Dennis Rader Part Two

This week, we're returning to Wichita, Kansas, where the hunt for BTK is far from over. After years of silence, Dennis Rader's need for recognition draws him back into the spotlight, setting in motion the events that will ultimately lead to his capture.

In Part Two, we'll explore Rader's double life, the mistakes that exposed him, and how one of America's most infamous serial killers was finally brought to justice.

So grab a drink, settle in... because sometimes the greatest downfall comes from your own ego.

Transcript

Speaker 2 0:19

Let's fucking lock

Speaker 0:20

in. Yeah. Let's

Speaker 2 0:21

lock in.

Speaker 0:22

Seven minutes of this.

Speaker 2 0:23

I know. It's also a quarter to nine.

Speaker 0:24

Cut the first seven minutes immediately.

Speaker 2 0:26

So welcome to Kill The Mood Podcast. We're here to talk about everything spooky dooky. We're not professionals. None of those mouth noises please.

Speaker 0:35

Cut that shit out.

Speaker 2 0:36

We are not professionals and we mean no offense in anything we say. This is just us trying to make sense of the senseless. Without further ado, this week's case is...

Speaker 0:43

BTK part two. I actually think this one might be a bit shorter, 'cause I realized it was roughly around the same amount of words, but I actually have sources at the bottom of my, Yeah.

Speaker 2 0:53

But-

Speaker 0:54

So actually it's like- So maybe it's not bulking out a bit. Yeah So we can chat some nonsense here and it would, it won't be that bad of a thing. We just have

Speaker 2 0:59

nothing to say now.

Speaker 1:00

Yeah, literally nothing, 'cause we've, all we've done is slag him off. So yeah, should we just get straight into it? We've got nothing else to say, have we?

Speaker 2 1:06

Last week we murdered some people. He's a scumbag. He's a Christian.

Speaker 1:11

Yeah. That's all you need to know.

Speaker 2 1:13

Yeah. And go and listen to it. He

Speaker 1:14

likes to cut the phone lines and pretend he's a wanted man.

Speaker 2 1:17

Yeah. He just sounds real gross. And I would go and listen to it because you might be a little bit confused on the timeline if you haven't listened to it.

Speaker 1:23

Oh, yeah, for sure. For sure.

Speaker 2 1:26

For sure.

Speaker 1:26

Don't how long that ep was actually. I didn't see how long it ran. 70

Speaker 2 1:29

minutes, I think.

Speaker 1:29

Oh, nice.

Speaker 2 1:30

Maybe more, actually. I,

Speaker 1:31

I reckon that might be under an hour then, 'cause like we definitely were waffling at the beginning of that as well.

Speaker 2 1:35

Yeah. Also, I might have just made that up. I feel like I saw 70 at some point, but it might not have been at the end.

Speaker 1:39

Also, we were supposed to check YouTube and we just didn't even

Speaker 2 1:41

do that. Yeah.

Speaker 1:42

It doesn't matter. We'll look at it afterwards.

Speaker 2 1:43

It's fine.

Speaker 1:43

We've got- We've gotta make pizza that coming up now. Yeah. So we'll do it then. Okay. So BTK goes quiet for years. But he doesn't stop stalking or talking.

Speaker 2 1:54

I wrote that and

Speaker 1:54

I thought I was so funny. Literally had myself giggling in the living room while I was writing it.

Speaker 2 2:01

He is stalking and

Speaker 2:04

talking. And talking.

Speaker 2 2:05

Talking shite.

Speaker 2:06

Yeah, literally isn't... He obviously he's talking shite. So on the 31st of Jan 1978, Rader sends a letter to the classified ad department in Wichita. Ugh. It contained a poem that began with, Shirley locks", followed by a detailed description of Ouellette's murder.

Speaker 2 2:26

Right.

Speaker 2:26

The letter was addressed to the Beacon, but did not arrive for several weeks.

Speaker 2 2:31

Okay. God, I bet he was seething. Oh, yeah. He was like, "Where's my letter? Why haven't I

Speaker 2:36

heard anything?" I just imagine him sat at home, just like fucking shaking- yeah at the dinner table. And like his wife says something and he's just "Shut the fuck up, Sharon." "Shut the fuck up. Have you seen Royal Mail lately?"

Speaker 2 2:50

He's just like reading up in the newspaper about trying to find if there's any strikes or anything- Yeah in the post.

Speaker 2:55

Literally. And I just imagine he constantly around work and a- around his family, he's just "Oh my God. Did you hear that? Did you hear about this murder?"

Speaker 2 3:02

Yeah. I-

Speaker 3:03

Yeah he just, he strikes me as like a... I was gonna say glory hunter. That's not right, is it? That's like when you pick a football team because they're good- Yeah rather than your dad supported it,

Speaker 2 3:13

yeah. Like- More like a thrill, a...

Speaker 3:16

Yeah, not a thrill-seeker either. What were you gonna say then? Like a, like a-

Speaker 2 3:21

Dickhead.

Speaker 3:22

Yeah. Like a dickhead. Yeah. But- That'll do

Speaker 2 3:26

yeah, just someone that's co- constantly trying to stir the pot- Yeah and is like-

Speaker 3:31

But like he's Icarus, isn't he? Yeah. 'Cause he's flying way too close to the

Speaker 2 3:35

sun. Yeah.

Speaker 3:35

And that is actually what happens with him. Yeah. He just gets a little bit too fucking bold.

Speaker 2 3:41

But it's like mad, isn't it? Because it's if this is your like calling, why are you m- if you think you can justify the fact that you can do this stuff, it means that you have this level in yourself that thinks that you have a right or someone's given you a right- Yeah to take life. Yet you're not saying, "Oh, this is my birth this is my vibe. This is, I've found my calling." Why wouldn't you just try and do it for as long as possible?

Speaker 4:04

Yeah.

Speaker 2 4:04

Instead of-

Speaker 4:05

I also

Speaker 2 4:05

wonder how long- just ruining your own-

Speaker 4:07

Yeah plans. I wonder how long the gratification- Yeah it does, he does, to be fair, BTK does go on for a really long time. But like how long does the gratification last of you getting caught?

Speaker 2 4:18

Yeah.

Speaker 4:19

Sitting in the interrogation room and then telling everyone exactly what you did in great detail and having a great time, and loving- It's

Speaker 2 4:26

Oh, was that all worth it- it was it, mate?

Speaker 4:27

And then sat in prison.

Speaker 2 4:29

Yeah. For the rest of your life. You must be like, that, like-

Speaker 4:32

At what point in that timeline do you go, "Yeah, that wasn't worth it."?

Speaker 2 4:35

I know. Just go and do slam poetry or something. Do you know what I mean? If you want people to listen to what you have to say, you don't need to murder a shitload of people- No and then confess. You could do a lot of different things before- Like,

Speaker 4:45

be

Speaker 2 4:46

interesting.

Speaker 4:47

Yeah. Yeah. How about that? Have you ever tried

Speaker 2 4:49

being interesting, Dennis?

Speaker 4:50

Literally.

Speaker 2 4:51

Because I tell you, it does a world of good. Yeah. People do listen when you're interesting. Maybe as well he's being like, "Oh, the confession is, like, where it's at because everyone will be, like, hanging on my every word, and I can't spell. So no one's-" ever done that before anyway."

Speaker 5:07

No one can hang on my words 'cause they don't know what I'm

Speaker 2 5:09

saying. Yeah, exactly. So the only way I can do it is through a confession tape.

