The Perch Garage Murders

This week, we’re heading to a quiet road in Cornwall, England in 2003, where what should have been an ordinary night turned into a brutal and baffling crime that still raises questions decades later.

In this episode, we explore the Perch Garage murders. A small, family-run petrol station. A late-night robbery that escalated into something far more sinister. When morning came, the scene told a story of violence, but not a clear one.

We’ll walk through the timeline of that night, examine the evidence, and dig into the investigation that followed, including the suspects, the convictions, and the lingering doubts that continue to divide opinion. Because in this case, the most unsettling question isn’t just who did it… but whether the full truth was ever really uncovered.

So grab a drink, settle in… this one might leave you questioning everything you think you know.

Transcript

0:19

Thank you, queen. Okay. I need to get my welcome to Kill the Mood podcast. We're here to talk to you about everything. Spooky Doy. We are not professionals and we mean no offense in anything we say. This is just us trying to make sense of the senseless. Without further ado, this case says if we ever start. Recording, like video recording. We should absolutely be like, like you, you can't see us doing it right now, but like we've doing, Amy was doing full on like hand gestures as I was doing it. We should have like our own little, like Lily Allen's little dance that we are gonna have to learn. Yes. That do have to learn. Yeah, we need to have our own little version. Yeah. Anyway, this week's case is the Perch garage mos. Ooh, I don't think I know this one. It's a local one. Oh no, I know. I dunno. This one? Yes. Yes. 'cause I briefly told you Yes. Yes. It's a little Cornish one for you local fuckers. So you are welcome. Enjoy it. Oh, I guess it's in Wadebridge, so it's far, so far away. There's just so far. Yeah. Somewhere that we don't tend to go really, to be honest. No, but like it is there's nothing of much interest there, is there? No, not that I know of. There's a climbing wall. Yeah. Not for me. Yeah, that's fair. That's all I really know about it. So yes. This case is Perch is by Perch Garage in Wadebridge. It all starts on the 6th of November, 2003. I also didn't know about this but our friend was like, oh my God, you did that local one for Lynn Bryant age just gave, why don't you do this? And I was like, never heard of that. And then he sent me the link and I was like, great, I'll do it. Oh, okay. Great. I'll literally do it. What's that right? No. Ba baso. Baso? Oh, nice. Yeah, so he was just like, oh me me and Lou were just driving around the other day and we drove past Wadebridge and I was like, oh my God, do you remember the murder that happened here? And she was like, what do you remember in pen Rin? I dunno why this has brought this to my mind, but I was just thinking about local things that happened. That's wild. Is the guy that like cut off his own penis he was like running around. Yeah. And didn't someone taser him? Yeah, I think so. I think the police tasered him. I'm, no, it was random. Yeah. But I like remember that being like when I first moved here, like one of the first stories I heard, 'cause I think it had not long happened when I was a kid as well, we were driving through. Pen through the one way street. And I remember looking down the alleyway and just seeing a man pissing and just his dick was just out. And I was like, and then anytime we go through Pen Rin, I'd be like, I look at, I wanna look around. Yeah. And I spend so much time. Yeah. All the time. But yeah, it just really scared me because I was like, what the fuck is that? Yeah. Penman is different gravy actually. There's so many cute things, but there's also so many fucking gans about Yeah. One was actually, yeah, it's an interesting place sometimes. Yeah. I'm surprised there's not more of these stories I'm about to tell you to be honest. One day we'll do the sticker slasher. Yeah. One day we will get there. So it's about nine. It's so what, okay. It's 9:00 AM on the 6th of November, 2003 by Perch garage in Wadebridge. A bus driver was on his morning route when he saw something out of the ordinary. It looked like the body of a woman lying down on the path outside of her cottage. And the bus driver got out to check she was okay and realized that she was unresponsive. So he calls the police. What's a bus driver? I know that's how often do we see people unresponsive, there were, there was one time where me were just like, you into work. And then when I think this lady might be dead on the bench outside, of course. And then I was like, okay, do you think we should go check? And she was like, I don't know. Yeah. And then we went outside and then there was like another woman out there just staring at her. She wasn't dead, she was fine. But like she did. She did seem like she was dead. The other she was purple and she wasn't really breathing. Oh God, that's actually terrifying. The other day I was opening work and I went over to one side to open and the cleaner was like, oh, there's some people doing crack out there. Yeah. And I was like, sick. So I went into the other side and I was like, before we open, I'm just saying, I'm going over to the other side, but there's some people I think, doing crack on the other side, so I might have to read this to help. Yeah. I just need you to know that I'm over there. Looked out the window. There's someone just doing crack on the step as well. Yeah. And I was like, I'll be back for him. I lemme go do it with the first people doing crack and then got to the other side. They just saw me and just ran off and I was like, I was sick. Bye. Like it smelled. Crack when I was opening, but they just ran off and then by the time I came back, this other guy was like still crouching the doorway and I was like, okay, I'm just gonna go for a week and then I'm just gonna go out and just say, we're about to open. You need to move on. I came out, he'd gone as well. He gone on. I was like, guys what? Considerate, cracking. Yeah. I was like, do you know what you knew that the time for day-to-day life was vastly approaching that you had to move on. It's early in the morning. It's