The Viewfinder Sessions | S1:E2 | Diving In

What happens when you mix deep water, total silence, shipwrecks, and a camera?  🌊📸

On this episode of TVS: The Viewfinder Sessions, I sit down with John, a technical diver and underwater photographer who spends hours below the surface exploring places most people will never see.

We talk about rebreather diving (yes, dives that last 6 to 8 hours), why silence underwater changes everything, and what it feels like to descend into darkness until a massive shipwreck suddenly appears out of the blue.

But this episode goes deeper than gear and wrecks.

John opens up about how diving and photography became a lifeline. How peace, purpose, and focus underwater helped him through substance struggles and gave him something to hold onto when life got heavy. The parallels between creativity, risk, safety, and mental health hit hard in the best way.

We also dig into:
 • Why “nothing is worth the shot”
 • Sharks, sturgeon, and hidden Great Lakes wrecks
 • The insane learning curve (and cost) of underwater photography
 • Why video and cinematic storytelling are the next frontier
 • Stories still sitting beneath our own local waters

This isn’t just about diving.
 It’s about what happens when you find the thing that brings you back to yourself.

🎧 Listen now and dive in.
 📍 Follow John: @the_divers_log
🎥 YouTube coming soon

Trust me… you’ll want to hear this one.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 0:00

Good evening, everybody. Sean here from TVS The Viewfinder Sessions. Today I have my man John with me, and we're gonna chit-chat a little bit about underwater diving and photography and wherever that leads us. So welcome, John. Let's have a quick chat and see where we go.

SPEAKER_01: 0:19

Excellent.

SPEAKER_03: 0:20

So tell us a little bit about um kind of what got you into diving.

SPEAKER_02: 0:27

Well, my dad and my aunt were scuba divers, and I always wanted to give it a try. So when I was done in college, I got my basic certification, and then I just kept on developing my skills from there. I got my basic the first summer, and then I went back through and I did my rescue, then my advanced, and then I got into rebreather diving, and now I'm doing more technical stuff with helium.

SPEAKER_03: 0:46

Oh, that's cool. We were talking about before too, about the rebreathing is what it's called, right?

SPEAKER_02: 0:52

Yeah, so I dive a rebreather. So what that allows me to do is it allows me to recirculate the same air over and over again, pulling from a mix of pure oxygen and a diluent mix, which is the same type of air that we're breathing right now, 21%. And then I have a steady stream of 100% that makes up for my body's metabolic rate of oxygen. So then therefore I can keep on rebreathing the same air. But there's still CO2 in the mix. So now I have these two sets of SORB scrubbers that scrub the CO2 out of my breath so I continue to breathe that air safely. And so I know what the partial pressure of oxygen is. I have two sensors in the computer that sits right in my eye, and another three sensors that sit on a computer on my wrist, as well as an on off-board computer that just tells me what's going on with the dive.

SPEAKER_03: 1:35

That is so cool. Like that's the kind of I've I've always thought, I've said to my wife, like when we've gone to, you know, the Caribbean or anywhere where we've traveled, and I'm I'm constantly going, I would love to learn how to dive, but I have a fear of water, which kind of stops me uh a little bit in in doing that. But um I've considered doing the snuba, which is right, you put the the tank over you and you you can walk at about 10 feet or whatever. Um, but how long does that rebreather allow you to stay under?

SPEAKER_02: 2:10

Six to eight hours. Wow.

SPEAKER_03: 2:12

That's absolutely 700 minutes. That's absolutely crazy. And how far, like I would imagine, like, does that differ depending on the depth, or is that doesn't matter? Six to eight hours doesn't matter what depth you're at?

SPEAKER_02: 2:25

Depth, not so much. Temperature, yes. And your work of breathing, how much you're using your scrubber.

SPEAKER_03: 2:31

So learning to kind of breathe, I would assume, slow and steady makes a difference.

SPEAKER_02: 2:38

Definitely in all types of diving, you know, slow and steady is key. And the nice thing about a rebreather is if something goes wrong, you have options. There's many different things you can do. You can plug in off-port air. Nothing happens quickly on a rebreather. It's not like with an open circuit where you have a single tank on your back and you have a free flow. You've only got so long to use that little bit of air that's free flowing out of it, and then you gotta breathe off a buddy's tank.

SPEAKER_03: 3:02

That's uh it it's always astounded me when you know you you look at divers and just I imagine you know, you can go up to space, you can go up in an airplane, and I've never been below the surface of the water. I mean, I've I've been uh I've snorkeled. That's the extent of my below the water uh level. So I it just would be it's incredible to me the world that kind of lives underneath. And and that's where I kind of want to maybe we can chat a little bit about diving and and whatnot, but like how did I mean I kind of know the answer to this, but I'm still gonna ask it. Like, how did you kind of or what got you into uh photography and underwater?

SPEAKER_02: 3:55

So the photography part actually, I was uh with a girl a couple of years ago, and she was a photographer, and then we were doing a couple of different weddings together. So that was cool, and then from there I thought I would transfer it into the underwater world, is being able to share something with the world that not everybody gets to see is kind of the goal here for, you know. I remember the first time I did a deeper dive, I was sitting there on the surface and I looked down and I couldn't see the bottom. So it's kind of nerve-wracking, you know. I was a little scared. Then I start descending down this line and I get to a point where I look up and I can't see the surface anymore. I look down and I can't see the bottom, and all you can see is just this little white rope in front of you. And you keep on following the rope down, and you get a little deeper and a little deeper, and then you start to see a little shadow, and then bam, out of the abyss, there's just this huge shipwreck that you get to go and play on. And I'm thinking, I'm one of only a handful of people that actually get to see this with their eyes and how it is today.

