Brenda Spencer

This week, we're traveling to San Diego, California, in the late 1970s, where a seemingly ordinary Monday morning would become the scene of a tragedy that shocked the nation.

On January 29, 1979, children were arriving at school when gunfire suddenly erupted from a house across the street. The shooter was just 16 years old: Brenda Spencer. Armed with a rifle, she opened fire on students, teachers, and first responders, turning a quiet neighborhood into a nightmare.

As the standoff unfolded, investigators struggled to understand why it had happened. There was no personal vendetta, no clear target, and no warning that such violence was about to occur. Then came a chilling explanation. Five words that would become infamous around the world.

We'll explore Brenda Spencer's troubled upbringing, the events of that devastating morning, and the lasting impact the attack had on school safety and public perceptions of youth violence.

So grab a drink, settle in... because this case is a disturbing reminder that some of the darkest chapters in true crime begin without any obvious motive at all.

Transcript

Speaker 2 0:20

Honestly, I'm switched... I've just fucking chugged a protein shake, and now I'm onto back to my glass of wine Some charisma. Literally. It's made it taste like shit, but it's fine. Anyway, welcome to Kill The Mood Podcast. We're here to talk to you about everything spooky dooky. We are not professionals, and we mean no offense in anything we say. This is just us trying to make sense of the senses. Without further ado, this week's case is...

Speaker 0:43

Brenda Spencer, which is an iconic one. Iconic is maybe the wrong word. It's gone down in history.

Speaker 2 0:52

She's a fucking icon.

Speaker 0:54

She's the most iconic... She is my idol. No, I'm joking.

Speaker 2 0:57

Yeah,

Speaker 0:57

no. She's not.

Speaker 2 0:58

If you're saying that, then you need some serious bout of therapy

Speaker 1:02

Literally. But she has sparked a lot of famous things. And it's actually quite... Do you know it

Speaker 2 1:09

I do know a little bit about her and about her circumstances.

Speaker 1:15

Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:16

I know a little bit.

Speaker 1:17

Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:18

But not massive. But I do know exactly what she did.

Speaker 1:21

Yeah. I feel like it's just a bit of a whirlwind, but I think it's just also baffling. And also, I think that it's not... It's one of the first mass shootings or spree killings of a school One of the first ever potentially recorded in the US

Speaker 2 1:39

Which is fucking wild, 'cause now they have one every week.

Speaker 1:42

Yeah. But I think it's not classed as it because she wasn't on school grounds

Speaker 2 1:47

Okay.

Speaker 1:47

I think it's like-

Speaker 2 1:48

Cause she was off the property shooting onto it.

Speaker 1:51

Yeah, exactly. So there's other things where people walk into their school and shoot up their school- on a school day.

Speaker 2 1:57

she wasn't a student of the school.

Speaker 1:58

Yeah. So it's like the circumstances are a little bit different, but it's still like one of the first- Mass shootings yeah, spree killings of a primary school, especially like 'cause she's a female and she's super young

Speaker 2 2:12

These logs are mesmerizing, aren't they? I know. We've put a crackling fire on the TV because we've moved location- Yeah like we do every now and then. Because we're trying to be respectful to my housemate- who's probably got work, and it's quarter to midnight. Quarter to midnight.

Speaker 2:29

God, we're gonna

Speaker 2 2:30

So we were like, "Oh, we'll move downstairs so we're not sat like right next to his room-" chatting shit this late at night. And now we've got, logs on the enormous TV in the living room, and it's fucking lulling me. This- Like it's like- I guess it's like- a siren call

Speaker 2:44

yeah, it is quite-

Speaker 2 2:45

Like I'm gonna walk into the fire.

Speaker 2:46

Yeah. It is quite mesmerizing. It's also like I'm so used to watching the recording sound waves on the thing.

Speaker 2 2:54

Yes.

Speaker 2:55

And now that I'm watching this instead... Also, that first log seems so far forward, don't you think?

Speaker 2 2:59

It does. It's also- 2D I don't like looking at it too much 'cause it's making me feel sick.

Speaker 3:02

Yeah, fair. We can turn it off.

Speaker 2 3:05

No, I'm loving it.

Speaker 3:06

Okay.

Speaker 2 3:06

It is- Here

Speaker 3:07

it is

Speaker 2 3:07

in

Speaker 3:07

case you

Speaker 2 3:07

feel sick lulling me in though. It... Get off the screen.

Speaker 3:11

It's gonna

Speaker 2 3:11

stress me out. You just

Speaker 3:12

start getting like seasickness. But with flames.

Speaker 2 3:14

But with flames.

Speaker 3:15

Oh. Oh, maybe

Speaker 2 3:16

I'd like to be at sea.

Speaker 3:17

Right now?

Speaker 2 3:18

Yeah. Wild. Yeah. Anyway, carry on.

Speaker 3:22

We just fall asleep. Yes, Brenda Spencer, some of you may know of her. Some of you may know things that have stemmed from this whole story. But we're just gonna go in. So this is the Cleveland Elementary School shootings, and this is actually where the song by the Boomtown Rats, which is an Irish band, and the lead singer is Bob Geldof they- Never heard of them. They made I Don't Like Mondays because of this song. It stemmed. And it goes, "Tell me why I don't like Mondays. Tell me why I don't like Mondays."

Speaker 2 4:06

With more tune. And Amy came into work this morning, and one of our favorite little beans from work- was singing it. Like she fucking psychically pulled it out of-

Speaker 4:16

Yeah

Speaker 2 4:17

Amy's head.

Speaker 4:17

And then she was singing it. So I'd just finished doing the research literally last night, and then I had it in my head last night. And I came into work, and she was just singing it. And I was like, "Why are you singing that?" And she was like, "I can't tell you." And I was like-

Speaker 2 4:31

it is al- it's, it was also Monday, and we were all at work

Speaker 4:35

today-

Speaker 2 4:35

Yeah early

Speaker 4:36

And she said, "I can't tell you," because apparently there's an iconic scene in The Handmaid's Tale, which I'm watching at the moment- For the first time, and she's watched it twice even though it's six seasons long- Oh my God. Why? and really harrowing. But she is "It's so good that you'll fully appreciate it." And she was like, "You have to watch it," blah, blah, blah. And she couldn't tell me why she was singing it because she'd been thinking about a scene from it. But I thought for a second that she'd already seen you and you'd said, "Oh, I'm gonna do Brenda Spencer later." But don't tell Amy.

Speaker 2 5:03

Yeah.

Speaker 5:04

And I was like, "No, Beth, why?" I was like, "You have to tell me why. You have to tell me." And she was like, "Okay. It's because of The Handmaid's Tale." And I was like, "Oh." I was like, it's just so weird 'cause I literally last night was just writing the notes like, "Tell me why, tell..." And then she was just singing it. And I was like, "Okay." But she knew this whole story, and Beth doesn't like things-

Speaker 2 5:24

Oh

Speaker 5:24

that are spooky. And she knows this because it is just, it's such a big deal because the song was inspired by something that's actually quite fucked up. Yeah, really fucked up. But it was still number one in 30 countries across the world when it came out in 1979. But it was actually banned in the States-

Speaker 2 5:41

Yeah, I'm

Speaker 5:41

not

Speaker 2 5:42

surprised

Speaker 5:42

because... Yeah. So it... And managed to become number one in loads of other places, but the US were like- No "Oh, that's disrespectful." Yeah. But I think other people just didn't know why.

Speaker 2 5:52

I need to look at the lyrics You can continue.

Speaker 5:57

Yeah, maybe we should just have a little... I feel like I'm, there's so much more tune to what I'm singing as well. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 6:10

The silicon chip inside her head gets switched to overload. And nobody's gonna go to school today, she's gonna make them stay home Oh, my God. And daddy doesn't understand it, he always said she was good as gold. He can see no reasons, 'cause there are no reasons. What reason do you need to be shown? I don't like Mondays, tell me why.

Speaker 6:40

That's such like a-

Speaker 2 6:42

wanna shoot all the whole day down"

Speaker 6:45

I wanna shoot all the whole day down. Oh my God.

Speaker 2 6:46

The telex machine is kept so clean, and it types to a waiting world. Her mother feels so shocked, father's world is rocked, and their thoughts turn to their own little girl." Jesus. "Sweet 16 and that peachy keen. Now it ain't so neat to admit defeat. They can see no reasons, 'cause there are no reasons. What reasons do you need?" Oh my God. Wow. And all the playing's- I just feel there should- stopped in the playground now. She wants to play with toys a while. And school's out early, soon we be learning, and the lesson today is how to die." Good God. Jesus fucking Christ.

Speaker 7:25

that's actually madness.

Speaker 2 7:26

I am not surprised-

Speaker 7:28

And like

Speaker 2 7:28

I- that was banned

Speaker 7:30

only ever knew that it was like the merry little, "Tell me why, tell..." I don't know anything else about the song. I don't know what the verses sound like in my head- Yeah But it was just like a huge deal.

Speaker 2 7:41

Which is fair.

Speaker 7:43

So crazy. Anyway, so this story starts in Cleveland, in San Carlos, San Diego County, California. Lots of names- Yeah of places, but,

Speaker 2 7:54

Won't remember any of them

Speaker 7:55

San Diego, California.

Speaker 2 7:57

California.

Speaker 7:58

On January the 29th, 1979, it was 8:00 AM and parents were dropping their kids off at Grover Cleveland Elementary School. I think ele- elementary is around 5 to 11 years old. So primary. So like little babs. Little

Speaker 2 8:15

babs.

Speaker 8:16

Principal Burton Wragg opened the school gates at 8:15 and then went back inside to have some coffee in the staff room whilst all the kids arrived, like the parents dropped them off Okay, this... We're just gonna go right into this. This is really intense, really fast. Jeez, okay. It always is. It always is with us. It is.

Speaker 2 8:36

We are talking about murder.

Speaker 8:37

Yeah. So- That's

Speaker 2 8:38

probably fair

Speaker 8:39

nine-year-old Monica Selvig was walking up to the school gates when she fell to the ground in pain. Eight-year-old Mary Clark, straight after had something shoot through her stomach. But not to cause a fuss, she got up and walked to the school building. Jesus. Yeah. Immediately after this, Greg Verner, who was also eight years old, went down too. This, really quickly, was when people realized that it was bullets.

Speaker 2 9:10

Yeah.

Speaker 9:11

He was shot in the pelvis, and he just dropped to the ground. 10-year-old Crystal Hardy was next. She was shot through the wrist. Ouch. Also, I... Apparently, the... She went inside, and the teachers gave her a paper towel.

Speaker 2 9:31

be fair, when I-

Speaker 9:32

One of those blue- When I- No, green school paper towel. You know the one? Yeah. Oh my God. You could just get, like- Those... a wet paper

Speaker 2 9:38

towel- And they're like the- couldn't fix anything worst fucking thinnest, weirdest material.

Speaker 9:41

Yeah.

Speaker 2 9:41

When I was at school, I accidentally cut off the tip of my finger with those scissors, those blunt-ass scissors.

Speaker 9:49

my God. How?

