The Modern Trumpeter Podcast
Our goal is to pass on stories and advice from professional trumpet players to our listeners.
The Modern Trumpeter Podcast
Episode #19, Willie Murillo
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In today's episode we speak with LA trumpeter, Willie Murillo.
Hey everybody, welcome again to the Modern Trumpeter Podcast. Today's guest is Willie Marillo, trumpet player, producer, vocalist, and songwriter from Los Angeles. I first discovered him during his time playing with Gordon Goodwin's Big Fat Band and was fortunate enough to do an online lesson with him many years ago. It was exciting to reconnect and talk about the trumpet and about his career. As one of the leading studio musicians in Los Angeles, he can be heard on countless albums, film soundtracks, and television productions. Murillo has also shared the stage with artists such as Stevie Wonder, Christina Aguilera, Natalie Cole, Maynard Ferguson, Tony Bennett, and many more. He has also performed with Gordon Goodwin's Big Fat Band and the Brian Setzer Orchestra. And as a reminder, we are writing a book called The Modern Trumpeter: A Guide to Building a Versatile and Successful Career. Releasing in late 2026, this book aims to provide trumpet players with insights and stories from professional trumpet players on how to make a career as a trumpet player. Topics range from Broadway and Pit work, wedding ceremonies, military bands, cruise ships, and much, much more. Follow us on Instagram and YouTube for updates of when the book will be published. And if you enjoyed today's episode of the podcast, please share it with a trumpet player that you know. Comment what your favorite moments and insights from the episode were. And thank you all for listening. Now let's get to my interview with Willy Murillo. Hey everybody, welcome back again to the Modern Trumpeter Podcast. Today we're speaking with the one and only Willie Millo. Willie, thanks for joining joining us today. I didn't know we were going to get a dance show too. This is great.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for having me, man. This is really fun. I'm happy that you're doing this.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. I appreciate it. So to start out, I always like to ask uh, you know, how you first got started uh on Trumpet and kind of the moment you were like, yeah, I wanna I want to do Trumpet for a living.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the first thing that I'll tell you is uh is uh that everything that I do is from the perspective of my Christian life. So I'm a Christian and and I claim Jesus Christ and and that's how I live. So you know, when you say like, how did you get started? I fully believe in like divine appointment. Like, this is what I was meant to do. There's this idea that we choose our vocation, and I don't necessarily think that's true. I kind of feel like it chooses us and and it's something we do. So I remember when I was like 14, the new Indiana Jones came out. And I remember like watching that, and I can even remember watching Indiana Jones. I think Indiana Jones came out when I was like eight or nine or ten, something like that. And I remember watching it when I was a kid, and even though my dad was a trumpet player, I I didn't know anything about the trumpet or music, or like I just used to sing in the back of the car when I was a kid, and I was like, we were always around music. My dad was a band director, but I kind of knew this is there was just some kind of gravitational pull to music, and I remember hearing that sound like dum-dum dum dun. And of course it's Malcolm McNabb, you know, the the one and only. Yeah. Hearing that, going, that's what like I want that. Yeah. And then like hearing Earth Wind in Fire and all the Jerry Hayes stuff, even knowing that kind of stuff, I was like, this is what I want to do. I just felt it. So it's it's an interesting thing, you know. I when I I've been around music my whole life. When I was a kid, I sung in choirs in church, and and my dad was a trumpet player, so we had like a church orchestra, so I'd go there. He was in the army band, so I'd go with him. It was just around it, you know. They always talk about people talk about nature versus nurture. And so I was around music my whole life, and so I just wanted to do music. I knew it was gonna be a great thing, and and then it just went, man. And then when I was in high school, my freshman year, that was it, man. I I actually I'll tell you a fun story.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00When I was in eighth grade, uh, I'm in junior high, and this friend of mine says, uh, he goes, hey, he goes, let's ditch school and and ride skateboards all day. And I had never ditched, like I was a good kid, I never even thought. I was like, all right, let's do it. So I pretend I'm sick, of course, and you know, like most kids, you know, they can pull it off pretty good. So I'm home all day. The kid never shows up, and I was like, you red bastard, you know, I was all bummed out. So and I couldn't like go out because people would see me, and my school was like literally like four doors down. So I didn't like leave the house. And so everything, and we didn't have TV when I was a kid. So I'm like walking around the house, like, what am I gonna do? This is the worst decision I've ever made. Now I'm bored to tears. And I see my trumpet. You know, I'm like in like eighth grade band or seventh grade band, whatever. I think it was seventh. And I open it up and I'm like, so pick it up, and I'm like messing around with it, and I go, and I just make like this little tiny little squishy ombouchure, and I squeak out a high G. And I was like, huh. And then I leave and I go do something. I'm playing with my toys or in the backyard or something. And something kept calling me. So I kept coming, it was on my bed, I can totally picture it right now. And I kept walking back into my room. That was it. That was it, man. I was like, and I don't know what it is about, and I don't think it was a sound or high notes or I think it was just all of them. So that's how my began, man, my ditching school.
SPEAKER_01Well, thanks to your friend for nothing. I know, right?
SPEAKER_00I know, funny, right?
SPEAKER_01That's awesome. And then, so then, of course, going through high school, uh, where'd you go to college after that?