SPEAKER_03: 4:58

That's so cool.

SPEAKER_02: 4:59

And it just I got hooked with that idea of being able to share those moments with the world.

SPEAKER_03: 5:04

What's your favorite kind of dive/slash ship? I know we were talking before we started recording. Um, I couldn't even imagine that. And maybe we'll we'll talk about that in a in a few minutes, maybe, unless that's your favorite. But um, what's kind of your favorite dive that you've done and images that you've got to take in underwater? My favorite dive. That's a tough one. Um I'd have to say the next one. Yeah. I like that. I like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 5:31

My favorite images, though. Um when I first started getting into photography, I took this nice half and half picture. So the camera's half out of the water, half under the water, and it was in the fall, so you can see all the leaves on the bottom, and then you can see one leaf just floating in the top. That's a photo that I really like.

SPEAKER_03: 5:49

That's cool. Yeah, I've I've considered, you know, in the again, because we talked before we started recording, like I don't have any desire to become an underwater diver or photographer. I envy the guys that I know. Like we were talking to was uh Dave Stanford, Paul Nicklin. Um, you know, the some of the images that that they come up with of whether it's sharks or whales or fish, or even even when you see like the schools of fish. I saw an image the other day. Um, I forget who took it, uh, but it was a school of fish. And whoever took the image was pretty far away. But there was another diver that was kind of diving towards this, like almost like this portal. And I'm just sitting there going, I'll never do it. But that is absolutely mind-blowing to me, right? How you you and I think you hit the nail on the head, is it's just such a a different world from someone like myself who is wildlife, uh long exposure. Um I love nature and and what I can see with my eye, but it's it's I find I've been told a lot in my photography that people the reason people follow me is they don't they're never gonna get to see what I've seen or do what I do, or or maybe it's it's someone who is immobile and and doesn't get outside much. I imagine, like you said, you know, just hearing that gives me shivers because it's like you you're kind of diving into this abyss and you don't see anything, you don't see anything, and then all of a sudden there's this world that nobody unless you dive gets to see. Um so it it's pretty it's pretty crazy for me. And one of the things on on this podcast, um, by the way, John's a first guest, um that I want to kind of get to as well, if you're comfortable with it, is is talking about so you know you you got into diving, which then obviously led to uh grabbing a camera. Um but what does, if anything, what does diving and or photography or both at the same time, what does that do for you as a person? And to kind of set that up for you, like for me, uh I always tell people when I'm when I'm doing presentations, like, if it wasn't for photography, if it wasn't for nature, I wouldn't be here from a mental health perspective. Uh and and so I really want to use the podcast to get into things like diving, underwater photography, but also kind of come back to that question of what does it give you? So it gives other people a look into a world they don't get to see, but what does it give John?

SPEAKER_02: 8:52

Sure. For me, you know, it's it's now let to I get down there and I just feel such a sense of peace, sereneness. I'm in a place where it's not, you know, not a lot of people are there, not a lot of people get to see it, but the beauty is there, whether if it's in an old shipwreck that has a lot of history to it, that's still very much alive in the depths, even though it's in a dark place, or if it's, you know, diving in Egypt and seeing all of the pretty coral fans that have been down there for a hundred, two hundred years, and they're just massive fish everywhere as far as the eye can see, and the variety of different animals down there is just so unique, and that inspires me to keep on pushing more for that. I think diving's something that has really given me a lot of peace in life, and I'm eager to do more.

SPEAKER_03: 9:44

And so why do you why do you think like why do you think again, asking questions that I think kind of think I know the answer to, but like why do you think diving specifically for you brings you peace?

SPEAKER_02: 10:00

I find diving for me brings me a lot of peace because when I was younger, my aunt she used to be a diver and I always wanted to go diving with her. And she had gotten sick and she passed away suddenly, and I never really had the opportunity to go diving with her. But now that I'm able to go and do that diving, I find very a very big sense of peace when I'm down there, as if, you know.

SPEAKER_03: 10:24

Kind of like she's there with you. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's cool. I like that. I I've I I love hearing stories like that where there's the there's been this kind of loss and yet it's almost at the same time a gift.

SPEAKER_02: 10:42

I find it so strange, you know. I'll be out diving or doing this and that, and then when I'm done on that trip and I'm ready to go home or something, I'll turn on the radio. And every time there's a song that she used to like to play, and it'll just randomly come on. It just gives me chills.

SPEAKER_03: 10:55

That's so cool. That is so cool. I I I wonder, you know, it's funny how we talk about like six degrees of separation. Um and I I sometimes wonder things seem to be a lot closer than six degrees. I don't know like for yourself, but like for me, things seem to just happen for a reason. And and out of that comes this amazing thing. Well, and and funny, like when you showed up and realizing that your parents owned the the the fourplex next to me, I had no idea. And and yet here we are, we've been talking for what, I think about a year now, half a year, and maybe over a year. Yeah, a little over a year now. Um and no clue that there's that much of a a connection there. And I just really find that that's that's unique in travel, it's unique in creative outlets, it it's unique even in our area. I always I always joke with people. I mean Sarnia Lambton. It's insane how I've traveled around the globe and I somehow find someone who's from Sarnia or you know, Sarnia Lambton or or Forest or somewhere nearby. But um Where did you did you grow up in this area? Yeah, so I grew up in Dresden.

SPEAKER_02: 12:28

Okay. And then I went to school in Wallsburg.

SPEAKER_03: 12:31

And that's where you are now, right?

SPEAKER_02: 12:32

Is now I live in Chatham.

