A Dingo Ate My Baby Part Two

This week, we’re continuing a story that refused to stay buried.

In Part Two, we dive deeper into the case that captivated the world and divided opinion at every turn. As the investigation unfolds, the focus shifts and so does the narrative. 

We’ll explore the mounting pressure, the courtroom battles, and the way public perception began to harden into something much more dangerous. Evidence is questioned. Motives are speculated. And the line between truth and assumption becomes harder to see with every passing moment.

But this isn’t just about what happened in the outback, it’s about what happened after. How a story can take on a life of its own, and what that can cost.

So grab a drink, settle in, and get ready… because the deeper we go, the more unsettling it becomes, and the answers are anything but clear.

Transcript

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welcome to Kill the Moot podcast. We're here to talk to you about everything. Spooky Doy. We are not professionals and we mean no offense in anything we say. This is just us trying to make sense of the census. Without further ado, this week's case is a dingo, ain't my baby? Part two, part two, Part two, part a second part two. Yes. The, this is the fourth and final episode of the evening and. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Do you remember when we were out and I saw my friend the She is yeah, and we were wearing grapes and Alex. Basically it's 'cause I knew ab was friends with Abby, but that's her youngest sister. Sister, yeah. And we were talking to her for a bit and she said that she finds our voices really soothing. Oh, thank you. Yeah. She was like, I find it so soothing. And I was like, that's so lovely. That's so funny considering what we're talking about and also how aggressive me especially gets sometimes I dunno that I would assume that this is soothing for anybody. No. Yeah. Like we are talking about some scandalous things, but she was just like, I just find, she was like, I find your, like your voice is really soothing. And I was like, diva, thank you so much. And then I was thinking like, the amount of times that I'm just like, rah, did I tell you about the curse talking to someone I dunno if I told you. Basically she was talking to someone about podcasts and then she was like, yeah, my friends have a podcast. It's called Kill the Mood. And he was like, oh my god, my girlfriend loves that podcast. What? Yeah. And then who just some guy that works at the shop what the hell? He was like, my girlfriend loves that podcast. He was like, are they thinking about making merch? 'cause they think they should make merch. Yeah. Yes. Isn't that cool? That is cool. Yeah. Isn't that cool? Yes. So yeah. Thanks guys. Like we are actually yeah. Do you think he was just making that up? When we went out, that's when we like met. Obviously it was someone, Amy new, but they were like, yeah, we we, yeah. I was like, we're getting there. We love your, we love the pod. And it was like, oh my God. Wow. Just a reminder even though we're not like, we don't seem to be like skyrocketing in views. The people that are. Listening, consistently listening to us is like very consistently listening. That's who we're doing it for. Also, we do have to remember that we, I say we don't put a lot of effort in. We do because we research and we put podcast episode out as consistently as we possibly can, but we don't push. Yeah. For where we are, the audience we have, and that there's people that are like talking to, talking about us. Yeah. That we don't know. It's sick. That is sick. That's the first person I've known that doesn't know us. That doesn't know us, to tell someone that they think we're good. Yeah. And it just so happened that they were in conversation with. Do you think realistically I know this person's girlfriend potentially? I dunno. Yeah. 'cause I'm more likely to know them from Yeah. Not me. It's definitely not me. Unless they went to uni here. Yes. Potentially. Potentially. But yeah, I feel like most people that listen to us know us I dunno. We're starting to get a little bit, yeah. Yeah. I don't think so. I think we've got like a hefty little. Because some of the first ones that we get that listen to us are like Canterbury. Yeah. And like London and stuff. And I actually couldn't tell you who it is that we know in London that's consistently listening. Like as soon as an episode comes out, then we have f and I'm like, it's fucking Lewis and Ham. Yeah. Like I know that it's them. Yeah. And Alex and Cora and stuff like that. But yeah I don't, I think there is actually like a decent little, yeah. Fun. Love that. Thank you. Let's get to it. So we finished off the last episode just after the police had raided the Chamberlain's house. They had originally been searching for the scissors. But they found some liquid. Yes, it could have been blood. The story was that they'd picked up a hitchhiker that was bleeding, that was confirmed as true. But the blood didn't match the hitchhiker. So the media was popping off and the police were saying, oh, it must have been azaria's then. How you get to that, I don't know. But also, I guess if you're looking for blood and then you find blood and then it's not who they say it belongs to, it does look a bit suspicious. So around this time, the police start doing some digging into their past. They actually managed to get in touch with Azaria's pediatrician from after she was born. And this doctor raises some issues that they had to come across. They said that when Azaria was first born, Lindy would come in all the time and continuously say to the pediatrician that Azaria was really not well. And she apparently would be quite persistent with the doctor. So I think when the doctor would be like, there's the results are fine, and people would be like, you don't know what you're doing. Yeah. It sounds like that. And the doctor said that, so the doctor would come back and just say there was nothing wrong with her at all. And she didn't know why she was being so dramatic. So this was happening loads and loads of times. And after several times of this, she came back for a checkup and Lindy so Lindy came back in because the pediatrician had said, come back in and let me check again. And Lindy came in and said, she's fine now. And I'll just stop pestering you. However, this was the first time out of all of the previous appointments that the doctor was actually concerned about Azaria's health. Okay. She seemed malnourished and hungry and less healthy than the other times. Interesting. Yeah. But Lindy had really chilled out and said that they just didn't need her help anymore. Apparently it wasn't enough for a cause of concern to actually report it at that point, but they were gonna keep an eye via checkups. Yeah. Persisting for more checkups and stuff. Obviously, that this is around the time that they went on their camping holiday. Around this time, due to the blood and the past info about Lindy's sketchy behavior, the courts were keen to crack on with a homicide case because literally just from this bit of information, they had now decided that she was neglecting her child. Which means because there's blood found and there's previous history of potential neglect of blood that isn't attributed to Rosaria with any definitive course. Yeah. And potential neglect. Potential neglect in malnourishment after she's been coming in for months and saying, help my baby. There's something wrong with my baby. And then them saying, no, your baby's fine. And then them saying, actually we do think she's like a little bit more underweight than we'd like. Yeah. And then her saying, no, actually I think she's fine. Yeah. Okay. I'm on board. Yeah. Lindy actually because of this, was charged with murder. That's