Radical Candor In Nursing: Honesty, Purpose, And Psychological Safety

What if the bravest thing you could do for a colleague—and a patient—was to tell the truth with love? That’s the heartbeat of this conversation on radical candor in nursing: a clear, compassionate approach to feedback that protects patients, strengthens teams, and helps each of us grow without shame. We open with the lioness—loyalty, protection, purpose—and follow that thread into the realities of modern care: defensiveness, burnout, and the pressure to be perfect. Then we go deeper, exploring the difference between identity and performance, and how leaders can make honesty feel safe, not sharp.

Rose shares how small, “boring” tasks carry life-size meaning when we explain the why. A simple whiteboard becomes a lifeline for communication, orientation, and dignity. Failure becomes normal when we admit what we’ve all stumbled on, from EKG tests to hectic handoffs. And calling becomes clearer when we match people to their soil—ER, ICU, oncology, home health, education—rather than judging a fish for not flying. We also challenge the habit of plucking star bedside nurses into leadership without development, replacing urgency with deliberate growth to protect both people and culture.

You’ll hear a pivotal story: a charge nurse asking a specialist to leave after undermining an ER physician in front of a frightened patient. It’s a line in the sand that puts trust first and models what psychological safety looks like in real time. We wrap with kintsugi, the art of mending with gold, as a way to see our careers and our teams—broken in places, yes, but made stronger and more beautiful by the seams of hard-won truth.

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Transcript

Welcome And Rose’s Story

SPEAKER_03 0:00

I was gonna say commentary.

SPEAKER_04 0:04

I literally think that's exactly what I tell people like a failure all the time. Nursing will break you in ways that you never knew you could be taken apart, and it will put you back together in a way you never knew you needed.

SPEAKER_03 0:33

Hi friends, I'm Jennifer Eddings, and welcome to the Call It Collective, a space where we talk about everything from beautiful to brutal and everything in between, from life and in healthcare. Today I am honored to have Rose Reese with me. She is probably one of the more beautiful lights that I've ever met. We have worked side by side. We have worked in different areas, but always seem to have the same vision and the same mission to our own personal history. So before I get started, will you just share with us a little bit about yourself?

The Lioness: Purpose And Protection

SPEAKER_04 1:10

Oh, hi. My name is Rose Reese, and I've been a nurse 20 years. I've worked in a hospital for 25. Um, I am a mother and a wife. I am a daughter and a child of God. And I'm super excited to be on your show today.

SPEAKER_03 1:26

You are so, you were so kind. And I love how you said, I'm a mother, I'm a child of God, I'm a daughter, I am everything because all of those things are so important. And I and I love you for that. Now, prior to us even starting the filming today, you just asked me a second ago about my tattoo right here on the lioness. I did. You did. And I love that you asked me. It's my favorite tattoo by far. Um, and people often assume I'm a Leo because of the lion, which I'm not. I'm an Aries, so whatever. But tell me why you are connected to the lioness, because you told me it was your spirit animal.

SPEAKER_04 2:02

Yeah, the lioness is my spirit animal, and it is because the lioness represents loyalty, it represents protecting her tribe. It protects, as we talked about, you know, we are not meant to be men. We are meant to serve our own purpose and to be a support of the men and to step into the roles that God has for us. And there is a power in that that we often as women don't step into naturally. We're hesitant. Um, and it's such a beauty, you know, it really connects you to uh parenthood or being a nurse, where we really have a desire to step in when people are uh vulnerable and need that extra protection. I agree, right? I completely agree.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

Yeah. So when we talked about it, I was like, whoa, I have a whole like poem about it and exactly what you just said that we're so busy trying to prove that we can do everything men can do. Right. But that that's not what we are created for. We are created to do everything men cannot do.

SPEAKER_04 3:12

Well, and here's the thing: just because we can do it, do we thrive in that space? No, there's plenty of things I can do.

Defining Radical Candor In Healthcare

SPEAKER_03 3:20

Yeah. That doesn't mean I'm supposed to do though. Amen. I don't want to take off the trash. I'm gonna be really honest with you. I don't want to do that. No, I will, but I don't want to. I'm I'm totally capable. Completely capable. Capable isn't the question, it's the design. I love that so much. Okay, so we completely got off track real quick, which is fine because we're just figuring this out as we go. I when I asked you to be a guest on the show, I said, What would you like to speak about? And you were like, I've got this, I've got this, I've got this, I've got this. I'm like, Yeah, she does, because you have so much depth and experience and I love it so much. But what we did kind of narrow in on is the um radical candor. So we're gonna just kind of we're gonna go on that route. So my very first question would be for you. When you hear the phrase radical candor in nursing, what does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_04 4:12

