It's Only Rock n Roll with hosts Phil Blizzard & Russell Mason
"It's Only Rock and Roll" goes beyond the spotlight to reveal the fascinating stories of the unsung heroes who made rock's greatest moments possible. From groundbreaking concerts like Pink Floyd in Moscow during Glasnost to Wham performing at the Great Wall of China, this podcast captures a special time in music history through authentic, unfiltered conversations.
Co-hosts Russell Mason and Phil Blizzard bring complementary perspectives – Russell from his years touring and promoting, Phil from interviewing countless music legends throughout his broadcasting career. Together, they're creating a relaxed, nostalgic journey through an industry populated by unforgettable characters (many known only by their colorful nicknames).
Future episodes will feature tour managers, production crews, artist managers, record producers, and the legendary "liggers" (backstage gate-crashers) who defined an era. These are the people who witnessed it all – the near-disasters averted, the bizarre requests fulfilled, and the moments of brilliance that audiences never saw.
It's Only Rock n Roll with hosts Phil Blizzard & Russell Mason
Security to the Stars: Ronnie Franklin On Music Security
Fame can feel like a storm. We sit down with veteran security lead Ronnie Franklin to map the invisible work that keeps artists, crews and fans safe when the wind picks up—without turning the night into a fortress. From his baptism at London’s Rainbow Theatre to global tours with Wham and decades at George Michael’s side, Ronnie unpacks how planning and people skills beat brute force every time.
We trace the birth of modern concert security: radios that cut out around corners, promoters debating headcounts, fans copying passes, and the simple fix that worked—fewer pass types, smarter briefings, and relentless clarity. Ronnie takes us into Wham‑mania, where police vans, service corridors and decoy routes replaced glamour, and into Japan’s “polite hysteria” and China’s culture shock, where flight cases met 1940s trucks and loud sound cleared a hall in seconds. There’s a hair‑raising plane turnback, a football kickabout with Rod Stewart, and the infamous Wembley moment when a guard swore “that’s not George Michael,” all handled with humour and calm.
As George went solo, loyalty met scale. American management arrived, but George chose trusted UK heads for key roles, and Ronnie led security for the Faith tour with a low‑key brief: keep it safe and invisible. We talk about setting boundaries with stars, leaning on local law enforcement for rare credible threats, and training a new generation to de‑escalate first. Along the way, Ronnie paints a generous, focused portrait of George Michael—driven, kind, and precise about what he wanted—proof that the right protection lets artistry breathe.
If you care about live music, touring life, or how crowds are kept safe without killing the vibe, this conversation is packed with stories and hard‑won insight. Subscribe, share with a friend who loves music history, and leave a review to tell us which story blew your mind most.
It's Only Rock and Roll is a Phil Blizzard Radio Production - for your production email philblizzardmedia@gmail.com
Well, welcome to another edition of It's only Walking World and we love it. We love what we do. It's very much in the world's tourism though where we've been to all sorts of places, Denmark, connections with America. And I think today we start with London and we'll probably have a little bit of time at China as we welcome our guests on board. Look, we're also a different angle as well, from production to security.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's um it's I always say this a bit of a cliche. You know, we're really really excited every time we get a new guest on. What we've tried to look at is uh all aspects of put putting the events together, the shows together, and I guess the unsung heroes. You know, you obviously you have the artists, and we have spoken to artists, and we've had some very entertaining artists on, but um, it's really the people that are dedicated to putting the show on, and there's a lot of aspects to it. And I've tried to look back in time and get people on that I've obviously worked with or know, um, so that we can look into their illustrious careers, really. Um, and like I said before, everyone has a story and it's worth listening to. And our guest today is no less um uh Ronnie and I, um, Ronnie Franklin, who's our guest today, who's A to Z of Security, um, which in its in its own terms it might sound a bit boring, but trust me, as we go through this podcast, his life has been far from boring. And it started in the uh in the 70s and um up until present day, and he's got a lot of a lot of stories to tell. And uh hopefully we're gonna um be able to relay some of those to our viewers and listeners today. So, Ronnie, mate, welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having me on. It's good, it's good good to hear hear you and see you after all this time. Um and uh over to you, mate, Phil.
SPEAKER_02:Right, yes, Unsong Heroes, those people behind the scenes away from the stage, making things tick over and keeping people safe. So, Ronnie, welcome on board this podcast. Let's start off, like we always do with our guests. How did you get started in security? And no doubt you've got numerous recollections of working in this area of entertainment.
SPEAKER_00:So I think like a lot of people in the sort of backgrounds of the music industry, um, it was by chance really. I mean, I I was if I think it was uh 1978-79, I was newly engaged, I was about to get married, I was looking to earn some extra money, and a friend of mine said to me, Oh, you know, why don't you come and do some security stewarding work at the Rainbow Theatre in Finsby Park? You know, you could do two or three nights a week or whatever. At that time, the rainbow was like one of the most popular venues, I believe, uh, in town. So they were very busy. And um, so I went over, they went along. The company that was in charge was called Artist Services, um, by Don Murphy. And uh, so I joined them and started working on a regular basis at the rainbow. We provided, I think we provided all the security at the it was front of house and backstage, so dressing rooms, front door, um, exits um in the barriers, the pit. Um, so yeah, so that was my that was my introduction to music.
SPEAKER_01:But the the rainbow, Ronnie, was an amazing venue. I mean, I love that place. And I have a memory, I mean, I did loads of bands there back in the day, but I remember clearly shooting a video there, which maybe you you might have been doing security for, where they had a lot of punters in to shoot a video with um Bow Wow Wow. You remember Annabelle with the more Bow Wow? Yeah, um, yeah, go wild in the country. Remember that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So maybe you uh maybe you were there.
SPEAKER_00:We hadn't met at that stage, but maybe. I mean, I do remember doing something with Bow Wow Wow at the rainbow because it was my it was one of those um funny moments that um I was backstage at that point, um doing uh backstage security with a team of guys, um, dressing room, stage door, etc. etc. And I vividly remember Malcolm McLaren, who was their manager. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He came up to me and said, Also the Sex Pistols, no. Uh yeah, he was still, yeah. I think he I think the Sex Pistols were kind of on the wane, maybe a little bit. Yeah, and uh Bow Well were on the up.
SPEAKER_01:But he was their manager, wasn't he?
SPEAKER_00:Was their manager, yeah, exactly. Yeah, and um famously for me, it was my first sort of run in with a soon-to-be megapop star. And he but Malcolm Baker said to me, Look, there's a guy coming to the show. Um, he's gonna be backstage, but whatever happens, he must not come on stage. And it was Boy George. All right, we had to kindly remind him that he wasn't allowed on stage by the performance on, and he may have been though.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I'm can't remember he's a big guy, George, as well, isn't he? Yeah, he's yeah, he was the people don't think you know he's all this effeminate like dresser, but he's actually a big he's a big guy, and I think he used to do a bit of boxing, so you had to work that out, Ronnie.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think his family were I think they they were in bit of into a bit of boxing, if I remember rightly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the rainbow. That was kind of my baptism of fire, if you like, into into um security, yeah, rainbow theatre. It was a great place.
SPEAKER_02:So baptism of security at the uh at the rainbow, you say, and then uh of course, um looking at your CV, doing a bit of research about what you've done, the bigger shows, the uh places like Nebworth with um Led Definitely. I remember going there seeing Pink Floyd and Toy Pink Floyd, Pink Floyd at Earl's Court, number one of your uh gigs, so to speak. And uh what about um reggae, Bob Marley, and uh Crystal Palace amongst many, many of the uh people you've worked with? Um share us what your what was your actual role for events like that? And it must have been a great start, a great learning curve. What did you pick up along the way?