Speaker 5:12

Yeah.

Speaker 2 5:12

Where I get to set the scene,

Speaker 5:14

yeah, but like it's really funny because- But

Speaker 2 5:15

it's so theatrical

Speaker 5:17

also he is renowned, like so many people, like every time you hear pe- hear people talk about Dennis Rader- They literally are like, "He's such a wet fucking flannel."

Speaker 2 5:25

Yeah.

Speaker 5:26

And even he's gone down in history-

Speaker 2 5:28

Yeah

Speaker 5:29

as a wet flannel.

Speaker 2 5:30

Yeah, honestly. Just-

Speaker 5:32

Even though he's a serial

Speaker 2 5:33

killer I know. It's so embarrassing, mate. Yeah. It's actually so embarrassing. He's just th- gone to prison, like- I just would be so curious to see if he To, just to know if in the back of his mind when he's going off to prison he's "Fuck, that wasn't as good as I thought it was gonna be."

Speaker 5:47

Yeah. I hope so.

Speaker 2 5:48

Yeah, I hope so.

Speaker 5:49

I fucking hope so. I hope he finally got caught and was like, "Oh, I'm getting all this media attention. Oh my God, I'm really enjoying telling them about the murder- Yeah murderers." And then- They shut the door on him that first night they shut the door on the cell and he's like-

Speaker 2 6:01

Oh, wait, I'm not famous?"

Speaker 6:02

Wait, no one cares anymore?"

Speaker 2 6:03

Yeah.

Speaker 6:03

Oh, the story's over?"

Speaker 2 6:05

Oh, I just walk around this prison." "Oh,

Speaker 6:06

that's the end of it, is it?"

Speaker 2 6:06

Yeah. And it's like the fact that you're also going to a place where there's other top, top p- like top-notch like- Top-notch

Speaker 6:13

murderers

Speaker 2 6:13

top-notch criminals. But the biggest criminals ever, they're gonna be like, "Oh, my God, no way. Your story's mad." But then they're gonna be like, "Listen to mine. Mine's also mad." Yeah.

Speaker 6:21

Also, it's the '70s. There's so many serial killers. Yeah. You probably weren't even the biggest serial killer- Like, you probably- in that prison

Speaker 2 6:25

yeah, you were probably the most interesting for the day.

Speaker 6:27

Yeah.

Speaker 2 6:28

And then that was literally it. Flavor of the week. Someone else came in the next day with something else. Was that worth it, mate?

Speaker 6:34

Yeah.

Speaker 2 6:35

I don't think so. I

Speaker 6:36

don't think so.

Speaker 2 6:38

So annoying. Anyway, yeah.

Speaker 6:40

Yeah. So in 1979, he breaks into 63-year-old Anna Williams' house and waits in her closet. This is what fucking scared the shit out of me. She stays out super late with friends. Oh wait. No, sorry, that's not This was not the one that scares me. Sh- yeah, she stays out super late with friends and Brady gets bored and leaves. But later mails her a creepy p- poem, which is, "Oh, Anna, why didn't you appear?" That was the poem I was talking about- Yeah in part one. Yeah, creepy as shit. Shall I see if I can find it? Shall I do a-

Speaker 2 7:10

Yeah

Speaker 7:10

dramatic reading of- I wanna

Speaker 2 7:12

see the spelling errors

Speaker 7:12

Oh, Anna, why didn't you appear?

Speaker 2 7:16

When you first read it, I was like, "That's not a poem." I thought that was it. And I was like-

Speaker 7:20

That's obviously not a poem

Speaker 2 7:21

I feel like I've watched something to do with this poem, like a drama or something where I've definitely It's That, this one is in my brain,

Speaker 7:34

Okay, I found it on good old Reddit. Fab. "Oh, Anna, why didn't you appear? 'Twas perfect plan of deviant pleasure, so bold on the spring night. My inner feeling..." Night was spelt N-I-T-E, by the way.

Speaker 3 7:49

Yes.

Speaker 7:49

My inner..." And then he put a ca- a capital M for my. I'm wondering if this is the person or this is actually Radar, but I'm just gonna tell you what the issues are in this. "My inner feeling hot with propension of n- the new awakening season."

Speaker 2 8:06

Oh my God, give him

Speaker 8:07

this. "Worn wet with inner fear and rapture. My pleasure of entanglement like new vines at night. Oh, Anna, why didn't you appear? Drop of fear fresh spring rain would roll down from your nakedness to scent, to lofty fever that burns within."

Speaker 2 8:24

What are you saying? "In that

Speaker 8:25

small world of longing, fear, rapture and desperation, the game we play fall on devil ears, fantasy spring forth." So many weird places that there's commas as well.

Speaker 2 8:36

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like the way that you're reading it is like you're trying to make it sound normal.

Speaker 8:39

No, it's all one sentence. There's no punctuation and there's just like weird commas.

Speaker 2 8:45

Yeah. That just be like...

Speaker 8:46

Yeah.

Speaker 2 8:48

Ugh.

Speaker 8:48

Anyway, I'm not gonna read the rest- Yeah 'cause it goes on. But yeah, it's that. It's terrible.

Speaker 2 8:53

Bro's waffling some Christian shit right there.

Speaker 8:54

Yeah. Absolute fucking nonsense. Means nothing to nobody. So yeah. And then-

Speaker 2 8:59

Also, where's he write... Is it like just sat on her bed like, "I might write a poem"-

Speaker 9:02

Yeah

Speaker 2 9:03

cause she didn't show up"? And then he's just come up with that nonsense.

Speaker 9:05

Also, babe-

Speaker 2 9:06

Feel

Speaker 9:06

the rapture if you can't fucking

Speaker 2 9:07

spell, maybe leave poetry alone. Literally. I think that's quite a fundamental part of it. I can just imagine him like drawing her. Like a little stick man picture.

Speaker 9:17

I hope that just got lost in the post. He's livid about it as well. So 1985 rolls round and he kills Maureen Hedge, 53, who lives right down the street from him.

Speaker 2 9:31

Oh, God.

Speaker 9:31

So he refers to her as Project Cookie. No idea why. He said he did it because he wanted to see if he could kill someone close to him and get away with it. Yeah. That's the only reason she had to die.

Speaker 2 9:43

Yeah. And this is because no one's even come close and he's just tempting fate.

Speaker 9:48

Yeah, he's just having a good time now. Yeah. So what, we... This started in '74, I think.

Speaker 2 9:53

Yeah.

Speaker 9:53

So it's been 10 years.

Speaker 2 9:54

Also, that is a thing of him just like saying to the people that are interviewing him "You guys were doing so bad at catching me that I thought-" "I'd mix it up" what if I just killed someone down the road and you, I still got away with it?"

Speaker 10:04

Yeah. So he was on a Cub Scout outing, but he faked a headache giving him the opportunity to leave and commit the crime he does the whole, this whole routine of basically going to a bar-

Speaker 2 10:17

Yeah

Speaker 10:17

pretending to drink, swishing the drink round his mouth and then spitting it out and pouring it on his clothes so he stinks of alcohol.

Speaker 2 10:24

Right.

Speaker 10:24

Then calling a taxi to his road.

Speaker 2 10:27

Yeah.

Speaker 10:28

And on it he's slurring his words and stuff. Yeah, he's slurring his words and stuff so that if someone listened back to the call-

Speaker 2 10:35

Yeah

Speaker 10:35

they'd be like, "Oh, yeah, he's obviously really pissed." And then he gets dropped near her house.

