Morbid Mondays - Episode 25 - Discussion episode - The Night of Terror

What do Suffragettes, Woodrow Wilson and prison beating have in common? Today, Katy tells me, a harrowing tale from the women's right to vote movement. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

What's up?

SPEAKER_04 0:02

That was a fucking sound. Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Oh man.

SPEAKER_04 0:07

Alright. Greeting.

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Hello.

SPEAKER_04 0:10

Welcome to, or welcome back to Morbid Mondays, your unhinged source for what the fuck moments throughout all of history, where we will take turns giving you a weekly tour through all of the gross, gory, and downright the moments in history. We're your hosts. I'm Katie.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

I'm Brian.

SPEAKER_04 0:25

Alright, let's get the fuck into it, shall we?

SPEAKER_01 0:28

We're rested. Yes. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 0:31

I am no longer ill. This is my first day unmedicated.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Oh man. So what do we got?

SPEAKER_04 0:40

There's so much fucking caffeine in my system. That's what we got. Jesus Christ. I'm gonna vibrate onto the next plane of existence.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Save the spider tapestries. 99 cups of coffee. No one will understand that. Like two people here, like, oh yeah, I know what he's talking about.

SPEAKER_04 0:57

Alright, so when I say the words night of terror, beyond beyond a horror movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:06

What pops into your head?

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Uh Night of Terror. Night of Terror. Oh fuck. Uh no, that sounds familiar to me. It sounds Napoleonic for some reason.

SPEAKER_04 1:16

No.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Why does that sound so familiar?

SPEAKER_04 1:18

Because there's few, there's a few instances in history where this has kind of been like the dubbed the unofficial title. There's something uh recently, I think it's like 1990, where something like awful happened.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:29

Um because I I I kept stumbling into that while I was doing research for this. But this particular event takes place in 1917. 1-7, not 7-0.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Russia?

SPEAKER_04 1:41

Nope, US.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Oh shit, okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:44

So I I know where you went with Russia, though, because 1917 is a busy effing year.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:51

Like there's a lot of shit going down.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

World globally.

SPEAKER_04 1:53

Yes. Like World War I is in full swing. The US is about to join in because hey guys, FOMO. Um No, seriously, it's it it was our duty to like globally help out because sometimes you gotta slap down a world leader.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Yeah, that was a uh yeah, 20 20 world leaders jostling over shit that didn't really belong to them. And like all all kinds of all kinds of yeah, 1917 is busy.

SPEAKER_04 2:22

So, for example, I wrote down a whole list of like events leading into where we're where we're headed today. And this is like global stuff. This isn't just like in the US, but uh once again, Germany continues to act out, they're picking fights with everybody.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:40

World War I, big yikes.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

And and doing a pretty bang up job at it, actually.

SPEAKER_04 2:47

Yeah, that shit with the U-boats, bruh. Yeah, rude. Um, let's see. The Mex the modern Mexican constitution is put into effect. Now God, it wouldn't really see like effect effect until 1920, but still it was made official. Uh let's see, Puerto Rico joins the US. Hi guys, welcome. Just in time for the war.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Yeah. Sorry, also.

SPEAKER_04 3:09

Uh Russia Yoked its monarchy. Yes, yeah, in a very, very famous incident.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

A dramatic fashion. Indeed.

SPEAKER_04 3:18

Uh DreamWorks did a hell of a job with that movie. I still sing every single one of those songs. Anastasia, for anyone that that didn't catch that.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

Yeah, there was a small albino bat was involved. No.

SPEAKER_04 3:32

Bartok! His name is Bartok! Put some respect on his name.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

And Rasputin was not that cool. No, he was not. He was not a wizard. He was just a con artist.

SPEAKER_04 3:44

Con artist with a big dick. Anyway, uh, let's see. Oh, uh, Jeanette Rankin. It becomes the first US female to join Congress.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

That's right. We've talked about this in in previous episodes.

SPEAKER_04 3:58

Before women even had the right to vote throughout the entire US. At this point, like only like nine states have been like, yeah, alright. You're a chick, but you can vote. Um the rest of the US is like, fuck that.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Right. A woman? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:12

How dare! Uh, let's see. Uh oh yes. In April, the US joins World War One. Um, the good Kennedy is born this year.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Oh, the well, which one? Like JFK? Yeah. Yeah, okay. JF was like JFK and Bobby weren't that bad.

SPEAKER_04 4:29

Yeah, JFK.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:30

Uh let's see. Oh my god. So did you know that he was actually also the first president that was born in the 20th century and then would go on to serve his presidency in the 20th century? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Also the first Catholic Catholic.

SPEAKER_04 4:44

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. There was a there was a big to-do about that, too.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

They're like, he's gonna be a a papist. Who fucking cares? Yeah, and it's like that's the thing.

SPEAKER_04 4:53

He's the coolest dude. Oh, you shot him. You bastards. That sucks. Now I'm sad. Um, all right, so China also decides to join World War I at this point.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 5:03

Um, and then women's suffrage movements begin to picket the White House to fight for the right to vote.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

They're pretty awesome, especially the ladies over in England doing jujitsu on folks. I love early suffragettes, they're insane.

SPEAKER_04 5:24

Uh let's see, Lennon leads his almost entirely bloodless coup and wins.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Almost entirely.

SPEAKER_04 5:34

Welcome the USSR.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Yeah, I was saying there's some shit that goes down in the city of Moscow.

SPEAKER_04 5:40

That is why I said almost.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Quite bloody. But they're all they're all on the front. Yeah. Yeah, and then like a bunch of trained guys just roll in real fast.

SPEAKER_04 5:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

With a very young uh Khrushchev and Joseph Stalin and all those other guys.

SPEAKER_04 5:54

You know your history. God, I hope so. This is a history podcast.

unknown 5:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:00

Uh let's see. November 15th, France gets a brand shiny new prime minister.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Ooh. Yeah. Who's that? Do you know?

SPEAKER_04 6:09

I forgot to write his name down. But we're gonna hang right here in November 15th. Because that is when 33 women that were picketing the lawn of the White House were all rounded up and arrested. Welcome to the Night of Terror.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Yes, let's let's let's go into that because I have no fucking idea where we're going from here.

SPEAKER_04 6:29

So to do so to get there, I need to tell you how we got here, right? Like, I know I know for a fact that you are familiar with women's suffrage. And uh I had to educate my partner on some of it today.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

Well, it's like almost hidden history. Like, out of the books, right? Like it when you when you do world history or US history in high school, they briefly touch on it.

SPEAKER_04 6:51

Oh yeah, and they they they clean it up a lot.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

Yeah, they don't they don't talk about like all the all the women getting billy clubbed and the women with hat pins, stab and cop.

SPEAKER_04 7:01

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Our votes for women, ladies, are why there are rules about hat pins, in case you didn't know. Uh, so let's let's backtrack just a smidge on how we got here. The official movement for for women's rights got got its start in 1848, which I seems really fucking late to me, because like I know for a fact that there have been women throughout history like making a stink about why the fuck am I not equal to you? I'm clearly fucking smarter than you, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

We get we get here in America though, we we also suffer the and really in the entirety of Europe uh for the most part. There's an there's a kind of austerity movement that comes along with Puritanism and everything else when it first starts.