Well, radical candor is a book that I read. It is written by uh Kimberly Scott. She actually has an updated version, but it is absolutely the importance of being honest in the work that we do. Um, we work in an industry where we truly touch people's lives, and the level of excellence and uh impact that we have is so important. And if we can't just be radically candid about where we are, how do we improve? There has to be um a removal of the good and bad, and just a focus on the honest. Because how do we ever get better if we're not really sure of where we're starting? And that's something in healthcare. I think because we're so passionate in general, we most nurses really feel like it's a calling. And so there's a lot of emotions and tied up with that. And so there is this level of defensiveness because when you say we're not doing something right at work, we instantly take that as we're not doing a good job as women, right? I mean, healthcare is still mostly women. We've got, you know, more male nurses than we ever had. And love that you guys are there. Thank you for joining. Uh button. It definitely evens out the estrogen for sure. And need we appreciate them for sure. Absolutely. Love my male, like love my male healthcare providers in general in every area that they're in. Yeah. But the truth is it is a feminine dominated profession. It is what it is. Yeah, it's true. For sure. It's totally dominated by women, and we often forget that we also have to take away the emotion and the passion and the purpose that we feel in order to be honest about where we are, right? We need to be honest about where we are so that we can chase it passionately. Wait, so like unpack that a little bit for me.

SPEAKER_03 6:16

So you were saying, you were saying we should take away the emotion.

SPEAKER_04 6:21

When, okay, so ooh, how to explain this well. Not that we take away the emotion, but we take away the defensiveness. Okay. Often when we're bringing light to dark areas, because we do do it with passion, because we feel like it's our purpose, because every single healthcare worker comes in to do an excellent job every day. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:42

No one signs up for this to be a shit person.

SPEAKER_04 6:45

No, and but what we also forget though is like every day we're only what you're asked to do is bring your best self. And your best self changes because we're human. It does. And it depends on how rested we are and how well fed we are, and if we're feeling healthy, or if we're fighting a cold, or are we fighting cancer, or you know, are we coming to work and we're losing our home? Or we're struggling with divorce, or, you know, there's all of these things that we bring to work with us as human and as humans, not just as women, and I'm sure the men struggle with this too. But I think more uniquely as women, we really struggle with it. And so when you start speaking about areas of improvement, when you start talking about areas where you're not doing your best work, that can become very vulnerable and hard to have that conversation without the emotion. Because we take it so personally.

SPEAKER_03 7:47

We do absolutely tie our own worth to it. How well we do it work.

SPEAKER_04 7:53

Absolutely. And so that is where this concept of radical candor, where we're really being radically candid because we love you so much, we don't want you to fail. Yeah, because I love you enough to not allow you to do it wrong, because I love you enough to do the hard work of being candid. Yeah, I could sit here and tell you, oh, you're doing a great job, and I could allow you to continue to do it wrong.

SPEAKER_03 8:19

How's that helping me?

Emotion, Defensiveness, And Honest Feedback

SPEAKER_04 8:20

It's not, it's not. And then exactly we how is that growing a work environment that is healthy or inclusive, or where we're really striving to step into our purpose because we can't step into our purpose if we're not really clear on where we're at. Right? Like we have to have that honest, non-judgmental, and that's where people miss. And that's why I love the book Radical Candor, because the radical candor is about being honest with love. Yeah. I'm choosing to be radically candid and radically honest and vulnerable in such a space that is challenging and connected to so much emotion and honestly connected to somebody's well-being. For sure. The practice that we work in is not the same as if you worked in a bank. If I worked in a bank and I got an answer wrong, I could Google it. I could probably go back in and fix it.

SPEAKER_03 9:22

And what happens if you get an answer wrong in healthcare?

SPEAKER_04 9:24

Exactly. I'm infecting somebody's life. And so that weight holds so much more. Yet, as seasoned nurses, we often don't have the strength or the confidence to have those hard conversations in a way that isn't eating our young, but is in a way of, hey, I want you to be good. And in order for you to be good, we have to be honest about where you're at. And the same is for me. Yeah. You know, I am still learning. I might be 20 years in. Yes. I still get it wrong. Yeah. And the truth is, everything I do very well now, I'm once really fucked up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:07

One of the things I think, and I think I think being radically candid is a gift to other people. The nurses coming in behind us right now. I'll tell you, this is what I fucked up. This is what I did wrong, right? Or like I talk about during orientation, I talk about the EKG test so often. Okay. Horrible test. Horrible. It's it's horrible. It doesn't matter. A lot of a lot of us will lie and say we passed it. 30% fail that EKG test in the first try. No doubt about it. But nobody wants to say that. Right. And when I when I took it, and I told my kids, I'm like, do you want to know who failed their EKG test the first time? I did. I did. And but did I? But no one said that in my cohort. Everyone was like, oh, I passed the test. I passed a test. And when we showed up for the retake, they're all there. 30%.

SPEAKER_04 11:06

For sure. So here's my question. How if we can't be radically candid about things like that? How are we being honest in a high, reliable workspace? How are we saying, oh my gosh, I think you may have contaminated the tip of that foley? We might need a new one. If I can't tell you, hey, you didn't update your whiteboard, if you're not used to standing in a place where honesty is presented to you in a way that it isn't judgmental, which is so that's the challenge, is how can you provide the feedback?