time to go. Yeah. Crap goes somewhere else. Yeah. Yeah. Your nighttime. Antics Yeah. Are over at 9:00 AM Wow. And they just knew, and I was like, do you know what? I almost had a really stressful morning that everyone, it's so thoughtful, I didn't have to speak to anyone. Yeah. So he called the police and then armed response arrives. They discover it was the body of a lady who lived in the cottage that was attached to a garage like a, not a garage, like someone's car. Like a. Like a mechanics garage. Oh yeah. Yeah. And her name was Carol Fisher. They searched the area and they discovered inside the bungalow that was attached to the garage, there was another body. This was Carol's husband, Graham Fisher. The bungalow was positioned directly behind their garage and they owned it together. It was just a completely random one at a place called Win's Perch on the A 39. And the couple had owned it for around 20 years. Oh, and it's gone now? Yeah, but it is literally just on the roadside. Oh, okay. Yeah. Like you could just not anymore, but like you could just literally Yeah. Whiz into the garage. Carol was 53 years old and Graham was 60 and they had recently celebrated their silver wedding anniversary. What's that? Dunno. Oh, okay. 25. Yeah, that does sound right. And that's bronze, is it? So 50? No, that can't be right if you're 60. Got married at 10. 10 and three. Must be 25, right? Yeah. Silver wedding. Yeah. 25. Cool. So apparently the crime scene was a fucking hot mess. There was literally blood everywhere, like all across the bungalow, all across the garden, all across the garage. Like it was like a chaotic time. The police from inspection thought that it looks like the couple had been bludgeoned to death by a sledgehammer. Jesus fucking Christ. I went to a rage room recently. Yes. And also side note, I dunno if I've said this already, performative as fuck. Yeah. Like it, like I don't know how, unless you like, are in a fucking rage and then walk in and say, give me the room. Yeah. Like I, it's just so to get yourself onto that level, like you must have people stood there get angry for me. Yeah. And they're just playing like fucking. Is it Limp Bizkit? And it's it's just one of those days. Yeah. It's all about the he she said yeah. And you're like, this is cute. So do what you telling me and fucking Slipknot duality. Yeah. And you're like, this is so performative. Like I had a good time, like it was fun to experience it put Me and Tom were literally just like in there and then we were like, how much longer do we able to do that? You're just like hitting anyway in there. Massive sledgehammer. Yeah. To fucking loads of different tools, but like the sledgehammer, the weight of a sledgehammer. Yeah. To bring up Yeah. And down, yeah. To attack somebody. Oh my fucking God. Must be insane. I know. Absolutely. Just, I can't even, I can't even, because even if I'm like breaking something, I don't know when I ever do this, but even if I was like trying to break some wood, I can't even physically let myself hit as hard as I possibly could hit because it feels wrong. Yeah. So the fact that someone's doing that to a human, ugh, terrifying. Not only were they blood to death by a sledgehammer, they were then shot to death at close range. You had a gun and you went for the sledgehammer. Are it looked like a random attack. At the table had been set for dinner, the TV was still on and their food was burnt to a crisp in the oven. Yeah. So obviously they didn't they not let them in or anything? It was like dinner time, like just they were, yeah. Okay. Might have let them in, but like more like they weren't expecting guests. Yes. They were just getting themselves ready to have dinner. Yeah, just a chill dinner. Through forensics and evidence, the police managed to decipher that this crime happened at around 10:00 PM the night before. So they go, so she was on the roadside all nine from nine and nobody noticed her until 9:00 AM Yeah, so well, so I think there's like the garage. And then there's like the path behind. Oh. And then their bun blow. Then that bun. And I think the bus driver must have stopped. Yeah. For to pick someone up or whatever. And then been able to look. Whereas because it's on the A 39, like loads of cars are constantly going past. Yeah. Constantly going past, but maybe not paying any attention. One stopping. Yeah. And I guess that was around the time where the garage would be opening. Yeah. And people would be appearing and stuff. So like he must have, the bus driver must have just been stopped or whatever. But yeah, she was out there all fucking night. Geez. Yeah. So the police start asking nearby if anyone had heard anything but awkwardly there wasn't much to go off because as I said earlier, it was the night before the 6th of November, so it was fucking bonfire bonfire night night. Yeah. So we love a fucking firework. Yeah. Firework guy. Forks night, whatever. Bonfire night. Meaning anyone and everyone had complete confusion with what was a firework and what was gunshot. And what was the gunshot, because no one would Oh, that feels like tactical. Tactical, yeah. Yeah. I'm not disappointed with the plan. I just, yeah disappointed with the murder. Yeah. Like I, but also, I really don't understand why you would use a sledgehammer on someone if you have a gun. I know. It feels like they've come in to hit. People that feels big and personal. Yeah. And yeah. It's just, yeah. That's not just a robbery. Also, I'm, maybe you'll get to it, but was the sledgehammer theirs? No, I don't think. You don't think so? Yeah. Don't think, it sounds like you've, who just brings a gun in a sledgehammer. I know. Like, how are you carrying? It was just a fucking shotgun bro. Like they're two very long items that you are carrying down the park. What now? I've just got this image of them you know when you have like the back holsters? Yeah. Sledgehammer. Yeah. Gum. Like how on earth, what did you walk, when you are like coming out of your car and you've just got like loads of stuff in your hands. What do you mean literally? What do you mean you had a sledgehammer and a shotgun? We can't even carry a massive wall. Oh, my w. Me and Amy have matching water bottles. Now I recently, literally two days ago, I was