Speaker 2 9:49

Because I was cutting cable ties. For some reason, we were doing cable tie art. And, yeah, it's Birmingham. They don't give you a lot. And- yeah. We were doing cable tie art, and I cut... I went to cut through a cable tie, and I managed to cut through the tip of my finger-

Speaker 10:04

That is crazy

Speaker 2 10:05

while I was doing it, 'cause I wasn't paying enough attention. And then I was like, "Oh." I looked at my friend Sian, and I was like- I've done something bad. And she was like, "What have you done?" I was like, "I've cut off my finger." And it was, like, on the floor and we could see it. And then I had to go and tell my teacher.

Speaker 10:20

you stupid.

Speaker 2 10:21

And then my teacher literally was just like, "Oh, just put some paper towels on it." Every time she just covered my hand in paper towels. And then obviously I bled through the first set and I said, "Can I have some more paper towels, please?" And then she gave me more, and I bled through them again.

Speaker 10:34

Oh my God. Then

Speaker 2 10:34

she gave me a tea towel, and I bled through the tea towel.

Speaker 10:37

Fuck.

Speaker 2 10:37

And then she was like, "I think you might need to go to hospital." And I was like, "You think?"

Speaker 10:42

Honestly. How many paper towels were we gonna go through before you decided?

Speaker 2 10:45

before I bled out.

Speaker 10:46

Literally the whole pack.

Speaker 2 10:47

Yeah.

Speaker 10:48

Absolutely crazy. I just feel like at any given moment in school they'd just be like, "Paper towel?"

Speaker 2 10:53

Paper towel? Do you want a paper towel?" I

Speaker 10:54

feel like you could break your spine- Yeah and they'd be like, "Do you think a wet paper towel- "Paper towel" would fix this?" Potentially. They're just paper mashing you up. Absolutely wild. Yes yeah, she's shot through the wrist. They give her a paper towel. She's "Okay."

Speaker 2 11:08

Terrifying.

Speaker 11:09

There's a hole in my wrist, but it's fine." Yeah. Audrey Stites, seven years old, was shot in the right shoulder and then shot again through both of her thighs. Oh. Yeah. All of what I just told you had already happened within two minutes.

Speaker 2 11:25

Jesus fucking Christ.

Speaker 11:27

Yeah. Bullets be flying. So Principal Burton Wragg, whilst having his morning coffee, was looking out the window and was hearing the commotion, and then he saw what was happening. And he didn't, couldn't tell, like, where it was coming from or anything, but he literally ran down the stairs and straight into the scene of the crime to help. He immediately was shot twice in the chest as soon as he got out into the, just before the school gates.

Speaker 2 11:48

Yeah, like a courtyard.

Speaker 11:50

Yeah. So it's like you haven't actually gone through the school gates to be at school, but it's like the drop-off. There's a car park drop-off,

Speaker 2 11:55

Okay

Speaker 11:56

and then the entrance,

Speaker 2 11:57

yeah.

Speaker 11:57

So this is where everyone's dropping-

Speaker 2 11:58

actually think I can picture it.

Speaker 12:00

Yeah, I can picture it.

Speaker 2 12:00

think I can picture it.

Speaker 12:02

Yeah. I feel like you can-

Speaker 2 12:04

Yeah

Speaker 12:04

because it is once

Speaker 2 12:05

you've read the case. I think I also have seen pictures- Of what it all looks like and where her house was.

Speaker 12:11

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Terrifying. Yes, so- Yeah, he was immediately shot twice in the chest and fell to his death, and he actually died on the way to the hospital-

Speaker 2 12:22

Is he the only one that's died so far?

Speaker 12:24

Yes.

Speaker 2 12:24

Yeah, cool.

Speaker 12:25

Michael Souka- Yeah who was one of the teachers. I think they used to call him Mr. Mike

Speaker 2 12:30

for kids. Aw, that's a cute name.

Speaker 12:32

Ran out to also help and was shot down as well, and he died straight away on the scene.

Speaker 2 12:37

Oh.

Speaker 12:37

All the shots that had been fired were from a .22 caliber rifle. Immediately after, Nine-year-old Christie Beaulieu was shot two times. The third bullet was actually found in her hood later on. ended up chilling in there. Julie Robles, 10 years old, was then shot in her side. Julie managed to get up and run inside. And apparently the blow from her getting hit was so h- hard that it knocked her glasses off-

Speaker 2 13:07

Aw

Speaker 13:07

her face, and she had to collect them before she ran inside. And Julie was actually shot at about 8:20. So everything that's just happened in five minutes.

Speaker 2 13:16

Jesus fucking Christ.

Speaker 13:19

I know. Absolutely-

Speaker 2 13:20

How... I don't-

Speaker 13:21

Terrifying

Speaker 2 13:22

I literally don't get, like- I understand that there's like a level of separation between a stabbing. Like I couldn't do a stabbing.

Speaker 13:31

Yeah.

Speaker 2 13:32

I couldn't do a stabbing 'cause it's incredibly personal.

Speaker 13:34

And you need like the extra like the strength to for your body. I don't mean strength like inside- yeah but like physical strength- And to also like- I'd literally be like you know even if you're like biting something, like a lid of something- Yeah you don't let yourself like bite as strong as you can bite. Like- it's like they say like

Speaker 2 13:53

you could bite through your finger.

Speaker 13:55

Yeah.

Speaker 2 13:55

But you could. It'd be like biting through a carrot, but you wouldn't.

Speaker 13:59

Yeah. You wouldn't do that.

Speaker 2 13:59

You wouldn't do it.

Speaker 14:00

Because y- your body won't let you.

Speaker 2 14:01

your body won't let you

Speaker 14:02

I can't imagine letting myself

Speaker 2 14:04

hurt someone like that. And I understand like maybe I don't know, if you've played video games and stuff, like you can maybe get I just don't under- I don't understand it. I don't understand how you could just be like pop. Yeah. N- and have no qualms about it.

Speaker 14:19

But maybe that's the thing as well, isn't it? Is like she is far away.

Speaker 2 14:21

that's why I'm not a serial killer.

Speaker 14:23

Yeah.

Speaker 2 14:23

Also.

Speaker 14:24

I think it's absolutely fucked. Like neither of us could do any of those things. But stabbing someone is like you have to physically put Whereas you're shooting someone from far away, maybe she can like- Yeah compartmentalize and be like that's just-

Speaker 2 14:38

Yeah. just because I've done something over here and something's happened over there, like you can have a disconnect.

Speaker 14:43

Yeah. And you're not like h- seeing and hear- yes you are. Like I could never-

Speaker 2 14:47

Sounds like she's got it out more for those men though

Speaker 14:52

yeah

Speaker 2 14:52

Than the kids, 'cause those are pretty good fucking shots to kill- those two men

Speaker 14:55

I kind of wonder if just they're bigger. Like-

Speaker 2 14:58

Yeah, easier targets maybe

Speaker 15:00

yeah. I think she's slightly disappointed she only kills two of them.

Speaker 2 15:03

Oh. She seems nice.

Speaker 15:06

Yeah, she's a handful. Yeah, so apparently the shots couldn't be heard from the car park. So some parents of these kids had just dropped them and drove away without knowing what was happening right next to them. Jeez. Charles Miller, nine years old, was shot through the shoulder, just missing his heart. Apparently he found a teacher inside and just said, "I think I've been shot," at nine, 'cause America. Yeah.

Speaker 2 15:34

That is fucked, isn't it?

Speaker 15:35

Yeah. So whilst this is going on, the people inside the school could work out which direction that the shots were coming from, and obviously they were ringing the police. So they actually called the police at 8:25 AM, so 10 minutes after.

Speaker 2 15:49

This is all happening so quickly.

Speaker 15:50

Isn't it?

Speaker 2 15:51

So quickly

Speaker 15:51

within five minutes the principal's down, out there dead.

Speaker 2 15:54

just shot- He dies on the way but knocked down the other teacher is dead.

Speaker 15:57

Yeah, knocked down.

Speaker 2 15:57

And there's how many kids is that? Like seven?

Speaker 16:00

Yeah, something crazy. I think 10 maybe, but maybe- let me see how many there are all together. I did write it somewhere.

Speaker 2 16:07

But in the space of 10 minutes, to have two adults One dead, one critically injured- and then 10 kids shot, that's... I guess in the world of pulling sh- pulling a trigger it's not-

Speaker 16:20

Yeah that's actually loads of time, isn't it? Yeah. But still. I think it is 10, 10 people at this point. Just unbelievable. We'll go into it.

Speaker 2 16:29

We'll go into this.

Speaker 16:30

We'll

Speaker 2 16:30

get into it. Don't you

Speaker 16:32

fucking worry. We will. Don't you worry because we're gonna get right

Speaker 2 16:34

into it. We're gonna get into it,

Speaker 16:35

Yeah. And we're like, "No, that's enough."

Speaker 2 16:37

Yeah. Actually we're done.

Speaker 16:39

And just aside from the principal and the teacher we spoke about, all of these kids, they did survive

Speaker 2 16:43

fully. Wonderful.

Speaker 16:44

Yeah.

Speaker 2 16:45

That's good news.

Speaker 16:46

Yeah. Even though there was a lot of surgery that had to be done-

Speaker 2 16:48

Yeah and obviously- And that's extremely traumatic traumatic.

Speaker 16:51

Yeah, they all actually did survive.

Speaker 2 16:54

Yeah.

Speaker 16:56

So the teachers and the everyone inside was trying to guide children into safety, but apparently the kids were still arriving left and center, and it's really hard to monitor.

Speaker 2 17:07

Yeah.

Speaker 17:08

So through them ringing and watching out of the window, they could see where the shots were firing from.

Speaker 2 17:14

Yeah, 'cause Charlotte does that little, like-

Speaker 17:16

Glint little glint, yeah.

Speaker 2 17:17

That little glint.

Speaker 17:18

And 'cause she's literally shot something like 20 bullets right now, there, it's all within 10 minutes. It's that is a lot of shots, so actually if you just do just lock in-

Speaker 2 17:28

Yeah It's not too hard to figure out where.

Speaker 17:30

So the shots were coming from a window in a house across the street, which was 6356 Lake Alton Avenue. The police arrive at the school ASAP.

Speaker 2 17:40

Do you know how fucking brazen it is to pick up a gun at your house?

Speaker 17:45

Oh,

Speaker 2 17:45

yeah. And start shooting out of the window.

Speaker 17:47

Yeah. Just there's not even like an attempt

Speaker 2 17:51

Fucking zero survival instincts.

Speaker 17:53

Yeah

Speaker 2 17:53

You're not even trying. No

Speaker 17:53

attempt to make it seem like someone else. Yeah No attempt. Just woke up and been like, "Today." Yeah I just crack. Oh, crazy. So the police arrive. Officer Rob Officer Robert Rob.

Speaker 2 18:07

Your parents are having a giggle.

Speaker 18:09

He was one of the first people on the scene. He went into the chaos with a bulletproof vest on and a first aid kit to go and help.

Speaker 2 18:18

Oh, Rob.

Speaker 18:19

There's no paramedics on the scene or anything 'cause this is literally the '70s, and they're just probably not really used to mad casualties like that for a- Yeah shooting. He was shot in the neck- whilst this was happening. It nicked an artery.

Speaker 2 18:31

Oh, my God.

Speaker 18:32

And he does survive this, but he had lifelong injuries.

Speaker 2 18:35

Yeah, I'm not surprised. I don't think you can have an artery nicked and it just be like- No big deal.