SPEAKER_04 7:44

It's this weird conservative like wave and undertow that sucks you under, and then all of a sudden people wake up like 15 years later and go, This is stupid.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Yeah. And it all goes right back. And then it it it goes in like shifts. Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_04 7:58

It's like this big like pendulum of history where it's kind of like what tried to happen here, and then all of the rest of us said, uh and I'm I'm I'm I'm stoked about that. I really am. Like the the the sheer amount of pushback on the weird conservative movement, especially on social media, has been remarkably refreshing, especially for someone that is as familiar with history as as as you and I are.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

It's the only thing that gives me hope when I see people like the the odd formation of modern conservatism. Yes. Where it's like certain things that your grandparents would have hated, they're now okay with. And it's like that's a sign that things are middling out.

SPEAKER_04 8:35

Yeah. It's it's it's tempering itself, I think.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

Hopefully.

SPEAKER_04 8:39

So, in and around this area of 1848, we have such fabulous names as Elizabeth Cady Ston. Great maiden name there, ma'am. Just saying. You spelled it wrong, but it's good. Susan B. Anthony, because who doesn't know her?

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Right. Yeah, she's kind of the poster child of the suffragette movement.

SPEAKER_04 8:57

Yes, Queen. And many, many, many, many, many more. And there were names on this list as I researched. Like I was, I was telling your wife, um, I say as if she's not my sister. I was telling her uh earlier while we were talking, because you were asleep, that I was uh polishing up my notes for this. And I was going down the list and I was gonna I was gonna try to shout out some more of the like fabulous names, and there were so many that I didn't know that I had never heard of. Like, for example, Sojourn Truth. I had no idea.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Oh shit, Soiner. Yes, The Joiner Truth.

SPEAKER_04 9:31

Thank you. I I had no idea who she is. Her st I read her entire story today.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:37

She she wrote, she was one of the first, like whoa, black authors, like a very real and she was in fact the first black woman to win a lawsuit against a white man.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:51

Period.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Yeah, yes, ma'am. Was was a major movement in making sure that the suffragette movement was a little more inclusive of other people because it was not always so and about that actually, that's an excellent segue.

SPEAKER_04 10:05

Thank you very much. The women's rights movement got its got its real like teeth in things right alongside the abolitionists. Like the the abolition uh abolitionists and the women's rights movement all traveled in the same I I guess in in modern terminology you would say the the radical far left.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

They were also uh prohibitionists. A lot of them thought like alcohol was really which at the time it was. Like to be fair to them, saloon culture was rough.

SPEAKER_04 10:35

Like true, very true. And considering that this was an age where like they didn't have the modern convenience that we do. Like when I decide I want to read a book, I can borrow any fucking book I want from Kendall Unlimited. They had to go to a library.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Yeah, and if you want to have a single beer, you can grab it out of your fridge.

SPEAKER_04 10:55

Yeah, but you don't have to go to a bar and get a pint. Yeah. You can get a what's what's the ounce on the cans? Twelve?

SPEAKER_01 11:03

Twelve, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:04

You can get a 12-ounce can from your fridge.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

And you don't you don't have to go into a place where possibly you could get shot or into a massive fight or whatever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:14

It is insane.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

That's who I was thinking about Hatchet Sally in the as far as suffragettes, because that's how she started out was being like a liquor buster. She was a massive teetotaler. And they would come into these saloons, all these women would come in with like bats and wood fire hatchets and just start smashing shit. And I was like, God damn, that's so fucking metal.

SPEAKER_04 11:38

Damn, y'all, y'all are hardcore. I would not have survived in the early 19 teens.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

I'm too soft. And I think that's really that's the like the the late 1800s part. And and uh, but it was because like hu husbands would would do that. Like abusive husbands would be like, oh, it's the drink.

SPEAKER_04 11:56

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:57

And they'd be like, okay, then let's take that away. That was their whole logic, right? So Hopa messed her up.

SPEAKER_04 12:04

Oh no, no, no, no. Sorry. I I was I was reading my notes and I like started to wax poetic here for just a second, and I'm like, bitch, what's wrong with you? Uh anyway, so most of us in here in the US, you and I touched on this in just a moment ago, actually, have a pretty like clean cut, cookie-cutter kind of view of women's suffrage. Like, we know it's a thing that happened, we know that there were pretty purple sashes and women marching in lines, and Mary Poppins gave us a whole votes for women, you know, musical number along with step in time, and that's about it. Um yeah, I went there. What about it?

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Oh my god. Have you watched that as an adult?

SPEAKER_04 12:43

I have not, and I want to.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Man, poor Irish people are not depicted well.

SPEAKER_04 12:50

Nobody is depicted well in that movie. Have you heard Dick Van Dyke's accent? I love Dick Van Dyke, okay? I love him. His accent in that entire movie is absolutely absurd. And not to mention who they put him opposite from.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:07

An actual Brit who is one of the single most elegant people on the face of the planet.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Yeah, she's pretty uh, I do remember even as a kid being like, She's out of your league, bro.

SPEAKER_04 13:17

Stop.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

She's so yeah, she comes in and she's Christ.

SPEAKER_04 13:20

Practically perfect in every way. Can you tell that Mary Poppins was a big part of my childhood? Can you tell? Because that was my entire that was that was my introduction to women's suffrage. Like that was that was all I knew about it was that like every all like all of all of the classy ladies were like votes for women, motherfucker.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:39

But in the most posh way possible.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

And in in real life, they were swinging baseball bats. The Enola Holmes version is much closer to actual history.

SPEAKER_04 13:48

I haven't watched that and I want to.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

They are uh, yeah, there was there was explosives involved.

SPEAKER_04 13:54

I believe it. I believe it. Okay, so anyway, that was my that was my Mary Poppins wax poetic section right here in the middle. So in in 1869, the movement split, right? And and you'll notice that this happens in political movements a lot. Like they'll they you will you will have you'll have the people that are like, okay, we can get this done the polite way, and then you'll have other people that are like, no, we're throwing bricks. Get this. The the movement split for the first time because it happens twice over the 15th Amendment, which do you do you know the 15th Amendment?

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Remember it off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_04 14:31

I wrote it down.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

I feel bad that I don't, but I've literally gave black men the right to vote. Oh, yes, of course. Yeah. So there's a book on this shelf that is called The Fifteenth.

SPEAKER_04 14:41

Well, I mean You're allowed, bro. You had like you had like five hours of sleep.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

I woke up 30 minutes ago.

SPEAKER_04 14:47

Yeah, you're you're good. You are forgiven. But the movement split because basically there were there were about half of them that were like, yeah, okay, that's great. Good for y'all. And there was the other half that was pissed.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

Of course.

SPEAKER_04 15:00

Because hello?

SPEAKER_02 15:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:02

Hello?

SPEAKER_02 15:04

Right.