Speaker 2 10:39

Right.

Speaker 10:40

Because obviously it's on his road. Yeah. That's not particularly difficult.

Speaker 2 10:43

Yeah.

Speaker 10:44

He then cuts the phone lines to her house.

Speaker 2 10:47

Oh, he loves that.

Speaker 10:48

Yeah, loves doing that. She comes home, but with her boyfriend. So Rader stays hidden.

Speaker 2 10:56

Oh my God.

Speaker 10:57

This is the one that really bothered me.

Speaker 2 10:58

Yeah.

Speaker 10:59

He creeps out once he is gone. So he's there for hours, hiding in a cupboard- Oh waiting for this guy to leave. Also, so brave of you to assume that he'd be leaving.

Speaker 2 11:08

Yeah.

Speaker 11:09

Because he could've just stayed.

Speaker 2 11:10

I guess he'd then just wait till they were both asleep- Asleep and then just come

Speaker 11:13

out and jump on her. Yeah. He probably just killed him and then tied her up,

Speaker 2 11:16

yeah.

Speaker 11:17

Anyway, so he then, yeah he creeps out-

Speaker 2 11:22

Hiding where? In her wardrobe, I assume.

Speaker 11:23

It, yeah, in a closet, I think it is.

Speaker 2 11:24

Oh, gosh, imagine. No.

Speaker 11:26

And he waits for her to go to sleep. Oh

Speaker 2 11:29

my God.

Speaker 11:30

He... And when he's confident she's asleep he creeps out. And when he does this, he strangles her, and then he loads her into his car and drives her to his own church- Oh in the dead of night. What? He then poses her body- Oh in the b- in the basement of the Christ Lutheran Church- To take Polaroid pho- photos. Oh. He then cleans up the scene and goes and dumps her in a ditch.

Speaker 2 11:56

What was the point? Just do that at hers.

Speaker 11:59

Yeah.

Speaker 2 12:00

Don't do any of

Speaker 12:01

that- Yeah obviously. But what... It's the... It's every time he goes to church now he'll know that he's had-

Speaker 2 12:08

He's done, yeah his own slice of this- He's

Speaker 12:09

obviously been thinking about doing that as well this thing of life. He's obviously- Yeah really wanted to take a body. I I just think he loves the depravity of it. Yeah. The idea that he's this image and he's bringing her to this holy place-

Speaker 2 12:20

Yeah

Speaker 12:21

doing this absolutely crazy act. It, yeah. And then he'll go

Speaker 2 12:25

back in tomorrow and spread good blessings and kind words. Yeah. And then he'll go down to the basement and be like-

Speaker 12:30

And know what he did down there "I remember

Speaker 2 12:32

my thing that I-"

Speaker 12:33

And he'll have the Polaroids of her, like what he did to her body So

Speaker 2 12:39

in

Speaker 12:40

1986, he sees Vicki Lynn, 28, getting to her car, and then begins stalking her for the rest of the year. On September 16th, 1986, he poses as a telephone company technician- To get into her neighbor's house and pretends to do work. He does this so that when he knocks on her door, it's easier for him to gain entry. How fucking gross is that?

Speaker 2 13:09

What do you mean?

Speaker 13:10

So he does this- So that she'll see- on the off chance that she might see him-

Speaker 2 13:14

And trust that he's-

Speaker 13:14

doing work and trust that he's just going house to house and doing everybody's. Ugh.

Speaker 2 13:19

My gosh.

Speaker 13:20

Yeah then he knocks on her house and then gains entry

Speaker 2 13:25

It's like he sat there thinking about all of these really smart... 'Cause he's not this stupid idiot, but it's like he's really well thought through that- Yeah because he's being like, "She might not even see me," but it's a slow game. It's- Yeah it's slow and steady. It's taking it one little approach at a time until you get to the- But do you not just think he's- And then he does it, or he commits the crime, and then he just starts acting like a reckless twat Do

Speaker 13:48

you not think he's also over-egging it?

Speaker 2 13:50

Because if anything, all you've

Speaker 13:51

done is go to her house-

Speaker 2 13:54

He's either trying to get in her car and then starting the car one of the girl's cars, and then get, starting the car and then running off, and then it's not working, and then he's f- fumbling, and then he drives the family's car back to the house to go and get the knife and all of this dumb shit. Or he's being like- But you've gone- vague that it just doesn't even

Speaker 14:08

matter it's convoluted as fuck. It's convoluted as-

Speaker 2 14:10

He thinks he's in a film

Speaker 14:11

you've gone to a neighbor's house, who can now potentially identify you-

Speaker 2 14:16

Yeah

Speaker 14:16

and say, "Yeah, there was a guy that came round, check our telephone lines." All you have to do is go to the telephone company and be like, "Yeah, we never had anyone out there that day."

Speaker 2 14:23

Yeah.

Speaker 14:24

And then you say yeah, I did also see him go to her house- Yeah and then she was dead."

Speaker 2 14:27

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 14:28

And now you can describe this man. I don't, and I don't,

Speaker 2 14:32

obviously,

Speaker 14:32

that's

Speaker 2 14:32

not a focal point He thinks he's in a film though, doesn't he? He's like-

Speaker 14:35

Yeah

Speaker 2 14:36

it's all the chase. It's like the predatory, he's trying to be like all schmoozy "I've thought of everything." You

Speaker 14:42

know? Yeah. But you've overcomplicated it. But

Speaker 2 14:44

you've, yeah, you've made it weird. Just i- if some of them, you'll just walk into their house and get in their cupboard.

Speaker 14:49

Yeah.

Speaker 2 14:50

Also what the fuck is someone just... Ugh,

Speaker 14:52

no. So he gets into her house, and then he says "I'm here to look at the phone," and then she shows him to the ph- where the phone is, and then he pulls out a gun on her and orders her to the bedroom. He then does his usual routine and he kills her, and he takes pictures of her body. He, so while this is happening, she's saying to him p- "My husband's gonna be home soon." "He's coming home. He's coming home." This doesn't deter him from t- he kills her quickly- He's still taking his time but he still takes, he takes, still takes photos of her body. He then flees in her car and actually passes her husband on the way out. Oh my

Speaker 2 15:30

God. And he

Speaker 15:31

sees- That's how close it was

Speaker 2 15:32

does he see her car?

Speaker 15:34

I think so. Oh my gosh. Her husband does. But the saddest thing about this is her husband was believed to have done it for over two decades. Oh my God. Oh

Speaker 2 15:43

my God.

Speaker 15:44

So he was blamed by people in the community, and even police officers- Oh my God because BTK wasn't discovered- yeah for a really long time

Speaker 2 15:52

So sad

Speaker 15:53

Yeah. So in 1991, he-

Speaker 2 15:57

And is it only when he comes out and says, "That one was me" that-

Speaker 16:00

Yeah when BTK confesses

Speaker 2 16:02

it's like, it, why does that, even that get to be on his terms? Yeah You know what I mean? It's "Oh, I could have just

Speaker 16:06

said I didn't do that one." Also,

Speaker 2 16:07

You've b-

Speaker 16:07

ruined so many lives- Yeah and like you're ruining so many more lives, and like you don't even think it's a big deal. Yeah. I actually... This is gonna be such a short episode, I think.

Speaker 2 16:17

That's fine.

Speaker 16:18

Yeah. I think it actually might be suited up. Yeah. So in 1991, he kills his final victim- Dolores Davis, 62, on January 18th, 1991. So the Trapper Scouts were having their annual Dead of Winter outing. And Rader went to the park and set up camp before fabricating a story and leaving.