Speaker 18:40

An officer, I don't know what his name is, but He went and g- got a bin lorry that he found and drove it in front of her house-

Speaker 2 18:48

So she couldn't s- to block

Speaker 18:49

her

Speaker 2 18:49

Oh, that's clever.

Speaker 18:50

So smart.

Speaker 2 18:51

That's so clever.

Speaker 18:52

Obviously they didn't know it was a he right now.

Speaker 2 18:53

Yeah little spoilers.

Speaker 18:54

Yeah.

Speaker 2 18:55

Yeah. they don't know it's a she.

Speaker 18:56

I think he just saw it and was like, "Oh, my God." Yeah. "Block this person's

Speaker 2 18:59

view right now." Yeah, block their view.

Speaker 19:01

So after that, they just blocked her. And a SWAT team and a homicide team arrived. The police locked down what exact house it was by then. They were trying to find out information about who lived there, and they found out that a man named Wally Spencer was the person who lived in that house. They gave the house a ring. No answer. They were, checking with neighbors if anyone had seen him Nothing.

Speaker 2 19:23

Yeah.

Speaker 19:25

They managed to get a hold of the university that Wally worked at, and they confirmed that he was at work at that exact time.

Speaker 2 19:32

Yeah, and you'd be like, "What the fuck?"

Speaker 19:34

Yeah. So they'd be like, "Oh, my God."

Speaker 2 19:35

Somebody's done shooting from your house.

Speaker 19:38

Literally. so then straight after, they called his ex-wife, who's called Dot Hobel, I think it's pronounced. Hobel?

Speaker 2 19:46

Hobel.

Speaker 19:47

Yeah, they also called his ex-wife. And she also was at work. So they were really confused about how someone would have access to Wally's house, and they had to keep trying to make contact. The home phone rang again for answers, and they kept ringing and kept ringing. And they were asking Wally wh- d- does... "Have you given other people keys?" Blah, blah, blah. Anyway- A phone call comes into this house and someone finally picks up the phone And this person is Wally and Dot's 16-year-old daughter, Brenda Spencer. However, the call hadn't actually come from the San Diego Police, but it had come from a reporter called Frank Saldana from the San Diego Evening Tribune. And he had somehow caught wind of the fact- Of what was going on that there was a shooting going on. And he had just literally been tapping into a police scanner, and he'd found out that it was in the flats across the street, and he just started ringing all of those flats.

Speaker 2 20:50

But how lucky that she picked up his phone call.

Speaker 20:54

And literally...

Speaker 2 20:54

not lucky. I don't know why I would say lucky for him. Lucky for him because-

Speaker 20:57

Yeah he's trying to get to the hot goss, but he doesn't even know that he's actually called the killer either. He's just ringing anyone- Anyone from across the road so that he can get any kind of drivel of information so that he can be, like, the first person hot off the press to report it. And he actually is the first person that gets through to Brenda when she answers the phone for the first time. She answers him.

Speaker 2 21:19

Okay.

Speaker 21:20

Which is so crazy. But then also what that's doing is it's, whilst they're on the phone, it's stopping the police being able to get in contact with her.

Speaker 2 21:27

Yes, but it is also stopping her shooting.

Speaker 21:31

Yeah, true. And this gal loves-

Speaker 2 21:33

I'm not saying he's done a good thing there 'cause I think he's done something-

Speaker 21:36

Just distracting

Speaker 2 21:37

her

Speaker 21:37

in any sense is, is- fucking

Speaker 2 21:38

terrible. But maybe i-

Speaker 21:39

even if it is just a distraction, at least she's distracted. Yeah. Yeah, so it was annoying for the police, but also it was kind of-

Speaker 2 21:47

Yeah

Speaker 21:48

causing a lol in whatever shenanigans she was up to prior to that.

Speaker 2 21:51

Yeah.

Speaker 21:52

Yeah. So he didn't even know he'd got through to the shooter. This was just after 9:00 AM. So it had gone quiet for half an hour maybe, and they were just trying to be like she can't shoot at the kids anymore. Make sure everyone's safe. Make sure all these people are, like, going off to hospital and whatever. We need to somehow stop her." They weren't even 100% sure it was her at this point. Yeah. have a kid, but she should be at school."

Speaker 2 22:15

Yeah.

Speaker 22:15

But they were like, "But her 16-year-old girl?"

Speaker 2 22:17

Yeah.

Speaker 22:18

Couldn't be her." Someone's broken. Yeah. Yeah. There's just no way. So when the reporter asks where she thought that the shots... Oh, sorry. One second. Brenda, on the phone, had said she had seen it all happen and that it was a 16-year-old girl who had done the shootings. And when the reporter asked where she thought the shots were coming from, Brenda said her own address. Frank Saldana asked Brenda, "Isn't that your address?" And Brenda replied, "Sure. Who do you think did it?" And then hung up. So he was like- My god what the fuck? Yeah. Absolutely imagine.

Speaker 2 22:56

My god.

Speaker 22:56

You're just trying to get involved and trying to get some tea, and then you're like, "What did you just

Speaker 2 23:01

say to me?" Wh- d- what the

Speaker 23:02

Yeah. What did you just actually say

Speaker 2 23:04

to me?

Speaker 23:04

Yeah. Because also I'd be like, "You're rage baiting me." There's just no way. Yeah. You've just answered the phone and been like, "Oh, there's a shooting, was it? I think it might have been me."

Speaker 2 23:11

I'd be like, "Girls aren't capable of that." Yeah.

Speaker 23:14

Literally.

Speaker 2 23:15

Not with their tiny little pea brains.

Speaker 23:16

Yeah. Not a 16-year-old girl- nonetheless named Brenda.

Speaker 2 23:19

N- not gonna happen.

Speaker 23:21

So Brenda had fired... I don't know why I put this in this random bit, but they'd actually... Oh, should I say this now? Yeah, okay. He was basically like, "Oh my God, no way." And he called her back and he asked her, he said, "Why did you..." "Why did you do that?" And she just said, "I just started shooting. That's it. I just did it for the fun of it." And then she said, "I don't like Mondays. Do you like Mondays? I did this because it's a way to cheer up the day. No one likes Mondays."

Speaker 2 23:58

Fucking pick me bitch.

Speaker 24:00

Yeah. Then Saldana informed Brenda that she had shot three or four people. In which she replied, "Is that all? I saw a lot of feathers fly." She also said that she wanted to shoot more, and then hung up again. But whenever he called back, she answered.

Speaker 2 24:17

he,

Speaker 24:17

is he telling the police this? No, I think Bree is just like-

Speaker 2 24:21

Oh my God

Speaker 24:22

I'll be writing my stories. I'll be getting my info." It's a bit complicated because it is like he says, she says.

Speaker 2 24:29

Yeah.

Speaker 24:30

But this is what he says that she says. And I wouldn't put it past her saying any of this stuff-

Speaker 2 24:36

Yeah

Speaker 24:36

because she does love the clout.

Speaker 3 24:39

Pfft,

Speaker 24:39

I don't know. If that was me... I wouldn't be a reporter that kind of goes in and-

Speaker 2 24:43

Yeah

Speaker 24:44

tries to get gossip for myself first. But also you've struck gold there, haven't you, if you're on the phone to the killer? And you're gonna be like, "I'm gonna get every shred of information I can before I tell anyone anything else."

Speaker 2 24:53

Yeah. But at this point also- People- do you not think it would be- Kids are

Speaker 24:56

dying,

Speaker 2 24:57

bro valuable information to be like, "Yeah, it's a 16-year-old girl. She's in there."

Speaker 25:02

Yeah.

Speaker 2 25:02

She's there alone,

Speaker 25:03

I know. And he had called her back. And I don't know if maybe he was just like... I don't know what happened. Maybe the police were like, "Oh, we can't get through to her right now," and then the reporter was just calling at the right times. I don't know. Or maybe they'd been on the phone for ages, and then the police had moved on- Stopped to something else.

Speaker 2 25:20

Yeah and then- Stopped trying

Speaker 25:21

where he's managed to get through a few times. Yeah, I don't know. So she had actually fired 36 rounds with a .22 caliber rifle that her dad had got her for Christmas the month before.

Speaker 2 25:34

Yeah. Don't buy your kids guns.

Speaker 25:36

Yeah. I just don't feel like that is- I

Speaker 2 25:38

think-

Speaker 25:38

there's nothing

Speaker 2 25:39

in there if I don't feel that I should have to tell you that, but-

Speaker 25:42

No

Speaker 2 25:43

here we are.

Speaker 25:44

Just don't Like just

Speaker 2 25:47

Don't Just don't Just don't 16, bro. Yeah.

Speaker 25:51

What? I don't understand.

Speaker 2 25:53

Reserve that for 21-year-olds.

Speaker 25:55

And it's really

Speaker 2 25:55

difficult- And also not even then, don't buy guns.

Speaker 25:57

Yeah. It's also really difficult because I think they're all terrible in this. I think the mom and the dad and her- Yeah are terrible. And I'm not saying that if you buy someone a gun it's your fault if they shoot up a school. She... Even though she is underage, she still has to take-

Speaker 2 26:13

Yeah,

Speaker 26:13

responsibility for it responsibility for this. But also- She has been paying for it her whole life

Speaker 2 26:15

put guns in the hands of children.

Speaker 26:17

Yeah. I just feel like you aren't aiding any situation until someone... I don't think people should have guns, but in a place where you can, I think at least just wait till their frontal lobe has developed or until they can make that decision themselves,

Speaker 2 26:28

know?

Speaker 26:28

I feel like you're doing a service by not promoting gun violence by-

Speaker 2 26:32

Yeah. And also, like, when you normalize something like a gun...

Speaker 26:36

Also, if you're gonna buy someone a gun that is 16 I just think don't. But if you are going to, keep that fucking gun far away- from them unless it's under your

Speaker 2 26:45

supervision why... don't normalize things like a gun- No because then they get... there's this dissociation. The fact that a gun can kill somebody. That it is a weapon.

Speaker 26:53

People have such a massive argument about people playing violent video games.

Speaker 2 26:57

Literally.

Speaker 26:58

And that's... You're not even holding a IRL gun.

Speaker 2 27:02

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 27:02

Absolutely. And even that can be detrimental to people that are developing and that think that violence is okay, but the fact that he's literally put a gun in her hands at 16.

Speaker 2 27:12

Just don't know, I don't know why you have to do that. I don't know why- what power

Speaker 27:15

that gives

Speaker 2 27:16

someone is- Yeah. Like-

Speaker 27:17

so horrible

Speaker 2 27:17

why did you think

Speaker 27:18

That

Speaker 2 27:18

was necessary?

Speaker 27:20

It's just so terrifying. So she said she wanted to shoot- And

Speaker 2 27:23

if you say for her own protection, that's wild. 'Cause what the fuck do you think a 16-year-old's doing?

Speaker 27:27

Yeah. So she said she wanted to shoot more, so she'd hung up again. But whenever he did call her back, she answered. She was more than happy to give any info for the fame and limelight. And I think he'd said, "Oh, I'm a reporter," so she was just straightaway like-

Speaker 2 27:42

Yeah

Speaker 27:42

I did it because I don't like Mondays." Happy to

Speaker 2 27:44

chat.

