The Murder of Sherri Rasmussen

This week, we're heading to Los Angeles in the 1980s, where a shocking murder inside a quiet suburban home would remain unsolved for years.

When respected nurse Sherri Rasmussen was found beaten and shot to death, detectives believed they were looking at a burglary gone wrong. But as the years passed, cracks began to appear in that theory. Evidence was overlooked. Leads were missed. And one person, hiding in plain sight, seemed to escape suspicion entirely.

We'll explore the life of Sherri Rasmussen, the investigation that stalled, and the astonishing breakthrough that finally exposed a killer no one expected.

So grab a drink, settle in... because this case proves that sometimes the most dangerous person isn't a stranger at all.

Transcript

0:16

It was like and was like, we have to get there ASAP. And I was like, when's you on? She was like, three hours. And I was like, we're gonna be okay. And she was like, we need to get to the front. I was like, I'll push my fucking way to get my head. But we were there at the front, but we just kept shouting, let's get pegged! Let's get pegged! And then we were like down there watching Sophia Ellis Becster, and we were like, Come on, girls, it's time to get pegged. Oh my love. Yeah. I literally was just like, I I was like, I don't have it in me. I I feel like I would have had so much fun. I love that man, but he just did a house. Yeah, and also I didn't think I had like the weekend in me, like the staying at M's and like just I don't know. I just was like, I don't think I'm mentally there this week. And I think maybe if I hadn't done the wedding last week and the baby shower, I maybe would have been like, I can do it. But I actually was just like, I just don't want to know you have had a busy time. And it was amazing, but he wasn't on till half midnight. Yeah. And he just did a house. I was so close to that man, it was worth every second. And I still had a good day. Yeah. But if you if you were only really gonna go to see Simon Pegg, like it's late. Yeah, I'm tired to have committed to a lot of other things that that just weren't worth the set. That wasn't mind-blowing. Anyway, welcome to Kill the Mood Podcast. We are here to talk about everything spooky-dooky. We are not professionals and we mean no offense in anything we say. This is just us trying to make sense of the senseless. Without further ado, this week's case is the murder of Sherry. Raz Mouson. Sherry. Is that her name? Yeah. Sherry! I'm pretty sure, yeah, Raz Mouson. That is her name. Well, we need to say sorry we weren't here last week. Our work is so demanding right now. Yeah. It's literally non-fucking stop, but we're about to go into our quieter period, so things get a bit easier for us. But it has been. We are about to get busier, but we have a lot over the next month or two, and we're going away. So we need to lock in quite a few episodes. Yeah, we really do. Oh my god, yeah. We've been doing it for And the great fucking thing about August for us is it's like down period for our work. It's actually pretty fucking chill, and we'll probably get some time off and actually get to see some sunshine and actually have a good time. And then in September I'm going to Amsterdam. Yeah, that is so fun. I'm gonna see quite a few good gigs, but I do think I'm gonna have just maybe a week off in August to just not have plans. Yeah. Maybe meet some friends, you do some kind of chill stuff. Go to the beach a bit. Yeah. Swim in the sea. Oh, I guess I'm seeing you tomorrow. Who? Amy and Tom. No fucking way! Yeah. Yeah. I ran into them on a dog walk the other day and Willow met Bones, their dog. Have you seen their dog? Oh my god, let me show you the quickest picky. I've definitely still got a screenshot from the other day. This is won't. And Willow and Bones were friends, and I was like, oh my god, she hates all dogs, literally all dogs. And then we had like such a good catch-up. But Willow collabed with this dog, and I thought, oh my god, this is gonna be bad. And then it was really good, and then we had a whole catch-up. We stood together for like half an hour, just both on a walk, just stopped all of us, and we were just chatting so much, and then I was like, We should just go for a drink, something or so, and then she sent me pictures of Willow that she'd taken when we were chatting, and she said we would actually be really keen to go for a pumpkin. Oh, that's so cute. I know, and they live really close to me as well. I love a little rekindling. We've probably got so much to talk about. I was like, Do you even see anyone anymore? He's like, Not really do you? And I was like, not really, but I feel like once we get into it, there's gonna be so many stories. There's like there's this is the year for it. Like, I don't know, like I haven't seen like some of my friends for ages, and this year I've gone up country and got to spend some time with people that I've like missed so much. It's been so lovely. When I was debating what a New Year's resolution was, instead of it being like my New Year's resolution's little sort of lose six pounds and I don't know, play the guitar. It wasn't like that, it was just do everything and see everything, and just like work on you, but also if you run into someone, don't be like, ah, just have fun. Go away. I'm not in the mood, just be like, this has happened, this must have happened for a reason. Let's make the most of it. Yeah, do everything, see everyone, live your best life, and also work on like working on me is important. This year is about me. Despite the fact that I'm like almost in my 30s, I like actually been like, I've got enough friends. Yeah. I actually am like, oh, I'm in the mood to make some friends. Yes. Because I'm not on a mad one to find new friends and stuff. Yeah, because I love everyone that I've got, but sometimes it's like the fact that I ran into them the other day, and the fact that we were chatting for so long, and then the fact that I was like our dogs were getting along, even though Willow hates everyone, and then was like we were all catching up, and I felt like there was just so much more to say. So nice catching up with people. I have to tell myself, and like I got to see family, which is a fucking rarity for me, real rarity. And I got to see family in the last week, which was really nice. Um I got to see them in my home turf as well. Yeah, yeah, that is I think that's what grew my mind. Like you said it, and I was like, What? Yeah, where? Yeah, in Cornwall? Yeah, yeah. Also, if you're meant to reply to something and you really want to see them, just reply. Just do really funny. Also, if you haven't seen someone for a while and you think, I'd actually like to reconnect, maybe just drop them a little message, see how they feel. And if they say fuck off, that's it, you ain't really lost anything, have you? Yeah, and if you don't have the best time, at least you've got a few pints up. Yeah, I mean it's sunny, it's positive. I think maybe it's just the summer that makes me just do it. Yeah, I think so, because if someone tries to speak to me in the winter, I'll be like, fuck off. Are you taking the pieces? I don't need you, I don't want anything to do with you. Are you a character on Animal Crossing? The sun's been out, so I'm actually not as depressed as I usually am. Literally. I must be our age. We almost just come off the back of a heat wave. Locking in. Sorry about this week, looking in for us. Yeah, all sorry about that. And also, what I was gonna say is we have a friend who is a policeman. I know uh joking. He is actually great, but he is currently a policeman, and he was telling us about a case that's really near to us that's just happened, but I'm not gonna tell you anything else until I've had