Speaker 2 16:40

How often is he doing that as well?

Speaker 16:41

Yeah. So he's using it as a cover.

Speaker 2 16:44

Even though he's supposed to be like a chaperone.

Speaker 16:45

Yeah, like he's literally part of the scouts. So he then drives to Park City Baptist Church.

Speaker 2 16:53

Yeah.

Speaker 16:55

He leaves his car there. He, and then he leaves the church grounds and walks through adjoining wheat fields, and then cuts through a cemetery to get to Davis's house. He does his same routine. Cuts the phone lines, breaks in and says he's on the run, and then he strangles her to death after he's managed to get her to comply. So he like gets her to a place where she thinks, "Okay, I'm... He just wants the stuff off me." Yeah. "I'll be okay if I just do what he says", and then he kills her.

Speaker 2 17:21

Oh, God.

Speaker 17:22

It's like he... That, even that part of him, his routine, he really fucking loves.

Speaker 2 17:25

Yeah. He loves making people, what, not chill out, but s- almost like he... 'Cause it's the way that he says right at, back at the start when he's like getting someone a pillow- because they're in pain. It's like he thinks he's like being chivalrous. Yeah. Or he's being like, "Just calm down, my love. It's all gonna be okay." And when he- So that, what, they do visibly calm down, or he just likes to torn- or torment?

Speaker 17:47

Yeah.

Speaker 2 17:48

Or maybe there's a split second where he's "Maybe I will let them go", and then he decides not to every time. What is the thought process? Is it that like-

Speaker 17:55

I think he just loves this like juxtaposition. He

Speaker 2 17:58

could be- Like this, I could- kind kill you, but I also couldn't kill you. Yeah. But I could. I'm a

Speaker 18:02

good man. But I couldn't. But I'm not a good man. But

Speaker 2 18:03

now I'm gonna.

Speaker 18:04

Yeah.

Speaker 2 18:04

Yeah.

Speaker 18:05

And I d- I think he never has an in- intention of leaving any of his victims alive, which is why anyone who did actually come face to face with BTK didn't survive.

Speaker 2 18:14

Yeah.

Speaker 18:14

He doesn't have any surviv- surviving victims. He doesn't... I don't think he intends on keeping anyone alive at all.

Speaker 2 18:20

Yeah.

Speaker 18:21

He loves toying with people, though, and he loves like making them think that maybe he might leave them alive. Yeah,

Speaker 2 18:27

yeah. And it's like that thing that when you're already absolutely terrified for your life. Lickies. Then- Give me lickies what, and then someone's like potentially giving you that out.

Speaker 18:41

Yeah.

Speaker 2 18:41

And saying "If you comply-

Speaker 18:43

Yeah

Speaker 2 18:44

you might get away with it." It's like... Yeah, it's just his sick game, isn't it?

Speaker 18:49

Yeah. It is. It's literally all part of his ritual, I think.

Speaker 2 18:51

That he can watch ha- have-

Speaker 18:53

Yeah. That,

Speaker 2 18:53

it is

Speaker 18:53

happening. He

Speaker 2 18:54

has

Speaker 18:54

all of that control all the time. Yeah. Just like you, Willow. You have all the control. She's got all the control.

Speaker 2 19:02

Got the control.

Speaker 19:05

Rader uses a bedspread to drag Davis's body to her car and then puts her in the trunk He drives her car to a lake where he dumped her body in the bushes. He then- Was she

Speaker 2 19:16

60-odd?

Speaker 19:17

Did she say? Ye- yeah, she was 62.

Speaker 2 19:20

Bro, it's just not even going for... Oh, just to

Speaker 19:22

be- Yeah, I know. It's crazy. I always say this every time we talk about an older victim. I just feel like there should be some point in your life where you can say, "Yeah, confidently, I'm not gonna be a murder victim."

Speaker 2 19:32

Yeah. It's like especially if you've been seeing on the news about people coming home from work or whatever and these people that are in their 20s or whatever.

Speaker 19:39

Yeah.

Speaker 2 19:40

And you're

Speaker 19:40

like- But he's got no, like-

Speaker 2 19:42

Mo- Yeah he's got

Speaker 19:44

no

Speaker 2 19:44

profile, has he? No. He's just like-

Speaker 19:44

Cause he's gone all

Speaker 2 19:45

over the place someone that he's taken a liking to.

Speaker 19:48

And even, a couple of men.

Speaker 2 19:50

Yeah. And kids and everything. He's just everywhere.

Speaker 19:54

Sorry, I wasn't laughing at that. Willow lipped me. She loves the tits. Yeah. So he then drives back to her home- Threw her keys on the roof. Because apparently he'd read that the at the Oter- Otero's murder they'd looked for their keys on the roof.

Speaker 2 20:14

Right.

Speaker 20:15

So he thought that was a funny, cool little detail.

Speaker 2 20:17

Yeah, to, like- So he

Speaker 20:18

decided to put her keys on the roof.

Speaker 2 20:19

Yeah, like you looked last time and it wasn't there, but this time you might not look and it is there. Yeah.

Speaker 20:23

You okay? You hot? So then Rader walks back to the Park City Baptist Church car park- to pick up his car. Drives back to the lake where he's

Speaker 2 20:36

What do you want?

Speaker 20:37

Drives back to the lake where he's dumped Davis's body- And then drives it out to a th- and then collects her body, and then drives it out to a rural area where he dumps it again under a bridge. Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 20:48

What is going on in there?

Speaker 20:49

I don't know.

Speaker 2 20:50

I feel like he's probably just thrown the body in the river and been like, "I could also just get that out and go somewhere else- Yeah and they still wouldn't catch me."

Speaker 20:58

I don't know what he's... I do literally have no idea what is going through his brain, and I don't understand what the thought process is here, but he's just- He's giving, like- He's just so all over the place

Speaker 2 21:08

he's giving Homer Simpson.

Speaker 21:09

Yeah. Do you know

Speaker 2 21:10

what I mean? Like, when he's just, maybe it's in The Simpsons Movie where he's trying to get out- When he drives the picture of his face. And he's, yeah, and he's hitting in all the cars, and then he drives into that thing, and then he dr- or drives through a wall, and then he's walking into stuff. And it's "What are you doing?"

Speaker 21:21

Yeah.

Speaker 2 21:22

You're literally... How do you have kids?

Speaker 21:25

Yeah.

Speaker 2 21:25

Do you know what I mean? Like, how are you just running around like this? How

Speaker 21:26

are you a functioning member of society? What are you doing? What are you doing? You've gotta stop being so cute. It's really distracting. Her little teeth's out this way as well

Speaker 2 21:39

Get your little teethies out.

Speaker 21:41

Little teethies yeah. He's just like bumbling mess. Yeah Bumbling mess of a man. And yeah, I don't know. And

Speaker 2 21:49

still

Speaker 21:49

got

Speaker 2 21:49

away with it for all this time.

Speaker 21:51

Yeah. So he elected to leave immediately without taking pictures of the body because he needed to get back to the Scouts camp before his absence raised suspicion. Okay. So he basically Yeah, he doesn't even do all of that to take pictures of the body. He's not moving her and stuff. He's-

Speaker 2 22:10

He's just "Get a quick kill in, but I'll just take her out and then-"

Speaker 22:12

Yeah

Speaker 2 22:12

dump

Speaker 22:12

her somewhere else. And it's like he, he's thrown her out the car panicked, then been like, "I'll go back to the house. Okay, get my car. Okay, go back and get her. Okay, g- now go dump her by a bridge." Like, why? What are you doing?