insane. Yeah. That is insane. With Michael being an accomplice, that helped her cover it up. This was the story that the police thought had happened and were justifying why they've arrested her, right? So they were convinced from her clothing that the blood and the blood on her clothing, that Lindy had been out with her daughter and slit her throat with the scissors, the s that they haven't found. Yeah. Which could have been for sacrificial purposes. Yeah, sure. Hence her name being Azaria because she's religious. Yes. Yeah. This was earlier in the day of the 18th on that hike. Then cut up her clothes. With the same scissors. With the same scissors, and left it for evidence. Yes. They said she hid her body in a camera bag and buried her. Why? Why did they think camera bag dunno. Okay. Not fucking, oh, actually I do, I don't know why they thought her body was in a camera bag, but there was a camera bag apparently being reported when they gave another person a lift to the campsite. This girl, I didn't really write anything about this 'cause it was like, not that deep, but like they were like asking her loads of questions later on when the court case happens about did you touch the camera bag? Did you look inside the camera bag and all of this stuff? And she was like, no, I didn't look inside the camera bag. There was just a camera bag in the footwell. And they were like, that must have been the camera bag that after they dropped this girl, random girl to the campsite, they must have used it to put the baby in there. I don't know why. I think the camera bag was just something that was with them the whole time and then they couldn't find, have it after. I dunno. Okay. Yeah. And then they buried her, her and Michael drove back after, which is where the blood was transferred from them into the car. That was azaria's blood. Then where in the car was the blood? Do we know? I think it was in the backseat, right? Somewhere in the backseat. Okay. In the, maybe it was in the passenger seat, actually, because, yeah, it was in the passenger seat because they do a deep dive into it later on. Oh, and they were pointing at something in the footwell of the passenger seat. Okay, fine. Which maybe, I guess if they were gonna pick up a hitchhiker, they'd. The kids and the mom were in the back. Yes. And Michael just had him in the front while he was driving. Weird choice, but yeah. Yeah. You put him in the back of the kids with the kids. Exactly. Like I was already like, would you pick up a hitchhiker with three little kids, but kids in the car? Yeah, you do. You boo. It's the eighties, I guess ever. All sorts of going on in the seventies, sixties seventies, eighties. Yeah, it's like the wild west. Yeah. Then they like drove back to the campsite, hence the blood in the car cleaned themselves up and then they went to the camp for dinner. The baby was a pretend bundle in the evening as a setup. Lindy then took her to bed, laid out the bloody blankets from earlier in the day and then would scream and say that a dingo stole her from the tent. It didn't matter to the police that some statements from friends and campers literally said they heard and saw the baby that evening. The police in Australia itself were just sold that the dingo didn't do this. I don't understand that. It's so crazy, isn't it? I do understand that human memory is flawed. I think if multiple people tell you that someone, it's a lot like, the case where, have you ever seen it and it's like basically there's a show being shot at baseball game that gets a man off for murder. Yes. Yes. And he's convicted. He is. The, his brother is like in prison. Or something for a murder that he committed because of a girl that testifies against him that's out of prison, right? Yeah. His brother in prison, maybe Dunno what this is. Yeah. His brother's in prison for a murder that his brother committed and there's a girl out and she testifies that he did it. Yeah. Then the brother that's out of prison. So the girl is murdered. Yes. And the guy that's out of prison is accused of her murder and they have no evidence. And they have witness statements saying yes. That he was not there. Yes. And they do not believe any of them. Yes. And it is just so happens. He says, I'm at a, I went to, I took my daughter to a baseball game. He, they asked the daughter about the baseball game and she's six. And they're like, don't believe her. Yeah. Ask the mom. Don't believe her. Fuck it. Don't believe any of them. So it just so happened that a TV show Yeah. Was being shot at the stadium the same day. Yes. And they troll through footage and footage and they find him Yeah. And his daughter at the game. Yeah. And if that had not happened still, that man would've spent the rest of his life in prison. Yeah, it is. Because they refuse to believe. Witness statements. Yeah. When it choose, when it, when they've made their mind up they've made their fucking mind up. Sometimes they're the most important thing and a whole case hinges on what a witness has said and other times they decide discredit it. And witnesses can literally be shouting at you. Yeah, exactly. What happened. Yeah. And obviously with this, they can just about get away with it because no one knows exactly what happened. Lindy isn't even sure exactly what happened because she can't tell you where the dingo went and she can't tell you what happened after. Yeah. I can't if it is true, I can't even imagine like having to watch a fucking animal, wild animal steal your child in front of you. Yeah. And then the rest of your life be trying to prove to people that happened in front of your very eyes. Yeah. It's just no one gives a fuck about what anyone else thought. No one gives a fuck about what they saw, what the people around them saw. Like the police are just like, it's bullshit mate. And they just make it bullshit. Yeah. They just do everything they can to make it bullshit. This is another thing that kind of tips people over the edge as well. So the trial was taking ages to start. Apparently it's because someone was coming from England, I can't even remember who it was, but like someone, like a coroner person or whatever, or forensic guys surprise. Or maybe it was one of the people that, like the photographer that found the clothes or something like that. Yeah, someone else traveling at the time. But was someone twatty I think, and they don't seem twatty, but someone's coming from England, but he wanted to watch the cricket or something. So the trial didn't start for ages and that's literally what it was. Jesus. Yeah. Oh sorry. Don't mind taking some time outta your day for the murder of a baby, but yeah, fuck off. Anyway, during the time that this trial had taken to start, Lindy and Michael were at home awaiting the trial, and Lindy had discovered that she was pregnant. Okay. Yes. Which I cannot imagine went down within the media. No. By the time the trial had started in 1982, she was seven months pregnant. Oh, okay. People in the crowd were selling and wearing t-shirts. There was crowds like crazy shit, like obviously pull up in a car, get walked all the way up the stairs to the courthouse, like everyone was like covering her or whatever. She's really pregnant and she looks absolutely rough, but still hot though. Don't forget. Oh, don't forget. At least she's hot. They keep commenting as well about like how she's in a different outfit every day at the courthouse. Yeah. She's, God forbid she chases her fucking clothes. I know. And she's you change your shirts every single day in the courthouse, but no one's noticing you're changing a white shirt for a white shirt. Yeah. Like I was wearing dresses, so fucking what? You catch me every day at work, I'm wearing a different outfit. Yeah, exactly. What the fuck? Yeah, just that's dumb. She just, even if she did it mate, she could not win. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Anyway, people were selling away. The reality is it doesn't matter if she did it. Yeah. It just doesn't like, it just doesn't matter whether she didn, it was a media trial, like they had decided her guilt from day one makes. That's where I watched this, because there's that whole series on Netflix that's called Trial by Media. Yeah. Maybe. 'cause I'm sure this would've been in, maybe, or I thought maybe it was a podcast app as well, but Yeah. Yeah. It's also just massive, isn't it? Like it's misinformation as well. Because like I do think though, the last time I heard the story, I thought she did a. And it's so hard because Yeah. And that's what's making me feel she is peculiar. Yeah. Some of the things she does is peculiar. And I, I watched something that was very pushed towards the fact that she was guilty. Know that she was innocent. Innocent, yeah. And that she was misjudged and that she was an unfair trial of It was Yeah. Injustice. Yeah. But that's just what I've watched and I purposely tried to ignore the media, whereas people that Yeah, were reading it in the newspaper. Were fully, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna find an A, find a documentary that's from the other perspective. And then the next time do an episode. I'm gonna, I'm gonna debate, I'm just gonna write like a few things down before we start the episode and say this is what, yeah. This is what they say in their app. And then we're just gonna quickly maybe we'll make it a small app. That's 20 minutes, half an hour long and it's like the roundup and it's like us. Just like getting, because to be honest, right now, what I'm struggling with is like how are they believing? Yeah. How are they like I, there's just nothing that I've heard so far that's made me be like, yeah, she did it. Yeah. It is so weird. I don't know. And like I did read a bit about it afterwards as well and I was still like, you're not giving me anything concrete. Yeah. Like they were so fully convinced and at the time they were like, you can't tell us what happened. The clothes are cut up looks like it's cut up by a person. Yes. Like the dad was so chill. Like they are suss things. I'm not saying she's not suss. Yeah. Like she is a bit suss, but I just I think it's again, me doing this thing where. It's a woman. Yes. And I just feel also, regardless of what you believe, she is not getting a fair trial. Yeah. Oh, she's not made, she's not getting, it's not fair. Not fair. So she's not being treated fairly. Like she's not been given, she's not been given the joy of innocent until proven guilty. Like she is, she has been the point of this since the moment it started and no one has ever given her grace to say maybe a wild animal did attack and kill your child. Yeah. And that's not fair. Yeah. 'cause you should get, if it fair, you should get that at least for a moment before, before things start to divulge that become, become like, okay, wait, that's suss. I don't think you should ever be at a point where the line of questioning until proven a line of questioning is completely gone. Yeah. Like where you do not consider a possibility where she's innocent, that's not fair. There's no way that someone gets a fair trial. If you do not consider the other option. Yeah. For sure. Of the other options from the minute she walks into that courthouse, like it's all a media, it's a media trend, yeah. Like people are there for the hot tea. People aren't there to really weigh up the evidence and see what happens. People are there to say, this mysterious, sexy woman who's a bad mom, and also stop fucking saying shit like that. Yeah. Like this woman coming in, in her new fits every day, being a neglectful mom. Like even if, even if you can't prove that she did it, she was still a bad mom and she's still, someone has to pay for this justice. It's a baby. Like, how dare you? I was having this conversation with PD the other day where I, like we were talking about defense attorneys. I dunno how we got into this conversation at all. 'cause it's completely irrelevant for the work that we do. But like we were talking about defense attorneys and I was saying like, there's just something that I find so sleazy Yeah. About defense attorneys because I understand it in a in the way that people need to have a fair trial. I understand it in like family and household or but I understand it in criminal law, like I really do because there are plenty of people that go to prison for things that they did not do. It's the ones that get off for things that they didn't do. Mate, you don't have to tell me if you didn't do it or not. I'm gonna get you off anyway. Even though they're done getting done for I know what we're talking about. We're talking about broad touch season two, where they're like, they won't put the guy on the stand. Yeah. 'cause they know he did it. Yeah. 'Cause they know his son and they're defending him, killing a child. And they like, I'm pretty sure he did it. And she was like I hate that. And I was talking about John Wayne Gacy because the guy that's, it's Phoebe Walla Bridge. She's the like second Yeah. To the defense attorney, isn't she? Yes. I do remember, and I was saying like about John Wayne Gacy, because I was saying like John Wayne Gacy goes to his lawyer and he admits everything and that man still defends him after he knows ins and outs of what he did. And the defense attorney in Broad church, he's only really doing it like, because like they're going head to head the defense and the prosecution confusion like. They're just doing it at some game. Yeah. And like obviously it's, that's not real. Yeah. But watching them and and she was like, and the way that they're, this person killed a fucking kid. Can you just back off when did we get to the point that it's okay, you still get defense when you've omitted Yeah. What you've done. Yeah. Yeah. Why do you still get that? Yeah. Because he's just changed his mind and said, I don't deserve to go to prison for this. And then she's yeah, okay. I'll do your case. Like the fact that John Wayne Gacy will literally turn around and say, yeah, I did it. And someone will say, I'll still defend though I raped and I killed no 33. Something like that. Young boys across years. And I buried them under my floorboards. But you are still, I telling, I'll tell you. Telling in the detail, telling that I did all of those things because I wanted to. Yeah. And you will still defend me. Yeah. That is sneezing so unbelievable. Yeah. And there is no good reason for it other than money. Like and a claim. Yeah. No good reason for the clout because if you can get someone out on my mega like that Yeah. Every single you, everyone will want you as their defense. Yeah. Like it's power hungry and it's like sadistic in a way. No, it's, it is because it's like you're being like, oh, imagine if I could get the worst of the worst off with all of this evidence. And someone who's literally admitted to it, it was same as earlier when it was like, ed Kempers looking for parole. And it's who the fuck is letting that man out of prison? Yeah. No. Literally. No. And you do not do what he does and then get out of prison. Yeah. And that's why it's oh yeah, fucking parole man. What the fuck? Yeah. Yes. there's people in the crowds, they were selling and wearing t-shirts that said The dingo is innocent. Great. There was, on the other hand, there was people in this crowd shouting support, but lots of them were so far down the religious trail that even that support was not really very reassuring either. It was either like, whatever you did because God wanted you to do it. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And it was just like, no, not protecting your innocence. Just saying your eternal soul is not damn. Yeah. She's gone with God and if God wills it, then that's what God needed to do. And it's being like, stop saying that. Yeah. So it makes it sound like you think they did it? Yeah, we sacrificed her. Yeah. Which a lot of people already think. So it was like a mess out there. Yes. Yes, it was massive. So the trial begins and all of. These people give witness statements. The coroner's report comes in, Lindy and Michael, the kids, the friends of the friends and family, and all of these people came forward and basically said there's no way they gave their full detail of the night. Yeah. They also said in interviews, again, I was listening to quite a bias Yeah. Towards them being innocent doc. But they say we were told to just answer the questions with yes or no answers. We weren't told to go into too much detail and nobody wavered. No. The, they were just being like, brief. Yeah. But because it had no proof of it not being foul at play, everyone wanted to like, get in on it because they, it just, for some reason, proof and testimony. Yeah. Just didn't seem matter, seem to matter at all. So the photographer and the random guy that had analyzed the dingo prints were also people that stood trial the photographer had said that he didn't think that the TV aired thing about the clothing was the same condition that he found it in. Oh yeah. He says in the documentary, he says it didn't look like it had been cut with scissors. It looked like it had been ripped, but it didn't look like, yeah, as damaged as they made out it had been. It was when they were all analyzing it on TV or whatever, but they, this is the thing because the police do lie. Yeah. Also, Lindy, they know lie, I dunno how true this is, but she was like, they showed me like later on, oh, it's a spoiler. I'll tell you later. Yeah. But there's like this thing about her talking about them dropping evidence on the floor in front of her. And she's are you fucking kidding me? Yeah. Like the, my whole life has been on live for years and years and years and years. And then you are Yeah. Finally getting something, it's just so stupid. Yeah. Anyway, the Prince Man that he's gone in and they're asking him these questions and he's saying yes and no, and yes and no and trying to like stick to the rules or whatever. And then they say he randomly says, it could have been Prince, they say, but it couldn't have been Prince walking away, could it? And he said out of nowhere. Yeah, it could have been Prince walking away. I dunno why it couldn't have been like the pri, like basically the police were trying to say that the prints were inconclusive on the sand or whatever. And he'd said no, they were conclusive. I analyzed it and I said, that could have been dingo prints running off in the sand. And also there was a little patch that looked like the right size that could have been Azaria being laid in the sand. Okay. And apparently this is the first time Lindy had heard about it. It's the first time that like anyone had heard about it, anyone about this. Because I think what had happened is the police had coached him into what to say and said, don't bring this up. Don't bring that up. And he thought, now fuck that. When I'm on the stand, I'm gonna say it. Yeah. Whether it is true Yeah. Is another thing. Because he might have just been like, oh, what would really throw a span in the, no one can ever say that he's telling the truth, but it sounds like he was being pressured into not saying anything. And then when he got to the stand, he thought, no one can stop me now. That's the thing about police as well, is they like, he can't really lie up in, in a court. Yeah. But they can omi. Yes. Yeah. So I think that's what they were saying, like the questions that you're gonna get asked if you just, when it's the defense. The defense for her. Yeah. Just keep saying yes or no. Yes or no. Yes or no. Do you know what I mean? Don't go into too much detail about anything. Yeah. And he's fuck no. Yeah. I'm just gonna say what the evidence that I found was because why wouldn't I? Why wouldn't I just be honest? Because when did court cases, this is the thing as well I think we were talking about how the fact that like in broad church, they find a truth and they twist it to fit their narrative. Yeah. But they all know it's not the truth. But the, because he slept with that girl, it fits. Yeah. They, it fits the narrative and you are like, it's so what? When did Justice become that? Yeah. Exactly. It being like, how was that justice? We can just jump on this thing and we can, at the end of the day, a baby has died. I tell you when it become that, because a fucking capitalism, because now anyone can afford a good enough defense. Yeah. That's why defense is like that. Yeah. Because there might be people that can't afford a good defense that actually didn't do it, because they need to know that if you are guilty of something, you, there can be a possibility of you having enough money that you do not have to pay for it. Yeah, exactly. That's why defense lawyers are as sleazy as they are. That's why, because the more money you can pay, the better the, like chances that people have. And it doesn't matter that you're twisting a truth. And we all know you're twisting a truth and you know that your client's guilty and that everyone knows that they're guilty. But, fine. It's about a popularity contest and it's about how much money you have and that is it. Yeah, a hundred percent. It's just, it makes me so sad as well, because at the end of the day, let's take away from the fact that who did it? A baby has died. Yeah. And because the media is so invested in this, you've made it this like crazy game to try and get everyone to, instead of just saying what we need to do is we need to work out what's happened here. Because it's really important also letting people for the justice of the baby that has died. Find out we're letting people wear those fucking t-shirts. I know. 'cause fucking teachers, a baby is dead. I know. Regardless. Regardless if you don't believe about fucking dingo. Yeah. What, why, and what we need to do as police Yeah. Is we need to find out exactly what happens so that we can avenge this death in the best way we can. That we can get justice, whether it's justice for Lindy or Michael, or whether it's justice for Zaria herself by putting them away. Why are you just being like, oh, I can't be our, it's just so obvious to them because it would just be too weird if it wasn't them and it would ruin tourism. 'cause people would be scared. So why don't we just convince all these people, they didn't really hear the scream and then just move on with it. Yeah. And then they're like, Jesus, the media love this. They better go down for it so that then at least they've got someone to blame. Like just do your fucking job. Yeah. And you might have found something actually valuable. Yeah. Yeah. Fuming. So he said all of that anyway on the stand and was like, good. Yeah, he's, he was like, anyway, they didn't take any of that in. Great. Of course they didn't. Yeah. Not important. Yeah. And it was the first time that the family had heard that, so it was like a really hard Yeah. Situation to be in. Then people were even coming forward saying that Dingoes had recently grabbed them around that time. So this was like people saying they grabbed their sleeves or grabbed their arm or grabbed food. Yeah. That's significant. They, yep. Significant. It's the same as grans. Don't eat humans. Yeah. Except in the parts of the Amazon where they are beginning to starve. Yeah. You're such a nerd. Sorry. I know you were like piranhas. They don't eat people and they don't frenzy the way that they do in fucking Piranha 3D. But in parts of the Amazon where they are beginning to starve or their food sources becoming