a conversation with him and then I might do it. Yeah, let's see what happens, and it was just too recent. He'll just give us the forensics, yeah. He's gonna give us the case more before anyone else. It's just one sec, let me ruin my podcast first hand. Yeah, but he was just trying to tell me the gnarly details today, and I was like, stop! I need to write this down at work. Yeah, literally. I'm just no, that would give it away. Okay, yes. So it's 24th of February in Los Angeles in 1986. In where? LA. LA. LA. No, not quite. We're at a quiet condo in the San Fernando Valley San Fernando Bit of a silly goofy time today, isn't it? So the moment I got here, I was just like, Yeah, to be fair, and we just started yapping, literally yapping at short. And he was like, fucking, there's just so much, and he just quietly left the room. Oopsie. Yeah, so anyway, we're in the San Fernando Valley, and then oh, it goes bad quite quickly. So in this quiet condo, it becomes the scene of a murder, so violent, so personal, that even experienced detectives are shaken by it. Jesus. A young nurse is found beaten, shot. The scene shows signs of a brutal struggle. Oh my gosh. But first, please say it's a burglary gone wrong. And it's just wrong place, wrong time. But there's lots of questions like why are the all the expensive items still sitting untouched and inside the home? It's always the way. Why was the attack so furious? Also, why wouldn't you just steal something? Do you know what I mean? If you were someone that you figure out quickly, they do steal something. Okay, they do still want to steal something, then they could find it. Yeah. So I kind of get it. Maybe uh yeah, I'm talking myself out of it. But I just feel like if you're gonna be like, oh, I can make this look like a burglary, then you could just steal something, like the fabric egg. The fabric egg that everybody has in their living room. Get the fabric egg. Why is that the first thing I thought? I don't know. Grandma's ring. Anyway, so we're locking in. Sherry Rasmussen was born on July 29th, 1956. Friends and family described her as intelligent, determined, caring, and incredibly motivated. Imagine that's what people said about you. Incredibly motivated. What does that mean? Intelligent, determined, caring. Oh wonderful. But incredibly motivated. It's like saying that when she gets on the ladder. Is that what that means? Incredibly motivated. Like high resilience. Yeah. Always goes for the PV. We can see that. No. Anyway, so intelligent, determined, caring, and incredibly motivated. She worked as a critical care nurse, to be fair. A job that demanded long hours, calmness under pressure and compassion. She was athletic, competitive, and ambitious. Yeah, so that's what it was. Yeah, like it's like she's fucking driven. Yeah, like no one would say that about me. But if they were gonna say that about me, I feel like I would be like, ouch, because it sounds like I'm like, I'll stop at nothing to get what I'm gonna fucking stamp on any fucker that gets in my way. Whereas it's probably just like from the moment she wakes up, she's like, I have a goal to achieve, and that's saving lives and staying fit. I wouldn't do that. And to be fair, when we talk about her, I feel like actually in this whole bit, when I talk about her, you'll see how fucking ridiculously smart and like she's just yeah. Sherry actually began college at s age 16 after three grades. So two years ahead ahead of everyone else, and by 1980, she actually had a master's in nursing. And she went on to work at and then work at and then be promoted to head nurse at UCLA's coronary coronary I can't say it. Coronary care and observation unit. And while she was doing this, she was also teaching student lectures at the same time. So she's fucking Ambitious. Ambitious as shit. Like she's just like and like by her late 20s, she was actually the director of nursing at Glendale Adventist Medical Centre. Good lord. So she's just fucking pow like hitting every hurdle, getting her degree, getting her master's, then just fucking straight into a job, then she's like fucking doing lectures at the same time, and then all of a sudden by her late 20s, she is a director. Like as well, you can imagine like fucking men in the hospital being like reading about her profile or whatever and being like, she's sorry, she's how old? Yeah. And then being in her presence and being like, oh shit. Yeah, she knows what she is doing. She's here for business. She's on what was I about to say? On business. That's what I was gonna say. She's on business. And what the kids are saying these days. She's business maxly, she's ladder climbing. We're so like fucking millennials trying to be Gen Z. Literally, you said it, and then I was like, ah, she's business maxie. So yeah, she just does is fucking this unstoppable force. Yeah. And then Sherry meets John Rutten at a party in June 1984, and they begin dating shortly after that. Oh my god, yeah. I hate this man already. Riatton, maybe his name is. Riatton. Is he a Riattin? I won't call him a good guy. Uh yeah. Like I wouldn't Yeah, we'll talk about it because obviously, as I always do, have an opinion. So by the mid-1980s, their future seemed pretty set and everything seemed to be like falling into place. But there was someone from John's past who had not moved on. So now we're gonna talk about John Rutten and Stephanie Lazarus. How awkward as well if Stephanie, old Steph's not moved on, and the person that he started seeing is this fucking unstoppable death. Well, Stephanie is no fucking meek woman either. No. So before meeting Sherry, John had actually been in quite a casual relationship with Stephanie Lazarus. They were casual in his eyes, or this is it. Casual to men. Yeah. We know about that, don't we? This is where it all went wrong. Though Stephanie saw it as a relationship, college friends described the relationship as completely casual in nature, but it did seem that maybe Stephanie had taken it a little bit more seriously than Jordan had. But she wasn't just an ex-girlfriend, she was also a police officer. So Stephanie was smart, athletic, highly I've literally lost my place. Authority. Authoritude. Where is she? Highly competitive and already building a career inside the LAPD. So again, don't explain me nothing to be fair. Yeah, not that. She's a bitch. I can get over highly ambitious because it's like in my mind. Because you also said I was kind and caring. And I did, and I got there and I went on this blistering winds and scorching deserts. You can literally say that about someone and be like, they're highly ambitious because they set a personal best and they fucking nailed it every time. But like that. But like she's smart, she's athletic, and she is highly competitive. This bitch won't let it go. I feel like we should just write like a really patronizing coded eulogy for each other. So it's like it's really lovely. Oh my god, it's just something. She was like the worst no, I don't know what to say that's not even it needs to be like underhanded, doesn't it? It could be like, and she was so lovely. Except for that one hair, like such a backhanded compliment. It's like you must have dressed you dressed yourself so well for being in a power cut. I don't know, do you know what I mean? Like for being blind. I don't know. Just something terrible. Yeah. This thing that's like just so coded. Or like, oh, she really made do with the money she had. She really tried. She really tried. That just eulogized you. God loves the trier. Fuck that's she was top of a bottom set class. Yeah, and I'm gonna be thinking about bitching eulogies. Yeah, I just feel like it just needs to be something like, if that happens, I want you to give me a chance. Yeah, if something ever happens to