Edmund Kemper Part Two

Pack your bags… we’re not done yet.

This week, we’re continuing the story of Edmund Kemper, and things take a darker, more unsettling turn. After the murders of his grandparents, the psychiatric evaluations, the time he spent locked away, the decisions that eventually put him back on the outside, he's out and at it again.

But this isn’t a story that explodes all at once. It lingers. It builds. And the more you learn, the more uneasy it gets.

So grab a drink, settle in, and get ready… because this one doesn’t hit all at once; it slowly sinks in.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Well, you're not sure. Mate. Matey waiting. I'm gonna do it in a deep voice. Sorry, I've got a biscuit in my mouth. Okay. Welcome to Kill the Mood Podcast. We're here to talk about everything spooky dooky. We are not professionals and we mean no offence in anything we say. This is just us trying to make sense of the senseless. Without further ado, this week's case is Edmund Kemper part two. Edmund Kemper III, part two. Edmund Kemper Emile No, I did it wrong. Edmund Emile III, part two. Part two. See, I am listening at least. Well done, you remembered that. Thank you. He was born in the 40s and he killed someone in the 70s. Yeah, yeah. Well 60s to begin with. Then 69. We left at a point where No, it wasn't 69, was it? Joining the police, he was about to get all of his Hey, hang on a minute. I have a question. Yeah. How was he allowed into the police or into whatever he was doing, the highway code? That's a very good question. Don't know. And he had the highest crimes expulged or expunged. Oh, I think he might have. So I think he had various jobs before then. Okay, and then 72. And then in 72. Everything but what you said. In 72, he has his record expunged. Which means we don't pay attention to the fact that he killed two people in cold blood. Yep. Make him a police officer. Didn't just shoot his grandma either. Then after she was dead, stabbed her many times. And then decided to kill his granddad later that day. Anyway, so no big deal. That's the kind of thing where you can get expunged, apparently. And then you can literally draw him up. I didn't put the whole He couldn't because he was a big bastard. But that's the reason he couldn't. It's not the murder, it's the height. It's weird. Yeah, I I think what I read, and that actually really enraged me. The whole statement from the psychiatrist is basically It would be an awful shame for a young man not to have the same opportunities as everyone else. Because people would know that he murdered two people. And you're like, Are you fucking kidding? You throw the same opportunities as everyone else out the window and you decide to take lives. Two lives! Because that means that you don't think that you should conform to society like normal people do. It means that you think you can do whatever you want. Or she's not. I'm gonna guess that his dad fucked right off after that. Because I see no other mention of his father. Do you think that's why later on he says that it's the mum's fault because the mum took her him back in after he'd murdered the dad's parents? Sorry if that was a bit of a word. No, I get what you're saying. I think he's I think he's a misogynist. Yeah, definitely. I think that he decided that it was her fault. But I wonder if then he's look, we need to cut him off, and the mum's like, I'm taking him back, and he's like, You're the problem. Yeah. I always knew it was you. Yeah. He killed my parents. I'd just like to say, if she was slightly emotionally abusive. Slightly. Locked him in the basement. If she was emotionally abusive and she said, You're fucking weird, stay away from my daughters, and then he came back home and she was like, See, I fucking told you. I told you, I knew what kind of monster you are, and then had this toxic relationship with him, kept him in. I just say, even then, he's still a fucking murderer.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Still a fucking murderer. He still chose to do what he did, and also have no idea what it has to do with his mother, what he then does next. Yeah. I just don't I don't think as well he has the right to say, I don't think he has the right to do any of this stuff, but him saying, My mum is the one that told me I'd never get with someone, so I decided to not give not allowing them to have consent. Also, it's my mum's fault that girls don't like me. Um, that comment in itself is why girls don't like you. Yeah. Like maybe it's the fucking five years you spent in a psychiatric ward because you murdered your grandparents. Maybe that's why they don't like you. Maybe it's because you were bringing your head. Your cat's head on spy. Your cat's head on spy. Like, that isn't gonna go down very well with the romantic sides of the things. Yeah. And then, also, didn't write this in the notes. We'll get to them in a minute. Also, by the way, if you don't know what we're talking about, you should have listened to it. Yeah, but it's your own fault. Also, in in that documentary, he says, they basically said, What's the thing about heads, Ed? Could you let us know what's going on with that? And he says, Oh, I think there's lots of things it could point to. He says, There's loads of things it could be, but it could be that my dad had my favourite chicken and beheaded it, and then what? I don't know, maybe us made us eat it or something, and I can't remember what it was. It was stupid. And he was like, I was riding on my little bike trying to stop it, and it's like, don't lie, because we already know what you did to that cat. But two, that sounds distinctly like something your father did. Yeah, and yet it's mum's fault. Yeah, exactly. It's not like your mum was like bringing home fucking dinner and just like snapping necks in front of you. Do you know what I mean? If it's something to do with trauma, which is why you're so fixated on decapitating things, but the only reference you can think of is your dad killing a chicken even though you were chasing it to saying stop, don't do that. And then instead of him being like, This is how we survive in the wild with the meats, he's like, bye, I'm gonna divorce you. Yeah, divorce, she's too bossy. Yeah, exactly. He's like, Here's a decapitated chicken. I'm gonna be I'm tapping out. Yeah. Yeah, men. Anyway, men, gross. So we are I say that, ten minutes in, gonna get stuck right into it. Like, I left all of it for this part two. Okay. So we're about to lay it all out. And trigger warning, this is fucking horrendous. Like, it is bad. Do you have any lip balm? No. Yeah. Don't worry. No, I just thought I don't think I did actually. Licky lips, make it better. Yeah, so May 1972 is where the spree begins. So obviously, if you remember, we left off in 72. He has started picking up hitchhikers and going for dry runs. So letting them go, but teasing himself next time, being like, oh yeah, will I go that far next time? Will I wear high? Seeing what he can probably get away with regarding like people getting out of the car and reporting him by being like, This Diva's fucking sus. Yes. And what I'd like you to acknowledge about that is May 1972 is where it begins. November of that year is when they expunge his records. Jesus. Okay, so he is already killing again. Before that report comes out. Before that report comes out. That's all keys, isn't it? Yes. So between May 1972 and February 1973, Kemper murders six women. Most of them college students hitchhiking around Santa Cruz, California. Yeah. Going back to last week hitchhiking conversation, I wouldn't be hitchhiking in a country that I don't know. I also wouldn't be hitchhiking in the car with a man that's six foot fucking nine. Yeah. No way. No way. Absolutely not. I have hitchhiked before. Literally from where I used to live in a caravan. Yeah. Seeing people from like down the road in the village. Important to know. 10 minutes down the road. Not blaming. No, not at all. Because also was of the time. Yeah, and hitchhiking. My mum, who was born in 68 or 69, I can't remember. She used to hitchhike when she was in her 20s, so that's like the 80s, all the time, all the time. And I don't think. It was so much more. I don't even think that they were hitchhiking like massively huge distances. Do you know what I mean? It was like college towns, and they like. I I think they were like hitchhiking between colleges and stuff. I think and maybe it was long distances and stuff, but yeah, it was just like it was the norm. I just think you hear a lot of stories about like people doing like backpacking and stuff all around in like rural areas where things go really wrong. Yeah. And I think if I was away from home, yeah, that's when I just wouldn't be doing it. Also Not again, yes, 100% not their fault because people should just not murder and be dangerous people. But yeah, I just have to clear that up, mum. That if I ever go travelling, that's I would not be doing it there. Yeah. I uh it's really interesting as well because we just said I wouldn't get in a car with a six foot nine man. However, I don't necessarily think I've put them in the notes, but I think he was very clever about doing certain things. Like he says things like he used to do this thing where if he'd pull over for someone and they were like talking and telling him where he wanted to go, he'd be make really subtle moves like checking his watch. So they it felt like that he was busy and he really needed to go somewhere. And he was I guess I can so that there was a level of Oh my god, definitely get him right now. I'll take you right there, I'll take you to the door. And then they'd be like, oh, weird. It's like he's being like, Oh, I guess I could squeeze you in, but I might have to drop you at a different place, like giving people reassurance that they're a bit of an inconvenience, which means that yes, that he's not preyed on them. Yeah. Uh-huh. So, May 7th, 1972. He is robotic, like him being like, Oh, I know exactly what move to make that a normal, a quote-unquote normal helpful person would do. That is, oh, do the sigh, check the watch, say, Oh, I guess I could squeeze you in. So well thought out. Yeah. And another thing he does is as he gets like comfortable in his killing, he does things like he leans over them to make sure that the door is shut.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