SPEAKER_04 15:05

In this extremely racist era, you're gonna give black men. Oh, I hate I hate that I'm saying it like this. Yeah. Because take it out of context, this could like destroy me.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

But but it yeah, I the outrage that they felt that like they had been passed over in favor of the order of the order of power goes patriarchy first, regardless of any other social thing, of just like your because you gotta understand, like like for the people listening on to this podcast, right? The people at home in this time period are so profoundly racist that it's so bad. That it sends a very clear message about what they think about women in general when they are willing to set aside the literal systemic racism to pass over women. Still don't get the right to vote.

SPEAKER_04 15:59

So, okay, I I told you that I had that I had to like correct my partner today, right? Yeah, because like I'm in the kitchen making my coffee, I'm not quite awake yet, so like none of my filters are in place.

SPEAKER_03 16:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:11

And he he knew what I was what I was working on, like I was polishing things up, he knew my subject, and he's like, So let me and I and I know he was trying to get a rise out of me, and he fucking did.

SPEAKER_02 16:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:22

Because it was 7:30 in the morning and my temper snapped. And he goes, So I I don't understand, are you for women's suffrage or against it? And when I tell you the force and the speed with which I put down the coffee creamer, frightened this man out of the kitchen.

unknown 16:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

It's it's like it's one of those things that happens in politics where because you have parties that are vying for power against one another, you end up making these concessions. And that what they wanted was, and now everybody gets to vote. Like in one of a very there's a very famous thing, I think Vice Joiner Truth. I may be remembering this very incorrectly, and I'm sorry if I get this wrong, but there was a uh uh essay or or a book called Ain't I a Woman?

SPEAKER_04 17:12

Yes, you are correct. I read about that today.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

About like, hey, why am I not being represented in this push to vote?

SPEAKER_04 17:19

Here's the thing that pissed me off about that that he didn't know about. Like, he he he didn't know that this was like a hot topic button for me because at the time, given given the time period of the of the late 1800s, early 1900s, women weren't really allowed or weren't commonly allowed to have higher education. I told you you were right.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:40

Um, he just looked it up.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

I just had to make sure I wasn't wrong on that.

SPEAKER_04 17:44

And there were there were groups. I I I I hesitate to to call them anything like my brain keeps going lobbyists, and I'm like, no, no, that's not the right word. But there were there were groups of people that would take surveys in the street, like asking women specifically, are you for women's suffrage or against it?

SPEAKER_02 18:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:02

And because the women, the women didn't have the education to understand the definition of the word, and because it was a relatively new word at the time, they broke it apart for context clues. Women's suffrage. What does suffrage sound like? Right. Suffering.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

Are you for women's suffering?

SPEAKER_04 18:20

Yeah, like that's what And they would take they would take surveys, polls, asking women who very pro very probably did not understand the question. Are you for or against it? And then they would put they would they would publish these reports, surveys, polls, saying that women or women are against women's suffrage. Or you know, are for women's suffrage or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Or against it, yeah. But so and and also with the fact that like no fault divorce does not exist. Yes. So like there's always the overarching thing of like if your husband finds out, will he hit you about it?

SPEAKER_04 18:55

Yeah, like it's unfortunate, like it's an awful period for especially if you are, you know, a woman. But anyway, he had no idea about that. Like, I I I I didn't know that that wasn't common knowledge. So, like when I exploded at him about it, he was like, Whoa!

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Yeah, it's the the ladies literally standing on apple crates on the street corner, yeah, doing uh what's now called a gallop poll. Amazing. And you're right, like education for women really only existed in the highest possible class, and also um employment in those fields was extremely rare.

SPEAKER_04 19:30

Yeah, and to be perfectly honest, it wasn't common either to find an academically inclined woman because they weren't uh really encouraged to go for it.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Right. To to such a degree that things that are now thought of as fairly feminine fields for whatever reason. Uh, but but like uh, because gender stuff and teachers yeah, it's usually pretty dumb. Yeah, teachers, writers. It was really difficult for a woman to to become a writer of any form for like a newspaper if it wasn't about like fashion or homemaking.

SPEAKER_04 20:03

Oh yeah, I was gonna say, or recipes.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

Yeah, yeah, it was very limited opportunity.

SPEAKER_04 20:08

Oh, it's infuriating because these are things that we take for granted now.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Yeah, the the pearl-less bucks of the world having to use like pseudonyms.

SPEAKER_04 20:15

My phone just made an angry sound at me.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

It was mad too.

SPEAKER_04 20:19

Yeah. Uh so okay, that was the first time that the women's suffrage movement split. The second time that the women's suffrage movement split was kind of like smack in between three years, like it was a very slow break from 1914 to 1916 when Alice Paul and Lucy Burns formed the more aggressive Congressional Union for Women's Suffrage, or as we would recognize it, National Women's Party in 1916.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

Awesome.

SPEAKER_04 20:49

So they are they are basically one of the papers that I was reading today, uh, categorized it as a militant party, and I was like, no.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

To their definition of like, and these women will throw hands.

SPEAKER_04 21:02

Yeah, like beware the hat pins.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

That's that is a dangerous thing in like US historical politics, is like whenever somebody doesn't agree with you and they are a minority, they be they get labeled as militant.

SPEAKER_04 21:16

Militant, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:18

We're seeing it in in modern media now.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

That's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:22

Yay! Millennials living through another disaster. Sorry. I got sent that today, and it just kind of lives rent-free in my head. Along with Hit 'em up today. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

No idea what that is.

SPEAKER_04 21:34

It is it is a song, and I will play it for you later. I guarantee that you've heard it, but it's been playing on repeat. Okay. Over and over in my head. It's basically like Revenge Golddigger song.

unknown 21:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 21:45

Um, early aughts, it was great. Give it a listen. Anyway, so yeah, the that that particular split is kind of our starting point for our Knight of Terror.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

I keep imagining your like Night of Terror, and uh, like I'm getting This anime scene of like vampires shoving into a city. And I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 22:04

Honestly, oh, I didn't do trigger warnings at all. I just dove straight in. Okay, so before we get into the nitty-gritty of this, if you've made it this far, I apologize for not warning you ahead of time. But our trigger warnings today include police violence, violence against women, general violence altogether, and a little bit of body and food horror. Okay, I'll give you, yeah, I know. I'll I'll give you a second to like consider your options here. Like, take your time. Because it's I'm not gonna go into detail about it, but uh the mention of it, some people can be real like sensitive towards. And I get that, I understand. All right, cool. So if you're still here, here we go. In 1917, the the wit the National Women's Party decided, you know what? We've had the fuck enough. We are gonna annoy these motherfuckers until they give us the time of day. I have the time and I am the one, basically. And they set up a round-the-clock picket at the White House.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_04 23:12

Like, these women were coming in in shifts, so there was always a line of women at the White House. Like, to the point where President Woodrow Wilson was like, Hi, good to see you again. Do you want to come in for some coffee?

SPEAKER_01 23:26

That's pretty wild.

SPEAKER_04 23:27

And they, of course, were like, no, we have a job to do, but thank you.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Woodrow Wilson, the most polite, utterly racist individual. Like it at this time, you know what movie he's playing in the White House? It's one of the first film ever played in the White House.

SPEAKER_04 23:45

What?

SPEAKER_01 23:45

This is factually correct.

SPEAKER_04 23:47

That's true.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Um called Birth of a Nation. It's about the Ku Klux, the Ku Klux Klan.

