Episode 5: Jason P. Woodbury

In episode five of Known Associates, a podcast brought to you by New Pony in affiliation with Southwest Review, the Paranoid Style singer-songwriter and cultural critic Elizabeth Nelson talks to Jason P. Woodbury, the beloved and highly respected writer, editor, podcaster, and frontman for the band Jason P. Woodbury & The Night Bird Singing Quartet. He’s got a wonderful new album out this month, also called Jason P. Woodbury & The Night Bird Singing Quarteton his label, Always Happening Records.  

Over the course of their conversation, Elizabeth and Jason go deep on his new album and how he wrote and recorded this collection of songs under this particular band name (2:47). They also talk about Jason’s artistic influences (21:12) and who inspires him as a songwriter and a music fan. Then they get into Jason’s ancestral and current home of Arizona, the general weirdness of the American Southwest, and how the surpassing beauty and strangeness of his surroundings shaped him (27:00), plus they dive into the presence of UFOs in the desert and the appeal of the unknown (31:26). They also discuss his iconic album artwork for his new record, which is a must-see for any fan of Vintage Contemporary books (40:00). Elizabeth then asks Jason about how he deals with the perceived role conflict in being both a songwriter and a music critic, and how these identities intersect and augment each other (45:44). They also consider the current state of music criticism, why criticism is still important, and the viability of music publications and careers in the field of music journalism (53:00). Finally, they talk about Jason’s decision to release his record on his own label, what his plans are now that he is running a label, and what his future holds (1:08:43). 

Follow all things Jason P. Woodbury at places like his Bandcamp, the legendary Aquarium Drunkard, and his Substack Range and Basin. Subscribe to Known Associates and check out Southwest Review’s website. Pick up a subscription to the magazine while you’re at it!  

Host: Elizabeth Nelson

Producers: Greg Brownderville, Robert Rea, Hannah Smith

Mixed by: Clay Jones

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Hey, my name is Elizabeth Nelson, and this is my podcast, Known Associates, produced by New Pony. If this is your first time listening, hello. Hello, I'm Elizabeth, and I am the singer-songwriter for the band The Paranoid Style, and also a cultural critic whose work appears in the New York Times magazine, The Ringer, The New Yorker, The Atlantic, and of course, most importantly, Southwest Review. The publication who helps make this podcast possible. Today I am talking to Jason P. Woodbury, a gentleman, scholar, singer-songwriter, music critic, and podcaster. I'll level with you. We share a lot in common. Perhaps you've read his work at Aquarium Drunkard, or maybe Pitchfork or Stereo Gum, or even Southwest Review. Or maybe you've listened to his Transmissions Podcast, a show I was lucky enough to be a guest on. Or maybe you know him from his music, of which he's released quite a bit under a few different names, including JPW and Dadweed. He's got a new record and a new band name called Jason P. Woodbury and the Nightbird Singing Quartet, which is a collection of really beautiful, timeless songs that I can't recommend highly enough. Jason calls the great state of Arizona his home, hailing originally from the weird outskirts of the rural Sonoran desert, and now lives in the bustling but still weird metropolis of Phoenix. Strange things happen in those high and dry climates. What can I tell you? Not much, but Jason can tell you a lot. So here's me and Jason getting weird and going deep on music, music criticism, and that time the UFOs came to his hometown. Hi Jason.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

Hey Elizabeth.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

How are you?

SPEAKER_02 2:18

I'm doing good. Uh I am relatively warm here in the desert, uh, as opposed to you all on the East Coast, but uh uh getting over a a slight illness, so if any listeners notice a uh a tinge of something in my voice, it might be that. But other than all that, I'm doing great. Great. Excited to be here and talking with you.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

And I likewise am excited to have you um as a guest on the Known Associates podcast. Um you have a record coming out in March called Jason P. Woodbury and the Nightbird Singing Quartet. Um, it is a really beautiful record and um certainly not your first album that you've put out. Um, and uh we can talk a little bit about how you have been recording music under a variety of different names, but I just wanted to talk first and foremost about the new record, uh probably because it's the one that's freshest on your mind, and I think the one that um people should be very anxious to check out. Um and and because I love it. Um thank you so much. Like, you know, one of the things that I appreciate about it is um how beautifully recorded and um performed it is, and it has this kind of quality that I love so much in records, um, where it could have plausibly been recorded between like 1971 and yesterday. And so I hear like the best of Neil Young's nature writing, uh, this weird ecstasy of Roxy music, the exaltant defeatism of American Music Club. These are a few of my favorite things. Can you give me some background on Jason Woodbury, Jason sorry, Jason T. Woodbury and the Nightbird Singing Quartet? Uh when were these songs written and recorded?

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Yeah, they've been written and recorded over the last couple of years. Um in 2022, I put out my first record under the the JPW title, a kind of a band name slash you know, project name. And uh on that record, I worked with uh primarily the producer Michael Krasner, but also my buddy Zach Taporic, who played drums and some guitar and some keyboards on that record. And we had so much fun. We've known each other forever. Zach has been putting out music uh we you know for uh 20 years or so now, and uh we just had always got along super well. Uh but I I brought him in to help work on that record some, and then we just started writing more, and we recorded a whole record together that came out last year under our our two project names, JPW and Dadweed, and that was called The Mass Like a Rat King. But basically, from the moment we worked on that first record in 2021 and that was released the following year, we just have kept at it ever since, just recording pretty much non-stop, working on songs, and so these songs all sort of came out of the collaboration where uh we put together a full band in order to play live, and that includes our friend Andrew Bates on on bass and Rob Kroller on keys and Rick Hines on pedal steel and guitar. And so we were playing songs from his record, my record, the record we made together uh with these guys, and as we were doing that, these songs sort of started to come into shape. And so some of them were things I had written, some of them were things that we wrote together. Um, but really we realized like, okay, you know, the record we made together, it was just the two of us, and we played everything on it. Zach handling a lot of the instrumental duties on our collaborative record. But with this one, we were like, we really want to get these guys in the mix. And so I would say from about 2023 into 24 and 25 is when these songs were written and recorded primarily in 2025, but uh we all were kind of tinkering with them and working on them in those years prior. So it's been a little bit of a long uh gestating project, but uh but yeah, that's that's sort of the the story of the where the the the time frame that we were working with.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Cool. And um were you guys going into a studio or were you doing a lot of it, you know, from your various homes, yeah piecing it together? Yeah, little hybrid of both. How did it all come together?