like, I need a better water bottle. Mine's Babi. And I was like, for work, I need a big one. Yeah. And I was like, I saw the exact same one as Tanisha's in a different color. And I was like, I'm just gonna buy it. And I was carrying it. Yeah. Yesterday I like pick up my bag. And then I pick up my car keys and then I have to be like, now how am I gonna fucking carry this fucking C And I like cradle it like a baby while I'm walking to the, I was literally walking from the car to work and I was like, yeah it's 1.8 liters. Also, you can't put it in your bag because its upside down fucking skills. It's so impractical. But I love it. It's, it holds a lot of, it's a vessel. Yeah. It's great because you are hydrated, but yeah, it is a bit of a fucking nightmare. Yeah. So I dunno how you're carrying a fucking sledgehammer and a shotgun. Yeah. So baffling. Oh, okay. Sorry. I'll let you carry on, but do we think that could mean too? Yes. Yeah. Okay, great. We, I think so. Yeah, we see. Maybe you'll see potentially, yeah. So yeah, that basically. It was really difficult to get any evidence of anyone because anyone that lived nearby was like, I just heard fireworks last night. Yeah. I just heard like a random And you wouldn't know the difference between a firework and a gunshot. Yeah. And you wouldn't be like, oh, that sounded like a double barrel shotgun actually. Yeah. And if you are your questionable was perfect. It was probably you. Yeah. So everyone was just like, oh, sorry. I just thought it was fireworks. I didn't really hear anything. Like I couldn't give anything conclusive. Didn't hear any screaming. Yeah. Just heard like your random guy forks, extravaganzas going on. Yeah. So no one had anything useful at all. No one saw anything. Everyone just heard what they thought was fireworks. The crime scene was apparently wild and the judge actually later described it as indescribable horror. Oh God. Yeah. Graham had been shot three times with a shotgun so he'd been hit That's too many times. Yeah. Shotguns as well at close range. They like splatter. Yeah. It's pellets. Yeah. No. At what? One, one shot with a shotgun is already obviously too much. Yeah. But three is completely unnecessary. Yeah. Also, I know that you can have big bungalows, but they were in a fucking bungalow. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like it's not like a whole massive room with, do you know what I mean? Yeah. Also, I would've coached You notice that before you went into the house? Yeah. So I, there was no upstairs. I assume what had happened is I think they got hi, they hit him to other people. Does. Is that what bun a bungalow is called bungalows in other countries? I don't know. It's actually just as I said that I was like, actually, if somebody's listening who isn't from the uk, do you know what a bungalow is? Yeah. It has no, upstairs. I feel like there's some places in America that just only have bungalows. Yeah. But Do they call them bungalows? Yeah, so they just, houses are bungalows called bungalows everywhere. Because I feel like there's some places in America that literally every single house is just one floor, and that's just how the villages in that place are. So you wouldn't really call that a bungalow, would you just call it a house? Yeah. No, they're not called bungalows ever. This term, it's recognized globally. Oh, it is recognized globally though. But in the US they're called Ranch Houses. Ranch House. And in Australia they're called Coastal Homes. Oh, fun. Or Simply Detached Homes. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Bungalow doesn't have a upstairs. Yeah. And I feel like a ranch house is like what I'm picturing like certain places in America that it's like you still have to walk up some steps to get on it, but then it's one floor. Yes. Like the whole house looks like a big static. Yeah. That's what I'm envisioning. Yeah. I guess not bungalow just a interesting No, it, it would've been classified as bungalow for us. Yeah. Yeah. This, yeah. Fascinating. Whatever you call it, it hasn't gone upstairs. Yeah. Meep. Yes. So then, so he'd been hit. With this sledgehammer pre being shot right? Then he'd been shot three times and ki in the kitchen of their bungalow and it had just killed him. Yeah. As it should. Yeah. I dunno how. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then I think from his head wounds and stuff, it looked like he'd been hit by a sledgehammer, whether it was just ran in, banged him out, and then shot him and then shot. And then Carol again. The fucking change off between those weapons, like how I know Swing of a Bun Bungalow, swing them swung. No. Swinging of a sledgehammer. I know. And then picking up a shotgun. I know. I, it just feels if you're gonna walk in and kill someone, what is the point in this? I don't wanna say it, but I'm gonna say it's clunky. Yeah. That's really clunky. Yeah. If not two people. I know it's almost like it's trying to say oh, let's bash him about a bit first and then shoot someone in hits. Yeah, someone comes behind. Shoots. Shoots. Yeah. I think that is basically what I think has happened. Yeah. So Carol looked as if she'd been shot in the hand at the start. Poor Carol and she tried to get to the phone and dial nine, nine, nine. Yeah. But it hadn't worked like it has been a missile or whatever. Yeah. So there's blood all over the phone. There's blood all over the kitchen, everything. She then fled to the garden and she'd managed to make it up the path, but then she'd been shot in the back and in the neck. Okay. And then I think what happened is the garage had been fucked up a bit. Okay. But it was weird because the TV was still there and so it doesn't feel like a robbery. Yeah. Like it just. It was really strange. Like it looked like either maybe the garage had been robbed and then they realized that someone was in the bungalow or something like that, oh, okay. I don't think anything was like taken to note, but it looked like as if they were trying to fuck shit up. Yeah. As so the police were just like, I'm really confused because it doesn't really look like someone that they know. It looks like it's been like an attack. Yes. And they've broke down the door and, all of this stuff and Caroline like running around trying to like phone the police and whatever. But it also looked like a robbery, but it had gone completely wrong. Yeah. Wrong. And there was money in the safe as well, so they were like, it could be a robbery gone wrong, but it, this wasn't, it doesn't feel like, let's kill them and then take all their shit. Yeah. Like potentially they had gone there just to rob the garage and the people had heard them and they'd heard them, and then they'd, yeah. But then. If you were in the middle of robbing the garage. 