SPEAKER_00I grew up in California, uh, in a city called Whittier, which is kind of like east of East Los Angeles area, and uh grew up there, and we were on the come-up of like a really good high school, like it was starting to the band was good. We had this extraordinarily talented pianist who was my girlfriend, actually. Unfortunately, she she uh she decided that life was not worth living later on, but she was easily the most talented person I've ever met. So here I am in this come-up, and my dad was not only the band director at first, but then he was the ASB director or vice principal, and so I was really connected and I did sports. So now I'm getting into high school youth, and I'm like, ooh, this is fun to be somebody in life. And the self-esteem bug zapped me, and I was like, this is fun, I want to get good grades. It really inspired me to do a lot of things, be very social. I played football, I wrestled, I ran track, I did lots of stuff, and it was just kind of a catalyst for a lot of things. So high school was an incredible thing, and I was a pretty decent student. Like I graduated with like a 3-6, of course, nowadays, you know, my kids graduated with like a four-six, yeah, you know, and they're like, an idiot! Like, what are you talking about? Like, I'd be failed out of school if I, you know. And so for me, that was totally enough. I got all kinds of scholarships to college. So I go to c I uh I go to Cal State Florida, which is where it's state school in California. So I go to state school in California, and I'm telling you, man, from day one, I just knew I was like, there's no way I'm ever gonna graduate. Not because I couldn't do it, not because I didn't have the capacity or the capability to do it. But I was just like, I just felt it. I'm like, there's something else that's gonna happen. This is not exactly it for me. So sure enough, within three semesters, I end up dropping out. I ended up getting a Broadway show called Fame. And for those that are watching this that are like, you know, born in the 80s, 90s, you know, 70s, late 70s, you remember Fame. It was a famous TV show series, and then they made a Broadway show out of it. It's about a high school performing arts, and it paid like $2,900 a week when I was 19. Jeez. So I was like, yeah, let's do it. And I was all excited, you know. And the funny story about that that I'll tell you is that I'm I'm ditching school again from college, and I'm just like, I I never went to school. Like, I was like, I'm gonna stay home practice all day every day. And when I tell you that I was a practicer in high school and in college, I mean like in the summers on Saturdays and Sundays, I was like 12 hours a day, 10 hours a day. And so I'm home my sophomore year of college, ditching school, of course. And I'm playing, I'm practicing tons. I get a phone call, and it was this lady said, Hey, we we got your number from Wayne Bergeron. Well, that's all I needed to hear. And I was so excited. I was like, Yeah, what do you need me to do? So it was a high school performing arts show, and they're like, We want you to come audition for the show. And I was like, Okay, and I had never really done an audition except for like the honor groups in high school. Sure, yeah. So I go and they're like, We need you to come down to Debbie Reynolds Studios, it's in Hollywood, and I'm like, I you know, so I go down there, I'm in like shorts and a t-shirt, like a fool, flip-flops, you know. And I walk in and the uh they're like, Can we hear you play? So I go, sure. So I play. Oh, that's great, man. That's really great. And they go, Okay, great. Another producer will be right with you. This guy walks in and he goes, Hey, are you a singer? Like, I heard that you sing. You put on the thing that you sing. And I go, yeah, I sing like I've been singing since I was a kid. So he gets to the piano and I walk over and I'm reading over her shoulder. He goes, Oh, you read? I go, Well, yeah, like I play trumpet, so I know how to read music. He goes, Great. So I sung this thing. He goes, Great, wonderful. Somebody else will be with you in a second. So then the dance captain walks in. Gorgeous, like 20-something, and she's like, Okay, here, come out here. I'm like, what's going on? You know, like I I'm so green and young and dumb, I don't have any idea what's going on. So she's like, okay, do this, blah, blah, blah. Then the god next goes, somebody will be right with you. She goes, that's fine, that's workable. So the next guy walks in, he goes, read these lines. And I'm like, what is what am I what is this? What am I? And so it turns out that there is a guy called Lars. Lars is this Greek god, he's like, you know, 6'2, looks like an Abercrombie model, he's beautiful, ripped, you know, got talented actor guy. Well, so when they got the call, they called me, and I'm thinking it's like for the pit orchestra.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's the only thing I know. I'm like, you get called for a show, and I had done shows at like community theater every summer. So I'm like, oh, I guess I'm doing a show. You know, I'm like, hey, Bertrand got me for a show. This is a I must be really good. Well, so this guy Lars writes on his resume that he played saxophone. So some of the producers were like, there's a trumpet thing in the show, saxophone, it's the same thing, it'll be fine. So the whole, like, the main theme of the show is called fame. And it's called the Hot Lunch Jam. And it's like this seven-minute sequence that revolves around the trumpet player character. His name is Goody in the show. So it's eight days before opening, Lars pulls out his saxophone, thinks he's gonna dust it off and be fine. And it's it's like a real thing that you've got to be able to play. It's like a high note Latin thing for like two minutes, and then you take a break, you do a dance sequence, and then you come back and do a thing. It's a whole thing. Wow. So Lars, this guy couldn't do it. So they fire him. They go, We gotta find somebody that can play trumpet. This is you know what it's supposed to be. So what do they do? They call the union and they say, Hey, we need a great trumpet player. But they didn't tell him what it was for. So what do they do? They give him Wayne Bergeron's phone number. So they call Wayne Bergeron, they go, Hey, we heard you're like a great trumpet player. And he gets, they go, Well, what's the gig? And he they said, Oh, it's his high. He goes, No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I think that's not me. I'm like 40 years old, you know, whatever, only 35 years old, or however old Wayne was at the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they go, No, no, you need like a young guy that looks like he's in high school that can really play. He goes, Call this guy Willie. He'll be great, it'll be fine, he'll set you up. Plus, he's Hispanic, and it takes place in New York, which is there was like a lot of is like Puerto Ricans and the school of the arts, and you know, this guy goes, he'll be great for this. So they call me, they don't tell me what it is. So I go to audition, all this happens. Hey, let me hear you play and let me hear you sing, read these lines, dance. And I'm like, what is going on? So they go, listen, we got a couple of days, we got seven days till opening. Like we're moving into the theater tomorrow. We need somebody. They told me the story, and I was like, geez. And I'm thinking, I'm smart enough at least to understand, like, this is gonna be a thing. I can't get out, like, I can't bail on this once I get in.
SPEAKER_01And it's a four-month, you said?
