It's Only Rock n Roll with hosts Phil Blizzard & Russell Mason
"It's Only Rock and Roll" goes beyond the spotlight to reveal the fascinating stories of the unsung heroes who made rock's greatest moments possible. From groundbreaking concerts like Pink Floyd in Moscow during Glasnost to Wham performing at the Great Wall of China, this podcast captures a special time in music history through authentic, unfiltered conversations.
Co-hosts Russell Mason and Phil Blizzard bring complementary perspectives – Russell from his years touring and promoting, Phil from interviewing countless music legends throughout his broadcasting career. Together, they're creating a relaxed, nostalgic journey through an industry populated by unforgettable characters (many known only by their colorful nicknames).
Future episodes will feature tour managers, production crews, artist managers, record producers, and the legendary "liggers" (backstage gate-crashers) who defined an era. These are the people who witnessed it all – the near-disasters averted, the bizarre requests fulfilled, and the moments of brilliance that audiences never saw.
It's Only Rock n Roll with hosts Phil Blizzard & Russell Mason
Fans & Memorable Gigs - From First Bands To Legends of Rock
Ever wonder why some gigs tattoo themselves on your memory while others fade as the lights come up? We sit down with two lifelong friends and serial gig-goers to trace a fan’s journey from teenage awe at the Brighton Dome to the organised chaos of modern stadium shows. Their stories move fast: queuing for Led Zeppelin at Earls Court, discovering Rory Gallagher’s fire, and catching Deep Purple tearing up the Half Moon in Putney. Along the way, we weigh what really matters — rooms that sing, mixes that breathe, and the crowd energy that turns a setlist into a shared event.
The debate gets spicy where performance meets production. Stadiums bring scale, but do giant screens make you a spectator instead of a participant? From Oasis at Wembley to Coldplay’s LED spectacles, we unpack when visuals elevate and when they steal the show. Then a pivot to the pure: Bob Dylan’s phone-free theatre, where every phrase lands because there’s nothing else to look at. We talk queues, exits, and the odd miracle ticket, but keep coming back to sound — the tone, separation, and punch that made the Brighton Dome a revelation and Rush a byword for precision.
No fan’s tour is complete without guitar heroes. Jimmy Page for invention, Rory Gallagher for heart, Gary Moore for bite, David Gilmour for melody, Prince for the solo that still silences rooms. Thin Lizzy’s revolving door of players, Wishbone Ash’s harmonies, and the support acts that later exploded — Def Leppard under AC/DC, Bon Jovi under KISS — all feed a bigger question: why did so many bands from the 70s endure while newer acts struggle to jump from clubs to arenas? Fewer venues, different economics, and the vanishing art of earning a following onstage are part of the answer.
If you love live music — the sweat, the surge, the note that lifts a room — this conversation is a reminder of why we keep showing up. Hit follow, share it with a gig buddy, and tell us: which concert still lives rent-free in your head?
It's Only Rock and Roll is a Phil Blizzard Radio Production - for your production email philblizzardmedia@gmail.com
Welcome on board. Another exciting episode of our podcast series, and we've had some real good laughs along the way. I'm sure we're going to today. So a bit difficult. So far, we've been looking at professionals working hard behind the scenes, production managers, tour managers, a couple of uh stars on stage today. It's back to what should we say? Base. The fans. The fans who create the excitement of the gig. The artists do the shows, the fans make the atmosphere.
SPEAKER_02:We got what we got on board today, Russ. Well, um, it is a bit different because without fans, there there is no industry. Um, I wouldn't have bought my first house. Uh, so fans are very important. I know it's really obvious, but quite often they get missed in in what we're doing. But um the two guys I could think of because I'm on Facebook with them, and uh I was at school with them, and I've got um I've got Rudy Bacter and Chris Mansfield. Um Rudy I knew from secondary school onwards at the uh Stenning Grammar School in Sussex, and uh Chris I I think I knew before. I seem to remember, remind me, Chris. Um at the because you used to have the post office in the in the in Stenning, and we used to we used to make like a big camp and fire those pellet guns at each other. I think it must have been about 10 10 or whatever. Um it was a little bit early.
SPEAKER_04:We it was I I came down and just had the last year of junior school and moved down to London. Yeah, we both went up to uh Stenning Grammar together.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so but what I what I discovered, it's really funny because when you leave school, and I remember my last day at Stenning Grammar School, which I hated, um, walking across the playground uh to get picked up by my mum and uh looking back like in a movie and thinking, right, I'm now gonna do everything I wanted to do in life, and I really remember it like it was yesterday. And then, you know, obviously we went our separate ways. We've all had big lies, we're the same age, 65. Um, and you know, we've we've done a lot. But what I've discovered on Facebook with you guys is uh that you really are serial rock and roll fans. Uh and you, I mean, even so much on Thursday night you were uh watching level 42, um, which I've got a story for you later on because I I worked a bit with uh with level 42 back in the day, but um it's really good to have you on. You're probably wondering why I asked, but I think I've explained why, because you are two people that I know, and you really love music. And I've seen you know things that you've put on Facebook where you're just out at a pub enjoying inshorem enjoying a band, you know, and that's what it's all about. Um, and what I'm really interested to, you know, talk about is from the beginnings right the way through some of the bands we've got. I mean, the list of bands, Phil, is incredible. Uh, that these two guys have seen. And I'm looking forward to this. Yes, yeah. As we get older, we become a bit nostalgic. I don't know about you guys, but anyway, Phil, over to you. That's the intro. These are the two.
SPEAKER_05:Chris, we'll start with you and uh very much sort of a format going through the two of you. So, Chris, starting with you, your very first ban or very first life gig you went to. Can you recall that and tell us who it was?
SPEAKER_04:It's funny because as you get older, your memories kind of become a little bit more vague, or or that they're a bit adapted. You kind of memory changes it to shape the memories, but there are some bits that really stand out. Um, and my first ever gig was the original Genesis in 1973, which I saw at the Brighton Dome. And that one of the things that stands out about that is I ended up going on my own as well. So my first concert at 14 years old, and I was on my own because the other person could go in. Um, and that was my first experience of a really pro well, any kind of live band. And of course, then we had Peter Gabriel's the lead singer with his headsets and his headdresses and that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was just a great show, and I went out and bought the live album that reflected that concert, and I've still got the original ticket attached to that album sleep as well.
SPEAKER_05:So, what was your feeling when you walked into the venue and and saw a mass of people and then the band kicked up with uh big sound system? Lighting then perhaps wasn't quite as elaborate as it evolved into. But what was your initial recall? What's your recall on that initial experience?
SPEAKER_04:I I think it was quite scary because quite young. Uh what I was going in the same way that you get now. You know, if you go to see a band now, very often the audience ranges from sort of 14 to 65, but then I was at the bottom end of it, you know, and everyone seemed to be a lot older and knew more than I did, and I didn't know where I was going, had to be shown to miss seat and that kind of thing, you know. Yeah, but the thing that always has stood out for me, and and I think this is the the one thing that Rudy and myself have slightly differently. I'm I've always been into the tonal, the sound of the music, and the detail of that. And of course, being at the dome, which I didn't realise at the time, the sound quality at the dome is just exceptional. It's like a mini Albert Hall. Yeah, so I remember the quality of sitting back at the music and just going, Wow, this is just a great experience, you know.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah. And what was your experience with Genesis before that? Were you a fan of theirs? Were you listening to them on the radio?
SPEAKER_04:Or um do you know what that's that's interesting? I I don't remember much. I think I'd heard one or two tracks, but I knew that they were meant to be a really good band. And a couple of us said, Oh, yeah, let's let's let's go and see this great rock band. I didn't really know what to expect, to be honest with you.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, so you went for the experience rather than the uh fan of the band. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:What about you, Rudy? Um, well, the first um I saw was um 1974 was Rory Gallagher, and that was at the dome. That was with Chris and um um uh Leslie Collins and Mark Alder from school, you might remember. We all went down there. Chris, I think we caught a bus down there, and Chris's dad used to pick us up and get us home. But yeah, yeah, and but you mean I'd never really experienced anything like that before, sort of going in, you've been to sort of little thing, but my family didn't really go out to shows or anything like that. Anyone did that, so it was all quite intimidating. You know, it's all these great big hairy ass blokes and all that, you know what I mean? From from that, you know, and you couldn't get it. I mean, I was 14, so yeah, I mean, I wasn't even a very big 14, so yeah, I mean there's no chance of getting a drink of the bar or anything like that. So yeah, it was you was just taking it all in, you know. You you bought your program, and you I remember buying a silk scarf and all that, which is mostly still the you know, like the old football scarves that used to be silk and a Rory Captain done in um the old Irish Green with the um so Rudy, Rudy, that's a blast.