SPEAKER_03: 12:33

Chatham. That's right. Yeah, it's uh do you so diving wise? What have you again? I think I know the answer to this, but what have you done for dives around here?

SPEAKER_02: 12:48

Around here, well, this is the Big River, which is nice. You can do lots of drift dives there. You usually see lots of zebra mussels, of course. Odd times you'll see some old bottles and whatnot laying around, which is pretty neat. Lots of bass you'll see swimming around, and it's funny because when you're diving, they'll come right up next to you.

SPEAKER_03: 13:03

They won't get on my line. It doesn't matter how much I fish, they won't get on my line.

SPEAKER_02: 13:08

Yeah, they'll swim right beside you and they'll follow you for a little while. And they've got this weird little circuit where if there's a couple of them, they'll pass back and forth with each other. That's pretty interesting. Up under the bridge in Sarnia, I've been to, which is pretty nice that would be unique. There's a tugboat down there, there's an old barge, there's lots to see there. What's that? Even um a couple sturgeons, and I've seen I haven't really seen a big one. I saw like a five or six foot one the one day, but earlier this year when I was out diving, I just saw a little baby one, probably the size of my hand, and it was quite interesting to see. I was like, oh, here's a little baby shark. That's hilarious. I've seen. And then for around here, I guess that's more of the local dives I've done. I've been up to Tobamori, I've done Kingston, Galboa Cori in Ohio is really neat because they've got a couple paddle fish there. Oh, yeah. It's kind of cool to see.

SPEAKER_03: 13:58

That I know just off of um just off of you know where the cove is in uh Canaterra, like where I think it's the marina, the the sail marina. Just off of there is a shipwreck, right? Yeah. What one is that? Do you know? Have you done that one?

SPEAKER_02: 14:15

I have, I don't know the name of it off the top of my head. No, is there's there's a barge and then there's a tugboat down there.

SPEAKER_03: 14:23

Okay. That's so cool.

SPEAKER_02: 14:24

There's a plaque on it. I can't remember what it is. The current there though is so fast. That's crazy. Like I'd love to bring my big camera there and get a couple pictures of it, but with the current, it it would be a disaster. You'd have to have something little for that.

SPEAKER_03: 14:39

Yeah. Well, and that kind of begs the question. What what uh what type of gear do you use when when you're diving?

SPEAKER_02: 14:46

You know, you there's a different tool for each job, right? You know, the rebreather is nice, but it's not necessarily the perfect thing for everything. In the big river, I think personally, you know, a single tank or a set of doubles on your back is ideal. But then when you're doing your deeper dives where there's no current and there's more technical stuff going on, you're breathing different gases, the rebreather is ideal.

SPEAKER_03: 15:10

And when it comes to photography stuff, what are you using when you're going down?

SPEAKER_02: 15:15

The rebreather is excellent for that because with the rebreather, you don't make any bubbles. So you can get nice and close to the wildlife and usually doesn't bother them. So on my last trip when I was in Chuck Lagoon, it was really neat. It was probably, I don't know, I want to say it was a 16 or 17-foot gray reef shark, and it was coming right up towards me and my body. And then as soon as it got a little closer, I heard the guys that were on open circuit with the bubbles, and he just darted right away. You know, that's the misconception about sharks. They're so fearful of people. To get close to them is quite a challenge.

SPEAKER_03: 15:48

Yeah, and I mean that would be that would be I mean, I've done the the touristic-y, like swim with a shark or swim with with the dolphins and whatnot, but man, it it is it would be it would be a fear that a lot of people I think would have to like get over in the water.

SPEAKER_02: 16:10

The first time I saw a shark was when I was in Egypt and it was an oceanic white tip, and he was coming in, and my first thought was holy shit, that's a big fish. And as soon as he got a little closer, he came in so fast he just slowed down on a dime, and then you think, Holy shit, where does he go? That is a beautiful big fish. That's crazy. My mindset shifted on a dime just from a little being fearful to wow, that is just beautiful.

SPEAKER_03: 16:39

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02: 16:40

You know, seeing an animal of such size just moving around like it's nothing in the water, it's just something about Way when you see when you see like the pros that go under and and take the video of it, it does, it seems like that.

SPEAKER_03: 16:54

It seems like they're very slow moving. And and yet I would kind of think they're not moving that slow. Like they're moving quite quickly, but it just looks so slow underneath.

unknown: 17:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 17:07

Um, I wanted to ask you too. Um, so I know we were talking about before. Uh when you dive, do you take for like since you got into the photography side of things, what um what have you used when you're shooting underwater? What what camera, what lens, what type of and and do you use different ones for different settings?

SPEAKER_02: 17:36

Yeah, so right now I use uh Nikon D800. I shoot that with use that with a fisheye lens, a wide angle lens, which works pretty well for me. I do have an IFD50, but I haven't used it so much underwater. I would like to get more into a macro setup, which would be good. And I think ideally for underwater, the best types of lenses is to be able to have that wide angle, but also if you can switch to a macro at the same time, which means you have to have a better housing for the camera. But in order to bring the camera underwater, you've got to have your aquatica or any housing force that you can put the camera in to seal it off. Then you need a big set of lights because a little light's nice, but it ain't gonna do the trick. So I've got a big set of blue, big blue lights. They're about 15,000 lumens each, and I've got one on both sides of the camera.

SPEAKER_03: 18:21

So when so the D800, uh, which is a great lens, I mean the D800 and the D850, before mirrorless came along, they were kind of the the the go-tos. Um what housing do you use? I use an Aquatica. Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 18:39

Camera housing.

SPEAKER_03: 18:40

I know I've heard of they're not the same as Aquatec, right? There's a I think there's one, there's a brand called AquaTech. Uh and then there's another brand too that I've heard of.

