SPEAKER_01: Here's the plan for this morning.
SPEAKER_01: We're going to uh answer some questions.
SPEAKER_01: So, this last term and the term before, we've been working through this course called Jesus Saves, but how?
SPEAKER_01: On the front of the handout, there you'll see what we've covered thus far, our need of salvation.
SPEAKER_01: Then we thought about salvation accomplished, all that the Lord Jesus Christ did, and then we thought about salvation applied.
SPEAKER_01: How is it that a Christian benefits from what Jesus has done?
SPEAKER_01: And I've listed the topics that we have worked through, the different dimensions of our salvation in Christ.
SPEAKER_01: That last item there, uh, glorification, it says in small print at a future date.
SPEAKER_01: That's in two senses at a future date.
SPEAKER_01: We actually haven't covered that yet, so we will cover glorification at a future date.
SPEAKER_01: Probably at the end of term.
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and obviously it is at a future date.
SPEAKER_01: So there we go.
SPEAKER_01: Shall I pray?
SPEAKER_01: Let's pray.
SPEAKER_01: Father in heaven, uh, you give us in the Lord Jesus Christ so great a salvation, and we bless you for it and for him.
SPEAKER_01: Now we thank you for one another, we thank you for uh the church.
SPEAKER_01: Thank you that she is at the centre of your salvation purposes, that when you give us to Christ, you also give us to one another, and you call us to covenant together and serve and bless each other.
SPEAKER_01: So we pray for our time together now.
SPEAKER_01: Uh we pray for uh truth to be spoken in love, we pray that you would uh grow our minds, enlarge our hearts, and we ask that for Jesus' name's sake.
SPEAKER_01: Amen.
SPEAKER_01: Um, thank you to some different folks who sent in some questions.
SPEAKER_01: We will work through these questions, and if we've got time, we'll see if anything else crops up.
SPEAKER_01: Is that alright?
unknown: Good.
SPEAKER_01: That was a rhetorical question, really.
SPEAKER_01: I don't have a I don't have a plan B if there is violent objection.
SPEAKER_01: So there we go.
SPEAKER_01: Good.
SPEAKER_01: So let's think about uh the atonement.
SPEAKER_01: So atonement, uh, how it is that God made sinful people at one with him uh through the cross of Christ.
SPEAKER_01: So a couple of questions about what happened as Jesus died on the cross.
SPEAKER_01: So was it Jesus paying instead of us the infinitely large cost that we owe God our Maker?
SPEAKER_01: So the judge settling the debt himself instead of the guilty being required to, or was it God punishing Jesus instead of punishing us, the judge punishing his own son instead of the guilty?
SPEAKER_01: So in your Bibles, please, would you turn to Romans chapter three?
SPEAKER_01: Romans chapter three.
SPEAKER_00: Oh sorry, uh 941.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Black Church Bible, page 941.
SPEAKER_01: 941 in the Black Church Bibles.
SPEAKER_01: I'll read Romans 3 21 to 25.
SPEAKER_01: But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe.
SPEAKER_01: For there is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood to be received by faith.
SPEAKER_01: So I will try and answer those questions, but in a slightly different order.
SPEAKER_01: So think about our plight.
SPEAKER_01: The Bible says that our chief plight, the disastrous, unfixable situation that we find ourselves in, is chiefly as a result of our disobedience to the law of God.
SPEAKER_01: Um, so God is holy, we are bound to Him as His creatures, bound to keep His holy law, and our disobedience renders us guilty.
SPEAKER_01: I think, therefore, that our plight is actually bigger than debt.
SPEAKER_01: It's bigger than a debt, it's a breaking of God's law, it's an offending against his person, because law is personal, and as a result, we are justly, righteously left facing divine punishment.
SPEAKER_01: So, what is happening then on the cross?
SPEAKER_01: And there are a couple of key phrases in these verses in Romans that help unlock what's going on on the cross.
SPEAKER_01: The righteousness of God.
SPEAKER_01: So the righteousness of God, firstly, is God's rightness in himself.
SPEAKER_01: He is just.
SPEAKER_01: He is just and he will always do justice.
SPEAKER_01: The amazing thing is, in the cross of Christ, he is just and justly makes us righteous.
SPEAKER_01: So that's the wonder of the cross.
SPEAKER_01: The righteousness of God is not just an attribute he keeps to himself, but he communicates it, he gives it.
SPEAKER_01: You know, which remember we talked about justification.
SPEAKER_01: The Christian is clothed with the righteousness of Christ.
SPEAKER_01: As part and parcel of that, propitiation occurs.
