Episode 6: Graham Parker

In episode five of Known Associates, a podcast brought to you by New Pony in affiliation with Southwest Review, the Paranoid Style frontwoman and cultural critic Elizabeth Nelson talks to Graham Parker, the legendary singer-songwriter, who released an incredible run of critically acclaimed and beloved records from 1976 to 1979, including Howlin’ Wind, Heat Treatment, and Squeezing Out Sparks, and he hasn’t stopped putting out albums and touring since. This year marks the fiftieth anniversary of Howlin’ Wind as well as Heat Treatment, and it seemed like the right time to sit down and get to know the man behind the music.

During their conversation Elizabeth and Graham talk about the moment when he realized he could write songs, what that was like, his early years, and how he cultivated his young talent to become the songwriting powerhouse he is today (4:55). They also discuss how he got involved with his crackerjack band the Rumour, which featured a murderers’ row of pub rock luminaries (19:25), and they discuss the producers he worked with on his ’70s LPs (24:27). Elizabeth and Graham then get into the iconic Stiff Records legacy and his tangential relationship to the label, and how Stiff co-founder Dave Robinson was integral to his career, but also how Graham didn’t fit into the Stiff Records Punk/New Wave mold. They also discuss how his undeniable talent kept him writing, despite the challenges that every touring musician confronts (32:00). They take a detour into a conversation about Lowell George and Little Feat, a person and a band that mean a lot to both Elizabeth and Graham, and how the Feats and George influenced Parker’s own writing style (39:30). They get back into Parker’s career with a discussion about how he opened for Bob Dylan during a couple of different Dylan tours (46:13), plus how Graham feels when other artists cover his songs (51:47). Elizabeth then asks him about his controversial song “You Can’t Be Too Strong,” the tune’s origin story, and its reception over the years (57:17). Finally, they talk about Graham’s upcoming US tour, his soon-to-be-announced live album, Jay Nachman’s book Graham Parker’s Howlin' Wind, and what Graham’s future holds (1:05:40).

You can listen to Graham Parker anywhere you stream music, buy his records at your local shops, and keep up with him at his website. Also, be sure to check out Jay Nachman’s book Graham Parker’s Howlin' Wind. Subscribe to Known Associates and check out Southwest Review’s website. Pick up a subscription to the magazine while you’re at it!

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Elizabeth Nelson is a DC-based journalist and singer-songwriter in the band the Paranoid Style. She also hosts the New Pony/Southwest Review podcast Known Associates, where she speaks to fellow writers, artists, and musicians. Her new album—also titled Known Associates—was released on Bar/None Records in February 2026. 

(mixed by Clay Jones)

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:10

Hello! It's me, Elizabeth Nelson, and this is my podcast, Known Associates, produced by New Pony. If you're new here, where have you been? Probably somewhere good, I assume. Anyway, please allow me to introduce myself. I'm Elizabeth, and I'm the singer-songwriter for the band The Paranoid Style, and also a cultural critic whose work appears in the New York Times magazine, The Ringer, The New Yorker, The Atlantic, and most importantly, the Southwest Review, the publication who makes this podcast possible. Today's episode of Known Associates is a very, very exciting and special one for me. I am talking with Graham Parker, one of my songwriting heroes and true inspirations, and one of the great songwriters to emerge from England during the mid to late 70s. An incredibly fertile time for fantastic music coming from the UK. Maybe some of you know Parker for classic tunes like Between You and Me, Don't Ask Me Questions, or Local Girls. Or maybe you have yet to discover his work, in which case I envy you, because you are in for a life-changing treat. Along with his Cracker Jack band The Rumor, featuring heavy hitters like Brindley Schwartz, Martin Belmont, and Steve Golding. Parker was amongst the crowd that turned music on its ear in the late 70s, along with Elvis Costello, Nick Lowe, Ian Dury, and Reckless Eric. Graham shared some of the influence and sensibility of some of those other artists, but wrote with a specific literary flair reminiscent of Bob Dylan and played a kind of northern soul which made him sound like London's answer to Van Morrison. And throughout the course of a near six-decade career, he has never flagged or wavered, writing one brilliant, tough-hearted song after another while still going strong at 75. Over the course of an hour or so, we touched upon his working class upbringing, his incredible experiences meeting and playing with the cream of the music industry, and how it is that all of his tireless labor has brought him to a place of sincere gratitude. Speaking of gratitude, that is all I feel for the opportunity to speak with this bona fide legend on the occasion of the 50th anniversary of his ingenious debut LP, Howling Wind. Ladies and gentlemen, if the rumors are true, here is me and new known associate, Graham Parker. Hey Graham, how are you?

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Hello there, Elizabeth. All right, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

Great. Um How are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 2:56

All right, where are you?

SPEAKER_03 2:58

I am in um McLean, Virginia, which is right outside of DC. My understanding is that you're in London right now.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

I am in London, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

How is that going?

SPEAKER_00 3:10

How is it going? Um I don't know. I just walk around the neighborhood and um walk the neighbor's dog and go up to the parks. I mean, a nice green part of London, made a veil. It's very beautiful. Um, all a bit cashmere y for me these days, but you know, that's the crowd you get in these parts that are wealthy. They're all wealthier than me now, but there you go. Are you? It's a bit I've had a place here for many, many years that you know it was often rented out and what have you. So um, yeah, it's all right. It's um jolly old London. Ho ho ho.

SPEAKER_03 3:46

Are you um planning to stay there for a little while, or is this just a winter?

SPEAKER_00 3:52

No, I spend uh most of my year now in London.

SPEAKER_03 3:55

Oh, that's great. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

I'm an international man of misery, basically.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

That's perfect. Um well, so I know part of the reason, a big reason why we're here today, is because you have not one, but two huge anniversaries coming up this year. Uh one this spring for your debut record, Hell and Wind. Um which uh is I I believe the reason why I was approached to uh to talk to you about this because there's a biography um that's coming out as well. And it might be out already, actually, by Jay Knackman.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Oh, the the book?

SPEAKER_03 4:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Yes, Jay Knackman's book, uh Grahampa's Hell and Wind. It's been out for a while now. It's on Amazon for you know, so it's out there.

SPEAKER_03 4:43

Um so like before we go kind of deep on your whole career, uh Hell and Wind was was you're really your first record, the one that you kind of came out of the gate swinging. Um but I wanted to just ask you like can you remember what inspired you to write your first song? Like, do you remember what it was like the first time you heard, you know, Van Morrison or Sam Cooke or The Small Faces?

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Um my first song I was uh 12 or 13.

unknown 5:16

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

It was when the Beatles came out, and it was like a Beatles song. I've I've sung it a few times to people. Um it went, yeah, well, you went away, and I was so sorrowful. Won't you come back? Ooh, okay, won't you come back? I mean, I didn't really play and know how to play it properly, but I wrote it, and uh I don't know any more of it, but I remember I remember that much. Um and then I um yeah, and I I I was always it's once they, you know, you got your your second-hand guitar from your cousin once the once the beat groups came along, 62, 63, beat groups came along, or people my age 12, 13, suddenly had our own music. It wasn't um my cousin who was a bit old, it wasn't Elvis Presley, it wasn't Buddy Holly, which I thought was all a bit hokey, you know, even then. Um they came out, the beat groups came along, that was it, and everybody got an instrument, every kid, you know, or or a great deal of us. Um so uh but then I, you know, got on with exploring life, you know, from a working class point of view, did loads of jobs, and then you know, I got to my teenage years and left England for the island of Guernsey and then then back from there to England again, working in factories, making some money, off to Morocco like the Beats did, because that's what they did, so I was going to do that stuff as well. Um, but it was it was that far back. I obviously had a great affinity for music, and uh nothing original about that, but I could also put a tune together pretty quickly, as you could tell by that tune. It's not bad, you know.