'cause it doesn't sound like the, they had heard them robbing the garage. Sounds like the people in the garage potentially realized there were people in the bunker and gone into the house. If you had done that then. If you realized that they were there, wouldn't you just fuck off from the ga? Like you didn't have to kill anyone. I know you went out of your way to kill them. I know. Unless they were robbing the garage and Carol had heard it and then she tried to call 9, 9, 9. And then that's when she got shot in the hand and then they were like, oh, we've gotta kill everyone now. Like I don't really know what order or one person's, I dunno why. I'm just like fucking going away. It throw it out, one person's robbing the garage and then the other person goes to the house to rob the house and then they realize that there's people in the house. And then the person leaving the garage comes into the house. Yes. Which is why Sledgehammer. Yes. And then shotgun? Yes. Oh my gosh. Yes. Maybe God hire her. Now. Where were you in 2003? I was approximately six years old. Yeah. In boom, in Birmingham. Yes. So nothing comes up at all. They're trying to find out. They've got no evidence. Yeah, they've got no witnesses, they've got nothing. The. The police actually get a hold of National Express coaches that were going across overnight to see if they saw or heard anything. They actually also get the Royal Air Force involved to see if they saw anything or know anything about it. They start interviewing every single person that was going past on that A 39. Yeah, the night before they interview everyone on the coach in case they were looking out the window and saw every anything. Imagine. Speeding across the 8 39 the night before and then getting contacted by the police and you're like, they've got me. Yeah, they fucking got me. They're like, were you by the police? You're like, no. You're like you got cameras there. Yeah. Clearly not. Yeah. Obviously not. Yeah, so nothing was really coming up. In December, 2003, the police brought back some retired detectives to help with their investigation because they were fearing something like this would happen again 'cause they hadn't found anyone or whatever. And also to note, for some reason the crimes in this area in 2003 were like really popping off. So I think they got detectives in because there was like other things happening, things going on. I did have a look at it and it was just like a few more people murdered and stuff, but nothing that, okay. L was like a similar crime to it, but it wasn't just this crime that, yeah, there was a lot going on. They were like, for some reason everyone's getting murdered this year. Yeah. So can all the detectives come back in and see if anything helps? Which wouldn't necessarily have to be a lot in Cornwall because there isn't a lot of that. No, they can't. There is some The police down in Fal. Yeah. Literally it's been closed down. They were just like, what's the point? Yeah. They came up. Yeah. Yeah, so nothing really came up until the 29th of December, 2003 when the police found two shotguns buried on the beach in Western Superman. What the fuck? I know. The guns were a match to the ones used in the attack. And after DNA testing, it was actually confirmed to be the same fingerprints that they'd managed to find from the cottage as well. From the bungalow as well. Okay. So it was very likely the same. Yeah. Shotgun, but it was the same shotgun, but they were still like. Dunno who buried it. Dunno how it got here. Yeah. How does that help? Yeah, they just were like, we found the murder weapon, but it hasn't actually got us anywhere. So they were like still stuck on how to link it to another person. They offered a 10,000 pound reward from Crime Stoppers for any information, but nothing for ages until in April, 2004 two people from St. Dennis were questioned. Then they were released. Okay. And no further action was taken. Was taken. But around this time, the police interviewed 3000 people and took 1,800 statements. People thinking they saw stuff, fuck all, nothing. Fuck all this does go somewhere. No. It doesn't really, but it feels like we're not getting anywhere. That's it. Yeah. In 2004, they. Released a good old crime watch episode. Yes, as per usual. But there was dead ends everywhere. During all of this. There was a completely separate set of crimes that were happening that didn't actually really make a link until. Late 2005, right? So on December the 18th in 2003, there was two brothers named Robert and Lee Firkins, and they were robbing a, b and Q, which is a hardware shop. Yeah. In Taunton? Yeah, in Somerset. The next day, Lee, one of the brothers, was actually also involved in an armed robbery in Fraden in Cornwall. At fucking ow. Busy boy. I know. Like Jesus. Other day off Lee. I know. That's, I listen now. I would I've only seen robberies in like heist films. Yeah. But I feel that it should take some planning. I know. I don't think robbing a, B and Q and then fucking chasing it up. I know. And armed robbery is a good idea. I know. It is really mad sad. I know. It is like such a random, so he's in Taunton and then he's oh, be in Q is where I'm at. Yeah. I dunno if he wants to get I don't know. Sledgehammer? Yeah. Oh, yes. Or like convenient. Yeah. Like threatening things to, but wouldn't you, at least, why are you robing a fucking B and Q? I know. And do you not think if you, if the plan was to get some hardware or get some tools so that you can do a robbery Well, the garage that you robbed Yeah. And left. But wouldn't you pay for these things at b and q so that you're not on anyone's radar already? Yeah. Than to steal supplies to then go and. Threaten in a robbery the next day. Baffling just lay low. Yeah. Just