SPEAKER_00:So as memory is memory serves me. I mean, we were all learning back in those days. I mean, security was kind of it was an afterthought and a lot of like, you know, especially in promoters' mind, it was like it was like, oh, you know, is this a necessary expense and can we keep the numbers down and such and such? And so we were always fighting as companies, and there were a few companies around at the time, and we were always fighting to get the manpower numbers up so that we could man the events safely. I mean, you know, security is about it's not just about looking after the artist or band, whoever, it's about the crowd and the fans and everyone involved, and all the crew as well, you know. So, you know, if you don't if you have an unsafe, unsecure venue site, whatever, then people get hurt. It's as simple as that. And so managing events like you know, as a as a member of a team back in those days, I was part of a team of people. Um you know, we had to look at all sorts of aspects in terms of uh people coming into the venue, for example, with the without tickets, that sort of thing, people trying to get in, you know, trying to trying to break into venues in those days. Um doesn't seem to happen as much nowadays. Um and so perimeter security, which was always an issue with the promoter because they didn't really want to pay for it. Um and then you've got the backstage security, uh, which again back in those days it it tended to be split between companies. So one company, like we were if I was still at Art Services for a network, for example, um, we would be controlling the front of house, and then another company, I think it was uh Jim Callahan's company, Callhound, they would be controlling the backstage area. And so between us, we would, you know, those we'd man those events, manage those events, and try and make sure they went well.
SPEAKER_02:So I'm surprised I passed them crossed because I was trying to black my way into the front stage area as a young broadcaster journalist. So a lot of it crowd control, entry control, but was it was it sort of driven by the excitement of the fans getting more excited and wanting to jump on stage rather than sort of external um what should we say, sources, you know, people who've got uh other ulterior motives for getting in close to a star, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think in all honesty, I think in the music and in that sort of in our industry, um back in those days it was more about crowd control and about stopping people, you know, over exuberant fans. Sure, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, you know, uh any any standout moments of crazy activities or crazy ways of people trying to get in or on stage? There must have been a lot of things.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, there's all you know, I mean, I mean, you know, apart from the obvious of trying to scale fences and and and you know, over 12 foot high fences and stuff like that with you know guard dogs running around, you know, there's always there's always the um the the more um elaborate elaborate uh ruses of trying to uh copy passes, you know, that was a big thing, you know, where people made up passes. And when you're when you're on a big site, um like big like a nebworth or a Milton Keynes bowl or those sort of open air sites, um, there tends to be a lot of passes, various types. You've got whole you know, range of hospitality passes and backstage passes and TV crew and press and this and that. And so, you know, some of the ingenious um fans would would make up their own passes, you know. Really? Okay, through like that.
SPEAKER_02:So one other thing from uh this sort of era, this sort of time, communication was very different, I suppose, to what it is now in terms of walkie-talkies and uh everything else. What did you have to well work with? How did you communicate with yeah?
SPEAKER_00:We did. I mean, we we we in those days we did have some radio communication, it was very poor. Um, you know, you could you you literally walk around a corner and lose lose radio contact. Um and we we you know we had um I can remember we it's so like at Nebwa, for example, we we would uh we had a base station where we would erect a um a base station up with a big aerial to try and give us better radio communication. But even that wasn't great back in those days, you know. So it was a more case of you know, if you if need something needed to be done, you would, you know, like on a site like Nebworth or Built and Keynes, you know, we'd put three or four guys in a Lamb Rover and rush them off to wherever the problem might be.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It either sort itself out or they get there in time to help sort out whatever the problem might be.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah. I mean, from from that, Ronnie, um, obviously the the industry of security, let's call it the industry of security, uh, had to develop and become more sophisticated to move with sophistication of the technical side of of the industry and the the technical um uh things that were that were advancing uh in the world, you know, it's just normal. But uh with the pass thing, you know, then you'd have the you'd have the pass board with all the, you know, so the security, even the security, like you say, they used to get, if you had local security supporting your team, even they get confused which passes which, you know, uh you'd have a briefing, but then they forget half the passes. So you'd have to have that board, and even that was an advance to what it was in the first place, wasn't it? You know, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I think you know, like I I do I remember um just thinking back onto, for example, we'll get onto the Faith Tour, but I do remember you know, speaking to Jake about passes for the Fave Tour and trying and saying, like, we need to keep this as simple as possible. Yeah, going to other countries where uh you know, back in the 80s, where security may have been a little bit uh less uh uh advanced, if you want to, you know, for whatever word you want to use, yeah, than it was in the UK. And it needs to be simple, it just need it almost needs to be black and white, like yeah, and try and keep as you know, you you go to some events and you can see like 20 different passes, yeah, it's so complicated, yeah. So even the security game they get confused. Yeah, you're expecting a guy who's being paid, you know, like minimum wage to stand in on a gate to to understand all of that. It's not fair on them, really. So you know, my my my view has always been let's keep it as simple as possible.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so just retracking a bit there. Um, you started out that way, it was very clear how you started, and then there was a little bit of a side shift where Showseck came into it, and you immediately became like very involved with Show Tech Show Sec and as a partner. I mean, you must have been still quite young.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I was still, I was, I was in my well, I must have been just in my mid-20s, I guess. Yeah, 25. Yeah, because show sec is like awesome. I mean, it's it's so famous. So, yeah, that came about. Um, artist services where we all worked at the time, well, most of us worked at the time. Um, Donald Gdon, who was the owner, had gone off to manage Adam and the Ants for whatever it is. Um and um too bad. Who knew um and so some of us, Mick Upton, who was who was kind of the head guy actually at uh artist then in terms of actually the work, um I think he became a bit disillusioned with uh the way that company was going and felt the need to change. So he decided to set up Showse with another guy called Jerry Slater. I remember Jerry, yeah. I remember Jerry, right? Um so and he approached myself and a couple of other guys and said, look, we're gonna we're gonna form this new company. Um obviously there's gonna be some conflict in terms of you know uh relationships with previous company, but are you interested in coming along? And we we said yes and and off we went. And um initially it was run out of Mick's home, but then we um and he he asked me to come on board more well more or less full-time at that point. And we moved to an office in Fulham in a basement underneath uh uh because um music um concessions who protected um merchandise they gave us an office down in the in their basement. And um so that's kind of the beginnings of the show seg. And it was very, you know, it was very new. Um we didn't have a lot of work to be to be fair. Um we mick had some contacts at the BBC and we did some uh live broadcast stuff with them with um uh superstars, I think was one of theirs, um, Radio One Broad show. And then we got into Capital Radio and we did some of their um Estisco in town events and things like that. You know, Jerry and I would would would go out and punt for work, if you like, you know, with promoting and and stuff. And it was tough, but you know, but we succeeded. Yeah, we you know we started picking up promoters, you know, the promoters started coming to us asking us to provide security backstage at Wembley Arena um long before any of the other big sort of venues came along. Most was most security at the time was in-house, you know, Hammersmith O yeah, like that. It was all done in out. Um and the promo I think the promoters felt that if they were renting, like if they were taking over the building to promote a show, they wanted certain amount of control in certain areas, so backstage security became devoid, you know, separate from front of house. Front of house remain may have remained with the Hammersmith people, yeah. For a concert, then they would bring in some you know backstage security and between us and call a hand and a couple of other companies. That's how we started to go.
SPEAKER_02:Ronnie mentioned Radio One Road show. I'm familiar with that from a uh fans or spectator perspective. So I grew up in a seaside town, Western Supermare, and every summer they would descend with their Arctic trucks and set up the stage on the B to be the donkeys. Western Super Mare is famous for its donkeys one side. Yeah, it was a big event, and people perhaps don't realise how big the uh Radio One Road show was at the height of its popularity. Huge, wasn't it? Huge.
SPEAKER_00:And talking about that was that was more of a crowd control, you know. That was a crowd, yeah. Also, you know, you you weren't focusing on security of any one particular person or act or whatever. It was many trying to manage the crowds that built up because they were they were full events, obviously. Sure, weren't paying so anyone could just turn up at any time, and you could have a hundred people or you could have 10,000 people. You did you need to kind of really know what you select, you know?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, big crowds. I think West of Superman is probably more like 10 or 20,000. Beach was taken over. Huge, actually huge, and then staying with radio, capital radio. I think that was where you sort of made contact with the famous duo of Wham. So, how did uh that progress and uh this the big tours you did?
