Building Your Own Path: Contracts, Teaching & Asking for Help with Aerialist Dan Saab

In this episode of The Artist Behind the Art, Jennifer sits down with aerialist, performer, and educator Dan Saab to talk about what it really looks like to build a circus career without a rulebook.

Dan shares how he went from studying Theatre in college to working in circus full-time, performing in everything from cabaret and nightlife to large-scale productions and theme park shows — all while traveling as a sought-after workshop instructor.

Together, they unpack how to navigate your path when “I want to be in Cirque du Soleil” isn’t enough of a plan, how to think about which gigs and contracts are actually a good fit, and why understanding the whole production — not just what happens onstage — makes you a stronger collaborator.

They also explore the tension many artists feel between sharing their skills as a teacher and maintaining their own unique style, how to set boundaries without burning bridges, and why asking for advice from more experienced artists is one of the most powerful tools you have.

In this episode, we talk about:

• Dan’s journey from psychology and public health major to Theatre and finally circus
• How a single aerial hoop performance at Edinburgh Fringe helped him reconnect to circus
• Why understanding lighting, rigging, and production makes you a better performer
• The struggle artists face with long-term goals vs. short-term, actionable steps
• How mentorship and guidance can save you years of trial and error
• Balancing teaching and performing — and why style and vocabulary are not the same thing
• Knowing when a contract or location is not a good fit (and learning that only by living it)
• How to think about long-term opportunities vs. the “shiny” short-term gig
• Simple ways to protect your energy, reset your nervous system, and stay grounded on the road
• Why newer artists should ask more questions about rates, contracts, and rigging safety

If you’re building a circus or performing arts career and you’ve ever thought, “I wish someone would just tell me how this works,” this conversation will give you clarity, reassurance, and a lot to think about.

🔗 Stay Connected

• Follow the podcast on Instagram: @theartistbehindtheart
• Follow Jennifer and Arete: @Arete.ActDevelopment
• Learn more about Dan: @dan_saab 

If this episode resonated with you, share it with another artist who needs to hear it — and don’t forget to leave a quick review so more performers can find these conversations.

Mentorship matters — and

Thanks so much for listening to The Artist Behind the Art.
This podcast exists to support performers in building sustainable, aligned, and castable careers — beyond just the skills.

Ready to Unlock What’s Next?

If you know there’s more inside you than you’ve unlocked on your own…
 If your skills are strong, but you’re unsure how to shape them into something undeniable…

You don’t have to figure that out alone.

Inside the Own the Stage Act Creation Mentorship, we bring personalized feedback and clear strategy to your creative process — so every moment of your act is masterful, connected, and intentional. From entrance to bow.

The mentorship begins March 23rd, and the founding members round will be intimate and focused.

If you’re ready to build an act that makes an audience lean in and feel time stand still:

📩 Email: Jennifer@aretementorship.com

📱 DM: @arete.actdevelopment

I’d love to see what we can create together.

🎙 Follow the podcast on Instagram:
 https://www.instagram.com/theartistbehindtheart/

Remember — you already have what it takes.
 The question is: are you ready to prove it to yourself?

Until next time — show up big and own the stage.

Transcript

Jennifer Pierce 0:01

Welcome to the Artist Behind the Art, the podcast that lists the curtain on what it takes to thrive as a professional performer. I'm your host, Jennifer Pierce, artist coach, creative strategist, and lifelong advocate for performers who are ready to go from unsure to unforgettable. This is where the gatekeeping ends and your journey to thriving in the industry begins. Let's dive in. Welcome back to the Artists Behind the Art. Today I'm joined by someone who really lives at the intersection of performer and teacher aerialist and educator Dan Saab. Dan studied theater in college before fully shifting into circus arts, and since then, he's built a diverse career performing in everything from cabaret and nightlife to large scale productions and theme park shows, all while traveling to teach workshops and mentor aspiring artists and working professionals. In this conversation, we'll talk about what it really looks like to build a circus career without a full, clear rule book. How to decide which contracts are actually a good fit for your life and why adaptability and communication matter just as much as skill. We also get into the balancing act of performing and teaching how to share your vocabulary without losing your identity and what to consider before saying yes to a gig and why asking for advice is one of the most underrated professional skills you can have if you're an aspiring or working circus artist. Trying to piece together your path or wondering what's normal to feel, question or ask for this episode is for you. Hey Dan, thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Dan Saab 1:42

Of course. Thank you for having me. Happy to be here.