Speaker 27:45

And, "Oh, I saw loads of feathers flying. Are you taking all of this down?" Just very, like anyway, Frank passed all of this on to his boss, and then they got digging for more information from her.

Speaker 2 27:54

Brenda- Yeah. Don't talk to the police.

Speaker 27:57

It's like you've actually got the most information out of anyone.

Speaker 2 28:00

Yeah.

Speaker 28:00

And what you're choosing to do is get-

Speaker 2 28:02

Be helpful the

Speaker 28:02

best story.

Speaker 2 28:03

You've got a great story there already. You got to speak to the killer. Now help the police. Literally.

Speaker 28:08

Or at least be like, "Look, she's talking to me. She knows I'm the press, and she's loving the clout." Yeah. "I'll update you with anything." I'll keep talking to her. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe they were doing that. I couldn't see anything about it in the doc. So Brenda told them she had never shot a person before, but she had been in a lot of fights and would open heads with a cleaver. She did say she wasn't aiming for anyone in particular on this day

Speaker 2 28:30

of the shooting. Open whose heads with a cleaver? No one's.

Speaker 28:33

It's a lie. That can't,

Speaker 2 28:34

It can't be real, can it?

Speaker 28:36

She's never shot anyone before, but she has split someone's head open with a-

Speaker 2 28:38

Also, opening- Shut up, Brenda.

Speaker 28:40

Why is he opening heads with a cleaver as well?

Speaker 2 28:42

Do you know what? I firmly stand behind some kids should be bullied. And Brenda's one of them.

Speaker 28:53

Too funny. Yeah, so she did say that on this day of the shooting, she wasn't aiming for anyone in particular. She just liked red and blue jackets. However, none of this was recorded, so it's just what the press say that she said- Yeah and they published this. But no police so far had any of these quotes or information. They passed this information over to the police finally, and the police tell the journalists to fuck off. They're like, "Just go away now. You've got your story. Do whatever you want with it." Yeah.

Speaker 2 29:20

Just leave

Speaker 29:21

us alone." Just leave.

Speaker 2 29:21

Get out of the way.

Speaker 29:22

People literally are dying.

Speaker 2 29:24

Yeah.

Speaker 29:24

And we need to get her out. Also, even if you're like it's a safeguarding issue, that person's 16," I'd be like, "Oh my God." Do you know what I mean? Yeah. You just give it a rest. Yeah,

Speaker 2 29:33

but people didn't have consciences back then.

Speaker 29:37

So true.

Speaker 2 29:38

I don't know what it is, but people don't have consciences now,

Speaker 29:40

Yeah

Speaker 2 29:40

the things that people do. You're like do you think morally, if you believe in some god or something. Do you think that he's gonna be like let's look at your life, yeah? And get to the pearly gates. Will I let you in? Do you remember that one time there was a mass shooting?"

Speaker 29:56

And

Speaker 2 29:56

you decided to make

Speaker 29:57

it all about you.

Speaker 2 29:58

"And rather than turning in the girl and giving the police information-"

Speaker 30:01

You

Speaker 2 30:02

just thought- what you did is you chatted to her on the phone and got in the way."

Speaker 30:04

This, yeah, this is gonna do wonders for my career."

Speaker 2 30:06

Yeah. So that you could publish it in a fucking magazine.

Speaker 30:09

Yeah, good point.

Speaker 2 30:10

Straight to hell.

Speaker 30:12

I reckon I would go to hell.

Speaker 2 30:13

Yeah, but that's 'cause most of the fun people do.

Speaker 30:19

Yeah, I don't wanna go heaven. I'll just hang out with Wells

Speaker 2 30:21

It's not bloody real, is it? I ain't going

Speaker 30:23

No point debating it. Yeah, so this guy's going to hell, basically. He's gone off to hell.

Speaker 2 30:29

Yeah.

Speaker 30:29

We don't really hear about them anymore, but they did post that, and that is why it popped off so much because of that quote. And because, spree killings of a school capacity was not a thing- back then. And she's a 16-year-old girl, so the story was already major. But the fact that she just- I feel

Speaker 2 30:46

bad- was like, "Lol, just another Monday" about some of the things that I say on this pod sometimes, but not anything- Never do I've said about any of these people.

Speaker 30:53

Never feel bad. We're all unhinged in this. So they get a negotiator out after the police and ambulance have got all of the casualties and people out to safety-ish. This guy is- What do you mean ish? Some of them weren't safe, were they? They died. Oh,

Speaker 2 31:11

Oh, yeah. Sorry. But they've got everyone- I thought you just meant there were a couple lying on the floor- and they were like, "We'll get to them" "We will get to them."

Speaker 31:17

Let's get-

Speaker 2 31:18

Yeah seven

Speaker 31:18

out of 10 out.

Speaker 2 31:19

Yeah.

Speaker 31:19

And then let's call the negotiator, and then let's do the last three.

Speaker 2 31:21

this is an all or nothing job, guys.

Speaker 31:25

Yeah, no, they got them all out, but obviously some of them-

Speaker 2 31:27

Yeah

Speaker 31:27

died.

Speaker 2 31:27

Only

Speaker 31:28

two, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 31:28

I... Yeah. But the two that we talked about, no more than I-

Speaker 31:31

No kids. Okay. Just Mr. Mike and- Yeah the principal. Which is crazy that we're saying just, but it's because when it's- Yeah, just that

Speaker 2 31:40

amount of people- Yeah shot- Yeah

Speaker 31:41

in 10 minutes.

Speaker 2 31:43

That's

Speaker 31:44

And some of them are seven or eight years old, It's kinda crazy 'cause you would just think a kid's body couldn't take that.

Speaker 2 31:49

Yeah surely. Shot

Speaker 31:50

through both thighs. Oh my God.

Speaker 2 31:52

Oh.

Speaker 31:53

And so this is the thing as well. It's like they do all survive, but some of them have lifelong damage- mentally and physically.

Speaker 2 32:00

I cannot imagine being nine years old and being like, "I've been shot."

Speaker 32:04

Literally. Did you get stabbed at nine years old?

Speaker 2 32:10

No, I just feel like- God, I wish. That is such a cool story.

Speaker 32:13

I just feel like I wouldn't even be surprised-

Speaker 2 32:14

Yeah if you

Speaker 32:15

just came out- If I'd been stabbed with some story like that.

Speaker 2 32:17

No, I never was stabbed. I did have a teacher who was stabbed.

Speaker 32:19

God, that's horrible.

Speaker 2 32:20

He used to tell us about it and show us the scars.

Speaker 32:22

Okay. That's really random.

Speaker 2 32:24

Yeah. Where was the scar? through his leg Good Lord. Yeah Is he

Speaker 32:33

like-

Speaker 2 32:33

Through his calf

Speaker 32:34

through spreading awareness of knife crime, or was he just being like, "Look how cool I am."

Speaker 2 32:38

He's, "I got stabbed once."

Speaker 32:39

I was in a gang

Speaker 2 32:40

once." Yeah, I can't really remember the reason he told us. I think it was his leg

Speaker 32:47

Mad now I can't remember. Wow.

Speaker 2 32:50

Yeah. Anyway, I just remember he got stabbed. I remember what he looks like, can't remember his name. I just feel like some teachers are just like there to be best mates- I also don't think he was a qualified teacher with their students, which...

Speaker 33:00

Oh, is he like-

Speaker 2 33:01

I think it was like a TA or something

Speaker 33:03

a TA. Do you know that yeah, course you do.

Speaker 2 33:04

Yeah.

Speaker 33:04

It's just so random to me.

Speaker 2 33:06

Yeah,

Speaker 33:06

it is weird. Every single time I see him, I'm just like-

Speaker 2 33:08

Wow

Speaker 33:09

it's so weird.

Speaker 2 33:09

He let you in his school. Literally.

Speaker 33:12

Yeah, so they got the negotiator down. And he's called Chet Thurston. And he sets up in a neighboring- He thirsts for a good negotiation. For a good chit-chat. For a chit-chat. Oh, just here for a little chit-chat. I really hope he

Speaker 2 33:33

leads with that. Yeah, that's good. That's good.

Speaker 33:34

trust him-

Speaker 2 33:35

Yeah

Speaker 33:35

so much

Speaker 2 33:36

if he made that joke. I'd immediately be like, "Chet, I would die for you."

Speaker 33:38

Yeah. I'd be like, "You know what, Chet? You've made the best of

Speaker 2 33:40

a bad situation." Yeah. "You've really done a good job. What do you need?"

Speaker 33:44

Yeah, so he sets up in a neighboring house to try and make contact with Brenda. Around midday, Thurston managed to get through to Brenda, and she finally answered the phone to the police. She told Chet that the scope on her rifle was on the wonk, so she could not shoot straight, and also said she wasn't going to stop as she was having too much fun. She also said that she was drinking a lot and doing drugs for days and her dad was supporting this. But Chet still managed to persuade her to leave the house, and she asked if she s- So just before he got her to agree to leave the house-

Speaker 2 34:23

Wow, he's obviously a great negotiator.

Speaker 34:25

Yeah. She is... I think she's just doing it for attention, isn't she really? So the fact that- No he's probably- You think? He's probably channeled down on that fact and been like, "I can probably help aid her," and the fact that, if she comes out with all the SWAT team and their guns pointed at her- Yeah and stuff, they won't hurt her, but it'll be like a super dramatic moment for her or whatever.

Speaker 2 34:46

Yeah.

Speaker 34:47

But just before she left, she said if she shot the SWAT team, would they shoot her back? Obviously. And Chet was like, "Yeah, babes, they would." So she came out with her rifle and pellet gun in a gray jumper. She laid everything on the floor, then she walked back inside, got her ammunition, and then carried that to the pile as well. As soon as she put it down, she was arrested by the police. This was 3:00 PM.

Speaker 2 35:12

Wow.

Speaker 35:14

But I think she did stop shooting at 8:30 or whatever. She was Just like in the house it takes a

Speaker 2 35:17

lot

Speaker 35:18

to get... Yeah. Yeah. And obviously she had loads, about 17 phone calls, and she was just saying she was gonna shoot some more, but I don't actually think she tried to shoot anyone-

Speaker 2 35:25

Yeah,

Speaker 35:26

since the 9:00 AM-

Speaker 2 35:27

I think they'd probably done- quite a good job of clearing the area-

Speaker 35:30

Yeah, exactly so there's

Speaker 2 35:31

probably no one left to shoot.

Speaker 35:32

Yeah. so she was arrested. This was 3:00 PM. On her way past to getting into the van, she saw her dad, and she told him to go and get screwed when she went past him. You fucking shone in there, Brenda. Literally. And she goes into custody. There's a little bit of insight here. Brenda actually never, ever gets a trial. But You'll find out. But,

Speaker 2 35:56

Do you mean 'cause she admits guilt?

Speaker 35:57

Yeah.

Speaker 2 35:58

Oh, yeah,

Speaker 35:58

But-

Speaker 2 35:58

That makes sense

Speaker 35:59

she yeah, she accepts like a plea deal or whatever, but it's really hard to fully understand the why, because there was never like-

Speaker 2 36:06

Why she did it?

Speaker 36:08

Yeah. Or

Speaker 2 36:08

why she accepted the deal?

Speaker 36:10

No, why she... Yeah, so because she didn't get a trial, you can't really get her side of the story. You can't get into her head a little bit. You can't have like her psychiatrists come out or whatever. Obviously they wouldn't do that 'cause like confidentiality.

