SPEAKER_01: We're starting a new Sunday school series.
SPEAKER_01: We're thinking about baptism for the next three weeks.
SPEAKER_01: So I'm going to read a couple of verses from Matthew's gospel and then pray for us.
SPEAKER_01: So from Matthew 3 and then Matthew 28.
SPEAKER_01: Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John to be baptized by him.
SPEAKER_01: And Jesus said, Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.
SPEAKER_01: So, God our Father, we pray for our time together this morning, thanking you for all of your goodness to us.
SPEAKER_01: We thank you that this morning, like every morning, we gather by your goodness and power and through the gospel, thank you that you give to us signs and seals of the gospel for the strengthening of our faith, the encouragement of our hearts.
SPEAKER_01: Please would you be our teacher?
SPEAKER_01: And we ask that for Jesus' name's sake.
SPEAKER_01: Amen.
SPEAKER_01: So what is the point of baptism?
SPEAKER_01: Some people don't think that water baptism matters very much.
SPEAKER_01: Some folk they find it to be a bit of a distraction or an empty religious ceremony or a cause of unnecessary division among Christians.
SPEAKER_01: But Jesus was baptized, he commanded his disciples to baptize.
SPEAKER_01: So actually, real Bible Christianity requires baptism for Jesus people.
SPEAKER_01: And we're going to spend three sessions thinking over this together.
SPEAKER_01: So today, what is the point of baptism?
SPEAKER_01: God willing, next week, how important is the mode of baptism?
SPEAKER_01: You know, how much water administered in what way and what does that convey?
SPEAKER_01: And then thirdly, who should be baptised?
SPEAKER_01: Only adults?
SPEAKER_01: Should we baptise children, etc.
SPEAKER_01: We're not going to focus on controversy, though we'll touch on controversial questions.
SPEAKER_01: And our aim is simply to grow our appreciation of baptism and also to improve our baptism.
SPEAKER_01: Now that's an old phrase that old Christians used to use.
SPEAKER_01: It means to actually use our own baptism in such a way that we grow as disciples of Jesus.
SPEAKER_01: You could think of baptism as being like a really, really good painting.
SPEAKER_01: You can stare at a really good painting for hours, and the more you look, the more you see.
SPEAKER_01: The artist in a good painting has paid so much attention to detail, he's so creative in doing so many different things, deliberately and intentionally.
SPEAKER_01: And when we come to baptism, well, the sign of baptism is from God.
SPEAKER_01: It's not a human artist.
SPEAKER_01: And so all that is conveyed in baptism, well, it is very, very rich.
SPEAKER_01: So we're not going to go away from uh three Sunday school sessions thinking I now fully understand baptism.
SPEAKER_01: You know, I've got it cleared up.
SPEAKER_01: But I hope you'll go away thinking, I've got a I've got a deeper and a clearer and a more biblical view into the wonder of baptism, and my appreciation for this gift has grown, and I want to make use of it, and I want to come back to it, as it were, and to continually keep looking at it in the Bible.
SPEAKER_01: Now, lots of what I'm going to be teaching over these next three weeks, I'm repurposing some material from Simon R.
SPEAKER_01: Scott, Minister at All Nations Ilford, and I'm really grateful to him.
SPEAKER_01: Let's dive straight in.
SPEAKER_01: So we're thinking our big thing, what is the point of water baptism?
SPEAKER_01: So, first big heading on the handout baptism is a sign and a seal of God's covenant.
SPEAKER_01: So the God of the Bible, he sets up relationships with people via a covenant.
SPEAKER_01: So he joins himself to people via a covenant, of which the nearest human analogy is probably a marriage covenant.
SPEAKER_01: And in the Bible, when God makes a covenant, he gives a sign to go along with it.
SPEAKER_01: Think about what a sign is, you know, street sign, for example.
SPEAKER_01: It's a message in pictures, not in words.
SPEAKER_01: Uh maybe it's a street sign, or maybe we shake hands with someone.
SPEAKER_01: That is a sign, it conveys a message.
SPEAKER_01: Or you wag your finger at someone.
SPEAKER_01: It's a sign, it conveys a message, and actually conveys a relational message.
SPEAKER_01: And God gives covenant signs all the way through the Bible.
SPEAKER_01: So, for example, the covenant that God makes with Noah.
SPEAKER_01: So I'm just going to read a couple of verses from Genesis 9.