Jennifer Pierce 1:44

well let's just dive in because you have such an amazing career where you are performing and then also doing amazing things in the teaching space, and I think that is something that's really hard to balance. And I just can't wait for everybody to hear your story.

Dan Saab 2:04

Excited. Thank you, by the way.

Jennifer Pierce 2:06

You got it. Alright, well let's kind of start at the beginning because there are so many pathways. To have a career in circus arts. Yes. And let's talk about your journey from bachelor degree in theater studies to in college before shifting to a career in the circus arts.

Dan Saab 2:25

Yeah. I, so I went into college, uh, as a psych major. Like I kind of went in having no idea. What I was gonna do. 'cause you know, like you're in high school and you're like a baby still. So you go into college and they're kind of like, Hey, pick what you wanna do for the rest of your life. And you're like, okay, I don't even know how to be an adult yet. but I, um, yeah, I went in as a psych major and kind of rotated through like a bunch of different. Options. I went for psych, I went for public health. I wanted to be a physical therapist at one point. Um, but circus had always kind of been like a part of my life, and so my mom actually brought me to see a show at Edinburg Fringe. And this was like the winter of my, or winter of my sophomore year. I had just dropped my public health major. 'cause I took a, I took a medical terminology class

Speaker 4 3:20

and

Dan Saab 3:21

that's Latin. So I went into this class literally for one day. I dropped the class and I dropped the major like right away. So that was basically right before break. And so I went to go see the show with my mom and um, there was, uh, Ariel Hoop performer in the show. And so I hadn't done circus for like about two or three years since I left that camp. And that was kind of like an aha moment for me. So I ended up, uh, transitioning to something that was like a little bit more in line with that. And so 'cause uh, yeah, so basically I ended up going to, Theater because I was like, this will help me with what I want to do. Which at that point then was circus.

Jennifer Pierce 4:07

Yeah. How, how have you felt that your degree has helped you in the success of your career?

Dan Saab 4:12

I think there's a lot of overlap, right? There's a lot of, um, elements of theater that play into elements of circus. 'cause it's all shows, right? It's all shows, it's all performance. So when I was taking my theater or when I was getting my theater degree, a lot of the. Knowledge was general. So it was like you have to take an acting class, you have to take a stage lighting class, you have to take a production management class. So having that background and kind of being able to get the education of, uh, everything that happens, not just what happens on stage, but also all of the moving parts that go into a live production, I think have made it. A lot easier for me to navigate a space where, you know, so many people are gears in making the show work.

Jennifer Pierce 5:03

Yes, I love that because I think there's so many parts that if you don't grow up in the theater and understand production, understanding how everyone's roles kind of fit together and how to speak to the different, uh. Choreographers or lighting designers, right. That can be something that is a little bit of a, a learning curve that you got a little bit of a leg up on.

Dan Saab 5:23

Yeah, a hundred percent. 'cause it's very, um, I think I'm not, I, I don't wanna generalize, but I think there's a lot of people that are on, you know, a lot of people on stage performers that don't realize how much hard work goes into rigging. They don't realize how much hard work goes into lighting design. So they're doing their Q to Q and they're just standing there kind of pissed off. Because they're like, oh, I have to stand here while they fix these lights. And like, they don't understand the, the effort and the hard work that goes into that.

Jennifer Pierce 5:47

Yeah. Awesome. What other places do you find that you see performers that maybe don't have the background in theater? Where, where else do you see, um, artists struggle?