SPEAKER_04 23:53

Serious? Oh my God.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

Now there is some debate on whether or not that was the first film because, like, you know, stuff for the military is film, right? Like, and so like troop movements and stuff like that. You you people used to make these little like news type reels, silent Nickelodeon films that they would show. So there's some, as I understand it, some debate over whether that's the first film, but it was definitely played by him.

SPEAKER_04 24:20

That's crazy. I was I okay, so I know I know next to nothing about Woodrow Wilson beyond that he was known to be super polite.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:31

He was he was relatively chill, like with the exception of that he had to join World War One and like, you know, do the draft and all of that. Um I I knew that he was like, Yeah, yeah, the 19th Amendment didn't sound so bad. Why don't we give him? Yeah. And he tried. He tried, actually. He was like, yeah, okay, you can have the right to vote. And then the Senate was like, ha ha, no. Yeah, he he's a perplexing individual. Yeah, he's I didn't know about this this rampant racism, which I guess I should have suspected considering the time period. He definitely he looks like a professor.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

I don't want to derail this anymore about Woodrow Wilson, but he was a bit of a shit sometimes, but a complicated guy.

SPEAKER_04 25:10

Yeah, well, as as most human beings are, but I I'll I'll I'll give him I'll give him what little credit is due where it is due. All right, so the the US entered World War I, and people like the general attitude in the US was, yeah, we'll go in and we'll set this shit straight. We're kind of an arrogant nation, guys.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:31

And by kind of, I mean we are.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Yeah. Um and and in this particular instance, though, we weren't wrong. We were right. We came in, everybody was fighting these neat like trench rows and all that stuff. The reason why America did so well is that we came in late. We came in with like a hundred thousand guys, and we were fresh, and then we just went go that way. And we took a hundred thousand people and just pushed one way.

SPEAKER_04 25:56

And we came in ready to fuck shit up.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Yeah, we were yeah, we were up, we were fresh, we had new technology, and we really had been there the whole time fighting uh for France. A lot of a lot of airmen.

SPEAKER_04 26:06

We we had been helping out with France. That is, that is, that's true. Uh so basically the the general attitude in the US right now is yeah, the government, woo! Um I feel unclean.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

No, that yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:22

But that's that's that's the vibe generally right now. And they're the the deeper in that we get like as the months pass, the more the public is kind of like mmm, at the open protest and the the open criticism of the US that the that our suffragettes were doing. While this is a topic worth standing on business for. Too much time on TikTok.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Ten toes down.

SPEAKER_04 26:52

Ten fucking toes down. It is worth it. But public opinion kind of turns against them because they are they are openly criticizing the government, they're openly criticizing the president. Like they're using his his kind of like draft and military slogans back at him for suffrage.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

World War I is not like World War II. He's not a clear bad guy. It's just kind of like there is a lot of anti-German sentiment.

SPEAKER_04 27:18

Well, you know that uh France put a dancer to death because they thought she was a uh a German spy.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

That's wild.

SPEAKER_04 27:25

Right?

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Like also why uh Karl Marx was where Pilates was invented. Actually, in a in a German concentration camp in England.

SPEAKER_04 27:34

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

Yeah, people really did not trust Germans. They called them the Hun.

SPEAKER_04 27:39

Well, I mean we did the same thing to the Japanese. So we ain't got any room to talk.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Nope.

SPEAKER_04 27:46

And we got a lot of apologies to still make.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

Yep. Um it was not always super popular, however, in in a couple of years, maybe right around now, actually, the returning veterans. Um, one of the things that's gonna really become a big damper in US politics is that the returning veterans from World War I are not given their war bonus.

SPEAKER_04 28:08

Oh, don't do that.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

This is as the Great Depression's coming in.

SPEAKER_04 28:13

Um, and because doesn't World War I end in 1920? It was like it was six years, and I think it got started in 1918, I think.

unknown 28:24

Hang on.

SPEAKER_04 28:24

I wrote it down.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

1918. November 11th, 1918.

SPEAKER_04 28:29

Okay, so we have one more year of war. Yeah, like almost to the day. Because the day that we're on right now is November 13th, 1917. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. Like to look to look back on events right now, like these things that happened over a hundred years ago, just just wait a year. Just wait a year, take a year off.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

But it's it's so in the moment.

SPEAKER_04 28:52

Yeah. Which I get, I understand. Like, once again, you know, you're you're standing on business, ten tones down, yeah. Ten tones down, apparently, ten toes down, and you you mean what you're saying with your whole chest all the you just ran through lingo. I fucking did.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

But yeah, it's like they are starting to be associated, is is if I remember this correctly, and please correct me if I'm if I'm not I know that later on the suffragettes are gonna be involved with union labor. Yes, and so they are starting to be seen as a leftist group. Yes, oh, they were always seen as a leftist group. Socialist kind of group.

SPEAKER_04 29:32

Because once again, they were also they were kind of lumped in and grouped in with the abolitionists. And I don't know if you remember or not, you you weren't there, but you've studied, you the abolitionists weren't popular, they still won.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Yeah. But yeah, it blood, sweat, and tears. Yeah. I mean, like it yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:49

It was an ordeal. So in November 13th, 1917, 33 women are picketing the White House when they are quite suddenly arrested, charged with obstruction of traffic, and hauled the fuck off to jail.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Obstruction of traffic is great. And I imagine a couple of them, the real feisty ones, for hysteria.

SPEAKER_04 30:13

Oh well, I didn't read that, but probably. Uh, so now as we know, these are bullshit charges, and they literally should have been held for 24 hours and and released. Like, no, this is this is a bullshit charge.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Yeah, we're we're gonna we're busting up a riot. Get out of here.

SPEAKER_04 30:32

And it's not even a riot, it's literally a peaceful protest. Like they're just hanging out. They're they're they're standing or sitting there, like having tea. They're chilling. They're literally just chilling with their little signs. Well, okay, they were big signs, they were banners. I've seen pictures.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

But like and in dresses with big hats.

SPEAKER_04 30:51

Yes, they look, they look so terribly like post-Victorian. Everyone, everyone Like do you remember you remember Rosie from Hasbin Hotel?

SPEAKER_01 31:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 31:01

They look like her.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

Every picture I've ever seen of these women looks like young Eleanor Roosevelt. Yes. Every single one. Yes. Like the same dress style.

SPEAKER_04 31:09

They're in ankle-length skirts that are like kind of trumpeted. Like they like the the vibe is pencil skirt, but give it ruffles.

SPEAKER_03 31:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:18

And these high-neck shirts that are like they they look like they're half lace work. Like every single one of these women look like ladies. Yeah. This is this is we're having tea on our shift at the White House.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

This is the time period where sometimes people would get upset with you because you went out of that your front door without like a fucking hat on.

SPEAKER_04 31:38

Gloves.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:39

Gloves. Gloves were a big fucking deal. All right. So these women, these 33 women are arrested and hauled off. I okay, I found conflicting accounts on whether it was a workhouse, a prison, or a jail.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

So those three things are often the same thing.

SPEAKER_04 31:57

That's what I thought. That's that's where I arrived with context clues. But considering that I like, I looked it up and got no definitive answer. Well, here's the thing they were arrested in Washington, DC. And then they were hauled off to Ocaquan.