SPEAKER_03 11:40

I was just gonna say that word. That that's that's the word that makes so many of our newer nurses, and it's just the truth. Right. Feedback's hard. A hundred percent, especially for our younger ones. And I don't care what anyone says, it's just the truth. They the feedback feels like I could say, hey, you didn't update your whiteboard. What what if someone says that to me, what I might hear is you're a horrible nurse. Right. That's what I hear. It's not what was said. And I just think there's such a beautiful gift in a leader such as yourself, being open and honest, because I know your intention is to help me grow, not to diminish me, not to put me down. You want me to succeed. And how do we, how do we help our younger ones be comfortable with that feedback? Right. Because it's hard.

SPEAKER_04 12:38

Well, not just that, but I think we work in a society or we live in a society that's so changing. You know, now we don't tell our kids when they're not doing well historically.

SPEAKER_03 12:48

Hi friends, Jennifer Eddings here, the heart behind the Call Light Collective. And I've been teasing this podcast for several weeks, months even. I have desired to create a safe place for all of us to come as we are and to talk about what really is going on. The real, the honest, the raw. And I want you to help shape it. Do you have a story that you've just been dying to tell? Have you learned a truth or a lesson that you think needs to be shared? Are you navigating a struggle? Do you want feedback on a particular situation? Or do you just want to know that you're not alone? We all have these moments and these thoughts, guys. So go ahead and email me at ComeFormeasures24 at gmail.com. Please make sure to include a phone number, your full name, and any social media handles that we should know about. I cannot wait to hear from you. Together, we're just walking each other home one conversation at a time. All my love, all my light. This is the call light. I do. No, I mean I do too.

SPEAKER_04 13:49

I mean, my kids have an ER nurse as a mom, so they they know.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

Like I They tell me when I'm not doing well either. And I love it.

Normalizing Failure And Learning

SPEAKER_04 13:57

And they I'm like, you can't bullshit a bullshitter. It's literally my job. I've literally played this game. Right. Yeah. It's my job to know who needs urgency when they come into the ED. And I need to be able to have the assessment skill. And that's a skill I've been, you know, really fine-tuning over the years. It doesn't just only extend to nursing. So if we're gonna be in and really radical candor really is in every aspect of your life, it's no different than teaching your kids to fish versus giving them a fish. That is literally that's what it is. And we and we forget that that you know, I can come in as a leader and I can just update your whiteboard for sure. Or I could come in and tell you the value of the whiteboard. Do you know that during COVID, we learned that this whiteboard was a communication tool that our our patients were sending to their family members so that it felt inclusive. This is really how we can reorient our patients to what we're doing today when so often it feels like we're doing nothing. Yeah. You know, this is truly a gift that we not just give to the patient, but we give to each other because so often we are met with simple tasks throughout the day, but we don't share those tasks. So just imagine if it was up on that whiteboard, it said patient prefers lights turned down low. Now every time a person leaves that room, they can say, Oh, I see you like your lights down low. Would you like your lights off? I'll do that for you.

SPEAKER_03 15:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:25

They feel heard, they feel validated, the patient does. And now every single caregiver who walks in that room, whether or not they've been communicated by with or by that nurse, they know exactly what that patient needs. And it simply just came from the whiteboard.

SPEAKER_03 15:42

Literally.

SPEAKER_04 15:43

And so often, as leaders, what I see leaders do is they say, Your whiteboard's not updated. And they give no value to why we want the whiteboard updated. And that's where the radical candor comes in. That's where that follow through comes in. Like, not only am I gonna tell you, hey, your whiteboard's not updated, I'm gonna tell you the value of the whiteboard.

SPEAKER_03 16:06

It's not just checking a box, it's not checking a box. It's really not.

SPEAKER_04 16:10

It's it's really 100% the intention behind that. It's the experience, it's the intention behind that.

SPEAKER_03 16:17

Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 16:19

That's really what it is. And what a simple thing that really highlights how we can do that in every aspect. Why we chart our eyes and o's a certain way, why we um, you know, just do anything in our we do it so that we're setting not just ourselves up, but our patients up for better understanding, for success, for improvement, for um wholeness when they're outside of our building.

SPEAKER_03 16:47

Let me ask you a question. I think, and I I'm gonna say this. How often have you been asked what your why is?

SPEAKER_04 16:54

Oh my gosh, plenty.

SPEAKER_03 16:55

So many. Yeah. And I challenge that because I could go on and on and on about my why. But I ask myself, what why not? Like, why wouldn't someone want to come in here and do the work that we do? Oh, that's a great question. And I and I'm just curious what your answer to that, like what do you think separates those of us that answer the call to health care, to service, to um to love and care. What what's what does separate that from the ones that maybe never feel it or never feel pulled to go into healthcare?

SPEAKER_04 17:38

Oh gosh, that is a lot to unpack.

SPEAKER_03 17:40

That's a lot. I apologize.

SPEAKER_04 17:42

Um I sort of you know, my why is definitely I want to give a hospital, no, excuse me. I want to give a community a hospital that they can trust. Yeah. So in order to unpack that, you have to create a space that team members want to live in and be in and serve in.

