The “This Tall to Ride” Standard with Samantha Oft : Strength + Capacity for the professional circus Artist

What does it really take to stay healthy in a career where your body is your job?

In this episode of The Artist Behind the Art, I sit down with Samantha Oft, PT, DPT, ATC — Doctor of Physical Therapy, Certified Athletic Trainer, and former Head Therapist for Cirque du Soleil’s La Nouba in Disney Springs. Sam has spent the past decade working with athletes and performers, bridging orthopedic rehab, emergency care, and performance support at the highest level. Samantha is one of a kind and is known for: helping artists get back to their work — and stay there.

We talk about how to find a healthcare provider who actually listens, what “capacity” really means in the professional world, and why being able to do a skill once is very different than being able to do it 500 shows a year.

This conversation is equal parts practical and mindset-shifting — because the goal isn’t just to heal. It’s to build a body that can sustain your career.

In this episode, we cover:

•  How to find a PT/physio who treats the whole human (and why the insurance model often blocks that)
• Why artists should build their care team before they’re injured
•  What “capacity” actually means: perform → recover → repeat without breaking down
• The reality of resident show schedules (and why you can’t live at 100% max output)
• How to increase work capacity through a “needs analysis” and specific training
• The big misconception: skill training ≠ strength training
•  Why strength is essential (and the truth about “getting bulky”)
• What recovery really is (and why it’s not the Instagram version)
•  Sam’s two core reminders for artists:
  •   Your body heals when you rest
  •   Strength training is not your enemy — it’s longevity

About Samantha Oft:
Samantha Oft, PT, DPT, ATC is a Doctor of Physical Therapy and Certified Athletic Trainer in the Orlando, Florida area. She has worked in sports medicine and orthopedic rehab for 10+ years, including supporting Division I athletics and performers at Walt Disney World. She served as Head Therapist for Cirque du Soleil’s La Nouba until its closure in 2017, where she contributed to emergency and movement screening systems tailored to acrobatic work. After Cirque, she co-founded Next Level Physiotherapy and Performance, a private concierge practice dedicated to making elite-level PT and performance care accessible to more people.

Key takeaway:
Your act can be impressive — but if it isn’t sustainable, it isn’t professional-ready.
Your goal isn’t to train harder. It’s to train smarter.

Thanks so much for listening to The Artist Behind the Art.
This podcast exists to support performers in building sustainable, aligned, and castable careers — beyond just the skills.

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If you feel like you have the talent—but when it comes to act creation, something just isn’t fully clicking—this is for you.

Most of the time, it’s not a complete overhaul.
 It’s a few missing tools and a few shifts in how you’re approaching the process.

That’s what takes you from second-guessing your work
 to becoming the artist who is ready to go for the opportunities you actually want.

If that resonates, I’d love to connect.

📩 Email me at jennifer@aretementorship.com

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Remember — you already have what it takes.
 The question is: are you ready to prove it to yourself?

Until next time — show up big and own the stage.

Transcript

Jennifer Pierce 0:01

Welcome to the Artist Behind the Art, the podcast that lists the curtain on what it takes to thrive as a professional performer. I'm your host, Jennifer Pierce, artist coach, creative strategist, and lifelong advocate for performers who are ready to go from unsure to unforgettable. This is where the gatekeeping ends and your journey to thriving in the industry begins. Let's dive in. Hi Sam. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. It's my pleasure. I'm so happy that you asked. We have worked together for many years. I've sent a lot of different artists your way, so I have just enjoyed getting to know you and work with you and, um, I think you are, Jeff's definitely a one of a kind physiotherapist in that you are so dedicated in. Looking at the human, asking what their goals are and really honing in on how that is achievable for that artist. So I just wanted number one start by saying thank you for being that person that is, that invested in their clients, um, to where you kind of go to the ends of the earth to find the answers for them. I think that is very unique And, so I, I kind of wanted to open up, with how can somebody find a Sam. Because everyone, everyone should have someone that is in that, in their corner. You know, your, your, your teacher, um, your trainer, people should be invested in, in your life in that capacity. How can someone find someone like you?

Samantha Oft 1:38

Well, first of all, that's way too flattering for Monday morning, I feel like. Thank you so much. Um, that's, it's a hard thing, right? Um, healthcare doesn't. Healthcare based, uh, in the insurance model is, is a volume based business. And so it's, it is really hard to find someone who's gonna sit down and spend the time. So what I can't tell you is, is here's a specific formula to find somebody. I, I personally, am in cash. Physical therapy, which means that I don't have an insurance company dictating what every minute of my day is worth. I get to decide that, and because I get to decide that I get to choose to spend more time with people. So sometimes cash practice can be better in that regard, but not always. It's hard. It is hard, but I think we often forget that we are consumers in healthcare, and if something isn't aligning with where it is that we want to go, then we can choose a different provider. We don't have to stay locked into one provider because that's who our general practitioner told us to go to, or that's who the orthopedics said, go to this specific physical therapist. A lot of times they're referring to a physical therapy practice that is part of their physician practice, and we don't recognize that they have a vested interest monetarily in sending us to their physical therapy provider. Yes,

Jennifer Pierce 2:54

yes.

Samantha Oft 2:54

And so I think just. Being aware that the insurance model is driving this, and you know, being a smarter consumer of your healthcare, which is a really tough thing to say because we're not intended to understand it. Definitely. Genuinely. Yeah.

Jennifer Pierce 3:11

I, I think it's hard because often we do try to find something that fits either in our budget Yes. Or our insurance model, uh, model. But I don't think that's always achievable. If somebody, let's say, had more of a, uh, limited capacity budgetarily mm-hmm. What would you recommend for them as a circus artist to get the support that they need?

Samantha Oft 3:35

You mean from a physical health perspective?

Jennifer Pierce 3:37

From a really, actually, I would say from a preventative healthcare, um, because I think so many of us, we run to our physical therapists when. When something's wrong. Yeah. Instead of going ahead of time and looking at it from a perspective of what can I do to keep myself healthy, to keep from visiting you as much as I love to come visit you, um, and, and get to refer you because, uh, in the moment where athletes need you, you are just invaluable. But there are so many things that I think people could invest in, in the preventative aspect. Yeah. What

Samantha Oft 4:12

would you say for that? Well, it is funny because. If somebody is coming to see me, usually it's not because things have gone well.