scarce, they started eating people seagulls. Used to not steal food off people and now they're stealing willows. Yeah. Okay. And there will be evidence of it Exactly. In part one. Exactly. Yes. But yeah, they're getting more brazen when food, if they're getting hungry, they understand where the food is or they just are, they're just more confident that they used to be. Just because they didn't do it Yeah. Doesn't mean they wouldn't do it. Yeah, exactly. And the fact that people are coming forward saying look, they have been dangerous with me. Like I am literally a five foot whatever person. Yeah. And they only put my hands and they try to grab myself, but I'm not a nine month old baby. Yeah. That they could have actually taken away and again. Yeah. So there was also no motive, no weapon, nobody. Yeah. The prosecution's argument was all circumstantial. Yes. So was the defense, but there's no proof of anything anywhere. Yeah. On the 29th of October, 1982, they were both found guilty. Great. Lindy was sentenced to life in prison. Jesus. Michael was released the day after trial. Yeah. Seems fair. Because he apparently, somehow because they know this didn't do it, that helped her cover it up. And even if he did help her cover it up and didn't kill her, why he's let out the next day. I don't know. Yeah. Lin. Yeah. Yeah, my guess. Lindy actually gave birth a month into serving her sentence and went back to prison. Does that mean that her child went into protective services? Did it go to the dad? No, I think. Michael had the three kids. Okay. I think maybe there was like some other family member involved in this scenario. Yeah. Helping. Yeah. Because it was a girl. It sounds like they're all supporting. Yeah, that was a girl. It was a girl. And also there's these again, I watched a bias program, but there was like letters that her other kids had wrote in. One of them was like, I was literally in the tent when I heard it. The animal come in and my mom didn't do this, and just please let her out. Yeah. And stuff. And was like sending it into the courts, the crown court and stuff like that. Yes. She appealed fucking loads. Yeah. And loads. And loads. And she kept getting rejected over and over again. And I think she's fuming at this point. Yeah. Because at the start as well, she said that she just by the time she was going to prison, she was heavily pregnant. She was done in like she was depressed. Yeah. Exhausted. Yeah. She was grieving, sick of fighting. Yeah. She'd had it in the neck, like people were just being like really horrible to her and stuff. And she was just absolutely exhausted. And then she goes into prison and I think she's just my literal baby got taken away from me, and then I've just had another baby and that's also been taken away from me. Yeah. I'm fucking fuming and I'm not gonna get to be a part of its life. Yeah. So she's doing all these trials appeals. Sorry. She said that the public had given her sentence. Yeah. And that everyone, I think that's her that was in the room had found her innocent. It was just. The public and the police that wanted to take her down. She said people had already made up their mind before the trial had even started. Yeah. And that was that she goes in and she starts her life sentence until, okay, this was when my potential part two that was gonna be Yeah. Like my stop. But here we are. So one day in 1986, David Brett, a British man who had come on a hiking holiday to Australia. Whoa. We're heroes. Sorry. Yeah. No. To work that out. So he's come on hiking, holiday to Australia. He's headed to Aluru Rock for a camping holiday. Nice. He was really high up on the rock, on a stroll when he fell off and. Oh, sorry David. I thought you were gonna be a hero. Yeah, he is. Your death has served a cause. He's an avenger. Yeah. What an afterlife. Avenger. Yeah. Witnesses saw this and hadn't seen him land, but knew he probably had not survived this fall. Okay. The police were called and a search party went out to find his, where his remains had landed. However, when he was located, he had been dismembered and some of his bones were missing. The police were like, oh, fuck, 'cause this dingo. So they searched further, not interested in the flesh than I they searched further for DNA and evidence of his missing remains. They find lots of dingo dens on their search. And hidden in one of the dens is the white jacket that Azaria had been wearing over her onesie on that night, plus a dingo pack had literally ripped this guy to shreds and stolen his bones. So there is no reason that a nine month old baby would leave no trace because there wasn't a lot of him left. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Also, this sparked some data collection in Australia and apparently other people had been killed from dingoes, three people between 82 and 88, right? So a dingo ate her baby. Basically there was evidence that the clothes cut by dingoes from this guy can also very closely resemble cuts like scissors. Where, that's what I mean when I said how many dingoes have they tried the meat Exactly. Soup thing on. Exactly what you mean. What do you mean? It couldn't have been done by dingo. Exactly. It's so lazy. It's just, it's so lazy. It's them just literally making their mind up from day one and doing no official evidence. They cut open a few dingo and said, there's no babies in there, so can't be them. I just also, the dens are, I just need to, I just need to, why haven't I said this the whole time? Dogs eat babies. Yeah. So why wouldn't dingoes? I know, it's it's just like how many stories have you heard about a family dog attacking a, an infant or a baby? This is 80 as well, right? Is like they're being like, oh, could never. And it's like actually between 82 and 88, 3 people were. They're a wild fucking animal. They're brazen enough to be going up to people and annoying them, but they can shoo them off. But those are fully grown fucking adults. If yeah, maybe they shouldn't have left the tent. Askew. Yeah. But a baby starts to cry. A dingo is hungry and here's that. Nia goes into a tent and realize that is big enough for me to run off with. Also, you are assuming that there's only fucking one of 'em. Yeah. Because you're saying, how's it gonna carry it off? Multiple of them could very easily carry off a baby. Yeah. Also, I know that this is my only correlation, but when a seagull goes and takes some food, stop talking the fucking sea. It's one sea. I'm terrified. It's one seagull. And then they all, and fucking saw they come and warm. So you might, she might have seen one dingo take her baby. Yeah. And then all the rest of them are just waiting. And I know this is absolutely crazy, but to just rip this baby apart and just go off in their own ways, which is probably why they wild. You're not finding a whole baby in the dingo. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like they've ripped this full ass, grown man apart yeah. And they ripped him apart in the exact same way clothing had been. Yeah. When that happened. I'm So the way that it was explained was that he fell Yeah. And died. Like it was literally, I know. Not good. I'm sad that he did, but I would not want him to have alive. Yeah. I think people saw it. Yeah. Because he was up too high. Yeah. And said nah, bro, like he's not alive. Yeah. So their stories their previous evidence, which wasn't even evidence Yeah. Is literally falling apart, right? Yeah. This, no. So then the only physical kind of evidence that was left was the blood in the car. But because all the rest of this were, was spiraling the labs, reran the tests on the blood and it turns out it wasn't even blood. Great. It was fucking spray paint. Or some kind of other like oil compound or something. Yeah. So they said there's blood in the car. They said, the only blood I can think of is when the hitchhike had got in the car and maybe it's that blood. And they said, liars, it's not even blood, which means if you're a liar it must be your babies. And it was literally just some spray paint. They're saying they cut up the clothes. Dingo's teeth could done that. How much she gets outta prison. Yeah. Any slither that they had just out of nowhere gone. This was a huge case that spun out of control because of how out there it was. Yeah. So as we know, Lindy had ran out of appeals, so she couldn't really do anything after finding out this information. But after showing her this jacket and her confirming that it was azaria's, which they also dropped on the floor. Yeah. Even though they wouldn't allow her to touch it, to look at it because it was so important, even though it had been in the fucking dingo den for five years or something at this point. She confirmed it was, and then the Australian government had to get involved. Oh, also side note, the police had also way back when released to the media that because they hadn't found the jacket, Lindy must have been lying about it for some reason. So they were saying, oh, and they said she was wearing an over jacket, but we haven't found it anywhere. So where is she hiding that? Like what does, maybe she buried it in that and all of this stuff, like they were just saying that she must have been because she kept saying to them apparently. She had another jacket on. She had a jacket on. Just find the jacket, find, locate the jacket, and if you can find the jacket then maybe you'll find some of her remains or something. And they were just like, why does she keep going on this jacket bitch? You're clearly lying about something. That is absolutely baffling. Yeah. So then she had to be like, oh, like then the police had to be like, whoops, drinking, found the jacket. Yeah. Guess she wasn't lying. Yeah. So they accepted the advice of the executive council when they released her. So on the 7th of February, 1988, after 10,030 days in prison, like three years I think. Okay. Lindy Chamberlain was released and missing, what, two and a bit years of her daughter's life? Yeah, three years, basically. Three. Yeah. Because she was born quite, oh yeah. She was seven months, wasn't she? Yeah. She was born a month into being in prison. Yeah. So she literally, her kid was three, so she missed basically three years of her life. I think she was out of prison for a bit with her when she was first born because she was like looking after her and stuff. The baby's not. No. And her kid is in the documentary, I can't remember what, who she's called, but she's I was always told that my mom was my mom, yeah. And that she was gonna come back to me and we were gonna keep fighting Yeah. And stuff. So it wasn't like a surprise to me or anything. I think maybe if close family friend or something was looking after her. So are they did she stay with the dad? So they had. Th they were strong at the start and then they ended up getting divorced. Yeah. Around this time. I think it was just like she'd gone through too much and also she comes out with a fucking vengeance. Yeah. And she is I am livid. The public decided the public fucking absolutely crazy. Oh, it's not because this is exactly how would expect the public. I would like to go on record for probably the first time ever and say, I'm fucking sick of the public. I'm sick of you. I'm sick of your opinions. Also, I'm part of the public, but I'm sick of what it is that we do to people, the way that we like rip people apart and decide that we know best when we have no fucking clue. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And it's like really annoying because yes, we like to give our opinions, but what we've done is we've gone and done a lot of research before we come out here. Start getting mouthy. Yeah. Also, if someone can prove what I've just said wrong, I'll be like that. Fair enough. Yeah. And this is what I mean as well. What I'm. Getting is, a bit of side research, but also a documentary that is very like adamant on her innocence. Yes. But I still fact checked everything they said. Yeah. And it doesn't, my personal belief is that it just seems like too, it's all fucked stupid of a thing to, I think my personal belief is you won't get me onto the side that she's guilty. Because what I think is you never gave her a fair shot. Yeah. I, if she is or isn't guilty I actually much believe she isn't guilty now based on that last bit. But before that I, if she is or isn't guilty wasn't even the issue in my mind. It's that you never gave this one on a fair trial. Yeah. This is what I mean. There was no possibility Yeah. Of her convincing the world that she did not do this or. The police convincing the world that she did do this. Yeah. Because the media decided she did, and the police decided she did. And that was the fucking end of it. From day. From day do. And then nobody did the work that was needed to make sure that she didn't do it. Yeah. I think at the end of the day, like the people that you're supposed to believe is the people that are doing forensic analysis, the people that are doing coroners reports, the people that were literally there as witness and potentially the police. Yeah. Instead, the police have made up their mind since day one and they've helped the media make up their minds since day one. Yeah. And for some reason that just gave the whole trial there and they want every bit of evidence that did not suit their narrative. Yeah. You cannot do that. If a piece of evidence that comes in that doesn't suit your narrative, you either have to find a way to make it make sense in amongst your narrative, or you have to consider that your narrative is not right. Yeah. And if they've gone and hunted down a few. Dingoes and then they fed a few dingoes, some meat and cloth and they've been like, couldn't possibly be the same and we can't find the baby. So they must have buried it even though we haven't found the baby buried. Yeah. Like it's like asking one couldn't find shreds some meat and then saying a human couldn't do that with their teeth. Like it depends who you ask. It depends how they are. Everything's gonna be different every time. I'm not saying there isn't a pattern to the way that a human bite and a dingo but fuck off. Like you need to do better than that. Yeah. You really do. And to like, to send someone to prison so quickly for such little evidence. I feel like even if there was a part of me that was unsure, that believed that she did do it I'm, the more part of me is just fuming at the treatment and the real shit. Coopering that happened. Yeah. That. Yeah. And then the public decided to now have a poll vibe and it was 50 50 and some people were like, I believed her the whole time. Oh, of course you did. Yeah. This was a miscarriage of justice. Even though the majority of Australia did not believe her, like there was the tiniest quantity of people that were like justice. I don't think she did that. Her family. Yeah. And now it's 50 50 and people are like, God, you should be nicer to her. She's gone through a really rough time and fickle pieces of shit. Yeah. Literally just at least say it with your chest, yeah. Even though the majority Yeah. Didn't believe her back in the day and the other half was still fuming about the release. They were like, it's bullshit mate. I hope she fucking sues them all for slander. Yes. So this case was so huge and it was still up to everyone else's opinion. She'd literally been released and people were still Yeah. Voting online, fucking doing calls, like whether she was innocent or not. Yeah. And it, she's just guys, let me go home. Yeah. However. As I said, she's come back with a bit of a vengeance. So she lost her daughter. She was grieving, having a terrible