SPEAKER_03 7:00

I thought it was great.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 7:03

Um, so so you realize that you had this ability to write a song, um, which I I mean must have been a great feeling. Um, and not only that, that you could compete with the Beatles.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Um Yeah, when I was 13, not quite. My one problem is I didn't learn to play properly and I was too lazy, and all my friends were exactly the same. We just wanted the look, the Beetle haircuts. That was it. But uh yeah, but the music was there from a long, long before that. It was always something that compelled me to listen to the radio for to Bing Crosby and Doris Day in particular. I remember being moved by her voice uh on the on the old transistor radio as a very very young kid. So and and we had our own brilliant sort of white soul singer like Doris Day in the form of um oh, what was her name? She sang, There'll be bluebirds over the white cliffs of Dover. Vera Lynn. Uh-huh. Vera Lynn, look her up, listen to the listen to that song. It's absolutely different hell of a voice. So all those things are there, they're moving, you know, and um they they did things for me. But once you got your fashion statement as a kid, then it's like, here we go. We can do this. These key, these guys are just up the road. The Beatles aren't that far away. You know, they're they're um and uh the stones were just up the road in London. I was, you know, grew up in the suburbs at 30 miles south of London. Uh so uh it was a sort of natural thing, and uh music thrived in the suburbs of Britain, you know. We were going out and watching black American soul blues acts and soul acts. I mean, I was 15. They they thrived here because they couldn't get arrested in America because America didn't understand, didn't know what the blues was for some weird reason. Are you kidding me? So but but Britain and Europe, we were all over that, you know. It was the sort of college kids who were older than me turned me on to this kind of these kind of things, and I'd it was already there anyway, those the the blues and the soul, it was it was all in the the the beat music, you know, the the beat groups as you uh as they were called. So it was um i you couldn't you couldn't get away from it, it was normal.

SPEAKER_03 9:20

Yeah. So we get to like the 70s, I guess. I I don't know when you, you know, like well, obviously you started writing when you were a teenager, but you know, you have this record in you, you have Hal and Wend in you, you've got this raft of great, great songs. Um you know, like and I mean, in my opinion, great songs. Um I I I was just writing, I was looking at the track listing today. Um Back to School Days Between You and Me, Don't Ask Me Questions. I mean, these are these are you know mini masterpieces in my opinion. And um can you like talk about like the creative role that you were on that point? Because like I said later that year, you know, you um you put out uh heat treatment, yeah, and uh, which is also a fantastic record. So did you feel unstoppable? I mean, were they, you know, was it just impossible to contain the muse? Um, where were these songs coming from and how did that feel?

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Well, it's it's just a sort of um a lot of living, I suppose, without really being anything special. I just a working class guy, but um it it just came from uh as much as anything, the leaving England, the suburbs of England there was a bit stifling. And going to basically, I lived in on Guernsey in the Channel Islands, which is a little island group, very, very French influenced uh there, and lots of travelers came there. There were I suddenly I'm thrust into a place where there's Irish people, there's uh people from up north. Um, not and they're where I grew up, it was all soldiers. They were from up north, but they were idiots. So there were these these different kinds of people uh with all kinds of different experiences, and Americans, a few Canadians came to these islands. You could get a job easy. I got jobs just like that. Um, rent somewhere for next to nothing. Um, I tell my kids about this, they're so envious. You didn't need money. You really didn't need, you could do a lot of things, you can get anywhere. Um, you know, Paris, you could live for months in a pension for pennies, really, and then you know, off I went to Morocco where you did the same kind of thing. Um it was uh very it was very different, and it was a much freer world to travel around in as well, uh, where you're not thought of as a terrorist or a criminal whenever you cross a border or whatever it is going on at all the time now. So it was um all of that experience, I think. It's a it it just helped me um get a very rounded musical sense of life because there was there was the you know, as I say, it all stemmed from those beat groups who they had the influence of soul, blues, um, pop. Uh it was just everything was there to bounce off, and all those forms existed in some way, and most of it came from America, the growth, the vast majority. So I was just tuned into that always, but I just spent very little time playing guitar and learning. I it was just to hear, it was all the whole thing was in here, it was like a movie really going on. But um after Morocco is when I I I I was living in Gibraltar and decided, okay, I'm not gonna hitchhike back, that's gonna take me six months. So I flew flew on my first flight back to England, went back to my parents like any good boy, you know. There I am, 21 by now. Uh real waste of time. I mean, basically, I was a guy who was going nowhere. That's what they they were they they weren't worried, they were very supportive by parents, but they must have thought, well, you know, he's not going anywhere, he's gonna work in a supermarket or something. Great, that's all they did. They were just working class people, so it was no stretch. But um, I had other plans because I was just writing at a furious rate by that time, after all these experiences and all that, mostly a bit psychedelic. It was all that was the era that my songs were based in, quite frankly. Um, but then uh but there was all this other stuff. I had everything else. I joined a band in Gibraltar and we took the band to um to Morocco, which is an absurd thing to do. A bunch of freaks, you know, um playing this psychedelic stuff. Um, and we we got get we got a gig there, something like a some kind of belly dancing club, it was like, but there was nobody, nobody came apart from a couple. This weird couple came to our gigs um and danced in a sort of sexual way, but that's just bizarre. They were they were an English couple, they were just and they were straight, you could tell they'd never smoked a spliff in their life, but they they had this the idiot dancing going on. So that was our audience, and that was uh those guys were real freaks, and they weren't sort of gonna ever progress out of it. Um, I found out the the band I'd joined, I'd you know, these guys knew I could play uh and was playing at this little basement club where nobody came either, just the band and me. It seemed just like that, and the barman who played endlessly in a gut at a Vida or every night, which I at the time it was like, wow, prog rock, you know, serious. And only now that was probably the worst example of prog progressive rock in the history of the world. Uh, but there you go, it had its own thing. And and the group were called Nazis, and then then they renamed themselves Pegasus. Oh my god. And I was starting to get out of this by this time. I wanted more light humor or something, I wanted more uh major chords because there was a lot of minor chord noodling. So I I said, why don't we play this? And I taught them in the in the midnight hour, Wilson Pickett, which was totally alien to them. They didn't, you know, they didn't realize there were songs that that had that kind of funky beat. And they they were okay in it, they weren't so bad. And they're all major chords, even the descending down, down, down, down, down. There's no minors there uh that you can noodle through. You can't jam on it, you have to do it, you know. And I I renamed the man, the band Terry Burbot's Magic Mud, which sounds more psychedelic than anything. At the time, I thought it was kind of you know, kind of I don't know, sartorial or something. But so we went there and then came back, and that that was it for me. So on a plane I went and got back to England. All these life experiences, and just I was writing a great deal. Once I was in Guernsey after the psychedelic, I got a hip to that, you know. Uh that'll do things for you. So I was writing like mad, trying to express this uh extraordinary um new inner world that I just discovered. So that was as as instrumental in it as hearing the Supremes in 1964, you know, all of it was. And uh, you know, when I got back to England, I just vowed that I would work menial jobs and never travel again unless I got paid for it as a professional musician. The the, you know, as I always like to say, that was the most rash statement I can imagine, but that was the statement I had in my head, and I pulled it off. You know, four years later, uh I realized I've got to get break into some, I've got to meet people in London, because the suburbs of England, I was, you don't meet they they were still in prog rock, and I was way beyond that into sort of uh what I would always consider to be multi-influenced pop songs. That's what I always consider my work to be, and I consider myself a variety act as well. Um, you know, the labeling is natural and um categorization is natural in human beings. Um, but uh it I was, you know, from back to school days to uh Don't Ask Me Questions, it's all there on the first album to uh to basically a jazz RB tune, which could have been written many years before, Lady Doctor. You know, just check out how that's played and what what the song is. It's it's old. So I was just kicking that up into the modern times. Uh and Van Morrison. I discovered him at some point way after um Astral Weeze came out. I really didn't know he was doing these kind of things. Everybody knew them from Hold Back the Night and Gloria, those amazing things. So there was another um sort of wow, this guy is basically sort of singing like a soul jazz singer, and that's what suddenly I was trying to, I was doing that as well. Uh I'd gotten away from trying to sing in a psychedelic mode, which was a bit middle class English, you know. Um so it so I got I just got got to my working class element, but um, and just used these styles that were they were just embedded.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

And and and it was that time I was around 23, yeah, 24. And you should have you should have a record deal by now if you're going to.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

But it wasn't, it wasn't like 1960s where the Beatles was 18 and 17, and these it was a bit later on, and and you didn't have to be that young anymore. And so I just kept plugging away and met the right people, and boom, that's it. I'd written the songs. Back to school days was the most instrumental one in making me think I've just taken something old, brought it up to date, and it's angry. It's about the working, it it you know takes in the working class um the uh class system education, which we were all funneled into as kids.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Um so I I just had a great deal of material all in here, and now what I had to do was learn to play. That was the missing ingredient, which meant a lot of hours in my childhood bedroom, and whenever I got to London in squats, you know, living in squats in London, there'd be a room, and you know, play quietly, just keep playing and playing and writing and writing. Eventually, kid, you know, you never know. But I I I didn't know. That's the thing. I didn't know. I thought I'd missed the boat. I was like 24, but I'd written the, I was written these, I'd written these songs, and um, well, I hadn't missed it at all, it turned out. So you know, I got lucky and instantly got a record deal. As soon as somebody heard it, I got a record deal. Kaboom.