SPEAKER_02: 18:51

Yeah, there's a Not a Cam and iClay as well.

SPEAKER_03: 18:53

I've heard of that one.

SPEAKER_02: 18:54

Yeah. And then if you want to get into more of the cinematic cameras, you're gonna want to get at Gates housing because that's the cream of the crop right there.

SPEAKER_03: 19:02

Yeah, yeah. So what's the dream, man, with with both maybe you can answer it in in kind of a two-part where like the dream for diving, diving in and of itself, I think, is is one whole thing. And then shooting underwater and capturing imagery underwater is another. But like, what are your kind of dreams and goals of either or both together?

SPEAKER_02: 19:29

Yeah, so the dream would be if I could find a way where I can travel the world and film and document. Pictures are great. I love a picture. I feel like it's a silent way of telling a story, but you can't tell that story without more context. So that's where the video has to come into play. So a little bit of both of that, but the big idea is if I can travel around, film, document, and share the beauty of the underwater world with the rest of the world.

SPEAKER_03: 19:57

That would be the dream, yeah, man.

SPEAKER_02: 19:59

That's the idea.

SPEAKER_03: 20:00

That's what I'm kind of working towards little by little. So what what when you say like just to capture on that, like little by little, what are some of the things that like again it's pretty niche, but like if there's anybody watching or listening who dives now but doesn't do photography or does photography and would love to learn how to dive, like what are some of the things that you're doing to better yourself? But like how can people kind of get into this world of underwater diving and photography? And what kind of tips and tricks would you recommend?

unknown: 20:39

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_03: 20:40

And what do you do? What do you do yourself to keep growing and learning?

SPEAKER_02: 20:45

You know, you you have to fail. You have to fail. It's trial and error. You know, some things work, some things don't. And then a lot of times you gotta go back to the drawing board and try something completely different. You know, lighting is key. Oh, I can't. And regardless if you're gonna be doing this, it's going to be quite pricey. Let me tell you. There's nothing cheap about diving, especially underwater photography.

SPEAKER_03: 21:11

It's funny because I mean, photography alone is incredibly expensive. So to add in the aspect of diving.

SPEAKER_02: 21:19

Yeah, now you've got to add there's big housing on your camera, and then you've got to add in lights as well. And you have to be extremely comfortable in the water. Your buoyancy has to be peak, it has to be good. Because if you're bouncing all around, you're not gonna get a steel shot. Yeah. There's a lot of different aspects to it. And you also have to at the same time have to be able to manage your gas consumption, your computers, your depths, what you're gonna do about deco if you're going into deco. There's all sorts of different things to manage all at once.

SPEAKER_03: 21:50

And talk about that. I know what you're what you're talking about there, but like explain what that is, how it happens, and what to do in those moments.

SPEAKER_02: 21:58

Yeah. So when I first started getting to photography underwater, you know, it was very overwhelming. It was too much. I was definitely trying to, I still am, you know, trying to run before I walk, so to speak. But when I first got into it, it was very much this cycle of okay, point C computer, picture, that's off a justice, buoyancy computer, air, picture, that's wrong, justice, point to computer. And it's this continuous cycle of doing something. So you're task loading yourself out the wazoo. So before you know it.

SPEAKER_03: 22:30

It's it it I I couldn't even. That's where it's funny when you start to to talk in these different kind of niches and sectors, because what we were talking about before we started recording was like getting into even even this podcasting. Like you'd think plug in a mic, throw up a video, and away you go. And and realistically, you can. Like it it is really that that kind of easy, but you're always I find myself always trying to like I don't just want to half ass it the first time. Like I want it to be good. I want it to be like I want people to be able to see it and understand it and and not shit to bed, so to speak, the first go. But at the same time, you know, you talk about running before you're walking. I don't know if there's I think you have to do that. Well I think you have to run, I think you have to challenge yourself because you said it a few moments ago, but like you have to fail.

SPEAKER_02: 23:39

You do, you do, for sure. But you have to make like especially when you're bringing it underwater, you have to make sure that you're safe about everything. Yeah. It's a whole different element. It's an extreme environment, you know, especially here in Canada, it's cold. Yeah. And it's, you know, especially if you're deep, if you're getting hit a narcosis hit or something like that, things change very quickly. I've had a dive before where I've gone in and my light froze up right away. I'm down 150 feet and my brain's not on straight because I'm getting narked. And it was, nope, we put the camera away, deal with what's going on, handle the light. My mask fogged up, I had to clear it. And then by the time I got everything straightened out, I was already starting to inch into Dico. So at that point, it was all right, well, we won't take too much time here. We've already had a stressful first part of the dive. There's no sense in pushing it anymore. But in those senses, you have to be able to make those difficult calls of what's appropriate and what isn't and what's safe and what isn't safe. You know, there's no shot worth injuring yourself for underwater.

SPEAKER_03: 24:39

Well, and you bring up a good question too, like, or a good point. Sorry. Um above ground. Um it's one of those things where photographers, we tend to, whether you're underwater or you're above water, you tend to do things to get the shot. And one of the things, I mean, I'm guilty of it, everybody's guilty of it, right? Where you push it a little bit, you get a little too close to an animal, you go a little too deep, you try a little too much. Um, but it's in those tiny little failures or people that that kind of point out to you, like, not a smart move. And one of the things that I I really have been pushing in the photography side of things to myself, but to others as well, is nothing is worth the shot. Like, whether it's scaring wildlife, whether it's it's causing wildlife to change their their characterization their character or or their personality or their you know, whatever's happening, if you've altered that, um, that you've altered it, right? They they are no longer paying attention to what they were doing. And so I love that you touch on that because it it's it's equally important above and below, um, where constantly reminding yourself uh as a diver, as a photographer, um nothing's worth it. Nothing is worth not nothing is worth, there are some things that are worth getting a shot, but death is not worth getting the shot. Um you know, uh affecting wildlife or affecting another person. Uh I'm just thinking of it in my head, but you know, let's say you don't put that camera away. Um, and I imagine you typically do you dive solo or do you dive with others?