SPEAKER_01: You can look if you want, or just listen to these first few verses.
SPEAKER_01: So, Genesis 9, verses 11 to 13, the Lord says, I establish my covenant with you, that never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the flood, and never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth.
SPEAKER_01: And God said, This is the sign of the covenant that I make between me and you, and every living creature that is with you for all future generations.
SPEAKER_01: I have set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be a sign of the covenants between me and the earth.
SPEAKER_01: So the Lord makes a covenant with Noah and with all humanity, and indeed with the whole of creation in Noah, and he gives a sign, a sign of that relationship, that covenant relationship.
SPEAKER_01: It's a common grace sign of God's patience with sinful humanity.
SPEAKER_01: Then the covenant with Abraham, the first saving covenant.
SPEAKER_01: So the Lord comes to Abraham and he says, Genesis 17, I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant.
SPEAKER_01: And he says, This is my covenant, which you shall keep between me and you and your offspring after you, every male among you shall be circumcised.
SPEAKER_01: Hence the scissors.
SPEAKER_01: Now, this is the first saving covenant of the Bible.
SPEAKER_01: There is a sign, circumcision.
SPEAKER_01: There is a cutting off that is required of the Lord's people.
SPEAKER_01: And a man would carry this sign upon his body for the rest of his life.
SPEAKER_01: It's not a kind of one and done and forget about it.
SPEAKER_01: You bear this sign forever.
SPEAKER_01: The Mosaic covenant.
SPEAKER_01: Here we're talking about the Passover.
SPEAKER_01: So Exodus 12 and verse 3.
SPEAKER_01: Tell all the congregation of Israel that on the tenth day of this month every man shall take a lamb according to their houses, a lamb for a household.
SPEAKER_01: And then verse 13.
SPEAKER_01: The blood, you slaughter the lion, slaughter the lamb, blood on the lintel.
SPEAKER_01: The blood shall be a sign for you on the houses where you are, and when I see the blood, I will pass over you.
SPEAKER_01: So the Passover was part of the covenant relationship between God and Moses and the people in Moses.
SPEAKER_01: It was a sign of that covenant.
SPEAKER_01: Lamb dies, blood on doorpost, lamb eaten, and everyone in the household is saved from the judgment of God.
SPEAKER_01: Then we come to the New Testament and the New Covenant.
SPEAKER_01: And in the New Testament, Jesus gives two signs and seals of the covenant.
SPEAKER_01: So please look, would you at Matthew 28, first of all.
SPEAKER_01: So if you could open up Matthew chapter 28.
SPEAKER_01: So here is the risen Jesus, the one to whom all authority in heaven and on earth has been given.
SPEAKER_01: And he says, Matthew 28, 19, go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.
SPEAKER_01: And if you just flick on, please, to 1 Corinthians chapter 11, the other sign of the new covenant given by Christ.
SPEAKER_01: Well, the Lord's Supper.
SPEAKER_01: So 1 Corinthians 11 and verse 23.
SPEAKER_01: And when he'd given thanks, he broke it and said, This is my body which is for you.
SPEAKER_01: Do this in remembrance of me.
SPEAKER_01: In the same way also he took the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood.
SPEAKER_01: Do this as often as you drink it in remembrance of me.
SPEAKER_01: So here is Christ the King, the head and king of the church.
SPEAKER_01: He commands his disciples how the whole of the church is to function, and he gives these signs to his people.
SPEAKER_01: Baptism and the supper.
SPEAKER_01: Just a couple of things to remember.
SPEAKER_01: All of those signs we've just looked at, they are connected to God's covenant.
SPEAKER_01: They're connected to the covenant relation between God and his people.
SPEAKER_01: We can't take them out of that context.
SPEAKER_01: They are given graciously because God knows that we need them.
SPEAKER_01: So the Lord comes to us with words, you know, words of promise and invitation and command, but he also comes with signs, things for us to see and touch and taste.
SPEAKER_01: He knows what we are like.
SPEAKER_01: We need such things.
SPEAKER_01: Those covenants with Abraham and Moses and the new covenant in Christ, they are essentially one covenant.
SPEAKER_01: In the New Testament, baptism functions a little bit like circumcision and the Lord's Supper, a little bit like Passover.
SPEAKER_01: Those are how those signs relate to each other and to the Lord.