SPEAKER_02:Leslie Collins. I think we were always chasing the same girls, you and me. Um anyway, uh move it moving on because uh my missus probably wouldn't want to hear about all that, but any anyway, um so you so you that that was your first one, Rory Gallagher. Was um Jerry McElvoy the bass player?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, Jerry McAlvoy was my work with Jerry.
SPEAKER_02:I did some gigs with his own band um around Essex, like later on, you know. Yeah, that that was uh but Rory Gallagher used to come on with his Vox AC 30, put it on a chair and go for it. You'd never see that now, would you? No, no, no.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, Rory was a great showman and he would always make sure the show happened. There was one gig he went to where I think Jerry McAvoy and the rest of the band had been held up, they were traveling separately. So Rory turned up, the audience was there waiting for him to come on the stage, and he didn't have a band. And he got he called into the audience if anybody could play the piano to his songs, and there was somebody from the audience that could play his set list basically, and they put on a whole gig. It was just him and a piano and a pianist from the audience, an amazing gig. Sounds like Stan Urban was there, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_05:Stan who had on our podcast a few weeks ago, he'd pop up weddings and take over on the piano. Yeah, so that that very first show for you. What about the the sonic? The the volume, yeah, someone like Rory Gallagher's.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but I'd never heard anything as loud as that before. Yeah, I mean, from the very first chord I was hooked, that was it. Yeah, I mean, the first I think he opened up with messing with the kid as well as songs. And from from that moment I was hooked, and it was like a you mean there was no fancy, you mean it's just lights and that. There was no real showman apart from his showmanship of his playing, you know. I mean, there was no gimmicks, it was just straight ahead sort of um blues rock, you know. And I loved it, I lapped it up, lapped it up. What about you, Phil?
SPEAKER_02:What was your first yeah?
SPEAKER_05:Let me set the scene. I grew up in Western Super May, you know, a bit of a quiet seaside town, apart from when the mods and rockers appeared later on in life and fought 40s over on the seafront, bank holiday. We had the winter guns, that was our main venue. So you can expect winter guns is going to be sort of sedate tea afternoon tea parties and things like that, tea dances. But occasionally a venue would be used for a show, an independent uh producer would come in or promoter, rest of it was council, and it was um a blues band, Bloodwind Pig. Do you remember them? Yeah, uh, some of the guys went on to form Jeff Rotoll or work with Jeff Rotal. So and they were there supporting Curved Air. So I saw my first band I saw was Bloodwind Pig, and then Curved Air Curved Air. Well, you know, the violinist, what's her name? Christina um the lead singer.
SPEAKER_00:Sonia Christina, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_05:Sonia Christina, that's it. Yeah, you see memories. Rudy's a pop god knows them. So yeah, there we were, as someone said, Harry Bikers there for the blues band Bloodwind Pig, and uh I didn't know who they were, it was just mate saying, Let's go along. You know, there's this rock show, rock band on at Winter Gardens, which was in that in shape, it was it was a dome, perhaps acoustically not as good as the Albert Hall or or Brighton uh dome, but uh yeah, and it was like a a terrace going around, and people on a dance floor on the stage sat up with massive amount of amplification of speakers, so that was an ear-blasting experience. The excitement of it was uh too much, and then curved air came on with Sonny Christina uh leaping around with the violin. That was uh treat for the eyes, she was. So that's my my first experience, yeah. Russell, what about you?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, my mine was a little later than you guys. Uh I got into it a bit later. I was really influenced by my older brother, you know, listening to King Crimson and the the first brilliant album. So I you know, I was into music, but I didn't actually go to my first proper gig um until I went to in 1977 was Bad Company at Earl's Court. Um and I was just mesmerized when if you remember the lineup, Simon Kirk, Rick Mick Ralphs, uh Paul Rogers, and Boz Burrell on bass. And I uh during Bad Company, the song Bad Company, I was just mesmerized by the you know, the scale down on the bass. And I that just used to go over my head. But uh I've got a story linked to that where uh later on when I so I was 17 then later on when I was about 20, 21, as a laugh, I got into a band, and I totally can't play any musical instruments, so I had to be the singer, awful singer. And uh anyway, I I I was the lead singer in this band, One Burning Heart, and we did gigs around Kent and London and stuff like that. And uh I was working at the time, I don't know if you from some of the previous podcasts, I was working for a guy called John Henry who had rehearsal studios, so we used to get all the all the bands come in, you know, and all that stuff. And one day we had a little uh demo studio there, recording studio, a little demo recording studio, and bands would come in and do stuff. And one day, Mick Rouse and Simon Kirk came in, and uh Stuart, the cheeky little, he was quite a young guy, but he was a brilliant, he was a brilliant engineer. Um, he said, Oh, you've got uh I used to go in and look through the glass and see who was there. And it was Mick Rouse and Simon Kirk. And uh anyway, he he he pressed a button and on the speaker and he said, Hey guys, he said, um my mate Russ, he's a singer in a band. I was like, no. And and and you know what they said, this is an absolute true story. They said, come on, let's, let's, let's give it so I was cack in my pants. So I went in with Simon Kirk on drums and Mick Rouse on, and they've been used to Paul Rogers, you know. And and and I mean, I I got away with it, or they were very gracious, probably the latter. But yeah, so that and and I remember saying to Simon Kirk, I said, you know what? You were the first band I ever saw. And uh, and he's uh he said, Where was that? I said, Well, it was Earl's Court this day. I said, and I remember when you did your drum solo, when he lifted up your hands, you had all these bandages, and you were so all the I said, Oh, I remember that gig. He said, he said, that afternoon I was cleaning my hoover out, and my stupid missus, she switched it on, and I I cut all my hands up.
SPEAKER_05:So, anyway, I died. What and don't escape this one. What did you actually sing?
SPEAKER_01:I can't remember. Come on, make it out as a word. I really can't remember.
SPEAKER_04:Uh yeah, but that was company of one of the the few bands that I regret never having seen. Rudy Dissy. Yeah, I never got to see.
SPEAKER_00:So I I went to see them when they um got back together. Bos Burrow was no longer there. They had the um, I think they had another guitarist that Mick Ross was there. I think they had another guitarist who used to be in Heart helped them along. I'm pretty pretty sure I might be wrong there, but um Paul Rogers' voice was a revelation to me. Yeah, I mean, he must have been well in his 60s, and it just sounded so pure, and you I mean it's fantastic. Yeah, I mean, it I was not I've bold over it's why I'd say it's one of the gigs where you know when you go, I didn't really have high expectation anymore of it. Yeah, I mean, I thought they would just be going through, but his voice was something else, yeah. I mean, and that is at Wembley where the sound is not always great at Wembley, but I remember his voice and remember thinking L. Wembley Arena, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, a great band, I love bad company. Um, this is the point, Phil, where I've totally lost my way, and you have to bring us back on.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, it's fine. I was gonna say, I mean, we you know I didn't give away my age when I first thought when I saw my first band. You said you were 17. I was a lot older, I was about 35 or something. I was a late starter. No, not quite, but parents, parents. Um starting with you, Chris. What do your parents think when you started sneaking out to go and see hairy rock and roll bands and rock bands?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that's interesting. They that because we lived in Stenning, yeah, there there were no buses after about 10 o'clock, and if even if they were, they were unreliable. So my dad was really, really good, and he would always uh offer. We never had to beat him into submission, he would always offer to come and bring us home so we were safe and that kind of thing, you know. So they were always very protective from that point of view. Having said that, they weren't really particularly supportive of the type of music. And I remember the the very the very first album I actually bought was Alice Cooper, School's Out.
SPEAKER_06:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And I and I remember I I had to hide it because I know they were to they were totally anti-Addis Cooper and you know, snakes and babies with makeup and all that kind of stuff, you know. So I had to write the album, and you talk about hiding in plain sight. I literally stuck it in my dad's record collection. No, that he'd he'd never find it there. And that was my first album, Alice Cooper. So they weren't particularly supportive of the Kind of bands necessarily, but they would always make sure we got to and from the concerts in one piece. Yeah, what about you, really?
SPEAKER_00:Um, my um my mum, I had a fairly easy sort of she she didn't mind me going with Chris because she quite liked Chris. I thought he's a sort of upstanding sort of person, and and as we got a lift home, I don't think she really knew and understood you. I mean, what was uh what was going on? She like she always gave me a lot of trust. I was the oldest uh in there, so I've got a lot of trust, and she was a bit more protective when my brother started coming with us, you know. I mean, my younger brother, which is only 18 months younger than I, but no, she she was she was okay with it, there was no problem at all. You know what I mean? I don't think she really knew because she'd never been to anything like that. You know what I mean? My one of my aunties who part of the reason I got into me is um she grew up with the Beatles and all that, so she'd come through with the Beatles and stuff like that. So she she was quite supportive and sort of um okay, yeah, they they're no problem.