Jennifer Pierce 4:19

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 4:19

But I'm always happy to see people. But you know, also sad that they have to come see me. So I completely get that part. From a preventative, uh, perspective, it's finding it, it's knowing that you're probably going to need something. As a circus artist, you're probably going to need a physical therapist at some point. A physio, an athletic trainer, an athletic therapist, depending upon where you're at in the world, and to start seeking those. Those people out, that support out before you're injured so that you don't feel trapped and stuck based, you know, bound to the referrals that you're getting from physicians after you've already been hurt because. So many other things are going on inside an artist's head after they've already been injured. Yes. Looking for a quality PT at that point probably isn't. It's not gonna be an easy thing to do.

Jennifer Pierce 5:03

No.

Samantha Oft 5:03

So seeking that out ahead of time, but the circus artists, and performing arts in general is an incredible community of people. Very supportive. It always has been. Every facet of performing arts and circus or dance that I've ever been in is just a huge community. And yes, it can be competitive, but typically when it comes to physical health. Injury, recovery and wellbeing. I find that people come together, so it's asking, it's word of mouth. It doesn't have to be somebody who's, you know, right here with you in the city that you're in, although that is helpful, no question. But reaching out to your other friends who are in similar roles and finding who they use. I love that. And then I have a lot of people who will reach out to me and say, Hey, do you know any quality PTs in Vegas? We just had a, a, a common, um, artist of ours move out to Vegas, and I was approached to find somebody out there. So word of mouth and asking for referrals helps a ton because if you've got somebody that you know you love, you trust, there's chances are they're also. Community in the physical therapy world with other people that you would probably know love and trust, or if not, that will tell you that.

Jennifer Pierce 6:07

I love that. So asking

Samantha Oft 6:08

for just asking for referrals. Okay. Hey, do you know anybody over here or in Vegas or in Montreal or in Paris or whatever.

Jennifer Pierce 6:14

I love that guys. So don't be afraid to pick up the phone. I think that's what I'm hearing is, you know, I think we often don't wanna bother people, but it's, it's our body. Yeah. And, and since our body is what we use. For our profession. You, you can't be shy. You've got to really Absolutely. Be all in on that.

Samantha Oft 6:32

Yeah, absolutely. Ask the questions and maybe picking up the phone, you know, making a voice call isn't what this generation is gonna want to do this up and coming generation of circus artists, but I mean, everybody's on Instagram at this point, right? Yeah. Like we're all receiving text messages. Just shoot the message.

Jennifer Pierce 6:45

Love

Samantha Oft 6:45

that. Absolutely. Yes. Ask the question.

Jennifer Pierce 6:47

Yes, ask the questions, pick up the phone. So that kind of ties into what we were talking about before coming on about capacity. Um, and I, I think that's the biggest thing is, you know, you might be able to do. Your discipline, your skill, once, twice, maybe you can do it for you, you know, within a class, and depending upon what your training regimen is, there is a difference between being able to do that on a, uh, recreational level. But if you're wanting, if you're, let's say a developing professional or you're already working in the professional space. Let's talk about capacity. What does that mean to you, and how can someone get to, let's say, the aspirational level for that high level, top tier company that they would ultimately like to work for?

Samantha Oft 7:32

So without getting too scientific, let's just keep this pretty simple. Um, capacity is just your ability to perform physical tasks over time and recover from those. Without breaking down, without injury. Right. So it's your ability to do, to do the physical activity, recover from the physical activity and potentially handle the increasing workload, if that's what it demands over time.

Jennifer Pierce 7:54

Yes. Awesome. So as far as we had talked about kind of, um. Show load over time. Yep. So what does that look like for, let's say, Cirque de Soleil or, um, you know, the other companies that people go, okay, ultimately that's a big vision, but there's a big gap between where somebody is. And actually being able to do that with a sustainable level. So how, how many shows is that?

Samantha Oft 8:21

It depends. It depends. Everybody hates that answer, but it depends. So let's, let's just narrow in on Cirque du Soleil. 'cause that's where, that's where my history in circus is. So Cirque du Soleil has three different show mounts, right? There's. The resident show, which is where I came from here in Orlando. And then there's the two different touring mounts. There's big top and there's arena. So I'll just speak to what I know. I know that the touring shows do less shows, but then you also have travel on top of that, so that's a whole different beast. Yes. And we, you can probably, I can hook you up with somebody who can tell you all about that world. I've only visited in them left. So in the resident shows division, it's about 500 shows a year.

Jennifer Pierce 8:54

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 8:55

Yeah. So two shows a night, five days a week, about 500 shows a year. And so you've got periods of time where the show will go dark for a week or two weeks, um, and it's usually spaced out, you know, once a quarter, there's some sort of break where it's, you have a long weekend, an extra day off, or you've got a two week dark like midpoint in your year. And then, you know, you spread it out. And then there's a, you know, like a one week and a one week, three months ahead and behind that. So it's It's a lot of shows. Yeah, it's a lot of shows. And when you're talking about getting up to that next level, that next tier, I think it's important to remember that when you're looking at something like 500 shows a year, you can't be doing the hardest skill that you can do 500 times a year.

Jennifer Pierce 9:38

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 9:38

You wouldn't, you wouldn't expect a power lifter to go into a gym and max out every day and not get injured.

Jennifer Pierce 9:45

Yes. So.

Samantha Oft 9:47

Doing something 500 times a year has to be something that you can sustain, that you have the capacity to do over and over and over again without getting injured, and you cannot max every day over, over, and over again and not get injured. It's impossible. So it has to be something that's not at the top of where your game is at. Skill wise, but something more mid-range. Yeah. And so if you're looking at going from a recovery perspective, if you're looking at going, you know, higher level into some of these bigger production companies, then you have to have the skill to be able to say in something high level all the time.