SPEAKER_01: So these signs, they're given by God sort of next next bit of our trying to understand what is the point of baptism.
SPEAKER_01: They are given as signs of covenant belonging.
SPEAKER_01: Now to join some gangs, you have to have an initiation ceremony.
SPEAKER_01: Have you seen some of those photographs of the men incarcerated either in the United States or now down in South America who come from some of these terrifying drug gangs, and as part of their initiation ceremony, tattoos, you know, whole body tattoos, or the yakuza in Japan, you have to lose a finger.
SPEAKER_01: Well, the church is a bit like a gang.
SPEAKER_01: Covenant signs are marks of belonging, both to the Lord and to the visible church.
SPEAKER_01: They're marks of membership.
SPEAKER_01: And in the New Testament, baptism marks entrance to the church.
SPEAKER_01: So Paul says 1 Corinthians 12, 13, for in one spirit we were all baptized into one body.
SPEAKER_01: So into the church.
SPEAKER_01: So who are church members?
SPEAKER_01: Most basically it is those who are baptized.
SPEAKER_01: It's the mark of membership.
SPEAKER_01: Think about the words used at baptism from Matthew 28.
SPEAKER_01: You have the name of God put upon you, the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_01: And it's serious, therefore, in the Old Testament, someone who refused to be circumcised was to be cut off from God's people.
SPEAKER_01: No uncircumcised person was allowed to eat the Passover meal.
SPEAKER_01: So it matters actually that Christian people are baptized.
SPEAKER_01: Christian people should be baptized people.
SPEAKER_01: It's not complicated, it's not optional actually.
SPEAKER_01: Christian people are meant to have that sign of covenant belonging.
SPEAKER_01: And it is a wonderfully gracious thing that we should be given this picture, this sign of gospel love.
SPEAKER_01: Now we're going to dig deeply into how baptism gives us the gospel a little bit today, much more next week, God willing.
SPEAKER_01: But I want us to see, too, that these signs of the covenant, they're not just signs, they are also seals.
SPEAKER_01: Now, to flip over the handout, second side.
SPEAKER_01: They are seals given by God to strengthen faith.
SPEAKER_01: I wonder if you have at home, maybe in a box file or a filing cabinet, some old special document or certificate with a seal on it.
SPEAKER_01: I think we've still got one or two, you know, in this age of digital signatures and all that.
SPEAKER_01: It's passing away, sadly.
SPEAKER_01: There's a document, there are words on it, there'll be a signature at the bottom, but there'll also be a big blob of sealed wax, usually red.
SPEAKER_01: And the point of the seal is it confirms to you that what you read is true, and this really does come to you from the hand of the person who signed it.
SPEAKER_01: That's the point of a seal.
SPEAKER_01: Uh this week, actually, seal, a seal was in the in the newspapers because uh the king has just made his new great seal, the great seal of England, which is affixed to every uh law that is passed in Parliament.
SPEAKER_01: And the Apostle Paul writes in Romans 4 verse 11, speaking of Abraham, he received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith.
SPEAKER_01: And here's the point baptism and the Lord's Supper for us, they are like tools used by God the Holy Spirit to strengthen our faith in Jesus.
SPEAKER_01: They work like the Bible does in the Holy Spirit's hands.
SPEAKER_01: So think what the Holy Spirit does with the Bible in your life and in the life of the church.
SPEAKER_01: The Holy Spirit wields his word, the Bible, for the strengthening of our faith.
SPEAKER_01: And in the same way, the Holy Spirit uses baptism and the Lord's Supper to do good to us and to help us both to remember and to feel that we belong to Jesus, and that all of the blessings of the covenant really are ours, and he knows that we need that.
SPEAKER_01: Now, we're gonna look in more detail at what exactly is shown to us, what is portrayed to us in the sign and seal of baptism, mainly next week.
SPEAKER_01: And it's a really rich and beautiful picture, and we're gonna think about what is the nature of the belonging relationship, the covenant relationship between the Lord and the person who receives the sign of baptism.
SPEAKER_01: And we're gonna spend a little bit of time on that now, so the nature of the relationship.
SPEAKER_01: And the main thing I want us to appreciate is this, and this is our second big heading.
SPEAKER_01: Baptism is a gift from God to us.
SPEAKER_01: I asked you at the start just to talk with uh a neighbour about who baptized you.