SPEAKER_02 7:15

It's kind of a hybrid of both. I mean, one of the things that's cool about this band, uh, and I'm really just big fans of these guys as creative uh individuals and players, but kind of it's it's almost like a band of producers. Like everybody has their own recording set up at home. Um, and so we did a fair amount of it in uh Rob's studio in his like little backhouse. And then we all did l some con contributions from our own individual places, um, and then but a lot of it was also done at Zach's studio. Uh Zach is Zach ended up kind of taking the the the lead producer role and assembling this thing. So a lot of it was done at his place, and uh but it's been really fun and interesting to have everybody be able to record themselves. Uh but that said, we didn't want it to feel too piecemeal. We wanted it to sort of have like a cohesive feel. So the bulk of the stuff was done with all of us in a room and then certain overdubs and things like that were done individually. But yeah, mostly done at Zach's place, and I really credit him with the sort of cohesion of the record because he took all this stuff and he sort of made it into a uh kind of molded it into a shape that I think hangs together really well and feels like a a pretty solid statement. And so yeah, that's sort of that's sort of how it came it came together. It's it's crazy how incredibly you can record on your own these days. You know, everybody having their own Daws is is kind of amazing. And I really I I hope, I think for the next record, I would love to just get this band in a single room and cut everything start to finish live. Um but that said, this is sort of the next best thing in terms of being able to capture a lot of the live band feel, but also sort of have the uh adaptability of uh individual recording spaces and stuff too.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

For sure. Uh that's kind of recording in the modern age. I mean, um my band still goes into the studio and more or less does it all live, but we obviously have taken advantage of having people flying parts from you know areas that we're you know not able to access. And it helps. And it and you know, it can sound as organic as anything else. Um okay, so before we, you know, get into a little bit of the specifics of the record, I kind of am curious. Um, like why do you keep changing your band name?

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Well, this is the only time I've changed it so far. Um it went from JPW to Jason P. Woodbury and the Nightbird Singing Quartet. But I mean there's a couple different there's a couple different things. Well um one, it's the more sort of uh the sort of boring answer, uh, which I'm like loath to to admit, is just uh there are like other JPWs on the internet.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

Yeah. And uh and their stuff kept getting tagged to my page, and I would sort of flag it as like this isn't me. And um a couple months ago, you know, one of these JPWs, sort of like a rap, SoundCloud rap type thing, uploaded something, and I had some people going like, Wow, big shift from from Jason, and it was like that's not me. Uh and so um so uh the sort of prosaic, boring thing is like, well, uh Jason P. Woodbury is what people know me as, as a writer and uh a podcaster and everything else. So maybe it's time to just uh you know take that and apply that name to what I'm doing. But the the the more artistic answer is that this did feel like a different kind of thing for me. And and I guess maybe, you know, JPW as a band name, I liked it an awful lot. Uh to me it was always sort of like a fun throwback to things like ELO, you know, like or or whatever, Emerson Lake and Palmer. I always sort of viewed it as sort of like a a prog rock type uh like thing. Um but I I but it was also at least in part like I wanted to create some distance between me as a writer and a podcaster and me as a musician because I thought, oh, these are different sides of me, and I don't want, you know, to necessarily draw the line as you know distinctly as I could. Uh and then you know, when it came to making this record, I just I don't know, it it felt like it was just the the right move. Uh something just sort of internally called to me and was like, you know, maybe just maybe just put your name on this. And then the side effect is that we can tag all the old stuff with my full name now too on streaming sites. And I think the line will be uh more it'll be clearer when it's me or when it's like this other electronic artist, JPW, whose uh music uh performs better than mine on streaming services, I know, because I get his little uh his little updates and stuff. So uh anyway, yeah, that's that's sort that's sort of it. And then the other thing was, you know, I wanted to come up with a uh a name for this record. And for the longest time we I was just calling it Nightbird Singing, so I thought it would be JPW, Nightbird Singing, but I was uh I I don't know. I wanted to sort of like christen this band in a weird way, and so the Nightbird Singing Quartet sounded so uh classy to me and so eloquent. So I was like, Jason P. Woodbury and the Nightbird Singing Quartet, that would be kind of cool. And then uh that just became the title too. So uh that's the that's the long and short of it. Uh the the perils of of uh being a band in the uh streaming age uh are that you know you become intimately familiar with all the other artists who are using the same moniker. So that's sort of a little of that.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

Yeah, yeah. It's um there's a couple of well, there's no band that has the name the Paranoid Style yet, but there's a couple of songs out there. I know Bad Religion did one after we had put the band together, and and um it was like, oh, it's like close enough to kind of be adjacent, you know, like that, you know, but I mean obviously it's bad religion, but you know, I was like, oh man, that's that you know, it's a good, it's a good, good, good call, guys. It's a good title. But I as a person who has a very, very common name, Elizabeth Nelson, right? There are writers out there who journalists who have the same name. And um like I will often get confused with them. So there's like a woman who like does like recipes for southern living, who like is like, here's like five great things you can do with bacon, and then like people are like, wow, that's like not your usual fare, Elizabeth, you know, or like and then there's another woman who's like writes these deeply personal essays, and um she gets a lot of my email. So like so she writes about relationships and her life, and like she'll forward me these emails that are like, you know, I must quibble with you about your review of Empty Glass, and I'm like, oh, this poor woman, you know, like she's just trying to get by with you know, her writing about her relationships. But anyway, I feel your pain is what I'm trying to say. So you have come up with something that I think is bulletproof.

SPEAKER_02 15:09

Uh well we'll see. We'll see.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Or I mean, yeah, I guess like if if another nightbird singing quartet comes along, you just add a fifth member and and make the nightbird singing quintet or something.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

Well, you know what's so funny is that we're preparing for shows for this release, and we do have another member who's gonna be in the in the um playing drums on the record. Zach plays drums, but he really I really like having him on guitar and and you know, like vocal backing vocals, although he always sang while playing drums too. But anyway, so we we do have another member, and so right now I'm struggling with the the utterly confusing task of saying, do we advertise the nightbird singing quintet plays the music of Jason P. Woodbury and the Nightbird Singing Quartet? Or do we just figure out some way to not do any of that? I I had to figure it out, but yeah. Uh so it's funny that you mentioned that. The quintet has already come into the uh the picture. And uh so who knows? Maybe it, you know, I always love again, like that adaptability, the idea that it could be the nightbird singing trio or the nightbird singing, you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Totally. That's what like the minus five does. They're just like the minus three. Uh, you know, I mean, they they're very adaptable. So don't let the numbers drag you down. They won't. I never I never do. Um okay, so let's talk a little bit about a couple of songs on the record, if you don't mind. Um, you've got one on there called Calling From Somewhere that I really like because it starts with a one of the great opening lines of a song. Uh, it goes, He was good at demolition, less so when it came to repair. Um, and that's such a good line. And I always feel like when you've got a good beginning, a killer couplet like that, it's almost open field running um on how great a song can be. And lo and behold, I heard that line, and the rest of the song was as great as that first line. So can you tell me about the experience of writing that one? Did the line come to you first, or uh was that something that came later?