So like he's being helpful, like he's just, oh, I'm just making sure like you're in there. But what he's actually doing is he's got a chapstick in his hand and he's dropping it down the back of the handle. So if they go to pull the handle, they can't open the door. So he's not locking it at the side where they'd see, he's putting something behind the handle, and then they can't open the door. How fucking terrifying is that? So terrifying. But it's disguised as something helpful. Yeah. Yeah. Although And I don't think he would do that. I'd be like, don't fucking lean over me. Yeah, so I think he'd be like, Oh, you didn't shut the door properly. He's got a chapstick. And then you'd work one to me right now. I'll get you in the car. Jesus. Sorry, yeah, that's fucked up. Anyway, so yeah. That was horrifying. My time. Sounded like um fucking Kathington. My May 7th, 1972. Kemper sees two girls hitchhiking. They have a sign in their hand saying they want to go to Stanford. He calls them, and I quote, a pair of petite dolls. Sorry, petite little dolls. That little piece of shit. So he says he picks them up because he wants to see if he could resist hurting them. Oh my god. Also, imagine being one of these many people that he's trialled on. Yeah. I got in the car. And I think I could have, if this had been a year down the line, if this had been a week down the line, would I have been a victim as opposed to just a test subject? Yeah, I think he I think I wrote it somewhere, but if I don't, I'll tell you about it later. But I there's certain things that actually they know people that are he decides who survives and who does not decide based on certain things. But like appearance. Or things they say. It's yeah, so I'm pretty sure I wrote it because I was like, what the fuck? He would see me and be like, this little boy. This little boy. I'm not picking that boy up. A little boy can stay there. Marianne Pesch, 18 years old, and Anita Lucessa, also 18 years old, both were Fresno State students. Kemper picks them up and he tells them he's going to Stanford, which he is not. Yeah, he ain't going fucking anywhere, just driving around in circles being a fucking gremlin. Yeah. He then just he then drives them to a remote location and Lucessa was sat in the front and Pesh was sat in the back. Kemper manages to cuff Pesh in the back. No idea how. And then gain control of Lucessa dragging her out of the car and putting her into the boot.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

And obviously locking it behind him. He then jumps into the back seat with Pesh and attacks her. So he stabs her repeatedly and he cuts her ear to ear and says it wasn't as easy as he thought. He said the this is horrible. He said the knife was really dull. Oh so the first few times he tried to stab her, it like went against her and threw her into the back of the car, but didn't do the damage. I know. Oh and the friend. And then, oh, this he really this really pissed me off. He literally says, so like when he literally says, I had just gone through a horrible experience killing her roommate, and I was in shock. Those were his words. That was a quote from him when explaining how he then moved on to Luchessa, who was still alive in the boot and probably just heard everything that happened to her friend, or heard loads of noise and didn't know what what had happened. Because you don't know 100% what's happened. Something's happened. Something fucking bad. He then opens the boot and lies to Luchessa, saying that Pesh has has a broken nose because she was like being mouth or something, and he'd broken her nose. So come and help your friend. So she I think she goes to get out, he then grabs her from behind and stabs her repeatedly in the back. He then, I didn't write this down, but he then says he she like manages to turn around and her top has come undone and he can't possibly stab her in the chest because he can't stab her breasts.

unknown 14:37

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

That's fine then. Stupid winker. He then chucks them both back into the trunk, and Lucessa is still actually alive when he shuts the lid. Yeah. He then transports their bodies home in the trunk of his car. On the drive back.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Is he like cleaning up and stuff? Or is he just let's meet down? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Because surely there must be blood all over the car and all over you. But I don't know. On the drive back, he gets pulled over by the police because he's got a broken taillight. Do you know what he does? He says to the officer, he says, Have a look in the boot and see if it's a broken or loose wire. What? And the officer says, No, no, don't mind. Just fix it when you get home. Isn't that fucked? And then he said, I don't know what I was thinking. I was like, if he looked in the boot, I would have just killed him too. Oh, okay. Yeah. That was because that was my next line of questioning was like, was it because he wanted to? I think he was doing a double bluff. Like trying to be like look how helpful I am. He was like, Oh, thank you so much, officer. Maybe it's just a broken wire or something. Should we have a look in the boot and see if we can fix it? And the officer was like, I'm not fixing that for you. I'm just telling you, like, yeah, but it's a real strong. Yeah. You have to have a real level of cockiness to think that you can double bluff a police officer. He's been mirroring them this whole time. Everything he's done is. I hate to fucking break it to you. You probably know he does this so many times throughout his kill kill killing spree. What like taunts it. Is so close to being caught by police officers and then is constantly just charming his way out of the situation. I just think that if you're pulling anyone over, you should look in their boot. Yeah, fine. She's already done it. Even if there's not even a valid reason to pull them over, just look in the boot because like you never know what you're gonna find. Like you can see in the rest of the car, just look in the boot. Just look in the fucking boot. Just have a little look. Don't trust them. Look in the boot. Just like every time, be like, don't even tell people why you pulled them over. Just be like, I need to look in your boot first. Yeah. And then be like, your wing mirror's hanging off. Do you know what I mean? You're speeding slightly by two miles per hour. Like, I just don't. You're just like willingly not looking in the one place that you can't see. Yeah. And also at night. So I guess if you look into someone's car at night, it's quite dark, so maybe you wouldn't see blood. Don't know what colour his upholstery is. There might be lots of factors that you know. Yeah, I'm not sure. But yeah, it becomes a running theme that he is quite literally in their faces constantly in his kills, and yet they never catch him. I feel like sometimes as well, that's the not like obviously for the victims or for anyone else, but for him, that's a better position to be in. Because it's like you can see what's going on all the time, and he's probably taunting them, but also working out how thorough, how stupid people are being, like how little they care. What are the right things to say to get yourself out of the situation? Yeah, and if if he's if a police officer's already seen him that night and something happens again, he'll say, I've already pulled him over tonight because of a broken tail light, and he just said, Be offered to look in the boot. Do you know what I mean? Like you're covering your own tracks by being in broad daylight. Yeah. Also, who's that brazen? That's the thing, isn't it? Who is that brazen? And that is why I didn't really sound like he had the worst time when he was in the psychiatric wards. So he's probably just oh worst case I go back there. And yeah, he's so fucking woe as me. Yeah. It's yeah, it's like I j you know how you know how a lot of people have a lot of hate for BTK. Yeah. Because they're like, he's fucking whiny and he's a prick. And obviously, like people think that about a lot of serial killers, but like BTK tends to get it in the neck. I feel that way about Ed Kemper. I think he's so fucking whiny, he takes no responsibility for anything he does. And the more we go through the story, the even worse it's gonna get because he's just it's actually ridiculous. Also, and he's constantly blaming Mommy. Yeah, and luck-wise, I wouldn't want this luck. No. But for him and what he's got planned for his life, he's a lucky fucker. He's a lucky fucker. He's getting away with everything, he's getting let off, he's he's busy mates with everyone inside, they're letting him in on all of the juicy tea, like he's having wanks all day in and day out, like literally just what is he like? He's just all he's doing is just dossing about and being like, Oh, get let off the hook, this guy doesn't care about what's in my boot, no one's paying attention to me. Oh, I just got expunged as well. Everything's going fabulously for me. Like, it's why are you working? Yeah, you're taking other people's lives and ruining families, and you are getting let off the hook time and time again. There's literally a quote that I have at the end, like when he's in prison, and you're like, it is gonna make it's gonna fucking it's gonna make you see. It's gonna make you see. Yeah, I just I feel like at the end of the day, you're gonna do it. I can't stop you. Don't be like, my life.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