SPEAKER_03 19:27

That I mean I mean, and well, because now you had um you had you had hooked up with the band that would become the rumor, uh, which was a lot of the members of uh Brinsley Schwartz and and Ducks Deluxe, uh, you know, these kind of great players, um, a lot of skills. Um how did that come about? And uh, I mean, what a what a fantastic band to have backing you and and I think the right band for these records.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Oh, that's yeah, they were there's uh I mean I'd never heard of any of those guys. Uh I didn't, you know, pub rock was not a thing anybody had heard about as far as I knew. Then I, you know, once I met those people, I realized there was this kind of whatever you call it, a subculture of people just playing what we call now Americana or roots music generally. Um I didn't know anything about that, and nobody I ever met ever did either. But um, there they were, and they turned out to be people who had played my kind of styles of music. It was embedded in them. And it was basically an advert in the Melody Maker paper, uh, looking for musicians, you know, the usual thing in those days, no breadheads, you know, must have must have own equipment. I don't know. I was looking for a band, yeah, you know, into vans, the stones, Dylan. I didn't know what else to put because it was somewhere in that area, you know. Um, and I met a guy named Noel Brown in in uh drove up to London and uh met this guy, and he could play my stuff. He was really good, slide guitar, Dobro, and I had songs like um uh Not If It Pleases Me, which is on the first album, bluesy stuff. That was really a blues, blues tune as much as anything. He could play all that, he thought it was great. He brought a friend round who's a bass player who happened to be someone who'd made been uh in the Chili Willy in the Red Hot Peppers and alleged pub rock band. They'd made records, they toured. I'd even seen them in '74 because there was this band called Dr. Feel Good. Yeah. And I'd I'd seen pictures of them, and I thought, yeah, I'm starting to look like that. Straight trousers, no flares, you know, and intense. I wanted an intensity. Get away from the freak days, it's gone. You know, it'll always live on, but it's gone, you know, for from it was gone for me musically. And so um I'd seen them on stage in '74, and I I met him, and he said, I I you're gonna meet this guy, Dave Robinson.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Dave Robinson was a manager of Brinsley Schwartz and and other those other he knew all of those people who played it, you know. Ian Drury, he'd managed him for a bit, he'd helped them all out, all and he had a studio, demo studio. That's That's where he was. All those bands seemed to have split up. It seemed to be a scene that was there that I missed, but was now gone. And so he knew those guys. He'd put he just said, he just basically slipped them in quietly around me without me realizing it. He knew what I wanted.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

And as he said in the there was a documentary came out years ago, the same time as in the uh Judd Apertow film. Yeah, that came out. And Dave Robinson was very, he's a very sharp guy who susses people out pretty well, gets it wrong sometimes, but sometimes he gets it right. He he said that I had my own version of it. He said Graham always had it. It was like it was he was creating a movie, and we just happened to fit in his movie. My movie was I would go to London and get a record deal. Somebody would it would just happen. And he and Dave said I he I was right, and I was extraordinarily, you know. These things they can I mean, imagine if COVID came along right then.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

How much life could have been different? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Um there, yeah. It was uh and then I had to follow it up because Dave said, but I think we need to record out quickly. It's like, oh, I don't have anything really. I got some old hippie, I got some old hippie crap. And so some of it I actually rewrote. There's a song on heat treatment called Um, what is it called? Something you're going through. Just something you're going through.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

And I turned it into a groove reggae thing, sort of Caribbean style. Right. But it was originally just something you're going through. It was like, Stoner, son, keep your eyes open. It was a really stoner song, really. And I just revamped it and squeezed it on heat treatment, and nobody blinked. So I got a I got away with it. Nice. And then I wrote these new songs in rapid time Fool's Gold, Heat Treatment, Black Honey, one of my favorite compositions ever. A song about nothing, but it's beautiful, the chords and everything. And I couldn't believe it myself. It came out that rec was pretty good. Okay. I didn't want the second one to be anything other than really good. Yeah. That would have been disastrous.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

So I got lucky there. I was just buzzing this stuff, really.

SPEAKER_03 24:19

Such an invigorating thing to hear, you know, that it just was all there. I mean, it it's evident, you know, it doesn't seem forced or overworked or anything. Um I did want to ask you, because on those early records, you're working with some pretty legendary but also like a diverse set of producers. So you've got Nick Lowe, Mutlang, and then Jack Nietzsche.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

Yeah, that's who I am.

SPEAKER_03 24:49

And um, I, you know, I I love them all. Uh they all do their own thing. Um, but I was wondering if you had any, you know, memories of working with with this disparate group or um any studio stories that you wanted to share working with such legendary guys.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Uh well, it they they were all great in their own way. I mean, the the Nick Lowe, another guy I, you know, was in the Brindy Schwartz band. You know, what do I know? I'd never heard of this. Dave, Dave said, I think we should get Nick to produce your record. I thought, well, he's done me okay so far with this backing band, so I'll go along with it. And Nick was just fabulous to work with, you know. I mean, he knew all the guys. It could get tricky when you know all the guys, and you've been on the road with them for years, like he had with those Brindsey Schwartz guys. They were going in 71. They were going when I was in Morocco and before that, even. Uh, and uh, but he was he was fine, he knew what he was doing, you know. You get a good engineer, studio engineer, and we we had a blast. And then this guy Mutt Langer came along, and uh he was a fan. And I think he approached Dave Robinson. He said, I want to produce this guy, you know. I think that was the way it went. And he was uh I'd never heard of him, I don't none of the band had heard of him. Uh and his style was absolutely totally different from Nick Nick's, which and he was a good arranger, so I learned a lot about arranging tunes that you can get a bit more out of them sometimes if you do certain things. Um, you know, a few things I I don't like about that album at the end of the day, but it it doesn't matter, and then stick to me. Um, that was actually going to be that was produced by a guy named Bob Potter, who was an engineer. He um, but it didn't something was wrong with the tapes, and we didn't know until the end oxide was coming off, they were useless, you couldn't mix them. Oh, so it had to be redone. The whole stick to me album had to be redone, and because touring was so important then, we were always touring. Um, now that was my normal life, suddenly from being a guy, you know, working in a gas station and cleaning in the afternoons. I was always touring. Um, and and so we squeezed the album in with Nick Lowe producing in in about a week. It was nothing like the original. But looking back on it now, it was probably more gr a lot of people would die for that grungy sound of stick to me. The first uh the first version of Stick to Me was sort of really anti-punk. It was um because punk had come along by then, and that was that was on the high street now. Everybody knew what that was. Um and and uh Stick to Me was going to be a entirely different thing, entirely cinematic, really big and you know, built up and everything, the opposite to what it came out like because we only had a week to do it now with and Nick. Um his nickname was Nick Basher. Low, bash him down, you know, tart him up later. Yeah, he's a lot more than that, trust me. You know, he's all he is there's a lot more substance to that about Nick and his work, but uh yeah, so we we did that. That was a real basher, that was, you know, just to get it done in a week as if it wasn't important, which is weird. It was, it was my third album, you know. So, but there we oh I had to talk, we had to talk Scandinavia for a week. Got to do it, for goodness sake. Are you kidding me? We should have blown it out and try to do the album again the right way, but anyway, whatever that came out, and then um then it was I'll tell you what happened then with Jack Nietzsche. Now I'm sitting now I'm thinking of it. Uh on the radio was this song called it's it sounded like Mr. Jim, but I now know it's called Spanish Stroll by Mink DeVille.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Do you remember that? Do you remember? Yeah, it was like there was something going on where people were calling uh Jonathan Richmond with Roadrunner, the first new wave record, along with Mink Deville. Yeah, they were kind of stripped down, pop sensibilities, and um Jack Nietzsche had produced this Mink Deville record. Uh I never I heard quite a lot of their other stuff, but I didn't never like any of it, just that that one song. That was it. Um, Jonathan Richmond, I've liked a lot more of his, I think, here and there. But so that so I I said to Dave Robinson, get this guy Jack Nietzsche. Jack Nietzsche had not really heard of me. All he thought was that I was a punk, so I made punk rock. He didn't know. Yeah, he came to London really not knowing what the hell I was.