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Yeah, I do think that that one started with the opening line, actually. Um, and you know, that song Calling from Somewhere is sort of uh Yeah, it's it that's a song that's sort of written about various guys I've known over the years who are, you know, um how how to put it? Uh you know, a handful, guys who are maybe a a bit much. And um and I have I sort of tend to subscribe to the theory that like you know you are always sort of writing about yourself even when you're writing about other people. So I tried to make sure that you know I zoomed in on the aspects of of these the guys who inspired that song and sort of pinpoint the things that you know weirded me out about said guys, and then try to drill down into the discomfort of recognizing that the reason that those things weirded me out were because I identify with those things. And so he was good at demolition, less so when it came to repair, is very much about me as well. And I'm very good at making a mess. I'm very good at starting a thing, less so at wrapping it all up and putting it all back together. So that that line ended up being about me as much as anybody else from my past. But it was also sort of inspired by a friend who was incredible at going, we're gonna knock this wall down and expand this room, and then you went into his house three years later and the wall's down and the room still is in shambles, and you're like, Man, you gotta finish this up, man. But yeah, that was sort of that was sort of about about that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

I I love I love those guys. Um I I love a project guy.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

Uh again, and then and and again, and that then that's me, you know, like there are other characters in that song, and uh um, but it's all sort of about just like recognizing um I I guess you know, I recently did an interview with Peter Stamffel from The Fugs. And you know, incredible. Uh and he's got a song on his uh latest record that's sort of about like you know, it's inspired by like old advertising jingles, but also sort of stoic wisdom. And he's got this line where he's like, you know, um I I I I'm gonna mess it up so I'll I'm paraphrasing him. This is not a direct quote, but it was like, you know, be strict with yourself and lenient with others. And uh and I I kind of felt like that's sort of what that song ultimately is about, you know, calling from somewhere is this idea that like everybody's sort of coming from someplace, and you don't necessarily know what it is that has made them into who they are. Um, and nobody is just one thing, but uh it's it's sort of about finding grace for for others, and then hopefully the idea is that that extends to finding grace for yourself too. Um and uh so yeah, that's that's sort of what I was sort of what I was doing with that one.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

That's I I thank you so much for answering the question. Um it's a great song, and as I say, um one of many, like I well, you said this, I didn't say it, but one of these many character studies that you have on this record, um, you seem to have a real knack for creating, and I mean, if they do have a little bit of your DNA in there or your your friend's DNA in there, like, you know, that's I I mean, well, obviously, you know, perfectly acceptable, but it seems like you are also creating characters out of whole cloth in this way that um I associate with somebody who I believe you and I um both love, who is Elvis Costello. Um, and uh so I I I did want to maybe just ask you like, you know, um who was like your mood board? Who are your inspirations when you were thinking about like, okay, I'm gonna put together 11 songs and you know they're gonna a lot of them are gonna be these character studies. No, I already brought up Neil Young and American Music Club, and but Costello feels like a big influence on you. Who else, as Mark Marin would say, who are your guys? Who are my guys?

SPEAKER_02 21:47

Yeah. Uh well, Costello is a huge influence, uh, big time. Uh and he's somebody who I've been listening to for a really, really long time, and who also is, you know, it's It's great when there are artists who sort of serve as gateways to other artists too. So El through Elvis Costello, you know, I find myself listening to Nick Lowe. Right. You know, and then through Nick Lowe, you just go down the rabbit hole, and next thing you know, you're listening to Carlene Carter and you're listening to, you know, Brinsley Schwartz and all of this cool stuff. Um Graham Parker is another one sort of uh who, you know, kind of coming at it through the sort of pub thing. And and I always loved about Elvis that he has sort of like so much of the energy I love from punk from that era, but also a songwriterly sophistication and writerly side. So uh Elvis is definitely definitely one of them. People bring up Neil Young, and when they do, it is always just like an overwhelming honor to have people, you know, compare me in any way to something Neil Young has done. So he's definitely one of my one of my guys. But um, you know, on this record, it's kind of weird. There are various strands on this record, and we worked hard to sort of make sure that it felt, like I said, of a of a piece and sort of cohesive, but there's sort of disparate sides to it. There's a lot of like 90s uh alternate pop kind of in the mix on this one. Stuff like, I mean, the gin blossoms, being an Arizona guy, like the gin blossoms are sort of they're sort of they're they're while they definitely qualify as like CVS or Walgreens Rock, uh, you know, there's also a real like jangle uh jangle pop element to them and the birds and uh Big Star, all those references that you know that I sort of heard in the gin blossoms before I even realized that that's what I was hearing, you know. Uh so the gin blossoms are in the mix. Uh there was a lot of referencing Cheryl Crow's records from the 90s on this one, specifically that the the um Froom and uh Thad Blake records uh where they're involved. Um somebody told me that uh All Motion of Glow, the song on the record. Somebody mentioned to me that that sounded like Sheryl Crow playing a Neil Young song, and I was like, that's a great way to think about it. Uh so that's sort of in the in the mix. We were also talking a lot about REM came up an awful lot in regards to this record, and at one point, kind of like my joking mission statement was REM if they had signed to ECM records. Uh I don't think we actually really got that, but it it helps to have those sort of jokes, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 24:52

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

Um for sure, stuff like um there's always a lot of like I'm thinking of a lot of British folk and stuff. I'm a huge fan of Fairport Convention and Richard Thompson, Richard and Linda Thompson, and so that stuff is sort of in the mix, but the guys, the the everybody in the band is coming from various places as well. So, you know, they bring their side of it, but those are a few of the thoughts on my on my side. Always, I'm always thinking about the Beach Boys. All the Wilson brothers are my guys. Um and uh yeah, those those are a those are a few of the things. And then there's a song, uh, one of the instrumentals, uh, Rooster at five, is definitely our attempt at like a Vince Giraldi kind of style thing. So I would say that when it comes to what I'm listening to, I'm listening to Vince Giraldi a lot, all the time, pretty much. Not just at Christmas time, pretty much all the time. So those are a few, a few of the the guys and gals that are in the mix, at least were in my head, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

You um you bring up Arizona and I want to talk about that a little bit too. But another band that kind of came to mind, which you might not hear immediately for yourself, but was the Meat Puppets. I feel like there's a little bit of that sacred boogie in this record, uh, maybe hiding out a little bit in the background there.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

