental health issues or whether it's they're a literal serial killer. Do you know what I mean? If you're not willing to give your all as a parent to make their life the best, whether you hit complications and it's a faff for you, that is a selfish act if you're not willing to. So her having a kid and then him being problematic and her being like, oh god, this is just too much for me to get to the basement, that's wrong. Yeah. But it does sound like she was doing everything she could to stop him from shooting her in the fucking face. Also, tell me what her options are. Yeah, exactly. Because Tell me what her options are in the 50s. Yeah. You can't just get someone sectioned because he can probably, it seems like if he's going to school and shit, he's probably masking things quite well and just being in a. And then you know what he does? He calls his mum.

unknown 38:29

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

He kills his grandparents and he calls his mum. And you know what she does? She says, Okay, you're gonna put the phone down and you're gonna call the police and you're gonna tell them what you've done. So he does exactly that. Yeah, so she's still to the bitter end just trying to get him to do whatever he can that. And he had the guns, had access to the guns because his grandfather gave them to him, and his grandmother took them away. Yeah. Took them away. So if it this doesn't scream a story of women being called emotionally abusive and domineering because they what? Punish? Yeah, yeah. They have a have something to say, they try to mould. Maybe his mother was domineering, but maybe that's all she knew what to do with him in this situation. And she might have tried loads of different things, she might have taken him to doctors, she might have done all of this stuff, and she's just saying, at the point that he started burying cats and no one was helping me, I started. And maybe she wasn't emotionally available and sensitive, but the there is no fucking way that that those there weren't things that she was seeing that weren't concerning the shit out of her from a very young age. Also, if her being hard on you wasn't working, her being like she kept him in her house. She kept him as her son, despite her fear of what he might do to his sisters. Oh god, what a horrible life. Despite what he did to his grandparents, she keeps him in her life. Jesus. Yeah, because she's who else has he got, even though he fucking hates me and he's a misogynist too. And maybe she also thinks, even though I hate him. Yeah, yeah. Even though I hate him. Maybe she is. I brought him into this life. Yeah. That's till I die. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, I'm just not doing it. Yeah. Fucked. Yeah, he kills his grandparents. And yeah, he says, I just wanted to feel see what it was like to kill grandma. He also said that he killed his grandfather so that he would not have to discover his wife's blood. He believed he was saving him from what he'd done. I just actually just can't be off. Fuck off. Don't fucking do it then. Literally. So after the murders, Kemper calls his mother, who told him to contact the police. He did calmly and then waited for officers to arrive. Oh my god, say he's yeah. Yeah. Because he was a juvenile, he sent to I did practice this, a Tescadero State Hospital, which is a maximum security psychiatric facility. Yeah. Should have already been there. Yes, literally. But it's okay. If you want to an insane way to get someone sectioned, but fine. If this is what it takes, this is what it takes. It was said he didn't really fit the mould at the time of someone who was criminally insane. So they had no idea what to do with him. So basically, from the age of 15 to 21, he was just locked away. That's gonna do wonders for his social skills. He said with nothing else to do, he would spend his days masturbating a lot. And while he masturbated, he would fantasize about what he would do to his mother. Yes. I can't even respond to that. Yes. I know. So Kemper spends five years in the hospital. And they just they didn't know what to do with him, so they just locked him away. Yeah? They're probably just watching him have a way to get away. Is this not what his mother's been doing to him his whole life? Like she didn't know what to do with him, so she locked him away. No one is helping him, to be fair. However, I already believe he's too far off. Well he is, because he's already murdered two people. Yeah. But I feel like if anyone gave him a slither of a bit of attention on working out what's going on in his mind, but instead they were just like, guess we hired him for six years. Yeah, basically. And uh yeah, so he's in there for five years, and during this time he cooperates with psychiatrists fully. He's like top, like perfect little angel in the hospital. I bet he loves it, I suppose. He appears to be highly intelligent and self-aware. He actually is tested and they find that he has an IQ of 145, which is genius level. Jesus, not quite Preston Nichols, though, is it made? That is fucking high. It's high, yeah. It is really high. So in the hospital, they all said that Ed was friendly and likable.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

Ew.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

Yeah. They even allowed him to help administer psychological tests to other inmates. What? Yes. That's how trusted he was in the hospital. What? Yeah. Give us a hand down here on analysing someone else's brain and giving you maybe more ideas for the future. I don't know. Exactly. Because the serial killer, the sociopath, the narcissist was not well known. Differentiated, yeah. They didn't understand. They're like, he's not. I think to begin with, but like really early on, they diagnosed him with paranoid schizophrenia. But that's he's not in psychosis, he's not hearing voices. Like, I think they did not know how to deal with him. And he was lovely, he was intelligent, he knew how to speak to people, somewhat charming.