Jennifer Pierce 10:19

Definitely. Now if somebody has, let's say, some skills that they would say are they're, they are gonna get them in the room, what would you recommend for them to be able like. To train to be able to do those in that sustainable realm. Let's say someone has an act mm-hmm. And their act has, it, it, it's definitely challenging for them. Right? How can they take that act from being. Challenging to a sustainable place to do that 500 shows? Like what, what would you recommend for them to do? So like, would it be that they, uh, I, I'm gonna make a, example. So they, um, add some extra body weight to them. Mm-hmm. You know, so you, you know, I now are taking like. A part of those components and then saying, okay, I'm going to do these training aspects that are going to let me be able to exceed my current capacity of, the stamina aspect. The cardio aspect is, is there anything that you would say that they could take a look at their act, break it apart and say, these are, these are gonna be my target, uh, places to focus on to. Be able to do this act in a way that it is no longer at the top tier of my exertion. Yeah. But now it's in that like acceptable range.

Samantha Oft 11:42

So there's a couple of ways to get at that, I think. But the, the steak and potatoes of what you're getting at here is, is just work capacity.

Jennifer Pierce 11:50

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 11:50

Right. How do I increase my work capacity?

Jennifer Pierce 11:53

Definitely.

Samantha Oft 11:53

You would have to look at, you'd have to perform what we call a needs analysis,

Jennifer Pierce 11:57

okay.

Samantha Oft 11:57

Of where it is that what it is that you're trying to achieve, right? And so then, you know, if it's, if it's a four minute act and an hour and a half show, and this act requires, you know, a, a certain level of, uh, strength. It requires a certain level of cardiovascular capacity, right. You have to have, you have to have those things in abundance. That capacity has to be in abundance of what it is that you're trying to do. And if it's not, then you have to build those individually.

Jennifer Pierce 12:25

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 12:25

So if it's a upper body muscular endurance issue, like you can do the act, but you can't stay in the air for that long before your arms get tired, for instance, then that's what you're working on. If you can do all the things. Over a period of time, but not to the music or you're sucking wind. Right. Well then we probably have a cardiovascular, you know, there's an issue there. Those, those systems can, you know, those types of acts can challenge both systems. So it's specificity of training. In that regard. Um, but what we're talking about is getting at a higher work capacity for what it is that you wanna do. But first you have to understand what it is that you're trying to do.

Jennifer Pierce 13:02

Right.

Samantha Oft 13:02

Does that make sense? It does,

Jennifer Pierce 13:03

yeah. Do you find that artists, um, there's a common thread between people that come and visit you as far as their capacity? Is there something that you see as a physical therapist that you go. I, I wish more people would invest more time and energy into this.

Samantha Oft 13:23

Yes, yes. So this, this goes a step beyond capacity and its strength.

Jennifer Pierce 13:29

Okay.

Samantha Oft 13:30

Because I find in the performing arts world, strength is valued. It's valuable to be strong.

Jennifer Pierce 13:35

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 13:35

But there is a fear of looking strong.

Jennifer Pierce 13:39

Mm, yes. So, yeah.

Samantha Oft 13:41

I often joke, and it's not a good joke, but it gets the point across, um, when I have folks who come into the clinic and we, they need to be strong because there. Doing a wildly athletic sport. Yeah. Maybe you don't wanna call it that, but this is an athletic performance. Yeah. Is what this is. And I have people who are like, oh, I don't wanna lift weights because I'm gonna get bulky. You're not gonna trip over a five pound weight and look like Schwarzenegger, that's just not gonna happen. Yes. And that's the bad joke, right? Um, but yeah, I mean there's so many other things, but just above capacity. If you look at this like a pyramid, and there is one, I didn't make this up. This is Verne's Hierarchy of athletic performance or athletic development, just above work capacity is strength.

Jennifer Pierce 14:22

Okay.

Samantha Oft 14:22

But so many I find, and it's changing now, it's getting better, but I find that so many artists are still off put by strength training.

Jennifer Pierce 14:32

Yeah,

Samantha Oft 14:33

very much so. Yeah, because the fear is, oh, I'm gonna look bulky, I'm gonna look too muscular. And that is a really difficult thing to achieve. Looking very bulky. There's so much that goes into that. There is a ton of of calorie management that goes into that. You have to eat so much, and as we know, performing arts is very aesthetic.

Jennifer Pierce 14:55

Yeah,

Samantha Oft 14:55

very aesthetic. Good, bad, or ugly, that that changes how we relate to food. And we need food for recovery. And so a lot of times we can't ask people to lift a bunch of weights and consume that many calories because they won't do it.

Jennifer Pierce 15:11

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 15:12

So there's a lot of stigma around it. There's a ton of stigma and we could probably go on for hours about that. So I won't, I won't stay there, but I would hate to not at least touch on that because it matters. Yes, it matters. To get really bulky from lifting weights, you have to eat a lot. Yeah. Like a lot. And we find in performing arts that that's often not the case. Yeah. So I promise you're not gonna get bulky tripping over a five pound weight.

Jennifer Pierce 15:36

I love it. But getting stronger is so important. So as far as the strength training, because. Most artists, we go into our training space and we learn skills because skills are the foundation of what is going to get us hired because we need to wow the audience. You know, we, we need those high level things. So when we talk about strength training, we have our specific strength training around skills. Let's say it is, you know, an acrobat. Yeah. You know, you're going to be climbing, you're gonna be doing pull-ups. Now when we talk about strength training, are you speaking about specific exercises outside the studio with weights? Yes, yes,

Samantha Oft 16:15

yes. Doesn't always have to be with weights. Okay. But yes, specific exercises outside of the studio that don't involve your skill as well. Mm-hmm. So I just, there's the, yeah. Right, right. So I actually did, um, a speech at a conference several years ago about this, and it was strength versus skill. Right. And it was geared towards physical therapists. Versus, you know, athletes or artists in, in our situation. And there's a distinct difference. Just doing the skill doesn't necessarily make you strong enough to continue to do the skill over and over again. Yeah. And we, we get that in the clinic quite a lot.

Jennifer Pierce 16:50

I love that. Yeah. So as far as if someone was looking at their training schedule and they're, they're saying, okay, you know, it's the new year and obviously everybody always kind of does this. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. This overhaul of how we think and if they were actually gonna take some actionable change between the way they balance their training. So they're going into the studio, and I think when, when we go into train, we have our focus of skill learning. We have our focus of, uh, creating something that is then sellable. And then, um, from there we have our artistry development, right? So now we're, we're putting in there our specific. Strength training? Correct. How would you, how, how often would you say that strength training needs to be incorporated into that? Like what would that as a physical therapist, if you were looking at someone and saying, this is how I would love for you to structure your week, what would that look like? You are gonna hate this, but it depends. Oh, no, I hard to hear. I, I'm excited. It depends. It depends. Yes. Yes. There is brain. It always

Samantha Oft 17:48

depends, right? It always depends. So to build strength. Any meaningful strength that's measurable.