SPEAKER_00So this is in February of my sophomore year of college. So I'm like, basically it essentially I'm quitting school, like to do this show. So I'm like, okay, what do I do here? Now, the summer after this show, I'm going straight into the call all-American college band. So I'm like, uh like, okay, fine, like, I'll do it. So they go, I said, can I have a couple days to think about it? And they were like, nah, gotta know now. I go, okay, let's do it. $2,900 a week. I was like, let's go. I was one of the main characters. I don't know anything about equity shows and that it's union. So all I know is that I'm playing the trumpet. Yeah. So into this thing, and this is where I meet Ray Brown, the trumpet player who's playing Earth, Wind, and Fire. He's in the pit. This is where I meet Charlie Morillis. This is where I meet uh Brian Miller, who is still one of the biggest contractors in Los Angeles, Hollywood Bowl Orchestra, Pantagesous Theater, all things, all things live performance.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I was 19, and this is where I started my and once I did that show, man, that was it. I was sold. I had no idea what I was in for. And I think that was probably good. You know, it's like you talk to a Navy SEAL and you go, hey, one of these days you're gonna have to like hang by your fingernails for three days in the jungle, but nobody's gonna sign up for that. So with like the musical thing, you go, Yeah, okay, that yeah, let's do it. But it was in my heart, it was like written on my heart since the beginning of time. I was like, I want to do this. Yeah, and then it just went from there. So that's how like how I got in. Crazy story, right?
SPEAKER_01Oh, that is crazy. So gigs to get wow.
SPEAKER_00I know, silly. So you have a child, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Tell me. Yeah, so she's uh just about nine months now, almost approaching ten. I need to see a picture.
SPEAKER_00I gotta see a picture. Let's see. Because I'm a dad of five, so I love the trumpet, and I love it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, she's hilarious. She loves uh let's see where's a good one. She's getting into this nose scrunchie face, face all the time. She loves me singing to her, and uh, sometimes I'll play the trumpet, and she's just like, you know, so it's so much fun.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so you're a trumpet player, you're a great trumpet, and you have a child. If you knew the perils and the the difficulties of doing this, and you're like, the whole world weighs on my shoulders, I gotta provide for this family. Would you have chosen to do that? I don't know. It's you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah. So I think it's it's funny. I think it's like some of the guys in the older generation, like I was really, really good friends with my good dear friend, God rest his soul, Gary Grant.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And Gary was so sweet to me. I went over his house all the time. In fact, right by my feet right now, I'm kicking his subwoofer. We were talking about mixing, he taught me how to mix horns and do all kinds of stuff. And he goes, Okay, on your subwoofer, you want to make sure, and I go, I don't I don't mix with a sub. And he goes, Willie. He literally gets down on the ground, he's under there for like two minutes, he's unplugging stuff, and he drags out, he goes, Take this home, you gotta mix with a sub. And I was like, All right, you know, and I think like some of the older generation guys like that, and I don't mean to sound the way that it sounds with all the the older guys, like work is terrible since the 80s and the synthesizers. I don't believe any of that. I don't believe at all.
SPEAKER_02Sure.
SPEAKER_00Because it's the same for us. COVID in the 90s, there was like alternative bands, like everything changed in the 90s with music.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Gary was always one of these really optimistic guys who just like, no, I'm just I'm a I'm a bad A, you know, trumpet player, and I'm a lovely guy. So, like, of course it's gonna be. That was one of those things I got from Gary that I I was like, yeah. And so like that generation kind of thought that way. And that was like one of the most beautiful things I think we all I'm 51. And so I, you know, the guys that are like 65, 70, 80, you know, like that general, Malcolm McNabb, all the like the people that I studied from, like Gary and the generation of Jerry and Chuck Finley and all those guys, they just kind of like I don't think it was just because they had and it was a different time, but that's also true.
SPEAKER_02Sure.
SPEAKER_00But I think but I think it was like just something about it with there was like a a societal optimism about it, and that's what I've chosen to do in in my life. It's just kind of and I gotta tell you, like, I've never ever not been busy, and I'm 51, and I started at 18. I started at 16, and it's not because I'm so great, you know, or anything like that. It's just that's just kind of how it worked for me. Um you know what I mean, and so yeah, I started at 16, and then that thing had that show happen, and then I went to the All-American College, man, met all kinds of people, and that was it, man. I've been working ever since.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's and that's I mean, that's how it that's how it goes. It's so the part of the fun for me of interviewing you know, all these people hearing how they got things started and and and going. It's and it but the cool thing is like it's all so different. There's no one way, there's no set path.