for a small while. God and I think so the both the brothers were robbing the, being Q together, but only Lee. And then only Lee was involved in the armed robbery in Fraden the next day. Do you know what they were robbing in Fraden? Like where Like It was a petrol station. A petrol station, right? Yeah. The Petrol Station or the Mackey's is maybe, yeah. Service station. Quite possibly. Yeah. Fraden is a service station. Let's find out where there's a Mackey's because I'm almost off and now a next and stuff. And that is a petrol station. Leave fucking, is that his name? Where did he rob? Did you say? You're almost done. It's gonna be the shortest episode we've ever done. I know. It was literally, I just realized that it was literally, it's 30 minutes long right now. I know. That's fine. We never do short ones. Lee Firkins, robbery, petrol station, Fraden. Oh. It's just him doing the crime that I'm talking about. Oh, okay. This is them though. The brothers. Let me show you how picky of them. Yeah. Tracks just the two most boring men you've ever seen in your whole life. Real? Yeah. I don't know. It doesn't say what one. Okay. But potentially maybe Fraden. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe we'll find out how long that one's been around for and if it has been around for. Longer than 2003. I bet it has. He must have been there for a really long time. Yeah. So he's gone down to Cornwall immediately after robbed petrol station during the robbery, for some reason, he fires a double barreled shotgun at a wall. I don't know. Just maybe you just wanted to be like, listen, do you know what I mean? You know when people fire a gun near someone to be like threatening? Yeah. You know when that happens sometimes when that happens all the time in films. But I dunno if maybe he was just being like, where's he getting one? Actually, do you know what, when we went to Trago the other day, first time in my life I've seen a wall of guns. In the Big Traeger. In the Big Traeger. Oh my God. How have I always missed that? Yeah, I just usually go to the stationary or it's a counter, but like I'm literally walking past 'em and I was like, oh God. Oh my God. That's horrifying. Yeah, it's scary that, yeah, to be fair, I dunno how IES got it, but I guess like farmers and shit can get access to it and whatever. And foreign mums, foreigner's, moms, yeah, so they had both been arrested. And a man called Sean Jay claimed that whilst he was in Exter jail with Robert Kins, so the other brother that didn't do the second robbery even though I assume he was around. Yeah, because I think they went together. He they're in fucking b and Q together the day before, so you can only assume. Yeah, exactly. I feel like they just get up to their antics together. He firkins. Robert Firkins actually admitted while he was on remand, like in this extra jail with this guy. He admitted to shooting Carol and Graham Fisher, just like out of nowhere. They were like walking around on their like afternoon stroll or whatever and he was like, yeah, I shot them, but my brother said that he's gonna take the rap even though. Robert had was saying that he'd done the shooting. He was the one that did it. Yeah. That they'd gone and done it together. Yes. Which would make sense. Yeah, it would make exact sense to be fair. And Sean Jay was like, what the hell? Yeah. Why tell that? Why are you telling me this? I just said, did you have a good morning? Yeah. And you said No, but I did kill the I know. And also you're saying like, what you in here for? Not even that. Yeah. That's, that wasn't even on anyone's radar. Just keep your gum shut. Interesting. Yeah. Like you were just robbing a I'm, I say just like it's bad, but you were robbing a, B, and Q like you. You were never on trial for murder. Just shush. It's my favorite saying. Folded under zero pressure actually. It's so true, isn't it? That's me. Anytime you know anything about that. Yeah, she'll just Tanisha will just sense if there's something going on with me and you'll just be like, how are you? And I'll be like, blah, blah, blah, blah. She'll be like literally folded under zero pressure. You can just look at me and just know that I have something to tell you that I shouldn't be telling. Yeah. Yeah. So during the trial coming for their current crimes, their stepbrother, the brother's stepbrother, Craig Mack, told the court that it wasn't Lee's first rodeo for armed robbery. And on the night of the Fisher's murder, because now they're starting to be like, we've heard some other things. Yes. And you were in Cornwall around this time. Yeah. You're doing robberies, you've got a shotgun. Like we haven't found the evidence, but you've literally admitted it to someone. Yeah. So what the hell's going on? The brothers apparently on the night of the Fisher's murder, were doing crack cocaine. And their stepbrother, Craig Mack, knew that for a fact, like probably because they called him and were like, does that mean that they cracked up? Didn't rob someone though? No. He was saying like they were fucked up. Oh, like he's said. I thought you were saying like no. They were really busy doing crack. They were a crack hole and they were just like I in a crack hole. They should, they were, honestly, they were Ed that night. No doubt. Okay. So that they could have been volatile and doing wild shit. They actually don't commit crime when they're on crack. So this is actually one of my crack days. I can't come out tonight, Lance. I'm doing crack. No. I do have an alibi. I was doing crack. I did shoot a shotgun at the wall, but I was on crack. I was doing crack also. That means that bro like fucking D, oh no, I'm telling a lie. This was on December the 18th. So this is after Oh, okay. That they were robbing, doing crack. They were robbing the B and Q and the Oh yeah. Petrol station stuff. So on the night of the Fisher's murder, that's when they were doing crack. That's when they were doing crack. I'm sure they were doing it every other night too. I'd like to say Yeah. And Craig Mack Grassing on them doing crack. Yeah. He was just like, yeah, I knew that they were on crack that day. And apparently the brothers both in the, like leading up to the trial were admitting to going to Cornwall, but to