Speaker 2 22:21

Yeah. And then he's been like, "Wait a minute, I was meant to be at Scouts."

Speaker 22:24

Yeah. "Oh, my God. I

Speaker 2 22:26

need to go back there." Around the campfire. And then he's "I haven't got time to do my normal spiel, my normal ritual because we have to I have to go back and then be like a chaperone to loads of children." Yeah.

Speaker 22:35

Mad. So his son, by the way, is part of the Scouts and is on these trips with him when he's up to this nonsense.

Speaker 2 22:42

No. No freaking way.

Speaker 22:44

So right after this, he gets a job as a Park City compliance officer. So now he's walking around in a real uniform

Speaker 2 22:53

Okay

Speaker 22:53

with a badge, and he's fining people for things like long grass- and using his authority to spy on neighbors and map out their houses. But no actual killing. In this role, neighbors described Rader as being sometimes overzealous and extremely strict.

Speaker 2 23:10

Right.

Speaker 23:11

One neighbor c- recalled observing Rader in their front lawn with a tape meas- measure trying to determine if their grass was too long.

Speaker 2 23:18

What an absolute nightmare.

Speaker 23:20

Yeah.

Speaker 2 23:22

And that- He sounds insufferable.

Speaker 23:23

Yeah. He literally is insufferable.

Speaker 2 23:25

Oh.

Speaker 23:27

Another- claimed they spotted Rader in their adjoining backyards filming their house. And a female neighbor complained that Rader killed her dog for no reason. So he could report dangerous animals and stuff and get them put down, and he did that to her dog- He used it for fun for literally no reason. Oh

Speaker 2 23:44

my gosh, Willow, no, don't listen.

Speaker 23:46

And this is the start of 13 years of absolute silence.

Speaker 2 23:50

Mad

Speaker 23:51

the public thinks that BTK is dead or moved away or locked up forever. A- and they don't know where he's gone, and they don't know why he stopped killing, but he just stops for 13 years. Apparently in this time, Rader spends his time dressing up in women's clothes and tying himself up and taking pictures to try and placate his need to do this.

Speaker 2 24:11

Yeah.

Speaker 24:12

I don't really... I never really found why he stopped- Stopped. Yeah what his reasoning is for stopping.

Speaker 2 24:20

It also sounds like the way that last killing went down and the way that he couldn't make his mind up and he was freaking himself out is did he think he was gonna get caught? Did he think he was starting to be a bit shit at the plan?

Speaker 24:31

Yeah

Speaker 2 24:31

It's mad, isn't it? How someone can... Their brain can be wired for them to do something that disgusting- Yeah that many times, and then one day they're just like, "That's me done."

Speaker 24:40

And apparently to get through it, he would like... Oh,

Speaker 2 24:43

where's my notes gone? Wear a skirt.

Speaker 24:44

Not just that. He would t- to, He would pretend that he was his victims, the, when he was, like, tying himself up and stuff. And I'm guessing he used the photos of them as well as, like- yeah,

Speaker 2 24:52

yeah. Yeah. He's got memorabilia,

Speaker 24:54

hasn't he? He's- Yeah he's killing, like- So he's using them as material. And apparently he just foc- started focusing on f- work and family life instead. He just decided. But

Speaker 2 25:01

how can someone- I

Speaker 25:02

don't know

Speaker 2 25:03

it just blows my mind. That's, I think that makes him even worse- Yeah in my mind, because it's like- That

Speaker 25:07

it's not even a

Speaker 2 25:08

compulsion

Speaker 25:08

he

Speaker 2 25:08

could've just... Yeah. It's not even like he's gone- Could've just not done it so far that he is got caught or that he can't... it's he's saying he's a serial killer, but he's a serial killer that didn't really have to do any of that.

Speaker 25:19

Yeah.

Speaker 2 25:20

That just could've stopped whenever he wanted. Just

Speaker 25:21

does it 'cause he fancies

Speaker 2 25:22

it. It's like he could've stopped five people before. You could've stopped 10 people before. You could've just never done it in the first place. That's what you're telling me. If you can have- Yeah over a decade off. A decade. Yeah. 13 years. That is a mad amount of time. It's

Speaker 25:36

so crazy. And then for you to look people in the eye and say- I was even 18

Speaker 2 25:41

13 years ago "I just couldn't stop myself." Yeah. What... If I just randomly started getting up to the nonsense that I was up to at 15 now, I'd... What?

Speaker 25:48

Yeah.

Speaker 2 25:48

That makes it... That just means that, yeah, the, the-

Speaker 25:51

And also, it's quite a ter- it's quite a terrifying premise that, like- I think some part of you wants to believe that serial killers can't help themselves. Like-

Speaker 2 26:02

Yeah that they- That's what I mean. I feel like-

Speaker 26:03

Yeah

Speaker 2 26:05

i'm never saying it's fine. Never. Because you sh- you know right from wrong, and you shouldn't do things like that. She's cute.

Speaker 26:10

But Willow's just deciding- Sorry to be the cutest fucking thing ever right now. I can see.

Speaker 2 26:14

You look like a devil.

Speaker 26:15

Yeah.

Speaker 3 26:15

Gremlin. Little Willow.

Speaker 26:17

Little gremlin. Her little yeah, like it is such a scary little premise.

Speaker 2 26:25

Yeah. That that- I want... I don't want to, but like I want to believe that people that make a decision to do that and then keep doing that-

Speaker 26:32

Yeah

Speaker 2 26:33

means that there's something fundamentally-

Speaker 26:35

Like you, you need them to be monsters, don't you?

Speaker 2 26:37

Yeah.

Speaker 26:37

You ha- they have to be monsters because if that is just- Something in the brain- something that somebody chooses to do-

Speaker 2 26:42

Yeah

Speaker 26:42

that is terrifying. And that somebody then chooses-

Speaker 2 26:45

It's

Speaker 26:45

Oh, was it not good enough- to

Speaker 2 26:46

stop doing yeah, was it not good enough for you, was it?

Speaker 26:47

Yeah.

Speaker 2 26:48

Were they not good enough? Did they not satisfy your needs?

Speaker 26:50

Yeah.

Speaker 2 26:51

To the point where you didn't just keep going further and further until... You just were like, "Oh, I guess I'll just

Speaker 26:57

live my life over." And it's just he's just "Yeah, I got busy."

Speaker 2 26:58

I was hyper fixated on being

Speaker 27:00

murdered for a

Speaker 2 27:00

while.

Speaker 27:00

Just got like really, just got really busy and just like- Yeah it was actually enough for me to just tie myself up. Yeah. And you're like, "Then why weren't you doing that the whole time?"

Speaker 2 27:06

Why weren't you doing that the entire time? Don't bring other people into your shit.

Speaker 27:11

Yeah. Oh.

Speaker 2 27:12

Willow hates

Speaker 27:13

this. So January 2004 rolls around. So obviously it's been a big old time. And The Wichita Eagle, which is a newspaper, runs-

Speaker 2 27:22

I was like, "Yeah, please

Speaker 27:23

summarize" yeah, summarize. I don't know. Runs a 30th anniversary story on the Otero murders. Basically saying, "BTK is a forgotten ghost who probably just faded into history." Damn. And as you can imagine- Bird's not okay with that he did not fucking like that.

Speaker 2 27:38

Yeah.