SPEAKER_01 32:16

Beautiful name.

SPEAKER_04 32:17

Right? Ocaquan workhouse in Virginia. Now, you and I are both going.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

No, that's hang on. That makes sense to me because of how close it is. And because it's a district, not a state.

SPEAKER_04 32:29

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

So it's either you go to a federal facility or you go somewhere else.

SPEAKER_04 32:35

And uh several of their sisters were already there for disturbing the peace. As our quote-unquote militant group for this women's suffrage movement were wont to do. And they had kind of been advised, sort of claimed to be political prisoners, because they weren't criminals. They didn't done anything wrong.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

Right.

SPEAKER_04 32:58

And so when they get there, they're like, we want to be treated like political prisoners. We want representation. All of the reports coming from this are coming from the women themselves. So it is entirely possible that they are biased. I I in fact, I I would I would discredit them if they claim to not be biased. But according to the reports, smuggled out on scraps of paper, they were being reasonable with the superintendent of said prison, who apparently lost his shit at their quote-unquote demands. At which point he essentially said sick em to his 40-plus male guards, and all 33 of these women are essentially manhandled out of this processing room. Like they weren't even processed proper properly.

SPEAKER_02 33:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:54

Let's let's let's start there. A lawyer today would have a fucking field day with this. But alas, it's 1917. And uh from being bodily drug from this processing room, in which one of the one of the the surviving eyewitnesses, like a person that was there, claimed that she told the guards that the two guards that grabbed her by the arms and said, Don't drag me, I'll go with you. I have a lame foot. And they proceeded to bodily drag her anyway. Now, this is the part where it gets nasty, and I'm gonna try to gloss over as much of it as I can with like sort of vague informative details, but I'm not gonna go into shit.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:39

These women are brutalized. They are they are beaten, they are kicked, they are strangled. Uh several women are thrown into things to like actively harm and torture them. Like they're they're they're taken to like this. I I the words that were used were condemned section, which I'm I'm guessing is probably a very artistic way of saying dark and dirty and kind of gross.

SPEAKER_02 35:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:10

And they are thrown in these dark cells, and two of these women are one is picked up and dropped on a metal bench, on the arm of a metal bench, twice. Not once, but twice. And according to the person that that basically was was taking these these accounts down, this this woman, I believe her name was Dorothy Day, was described as a frail woman. And I've seen a picture of her. She's she's a very delicate-looking flower. And it kind of just gets worse from there. Like one woman is thrown into the cell, and when she's thrown, her head strikes the ironwork bed frame, and her head hits it, she's bleeding, and she just slumps, completely immobile on the floor. Like she is knocked the fuck out to the point where one of the other women in the cell has witnessed this and literally has a heart attack because she thinks she's dead. And the stories just get worse from there. But that's I'm gonna I'm gonna close the brutality there.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

I can I can imagine because it's gnarly. Yeah, also you started this out with like how many women get arrested or in the 33. So we can say that the workhouse probably has maybe 200 people in it. Um 40 male guards. There we no longer allow male guards in female prisons entirely, yeah. For for very, I think what should be obvious reasons. Yeah. And uh because we guys are the problem.

SPEAKER_04 36:41

It's n it's not all men, but it's always men.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

Yeah, it's it's well, it's power. It it's that's really what it is, is like you boil it down to it, it's power. This is why a lot of shit had to change and still needs to change in prisons to begin with. They don't have any rights. Yeah. The uh the the Alcatraz years later would have somebody come in front of a board of people and tell about his experience in there and how horrifying it was. And then like they had to be like, Oh, what were you initially in jail for? He was like stealing bread. Yeah, and then they kept giving him new charges because he would try to escape because they were like, you know, beating the shit out of him with metal bars all the time. And uh that's yeah, it's terrible.

SPEAKER_04 37:27

Yeah, it's gnarly. Later that night, once they had all been thrown in their cells and the guards got bored and left, the leader of this particular pack of ladies reveals herself because she wants to know her people are okay. So she calls out a roll call.

SPEAKER_02 37:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:42

Like, let me know you're alive. Did we lose anyone? And she's checking in on all of her people, and the guards are like, shut the fuck up. And she's like, No, I need to know my people are alive.

SPEAKER_02 37:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:54

And they proceed to chain her hands above her head to the cell, like the ironwork cell wall. They chain her hands above her head and leave her there all night like that. And in solidarity, which I gotta give these women props, because they have just been fucking traumatized. And like over half of these women, the ones that can basically adopt the exact same pose in solidarity and they stay there all night. And at this point, media has kind of gotten hold of the story of like all of these peaceful protesters have been rounded up and thrown in jail.

SPEAKER_02 38:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:33

And public opinion is not in their favor. So the powers that be for the prison, the workhouse, are like, mmm, okay, let's call in the doctors, let's feed them, you know, let's let's let's let's try to smooth this situation over. And it does not go well. So, like I said, one of these women uh has had a heart attack.

SPEAKER_02 39:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:03

Literally a heart attack, uh, and was not seen until the next morning when they called the doctors in. One has a concussion, one has several broken ribs, and there are there is a laundry list of other injuries on top of just kind of general PTSD.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:20

Because they didn't do anything to deserve this.

SPEAKER_01 39:23

And and Yeah, and probably terrible, stupid prison practices, and like Yeah. I mean, if you've got a bunch of cars with women in it and you want to get women from one place to another, don't have them all in one place at one time. Right? Get five guys to move one person into a cell, and you do that just over and over and over again.

SPEAKER_04 39:45

And well, yeah, these people aren't that fucking smart. After the guards start to panic and they're freaking out because public opinion is not in their favor, like they're getting phone calls, and uh they're they're starting to panic a little bit. So they're like, all right, let's feed them, let's let's take care of them. They're probably only gonna be here for a little while anyway, because we they even they knew the charges were bullshit. However, our suffragettes are like balls to the wall metal. They start a hunger strike. They will not eat, they will not drink, they will not. Yeah, like it gets to the point where the guards and the superintendent and all of the people in charge are like, fried chicken, it's delicious. Please eat. Uh, and which of course only like insults them and pisses them off further because, like, really? Yeah, really, yeah, fried chicken's the best you can do.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

Well, that was new at the time.

SPEAKER_04 40:47

True, very true.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

Yeah, that would have been a a very, like, a very cool new thing. Shout out Chef Rufus. The inventor of probably the inventor of fried chicken.

SPEAKER_04 40:59

Probably the inventor of person of uh not personal, oh my god, commercial fried chicken.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

Yeah, he was a chef on a train, right? I think so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:06

It's it's been a minute. It's been a very long minute. So, in an effort to get these women to eat, they remove Miss Burns. Like they they take her completely out of this facility and put her in another place. Like they put her in a men's facility. Now, granted, they keep her locked away. Like she is safe, yeah, quote unquote. But they put her somewhere else and they force feed her.

SPEAKER_01 41:33

That's wild.

SPEAKER_04 41:35

Like raw eggs and milk, and then like there's a point where that starts making her sick. So they put they literally put a GI tube down her down her nose. I know you're looking at me crazy.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

I'm thinking, yeah, because in 190 dick, like in 1918, that would have been painful. Painful.