SPEAKER_00There's people who like I just I disagree. Let me let me tell you where I disagree.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But there is a through line. There is a through line, and there's three through lines hard work, consistency, and love. Those are the three through lines. And I love like Kobe Bryant used to talk about that a lot. And I love hearing Kobe talk, his talk. There's a great story about Kobe Bryant where he goes to some basketball camp, and the guy who's in charge of the basketball camp says, Hey man, while you're here, I'd love to see your routine. So, can I watch, you know, your practice routine? Because Kobe also brought his personal coach to work out with for that week. So he goes, Yeah, man, 3 30 tomorrow a.m. So he goes, okay. So the guy thinks he's gonna show him up, so he shows up at 2 30, an hour early, and Kobe's already been there an hour. He went to sleep at like 6 p.m. and then he goes all in through the night, and you know, this, nothing, the other. So they go to breakfast afterwards, and the guy admittedly says, like, I'm such a fool, I can't believe I said this to Kobe Bryant. He said, Kobe, man, I looked at your routine and you know it's amazing. He goes, Nothing you did impressed me. He said everything was like normal kind of stuff that I teach my basketball kids high school, college, early college, basics in the junior high. And he goes, Of course, man. He goes, Why do you think I'm the greatest baller on the planet? He goes, Because I have fallen in love with the basics. And so that like consists, like John Lewis, who's one of my favorite tournament players on the planet, this guy, who's a lovely guy, he does a two-hour buzzing, you know, and you go, There's a reason Malcolm McNabb is Malcolm McNabb. He stayed with the basics. You go to hear one of Malcolm's masterclasses, and I gotta say, I went to one of his masterclasses, and foolishly, when I was like 20, I heard this masterclass, I was like, Malcolm, and I was bored. Because all he's talking about was the mouthpiece and this and that, and I go, and then later on I realized, oh my gosh, this is the secret to it, is like consistency, like Kobe Bryant, fall in love with the basics. Yeah, and in Malcolm's own way, he loves playing the trumpet. In Wayne's own way, he loves like Wayne loves the trumpet. He's like a kid, he's kind of goofy and fun. And Wayne has been one of my closest friends for a lot of years, and he, you know, just the things that he would share about, and you could just tell he's just exuberant with like love for music and the trumpet. I think anybody that's that great. Gary Grant, you know, before he died, man, I went to his house a bunch and we would practice together and play together, be like, oh, let's do this thing, and it just like Arbin's things or Clark things. So the basics, you know, like hard work and in the basics, and like an exuberance of love and then consistency. Yeah. You get anybody to do that and walk through life that way. In my master classes, one of the things I always talk, I always say is the hardest thing about what we do is to keep doing it. Yeah, I think that's the hardest thing to do. Because you're like, oh, I'm gaining some traction. My high range is good, my tongue ease, my sound, ooh, my sound's really doing the thing. My piccolo trump. Listen how good I sound on piccolo this month. Really working on this because I gotta record it. But E flat trumpet, whatever it is. You gain some traction, then all of a sudden your kid, God forbid, you know, gets a broken arm, like my daughter did. Or it's a worse cancer, or your mother-in-law falls, and now you have to move her in with you, and your wife is counting on you, and now you go, okay, this is what God gave me. This is what's happening in my life, these are the circumstances. Can I push through? Because that cancer, that broken leg, that bankruptcy, that divorce, that's still gonna be there tomorrow. But when the smoke clears for those things, am I gonna be a person who stayed with my goals, my dreams, my passion, and fostered them? And then a lot of people do that to the detriment of their family, you know. It's definitely not a nine to five, as you know. You're a great trumpet player, you work all the time. I'm sure you do pophorn bands in your home at 2 a.m., like we all did. Yep. And so, yeah, so there's a lot of difficult things, and I think that those are the through lines. Yes, some people go to college, come to LA, go to New York, go to London. They grew up in the whatever, and they and it's textbook, and they get an audition and they make it into the LA Philharmonic, and then that's their life. Great, good for you. I think that's awesome. But for most people, it won't be that. Yeah. So I think it's about tenacity. How hard can you push through? How bad do you want? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think so. Yeah, that's it. Like I think I I agree a hundred percent with you, like those through lines. I don't think I'd ever consider it in in that way, but I definitely b uh agree with that.
SPEAKER_00And there's some luck along the way, you know, a little bit of luck. Here's a great story about luck. This is fine. Yeah. So this one day we're recording Arturo Sandoval's record called Dear Diz. Dear Dizzy, and it's great. It's the one. If you've ever seen the uh on YouTube, this the Soli of things to come. It's Arturo, me, Wayne, Gary Grant, Dan Fernero. There's five of them. And it's really hard, like this really like incredibly hard Soli. So we're recording that, you know, record. It's called Dear Diz. And Wayne plays something so outrageously good, you know. And the day before that happened, I wasn't on the session, but I think Gary and Wayne, and maybe Harry Kim were on the session for the Super Bowl of Beyoncé. And at the end of the the uh Randy Waldman arrangement of the Star Spangled Banner, and you know, it's it's beautiful fanfare, and she goes, and the brave. And underneath when she sings the brave, and the whole orchestra comes out, Wayne goes, and he plays this high A, and it is like it's so magical and beautiful. It's not just like a great hi-A, like, oh we're the muscle height. No, it's like the overtones and the beauty of it, and like it's it's magical. You can hear it on the recording, it's unreal. Beyonce, Star Sprangle Banner, but it's the record version, not the live version. Okay. Yeah, you can check it out later. But but check this out. So, so the day before we did Dear Diz was that thing. And Wayne does something great, and Gary slams that is her. He goes, God, he does, man. He goes, How you get so lucky on the track. And of course, this was Gary's style to be loud and crazy. And funny, obnoxious, and just just to be like, and he was always at the the peril of getting disrespect for him, but always at the aid of lifting somebody else up. That's what he did. He was just funny to me. He goes, You get so lucky every time, Wayne. He goes, You got lucky 22 times yesterday, or whatever the number. It was like 20-something times. And then, of course, the whole reason he did that was to tell everybody, you guys should have heard what Wayne did yesterday. Like that's how he was. He was just like a giver and a loving guy, and you know, all those kinds of things. And so he goes, You get lucky, you always get so lucky on the trunk. He goes, Yesterday you got lucky 26 times, or whatever the number. Yeah. It was just a great moment. Not only just a funny moment, and it was like tense in the room because the music was really hard. And but that was Gary's way of just like loving up.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And uh and uh I got I would say this thing to Wayne, and I actually got it from Gary. So I played something, a solo, where it was just me and Gary on this one date, and it was an a cappella like horns thing. And I played this like bebop thing, and he looked at me and he goes, Well, you don't have to be such a dick about it. I just I didn't know what to say. And he's like, and then he would turn to everybody, he's like, Do you hear what a dick this guy is? Did you hear that solo? How he played that you know, and that was his way of like honoring you and being funny. It's just funny, you know. So I'd love I would watch and so I would say that to like I would say that to anybody. I sub a lot in Pacific Symphony, which is our big symphony here in Orange County, and Barry Perkins, who is like, if you haven't interviewed Barry, you need to get to Barry. He's playing on a million motion pictures. He's one of our guys, and he's a really close friend of mine, he's a great guy. And every time Barry plays something, like if I'm playing assistant to him and I'm sitting next to him, and I'll like turn to him and I'll just look at him, I'll give him the side eye, you know, I'll be like, you don't have to be such a dick about it. Like, it's just fun. Like, that's the those are the beauty moments of this of this thing. You know, like if somebody turns like the greatest compliment you could get is you do something great, and somebody turns to you and they're like, you know, like because you know that they're just it's silliness, and and that's I think, you know, we run on a lot of that kind of thing. We run on the adrenaline of those compliments, and you go, Man, I'm getting lucky, but am I? Luck has nothing to do. I mean, you know, there's a reason why people wanted to be around Gary. A, he's a great player, he's a fun guy. He might be loud and this and that and the other. There's a reason why people want to be around Wayne.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00The greatest lead trumpa player of all time, hands down, no questions asked, inarguable. And he's a fun guy. Wayne's a loving guy. He also has a very like tolerable spirit, like, in a lot of ways, much more tolerable than me. You know, like like if if I was leading a horn section, be like, come on, guys, this, no, don't, don't, don't. But he's he he's like a unique character, and you realize, oh, the greats are great for a reason. There's no luck involved, you know. So I know I'm kind of contra, you know, contradicting myself. Sometimes there's luck involved, sometimes there's not. But anyway, we're just rambling about nonsense, but you know, just kind of fun.