me, I need you to say diabolical things in my humour. I want you to say it so that everyone that's in the audience is just looking at you like, what the fuck? Why did they ask this girl to eulogise her? And at the end you just go like this to me. Bye, bitch. Okay, we've got off task. Yeah, sorry. So off task. Yeah, anyway, so she's a bitch and she's building a career inside the LAPD. Friends later describe her as intense and driven. The thing is, there's like a snippet of time at work where some people that don't know you very well could explain you like that. Because they like Noah. Oh, for sure. Anyone who doesn't know me definitely would describe me as well. And you will literally be like, no, no, you don't do that, you sit down, you fuck off. Yeah. But the like to explain you as an explanation. Yeah. Like nobody's coming in and saying, no, but she's so funny. But she is funny. Nice. Oh, my best mate. Yeah, she was intense. Intense and driven. And I'm like, like, that's all you remember about me. You could at least say I throw hands well. Do you put up a good fight? She's a little teddy bear, but she was also scared. She's big aggressive. She loves a fight, but she also loves love. Yeah. I don't know, just remember something else about me, please. Just saying I'm intense and driven. Hello. This is like when Tom called us the small. Fuck me. And I was so angry. He was like, can't you just take the good sides of it? Yeah. And I was like, I don't want to be smart, I want to be funny. Yeah. And I want to be smart. I'm me. She's Thomas Fuck. But she's hilarious. Oh my god. We need to log in. It's so ridiculous. I'm so sorry for all of this because it's just us fucking screaming down the mic for the last 20 minutes. Anyway, it's so hot in this room as well. Oh no, we're good. Oh, I thought it was open. No, it's fine. Sorry, let's lock in. Yeah, we're locking in. So the relationship between her and John had reportedly lasted several years, and by some account, Stephanie believed that they would eventually marry. It's really awkward, isn't it? Because it's like, what has he been saying to her that's made her think? Oh, you know what he's been saying. They're men, they are men. And they don't think about the consequences of life. Yeah, you see that girl who's literally got no emotion behind her eyes. If she trusts. Probably best not to convince her that you love her. Yeah. Just so you can shag. Yeah, if even her mates are calling her intense, it might be that it's a lot to break down those walls, and you might have done it and then just dropped her. Yeah. Which isn't gonna go. Obviously, not gonna let her go. But yeah, so she believed that they would eventually marry, and eventually John meets Sherry Rasmussen, who's the victim, and the relationship moves really quickly. Friend said that the connection between the two of them felt natural and serious almost immediately. So in November 1985, John and Sherry get married. Oh no, good for them. And to most people, this is just a normal new marriage, but later testimony would paint a different picture behind the scenes. According to witnesses and people close to the couple, Stephanie Lazarus had struggled massively with the breakup. She allegedly continued contacting John, and tension reportedly existed between Stephanie and Sherry from the beginning. So these two know each other. They must have known each other pretty quickly for him to be like this gal's still obsessed, but I like you. Yeah, so and this is how so I John also stop bringing your side bitch to dinner because why does your new partner know this girl? Yeah. Why does she know? It doesn't sound like she's got any friends, so you're not in the running in the same circles. It's not that. Oh god. What are you doing? So one story emerges that Stephanie had actually visited John at his condo just before he moved in with his fiance. She was extremely upset as she said she had not known that he'd been seriously dating and had been basically blindsided by the engagement. Yeah. John said that they had sex to give her closure. In John's words, to give her closure. Oh my god, John. Yeah. Is this like some like fucking uh what's that show called? Jerry's friendly duty. Oh yeah. They were like showing like line of duty when it's like they just they've got like a side piece. It is literally the story in line of duty, so I think that's why it reminded me of it. But like they've got a side piece and then for closure they bang. Yeah. I'm going now, and then they're like, no, don't leave me, and then they like kill her or something like that. Also, there's no such thing as closure. Just like it doesn't exist. Closure is having a normal I say closure, but it just is not a thing. It's not a thing. But having a conversation that's healthy and saying, I just want to know that me and you will always be on the same page. Yeah. Also, being an adult enough to walk in the streets. Stopping speaking to each other. Closure is being adult enough to walk away from a situation knowing that you won't ever have all the answers. Yeah. Like, why did it end? Why didn't he love me the way that he loved her? Yeah. It's accepting it. But you both have to accept it. It's not fucking shagging her. Oh, you're with your fiance. I'm sure she didn't think that shag was for closure. No. And also, if anything, you've just told her that you're susceptible to that shit. Because you are you asked this woman to marry you and you still shagged her. Yeah. Madness. Yeah. It just doesn't mean that. So at some point later in the year, Stephanie visits Sherry at work and told her that she was still sleeping with John, saying, quote, when your marriage fails, I'll be there to pick up the pieces. Oh my god. Sherry, baller, said that won't be necessary. Sorry, let me get back to saving kids' lives. Also, though, Sherry, kick that fucking man to the curb. Yeah. Kick that man to the curb. And then Stephanie basically said to her, if I can't have him, no one can. Okay, okay. So that's the most likely subject. So when returning home, she confronted John and he admitted to the cheating that they still married in that that November. Oh god. Yeah. And Sherry, it's not your C do but fucking I don't know. Just fucking sleeps about. Yeah, and also I really should ask. And I will in a minute, but like I don't know where he goes in the story. I don't want to know. Unless it's bad. Because also, I don't know. Obviously, he is cleared quite quickly as not a suspect. Yeah. But like how can you be so sure? And also, yeah, even if he's got a solid alibi, there still needs to be some recognition of the fact that this is his fault. Yeah. Well, yeah. Sherry Berry wouldn't have been in this situation if he just stopped fucking this woman and told her to actually leave him alone and actually done something about the fact that she was harassing his wife. Yeah, literally. I don't understand that why he's like, Yeah, I was cheating on you. How did you find that out, by the way? Oh, she just came to my work and threatened my life. Yeah. Oh, okay, no worries. Do you still want to marry me? Yeah. Yeah, okay. I'm still gonna text her though. Right now we're talking about oh shit. We're talking about what, two years before she was murdered? Or the year before she was murdered, I think. Is when we're talking about her doing all this stuff. Anyway. Yeah. Oh my god, honestly, just people are just so that's not neurotic behaviour going to the fiance's work and telling her to stay away from your man. Yeah, it's And then saying if I can't have him, no one can. Yeah. And then her being like, Oh, that's how I found out about BT Dubs, and then him being like, uh Yeah, I'm still gonna talk to her. Marry me if you want, I don't care. So one thing became clear during the investigation. Sherry