It was all mummy's fault. So hard. And mummy didn't love me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

And that's it, really. Mummy didn't love me, but you know, her fault. Yeah, yeah. I might have taken the family cat that everyone loves and took that life. They didn't have to make mine harder. Two of them, by the way. One because it liked your his sister more. Yeah, actually, what a baby. What great reasoning that is. Yeah. Okay, yeah. Uh the officer never discovers the bodies. So Kemper takes the bodies home.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

He photographs them, and then he dismembers them, decapitates them, takes off their arms and legs, and he then has sex with the body parts and the head. Oh my god. Oh my god. Yes. In his mum's house. Yes. Oh my god. Yes. This becomes part of his MO really quickly. Why the fuck is she? Also, you've obviously wanted to do this. You've obviously really wanted to do this. No one just stumbles on that planet. Those were your first two kills. Yes. And if he's been saying, Oh, I've been waiting for ages to find the right person, then you choose two fucking people and you do all of that. That's it was so hard, it was so exhausting. Like, why doesn't Lou Chesser understand that I've just had a horrible time killing our roommate? Yeah. Because she stopped screaming in the boot for five minutes.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

Yeah. And then I got pulled over at the end as well. Like, actually.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

And I got away with it. Despite the fact that I had two bodies in the boot. Yeah. It's disgusting, gross. The next day he calls in six sick to work. He goes. Oh, I hate this man. Now you're mad. Now she's fucking angry. No, because I'm like, you want to do that, fine. But just just oh, just he doesn't even think that he needs to go in to work and just play out. Yeah. Like the fact that he's oh that's such a hard day. I'm just gonna have to call in six to work because this is just so exhausting. Yeah, you dismembered two kids. Yeah. Two people just on their fucking travels. Fuck off. Yeah. The least you can do is just try and cover it up and go back to normal and not be like, my arms. Literally. Just like a And thick. Yeah. Yeah. So he calls them sick to work and he goes to the woods and buries Pesha's body without her head. He then goes to a different area to dispose of Lucessa's body and some other incriminating pieces of edit evidence and then their heads. And at this point, he decides to change the way he kills because she found it tough. Yeah. Yeah. He found it really tough. It's actually taking its toll on me. I might have to just think about a little bit more of an efficient way that I can get a few more of these in the bag. Basically. So after the first murder, he says that the fights with his mother get worse and worse. Of course, it's her fault again. So probably because she's like oh I just don't know. And she would say things like she hadn't had sexual relations with a man for seven years and say that it was Ed's fault. Yeah. Dicey. Weird.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

I don't know why they keep talking about that.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

And I just feel like they're both quite toxic. Yeah. Him more. Yeah. I'm still on Clan outside. But yeah. Do you think there's really any need for you to just go about your day saying, hey, child of mine, I haven't banged anyone in a long time, and it's your fault. Yeah. Because you're fucking 6'9 and you're taking up my house and you're doing weird things. And maybe it is his fault. Yeah, yeah. I just feel like you talking you could say instead, I haven't got as much of a social life. Yeah. Because you are. I don't think she's emotionally intelligent. That's what I'm getting from Clarnell. I don't think I think that she's like probably misplacing her anger at him the same way he's misplacing his anger at her. I wouldn't have a lot of emotional intelligence left if I'd pushed out a 13-pound baby. Yeah. And they've killed their grandparents. Yeah. I'd be completely emotionally unintelligent. I think my brain wouldn't work again after I'd pushed that out. I wouldn't be letting that back in my house, if I'm completely honest. Not after the 13 pounds, let alone the grandparents. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Yeah, so. Yeah. He basically then starts to use this and say it's the fights with his mother that sends him out onto his next kills. So he has a big fight with her, and yeah. This time he becomes far better prepared. So he basically brings a kill kit now. And that includes a gag, a gun, a knife, and some handcuffs. Yeah. Also, let's just remember. So this next one is 14th of September 1972.

SPEAKER_02 24:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

He's not got an expunged record yet. Why has he got a gun? Why has he got that gun? Yeah, Bru really said, my purse does not matter. Yeah. And they said, You're right, Blood. He doesn't. You're actually a pillar of the community. Yeah. Don't mind? Give that man a gun. Yeah. So anyway, this one is sad. They're all very sad. This one is a fucking this one's a child.

unknown 25:05

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Yeah. Oh, so it's the 14th of September 1972. Akiko Ko is 15 years old. Ko was hitchhiking to a dance class. She'd actually missed a bus, and that is why she had chosen to hitchhike instead. Kemper picks her up and she gets into the car, but she realizes he says she realizes quite quickly that he is not taking her where she's asked to go. She tries to reason with him and says she is going to be late for ballet class. And he tells her, You're not gonna make it tonight.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

And he said and he reassures her that she will be okay all the while knowing he is going to kill her. So he's basically saying, I did a nice thing because I um I made it seem like she would only miss ballet tonight. But she'll be back for the next one. Yeah. What's even the point, mate? Yeah. He's driving and he pulls the gun out and she freaks out, as you can imagine. So he decides to put it away again. And that does calm her down a bit. She's not like freaking out as much as she was. So then he Yeah, because she probably feels like, oh, if I can say put the gun away and he puts the gun away, I might have a chance at talking my way out of this. Yeah. And so he then has to get out of the car for some reason, not really sure why. And he accidentally locks himself out of the car. Wanker. With Akiko in the car with the gun. Yes. Yes. So she's in there, the door's locked, and somehow this fucker manages to convince her to open the door and let him back into the car. I know, but he's so smart. I know she's a danger as a fucking kid, she's terrified. I know.

unknown 26:58

I hate this man.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

And she probably doesn't know where she is or what she'll do or how to get to anyone. So she's probably just, yeah, that's my best option.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