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what you said, um, who baptized you, what you talked about.
SPEAKER_01: Here is an answer I am confident that no one gave.
SPEAKER_01: I know that none of you would have said, if you're a baptized person, I baptized myself.
SPEAKER_01: No one would have said that.
SPEAKER_01: Um, because it's impossible.
SPEAKER_01: You cannot uh baptize yourself, and that's actually very important.
SPEAKER_01: Uh it's the difference it's the difference between active and passive.
SPEAKER_01: Uh if you're active, you're the one doing something.
SPEAKER_01: So for example, Humpty Dumpty pushed.
SPEAKER_01: If you're passive, something is being done to you.
SPEAKER_01: Humpty Dumpty was pushed.
SPEAKER_01: It's actually a big difference in meaning.
SPEAKER_01: Um, I fed.
SPEAKER_01: I was fed.
SPEAKER_01: It's different, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01: Baptism is always something in which we are passive, not active.
SPEAKER_01: We receive baptism.
SPEAKER_01: It's done to us, not by us.
SPEAKER_01: And that was even true of the Lord Jesus when he went down to the Jordan and was baptized by John.
SPEAKER_01: So who baptizes?
SPEAKER_01: John did.
SPEAKER_01: And this is something that Christian people, I think we often get confused about.
SPEAKER_01: We tend to think that baptism is something that we do.
SPEAKER_01: And I've got two diagrams there to try and show these two different ways of thinking about baptism.
SPEAKER_01: So, diagram one on the left, and this is often what we think.
SPEAKER_01: God saves me, yes, that's the green arrow.
SPEAKER_01: But what is baptism?
SPEAKER_01: Baptism is my response to God.
SPEAKER_01: I am committing myself to God, and this is the main thing that is going on in baptism.
SPEAKER_01: I am showing, first and foremost, that I have chosen God and I'm taking him seriously.
SPEAKER_01: So the mindset here is chiefly baptism is something that I do.
SPEAKER_01: Diagram two.
SPEAKER_01: And I think this is what the Bible says.
SPEAKER_01: This shows baptism as something that God does to me.
SPEAKER_01: Yes, most certainly, I must commit myself to God, but that is not what is chiefly in view here.
SPEAKER_01: Now, why is that important?
SPEAKER_01: If we baptized ourselves, what would the sign be saying?
SPEAKER_01: It would essentially be saying that we washed ourselves, that in our salvation we are the doers.
SPEAKER_01: Almost that we're saved by what we do, and that's wrong.
SPEAKER_01: Whereas diagram two says, in picture form, baptism says, God washed us.
SPEAKER_01: The sign is pointing to God and his salvation, not to me and my response.
SPEAKER_01: And you see, there needs to be a matchup, doesn't there, between the picture and the gospel message that the picture is conveying.
SPEAKER_01: And the Bible says things like Titus 3 verse 5, He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to His own mercy by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_01: So it's a gospel sign.
SPEAKER_01: The sign is from God to us, pointing to what God has done, not what we do.
SPEAKER_01: And that is the shape of the gospel.
SPEAKER_01: Now, just by way of contrast, uh I've stuck on the handout, how the largest uh Christian denomination in the US uh defines baptism.
SPEAKER_01: So that's from the Southern Baptist Faith and Message.
SPEAKER_01: They would say that Christian baptism is an act of obedience, and this is the key bit, symbolizing the believer's faith.
SPEAKER_01: And I hope you can see why that's actually wrong.
SPEAKER_01: In their understanding, are you active or are you passive?
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's active.
SPEAKER_01: Uh they've turned baptism into a sign about what you are doing, a sign of obedience rather than a gracious gift from God to which you are called to respond.
SPEAKER_01: This is actually quite an important difference.
SPEAKER_01: Uh, sometimes folk think that the you know the chief disagreement among Christians about baptism boils down to who should be baptized.
SPEAKER_01: Potentially, there's actually something else uh going on, a different understanding of what baptism actually is.
SPEAKER_01: So it's not a sign of your faith, it's about what Jesus has done for you.
SPEAKER_01: It's not about what you have done or are going to do for him.
SPEAKER_01: So it's a sign that's meant to point to him, not towards me.
SPEAKER_01: So we're not meant to take the signpost that God has given us and sort of turn it around.
SPEAKER_01: There was a sign down the Doddinghurst Road that was like that a few months back on that really awful corner.