SPEAKER_00:So that I think my memory serves me, it was around uh it was the early 80s, I think it was 81, 82. Um, where I'm uh been around a little bit, they tried to have some success, it hadn't quite happened, and they I think it's documented, they they were given a chance to be on top of the pops. Yeah, someone called out, um which kind of shot their single up the charts. And they were they were doing I remember I think I met them first at the Lyceum in the Strand on the Capitol thing, and um they obviously the kids were just it was just mayhem in terms of screaming kids, you know, all all kids under the age of 15, I guess, yeah. Um and Pete Wilson from Harvey's at Goldsmith's office was there and he was telling me about the the tour that they were putting together for this group for for wow. And he said, you know, he said, This is you know, uh we've done a few of these things and the kids are just going mad for a and you know, we can imagine that there's gonna be problems in terms of uh, you know, uh getting in and out of venues, you know, kid trying to manage screaming teenagers and whatever. He said, So that's what yeah, we might need some security on the tour. And I said, Yeah, okay, well, if you do, then you know come and talk to us. So he did. Um initially I there's a guy called Dave Moulder, who I worked with before, he worked with us at uh ShowSec and he'd worked with Adam and the Ants on tour. And Barry Mead, I believe, was gonna be the tour manager. And Barry had worked with him on a couple of events and stuff, so we agreed that they would go out on tour. So Dave went off, and I think the girl the first show was in Aberdeen, if I remember right. And I get a phone call the next morning from Dave saying, Okay, this is not a one-man job. You know, can you meet me in Glasgow or somewhere? I was like, because this is crazy. So I went off to the next show and it was absolute mayhem. I mean, it literally was you know, the the building was surrounded from I guess three o'clock in the afternoon with thousands of kids, girls, mostly mainly girls, um, a lot without tickets. They were just there to see the just see the boys, you know, turn out. And so getting in and out of the venue became a you know a challenge.
SPEAKER_01:It was Beatlemania, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_00:It was Beatlemania. I mean, you know, I I I mean, I was probably just a bit too young for Beatlemania, but I mean I remember uh growing up with listening to the Beatles' songs and seeing some of the stuff on film and TV, whatever. But yeah, it was kind of like that.
SPEAKER_01:It was it was it was I think I think that's um sort of moving on with Wham and that. I think that's where you and I first met each other. And um uh I remember Dave Mulder, but uh as I remember it, Dave was working with George and you were working with Andrew, which which seems on the on the outset seems an easy gig, but actually it wasn't because Andrew brought all his mates along and they they needed as much managing as well. I mean it was like uh it was like herding cats, wasn't it? Looking after Andrew.
SPEAKER_00:They were I mean they were they were great guys, but it was like like school children being left those, you know, they literally and then you had the mum and dad and this one and that one and auntie. This yeah, and sisters, of course. Both parents, um yeah, George's two sisters, uh Melanie. Yeah, Andrew's brother and his mum and dad would would come along, and Andrew's Andrew's friends. It was about four of them, I think, if I remember rightly. But it was a lot of people, I mean, you know, it was new for them, you know, to be fair. You know, they've suddenly been elevated into this uh kind of um you know mad world of pop hysteria. And so, you know, they would they they played obviously played along with it, Andrew more so than George. I think George was like, Oh, hang on a minute. This is a kind this is a bit crazy. Andrew, I think Andrew loved it uh a bit more.
SPEAKER_01:But but I I because I was about 23, 24, I was a little bit older than George and Andrew, just only a little bit. Um I I just remember it being very a lot of fun. It was crazy, but a lot of fun, and it was a bit of a family atmosphere on the road. Because obviously it was the family, but we sort of I mean, I remember going to the cinema with Yoda, you know, and she got used to come to my parties and stuff. Um, you know, and we were very all very friendly. Um and uh it was a good it was a good atmosphere because like you say, it was a it was a learning curve for them and it was all new to them. But yeah, it was mad.
SPEAKER_00:No, it was. I mean, but and it as you say, it it it was more like a family tour, if you like, you know, yeah, friends and family tour. I mean, a friends and family room backstage was you know always the busiest room.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah. Yeah. But it was good for you. It was good fun. I do remember uh Ronnie, and uh this is for our viewers and listeners. Ronnie's not your typical uh what you would maybe cliched um security guy, you know. You always think of you always think of the the uh nightclub bouncer beefer type. He's not that sort of guy, he's more strategic than that. And um, I don't want to embarrass you, uh Ronnie, but I always I I used to like it. Used to come in with the boys or uh later on you you obviously looking after George and you just you'd always come in, you know, with him and always say, Everything all right, you know, and you were very calm about everything, but I always noticed that you always had a good good handle and everything. And I think that's probably, and you can explain it better because it's your it's your um industry. Um you always had eyes and ears everywhere, and you're always uh like like a move ahead, you know. Is there any danger there? Is that going to be a potential problem? And um, I mean, is that fair? I I always found you very calm, even though potentially there were a lot of you know uh catastrophic things that could happen.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think from my point of view, as you say, I'm not the biggest person in the world and I don't impose myself on people. It's not my that wasn't my style. No, my style was, you know, someone always said to me that if you if if if doing doing security in the entertainment world, if you like, um if you re if you have the resort to physical violence, then you've failed in your job because you shouldn't be in a position, you should have played you know, you should be planning ahead enough that those things don't come up. Now, not that's not to say they never come up, obviously because they can, but generally speaking, we when you're dealing with celebrities, uh you're dealing with people uh who like them and they want to be close to them for whatever reason, they want to autograph photos, they want to shake their hands, they want to give them a hug, a kiss, or whatever. You get obviously there's gonna be the odd occasion where someone is uh going to do something for whatever reason, and we've had those incidents over the years. But to be fooled, I can't remember throughout my career ever been in a situation that we've had to any of us that have worked with me or um alongside me on my tours of having had to use a physical to you know to to do our job. And you know, security has changed over those years. Um it used to be much more you know, men in dinner suits with bow ties and you know, chucking people through doors and that sort of thing. Nowadays it's much more uh regulated. The you know um security regulations come into force many years ago in terms of uh licensing people. Um and in the end, you know, in in the uh what people want to call bodyguarding roles or whatever they want to however they want to term it, you know, the terminology keeps changing. Um it's become more professional. And so you will still you still will see, you know, uh some very big people working security on certain artists, and that's because that's what the artists want. They want a physical presence for whatever reason. And it you know, it it does work, obviously, it can deter people, there's no question about it. Um but then you got other artists who don't want that, and George was one certainly one of those who who shunned security as much as possible, but he understood it was necessary, and so what when he you know he his his brief to me was always we just need to keep it as low key as possible.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So with the fan frenzy, Beatlemania, or in this case, Wham Mania running, there must have been. I mean, obviously, the whole goal was to get the boys from the venue out of the venue or into the venue safely. Would it extend to the hotels? And also, I mean, yeah, there must have been, yeah, the aim to get them safely to wherever. Um, there must have been some times where the the mania was really over the top, and you had to perhaps uh I don't know, use different ways of getting the boys out of their venue or to the hotel, any sort of colorful moments.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, we'd use police bands, ambulances, you know. I mean, you know. What about wigs and disguises? Well, not so much of that. I mean, that didn't yeah, that really didn't work too well. Um it wouldn't you would have tried it if he could. Well, yeah, but in generally, I mean, you know, we we you know, we would we would use all sorts of things. I mean, you know, obvious things of not going out stage doors, everyone would be hanging around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, we'd we'd hopefully be able to park a vehicle in a site somewhere out of the way that no one really knew about and slip out that way. Um hotels, we you know, I think I've been through more um corridors in you know in the backs of hotels and service bays and service stairs and services that stink to high heaven, um you know, to get into in and out of hotels. So I mean, some of the you know, some back in Wham mania days. I remember, you know, I think I remember in Australia, I think it was um there was probably two or three thousand kids outside the hotel when we arrived. Sable Townhouse. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:They used to sing Wham songs all night. Do you remember? Yeah, dude, yeah. That was really welcome, wasn't it? Well, for the other guests, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, for us, we just wanted to sleep. We'd heard them all before. Exactly, yeah. So um, yeah, so you know, being being uh you know, being creative, getting in and out of places became an art form, I think, for a lot of us in this experience, especially during those times, if you know, there were a lot of um a lot of bands around at the time, you know, not just whammy had the Duran, Spandal Ballet, and those sort of you know, culture. They all had their own problems with their own fans, not you know, again, not physical problems, just numbers of people, yeah, especially numbers of people trying to get close to them.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, so on that note, those artists, I think Russ in Dubai had an easy time in terms of uh fan mania because it was a much older audience most of the time, expats, and uh very little, uh very few screaming uh teenagers.