Jennifer Pierce 17:55

Okay.

Samantha Oft 17:56

It's probably gonna take around 12 weeks, six to 12 weeks. Six weeks is really early. At that point, you're probably just getting motor learning, right? Okay. Yes. You're just learning something. You're, you know, people who haven't worked out go into the gym and they start off really light, and then pretty soon they find, oh wow, I'm getting stronger so fast. Probably not. Yeah. That's not how strength works. Unfortunately, that physiological adaptation doesn't happen that fast. Okay. But you do. Get more skilled at performing the exercise where you've learned how to do it better. Right. So you're more efficient. Okay. Um, and that's motor learning. And that happens pretty fast, but, but strength takes months to build. Yeah. Um, but as far as how things are structured. I hate to take an artistic podcast and compare it back to traditional sport, but let's do that for just a minute. Yeah. Because when you look at that, right, you have on the field training, you have, you know, you, depending upon what sport that you're looking at, you have it broken down by position, and you do specific training that way. But then they also have strength and conditioning built into that, and then they have their strategy. Right. Yeah. And so if we apply that model here, it really isn't any different. You have the skill-based training that you're doing, you know, at the studio with you. You have the artistry development that you're doing with you or somebody else. Right? But that's separate from the skill. Yes. But then you also have the strength and conditioning piece, and so. This is, these are like foundational building blocks of a professional, athletic, or artistic career.

Jennifer Pierce 19:21

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 19:22

And so for whatever reason in performing arts, we don't tend to lump all of those things together. But if you went to an NFL team, you'd be shocked if they didn't have strength and conditioning on site. Yes. Right. You'd be shocked to find that. Um, we're just not in the same space yet. And the answer is money to that of course, because that's how that works. But, um. It, it does need to be this non-negotiable, like of course we include this in. You know, the overall building of this act, this, you know, the artistry, the, the skills, the strength has to go there too, because physical capacity is at the base of all of this.

Jennifer Pierce 19:56

Yes.

Samantha Oft 19:56

So how do you work it into your schedule? Well, again, I hate to say it, it depends. It does depend. 'cause what else is going on in your life? Is this a full-time student? Mm-hmm. Is this a mm-hmm. Is this a mother of three? Is this a, you know, so, so

Jennifer Pierce 20:06

let me give you a base kind of model student that, uh, that we're gonna work with. And then everybody I think can kind of. Take that and, and maybe apply where their capacity of time and, and availability is of the other elements that, you know, go into. Of course. So we have, um, an artist that is an acrobat and they are, let's say. About to go into the professional realm. They have, um, some experience already performing. Okay. So they have been training, let's say six to eight years. They have high level skills, but when they get through their act, they, they would not have that ability. To put themself in the space and be sustainable for a long career. Okay. So they're, they're strong. Um, if they came to you with strength level testing Yep. Their mobility is in normal healthy ranges. Yep. Um, their strength, let's say they can pull out the normal 10 to 15 pull-ups, you know, and everything. Textbook is good, but it's not great. Okay. So they're not gonna be as competitive, let's say, as somebody has that edge. So they're really, so they're trying to get.

Samantha Oft 21:15

From where they're at to that next level. Yes. That resident show 500 times a year. Yes. Yeah. They,

Jennifer Pierce 21:21

they really wanna be competitive with high level, so, so those little things that when they go in for an audition are not going, they're not gonna get passed over. Yeah. So we're looking at somebody that is really ready to emerge out, but they, they have all of those. Base level metrics. Okay.

Samantha Oft 21:37

So I'll, I'll speak in generalizations here, which is something that I'm not a big fan of doing. Mm-hmm. But I will do it 'cause I understand, I understand the question, I understand what we're trying to get at and I think it's, how much time does it really take to dedicate to increasing my work capacity? Yes. Over time. Yeah. Right. So. Again, you have to start with the needs analysis of where it is that you're trying to go. Because if you're not trying to perform 500 shows a year, then this is gonna look different. Yeah. If you're trying to be a gig performer who really goes hard during the holiday season, that's, this is different.

Jennifer Pierce 22:08

Yes.

Samantha Oft 22:08

But in general, if you're trying to build stamina, cardiovascular conditioning, you know, muscle strength, um, it's gonna be something that's gonna take a good amount of time. Yeah. And consistency to do it. Okay. So three to four days a week is something that It is pretty average.

Jennifer Pierce 22:25

I love that. And that would be three to four days a week of dedicated strength training and cardiovascular training, would you say,

Samantha Oft 22:33

if that's what. The, if that's what the goal is, if that's what the show is requiring of them physically and physiologically, then yes. Okay. And that's not an easy thing to, and I know everybody wants this answer, right? Yeah. It's like, tell me what to do. I can't. Yeah. Because I don't know what it is that you're trying to get to. Yeah. If I know what it is that you're trying to get to, we, like I said, we call that a needs analysis. We look at it and then we build the programming. To fit where you're trying to go.

Jennifer Pierce 22:59

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 23:00

Because if you don't need to be hanging from your arms and you don't need a grip strength to hold your body up for four minutes in the air Yeah. But you have to, you know, do 17 back flips. I'm gonna train you very differently. Yeah. That's, you know what I mean? Specificity is specificity of training. Absolutely. And you know, I think a lot of times we get. General fitness, strength and conditioning and perf like human performance enhancement mixed up. Right? Yes. Those things, you see things on Instagram and people are just doing exercises and because they're a high level artist you think, oh, I should be doing these things too. Mm-hmm. General fitness is not the same thing as strength and conditioning. General fitness is something that I do now, right? Like I want to live a long, healthy life and weight training is the Fountain of youth in my opinion. So I'm gonna do that. Yes. But that's general fitness, right? Yes. Like I just wanna be able to like get my Christmas tree up and down.