And he's I know it sounds really stupid, but he somewhat reassured her before that that he's not going to be like, yeah, yeah. He just needs to take her somewhere else to die, and it will be back to normal. And when she said put the gun away, he said, Okay, I'll put the gun away, just calm down. And she's saying, I'll probably reason with this man. Yeah. Anyway. Also, like, she's just landed herself in a situation where she's got a gun and she's threatening a person. And she's 15! Yeah, like it wouldn't take much for you to stop me from doing that. Do you know what I mean? I would be like, I don't want to be in this situation either. Just take this away from me. Yeah. He gets back into the car after she lets him back in, and he then strangles her to death with a scarf. He then goes through the new normal things and he decapitates her. So does he take her home? The next day, he had to go and see a psychologist to be reevaluated, and that's what leads to the November letter from the psychologist. So he literally makes it. A Kiko's head is in his trunk. Oh my goodness, gracious man. While he is being reevaluated outside the psychiatric. That psychiatrist probably ate her fucking words. Can you imagine? Yeah. Can you even imagine? Do we know the name of that psychiatrist? I didn't see it. Yeah. I think it was, yeah. I know it was different than the one that brought him out. The there was a female psychologist in the documentary. And she said, she was not one of them that did that, but she said, it pains me that he was cleared by two. Yeah. Pains me. If someone is like that obviously it's this these people's professions to see errors and to see To me, he sounds robotic as well. Fucking pseudoscience, innit? I'm joking. I don't know. I don't believe in psychology. But I just to me he sounds robotic. Like it sounds like it's been practiced, it doesn't sound real, it doesn't sound authentic, like it doesn't sound emotional, it sounds like he's just literally embodied taking bits from other people and he's just like spouting them back out to answer. He's a sponge, yeah. The human sponge. But he's obviously very good at imitating the emotion. Sorry. If your IQ is that high and you are m adopting people's mannerisms anywhere that you can, if he can't fool you, it just must be. Also, they have not come across this kind of predator before. Yeah. Like the people that are like the people that they've seen, they're starting to see the serial killer and they're starting to see like the narcissist and the sociopath and all of that, but they don't when he is in hospital from 15 to 21, they don't totally understand what he is or what is happening in his head. And they don't know what he's up to right now. Yeah, they just have no idea, but it just must be like such oh I don't even know. Just finding that out later on and it being like, oh, that was the day before, which means he probably showed up with her head in the truck. He did show up with her head in the truck out. Yeah. It's just that would crush. And also, like you, yeah, I mean I guess it's the day they decided to be expunged, but again, search the fucking car! Yeah. Search his car. Yeah, I know. Anyway, always search a man's car. Yeah, always, because they can't be trusted. So yes, they're in the meantime, the bodies of the victims are beginning to be discovered. So the two earlier victims have been found. Some assume when the bodies are being found, when the bodies have been found, that these are actually to do with the drug t trade because of the brutality of what they've done to them. Taking off the arms and the legs and the head. It could be seen as keeping the an identity thing. Because he's putting the head somewhere else. Yes. It would obviously he's doing that because he knows that it would be harder to although Luchessa's body, the heads are nearer Luchessa's body, they're not with it. Yeah. And neither is the incriminating material. It looks like it's more than one person to do something like that to two people. Two people. Yeah. Well, also at this point, because you don't have a crime scene, you don't know that they're together. Not unless you find the heads. Yeah, you're just finding bits of body which you think. Yeah, I don't know if they have found the heads at this point. I think that they are they've just found the bodies. Yeah. There are no crime scenes, as I just said, and no evidence, and this only spurs Kempern to keep going. He said that lots of women this is it. He said that lots of women would get into the car. If they mentioned the killer that was harming these women, he decided that he would not hurt them. Because they can what go away and say Like they ain't telling all their other hitchhiker mates. There's no logic to that. Other than potentially ego. He says, because If he doesn't want them to say, I already knew about you. It for him, it wants to be like a complete shock. So if people are saying, Oh, I know about this killer that's on the loose, it's really bad. He's saying, You've spoiled my But if that was the argument. Surprised. If that was the argument, then you the argument would be that you if you mentioned the killer, he would probably have a better chance of absolutely surprising you because you're not going to talk to someone about it who you think might be the killer. Like he he says he didn't do it because he's them, I can't, that's too obvious. And it's yeah, but no one in the car would know about yeah, no one other than you guys in the car would know about that conversation. But he, I think that's an ego thing. I think that's a huge ego thing. Letting someone live. Like he's it's a power all of its own. One day you might know that I let you live, even though I killed someone else. Yes. That you sat in this car and you said, Isn't it crazy whatever you said made me not want to kill you anymore? Thank fuck. But like also a mind game, a manipulation game, a long time. Maybe he's just I don't understand. Maybe it it also, this is gonna be so gross, but I'm gonna say anyway. If they're aware of murder, they're not as innocent as he's potentially in his mind. Because it might just be like someone's going off to ballet class and they've just hitch a live, everything's fine. But if they're saying, Oh, I've heard about this massive serial killer and he's ugh, don't know about murder. Yeah, that's gross. But yeah, potentially, I think it's a power thing. Yeah, I think he gets a thrill all of his own when someone mentions what he's done to him as if it couldn't possibly be him, which means he's assimilating so well, but he knows, he knows that he is that monster that they're talking about. Yeah, and I think he's saying, Watch, I can let you go if I want. Yeah, yeah. Like my your life is in my hands, and I decide when you live. Yeah, and I've decided you live because you know my infamy. Yeah, yes, exactly. Yeah, and then he's thinking years down the line, if you ever f if I ever get caught, you'll know. You'll know that you were this close to losing your life. And that's but what's a different kind of power over someone. I can let you go. You sat in a car with a serial killer and I decided you could live. Is more it's more terrifying in a way because it's like saying that this person hasn't got an impulse that's taking over them. They decide. He's saying, yeah, he's saying I can look at you and say, not today. Yeah. Choose it. I cho- I've been choosing it. I can keep it to myself and let it go as much as I like. Yeah. Gross, isn't it? Yeah. So now we go to January 1973. Cindy Shaw is 18 years old. He picks her up and he's supposed to take her to her mother's house. I couldn't actually don't know if that's true. I couldn't tell whether it was supposed to take her to her mother's house or he was planning on taking her to his mother's. Anyway, he picks her up.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

To be like, look, Mum, I can hang out with the mother.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

Yeah, I don't know. Anyway, he then forces her into the boot and then he shoots Shaw sh in the head. He then checks her vitals to see if she's alive, and she's not, so he just leaves her body in the boot. He brings her body back to his mother's house where he dismembers and decapitates her, usually that's what he's interested in. He's not interested in prolonging someone's death. Oh no, he so I not understand, but the effort of the first murder oh it was such a faff. I just want them dead. He's not interested in the murder. He's not interested in their body. He's interested in their bodies. Yeah, he's interested in necrophilia and decapitating and dismembering. Yeah. He doesn't mind how they go. It's not about some serial killers being like, you want to look in their eyes or something. He's not in it for the torture. No. He's not in it for the long haul. He's in it because that's until they're literally dead and decapitated. That's the only way that they'd be willing. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, he does his usual ritual. He then disposes of her body in the ocean, but he buries her head in the backyard facing up to his mother's bedroom window. And when asked why, he said, because mother always wanted people to look up to her. Isn't that fucked? This is actually all also really risky behaviour because he could have been easily discovered, but he said that that was part of the thrill.

SPEAKER_02 36:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

He said that he at one point had her head in a camera bag and walked past a couple on their way, like down the stairs, and he talks about being jealous that they were going off on their date. Yeah. Isn't it great? He's so gross.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

He is gross.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

At this point, the media names him the co-ed killer.