SPEAKER_02:So that that Rudy that leads on quite nicely to what I wanted to ask you guys actually, because obviously at some stage you sort of linked up as a bit of a team. It's like I like this music because it is a certain genre that you're into. Because personally, I'm very grateful. I I actually like a whole range of music. I even go to my local jazz club here, you know, and I I I love it, you know, anything except country and western. I'm sorry for the country and western. Um you know, when when did this uh you know, sort of I I don't really want to call it bromance, but I will. When did that sort of start where you thought, yeah, you know, it must have been in your teens at school, no?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. For me, when we was in the same form at the third year, and um Chris was gone, we'd be talking about music. He was going to Genesis, he was going to Genesis, and he had to spare a ticket, but start someone else was going with him. It was Leslie Collins. Oh she she couldn't make it, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, you were chasing her as well. I can't believe that it was Susan Mosey. And Leslie Collins were inseparable, weren't they? It was Leslie's intro music, she was gonna be going, and then she couldn't have yeah, yeah. But um, yeah, I mean we we used to play football together as well. Yeah, so that was kind of I think the football really was the kind of start of the on the playground with a tennis ball. Well, no, we both play for the football team at standing as well, didn't we?
SPEAKER_00:Football team, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And so um, I think we would just you know, as you do, you're chatting about commonalities, things you both like, and music was one of those things, and yeah, off we went.
SPEAKER_00:But what was the before um sorry, Russ. What was the first Chris? Before I met Chris, I knew um how I got into music with uh um a couple of lads who are older guys who are a couple of years older than me. Um they lived in Beding, guy called um Pete Bartley and Pete who's he's now front of house for the pretenders. He does he he does a lot. I don't know if you've bumped into him or any at any time, but he he he pursued a music, um uh uh a career in music. Yeah, I mean I think he went around the 80s trying to trying to make it in the music industry and ended up sort of producing, I think he produced a therapy album at some point, you know what I mean? But he got me into music, and we'd be into David, he was into David Bowie and thing, and that was when I got into things like Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath and all that. And you know what I mean? I remember hearing um Led Zeppelin 4 for the first time, he'd just got this. We I'd just had like a little dance like mono record player, and he had bought this stereo, this um, I forget what makeup, but it was a proper stereo, and the moment he put on Led Z 4 and Black Dog come on, hey hey mum, yeah, fantastic. Stereo separation and things, yeah. But he when we went up into grammar school, when I got to the third year, he had left. He was because he was two years above, so I kind of lost contact with him, and I find a kind of discovered Chris to sort of um with with the same musical interest, but they were the ones who got me into that sort of music in in the beginning, or I started listening with, you know.
SPEAKER_04:And my dad, my dad had a really decent stereo system, wasn't it? So he used to sort of turn up in my place and just listen to music on a decent system and that, and we just got into music that way then.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so you put the pellet guns away and yeah, yeah, guns went away.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So um uh there is there is one thing I just wanted to ask you, actually. So uh there's two questions, actually. I've got the first one is um, what was the first gig you actually went to together?
SPEAKER_00:That was Rory Gallagher. Rory Gallagher, yeah, it would have been Rory Gallagher.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, like you said, okay. That um, but the the other thing which uh my my sister and brother-in-law, my older sister and brother-in-law, they're sort of serial gig goes. They're gonna see Bob Dylan, I think he's coming soon as well. But they they go all the time. And a couple of years ago, um, quite a few years ago, um, have you they experienced this, and I wondered whether you have. Have you seen a support band that went on to be famous? You know, they were nothing when you saw them and you thought, oh, they're a bit of all right. Because my sister, she was telling me the other day, she's saying, Oh, um, we we watched uh uh in Brighton Talking Heads back in the day, and supporting them was dire straits. And they thought, oh, they're they're a bit of all right, and they you know went on to be quite famous.
SPEAKER_04:I've the only band I can think of that I actually went out and bought an album of was Heavy Metal Kids and they were supporting Black Sabbath, yeah. So that but they didn't really go on to be massive, but they were pretty big, and then of course the lead singer Gary um oh god, where did he go? Gary Holton.
SPEAKER_00:It was in a Vidasane pen. Ended up on as an actor on a vape. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, I've seen several that have gone on. Um, I saw ACDC and Def Leppard were supporting them. That is in '79. That was one of the last gigs that the last tour that Bon Scott done with them. And that I great tickets for that and all. We were right down the front with um thing. The story about that. Angus, you know, like Angus is all over the stage, his guitar strap come off, and he's there and he's roadie, and he's down there doing what he's doing up coming most of the and he's nodding his head, and his legs are going, and he's getting behind him trying to get his guitar strap done up, and the the sweat is absolutely pouring off him, and then suddenly, when he got it done up, he touched it and it's gone and he's gone all over the place. He's he's over the other side of the stage. But I've never ever seen some sweat come off anybody so much, it was just going everywhere, you know. And that's when they also in them days. Bon Scott used to get him when they done the the walk around, he used to come through the crowd. Yeah, I mean, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But do you remember um because I work with a band, um, a band called Rose Tattoo. Oh, yeah, great band. Supported Australian band who supported um uh ACDC. I didn't do that bit, I did some other gigs with them. Um, but they they went on to support ACDC on one of their tours. But Angry Anderson was the lead singer, and I don't know if you ever saw them live, but at the end of their set, he used to strangle himself with uh with a cord and pass out, and the roadies used to carry him off.
SPEAKER_00:I never see them live. I did crazy because he ended up having a ballad, didn't he? As a hit, they used to play quite uh hard rock and roll, and he done he'd done the ballad for neighbours, didn't he? For Charlene's wedding or something stupid on the thing. And he had this hit, his biggest hit was a ballad, was an actual toppy ballad. Yeah, but they were they were great. Yeah, the other great support band I seen who uh thing I saw Bon Jovi when they were coming out. They were they were on tour with KISS and that was a strange one at all because Kiss were on in Brighton, and just me and my brother, it is like just a Sunday afternoon. Kiss are on in Brighton, there's still tickets available. Let's let's go down. And we went down and we saw Bon Jovi. I mean that they were the better, they were a good band, they were even good then. I mean, um, yeah, and we and I'll see them several times after. Yeah, I mean, we're not went on to see them several times after.
SPEAKER_04:I was talking crimson supporting wishbone ash. That was wow.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, we we've we've we've uh in some of the other podcasts we're mentioning Wishbone Ash, and um uh to uh we were also mentioning uh Bon Jovi as well because the band I used to manage support supported Bon Jovi.
SPEAKER_04:So but uh in one of their formats still play at the rope tackle in Shoreham.
SPEAKER_00:Oh really? Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Steve Upton, the drummer. No, no, he's gone. It's Andy Pell, yeah, the guitarist. And yeah, there's a sort of they split the it was quite a bad split when they done, and they they formed two bands, and I think they argued over the name for a long time. I think Andy Pell got the name. Um Martin Turner, who's the singer, he actually um he actually tores and all, and I think he tore uh an evening with Wishbone Ash, I think he has to call it or something now. Martin Turner's it used to be Martin Turner's Wishbone Ash. Wishbone Ash, I think they still still make albums. The the Andy Pell version is still they still make in music.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah. Um I've been racking my brain regarding support acts I've seen, but uh the clearest I got to that is a band we had in West of Superman used to do the pubs called Fumble. They were rock and roll, they used to dress up the whole lot, and they turned up to be Bowie's warm-up band on when he was on tour. And I think one of the guitarists from Fumble, Les somebody, Les Hart Henley went on to become his uh touring guitarist for a while, Bowie. So that's that's the nearest I've got to a uh a support band getting onto into the big times.
SPEAKER_02:Um I have to ask you guys, uh, with all this list, and we'll go through the list at one point because it is quite impressive. Have you got it in front of you, Phil? Obviously, from a fan's perspective, um, did you ever you know get to actually meet or bump into any of your heroes, or have you got any stories where that where that happened, or or didn't that really happen? You just uh enjoyed going to watch these guys. Start with Chris, eh?
SPEAKER_04:Not really. I think the the nearest I got uh would have been like Gary Moore. Um he he we randomly bumped into him sort of thing, playing at the half brick pub in Worthing. Um we went to see a guy they called Buddy Whittington, who was a Canadian guitarist, I believe, blues guitarist. Um and it's a very small kind of venue, and you're you're only sort of three or four feet from the from the artist on the stage. And there was sort of this bit of kerfuffle going on behind the speaker systems that when there was a break, and then he just introduced Gary Moore. Gary Moore would come walking in through the door at the back and uh set himself up, and and you sort of stood there with Gary Moore three or four feet in front of you, goes, This is where did that come from?