Speaker 27:39

So then he's like-

Speaker 3 27:41

Not

Speaker 27:41

my big

Speaker 3 27:42

name" so

Speaker 27:42

yeah. Yeah. Rader's massive ego cannot handle being a nobody or being forgotten.

Speaker 2 27:48

That's so embarrassing.

Speaker 27:49

So even though he's gotten away with this for 30 years, he's like- "I've gotta say something" "I know. I have to say something. I've gotta-" Honestly. Yeah. Men. Men.

Speaker 2 28:02

What is going on?

Speaker 28:03

Men, Willow.

Speaker 2 28:04

Men.

Speaker 28:05

Men. Yeah March 2004, the paper gets a letter from D- Bill Thomas Killman.

Speaker 2 28:12

Right. Killman.

Speaker 28:14

With with photos of Nancy Fox's crime scene and a copy of her driver's license. So obviously they're like, "This is BTK"

Speaker 2 28:22

This is BTK", yeah.

Speaker 28:23

And-

Speaker 2 28:23

And all it took was some lass to be like, "You're boring"

Speaker 28:26

yeah. "You're basic. Fucking nobody cares about BTK. No one's even scared of him anymore"

Speaker 2 28:32

Literally.

Speaker 28:32

And he's "What? What do you mean?"

Speaker 2 28:34

You're not scared of me?"

Speaker 28:36

You wanna see what I can do? I can send a badly written letter"

Speaker 2 28:39

Yeah, exactly. "I can't spell, but I can kill." Yeah. "And I'll prove it." You shot yourself in the foot there, matey.

Speaker 28:46

So basically he then spends all of 2004 dropping off packages in public parks and taping and taping them to highway signs, and he has creepy puzzles. And he's binding Barbie dolls and stuff. Trying to be, like, super cool and the, make the legend continue.

Speaker 2 29:01

Yeah.

Speaker 29:02

So in early 2005, he's basically got quite tired of typing.

Speaker 2 29:06

Oh,

Speaker 29:08

woe is me. And he can't be bothered with these long letters, and he's doing it on a typewriter. He's "Oh, I can't be bothered. What should I do?

Speaker 2 29:14

Dear-"

Speaker 29:16

J, J-

Speaker 2 29:17

J. Yeah. j, J. He's just "What comes after that?" Yeah. Comma?

Speaker 29:20

Yeah. No.

Speaker 2 29:21

No. No. God

Speaker 29:21

forbid you use a comma.

Speaker 2 29:22

Never a comma.

Speaker 29:23

So he's "I'd really like to use a computer" But he's "I just don't know a lot about computers." Can they track you? So you know what he does? He sends a letter to the police, and he does it through a TV station. And he's "Can I communicate you, communicate with you via s- floppy disk safely?" And then he goes, "Be honest."

Speaker 2 29:46

No. What was he said on the phone earlier? Hotline suit

Speaker 29:49

yourself. No, suit

Speaker 2 29:50

yourself. Suit yourself. Can I Will I get caught? Suit yourself.

Speaker 29:52

Suit yourself. Suit yourself

Speaker 2 29:52

then. Suit yourself.

Speaker 29:55

No, be honest. Yeah. Could you, could we just have two seconds where we're both gonna be really honest with it, with each other. I won't tell you my identity, but you have to tell me, can you track me through a floppy disk? And

Speaker 2 30:04

they're like-

Speaker 30:05

And they're like-

Speaker 2 30:06

No.

Speaker 30:08

Yeah. So the detectives spot their golden chance, and they're like, they put a fake ad in a local classified section, and it goes, "Rex, it'll be okay." And he's "Sure thing. I'm gonna send a floppy disk." So he really does believe them, and he thinks that there's a professional trust here. Oh, my God. I don't know where he's got that impression because the police haven't told him that- at any point during this.

Speaker 2 30:30

Yeah, but Bruce put his blind faith into fucking Man Above- Yeah this whole entire time, and he's got away with it so far. He's probably just like-

Speaker 30:37

Yeah

Speaker 2 30:37

Look, not a man to a man." "I

Speaker 30:39

left the men out of it." Yeah,

Speaker 2 30:41

yeah. "I was never gonna mess with the men." "I

Speaker 30:42

wasn't gonna mess with the men, and I'm only killing some silly little women."

Speaker 2 30:45

Yeah, exactly. We're not doing that. "My main goal was women, and you don't like them either. Am I right?" What? Yeah. You think the police are just gonna be like- He's just "You get me,

Speaker 30:53

brother" "You know what I'm vibing with." Yeah. "We hate those women."

Speaker 2 30:57

Floppy disk. "I know you want the info,

Speaker 31:00

so what if I just give you it and we just pretend?" And whoever, whoever at that police station was like, "Just telling me you can use a floppy disk" is iconic. Iconic.

Speaker 2 31:08

He's just sat there sunglasses on, "But what if we just

Speaker 31:12

said-" What? Yeah?

Speaker 2 31:12

And everyone's

Speaker 31:12

No, he can't communicate safely with us." "But what if he told him he can?"

Speaker 2 31:17

"What if he thought that

Speaker 31:17

he could?" "What if he thought we could?" Because, like, how is he gonna figure out that he can't?

Speaker 2 31:24

And everyone's sat around, "But what?"

Speaker 31:25

Yeah.

Speaker 2 31:26

And then they're like, "Have you seen him spell?"

Speaker 31:28

They're spitballing. They're like he doesn't

Speaker 2 31:30

feel like someone who could figure it out." Yeah. Like- Also, they're like-

Speaker 31:33

And he obviously doesn't know anyone to ask because he's asking us.

Speaker 2 31:36

Yeah, mad. Can't you have just been like to your wife "What if I wanted to send over some files about the church to a different church? Would they be encrypted? Like, how does that work?"

Speaker 31:45

Yeah. "Do you know anything about computers?"

Speaker 2 31:47

He doesn't respect women, so he's not gonna-

Speaker 31:48

Yeah. Why don't you just do a crazy Go to a computer shop and say, "Hi, I have this floppy disk." Yeah. "But I don't know, I

Speaker 2 31:56

just-" "I'm a reverend of the church."

Speaker 31:57

Yeah. Like- "I'm just like-" Yeah.

Speaker 2 32:00

I am Scouts honor"

Speaker 32:02

Sc- Scouts honor. I'm a reverend of the church. I am

Speaker 2 32:06

not

Speaker 32:06

BTK. Could the police track me through this floppy disk?

Speaker 2 32:09

Do you know who BTK is? Yeah. If he were me. So- If I were

Speaker 32:15

him. Yeah.

Speaker 2 32:16

Comma. No. He wouldn't have It's literally "I may have come up with the most best nickname in the world for myself."

Speaker 32:24

Yeah.

Speaker 2 32:25

And I just wanna let some other people in on the joke." Yeah,

Speaker 32:28

yeah. I just like That is actually so fucking hilarious because it's so dumb.

Speaker 2 32:33

Yeah.

Speaker 32:33

But then, again, hindsight, 20/20. It is at this point, we're talking about the early 2000s people are not super techni- technological

Speaker 2 32:42

No true

Speaker 32:43

but it is so funny because, like- of course they can track you for a floppy disk.

Speaker 2 32:47

And even if they actually genuinely couldn't, why would they tell you the truth?

Speaker 32:52

Yeah. Why do you think- that they're not gonna lie to you? It'd be like- That's the funniest fucking thing someone

Speaker 2 32:58

that wants to kill you and being like, "If I give you this gun, you're not gonna kill me with it." Yeah,

Speaker 33:01

Yeah.