Dan Saab 5:57

Um, I think, I, I think where, at least when it comes to circus specifically, uh. Myself included, we don't really have like a rule book in terms of what a circus career is supposed to look like. So I think where I see artists struggle is I think people have long-term goals, but I think the short term and the immediate steps that they can take to get there are where people tend to struggle a lot because it's really easy to be like. I want to be in Cirque de Soleil one day, but then it's really hard to be like, especially if you don't have mentorship, which is something that I'm really grateful that I had, especially if you don't have mentorship, it's really hard to be like, okay, but what do I need to do to do that? Besides going to the studio for five, six hours a day and train and go to the gym? Like people don't have like a, a resource. A lot of people don't have a resource, not everyone, right? But a lot of people don't have a resource to be like. Okay, well I need to put together a demo reel. How do I put together a demo reel? Do I just throw a bunch of my training videos together? No. You make something that's like one minute long of you performing because people don't wanna watch a five minute demo reel in circus. So I think, I think people struggle with the direction of a career and also the the short term goals of how to attain. What they want long term, if that makes sense.

Jennifer Pierce 7:26

It does, it does. Yeah. I think, um, having that mentorship is really key in kind of seeing the path, not, not it being a linear, straightforward direction. Yeah. But understanding that when you do get to the bends in the road, having someone guide you, you know? Right. Mm-hmm. Or left and saying, this is, you know, this is a good opportunity. So,

Dan Saab 7:44

yeah. And also being able to like be, we're, we're creative. Right. But I think. Uh, as creatives, we have to also apply that same creativity to a career path because if we just kind of listen to one person, um, instead of like, oh, I can also do this, and we kind of just take things at face value and never question, um, I think that's also a road that is not a great place because then you just go end up doing the same thing as someone else instead of making something that, as. Circus artists we get to do is we get to carve out a path for ourselves. like for example, I knew that I maybe one day wanted to tour on stage with a big artist, right? Like I, that was like maybe something that I wanted to do. I still haven't gotten to do that. But I was a, I've been able to carve a path for myself where I am able to travel a lot. 'cause I'm able to go teach workshops and that was not something that I knew right away. It was just kind of something that I was like, okay, I can make this work and it's something that I enjoy.

Jennifer Pierce 8:56

I love that. So kind of moving in that pathway, um, it's amazing how many opportunities there really are out there when you start looking and if you're open to different types of work venues and lengths of engagement, there are opportunities.

Speaker 4 9:13

Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Pierce 9:14

As someone that has worked in different genres from nightlife, cabarets, to big productions at university studios, what do you think has helped you be successful in having a diverse career?

Dan Saab 9:27

Definitely what we talked about earlier of like having that theater knowledge, um, having that, uh. That background of like, okay, this is what goes into a production. And that's really helped me because when I was, so, when I was in college, I was doing a lot of, um, I wasn't just doing my theater studies program. I was learning about big stage stage shows and big productions through my program, but then I was also in like. A, uh, theater group. Um, it was called like MSU Players. we would do different musicals, we would do different stage shows, but we would do it in like the commuter lounge on campus. That's awesome. And so that was like basically, obviously it's not the same as cabaret, right. But it is like a small stage production where you have to do basically everything yourself. So that gave me kind of the really early knowledge of like, okay, this is how a smaller. Show would operate really, really intimate. You have to be, there's, you have to break the fourth wall for the most part, which is something that's really, really big in cabaret is breaking the fourth wall and connecting with an audience. And that's what I think makes it so special. But then having that knowledge of like, okay, so. Uh, basically doing like production management and learning about production management in my theater program and being like, okay, but this is how big shows operate and this is what goes into budgeting and like, all that kind of stuff. But then also from like a, getting thrown into the fire sense, I just generally have been, I don't go in with a lot of expectations for my gigs, um, or for my gigs or for my contracts. And I think it's good to have some expectations and have some. Boundaries for yourself, of course, right? 'cause you wanna advocate for yourself. But I think there is a aspect of adaptability that needs to be had for a performer. Because if you go in and you think that everything is gonna be flawless and everything is gonna operate exactly how you're last contract did,

Speaker 4 11:27

yes,

Dan Saab 11:28

you're gonna get thrown off your game and then. It's just gonna kind of down go downhill from there. You have to like learn to roll with the punches a little bit.

Jennifer Pierce 11:36

I agree. I know in many contracts throughout my career, there was somewhere it needed more, um, involvement of support of, let's say, different elements. So mm-hmm. You're helping maybe move some equipment or you're involved in different transitions. Those may have not been really outlined in my contract, but yeah, I, I knew what I was getting into and I saw the show, so I, I understood that it's more of an integrative process. Right. And I think there's a really fine line that you were kind of alluding to of someone taking advantage and you not having boundaries. Yeah. And knowing when. This is just the process and it's collaborative and it's actually an opportunity mm-hmm. To be woven into the show and to be respected and trusted enough to handle different elements. What are your kind of thoughts on, um, being adaptable and flexible, but where that boundary is?