SPEAKER_01: You can see that word in Romans 3.25.
SPEAKER_01: God put forward Christ Jesus as a propitiation by his blood.
SPEAKER_01: So propitiation is to turn aside wrath.
SPEAKER_01: It's a turning aside of the wrath of God.
SPEAKER_01: It's holy wrath, it's deserved wrath, and justly through the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, that wrath of God towards sinners like us is turned aside, it is propitiated.
SPEAKER_01: That is what is going on on the cross, and as a result of which the penalty is born in and by Christ, and we can justly receive the righteousness of Christ.
SPEAKER_01: Now, who is doing it?
SPEAKER_01: This is just briefly summarizing what we spent a session thinking on.
SPEAKER_01: God the Son did that work in his human nature as he died upon the cross.
SPEAKER_01: So we needed a Saviour who is like us, a true man as well as a new man.
SPEAKER_01: And so God the Son in his human nature does that work of propitiation and obtaining righteousness that he can then give to his brothers and sisters.
SPEAKER_01: But all of the works of God are undivided, and so the work of the Son on the cross is not without the Father or the Spirit.
SPEAKER_01: And the New Testament is clear that the business of obtaining righteousness, propitiating God, satisfying his justice, it is the work of each person of the Trinity.
SPEAKER_01: And I've just listed three verses that would show us that the Father, Son, and the Spirit.
SPEAKER_01: Does anyone want to pick up on any of that, any shape, size or form?
SPEAKER_01: Follow-up question?
SPEAKER_03: So when it comes to that God doesn't acquit the guilty and he doesn't punish the innocent, how do we fit that in with what actually is this saying about Jesus is innocent and we are guilty, and we're acquitted, and he is what we are part of.
SPEAKER_01: God hates it when judges acquit the guilty and declare innocent the guilty.
SPEAKER_01: Romans 3 26.
SPEAKER_01: Have a look at this.
SPEAKER_01: It was to show his righteousness at the present time, and here's the punchline, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
SPEAKER_01: So how can you do it, Lord?
SPEAKER_01: How can you be righteous and righteously acquit the guilty, people like us, and treat your son, who is entirely innocent and holy, as if he is a lawbreaker and under the penalty of having broken the law?
SPEAKER_01: And the glorious answer is union with Christ.
SPEAKER_01: Union with Christ.
SPEAKER_01: So it is entirely just because God treats us in union with our covenant head.
SPEAKER_01: So it's like it's so Adam is the head of the whole human race.
SPEAKER_01: This is the story of the Bible, by the way.
SPEAKER_01: There are two men, there are two covenant heads.
SPEAKER_01: There is Adam, and when Adam falls in Eden, we sin and fall with him.
SPEAKER_01: And what Adam does constitutes every single human being ever since as a sinner.
SPEAKER_01: He constitutes us legally as a sinner.
SPEAKER_01: And just that's just how it works in God's economy.
SPEAKER_01: We're not a bunch of isolated individuals.
SPEAKER_01: We are treated in Adam.
SPEAKER_01: And that is just, because that's the way God sets up the universe.
SPEAKER_01: And then gloriously, there is another man in Scripture and in the universe, and that's the Lord Jesus Christ, the perfect man.
SPEAKER_01: And when through faith and the work of the Holy Spirit we are joined to him, we are never treated apart from him ever again.
SPEAKER_01: And it's in the context of that union that there is a just exchange, it's a double imputation, actually.
SPEAKER_01: So I have Christ's righteousness imputed to me, but my sin and the judgment my sins deserves is imputed to Christ.
SPEAKER_01: And that is just because of the union.
SPEAKER_01: It's like the best the best example is marriage.
SPEAKER_01: The Bible would use it as the best and highest example of this.
SPEAKER_01: So there is a right transfer of assets when the husband and wife marry.
SPEAKER_01: And in the context of that union, I don't know, I think I said when I was teaching on this, it's really good to marry someone enormously wealthy, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01: And that's what you do when you marry Christ.
SPEAKER_01: All of your demerits and sins justly transfer to him.
SPEAKER_01: What does he give to me for the his righteousness?
SPEAKER_01: So that that is where justice lies.
SPEAKER_01: And it's wonderful, that's the absolute heart of the gospel.
SPEAKER_01: How can God be just and the justifier?
SPEAKER_01: And wonderfully he can and does.
SPEAKER_01: Should we go on?
SPEAKER_01: Let's go on.
SPEAKER_01: Um over the page.
SPEAKER_01: Different sort of question, this.
SPEAKER_01: I was really thankful for this.
SPEAKER_01: So adoption.