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, it's it's like, I mean, that's so important. I think that's like something that a lot of young players don't fully get or f fully understand, you know. And just part of it's like you have to go through things and have experiences to learn that. But like like part of what I'm trying to do is be like, hey, like, this is what like your idols are saying, this is what people like are saying, like, you gotta like think about it. And of course they'll experience it for themselves and whatnot. But that's again, that's just the whole idea is like trying to give everybody the the real life perspective of you know, playing, but also like of just being a person.
SPEAKER_00Let's talk about something about being a person and the playing and on and on and on. Let's not digress too much, but there is let's talk about this concept. I think there's a huge factor that we kind of overlook. I think like the the millennials and the Gen Zers, they they kind of think that they can information their way in and out of things.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00Let me get the app and let me get the the the once I have this tool, let me order that book, let me the No. Really what it is is I heard Jerry Seinfeld say, I'm a I'm a Seinfeld fan, and I was watching him on his comedy thing. He was talking about when he saw these kids doing skateboard tricks, he goes, you know who's gonna be okay? The kids that do skateboard tricks. He goes, Do you know how long it takes before you can like do an Ollie and a flip kick? And he goes, those kids have to do that thousands and thousands of times. So I hate to say it, actually, I don't hate to say it. For anybody that's listening out there, if you have never just gone for like hours, minutes, tens of minutes for weeks and months and months at a time, if you can't do that, then why would you expect to be playing in an echelon of player that can do that? You don't belong. And it's not that we're gatekeepers or I'm a gatekeeper or Rob Shear's a gatekeeper or Wayne Bergeron's a gatekeeper or Barry Perkins, Chuck Finley. Nobody's a gatekeeper. All those guys are there, including myself, because they can do a certain thing. If I can't do a certain thing, the world will tell me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I won't get invited to that party. That's just the way it is, right? I'm a mixer, I'm a writer. You know, I've written for lots of TV shows and lots of things. And when I hear somebody write like a symphony thing, I go, there's this there's no question why that guy, why that gal got this account. They're amazing. Listen, that's unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah. You know? And if you can't do that, you're not gonna get asked to do it. Yeah. Sure, there's some politics and all that kind of stuff. People have to want to be around you, which we've all struggled with. We all have interesting personalities, even the greatest guys in the world. There's, let's be real honest, there's guys that don't want to be around Wayne. Not because he's not a good guy, but just because literal humanness. I think this, he thinks that. This person is this kind of. If you get into basic psychology, you go, not everyone's for you. I my energy is not for everybody. There's people that will tell you that Willie Mario is the devil, and then there's people that'll be like, oh, that guy's the greatest, he's the sweetest guy ever. I I get that. And I've I've stopped trying to control that, and and I've stopped being nervous when I go, oh, I think that there's a guy in Utah that thinks I'm the devil. I think there's a guy in Europe that hates me, or there's a, you know, there's these 18 people in Los Angeles that hate me. Like, none of that. None of it's true, none of it's real, everybody loves everybody. It's all basic psychology. Everybody wants everyone to do good, but not too good. It shines a light on your life, all these things. So if you're lazy and you don't shine the light on your life and you don't look at your habits, right? There's a reason why most CEOs are thin and in shape because they're disciplined people. You know, you see these women at the gym and they're like boss babes and whatever that term is, you know, all that kind of stuff. And you go, yeah, there's a re like that that's the life you want. They're on the treadmill at 5 a.m., they're reading books, and I go, Yeah, that's amazing. There's a reason. We homeschool my little two kids. I have uh five children. My younger two are homeschooled. There's a reason why my kids are leaders. They grew up with me. I'm a leader type, you know. Yeah, uh, I'm driven. Anything that they did, you're gonna play basketball? Great, it's an hour a day. You know, the homeschool ones too. Same thing. Like, there's my wife is the most amazing mother you could possibly imagine. Every meal is grass-fed, everything that my kids are like my son is nine, he's ripped. Like he looks like a little, like he's ripped. Yeah, you know, he reads, like, there's a reason. So you get a guy like John Lewis or Malcolm McNabb or Rob Shear, who's if you haven't interviewed Rob, like Rob's amazing. You get these guys and they spent immense time on their sound, their discipline, their tonguing, their whatever. You go, yeah, that's great. You get somebody like Gary Grant, who was a pretty developed, like sweetheart of a guy. Well, that's because that's important to him. Yeah, you get somebody like person X, who is amazing sound or technique, but they're maybe their personhood is underdeveloped. Well, that's because they haven't worked on their personhood.