Dan Saab 12:29

Yeah, I mean it's really, so that's the thing. I think it's really different for everyone and like your boundaries are going to change as you get older. Two is part of it. Like my, when I was really, really young and I was kind of just like taking every job, you know, I was like saying yes to everything. Um, my boundaries were a lot wider. My b or sorry, my boundaries were a lot, uh, further. Yeah. Whereas like, I. You know, I now am not really, I'm not willing to put up with as much, and I don't go about it in like a diva, diva quote, unquote, hate that word, but I don't go about it in that kind of way. Um, but, you know, drawing a respect or drawing a line with respect to everyone is there to try and make this happen basically. Um, so I think. I think you just kind of have to trust your instincts in that sense, because everyone's line is gonna be different. Yeah. Um, you kind of just have to listen to yourself and be like, if you are having a thought of like, I don't think that this is right and I don't think that I should be having to do this, then like, listen to that.

Jennifer Pierce 13:43

For sure. Yeah. I think there's a difference, like if management or casting or the choreographer, you can tell it's not from a place of trying to get more out of the performer. Mm-hmm. But it really is to enhance the production. I, I think knowing. Where the motivation of the person is coming from. I, I think, um, and, and just communication Yeah. Is really key.

Dan Saab 14:04

Yeah, a hundred

Jennifer Pierce 14:05

percent. And doing the legwork on the front end with your contract and asking the questions. 'cause I think often, like you said, we say yes early on, we're like, oh my gosh, I have this opportunity. Mm-hmm. And then we get into it and we don't realize what we really said yes to.

Dan Saab 14:20

Right. Yeah. There's always, uh, not always sorry, but a lot of times there is like a. Oh, well, like you, you were expected to do this. And it's like, oh, but it wasn't in my contract. And Yes. You know?

Jennifer Pierce 14:32

Yeah. And, and it's so hard 'cause there's a very graceful way to navigate that. You know, it's not in my contract. Mm-hmm. And I think it's having those honest conversations at the appropriate times. Right,

Speaker 4 14:45

right. And

Jennifer Pierce 14:45

making sure that that is not in a place where it's high stress or it's around others that's gonna kind of create that friction.

Speaker 4 14:53

Right.

Jennifer Pierce 14:54

So I, I think it's, um, it's a really hard place to navigate when, let's say management is, or casting is not very forward on. All that accomp is encompassed in a contract, right?

Dan Saab 15:07

Yeah. There's a way to bring it up in a professional manner and like one of, one of those ways to bring it up in a professional manner is to bring it up like one-on-one with the person. Mm-hmm. Like bring it, don't bring it up in front of a group of people. And then just like when you're having those conversations, remembering to like kind of level with that person and remember like they are, they are also a human who is like. Trying everything that they can probably to make this show work and make it look the best that it can. But communicating a boundary, you know, staying, staying like true to what your boundary is. But then also, you know, remembering that. They're also a person.

Jennifer Pierce 15:48

They are, yes. And sometimes people, and that doesn't, so many roles. So many roles. Yes. They might not just be a stage manager. And I think sometimes things can get overlooked.

Dan Saab 15:56

Yeah. And that also doesn't apply to all situations because, you know, there's. A lot of shit that happens happens in the theater world. So, you know, the, it's not, this is, it's not like a one size fits all kind of thing, but for the most part,

Jennifer Pierce 16:10

100% yes. I, I feel that. So as someone who teaches and travels and does workshops, something that, um, I think is one of the hardest things. To do as a performer and as a instructor is to give your all as a teacher mm-hmm. And still stand firm that you are unique. So like you are 100% just Dan. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, even though you teach your material, and I'm sure you reserve some things for yourself, but. To come into a space and to teach people to essentially be as good as, or just different than you. 'cause I don't think people are necessarily better than you. I think we all have our uniqueness.

Speaker 4 16:57

Right.