SPEAKER_01 43:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

Very talkative, very likable, yeah, very confusing, and only 15 years old. Yeah, exactly. So they're like, it's crazy because we know you that you've done this thing, but the you that's Presenting in front of us. But with an IQ like that, you can very easily be one person to the room but be thinking something else completely. And I understand that there wasn't as much information and there wasn't you aren't differentiating these diagnosis. Diagnostics? What? Diagnoses, I think it would be. Diagnoses. Like you I just don't think you should be letting them in there then. No, you absolutely shouldn't, because this they think that this experience helped him understand how to present himself as rehabilitated. To get out of the hospital, they gave him a test, and basically Kemper had done it so many times he just memorized the answers and he knew how to push the right buttons to get out, he knew what to say. Yeah, yeah. He also said after his second arrest, obviously, that he learned a lot about how to manipulate psychologists from the sex offenders that he would help test. Oh no. Yeah. Yeah. If someone is insanely intelligent, instead of saying and they're using it for bad things, they're not using it for good things, they're using it for bad. Like you saying, why don't you come in here and watch how other people do things and try and get even more into the human mind? Yeah. Like. Why don't we teach you how this works? Yeah. Why don't we teach you how this works? You have a genius level IQ, and you're gonna watch us administer tests, some of which gets people out of it here and act as if they're rehabilitated. And at no point did we think he's gonna just mimic this. Yeah, what if he cheats the system? Also, it's not like he's got anything else to do with his time. But they were so secure in him and how likable he was, they genuinely didn't believe that he would do any other harm. Yeah, and also watching if you're talking to me and I'm talking to you back, that's all I can think of. Yeah. He is probably thinking, he's probably having a really normal conversation with someone whilst also memorising everything can about big mannerisms and everything. Like he's learning and he's like adapting. It's like robotic. These people like adapting and feeding information and stuff so that he can just become this fake guy. You also wonder if he's a loner, who does he who did he get all of that from? And then that's what I was gonna say earlier. It's probably why he was so cooperative at the start. Before he realised he could manipulate the system, it was probably that people were paying attention to him. Yeah. If he's going through school and everyone's that's a weirdo, and now they're like, let me get in your head. Yeah. Oh my god, these people are think that I'm really interesting. But we're talking about mimicked behaviour. He he obviously had an ability to mimic behaviour, but whose behaviour is he mimicking? Who who has taught him how to be a normal person in society? Who is that lovely and that likable that people enjoy them? And then you hear people that used to work with his mother talk about her, and apparently people at her work loved her. Interesting. Loved her. He is just he's clearly been like, she's a does not mean she's not an abuser, but which is what was I found really interesting when you said that he grew up with three women. Yeah. Because the dad was off the seat and he's left with three women, and like my dad is so in touch with his feminine side because he has loads of daughters and he grows up, he's grown up in a house with like predominantly women. He is in touch with his emotions and stuff, and he's so kind and caring and careful, and he understands like people's hormones and like stuff like that, because he's grown up around females and he understands how to behave around females and also how to protect people and how to love people and stuff like that. But you'd think But it sounds like Ed Kemper grew up resenting the women around him for the fact that his blaming his mum for the fact that his dad left. Yeah, exactly. And that he never looked back and got his own family, that he never put any of the blame of that at the door of his dad. Yeah. He actually only ever blamed his mum and then resented being around these women. Yeah. And it's a loner and kids didn't like being around him because he was scary, because he was massive, yeah, and he d maybe wasn't the best at talking to people and all of this. And if you're constantly thinking, oh, I wonder what would happen if my masculine, manly figure of a father was here, I wouldn't be getting bitched about and sent to the basement. Yeah. I'd be getting told that this is allowed because I'm a man and I'm allowed to do weird stuff. Yeah, and maybe no one would have a problem with what I'm doing to these fucking cats if there was a man in this house. And it shows because if he's gone to his grandparents and immediately respected the man and hated the woman, it's not a good thing. I just think there's a lot of entitlement with him, and yeah, I don't know, I just don't I don't believe this narrative, like this full narrative about his mum. I think that they both had a part to play in it, and I think you you have to sympathise about what she was trying to do and what her options actually were. Yeah. Oh god, they've really just not done a good thing here by putting him in those things. No, because now we can go out into society and manipulate the shit out of people as well. In 1969, at age 21, actually on his 21st birthday, psychiatrists conclude that Kemper was no longer a danger and he was released. He was also declared sane, and they believed that he had been a model patient, he would never do any harm again. In November 1972, so just skipping ahead a little bit, Kemper had demonstrated so well to his psychologist that he had been rehabilitated that they actually expunged his record. The psychologist wrote a glowing letter for him saying, and I quote, it is in my opinion that he has made a very excellent response to the years of treatment and rehabilitation, and I would see no psychiatric reason to consider him to be of any danger to himself or to any member of society. Oh my goodness me. He was then paroled and returned to live with the person he blamed most for his suffering, his mother. So despite talking shit about her in his years in the hospital, they allowed despite knowing what he'd done, they allowed him to be released into his mother's care. Also, his fucking mother took him back. Yeah. After it wasn't her parents, it was his, but still, after she knew that he killed two people. Yeah, I can't really work out the It's so confusing, isn't it? Because in a in a sense, is it like he's got nowhere else to go and I want to keep my eye on him? Or is it he fucking owes me now, look what I've done for him, or Or is she just not thinking that's as big of a deal as he's like, and also if you I don't know if her kids maybe her daughters weren't with her at this point, because he's 21 now, one of her daughters is older and one's younger. I don't know by what age gap, but they might not have been at home anymore. Yeah. And I yeah, anyway, I don't know. But yes. Yeah. He goes back out to his mother in 1969. Don't forget that little tidbit I told you about 1972 though. Kemper describes in interviews how his mother returned to the abuse immediately as he went home. In the dock, one of the men says that she broke him. He blamed her for his inability to assimilate into everyday adult life and the fact that he was a loner. Just go to fucking chess club or something, do you know what I mean? Don't be like, you've made me a loner. Yeah. Have you been outside? Have you tried to speak to someone? Yeah. Have you been to like social gatherings or enjoyed a club or I don't know, gone online and rather than fucking doing what you do in the dark. Yeah, maybe it's because no one relates to you in that way. Yeah. So he really wanted to fit in. And do you know what we wanted to do so that he could fit in? He wanted to become a police officer. Of course. And that he said this is because he wanted to be a part of something. I bet the power and control had literally nothing to do with it, and the ability to understand how they investigate things like. Especially because you've just been working so closely with psychiatrists and psychologists and all of that stuff. Yeah. And you're like, oh, that's so powerful when they can manipulate the situation. Look at how look how smart I've been told I am and how many tests they've done on me. What if I also controlled the system? Yeah. In also in the documentary, because he talks a lot, he fucking waffles a lot. And in the documentary, he says things like, Yeah, before I went into the psychiatric unit, like I thought I was an idiot. Like I thought that I was really stupid because that's what my mother would tell me. And then we did the test, and it was quite a nice surprise that I'm actually a genius. I was like, fuck off. You know that you're clever. I'm not saying that she didn't dampen your self-worth, but Jesus, you knew you were clever. Yeah. You would have been at school, you would have been told you were bright probably your entire life by people. Yeah. Don't pretend. Yeah, exactly. Like, I just think as well. If you You can be a very intelligent person, but if you're still making conscious decisions to bury a cat, I'm gonna be like, you fucking idiot! Do you know what I mean? Like she might have called him an idiot, but maybe she's you idiot, why have you killed another cat? Stop killing cats, do you know what I mean? And he's like, Oh, does that make me stupid? How dare you, Mum? Yeah. Don't worry, I've been told I've got on 150 IQs an hour. Your meaningless, like your words are meaningless. Just in nothing you say matters because I'm actually a genius. Yeah. It's like you still chose to decapitate a cat for no reason whatsoever. Like, I can't get on board for fucking genius.