Speaker 2 36:20

Yeah. She might have a shit life.

Speaker 36:21

Yeah.

Speaker 2 36:22

okay.

Speaker 36:22

We are gonna get to that. Like we do find out all of this stuff, but you never hear from her exactly what her reasoning's behind that fateful day- was, But that's just if she's had a trial, we might have had some witnesses and some people come forward with things. But it's all like she says this and he says that and- Yeah yeah. We'll just get into it. so now they have the what and the who, so obviously the why they're trying to just work that out. Dot is already on camera and already giving interviews telling everyone that Brenda was such a good girl, and she'd never done anything like this in her life, and she never would, and something's gone wrong. She actually says in an interview already on camera that all the fault lay at Wally's door for influencing her in the wrong way, and she even goes to say that he should be the one in prison for buying the gun.

Speaker 2 37:07

But, like- It's nice to know that their divorce was amicable.

Speaker 37:12

And also even if you have those things to say, again, tell someone, tell the police instead of telling reporters.

Speaker 2 37:17

Yeah. Tell your fucking therapist, like- Yeah don't put it out on fucking 5:00 news.

Speaker 37:21

Also, she was absolutely devo and she was just being like-

Speaker 2 37:25

Absolutely devo. Fucking diabolical- Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 37:31

Like-

Speaker 2 37:31

I let it go when you said IRL earlier. And you've just said absolutely

Speaker 37:37

devo. But if she was, like, distraught vibes.

Speaker 2 37:40

Yeah.

Speaker 37:41

But I just don't think she cares. I think she just really wants to blame Wally for this and she just doesn't want herself to look

Speaker 2 37:46

bad. She just fucking hates Wally.

Speaker 37:47

Yeah. And she... I think she just doesn't want herself to look bad,

Speaker 2 37:50

not saying Wally's not a piece of shit, because maybe he is.

Speaker 37:54

Yeah. I don't know.

Speaker 2 37:55

But yeah, it does feel like-

Speaker 37:56

I just feel like-

Speaker 2 37:57

you didn't even take a beat before you started being like, "Put that man in jail"

Speaker 38:00

I know, and I can understand if maybe she was in a police interview and she was like, "Why did that man buy her a gun?"

Speaker 2 38:04

my kid." Yeah,

Speaker 38:05

yeah. But to be like, "I'm Dot..." What was her last name again?

Speaker 2 38:10

Dot- It's

Speaker 38:11

a funny

Speaker 2 38:11

name

Speaker 38:12

Com. Dot Meepels. What was it? Dot... I've got it. Oh, you got it. Dot Tobels. Dot Tobel. Yeah. So she just goes in hard at Wally, and I just think "Just get off camera, babes. Just go and sort out what's going on with your kid, and give some statements, and just try and move on." And try and- Yeah at least be supportive for your family, even though obviously she's done something terrible. But she's still a kid, and she needs you. Just stop making it all about you. Anyway that's my opinion on her. So and also, Dot is so sus. When the police told her that her kid was shooting up a school, they said, "Can you come down to be supportive? Because we might need you in any negotiation tactics or whatever." And she said, "Oh, so sorry, I'm at work. I can't really leave right now."

Speaker 2 39:02

I think they might give you a pass- doll, if you tell them that your daughter is fucking shooting people.

Speaker 39:09

the only time that you could probably get away with saying that is if you were a paramedic for the time. I can't actually come- but I'll meet you there.

Speaker 2 39:19

I will be there.

Speaker 39:20

I'm gonna be

Speaker 2 39:20

there. I'll be working.

Speaker 39:22

I'm actually a negotiator.

Speaker 2 39:23

fair, rate it. The work ethic on fleek.

Speaker 39:27

Yeah.

Speaker 2 39:27

No, sorry, I can't- She's like- I can't go

Speaker 39:29

I'm actually a teacher and I'm inside school right now. there's just no valid excuse

Speaker 2 39:34

I hope she does something so menial as well. I hope she works at, like-

Speaker 39:38

Yeah

Speaker 2 39:38

I hope she works at, like-

Speaker 39:41

the

Speaker 2 39:41

corner shop. I hope she works at the corner shop for three hours a day.

Speaker 39:44

Yeah,

Speaker 2 39:44

Yeah. And she's "I cannot."

Speaker 39:46

Yeah.

Speaker 2 39:46

She's like- "I'm flat out"

Speaker 39:47

I just can't. I can't do it."

Speaker 2 39:49

They couldn't cope without me.

Speaker 39:50

She's just pottery painting- Yeah she's "No, don't

Speaker 2 39:53

crumble."

Speaker 39:53

She hasn't even got

Speaker 2 39:53

a job.

Speaker 39:54

Yeah. She just was so blase. She was like, "Oh, no, sorry, I can't." And she also said on the phone, "Oh, I barely see her anymore anyway."

Speaker 2 40:01

Wow. Mother of the year.

Speaker 40:03

Just careful,

Speaker 2 40:04

I don't even know her.

Speaker 40:05

I'm just bloody sacking you.

Speaker 2 40:08

I don't even know

Speaker 40:09

her. Yeah, no, but literally she's "Don't involve me, bitch. I'm at work. I barely know her."

Speaker 2 40:13

God. I don't even know her. I'm only her mom.

Speaker 40:15

And she really- Big deal pisses me off as well, because later, the, all this stuff comes out oh, just... I'll tell you later.

Speaker 2 40:21

What, she's a bad mom?

Speaker 40:23

She is the worst, but something comes out and then she's "Oh, yeah, I always knew that she shouldn't have been, like, living there"

Speaker 2 40:30

It's you that left her there

Speaker 40:31

dad had full custody of her. Like, how little must she have cared in trying to get custody for a kid- This is back in the '80s when dad, gets full custody of a kid over the mom?

Speaker 2 40:41

Yeah, that's-

Speaker 40:42

She must have given such little shit- about it, and then she has the cheek to come out and be like, "Oh, yeah."

Speaker 2 40:47

Knew she shouldn't have been living there. Someone should've done something about that.

Speaker 40:49

Yeah. But she, you were the only

Speaker 2 40:50

person that seemed to- If only her other guardian could've

Speaker 40:52

God, she's the worst.

Speaker 2 40:55

Dot.

Speaker 40:56

Yeah, so she was just so blase about the whole thing. And then upon further investigation, the police also quickly discovered that Brenda wasn't actually the goody two-shoes that her mom had made her out to be.

Speaker 2 41:05

No.

Speaker 41:06

Yeah. And she'd recently been expelled for truancy, which is obviously not really that

Speaker 2 41:10

deep-

Speaker 41:11

Yeah but,

Speaker 2 41:11

It's like in child's play

Speaker 41:12

Yeah, literally. And that didn't... I was almost expelled for truancy- Yeah and I didn't shoot anyone.

Speaker 2 41:20

Like- I was quite expelled for calling my teacher a pedo.

Speaker 41:23

So iconic.

Speaker 2 41:24

Stealing some aliens from a-

Speaker 41:25

I bet he was a pedo

Speaker 2 41:26

carriage as well.

Speaker 41:32

Full-on theft.

Speaker 2 41:33

Yeah. That was primary school as well.

Speaker 41:39

So funny. You're so posh now, bro.

Speaker 2 41:41

Yeah, I know. So fucking middle class, it's crazy.

Speaker 41:44

Yeah, she was attending an SEN school at the time.

Speaker 2 41:47

though because she'd knocked him. Obviously she wasn't attending that day.

Speaker 41:52

She'd broken into Cleveland Elementary School a year prior and vandalized the building and she'd smashed windows, set off fire extinguishers, and already had been arrested for this. She was also severely depressed and suicidal also. She was going out shooting in her spare

Speaker 2 42:10

time I am not... This is a terrible thing to say, but if you feel that way, take it out on yourself rather than someone else.

Speaker 42:17

Well,

Speaker 2 42:17

there's some

Speaker 42:18

question of people saying that the reason why she asked that about the SWAT team is that she was gonna shoot up the school and then get the police to shoot her.

Speaker 2 42:27

Yeah. Still- Why didn't she?

Speaker 42:29

don't get involved with the school,

Speaker 2 42:31

yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 42:32

maybe she just is 16 and was like, "No, actually, that's a big d-" yeah can't go through with it. I don't know. 'Cause it still took them till 3:00 to get her out of the house. So maybe it was a lot of that's what she was debating, but she was asking questions about "Would they shoot me if I tried to shoot with them?" and stuff. But maybe she just in the moment was like, "I can't do that."

Speaker 2 42:49

Don't make it everyone else's problem- I know that you're suicidal.

Speaker 42:52

And, if you're going through mad depression there is millions of other things

Speaker 2 42:56

that you can do. Yeah. Go and speak to a therapist. Try and talk to your family. It sounds like your family are terrible, so-

Speaker 42:59

Yeah

Speaker 2 43:00

try someone at your school.

Speaker 43:01

Yeah. I do think that she has a lot of personality disorder, and there's a lot of things going on with her. And she is a compulsive liar, and I think she has had a hard life. And I do think she is depressed. What was my point?

Speaker 2 43:13

No excuse, though.

Speaker 43:14

Oh, that, but this is premeditated because- you were breaking into the school a year prior.

Speaker 2 43:18

Like- You've got an obsession with that school it feels

Speaker 43:20

yeah, you're watching those kids go in every single day. You've purposely not gone into school that morning. You've sat in all day. It's not an insanity plead where you've just had a moment where you've just been like, "Open fire," it feels like you have already targeted this school before in a fit of rage.

Speaker 2 43:35

Yeah.

Speaker 43:36

It just feels angry and personal,

Speaker 2 43:38

no, I think it feels quite compassionate and-

Speaker 43:41

The most compassionate thing I've ever heard. But also not the best concoction because she was going out shooting in all of her spare time, and I don't think she had very many mates.

Speaker 2 43:49

Yeah. I just think if I looked at my kid and I was like, "Got no friends. Really likes guns." That's not a good combo, is it?

Speaker 44:00

No, it's just- I just really wonder how it was Wally being like, "What a good way for us to bond, 'cause I like guns and you like guns?" Or was it just being like, "Make sure my kid is tough?"

Speaker 2 44:16

What do you think? You know the most about him. What's your impression? That it was more make my kid tough, or I wanna bond?

Speaker 44:24

He sounds like an absolute gremlin of a man.

Speaker 2 44:27

Then probably make him tough.

Speaker 44:29

Yeah.

Speaker 2 44:30

I wouldn't be surprised. Or probably be like, my Second Amendment right." Yeah,

Speaker 44:32

Yeah.

Speaker 2 44:33

Cause- "It's my daughter's Second Amendment right." Damn, that's bitch.

Speaker 44:38

And I just Yeah, I just really wonder what's on with him. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. He is in the documentary if people wanna watch it. I can't remember what it's called or where I watched it.

Speaker 2 44:49

Is he dead

Speaker 44:49

Maybe now Could be I don't think so Show him in the dark. Oh my God. Yeah Wow Anyway, this guy. Is he dead? Oh, yeah. I didn't... Dunno

Speaker 2 45:20

Oh, fair

Speaker 45:20

Oh, he passed away in 2020. Oh, i'm just finding loads of different people with their like Who's dead? Who's alive? Oh, there's another Wally Spencer who's known for claiming to find an underground lake in Nevada and keeping its location secret without compensation.