But um I mean that's a huge, huge honor. I am a deep fan of the Meat Puppets. Uh the SST stuff, you know, I mean, like Up on the Sun is just like, I think, one of those truly transcendent records. And there is something weird about the the Meat Puppets in regards to the desert and Arizona, is that I feel like there's some sort of spiritual zone that even if it doesn't sound like the Meat Puppets, maybe it shares a little of that um location-wise with them. So I'm always thrilled to hear that for sure.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Yeah, I I well, and I I mean, like this I think comes up in like your your press materials, which not everybody will have access to, but um you mention that you know there's this commingling of you know the sacred and the spiritual and the cosmic. And um, if I'm not mistaken, you're currently like in Phoenix, Arizona, is that correct? And so like that's like the Sonoran desert, but you're from rural Arizona, which is probably its own flavor. And I want to hear a little bit about that. But I was reminded reading your press materials, which is like, I know everybody wants to hear, like, wow, like in your press materials, you brought this up. But I was reminded reading your press materials um of this line that a woman said in a documentary about a cult in Colorado. So we're talking several hundred miles from you, um, and not a major city at all. I think it has a population of about 141, but it was such a, it was such like a beautiful way that she she said it and she was she was sort of apologetic because she thought it sounded new agey. But it was something about how where they were in Colorado, um, how did she say it? She said, the veil is very thin between the worlds. And what she was meaning was like weird shit happens in these places, like rabbit holes and people disappearing. And I feel that same kind of weirdness when I think about the American Southwest, when I think about, you know, Arizona, and you brought up like the Phoenix UFOs, and I wanna I want to hear a little bit about that because I read about it and I was like, man, that must have been a weird day in this major city for these people to experience these UFOs. But also, like, what was it like coming from rural Arizona? I mean, like, it had to be weird. Um Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

Well, f first and foremost, yeah, it is weird and the desert is weird. Um, but it's I'm I'm excited that you brought up Colorado because the song All Motion of Gro All Motion a Glow was originally titled Colorado. So um, you know, I I grew up in addition to so um what happened was I grew up I was born in Chandler, Arizona, which is a suburb of Phoenix, like East Valley. And then after my parents split, my dad moved to moved us to Coolidge, Arizona, which was the more rural side of things. And um so I kind of grew up splitting my time between the Phoenix Metro sprawl, which is huge and very, very uh expansive, and uh sort of rural Arizona, where it is a little bit more um, it's a little quieter and it's definitely a little weirder. Um, but but that song, All Motion A Glow, was sort of inspired by road trips that I would take with my my grandparents to Colorado, New Mexico, and Utah. So there's a line in there where I say uh uh posed at the corners, four places at once, and that's about the four corners where uh those states all touch, and you can kind of you know uh twister pretzel yourself into being in four states at the exact same time. Yeah, I always thought that was really kind of funny. Um but yeah, I mean the weirdness of the desert is um is a big uh attraction to me. It's a thing that I like to write about, it's a thing that I like to reflect on, and it does happen sort of just naturally. I don't have to really reach for the weirdness, it's pretty innate. And uh anybody who listens to one of my favorite shows is my friend Ken Lane's program, Desert Oracle Radio, which I highly recommend. Anybody who is sort of misses the Art Bell era of Coast to Coast AM, check out Desert Oracle Radio. But yeah, um, you know, the otherworldly is I guess it's probably something to do with open skies and just a lot of uh space. So, you know, the sort of oh as I mentioned, like 90s pop being sort of like one of the touchstones for this record, the 90s in general felt like a pretty UFO-centric decade. And certainly was for me.

SPEAKER_01 31:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

I was obsessed with you know science fiction as a kid and and remain so. And I think that uh in the 90s, I mean so the Phoenix Lights, which we took which you touched on, that took place in like 1997, and it's one of the the most widespread UFO sightings in American history, and people saw it as far south as you know Mexico as well. So it was like a pretty insane situation. One of my favorite tidbits is that a pilot was coming into Sky Harbor and called it in uh saying, Hey, I'm I'm seeing this thing, and that pilot was Kurt Russell, uh, the actor. And so people, you know, this is a pretty widespread thing. Even Kurt Russell, Snake Pluskin himself saw the Phoenix Lights. Um but when it comes to that stuff, when it comes to extraterrestrials or the paranormal, uh, I I I I take a pretty agnostic stance. I don't I don't know what it was. And in fact, I suspect that the Phoenix Lights was uh human technology uh being witnessed, perhaps uh military grade stuff that we don't know about. But um I'm really I'm really drawn to that stuff, and I'm drawn to the unknown. The idea of the unknown is what makes it so appealing to me. I almost feel like maybe as much as I want to know the truth, you know, uh, are we alone in the universe? Uh X-File style, the truth is out there. As much as I want to know that stuff, there is a part of me that would probably be a little disappointed once I understand it all, because it's the mystery that's so alluring and it's the unknown quality that makes it so captivating to me. So yeah, that's some of that. But and that's one of the things that I love about being able to sort of write about that stuff and bring that it out musically is that um in the space of a song, you know, I think mystery is so accessible and you can sort of like touch the mystery without having to explain it away or actually put your finger on exactly it what it is. So that's sort of what I was what I was going at with that stuff. But yeah, the weirdness of the desert is very is very real, and anybody who has spent any time in the desert has likely had one or two moments that feel a little otherworldly and like that veil between, you know, states of reality, it does get pretty thin in the desert, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

Cool. I I and you can hear it on the record. And I mean, you know, I like to talk a lot with guests on this show about like regional scenes, and so you know, we brought up the meat puppets, and I mean, the it might not necessarily be that because like you know, you guys were kind of you know piecing this together from your homes or whatever that you were in one particular studio, but there definitely is that sense of place. There is that that feeling of the mystery of the vastness of the desert. Um, and and that sort of like, you know, like you feel like everything's kind of been discovered at this point except like certain pockets of the American Southwest. I think, at least to me as an East Coast person, like they still feel very mysterious. And I think, you know, people, you know, travel to Roswell for, you know, one very highly specific reason, um, which is aliens. Uh I think. And I I mean, although I did have a friend who saw Billy Bob Thornton's band play there and and uh said it was the worst show of his life. Um but uh I know I felt so bad for poor Billy Bob, poor landman. Um but anyway, so so um the Arizona piece fills in a lot in terms of like the sonic template of what you were kind of going for. And obviously it's it's hard to escape that that background. And when we talked, you know, previously about my record, you know, you'd mentioned driving around the desert with your grandparents, listening to Z Z Top, um, which I thought would seem like a really, really beautiful memory of, you know, listening to, I mean, they're obviously Texas boogie, but you know, getting that that vibe while experiencing probably some, I don't know, I is it like terribly, terribly boring, or is it surpassingly beautiful driving around Arizona?