SPEAKER_02: 26:35

I always try to dive with a buddy, yes.

SPEAKER_03: 26:37

And and again, solo is fine because you can do that solo, but it's one of those other things where keeping that camera out, now you're not only putting yourself in danger, if something happens to you, your partner's the one that's gonna have to take care of you and figure out how to quote unquote rescue you. And so it's a great point that I really want to focus on in these different conversations that I'm having on the podcast of push the limits, push the boundaries, because it's those who push those limits and boundaries that get those images that are world-changing, right? Um, I mentioned already, but like I think of of guys like Paul Nicholin um and his partner MIDI, uh, they have done some crazy things underwater and above water to get images. But they're also pros who have made a whole bunch of mistakes and learned to get to that part where, but even for them, right, their limit for what is too far is a heck of a lot different than what our limits are for what's too far, right?

SPEAKER_02: 27:45

That reminds me back to when I first started using the camera, you know. I was told a lot, like you should slow down a little bit, maybe don't bring the camera on this dive, yada yada yada. And I still tried to take it out as often as I could and push that. And now I'm a lot more comfortable with it. But if I didn't push that at first, it wouldn't have worked, but I was trying to learn a vast set of skills all at once in a hurry.

SPEAKER_03: 28:04

Yeah. Well, and again, it's it's that whole understanding, like it's okay to try to push it, but the fact that in that one kind of situation you mentioned, right, like you get to a point where you if you can realize I gotta put this camera away because I need to focus on my safety. And I think that's the key, is is if if you push yourself, we push ourselves to these limits, but can we, when it's necessary, put the brakes on and go, hang on a second, what's more, what's more important in this moment? A shot of that shipwreck or that fish or that bear or my life or the safety of the people that are with or around me. And I think that's key. Uh absolutely huge key that we often forget.

SPEAKER_02: 28:51

That's one thing I like to say. You know, everybody's a good diver until shit it's the fan. And then you get to see who's really a good diver and who isn't.

SPEAKER_03: 28:57

Yeah, well, I and it's it's funny. Like I was when I was in the uh up in uh Churchill there with the Bears, um, I think it was my first time up. And we were out on uh on a uh buggy, tundra buggy, and there's always one in a crowd, and he kept putting his fingers through the grate, and I'm like, what are you doing? Like, why are you doing that? Like there's and I don't I don't even understand why he was doing it, but like I think he was trying to get cameras close or whatever, and and not too long after we had a polar bear comes up right underneath and stands up and puts his nose right up to the grate and he's sniffing my boots, and you know, I'm just sitting there going, like, nothing's worth what you're trying to do. Like, just stop. And I think that's the that's the the age-old um thing in in all things in life, but like when we talk about photography and and in your case, uh diving is just making sure that you understand yourself, you understand your limits and and when to to put that brake on, I think is key. Um yeah, that's I'm I'm I I know when I first saw you kind of come across my my feed about a year ago, like I was saying to you, right? Like I find what you're getting into. I mean, you're you've been diving for quite some. How long have you been diving? You said like five years now. Five years? Um, how many dives have you done, do you know?

SPEAKER_02: 30:24

Oh, well over a hundred.

SPEAKER_03: 30:25

Yeah, that's crazy. Like, so you've been diving for some time, and the photography is kind of what's coming into the picture, as you which makes sense because I mean, like you said, once you get underwater and you've sort of become an expert at at diving, then you start to go, okay, the world's gotta see this. And and I remember I seen I seen an image, and and I you you kind of laugh, and like I've been doing photography for some time, but like you can take an amateur shot of yours and someone like me will go, Oh my goodness, like that's a shipwreck. Like, I'm so jealous of watching the shots that you put up because it's like imagery is much photography is much differ more difficult underwater. I I I'm sure once you get into it, it's it's no different than than what I'm doing. But there's a learning curve there. But I just imagine that once you've kind of mastered the art of photography underwater, how much crazier it gets. But just seeing your what you would consider amateur shot, I look at it and I just go, God, that's better than anything I put up because it's so different. Yeah, it's so unique.

SPEAKER_02: 31:37

Well, just get a great shot underwater. You know, you it's not a one-man show. You need a team of people. You gotta have people at different angles holding lights in a certain spot. You gotta have a safety diver around, and then you've got to be back and try and frame everybody in the right position and make sure that you don't put sure it's quite the challenge to get a great shot when you've got that circus of people down there, but it's definitely one guy isn't gonna do it by himself.

SPEAKER_03: 32:03

Yeah, and it when you get into the especially when you get into like you said, you want to go down that more film documentary, I presume, kind of avenue. Uh it's I've I mean I'll watch it because I love it, but it's like when you look at the gear that they use and the teams that they have, it just is absolutely insane to me. Um yeah, so let's dive in just for a few minutes and and and kind of dive a bit deeper into when like from a mental health perspective, have you ever dealt with anything in your life that when you look at diving and you look at photography, how have those two things helped get you through or or um kind of bring we talked about peace, but like how has that helped you in any way, shape, or form with anything you've dealt with in life?

SPEAKER_02: 32:58

You know, if it wasn't for diving or photography, I like you said, there's there's no reason for me to be hanging around here anymore. Yeah. You know, I went through a time where I was having, you know, substance issues and made it through that. But throughout that case, you know, if I didn't have diving, I would have never had that push to try and fix my life and put it back together.