Speaker 2 45:50

Right Why is they always in Tucson, Arizona? Tucson,

Speaker 46:00

Arizona. Why are they always there?

Speaker 2 46:03

Cause it's the best place on earth- apparently.

Speaker 46:07

I can't actually find anything- Ah, it doesn't matter

Speaker 2 46:09

I just don't care It does not matter. I like your dress

Speaker 46:11

about him anyway. It's... I just threw my

Speaker 2 46:13

phone away.

Speaker 46:13

Like- Yeah,

Speaker 2 46:13

cause I totally get that you do actually like that

Speaker 46:14

Yeah, so They arrested her, and through questioning her, they found out that she spent a lot of time out with her mate, Brant Fleming.

Speaker 2 46:23

Oh, so she did have a friend.

Speaker 46:25

Yeah. She said that they used to go out and do loads of drugs and shoplift together. Brant was questioned, and he said she used to talk about killing police whenever they would hang out and get stoned. But he also said that she constantly did things for attention and he thought that she was full of shit.

Speaker 2 46:39

Ah, yeah, we've all had one of them, haven't we?

Speaker 46:41

Yeah, so I feel like she's just, like-

Speaker 2 46:43

And you wouldn't believe it. They talk up a big game, but you're just like, "Oh, shut the fuck up."

Speaker 46:47

I know. And her being like, oh, whenever she's high, she's saying "I open people's heads with cleavers-

Speaker 2 46:52

Yeah

Speaker 46:53

and I'm gonna kill the police." You're probably thinking, like- Give it

Speaker 2 46:56

to me. "I can't be

Speaker 46:56

fucked."

Speaker 2 46:56

Go on then. Open my head up.

Speaker 46:57

Yeah. You ain't gonna do none of that, my friend.

Speaker 2 46:59

Show me the cleaver.

Speaker 47:01

Literally. And I don't think they're, like, getting out of their face on drugs. Yeah. I don't think he thinks that she's actually a drug addict. She's just

Speaker 2 47:07

maybe smoking a bit of weed.

Speaker 47:08

Yeah. They're probably just shoplifting a bit and just trying to be You know when you're young and you're like, "Crime is fun."

Speaker 2 47:13

Yeah.

Speaker 47:14

That's funny." And then as you get older, you're like, "Crime is stressful."

Speaker 2 47:17

to develop and you're like-

Speaker 47:18

Yeah

Speaker 2 47:18

Oh, my God."

Speaker 47:19

Crime is stressful. Oh, my God. And I'm an

Speaker 2 47:20

anxious girl. I don't wanna get caught. Yeah. I actually- I have heart palpitations when I was, like, in secondary school- This is how much of a changed egg I became. 'Cause I actually wasn't- That's interesting that badly behaved. I was, like, the best behaved out of me, my brother, and my sister. Which isn't saying much. But yeah, I accidentally- I was

Speaker 47:39

a gobshite, and now I think I'm the most behaved.

Speaker 2 47:41

I was just quite- behaved mouthy. Yeah. But I was all talk. I didn't do anything. I wasn't allowed in quite a few of my lessons.

Speaker 47:47

You're the youngest though, weren't you?

Speaker 2 47:48

Yeah. So

Speaker 47:48

you're probably like a little demon child. But in a cute way

Speaker 2 47:51

I'm like a little chihuahua.

Speaker 47:52

Yeah, like you're just running around

Speaker 2 47:53

like- All fuckin' bark, no bite. Yeah

Speaker 47:54

but also at the end of the day, the ones that are, going out and getting into trouble, it tend to be the older sibling.

Speaker 2 48:00

yeah. And the

Speaker 48:00

younger ones- My sister and my brother- just sat at home like-

Speaker 2 48:01

were like getting up to nonsense

Speaker 48:02

"What is happening?" Also, I feel like you're exposed to so much more younger.

Speaker 2 48:06

Oh, yeah.

Speaker 48:06

I feel like I had to walk and get grounded and go through all of that stuff so that Lauren could run

Speaker 2 48:11

But my sister used to drag me into fucking the worst situations. Yeah, I bet. And I'd be like 12, and I'd be like, "Why am I here?" I don't wanna she once pushed me over We broke into a construction site, me and her friends. And it was, like, behind this park that was, like, near our house. And then the police were coming, so we went to climb back over the f- the wall, this huge wall. And I No shit, I swear it was, like, eight foot. That's probably dramatic. Six foot. And I wasn't climbing fast enough, so she just fucking hauled me over it.

Speaker 48:41

Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 48:42

I literally, so she just pushed me over the top.

Speaker 48:43

That's so mad.

Speaker 2 48:45

Yeah.

Speaker 48:47

I feel like as well when you're, like, just such a little kid, you're just like- Okay, I guess I'll do this because the adults are in charge of me, and they're older than me and bigger than me, so they must be, like-

Speaker 2 48:55

Yeah protecting me. She'd be like, "Mom, can I have 20 quid 'cause I wanna take Tanisha ice skating?" And then I'd end up in a fucking random field.

Speaker 49:01

To get a bottle

Speaker 2 49:02

of vodka. And she'd got a bottle of vodki- voddy, and I'd be left with a weird mate who has their own name tattooed on the back of his neck.

Speaker 49:10

What in case the person following him needs to know? Yeah,

Speaker 2 49:11

yeah.

Speaker 49:13

Just in case if he got- Yeah

Speaker 2 49:14

has to be returned to his mom.

Speaker 49:16

He always carries two mirrors.

Speaker 2 49:19

That's not actually true. Th- the one she was getting rid of was the one who had his name tattooed on the back of him. Isn't it? Funny, man. Funny. Absolutely. His name was Chad if anyone's

Speaker 49:28

wondering. Not quite Chet.

Speaker 2 49:31

Not quite Chet.

Speaker 49:32

Chet Dustman.

Speaker 2 49:33

I'm pretty sure it was Chad.

Speaker 49:35

Chad.

Speaker 2 49:35

Yeah. Anyway,

Speaker 49:36

Honestly.

Speaker 2 49:36

Sidetracked there.

Speaker 49:37

Sometimes I think that Chad Michael Murray is called Chad.

Speaker 2 49:41

But his name's Chad Michael.

Speaker 49:43

Yeah, like Chad Michael Murray is such like a whimsy him name. Like blonde, hehehe. Chad Murray- Murray do you know what I mean? And then you're like, part of that name is Chad, and Chad just feels so, like- Yeah I'm Chad.

Speaker 2 49:56

But his name's Chad Michael.

Speaker 49:57

Yeah, Chad Michael. Chad Michael. Wild. Okay, So he just thought she was full of shit. They tested Brenda for drugs and apparently it came back clear.

Speaker 2 50:10

Yeah.

Speaker 50:11

This is important though.

Speaker 2 50:12

Okay.

Speaker 50:12

Not really. Just something to

Speaker 2 50:14

think about. Yeah, just something to remember.

Speaker 50:16

She also said that the only time she liked her life was the, when she went to stay with her aunt and uncle in Arkansas.

Speaker 2 50:24

Arkansas.

Speaker 50:26

Dee doo. I do love my

Speaker 2 50:28

mom and pop. We do that every time.

Speaker 50:31

Yeah. We'll never stop.

Speaker 2 50:32

Sorry.

Speaker 50:33

As she didn't have to look after herself and she could just be a kid.

Speaker 2 50:37

Oh, that's a bit sad, isn't it?

Speaker 50:39

Yes. Although through all this digging up her life stuff, the police also found out that when she was 14 years old she had a serious bike injury. And she smacked-

Speaker 2 50:53

Sorry, I'm just imagining the serious bike

Speaker 50:55

injury.

Speaker 2 50:56

She's... I'm imagining like a bicycle. I'm thinking of like the Hereditary

Speaker 50:58

scene. That's how serious. She's decapitated. And you're probably imagining-

Speaker 2 51:05

I'm just imagining her falling off her bike- Yeah and being like,

Speaker 51:07

Oh, it's a bad bike

Speaker 2 51:08

accident."

Speaker 51:09

Apparently she hit her head on a signpost and it knocked her out for a while. And apparently she didn't actually go to a hospital until a full day later, and she had quite a bad concussion.

Speaker 2 51:19

Oh, shit.

Speaker 51:20

Which is just something to ponder on as well.

Speaker 2 51:23

Yeah. They say head injury contributes, don't it?

Speaker 51:25

Yeah. Who else had that? Jeffrey Dahmer?

Speaker 2 51:27

A lot of them.

Speaker 51:28

Yeah.

Speaker 2 51:29

A lot of them had quite early

Speaker 51:31

on- changes if you-

Speaker 2 51:32

head injuries in their childhood.

Speaker 51:33

Yeah Very interesting. So the police get her in custody. That's what's happening right now. And there's talk of a trial and sentencing, et cetera. Because the news of this case was spreading fast, most of San Diego actually knew about this trial already, so the whole trial was moved, was going to be moved to Orange County so that she- Instead could have

Speaker 2 51:52

a fair trial.

Speaker 51:53

And actually, her first lawyer had to quit due to death threats.

Speaker 2 51:58

Ooh.

Speaker 51:58

Yeah, so it was quite a big deal. The person who ends up representing her is a man called Martin McGill.

Speaker 2 52:05

Oh, my God. Why is everyone named wild shit in this story?

Speaker 52:08

Literally. And I don't know, have you watched, Rob

Speaker 2 52:11

Rob and Martin McGill

Speaker 52:13

Have you watched Breaking Bad?

Speaker 2 52:14

No.

Speaker 52:15

So do you know who Saul Goodman is from Breaking Bad?

Speaker 2 52:18

Yeah, Better Call Saul.

Speaker 52:19

Yeah, so Better Call Saul, he changed his name in the show. I've watched it all. I love it. In the show, he changes his name to Saul Goodman because it's like, "It's all good, man." Saul Goodman. And that's him trying to be like, "It's all good, man," because he's like a shifty, shady lawyer.

Speaker 2 52:33

Yeah.

Speaker 52:34

But his original name, so in Better Call Saul, in the start, is Jimmy McGill.

Speaker 2 52:38

Yeah.

Speaker 52:38

And I feel like it's such a lawyer name. Do you know what I mean? McGill just sounds so shady lawyer-esque. Like a

Speaker 2 52:43

sleazy attorney.

Speaker 52:45

Yeah, exactly. And it's just a really lawyer-y name, I think, basically. But yeah, Martin McGill. Where am I? So she escaped the death penalty because she was- I'm also absolutely boiling.

Speaker 2 52:57

It is really warm. It's 25 degrees now. Not sure why. It's 'cause of that fire. Oh, shit. Look at this.

Speaker 53:09

all of a sudden. No, they've disappeared now.

Speaker 2 53:12

That's a cute bra. Thank you. So-

Speaker 53:17

She escaped the death penalty because she was 16, but she was still tried as an adult, not a juvenile. Martin McGill gave it his best shot. He said that she was too small and too young for prison, and would be at risk of sexual and physical assault,

Speaker 2 53:33

She should've thought of that before she started trying to murder

Speaker 53:35

people. Oh, definitely, bro. Those eight-year-olds were a lot fucking smaller than you, Brenda. I don't think it's

Speaker 2 53:39

a good enough argument to be like she's not big enough to be in prison."