SPEAKER_01: And it's pointing to the right.
SPEAKER_01: You want it to point to the right, don't you?
SPEAKER_01: And some rat bag had come along and actually turned it around and pointed it towards the ditch.
SPEAKER_01: You don't want to do that with the signs that God has given us.
SPEAKER_01: If we do that with baptism, we actually make baptism into a burden.
SPEAKER_01: It's meant to be a delight, it's meant to be a bur, it is not meant to be a burden.
SPEAKER_01: Now, third key point, and this does very much follow on.
SPEAKER_01: The invisible blessings of baptism are only obtained by faith.
SPEAKER_01: There is a necessity for faith when we think about baptism, but we need to put it in the right place.
SPEAKER_01: Baptism has got uh two parts to it.
SPEAKER_01: You could call them an inward part, an invisible part, and an outward and a visible part.
SPEAKER_01: So, for example, uh Mark 1, there's John the Baptist, uh, he's baptizing people in the River Jordan, preparing the way for Jesus.
SPEAKER_01: This is outward baptism.
SPEAKER_01: A person is baptized with water, their body gets wet and it's visible.
SPEAKER_01: You can see it with your eyes.
SPEAKER_01: And John promises that Jesus, when he comes, will do something deeper and more important.
SPEAKER_01: He will baptize on the inside with his Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_01: That is inward baptism, spirit baptism.
SPEAKER_01: It's what uh Paul is talking about in Titus 3.
SPEAKER_01: The washing of regeneration, the new birth, the washing of renewal by the Holy Spirit who is poured upon us richly.
SPEAKER_01: That's the inward and the invisible baptism.
SPEAKER_01: But what might be a surprise is that the Bible connects the inward and the outward aspects of baptism.
SPEAKER_01: They are not two different and separate baptisms, they're connected like the two sides of the same coin.
SPEAKER_01: You can and must distinguish them, but you cannot separate them.
SPEAKER_01: And I'll try and show you what I mean by looking at a couple of Bible verses.
SPEAKER_01: So, Acts 22, 16.
SPEAKER_01: This is uh this is uh Ananias as he was talking to Paul.
SPEAKER_01: This is him sort of recounting the story of his conversion.
SPEAKER_01: And Ananias says to him, And now, why do you wait?
SPEAKER_01: Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.
SPEAKER_01: Now stop and think about that verse for a minute.
SPEAKER_01: If we are evangelical Christians, we might find that quite an awkward verse.
SPEAKER_01: But Ananias, don't you mean rise and be baptized as a picture of sins being washed away, or rise and be baptized because your sins have been washed away.
SPEAKER_01: But that's not actually what the Bible says.
SPEAKER_01: It connects the outward baptism with the inward baptism very closely in that verse.
SPEAKER_01: Or uh even more strikingly in 1 Peter 3.21, Peter says, baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you.
SPEAKER_01: So he's comparing Christian baptism to uh to the flood when Noah and his family were brought safely through the water.
SPEAKER_01: And he says, baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you.
SPEAKER_01: Now, hold on, hang on, Peter, a minute.
SPEAKER_01: That's a bit strong.
SPEAKER_01: Baptism is a picture of salvation, don't you mean?
SPEAKER_01: But he actually says baptism saves you.
SPEAKER_01: He goes on to clarify, not as the removal of dirt from your body, but as an appeal to God for a good conscience.
SPEAKER_01: So in those couple of verses, he he refers to both parts of baptism, but he doesn't divide them.
SPEAKER_01: He doesn't divide the water and the spirit.
SPEAKER_01: So, in a sense, you could say baptism does what it says on the tin.
SPEAKER_01: There are some other scriptures too, which we won't look at right now.
SPEAKER_01: Now, in trying to understand this and trying to wrap our heads around this, uh, it would be helpful, I think, to see what different Christian groups have done with baptism.
SPEAKER_01: So, Roman Catholicism, uh very much in the news at the minute, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01: Popes, ceremonies, etc.
SPEAKER_01: Roman Catholics do not distinguish outward and inward baptism.
SPEAKER_01: They say that outward water baptism automatically and always does inward baptism.
SPEAKER_01: And that's just very simply wrong.
SPEAKER_01: Evangelicals, on the other hand, tend to separate outward and inward baptism.