SPEAKER_03: 33:22

Yeah. It's amazing the more conversations I get into about creative outlets, um, whether that's photography, videography, um diving, it is is a creative art to me.

SPEAKER_02: 33:38

Yeah, it's always been something that I could look forward to. Where's the next dive gonna be? Where's the next image gonna be? How am I gonna frame that picture? And thinking about when I'm about to go do a dive, where do I want to be when I take that image? Where do I want the light to be when I'm taking that image? How do I want it to look?

SPEAKER_03: 33:55

And I imagine that's the other the other aspect of underwater stuff is a lot of planning because you gotta stage your lights, you've got to plan your dive, you gotta plan your gases. I want to go shooting right now. I just grab my camera and head to the nearest field. With you, it's like just the the fact of getting dressed and then getting your tanks ready and your this, it's it's a whole ordeal.

SPEAKER_02: 34:19

You gotta put your gear together, you gotta put your camera together, you gotta book the trip, you gotta book the boat, you gotta get out there, you gotta have a team ready, and then you gotta make sure you've got all your lights and gear ready to go. There's all these different checks you gotta do.

SPEAKER_03: 34:31

Certifications. Um what what uh do you have any like a present patty or anything? Like what are the different certifications that you can get and what do you currently have?

SPEAKER_02: 34:42

Yeah, so I have a I've got my patty basic, I've got my patty advanced, and then I'm also a rescue diver through patty, and then a TDI Revo Rebreather Diver for Mod 1, and then a Helotrox diver so TDI.

SPEAKER_03: 34:56

So, like what else helium? What else can you get into, or is that like the bulk of it?

SPEAKER_02: 35:02

No, so from here I can go down to mod two, which can make it makes it so I can dive down to 200 feet, and then from there there's mod three, and then after mod three, there's your expedition diving. But these are all technical diving. Recreational levels are typically down to 130 feet. Okay. When you get into the more technical side of things, there's you know, your mod two, your mod three, then mod four, you call it more or less expedition diving. That's as far as you can go, and then after you do that, you can dive something like the Britannic, which is the Titanic sister ship that sunk off of Greece, Italy.

SPEAKER_03: 35:32

That's how far under is that?

SPEAKER_02: 35:34

Uh 375 feet, 400 feet to the mud.

SPEAKER_03: 35:37

That's crazy. That's absolutely like when I when you try to put that into perspective, it's like when you think 300 feet in the air, you think that's not a lot. Like when you when you think of it, but like I don't know why to me it feels like 300 feet sounds like forever below the ocean level.

SPEAKER_02: 35:57

Like, you know, and the amount of like you said, right, the amount of kind of abyss that you kind of are going through to get to that level is that's the kind of dive, you know, you're spending hours on it regardless, and you're only gonna be at the bottom for you know 10, 20 minutes if you're lucky. Then you just spend a couple hours just trying to come back after you're done doing your deco stop.

SPEAKER_03: 36:16

Because you come up in right, you you come up in stages, right?

SPEAKER_02: 36:19

Yeah, you can't do that. And it where does you stop, you'll do a deco stop, then you'll come up another five feet, two feet, depending on how deep you were, ten feet, and then do another deco stop.

SPEAKER_03: 36:28

So when when you talk about deco stops, uh what's the full word on that deco?

SPEAKER_02: 36:32

Decompression.

SPEAKER_03: 36:33

Decompression, right? So what how far down can you go before that's necessary?

SPEAKER_02: 36:42

Um after about 30 feet, 35 feet, you should do a safety stop. Okay. But realistically, if you are, you know, diving open circuit, single tank on your back, they call it a safety stop because you don't need to do it, but you should do it for your safety. Once you go into DECO, though, at depth, that's when you it's mandatory. That's when there's a physical, not a physical, but there's there's a roof above you. And if you go past that roof, you've got too much nitrogen dissolved into your bloodstream, those air bubbles are gonna start to expand way too quickly, and then you're gonna have a blockage, and then you get bent, and then you gotta go for a chamber ride.

SPEAKER_03: 37:24

So is there like a level that that hits, or is that where you you trust your monitors and everything that you've got with you?

SPEAKER_02: 37:32

Um it's called decompression theory at the end of the day. It is theory. What works for one doesn't work from all. Uh, way back in the day, the Navy divers, they did uh tons of testing. A lot of people died, and they figured out what works and what doesn't work. But at the end of the day, it's still just a theory. There was a lady in England recently that did a uh podcast, you could say, she talked about how she's one of those people that didn't quite fit in that theory, and she got bent out of her mind, had to go to a chamber ride for six hours. Luckily it was just six hours, which isn't so bad, but that's that's crazy.

SPEAKER_03: 38:09

Yeah. It's it's it just introduces such a whole new meaning. Like when I think of photography and how much I love it, um there are certain niches that I look at and I'm just like, that is so different. Like underwater being one macro, right, is is another uh aspect of photography where it's different gear, it's a different setup, and I just I I I love it. I absolutely love it, and I love I love how people can take something like diving, uh, something like hiking, and and you start to combine these these sort of passions that allow you to um get out and learn and see um and experience things that you just wouldn't if you sat on a couch watching TV.

SPEAKER_02: 39:08

Sure, being able to look behind the walls, you know, that you never knew existed and see life from a whole different perspective. You know, there's some some sort of beauty in that.

SPEAKER_03: 39:17

Yeah. Yeah. So um we're probably gonna finish up here in a few minutes, but what uh what are your goals for like we we know moving into the future, film and hello Nat Geo. Yeah, we're here, we're just tell us what we need to do. Um but what like for 2026, what's kind of your um your goals for this year?