knew about Stephanie, and Stephanie definitely knew about Sherry. Yeah. By late 1985, people thought Stephanie was moving on. She was dating other people and seemingly better. But in January in 1986, she shows up at their condo again. This time asking John to wax her skis. Eh? Yeah. Despite Sherry's protests, John agrees to help her. She showed it with her skis? I guess so. And said, will you wax these? And he said, Yeah, babe. No problem. Even though my wife knows that we fucked while she was my fiancee, and she's saying, no, don't do that. I'm actually blown away. Yeah. Is this man? Do you think he's scared of her? Or do you think he's just I don't know. We don't have a lot of insight into it, but like it feels like. She's a police. Like, so maybe he could be scared of her. I was gonna be like, can't you just ring the police and be like, she's cracked out? Yeah. A police officer. Are they gonna do anything? Yeah, fair. Maybe he is just I just have to do what she says because she's unhinged. Yeah, maybe. But like also you don't have to sleep with her. No, you didn't have to do that. So yeah, he helps her despite Sherry's protests. And later that month. She'll think about the situation, like you should just be really boring as a person. What? If someone's obsessed with you. Yeah. Did you have you ever heard that? I don't know if it's true or not, but there's a story that goes around like Instagram and TikTok and stuff that Robert Patterson had a stalker. So one night he was like bored in his hotel room. So he was like, I'm gonna go out to dinner with her because she was stalking him. So he went out to dinner with her and then he just told her about his whole life and then she stopped talking him because he just store her to death. Yes, this is what I mean. Because it's like how n it just showed her like how fucking normal he was. Yeah, exactly. Like I feel like they're like really like people that are really obsessed with someone. They build up an image of somebody and about this unattainability. And if you're like I'm not saying if you've got a stalker to go to dinner with them because like I actually think he might get killed. Like, I I don't think that's necessarily the case. I also I feel like if if someone was gonna stalk me, it would be because they probably didn't know me. Because I think there's a difference between the I the idol stalking, so like the celebrity, and like maybe in a safe setting, if you sat down with them and got let them know you as a person, they might get become uninterested because it's about this unattainability. However, this is about a woman who is in love with him and he doesn't reciprocate. But maybe he should just change who he is as a person so that she's not in love with him anymore. No, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, isn't she? I don't she's in love with the idea of him, isn't she? So it doesn't really match. Go for it. I don't actually have photos of them, so sorry. But I will put them on Instagram. Yeah. So later that month, Sherry found Stephanie in the couple's condo. In Stephanie. Is that him? That's Sherry. Yeah, she's got fucking crazy eyes to be fair. See what I mean? When I didn't even have to know what she got to say. Yeah, super mid. They're always mid men that get up to this nonsense. Later that month, Sherry comes home to find Stephanie in the couple's condo in full uniform, gun and all. Sherry confided in her father that she thought Stephanie was stalking her. So, now we're going to the day of the murder. So it's the 24th of Feb 1986. It's January 1986 when she shows up asking about the wax keys. There's not a lot of time between. The day of the murder begins completely normally. John leaves for work at around 7.20 in the morning and Sherry stays at home. She was actually due to deliver a presentation, but said to John that she may call in sick to work because she'd hurt herself at aerobics the day before. So, like she had a back injury and she wasn't massively interested in giving this presentation. So she was like, I might just call in sick. Yeah, fair. At 9 45 am, a neighbour notices that the garage door at their condo is open, but the car's not there. Okay. And then not long after this, John begins calling home intermittently to no answer. And he thinks it's really weird because, like, usually when they go out, their routine is like they plug in the answering machine. So like he's not getting answering machine, it's just like ringing out. It feels like she didn't go to the colour. But she didn't plug in the answering machine, so surely she's but she's obviously not at home because she's not answering phone. Yeah. Yeah. And then basically, John goes home, does his day at work, is trying to call and stuff, and there's other people that try to call, like I think her sister or sister-in-law or something tries to call as well, but nobody gets any answer. And then John returns home and he walks into what investigators initially described as a burglary scene. Yes. Sekondo looked partially ransacked, drawers had been opened, items were scattered, and then he walks into the living room and he finds Sherry. She's lying on the floor surrounded by blood, and the attack on her had been really savage. So Sherry had been beaten repeatedly, shot multiple times, and she showed cleared signs of having fought desperately for her life. Oh my god. Yeah. Um, and this was not an instant killing. Like somebody had drawn this out. Um which feels personal. That's not a burglary. No burglary is you thinking that someone is not in, yeah, and then seeing that someone is in. And shooting them. And being like, fuck, bang. Yeah. And shooting them a couple times. Not even get up close and passes. Because usually you're not longing out a burglary. Like, it just feels personal. Yeah. It feels like oh and that I think is like what a lot of people feel about it, like when they first hear about it. But they're like, but it feels personal. It doesn't feel like a burglary. So the scene suggested panic, violence, and close physical struggle. 8 a.m. So early in the morning. Also, they live in a gated community. How did nobody see but do you know what I mean? Like it's so weird. So one detail that was especially weird and stood out, there was a bite mark on Sherry's body. My god. Yeah, my god. Again, how are you telling me that's not personal? Like, how are you biting somebody? I'm biting anyone. I would bite Tom. Exactly. I'll bite people that I know. Yes, people that I'd be doing it in like a joking way. In a murderous way. But if I don't know, I wouldn't bite a stranger. And I wouldn't bite anyone without being fucking furious at that point. Yeah, you wouldn't have to be like in a rage, bite somebody. So it also that's got like DNA. It just feels like it's like you can't even help yourself. Do you know what I mean? Although I do think that if I went into a murderous rage, I would bite someone. I used to bite my sister all the time. I used to bite my sister like 24-7. Yeah, I used to bite people. And we always joke that's why my canines are so sharp. Yeah, mine are like little fucking daggers. Yeah, and they used to make people bleed. Yes. I used to make my sister bleed. That was like my move whenever she started fighting me. And I'd just bite her until she bled. To be fair, I think one time I got dropped off, I got a phone call home to my parents from my nursery because biting people. No, because I had bite marks all over me and it was my brother. And they were like, I don't know what's happening, but there's like a safeguarding issue going on because apparently I was like going for a wee and I was like, I just lifted up my top, and they were like, My brother had just bit me though. Jesus. So it's just such a fun thing to do when you're