SPEAKER_02 36:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:56

So across from the courthouse in Santa Cruz was a bar called the Jewelry Room. Ed used to hang out there because that's where the police would hang out. So he was what's known as a wannabe. So just like he wants to get in with the police. He wants the power, he wants the authority, but also probably just wants to listen out to see if they've got anything. Bingo. Yeah. So this is it. He wants to, he is a wannabe. He wants to be one of the police. He wants to listen to their stories. He's also smart enough, and he talks about it in the documentary, to know that you don't inquire too much about the case. Because that's interesting. Like people go back and they do want to know and they want to get involved in the case. So what he does is he goes to the bar where he knows that the police are, and he just pays attention. Is he lets them talk and he buys them drinks and stuff, and he just has conversations with them. Obviously, a serial killer in their town is something that comes up very easily. Like hot gossip at work, that's all you can talk about, isn't it? Yeah. So all it takes is them to come to the pub and have a few drinks, and they're probably like, oh, that's Ed. He's been in no, what's his name? Yeah. Ed. Yeah. I was like, wait, what? Yeah, like they're like, oh, that's Ed, he's always here. Like he's just one of the guys. And then they can like he can prod, but he doesn't have to push too hard. And if they move away from the conversation, they move away from the conversation. He's still getting what he wants because he wants to be in with the police regardless of what they know about him. But they're probably letting things slip. But at the same time, even if they're not talking about this case specifically, he's listening to the way that they operate. Yeah, and he's learning about their mannerisms and how to react in. So even if they're talking about like a DUI or something like that, the next time he gets pulled over, he's gonna know exactly what to say of how to not get in more shit because he's retaining, he's sucking all of the information out of people everywhere he goes. And even if he looks like he's having a conversation with one police officer, but someone else is talking about the serial killer, he's gonna be tuning in because Bro's smart enough to be able to be faking it one way and listening to something else. And understanding input. Yeah, I do that so often. I can be in the middle of a conversation and listening to another conversation. She'll be listening to everything that's going on, and she'll be like, she'll notice if something's amiss without anyone saying anything. She'll be like, I noticed a vibe. I also have to, sometimes I have to tune out other conversations to try and listen to because I sometimes I don't mean to listen, and yet I have to force myself to to not be listening to someone else's conversation while someone's talking to me. Yeah. Whereas I, if someone else is talking near us, I will literally switch over to them because my brain can't not, I'll have to I'll still be focusing on one thing at a time. I just might be like talking to you but getting really distracted by something. Yeah. But Tanisha will be able to listen to four different things. I'll be listening to their conversation while we're talking about it. We'll have a whole conversation and then afterwards you'll be like, Did you hear that? And I'll be like, oh, we were literally having a conversation. You'll be like, Yeah, I know I was there, but also I was listening to this other thing, which is why it confuses me so much when you stop on your phone. Yeah. Because you've never ever been I don't know why I didn't. And then just like randomly you'll just I think actively choose not to respond. I don't think like not just you. Like when I sometimes I think sometimes when I go on my phone, I just ignore people. Yeah, and I feel like as well, whatever's maybe you're just going on your phone because you're like, I just if you asked me what you said, I've probably heard it. Yeah. I've just not responded.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

Yeah, it's just sometimes I'll be like, do you know what I mean? And then you'll just be like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

And I'll be like, what is happening? Because usually she does. But then to be fair, you will come back to the room and be like, Yeah, anyway, what was I saying? Yeah. But maybe you're just going on your phone to be like, everyone's sharp as a. Yeah. Did you hear that? That was I think that was my neocross thing. I'm getting scared. Anyway, at least you don't have to drive home tonight. I'm glad you. Yes, so he's buying them beers and asking for information the police might have about the killer, but he's not prodding too much and he's like getting involved in the conversation. Anyway, so that's something he's known for. So the plea he's known to the police. He's known to be a bit of a one-of-e, and they like know him, and that's like good vibes. Anyway. Basically, the police do end up at Kemper's front door after the murder of Cindy Shaw. So four in this spree so far have been murdered. I think that's right, yeah. I thought you were gonna say four months after. So when you said four and then just stopped, I was like, Oh wait, no. What's happening in this inception? Yeah, four. Oh no, it is four, yeah. And then the 15-year-old. Why do I say six then? Because it's definitely Oh no, it is six, and then there's two more. Yeah. Oh yeah, because of the grandparents. Yeah, yeah. No, there's that well technically there's ten. Cool. We'll get there. So basically, they police do end up at campus front door eventually, as I don't really know how, but they realise that Ed has a criminal record after he's been talking to the guys in the drawer room and an expunged criminal record, and that one of the people are probably like, why is he always there? And they feel a bit dice because they know they also know that he has a 44 magnum registered to him, and they're like, I don't think he should have that with his convictions, previous convictions, even if they are expunged. So they're like, Okay, what we're gonna do, it's gonna go to his house, we're gonna confiscate the gun. Wow, okay. Yeah, don't know why, but they do. And maybe they just needed a win. After all, it's not fine. Yeah, and they're basically like, we feel that he should not have been able to purchase that because of his previous convictions. Yeah, and the way that he's got in with us as well feels a bit sus, so let's just try and read it. So they also read his physical description and joke about needing multiple officers to get the gun away from him. So what they do instead is eventually they send a junior detective to Ed's house to speak with him and correscate the weapon. So the junior detective that had to go is like talking on this documentary. I was like, I was fucking, I was worried. And it's just him and one other guy that go to go and speak to Ed. Anyway, they basically they end up staking out the wrong house, and it's the house opposite Kemp's because they somehow got the wrong address. I was so convinced that they were doing something good. Yeah. And they see Kemper. He comes up behind them, and a shadow just comes over you. It is almost like that because basically they see him working on his car opposite, and they're like, No one's come out of this house for ages. We should ask the neighbours about who lives there and stuff. So they go over to him and they say, Hi, you okay? Can you get out of the car? And he's yeah, and he gets out of the car and he's fucking enormous. And they're like, Are you Ed Kemper? And he's like, Yeah, I am. So basically, they realize, yeah, as soon as he stands up that this is who they've been looking for, because who else is fucking 6'9? And they're like, We're here for a gun to confiscate a gun, you shouldn't have the gun, blah blah blah. And Kemper says, I'm sweating because I actually have multiple guns. So he has a 44 Magnum that's in the boot, right? He has a 22 that's under his driver's seat, it's not registered, he has a cupboard full of weapons in his house, and next to those weapons is co ed ID. IDs from the girls that he's murdered. Goodness me. Yeah. So he's sweating and he doesn't know what gun they've come from. Yeah, he's oh yes, my gun, of course. Yeah. 20. Apparently he says something that's oh yeah, the little one, or a joke like that, and he's like and then they're like, Yeah, we'd hope so with a 44 Magnum or something. And then he's thank fuck. Oh he's such a because it's in the boot, and it is not the gun he's been using in the killings. That's the 22 that's under the front seat. I'm supposed there's not a fucking body in the boot at this point. Yes, but don't worry, babe, you get the you get it out of the boot, we'll stand right here and not look in the boot. So then what happens next is the way they describe it, I don't write any of this down, but I remember it perfectly because it's actually wild. The way they describe it is because it's like normal procedure to do this, so they say to him, like, can you open the boot then and let us see the gun? They you get him to open the boot and they decide to split either way. So one officer goes either side of the car and stands at the boot, right? Yes. And then they ask Kemper to open it, so he opens it and then they ask him to step away, and then one of them looks through the boot and finds the gun, and then they confiscate it.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:11

Later, Kemper says, Good thing you split either side of the car, because if you hadn't, I was just gonna pick up the gun and shoot you both. Isn't that fucked? Why? Just because he just was like the rest of the time. Was just gonna just in case they wanted to look through the rest of the car, maybe, or they asked to go to the house, or they saw some blood in the boot. He's saying when they're with his two police officers stood together, yeah, it's more threatening. Yeah, I think with the two stood together, he could kill them both. He wouldn't have been able to kill them both opposite sides of the car in enough time, so they probably would have got him. Killed him because obviously than that, just going to bed every night knowing that you could have got shot by a serial killer, yeah, and just because you'd stood on a certain side of the car. Yeah. But because he was really cooperative, they just confiscated the gun and they went away. Yeah. No search. And do you know what? If they'd just played their cards a little better, he might have stumbled and let slip that he had a different gun. He just got really good. Or if they'd said you shouldn't have had this gun, we're now gonna search your car and your premises for other people. But if he'd said what the little one, say what one do you think it is? Yeah. Or do we say, does that mean you've got multiple? Yeah. Anything. Yeah. Other than being like, Yeah, the 44.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

The only one you've got, am I right?