SPEAKER_01: It is a sign, but it is, if you like, an empty sign.
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't come with any power.
SPEAKER_01: Uh it's a bit like they've lost the other half of the sign.
SPEAKER_01: Uh, most signs that we encounter day to day, I suppose, are a bit like that.
SPEAKER_01: They don't have power built into them and they're not personal.
SPEAKER_01: It's like a you know, a 30 mile an hour uh speed limit sign.
SPEAKER_01: It's not a it's not a personal communication, it doesn't have actual power built into it.
SPEAKER_01: It's really just a fact.
SPEAKER_01: The Reformed tradition distinguishes outward and inward baptism, but does not separate them.
SPEAKER_01: So, in other words, the Holy Spirit, he really does use this sign, the water of baptism, to seal the gospel to us.
SPEAKER_01: It's not an empty sign, uh, it's a full sign.
SPEAKER_01: It's loaded, if you like, by the Holy Spirit in order to seal that washing to us.
SPEAKER_01: And so that sign and seal, if you're a baptised person, it is for you.
SPEAKER_01: Uh it is for you and for your ongoing goods.
SPEAKER_01: Therefore, final heading of that page, we are to receive our baptism with faith and continue to do so.
SPEAKER_01: The Westminster Shelter Catechism, uh, question 91, it puts it really helpfully.
SPEAKER_01: How do the sacraments, so that's the kind of catchal word for signs and seals, so how do the sacraments become effectual means of salvation?
SPEAKER_01: Answer.
SPEAKER_01: The sacraments become effectual means of salvation, not from any virtue in them or in him that doth administer them, so that's trying to whack the Roman Catholic heresy on the head, but only by the blessing of Christ and the working of his spirit in them that by faith receive them.
SPEAKER_01: So if you believe the promise of your baptism, you will be washed.
SPEAKER_01: If you reject the promise of your baptism, there is no washing.
SPEAKER_01: And we need to appreciate this is meant to last a lifetime.
SPEAKER_01: Our entire Christian life is meant to be lived beneath this sign and seal of God's covenant.
SPEAKER_01: It's always with us, our baptism.
SPEAKER_01: It's not something like uh doing your GCSEs, you sort of tick it, done.
SPEAKER_01: Completely irrelevant.
SPEAKER_01: You walk away, it really doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_01: Practically, many of us, I think that's how we relate to our baptism.
SPEAKER_01: But the whole Christian life is actually meant to be an unpacking of our baptism.
SPEAKER_01: So in Romans 6, when Paul is arguing for holy living, uh he does so on the basis of our baptism.
SPEAKER_01: So when we're thinking about holiness, becoming more like Jesus, we are to recall our baptism.
SPEAKER_01: In Mark chapter 1, John the Baptist connects baptism and confession of sins.
SPEAKER_01: So when we are confessing, when we are confessing our sins either privately or corporately, we're actually to direct our hearts and minds to our baptisms.
SPEAKER_01: You never move on from your baptism.
SPEAKER_01: It's one reason, I think, why uh a person can only be baptized or needs to be only baptized once.
SPEAKER_01: Your baptism doesn't need repeating or topping up.
SPEAKER_01: You have a full and sufficient Savior.
SPEAKER_01: You are a baptized man or woman, boy or girl, and the Holy Spirit can and will continue to use that in your life for your good and faith and strengthening.
SPEAKER_01: Over the last couple of years, I've been I've been trying to realize and discipline myself to say of myself, not I have been baptized, but I am baptized.
SPEAKER_01: It's a massive difference.
SPEAKER_01: I am baptized.
SPEAKER_01: It's what Martin Luther used to say of himself when he's struggling with sin or uh the devil and temptation.
SPEAKER_01: I am a baptized man.
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter if you can't remember your baptism.
SPEAKER_01: Uh plenty of us, frankly, can't remember much about oh.
SPEAKER_01: Wedding days.
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean we are not married.
SPEAKER_01: I can't remember my baptism.
SPEAKER_01: For baptism to work in the way that God intends, we need simply to understand that sign and seal which He gives us and receive it.
SPEAKER_01: Receive it with faith.
SPEAKER_01: Now I'm gonna I'm gonna stop there.
SPEAKER_01: Maybe take three minutes just to talk to a neighbour.
SPEAKER_01: Maybe just share something that's uh struck you, or maybe a question you've got, and then we'll uh take some questions together.