like, do you know what I mean? Yeah. If anyone's trying to wind me up, I'll just fucking yeah, literally, when Tom's winding me up, I literally start going like that. She was like, sorry, yeah, so they find the bite mark. And at the time, forensic science is nowhere near what it would become later. But they do collect the biological evidence from the scene. Like they don't know where it's gonna take them, but they collect it. The best way to be. Yeah. So if it doesn't go anywhere, just get it all. And that evidence was at was actually become one of the most important pieces of the case. So in the original investigation, almost immediately the investigators begin leaning towards the theory of burglary gone wrong. According to this explanation, burglars entered the condo, Sherry interrupted them, violence erupted, and the intruders killed her before fleeing. Psh, pshh, psh, pshh, pshh, pshh, psh. Fuck. Yeah, at first glance, parts of the scene appeared to support that idea. A maid working nearby had reported hearing uh what sounded like fighting at around midday coming from the direction of Sherry and John's condo. However, she didn't report it as she hadn't heard gunshots and thought it was a domestic dispute. I just thought it was a man beating his wife. I who am I to get involved? Yeah, honestly, the second I hear anything, I'm like, really Yeah. Hello, police. Hello, police. Get those taxpayers' bucks to work, will you? Some man next door laughed too loud. Didn't like it, sounded menacing. Um Yeah, I just think if you what you think it was a domestic situation, get involved. It's better to it's so interesting as well, isn't it? Because we always talk about how you should like lie on your gut, but clearly sounds like she was like, that's nothing. Bad gut that I guess it's America. I was like, who's waiting for gunshots? This is it. We don't live in the same kind of place. If we heard gunshots, I guess we live in farm country, like next door, far far away. They keep having fucking bad arguments. And like the start, I thought they were having arguments with someone that lives further down because he's a little cutie, but like a bit of wild card. And he built a whole shed the other day, and then now it's gone. I don't know where it's gone. We just took it down. I I'm worried. What do you mean? I don't know. I just always walk Willow past there, and it was just building, and then yes, a couple days ago, I was like, Yeah, that's gone. Anyway, I thought they were shouting at him because she was like, Don't look through the window at me. And I was like, Oh my god, who's looking through my window at me? Me and Willow were like peeping out the window, like, what's happening? Anyway, the other day they were having a screaming argument, but I could see both of them. She was like stood in the garage and he was stood at the front door and they were both having a sick, screaming at each other, and I was like, What do you see if any it escalates? I can literally see them. But they just randomly scream and then the other night they were screaming at each other about something, and she was like, And then he was like, and then they slammed the front door, they just turned all the lights off and the whole that was like, I don't want to see you. I don't want to see you done looking at you. Just literally pulls the fucking and like fucking trips everything on the cuts the electricity. I can't even bear to look at you right now. I can't bear to look at you. Yeah, but me and Willow were just looking outside because she always like wakes up and she's like, Yeah, there's fucking beef going out like that. TV and we were both like curtain curtain twitches. Like I'm immediately looking at the water. And because they're like, we've got like a path, and then it's like a drop-down to their house, so my window on this on the second floor can see in see their front door. But even that, like even them just being like, you fuck off, no, you fuck off. I'm like, should I ring the police? Like, at what point do I ring the fucking police? And that's like just I can see them, and they're just arguing with each other, and it's just and then one time I thought they were having an argument, and then she just went like afterwards. It's just the way they speak to each other. I was like, maybe they are just like that. That's so unsettling to be fair. Like, I do it should be like, Do I call the police? Don't I? Um Yeah, so she doesn't call the police, and but from very early on, uh, Sherry's family feel that there's something deeply wrong with the investigation. Her father, in particular, reportedly became convinced this was personal, and the scene did raise questions because although the condo looked disturbed, several valuable items remain untouched. So electronics, expensive belongings, items burglars would normally take were all in plain view and didn't seem to be disturbed or taken, and the violence felt really excessive, it was united. The injuries suggest that someone's full of rage. I know, and also the fact that you're doing it midday in like a cul-de-sac where there's people that have literally heard you having a fight. You if you were just trying to kill someone that had seen you, you would do that a lot quicker and you'd be out the way. Like this is like care if someone finds me, I want this to be. Also, maybe you'd throw a couple fucking shots or a couple punches if they got too close, but like why what in what world would she have got too close? And then like, but you wouldn't go excessive because you would just be like, I'm getting out of there. I not to the point where you get close enough to fucking bite them. Yeah, jeez. What the fuck? So if they haven't taken anything, it's not fucking burglary. Yeah, so the only thing that was missing is Sherry's car. Oh. But that's it. Nothing else is missing. Oh my god, do you don't think she was in there all night? Oh. No, she couldn't have been because John left for work at 7.20 in the morning. Unless you believe that John knew a bit. It was in on it. Yeah, it was in on it. God, this is so interesting. Because if she's in a gate community, then she can't just get in. Unless she got in when he's a police officer. She can do whatever she wants. She could just get in fall, hasn't she? Yeah. It's bold that she's just strolled in. But also, I guess if you I would think I'd notice a police officer wandering around my gate. They don't have to be She just has to show a badge at the gate. So true. So maybe she's got in like that, strolled through as if she's just some rando strolling through. She's killed, and then she's stolen the car to get out. Because a woman walking around your neighbourhood probably wouldn't be that out of place. Yeah, and if someone was driving someone's car that you saw leave the place every single day. It's a bold move though. Bold fucking move. I can just go and get in someone else's car and drive off and not notice that it's not cherry. That's how you know Americans don't drive manual. Sorry, I've just got to get used to the biting point. Just reving your fucking outside someone's house. Go get me revs up! Just jumping. Someone tries to drive my car, I'd be like, fucking hell! She doesn't like being in second. Fucking hell. We don't realise that they have to unlock mine 15 times to actually get in there. So yeah, Sherry's family are the ones who bring up uh Stephanie's harassment, and then John doesn't mention Stephanie until the second police interview where they basically sale about any partners, like previous partners and stuff, and then he says, like it's been a month since she fucking means. He mentions her in the second police interview, fine, but he fails to mention that he slept with her. Oh my god. Yeah. You just need to be like, that's my