SPEAKER_01:Well, not not an Engelbert Humbling gig. Yeah. The main problem with Shirley Bassey was chasing my she was chasing my mate Ian. She liked him, so we had to put him in the we had to put him in the truss on a truss spot in the end to hide him.
SPEAKER_00:It was a good looking guy in those days, he I do remember, I do remember like with fam with Fan Mania. I didn't remember on the first time we went to Japan um with Wham and the Japanese are you know they're a funny old bunch, aren't they?
SPEAKER_01:It's strange, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I was on that tour, yeah. And you know, you could it was one of those things where you could actually get the interpreter to say to Pete like the kids, stand still or stay in back, and they would do it. They would listen to you. Well, you try that in England or anyone else, you know, they're just gonna laugh at you.
SPEAKER_01:So they I remember in Japan, the first show, um, we were all shocked, and you probably remember this as well, because it was such chaotic. I mean, the noise was just phenomenal for all the UK shows. And then you turn up in Japan and they come, they they come off after the first number. And if you remember, George used to come off and he used to like have a drink and uh um and ask what the next number was and who was talking and all that stuff. And it was like, this is this is fucking weird, he said, because they there was just it was sort of so polite, it was polite hysteria's and stuff like that. Yeah, and it was like we're we're not used to this, you know. So um, yeah, that that took a bit of getting used to. And what I what I remember, Ronnie, from that was um they used to follow us, the same people used to follow us all over Japan. And I remember uh going to a restaurant, walking down the road to a restaurant, and there'd be this little patcher of feet behind you, and there'd be all these fans following crew. And and and I had a meal on my own once, sitting in a you know, sitting on the floor in a Japanese restaurant, and there are all these fans, they came in the restaurant and they said you know, I felt bad. I said, Well, sit down. Do you want anything? No, they just wanted to sit there and look at me. It was too odd. Very smooth. Yeah, very odd. Used to bring presents, you know, to every vet. You see the same people, they bring a present for you, and we were just a crew. I said it was mad.
SPEAKER_02:So that was uh Japan. What was it like in the sort of neighboring China then? Were fans very much the same or different approach, different attitude?
SPEAKER_00:So the China tour, yeah. China was was a trip, that wasn't it. God, I mean, people seriously. I mean, you know, I just there's so many different things in China that that come to mind. Um the fact that we were going there in the first place was a bit sure, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, we went to Hong Kong first, didn't we? We go to Hong Kong, we did two shows in Hong Kong, two warm-up shows, yeah, and to earn a bit of money because the the Chinese fleece Simon and Jess they weren't gonna get any money, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:No one was gonna so um yeah, so we did the two warm-up shows in Hong Kong, which went down really well, and then off we went to what was Beij uh what was in I just my my first memory of it was being I think we stayed at a Sheraton hotel if I remember. I think it was the only one of the only western built hotels at the time, 1984, 85, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, they were built by the they had a few, they had a couple of nice hotels built by Canadians, I think.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but I think very early days. I think it might have a Sheraton Tower sort of structure. But I remember driving, uh we we landed in and in the airport, and you know, the official uh workers' party cultural attaches or whoever they were uh ready there to meet us with the cars and in their dark suits and people.
SPEAKER_01:Well, they were wearing mausuits in those days, Ronnie. They were still wearing those grey mausuits. Do you remember?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and driving to the driving to the hotel looking at it, thinking, gee, this place is desolate, really. It's like yeah, it was very grey. There were there weren't many trees, or there were you know, there was there was no one on any of the streets, very few cars, and there were still horse and carts around and a lot of bicycles. Um millions of bikes, yeah. Millions of bikes, yeah. And then and then we went, I don't know if it was before the I'm sure it was before the first show. We were invited to the British Embassy to have drinks on the lawn, which I guess that you know, and so and the and the embassy they had a it was funny because it we we we got to the embassy and uh we were shown around a bit and then went out into the lawn, and then at the back of the lawn was another structure. And I said to someone, what's that? He said, Oh, that's our pub. And we go, and they they built a pub basically at the at the back of the lawn so they could go and have a drink every now and again.
SPEAKER_02:And then very much the same in the Middle East in Flazing.
SPEAKER_00:And then we were sat, I mean, Dave and I was Dave Mulder and I were just standing around. George and Andrew were off shaking hands with everyone. Chu comes up to us and he says, Um I understand you two chaps are you know very British. This guy, you know, I understand you two chaps are looking after the security of the boys and stuff. And I was like, Yes, we are. He said, I just want to uh just uh sort of tip you the wink that um be careful what you say in the cars and also what you say in your hotel room, he said, because basically everywhere is bugged. Wow, uh okay, thank you very much for that information.
SPEAKER_01:Uh but it it it was it was uh I mean from from my side, I I remember all those things you were saying as well. Um, I didn't go to the embassy, but um uh I remember uh we were the crew were in one hotel and the band were in another hotel, and it was really a slog to get that gig on. I remember we had they had all these 1940s open trucks, yeah, and and they had no ramps, so they were pushing like incredibly heavy flight cases up a plank, and you know, we were just like closing our eyes. Anyway, we eventually got the gig on. One of the funny things from the soundcheck was they'd never heard such loud music before, and there were a few people in the venue. Um, and I remember they just all ran out because they'd never heard such loud music. And um, the the other thing which I remember very funny, and God bless him, he's no longer with us, Dion Estes. Uh, he was the very charismatic bass player, Phil, with the dreadlocks. You see him in all the old waves. And he was such a character, wasn't he, Ronnie? And um, and and and uh I remember us coming back from the venue really late, tired and hungry, but there was no room service in our hotel. And uh I was like, what are we gonna do? We're starving, you know. It's uh and like you say, there's nothing there, it's not like it is now. And um, I said, I I know I know someone, uh, let's go to the band hotel. I bet Dion Esters, it was about three o'clock in the morning. I said, I bet he's having a party in his room because every night he has a party in his room, and they have room service. And what we'll do, we'll go to we'll go to the hotel and we'll just go in his room and order some room service, you know? And they said, Oh yeah, good idea. Do you reckon? I said, Yeah, yeah, for sure. He said, It's three o'clock in the morning. No, no, no, no, go down to reception. I said, I want to speak to Dion Esther's, put me through to his room. There's all this noise and chaos going on, and music and everything. He's like, Hey man, what's going on? I said, Can we come and have room service in your room? And he goes, Yeah, sure, man, come up. So we sat, I can't remember. I think it was I think it was uh Judge, the lighting guy, uh, and someone else, I can't remember anyway. And we sat in the middle, you know, like when they bring the room service in on a little white thing, a little round table. We were sitting in the middle of this party, an ongoing party, eating room service in Dion Esther's room. Yeah, because I mean you just had to you just had to improvise, you know. Dion had a party in his room every night. Every night. He's the only guy who he probably earned the most money out of the band, and but at the end he he was sitting negative. Lovely guy though. Lovely guy. Well, uh as we do in all these things, Phil, I've totally lost my way. The only thing I would like to say, Ronnie, I I would like to just quickly say to you of going back to Australia, and I don't know if you remember this. Or maybe Phil uh could uh remind us.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, regarding the football, but before that, staying with China, wasn't there some sort of incident on an aeroplane which was uh a bit hair-raising, a bit scary to say the least?
SPEAKER_00:There was, I mean, I think it's been well enough documented. I mean, basically, um, and I'm not gonna mention names on this, obviously, but there was an incident with a member of the band who um how do I put this? Um he had a moment on the plane, yeah, yeah, which when you look back at it, was obviously quite uh scary for a number of people. Um Dave and I had to restrain him. Intervene, yeah. And um I was two seats behind him. Oh, you were okay, yeah. But there was a lot of screaming and shouting and people running up, and I don't know if you remember Harvey running up and down, you know, trying to talk to Chinese stewardess, you know, stewardesses and stewards, um, explaining what's happening. I think they turned the plane back. They took they turned the plane around. Well, I I think they thought that they thought that it was being hijacked. Yeah, basically.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, really.