SPEAKER_03 18:01

I think my mind just has a hard time, like because it's such a natural, like for you and I.

SPEAKER_04 18:09

Yeah. Natural.

SPEAKER_03 18:10

For you and I, we want, like, we we will run to a cool problem, right? We're wired differently. Yes. And I I think I have a hard time wrapping my head around someone that wouldn't run to the but there's different.

SPEAKER_04 18:25

So here's the thing: there are people in the world, right, who need to run to it, and there are people who need to be available for after.

SPEAKER_03 18:34

Almost like a team A and team B for hurricane.

Feedback Culture And Younger Nurses

SPEAKER_04 18:38

So everyone isn't designed to run to.

SPEAKER_03 18:42

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 18:43

That's the calling. The calling is we are truly hardwired differently. And that is why people who don't have the call to run to often struggle in nursing. And you see that they have a hard time in the profession or in maybe the specialty that they picked, and they will call themselves a bad nurse, or they will allow themselves to feel like they aren't good enough, or they will, you know, just very frankly and very sadly allow others to not make them feel good enough. Yeah. When the truth is that they're not planted where they're supposed to bloom. And what we need to do is find them where they need to go and not berate them for where they are.

SPEAKER_03 19:28

I love that. And nursing school, I can I could, I, I don't remember her name. Um, but Dr. Christy Campo is one of my professors for my very first semester of nursing school. And we were like two day two on clinical. Actually, I it doesn't matter where you where you might go. Yeah, that's awesome. That's right. And um, this and I, this girl, she walks up to our professor and she says, you know what, this isn't for me. She knew in that moment this is not where she's supposed to be. And in the at that time, I was like, wow, like because in my mind, I I'm in my own story, my own journey of how much it took for me to get to where we were. But her story is not my story.

SPEAKER_02 20:12

Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:13

And when I can go back and look at that, what a gift she gave to acknowledge this isn't my space. Right. This is for you guys. And I love that for you. But I'm gonna bow out because I'm not made for this. And it wasn't a sign of weakness, it wasn't a we're better than she is, she's better than we are. It's just different.

SPEAKER_04 20:35

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_03 20:36

And if you I remember this phrase, if you judge a, I'm gonna say it wrong. If you judge a fish by its ability to fly. No, I was gonna say climate treat. Same concept, same concept.

SPEAKER_04 20:48

I almost just said I literally that is exactly what I tell people. I feel like a failure all the time. If you judge a fish on its ability to fly, it will never be successful. Never. And it was never meant to fly. That's not what it's made to do. And how do you're not gonna be successful in a space you weren't made for? Amen. And I think what we have a tendency to do in healthcare is to tell people that they're not good or they don't meet the mark when really what we need to do is create a space for them to be vulnerable and say, hey, you might not be an ICU nurse. Correct. You might not be an ER nurse. Yeah, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't be an excellent oncology nurse or home health nurse or risk management or risk management or anything. I mean, the truth of the matter is I would never want to do oncology. I would fall in love with those patients and it would really break who I was. I was made to be in the space of emergency. I like to like trauma, I like intensive care. I of every age. I've done NICU, I've done um pediatric ER, I've done adult.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

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SPEAKER_03 22:05

I see that is very, it's very uh profound what you just said though, in a couple different statements. You are an ER nurse, and you said you couldn't do oncology because you'll fall in love with them. Right. But that's how you protect yourself 100% by staying in ER. Right, because treat them and go. Get them out, get them in.

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The Why Behind Small Tasks: The Whiteboard

SPEAKER_04 22:24

I know God, like I want to impact the worst moment of your life. And I think we're gonna kind of talk about that a little bit later. If we ever get to that in the episode, is really about creating the best worst experience. I want to not that I want to let hold on, let's let's take that back. Want is maybe a very strong word because want implies that I'm okay with the trauma that I see. That uh that I'm I'm looking forward to people getting injured or hurt. And that is no, I feel like I am called to be in the moments where people are at their worst. Right. Um, and that is much different. I want to let you know that there's light in the darkness. I want you to feel unafraid in the busy time. I want you to know that someone's praying for you right that minute, and there's someone praying for you that has the knowledge that you need, and that you're with a team and in a space that is exactly where you need to be at that moment. Okay. And I want to get you well enough to either send you home or get you admitted, and then I want to be the available for the next person. And I think that understanding that about myself has really helped me bloom myself in my specialty, and that as a leader is what I look for in help with my team. Just because you're not succeeding in my space doesn't mean that you're a terrible person.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

Amen.

SPEAKER_04 24:05

And I so often see nurses start to feel like they're terrible because they're not meeting the mark.

SPEAKER_03 24:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:13

And are you not meeting the mark or are you in the wrong space and now the mark is incorrect?

SPEAKER_03 24:18

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 24:18

And you know, work and healthcare, there are so many opportunities, and it's so diverse. You can be a cruise ship nurse, you can be um on an oil. Wait, what'd you say? A cruise cruise ship.