Jennifer Pierce 23:46

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 23:47

Play with my kids, those sorts of things. If I was training for something specifically like an aerial act that's strength and conditioning, because now I'm tailoring this specifically to what it is that I need to be able to do,

Jennifer Pierce 23:58

definitely

Samantha Oft 23:59

human performance is a whole different thing.

Jennifer Pierce 24:00

Okay.

Samantha Oft 24:01

That's a whole different thing. Like we're at the top of our game and we're trying to like shave off, you know, milliseconds from our time in the pool, you know? Yes. It's, that's an extreme for an example, but you know what I mean? Like for the most part, what we're talking about is strength and conditioning, and that needs to be specific to what it is. We're trying to achieve. Yeah. Or is the artist are trying to achieve.

Jennifer Pierce 24:19

So ultimately, if you were meeting with an artist and they were wanting to increase their capacity in all of these realms, and let's say mm-hmm. We're working with this base level artist, a physical therapist that they're working with should be looking at their cardiovascular output and, and having them probably have that part of their training, that that would be something potentially

Samantha Oft 24:40

Definitely, yes. I mean, 'cause you need all of that, but also it may not be a physical therapist that you're looking for. At that point, it may be a strength coach. Okay. Because usually, if you think about it, physical therapists, we're dealing with injured tissue, helping people get back to. The state that they were in when they had healthy tissue before their injury.

Jennifer Pierce 24:58

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 24:58

So it would be my dream if physical therapists looked at physical therapy in terms of strength and conditioning.

Jennifer Pierce 25:07

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 25:08

At least in, at least in the, in the athletic world or the artistic world. Right. A strength and conditioning for people who have an injury versus just getting people out of pain and then turning them back over to their sport. Yeah. I really would like us to behave more like strength coaches. Yes. And I think a lot of our doctors would like us to behave more like strength coaches too. But if the, if you've got somebody who's not injured, then a strength coach is gonna be a much cheaper option. You don't have to deal with insurance.

Jennifer Pierce 25:33

Yes, no, definitely. Yeah. And I, I think, uh, you are unique in the way that. You do treat artists when once they get healthy, you're like, okay, great, you're healthy now. What? I I, fabulous. Let's don't

Samantha Oft 25:47

get injured again.

Jennifer Pierce 25:47

Yeah. I, I always love, I forgot what you say when it's like, you know, I, I would love, you know, I, I definitely would love for you to come back, love seeing you, but you know, I don't want you to come back on account of your health, like a hundred percent. If there's something I've heard you say in the past, I love

Samantha Oft 25:58

money, but I don't love dirty money.

Jennifer Pierce 26:00

Exactly. Yes. So let's get

Samantha Oft 26:02

you healthy so you don't have to come back.

Jennifer Pierce 26:03

Yes. Yeah, so I, I think you, you are unique in the fact that you do work with artists, getting them not back to you, you know, being healthy. You get them past that and, and into a capacity where you're not going to see them. That's the goal.

Samantha Oft 26:20

Yeah. That's genuinely the goal. And there's nothing fancy that we do, to be honest. It's just the basics. Yeah. And all the time we are working on doing the basics better, but that's where. We focus all of our time and energy in the clinic is to doing the basics better. I need objective strength measure, uh, the ability to measure strength objectively. If I were to measure your biceps and I pushed down on your wrist and said, hold this here at 90 degrees and don't let me move you, and I couldn't move you, I could assume that you're strong, but maybe I'm weak. What if Schwarzenegger walked into the room at his peak in the nineties and eighties? I don't even know. Eighties, seventies. It doesn't matter. Yeah. And he pushed you down and you broke immediately. Yeah. That says more about. Our strength is the testers than it does as your strength. Yes. 'cause it's not objective. There's no, there's nothing, there's no number there. There's no amount of force output that we're seeing. So we measure it objectively in the clinic.

Jennifer Pierce 27:13

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 27:13

And then we normalize, we use torque. So we're getting a moment, our measurement, which is physics. And I know we don't wanna talk. It's probably not where anybody, nobody listening wants to hear this. Um, so we get a torque measure, but we also normalize it to your body weight. And then we can compare that against age. Gender, sex, specifically related norms. Right. Um, I would love to say we can compare you to circus artists or dancers. We really can't. Yeah. Because those metrics don't really exist the way they do for traditional American sports like football, basketball, soccer. Right. Um, we're working on it, but those don't exist just yet. Yeah. But we have to be able to measure those things objectively and then to know. Where you stack up, not just side to side. Yeah. Oh, my left arm is this and my right arm is this. But what if you're symmetrical, but you're symmetrically weak?

Jennifer Pierce 27:57

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 27:59

No, definitely. We need to know that. And there are benchmarks for just about everything, but those benchmarks are for general population of active people. So if you're not meeting those things well then we know we have work to do. Yeah. And so. We need to strength train you, but not just throwing exercises against the wall. I need to know where your strength is in general compared to yourself and compared to the norms Normalized for body weight. And yes, we're using torque most of the time, but we need to know what needs to be stronger.

Jennifer Pierce 28:27

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 28:28

And if it needs to be stronger. Well, if you're, if you're not hitting the strength, you know, we call it the, this tall to ride, right?

Jennifer Pierce 28:37

Yes. Yeah,

Samantha Oft 28:38

yeah. Those, those numbers that I'm speaking of are basically, it's like, oh, this tall to ride. Right, right. That's it. That's all those are. It's not like, oh, if you hit this mark

Jennifer Pierce 28:46

yeah, then

Samantha Oft 28:46

you're never gonna get injured. So for us it's, are you at least this tall to ride? 'cause if you don't have the requisite strength for running or jumping. Hanging from a bar, then you're gonna get injured. Yeah. Because you don't have the requisite strength to do the basics things that are the, like the foundational building blocks of what it is that you're trying to achieve.

Jennifer Pierce 29:06

Definitely, yes. So

Samantha Oft 29:07

we start there, we start there with all of that, um, and then we compare you over time to where you were before. And we look for a percentage of change until we get to that this tall to ride mark. Yeah. And then, yes, we can go higher, we can go higher level than that with those numbers, but for the most part, by that time, people get it. They're like, oh, I don't need you anymore. I'm like, fabulous. That's the goal. Yes. That is the goal. Yes. That's the goal. Yeah. Because you wanna go off and do fabulous things and move to Vegas or move to LA or go on tour and see the world. Yes. And that's wonderful and I wanna help you with that and call me love it. Like I can help, but we wanna make sure that our folks get at least in a good understanding how of how to foundationally be strong and understand. Where they're starting from and where their goal is, and then yeah, they're gonna hit that this tall to ride in the middle.