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's it. You know, I'm a developed writer because I love writing and I worked on it. I wanted to be great at that. It's not arrogant to say I'm really good at this because I'm not really good at these things. I'm 30 pounds overweight. I don't want to be 30 pounds overweight, but I haven't worked on it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so for all the people watching this, it's like anything else. Being a CEO, being a student, you're lost. If your goal is to get the such and such award at Harvard Law and that's important to you, and you're gonna work on it, chances are you'll achieve that. So there's no like, oh, Willie's a gatekeeper, or Dan Frenero's a gatekeeper, or there's none of that exists. If you're and I'll tell you one of the most important conversations that ever changed my life. I was having breakfast in Japan one time with Andy Martin. We were out on a fat man tour. And then Andy Martin and I are just having, you know, and we were kind of talking about this stuff. I wasn't complaining. He wasn't, we're just talking about the state of Los Angeles. You know what he said to me? He said, maybe one of the most revealing things that I've shared with students my whole life. He said, LA is actually a very fair system. He said, think about it, Willie. He's like, you're there on movie calls and you know, this and these sessions that we do all the time. He goes, Is there anybody that's there that shouldn't be there? He goes, think about it. Like there's nobody in the trombone section that doesn't belong there. There might be other people that that could also be there that didn't get chosen, but that doesn't, there's nobody there that should like there's nobody there that absolutely can't play.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00You know what I'm saying? Like, that doesn't exist. There's nobody there that is the biggest a-hole in the world and can't hold a conversation and they're weird and you know. That doesn't exist. Yeah. Everybody that's there can play. You might think that you're better than somebody and that you should be there, but that's just our human fallibility. So Los Angeles is actually a very fair system. Like, you can play and you're a good guy and you're easy to be around, you'll be there. People that aren't there, you know, and I've watched, man, a million guys come through. Lead trumpet from North Texas, new lead trumpet from this, lead trumpet, you know, since I was 19, like so-and-so came to town. A lot of those guys get chased out of town. Because they think, like, oh, I'm gonna walk in and I remember Andy kind of talking about that to me, like, no, no, no, man, like you stay, you and Andy is an incredible human. He's like the the the he's like the the picture of like keep your mouth shut, just play incredibly well, you know. Yeah. Like he's just great at that. And you go, great, that's what you have to do, you know?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, I mean, there's no secret to it. It's like, what's the secret to becoming a great lawyer? It's the same thing. What's the secret to becoming Kobe Bryant? It's the same thing. How do you become Wayne Virgin? You can't become Wayne Virginia because there's only one. Yeah, but you can be great. You can be the greatest Willie Marillo or the greatest Jaden or the greatest Steve or the greatest Tom or the greatest Sally or the greatest Marsha, but you can't become Michael Jordan. There's only one. You know, Wayne is the GOAT, John Lewis, goat status. You know, Malcolm GOAT status, Chuck Finley in his own way, but Chuck Finley doesn't have what Wayne has.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And Wayne doesn't have what John Lewis has. And John Lewis will never have what this guy has, and that guy will never have, you know. And so I think there's an acceptance, sort of an analchemy of like how we come to these conclusions. And sometimes some of the LA musicians never come, you know, some of these guys that are 65, 70 years old, they still act like 16-year-old girls. Who likes me, who doesn't like me, and but did I say the right thing? Why does it matter? Yeah, you know, so some of the younger generation have that dialed in. And us, 50, 45, and on up, we don't have that dialed in.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because that's the new world. But some of the young cats are like, they text and they they're very impersonal. They don't have any of that dialed in, and we have that dial. Everybody can learn from everything.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I think that that's super true. I like yeah, I love what everything you're saying. This is all great. It's like the the things that you can't necessarily get in music school. Like that's not going to be taught in a classroom. 100%. Can you give us a brief overview? I know we only got uh a little bit more time, but a brief overview of like some of the opportunities you've had. You know, I think you of course you've been uh with Gordon Goodwin and you know, rest rest in peace. Uh through some um uh I think Brian Setzer Worship as well. And can you talk about like some of those opportunities, how you got those?
SPEAKER_00I can't remember who said it, but I think a friend of mine, Ray Herman, who used to be a Los Angeles uh saxophone player, said this. And he now plays with the band Chicago. And he said, Los Angeles is interesting in that your competition is also your referrals.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I never forgot this. I remember this one thing that stuck out in my head. This one day I got a flat tire coming off the freeway, and it was a a BMW uh X5. And on that car, the the tires are different sizes on the front and the back. So it was like, man, I gotta find a place like right now, but it can't be like this little, like any kind of cheapy shop. Like, I gotta find a place that has both of these things, right? So I'm driving and I can walk, I go, hey, do you guys have you know these tires? And the guy's looking and he's looking on the computer. Nope, I don't. I go, do you know anybody that does? Without a blink of an eye, he goes, Nope. I go, oh my gosh. And I'm I gotta tell you, that was kind of a profound moment in my life. I was like 25 or something, and I remember thinking, oh, this guy is not like in other businesses, nobody's gonna help you. Yeah. Everybody's competition. Our industry is totally different.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it is, right?