buy cannabis, not crack. Not, it wasn't crack and not to murder. It wasn't crack, it was cannabis. They sound so funny. So we just wanted a little bit of wacky backy. Yeah, look, they have really good weed in Cornwall. Yeah. So we drove from, actually you are wrong because Tuesdays are when we do crack, then Wednesdays are when we go and get cannabis. I'm not even sure if it was a Wednesday. I dunno what day of the week it was, but No, but this literally sounds like what they're saying and it's look, we did go to Cornwall on the night of that. Double murder. So where do they live? I think they live in Taunton. And also, why are you coming to Cornwall for wheat? Like why would you even come to Cornwall for crack, let alone some food? I'm sure there's plenty in Taunton. It was, it just sounds like they are so all over the place. Like one of them's I did the shoot. He is gonna take the rap. And the other one's no, I'll take the wrap. And everyone's no one even know. One it. Yeah. And then they're like, we did go Cornwall that night, but we were only going to buy some weed. And it's that's also a crime. Stop talking. And they're like, was it crack? And he is no, it wasn't crack, it was weed. And they're like, and it was weed. Did you commit a murder? And they're like, no, it was weed and a little bit of crack. That's so crazy. Wrong choice of words again. Here we are. So they said we didn't go to Cornwall to murder. We just went to buy some weed. And so I think the lawyers are just like, we're fine. Yeah. Stop saying things. Yeah. So the trial finally came in late 2005. So this they've been in and outta prison or whatever and like awaiting trial this whole, for the whole two years. But the trial starts in 2005. The prosecution claimed that this was, in fact, a robbery gone wrong. And Liam, Robert were involved and they'd gone to Cornwall and they were on crack, and they just randomly pulled up to this garage. Oh, it was on the stand going weed. Yeah, we were on weed. They were on. Thank you very much. Yeah, and basically they were like. They that they'd pulled up to a random garage on the side of the road and they'd tried to rob it. It rob it, and then they'd realize that the people that owned the garage, honestly, baby genius. Yeah. And that they were, and it does make sense. If they were all crack, like it does because they might have just been like ri rifling around. One says oh, I'm just, I'm going in here. I'm gonna do this. And they start making damage and they're like, oh, I should go in the house and rob the house. Yeah. And then they get to the house and they realize people in there and they're just like, fucking sledgehammer. Yeah, exactly. And there's three shots with a shotgun. Overkill. I know. Exactly. And it does really make sense. Because also the fact that they would like, they've. They're robbing being Qs and stuff and they're doing armed robberies all the time. It like, so why wouldn't you go for a garage? Exactly. You just see a random garage, a loan, you'd be like, there's loads of good shit beings, garages, petrol stations all feel like the same categories. Exactly. And if you're gonna go for a fucking being q I'm not sure why you would rob them though. I know, like I know you can make a lot of money off tools and stuff. Yeah. But. Go to somewhere where money is. Yeah. Go to a bank. Yeah. Or go to a place that has guns. Have guns, and I get that they have less security and stuff, but yeah. But even a BQ would make more sense to me because there's money there. Yeah, true. I guess there isn't a garage too, but you didn't even bother with the safe. Maybe the two cracked Unless they're both cracked out and they're just driving down the road and they're both like, oh. Garage. There's probably some hammers and yeah, I don't know what else is in there. Gears, I'd really like to know what they stole from the pink. You Some quite interesting, some gardening gloves and wellies. They still one of those fountains, one of the little like fountain displays or like a shed. A pot of paint. Yeah. You just really need to do my own living room. If I went in there, I'd steal the still cup. I wanna spruce up the crackdown. It's very nice. They're just getting their own paint mixed and the paint mixing machine, they're using the mixer. Can we get a sample of that? I just really wanted Pancho fuck sake Fucking panto matching. Yeah. Honestly. Yeah, I think I'd steal the. Still toe up boots 'cause they are really lovely. Yeah. But they don't have them in my size. Our feet are, do small hardware. Hard work apparently. Yeah. Doesn't matter if my toes get crushed. Yeah. We couldn't possibly do any manual labor. Any manual labor jobs that need, that require still toe up boots. Yeah. So I'm glad that we bumped this. Yeah. We literally bumped this episode like so much by just our fucking utter nonsense. Yeah, so it, it made sense. Like they just pull up to a random garage. They go to Robert, one of them's oh, there's a house. Let's see what's going on. They run into two people. She's trying to ring the police. They're just shooting everyone, and then they just fuck off and then go and buy their weed, quote unquote. Yes. However, there wasn't actually any evidence. Yeah. There wasn't a d Weird because they had some fingerprints and stuff that were literally attached to the guns. Yeah. But it wasn't, yeah. Nothing was lining up. Okay. There was no match to anything or anyone. So they were just like this. There's not evidence or anything. Yeah. Just that we know that you're a criminal and that one of you bearing in tracks. They're both crackhead. Yeah. One of them said in the prison courtyard oh yeah, I did that one too. Yeah. And it's just okay but where's the proof? Yeah. Like it does. Really seem likely, yes. It feels like it matches, but there is no proof. Yeah, there's just nothing that's like solid evidence basically. They admitted to unrelated offenses. So the BQ, the robbery, stuff like that. But they both claim that they didn't have anything to do with the killings. However, they were both found guilty of murder and they were both given life sentences. Oh, fucking hell yeah. So the current HAPS for that is like in 2005. They both go in to do life sentences. They're both trying to appeal Yes. On and off for years and years. But the court of appeal just kept rejecting them also. In 2000. So literally nothing happens. This whole case is dead and gone, like the garage gets closed down. It's just a bit of road. Yeah. Everyone's oh, these people went away for this or whatever. In 2018, so this is ages after Lee was actually sentenced again for a triple assault at Broadmoor. That's where he ended up, like he went to Broadmoor. Oh. He. Was sentenced again. So obviously this is 15 years later or something. Maybe less. Six, seven 13. From 2005 to 2018. Yes. 30. And he's still assaulting, so whatever's happening to him inside, he's not getting any better. I'm not sure that's what prison does. Yeah. I guess we like to pretend it is, but I don't think that is also Broadmoor high. Maximum security facility, not prison. Yeah. Yeah. Which means he must have had some psychiatric stuff going on for him to be in Broadmoor. Yeah. 