Jennifer Pierce 29:53

Awesome. I love that. So as far as those benchmarks and such, so when I'm training athletes and let's say we're trying to get up to 10 pull-ups as their base Yep. I, I always let them know that like. I want you to have 15. Mm-hmm. Because then on a bad day

Samantha Oft 30:07

Exactly.

Jennifer Pierce 30:08

You can then, no matter what, you're at an audition, you're, you're having some sort of evaluation. Yep. You can do that. Where, where would you say those benchmarks sit so people can look at measure where they are now? And, and then increase that amount. What does, what does that look like in the professional world? Because I know you've done many like benchmark evaluations.

Samantha Oft 30:30

Yeah, we have. So there's a couple of things that we're gonna look at. We'll look at grip strength, right? Because I mean, if you're hanging from a bar just to be able to do a dead hang, so two arms, straight arm, you know, be able to hang from a bar. You have to be able to hang your body weight. So we're gonna look at that just to, we're gonna, we'll take grip side to side and hopefully it adds up to your body weight. Yeah. Right? Yes. Hopefully it adds up to your body weight. Um, so that's one that's, I mean, that, that's one of the easiest things to look at. Then we can do a straight arm pull down test, or we can do a bent arm pull down test. And again, we tend to measure things in one unit of force, but units of force are units of force, right? So we tend to measure them in the smallest ones so that things are as specific as possible. But again, if you translate that over to pounds. Side to side should be their body weight.

Jennifer Pierce 31:17

Okay.

Samantha Oft 31:18

Right? Yes. So if I'm pulling 50% of my body weight in a bent arm, pull down on the right, I should be able to do 50% on the left. Yeah. Symmetry. S uh, just we're talking about just capacity to hang from the bar and, and start to pull, right? Yes. That's it. So those are the benchmarks that we'll start with. And if they can't do those things well, then we start there. Okay. We can, we can strengthen their grip, we can strengthen their ability to pull, um. It's, it's combination, but it's at its core for a pull-up specifically, and we can do this for any movement if you want. Mm-hmm. But it's lats, it's biceps and it's grip. Yeah. Now, are other things involved? Yes, of course. Other things are involved and a lot of it has to do with the ability to perform a pull-up. Just the movement itself. Yes. Because that's a motor skill too, right? So, we'll, we'll take their weight off of them and we'll show them how to do it.

Jennifer Pierce 32:05

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 32:05

And we'll tell them, Hey, pull here, squeeze here.

Jennifer Pierce 32:08

Yes. Just the foundation

Samantha Oft 32:09

of how to do the exercise. Yeah. I think a lot of people miss that too. 'cause those are, those are movement patterns that we're not usually taught how to do. Yes. Yeah. It's just, we're kind of thrown to the wolves and it's like, here's a bar. Pull your chin above it. Definitely. How, yeah. Especially if you have somebody who has EDS.

Jennifer Pierce 32:27

Mm-hmm.

Samantha Oft 32:28

They're creative artists when it come to movement. Yes. And we don't ever, we can't ever really see it because they're doing something that maybe we don't expect, but it looks just the way we would expect it to.

Jennifer Pierce 32:38

For sure.

Samantha Oft 32:39

No,

Jennifer Pierce 32:39

definitely. So if, if somebody was wanting to do, kind of going back to that number, they wanted their minimum to be 10. Mm-hmm. As a physical therapist, how much do you want them to be able to do on a bad day?

Samantha Oft 32:54

I don't know that I can answer that as a physical therapist so much as maybe a strength coach. Okay. As a strength coach. Yeah. And I am, and I'm not a strength coach, so this is maybe garbage information, but to your point, they shouldn't be able, they shouldn't, that shouldn't be their max. Yeah. If they're expecting to perform that. Yes. On any given day. Especially when they can't choose that day or cancel last minute and reschedule. Yes. So yes, there's a certain percentage you want to be able to perform above your max. Okay. To know that you're there. What's that percentage would you say, ish?

Jennifer Pierce 33:23

If, if you as a a, as a someone that helps people recover and get back on, you know, uh, in their sport.

Samantha Oft 33:32

Yep. If I wanted somebody to be able to do 10 pull-ups on a terrible day

Jennifer Pierce 33:37

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 33:37

When they were sucking wind and coming off of the flu.

Jennifer Pierce 33:39

Yes.

Samantha Oft 33:40

Then. 13 to 17 pull-ups probably. Okay.

Jennifer Pierce 33:44

Yeah, no, I, I think that's, that helps people understand that you can't just meet, we have to exceed. And I, I think that's the difference is, is how do we as athletes, how do we exceed the expectations? So on that bad day, we can still. You know, show up. Yeah. And, and, and do our art with healthy, you know, being healthy and

Samantha Oft 34:06

sustainable. It's about what percentage of your max can you do on any given day without difficulty. Right?

Jennifer Pierce 34:11

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 34:12

And you don't want to be expected to perform at a hundred percent of your max on any given day.

Jennifer Pierce 34:17

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 34:17

Because that's just not realistic from a recovery perspective. Did you go on a bender last night? Hopefully not. Do you have life stress? Are you in school? Right? Like there's a lot of factors that have nothing to do with. Our physical body.

Jennifer Pierce 34:31

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 34:31

Well, a lot to do with our physical body, but not our physical performance necessarily. That can it impact our physical performance from a mental health perspective? From a life life stress perspective, that can decrease your max on any given day. Yeah, because we're not static beings. Right, for sure. So if you want to be able to do something on any given day, it can't be a hundred percent of what you're capable of on your best day. Yes. It needs to be a percentage of that. It's gonna be a percentage of that. And so if you want that percentage to be available to you, you've, you've gotta exceed your capacity. You've gotta exceed the capacity that they're asking for, to your point. Yes. Yeah. If you want it to be predictable, you've gotta be able to do much more, because a hundred percent is not predictable on any given day.