SPEAKER_00:So the plane got turned around and we had to land back into uh back into the speaking. Uh before we were on the way to Canton, weren't we? Um yeah, so we um and I don't really I I I I have vague memories of it, but apparently Jake tells me Jake told me afterwards, he said, I've never seen a plane go down.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I I I can I can let you into something after all these years. Um, a friend of my sister's his dad worked at Gatwick Airport, and Gatwick Airport, apparently in those days, I don't know if it's still the case, um, used to uh run all the data from all the flights. And if there was ever a problem or a crash or anything, they'd run all the data and they'd come up with a report of what they felt might have been, you know, the the the thing. Anyway, they ran all the data on that particular flight, um, and it should have crashed. Because what happened is that when a when a plane goes down, uh it goes down in stages, but if it goes down too quickly, the quite literally the wings come off and it crashes. But um, this guy got scared and he just went down. If you remember, it was it was literally and I remember it because we were because you were you were restraining him, and I remember yeah, I remember um Pepsi and Shirley. I think Pepsi and Shirley were on it. I think they they were scared.
SPEAKER_00:The one I do remember is Don Airmediately behind him, so yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:They was they were they were very scared, and obviously, and I remember um uh uh Don Air because he was had a real fear of flying, and he was just cursing, he was cursing the guy. So, how can you do that to me? You know, I hate flying. Anyway, um it was the biggest problem was we had a hundred journalists on the plane, so we couldn't really hide it, could we? My family, I don't know about you, but it was sort of uh a plane disaster with wham. And my my family were like, you know, it wasn't like we didn't have mobile phones and all that to get in touch.
SPEAKER_02:Well well, hundreds of this on board, and I've never heard this story before. So I've been uh it's all over, it was all over the time anyway. With flights lined up in the near future, let's move on from flying to something perhaps a bit more cheerful than football. And wasn't it a football match? Um, I think you were playing with Rod you played football with Rod Stewart in Australia, parts of Wham tool.
SPEAKER_01:Do you remember that, Ronnie?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I kind of remember it. I mean, Angie uh Angie was a massive football fan, he was a Queen's Pop Rangers fan. So any given moment he'd be putting his Queenspot Rangers kit on and trying to have a kick around wherever it might be. And I think Rod was touring at the same time as us, so they arranged and Rod staying at the Stebel Townhouse. Yeah, I and Rod was a big football fan, and you know, he had his had his kind of ex had his brothers, yeah. So um, so that match was around. But we played football in China as well. I mean, I don't know if you remember.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. I I wasn't allowed to play in that, and that came on a previous podcast where I told where I told Jake, I'm still mortified that Benny Collins wouldn't let me play in it. But um, I used to play football with with Andrew a lot. If if you remember at the back of the Melbourne venue, anywhere he could find a football, anywhere he had. Anywhere anywhere. But I'll tell you my memory of this, Ronnie, was uh which I I still laugh about, is I came back from the gig to have a shower. I've been working at the gig and had a bit of time off. Um, because on that first world tour, we had a lot of time off. We're in a in we did 11 gigs in six weeks, which is unheard of. Um 13 gigs in six. It was there was loads of time off. Anyway, so I've been at the gig and I wanted to come back for a shower, and I was booked to go back. So um, and the lift opened, Ronnie, and there was you and Andrew in his Queen Scotland Rangers kit. I can't remember what kit you had on, and you were standing and uh and you were standing there with I just found it so funny. And he said, and Andrew said, come on, we we're gonna go and play with Rod Stewart football, go and get changed. I said, But I've got to get back to the venue. He said, Oh, don't worry, I'll cover for you, you know. Don't, you know, bullshit. So I crashed upstairs, I got my football kit on, got down, and within a couple of minutes went into the lobby. I was sitting in a limo opposite Rod Stewart and his brothers, and you and Andrew. And if you remember, we went to a park and put jumpers down and we had a game of football. And as I remember, they kicked the shit out of us. They were really good, actually. They were good, don't they? Brothers were like 50.
SPEAKER_00:Well, they were they they were playing regularly. He was Rob was playing, you know, his team but they a lot.
SPEAKER_01:It was his 40th, he'd just celebrated a couple of weeks before his 40th birthday, and we were all staying at the Seabull Townhouse.
SPEAKER_00:Everyone stayed at the Seaboard Townhouse, everyone did.
SPEAKER_01:It's gone now, apparently.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it went quite a few quite a few years ago, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but uh but how I mean in those days, yeah. I mean, it was nice really because it's quite pure, because they're just memories, got no photos or anything, you've got no recollection of these things because it we just didn't have we didn't, you know, now there's the photos of everything, but we you know, we're just in a park like a normal bloke's having a game of football. It's great.
SPEAKER_00:Sorry, but it was good though. I mean, you know, those there are a lot of good memories from those times. I mean, it would it they again, you know, it was a learning curve for a lot of people, you know, you know, even for the even for Andrew and George, you know, dealing with dealing with you know the fame, the celebrity status, the fans, the press, um, you know, the lack of pro lack of privacy, and it was sort of it was it, you know, it's it's trying, but I think it's still enjoyable.
SPEAKER_01:Andrew told me a funny story. Sorry, I'll just sell this. He told me a funny story about fame and that. He told me two funny stories, actually, about his mum, who was lovely. She used to come out with us as well. Uh, she was a teacher, wasn't she, his mum? And um uh and Albie is dad. Um, he had it, he had, if you remember, he uh his mum used to invite fans in for a cup of tea at their house. Yeah, so Andrew would come home and there'd be all these fans in the house and say, Oh, I just invited them in. Do you remember that? She used to invite them in. Because they're just normal people, you know, bless them. But um, the other one that had Andrew told me was one time he had uh he had a beautiful Italian girlfriend, was um, I can't remember her name, something Philip P Philip Filipello or something. Anyway, she was a lovely girl, and um she was lying, she was she was in, she was staying night at his house, and um, and he caught his dad looking looking, he went to the toilet and he took caught his dad looking in the in the bedroom door, uh talking to himself and lovely, beautiful, beautiful. Like, dad you know it for Albi was lovely as well, and it all those all of the all the parents were lovely, weren't they? Really?
SPEAKER_00:They were. I mean, and you know, for them it was like obviously seeing their child, you know, like the the two boys, both families, seeing the two boys, you know, being that successful, uh, yeah, and enjoying everything that they were doing at the time, you know, it must have been great for them as well. Yeah, really. But they they came and literally toured the world with us, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They were lovely.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Phil, sorry.
SPEAKER_02:Well, yeah, I was gonna say fabulous insights there with uh George and Andrew and also family members. Football's so important, isn't it, for guys on the road. I remember sort of playing on one occasion. Only uh the only occasion I played football with a famous name was Phil Phil Collins, down in Stafford, Bingley Hall, uh, as a student. And uh Harvey Goldsmith used to take us on board to do sort of loading and outloading, and and we had a bit of time on our hands, and it was like, Come on, I'll come outside and play football. And it was Phil Collins and a few guys from the band, so yeah, good stuff, right?