'cause I think he got moved there for whatever psychiatrics, but also Broadmoor is like the worst of the worst when it comes to offenses. Yeah. But you think like a break from crack might have helped a bit, but clearly I think there's lots of crack in prison. Damn. Yeah, fair enough. Actually, I imagine that's why his brother admitted to that shit while he was in prison. More of the crack this time, the toilet. Literally. In 2020 they were both granted an appeal. Okay. After him in 2018, assaulting. A triple assault. They grant, they were granted an appeal, but this meant lots of DNA evidence and other evidence had to be revisited. With new improved technology, et cetera. So it was taking ages to, have this appeal gone through in 2022. During all of this was still going on, Robert was given another sentence too, for throwing excrement over a prison officer. You've got to stop taking crack. At what point will we admit it's ruined our lives? It sounds fast. No, I'm joking. I know you quite literally threw shit at somebody I know. And 2022 That is. So many years after you've already gone in. It sounds maybe not peaceful, but it sounds like he went under the radar that whole time as well. Yeah. Wasn't getting into trouble. Yeah. And then you get an appeal, you're granted appeal and you think, what I'm gonna do is lob my own shit at another human being who, who is like in charge of you. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Who can make, who's obviously gonna report you for it? Yeah. Who can put you in the. Scary cells, what are they called? Isolation. Isolation. They can do all of this stuff, like they can make your life hell. And they can literally say, don't give this person an appeal. Don't grant them it because. They're not getting better. However, none of it mattered because in June of 20 23, 18 years after their first arrest, the Firkins were appealing again. This time, the Court of Appeal quashed their convictions for murder on the basis that there was. No evidence at all. They did it well. That which is true, that is fair. There isn't, it's so ing, but they did throw shit at somebody 18 years and assaulted three people. Literally about 15 years into the sentence, they started popping off again and doing more crimes in prison. They were still committing crime. And then 18 years after, they're like, whatever. You probably can go now. And they ordered a retrial, so in December of 2024, so like super recent, the prosecution could offer no valid evidence, motive or means, and the judge entered a non guilty verdict and they were let free. Are you telling me that we've just spent an hour talking shit about two men that are out and close? Yeah. I assume in our proximity. I know they're probably on crack. That's so funny. I know. I was like, when we first started getting in, I was like. Yeah, course that. Yeah. So no one knows if they actually did it and if they didn't, no one knows who actually did it. Yeah. And it's just an open case that two people went to jail for 18 years with no evidence. And then I've put, but be careful 'cause it was just down the road. That's so funny. I know. And that is literally it. That's it. Yeah. That's it. Also, surely they would get some compensation. Eventually then. Yeah. This is what I'm mean. If they've proven that well, I dunno if that's how, I dunno what the crack is when it comes 1, 1, 1 of the one. When it comes to quashing a convi, a conviction or pardoning one. Yeah. Because also it's it's it's hard because we literally had this last week with Lindy Chamberlain. Yeah. Where she. Whether she did it or not, the trial, it was a trial by the media and she was then able to, fight her case. Yeah. To get some kind of compensation for it. This. They went to prison for so long, but I dunno if it's because like they, they already were going to prison for a different crime anyway. Okay. Yes. Do you know what I mean? They, to be fair, they were criminals in, actually, they did admit first place, they admitted to the robberies and they admitted to doing and armed robberies. And they admitted to doing the killings as well. Yes. There was no actual evidence. Yeah, but they were, but the fact they were both sentenced to life sentences for murder. Yes, wrong, but the fact that they were already on trial for crimes anyway, and then also whilst they were in jail, they were still assaulting people and stuff. Yeah. Like I guess that's what with Lindy, she was saying, you just decided that my trial was guilty before I'd even stepped into the room. Yes. And I've lost out on lots of years in my life and there's still no evidence. And actually you found things that prove that it was me. Also, I think a lot of time, like a lot of the people that do get like compensation and stuff. Are people who are absolutely innocent. But you are right that they were already admitting to quite severe crimes. Lindy got let out because there was other. Evidence found that pointed towards a dingo, whereas these guys just got let out because it was like we can't prove that we have to revisit it because they've appealed and there's not really any evidence that say that they've done it. Yeah, but it's not even like they were shining citizens in prison that were trying the hardest to No. Like they're literally throwing shit at this mate. To be fair, the