unknown 53:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:34

Use it for good! Every single time, every single time. These stupid men being smart, yeah, not using it for good. That's why it's stupid. So it's actually believed though that he wanted to be a police officer so he could learn investigative techniques that may have got him caught.

SPEAKER_01 53:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:51

Because I think personally I believe that he always intended to do what he did. Yeah. Kemper couldn't be a police officer because six foot nine is too fucking big and there's a height limit. So it was big no. It was fuck off. No. Could you imagine seeing a six foot nine police officer? No. Absolutely fucking not. He was just a little teddy bear, you know? Yeah. I'd be terrified. If you didn't know that, you'd be like, A six foot nine man would terrify me regardless. How tall is oh fuck, what's his name? I think I'm so close. Terry Cruz in Brooklyn 99. Oh, he's massive. Yeah. But I think like 6'6, 6'7, not 6'9. And like he's still massive and a little teddy bear. Yeah. And like, even him, if you didn't know him and he was just walking up to you in the street, you'd be like, I'm not sure. Fucking scared. Yeah. Yeah. Such a good character. Yeah. He cannot be a cop because he's too fucking massive. And he instead joins the California Highway Department. That's about as much as I'm going to tell you about his job because it's completely irrelevant. But that's what he does. A ticketing. Maybe. Like he can pull people over potentially. Or maybe it's more like highway maintenance. I'm not really sure.

unknown 55:05

Wild.

SPEAKER_00 55:06

I wouldn't be surprised at this point, but he just fucking was lead detective on the case. On the case. The terrifying thing is if he'd been in a smaller body, he would be.