SPEAKER_00:Um you know, it's it's one of those night heart moments that you know you could sort everyone thinks it's such a glamorous thing, touring it's bloody hard work. It is bloody hard work, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And so when you get opportunities to let off a bit of steam, like you know, playing football or whatever it might be, then you know you you take those moments and yeah, valuable time and uh a big escape from you say the hard work, the dedication, and and the concentration on uh especially from a security level. Uh when we've been focusing a lot, you've also worked with names like Duran Duran and uh so many others, but then you sort of uh with your experience, you sort of branched out, didn't you? And so went into sort of um what training, sort of education of uh budding uh security people.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so while I was at ShowSec during the 80s, um we we felt as a company that more needed to be done um in terms of uh educating the people that were working for us and training the people to do the job or whatever. And so we started to develop um training courses. Uh and one of them was you know with the touring personnel. Um and so we I I basically wanted to I introduced a scheme with um and I I spoke to a couple of friends of mine who tour managers and promoters and said, look, you know, you want people to come out on tour with you. Um they need education, they need to be able to you know know what to expect and what to do. And the only way you get that is by actually doing it. And you're not gonna take anyone, you know, you shouldn't be taking anyone with no experience or whatever. So I convinced um some people that uh at our cost that we would provide additional staff security to people to work alongside the current tour people. Um you know, we would pay their salary, we would pay their their hotels effectively free of charge to them. And um and so yeah, we started sending people out effectively training them to work as security on source. Um and it was very successful, I think it was quite successful, and you know, no quite a number of the people that were at shows that could a time. Um and I could there are a lot of names I could go through, but they you know they went on to be really, really good at their jobs and carried on working, you know. I can think Michael Richardson, for example, who I thought on Mariah Carey I don't know, 30 years ago, still works for today. You know, the the you know Paul Dallanegra who worked with me on George, worked with Tom Simply Gred. Um you know, his brother Ricky did the same work with me, works with Carrie Underwood in America. You know, there are a lot of people that went through that kind of um process of of actually working on the road getting an experience and then went on to do their own thing. And I I think it was and in the and you know and then security became you know, and then licensing came in and the security industry and it became you know, more training became a much more important role in terms of how to deal with people, how to deal with IRA customers without without getting physical um and you know, how to de-escalate uh situations. And it it you know, and it it's proved its worth, I think. I think security nowadays, in terms of general security and even um tour security is much more professional and much more regulated, and I think it's benefits to everyone, you know.
SPEAKER_02:From what you're saying there sounds like a strong bond, a loyalty between personal security, uh personnel and some staff imaginary carry and her Yeah, I think I mean, yeah, there's no doubt about it.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I I you know, my own experience with George, um, you do build up. I mean, you can you you know, you you still gotta remember, you know, the the thing about um relationships with people that you work for, yeah, is understanding that there is there is a line that you shouldn't cross when you're working. And you can be friends with people. I mean, I you know, when I look back at my friendship with George, I mean we became friends, you know, you came to my wedding, we used to go to partisan, whatever. But when we were working, we were you know, when I was working for him, it was worth it and that go that that you know friendship put it aside, but it's like there's a line. And I think a lot of the successful guys in the in the touring industry they know where that line is, and so they don't cross it, and that's why they're doing what they're doing with PP.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly, they know that line. So um, yes, regarding George Michael, I mean, uh after his uh farewell concert, well, the WAM farewell concert in Wembley, he went solo. I suppose you could say you went solo because you became his personal security guy for quite a long time. How did that come about?
SPEAKER_00:Well, yeah, so he so yeah, the 86 was the um final gig, yeah. And then he obviously went off to record Faith. Um and no one I mean, I to be fair, no one really knew. I mean, George was always gonna be a big star, but no, I don't think anyone really knew how big a star he was gonna have to become. Um he got American Management in at that point. Um Michael Lippmann and Rob Cahane. Um and you know he recorded Faith and I remember um Faith being released and we had a there was a big um album release party at the Savoy CBS Sony and um they asked me to to uh assist with the security for that. And George was there and he and he mentioned something about going out on tour and he said, Are you up to it? And I was like, Well yeah, I got you know, I I hadn't there were no I hadn't expected to be honest. Um I I'd honestly expected, I think, that uh the Americans were gonna take over because he had American management. I kind of thought you know that would be it. But he you know he personally said to me, So, you know, I'm gonna go be on tour, you know, I'd I'd quite like it if you would be the head of security. And I was like, well, I can definitely have you know handle that.
SPEAKER_02:You can imagine the Americans saying, uh, yeah, we want we don't want Brits doing security, they've got no idea. We we're bringing our big boys, our big team.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think they wanted to bring in, you know, I think to be fair, you know, they they wanted to take over completely in terms of the crew and production and everything. Um but I think but George was quite loyal to people that had worked with even in those days. And so he said, No, you know, I'm gonna, you know, my tour manager's gonna be Jake, and you know, I've worked with him before, and I want Ronnie on as the head of security, and I want this person as my son, and you know, these are the you know, he was quite he was quite adamant about uh key roles even though we all knew you know the Americans knew that it was gonna be a big American tour, and it was a big American tour. Um so yeah, so you know, come to start a fave tour, I think which is in Japan if I remember rightly. Um that was how right that's that's uh that was my in-road to uh long career with him.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, amazing, amazing. How was that in America then with the sort of home ground of the senior management, his managers?
SPEAKER_00:Fine. I mean, you to be fair, I mean I got on really well with the management near you know they were they were they were quite easy again. I think they they kind of left people to get on and do their jobs. Um you know, once the tour was up and running, so we once we'd done all the rehearsals and all the you know, most of the kinks for the show are were out were taken care of in terms of production-wise and whatever. Um obviously uh from a security point of view, we have very little say in any of that. That's not true. Um but once everything was up and running, the management were really kind of like just okay about stuff, they were like, like, just tell us what we need to do, where we need to be, and what time we need to be there. And and if and I always say to them, so like, you know, again, you know, the rule is if you're not there when we're ready to leave, then you're gonna get left behind. And we didn't. Um but they were fine, America. You know, I got on really well with them in the end, you know, they they were okay. And I doubt that some people had you know more to deal with them. I mean, I think tour management production people had more to deal with management in that respect, and you know, issues around staging, sound lights, sure.
SPEAKER_01:So, Russell, were you involved in that uh tour as well? Well, I I I should have been on it really. Jake offered me stage manager for that. And uh I worked with George quite a bit then, obviously with Wham because what happened was uh halfway through the touring with Wham, um Kem Watts left, if you remember, and I took over his role. Um, you know, there was a lot of personal looking after George at the side of the stage. I was doing lots of other tasks as well. And for Wham the final, I was assistant production manager. And um Jake, uh we we it's no secret, and we laughed about it with Steve Martin. On, you know, Jake was very frugal, typical Scotsman with the money, and uh me but me being an ambitious young upstart, and I was busy on some other things, but I really wanted to do the Faith Tour um because it's sort of become part of my life for three and a half years, you know, the the wham thing and all that. And I was and I had, I don't know if you remember, and I don't know whether you're on it. I don't remember you being on it, but I Jake wasn't available, and Siobhan, um who ran who is his personal assistant, Siobhan Bailey Blessers, no longer with us as well. Um she uh she called me and said, Jake can't do this. Um he's doing this AIDS benefit at Wembley. Mel Bush was promoting it, and um uh we need to put a band together, we need to get everyone together. There's no money because it's obviously it's a bit like live aid. Um I said, sure, yeah, I'd love to do it, no problem. So we rehearsed at Nomas Studios, um, and uh we put the band together, rehearsed at Nomas Studios, and ended up uh doing it. But I don't remember, were you on that? Which one was that? Um it was the AIDS benefit, it was between Wham the final and the faith tour. Was it for some reason Jake wasn't available who's out was it like the Wembley?
SPEAKER_00:Was that the Wembley thing?
SPEAKER_01:Wembley Arena Arena with Princess Diana. No, that no, uh well, I don't know if she was there, I didn't see her. Um, I mean there was yeah, I mean, there was Elton played, and he just had his throat operation and he played, I remember.
SPEAKER_00:And uh yeah, we did quite a few of those sort of benefits and and one-off events.