SPEAKER_02 36:32

Or both? Well, I mean it's both at the same time sometimes, you know. I think like I I I feel I feel like when I was younger it was boring, you know. And now that I'm older, and maybe now that like I have a cell phone or the internet, it's like now it feels almost luxurious to be out in the desert and not getting notifications, you know. The sort of vastness is so much more uh appealing and alluring now than it even was as a as a kid. So if it and I feel like it maybe it looks boring from the outside, uh, but for me at least, like being in the desert has a lot to do with my inner landscape too, you know, and it's like it puts me back in touch with that. And so the drive from say Phoenix the Tucson is one of my favorites now. And I really I love the the chance to do it, and I love the chance to be in the open desert. And it does have a lot to do with those experiences of being with my grandparents as a kid and you know, my grandpa who passed away last year listening to, you know, Z Z Top. And um I think really sort of it's it's weird because I I I I've written about music for a long time. But writing music myself, it it puts me in touch with things that feel instinctual and sort of elemental. And I mean, like there's a line in that song All Motion A Glow where I say, you know, uh the tightrope is strung. And that's a little bit of a reference to one of the earliest I my mom has this cassette tape of me singing the Bob Seeger song Tightrope when I was like two years old in my grandpa's van. And they had given me this uh tape, you know, recorder to play with. And I realized, you know, putting this record together, that I've been fascinated with capturing my voice on tape or digital, you know, recording software or whatever. But pretty much my entire life, and that that's something that you know, those experiences that I had with them listening to music, seeing the desert through their the you know, the the windshield of the van, that that was all pretty uh formative. And uh and that's the sort of thing that when you start making music and you're and you're sort of drawing on pretty deep emotional things, yeah. Uh you you find yourself kind of putting two and two together in a way that uh is is pretty revelatory.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

For more from Southwest Review, visit the website for weekly content. And while you're there, don't forget to subscribe to the print magazine. Six dollars per issue, twenty-four dollars gets you a whole year. You didn't just fall off a hay truck, you know that's a bargain. You can also follow Southwest Review on Instagram, X and Blue Sky. I I think that's so like romantic sounding, and it it makes perfect sense. And and I wanna I wanna talk a little bit, and we'll we'll we'll get there. I want to talk a little bit about like Jason P. Woodbury, the the music writer versus Jason P. Woodbury, the songwriter. Um, because this is also something that we share in common. But first, before we get into that deep conversation, um I gotta bring up, because this is a literary podcast, your album cover artwork, um, which for the uninitiated is vibing off of a vintage contemporary um novel artwork. And it's it looks perfect. I mean, I, you know, whoever you got to do it did an amazing job. And I would just love to know like, how did you conceptualize that? Um, why did you conceptualize that? And other than it's awesome. And um, you know, like if you had any concerns about being labeled a literary songwriter, um, are you okay with the fact that now you're probably going to be painted with that brush?

SPEAKER_02 41:03

Oh, I'm not okay with it. I'm I embrace it full fully. I'm throwing my arms around the idea. I'm begging people to consider me a literary songwriter. Um, I mean, I'm joking only, I'm only somewhat joking. Uh it was definitely, it wasn't like an intentional thing, like I want people to think of me as a literary songwriter, but it was a thing where it was like, um, first and foremost, the vintage contemporaries design is just so evocative and so um comforting to me. I see those editions and I'm just like, this is incredible, you know. My favorite Raymond Carver edition is a Vintage Contemporaries Um pressing. And so uh somewhere along the line, I it it popped into my head that that would be maybe a cool thing to do. And so I kind of put together a rough mock-up of the collage that's on the on the cover myself. I just sort of made it on my phone and I thought this is kind of interesting. And um, and then I reached out to Daryl Norsen, D Norson, who does incredible stuff for uh Aquarium Drunkard is how we met, but um, you know, uh Numero Group, Light in the Attic, uh just the best. Daryl is such an awesome dude and such a great designer. And so I kind of reached out to him and I was like, hey, you know, I I had this weird idea to do a vintage contemporaries rip, and I thought maybe you would know how to go about it. And he was like, dude, this is a great idea, and I can't believe that I haven't seen a bunch of other people do it already, you know? And I was like, Yeah, I I'm sure somebody has, but nonetheless, like I think we can we can go for this. And so um, yeah, basically he he was able to match it, like, you know, all the font and the design and the style, and it's a complete homage to that era and to that, you know. Um yeah, for sure, it's sort of a way of of of saying like that there are literary uh aspirations on this record. Um and then beyond that, it would just I thought it would just look really great, and it it totally came across. And so he even like you know, always happening records is my own label, and that's you know, we're putting this record out on our own. And he was able to like match the vintage contemporaries logo with the always happening logo, and it just it I don't know. It was such a it was such a treat seeing that and such an absolute blast to see it come into reality. And he took my collage. And he made it look way better and he fixed fixed a bunch of stuff that I had kind of goofed up. And uh it just turned out great. And so so many people have been like, whoa, this album cover. And my my hope was uh that if you get it, you uh you immediately are like curious, and that has been the that's been the case. Um and then I think there are probably some people who see it and they go, this is kind of a strange design for an album cover. But you know, that the they'll uh yeah that that was definitely uh it was such such a treat to work with Daryl on it, and I just I couldn't be happier with how it turned out.

SPEAKER_01 44:39

Yeah, it it I mean it's like I said, it looks it looks perfect, and and for anybody who's a vintage contemporary fan, they're gonna they're gonna get it right away. And also, I mean, like you said, you know, it's uh if uh the eyes are the window to the soul, the album cover is the window to the record that you're about to listen to, and I do think it's a very good representation of of what you're in for. I mean, it's you know, it's got like this large rooster on the um on the cover, and it's like it's it's kind of like weird and spooky, you know, and it's like you definitely want to, you know, explore further. So for like the average create digger, I think they'd be like, oh yeah, like okay. Um I am intrigued uh by you know Jason P. Woodbury and the Nightbird Singing Quartet's self-titled album. Um, because it's a it's a fantastic, fantastic album cover. And yeah, um, I'm very aware of Daryl's work. Um, and he is he is fantastic, so that's really cool that you got to work with him. Um so yeah, I mean, like this comes up like for me sometimes in interviews, and I'm assuming that you get this as well, because you do both music criticism and you also do songwriting, and that's having your feet in two very similar but also different worlds. And so, like, do people ever ask you, and how do you answer this question? Like, do you consider yourself more of a like a prose writer, like a critic, or do you consider yourself more of a songwriter? Which one are you first?

SPEAKER_02 46:15

Yeah. Uh I haven't been asked that a ton, but people do ask me about the sort of distinction between the two things and and what the relationship looks like. And it's a thing that I don't always feel like I have a very good response or answer for. Because um, you know, uh the uh there they are two different kinds of writing in a certain sense. Because when I'm writing about, you know, a record, or if I'm writing a review, or if I'm doing a podcast with an artist, and I'm you know writing questions and trying to think about things, but there's a lot more analytical thought going into it. And I'm trying to think about like what is it that I want to say here and what is it that I'm doing. Um and then when I'm writing songs, I d uh that side of my brain is usually a little quieter and it's a little bit more intuitive, and I'm just like letting things come out and very often I'm figuring out what they mean after it's done. You know what I mean? Like I'm it like I don't know until it exists. And so um that's a different that's a different thing. But I guess I would say that one thing that sort of unites the two is one that they both come from a desire to express things and a desire to um explore the ways music uh opens our hearts and our on our brains in like really fascinating ways. And so I think there's like a a an attraction to uh again that sense of mystery that drives both my you know sort of prose writing and my songwriting. Um and and beyond that, that there's like a certain romance to both of them as well, where I just I love music, and music is such a huge part of my life, and music is such a huge part of how I see the world and how I see myself and how I see other people. And so um, you know, there is there's some commonality and there's some shared overlap, um, but they do end up being pretty different things. And when people ask me which I, you know, if I see myself as more one or the other, I don't know. I would say that for a long time I would have said I saw myself as a writer and critic first and a songwriter second. But the more songs I write, the more I kind of want it to be the inverse. I kind of want to say, I think I'm an artist first and uh a writer of you know, critic second. But um I don't know. I don't know. But that that's it's it's definitely one of those things. And I do feel like, and this came up in our conversation with transmission on transmissions, which is like people really, especially in the internet age, they really want you to be one thing that they can say, this is what you are, you're this. And uh I don't think that that really m I don't know if anybody is just one thing or if anybody falls into just one category. Um certainly I I think that that is uh reductive in a lot of ways. And so um so I don't I don't love having to say definitively one or the other, but uh but it's a complication and it's a it's a a question that I don't fully uh fully have my head wrapped around, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 49:56