SPEAKER_00:I think we did have a nod across the bar, even's across the bar, the other side of the bar. I said, Gary, you know, hello as near as we got.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, Gary is actually quite a shy guy. Um, I when I was working at John Henry's, um, this place, I got a call, I got asked into the office, and he said, Can you go and uh pick up Gary Moore? He's in he's in his house, in his uh just take my estate car, he's he's got an app and he's doing this studio thing. So um I went and picked him up and he he's he's I got the impression he's really shy. And uh as it turned out, in the end, um even though we never spoke a word in the car all the way to the studio, um, and then I just basically I was a babysitter in this studio, and he was doing a gig with um he was doing a a session with Ian Pace, the drummer of Deep Purple, and um I'd set up Ian Pace uh kit, which was very complex. I'll talk about that in a minute, but um anyway, Gary never said a word, but then they did some he did start to do some rehearsals for a gig and um he actually asked for me, which was strange because I I as in one of the previous podcasts I mentioned, I was one of the worst guitar tech. Well, Steve Martin and I were were were having a competition who was actually the worst guitar tech. Um, and I I'm I can assure you I was. Um, and uh but I think he got quite I never worked with him after that because during the rehearsal he was so loud that I used to wear tractor earmuffs. So I'd be rolling up cables and tidy stuff up, and I'd be walking around with these big tractor earmuffs on, and I think he got quite offended, but he was so so loud, it was incredible. But what a guitarist!
SPEAKER_00:Oh, brilliant!
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and very shy, very quiet guy, you know, even though apparently that that scar that he had it was was some fight he got into, but it didn't seem lighten his character because what I knew about him, he was really quiet, but um, yeah, that that was my experience with Gary Moore. But what a guitarist!
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, incredible.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I've I've um you mean I I've never really spoken to him in I I had a chat with um Martin Turner outside of um the Brighton Centre there. He he was he was supporting your Ri Heap, uh who uh, but it wasn't actually in the Brighton Centre, it was in the East Wing. They got a little side room. We thought it was in the Brighton Center when we turned up for the gig. We went to the Brighton Centre the front, but it's bloody cancelled, whatever. So we well, no, no, it's round the back and we went back. And during the interval, he was in there, we were chatting to him. He he was like, Because he comes from Devon, so he had he kind of had that sort of West Country sort of draw a little bit, you know. I mean, it's quite surprised. It wasn't how I expected him to sound. And um, yeah, he was chatting, he was on about we he was talking about um redoing Argos, the album, re-recording it, which was quite the fad there in that time. So he'd have he would get some some bits off of that. But yeah, he he was quite chatty. He was sitting outside having a smoke.
SPEAKER_02:But um who who who was the talking about Uriah Heap? Who was the bass player for a Uriah Heap? Um, well, they had several.
SPEAKER_00:It's Gary Fade, Trevor Boulder was there Trevor Boulder. He played that gig. He played that because I remember having a conversation with you, Russ, on Facebook, and you said I used to because he used to call him sideburns or something. It's curtains. No, no, they used to call him curtains because he had that, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:But he he replaced Gary Thane, who infamously electrocuted himself.
SPEAKER_00:He was several, he was several down the road from Gary Fain.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, Gary Thane was the original bass player, and he yeah, he shocked himself on stage.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Oh gosh, yeah. Yeah, Gary Fain, yeah. He died, I think he died a heroin overdose actually, Gary Fain. And then um, yeah, that that John Wetton played with them after that, yeah. And then uh Trevor Boulder, but I I I tell you, remember the gig because you mean we kind of me and my brother were there, and we kind of inherent your your eye heap had been going maybe eight or nine years before we even got into them. So we would have been 15. So you mean there was a lot older fans there, and they had one stage where they tried to get all the um they said, Oh, we we just done a gig and we get all the girls up on stage. We get all the girls up on stage, and they said in Venezuela we had 20 up here as a record, and I was looking around and it was all in there's people with zimmerphones and all the text. I'm thinking it's gonna be a long number if they're gonna get them all up on stage before. And it was like because it was standing, there was lots of people around the edge, yeah. I mean, and it was actually it was the first time where I went to a gig, and you kind of realised actually, I'm not that yeah. I mean, we're getting on a bit now, you know.
SPEAKER_04:Wasn't it you're on did we see him at Wembley and you won the tickets?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, we saw him. Yeah, I won the tickets for Wembley.
SPEAKER_04:We're almost front.
SPEAKER_00:Out of sounds, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I won two tickets.
SPEAKER_04:Going back to uh people you've I've suddenly remembered there was uh I did have I did meet Kenny Jones, the Who Drummer, yeah, and I think I'll probably try to bury that in my memory because it was only two or three years ago. He was uh a a guest of honour at an inventor The Grand in Brighton. And I went over and to introduce myself. I'd say he's ever so small, very, very short. And it was a classic example of how to make a complete twat of yourself. So I've gone over and introduced myself and chatted, he said, been a fan of the Who for years, done, and all this kind of stuff. I said, All right, he said, Did you ever see me play? And I said, Yeah, I I saw the Who and you were playing at Hyde Park, a big old concert there. You did quadriphilia right away, and he listened to me waxing lyrical about this amazing concert at Hyde Park. He said, Yeah, that was Zack Starkey.
SPEAKER_07:Oh no, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Oh dear swallow me up, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Oops.
SPEAKER_00:I was working on a job recently actually where that where where that you couldn't park on site, and they rented um Kenny Jones, he's got a polo club out near um US thing. He was trying to, I think they were trying to sell it, but he had this polo club and they used to allow a park. And I see him a couple of times there messing around on a on a little machine digging up bowls and all that and repairing the repairing the road on his polo club, and he's heavily into polo.
SPEAKER_02:I I don't know whether you I don't know whether you heard the first podcast we did with Jake Duncan and Steve Martin, but Jake Duncan, 55 years as a tour manager, work with everybody. Um and he was saying, I remember he called me once and I was chatting to him, or I called him, I can't remember, and uh he said, uh just uh I just finished the Who and it was not not long ago. I mean it was it was near the end of his career when the WHO sort of reformed and and he said he said oh he said what a relief he said to work with a band who are young uh who are older than me. Yeah, I mean he's he's he's not he's not gigging anymore, but um uh yeah that that was a good one.
SPEAKER_04:Um I'll talk about you the rest of you guys, but I find it really weird because as as individuals we don't feel we're getting any older, do we? No, it's kind of weird watching these people that were our kind of heroes, and they were very young. When we first saw Zeppelin, they were only sort of early 20s. We first saw Def Leopard, they're in their late teens, you know. And to sit here now and see the age they are, it's almost like they've grown up and got older than we. You're watching all these old farts going on stage, you go, we're the same age, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, oh yeah, but you um, I mean, my my my son always tells me that I've got the mental age of 15, which I'll accept, I'll get that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's all right. Um yeah, we'll accept that. But you mentioned one band there, which I really have to intervene on. Um, you both did you both see Led Zeppelin together? Yeah, yeah, twice. Yeah, tell us about that because that's that's iconic, you guys watching that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, this is one of those conversations that this conversation kind of comes up routinely quite regularly because the memories you've got of it, they they've never left us, really. Um, the first one was '75, uh, Olds Court, when they came back to the UK and they did five nights, I think, at Oldscourt. And one of the things that stands out for me is that we we stood there for hours and hours and hours trying to queue up for tickets. And this was when Virgin Records was the shop on the corner of Queen's Road and North Street in Brighton, which is now and we didn't get tickets. But just as we were getting to the doors, they'd sold out. Um and cut the long story short, very, very disappointed. We were lucky to buy a couple of tickets off a mate of ours, um, Andy Maynard, and he had two other tickets, which he were happy to sell to us for five times the face value. And we just snapped it up. We didn't but the price the price of the ticket face value was one pound in like and the thing about those tickets were they actually had restricted. I still got the ticket on my file, probably show it up on the screen here. Um, it had restricted view. And we thought, what the hell? We we're gonna be at Old School, we're gonna see Led Zeppelin. Brilliant, we paid five quid for each ticket, and we tipped up at Olds Court and we're looking for this restricted view, thinking we're gonna be behind a pillar, and we found the two seats in the block where we thought we were, and there was a pillar there, but we thought, oh what the hell? We're still here, it's great. We we can still see the stage, it'll be alright, and we're here for the sound anyway, you know. And then these two guys come wandering over us and told us we were sitting in the wrong seats. So we swapped seats, went back and found the ones we're meant to be in, no restriction whatsoever. Brilliant. Oh, great, excellent.