SPEAKER_01:What I remember was it was an absolute pleasure to do it. I'd no problem because I'd earned a living. I bought my first house on the back of working for George and and Andrew, um, and very grateful of that and love working with them, knew all the people, knew with the band. Um, and uh, but at the end of it, it was really sweet because um, and I remember having some really deep conversations with George about the AIDS thing, safe sex thing. And you know, George, when he when he was talking to you seriously, those brown eyes, he looked straight into you, didn't he? You know, and I I'll never forget that. And we had some very sort of adult conversations, which we don't very often do on the road. Um, and uh at the end of it, Siobhan came around with all these, she came around with these envelopes and said, Can you give this to the band? There's one for you as well. And George felt very awkward that he'd asked everybody to work for nothing, which we all agreed to do. But he she said, Oh, he just came in the office and said, Can you just draw out all this money? And it was a lot of money, you know. Um that's exactly what yeah, but he, you know, he he didn't he didn't want to give it to us, he just got Siobhan to do it. And uh I remember that. And um I I remember that uh with fondness because I had some very nice conversations with him about these things and some very funny moments as well. Like I used to do the quick. Change with him. And I remember wham the final uh where we were under the stage and the band were playing after Young Guns. The band were playing, I can't remember what the tune was they were playing, and they just kept playing. And you remember they used to wear those suede and we couldn't get his bloody pants off. And there was there was there was Yoda, Melanie, and myself pulling George's pants down and he's got this G string on and sweating, you know, and and we all just got the giggles. And the band are playing there's 80,000 or whatever there were, and we couldn't get these blue chats off. And I remember saying to George, I said, George, if the sun photographer sticks his head around the corner now, we're we're in trouble. But you know, moments like that you remember and you cherish, and I'm sure you've got loads of them. But um, yeah, it's uh it was it was really a pleasure to work with a guy in that way. But that was the one that and I don't think it had any scoochie. But sorry, sorry, there is one other thing as well, which George was very gracious about. Um, I had a very, and it comes up in a lot of the podcasts. I worked a lot with John Henry's, um, who used to provide the equipment. I I started with John Henry's, and uh I sort of felt I owed John Henry some favor, and he kept saying to me, and every man and his dog rehearsed at John Henry's, but George had never been in there. And he said, he said, he said, look, he said, can you get George to come in? He said, I'd love him to come in, you know. I said, I can't just ask George to come in. Anyway, there was an opportunity, which I sort of manufactured, which was very unprofessional, really, but I did it because I've, you know, I love John Henry and uh I felt I owed him a bit. And um, George needed to uh uh program the drum machine for um everything she wants for this aid of for this AIDS benefit thing. And he needed a little studio, and um, so I told John Henry, I said, I'll bring George in, he give us one of his little um demo studios, you know, to do this thing. And he said, Oh, it's all booked up. He said, But I can give you the control room. And I mean, I put him in this control room, and George was very gracious. I mean, it was nothing like you know, it wasn't Abbey Road Studios, but he came and I remember afterwards sitting in the canteen at John Henry's and he met John Henry and all that. And um, I remember talking to him about what parent, you know, like when he was younger and his parents not taking him seriously about wanting to be a pop star. And he said, I just kept at it and all that. And I said, Well, I I was in a band, but I didn't take it seriously. He said, Yeah, exactly, it was a bit of fun. But for for me, it I was driven and I had a really good conversation with the guy, you know. Um but he had his moments when when he could just level with you, and he had his moments when he's incredibly professional. Um, and uh and he knew what he wanted. That was the thing. He really knew what he wanted.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, but I think throughout his career, he knew exactly what he wanted.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, very driven. Uh, but not in a nasty way, you know, like some are driven in a nasty way, but he was driven, he knew what he was doing, um, he knew what uh what path he wanted to take, and uh yeah, ultimate respect for that. Sorry, again, uh Phil.
SPEAKER_02:So, yeah, I mean you you you had that tricky moment uh with George trying to get his pants off. He said, Good job, the sudden uh a photographer wasn't around. So, Ronnie, I mean, over your 30 years of being so close to this what absolute huge, huge megastar. There must have been some well tricky moments and some very funny ones uh during that period of 30 years or so. Can you give us some uh indication of some of those uh perhaps uh funny moments? And funny moments, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:There are a lot of funny moments. I think um it's fun that springs tomorrow. So we I think we were in it was on the Fave Tour, we were in Toronto and uh we had a dine, we'd had a we'd had a night off and we'd been out to dinner and we there was a famous club in Toronto, I can't remember the name of it at the time. And George said, Oh you know, let's go to we we should do it, we should go to the club. I was like, okay, so we we organized it all and off we all went. Jake was with us. I had three security guys with me. Um my best friend Nigel and Jason. Um and two of us. Oh, Nigel, yeah, Nigel Brown. And off we went to this club, about eight of us, I guess. It must have been about eight of us anyway. And we're in the club and it's all fine. And there was obviously, you know, Jake is George Michael, everyone knows he is, and they're making a big fuss of him, and uh girls are all trying to get close to him when he's on the dance floor and whatever. Anyway, at one point, he gets he says, I'm just gonna go to the toilet. So I said to Nigel, you better follow him just in case you know, like just you know, so they go in and apparently he's standing here doing his doing what you do, and a guy next to him says and and he knows who he is, and the guy next to him says to his mate, I don't know what the fuck's the you know, what the fucking big deal about this George Michael bloke being in here, all the girls are running around, like what's he got that I haven't got? And George looks over him and says, I think there's about 20 million dollars. Now that could have gone the wrong way, absolutely, you know, the guy could have got ri the guy just laughed and just said, Fair play, mate, off he went. Good one, and that is George. You know, he he he could take the you know, he could he could give it as good as he got.
SPEAKER_01:What about the one on YouTube? That you could that's so funny. And George is the funny side of it.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, you were like trying to shoe the guy, say, Yeah, come on, and he was saying that's the classic. That I mean, we we were doing the opening night at Wembley Stadium, the first ever at the news stadium, and we'd been to rehearsals, Sanche. And because George lived in Highgate, he uh said, Well, I'm not gonna stay here all day. We might as well go, you know, we'll go high later. And so I'd spoken to um we'd gone in underneath um into the underground um part of Wembley Stadium where the dressing rooms are, and when we were leaving, um our our security people said, right, you need to you know leave this way when you come back, you come back in the same way. Like, okay, fine, so all good and gone. What happened in the meantime was that there was a change of staff and the security that were man in that entry point were replaced by the car park people weren't given the information that we were coming. So when we turn back up, and the guy looks at says, No, you can't come in this way. And I said, you know, I showed him my pass, and he's like, you know, the classic uh that's not George Michael, I'd know him a mile away thing. But David, George's friend at the time was filming everything, and um he, you know, George's he thought it was just the funniest. So funny I'm so glad that was that was documented because that's hilarious. Yeah, and people still think it was set up, and it wasn't. I can assure you 100% it wasn't set up, it was completely completely uh, you know, as it happened. Um, but yeah, that was a that was quite a funny moment. But there are many, you know, there are there are things like that. I mean, I there was one incident I can remember. I mean we were in again, we were in um and this is more to do with his management and George, you know, we were out in um I think it was Austin in Texas, and again we'd gone out for a night out. We had a day off, so we went out for dinner and we were in this restaurant bar place, and um we're sitting there, and again, people recognize they know who he is, and you know, you can see the you know the the words going around the people and the pointing of fingers and whatever. And um this girl comes over and she says, Can I get an autograph? And I said to her, Look, you can, but can you wait until we finish dinner? And when we leave him, he'll happily sign, you know. And she said, Yeah, okay, that's fine anyway. She went back to the bar and she's with a guy. And the guy obviously took it the wrong way. And uh the next thing I know, he's leaning against the gut the the um the bar and he moves his jacket on on the side of his uh trousers, he's got a gun on a holster. Oh so Rob, the manager looks at me and says, Ronnie, the guy down here, he's got a gun. And I said to him, I can see that, Rob. He said, What are we gonna do about it? I said, It's still in its holster, nothing to worry about. What oh dear, he's like Mr. Cool Ronnie, but he just laughed, he always laughed and says, I'm gonna go. And he got up and went over and signed her autograph for it. One of those, you know, there's there's just some fun.
SPEAKER_01:Um is this just a myth? But they're going back to the Wham days in Miami. Was I don't know if you were there or maybe Dave Mulder, maybe it's just a myth, maybe it's not true. Uh, but I heard that a girl got a one of these little mini guns out at the bar and and and said I could shoot George Michael and I'd be famous, something like that. Was that were you there or maybe it was Dave Mulder?