Jennifer Pierce 35:11

Yeah, no, I think so and, and also like when artists go on tour and let's say you're hired. You are not feeling well if you can't exceed expectations. Now all of a sudden you are not able to deliver. And that may be something in many companies where it is all of a sudden you get the ultimatum and, and as much as you want to be looked as the, as, as the human and you want someone to meet you where you are, there is the reality to, there are so many shows they keep going. So yeah. You know, obviously if you're acutely sick, that's very different. It's very different. But if you made bad choices in either representing yourself as an artist in what you can do Yep. You brought an app to the table that was too hard, that is not sustainable. Right. And that you cannot exceed those expectations. That's where that is, that, that like really hard conversation. And I, I think that I truly as, uh, an instructor, I want artists to know that what you put out there. You, you, it has to be sustainable. Right. And I think you see that often with artists is a lot. Is that like one of the things that you would say, I see that these people to you,

Samantha Oft 36:12

I see that a lot. Yeah. Um, uh, the other thing I see is a workload issue having, you know, it's not necessarily capacity issue. It's a lot more to do with a workload issue where we get gig workers in who don't do regular work, like a certain number of shows per week and then they get into gig season.

Jennifer Pierce 36:30

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 36:30

Which I imagine all of your. All of your listeners know what gig season is, right? Yes. And then it's like, go, go, go, go, go. And so. It's just a mismatch in what they were doing before and what they're expected to do now. And so their workload spikes Yes. And their tendons get mad and their joints hurt.

Jennifer Pierce 36:45

Yes. And

Samantha Oft 36:46

muscles strain. And that's, you know, that's kind of how that works. So those are probably two of the most common things that lead people into my office for sure. Yeah, definitely. Workload spikes and over overpromising on capacity without the ability to deliver that. Not because they're earnest in doing it, not because they can't do the skill, but it's the sustainability of the skills over time. Because you have to be able to recover as well.

Jennifer Pierce 37:07

Yes. You have

Samantha Oft 37:08

to be able to recover and the higher, the closer you are to your max, the longer it's gonna take you to recover. Yeah. And when you're on the road or you're doing 500 shows a year, it's really hard to recover from doing that, that that percentage close to your max all the time. Definitely. Yeah. All the time.

Jennifer Pierce 37:22

And so for that, what does recovery look like? I'm so glad to for you. Yeah. 'cause we, we had talked about this, about we wish more people would value. Rest and, and schedule their rest. Yeah. So that, that can be, uh, something that is part of their their training. It's part of their training. Yeah.

Samantha Oft 37:38

A hundred percent. And that's one of those things where it's not about what you do, it's about what you don't do intentionally.

Jennifer Pierce 37:44

Yes.

Samantha Oft 37:44

Um, so recovery, to go back, let's start at the beginning. Um, recovery is not sexy. It's not the stuff that you see on Instagram, it's not, you know, infrared saunas and, you know, massages and, and that's, that's body care or self-care. Um, but it's not, that's body care. It's not truly self-care. Self-care is making sure that you have the ability to, you know, recover from like physiologically, recover from what you put your body through so that you can continue to life.

Jennifer Pierce 38:12

Yes.

Samantha Oft 38:13

Right. So, um, simply put. You need to sleep. That's, that's, yes. The pillar, right? You have to be able to get good quality sleep, which on the road is hard, especially if you're on tour. There's ways around that. There's a whole community dedicated to helping you figure out how to sleep on tour. But sleep is huge. Um, nutrition. Yeah. So getting enough calories and getting a good balance of the macro and micronutrient nutrients that you need. And hydration. Yeah. Yeah. You need to drink water. Yes. And then you need to have like strong, healthy, fulfilling relationships in your life. Most certainly. Yeah. And that's not sexy, and that's not what Instagram is about. That's not Instagram recovery. Yeah. And it's not super fun, but it's, it's, it's reality. It's the reality, right? You have to be able to physiologically recover. From the stress that you put your body under on a cellular level, you have to be able to recover from what you've done to your body, which is why you can't max every day and you have to take days off. Yeah. You, you literally get stronger and your tissue literally heals, recovers, rebuilds when you rest, when you sleep.

Jennifer Pierce 39:20

Yes.

Samantha Oft 39:20

So the time off is so important.

Jennifer Pierce 39:22

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 39:22

And it's really difficult to get that sometimes when you don't get to dictate your schedule.

Jennifer Pierce 39:27

Yes.

Samantha Oft 39:27

Especially if you're on tour or if you're on a cruise ship, sometimes you don't get to choose.

Jennifer Pierce 39:31

And

Samantha Oft 39:31

so being really intentional about structuring your work week, week over, week over week based on whatever comes at you is important because you have to recover or you won't get stronger, your tissue won't heal.

Jennifer Pierce 39:41

Yeah, no, definitely. That

Samantha Oft 39:42

happens when you're not moving.

Jennifer Pierce 39:44

Yes. Yeah. What would you, if, as a physical therapist and, and working in so many companies that dictate schedule mm-hmm. So obviously you as the artist have to be, so I, I think you have to go into contracts. Knowing what you, how you need to recover, what you need for you. Yeah. You, you know, it just, I, I think there's so much self discovery that goes into that.

Samantha Oft 40:06

Yeah.

Jennifer Pierce 40:07

But for me, I know when I was on tour and if I was asked to do something, and let's say we had been going all day, and I knew if I went all out full out in that moment that it, it was going, I was gonna be injured. I, I just, I understood where my body was at that threshold. Yeah. And I would usually go and advocate for myself and say, listen, I know we're doing this show run. What do you need from me in the show run? I, I can do a portion of it fullout, but otherwise I need to reserve the energy for this. Yep. How would you recommend in this climate, because I know sometimes. You have people that are just not bending. They don't care. They want what they want, but how would you recommend artists that get to that place where they are in an odd schedule? I think that's, that's the, the most dangerous part is you've been going all day and now we have an extra run and it's It is beyond the reasonable. Yeah, but it is the maybe necessary for It's also reality. It's it's reality. Yes. It's reality. How would you recommend an artist. How, how do you wanna see that handled? And also through the lens of seeing that happen many times and knowing what that re There's a reality.