guy that threw shit. Yeah, it's less bad. It is not as bad as the three assault. We all thrown a bit of shit at time. Do you know what I mean? When haven't we, yeah. Throwing shit, throwing shades, same thing. Same thing. Really? Yeah. But that's just maybe him being like, fuck the system, but a triple assault. Yeah, in a high direction. And you didn't get any extra time for that. I know. Then they were just like a couple years later but I guess maybe they did, they might be ready, say time served. Yeah. We'll call it time served. Yeah. Based on the armed robberies and the throwing shit and the assault and we'll call it time served and Dy was three years and then got let out because there was evidence that proved that she was right. So that's why she felt like she could appeal. But she also didn't rob a being killed before. Yeah. Whereas the other guys, it's like they're still going to prison for crimes anyway, and they've. Yeah, it's just maybe the fact that it's time with UpToDate DNA evidence to revisit it and actually there's just not enough. So this also feels like one that's just like never really gonna be solved then. Yeah, exactly. And it's so because like how can you go back? Oh, they've got rid of it. Gone be found is gone. Actually, the one thing is like if they had fingerprints, why don't they match the brothers? I know it's really random and they, the. I dunno if it was like, it's the same gun from yeah, because if it was the same gun and there was fingerprints on the gun and they knew that it was like literally the exact same one because of the shots and because of the DNA. How would that not match? I don't understand. Yeah. Unless it's like DNA from their house matched the gun. Ah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Okay. Yes. I because obviously this case isn't very big, it's very vague what it says. When I was looking up information, so it was just like the DNA and the. Gun specifically, like the bullets and stuff, they all matched. So maybe it's saying like the DNA from their house proves that the gun is definitely the gun that was used in the house, but it's not necessarily, but maybe the DNA likes Lindy. Not Lindy, sorry, Carol. Carol, sorry. We were just talking about yeah. From Carol. Yeah. That, that they're saying DNA from the Fisher household is, yes. It matches the gun. It doesn't necess, I said fingerprints, but actually I don't. Yeah, a hundred percent. Because I would say like why? Surely If the fingerprints didn't match them, yeah, it wouldn't be, that should be it. Like I don't think, maybe I'm lying about the fingerprints then, because I think it maybe is just just didn't, it matches the house, so it puts the gun in the house, but doesn't put anything with the gun. Yeah, because I was reading it and it was just very much like it was, and they couldn't do, oh, it's probably a dumb question, but they couldn't do anything to trace. I dunno, the gun, it's also difficult because it wasn't until, but then I guess 2000, like how, yeah. What's the likelihood that you bought that gun? I know. And like also if they're like just pulling up at a random garage and deciding on crack to just rob it. How the fuck is their fingerprints not in that garage? Surely. Like you, it doesn't sound like they're thinking things through. I can't imagine. It was like gloves on. Yeah, exactly. Like guys, gloves on, be careful, heads down, be safe. But it is also weird that they were operating in the area and using a shotgun. Yeah. Sledge channel is strange also, like I guess if you're not with your stepbrothers and then they call you and they're acting absolutely wild, they might be because they've just gone on a killing spree and you might just think that's crack. They're on track. Yeah. I just don't know. Could have been both. Yeah. Jesus. Yeah, it is very, I just didn't know that was like something that happened so close to us, no, I'd literally never heard of that. Ambassador was like, you should look into it. And I looked into it and I was like, okay. And then I was like, they've been let out. And I was like, I'm gonna do it anyway. I'm gonna do it anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Also, it doesn't help that they just look like so many other people that. Or around. Yeah, it's quite hard to differentiate. I'll show you. Carolyn Graham, though. They're cute. Oh yeah. Aw, I know. They were divas. That's a fucking horrible way to die. I know. Especially 'cause like they're just like these little cuties. I don't know them. Personally, but like they seemed like little Cuties that just had a little garage for 20 years just going about their life. And I can just imagine them like walking up and down their little path, just opening the garage, just getting ready for dinner, going home. Yeah, putting the TV on. I've said it before. I'm gonna say it again. It feels like you should get to a certain age and you should just not have to worry about being murdered. I know. It feels like you should always not have to worry about being murdered, but if you're gonna do it like just over 70, just leave people alone. Leave people alone once over time. I don't think they were over 70, were they? No, I wasn't it like and 53 and 60 over 50 then. Yeah, but just anyone, just stop doing it. Just stop murdering people. Otherwise we wouldn't have anything to talk about, but we'd move on to mysteries. Yeah, exactly. We'd become our own version of mystery. We talk about the Man N Triangle. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. This, it might be our shortest one ever. I know. Souls divas. No, it's fine. I know. Get over it divas. Yeah, you get to listen to our dset tones. For a little bit. It's still fucking 50 minutes. I know. It looks, it's not exactly short, it's just shorter than we usually do. I know like red-handed do like a shorthand one and they still probably get in more information in 20 minutes than we do now anyway, so that's 'cause we don't shut the fuck up. Yeah. I love it. I wouldn't love it any other way. Anyway, it's been a dream, but we are gonna fuck off you now. Yep. You know the drill. Follow us on Instagram at Kill the Mood Pod and email us at Kill the Mood podcast@gmail.com. Okay. Thank you very much and we'll see you next week. Bye.