unknown 29:15

Huh?

SPEAKER_00 29:16

Is this is this punk, you know? And he said, in the end, he ended up calling me smarter than Dylan. It's like, okay, that's not punk, is it? Thank you, thank you, Jay. You're wrong, you're wrong, but I'll take it. He was listening to the lyrics, he listened to Discovery in Japan and said, you know, this stuff is something else. Um and it the squeezing out sparks was, you know, it certainly had something going for it that was a bit. Um basically, I I I must admit that what I what I felt like I was I was catching up with New Wave, which was minimalist music.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Not nothing like my music. My music was dense. Right. I like music like the stones, full of density, you know, acoustic guitars packed with electric, uh, and little you know, percussion things that you don't know are there until someday you hear, oh my god, there's a maracca on that song. Never realized it. There's maracas. Um so but I was catching up with that, which the minimalist style, so I and nothing fitted the horn sections anymore. I'd had horn sections on those three albums, I think.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

And I I just love that. I thought it was just a powerhouse thing, especially on stage. It was incredible. But these songs didn't look like sound like that. They sounded more like they should have been written in 1977, so that I could have, if people called me a new waved act act, it would be right. It would have been right, but it wasn't, it wasn't right at all. And so it just turned out you know, Jack Nietzsche got the hang of it, and he thought it should be less clutter from the band as well. He took them to task after three days of failure because um they weren't playing the songs. He and I said to him, I know I know what they're doing, Jack. It's not right for this. So tell them what to do because you're the producer, right? That's what we're paying you for. So he did. He came in and said, Look, play Gray, play him, play Discovering Japan, play that. I played it on acoustic and he said to the band, Why aren't you doing that?

SPEAKER_03 31:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Why aren't you playing what he's playing? It's all there in those chords. Graham's doing it, just follow him. And so they did, and the album then got done in 11 days.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

Because by then I knew what I was doing much more. My idea of arrangement, so I was more experienced.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

So there you go. It's a great array of producers.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

And usually they sought me out like Mutt Langer did. Jack Nietzsche didn't, but um, there have been many since then, like uh Jack Douglas, who did Another Gray Area, David Kirschhambaum did the real McCaw. They were after me. They liked my work. They were just people who like good music. That's they thought what I did was good, so which is uh a good position. So I went along with most of it.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

It's like, okay, man, you want to do me. You're the first one to come forward. Great, let's go.

SPEAKER_03 32:00

So I know you weren't actually on Stiff Records, but you had a relationship to Stiff Records. Um, uh because you were on Mercury uh initially, right?

SPEAKER_00 32:11

That was well, it was phonogram and Mercury with the American side of it. Okay, okay. So I signed in England with with Phonogram. It came out on the imprint Vertigo, uh-huh. Which had the flying saucer on it. It was like something like a yes album cover. It was ridiculous, a bit out of date, but there you go. And then when and then there was uh and that that was under the Phillips brand. So Mercury had the first choice of picking me up.

SPEAKER_03 32:35

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

And so they did, and they put me out, you know, in July, I think Keat uh Howling Wind came out of this year in America. It finally got out then. Uh lots of press had already picked up on it in America. Um so, but no, it's you know, people always get the history of this wrong. Stiff records did not exist when Howling Wind came out. Right. Um, Dave was always talking about this record company. He'd be in the back of the van with the guys, a few beers, and talking about this record company he wanted to form, sign up all the people in London, all of whom I thought were losers, you know. Um, these these these pub rock people or whatever. What nonsense. So I didn't want anything to do with that. Let him have his fun with his silly label, which of course two two three words happened when that label started getting into action, which was at the end of uh 1976. New wave punk.

SPEAKER_03 33:30

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

Two words happened.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

So Dave found himself making these records, you know, helping these people out, and they were all a bit oddballed. From you know, from Nick to Ian Drew to to whoever, to Declan McManus. They were all a bit, you know, there were people who didn't, they didn't crack it, and they'd been playing. They'd been playing. They'd, you know, they'd had they've some of them made records, Ian Drew and that with uh Kilburn and uh the high roads, but they were all a bit oddball, I suppose, and that suddenly fitted in with New Wave. Yeah, especially, you know, Ian Drury was like 36, and now he's a new wave artist because he's singing in an English accent, always did do. I never sang in an English accent. That really negated me being a punk right there, I think. And so Dave, with his stiff records, and and um his his his partner who started it with him, Jake Riviera. Yeah, you know, these they fell into it right there with that because fashion is more important than music. Um, it is, it just is. You think you you have to ride the wave of fashion. That's the that's the best thing you can do. I never rode the wave because it wasn't there. No, there was no wave for me there. Um, I just did it because pay people heard it and thought this is great, that was it. It was just liked by people because it was liked. So um people knew what it was, so I had a career out of it. But um, it's always good to get a fashion album. So there I am now with this Squeezing Out Sparks album, and suddenly people in America hear it and think that I've this is my first album, and I'm a new wave act. A lot of people thought that, and there's Joe Daxton and Elvis Costello. They thought I was after them. Squeezing out sparks. Suddenly it sells a great deal more than the other records, and it got some play, you know, local girls and stuff like that, and there was this sort of pop new wave thing, don't bother with uh local girls, you know. So, yeah, so suddenly I had um I had another career there, and um nothing was gonna stop me from going on anyway, because I'm too good. Yes, sorry about that, but I am, you know.

SPEAKER_03 35:34

I no, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

I had to think that to get a record deal in the first place. I had to think because I can get real lazy and you know, you can chicken out of it. I knew it was gonna be a really tough task, the hardest thing in my life to be in the record business. I knew it. Yeah, I knew it, and I thought, well, I could just live in the suburbs, marry a barmaid, you know, that that night, the plump one down the road, you know. She I mean, I don't know. You know, she's kind of yeah, she's not so bad. Um, you know, work as a supermarket assistant stacking the goods. Why don't I do that? It'll be so much easier. But then I wrote these songs. Uh, you know, there's don't ask me questions. I said, I can't betray the songs.

SPEAKER_03 36:17

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

So that got me uh that just got me in a shipload of trouble, really. It's been brutality ever since. You know. But it's better than a kick in the head, Elizabeth. That's all I can say. It's better than a kick in the head. There you go.

SPEAKER_03 36:33

Graham, I hope so because you've been doing it for a while now. So uh if if you haven't gotten something good out of it, then uh I would suggest perhaps the supermarket uh might be your next act.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

Um, I'm ready for that, really. Calm down. Calm down a bit. No, I've got a great deal more out of it than if I'd stayed working class of in every single shape and form. So I always think I I'm just plain lucky, however hard the work is, and touring is brutality on a stick, especially when you're 75. You know, I could really do without it. But you get on stage and people are going, yeah, you know, and it's like this best feeling ever. So, you know, that's that's the thing about playing live. The the other 20, 22 hours and a half I could do without, really. But it's the stage thing. Yes, it's hard, but it's the the audience, it's about a community experience. It's uh it's vital, it always has been, isn't it? Really?