SPEAKER_00:I've been there. I mean, I don't I honestly don't remember that one at all.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, she was sort of like drunk or coked out of the head, you know.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, yeah, you know, we have we we you know, everybody over the we never be you know, it's interesting because they're obviously going back to sort of security issues and and stuff with people like is that 99.9% of the people don't want to cause you any harm. No, yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_01:They're fans, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:They're fans, they want to see you, they want to hear you, whatever. They they might scream a lot and they would like to grab hold of you and touch you and kiss you and whatever. Um and obviously they're you know, then you're gonna get a you know deranged or lunatic type thing. You know, we've we've seen that happen over the years, you know, John Lennon famously and um so you kinda you know you have to take threats seriously. I mean, I've given I you know I can remember a couple of times, you know, especially not so much in the UK, but uh in America we had a couple of uh threats where you know FBI might have got involved and spoke to us about something um and told us what they were doing to try and alleviate any issues. Um local police, you know. I remember going into Kentucky in Lexington, Lexington, Kentucky once and being met by a chief of police as we got off the plane who said he'd had some issues with uh a member of you know supposedly fan um who'd been making some threats and stuff. And uh, you know, you rely at that point, you kind of rely on on them to be able to deal with that sort of thing. You know, what are you gonna do? You can't, you know, physically search 12,000 people coming into arena to see if they've got a weapon up. So you have to rely on on um on local law enforcement, local security and stuff like that. But generally, you don't have you know, generally it's not it's not um physical uh threats to to worry about with with bands like Durand, Wham, you know, Spandal, back in those days in the 80s, it was it was it was just about uh uncontrolled fan frenzy. You know, um and people uh what and people would get hurt, you know, like if you didn't have um if you if you hadn't planned properly, people get hurt, you know. We've seen that in happens and people just you know uncontrolled, they rush the stage, you know, the barriers aren't done properly. Um, you know, it's it it can be a dangerous situation when you've got thousands of people trying to, you know, attending. Of course.
SPEAKER_02:So, Ronnie, a fascinating insight to uh your role and your part in in the WhamTors and so many others, and uh a fascinating insight into George Michael himself, you know, a person who's been greatly missed, and someone who you know left the world of music far too young. So, just final note, really, on this, and I mean we could talk for a long, long time. Being so close to George over that period, and you've given us a lot of your memories. What would be your very special lasting memory of George Michael?
SPEAKER_00:Um I think generally he was a really really nice person. He was a very genuine person. Um he was a very generous person. I mean, it was been crude over the you know since his death. Um but he was just generally a very nice person. You know, he and I never had a crossword in the 30 odd years that we were I worked with him. Um I think I always listened to his opinions about what he wanted when he comes when it George was you know, he was never one for wanting um overt security. Um he wanted to leave, you know, so in some, you know, in a lot of ways when he when he lived in London, he wanted to be as uh normal as possible, you know. When he lived in Highgate, he would go to local restaurants and pubs and whatever. Um but he understood the need um when he would be if he was attending an event uh obviously when he was on his own concert tours and stuff like that. You know, he he he accepted that that's a part of touring that you have to have these things in place. Otherwise, you know, like you know um but yeah, just I think just generally it was a really nice it was a pleasure to work for. I mean, I you know, I I and as I say, we never had a crossword, we we we got on really well, we became friends, but work was work, and we both accepted that you know when we were working, we were working. Once we were finished working, that's a whole different ball, but you know, we were sitting, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Going by going by what you just said there, a pleasure to work with. You can't ask for anything else, can you? You can't work ask for any more, can you? Fabulous, fabulous.
SPEAKER_01:I think that's I think that's what um I mean Jake Duncan more or less said the same thing. Tour manager, I mean, you you you obviously work with Jake a lot, and um, and I work with Jake a lot as well. And we've become we we stayed, remained friends um all through the years, but um uh he said exactly the same thing, Ronnie. And uh I know your tribute there to George is you know a bit hard for you because you really were quite close to him for so many years, but uh yeah, but sadly lost um you know to the world. And another another one, I don't want to be too doom and groom to finish our podcast, but another one you mentioned, um who was obviously a friend of yours, and I really enjoyed his company because we had a we had a passion for football as well, was uh Nigel uh Brown. Um, and uh, you know, we've we've lost too many of our friends and colleagues over the years, haven't we?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. I mean, Nigel sadly, you know, he that was a tragic accident in um on the Eric Clapton tour and it was a crash.
SPEAKER_01:Helicopter crash, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But um Nigel and I worked together on on with George and and and on many other things, and he worked on Simply Red and he worked on the colt and all uh also lovely guy. Great, lovely guy.
SPEAKER_02:So so Ronnie, what are you doing these days? What have you been doing? I mean, touring with other people. I heard you've had a chauffeur company going. Is that still gay?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I mean, I I've had a bit of a varied career when you know I I I had a chauffeur business for uh many years, you know. When George kind of gave up touring, I I wasn't particularly looking to work with too many other people at the time, so I'd have a chauffeur company. Um but recently in the last I mean I did I worked with Lana Del Rey uh on her first couple of tours, which was uh she was she's she's an interesting person, she's a very, very talented uh young lady. Um very talented, a lot very a bit misunderstood, I think, but you know, really, really talented. Um and I worked with Jua Lipa um recently. I've known Juan for 10 years, who's again extremely talented and extremely nice um and a pleasure to work for. Uh but now I've I've retired from my touring role. I've hung my touring hat up. I um like us all.
SPEAKER_01:Like us all. Like us all Steve Martin, we're all like, no, can't do that anymore.
SPEAKER_00:It's young, it's a young, not say young man, it's a young person saying. Um now I just can't I I've got a few clients that I work with uh in terms of driving, um Jerby and one and uh Florence Welsh and a couple of other people just to keep my keep me off the goal calls as I don't think what's your handicap? Me will be my handicap.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, like it.
SPEAKER_01:Ronnie, Ronnie, I just wanted to ask you quickly because I uh you're a wealth of information. Um you remember the remember Bob Tame who used to drive. Is he I mean, is he with us still?
SPEAKER_00:I don't know. Bob was a cab driver, a London cab driver. I've got some great stories with him on another podcast. I mean, yeah, because he we with Jake we we on that tour, we we Jake had hired one of those sort of American Dodge Ram type mini buster driver. I mean, he was just he was just the funniest.
SPEAKER_01:What a character. So for for our viewers and listeners, Bob Tamer's an East End uh I mean he wouldn't even mind me saying it. It was a bit he was just a likable rogue, really. I mean, he tried to sell me a dodgy car from his friends in the which I luckily was uh taught myself out of. But I mean, he used to talk he told me about all his antics, you know, growing up and you know, sitting with R Reggie and Ronnie Cray having a drink with them and stuff, but you know, he was a lovely guy, and he was he was the chauffeur, he was George's chauffeur for a while, wasn't he?
SPEAKER_00:The boys and that um big tour through the the 1980s.
SPEAKER_01:I I wondered whether he came from you, though. That's what I was gonna ask.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I think Jake found him, if I remember right. I can't remember Harry to that, but we all we all love Bob. He was yeah, he I mean, and he literally, you know, he'd be swearing, effing and blinding at everyone in the van, you know, especially if I when when Andrew and his mates were in the van and they would just kick off and start fighting each other, and he'd slam the brakes on and like jump in the back, you know. Um but yeah, he was he was a real character, really.
SPEAKER_01:Sadly, we have to we have to come to an end, don't we, Phil?
SPEAKER_02:Yes, yes. I mean, uh what what a fascinating insight. And as I started off, we're sort of traveling around the world in terms of rock and roll, and today, insights into fan behaviour in Japan and China. I mean, it's we're getting broader and broader. It's fascinating insights. And Ronnie, so many uh big thanks to you for joining us and all those recollections and uh of your experiences and uh different angles of work, professionalism in the world of rock and roll. So, Ronnie, thank you very much indeed for joining us. Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_01:Uh thanks, Ronnie. Good to see you, buddy. Yeah, take care.
SPEAKER_02:And you take care. That's it. Thanks, Ross. Another great one here on our podcast series. I'm looking forward to the next one. We'll keep you in suspense to what that one might be, but makes everything you're in tune on Spotify, Apple, Deezer, and of course, YouTube. Bye for now.