SPEAKER_04 41:55

It was so painful. It caught it literally caused per if the report I've read is to be believed, it caused permanent headaches. Like they they apparently twanged some nerve that she just kind of had headaches the rest of her life. And while she had it, she had horrible, like hemorrhaging nosebleeds.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

Yeah, because they probably scraped the fuck out of everything. Because normally people do this as a last resort, not while you're awake.

SPEAKER_04 42:21

So public opinion of this roundup continues to plummet. Like the powers that be are in fucking trouble because the general public, who was like, mmm, at first because they were criticizing the government, are now like, yo, whoa, hang on, hold up. Wait a minute. This ain't right.

unknown 42:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:41

And they're making their opinion no. Known. Public opinion of this roundup and what little news was leaking out of the prison was so poor that the uh the women were eventually moved from the Ocaquan uh facility in Virginia back to DC under the ruling that since they were arrested in DC, it was unlawful for them to be detained in Virginia. So they're walking it back slowly.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:10

Because that that's the beginning of we fucked up.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

Not not to mention the well, what will become in the future acknowledges a blatant um disregard of the First Amendment rights.

SPEAKER_04 43:22

Correct. So you remember, they all got arrested on uh November 13th, right? Right by November 23rd, they've been in custody for 10 days. All of these women are out on bail.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 43:36

Right? Because like at this point, the powers that be have gone, yeah, we fucked up. You can go, we fucked up.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

Yeah, what should have been a fine, like a scattering of people, like you get chewed and then they fine you is a 10 day where you've been moved across state lines and beat up for 10 days.

SPEAKER_04 43:56

And get this upon their release, ninety Percent of these women were too weak to walk on their own. And this is greatly covered by the media. There are images now that you can see of these like very clearly battered and not okay women. Like their families are coming to them with blankets and they are just falling into their arms. They cannot stand up on their own.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

Well, yeah, if they haven't especially striking for yeah that's hunger strike on top of physical trauma. Yeah. You have to uh yeah, if you're going through it, you gotta eat. I mean, they're they don't because they're politically doing this, right?

SPEAKER_04 44:37

Well, the media covers it. Like I said, there are images of it, and not just like, oh, I'm picking my daughter up from jail, click, you know, say cheese. No, no, no. This is like this, this is this is national media covering this. And the outrage from these images hitting the newspapers is so great that by March of the next year, which mind you, this is November, so it's only like five months.

SPEAKER_01 45:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:01

Four months. I can't count.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

It's something.

SPEAKER_04 45:05

Something. There, they are all of the charges are completely dropped, and their records of the arrest entirely are expunged. Like they walked it all the fucking way back.

SPEAKER_01 45:15

Yeah, because it well, the whole thing was fucked up.

SPEAKER_04 45:17

Yeah. And like, as I understand it, like just from the light glossing of reading that I was doing, because by the time that I got to this part, I was so pissed. I was so angry. I had like 12 tabs open on my laptop, three more on my phone. I was trying to find information because I wanted to know what happened to the jail after that. I wanted to know if they were brought up on charges. I could not find any confirmation of it.

SPEAKER_01 45:43

I seriously doubt it.

SPEAKER_04 45:45

Means that they probably weren't.

SPEAKER_01 45:47

Knowing because I've read other this is a time period where if you are arrested as a young black man, there's a good possibility that they are going to lease your labor out to a coal mine.

SPEAKER_04 45:58

Well, get that.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

It's just the prisons in this time period are fucked.

SPEAKER_04 46:02

They walked it back so hard that they declared the entire event unconstitutional. Like on a Senate level.

SPEAKER_01 46:10

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_04 46:11

Like the entire government had to go, we're sorry. Yeah, motherfuckers.

SPEAKER_01 46:17

Yeah, a peaceful, peaceful protest. You have the right to do it.

SPEAKER_04 46:21

By 1918, President Wilson was publicly down for the Women's Rights Act. Like, he was publicly in for the for the 19th Amendment. Okay? And he said yes, and then the Senate went, ha ha, no. And then literally two years later, had to eat their fucking words as the 19th Amendment passed.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 46:47

So go and fuck yourself.

SPEAKER_01 46:50

Which definitely means though that because like to get to get an amendment passed, you have to have a a like overwhelming majority of both. So it must mean that public opinion changed radically over the next two years. And which great because overdue. Yes. Right?

SPEAKER_04 47:08

Like, oh my god, yes.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

But it's funny because when we think about that in history, we often think about like America was founded so that everyone would have freedoms. They wanted a parliamentary style.

SPEAKER_04 47:28

Well, that was the that was the thing, is that that was all they'd ever known.

SPEAKER_01 47:31

Right.

SPEAKER_04 47:31

Like they didn't have a basis for the government that we would later set up. Thank you, Washington. Which which is who is not a zombie?

SPEAKER_01 47:40

Which is really like fucked up because our lot of our House of Representatives is based off of like the indigenous governmental system of the area. And then also um it existed in other parts of the world. Yeah. It has existed in Iceland for hundreds of years. And like like representative to style democracy um has existed for a very long time. But like a lot of them really only meant a very specific like the the the Senate was meant to be a balance between like democracy and the older way of doing things, where like, all right, so we have a couple of like landed gentry that it's basically a House of Commons House of Lords situation. And uh and and that's that was more or less the balance, is that they wanted to make sure the small states had the same amount of like political pull as the populist states, but like the reason they wanted that is because the small states were plantation states. Yep. And so like that's you you end up with a kind of land gentry. Uh and so it we've always kind of been like that, where we started off and and didn't want to give rights to everyone, and everyone had to fight for this shit. And the early 1900s is a hundred percent like they if you are an immigrant, if you are the wrong color, if you are a woman, if you are like if you are a worker, if you're part of the labor class.

SPEAKER_04 49:12

Oh my god, yes, that's always pissed me off. Because like, how how are you gonna how are you gonna discriminate against the people that keep your country running? Like, I kind of have that mindset now. Yeah, like all of these people that like look down on like people that work in factories, people that run restaurants.

SPEAKER_01 49:28

When like when FDR ran as a Democrat, Franklin Delanor Roosevelt, his cousin, another Roosevelt, um told the newspaper that he had betrayed his class. That's what he wrote. He was like, he's a class traitor, like they knew it was class war. Yeah, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 49:48

Like I don't know, like it's we we we like to gaslight ourselves into thinking that our country is like we're the youngest country, so like we're the most forward and progressive. Shut the fuck up.

SPEAKER_01 50:00

Yeah. No, we we we wanted to be moments, yeah. We had moments where we were tremendously forward thinking, but and then we get bogged down in our own bullshit.

SPEAKER_04 50:11

Anyway, I'm not gonna rant about that because I've already ranted about that today. But yeah, so in 1920, uh the the 19th Amendment passed, and uh the polls lost the ability to discriminate against any person coming up based on their on their sex. Now that didn't stop various states from being like, oh, but can you read?

SPEAKER_01 50:33

That was the thing with with black people as well.