Speaker 53:43

No, yeah. She probably wasn't big enough to hold a fucking .22 caliber f- Yeah, but she

Speaker 2 53:46

managed to do that, didn't she?

Speaker 53:48

he also tries to go down the insanity route. she does need a therapist, but in her day-to-day life she wasn't showing enough signs of serious mental health issues to go through convincing a jury of insanity. So before the trial had even started, Brenda was offered a plea deal in exchange for 25 years. Martin knew they weren't gonna get better than that, so Brenda agreed and took the deal, and pleaded guilty to two counts of first-degree murder for the teacher and the head teacher. 97,000 million for assault and attempted murder.

Speaker 2 54:17

Right.

Speaker 54:19

And because she did this she had no trial, which means no one ever really got to get to the bottom of her reasonings,

Speaker 2 54:24

Yeah.

Speaker 54:25

Because I think, at the start she's trying to be all cool and blase, but by her trial she might have had something to

Speaker 2 54:30

say about it. Yeah,

Speaker 54:31

and

Speaker 2 54:32

started opening up about what was going on with her.

Speaker 54:34

Yeah, and even just, like, when you get witnesses in everywhere that all knew her and, knew what she was like maybe before her head injury and after and stuff. But they just didn't get any of that stuff. So after she was arrested, McGill tried to help her out still and fought for less time or help her... or to help her secure a more comfortable sentence. He gets the doctor to do another test on her with the information about her head injury And a psychiatric diagnosis showed that she had abnormal brain waves along with a specific type of epilepsy that is uncommon and can make people act violent in some cases.

Speaker 2 55:10

Wow.

Speaker 55:10

And she did have that. That is, like- Yeah

Speaker 2 55:12

that- Diagnosed

Speaker 55:13

yeah. And because they are like, "Maybe the brain waves started happening after she had a serious head injury"-

Speaker 2 55:19

Yeah

Speaker 55:19

or maybe, some people don't- their epilepsy doesn't start coming through till they hit puberty or something like that. Yeah. So it could be... And she is quite small as a 16-year-old as well, so maybe it was just something that was k- yeah. Anyway this type is called psychomotor seizures. But this didn't do much because it's not a case of a split moment of violence. It was an all-morning taunting spree killing.

Speaker 2 55:43

Yeah.

Speaker 55:43

There's no remorse after, no reasonings behind it. So what?

Speaker 2 55:46

Are they saying the seizure could be she could commit a violent act while she's having the seizure? Yeah.

55:50

Like-

Speaker 2 55:51

Wow some people as well can have seizures- Like an absence where they're still like wandering around. But when they kind

Speaker 55:56

of have the seizure and come to, they can't remember a whole day

Speaker 2 55:58

Yeah. That's an absence seizure where you can still seem somewhat alert, but you aren't actually.

Speaker 56:05

Yeah. because loads of stuff about this. But I feel like this one is like it can make you act like not yourself.

Speaker 2 56:12

Okay.

Speaker 56:12

Like super out there and violent and stuff.

Speaker 2 56:14

That feels a bit more like disassociating.

Speaker 56:17

Yeah. And I think it's really hard because if she had... she's already gone in there a year before and smashed all the windows and broken and set off all the, and she's constantly saying she's gonna kill police officers and- Do you know, that kind of just as I was, leaving school, going to uni-

Speaker 2 56:32

Yeah

Speaker 56:32

I started feeling like really not-

Speaker 2 56:34

Yeah

Speaker 56:35

Like my days weren't mine and like my thoughts weren't mine. I was just doing things. And then I thought maybe it's just that time's going a bit quicker 'cause I'm getting older and I feel like I'm out of grasp of controlling life It just felt really out of it. But it's such a dangerous time just growing up.

Speaker 2 56:48

Yeah.

Speaker 56:49

Like-

Speaker 2 56:49

I feel about most of my childhood, 'cause I can't remember it.

Speaker 56:52

No. And also because you can't be in anyone else's head, you don't know what's "normal"- Yeah quote unquote, and what's not.

Speaker 2 56:58

got nothing to compare it to.

Speaker 56:59

Yeah. So the fact that I felt so out of it for ages, it was only really like afterwards where I was like, "I never used to feel like this, but I feel like this now." And actually trying to come back to- Yeah but you only know that through talking to other people, and I guess if Brenda didn't really have people that she felt like she could do that with, it's like-

Speaker 2 57:14

Yeah

Speaker 57:14

maybe she's just rolling with the punches. And she does have epilepsy, and I'm sure that, this is a thing that can happen to people, but it just feels like she, it- it's like sadistic pleasure that she was getting from- Yeah these shootings and stuff, and it just doesn't feel like it was, she was out of it. It felt like she was almost proud of it. Yeah. And the fact that afterwards she was just like, "Oh, go and fuck yourself, Dad," like, all of this stuff. It just didn't feel like it was, like, not her choice. I don't know.

Speaker 2 57:46

Yeah, like she was out of control. And like it does feel like an awfully long time to have been-

Speaker 57:50

Also, it-

Speaker 2 57:51

out of control you

Speaker 57:52

can't shoot that many people and then say, "Oh, I've got epilepsy" and then they say, "Oh, okay,

Speaker 2 57:56

Yeah "let her out." No prison time.

Speaker 57:57

She is dangerous.

Speaker 2 57:58

Yeah.

Speaker 57:58

So they're being like, "Even if that is the case thanks for working out-" Yeah maybe why she did it."

Speaker 2 58:02

something

Speaker 58:02

also- 'Cause she wasn't telling us

Speaker 2 58:03

wired wrong in your brain. Yeah. Like...

Speaker 58:05

We need to keep her in here until she's definitely-

Speaker 2 58:08

Yeah

Speaker 58:08

well enough to be out. So that didn't really do much. They didn't really get her anywhere, but it is interesting.

Speaker 2 58:14

Yeah.

Speaker 58:14

So Brenda is in a juvenile correction center until she's 18, which is when she takes the plea. So all of this stuff, like gathering all the evidence and everything takes two years. And she takes the plea and starts her 25-year sentence at 18. So she's in this juvenile correction center up until then. And during this time, Wally would visit her all the time. And whilst he was visiting her, he started to make friends with another person that was also in the juvenile detention center that Brenda was in.

Speaker 2 58:48

Yeah.

Speaker 58:48

I don't know how that's allowed.

Speaker 2 58:50

Yeah.

Speaker 58:50

Like leaning over and talking to the other table.

Speaker 2 58:53

Yeah.

Speaker 58:53

I don't know.

Speaker 2 58:53

The other kids.

Speaker 58:54

This person's name is Sheila McCoy, and she was also 16. Actually, I tell a lie I think she was 15 when they first met. And Wally likes her so much that even after Brenda gets moved at 18- He keeps going to see her he keeps going back to see her.

Speaker 2 59:13

forgot about this part of the story

Speaker 59:14

yeah. I read somewhere that it was maybe like a five-hour round trip- to prison So it ain't close. And somehow, I don't know how, one day Sheila manages to escape. I say escape, I think she just walks out. Yeah. It's the '70s, bro. They're just not, like-

Speaker 2 59:29

No

Speaker 59:29

And Wally, who's in his 50s, takes the 16-year-old away in his van. Oh my God, which means actually if she didn't leave till she was 18, and she was 16 when she left, that means that he was probably meeting up with her when she was 14.

Speaker 2 59:44

Yeah. That's when he decided he liked her. God. Fucking- horrible nonce.

Speaker 59:49

Yep, he takes her away in his van back to his home. He rented another apartment for her to chill in until the heat cooled off, But by the end of this year of the events in 1979, Sheila was actually pregnant with Wally's baby. They had a shotgun wedding and she had a baby called Briann. And they would all go together to visit Brenda as a family.

Speaker 2 1:00:12

Sorry, she'd broken out of juvenile detention center?

Speaker 1:00:16

And no one cared.

Speaker 2 1:00:17

And no one went looking for her?

Speaker 1:00:20

No one found her, no one cared. It's a five-hour round trip, mind. It's probably quite a lot of effort.

Speaker 2 1:00:25

And she would go to another juvenile detention center and visit?

Speaker 1:00:30

Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:00:31

What the fuck?

Speaker 1:00:31

She was 18, so she... it's still absolutely diabolical, but she would go to a prison.

Speaker 2 1:00:37

She'd walk into a prison even though she's a wanted fucking woman?

Speaker 1:00:40

Yeah. I don't understand. But I did read that it was like she wasn't meant to leave, like she wasn't just released.

Speaker 2 1:00:46

Yeah.

Speaker 1:00:47

He went and picked her up because she'd got out. And we're just

Speaker 2 1:00:49

totally fine with the fact that she was out when she was 16

Speaker 1:00:52

he had a baby with her. It's so messed up. I just don't even know. And then also in the doc, I can't remember what he says, but they say something like, "Oh, and let's talk about Brianne" or whatever, 'cause they split up loads of years later. Okay. And apparently Brenda and her really didn't get on. Oh, no, I don't mean Brianne. Sheila. Sheila. Not Brianne. Brianne's the kid. Brianne's the baby. Yeah, Brenda and Sheila just did not vibe obviously because Sheila's younger than Brenda.

Speaker 2 1:01:22

Yeah

Speaker 1:01:22

And they only sh- you know, her dad meeting her through so messed up.

Speaker 2 1:01:26

Yeah.

Speaker 1:01:27

But yeah, so she just doesn't like it. But w- in the doc when they say "Oh, what happened there?" He's "Let's not talk about what happened with her" and they're like, "Okay." And he's "I'm not talking about it." He doesn't really give insight as to what... But he probably just knows this 'cause he's just a big nonce, yeah,

Speaker 2 1:01:44

cause that classifies you as a pedophile.

Speaker 1:01:46

Oh, so bad. Yeah, so they didn't get along, They split up a few years later. It's just a bit of insight into whatever's going on in that man's head,

Speaker 2 1:01:54

right.

Speaker 1:01:54

So she's in prison. I think in 1993 she goes in for parole, so she's 30 at this age. She does an interview and she tells the parole people that she was so drunk and high that she was hallucinating and that's why she did it.

Speaker 2 1:02:10

Your toxicology says otherwise.

Speaker 1:02:12

Whoops. The police report does say that she was totally sober. Some drugs couldn't be tested back in '79, But some could, and the report said that she was completely sober, like not even alcohol. When they found her, she had half an empty bottle of Southern Comfort or something with her as well. And like her mate has said that they would go out and get pissed and do drugs. It's not like she'd never done them before.

Speaker 2 1:02:40

Yeah.

Speaker 1:02:40

And she was just saying, "Oh, I'm so fucked up right now."

Speaker 2 1:02:42

they found nothing on her.

Speaker 1:02:43

Yeah, like she wasn't, she might not have necessarily been on drugs- Or not in any kind of manner but she was drinking. And I don't know if maybe they just said, "Let's just leave the report as completely sober so that she goes down for what she's done here." But I don't think she was,

Speaker 2 1:02:58

like- Yeah

Speaker 1:02:58

absolutely wrecked

Speaker 2 1:02:59

off her

Speaker 1:03:00

drugs anyway. Or she hadn't

Speaker 2 1:03:01

drank that much and it was hours later when they finally had her in custody.