Totally. Solidarity with you right there. Um and I mean l let the tape show that at age two you were singing Bob Seeger uh into a cassette recorder. So I mean, you you were a songwriter first. I was I was, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:13

And I don't even I even remember being, you know, in high school, you know, I started writing songs, you know, for like my first band. Um but also you know, sort of like uh kickstarting the school newspaper. Like I remember like being in uh a class uh and there wasn't a school newspaper, but I was like, we need to have a school newspaper, and I and it was like I wanted to write record reviews for the school newspaper, and so they were like, Well, there has to be a newspaper. And I was like, it's fine, I'll put the newspaper together. Uh and so I got people to write other stories and I wrote other, you know, reporting or whatever, but it was really just so I could write album reviews. And uh so the idea was like right then and there, it was like these just seemed like two sides of the same thing. And I would read music magazines because I liked writing about music and I liked reading about it. Um and and I liked making music and I read those things to learn more about what making music entails. And so uh so the the the connection was there right away too. Uh and so, you know, like I said, the overlap is considerable and uh and I haven't always known how to, you know, sort of detangle the two things. Um and now I don't really want to.

SPEAKER_01 51:37

So Yeah. I I agree with you. And I I mean, as far as as having like two roles that can be intertwined and inextricably linked, music criticism and songwriting are are handmaidens, I think. And so I know that it just like it's just more convenient to be able to put you into this little box that says Jason, JPW, uh you know, not the rapper, you know, is a songwriter or he is a music critic. Um but you know, you're both. And I actually, you know, and I want to ask you, um, gosh, about the the great state of music criticism. I I mean, um, which uh is not really all that great currently. Like, I mean, it's almost impossible to not sort of be a multi-hyphenate when you work in the music space, either as a critic or as a songwriter. And I mean, you know, most of us have uh, you know, a third heat that we have to bring in in the form of a day job that, you know, is corporate or, you know, um, I work as a copywriter uh for Fender, which is, you know, still in the music space, but definitely, you know, um more um better funded. Um, but you know, like so anyway, again, because this is a literary podcast and you have written for Southwest Review and and a bunch of other places that I've also written for, but you're mostly at uh Aquarium Junkard now. Um how are you feeling about music criticism? I mean, Pitchfork just announced their subscription model uh to polarizing uh effect. Um you know, AD is, I think, largely paywalled at this point. You know, everybody's got a sub stack. Um it's you know, it's it's it's an interesting time to be writing criticism. And um it's also kind of it feels a bit dire. Um and I just was wondering if you had any any takes on, you know, where we're at. I don't know. I brought this up when I was talking to Ann Powers. Um, Kalefa Sinai wrote this great article in The New Yorker about how music criticism really doesn't exist anymore. There are no more bad reviews, um, you know, because like it's just too hard to do it and it it's not remunerative in the way that it used to be. Um and like sort of um the critic as autor is kind of a dying breed. Um and maybe that's not terrible. I mean, I love Bob Chris Gow and I, you know, um am very respectful of Griel Marcus, but you know, like it just, you know, those are kind of the remaining guys, you know, and I it's it's just a totally different thing nowadays. So what's um what what's your your uh your hot take It's tough.

SPEAKER_02 54:43

It's tough to know what to say because, you know, like I said, there was always for me a desire to know more about the people who make the music that I love, and a desire to understand them more, and a desire to have more context for their work. And so, you know, I think that there will probably always be people who want that, who want more uh of an understanding of the world in which the music that they love exists. And that might not look like the record reviews of your uh and it might not look like uh sort of the you know, Cameron Crow, almost famous style, you know, rock and roll reporter. I have like you, I mean I've always had other jobs and I've always had stuff to pay the bills, you know. I worked for uh Zia Records, which is a chain of record stores, and I did everything from you know driving records across state lines to uh you know working in the marketing department and doing purchasing and all that stuff. And now I work for a company called Hello Merch, which makes you know merch for bands and artists. And so uh, you know, so I've always had I've always had to to work uh you know, wear different hats in order to sort of like also do these other things that I care about. Um, the paywall at at Pitchfork, it it it's like I long and miss the days of the free internet where everything is accessible to everybody. For sure. Uh Aquarium Drunkard was that way for a really, really, really long time. And the podcast is still that way. You know, we keep the podcast, um, it's not behind a paywall. And the idea there is sort of that it's like an overture to people. Here's a a thing you can engage with. Um but yeah, you know, it's it's it's it's it's a drag that we have to have paywalls, um, but at the same time, I don't know what else really you can do, you know, in terms of like reminding people that this stuff uh uh takes effort and labor to create. And so um, you know, it's a real it's a real tricky and dicey place that we find ourselves right now. And you know, I have a Substack and I have a really hard time putting the paywall up for myself. Um probably due to some uh internal complications that I need to work out about the worth of my own work. Sure.