SPEAKER_04 50:36

Yes, and it's infuriating. Like they found they found all the stupid fucking loopholes. Yeah. And then those loopholes were, of course, later obliterated. But it took for fucking ever.

SPEAKER_01 50:49

That straight up still gets brought up. I know. People are like, you should have an intelligence, you should be able to, you should have an IQ test before you can vote. Think about that for a second.

SPEAKER_04 50:58

Oh, buddy, are you sure?

SPEAKER_01 51:01

Yeah, it sounds good in theory until it gets applied, and they're like, Well, who's not smart enough and who gets to write the test? Uh-huh. Fuck.

SPEAKER_04 51:09

I I have I have many rebuttals and many arguments, especially for the people that like argue about immigration or like the qualifications to vote.

SPEAKER_01 51:18

Yeah. Like Do you pay taxes? Are yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:23

Are you sure you want to do this?

SPEAKER_01 51:25

What my whole thing, I I a hundred percent believe this. To the to the point of like, this is a hill I will die on. If you pay taxes, you get to vote.

SPEAKER_04 51:36

Thank you. I agree. Yeah. Because you are you are contributing.

SPEAKER_01 51:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:41

I don't. I had I recently had this argument with my father, who is a product of his generation. I I don't love him any less, even if I loathe what he thinks are his politics. But uh I very recently had a conversation like this because we got into a rather heated uh I hesitate to call it conversation, but it wasn't quite a dispute.

SPEAKER_02 52:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:08

Uh it was it was a it was a charged conversation about the the ice stuff going down. And I was like, you realize that everything coming out of my mouth is a result of your upbringing, right? Everything that I say is what you taught me. I learned this from you. I speak five languages because you taught me to.

SPEAKER_02 52:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:36

Because you said respect other people.

SPEAKER_01 52:40

Yeah. What happened? Whereas what why what what it it's the fear of like cultural change and like I I understand. I no longer speak five languages.

SPEAKER_04 52:50

Let me just put that out there. I did when I was younger. Your girl was a polyglot. Not anymore.

SPEAKER_01 52:57

I I a hundred percent, but like I I get why people don't want, you know, like I to amend my statement about if you pay taxes, you get to vote, right? I get why people are like, well, you need to be a citizen to vote, like state or federal. I get that because it keeps large amounts of people from coming and voting and leaving.

SPEAKER_04 53:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:15

Right? And in a worst case scenario, which is always what you think about when you write laws. You think about the worst case scenario. So it's like, all right, or cities, right? You get people, you don't want people from Houston coming down to vote and then they because they want to influence it.

SPEAKER_04 53:31

That's why we have our own districts.

SPEAKER_01 53:33

Right.

SPEAKER_04 53:33

Like you register to vote and then you get told this is your district and this is the place you go vote.

SPEAKER_01 53:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:38

Problem solved.

SPEAKER_01 53:39

That that way it cannot be rigged as easily.

SPEAKER_04 53:42

I can't go to Victoria and vote.

SPEAKER_01 53:44

Right. Because you feel like the let's say you're a very powerful, wealthy person in one city and you need the laws changed so that you can expand your bullshit.

SPEAKER_03 53:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:53

Right. Like you can't hire a bunch of people to go over there and vote suddenly and then leave. Right. Like, or vote you into power. Because that's another thing. You could have all your friends come from everywhere and vote you for power. So, like, that they came up, they had these arguments centuries ago about why you really should need to be a citizen of an area or need to be known in an area before you vote and all that kind of shit.

SPEAKER_04 54:16

But like I I understand the the legal stipulations that we have.

SPEAKER_01 54:21

I don't get that. I don't understand. What I don't understand, however, is certain people ought to be made ineligible to vote because they got into a bar fight when they were 20. And now they're a felon and can't vote.

SPEAKER_04 54:36

And I'm like people change.

SPEAKER_01 54:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:39

That is the nature of humanity.

SPEAKER_01 54:41

And I don't understand.

SPEAKER_04 54:43

That sounded super philosophical. Like you're so smart.

SPEAKER_01 54:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:46

Oh my god, I just said that.

SPEAKER_01 54:47

I don't understand the the the need for human beings to do what they did to the suffragettes, really to women before the suffragettes.

SPEAKER_04 54:58

What they're what they were uh trying to do recently was it what was it, the Save Act?

SPEAKER_01 55:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:04

That that would have my husband and I discussed it and were like, if this passes, he's like, I want you to go change back to your maiden name. That way you don't have to change any of your other paperwork.

SPEAKER_01 55:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:14

And I was like, whoa, what?

SPEAKER_01 55:16

Because if your paperwork doesn't match, you can't fucking vote. Yeah. It essentially, yeah, endangers women's right to vote.

unknown 55:23

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 55:24

It also ended, but it's and it's aimed, it's it's largely aimed at like because people have brought this up. It's aimed at people who have transitioned, it's aimed at people who and it it's it's like, bro, it's a shotgun approach. It's gonna hit so many people.

SPEAKER_04 55:39

And the the sheer number of people that didn't understand that you're you're the sheer okay, if I say that, I'm gonna launch into another tirade, and I'm not gonna do that because we are running on limited time today. So I'm going to agree with you. Yeah. Look at me. I'm so proud of myself right now. The sheer number of people that don't understand that like you hate this particular group of people, but in the hating of that group of people, the in the discrimination thereof, you are also blaming yourself.

SPEAKER_02 56:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:16

Do you not realize that? All of all of these, all of these conservative leaning people who are like, yeah, yeah, let's throw those laws into effect, but tell me. Does your driver's license match your birth certificate?

SPEAKER_01 56:31

Right.

SPEAKER_04 56:34

Because I'm gonna tell you right now, Miss Marianne Smith, you weren't born Miss Marianne Smith. You were born Marianne Howard.

SPEAKER_02 56:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:44

And you've never needed to change your birth certificate to match anything. What the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 56:50

Yeah. You you not only And there's a snowball, there's a snowball thing to this because when you make these laws, I really do worry about We've already lost bodily autonomy. Yeah, because now there's like precedent for like, well, the government can do this. So what if you want to change like inheritance? Like, what if the most power one of the most powerful lobbies in the country, which is insurance, wants to suddenly say, well, there's a paperwork issue here that so we don't have to pay out the million-dollar life insurance policy.

SPEAKER_04 57:22

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 57:22

I don't know that that will ever happen, but I do know that it is a possibility.

SPEAKER_04 57:26

You have now opened the gateway for it because there is now a discrepancy with your name.

SPEAKER_01 57:31

And I fuck, dude. Any any one of these steps back is like I get time change and it scares people. I but like fuck.

SPEAKER_04 57:40

I'm gonna rat myself out here because I am I am an anxious individual and I mask it very, very well. But when this when this started to come down, like when it became a thing, I had a full-blown, like shaking on the floor panic attack. Because if I don't change my name, if I keep my married name, I can't vote. If I do change my married name, what's to stop them from taking me away from my husband?

SPEAKER_02 58:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:11

And I I get that that is like a sci-fi worst case scenario. But the fact that someone's already thought of it. Hello, handmaid's tale.

SPEAKER_01 58:22

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, dude, I I fuck.

SPEAKER_04 58:26

And like, not to be an alarmist or anything, but like get out there and vote on all of these issues.