SPEAKER_03 24:31

I'll look into that later. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 24:32

Cruise ship nursing.

SPEAKER_03 24:33

Yeah, apparently now I know what I'm gonna do next. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 24:36

You can do you can do special need camps, you can do home health, you can be an educator. There are so many options.

SPEAKER_03 24:45

There's so much room for all of us. And we need every single person.

SPEAKER_04 24:49

Every single person, every single person, and we need exactly what they bring. And just because their initial inclination didn't line up doesn't mean that nursing is wrong. Right? It's not that I can be called to be a nurse and not called to be an oncology nurse or a hospice nurse. I need to align my calling with my specific purpose because nursing might be it doesn't mean that all of nursing at such a you know, you're saying that.

SPEAKER_03 25:18

What what if that is the key? What are what if we're not focusing enough on helping people figure out what their purpose is?

SPEAKER_04 25:27

That's exactly part of it.

SPEAKER_03 25:29

And if we could do that.

SPEAKER_04 25:31

As leaders, we're often feel rushed. So what I see historically is we take excellent nurses who are trained in all of the healthcare, who have gone through all of the health classes in college, right? And they do such a beautiful job. And we say, Man, you do such a beautiful job nursing. We're gonna make you the leader. They've never had leadership classes, they've never been trained in leadership, they're not developed in those areas, and then we say, But you're such a good nurse. Yeah, well, great, I am an excellent nurse, but I've not had the same education and leadership. And because of that, and because we have, oh, this is just such a space we'll both recognize and just understand, is it is so hard to be a novice expert, to be taken out of a space where you truly are an expert at the bedside and plucked and placed into a space where you would like to be an expert and you would like to walk in your expertise, but you know very well you surely aren't. And the areas where you were fast, you're now slow, and the things you never had to say. And now, what do you feel like? A failure. You you do, you do, and now we're those who's leading. And so, how do we have the time to really make sure each one of our team members are where they are and they're blooming in their space when we ourselves are trying to figure it out as a new leader in an area?

SPEAKER_03 27:08

You know, I love like your the blooming and the plucking. I made a post a few weeks ago about essentially the same thing. We're not we're not loving our nurses by plucking them too soon. In order to love them, we water them, we fertilize them, we we we give them what they need, where they are. And if we pluck them too soon, all we've done is kill their dream or kill their idea of who they are. And we haven't helped ourselves at all. No. And that I was like, uh the whatever the post I made, I was like, so I'm just gonna stand here and I'm gonna keep watch on all of my flowers, which are our nurses, and I'm gonna make sure that nobody plucks them too soon because we're not helping anything at all if we do that. We have absolutely, and I love you for this.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

We're 75% of people at least one social media platform. You mustn't call it compromise.

SPEAKER_03 28:25

I asked you one question. One question. I am gonna put us back a little bit back onto here because I feel like there's still some more, so much more wisdom and and depth that you can give. And I am I am just so excited. I for this episode specifically, I pray that our newcoming nurses listen in. Yeah. Because I need them to hear you say you are here for a reason.

SPEAKER_04 28:55

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 28:56

You are meant to be here.

SPEAKER_04 28:58

Well, and here's the thing: if you feel like you got here on accident, let's find out if it was an accident or if it was a divine intervention.

SPEAKER_03 29:05

Isn't it really ever an accident?

SPEAKER_04 29:08

Hard to believe an accident. Hard to believe. Hard to believe.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

Back on track.

SPEAKER_04 29:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 29:14

Okay. Can you walk me through a time when being radically honest has felt very risky, but it was the right thing to do. Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_04 29:27

Um, I'm sure there's an example of that every day in healthcare for sure.

Calling, Fit, And Finding Your Specialty

SPEAKER_03 29:33

I think you and I, of course, we're we're we're friends as well. I remember you telling me a little bit about a story about a physician. Okay. Um, and I'm just wondering if you would grace us with that story here.

SPEAKER_04 29:45

Because I think it's not when I had to ask a physician to leave. We are talking about that. Yeah. So my um background, as you've heard, is emergency care, ICU, ER, and which tells us a lot about you. Um, I I mean I'm already shared. I like to break them and I don't like to break them. I like them. Yeah, we want to fix everything. Which is really I think a trauma response. More than likely. Here we are. That's a whole other thing. I'm back on another episode. Yeah, yeah. Episode 47.

SPEAKER_03 30:25

We'll meet again.

SPEAKER_04 30:28

So as a charge nurse in the EER, I very much feel like I This is gonna be taken out of context, but I really don't know how to say it any other way. I feel responsible for my team and I feel like I own them. Not that I own them, but like I'm in debted to them. Like such a sense of responsibility. Yes. Um, and when I say own, I don't mean own in the way that they have to answer to me, but own in the way that I am responsible for them. The way that you answer to them is that I am responsible on that. I am where the buck stops. I feel like every day the most important person in every unit is the charge nurse. That is the person who sets the tone.

SPEAKER_03 31:15

Goods to ground.