SPEAKER_01 46:31

This effort to confiscate a gun off a randomer that's just been expunged. I don't even I didn't I couldn't even quite tell how they got there or why they got there, or what I guess it was maybe that he just made himself very known to them and then they like looked mad up and found out he had a record. And they were like, Oh, we'd best get rid of that one gun that he definitely has to try and save some lives. Yeah. Yeah. Meanwhile, the relationship between him and his mother is growing more and more volatile. There is one incident where he grabs her and throws her to the bed while threatening to kill her.

SPEAKER_02 47:06

Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

Yeah. Kemper's mother was an administrative assistant at the University of Santa Cruz, and at this time fear is growing, and they are trying to keep students safe because it's students that are going missing. She just have no clue. Surely she knows, bro. Surely. Yeah, I d I guess not, or maybe she did, but we will never fucking know. Yeah, maybe she was So she might have suspected. Yeah, we will never know. So basically, to keep students safe, the university issues university stickers to tell students which cars that they can trust to hit. Ed Kemper has one from her.

unknown 47:48

Fuck me.

SPEAKER_01 47:49

Yeah. February 1973, after another stupid how it's a fucking dumb idea. Who can't peel off a sticker? I guess maybe they're inside the car. But also, who how do you know that? Yeah, why would you mark them as safe? I think it was maybe university staff. Yeah, yeah, but on one hand you're saying trust no one because it could be someone that gives us all this information. Why do you, yeah, on the other hand it's saying, but I trust you blindly. But why do you think that you know that they're not a staff member? Yeah, exactly. You just don't know that. It could be literally anyone in the world. So you saying I'm gonna put the sticker on my car, the person that came up with the sticker idea could have been the fucking serial killer. Do you know what I mean? It's just not really the best way to go about it. If I saw that sticker and I was a murderer, I'd be like, I'm gonna get that sticker. I'm gonna get that fucking sticker. Yeah, that's not. And now everyone's gonna be like, get in that car.

SPEAKER_00 48:38

Yeah, just make another sticker.

SPEAKER_01 48:40

Yeah. Make a fake version of the sticker. Yeah, it's just like it's such a yeah, that doesn't what does that mean? It's like me saying, you'll never know I don't know. I don't know, I've got enough. Yeah, this means I'm safe getting my car.

SPEAKER_00 48:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:57

Says who Also weird, don't have a sticker. I don't know. Just maybe stop picking up H. Yeah. Although I guess if you know you're safe, then like maybe you'd prefer them to get into your car, but anyway, I don't know. February 1973, after another huge fight with his mum, he goes to her university campus. And there he picks up Rosalind Thorpe, 23, and Alice Lou, 21. They don't know each other, he picks them up separately, sees Rosalind Thorpe first, I believe, and then Alice Lou just after. Both women get into the car and Kemper begins to drive. Halfway down the hill, he slows down the car and says to both women, oh look at that view. Like full of mice and men. Do you know what I mean? And then he then shoots Rosalind Thorpe in the back of the head while she's facing the other way. And then he turns straight to Alice Lou. But obviously, she's heard the shot at this point and she's seen Rosalind Thorpe die. She's moving a lot, so the first shot goes through her hand. The second knocks her out. I don't even know what that means, but she's not dead. And the third goes through her forehead. But she's not dead. She continues to groan. Good God. Yeah. So you know what he does? It's gonna be another one, Amy. He covers the body as up bodies up with a blanket and he carries on driving. But do you know what he has to do? He has to get through a police search. Oh my so there were two officers looking into the cars that were leaving the campus, checking as they go.

SPEAKER_00 50:39

He's actually doing it on campus.

SPEAKER_01 50:41

On campus. And the way he frames it is he said, I just had to decide like what I was gonna do, how I was gonna get through this checkout. So what I did is I like looked at them and I was like, I gave them a look that says, You fascist pigs. So he's like staring them out, and obviously because he's fucking massive, they just looked in and then were like, and then walked away from the car. The one of them, one of them, two blankets covering the seats, one on the front, one on the back. Got two girls' bodies underneath them. One of them is still alive! Still making noise. Yeah. Yeah. Fucking wild, isn't it? And they're not like, where were those gunshots fired from five minutes ago? He gets away. They don't find the bodies.

SPEAKER_00 51:22

I'm actually just blown away now.

SPEAKER_01 51:24

And he once again brings them home. I was wondering a minute ago, I was like, why would he not just wait till he was off campus? But then that means that police would have seen him with them. Yeah. Yeah. And he's smart enough to know that. Isn't it terrifying? Yeah, and it's probably because it's harder to find people on the streets because people aren't trusting people. People probably aren't leaving the the campus as much. I don't know. And they're probably just random hitchhikers because they know that there's a lot of things. If you're looking if you're hitchhiking on campus, like with a sticker with the sticker. It implies that you've been i you have to go through a fucking police check. Like you you think that you'd at least make it to that. Yeah. He brings them bodies home, he dismembers them, the usual, and then he eventually dumps their bodies, and then he admits that eventually he goes back to the bodies after the fact to remove the bullets so that he could not be traced. Yeah. On April 20th, 1973. Yeah. Ed Kemper's mother returns home late from a party. It said that Kemper. How dare she? Yeah, it said that Kemper went into her room and she said actually fuck with Clarnell heavily. I suppose you're gonna want to sit up and talk all night then.

unknown 52:43

Elameo.

SPEAKER_01 52:44

Elameo. He just said no and then left the room. That was probably the fucking final straw for him. Well, don't belittle me. Yeah. You don't know what I can do. Oh, what if I did want to talk? Yes, we're not never gonna talk again. Yeah. Talk at her while she's dead. Yeah. He's fucking so self-absorbed. Yeah. Sorry, that's actually really funny that you've just said that. So while she slept, Kempa then attacks her with a claw hammer and he then cuts her throat. What's a claw hammer? I think it's the wait, let me show you a picture, but is it not the claw end of the thing? But like you have hammers without the claw. Yeah, I think it's that. Which is terrifying.

SPEAKER_00 53:26

Yeah, that is terrifying.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

Yeah, he attacks her with a claw hammer and then cuts her throat. He later decapitates her body and humiliated her corpse, engaging in sexual acts with his mother's head. Yeah. How do you tell me? He then apparently screamed, put the head on a mantelpiece and screamed at it for over an hour. He's telling the people that he threw darts at it and then he smashed her face in.

SPEAKER_02 54:06

Oh my fucking god.

SPEAKER_01 54:08

Yeah. He also cut out her tongue and vocal cords, and then so that she couldn't fucking tell him off anymore. And then he said he did that, and then he tried to put them down the garbage disposal, but the garbage disposal had spat it back out. Didn't work. And he said that seemed appropriate as much as she bitched and screamed and yelled at me. It was like coming back to have another go at him. But like at that point, you've already decapitated her, mate. Like you don't have to cut out her tongue. He then hid his mother's body in a closet and went for a drink, a local bar. By himself. Obviously. Who the fuck's going with it?

unknown 54:48

Actually.

SPEAKER_01 54:48

So after the body would offer if you're a bit nicer. Yeah, if you're a bit fucking nicer. After killing his mother, Kemper invited her friend Sally Hallett over to the house for dinner and a movie. When she arrived, he strangled her and hid the body along with his mother's. Why are you doing that? I would just be like, no, sorry, love, I ain't coming around. Yeah. So he basically then leaves.

SPEAKER_00 55:14

Just makes no, like, I know that none of it makes any sense.