wife. Here's the facts. Sorry about infidelity. Infidelity, yeah. Sorry about that, but this is what I've done. Yeah. She might have done it. She might have done it. It's very likely she literally came, showed up at our house again this month. Yeah. So investigators dig into Sherry and John's lives, and obviously the topic of Stephanie Lazarus surfaces time and time again. She's his ex-girlfriend, she's a police officer. Someone witnesses described it as possibly still emotionally invested in John. But according to critics of the investigation, the jealousy angle was never pursued. Even though someone fucking bit her, bro. So over time, many people begin to ask the same uncomfortable question. Did LAPD go easy on one of their own? The department denies any wrongdoing, but years later, when retired investigators would have eventually admitted that mistakes may have been made. And as the years passed, the case slowly goes cold. So the case goes absolutely silent, and obviously, for Sherry Rasmussen's family, life is all about like before the murder and after it, and that defines everything they do. There's no arrest, no answers, nothing. Yeah, and you're just like, if you'd just done better at the start. So while all this is going on, the years are passing, and Stephanie Lazarus is building her career inside the LAPD, and she's getting some acclaim while she's doing it. Like she's she's I also if you it is her and she's got away with it, that's the next steps. The next steps is to make yourself untouchable. Untouchable because you get it. Doesn't mean I'll get away with it forever, doesn't mean I won't do this again. Yeah. I need to be untouched. So while this murder case sits unsolved, Stephanie works investigations, she earns promotions, and she builds a r a reputation as a respective respected sorry detective. Gross. Yeah. Gross. So you've literally potentially killed someone that was saving babies. Yeah? She was like, she was the a director of nursing. She would have done crazy fucking things. And you snuffed her life out because you wanted to bang her husband, grow up. So in 2004, so this was 86. Wow, 28 years later. 20 years later. 28 years later. So 28 years later, cold case detectives reopen Jerry Resnuton's murder investigation. And by then, forensic science has changed dramatically. So DNA testing is way more advanced, and investigators begin carefully reviewing old evidence, so like biological samples, witness statements, crime scene details, and the original theories. A bite mark on Sherry was of particular interest as they felt certain that connecting DNA to this, they would find the killer, knowing she'd suffered it at the time of the attack. Dental mark. But I think so the one thing to note is other biological samples they'd have of Sherry. Turns out she had it was like some rare and strange blood type that made it look like it was contributed by two different people. But actually the DNA was both Sherry. So there was basically every sample they had, every sample they had was exactly except the bite mark was Sherry. Sherry's DNA that was showing up as different DNA DNA, but actually turns out it was all her. Obviously, because you had to wait for it to get more advanced, it would have been really hard to decipher. But by 2004, it's an it's enough. At first, they could not locate the bite mark DNA. She's tried to fucking L. Jesus. The sample collected was thought to be lost, but basically what happened is it was essentially never logged when records were digitalized. And this didn't stop her name is Jenny Francis, little fucking legend. This didn't stop Jenny Francis. She was like, no, we're gonna keep looking. And they basically find the DNA sample at the back of a freezer. Yeah. Even though it wasn't digitalized, they're just like fucking shit away. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So she keeps she perseveres and she finds it, she finds sample. And they put it into CODIS, which is the combined DNA index system. Wow. Which they use in America, but they have no look. So there's no one on there that's incarcerated who has because that's what it is. It's prisoners' DNA in the world. And that's given it, yeah, freely or not freely, once you've been arrested. So that's what it has. So it means that they're not a convict, the person that can contributed this DNA. Arrest convicts. So yeah. So the lab, I think police officers should have to do it. I think police should have to do it. Yeah, absolutely. I think if you want to be a police officer, you should have to put your DNA into the co the that system. Yeah, I agree. Because then if you commit a crime, yeah. Straight on everyone's wavelength. Yeah. And then radar. Radar. And then also Because also people like that people like that want to be in positions of power. Yeah, so that they can control everything that's happening. I just think that there's some people that want to do good. Fine, put your fucking DNA on there. Put your DNA in there. No problem. Put your DNA in there. Yeah, I can't believe that. So, lab technician, Jenny Francis. Who had been doing the testing had not obviously got a match from Codus, but had determined that it was a female that was not Sherry that had contributed the DNA. So she starts going through the case files and she comes across a vague report of a third-party female who has harassed Sherry. Now there's a story in there somewhere about someone that worked for Sherry, a nurse, who was angry that she hadn't got a promotion. So that's what Danny Francis thought the third-party female was. That was it about someone harassing Sherry. There was nothing else in the file. Nothing else. Even though multiple conversations have been had. About the people who had bought up Stephanie Lazarus, and there was definitely a lot about her, but there was nothing really in the files about her. Which means that either it's been taken out or it's been told to be left out, or it was never logged in the first place. So Francis, apparently, not knowingly, but asks an investigator, so like a police officer that she's working alongside. Yeah. She basically quite vaguely says, Oh, do you know any more information about this third-party female that's harassing Sherry? Talking about the nurse. What Stephanie, the head of the talking about the nurse, but what they say is, Oh, the LAPD detective who dated the victim's husband. Imagine being this on the phone and being like, sorry, what did you just say? And you're like, Do you know what I've done? I've just done some fucking police work right now. Like I've literally just. I'm just a lab technician. Yeah, I'm just a gal that found some missing DNA, tested on it, and all of a sudden I'm coming back and I'm saying, what about this? And they're saying, What that? And you're saying, Oh my god, the plot thickens. Make a film about this gal. But then, so they say, Yeah, what the LAPD detective who dated the victim victim's husband. No, she wasn't part of this. Shouldn't we say anything in the as they revisited this case? Stephanie Lazarus once again becomes impossible to ignore, but somehow they do. So no detective would pick up this case. And I think she's quite marked. I think fucking Jenny Francis' Little Legend is making notes, but she can't get anybody to pay attention to the case. Or other police officers being like, I can't go down that route. A lab tech, they're gonna be like no one's picking this up. No one's looking into it, and no one, even though there's so much evidence, and now they're talking about female DNA on a bite mark, and they're not even looking into the one female, one or two females who were maybe harassing Sherry. So then what happens is it goes dead again, and that's that. Until March 2008, Jim Nuttle found two cases near his desk one morning, one