SPEAKER_02:So, what about what about that? What about the band though? I mean, um John Bonham was there.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, they opened up with rock and roll.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's pretty much the set that they played on that album, yeah. And that that's the first time I think when they started using video screens. I don't think video screens have been used too much before then. They had the video screens up there, and I I remember sort of going into, I mean, I would have been what 14, 15 still then, going in and Earl's court scene absolutely huge, massive. I mean, there's massive people going. I mean, the it it was not a great venue, I don't think, for sound, but it means sounded um, I mean, to us, it was brilliant, you know. I mean, for the yeah, the other memory I got of you mean the actual memory of getting the tickets I I saw are a little bit different to Chris because I remember the two guys once we'd walked away from the ticket office, we was walking back towards Churchill Square, and these two guys come shouting, shouting, shouting up the road. You know what I mean? One had a scar on his face, what's going on here? Do you know what I mean? They're not and um they they come up and thought I was gonna be a right, you know what I mean? And they said, Oh, do you want to buy tickets? And they Chris and his mate had the money. I I you mean they they they paid for the tickets, and luckily Chris's mate got another ticket, so I ended up with um his ticket to actually go because I I wouldn't have actually been going, but yeah, it was um really it was a bit of a memory of that is the night that we went there, you mean the show, yeah. I mean, I think it was like almost like a 30-minute drum solo, it seemed very elongive. I'm not quite sure that I could sit through it, it was overindulgent. It would have been nowadays, I would see it as a little bit overindulgent, the solos and whatever. Yeah, I mean it's like a 30-minute drum solo, and the keyboard solo was they were it's all very long, it was about two and a half, three hours long. The show, no support band. No, I remember Kid Jensen introduced them at the start and all and and all that, but afterwards, when we were getting out, the next day was the England-Scotland football match. So there was loads of Scottish and the tube were going on strike at midnight because the time before when Scotland played, so they pushed somebody on the track, so everybody was trying to get back to the station, and it was the night. And of course, you get to the station, it's all these Scottish football fans walking around. Um, you mean there was ambulances at the tube station bringing people out? It was it was chaos, yeah. I mean, you know what it's like in the 70s with the with the with the football.
SPEAKER_04:And the tubes were they were absolutely round with people either coming back from old school with the Led Zeppelin t-shirts and or or Scottish football fans, it's just bonkers, brilliant mental.
SPEAKER_05:And we've mayhem with mayhem with the tubes, and no doubt Led Zeppelin got the blame for all that, I suppose.
SPEAKER_00:Well, they had a they they had the they had what they called the the Zeppelin Express supposed to be running. I think they've actually think they actually run tubes in, especially for it. I think I think they've never quite done anything quite as big as that before with so many shows, you know. I mean, all the time in there, yeah. Um I think yeah, we were the Friday night, I think it started on the Tuesday night, we're right through, didn't it? To bring five nights.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I was watching just a couple of weeks ago on a flight, um, the movie Becoming Led Zeppelin. What is a movie? That is superb, absolutely superb. Yeah, yeah, it's really, really good from uh early days in the Midlands right through. Yeah, fantastic.
SPEAKER_02:Um what what about um I mean now that's sort of at the beginning, but going right the way through now, I did both of you go to Oasis recently?
SPEAKER_04:No, no, no, that was just me. My I'm very fortunate. My daughter Christ, she's now 35, for heaven's sake. Um, so she worked for Noel Gallagher's record label, Ignition Records. Oh wow, um so through there I think she gets certain benefits and what have you, but six of us managed to get up to um to Wembley. The six of us managed to get up there and saw them.
SPEAKER_02:Um my serious question is um serious, famia Russell. No was all the hype justified.
SPEAKER_04:Do you know what? It it's it's really interesting because Oasis currently and what they've done is very, very good, very high level, very good quality. They've been around for a number of years. The big hype about the getting back together again, and the concerts were all brilliant, the playlist was brilliant. And people have asked me that, you know, oh, it must have been fantastic. And there's always a part of me that says, Yeah, but I've seen Led Zeppelin twice. Do you know what I mean? So for for most people, that would be an amazing thing. For me, it wasn't quite so much, yeah, because it was just another big band of all the huge list of bands we've seen. Um, and if anything, I felt being a bit more into as I said earlier, the like the tonal qualities of it. Richard Ashcroft, who was uh support, yeah, yeah, did fundamentally uh an hour's greatest hit to the verve, the sound quality was better. Yeah, and oasis always liked to have that bit of extra distortion. So towards the end of the gig, it was it was starting to hurt. You're going back to your tractor ear defenders. I could have done with a pair of earplugs. So the enjoy the enjoyment of it overall was it yeah, it was a great experience, but I've been to better gigs. What was the audience like? What was the audience's uh reaction? Oh, yeah, they're absolutely lovely. The interesting thing was, and and we also this they've they've done an amazing thing because having teamed up with the Adidas three stripes bit. Oh right. I've never seen so many people at one concert wearing so much matching merchandise. They've done an amazing job on the merchandise. Everyone had t-shirts with three stripes on it, you know. Um the the band with this could I don't know where you saw the the the the link with the branding, so Adidas have got their own brand, and this is the brand with three stripes. So Oasis changed that to be in the band with three stripes, very simple very good, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:But continuing with the branding, brilliant. So sounds to me very, very commercialised in terms of the branding aspects. So it was, yeah, not in the absence of a pure rock and roll band who are sort of anti-establishments and uh rebels to the for the cause, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Very much that, and of course, they they they also uh did a big tribute to Ricky Hatton because he was a great city fan, as is Gallagher, so they did a big old tribute to Ricky Hatton as well. So they obviously got that kind of emotional tie as well. I mean, yeah, yeah. I mean, the yeah, they they were a brilliant band, there's no taking that away. Yeah, but then when you sort of join that into the huge long list that we created, the bands we've seen, another good one, you know.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, another good band, just another good band, nothing more. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, another another good band. Sorry, Phil. I I I just I there's so many bands on their list I want to ask them about. Um, I mean, yes, one of my I I love that yes album. Well, when when did you see yes?
SPEAKER_04:Um I didn't, right? Let's just not even talk about yes. That that is my greatest regret for music. I didn't get to see him when I had a ticket. Um so stupid.
SPEAKER_00:I went to um it was 1977. I think 1977 it is the go in for the one tour. Um, they're just promoting that album. I think Rick Wakeman was still there. Rick Wakeman was there, and um Alan White. Um, yeah, it was a fantastic Donovan. Oh, there's another one. Donovan was the support act for for for he he was more nostalgic rather than up and coming. He would be in the he was the support from yeah, that was that was again that was a fantastic light show, and they used um the the um pictures and the screens very well. Yeah, great, it was a great show, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:You know, when that you know when they're the yes thing is uh again memory suddenly recovering. I have actually met Rick Waiteman, and that that was a really weird thing. That was through a a work thing, a few of us in a bar after a particular event we we'd been to, and we were just chatting about things that we enjoyed doing, and music came up. And one guy says to me, So, you know, um, which you have great bands, and I was talking about the various bands, including Yes. And he said, What's special about yes? I said, Well, obviously, you know, the vocals of John Anderson, the guitaring Steve Howe, Rick Waiteman. I mean, he's a god of keyboards, and this guy was waxing lyrical about Rick Waiteman, and he said to me, Um, yeah, would you like to meet him one day? I said, Well, yeah, I'd love to have a chat with Rick Waitman, it'd be awesome. He said, Uh no, really, would you like to meet him? Well, yeah, he said that's he's my next neighbour.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_04:Uh and he arranged for me to meet up with Rick Waiteman at a gig he did when he was doing his um an intimate evening with Rick Waiteman, and he was just doing gigs, just him and the piano, and he was playing at um Buxton in Derbyshire. Uh there and he arranged us to meet and have a chat afterwards. So that was really good. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:John Anderson from Yes, I was working for a radio station in Vienna, government English language radio station. And uh we used to have guests coming in for the show, arranged by the producer, and I walked into the studio at quarter to seven for the show starting at seven. I said, Oh, we got lined up today. Um, we've got blah blah blah. We've got Anderson and Squire coming in. I went, um, well, what what are they? Uh they you know sound like uh a legal team. And this producer, I don't know. So what's their full name? Oh, Chris Squire, John Anderson. I went, I fell off my chair. They didn't even know, and uh they were just doing a tour of radio stations to promote uh I don't know, I suppose it was a not a yeah, it was a double album. They weren't doing a tour, but they were doing a record promotion tour.