Speaker 2 33:02

And they're just like-

Speaker 33:03

Yeah

Speaker 2 33:04

We never

Speaker 33:04

would." Yeah. I didn't just threaten to kill you, but I wouldn't. I would not-

Speaker 2 33:08

Yeah

Speaker 33:09

ever do that to you. But also, the police didn't have to do that. They literally just went, "Rex, it'll all be okay." And he was like, "These are my guys. These are my guys, and they will not track me."

Speaker 2 33:20

Yeah.

Speaker 33:20

And they didn't even say, "We won't track you." They just said, "It'll all be okay."

Speaker 2 33:24

It'll all be okay" in the

Speaker 33:24

end. And you took that as the red light to send them a floppy disk.

Speaker 2 33:27

Honestly, it is mad how, like, how much hatred some men can have for women-

Speaker 33:32

Yeah

Speaker 2 33:33

but still will do things like that for other men, even though the men are the ones that are fucking you- Yeah

Speaker 33:39

over in that situation. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. So they say, "Rex, it'll all be okay," and then Raider believes them. So in February 2005, he mails a purple 3.5 inch floppy disk- to KAKI TV.

Speaker 2 33:55

Lol.

Speaker 33:55

He deleted the files, thinking that made it totally blank. Yeah. So also, can we just for a second-

Speaker 2 34:02

Oi.

Speaker 34:02

He didn't even use a fresh floppy disk. He used one he had stuff on and just deleted all of it. He, my man didn't even go out and buy a new floppy disk. That

Speaker 2 34:14

would've been the least sus... he's probably "I can't buy another one because now they know they're gonna... I'm gonna send them a floppy disk. They might be tracking who's buying floppy disks."

Speaker 34:21

So- "But I'll just delete what was already on there." Can you... In the 2000s, they're t- everyone's buying floppy disks. This is absolutely mad. Isn't it the only way- Yeah to transfer things at that point?

Speaker 2 34:31

This is absolutely mad.

Speaker 34:33

So funny.

Speaker 2 34:34

This is, like, why I'm not a criminal because I would be this shit.

Speaker 34:38

Yeah.

Speaker 2 34:38

And my crimes would probably be, like, I don't know, spray painting something- Yeah or trying to do something political. He's a serial killer, and he is more shit than I would be- Yeah in this situation, and I'm a massive technophobe.

Speaker 34:50

Yeah.

Speaker 2 34:51

Like-

Speaker 34:54

It's actually so embarrassing. I don't even, I don't even know how to comprehend it because it is the shittest way to get caught.

Speaker 2 35:01

Yeah.

Speaker 35:01

The shittest.

Speaker 2 35:02

Yeah.

Speaker 35:03

To be outsmarted by the police.

Speaker 2 35:05

Yeah.

Speaker 35:06

Because you've asked a dumb question. And they literally just looked you dead in the eye and went,

Speaker 2 35:12

Yeah." Imagine the post-pint after catching him.

Speaker 35:15

Oh my God.

Speaker 2 35:17

Sonny's on again.

Speaker 35:18

The way I would- He literally called retelling the stories in the pub, and I'd be like, "And I just said" Don't you think we should let him think that it's okay? And I, and then like- Why? I literally like, and I, yeah, I said, "Yeah, Rex, it'll all be okay."

Speaker 2 35:33

And some random person from a different department is "It didn't work." "That did not work. There's no way that worked." And they're just like, "No, it did."

Speaker 35:40

And everyone sat round the table going, "Surely he's not gonna fall for it. Surely. But we've gotta give it a go."

Speaker 2 35:47

Yeah. That cheers. You'd be like- Yeah "Cheers to stupid fucking men."

Speaker 35:52

I'd be getting battered that night.

Speaker 2 35:54

Yeah. Absolutely crazy.

Speaker 35:57

So it arrives, and obviously he's deleted the files. I literally can't get over the fact that he didn't even bother- to buy a new one. That's fucking If you're gonna do it, at least try and cover all your tracks.

Speaker 2 36:09

Bro will hang out at a woman's house for six hours till she falls asleep.

Speaker 36:11

He's flown by a

Speaker 2 36:13

fresh

Speaker 36:14

floppy disk. He might have just popped down to the local technological shop. What? That I no idea.

Speaker 2 36:19

Local computer store.

Speaker 36:20

Or fucking steal one. Yeah, literally. Steal You're literally a murderer. Steal a fresh floppy disk.

Speaker 2 36:28

That's actually mind-blowing.

Speaker 36:29

Yeah. Anyway, "I've got the power of God and Adam- and science on my side." He's just being like, "Hehe." So forensic analysts run the disk. In less than five minutes, they find metadata of deleted Microsoft Word documents. Yeah. It instantly shows two things, the name Dennis, and the locatio- location, Christ Lutheran Church.

Speaker 2 36:54

Oh, my actual God.

Speaker 36:56

Yeah. So the police check the church website- This- and there's Dennis

Speaker 2 37:00

Rader funny.

Speaker 37:01

Yeah. Listed as the church council president.

Speaker 2 37:05

Oh,

Speaker 37:05

for goodness sake. They see he drives a black Jeep Cherokee. Wouldn't

Speaker 2 37:07

you be like, "Someone set this man up." There's no way he's actually stupid enough to have done- Yeah do you know what I mean? Yeah. Your first thought-

Speaker 37:14

I'd be like, "I cannot be talking to BTK right now." Yeah. Because-

Speaker 2 37:18

Your

Speaker 37:18

first thought would be like- this man has been smart enough to kill this many people, and like stalk people, and make up

Speaker 2 37:22

laws- Fly under the

Speaker 37:23

radar- to get into their Yeah for three decades and kill a family of four.

Speaker 2 37:27

Yeah.

Speaker 37:27

Subdue and kill a family of four- In the middle of the day in the middle of the day, and yet he, we caught him by saying, "Yes, you can send the

Speaker 2 37:35

floppy disk." Yeah, because I wouldn't be like, "Oh, there's no way that it's a priest," or whatever he is. I know you keep saying it.

Speaker 37:39

Yeah,

Speaker 2 37:39

we keep saying. Just all these different stuff. Yeah. Like I know that, like I wouldn't doubt that. It's the fact that I'd be like, "This feels too stupid"- Yeah "to actually be this guy."

Speaker 37:50

Yeah.

Speaker 2 37:51

It feels like someone's been like, "Yeah, I'll send you a floppy disk," and then deleted some Word documents about some random person- Yeah they're trying to pin it on. Like-

Speaker 37:58

But I think they, they might have thought that because-

Speaker 2 38:00

But as in, obviously then you'd get there and be like there's ev- there's evidence." Now then they- But your first thought, you'd be like- "You can't be this dumb" "Surely not one person can be"-

Speaker 38:09

Yeah. I would. I'd be like, "No."

Speaker 2 38:11

No,

Speaker 38:12

surely not. Surely

Speaker 2 38:15

not He'd be like lads"

Speaker 38:16

Yeah. It can't be that easy He's recycled the floppy

Speaker 2 38:18

disk

Speaker 38:18

Yeah. I Literally, I'd run into the office with it in hand. Run- He fucking deleted Word documents off it. He didn't even get a new one

Speaker 2 38:26

Everyone's just up screaming.

Speaker 38:27

Yeah

Speaker 2 38:28

Just like, "What is going on?"

Speaker 38:29

Like we've just won the World Cup. Like-

Speaker 2 38:31

Yeah.