of them being Sherry's. I like to think Jenny fucking Francis has put has gone to Van Oye's fucking police department and said, fuck this shit and put Sherry's parrot right now. Let me pick a detective who is not friends with Stephanie, doesn't know anything about Stephanie. She's probably been like from one person looking for justice to another who will work a couple of not corrupt, who cares, and who wants to actually do what these jobs are put in place for. She's snuck in, I bet she's like snuck past the little things. She's like probably slid in behind someone else, she's just slipped it on the desk and she's just walked straight away. She's walked away. And I don't know, uh there's nothing to say, no evidence to say she's done that. But I like to believe that she did that. Yeah. So he finds these two uh coal cases near his desk one morning, and when he starts looking into it, he is like, There is plenty of evidence to solve this case. Like, there is no reason we should not be looking into this. So him and his partner, Pete Barber, wholeheartedly agree that this is not a burglary. That immediately they're looking for it and they're like, There's no way, there's just too much stuff left at the scene, it's too personal, it's too hateful, there's just no way. Also, like the fact that I'm not saying that females can't burgle, but nothing is missing to know. Yeah. Except obviously a car, but you wouldn't kill someone if you could steal the car, you'd just steal their car. Yeah. Like that's outside the house. You don't even need to go in. Bro. Yeah. Bite marks feel so personal. So personal. That is actually wild because it's a good thing. Who fucking bites someone? Unless you actually know who they are and hate them. And you hate them. Or love them. Or love them. Yeah. So soon investigators eliminated all but one suspect. And I'd like to say, the nurse who didn't get the promotion, they did covertly collect her DNA. And that's how they decided that she was not part of us. So they did their bit. Everyone that was mentioned there, like, give me, they apparently made a list of like five or six potential women because they knew it was a female that it could be. And they could be people she crossed off. It could be people that she fell out with in her past. It could be anything, really. And they crossed off everyone, but who do we think? Stephanie. Bucking. Lazarus. Yes. And then they're like, are we going for the big guns? Is that what's happening? Are we going to give them? Which means one thing. They need Stephanie's DNA. Yeah. And they're like, they don't want to confront her. Because she's a police officer. She knows the jig. She can shut it down. She's got friends. Yeah. Her husband works in the same police department as these two men that are investigating her. This is literally like a line of judicial. So they're like, we've got to be fucking covert. Yeah. So I didn't actually look into how they covertly grab it, but basically, eventually they get her. They get the DNA and they're like, fucking guests. Imagine her husband's coming into work, like, my wife made me these sandwiches this morning. And they're just looking at each other like, get the sandwich. Get the topperware. And then while they're doing this, so while there's a team out there trying to get her fucking DNA from like public bins or fucking straws or whatever, while they're doing that, they're also like, do you know what we're gonna do? Is police officers have guns that they are given while they're at work. Yeah. But they also, I think, in America, are required to have a secondary weapon, a personal weapon. Yeah. But they have to register it. Yeah. Their personal weapon. So they're like, we're gonna look into her around the time of the murder. And what they discover is that around the time of the murder, Stephanie has a 38-caliber weapon registered to her, which is the same caliber used on Sherry. And you know what happens? 13 days after the murder, she reports that gun missing. Fucking hell. Yeah. How is that happening? And during the investigation, they are like, so she's gonna be. It would have to be, it would have to be a day off for her. Couldn't be while she was on duty. Yeah. Because if she was on duty, she'd have to use her gun on duty. And apparently there's like really severe penalties for like losing your gun. And if she wants she used her duty gun, she'd have to throw it and then she'd get the penalty. So it had to be a day off because it had to be her personal weapon. So so they're like, was she working that day? And no, she fucking wasn't. So it is her. Yeah. So they're like, Oh my god, this is actually crazy, isn't it? It's like you give someone in power two guns. Yeah. And then you just don't know what they're doing with that other gun. Then they reported missing during the time that someone that everybody knows she was stalking dies. And nothing happens. Obviously, you just think you can't. They don't even look into you. So you just obviously think you can do whatever you want. And it like with the LAPD, that's probably a reputational thing because obviously it is looks bad for them if a police officer has murdered somebody. So the DNA comes back and it's a fucking match. So it directly connects Stephanie Lazarus. I bit her. Yeah, I fucking bit her and then I left her alive. You just went in and bit her and just walked off. So after more than two decades, investigators finally had physical evidence pointing directly to Stephanie Lazarus. So, but now they're like, this is an LAPD detective. We have got to be so strong, clever about that. But also, you also need to get her in the room, and you can't let her have a sniff of why she's in the room. So they're like, Alright, she's had 20 years in 2009. She's probably got some shit to say. She's thought about this. So it's 2009, and they're like, We invite Stephanie Lazarus in to an informal conversation, and she's just gonna help us on a cold case. That's what we're telling her. We think that she might be able to help us on a cold case. But wouldn't you be like Yeah, but she one, she's got away with this for a couple of decades now. She's like, it's not gonna be that one, and she thinks she can probably talk away out of a room. So even if it is that one, she could be like probably fine. I did use to date her maybe. She also is convinced that the LAPD are not coming for her because they're her people. Yes. So they get her into the room, and the clever thing is like that means at the desk she has to give up her gun and her badge and stuff because she's going to an interrogation room. You can watch it. Oh my god, I'm gonna watch it. You can fucking watch it. So at first she seems really relaxed, she jokes, she talks casually, acts like a fellow investigator just helping out in all file. Yeah. But the detectives slowly start to like tighten the fucking reins. And they're obviously not bringing out the Trump card straight away. So they're like trying to get her to give her, not give her a chance, but like, you know, they're trying to say, Oh, do you think we've got you? Do you think we've got you? Watch what she does, watch how she tries to. And they're making you feel like you've volunteered to be here, so you're just helping out. So they start to they mention Sherry, and then they mention John, and they're like, and when they start to do this, her demeanour starts to change. She's not as relaxed as she was before. She becomes quite defensive, bit nervous, and she's not really answering questions properly, she's quite evasive, and then she starts to laugh a bit awkwardly. Yeah, it smells like guilt, my friend. At other moments, she says, I don't remember. She just doesn't remember details. I need to act casual. Yeah. And I wrote this the interrogation is now