SPEAKER_01 55:18

No. But I guess like it was always eventually gonna come down to him killing his mum. Yes. Because he clearly has some fucking. Has a problem with her. And women in general. But then to just also be like, what was he like? Ugh, that just didn't scratch the itch. I'm just gonna invite her best mate round as well, just to put another one in the bag. Actually, I have no idea what the reason is for killing that woman. I literally could not tell you why on earth. Also, she's not been mentioned at any point throughout this. I didn't see anything about Sally. In her his childhood. Yeah, or she was also someone he referred to as domineering. If that was gonna be the case, then surely he would have killed his sisters as well. I maybe he couldn't. And maybe once he'd killed his mum, he knew that. He this says it was to further destroy evidence, but I he definitely invites her over.

SPEAKER_00 56:10

Yeah, and what do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 56:12

Yeah, so that to get rid of witnesses. I I don't maybe he maybe when it says get rid of witnesses, it was because she could attest to their volatile relationship, and that maybe it would be like she'd be like, he didn't. Or he'd be like, it wasn't me, but Sally would be like, no, it was fucking him. Yeah, because he was seen their relationship. Do you know what I mean? And then he calls the police and he's like, I killed my mum. Yeah. Literally. So then that's like working out who that was. Yeah. He then leaves some bullshit note for the police that says how the murder was quick, and I can only assume that he was talking about Sally, not his mother.

SPEAKER_00 56:53

Yeah. No, because he hit her with a hammer before even fucking yeah, talk off now.

SPEAKER_01 56:58

You do not have the right to dare tell people that that was quick. That it was quick. What you did to your mother was definitely not quick. Like, Sally, yes, probably quick. Still takes three minutes to strangle someone. And then you're still like, and I it was quick, but the reason why it took so long after for me to call the police is because I did have to scream at her head on the mantelpiece. At least for an hour. And I did try to put her fucking vocal cords and tongue down a garbage disposal.

unknown 57:26

Eee.

SPEAKER_01 57:28

Yeah, so he then drives a thousand miles away, taking fucking caffeine pills to drive straight through the night. So he can get far enough away to hand himself in. To call Yeah, to hand himself in. So then he thought he was the focus of a nationwide manhunt, which is why he'd fucked off as far as he could. And he didn't know how to. No one even noticed, bro. But the bodies hadn't even been discovered. Like, no one even noticed because you have made your mum have no mates. You are the reason that your mum doesn't have a social life. The only mate she had, you also killed her. Yes. For some reason. Basically, she hasn't got a relationship because you're a psychopath. Yeah. She hasn't got many mates. The only one that she has, you fucking bind off. You've just murdered. Yeah. So no one's found her because no one knows that she's gonna be a chance. Because who's gonna who's gonna say that she's missing? Yeah, you ruined her marriage. After one night. She hasn't had sex in seven years because of you. No one's coming around to check on her in the evening. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. And he's once again, it's all about me. Yeah. He's probably getting this thrill out of the chase, like he's like pretending that every car that's overtaking him on the carriageway is actually. So I obviously got really bored at this point because then I just put anyway, he wasn't being hunted, so this is when he goes to the phone both and confesses. Yes. Authorities initially do not believe him. Oh. Yeah. So they didn't believe him about his mother found until they're not the address. Yeah. Until they go to the address and they're like, oh fuck, okay, yeah, he was telling the truth. Yeah. And then they didn't believe him. It's it sounds like a joke because it sounds so wild that someone will say, I'm at this location. Also, they didn't believe my cry. He would do it. Because they knew him. They're like, not our old geezer that helped us put some other people away and get people diagnosed. Not the fucking giant that's been living in the jewelry room with us for the last couple years. Like he couldn't possibly. Oh my god. And that's so crazy because if they really don't think it was him, yes, he did kill his mum, and it's going a bit too far at that point because you're exposing yourself. But like you didn't have to admit it. You've got away with it right up until now. So what is the reasoning for you to maybe he's just Oh yeah. That wasn't half as thrilling as I thought it was gonna be. Clearly, I've done everything I need to do now. So he actually has surrendered on April 24th, so that's four days after the murder in 1973. And then once he's in custody, he just admits to everything he's done. He folds under zero pressure. Yeah. Yeah. So that's loves it though, doesn't he? He does he fucking loves it. He loves saying, I've already thought about this. Yeah. And what I've decided to do is I've decided to have myself in so that I can help you guys. I'm ready. I can't be a policeman, you won't let me, because I'm too tall. So what I've decided to do is instead to become a serial killer so that I can help you understand the mind of other people just so. I do not doubt that is something he would say. That verbatim could have been out of his mouth.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:26

Because that is exactly who he is, and he is so fucking full of himself. And basically, he is obviously tried with multiple counts of murder, and then he tries to go for the insanity defence, but he is found legally sane.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:43

While going through the process of talking to psychologists to cleanse him. Yes. But he was within control of his faculties. If he's intelligent enough to pick and choose what people say and don't say to make him murder them, you cannot go in and say, I'm just a crazy man. Yeah. It's the voices. It's this, it's that. No, that's calculated as fuck. Yeah. Yeah, literally. You can't convince me you decided all of this. And also that evading the police, like all of the slight of hand that you did, so that you could get away from all of those situations. That is not someone who's insane. No. You're very aware of what you did. Heading down to the bar to find out what the police know about you and pretend that you're nothing. Like, it's calculated, mate. You're cocky and you're calculated. Yeah. It's disgusting, but you can't sit there and say, and I think you have to be there has to be something going on up there for you to want to murder a person. Oh, you're not fucking right in the head, but that doesn't mean you're insane. Yeah, otherwise every person that killed a person would be able to plead insanity. Just means that your wires are wrong. It just means that you just don't value human life. Yeah. You think that you are above the law. When he's talking to psychologists, when they're trying to declare him sane or insane, Kemper admits to cannibalism. Oh no! However, he does later rescind that. Such a horrible vision. Yeah. I don't doubt that he did that. I really don't doubt that he did that. The tongue coming back out of the shooting just being like, I guess I'll just get it. Yeah. Apparently he's cut slices of flesh off thighs and stuff and eat it. But yeah, he uh that he did eventually recant it and say he didn't do that, but like at this point, mate. What let's just throw it on the pile.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:28

Why are you even yeah what I just don't know?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:30

He then begins to waffle shite, which is exactly what I wrote, and imply that he blacked out when he killed and a different personality took over. Fuck off. If you can literally remember everything that you did, you've got lit personality does not work like that, babe. Like you cannot remember. You can't remember. It's like literally it only has to be that when you're what is that sentence in he had it coming, and she says, He only has himself to bleed. Yeah, she says, When it was only when I was washing the blood off my hands I even knew they were dead, and that's her adamant thing that she's yeah, I probably did it. I didn't do it, but if I did it, yeah, it's like the How could you tell me that I was wrong? Yeah, exactly. Like the just just don't come in and say I can give you every single detail about how I planned and calculated and did things, but then I just blacked out when I did it. So am I really I just blacked out. You can't blame a man for blacking out. Yeah, it's like just say it with your chest, yeah. If you're already gonna say, look at how smart I am and look at how good I am at what I do, you can't then say, but it was my old Tarigo that did it, really. So am I that bad? Yeah. He then won 80s and says, Do you know what? I'm a bad man. Give me the death penalty. Oh, he's gonna be a big thing. And then he says, Let me die by torture. Fucking pick me bitch! Literally so insane! It's like so insane. It's like he's so worried that people will stop talking about me. Yeah, he's next thing, oh, I didn't get enough, I didn't give it give me that kick that I wanted it to when I murdered my own mum and decapitated her. I'm just gonna also murder a friend. And then I'm gonna be on a big car chase, even though no one's chasing me. And then I'm gonna have myself in and I'm gonna I'm gonna go with pleasure because and then I'm gonna say, Don't worry, I'll help you and I'll help sort out all of this stuff. You're not listening to me! Yeah. Maybe it was my alter ego, have you ever thought about that? You weren't listening to me. Okay, do you know what? Just kill me. Just kill me. Do it like torture because that's what I deserve. Is anyone listening to me? And obviously they're like, no. Yeah, we're just No, we're not gonna do that. Like, we made this mistake before of falling for your bullshit, and look where it got us. Yeah. Six more bodies. And capital punishment had been suspended in California at the time, so there was just no way that they were gonna give him the death penalty.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:48