Jennifer Pierce 16:57

How do you bridge that gap? Because I think that is one of the hardest things for, let's say, someone that wants to model a career that is similar to yours mm-hmm. Where you are performing, but you're also teaching. And I, I find that a lot of teachers, they don't, they don't go as deep and as detailed.

Speaker 4 17:14

Yeah.

Jennifer Pierce 17:14

Because they're afraid of other success. Yeah. So how, how do you balance that? Or what's your theory around that?

Dan Saab 17:20

Well, there's like two different components. I think both of them are, both of them are mental, right. But I think the first one is confidence. Like you have to have a sense of confidence in yourself. A, to be a performer in general. Yes. But B, yeah. To like teach your material and then not be like so anxious that the next big thing is in the room. You know, like, 'cause that doesn't. Someone else's successes doesn't affect your value. Yes. And so there's that, there's the level, there's the aspect of like, you need to have confidence in yourself, but then a big part of teaching is like, you know, a lot of times we teach vocabulary, right? But. Teaching vocabulary and teaching style are very, very different things. So if you're teaching vocabulary and someone is doing that vocabulary and the way that you teach it, that's great, but what they probably cannot replicate is the way that you do something and the style and the flare that you put into it, and the thing that makes you uniquely. Yourself as a performer, because I, I hear this a lot, and I don't mean this in like a cocky way or whatever, but I hear people, like, people tell me that I'll, I'll teach them a sequence and they'll be like, oh, well, like, how did you make it like this? And I'll be like, well, I, I put my style, like I put my flare into it so I do this part fast. And like that is something that is much harder and more detailed to teach Yes. Than. Vocabulary.

Jennifer Pierce 18:55

Yeah. No, I think it's, no, you did so good, so good. Because, um, I, I, I love the saying that, um, somebody else, let's say proof that somebody else is getting a contract is, is proof that there's something else. As an opportunity for you. Right. Because if nobody else is working, we, we've got problems. Right? But if somebody is getting something, then that is proof that there's, there is opportunity out there. Right. And I think defining your style and really finding out what makes you tick and what makes you unique Yeah. Is really, is key. So I know, I love that. So how, when you are doing, let's say right now you're doing workshops mm-hmm. And you have performances, how do you balance teaching and your personal life and career demands? It's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah. Because they're different.

Dan Saab 19:45

Definitely different. I mean, so right now I kind of like, it's like a big game of jigsaw, right? So I'm kind of like making, making opportunity where I can, but then like. My, my personal life definitely is important to me, but if I can somehow tie it in with my work life. So for example, right now I had a job in Miami. My family lives in North Florida. Instead of flying back to Seattle, which is where I live, and then just flying back to St. Augustine, I kind of was like, oh, what if I just drive up to St. Augustine and then I stop at other studios along the way? And so I. Pulled on some of the resources that I have, the networking that I have done, and was able to, you know, set up a bunch of workshops at your studio in, in Miami, in like Eustis, uh, uh, west Palm Beach and just kind of like, make a trip out of it. Um, so that's like when we talked earlier, when we talked earlier about like creativity with, with, with our art, but then also with our career paths. Like that's kind of an example of what I mean of like. Making opportunity where you can.

Speaker 4 20:57

Yes.

Dan Saab 20:58

Um, but as, so as far as like work and life balance, like, you know, that's. Mm. I, I think I answered the question. Yeah. It was so good. So good. Yeah. You

Jennifer Pierce 21:13

know, I, I love that because often I, I think our work can be disjointed. Yeah. You know, you have a gig here and then you have, you know, a few month long engagement, but you're only working on the weekends. So It is, it is all about creating opportunities, uh, 'cause that will serve you, you know? 'cause you're always welcome back here anytime.

Speaker 4 21:31

Thank you. Thank you. So, you

Jennifer Pierce 21:33

know, and, and you forge those relationships. And I, I think that's what it is, is. Circus is about the relationships that you forge with others. Yeah. And um, I think it's hard 'cause you have to pick up the phone and you have to call people and that's not comfortable's, you know, it's not easy. It's not because we're

Dan Saab 21:51

all kind of like weird freaks too. A little bit, right? So we're all a little bit awkward. Yeah. It's like, okay wait, but I have to message, I have to message this person that I haven't talked to in a long time and be like, Hey again.