SPEAKER_00So I've had situations where I've worked for composers for whatever reason, maybe they hurt me with Brian Setzer or something like that. I remember the one time I worked for this guy who I'll keep anonymous, great guy, just this great composer, and for Disney, just a ton of stuff for Disney. And I don't think he knew who Wayne Bergeron was. So he called me and he goes, Hey, do you want to get another trumpet player for this session? It's for like a parade. I go, sure. Yeah. So I called Wayne, I go, hey, do you want to do this thing with me? He goes, sure. Yeah, no. And so through the conversation before the day came, I go, yeah, so Wayne's gonna play first. And then he goes, No, no, no, I want you to play first. I go, no. I go, you don't get like our world. When Wayne's there, he plays first. You know, like that's how it goes. And he's the best guy for the job. Not only that, he's the best guy for the job, right? He was like, No, no, no, I love the way you play. I'm in, I'm like, you don't get it. You're gonna put me in this interesting. And then I told Wayne about like, hey, I I don't really know how to do this. I'm young still, and I this guy asked, he goes, he's like, there's nothing to know. He goes, We go to the session, you play first. And I was like, wow, and that taught me a lot. Like, Wayne understands all of that stuff, and he's been really good to a lot of young guys that have come up. There haven't been a ton of young guys that have come up because you have to be good and political and you know, all that kind of stuff. But yeah, man, I've been done records and things like with him, and he'll go, hey, make sure you know that Willie's playing the solo on the like he's he's always like reaching out and doing so a lot of those opportunities that I've had have come from my competition, so to speak. I don't think of it as competition, you just think of it as a community. But in reality, your competition is your referral, they're your colleagues. It's a really interesting world that way. So this guy Ray Herman said to me, it's not, you know, we we have that phrase, it's not who, or the traditional phrase is it's it's who you know. Yeah. And I remember Ray said to me one day, he said, It's not about who you know, it's about who knows you. So I got that. I did a rehearsal for a guy called Bill Elliott, who's a great composer. He's now at Berkeley School of Music. He might even be retiring soon or recently retired. Great Disney writer when he was in LA, did lots of stuff, incredible writer. Did this rehearsal, and I'm like sitting there like new guy, and I'm like 23 or something like that, and just scared out of my mind. And I get a phone call like two hours later after that rehearsal, and it's Ray Herman. He goes, Hey man, he goes, uh I I just did a rehearsal with you, and you were, you know, you're the guy, you're the Mexican guy that on the side of the room that you know, yeah. He goes, Hey, uh, I don't know if you know who Brian Setzer is, but I I'm the contractor and I wanted to see, and I was like, Yeah, of course I want to do that gig. But I did it for nine years. I ended up as the musical director. And that did not come from somebody who I knew.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00From somebody who knew me. They knew about and he said to me, He goes, Yeah, I've heard about you, and I hear you're doing great things. And I was like, God, I don't know what he heard, but somehow it was good.
SPEAKER_01And yeah.
SPEAKER_00So something I would, you know, say to young guys, young cats, it's it's who knows you. A lot of those referrals and a lot of those things, the opportunities I've gotten to like summon the LA Phil or play in Pacific Symphony or play in the Hollywood Bull Orchestra or do that session or this thing or play for Michael Giochino or that account or this composer, whatever. Every single one of those things, let me say it like this. Not one of those things came directly from me just being a stone cold killer. No, no. It came from like people that go, no, no, we trust this person in this position. Yeah. Sally's the one you want. She's gonna keep you organized, and you go, Great, I trust Sally, great. You know, Willie's Willie's the one you want. You know, because I trust him to to you know, play second trumpet on this. And if you need him to play some jazz or some lead or some piccolo trumpet, he'll be okay. Everything comes from everybody else. Yeah. And so you you would be remiss to not recognize the goodness of people around you. Now, are there cold hard things where people keep you out? Of course. That's human nature, that's just the way it is. Yeah. And some of it, I guess you could categorize loosely as like legitimate, and some of it you go like, no man, that's BS. That doesn't think it doesn't matter. I don't like Jaden, so I'm not gonna hire Jaden. Does that make me a terrible person? I don't know. It's an interesting thing. If there's sinister things or if it's because of a lack of character, like I'm immature and I I cannot grow a good beard, and I'm so pissed that Jaden can grow a good beard. So F that guy, I'm not gonna hire, you know, like there's certain like you know what I mean. Like, I guess you can kind of look at it a hundred different ways, but the bottom line is where I come come back to with my faith, where I circle around, is nobody can ever take my work. Not because I'm so good. No, no, no. Because as a Christian believer, I believe that this is what God has for me. This is my life. Doesn't mean that I can't do something that Wayne could do or something that John Lewis could do. No, I have abilities like those guys, and they have abilities like mine, and theirs far surpass mine in certain areas, and mine surpass theirs in certain areas, or mine are just a little like it just everyone's got their own brand of genius and good.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But if that's not for you, if that's not what God has for you, it's not gonna come in your path. There's this concept that we call uh cooperate, never chase. And I think because I've always been a climber, I could be accused very easily of chasing, being overly aggressive. Ah, I want that, and I want to try this thing, and I want to learn how to do that, and I want to be in that cra crowd, and that we there's a lot of guys that do that. I'm not the only one guilty of that. I might be the only one willing on a podcast to admit that I've done that. Because everyone makes mistakes. You're you're 22 at a certain point, you're 31. You're starting, you get starting getting money, you started to get a little fame. You're like, oh man, I'm doing I'm really doing this. How exciting is this? I'm just some kid from South, some from East LA. And now I'm growing up and I'm doing these things. I and I played on the Hollywood Bowl and I I wrote a chart and listen, it's on the radio. Now, how fun is that? Everyone does that. That is in that world. Yeah. Some people are m you know manage to keep their wits about them, and they don't step in crap, and you know, and some people do. I've stepped in crap plenty of times and gotten in trouble and called on it. And I've also um one of my favorite things, I think Wayne said this, is like we're like the the CIA, right? Our our failures are public and our successes are private.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like nobody knows how many sessions. I mean, I've done a gazillion sessions with Wayne, and man, the things that he's done on these dates, and then you miss one note, and everyone's like, oh, that's there's a famous joke, right? To to to illustrate this. This is funny. Guy walks, meets, sees another guy, hasn't seen him forever. Man, how are you doing? I'm doing great. A lot of great things happening in my life. Guy goes, well, tell me. He goes, Oh, I was on the Grammys last week, you know. Oh, I didn't hear about that. That's cool. Good for you, man. I didn't hear about it. Yeah, I also did the Academy Awards. Oh, I didn't hear about that. Good for you. That's that's so great. He goes, Yeah, and I recorded the singing beautiful solo. It's gonna be on the next John Williams movie. Oh, I didn't even hear that. And he goes, Yeah, has the chops and I think, you know, I'm kind of struggling a little bit. You know, a couple weeks ago, I was in Bakersfield, which is like a little tiny, tiny potent town in California, right? Yeah. The Radisson Inn in the lobby of the Bakersfield at two in the morning doing uh doing a big band gig, and I kind of cracked this high F. And he goes, Yeah, I heard about that. I love that joke because it's so true. You know, and it's just like that's kind of the way our world works. That's just the way our world works.