SPEAKER_03 37:30

Yes, yes. And I think, you know, there's a a common misconception about the rock and roll lifestyle that it's all very, very exciting and and what I don't think gets talked about enough, and and probably for good reason because I don't think anyone really wants to hear it, but it's that that 22 hours of tedium, uh, you know, where you're waiting to take the stage, where you're you know, going to the soundcheck and then waiting between the sound check to to play your songs or whatever, you know. It's just it's so boring and like awful, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

I've got gigs coming up starting in April in America going through May. And oh, you just made me re remember the worst part of it. But I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_03 38:08

No, no, please come, please come. I want to come see you play.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

I never forget it. Really bad. Um, yeah, uh but I was gonna say everything could be a lot worse. Could be you know, it's better than a kick in the head. So totally so don't don't complain. I I'd like to describe it to people that no, I'm you know, I don't want to mix with the crowd before the show. Some some of the smaller venues think you know, I want to put me in a closet if you haven't got a dressing room, because it's extremely tiring. Yes, doing you know, endless. Um I mean, I'm lucky, I appreciate it, and I understand it, and I'm flattered. But to to before a show, I don't want to be doing selfies. I don't want to be talking about how I met Brinsley Schwartz. I know I don't want to dislike that sort of boom. Um but you get it, it's all about going on stage and giving the ticket buyer is the most important person, always has been, really.

SPEAKER_03 39:03

Yeah. For more from Southwest Review, visit the website for weekly content, and while you're there, don't forget to subscribe to the print magazine. Six dollars per issue, twenty-four dollars gets you a whole year. You didn't just fall off a hay truck, you know that's a bargain. You can also follow Southwest Review on Instagram X. Okay, let's let's change the subject for a minute, although we can get back to touring because I do want to talk about that life a little bit, um, and especially about your upcoming tour. But um I have to ask you because this is something that you and I share in common, um, which is a um an affinity for little George and Little Feed. And I feel like, you know, when when you find somebody who's a little feed fan, and we're there's a ton of us out there, but it's like you belong to this kind of special club because I'm not sure everyone always really got them and talk about unfashionable, uh, you know. I I think um they were they to me were cool as hell, but uh I I don't I I have this poster hanging in the other room. I'm looking at it right now, and I they could not look more hideous. I mean, what a what an an unfashionable band and yet so, so good, um, in my opinion. And so I was wondering, like, I've I've I've been touched by learning about your devotion um to Little Feet and what impact Lil George and Little Feet had on your own writing and on your work with the rumor.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

Well, I was just uh just about to get my record deal. It was it was getting close. I'd been going to London and meeting these people like Noel Brown and uh and uh Paul Riley, the bass player, who um introduced me to Robinson, the Dave Robinson, who, you know, and Dave instantly wanted to record me. So it was around that time when I'd gone, I was down a friend's place, wherever it was, in Basingstoke, which is in the county of Surrey or Sussex, not far from where I lived. I'd driven down there, just hanging out with this guy who was very into music a great deal. He turned me on to a few things I didn't know about, and um, you know, that was usually my job with people to turn turn them on to stuff that they hadn't heard. But he was playing this record and we're talking, and you know, whatever. And I said, What is this? Is this the new Stones Out? Is this the Stones Out? Is this the stone? And it was uh a song called Tripeface Boogie by a band called Little Feet. And I was like, What? What? What was that album I can't uh Sail? Um Sail and Shoes. Was it Sail and Shoes on that one? Whatever. Yeah, it was the album with that on. And then there's this rock and roll doctor and stuff like this is going on. I was blown away. I thought this it was I found it very stonesy. Yes. All of those, those, the, you know, the sort of um the flip of the rhythm on it's only rock and roll, but I like it, you know, that what the way that that, and then it skips, skips to where you don't expect it to go to start the next verse. And and the rock and roll doctor is clever. I mean, I couldn't play that to save my life, you know, the timing on that. I'm always copying from it uh um every now and again with songs that's you know, yeah, and Lowell George's voice, what a singer! Yes, and the whole band and all those musicians in that the backing singers, uh you know, Bonnie Raitt and stuff when it Linda Ronsat were doing backing vocals and some of those things. Um so there it was, but it was my career was just about to begin, and now I heard this other amazing thing, which was, you know, that'll get in there, that'll get in the head a bit, and might influence things along the way. Um, one after after album after another, but they were generally not known. This was, you know, they were they were kind of uh they they I don't think they sold like the uh I suppose the Almond Brothers were another that was a southern band. When I sometimes I play people Little Feet and they think it's too Southern or something, too swampy, something like that. But I'm like, uh, well, you know, maybe I think it transcends a lot of categories. Yeah, um, and I and uh Lol George Thanks I'll lead it here record. Love that one. And I went to see him. I actually said hi to him before the show. Yeah, he looked at me like I just yeah, it was me, it was me and Bob Andrews. We were in Chicago and we charged the back of the stage because we'd just played there a few days before, so they knew us at the venue and just charged while George was about to go on. You shouldn't do that to a person. But he shook our hands and was like we've we've we've you're you're it, man. You're fucking we were just blathering at LOL, and then we okay. Leave you to it, walked off. Amazing show, and then he he died about three weeks later. I think it was on that tour. Well, what an awful thing, but you know, they they they he did get a lot of great work done, I think, in his time. And um the the band were fantastic. Um yeah, that's it. They weren't spectacular. I'm glad you understand that their work as well. Because some people I don't just don't quite get it, I don't think.

SPEAKER_03 44:29

It it's like I said, it's like finding your people, you know, whenever you meet a little feed fan. Um it's like the coolest thing in the world. And as I say, they exist and and and you know, Lord knows they weren't, you know, relatively I mean, I but I do think compared to you know, say the Allman brothers, I don't know, you know, the legacy I think probably um has helped and all the reissues and everything, but wow, what what a what an incredible talent little George is and an incredible player. And and it's funny too, um, that uh that you mentioned the southernness of them because they weren't from the south at all, but it's something that I also associate with them. I mean, they're from LA and California's actually. But they they do have this quintessentially southern sound um that I I think you know just comes from all of Lowell's influences and everything. But um, yeah, it's it's always funny to think that in fact they were like the most LA band um that came out of there at that era.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

Yeah, well, John Fogarty, I don't think he'd ever been near the bio, had he?

SPEAKER_03 45:36

Another great example, yeah, exactly. They were from up north.

SPEAKER_00 45:38

Um I mean, I I sing in an American accent as well, and I've never been to America when I've made my first record because you know, blues, soul, it's all done in an American accent, and uh yeah, I I wasn't gonna start trying to sound like David Bowie with an arch English voice, it wasn't gonna work for me. So, yeah, you don't need to be from anywhere or any embedded in anything. It's it's all that's where it's embedded in your head and your heart. Yeah, uh, it does have a swampy funk feel.

SPEAKER_02 46:07

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:08

I think that's it, little fee. A lot of swampy funk stuff going on there in their playing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:13

Cool. Um, all right, so here's something that most people can't say. Um, you opened for Bob Dylan a couple of times.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

Well, we yeah, we got um Dylan was hip to me pretty quick. There's no doubt about it. And it was him who wanted me in the rumor to be part of the opening, one of the opening acts and Black Bush Festival, which was at the day at the day it was called the biggest gathering of people for a an music event in the history of the world. I don't know. It was 10 miles from where my parents um where I grew up. It was an aerodrome, as they called it, like small planes, like a massive piece of land. So me and the room opened for for Dylan, along with Eric Clapton and the band, and uh Joan Armour Trading was on the bill. And I met Dip Dylan then, and he you know he seemed to know about the song Don't Ask Me Questions, and he seemed to say he did he did have his eyes on things. And then in 1991, I opened for him again. I get my manager got the call saying from his people saying Bob wants would love Graham opening for him. And I was playing, doing a lot of solo then, so I went solo, which was perfect. He had a four-piece band, I was playing solo. We went to all over Europe and played about I played about five or six dates with him at the um the place I used to play with a rumor headlining the Hammersmith Odeon, which is now called something else. Um it was a sizable venue, but he could have done one massive arena, but he wanted to do this small theatre, you know, three two and a half, three thousand people. So I I did that with him, um, and I I played um all over Europe with him from you know Belfast and some places. We only did about uh 10 gigs, I think, somewhere around then. And then I had my entire tour book. This was struck by lightning record, okay, which I know I know Bob liked. He'd come out and sit behind behind the monitors every night to listen to certain songs I played on that. Very um, you know, yeah, he's he's that was nice. I thought that's pretty amazing, but I I again I just took it in stride. Well, I thought, well, of course Bob Dylan will know I'm pretty good. Of course he will. He knows a lot of people are pretty good, you know.