Samantha Oft 41:15

Yeah. There is a reality, and I think aside from, and we can talk about this if you want, aside from the sleep, the nutrition, the hydration, and the fulfilling relationships, right? Yeah. Everything that you just described, the way that you would've handled that is how. It needs to be handled because you're not, the way that you just described it, you're not full on saying no. Right? Yeah. Yes. You're not saying I'm not going to do this, but what you are communicating is physical limitations with the willingness to show up and a desire for collaboration where that matters.

Jennifer Pierce 41:48

Yeah,

Samantha Oft 41:48

and that's really important. I think so. Uh, it's, you know, a lot of us wanna set boundaries and stand firm and plan our heels and dig in, and that the reality is we have a show to do.

Jennifer Pierce 41:57

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 41:57

We have a show to do. And there are going to be days where, you know, we've just gotta be there all day long. We've gotta, they're gonna be more physically demanding and if we know that, that's gonna be the case. Make sure that you have snacks so that you're getting the nutrition. Maybe it's not going to be a three course, four course meal, right? Right. Maybe it's not gonna be perfectly balanced from a micro macro perspective, but more than a bag of Skittles in your training bag Yes. Is really important. Right? Yeah. Like bring some whole fruit, bring, you know, whatever it is, some trail mix. It. Protein bars, make sure that you have enough water. Maybe it's electrolytes, but planning ahead for those longer days. Yeah. So that you don't get to a point where you're like, you throw your hands in the air and you go, I can't do this anymore. Right. Planning ahead matters a ton, and that's hard, especially when you're on the road. Yeah. That's really hard. Yes. Makes it much harder. That's an ask too, to say like, Hey look, we're doing this all day long. You come at, you come at this, you know it. Maybe it's your director with, Hey, this is, you know, I don't wanna go full out 'cause I'm worried that I'm gonna be injured. Communicating that clearly, advocating for yourself, offering a certain portion that collaboration. But then maybe it looks like, hey, we're we just got here last night at midnight, no stores were open. You're asking us to be here at eight o'clock in the morning to start rehearsals. Can somebody bring in some healthy food for us? Bananas, apples, trail mix, power bars, waters, something to make sure that you have that food.

Jennifer Pierce 43:18

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 43:19

Something

Jennifer Pierce 43:20

I also think then you feel cared for. I think when people, you know and, and often absolutely. It is easy to dig the heels and say, you know, no,

Samantha Oft 43:28

you know, I'm not gonna do this.

Jennifer Pierce 43:30

Exactly. So

Samantha Oft 43:31

I love that. Well, and I think we see a lot of that. You know, we see a lot of that in Caricature online, right? Yeah. We see a lot of that where people are acting out these hypotheticals, where they're playing characters as themselves. Right. You see it and then the camera cuts and they're talking to themselves and it's like, okay, yes, I love it. Right? Yeah, because it's helping somebody with language. Yeah. But it's also not a real life scenario, and that's in a vacuum. Whereas we're dealing with real life people on stage. Your director's stressed out, the lighting people are stressed out. The automation people are exhausted. Like everybody, these are real people in a real environment. So digging your heels in and refusing to do something probably isn't going to be great, uh, for your career long term. Right?

Jennifer Pierce 44:10

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 44:10

But being able to advocate, knowing where your limitations are, making sure that you have the things that you need that you can control, and then being able to advocate to say like, but showing up with willingness and collaboration.

Jennifer Pierce 44:22

Yeah,

Samantha Oft 44:23

here's what I am, you know, what is it that you need from me? What do you need to see full out? Can I mark this? Can I do this at 50%? Something like that. Awesome. So last question. Oh boy.

Jennifer Pierce 44:33

Oh yeah. What is something that you want all circus artists, performers, movement artists to know as a physical therapist? Like what is something that you would say if, if there's a major pivot shift that they could keep at the back of their mind, what would that be?

Samantha Oft 44:53

Oh, that's not even a fair question because there's so many of those things. Um. Can I pick two? Yes. Okay. We've talked about them. Most of this, this, you know, most of our time together. One is that probably first and foremost, your body heals when you're sleeping or when you're not moving. When you're resting, that's when your body heals. So we've got people who are so motivated and they're ready to get to the next level, and they don't wanna take days off because it feels like it's a waste of time. Literally, it's not. It's necessary. You won't achieve the strength that you're looking for or the recovery that you need if you don't rest.

Jennifer Pierce 45:33

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 45:34

That's not to say that you have to rest all the time, because we all know that's not gonna work either. Yes. But you can't just burn your body out. You can't burn it down. And strength training is not your enemy.

Jennifer Pierce 45:44

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 45:44

It's the fountain of youth. It's what's gonna keep you performing for a long time. But it does need to be programmed well by somebody who knows what they're doing. Um, progressive overload is a fun thing to say, but it's in reality, it's not an easy thing to achieve.

Jennifer Pierce 45:57

Yeah.

Samantha Oft 45:58

Because especially if you've got somebody on torque, because levels of recovery go up and down every day. Yes. So you have to meet your body where it's at on any given day.

Jennifer Pierce 46:05

I love that. Yay. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing all of your knowledge. And Of course, of course. It just, um, I, I think having these conversations just really changes how people approach their art and as an athlete and, and just makes everyone live healthier and, um, just better lives. We

Samantha Oft 46:27

need more art in

Jennifer Pierce 46:28

the

Samantha Oft 46:28

world. We do, especially right now.

Jennifer Pierce 46:31

Yes. And

Samantha Oft 46:31

so we need our artists healthy. Definitely. Thank you so much for the conversation today. Absolutely. My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Jennifer Pierce 46:37

Thank you so much for listening today. I'd love to hear what you're navigating right now and what topics you want me to cover because this podcast is all about serving you and helping our community thrive. You can find me on Instagram at the Artist Behind the Art, also big announcement. I've been working on some artist mentorships and I'm gonna be kicking it off with a free three day mentorship that's all about strengthening your submission materials. And I can't wait to get to know more about you. Be sure to follow and like RTE Act development on Instagram. That is A-R-E-T-E ACT development. I want to be able to get all of the details to you as soon as they're available. Alright, guys, remember you already have what it takes. The question is, are you going to prove it to yourself? Until next time, show up big and own the stage.