unknown 57:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:50

So there's that full disclosure, you know. But um but also because I just I I know people want to read stuff and I know people want access to this stuff, and I just I don't think the average person can have, you know, 200 substacks that they pay for. And, you know, um and then if they do, how do they find time to read it all? You know, the attention economy is is is really, really dicey. And so I guess, you know, I don't have any great hot takes or big, you know, th thoughts about the the the um state of things. I think that good writing is worth paying for. I think Aquarium Drunkard is a worthwhile subscription, and I think that we work really hard to make sure that we're putting the kind of stuff that is worth something up there and that you know uh that you're also getting access to twenty years worth of of great stuff, you know, when you when you subscribe. So so I think that good writing is worth is worth paying for. But I also think that um for better or worse, my my thoughts tend my thought tends to just be um try not to for me, it's it's like don't worry too much about how big the audience is. Uh look for people who resonate who your work seems to mean something for. Write for them and write to create, you know, genuine connections and you know, a form of community online versus um, you know, uh really um like amassing a big audience. But I don't know, I'd love to make a living from my sub stack or whatever, you know. I like writing stuff there. And so it's a tension, a constant tension that is um that takes I think, you know, I st I still need to untangle some for myself. But I do think that if somebody creates uh creates value and brings more insight and thought to the music that you love or the art that you love, that that's something to, you know, um really value and treasure. And so, you know, your work does that for me. I read your stuff and I get a deeper appreciation for the art that you're writing about. And so, you know, that's a uh I guess kind of a a pretty sacred thing. And so uh it's tough to know how to create the monetary exchange necessary to facilitate that. But I think also just recognizing when somebody's work does that for you and then letting them know can be a really helpful thing. So I tell people constantly, like, believe it or not, if you send an email to somebody who wrote something you like and you tell them this helped or was good or this brought something to me, believe it or not, it makes a huge difference, and they don't hear it as often as you might think they do. So, you know, um so yeah, I don't know. I don't feel like I had a a good response or answer there, but I just it's it's it's a tough thing to know. Uh it's it's a tough thing to know how to to figure out, and I don't know I don't know if uh certainly the sort of consumer guide style music criticism is not thing uh not a thing that people seem to need as much, but I do think people still want deeper engagement with their art and they want people to spend time writing and thinking about things in a way that helps them deepen their own engagement with art. So um I don't think that that desire has has gone away, if anything, there's probably more of it, and it might even be more helpful now when there's like a million things to listen to. So everybody has to be, you know, part writer, part curator, part DJ, part whatever. And like you said, it's a multi-hyphenate thing. So I, you know, it's a tough thing to know how to do it, but I think if people lead with their heart and their genuine taste first and foremost, it'll connect with somebody, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:12

Um yeah, I I I I also don't have the answer. Um and that's why I'm kind of asking. Damn it.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:19

I was really hoping you were gonna be able to help me figure this out.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:22

No, I mean, I I I'm trying my best just to be as optimistic as possible and kind of move through the gyrations and fluctuations and hope that, you know, we don't lose the art and the medium in the process. Like that's my biggest fear is, you know, I I have read um, you know, just commenters uh from people who are the most surprising at all, music fans and people who make music who are, you know, kind of like, well, now that everything's on Spotify, you can just decide for yourself what you like. And I, you know, I think that's a perfectly fair assessment, but it's also like, wow, you must spend an awful lot of time just, you know, deciding which JPW you prefer. Um, you know, is it do you like the rapper or do you like the song, you know, the singer-songwriter? And, you know, this guy's really got a lot of going on. Um, and and so, you know, and and I do think that that criticism is is a very helpful um way to sort of parse, you know, art and and and I don't want it to go away, but I also, you know, kind of have to, you know, understand that that you know it has to adjust to the market and and what the market will bear. And so, you know, you know, the the the changing of the guard at pitchfork, you know, I still write for them. Um, and you know, I'm I'm hoping that it will become a place where, you know, like the comment section, yeah, I there's there's no avoiding it having, you know, trolls who are going to say terrible things and reduce the score of a record, you know, just for the sake of being an agent provocateur or whatever. Um that might be even giving them too much credit. But like, you know, that that perhaps like you give voice to somebody who wouldn't otherwise be able to express an opinion and have a conversation about something. So as I say, I'm just trying to be as optimistic as possible. That's the only way that I can kind of go on. Um, other than that, I don't have any answers. Um, but I do think that if you keep your writing up and I'll keep mine, um, at least there's two of us still fighting the good fight. And I do think there are others out there who are still making it happen and who are still vital voices. Um, and they keep they keep emerging. So I don't think that there's really any, you know, just killing the whole um form yet.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:53

Um I don't think so. And I also think optimism is a uh is a very worthwhile endeavor. And uh and that I don't know, that to succumb to the pessimism of of the age is easy, but um not all that helpful. And I think that uh I think there are a lot of good reasons to be optimistic. And I think there's also a lot of incredible writing about music.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:23

I think maybe one way forward is that in order to cut through the noise, you do have to bring a specific angle to what you're doing, right? And if that means you know, I find your work deeply poetic, and I don't think everybody aspires for poeticism in their in their music journalism. And maybe not everybody should, but you should, because that makes your voice that much more singular, you know, and I've tried to focus in on, especially for my writing on Substack uh and uh uh with transmissions, you know, I've tried to kind of come at it from a more spiritual. angle and to try to bring that to the table because I don't think everybody's doing that. Yeah. And I think that if I think I guess that's what I mean is like uh in an age of algorithmic sort of like reducing to the mean, one thing we can all do is try to find the um ways to use our voice that are more singular and that aren't what everybody's doing.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:24

Try to bring something to the table that is unique to you. And uh and and there are I mean lots of writers that are doing that right now to incredible effect. And so you know there's more incredible music writing out there and more varied music writing out there than ever before. And it can it can get easy to feel uh absolutely defeated these days. But I I think it's a mistake to to to do that because I think there's actually better and more varied and more in-depth and more thoughtful music writing out there than we've ever had access to. And so that's something to be celebrated. And uh and uh now the fact that nobody can manage to get paid for it is a problem and we gotta figure that out. But uh but the problem is not that there's that there's a lack of great writing out there. And who knows some of those sometimes I go through I'll do a thing on so on social media every now and then that I call blessed YouTube comments. And you know you'll like look through the comments on a on a YouTube video and you can find some of the most heartbreaking and beautiful and thoughtful and moving comments about music from you know whatever H7924 you know who leaves a comment that just like breaks your heart.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:47

Yeah you know um and that's a reminder that like uh people feel deeply about things and uh and them having the ability to chime in with their own thought uh you know it it can it can be it can be beautiful it can be yes uh it can also be deeply annoying and when somebody says you know you're an idiot you don't know anything about this uh that sucks but um but that's not the only kind of people out there who who might leave comments I I a hundred percent agree and that's what I'm saying it's like you know if you open up a comment section you probably will get some of these blessed comments of of why music is beautiful so as I say you know lead with your heart lead with optimism it sounds like that's what we're both doing um so anyway thanks for thanks for weighing in on that um I'll add it to my to my list of of answers that have got to that question um I wanted to to just go back to uh to the record for for a couple more questions if that's okay first of all yeah you're doing this on your own label you've seized the means of production what drove that decision oh well you know I had an awesome time working with uh the my friends at Fort Lowell Records who put out the last two JPW projects and put out a I played it in a uh guitar in a band called Kitimoto and put out their record too so Fort Lowell uh was is just a great label um and big big love to James and Tracy at Fort Lowell for all their support but I guess I just you know it was always in the back of my head I should start my own label and I should do my my own thing and there was just this strong desire with this record I just wanted to do it myself.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:39