SPEAKER_01 48:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:22

Uh because he's I think he's a he's hip to that. Um, so there you go.

SPEAKER_03 48:26

I yeah, I get the sense that he is an avid listener, um, or at least was and and was aware of uh and I'm sure you know Mutt Lang told him that you were smarter. Um, that was um Nietzsche. Oh, Jack Nietzsche told him that you were smart. Even better. Yeah. Perfect. I'm sure he loved to hear that.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

Mutt langer thought it but didn't say it.

SPEAKER_03 48:54

Um so I mean that that's that's that's quite remarkable. Um so did you ever get a chance to like meet him and speak to him, or were you guys pretty siloed off and too? Well, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 49:05

No, it was basically he was going through this stage of wearing a Moroccan jalaba wherever he went. So he's sort of hidden with a hood.

SPEAKER_01 49:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 49:11

Um there were photos of him on the street walking around like this. It was one of his things that but we had friendly chats about nothing, really, which is the way I like it, you know, about the weather, or about Black Sabbath going to um uh they just went to South America to tour and got banned and didn't even play a gig. Let's uh talk about that at one point. Um, actually, that was with George Harrison backstage as well, and and Ronnie Wood. So it was we were you know, he I thought he was a shy guy, really. I think um um and I'm not particularly, but it's I can be, and I'm fine with that, you know. And he said, Hey Graham, is that good up there tonight? He thanks, Bob. Well, that's really nice of you. Well, yeah, I like yeah, I love what you're doing there. And he sent his um uh wardrobe lady down towards the end of the tour and said, Bob wants loves that song of yours called Wrapping Paper on your record. The song, the album was struck by lightning. There was a song I was doing every night called Wrapping Paper. Okay, she said, Bob loves that. You know, Bob no, she wasn't talking in his voice. Anyway, so she came down, said, Have you got a cassette? He likes cassettes on his tour bus. Okay. So that was really cool. The next uh uh a few albums later, he was using um Cindy Cashdoller on Lap Steel.

SPEAKER_02 50:29

Oh, she's great.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

She was on Struck by Lightning.

SPEAKER_02 50:32

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

And uh there's Bob using her. I thought, well, he might have picked that up from there. And of course I had Garth Hudson on there.

SPEAKER_02 50:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:38

I had John Sebastian on that record playing a harmonica on one of the songs and doing some low vocals. I was using characters that Bob would know from that era of the the the Woodstock area of New York, you know, the um the Catskill Mountains area. Uh so it all kind of makes sense in some ways, but um yeah, it's it's all it's a privilege, you know. This being one of my life has been a privilege, really, frankly, even before a record deal, because I grew up in the suburbs, not in some awful place in London or a steel town in up north where working class could have meant a whole different thing.

SPEAKER_01 51:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 51:18

In the county of Surrey, it means you're you know in a pretty comfortable place, even if you're working class, you know. And I didn't grow up on one of these estates, as they call them here, like like they have in America, like track housing sort of poverty. It's a nice little house in a tiny village. You know, so every everything's been a privilege.

SPEAKER_03 51:37

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

Really?

SPEAKER_03 51:39

You know, it's it's it's it's so you know wonderful to hear you you speak so positively about kind of every stage of your career. Um you're you've gotten to the point where you've written so many great songs, um so many memorable ones, so many legendary ones that um the artists have chosen to cover you. Um yeah, and I I mean, and there are some really, really wonderful uh covers. And uh I think my personal favorite is um Carleen Carter's version of Between You and Me. Oh yeah. Um, which I just think is fantastic. But I did wonder if if you had a favorite interpretation of one of your songs, and what does it feel like when you know you hear somebody else taking one of your songs for a spin?

SPEAKER_00 52:29

Um it's an honor. You know, when when when people, fans, you know, just come at the merch table. If I've got one of when I go outside and say hi after a show, they say, you know, somebody says, I I play in this holiday in lounge or a I pay in a wine bar and I play uh between you and me and heat treatment. I'm just as thrilled with that. Uh some some guy bothered to learn a song. Uh that guy from the gin blossoms when COVID happened, he he did um like a whole album of mine or something. It was on yeah, it was on YouTube. Um, the singer from there. I'm just I'm flattered by all of that. Rod Stewart, you know, he did Hotel Chamberlain. Oh, yeah. There was a guy named Jamie Waters who was from that Beverly Hills 901010, whatever it was called. Remember that show a long time ago? Huge show. He he was in that Jamie Waters, and he was a bit of a a songsmith, or or he liked he he he made music and he made an album and he put a song of mine on called Release Me, which came from Burning Questions album, somewhere in the 90s. It sold a million in Scandinavia, so nobody knew about it here, but it's like, oh thank you. Oh, money, thank you. Very nice. Thank you, Rod. I'd wake up every door, thank you, Rod. Um thank you to these people. There's some good there's some nice coverage. Rick Nelson did a song, not Rick Nelson, Rick Springfield for his for a movie of his. Oh, what's the band's name? The think of it. Anyway, a pretty hip band at the time. Um, they probably still are. I'll think of it. They used them for to back them up. There's been a lot of good things. I love Carleen's version. Um, and uh she said a lot of good things in the Jane in the book, the Howling Wind book that's just just out, you know. She said a lot of very nice things about me and the rumour guys, and it was uh very important, it seemed to her, that stage of her career, and you know, what seeing us play, seeing me and and uh doing that song, and you know, she met Nick Lo and uh you know they they fell for each other and all this stuff. Um, that was a nice version. Marty Um Jones, wasn't it, did a good version of Can't Take Love for Granted, which was on um was that The Real McCormick? I think it was the Real McCaw. One of my favorites, there was a record a guy in New Jersey put out, um, some part of New Jersey that um uh somebody's writing me a message here. Go away. It will. Yeah, it was it was um called Piss and Vinegar.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 55:21

And the smithereens were on there. The figs were on there. That's how I got hit to the figs, who I played with quite a lot. Um, they were doing Passion is no ordinary word. Um, smitherenes did something or other, and and most of the acts were unknown. There was a group, I guess it was girls, lady a lady singer or whatever, called 21 Brides or 27 Brides. They did Can't Be Too Strong from Howling Wind. I mean, from Squeezing Up Sparks, beg your pardon. And they did it like with this uh heavy metal guitars. Bom, there was like this deep echoey guitar thing going on there, and I thought it was great. Uh-huh. Um, I I I presume that is on one of the streaming platforms or something about record piss and vinegar. Um, I think my my website man, John at Grahamparker.net, might have released it there as well. I'm not that album. I can't remember. It's called Piss and Vinegar anyway. Songs of a tribute album to me. There was a guy, Sean, uh, what was his name? He did Black Honey. Oh man, it was a fantastic version. You might want to check that album out if you can find it. Piss and Vinegar is totally yeah, it's really got some interesting stuff on there.

SPEAKER_03 56:37

I I love hearing people's interpretations of other artists' songs and so and and a tribute album is the perfect way to compile it. Uh, it makes it very easy for me.