SPEAKER_04 31:16

You are absolutely. They are the leaders of that department. They are the ones who are there. If you do the math, I believe it's 23% is what 40-hour work week is if you work eight to five. It's only 23% of a normal day. And a hospital or of a month or of a week, excuse me, of a week, and a hospital runs 24 hours a day. So if you have directors and managers and they work 40-hour weeks, they're there for 23% of the care that's provided in a week. Yeah. And you know who's there every second of every day, your charge nurse. Amen. And so as a charge nurse, I hold, I feel like that person is very important as a manager, as a director, as a leader. And when I was a charge nurse, I felt this very sense of ownership and responsibility. And uh, we had a situation where we had a very sick patient who, our ER doctor, who had done absolutely everything they could for them, and we had to call in a specialist. And when the specialist came into the room, the specialist told the patient, and I quote, the only reason you're in this situation is because the ER doctor is a fucking moron.

SPEAKER_03 32:35

Was the ER doctor there? Did you hear me?

SPEAKER_04 32:37

Oh, yeah. Was in the room. Sister. Every single person who has ever worked more than about 32 minutes with me will tell you that I have one thing that is a non-negotiable. What's your due north? My non-negotiable is we do not for any reason compromise the quality of care that our patients perceive that they are getting. That could be on my headstone. We do not talk poorly about housekeeping. We do not talk bad about other departments. We do not badmouth a single person because at the point that we compromise the quality of care that our patients perceive that they are getting, they are afraid and they no longer trust us. And as healthcare providers, our only solace is that I am here to meet you where you are and to do the best I can to take care of you. Amen. Whether or not you live or die, that is Jesus. What role I play in it, that is me and my integrity.

SPEAKER_03 33:41

And there will not be a- You're gonna answer for that one.

SPEAKER_04 33:44

100%. And there will not be a person that I lead who will be allowed to deviate from that north. And I do not care if you're the CEO of the hospital or you're a CNA, you will not on my watch compromise the quality of care a patient perceived that they are getting. And at the point that a specialist comes in to my trauma bay and tells a patient that the only reason that they are in my trauma bay is because of the incompetence of the ER doctor. That is not okay. Never will be. And you will not be allowed to stay in my department. Now, I extend a lot of grace because everyone is allowed to have a bad day. For sure. So, hey, hey, hey, hey, I need you to maintain your professionalism. Right. Because let me tell you what we pay for at the hospital. It's two things. And really, we pay for this everywhere. If you're a professional in any aspect, you're paid for your intelligence, your knowledge, your knowledge, and your professionalism. There you go.

SPEAKER_03 34:51

That's it. You can always control those two things. You can be the smartest man in the room. That's right. But if you can't conduct yourself with respect, integrity, kindness, compassion, your knowledge will literally just die.

SPEAKER_04 35:06

Your knowledge isn't is not you're not adding anything.

SPEAKER_03 35:10

Not a single bit, and you're not helping at all.

SPEAKER_04 35:12

So you're gonna have to leave.

SPEAKER_03 35:13

Yeah.

Novice To Leader: Don’t Pluck Too Soon

SPEAKER_04 35:13

And I didn't start with that. I started with whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Please maintain your professionalism. And so he continued and he did not. So he got asked to leave the room, which he did leave. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I'm sorry, sir, if you cannot maintain your professionalism, you're gonna have to step out. Yeah. Because what have we done to that patient's experience at this point? Well, not just that, but if you are truly in a critical condition and you are scared for your life, and that is what a provider says, you are now trauma. That is a traumatic that is traumatic. And this person needed to go to surgery where they were gonna be put under. So the last by the guy that's yeah, yeah, right. No, thank you. No, no, that's a that's a firm and hard no for me. Hard no. So, but a hard no, that's not easy. Do you know what it takes to throw a doctor out of a patient's room? And I don't know, I wasn't aggressive about it. I'm sorry, I'm gonna need you to leave. Regardless, aggressive or not. You're gonna have to step out. So he steps out, and I'm thinking it's gonna be okay. And the way the trauma bay is set up, you can see right where the providers are. And luckily, this was a doctor who normally is uh pretty reactive, but he did a very good job staying in his own chair that day. And uh I saw the specialist start going towards him, and it was not in a way that I thought was appropriate, and it seemed very challenging. And so I removed myself from the patient's room and I placed myself right between the provider, the providers. Um, I stood right in front of my ER doctor and uh planted my feet, played basketball. Most of y'all won't know that. Um, basketball player and volleyball player. You are a tall girl. I am tall. And so one thing I definitely know as a center is how to take a charge. And so had no problem planting my feet and standing right in front of my ER provider and uh telling my specialist that he was now gonna have to not just leave the room but leave my department.