Speaker 1:03:06

Yeah. I don't think she was hallucinating 'cause she was so high. She would've been out of it. She wouldn't have been answering the phone to reporters and being like-

Speaker 2 1:03:12

I'm not

Speaker 1:03:13

until she goes to shoot" "What would happen if I did this?" Exactly. Like- Yeah, she wasn't fucking sent, but it just seems like weird that the report was completely like not a drop,

Speaker 2 1:03:26

yeah.

Speaker 1:03:27

But maybe they were just like, "Oh, there's a bit of alcohol, but if we just say that we..." I don't know. It's, again, it's the '70s. If they put down something like, "Oh, let's just say that there was no alcohol or drugs in her system, then at least we know that she'll go down for..." Which I'm not saying is okay, obviously. But that might have just been their thought process. I don't know. I can't say. But she's saying she was fucked, and the report's saying she was stone cold sober.

Speaker 2 1:03:51

Do you know what, Brenda? I don't believe you.

Speaker 1:03:52

Yeah, I don't believe her one bit. but I wouldn't not believe that she was having a bit of-

Speaker 2 1:03:57

Yeah

Speaker 1:03:58

it's just a bit odd, the whole thing. And then, yeah, I literally put here as well, but also even if you were, just take some responsibility. You're 30 now.

Speaker 2 1:04:06

Yeah.

Speaker 1:04:06

Coming back in and being like, "I'm ready to talk." I was actually high.

Speaker 2 1:04:09

say this last time, but- I was actually high. It wasn't my fault. Rather than being like, "Yeah, sorry, I was an asshole when I was a teenager."

Speaker 1:04:14

Yeah, exactly. So she gets... That gets rejected. She's diagnosed during this time as being antisocial with false sense of reality.

Speaker 2 1:04:26

Feels right.

Speaker 1:04:27

Yep. And then she just keeps turning down her paroles for a little bit. She keeps being eligible for them and then just is like, "No, I'm not ready." Then another time she turns it down because she doesn't wanna see one of the kids. I can't remember which one it is, like maybe Cameron or someone. But she says that she's not ready to see... sometimes she's "Oh, I'm not ready to leave." And then other times she's "I can't see the kids that she shot," even though they want to go to the hearings and stuff.

Speaker 2 1:04:54

Yeah.

Speaker 1:04:54

Some of them are just like, "I've stayed well away from her. She's wild." And then I ca- don't know what it is One guy is just really involved in the whole thing, basically. But I can't... Don't think I can remember. Maybe Charles? He's just really involved, yeah. And he wants to keep... I don't know, maybe he just wants to look her in the eye and be like- Yeah just to remind her-

Speaker 2 1:05:17

And,

Speaker 1:05:17

Wants to keep her in- of what you

Speaker 2 1:05:18

did.

Speaker 1:05:20

Yes, so he's the most present. He talks about how he wants everything to do with her, and he still relives the trauma every day of watching his teacher dying in front of him. Apparently Brenda also had a girlfriend in prison, and then she was released in 2000, and it sent Brenda into a spiral of depression. During this depression, she tattooed her own chest- In Viking runes, "Unforgiven and alone."

Speaker 2 1:05:45

Brenda seems to overreact.

Speaker 1:05:47

Yeah, she was quite over-dramatic. And also, apparently, the press actually release this and translate it wrong into something quite positive, like hope and delight- or something. And then they're like no, that says, 'Unforgiven and alone.'" At one of her paroles randomly in 2004, she comes out with the story that her dad had been sexually abusing her when she was a child up until the age of 14.

Speaker 2 1:06:09

I-

Speaker 1:06:09

that could very

Speaker 2 1:06:10

well be

Speaker 1:06:11

true

Speaker 2 1:06:11

actually think this is part of the story I would be willing to believe.

Speaker 1:06:14

Yeah, exactly. He sounds real fucking dodgy. Dot also says that they used to share a bed until she was around that age too, so 14, which would back up Brenda's statement. But again, it doesn't mean that you are allowed to shoot up a school-

Speaker 2 1:06:28

No

Speaker 1:06:28

just because you don't like Mondays.

Speaker 2 1:06:30

Yeah.

Speaker 1:06:31

Also, this is when Dot comes in and says, "I knew something sus was going on with him."

Speaker 2 1:06:35

Okay. Yeah. Then why did you leave one of them?

Speaker 1:06:37

did you... Why did she live with him?

Speaker 2 1:06:39

Yeah.

Speaker 1:06:39

Do you know what I mean? It's just absolutely not okay to be saying things like that. Also read about her having cellmates who had been abused. So It's also people with like bipolar or split personality or something, it's like sometimes quite dangerous to be hanging out with someone else- Yeah that's been going through trauma You can start to imitate. Yeah, because... But also, if she's living in a cell with someone that has and talks about it- Yeah it might also be-

Speaker 2 1:07:05

Maybe it's encouraging her to come forwards.

Speaker 1:07:06

Yeah, she might be like, "Oh, it's not this taboo thing that I can't ever talk about," or it might just be something actually that's not gonna be the end of me if I say it out

Speaker 2 1:07:15

loud.

Speaker 1:07:15

Yeah, and like the fact that he's just proved it in his later life anyway that

Speaker 2 1:07:19

he- Yeah

Speaker 1:07:19

likes them young, like I don't think that is too much of a stretch. I just think again, you can't just come in 15 years later and say, "I did it because I was abused."

Speaker 2 1:07:32

Yeah.

Speaker 1:07:32

And, it's just, it just can't... I just want her to be coming out with it because she's trying to heal, and not because she's trying to find an excuse.

Speaker 2 1:07:40

Yeah.

Speaker 1:07:41

And it just does feel

Speaker 2 1:07:42

like- She it doesn't feel like she's ever gonna be able to not give an excuse.

Speaker 1:07:45

Oh, I've put here Wally denies this and he stated, he stayed in the same house that Brenda shot up the school in till 2016 when he died.

Speaker 2 1:07:55

Oh, so he

Speaker 1:07:56

did. And he still went to see Brenda every single weekend, and she said, "We're

Speaker 2 1:08:00

mates."

Speaker 1:08:02

Even though she'd said he abused me, Wally said, "No, I didn't." And then she said that we're mates. And then they still hung out, and she said, "Yeah, we're mates. We moved past this stuff."

Speaker 2 1:08:10

So- As you do

Speaker 1:08:10

yeah, I don't know. It's just a very peculiar dynamic really, and you can see she hasn't had the best support- which is probably why she's gone down this route. But again, what the fuck did they do to you,

Speaker 2 1:08:25

yeah, those kids and those two teachers were nothing to do with you.

Speaker 1:08:29

Yeah, literally.

Speaker 2 1:08:30

They had nothing to do with what was going on-

Speaker 1:08:31

Literally

Speaker 2 1:08:32

with you.

Speaker 1:08:34

And the s- whatever else there be. Oh, so the school carried on. They got statues and plaques of Mr. Mike and Principal Burton Wragg. And the top of the charts hit song I Don't Mondays won Best Lyric Award amongst other awards in places that weren't the US after release. It did obviously have a bad rep in the US as it was seen as disrespectful. Yeah. And that is Brenda Spencer.

Speaker 2 1:08:55

I can totally understand how people would see that as disrespectful.

Speaker 1:08:58

completely.

Speaker 2 1:09:00

Could you imagine just listening to the fucking charts and you're a family member of someone that was there?

Speaker 1:09:05

Yeah. Any of those kids just coming into school, like... Imagine going back to school.

Speaker 2 1:09:11

Yeah.

Speaker 1:09:12

Imagine doing anything on your own. Imagine turning your back on a group. You just wouldn't even wanna look away for your whole life.

Speaker 2 1:09:20

God, I'd be so fucking paranoid.

Speaker 1:09:22

I know. Yeah, just so horrible. And the fact that there's so many people as well involved in that,

Speaker 2 1:09:28

Yeah

Speaker 1:09:28

there's 12 victims or something that all... two died, and the rest had to live with that forever and ever and ever. And the fact that it's just the teacher and the principal trying to come out and be like, "Don't worry, guys."

Speaker 2 1:09:41

I think the fact that they just fucking ran around- Ran out without thinking. Literally. Because they were like, "The people are being hurt." Yeah. "I'm gonna get out there," and then they were killed.

Speaker 1:09:50

upsetting. At least you know they were in the

Speaker 2 1:09:51

right

Speaker 1:09:52

line of work.

Speaker 2 1:09:53

Yeah.

Speaker 1:09:53

Cause

Speaker 2 1:09:53

protect the kids.

Speaker 1:09:54

people

Speaker 2 1:09:54

you want to- Do you know? teaching your kids.

Speaker 1:09:56

Yeah, wild times really.

Speaker 2 1:09:59

Wow. My throat

Speaker 1:10:00

hurts. You can hear it.

Speaker 2 1:10:01

I've had a little Google of her, and I think she has not long since been denied,

Speaker 1:10:07

Another parole?

Speaker 2 1:10:07

They... Yeah, parole again.

Speaker 1:10:10

Yeah that doesn't surprise me. I feel like until she starts trying to, like... I'm not saying that then she should be allowed

Speaker 2 1:10:16

It's just the longest, a long journey. She was denied parole again in Feb 2025.

Speaker 1:10:23

Interesting. Yeah, I just think until she starts taking some responsibility, they're never even gonna let her have a whiff of a parole. she sounds too unhinged to be let out into day-to-day life anyway. But at least if she was like I've been going through something, but I'm working on it," she might have a chance. But she's still just coming up with a new reasoning for it every few years, and I just think that's where it just doesn't really fly.

Speaker 2 1:10:47

can't have another hearing until 2028.

Speaker 1:10:51

Oh, that's good.

Speaker 2 1:10:53

But they said-

Speaker 1:10:54

Surely she's just so old now

Speaker 2 1:10:55

determined that she still posed an unreasonable risk to society.

Speaker 1:11:05

Yeah, she does not sound well. Yeah, That's it. It's 1:00 AM.

Speaker 2 1:11:09

Oh, it's 1:00 AM. We did good.

Speaker 1:11:12

Yeah, we did good.

Speaker 2 1:11:12

She's now 63 years old. So she spent so much of her life in prison.

Speaker 1:11:17

Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:11:19

That's fucked, man.

Speaker 1:11:20

Wouldn't you... if you go to prison that young as well, and you're just there your whole entire life, like, why would you even... Like, how would you... Wouldn't you be so terrified of the outside world? Yeah,

Speaker 2 1:11:28

40-odd years

Speaker 1:11:29

in

Speaker 2 1:11:29

prison.

Speaker 1:11:30

Oh my God. With no decor. Is that

Speaker 2 1:11:33

No, she's 63. That's not even good maths.

Speaker 1:11:35

40?

Speaker 2 1:11:37

30?

Speaker 1:11:39

7?

Speaker 2 1:11:39

Dunno.

Speaker 1:11:41

Oh, bye.

Speaker 2 1:11:42

Yeah. I've literally got up and gone. Bye.

Speaker 1:11:45

See you next week. Love you dearly.

Speaker 2 1:11:47

It's been swell. We just fucking stopped thinking then. Literally just went off.

Speaker 1:11:52

Okay, peace out, bye.