SPEAKER_02: 39:50

This year I'd like to work more towards into the video side of things. Um definitely do I've got a couple things in mind, you know, doing a couple Tomori trips, maybe going down to Florida. To do the um SS United States that they're going to be syncing soon. Oh, yeah. That's an idea. Um, but doing more of the video side of things and working on the editing portion because there is a learning curve there for me still. Yeah. Um, and then hopefully eventually would be to uh work towards getting uh Komodo X and doing more of the cinematography stuff and starting to make short film documentaries of the shipwrecks in the Great Lakes that are kind of hidden that nobody knows about. Yeah, that's that's the idea here.

SPEAKER_03: 40:31

Because I know, I know, like, I mean, I know the stuff exists and it's out there, but it's not like there's the Wexford not hip and cool. Like nobody's gone, I don't think, anyways. You probably know better than me, but like I haven't seen anybody do anything special on the Great Lake shipwrecks.

SPEAKER_02: 40:47

Yeah, well, even as close as Grand Bend, we've got a ship called the Wexford that stunk sunk in the storm in 1913. There was 12 guys on board, not one of them was older than 18. Wow. And they were carrying a load of corn and it went down in that storm and just disappeared. Wow. And they were kids no older than 18, 19 on that ship.

SPEAKER_03: 41:06

Wow, eh. That's uh that's cool, man. I I like like I say, when we first kind of connected, that's I just am drawn to what it is you're doing. And and one of the things that I've said with TVS and and even only nurse photography, like um it isn't about an individual, I don't think. I think it's it's it's about connecting with other like-minded people and and promoting each other and helping each other and working together. Um, like just today I was on a phone call with with uh a lady and just the contacts that we're making together and and kind of the work that we're now looking at doing together, and it it's this business of photography um is so huge that everybody has an opportunity to make a difference. Um, you know, you talk about wanting to show people, you know, the world that's below, and and and I get that same passion, even though there's millions of us. Um I get that same passion every time I go out and I see a cardinal or I see a blue jay, I always tell myself, not shooting it today. I'm not gonna shoot another godforsaken blue jay. And then it just stares at me and I shoot it. And you know, it's it's one of those things where it just never gets old, and you know that that's that's when this is what you're supposed to be doing. Because when something so basic still excites you, that's passion. And and once you have a passion for something, I think you chase that with everything that you have. Um and I I'm a firm believer that you know if if if your dreams and your goals are X, Y, Z, they're achievable. It's just it's up to us uh to to do it, right? Um before we go, talk a little bit about more for me, because I think it's really flipping cool. Um so John just did a dive at Pearl Harbor.

SPEAKER_02: 43:32

No, no, uh not Pearl Harbor, Chip Lagoon, the other side of the Pacific.

SPEAKER_03: 43:35

The other side. So talk about um what we were talking about before about that dive and just like the things that you got to see there.

SPEAKER_02: 43:44

Yeah, so that was a real neat trip that I got to go on too. So I had to fly from Toronto to LA, LA to Hawaii, Hawaii all the way to Guam, and Guam down to Chuk. So back in World War II after the attack on Pearl Harbor, when the Americans decided it was time to go back at the Japanese, they bought had a three-day raid on Truck Lagoon or Truck Lagoon, depending on where you come from, which is which one you call it. So they sunk a lot of merchant ships there. So there's everything from you know submarines there to torpedoes to fighter jets to bombers there still. It's really neat, and you could even see like these big torpedo holes inside the sides of the halls. And some spots you can still see the remnants of like human remains that were there and whatnot.

SPEAKER_03: 44:30

We were talking about that before, like uh and I don't care. I mean, this channel isn't gonna be for for kids. So, I mean, one of the things he was talking about was seeing the human remains, and and like I think that's what's wild to me is is that in that world under underneath the surface of the ocean and and the lakes, there's not just uh things and and fish, there is like the stories of that.

SPEAKER_02: 45:00

Well there's the history of it, right? I mean, to think that there's still the imprint of somebody's hand that's been down there for 80 plus years, and now there's been reclaimed by coral life and fish, and something that was so sad at the time where the Chukeese people really suffered from, has now turned into quite something very beautiful with all the different colors and marine life and anemones that are there. You know, even though the ships aren't up and afloat anymore, there's still a lot of life on them.

SPEAKER_03: 45:30

I I use this story uh recently. Um I was in uh a familiar um cemetery in London, and it's known for a family of deer that are in the cemetery. They live there all year long. Um and I went and I was walking one day and I was just shooting it. I I'd seen a few deer, like uh adult deer, but I had never seen fawn, like a fawn, a baby deer, let alone captured it. I mean, I've seen them in zoos or wherever, but um so this elderly couple were walking and we got to talking and chit-chatting, and um, long story short, they took my information, and then like two days later, she called me and she's like, a fawn was just born. And so I went searching, found the fawn, and took shots of this fawn. And uh one of the things when I was editing it is is uh tying into what you just said there when you look at a photo of this baby fawn with his baby teeth, uh, and and the spots and all curled up right next to a tombstone. And and I'm sitting there thinking, uh this tragic and life are all in the same piece. Right there. And and it's kind of that that selling point to me. And when I think about kind of what you said there, is like there's tragic. It like the stuff that you're you're gonna be capturing outside of like the wildlife that's underneath the surface of of the water, is tragedy. But oftentimes that tragedy has become something that's full of life and full of beauty, and I love that aspect. And I think that's kind of what you know we'll we'll kind of wrap up here in a second with that thought line of you know you talked about substance abuse, um mental health for me, um sexual assault. Um you look at the tragedies in our own individual lives that we faced and how photography, diving, hiking, winter camping, like these things that we've taken and and are able to tell a story with what we're doing, but also look at what we're doing being the very thing that kind of I don't want to be corny or anything, but like saved us, right? Like you know, and and it it it really it really did. And um I think you know, when you look at that conversation from you and and the the deer for me, like there is so much tragedy, and I I mean I'm not gonna get into what's even been happening the last few days in the world, but there's so much tragedy, and I struggle every day, and I'm sure you probably do as well, in looking around and just going, ah, but then it for me, as soon as I pick that camera up and I get to Dow Wetlands down the road, or or I get to Canaterra Park, um, I might be angry, I might be sad, I might be whatever. Within five minutes of being behind that lens, I've I've taken notice and I'm like, I'm laughing because I'm following this stupid golden crown kinglet that flies like this, and I'm laughing. And then I I've caught myself a couple of times and I just stop and go, You're just pissed off like five minutes ago, and this is what this does for me.