Jennifer Pierce 22:02

Yes. Yeah. Or that you've never talked to. Yeah. And that's just sometimes that's uncomfortable. You know? You have to just be willing to put yourself out there. Yeah. And get the nos

Speaker 4 22:12

right.

Jennifer Pierce 22:12

And yeah, it sucks when somebody says no, but it's not no forever. Mm-hmm. So if you get the no, you still have to, you know, go back in later and say, Hey, remember me?

Speaker 4 22:20

Yep.

Jennifer Pierce 22:21

So, so kind of moving into contracts. What makes something a good fit for you as far as like your personal values, style, life balance? When, when you're considering an opportunity, whether you know to take a contract or not mm-hmm. Or whether to apply for something, what kind of, what filter do you put everything through to say, yes, I am going all in on this?

Dan Saab 22:50

As far as, um, so I'll just start with like, as far as applying. As far as applying, it's like just apply to. Everything because there's, you know, like the market right now is pretty heavily saturated and uh, the opportunities are far and few between. Um, so just apply to everything really. And then. As far as like, once you get past that stage right, they, they say yes. And if you're deciding whether or not it's a good fit for you, it's like what we were talking about with work and life balance. It's like, does this work for my personal life? Like we talked before, we turned on the podcast about like a cruise, a cruise ship performer who was like, oh, I've never done this and I'm seasick. So it's like things like that. for example, I, I've worked a contract and I was there for about like nine months doing contracts out there. I am a lot more of like a, like a, a city person rather than like a more like small town, I just at some point realized that like it wasn't really for me right, to do that long of a contract. So a lot of it is, or to do that long of a contract in that location. Right. And it had nothing to do with the, the genre of the work or the people or any of that. It just had to do with what I was doing in my day-to-day life when I wasn't performing. And a lot of times you don't know until you're there,

Speaker 4 24:16

right?

Dan Saab 24:16

So I think it's important to. Try things. Really, it's important to try things and then you can decide afterwards if it doesn't work for you. But, um, if I'm in a situation of like deciding between two things, if I have, like, you know, I'm, I'm on a contract and I'm like, oh, do I take this other job? I think something that really sticks out. In my brain is, you know, a money talks, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna be shy about that. Yeah. Money does talk, of course. But something that I also think about is like longevity and uh, like future opportunities. I think people, people can get a little caught up in the shiny new short term and then kind of not think about, oh, but you know, maybe, maybe this other company is offering you like. Potential like four or five other shows down the line, but you really wanna do this, uh, shiny gig that's right in front of you at the cost of giving up the consistent work,

Jennifer Pierce 25:23

right?

Dan Saab 25:24

So it's kind of a, it's kind of a balance. So at least for me, you know, I think about. Just like day-to-day conditions in life. And then I also, uh, in life on a contract, but then I'm also thinking about like, who can I grow with?

Jennifer Pierce 25:39

Yeah.

Dan Saab 25:40

As an artist and a performer.

Jennifer Pierce 25:42

Yeah. It's all about playing the long game. You have to really kind of zoom out and see how it's gonna influence you later.

Speaker 4 25:47

Right.

Jennifer Pierce 25:48

So I love that. So what habits either internal or external, do you rely on to maintain your energy? Um, just staying in shape when you're on contracts? What are, what are through lifestyle shifts, what are some things that you recommend everyone to stop and think about when they are going into any opportunities? They're accepting.

Dan Saab 26:14

So this is gonna sound so lame for me. I am like a really big dork at heart. Like I'm an introvert and I'm a dork. So if I'm going through like, you know, I just did like a really intense contract and I have like a couple days off the, the only thing I want to do is I wanna lay down, I wanna be horizontal and I wanna play my video games and that's it. So like. For, for some people, like, it's basically like a recentering, right? Like my way of recentering myself between like a lot of changing aspects, whether it be like, you know, I'm, I'm was just in Miami and now I'm. A day later drive, I drove up and I'm in Orlando, like I need to recenter myself. So my way to recenter myself is to lay in bed and play video games for a little bit. I love that. Um, so kind of just finding whatever that means for you, basically, how can you, yeah. How can you, like, stabilize your nervous system?