I also think the whole manhunt thing is It's because he can't have a wankover argument with his mom because he's already killed us.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:55

And he was like, I can't really get away from this one because they're gonna figure out it was me. So he's manhunt, this is gonna be a big epic story. Then he's like, wait, they've not realised I'm gone. What do I do now? And then he's like, come get me! Yeah. Because he wants the infamy of this, and obviously he's got it because he's fucking Ed Kemper, but oh my god, just fucking get a grip. Give it a rest, lad. Give it a rest. Do you know what, mate? No one asked. No one fucking ass. Yeah, literally. You know he's still alive. He's gonna fucking hulk out of that prison cell. No, it's fine. Yeah, so he uh yeah, he was.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:40

Let me show you. Let me show you. I don't know like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:43

Also, I what I've wrote for the Instagram is to put his most recent mug shack, because fuck me, has he aged poorly? There others haven't got skincare routines in prison. Um eating skin really doesn't give you that glowy look you're after. Yeah, he requests the death penalty, he says, torture me, and then they say no. So they give him eight concurrent life sentences. God for ten minutes. So he just he yeah, he goes to prison for the rest of his life. That's it. Yeah. So Kemper remains incarcerated at the California Medical Facility in Vacaville. I don't know if that's how you say it. Some Faceaville? I don't know. Whatever, that place. He was actually in there along with Charles Manson and Herbert Mullen. Apparently, Kemper hated Herbert Mullen. Mullen was the serial killer who killed 13 people and said that in doing what he did he'd stopped earthways. He's insane. Because and this is what he said. He hated Herbert Mullen because he thought he was a cold-blooded killer who just killed people for no good reason.

unknown 1:06:51

What?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:53

He's the least self-aware human being I have ever experienced.

unknown 1:06:59

Oh god.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:00

And that's coming from a world where Donald Trump exists. Yeah. And like it's it just always blows my mind. Like sometimes I'll say things, right? And immediately I'll think that's so hypocritical. Yeah, I just said. And then what I have to do is I either have to be like, I'm aware I do that too, or I just have to be like, stick with your guns here because they don't know enough about you to know that is such a hypocritical thing you've just said. Do you know what I mean? But you have a you're can you not hear yourself? I don't think he I really truly don't think he can. But like he hasn't even sat back and said, This is why I did it. Yeah. It I think he maybe the closest thing we can get is that he thinks he can in turn help the police understand serial killers because he said, I'll step into the shoes of a serial killer for you guys, and then be able to in the future provide you with information on how to catch them. Like he's doing a service to the police. That's probably the closest thing that he's giving off of his reasoning for doing anything. But still, to say about Herbert Mullen, because he thought he was a cold-blooded killer who just killed people for no good reason. What's your reason? Yeah, exactly. And even this guy's saying it's because it stopped earthquakes. That's a bit more He thought it was doing the world some good. At least he wasn't wrong. Yeah. At least he was trying to come up with some reason for this. Whereas, like, this geezer's not telling you. You just did it because you had a couple of fucking rows with your mum. Yeah. Is that a good reason? And basically he's saying that every single action of his can be put down to the fact that his mum was shit. And it's so you're just putting the blame on someone else. You're not even saying that what is going on with him? He's so contradicting. Yeah. Oh, I hate him. Yeah. It's so, it's so fucked. So during his imprisonment, he was participated in those interviews with the FBI profilers, which led to the coining of the homicidal triangle. So the bed wetting, the fire setting, the killing animals.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:53

Triad, I think it's called. And words like spree murderer, serial killer, and the categorization of offenders based on their motives. So like sexually motivated, or and all of that Kemper was a part of. So was like Manson, though. Kemple, I think, was a big part of because he's so smart and it was and so forthcoming. So willing to cooperate because he thinks that he's getting a thrill out of being wanted or needed. Needed. And feeling important, and that people are listening to his side of the story. Yeah, exactly. And that's obviously when John Douglas is like. And he wouldn't have been a serial killer if it wasn't for his mother, which is bullshit. And it's like, cause can cause can everyone just remember that she is not here to argue her. Literally. So can everyone stop giving their fucking opinions of what would or wouldn't have happened if she'd not done this or that? Because he killed her. Yeah. And she was the only person left that was still giving him the time of day. And whether she was abusive or not, that is still the fact. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck him. Like, yeah, I just I think a lot of parents pass on a lot of trauma to their kids and yes, she probably didn't deal with it in the right way. And yes, maybe she wasn't a great mother, but to some degree. But at the same time, like she did fucking put a roof over his head after he took two people's lives. Yeah. And also she definitely just lived in fear the majority of her life, and she had no mates and she had no connections. And also, I think very very important, she was fucking right about him. She was right about him. So John Douglas, you're saying it wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for her, which came first, the chicken or the egg, because it seems like there was some shit going on when he was younger that was at least she was present. Yeah, and then you fucking coined the homicidal triad after people like Kemper. So surely in your own theory, you're saying he was destined to be a killer.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:38

Yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:40

I don't know. Anyway, yeah. Conversations with Kemper allowed them to break into things that make these killers tick and what drives them to help predict when someone may offend or like who the offender is. Kemper also recorded audiobooks for blind inmates. So you can actually listen to him in audiobook form if you would like to. No thanks. And that is the end of Edmund Kemper. He's still alive, as I said earlier, and he is fucking terrifying. Yeah, yeah. I've seen a picture of him, but I need to see like a picture of his full body. Yeah, and yeah, he's just fucking huge. Look at him there. It's like a fucking someone's put him on a stretch pad. Oh my god, he's literally the height of the bars. Yeah. And Edwin Kemper now. That's him now. Yeah. David, you're not looking well. Anyway, yeah, that's him. I really take back me saying that when my car broke down this morning, I should have just hit you. Yeah, so I just do not, like, do not. It's not worth it. No. Some people were literally laughing at me when they were driving past. That's fucked. That could be you. I know. I think it's because I was just like stood in the sun with my sunglasses on just while my car was smoking next to me. I feel like they were laughing, like, oh, look at this deal. But I was literally like, do you want this off? I'm having a really bamboo. I'm having a really bad one. Yeah. But that's us. That's Edmund Kemper. We did, but these are actually quite meaty episodes. Like, I was worried that they would be a bit short, actually, because I'd split it into two, six pages. But that seems to have worked quite well. Real opinions. Yeah, we've always got real opinions. If you're not here for them, I'm sorry. I was like, I wonder if my one's gonna be a two-part, and then I was like, yeah, we'll be. We fucking yap away all the time. And now we're gonna have a beer. Yes. Oh my gosh, yes! We're gonna have a beer. We're gonna have a beer and some pizza, and then we're gonna come back and we're gonna do I won't say it actually, because we'll announce it.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:40

Another episode. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:42

And yeah, you'll be listening to these while Amy is flying high.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:46

Oh no, I'm on holiday, baby.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:48

So that's why we're doing quite a few. Yeah. Fat stack. But Nisha's also on holiday, she's just getting rest. Yeah, I'm just gonna lie down. Yeah. I'm gonna lie down and switch my phone off so people can't message me about work. No, I'll literally. I probably just I think what I'll end up doing is obviously I'm reading that alchemized, which is like a thousand pages. You need to just have a 300 pages in. I reckon I'll have finished it by Monday. Yeah. We love you. Bye. We're gonna talk about home games now and again.