SPEAKER_00 56:47

Um it was great that most of the acts were obscure. Yeah, I mean, there's the smell ones and a few other people. There are others on there. I can't remember all the names now, but it was nice that it was. There were all quite a few of them, you know, New Jersey people who didn't even run record deals. But this 21 or 27 Brides version of Can't Be Too Strong, worth a worth a look. I haven't heard it for years. I'll maybe think it's horrible now, but at the time I thought, oh, I'm liking that.

SPEAKER_03 57:12

Well, that's I mean, that's an interesting. I mean, first of all, like my band, uh Paranoid Style, we covered Can't Be Too Strong for a live performance once.

SPEAKER_00 57:22

Oh, great.

SPEAKER_03 57:23

Um and uh oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 57:26

It's really uh, you know, it's a privilege again to me. It's I'm flattered always great.

SPEAKER_03 57:31

It's it's such you know, I wrote the review for Pitchfork of Squeezing Out Sparks. Um thank you. Um and and obviously it was my honor. Um probably, you know, top five of my favorite records. Maybe maybe my favorite record of yours, if if I can, you know, say that. Um but but you know, can't be too strong is is this is this song um that you know everybody always kind of thinks about when when they think about that record. Um it's a tough one, you know. You know, it's you're dealing with a very, very sensitive subject. You're dealing with a subject about abortion. In my opinion, you know, I feel like it's a very nuanced song. I feel like it's got a lot of different characters and different perspectives, and I felt that it was, you know, and and you know, I don't want to speak for you, but I felt that it was sort of unfairly interpreted uh by some critics. And um, you know, I've been I've been always you know trying to uh to really champion it. And I would love to hear a heavy metal version interpretation of it. But um, you know, if like what is it like to have a a song in your catalog that inspires such controversy? Were you surprised when it had that reaction?

SPEAKER_00 58:42

Um yeah, I didn't know really. You see, the thing with that, that was a squeezing out spark, so Jack Nietzsche produced produced it again. Um I wrote it as a country tune. It was literally they tear it out with talons of steel. You can always always almost hear yeehaw in there somewhere, you know, and give you a shot so that you wouldn't feel. Um yeah, I don't know what I was doing like that. There was these heavy lyrics, really, that I could, you know, I could tell it's a I don't know, do I want to go there? But I it was the tune. I think I thought the chords were that's a corny, corny. There's a tune, there's an old tune. It's the same chords. And we went down the back and we picked up a ladder and we did it. It's this terrible, terrible old song. I know it, I can't remember what the title was. And I use exactly the same chords, but I made it and I made it a country song. I didn't I didn't realize at the time, but afterwards I realized because even Bob Andrew said, I know what you're doing. I said, Yeah, I know. Now now I realize too late, and I've written this song with heavyweight lyrics. So I was trying to get the band to sort of play it that way. I didn't know what else to do. And Jack Nietzsche by then had tuned in. He tuned into the lyrics, yeah, and we'd crack the code of Discovering Japan, which is not an easy song to crack the code of to get a band to do it. It's it's a tricky one, it it's quite unusual uh composition, and so, and you know, don't get excited. All of these are they're they're they're quite challenging to play, they really are, yeah. Um to to get them right anyway, or even to learn them in the first place, because people get it wrong when you see chords charts. It's like I'm not doing that. So Jack Meeshe said, This is a heavy song, isn't it? Really? I said, Well, I don't know, I suppose it's sort of like he said, Well, are you serious about this? Why don't you you should take this a bit seriously? Slow it down, just pick out the notes. Interesting, try that. I did quickly, Bob Andrew said, Why don't you do this? You can't be too strong, dun, dun, that chord changed, dun, dun, because I didn't have that, I had it going straight through, and I said, Okay, and it was like it seemed like in five minutes' time, me, Bob, and Andrew, the bass player, were in the studio together playing it. Bob on an electric piano, uh-huh, Andrew on the bass, and me singing and playing. It was like one take.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:15

We I we didn't really practice it. I just sort of picked the chords out, and Bob added this thing. I was trying to remember what he said, and I did. Uh-huh. And there was there was only one one mistake in the whole thing, and that was on the word mistake. Andrew played a bass note wrong. So easy enough to fix a bass note. Boom, done. And and Jack and the other guys, Andrew, I mean Martin, guitarist Martin and and Brinsley were working out all these intricate guitar parts, and Jack said, No, no, no, no, it's done.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:48

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:48

And they were like, and I was like, yeah, that's done. I was like, holy, what have I done? Listen to this thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:56

It really knocked me on my ass a bit, you know. It's like, oh, okay. This record's gonna be, you know, a bit more than I thought I had on my plate. I did I just didn't quite get it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:10

Um, but it yeah, there was some guy. There was um a chart, somebody put a chart out, the 50 most favorite, 50 top 50, top 50 conservative songs. Yes, this came. I I read it on one of the early, I don't know what would have been on now. It probably came via my website. I don't know if Twitter existed then. I was thinking it was a bit before that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:36

And it was, and how uh you know the the top song they had, number one was won't get fooled again, which I thought, oh conservative, okay. I won't get fooled by those liberals, those decent people. No, okay, and then and um it can't be too strong because they took it literally. Yeah, they thought it was anti-abortion, yeah. It's not anti, it's not pro anything, as you know, from the complexity of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:00

That's a it's it's emotional and uh painful. Um it's not there's no judgment in there one way or the other. Yeah, and even at the merch table, one of some guys came up and said, So you're finished with that conservative thing, are you? I was like, um, yeah, I guess so. I'm finna whatever. Whatever, guys. What do you do? Explain yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:21

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:22

I'm a musician. Okay. Anyway, so that's interesting. Um but I you know, as I I know now, and I've known for years, once you put it out into the public eye, it's it's their business, really.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:37

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:37

It's the critics' business, it's the public's. Some people get uh more out of my songs than I I do because they've got them wrong, they misinterpreted them. Yeah, but it they fit it with their life. Yes, and I'm like, that's not the song what the song's about at all. But it you know, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:54

If they want to say to me, Graham, is that what you were getting at? Yeah, you know, local girls is one, you know, for something which is not a heavy song particularly, but they always think it's about um traveling somewhere and don't go with the local girls. And it's not, it's about going, don't go with the local girls in your area because they know you, they know you're a twerp, they don't respect you anyway. It's like being a kid, basically, a teenager, and yeah, oh they all know me, and um they just don't can't get anywhere with these, you know. So that's what I was going, I was feeding back on that. Don't bother with the local girls. Your local girls, not the exotic ones from somewhere else. They're easy, pal, you know. Just joking. Anyway, you know, that's that there's the misinterpretations of it. Um it's their business now. Once it's out there, it's their game.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:47

Yeah, I I think some of the best advice as I've as a critic and as somebody who also creates music is that it's not really the critic's job to read your mind. Um you know, you're gonna have people who are going to wildly misinterpret what your original intention was. And sometimes it is, you know, to your credit, and they make it seem a lot smarter than what you were going for.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:14

According to some critics from the old days, I am Shakespeare, forget about it. Yeah. What if I was a bit oh that's a bit purple prose here to describe me? This is good, but it's only pop music. Come on. It's only three and a half chords in a prayer. Wait a minute.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:30

That's that's when you're winning. Um, when when they're when they're calling you or smarter than Dylan. I'm still that one, I I think. Thank you, Jack Nietzsche. Thanks to Jack Nietzsche.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:38

Your memory. Uh but it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:42

So let's talk. If you don't if you have a couple more minutes, I just want to I know you've got a tour coming up. I'm excited because you're coming to my area. Um, yes. You're coming to the Ramshead uh. Oh, Ramshead, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:53

So I'm I played there quite a lot, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:55

Planning to be there. So I did want to ask you um, what's is it gonna just Be you solo and it's solo, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:02

It's solo. Um yeah, uh and uh yeah that's what that's what I'm doing. Um and uh there will be the last five or six years I've been doing a lot of howling wind songs, it just they just don't go away and they're fine. But now we've got the book out, and Jay, Jay Nackman, the author, is gonna get to some gigs and sell sell some there. Good for that. And hopefully he'll even get down to the Ramset. I don't know for sure what he can do. And um by then I will have a live album out.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:35