SPEAKER_01: But discuss literally no more than three minutes.
SPEAKER_01: Go for it.
SPEAKER_07: Does anyone have a question that they would like to ask?
SPEAKER_00: Asking for a friend.
SPEAKER_00: Let's say someone was baptized as a baby on the Catholicism, which we've already told is incorrect.
SPEAKER_00: Let's say someone later then was baptized under Bagram 1, which is also not correct.
SPEAKER_00: Where does that lead one?
SPEAKER_01: Wonderfully, the the the sign of baptism is true and valid, whatever our understanding of it is.
SPEAKER_01: If we want to reform and make as biblical and true as possible what we do with our baptism, there might be many sorts of ways we become baptized that are less than ideal.
SPEAKER_01: So very specifically, and this it is worth addressing this because lots of folk have been baptized, for example, in the Roman Catholic Church.
SPEAKER_01: So the key thing about baptism, uh you're baptized with water and in the triune name, in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_01: Um very sadly, so much that goes around that in the Roman Catholic Church is hiding Christ, it's obscuring Christ in many different ways.
SPEAKER_01: But the but yeah, the Reformed tradition almost uniformly would say, look, um, that baptism is valid.
SPEAKER_01: You know, praise God that the person then finds himself into a Protestant church or a Bible church, and then you I guess you want to understand your baptism biblically, but you are baptized.
SPEAKER_01: Similarly, lots of us have been baptized at different ages or stages.
SPEAKER_01: There might be things about that that we come we come now to realise, well, actually, maybe biblically, something was a bit off there, but if you're baptized by water in the triune, you are baptized.
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's this is the whole point.
SPEAKER_01: It's not about us getting something absolutely perfect.
SPEAKER_01: We've got a gracious God who signs the gospel to us and he seals the gospel to us.
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I hope that's clear and encouraging.
SPEAKER_01: Um Natalie.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I just want to understand a little bit more about this what different Christian groups go with baptism and evangelicals.
SPEAKER_05: Because I'm not sure I quite agree with it being an empty sign, I've got high in an evangelical church.
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
SPEAKER_05: I'd certainly recognise it as a spiritual element, and also the spiritual attack can go with people getting baptized.
SPEAKER_05: So I don't know, I just wonder if it feels a bit inflammatory between all evangelicals, baptism, and then sign.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's probably that's probably fair.
SPEAKER_01: Um we all come at this with experience.
SPEAKER_01: We can't sort of divorce our own personal experience from coming to the scriptures ever.
SPEAKER_01: Um I suppose I've I'm just conscious, my my experience, and possibly even ways I've go back a number of years, I've thought about baptism myself, and very keen to say what baptism is not.
SPEAKER_01: And we want to see, we're we want to emphasize the water of baptism is not magical.
SPEAKER_01: We're desperate to not be Catholic.
SPEAKER_01: Um, because we we don't want to mislead people into thinking that actually you can do something to save you.
SPEAKER_01: Because you can't.
SPEAKER_01: Um but I've also I'm also aware that that sometimes I think there is something we've we've we've missed out on.
SPEAKER_01: I think particularly the idea that you you can and should actually use your baptism.
SPEAKER_01: That's something that's actually over the last two, three, four years, that's very new to me.
SPEAKER_01: You're in you're when you read the the old guys, the Puritans, they talk about improving your baptism.
SPEAKER_01: You never kind of left it behind, and this is a daily part of your discipleship.
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, fair point, that might that might be unnecessarily polarized, but might help us think clearly uh about it as well.
SPEAKER_01: Go on, Kush, and then uh Caroline.
SPEAKER_02: If I say that baptism is an act of obedience, then it is not me that's being baptized.
SPEAKER_02: I am simply obeying an instruction.
SPEAKER_02: I am not baptizing myself, I am not carrying out an instruction other than being obedient.
SPEAKER_01: And the Lord tells us to get baptized, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_02: Instruction.
SPEAKER_01: It is a command to the church, everywhere and all times, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_01: It is 100%.
unknown: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: So I guess I guess you're one encouragement from that, you sort of take it seriously.
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: Isn't Chris saying that this is correct?
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what so I didn't think that was what what Chris was saying.
SPEAKER_06: Maybe it's not.
SPEAKER_06: Sorry, Chris, I didn't know.
SPEAKER_01: Go on.