famous online because viewers can visibly watch the pressure build in real time while they're doing this. Yes, we definitely will. So then they're like, Okay, Sherry, what if we've got your DNA? What if we said that we've got your DNA? What would you do? What would you do if we said that we have that? It's still not even saying that they've got it. It's still just saying, like, how would you react to that? It wouldn't work. And then she goes, I think she says something like, Maybe you could have my DNA. Yeah. And they're saying, like, can we get your DNA? Because what if we said we've got your DNA? Like, they're going down anyway. Like, why can't you just I guess this doesn't matter? It's fucking admitted, innit? Yeah. Either just be like, yeah, it is, or be like, there's no way. There's just no way. You know how I guess that is the thing, is this shows how interview works. Shouldn't have bitter, then should you bitch? I know. I bet she regrets that. Yeah. I bet she sits there thinking if I just hadn't. If I just hadn't fucking bitter bitter. Yeah. Because the reality is if she hadn't bitter, she probably wouldn't be sat there. She wouldn't. So then from that point onwards, the tone completely shifts. And it's like watching someone slowly realise the walls are closing. She had no idea that she was walking into a trap, and then by the time it's too late and she's just fucked. Yeah. So it goes to trial, and the prosecutors argue that Stephanie Lazarus never truly accepted losing John. According to their theory, she went to the condo to confront Sherry, an argument escalated, violence exploded, and then Stephanie ultimately murdered her in a rage. Okay. So that's why it doesn't feel like it was particularly well thought out. She maybe didn't necessarily go there to kill her. To kill her, yes. Maybe went there to scare her and be like, get away from my man again. But like. Or even went there because she thought that they'd both be at work. And you know how people that are stalkers do that sometimes. Break into their house. Remember the time about when I said she was stood there in full uniform with gun and everything. Maybe that she didn't go there intentionally to kill her. But that's what it escalated to. And maybe Sherry was just like, Well, you get a fucking quit, maybe leave this house. Just get alive. What did you just fucking say to me? Yeah, and maybe John the whole time has been the one that's like, No, calm down, I'll sleep with you both later. Yeah. So after that all happened, the prosecutors believe that she staged the scene to resemble a burglary. The prosecu prosecution painted the murder as intensely personal and emotionally driven. So, in this trial, this begins in 2012, and obviously it's been so long. The media is all over it. They are like loving this. And they are like, this story is about power, but also institutional loyalty, and whether a police department failed to properly investigate one of its own officers or covered it up. Jurors heard DNA evidence, witness testimony, details about Stephanie's relationship with John, and clips from the now famous interrogation. Yeah. And the prosecution focused heavily on motive. So jealousy, rejection, and unresolved obsession. The defence argued investigators had developed tunnel vision so that they decided it was her and that was that. Despite the fact that they did cut out all those other women. Decided it was a burglary. The evidence was circumstantial. She bit her. Her DNA was there. That makes sense. And the case relied too heavily on assumptions about Stephanie's emotional state. She had a diary. Yeah. She had a fucking diary. Okay, great. They had a j she had a diary, they found it. It was all about John Runn. No. Oh my god, just no. They're not making assumptions, they can read it in her own words. So ultimately, the jury side with the prosecution. In 2012, Stephanie Lazarus is convicted of first-degree murder, and she is sentenced to 27 years to life in prison. More than 25 years after Sherry Rasmussen was killed, her family finally had an answer. And there are though still quite a lot of uncomfortable questions around the. Where's the gun? Yeah. Where did he go? What has justice been delayed as well? Are we okay with the fact that they had 20 years just walking about and living her best life? Like, how do we know she didn't do something else? Yeah. Would the case have been different if she wasn't a police officer? This is so detrimental as well because we get this where people that have put people away as police officers, it's like they're covering up loads and loads of shit this whole time. Yeah. But it does make you wonder wonder about how many. And they get away with it. Yeah. Are you planting things on other people? Are you fucking up other people's hearings? Do you know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of Sarah Everard. Everything that came out of the Sarah Everard case with the amount of sexual abuse and harassment that was happening in amongst the police force that just didn't nothing was happening about it. Yeah. And just didn't even try. Because it was uncomfortable. Yeah. And awkward. And probably the worst thing about it is that for decades, while Sherry Rasmussen's family waited for answers, this woman eventually convicted of a murder, walked around police stations every day as a respected detective. Who was probably giving speeches about how she's climbed the ladder and how she's done this and that? I don't know where she is now. Um It's just so bad, isn't it? You've got one family waiting 20. Can you imagine 20 years? That is insane. Yeah, I cannot. And knowing she is still alive. Okay. 66 years old. Looks like she's still in prison and also still married. Oh. Jokes on that lad. And she keeps having her parole denied. Looks like since that was the last article was February 2025. So they're still fucking done, don't they? At least after all that time, they need to be like, She's gone away. We need to at least not let her get out on good behaviour. She's so pretty. I bet she was an absolute delight. Yeah, I bet. She sounds like a fucking force to be reckoned with. I just find it so crazy that people are just allowed to do things like that. Do you know what I mean? Not allowed, obviously, you're not allowed, but like people. There's nothing physically stopping people from being like that. Just taking someone's life because I'm not sure. I literally cannot find a single thing about her husband. He sounds like he's moved on. He sounds like he wasn't really around, and he was like, I can't believe we had to wait 23 years for justice. Yeah, maybe you shouldn't have cheated. If I if I was related to Sherry, I would literally be fuming at that man. Yeah. I would be so angry. And I just know I shouldn't, but like, I know it's not his fault because he didn't do it, but like I just am not that forgiving. Yeah. But it's also just a long stem of him cheating on her and then her getting killed by someone that was a psycho for him. Yeah. It's just like maybe if you just sort of reported her and left her alone. Yeah. Anyway, that's that. That's the case. Wild one. That was a wild one. That was like a line of duty season. Yeah. I I'm guessing line of duty stole that. Yeah, surely. But yeah, that is. That's what the whole show is about. It's just corrupt. Police officers doing all over the stuff. Fucking wild shit. And like every time I'm like, oh god, it's so unbelievable, so unrealistic. And I'm like, no, it's not. That actually does happen quite a lot, just not that often in the same office. Not just like anti corruption, just like running around their neighbourhood, just being like, oh, another one. Rock Disney Lazarus interview going. We're gonna go make some food and then we'll back. Love you, bye!