Speaker 4 27:16

Yes.

Dan Saab 27:18

Um, and then as far as like staying in shape. It's a little, it's difficult, right? Because it's like, not everywhere you go is gonna have access to like a gym, right? Necessarily. But I mean like body weight exercises, you know, body, I hate body weight exercises, but body weight exercises are, you know, the way to go. You don't need equipment for it. You could do it in like a, a two by four space, um, or four by four space. Like, yeah, that's probably having, having a few of those at your disposal just to like, you know. If you're not feeling super great and you're like, I need to work out a little bit, that's, that's

Jennifer Pierce 27:57

your go-to.

Dan Saab 27:58

Just do some pushups.

Jennifer Pierce 27:59

Yes. I, I love that. I think we all have to have our things that we know are going to keep us best so we can show up as the best performer mm-hmm. As the best teacher, but then also honor ourself.

Speaker 4 28:13

Yeah.

Jennifer Pierce 28:13

So you gotta know thyself as they say. Mm-hmm. Awesome. Any last things that you would love artists to know? Like what is, what is something that, if you could tell either a working artist or an aspiring artist, like a struggle point you see right now, what is the one piece of advice that you would like them to hold on to?

Dan Saab 28:37

Oh my God, my one piece of advice is to ask for advice, like, especially for newer. Newer artists, like something that I think, at least, at least in my scope of US circus specifically right now, something that I think we're missing a lot of is outside of places like Necca, right? Like Necca is one of the, the first ones that comes, comes to mind. Um, I know there's a few others, um, but I don't think we have a lot of training programs in the US that are specific for helping. Younger artists, like navigate the industry. And I think we talk about rates a lot, right? And we talk about younger artists taking gigs that maybe they shouldn't be. And you know, kind of like downgrading the, the, the industry, the market rates and, and stuff like that. So I think, I think asking for. Advice from people in your community if you are like a newer performer. Um, I think that is like something that I would put out there, um, of just like ask the people that have been in, that have been been doing this, um, should I, should I take the gig? Yes or no? Like, should I take the gig? Is this rigging safe? That's like a big one. Yes. You know, uh, especially with like nightlife and stuff like that where people just kind of, they throw a span set around the bar. Around the bar and they're like,

Speaker 4 30:13

maybe it

Dan Saab 30:13

works. Yeah. Um. Like, I was very lucky to, as I said, as I said earlier, I was really lucky to have like a, a mentor or I had like a few mentors, um, at Circus Warehouse, which is RIP now gone. But that was another training program that was like, you know, it was preparing younger circus artists to navigate the industry. So we were able to have those conversations. So I think now that. A lot of those spaces are gone because of COVID. Um, I think now more than ever, it's really important to ask the questions.

Jennifer Pierce 30:53

I love that. Yeah. I think asking questions. It, uh, and if you don't get the answer right away, don't feel bad to move on to somebody else and ask the same question.

Dan Saab 31:01

Yeah. It's better to, it's better to get, it's better to get insight rather than just do it and then, you know, hope.

Jennifer Pierce 31:11

Definitely. I love that. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today, Dan. Of

Dan Saab 31:15

course. Thank you for having me.

Jennifer Pierce 31:17

Okay guys, before you go, I want to invite you into something I'm really excited about. Throughout today's conversation, Dan kept coming back to one thing, mentorship matters, asking questions, getting guidance, and not trying to figure this industry out alone can change. Everything. That's exactly why I created Castable, a free three day mentorship experience designed to help you transform your submission materials and start positioning yourself more clearly for the opportunities you want. Over three days. We'll break down how casting actually reads your materials, how to present yourself with clarity and confidence, and how to make your submissions work. For you, not against you, and just as important, I want to get to know you and your goals so I can support you more intentionally. You can sign up through the link on the podcast Instagram page or at Arete Act Development, and if you can't join live, don't worry. Everything will be recorded and sent out so you won't miss a thing. If this episode resonated with you, I encourage you to take that next step, sign up, show up, and invite another artist who would definitely benefit from this, because building a career in this industry is better when we do it together. Thanks so much for being part of this community and for continuing to invest in yourself as an artist. And remember, you already have what it takes. The next step is learning how to show it. I'll see you inside castable.