SPEAKER_02:But you know, they they they um uh during my time at John Henry's in the rehearsal studio, and loads of bands used to come in and go. Um uh yes, sort of morphed uh into they split up, I guess, and they morphed into uh a band called Cinema with uh with a guy called Trevor Rabin, who's a good songwriter.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And they they were rehearsing there at cinema and a bit of history, I guess, a bit of rock history, which I just thought about. Um I remember I was working there, and all of a sudden there was a big hush hush. They were like, Don't tell anyone, but John Anderson singing in the in the in rehearsal studio one, and uh there's a rumour that yes, they're gonna get back together again. And then all of a sudden um uh Trevor Horn turns up, and of course, the next that that was their their new uh style, yes, and and uh they went into Abbey Road Studios and Trevor. I remember I got feedback because we used to take gear and supply these guys, and and um is it Chris Chris White, the drummer? Alan White. Alan Horne. The drummer, he was complaining because Trevor Rabum was trying to get him to do a rim shot, and he'd never done a rim shot in his life for um uh owners of a lonely heart or whatever that was. Yeah, so yeah, there's a bit of rock history. Is that but we weren't allowed to tell anyone, it was all a bit hush-hush because it wasn't signed and sealed, but that was the rumour. But Chris Choir, I remember a lot. He used to be he was quite a decent chap, the bass player, wasn't he?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, very great. He but they used to have good harmonies and all, didn't they? He wasn't they were great. He was never he he was never given enough credit for the harmonies that he'd done and with his vocals that he added to his their their vocals and their sound all the time. Great bass player. He had that brick and batter sound and all, didn't it?
SPEAKER_02:That brick and battery. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. I used to stick my head in the door and listen to them because they were just great musicians.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Uh a lot of those bands, you know, there were a lot. I don't know if you remember, there were smaller bands of that ilk who I mean, I'm not comparing them to yes, but that were going around the London, well, round the around the UK circuit, praying mantis, Grand Prix, these sort of bands. Yeah, I remember those, yeah. Um they they were going around and they they used to come and rehearse there. They were good good bands, but they didn't quite have the the final kick over into you know, super.
SPEAKER_00:That's an interesting point when you start you see good bands that bands that should you think make it, and it's either bad management or just bad or just bad luck sometimes. I think sometimes you mean you think why are these bands not not bigger? Yeah, I mean, I'll see that a lot now. Yeah, a lot of bands I'll see that. I think why are these bands not bigger? Yeah, I mean, uh I don't know if it's management like or or you know, I mean, just just um bad luck, really. Wrong place wrong time sometimes. You've got to be in the right place right time, maybe.
SPEAKER_05:So, question on you say bands these days are you guys going out seeing newcomers, or are you sticking with what should we say? The heritage bands, bands we've been around for decades.
SPEAKER_04:Um a mixture I was gonna say a mixture, because obviously some of the bands that we used to see are still going in various formations and that, so where we can catch them. But I think uh for me I've become a little bit more choosy now. I won't go and see a band just because they were a big band, because I'm rather worried about them not being the same sort of quality. Yeah, yeah. And I I I deliberately didn't try to go and see Zeppelin when they did Celebration Day because I was fearful that it wouldn't be as good. And again, another massive regret because the sound quality was fantastic, you know, the quality of the album was really good. Um and the trouble is there aren't there aren't many new bands coming up, but when we do come across one that we think would be a good band, I mean, very often, you know, they might tip up at the rope tackle or whatever, then we we will try and go and see them. Um, but there aren't that many coming through now, and I think this is one of the big differences between nowadays. You know, you get this question of what you know, why were the bands back in the 70s, you know, by so big and there's not big bands coming through? It's because the bands then were better. They were better bands because they had to they had to survive by playing live. Yeah, they would go that's that's the other issue.
SPEAKER_05:There aren't so many live venues, especially if we're starting off, you know, and too. Well no, pubs pubs can't afford bands these days, can they? The overheads are too great.
SPEAKER_04:No, and then the big stadiums, and the stadiums aren't as good quality as they get felt. I mean, trying to get out of oasis was absolutely insane. But 80,000 people all trying to get on the same tune train, basically. Just absolutely bonkers. And I the sound quality of them isn't as good either. Um, but then we just don't seem to have the bands coming through because the routine always used to be they would disappear into a studio, they would work for X amount of time, release an album, and then the only way was by touring.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:What about you, Rudy?
SPEAKER_00:I I kind of would disagree with that a little bit. Um, you mean I like to see why when I say new bands, yeah, I mean there's bands that are most they're most probably 10 years old now, that bands that I that I like, yeah. I mean, it started coming up me and the bat uh a rock band called The Answer, you mean a band called Rival Sun. They're they're pretty much retro playing, playing and maybe 20, 20, 30 years ago would have been big bands. But I find these bands get to a certain stage now, they're in the clubs, and they maybe get to a theatre, but stepping up to that next stage, it seems hard. They don't seem to be able to get out of the like thousand, thousand-seater or thousand venue, thousand-seater venues into the bigger thing. And um, I'm not sure, you know. I mean, sometimes I think they just need one record, you know. I mean, like bands like Leonard Skinner, you mean I went to see Leonard Skinner recently, and the crowd were pretty fair, and it was two songs, Freebird and um Sweet Home Alabama. When they come on, the crowd goes nuts. So a lot of them a lot of the crowd, because there was a younger crowd there, only knew those songs. So if you get a song like if you have a hit single, it sort of gets you, and people start to come and see you maybe then, and then you develop your fan base from then, you know what I mean? But yeah, there are some good bands. There are good bands out there, there are some great bands out there that still play. You know, I mean, I like a band called the Blue Pills, who are on with Rival Sons with they've got a girl singer, they're Swedish, they're pretty good. And there's another band called The Struts, who are very much like Queen and sort of that kind of poppy rock band. Yeah. But not too much over here. Do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02:I don't think you know I I think this I think this point, Rudy,'s been brought up in a previous podcast with with Jake and Steve Martin. Um, this came up, Phil, if you remember, where they you asked them what's the main difference between then and now, a few things, about the live aspect. And they were saying one of the things that's changed the whole thing is too many screens, where the people are looking at the screens and they're not looking at the band anymore. And I I I I can I can see that is as a as as a positive and a negative. Um I back last April, I think it was, my missus and I and some friends, we went uh uh we went to um uh Abu Dhabi to watch uh Coldplay. And uh that was one of those things. I mean, I like all their tunes and stuff, but I wanted to go and see the production, you know. And they're a really polished act, there's no tourism about that, but there's a lot, there's a lot of backbacking tracks and stuff supporting them and loads of screens, and you end up watching the screens, you know. Um they do try the same thing as um uh uh Brian Adams. I've worked with Brian Adams, you went to see them where he uh for the encore, he has this he has the stage at the back, you know, where they come on and they they do a similar thing. So the people in the cheap seats get to see the artists a bit, but I think that is a killer now. Uh if there is a negative.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, I just was like that. I mean, we we have pretty good seats. We were only around the area of the halfway line of where the football bench is went. Yeah, so we have a pretty good view, and we were high enough up to have a good view down the stage, but even from there, the stage was really, really small. That as you rightly say, you know there's no point watching the stage because you can't really see it, so you're focusing entirely on the massive screens that were behind, and you it's a bit like going to a massive cinema, really. And then occasionally you sort of remember there is a there is a baton down on the stage, like you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's kind of it's kind of like sometimes uh the actual the music is becoming a soundtrack to the light show, or um rather than actual there is that, yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah coming out of the front, but there are some bands, yeah. I mean, there's some need. I mean, like you I went to see Kiss when they had no makeup and and the light show was not fair, and they want half. You mean they depend on their light show and it's all about the the explosions and whatever, and some bands rely on it. Whereas if you go and see Bruce Springsteen, Bruce Springsteen is quite happy just to play with just bare minimum lights or whatever. There's no over-the-top light show, I don't think, there.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I mean he has other screens to enhance the viewing aspect of the model. They're mainly of the band, they're not um yeah, yeah, not for effects or atmospheric.
SPEAKER_00:That's part of the reason why I I kind of stay away from stadium gears, I shy away from them. I mean, for Christmas last year, my kids bought me tickets, me and my brother tickets to go and see I'm maiden at the uh the Olympic Stadium in um in London, West Ham's football ground there. And I always kind of think when we were right, not at the back, we're in one corner up, quite high up. But like Chris says, you mean if you look at the people I could you wouldn't be able to recognize it could be anybody on the stage, too. It could be anybody and you depend on the pictures of whatever and they used to group me quite well. Quite I I was um considering I'd not been to a stadium gig since what 2000 when we went to see Aerosmith and all that at when at the old Wembley before the old Wembley show. And um the the sound was brilliant, the sound was brilliant, but I always get the feeling like I'm outside looking in rather than actually in the gig. Yeah, I mean when you're on that side, but it's like looking in the window at it, yeah. I mean, uh and I you mean for me that's not as enjoyable. Yeah, I mean, it was great sound, it's a great gig, but you you don't really feel it, you don't feel meaning why they get up and dance or whatever. Yeah, I mean, you like you're you're a spectator, really, rather than participating.