time. The police and media decided her story was too wild, and then she felt the wrath of the whole internet, Australia and the world. She had people turning her story into humor. Then she had a baby in prison. Yeah. She spent three years in prison away from that baby and her kids. Then when she got out, her marriage had broken down and she was getting a divorce. This gal sues the Australian government. Good. Hell hath no fury. Like a woman school. Yeah. Take it down bitch. Yeah. She does a lot of public speaking saying that she doesn't want to take shit that as a woman, she had it worse than a man would've had, which is totally fair because her husband didn't fucking, and she also says that she's glad her husband didn't go into prison because she just wanted someone to still have to be with her kids. Yeah. But also why she get fucked up for it. And she does break down a little bit, but she does hold it together quite well where she says something like, I didn't. I just said to him like, I will take the wrath for this. Just make sure my kids are okay. And then she just have a bit of a breakdown because she's just lost one. Yeah. And now she's losing the other three, yeah. Yes, she says that she was treated unfair and unjust and that she doesn't want the Australian government or the justice system to put anyone else through this again. She goes through a whole lawsuit and she receives 1.3 million Australian dollars, which is half off Queen, about 70,000 pounds. If that doesn't tell you 700,000 pounds, sorry if that doesn't give you some inclination of in innocence. I don't know what does, because if I'd got out as well and I'd got away with it, I'd probably just shut the fuck up and go about my life. Yeah. Shut fucking piss off. But she said as well, I think she did write a book and she said something like, I know I wrote a book and that's a bit cheeky, which is sometimes I'm like, okay, you put her in prison mate. How she making 11? Yeah. And she said, I literally came out of prison and I was the most talk of the town thing. Yeah. She said, I wrote a book because I've got three kids capitalize on that and I'm a single mom. Yeah. She was like, I sued because I thought my kids need a better life than this. Yeah. I've literally given one of my kids a start to the game where I was in prison for the first three years of her life. I can't hate her for it. Yeah. And she, whether she did it or not, it was complete unfair miscarriage of justice, the way that her trial was treated. Yeah. Listen, regardless. I'm a feminist. Yeah. She was treated unfairly. Everyone deserves a fair trial though. Yeah. There's literally zero evidence against her. You just have to like, you have not proven to me even in the slightest that she had something to do with it. I'm not saying that she didn't. I cannot say that with any certainty. What I can say with full certainty is it was not fair and none of it was fair. You never gave her a, the a moment and also the burden of proof is not on her. That's what the fucking police are for. Yeah. And they didn't prove anything. Yeah. And the fact that she went to prison for it on the evidence that she did the Australian government, you should be fucking embarrassed. I know. That's insane. It really means that you are just sheep. Yeah. You that you let your public decide in a court of law because there was no real evidence. It must've been so hard to find a jury that didn't have an opinion on it as well. Yeah. Like they were just probably oh, whoever the police, I hope that government was gutted after that because Jesus Christ. Yeah, that is bad. So Lindy got to carry on with her life, but Azaria's body was never found and nothing was ever confirmed. So no one really 100% knows what happened. That actually would very much track if she was eaten. I wonder. Oh yeah. Like how the fuck would you find that? Yeah. Yeah. I think I just don't, I dunno, I just think it's too elaborate. I don't think there's anywhere near enough evidence for me to be sold that she did it, but I'm not ruling it out. Yeah. 'cause like it does sound like there was some neglecting vibes and stuff, but I also just think she was maybe just a bit chaotic. Yes. Potentially. And then I think she just had it really rough and maybe I think prison really, she just said I just got my shit together when I was in there and I thought, I'm not letting anyone take my kids off me ever again. Yeah. And she didn't get caught for doing anything else. Like, all of our kids are like, mom is God. Yeah. We love, literally love her. She's a diva. She went through such a shit time. Yeah. Even Michael was like, yeah, we got divorced, but it was only because it was a strain on our relationship. I dunno why mate, because your wife was in prison for three years, but so just fucking grow up. Like it was a strain for them. Yeah. I and even he was like, you must have a fucking ironclad relationship if you could survive that. Yeah. All of her mates as well are like, she might have come across like bad vibes, but you only knew her in the media and you only knew her on interviews and in television. But I knew her before and she was lush. I just can't like, yeah, I just think if I was a fucking media spectacle 'cause of something that happened and there was. There was. Yeah. People would think you were all right. Yeah. No. Like percent. Hundred percent. You are literally like when you're in the zone. Yeah. When there's something stressful going on and you need to lock in your face, there's nothing going on behind the sides. Nothing. Do you know what I mean? Because you are like literally just locked in on, you have to be in control and you have to be sorting out whatever's happening in front of you. Like I'm not there. Like also when Gimme a smile girl. Do you know? I'm just like my say I that there was a very few of my friends I cried in front of. Yeah. There was very few people that I even let a tear slip. Yeah. And I would sort myself out and actually I would joke. More than I would be upset. Yeah. And when you went back to work Yeah. You were like, I need to fix this task and I need to solve this problem and I need to make sure this works and I need to fix this and I need to lock in really hot. Yeah. On this task if anyone dead. Yeah. Say a word about how you were behaving. I would've knocked them clean out. Yeah. Literally. 'cause I was like, this is her coping mechanism. If she needs to throw herself into something right now, that's what she needs to do. Yeah. And then when the time is here to cry, then she will have a cry in front of people that she feels safe in front of. Yeah. Fuck off now. Or completely alone. Yeah. Like I just don't And you didn't have the media being like, make sure to smile too much. Exactly. No, that's too much. No, don't cry. If the media was in my face asking me questions, there's no fucking way. Yeah. There is no way. Yeah, like I think she was just like trying to just. Argue a case that no one was ha everyone was just laughing at face. And the more she says, the more they slip into this belief and it's just this cycle for her. I like, man. Yeah. I dunno. I feel for, I really feel for, I think yeah I'm still, I am still gonna re I'm gonna try and see the documentary from the other Edge and see if it can convince me after we've had this discussion. 