SPEAKER_01It's uh so uh is there anything you know now that you wish you knew when you were just starting out?
SPEAKER_00Yes, everything. Everything I know now, I wish I knew, you know, but that's the beauty of like life and the mystery of God and how we raise into these beautiful things. Yeah. Yeah, I I I I heard someone say recently, learn to work way harder on your personhood than on your craft. There's this biblical concept in marriage that like your spouse is more important than your children. Because from the the flow of your marriage will come love and discipline and all these things, and it just flows down. But there has to be a hierarchy, right? There has to be a hierarchy. Okay. So I don't know if any people that are parents out there agree, but even like pop psychologists agree that that's true. Like your spouse has to be first, you know, that kind of thing. Sometimes the kids come first, but generally it has to be that way. That's kind of like the way our careers have to be. And like you have to be you first. You have to be disciplined, you have to be kind, you have to be structured. And if you're too eager, that comes out of anxiety. If you're too anxious, that comes out of fear. If you're too fearful, that cut and so on and so forth. And it just piles and piles and piles. So I hired Andy Martin one time to do a master class for this thing at this college I was teaching, and he said, it's really simple. Be cool to work with, be the funnest guy to work with, be easy, right? And be great, be the baddest. That's all it is. Of course, that's kind of like telling somebody, well, just be a nice person and your life will get better. And that's true, right? But we all have traumas from when we're kids, we all have hiccups, we got personality things, we all have agendas. And so if my agenda starts to intersect with your agenda, ooh, who wins right there? And you know, is it is it the dog eat dog world? And I mean, so I think it's the one thing that I would say is. Learn to develop your personhood way more than your craft because your chops can be down two days from now and be the worst you've ever felt. You could get the flu, you could get covet, you could get a broken leg, you could actually you could be trying to you know the family vacation, you're closing the door, boom, somebody hits you in the that happens, okay. But your personality is inherent. That's what people remember, how you make them feel, not what you did on your deathbed. And it's all the things that we talk about. On your deathbed, nobody's gonna be like, I wish I did more sessions. No one's gonna I have had a bout of Bell's palsy twice now. And I did an interview with Wayne about his cancer. We talked about our situations, and by no means, by and by the way, anyone watching this, do I compare Bell's palsy to cancer ever. Okay, I want to, but we were just talking about like this would be a good thing to talk about. Yeah. One of the first things that Wayne said in that interview is he said, we were at the house just sitting in the studio like this and just talking. He said, the great Ryan Anthony from he was first in Cleveland and then he went to Dallas. I actually grew up with Ryan Anthony. We were all friends, and Ryan was just one of these great guys, and he was a Christian too, and so we shared that. I grew up with his grandpa, was like my mentor guy. So Ryan and I were great friends, and so his brother RB would text me all the time, Ryan's not doing good, this and that, and the other. And Ryan would say the same things. I just want to let leave a legacy of my personal people first, people first, people first. And something that Wayne, I think, got out of it, and he shared that with me in that interview, and we can link that interview in this in the thing, is Wayne said, I thought I was gonna be like the great Ryan Anthony. Ryan, there's pictures of Ryan and video of him. He they they did like this big hike up to the top of some summit, snow, backpacking, he takes his little pocket trumpet with him, and he's playing thing like and that's where the cancer blows. Anybody that's out there watching this knows about cancer blows. That's where that comes from. It was an honoring of Ryan, and he's the one that started it. Wayne said, Man, I got my first radiation treatment or chemotherapy, and I'm probably botching the story. But he goes, Man, the last thing I was thinking about was the trumpet. I was so sick, and he's like, I cried a lot, and this and then I remember those times.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So who are you outside of the trumpet? What's your legacy? What's your life? Are you the same person? Are you able to share your life vulnerability? Do you make other people's lives better? And I think sometimes we think about just our lives, and this is the time that we're in. We're 22, 26, 31. Now I got two kids, now we're 35, I got three kids, and oh, I'm doing this, and I want to buy the next house and get to the next thing, and I want to drive a BMW and a Porsche and we're anxious and eager. But none of that stuff matters, you know? You know, I I love the thing I heard. Somebody said, uh, you got a million problems until you have a health problem, and then you have one problem. Yeah. So I caught it, you know, Wayne taught me a lot through that as friends, and we would talk and he would send me these little videos, hey, check it out, my chops are coming back. Look at this, what do you think? So great. And I just think about that. One of the questions I asked him in my interviews, I said, What do you think's different now? And he said, and of course I had to bust his balls because I'm his friend, and we all bust each other's balls, but he goes, I think I'm nicer now. And I said, I disagree. You know, but but that was his thing, is like, I think I'm nicer now. Like there's just a more tolerance to start to love people and see people through grace rather than justice. Like I kept me off like gig, I'm gonna do this and that guy's never gonna work. And you go, why does it matter? You know, so the idea of vulnerability and working on your personhood rather than your craft. I mean, in addition, of course, always in addition. Sure. But but harder, I think, is really the most important thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I love that. That's perfect ending. Thank you. We'll we'll pick it up next time. Yeah, thank you so much. Thanks, Jaden. Thanks. We'll uh we'll talk again soon.