SPEAKER_05:You know, I mean I saw spring scene in Italy on two occasions. First time was in Rome at the famous Maximus Circus, it was the old uh horse racing amphitheatre. Yeah, and we managed to get into the the pit at the front, so they had some sort of system where you wait two days before and you get a number, and eventually you work your way through. Uh, that was an amazing experience being in the pit, yeah, yards away from from the band. Second time was two years ago, again in uh Milan, uh in Italy, in Milan at the racetrack, and it was enormous. We were way back, and you could only, as you say, see the band on the big screens. It was sort of like little lance on the stage, and uh different atmosphere completely because you as you said, really, like you're looking in, you're not part of it.
SPEAKER_04:You don't feel you don't feel part of it, yeah. I mean we started this off saying that the fans are key to the actual overall experience, you know. They are, yeah. I think one of the one of the best gigs we went to um wasn't in terms of size, quality, or massive light shot, it was um when Deep Purple joined forces with Steve Morse, and they were about to go on tour for the first time, I think it was, with this new lineup, and we learned through Mark Order that they were doing a warm-up gig at the half moon in Putney. Wow, only holds 300 people. Wow, so we thought we saw Deep Purple live to a full concert in the back room of a pub in London. Outstanding, yeah, outstanding, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, um talk talking about these these bands. Obviously, it's a certain there there is a theme with the sort of music that you guys like of the heavier uh persuasion.
SPEAKER_00:Well, to be honest, but that is um, you mean that that list sort of betrays. I mean, it's not really. I do listen to a lot of other genres, they're mainly the bands that will go to see it. I mean, I I have seen a lot of other other people, I mean, uh have been with other other people that are not um always rock, you know what I mean? But I mean, I I love all sorts of music to be honest with you. Yeah, yeah. Oh I'll tell you a story. Um my wife is a big Osmonds fan from from from way back, and and um guilty secret coming up. She they she had a group and they were going up to see the Osmonds, and uh they had hired a minibus and whatever. And the girl who was driving the minibus, she couldn't make it, she was ill for one time. And then my wife, Jimmy, is not confident to drive a minibus or whatever. So I said, no, I'll do it, I'll do it, I'll take them up. Because I used to do that when my daughter, my daughter liked Westlife, and I used to take her and um my wife to see Westlife, and I'd sit outside or go and have a meal somewhere, and and they'd go and see the concert, and then I'd drive them home. And they were going to this Osmonds thing, and Wembley had just changed then. It is it was after Wembley was being built, the new Wembley. So they used to have toilets in the car park there. So I I could always go back and have a saying, I'll go to the toilet. And I thought, well, I'm not that's all gone, and there's a spare ticket, I might as well go in. I might as well go in. So I went in.
SPEAKER_02:Sure. Sorry, we'll go with it, don't worry.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and there was yeah, I mean, it was massive. It was, I would say, 98% women, but it was like the heyday, it was like the heyday of the Osmo. Noise was unbelievable. It was like I had it down, and they were all like they would have been what 40 something, 40 plus age women, you know what I mean? All of these pre-med portable women, but the noise was unbelievable. And they opened up. I like one track by the Osmonds. Uh that's crazy. They opened with that, and I thought, that's my evening, that's my evening over now. Yeah, I mean, that's done. And I thought they can't possibly, they can't possibly do long-haired lover from Liverpool. And Jimmy Osman done it, and he rocked it. He absolutely rocked it. The production was brilliant, and they were so slick, and it was not you know, I mean, it I kind of in in sort of some guilty pleasure way enjoyed it, I think. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_05:It's um hordes of screaming women, that's what it's all about.
SPEAKER_00:Sometimes when things are you don't expect too much, yeah. And that's always the best gigs that you go to when you don't really know, and it turns out into something, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, exactly. And talking of screaming women, uh, Russell, you've had that experience with Tom Jones.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah, good old Tom. Yeah, I did the I worked with Tom a few times. I did the when he came back from America when he was about 40-ish. He he big star in America doing Vegas and all that. And he came back and we started at at um uh uh what's it called? Cardiff um St. David's Hall in Cardiff.
SPEAKER_05:That was the first, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And um, I remember standing at the side of the stage, and Tom came along and he had his his radio mic, and uh he started singing. I can't remember the song of it, you are all and something like that. But he was belting it out, and I was thinking my first thought was wow, you could be a really good heavy metal singer.
SPEAKER_00:He's got a great voice, Tom Jones. Great blues voice, great blues. He done an album with George Holland of Blues thing, and absolutely fantastic. Unbelievable.
SPEAKER_05:You did you did a gig with him in um in Dubai, and he came on and he did Lenny Kravitz, Are You Going My Way? That was so powerful. Oh, yeah, that was stunning in the car park, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it was really cravitz in there.
SPEAKER_02:I'll stop, guys. I'll stop. I'll just uh let you into um Phil has interviewed everybody, every man and his dog. Well, you've even he's even interviewed the orange Mussolini.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he sang a song or two.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, uh you must have interviewed Tom Jones, surely.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, a couple of times on the telephone. There was another time he was doing a gig in Dubai, traffic was bad, he couldn't get he's delayed seriously. He got a boat across the creek to where the venue was, which was a great way of getting there. And uh I said, Tom, what about an interview? He goes, No time, no time. So a colleague of mine was very good at doing impersonations, so we did a quick 30-second uh chat with uh with uh with him impersonating Tom Jones.
SPEAKER_00:Wasn't Rob Brydon, was it? He does a quick yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:No, this guy was what was exactly it was even worse. Uh and then we did that one with uh Engelbert Hamperding uh Russ.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. I I prom I promoted I promoted Englebert Hamperding in in the golf and um uh I set up an interview with Phil with Ing Ingelbert and from LA, and um when when his son uh his son was managing him, like Tom's Tom Jones' son managed him, Mark. Um uh Inglebert's son managed him. And when they arrived in the golf and we were doing this tour, he admitted to me that actually I said, Thanks for the interview, that was really good, you know. Help the help promote the show and stuff. He said, Oh, well, actually, I have to let you into a secret because I feel quite my my dad, my dad wasn't was was was not available. He said so it was me, and so I I I told I told Phil, you bust yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_05:It worked, it worked, it's the magic of radio. There's no no visuals, had no idea. And he was very very convincing, it was unbelievable. But uh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um I just wanted to uh just change the mood a little bit because uh what I was getting to, Rudy, and we went off on a tangent, which we usually do. Um obviously you've watched you've watched a f a lot of great guitarists, and in the in you know, in the rock and roll sense guitarists. Um who who who would you class as the the most iconic guitarist you've ever seen live?
SPEAKER_00:Well iconic, if you're saying iconic, it's most probably it's got to be Jimmy Page because um Richard Blackmore, very good. Well, if I I was thinking about this the other day, and I thought who you mean as much as I love Jimmy, my brother killed me, but I think you know I would go with Rory Gallagher as to see as what he's become, and you mean the people he's he's influenced and and sh and and say he's an influence who he influenced, you know what I mean. And I saw him, I must have seen him getting on ten times maybe, and you mean he never done a bad show, even at the end of his when he he was quite ill. Well, people didn't know he was ill, he putting on a bit of weight, but he's still done a great show all the time, yeah. I mean, and you mean I I would go with Rory. About you, Chris.
SPEAKER_04:I think I'd probably stick with Jimmy Page if I had to pick one, because he was experimental, he's very free-flowing, he's very creative, um hardly a standard chord in his repertoire, uh repertoire. Um trouble is we've been spoiled. We've seen so many really, really good guitar. I mean, I've seen Eric Clapton two, three, four times, you know, Pete Townsend, Richie Blackmore, so many fantastic guitarists we've seen. It's hard to pick. I mean, Rory Gallagher is way up there, but then we've seen Gary Moore as well. Which one's the best? I think it it's subjective, you know. You can't really say there is it changes day to day.
SPEAKER_00:It's one of those things that came to day you're in.
SPEAKER_02:Can I can I can I throw a hand grenade in there? You do that, and just ask you what about uh very underrated, but I watch it time and time again. Uh my guitar gently weeps, the George Harrison, the super group on stage with Prince doing oh Prince, right?
SPEAKER_00:Without a doubt, fantastic.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, what a guitarist! Yeah, I mean, you know, we talk about Hendrix and all that, but uh no one ever talks about Prince. What a great guitarist! Yeah, that solo he does in that is just mind-blowing.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah, but yeah, but this is the this is the issue, and this is the debates that we have in the pub all the time. Because if you if you're gonna talk about quality playing of a guitar, you can't have that discussion without Dave Gilmour. No, I mean if you want to if you want to hear someone make a guitar cry, I mean that is just unbelievable. He's such a talented, he's a moving guitarist, you know, he's not hard rush, uh, crash. I mean, and then you got well, just rush, Alex Leeson. Again, they're all brilliant in their own way.