'cause it would be super interesting. It would be interesting to see if it could, but yeah, but I just, I like, I don't know, I don't know how you can frame that. I just think as well, because if you like the photographer and people like that, like they're not her mates. No. And they were still going forward and saying look, this is the evidence that we've got here. Yeah. And I just don't, I wonder if there's an impartial one out there. Yeah. That's, that would be just here's the fact. Yeah, here you go. Here's everything you need. Lay out. Yeah. And also the facts are that even though the body wasn't found, we know that dingoes could be dangerous because I also don't doubt that in a documentary that is in support of her, could potentially leave out some things that maybe look a bit dodged. But I did try and find it. Yeah. Research. What actual evidence did the police have to, and to, and it was like there was blood in the car. Yes. Later it was discovered she got payout, which means they didn't Yeah. They can't have, yeah. People don't just get out. And it was public, like she was making public speeches all the time saying that she was treated unfairly and the police had to literally be like. Yeah, sorry. Because they literally when she was saying, what about her coat? They were saying you must have buried it. And then it showed up in a dingo den and they were like, fuck. Oh shit. Yeah. Was like, she was a coat. Do you see what I mean? Yeah. Like I'm literally telling you to go out and look for evidence. Why would I be doing that? That, and you are saying I don't need to because it doesn't exist. Yeah. So why were you not searching dingo dens? Oh, what the fuck? I dunno what they were doing like, and how do you find it? Five years later they threw one bit of meat into the ground and then they literally just cut open a few dingoes and was like there. I just imagine for the trees and being like, oh, isn't that in it? Yeah. I just think they were just to go from the get go. They were like, we need to prove she did it. And they just spent all their time trying to find evidence that she did it. And there wasn't any Yeah. That they didn't spend any evidence trying to disprove that the dingo did it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like they were just like. They just fucking decided and they might have decided and been right, but you can't just decide. You can't just decide. You can't just decide someone did that. You need to let the evidence take you where it take you. Also, I just feel like if they had time and they were gonna pretend to have a baby at the campfire, which I just really don't believe is that, that they would've come up with a better, more convincing story, then I didn't go tell my baby. Yeah. Or maybe they just didn't know that it was gonna become such a comedic, like outline story. Yeah. I think you couldn't have known that it was gonna take on the life that it did. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Even if you were, that was what you were doing. But I just think like there are far easy ways to Yeah. Also in the doc as well. Like they, all the people that were interviewed said that they felt really bad because they felt responsible for letting themselves be manipulated. Yes. And also that. They always knew deep down that it wasn't that case. It's just that they felt like they'd been manipulated and they felt like they could have done more to support her. No, because, but it might have been biased. You can't do anything about the power against the power of the media. No, I don't think they should ever feel responsible if something that so many people had an opinion on. Yeah. Even though they were the only people that were saying, no, I don't think they did it. I don't think so. Yeah. If anything, they're the only people that were standing up for what they thought was right. Just jumping on a bandwagon and don't somebody got into your head and made you Yeah. Maybe doubt what you were saying because that's quite a normal Yeah. Especially people like the police who are trained interrogators who know how to push those buttons to make you feel like you are losing it a bit. Yeah. Yeah. It's just really interesting because if you told me she did it, I wouldn't be like. What? Yeah. If there's evidence that came forward now, I wouldn't be like, what the hell? Because I was watching it and I was like, I just don't know. Like you're not, sometimes you watch people and you're like, oh, you so did that. Yeah. And I wasn't watching that with her, but I think, I'm not saying that if she did do it, she got what she deserved because I don't think she, I think she should have been in prison for the rest of her life. But what she went through, yes. Not exactly either was so much. Yeah. And whatever that did, she hadn't done anything like that ever. And if you have to believe it, like then, like the worry worrisome thing is then you have to believe that the dad's in on. And then like why was there no punishment for him? Yeah. If that narrative truly fit, even though for some reason she got life in prison. Yeah. He got nothing. And if there was a few more visits where there was actually some sort of neglect going on with the P, the pediatrician have logged it or something, she'd already had two kids. And then I also think it's quite important to understand what malnutrition means. Like some signs of malnutrition. 'cause a baby being underweight. Yeah. Like nine months. That is. Distinct possibility. I think. I think what a what a lot of people were saying is that she was going through some sort of like postpartum depression. Okay. And that she was really worried and worried and worried about the baby. And then she just stopped caring. Yeah. Because she was so depressed and because she stopped caring, she stopped feeding properly and stuff. Yeah. And that's why she didn't care because she just killed, they're saying, she just went on this hike and she just couldn't deal with the BAB anymore and she just killed her and was like, I don't have to worry about her anymore. But then you see pictures of them on that hike and you're like, yeah, it's a really common thing. She got rid of all that stress, didn't she? Yeah. Literally. And it's bro is absolutely upset. Like in the pictures. She is just she's not oh, stop screaming you stupid TWA of a child. Like she's literally taken her bab around a hike and and she, and you know those people say that they saw and heard that baby at the campsite. Yeah. That baby was alive at the campsite. I don't know. She might have. I just don't know. Dunno you wish We physically cannot. You cannot assume anything other than what they've said. Yeah. If they say it was alive at the campsite, it was alive at the campsite. Yeah. There is no proof that the baby was not, that is just a wild theory that someone's got in the place. It's so insane. And like I genuinely, before I did this case was like, oh yeah. About that lady that killed her baby and blamed it on a dingo. Yeah, same a buzz. That's what I was very, that's what I thought when you said it. Yeah. And then I was talking to Lauren about it the other day and I listen to a podcast episode, she's Amy, there's no way. And I was like, but what I research, maybe it is just a bias. Yeah. Maybe you guys can tell me. Yeah. I dunno. But I just like thought and I was like, maybe I just thought this because of the media. Yeah. And 'cause of the humor in the statement was because it wasn't actually real. Yeah. And that's why people would always laugh at it because she made that up. Yeah. But then I was watching it and I was like, fuck, this is actually a massive miscarriage of justice. Because even I never said it like five times. Even if she did it, she still, there was no evidence. Yeah. And she still was really like battered for someone that had no evidence pointing against her. No. And nothing's come ever since. There's nothing more. That's it. It sounds like they've probably stopped fighting it 'cause Yeah. I don't wanna lose another meal. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Elizabeth, we're gonna go to bed now. Yeah, it's been a night. Yeah, but we've done it. Yeah, we've got working. Yeah. Eight hours in. Eight hours. We gotta be I'll get up at half seven. Gross. Anyway. Goodbye. Okay. Goodbye.