Speaker 38:32

Absolutely crazy Oh, I would be I'd be living for

Speaker 2 38:35

it I know.

Speaker 38:35

So they see that he's driving a black Jeep Cherokee, which is matching a car caught on camera dropping off some of the BTK packages. Right So they're like-

Speaker 2 38:44

That's

Speaker 38:44

him "We think we're in the right place" But to get ironclad proof, they don't wanna tip him off.

Speaker 2 38:50

Yeah

Speaker 38:50

So they get a secret wa- warrant- To test a medical tissue sample-

Speaker 2 38:57

It's

Speaker 38:58

horrible his adult daughter, Kerry Rawson, had left at a university clinic years ago. Oh my God.

Speaker 2 39:04

Oh my God.

Speaker 39:06

How mad is that? They test her DNA against the old crimes, and it's a near perfect familial match

Speaker 2 39:11

Wow. Wow. Wow

Speaker 39:13

And that's how they know that they have got the right man.

Speaker 2 39:15

Wow.

Speaker 39:16

So February 25th, 2005, they pull him over and arrest him. During the interrogation, he fully confesses. But here's the most pathetic part.

Speaker 2 39:27

Yeah

Speaker 39:27

He is genuinely furious because the detectives have lied to him about the floppy disk.

Speaker 2 39:34

That's just CBA with this man.

Speaker 39:35

He literally complains that they have broke the rules of the game. I hate him. I hate him Isn't that fucking wild?

Speaker 2 39:45

Bro can just run about taking lives-

Speaker 39:47

Yeah, and he's like- like he has some kind of right "Hold on. Hold on. It's not fair-

Speaker 2 39:51

Yeah

Speaker 39:51

that you lied to me"

Speaker 2 39:52

You guys l- actually lied to me" Yeah "You broke the trust"

Speaker 39:55

Yeah. "It's fair that I-" "Broke into peoples houses" "break into women's houses and murder them"

Speaker 2 39:59

Literally

Speaker 39:59

"but it's not fair. It's not fair that you" Hello?

Speaker 2 40:03

What?

Speaker 40:04

It's Willow's got something to say

Speaker 3 40:06

It's not fair, is

Speaker 40:07

it, Willow?

Speaker 3 40:09

It's not fair It's not fair

Speaker 40:10

So he then pleads guilty to 10 counts of murder, and since Kansas didn't have the death penalty active during his crime years, he gets 10 consecutive life sentences, minimum 175 years. Fab. How- And he's still fucking there today Good. I actually didn't look into him anymore because I thought, "Oh, maybe I should check if he's dead now" but he must not be 'Cause I didn't see anything.

Speaker 2 40:38

Yeah.

Speaker 40:39

No-

Speaker 2 40:40

He must be kinda old, right?

Speaker 40:41

He's, he is now 81 years old. Ugh. But he's still alive. Ugh. Oh, I also didn't say, but Paula, his wife, as soon as he was... Fuck me. Fast and Furious. That's

Speaker 2 40:55

my old car.

Speaker 40:56

Is it?

Speaker 2 40:56

Yeah, razzing out.

Speaker 40:58

Oh, she's lost.

Speaker 2 41:01

She should've died a death- She just got your- a long time ago.

Speaker 41:03

She just bought your car?

Speaker 2 41:04

Yeah, she bought it for £300, and I bought my new car for £300.

Speaker 41:09

Wow. She

Speaker 2 41:09

just bought it off me, and then she said to me the other day, "Some lads down at the scrapyard have said that they'll give me 300 quid whenever I'm gonna

Speaker 41:16

get my new car for this one. We've all broke even or something." And I was like, "No way." Sick.

Speaker 2 41:20

Yeah. I don't know who's giving her 300

Speaker 41:22

quid for that- 300 quid for that 'cause I was already amazed

Speaker 2 41:23

that- I got,

Speaker 41:25

I got 300 for my old one.

Speaker 2 41:26

I think the only reason why she gave us 300 quid for it was because it was literally on this drive- Yeah and all she had to do was just take the keys and drive off and it was hers. So she was like-

Speaker 41:34

Yeah, I'll take it

Speaker 2 41:35

Yeah, fuck it." And 'cause obviously I hadn't done my M- my MOT runs out in November on that car. Yeah. So she's had it, she will have had it for nearly a year. Yeah. And she wanted to get a better one but just hadn't found one yet. So it's like she's just doing her a solid. But she was just like, "It's right here."

Speaker 41:48

I did think that when I pulled up to the drive earlier and I was like, "That looks a awful lot like Amy's old car."

Speaker 2 41:53

Yeah. It's so m- I bet getting in it now, I'd feel s- it would feel so small. Yeah,

Speaker 41:57

now that you've got a monster

Speaker 2 41:58

truck. And I've got my little bag in.

Speaker 41:59

Anyway, yeah, I did also see that his wife- That after he was arrested, she files for emergency divorce. Yes. So she is literally "I am fucking out of here immediately."

Speaker 2 42:08

Also, you can so imagine that she's had suspicions about what he's been up to, but she's probably just put it down to cheating or the fact that he's got- Yes some other secret thing going on.

Speaker 42:16

Yeah.

Speaker 2 42:17

Not that he was literally-

Speaker 42:18

No o- well- Also, it must be s- If I was suspecting something of my husband, I just don't think... If I, if my mind went, "Yeah, I think he's a serial killer-"

Speaker 2 42:24

Yeah

Speaker 42:25

then I've already done something bad- yeah by marrying him. I

Speaker 2 42:26

feel like she was probably just yeah, for a while, back in the '70s or whatever, he just used to kinda disappear, and people would say he was in at Scout's but he didn't come home. Yeah. Maybe they had arguments about how he was seeing someone else. But then if he stopped for 13 years- Yeah she was probably just "Oh, whatever that is, it's dead in the water." It's good vibes.

Speaker 42:42

Oh, she's ready to go.

Speaker 2 42:43

You ready now?

Speaker 42:45

She wants to go a little pee.

Speaker 2 42:46

No wees.

Speaker 42:47

Anyway, that's BTK.

Speaker 2 42:49

Yes. We've done well. It's

Speaker 42:51

all of his nonsense. He

Speaker 2 42:52

is such a slimy slimer.

Speaker 42:53

Yeah.

Speaker 2 42:54

Little weasel.

Speaker 42:56

Why did that look like something came through the

Speaker 2 42:59

door there? I know. Literally, I was like, "Don't you come in here." Ah! Ah. Oh, Willow kill. That literally- Willow kill.

Speaker 43:03

Ugh, that was so scary.

Speaker 2 43:05

Willow kill. God, you really are no help, are you? Yeah, not at all. Little guard dog. Bark. That's so weird. Anyway, yeah. Thank you so much for listening.

Speaker 43:19

Yeah, you know the drill. Follow us @killthemoodpod on- And- Where in the fuck is that? Instagram and- Yeah, and YouTube and YouTube. And then,

Speaker 2 43:25

yeah,

Speaker 43:28

email us at killthemood.atgmail.com- Podcast Oh my God, I haven't done it in so long, I've forgotten what our email is. Our email

Speaker 2 43:35

is killthemoodpodcast@gmail.com.

Speaker 43:38

Yeah, shit.

Speaker 2 43:39

That is mad. That is so mad. We've just totally g- lost the plot. We're gonna have some dinner, and we'll see you next week. But actually, we'll see you in a minute.

Speaker 43:46

Yeah. Bye. Okay, bye