SPEAKER_02: 49:26

And I don't laugh too hard, you're real, mate. Right?

SPEAKER_03: 49:29

Where and and I'm sure the same for you, right? Like you you have these moments in life, but once you get into that water, once you you know you strap on your gear and you you get that camera and you get underwater, um peace, and and it just changes everything.

SPEAKER_02: 49:45

Yeah, the second you jump in, you know, you get down there, you get situated, you get everything ready to go, and it's it's peaceful, it's go time.

SPEAKER_03: 49:53

Yeah, that's it's exactly it's go time. Well, man, I am super stoked uh that we finally got a chance to actually meet and and like sit down and connect. And uh I don't know how, I know someday we'll do something together. Uh yeah when it comes to photography. I I I I'm learning to say never say never. Um, but I doubt I'm ever gonna go on any kind of crazy deep dives, but I do I do uh kind of see myself kind of like what I was talking about, like Dave Sanford or what he did with with his Liquid Mountains, which if you haven't seen that, go check out Liquid Mountains by Dave Sanford. Phenomenal. I could see myself doing that. I could see myself putting on like a wetsuit or a dry suit and and going out with a rope attached to me and and uh and 14 life jackets on, but in a in it enough to get those those half half in, half out, or or or being able to get into the water a bit. But I really look forward to seeing what you come out with, man. Um I I am excited to know somebody who's in the underwater world, and and not that you asked for any advice or elicited any advice, but and and I don't even think this is advice, but just know that I care. I give a shit about what you're doing because um I think it's really cool. I think it's really, really cool to see what you're doing. And then even in this, and and I'm sure I mean I'll have you on later on as things progress. And um, but like just to hear your passion and hear your story and dive a little bit deeper into that. Get that. I actually I actually tied I actually titled um I was sitting there thinking about when I was practicing earlier today. I was like, what am I gonna call the episode? And then I was like diving in.

SPEAKER_00: 51:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 51:54

So that's it, folks. We're diving in. Uh John, what's your get actually before we go, give your um give your kind of contacts, like the stuff that you want to give, um, how people where people can find you, um and kind of even uh the next big dive that you're doing, and and we'll kind of end on that note, but let people know where they can find you.

SPEAKER_02: 52:18

Yeah, so you can always follow my Instagram at the divers underscore log. And the next dive is to be determined, but we're looking at a couple things over in Florida.

SPEAKER_03: 52:28

So oh, that sounds cool, man. Yeah, he's on Instagram, and that's how we connected. And uh I love what you're doing, man. Keep posting it up and uh yeah, we'll stay in touch.

SPEAKER_02: 52:39

Hopefully a YouTube channel coming shortly.

SPEAKER_03: 52:41

That's cool. That'll are you gonna do more more of a I know we're this is C the what I tell you, right? Is it gotta go? But I I it's with with like the YouTube aspect, will you just like wear video and then and then cut it and make it, or like will you purposely do movies or films or videos?

SPEAKER_02: 53:02

I'd say a combination of both. Yeah. Some will just be going down, checking out something simple, but then there will be other things I don't want to do where I take a lot of time on it and try to make it more of a cinematic film idea behind it. I uh uh the the history is important to me, but also the underwater world and biology of that is something that is just amazing to me.

SPEAKER_03: 53:23

Yeah. I uh I don't know if you've ever you probably haven't, but there's a gentleman by the name of Sean James. Um he has a YouTube channel, and he built a a cabin in the backwoods up in near like the Algonquin area, and he has a video that he talks in. It's a YouTube channel that he talks in, but then he has a YouTube channel where he does no talking, he just does his his stuff. And I imagine like it sounds crazy, but one day just do a pure video with like nothing but you just diving. I'll be the I'll I'll watch that. I'll be the one single view on that, but like I I've I feel like nobody's doing that. Nobody's doing, and for some reason, people like these videos that there's no talking, it's just people doing woodwork or people building a log cabin, or you know, like going through how long it really takes to assemble all of this equipment. Well, and and that's that's another cool thing to to to look into doing as well. And I'm always here to be the guy to help with that stuff. Uh I'll help video you getting into your gear and and and saying bye-bye as you hit the level of water. But yeah, man, I appreciate it. I'm so stoked uh that we got together. And uh yeah, keep following us. Um follow him on Instagram, the Divers underscore underscore log. And uh check some of his stuff out from uh underwater and obviously you know me, TVS, the viewfinder session, and Omin Nerds Photography. But uh we're gonna head off and have a little bit more of a chit chat and drink some water. But I hope everybody's enjoyed this and uh we'll see where we go from here. Cheers. Cheers.