SPEAKER_03 37:29

Amen. And uh And we'll talk about this tomorrow. Yeah, or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 37:34

Well, whenever. And so he didn't like that. And so I was like, you can either walk yourself out of my department or um I can call security. And so he turned and he started walking himself to the elevator right with me behind him, uh, pretty much telling him that his behavior was inappropriate and that although his expertise was most uh definitely wanted and needed, that he was not welcomed back in the park. Not at the cost until he was able to maintain his professionalism and that he would be welcomed back at any point. As soon as you can come into this space and maintain your professionalism, you're welcome here. But until then you have to leave and uh talk about a scary moment. Yeah. Um, is this gonna be my job? Right. Is this gonna who am I? Right. Who are I in this moment? And you know, I was very honest. I I would have had the exact same reaction. I wouldn't have cared if it was the CEO. I believe that. I truly believe that the person who was the most important at that moment was the patient. And if you can't keep that focus, then you're gonna have to step out.

SPEAKER_03 38:47

And I think anyone that would respond the way that that person did not have the patient as their focus in that moment. And what a beautiful gift you could give to put the focus back on. We're needing to be like, okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, we we venture off a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 39:05

Right.

SPEAKER_03 39:05

Let's go back here. Because this is what the center of what we do. It's serving our community. It is taking care of our brothers and sisters in Christ. Yes, doesn't matter. And I just I'm I'm thankful for you. I am I'm proud of you. Well, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 39:22

Because it was not easy. I remember after I walked back from the elevator. I'm standing in the department. You know, there all comes a lot of adrenaline, soiking. Yeah, what the heck is it?

SPEAKER_03 39:33

This is crazy. Listen, listen, you idiot. What did you just do? Who do I need to call and let them know I deserved a doctor besides Jesus Christ?

SPEAKER_04 39:43

Like, this is scary. And you know, like this is scary. And I remember my nurses saying, like, they were so impressed in the moment. And I remember them being like, that was awesome. And and very quickly being like, that was not awesome. There is never a moment in a hospital where you have to create correct someone to that magnitude that it is awesome. Okay. But what I will recognize is that the support that you guys felt that someone was not gonna allow that behavior.

SPEAKER_03 40:18

That was psychological safety that you gave them.

SPEAKER_04 40:21

And that is what healthy work environment really is. It is. That's the heart.

SPEAKER_03 40:28

That's the heart of it. It is. Now, listen, so I've definitely been reminded a couple of times about my time limit. Um, and we're we're nearing the end of our time. Perfect. You and I could probably do a whole damn series, right? But I do want to ask you this last question because I think that your answer is gonna be something that somebody, multiple people, probably including myself, need to hear. Healthcare is brutal at times.

Radical Candor In Action: Removing A Physician

SPEAKER_04 40:57

Brutal. It's the hardest job you'll ever love to hate. But it's also beautiful. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:02

So, what makes you stay?

SPEAKER_00 41:06

Hello, I'm Norman Harris, owner and CEO of Comfort Measures Consulting. We are a healthcare resource platform that specializes in business development for independently privately owned healthcare organizations that's partnered together to support your business growth through strategic digital marketing and community engagement. We're here for you. We're ready to serve you.

SPEAKER_04 41:41

Um Jesus. The people that I impact every day, my co-workers, you know, you're gonna make me cry because the truth is I never wanted to be in leadership. There was never a second that I ever said, I want to be a leader. What I said was I can't continue to work under people who don't have the right calling and the right reason. I mean, I'm here to do the right thing, not the easy thing. That's where the radical candor comes in. Yeah. It is hard to stand in front of a provider and say, you can't be here. I need you, and this patient needs you, and I need you to step out.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

But let's let's let's pay tribute to what that means for like what that meant. Like for those around me.

SPEAKER_03 42:29

That, but then for you, the in the moment, that could have been your job. 100%. That's your livelihood. You are the breadwinner, or I'm I am. Right. So, what did that mean for you and your family to take a second and stand up to that person and say, Oh, this is not okay. The amount of courage that that took. Rose, that's that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 42:56

I have the pleasure of being seasoned in healthcare and have uh, you know, we talked about before the camera started rolling how uh anything I do really well now, I once royally got wrong. And how what nursing looks like for me 20 years in is so much better than it looked on year one. And uh, you know, nursing is absolutely a calling that cost a piece of who you are. It's very easy to be jaded. Uh, nursing will break you in ways that you never knew you could be taken apart, and it will put you back together in a way you never knew you needed. Um, I talk often about the beauty of God and how he will, man, he will prune you back to nothingness in order to remind you of his audaciousness and the plan that he has to really bloom and grow you into other spaces. And in order to do that, we often have to break and be humble. And uh, you said, what was the word? Your exact words were correct me if I'm wrong, I had to let my own ego.

SPEAKER_02 44:23

I said, when my ego is louder than my humility, this can hurt me.