SPEAKER_01 58:33

Don't yeah, not just the national one. All the way down.

SPEAKER_04 58:38

Don't let them do it.

SPEAKER_01 58:39

Yeah, it it is I it it shocks me. It will always shock me because I think they're maybe, and maybe some of our listeners are going, like, why are you branching off and all this kind of stuff? Because to us Because it's women's rights. It's yeah, it's related, it's all related, right?

SPEAKER_04 58:53

To me specifically, it's women's rights, and that's what this entire episode was about. Now, granted, it was about the women's right to vote, but it still boils down to women's rights for me.

SPEAKER_02 59:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:04

And then it's like if they take rights away from us, what's to stop them from starting to take them away from you too? That's a hundred percent. That's how it starts. Once you declassify one gender or one people as less than people, it snowballs from there.

SPEAKER_01 59:23

Yeah, and it can work the other way around, too. Like as a guy, right, you go through this most of your life where people tell you like what a guy is supposed to be. Ugh. Yes. Where I'm from, where I got what a guy is supposed to be, often makes people do relatively irrational things. And what I mean by that is like I I went to school with a lot of guys that were very good at school. They had an opportunity to go to a university with scholarship and all that kind of stuff, and a lot of them chose career fields that are not really that lucrative, or the military, not necessarily because they wanted to serve their country, but because it was the masculine thing to do. That's right. Yeah, it it it put them in a direction because they thought that's what they were so because society told them that's what they were supposed to do. And it's like, yeah. While while that in in itself doesn't necessarily lead them into like a harmful place, right? It is it is a marker of like there's an invisible line that just put you into a class. Right?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:28

And and you Societal pressure defined you.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:30

Yeah, right. You you didn't make a decision, like you, you let the box make a decision for you. And that's how that's how you wind up with like social stratums where you say, you know, like where you say, well, these people are supposed to do this kind of job. That I always get squicked by that because I'm like, because it doesn't apply, it didn't apply to the one percenters of my community. It never did, it only applied to the people at the bottom, and that's always how that shit works. I worry about the erosion of women's rights in specific, because they often come from a place of a kind of pseudo-traditional values that never really existed.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:21

It was an ideal that was made up.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:24

And it was never truth.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:27

Yeah, because it's like, well, who's you know, in America we're this big melting pot culture, right? Yeah. And they say, well, like, well, people back then used to act this way. Well, not my people. My people are fucking Scandinavian.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:38

Yeah. It's like that that Where was where was my family at this particular time?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:43

Like let me I don't know, let me check the map.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:46

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:47

Yeah, it's like one side of my family is like has only been here for two generations. Yeah, they're and the other side may have been three or four.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:54

I coming from a wide diverse pathway, right? Yeah. What what what does that even mean? Of just like, well, I understand your your their their point on this this very, very like vague level, but at the same time, no, because they don't have to. We don't live in the fucking 1700s.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:14

Exactly. And we certainly don't live in the Stone Age or the hunting and gathering age anymore.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:18

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:19

We've gone past that. I don't how about we evolve our social standards with it?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:23

I this is the funniest part about me. Like the funniest part of the things that I hear all the time where they're like men are supposed to be hunters and protectors. I was like, I've never had to hunt in my entire life.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:34

Meanwhile, I on the other hand, yeah, yeah, I am proficient with both rifle and bow.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:39

Yeah, I I've been hunting, don't particularly enjoy it. Um, and so I was just like, uh, but I don't I don't have to. Yeah. Um, I've met many women that are very, very physical in their jobs and work construction and automotive.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:56

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:57

Yeah, and and all that kind of stuff, and have never had kids, and yet society didn't fucking collapse. You know what I mean? Like it didn't freak anybody out, they're really good at their job.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:08

Yeah. That's I I don't understand. I I I've never really understood it. Like, by by the traditional standards of like, you know, you follow your parents' pathways in life because it's how you're raised. I either would have gone into the military and been medical, or I would have been medical. No, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:25

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:25

I the knowledge is there, but I don't have the drive or the passion for it. I'm not as nice as my mother, nor am I as organized as my father. No, I'm an artist. I write and I draw shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:40

It would lead to some very interesting sutures.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:44

Fucking just embroidering shit. Okay. I think we're fucking done because we're just riffing at this point.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:53

Yeah, we're going, we're going off on weird need more caffeine tangents.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:58

So yeah, that was the night of terror.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:00

That's so crazy.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:01

Women's suffrage.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:03

If if you just keep pushing, yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:05

You'll win eventually. Right. So never give up.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:07

Because their argument, their argument is just still, but it's the way we've always done it. Yeah, no. Their only argument.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:13

Take the traditionalists and thrill them out the window.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:17

That was a TRF reference that nobody but like four people's gonna get.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:22

Not to like like to revisit like harsh subjects or whatever, but this time period of like the early 1900s is such a it's such an interesting thing because on one hand, when the people are like, they're violent, crazy leftists, some of them are. You are correct, some of them are, and they are still right. Yes, the the the violent, crazy like guys that are doing what they're doing are also doing what they're doing because like work hours are 15 hours in a coal mine.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:53

And women don't have the right to vote. And you have children working in factories, and and kids get taken from their parents because their parents are immigrants, or they can't pay rent, so their children are taken to the workhouse. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:06

Literally, that is the time period we're in. I understand that we romanticize the early 1900s.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:12

Fucking terrible.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:13

Yeah, it's awful. Thing shit don't get like all right, everybody. Thank you for joining us on this horrific trip into the early 1900s and uh American history, which I find that I've been doing a lot of those lately. Anyway, thanks for joining us, Brian. Thank you for being a good sport about me trying to like wrangle my temper back into stay on topic.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:38

I could tell you were mad. I could definitely tell you were mad because we got to what it actually happened and it became very short. And I was like, oh man, she's mega pissed. Yes. Try not to talk.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:48

I am I am I am not going to to continue the thought process that's going in my head. Also, my throat is so dry, and I'm over here like drinking 50 ounces of water.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

Jeez. You mean uh so so we've we've so I so I take it that that grabbing up 40 women, beating the shit out of them, throwing them into jail in Virginia, not on your list of things you like.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:11

No. No, not at all. No.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:15

For the crime of standing around in petticoats with the city. Literally.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:18

Literally, the president himself was like, hey, y'all want to come in and have coffee? Tea and cookies?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:24

Y'all want to come chill inside? It's hot.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:26

Like, I've met people who during protests, I'm like, yeah, if they if they got arrested, I wouldn't agree, you know, I would want them out. Uh, but also, like, I would understand because they're like yelling obscenities at people and throwing things.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:41

But like peaceful protests. There's no fucking reason for that.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:46

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:47

No fucking reason. Anyway, it's not like any of those bitches had like baseball bats typed to their signs.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:52

That is a mirror directly at myself. Only mine was a cricket bat.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:56

Yeah. Um, anyway.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:59

Just not wrap myself out here.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:01

You gotta understand a crumpet.

unknown 1:07:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:05

There's a joke, five people are gonna understand.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:08

No, all right. And on that note, thank you for joining us. We appreciate you so much.

unknown 1:07:15

Bye.