SPEAKER_02: Um the point I'm I'm making is that it is not something that I do.
SPEAKER_02: It is obedience, it is an instruction given to me by God.
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
SPEAKER_02: That's the point I need to do.
SPEAKER_06: Yes, so as it's a diagram one here, as it's other Baptist things.
SPEAKER_06: In some ways, this is this is good.
SPEAKER_06: But you were saying it wrong.
SPEAKER_01: I am.
SPEAKER_01: I think I think the clue is I think the clue is the word is.
SPEAKER_01: So Christian word, a Christian baptism is a symbol of a believer's faith.
SPEAKER_01: I'm saying biblically it is not a symbol of the believer's faith.
SPEAKER_01: It requires a believer's faith.
SPEAKER_01: It's not the same thing.
SPEAKER_01: And I actually think just not just biblically and theologically but pastorally, a huge difference between that.
SPEAKER_01: Here is God doing something for me.
SPEAKER_01: Now I must respond to Him.
SPEAKER_01: Um but it's that's not what baptism is, because it's it's water, it's washing.
SPEAKER_01: And we'll think about a little bit more about that next week.
SPEAKER_03: But the act of obedience bit for him is is a fair point.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, as in Christ commands it.
SPEAKER_03: So so in that statement, some of the baptism thing, it says it's an act of obedience, so that is that is right.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_06: I feel like you're saying this is both right and wrong, or in one go.
SPEAKER_01: No, I'm saying I'm saying it's so does Christ command baptism?
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
SPEAKER_01: Should Christians be baptized as a matter of obedience?
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
SPEAKER_01: What is baptism?
SPEAKER_01: Is baptism a sign of faith?
SPEAKER_01: No, it is not a sign of faith.
SPEAKER_01: Baptism is a sign of the gospel.
SPEAKER_06: It's quite subtle, yeah.
SPEAKER_01: But it's actually it's actually massive.
SPEAKER_06: Yes, yes, yes, yes, but in in the wording, I don't like it.
SPEAKER_06: It's quite easy to yeah.
SPEAKER_01: It is it is subtle, and then you know, think about lots of things in church history.
SPEAKER_01: Um homo usios, homoi usios.
SPEAKER_01: Christ is God, Christ is not God.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, massive, one letter, the alphabet.
SPEAKER_01: Um so sometimes it really matters to get things right.
SPEAKER_01: Go on a bit.
SPEAKER_04: It acts a bit like forgiveness, we're told to forgive, but we in our own selves don't always have, if ever, the actual power to do that, and yet when we do a mess of obedience to Christ, he's the one who does the empowering to do the obedient thing because it's a command, but the forgiving is the God's thing.
SPEAKER_04: Well, I think so.
SPEAKER_01: I think look, I think what you put your finger on is helpful.
SPEAKER_01: So, in other words, our responding to the Lord when we come to Him in repentance and faith on day one of the Christian life or the millionth day of the Christian life, in that we are we are active, we are doing something, but we are only ever doing that in union with Christ and by the power of the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_01: We do not have it in ourselves to repent and believe.
SPEAKER_01: We are commanded to repent and believe.
SPEAKER_01: Um, so he he enables by his Holy Spirit, he gives faith.
SPEAKER_01: You know, Ephesians 2.8, it's a gift, faith.
SPEAKER_01: Uh he enables us to continue believing and you know, fighting the fight of faith.
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_01: So I guess what we're trying to do is both in our minds but also in our hearts, think well, what is the shape of the gospel?
SPEAKER_01: What does God do?
SPEAKER_01: How do I respond?
SPEAKER_01: Where does the power for that come from?
SPEAKER_01: So that's I guess what we're trying to do in that.
SPEAKER_01: I think we ought to stop.
SPEAKER_01: Let me pray.
SPEAKER_01: Heavenly Father, we do want to uh understand you and your word and your ways uh better.
SPEAKER_01: We thank you for uh your graciousness.
SPEAKER_01: And thank you that you reach out to and bind yourself to people who have no right to being in covenant relation with you.
SPEAKER_01: And we thank you for that uh gracious washing and indwelling.
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for your fatherly love.
SPEAKER_01: Help us to better understand and to feel these things for our uh joy, our gladness, for our holiness.
SPEAKER_01: Can we ask that for Jesus' name's sake?
SPEAKER_01: Amen.