I wanted to bring it all the way there myself and uh and so it was sort of a put your money where your mouth is thing and uh I just I just wanted to to step forward and say I'm a I I really believe in this record. I believe in this record so much that I'm willing to to to to go all the way with it on my own. And I I loved Fort Lowell as partners and certainly am always open to you know collaborative relationships with entities that can help get my music to more people but I really just I wanted to uh I just wanted to take this one to the finish line myself for some reason. And uh and when I felt that uh you know my uh fear and imposter syndrome kicked in and uh and I thought well is another good way to confront that all the way too you know what I mean and uh and so that was sort of that's sort of as simple as it is I just I really felt called with this one to to to go all the way with it and to uh and to create uh an entity to put it out in the world and so you know certainly open to working with other artists and hopefully you know um that can happen down the road but really this label did come into existence so I could put this record out you know and uh and that's the sort of the the main goal and uh but yeah that's that's is it's I just wanted to do it. I wanted to do it myself. I wanted to um I wanted to honor the work of my collaborators in a way you know so and and it sounds like it has worked out so far for you. Yeah we still have some more records to sell but uh but yeah it's it's I mean it's it's an incredible feeling for me to put this out and to have it uh you know to have people start have started to engage with the songs and and to hear them and to you know it it's it's it's worked out absolutely and uh and just having this record exist it feels like uh like a big you know win for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:51

But yeah it's it's it's I will I just wanted to I wanted to be yeah fully personal with it you know well I applaud you for it because I you know like I I work with a label um I know people who have done their own lay you know started their own labels self-released and each comes with its own you know host of challenges but also big rewards so I hope it it errs on the side of big rewards for you rather than challenges but it sounds like you're enjoying the process which is which is probably the most important thing. So for you know my final question I thought maybe I'd ask about one more song on the record if that's okay. So um there is a song on the record called The Season Has Arrived and I want you to tell me a little bit about this tune you know it's Durango there's fluctuations in a parking lot you're second guessing everything that you've been doubting. For me it feels like the spiritual lodestar of the record and it you know in some ways I feel like it's clear enough from the news currently that the season has arrived and um it's just a it's just a great song and um we're hanging in the balance of the reality of man. And how does that feel for you and can you you know tell me just a little bit more about what this this song means to you what it was like writing it and um am I am I totally off base here with my interpretations?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:31

No you're not you're not at all uh you know it's that song kind of came together sitting uh on my porch in the backyard I had my guitar and I just started kind of writing uh writing that there's a a thing that happens for me every year where the summers in Arizona are very long and they are not uh mild. Uh and Arizonans at least I do uh deal with our own version of like seasonal depression and for me that's the summer uh but once the autumn finally shows up and there's a little relief uh I feel like a huge shift in my my mental health state you know the state of my mental health and so the season has arrived is sort of about that it's sort of about that feeling of like relief that comes when uh the the worst of the heat has passed for a while. So that's part of it but it's also just sort of about you know so much of this record ended up sort of being about cycles and the cyclical nature of of reality and of our lives and you know the seasons are a beautiful illustration of that that they they come and they come with some reliability. In a time of you know climate change there are complications and that's also kind of in the song too you know uh water is a huge theme on this record and water in the desert is a very precious commodity. But I'm talking about you know the growing up in Coolidge there would be these times where we would have significant rains and the Gila River which was normally uh dry would flow you know for periods of time and uh and so it's sort of about that too sort of seeing flowing water in the desert uh which is such a precious sight and the song is sort of about it's sort of about all of that. It's sort of about like recognizing that uh that that with the seasons come change and with change comes possibility for good, for bad for things in the middle, you know, complicated zones where it's a little of both. And and and that song is sort of yeah it's sort of about allowing yourself to to hang in there long enough to see things you know uh morph and and change in front of your eyes. And so that's sort of what that that song is about. And uh and it is sort of the spiritual lodestar of the record. It's the it's the song that closes it and I think in some ways it's it's the most hopeful song on the record and it's uh it's maybe the one that I'm I mean I'm proud of all of them but I'm re I'm really proud of the way that one came together and uh I'm really proud of what everybody brought to it. And uh so yeah it you know and then as far as the sort of more um the broader implications we definitely are uh in a time where the season has arrived uh a season of pretty intense uh struggle and and strife right now uh but I really hope and I believe that uh that we're we're sort of um going through the the the necessary clashes that are hopefully going to put people in mind of of recognizing our solidarity and our need to to come together and uh reject things that are antithetical to who we want to be. And uh and so, you know, I don't tend to write with that stuff like top line, but it it's definitely kind of roiling under the under the surface. And so I'm utterly blown away to hear you bring your interpretation to it. That's absolut that's been the best part of putting this stuff out there is when people talk to me about what they think the songs mean, like I'm always like yeah you're right. I hadn't thought about that but you're right you know and that's the best feeling in the world and so to hear you bring your your um your critical attention to the song like that is just really moving to me. And so I I'm I'm psyched that you that you heard that in it.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:28

Oh well I am psyched that I got to hear the song and interpret it because it's it's a beautiful song, beautiful record, um one that you should be proud of and one of probably my best of 2026. Now I know it's still very early but it's gonna be up there. And so I do hope that everyone checks it out. And I don't know Jason what's next for you?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:56

I don't know maybe I have to write a real book now and not do a vintage contemporaries cover on it. But um yeah I don't know I've got I mean I've got more music to to put out into the world and uh yeah uh beyond that got more writing definitely have some some thoughts uh as far as as a as a more of a long form thing you know um there's a lot of things I still still want to do in terms of putting stuff out into the world but um we'll see we'll see what comes next I'm right now I'm kind of like it's kind of a weird thing because I'm used to having like a lot more of the next record already done. Right, right. Uh and this is the first time in a long time that that's not the case. You know what I mean? Like I don't have uh a lot more of a record done. So uh we'll see what happens. But um in that space right now there's a lot of uh possibility for me and I'm kinda kind of just like trying to live with that you know what I mean the uncertainty and say well let's see where the spirit leads you next and uh so I'm open to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:04

Wonderful. Um well thanks so much for talking to me today and as always you know I'm a big fan so uh it's been my honor to speak with you and uh I I I like I said I just can't wait for the world to hear your record.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:19

Well thank you so much. I'm a huge fan of yours as well. I've been looking forward to this for a long time and I'm so glad that we were able to make it happen and thank you for your your kind attention and your insight and it just means the world to me. So thank you so much Elizabeth thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:38

That was me and the always delightful Jason P. Woodbury putting the world to rights I didn't get to ask him which member of Crosby Stills and Nash he would most like to jam with but I think we probably already know the answer to that question anyway. In the meantime grab a copy of Jason P. Woodbury and the Nightbird Singing Quartet and give that platter a spin. It's worth it just for the cover art alone. Check out his podcast transmissions and subscribe to Aquarium drunkard and subscribe to Jason Studstack Range and Basin or roll the dice and Google JPW and see whose music comes up there is a whole universe out there for you to discover anyway thanks for checking out my podcast and associates thanks to New Pony for letting me do the show thanks to Clay Jones for mixing the episode and thanks to Greg Brounderville Bobby Ray and Hannah Smith for producing it like Hoboken's own Francis Albert Sinatra says I'll be seeing you