SPEAKER_04 44:28

And that is that is what nursing is to me. That is the daily reminder that my ego is not what gets me in. There's the gates of heaven. There's a single fucking place for it. It's not, it's not about, and that's why I think what helps me be successful in leadership and in nursing, because I'm just as happy to say, oh my God, I don't have it together. We we don't have to have it together. And I think that's the value of creating uh such a beautiful workspace, right? Is that um we all come every day with all of our brokenness. Yeah, we're not any less broken. I'm not any less broken because I look put together. Yeah, I'm not any like my husband's still cheating on me. Here I am, but it's still in deferment. There we go. And and I'm not, I don't have a car. But how can I serve you? But how can I serve you? Because in serving you, you know what I'm gonna find? A piece of myself through Jesus. I'm gonna find a piece of myself through the Holy Spirit. I'm gonna find an area of myself that I need to shine the light in so that I can be a better person. How can we, and this is truly what radical candor is to me, Jennifer. How can we shine light in the darkness if we're not willing to expose it? I'm broken. Yeah, I'm a broken person. We are all sinners, we are all broken, every single one of us, and we are all longing for that to be fulfilled, and we only find that fulfillness in our purpose, and our purposes are different. But we know our purpose is for healing others, healing others every time.

SPEAKER_02 46:14

And what a beautiful, like what a safe space Christ has given us to say, we know we're we're broken. 100%, but we're forgiven.

SPEAKER_04 46:26

And and I want, you know, and that's it's funny. It talks always reminds me about the Japanese art.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

I knew you were going, I knew you were going there with this. Go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 46:36

I don't know how to pronounce it. I don't know how to pronounce it either. Let's just be honest. I'm a country girl and my pronunciation is happy. I want to hear it. But I can't even okay. But for sure, there is art in in Japan. Yeah. And is it more than the name is the beauty? So, so often, and this is even what brings me to the beauty of like travel in other countries.

SPEAKER_03 46:58

And I do want I this is gonna literally be what wraps up our episode, which is the most beautiful way to wrap it up. So I just want I just want you to explain it to those that don't know. All right, but I think a lot of our viewers already know, but I would still want you to say it.

Psychological Safety Over Ego

SPEAKER_04 47:17

I love it. The beautifulness and the broken. And so it starts with a K, and I absolutely can't say it. And if any of the viewers would like to teach me, I'm totally in. Um, because you know it's all about getting better every day. Man. And so what I love about travel and about this Japanese art is that um often, you know, in America, we want the new. And when the first time in high school, when I went to England, uh, I where did I even go? I don't know. Edit this out more. 54321. When I went to Italy, you know, they we they still use the buildings that are two, three hundred, four hundred years old, you know, and the same thing with this Japanese art, and so you find broken vases, broken cups, and instead of trying to hide the faults, Jennifer, they highlight the faults in gold because it is the beauty of the not the brokenness. We all come broken, we are broken, every one of us, but we're slowly being put back together and finding healing, and in that healing is the beauty, and so to highlight that with gold, a precious metal that is found under, right? Like, think about the beauty, the beautiful things in the world diamonds, gold, humanity. We often have to mine for it, we have to expose it, and that is why I'm such an honor to be called into the call light collective because it truly is about bringing light and exposing the beauty of the brokenness. Nowhere did I say in my journey was perfection. Nowhere did I say I was whole, not one time did I say I knew all the answers, or that I understood the direction, or that I even had it figured out.

SPEAKER_02 49:17

But you are so loved just as you are, as are we all.

SPEAKER_04 49:24

Right, because we have our father who does that, and I think we forget that, and I think we forget that we have like there's no pressure to have it figured out is that vulnerability, that removing of the ego, that that loving space of honestness, that psychological safety, and that radical candor, that radical candor that makes it beautiful and paints those places with gold. Because it is in our fractures that we find the best light and truth, and that is where we become better.

SPEAKER_03 50:02

Listen, I love you.

SPEAKER_02 50:05

Thank you for not only being here with me, supporting the movement, um, but what you are giving to those coming in behind us because they need it so bad.

SPEAKER_03 50:21

If we do not explain to them and support them and show them, hey, listen, whoa, you don't have to come here perfect. You're gonna cry. I spent a year crying in my car before I logged before I clocked in for the nursing, right? They society teaches us to judge our own blooper reels by someone else's highlight reels. And that's even worse than nursing. And they assume they're a bad nurse, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 50:53

What you're doing, the gift that you're giving is a legacy.

SPEAKER_04 50:59

The gift that we're giving.

SPEAKER_02 51:01

The gift that we're giving. It's a collective.

SPEAKER_04 51:02

It's a legacy. It takes all of us.

SPEAKER_02 51:04

It does.

SPEAKER_04 51:05

It takes every single one listening, it takes us willing to sit with you, it takes you being brave enough to have the conversation and create the space. Takes every one of us to continue to spill into our profession.

SPEAKER_03 51:20

Well, I I love you for that, and it doesn't fall past me that you were uh overly e not oh that doesn't sound good. Never mind. Cut that you were so willing to be part of this movement, and that even today you said, let's bring light to the darkness, and that in itself is the mission. And I'm just so thankful for you. And I know Norman's probably about to have a stroke because we've gone over our time, and that's fine. I love you, and I love you, and not you, Norman, them. I do love you, but I'm talking about them. Thank you so much for joining us again today. Um, and I assure you, this one will be back. And until next time. Ah my love. Ah my life.