SPEAKER_02:Uh you know, you you just watched, I believe, on Thursday night, level 42, yeah. Um a friend of mine who I I toured with in some other bands, and he was um he was uh going right back, he was in long long John Baudry, that's like going right back. It was a guy called Alan Murphy, and he's no longer with us, God bless him, but um he was a lovely fella um and he uh played in level 42 for a while. And if you look on YouTube, and if you ever see, he had a certain style, and I used to love watching him play. He just he he wasn't a heavy metal guitarist, but he was just just he just had a lovely style about the way he played, and like you say, there's just so many of all genres that yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Then you can wheel in Mark Doppler, and yeah, you said, Oh, I mean that the the list just keeps going.
SPEAKER_00:Steve Howell, Steve Hell, Steve Hell, great guitarist.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, we've been so blessed, and and this is one of the things we always talk about, and you must understand the guys. I was gonna say it's like the history. We've been so blessed to have been alive in this last 40-50 years and seen so many amazing bands, and we see things different because Chris is got a musical here, he plays a plays an instrument.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I can't play a note or nothing. I mean, uh, so I only I only know what I like and what I hear. I mean, it's like I yeah, I don't know how it's produced and sort of it's it's all magic to me. And I sometimes I don't really want to know, yeah. I mean, because maybe that'll take the magic away, but yeah.
SPEAKER_04:What about um what about you guys was here to go, he needs to tune his guitar?
SPEAKER_00:Well, yeah, when we go to concerts, Chris will be there, and I'll go, it's amazing. He's like, Oh, you're struggling, you'd be going out of tune there a little bit.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, what about um all the guitarists that played in Thin Lizzy?
SPEAKER_00:I think I've seen all apart from the first one. What's his name? Eric Bell. I think I've saw all um all the guitarists playing there. There is started with Brian Robson. I see him with Brian Robson, and that was at the dome.
SPEAKER_02:Can I can I just we'll go on to it, but I must while I think of it. Brian Robson, uh Robertson. Robertson, yeah, that's it, Robertson. Uh Brian Robertson. He was they he and Thin Lizzie were rehearsing in John Henry's, where I was, and I I'd been out on a job and I came back into the tea bar and Robbo was was was there um making a cup of tea, and I was gonna make a cup of tea. And as I passed into the studio, there was this beautiful girl outside, absolute stunner, blonde hair, and everything. And I walked, and I thought, you know, you do a double take, and I walked in. I and I said to Robbo, all right, Robbo. And he was like, Yeah, all right. I said, bit of all right out there. Uh she's a bit of all right. He said, Yeah, I know it's my wife.
SPEAKER_05:Wife, whatever, what I want.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so that's that's the that's yeah. Anyway, carry on.
SPEAKER_00:Brian Robertson, yeah. Rob I saw Brian Robertson that that was in um the early. That's the first time I'd ever seen when they would started using the radio things, where they'll Phil Leonard had to bass on the radio um pickups. Yeah, I mean, that was about I think that was 70, 77, something and then what a great band. What a great band. Yeah, and then Gary Moore, I saw with Gary Moore, of course, uh, which was sort of more blues, and then Snowy White give them a sort of mellower sort of feel with Snowy White, and then sort of John Sykes at the end, he sort of gave them a little boost, really. He sort of, you know, I mean, like they were sort of failing. I think Phil Linnett's health is not good, and he sort of gave them a shot in the arm, really, for the last and made them a little bit heavier again, a heavier sound they have with I love I like I love the music.
SPEAKER_02:Phil, we must be getting to near the end of this.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I was gonna say we've got a few minutes left before the zoom stops recording. But regarding the guitarist, I was gonna go with Dave Gilmore. And I saw the the movie which came out, his world live show about a month ago, it was uh filmed in Rome, and that was pretty, pretty amazing uh movie. Uh but then sort of as I said earlier, I saw the Zeppelin one on a flight just two weeks ago, and that one with Jimmy Page just blew David Gilmour away, as far as I was concerned, it was just phenomenal. Yes, we're almost running out of time. And one thing I was going to ask mobile phones at gigs, what are your two uh what you what are your views on that? Where people are standing there, they're watching the show or filming or so-called filming on a mobile phone, blocking the view, and they don't really see the band.
SPEAKER_04:No, I agree with you. Yeah, and and I I catch myself doing something similar because you want to kind of record the moment your own memories, sort of thing, but then you realize you're actually looking at through, and then you're you're missing the actual show, so I'll put it down again.
SPEAKER_05:See you back. I mentioned that because uh we talked about Cardiff, St. David's Hall, and I saw Bob Dylan there just two years ago, I think it was in November. All mobile phones were banned, right? They've taken off when you went in, you got them on the way.
SPEAKER_04:That's why it used to be, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, and uh the show itself, no screens, totally stripped down. It's like it was playing in uh in a in a in a cinema, very basic lighting. It was stunning because you're just focused on him and the band.
SPEAKER_00:Because you listen to the music, then you actually listen to the music. I mean, with all the lights going on, you get distracted, and and I mean taking a photo, the odd photo. Yeah, I mean, and we were just talking earlier, saying all the gigs we've been to over the years, we got very, very little photographic evidence of anything we've ever seen. But I mean, it's it's great. Well, in the early days, you couldn't take a camera in, you'd be searched. Cameras were not allowed in. You'd never get thrown out if you had a camera.
SPEAKER_04:Possibly, I think, overall, the the the front door, the the best gig I've probably been to. I think overall for sound quality vision, overall experience has to be Pink Floyd when they played at Old School in 1995. Right. And the weird thing about it is I I've always said that the sound vision, the whole experience is just fantastic. I didn't go to a Rudy, I went with my nephew, and I don't have one single photographic evidence of that at all. Fortunately, of course, Pulse, the album, came out with a DVD, and I can sit back and re-watch the whole thing. Right. I don't have one photograph of that at all. What about you, Rudy?
SPEAKER_05:For your best ever show, concert, events?
SPEAKER_00:Um, most probably I Bruce Springsteen. I I saw Bruce Springsteen in 1981 on the ri on the river tour, and it was like uh I I was just starting going out with my wife, and it's the first show I took her to. And that was one of those shows where I mean, I just I bought the river album. I didn't really get into Bruce Springsteen until that album, really. You mean I was aware of Born to Run and people were playing it, but I was into other things of that. And I went to that show, and it that that totally blew me away because it was he done he done about I think he done about three hours. It was in two and he he opened with Born to Run, which is his biggest hit. You know, I mean nobody ever opens with a little bit. I mean, that's the that's the final show, that's the final song for the encore. Yeah, I mean that was an amazing and the and the the repartee with the audience and whatever, and getting people up, and you mean the band they all seemed it was just great fun, and also I'd say Rush. We both like Rush, like they are always sonically good.
SPEAKER_04:Rush is probably overall the most consistent, well-rehearsed, well-produced band we've ever seen. And we've seen them what three or four times or more, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And they're one of these fans who get that get that balance right with the light show and the and the screens and the actual music, yeah. It all fits together with them. I mean, it's uh brilliant.
SPEAKER_05:It's all about the music. That's gonna be our uh subtitle, I think, Russ, from now on. That's what it is. Yeah, yeah, from two fans' perspectives. Russell, over to you.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I think I think we have to draw a line under this. Um, it's been good to have you guys on because you know, we're all fans, really. And uh Phil and I uh and my other colleagues that I've interviewed, we we worked in the industry, and you know, sometimes we were saying you're not allowed to be starstruck. Um, you know, you have to be professional and uh all those things, but you know, in hindsight, um it's you know, still enjoy my music, still enjoy my vinyl, still enjoy you know listening to we're all fans and and and and without fans it doesn't happen, does it? So uh I th I think um you definitely earned your right on this podcast. Uh I think we will I think we will publish all the bands you have actually seen.
SPEAKER_05:Now, what I'm gonna do now is just give me a few.
SPEAKER_00:To me, it doesn't seem that many. Do you know what I mean? It seems like every day. Oh I I we could go, we could make another podcast on the bands we've missed that we'd like to have seen and not seen. You know what I mean? Like you say, yeah. Somebody like Prince, and you know what I mean? Who you think and you kind of think, why haven't I seen that? You know, you kind of think, why haven't I seen them? Do you know what I mean? And I've for for me, you mean I had that sort of spell up until you mean it mid-80s, and then when once you get married and children come along and you've got mortgages and whatever, you mean you don't get the time and you can't travel or away or working or you don't get and so and now that's all gone. My kids have all left home. I'm catching up again now, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Well, I'm gonna finish off and say if um you're listening and you're an organizer of a pub quiz night, these two guys are the ones to sign up for the music section. So it's Chris Mansfield and Rudy Baxter. Thanks for everything for joining us. Thank you, Phil.
SPEAKER_02:Thanks a lot.
SPEAKER_03:It's only rock and roll of Phil Blizzard Radio Production.
SPEAKER_05:Available on Apple, Amazon, Economic, Spotify, Teezer, Google, and all good podcast channels, and also now on YouTube.com that's a good idea, but