SPEAKER_01 55:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:16

Like he wouldn't have had any problem getting into the police, I don't doubt, especially with how clever he is. Yeah. Or maybe not, maybe he would have failed a psychological test. But it seems like not. If he's not. If he passed a psychological test in a psych ward, the likelihood of him getting into the police, they let fucking everyone. Also, getting out of the psych ward and that one where I said his record got expunged, that's two different psychiatrists. That's not the same. Yeah. And I just don't think you need to have a lot of you don't have to get into the police. I just don't. It's wild that they've been like you're too tall. Yes. Because I feel like that's a little bit more than a lot of people. Well, there's other things, isn't it like you can't do it if you're colourblind and stuff like that. There's some or not left-handed. That's not right, one. That can't be right. That was not what I meant. Yeah, I don't know why I've just said that. But there is something else that's wild that you're like, really? Oh no, that's it. Or is that the army? I can't remember. But there are some things that you absolutely cannot left-handed imagine. Fucked. I bet that was one at some point though. We don't make left-handed guns. Anyway, so yeah, he's he joins the California Highway Department. Kemper says that it is his mother who kept him from dating women his own age, telling him they would never date him as he was worthless. So he makes the decision that if he can't convince them, he's gonna force them. At the time in California, hitchhiking had become a cultural norm for free-spirited youth. It becomes a routine for college students and runaways to make their way around America hitchhiking. In the early 70s, Edmund begins picking up hitchhikers. At first, he would often drive them safely to their destination, but he described these as test runs. He later admitted that riders Oh, sorry, he later admitted that rides were filled with violent fantasies, and each time he would let someone go, he would consider that the next time is when he would give in. And he said, one side of me said, Wow, what an attractive girl. The other side said, I wonder what a head would look like on a stick. Why is he obsessed with that? And that is Edmund Kemper part one. That is a quote. Yes from Edmund Kemper. So apparently in they use that quote in American Psycho, but they they attribute it to Edgeen, but it's Edmund Kemper. Yes, I do know when you said it, I was like, Yeah, no, it is Edmund Kemper who said that. Georgia was setting up my my the chair in the living room, like with my cut your head just. Yeah, she I can't remember what quote it was, but she did it exactly in his voice from American Psycho. And oh I was horrible because she laid out in the room and the spotlight on us, and then she had all this stuff, and she was just like, she did this quote from him, and I was literally like, I have to leave, I don't like it. She's just I'm joking on him. And we were joking about Amy hitchhiking earlier in the next few days, because there's something in Cornwall called the pasty connection where you can jump in and get a ride with someone, but it's just like online hitchhiking basically. I feel like it shut down the pasty connection. Oh, I don't know, I haven't used it for a reason. When I was at uni, I used to do it quite a lot to get back down here and stuff. Yeah, I did it a couple times going up or back from Birmingham. Yeah, but nine times out of ten it was just other students. Yeah, nine times out of ten for me, it was literally fine except for some couple of weird times. A couple of weird times. A couple of strange times. Anyway, don't hitchhike. But that's it. That is part of it. Yeah, I disagree. I love hitchhiking. When I used to live in the caravan, I would literally get lifts off random people also. You're so fucked. You're gonna get murdered one day.

unknown 58:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:48

It's a good thing you live in Cornwall. Yeah, I just feel like people are like, get out of my car. Yeah. I'll be like, hey Carrie, go your way! If it's a man, no offense. Yeah, but like I don't think there's anything wrong with not getting in cars with men. Yeah. If you don't want. Yeah, it is fair. There's one guy who used to like pull over and tell me that I was too in the way of the road, and I'd be like, Yeah, I can't drive, and I live in the middle of nowhere. He was like, it's raining loads, and I was like, What do you want me to do? I can't just not go into work because it's raining loads. Offer me a live. But I didn't want him to go. I don't want to get in your car. But I did meet some pretty fun people from doing it, but I would not recommend it to be fair because it's carnage. You are you won't want to do it again after this. Yeah, no. And in the moment I'd be like, oh god, it's raining and my hive is so. You can drive now, so yeah. Like at the time, I'd just be like, fuck it, I'm just getting down. I'm just getting down there. Anyway, yeah, crazy times. That's part one. Thank you for listening. Not to say that I'm glad that he killed his grandparents, but it's like quite interesting, isn't it? That like there are still he didn't kill a couple of people, and actually, maybe people didn't know that about him. He has actually been to prison psychiatric hospital before. Yeah, I didn't know any of that stuff about him. I know about the what's coming next. Yes, yeah, I know bits about what he did, and I know bits about the detective. What did you say his name was again? I forgot again. John Douglas. Do the usual, follow us on Instagram at killthemood and email us at killthemodcast at gmail.com. Thank you very much, and we'll see you in a minute. Bye!