Oh, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:37

Which um it's it hasn't been announced, so I won't say too much, other than it's from two or three years ago. I did six dates in England with the Gold Tops, my backing band of the last couple of albums.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:47

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:48

And um I used uh uh had these girl singers on the ladybugs, as I dubbed them. So we did six talk, six gigs, and uh and one was recorded professionally by a guy who's recorded me a few times before. So big stir records will soon hopefully be making. I'm waiting for a test pressing to come out. Now I have to find a neighbor who's got a turntable. Hmm, that could be a job. It's like the old days. We listened to test pressings.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:17

Yes, yeah, sure, they still exist.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:19

Yeah, and and uh because it's vinyl, you know. So um what whether I know what I'm listening to apart from the songs, I don't know. But what I've heard anyway, it's it's sounding. I've you know, I'm I've I edited it quite fiercely because to get it to the size of a vinyl album. Yeah, because you know, CDs, when it's just a live album, it's it should be a specialist limited edition thing. Yeah, so that that that should, all being well, be out. My son designed the cover, and I think he, you know, he's handed it into Big Stir long ago. That's being manufactured, it's already manufactured, so that's rolling along. So there's that going on, and um, and then there's the the book. Um so it's so it's a little bit in celebration of Howling Wind, but I'm not gonna go out and do the whole album. I don't really like that stunt all that much.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:09

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:10

I've got too varied a career.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:12

You know, I might even record something that's written, uh play something that's written and hasn't been played. I might do that. I've done it before. I've I've got a few bits and pieces, um, but I'm not I'm not putting the hammer down. Uh the reason is because I'm being podcasted to death because of this damn book that's come out about howling wind. God damn it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:33

This guy, Jay, he really he's putting you out there, man. He's putting me out there, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:39

I'm supposed to be a songwriter. Um, but anyway, I'm you know, I'm not I'm not in any great rush really to make new albums. You know, it's it I and I but I will. It's it's it's it's kind of I've done a lot, you know, and I'm quite I'm pretty happy if I dropped dropped to if I was on a you know a hello take me, you know, look on the deathbed looking up and say, get me out of here. I'd I wouldn't be sort of oh, there was so much more to do. No, there wasn't. There really wasn't so much more to do. I'm okay, you know, I'm okay with it.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:13

Well, I it's uh it's good to hear that, but I am grateful that you are still here, that you're still writing songs, that there might be another Graham Parker record in the works, or even just a new song that you're gonna debut uh at a live performance.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:30

Maybe, maybe not. Don't hold me to it.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:32

I'm not no, no, no, no. No promises review.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:36

Um it's a mix, I'll do a varied show, and um the it's the the people who've seen me so many times, they come along for the ride, they're into it. Yeah, um, it's just so great the freedom of playing the solo thing. I mean, I sure I'd love to bring a band over, but we're priced out of this now. Uh-huh. You know, it we're just I mean, the American visa situation is and there's nobody who supports us here politically or anything to say, can you make this a bit fairer?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:05

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:05

You know, because we can't tour there because we have to pay incredible amounts of money, and you never know when it's gonna come, if it's gonna come in time, the visas for you know, so and all that stuff. It's it's we're priced out and and uh um I've I've always kept my working class thing, or at least I I'm more like that now than ever, which is I I I do this for a job. I'm a working class man, that's all I am. I'm just doing a job, and that's what I do when I tour. So at least you get paid a little something solo. You you know, yeah, you feel sort of better about it because that's what I do. I'm a working man.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:43

Um, and I love solo because you can stretch things out, you can cut out that chorus and boom, in go, and suddenly you get new things that might inspire a new song, some new melodic structure that I'm singing within a very old song or a medium period, so um, that can come back and work for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:01

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:02

And it's not the same with live with the band, it's you know, however loose you get on it, you're still sticking to the I mean it's not 12 bar blues, the band have to know where they're going next, generally, you know. Yeah, so it's it's a different thing. Freedom is solo. Um so I'm I'm I'm starting to get excited about this playing these gigs actually now, with the the book to to push along there, which I you know I think is a a privilege again to have a book written about my first album and all that came with it.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:32

And the origin story, as it were, uh, from band members. And every b every band member talked to Jay to did interviews for the for the for the book and got to look at them and correct them if there were things wrong. And since then we've lost two of two of the rumor guys. We've lost the the keyboard player Bob, who died, and uh not long after the book came out, I think, or maybe before. And Andrew, I was just up in Yorkshire, Andrew Bodner, the bass player, for a a celebration of life, you know, with a they had of in a beautiful hotel, and uh so many you know friends of his in came. Dave Robinson came up. He was on the train with me up to Yorkshire. And because Andrew's the Swedish guy, and I loved them both. Uh, so it's that kind of yeah, it's a not a pleasant period of time in that sense, but you know, life goes on and uh no one gets out of this alive, I think. Who said that? W W H W W C Fields, wasn't it? Wasn't it? It's like life, nobody gets out of this alive. Somebody said it anyway. But there you go, two dear friends who became big friends to mine and and brilliant genius musicians, both of those guys who are like the if I said to the other band members, you know, Bob Andrews and and and Andrew Bodner were the genius players in this band, they'd say, Yeah. They'd probably agree if I said to Brindley and Martin that. Yeah. Um there you go. So it's up that time, so celebrate it. I will probably do a few songs in their honor.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:05

Oh, great. That's lovely.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:07

And uh on onwards we go.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:09

Well, this has been my privilege. Um I think we've covered everything that you probably wanted to promote, but if I've left out anything, um you know feel free to plug.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:22

I'm fully promoted, baby.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:24

Wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:25

No, thank you. It's it's great to be here with you.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:28

Oh my gosh, it's been my my privilege, my honor. Uh, you know, you're one of my heroes. So um I just I appreciate it so much. And I I will thank Jay for connecting us because um, as I say, I was I I was so excited to do this, and uh and lo and behold, it was as wonderful as I expected. So thank you, thank you, thank you so very much.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:49

And uh okay, rock on little feet and rock on paranoid style as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:54

Yeah. There you go. All right, thanks again.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:58

Put our names in this in the same breath as little feet. There you go.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:02

Yeah, and then it manifests, as the children say, uh greatness.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:07

It will manifest in greatness. Okay, thank you, Elizabeth. See you, Graham. Known associates, known associates, right? Yeah, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:14

Thank you for promoting my record. That that's really where we have to. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:22

It's all circular, it's music.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:24

Cheers then. All right, see ya.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:26

Take care. Bye. Parallel stop. There it is. Bye-bye, everyone. Bye, Graham.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:38

Hell yeah! What about that? That's Graham Parker, folks, one of the very best to ever do it. I guess I didn't get to ask him what it was like touring with Thin Lizzie, but maybe that's best left to the imagination. And my imagination says that it was probably awesome to be in that crowd. If you're new to the music of Graham Parker, I'd suggest checking out Hellingland or Heat Treatment or Squeezing Out Sparks or the Mona Lisa's sister. All of them are masterpieces. Or if you want to hear how Jack Douglas handled his material, throw on another gray area. If you're not new to the music of Graham Parker, then it is a fine time to revisit all of his classic records, say Helen Wind or Heat Treatment, or Squeezing Out Sparks, or the Mona Lisa's sister, or another gray area, or whichever one is your favorite. And if you're in the U.S., check out his upcoming tour dates and go see the man when he comes to your town to help you party down. He is an incredible live performer. I'd also like to recommend checking out Jay Knackman's book, Howling Wind, which is a fine biography of Parker and features a cool Steve Keene illustration as the cover art. Anyway, big thanks to Graham Parker for taking the time and for sharing his amazing stories and wisdom. And thanks to you for listening to Known Associates, and thanks to New Pony for letting me do the show. Thanks to Clay Jones for mixing the episode, and thanks to Greg Brounderville, Bobby Ray, and Hannah Smith for producing it. Big thanks all around. Like Kubokin's own Francis Albert Sinatra says, I'll be seeing ya.