SPEAKER_01: We thought two weeks ago about the glorious reality of the Christian being adopted into the family of God.
SPEAKER_01: So the Bible says things like, you know, see what kind of love the Father has given to us that we should be called children of God, and so we are.
SPEAKER_01: You know, adopted into the family of God.
SPEAKER_01: It's a wonderful, wonderful thing.
SPEAKER_01: But how should we think or feel or respond to being an adopted child of God if our own earthly biological father was poor?
SPEAKER_01: I was really thankful for someone posing that question.
SPEAKER_01: It is a very good question.
SPEAKER_01: Uh, it is a fact that some Christians do not always find it a wonderful thing to be an adopted child of God because their own experience of a father has been terrible.
SPEAKER_01: And we do have to acknowledge that that is a reality for some brothers and sisters.
SPEAKER_01: And you know, our experiences in life do have an impact on us, and they do have an impact on our walk with the Lord and on our even on our ability to receive a wonderful gift from God.
SPEAKER_01: So things that have happened to us mean it's harder to receive this thing that God gives.
SPEAKER_01: Um, and obviously the Lord knows that.
SPEAKER_01: You know, no, no, no moment of our lives is unknown or hidden from him.
SPEAKER_01: He knows that.
SPEAKER_01: Um, it is it's a sad thing and a hard thing, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01: And I guess just by way of encouragement for that Christian, that you find this part of being a Christian hard does not mean you are not a child of God.
SPEAKER_01: I mean that's that's one thing, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean you're not a child of God if it's something you find difficult.
SPEAKER_01: You know, all Christians, by definition, um, are adopted into God's family.
SPEAKER_01: Jesus is your brother, God is your father, it's a reality.
SPEAKER_01: Even if your experience of that is difficult and you find that as a hard thing to embrace.
SPEAKER_01: I mean, just a just a few things, perhaps to remember.
SPEAKER_01: The Lord hates it when human fathers fail grievously.
SPEAKER_01: I mean, he really hates it.
SPEAKER_01: Um, perhaps worth remembering, too, that uh fatherhood comes from God.
SPEAKER_01: I'll explain what I mean by that.
SPEAKER_01: We we might think to ourselves there are human fathers in this world, and God is a bit like that.
SPEAKER_01: The Bible will actually say it is it's the other way round.
SPEAKER_01: Um God is the Father, it's it's his nature, so the first person of the Trinity eternally has been a father.
SPEAKER_01: And then when God creates a world and people and relationships, and such that these people who he's created can have fellowship and communion with him, he introduces fatherhood and childhood and so on.
SPEAKER_01: So therefore, human fathers are meant to be like God, he is the original father.
SPEAKER_01: Paul makes that point explicitly in Ephesians 3:15.
SPEAKER_01: If you're a note-taker, he says, you know, every father and every father in heaven on earth is named from God.
SPEAKER_01: He is the definitive, and that that might be a helpful thing to remember.
SPEAKER_01: Um, and because he's a perfect father.
SPEAKER_01: And it's worth saying, if that's part of your experience, I would say don't panic.
SPEAKER_01: Tell a friend and find someone to pray with about that.
SPEAKER_01: And you know, pray that over time the Lord would bring you to a place whereby you enjoy the fatherhood of God.
SPEAKER_01: Um, one encouragement for men and fathers is it's actually really important to be godly in our father end.
SPEAKER_01: Um so one way that we bless other people is by living the by is by being living examples of the kinds of fathers that God wants us to be.
SPEAKER_01: And obviously, obviously that relates most directly to those of us who have biological children, but actually, men are built essentially to be fatherly, and the Bible tells us what that looks like in terms of uh providing and protecting, and that's our way of being in the world, and to the extent we do that well, we will bless other people.
SPEAKER_01: And maybe there's a brother or sister in Christ who finds it hard to believe what they read in the black and white of scripture about the fatherhood of God, but then when you when you experience that lived out in flesh and blood, imperfectly, obviously, by a human father, you see the power of the Holy Spirit working that kind of godly uh provision, protection, care, I think that then helps you to believe and receive what we then read about the fatherhood of God.
SPEAKER_01: Would anyone like to uh chip in on that or follow up in any shape, size, or form?
SPEAKER_06: Just a reflection.
SPEAKER_06: I guess it that that sort of thought fits into a wider sense of not allowing our experience of life in the foreign world to um upset or inform our understanding of God's promises.
SPEAKER_06: So there are loads of different ways, aren't there, can we?
SPEAKER_06: The reality of life here in the foreign world.
SPEAKER_06: Can I really believe that there will be an internal reality without pain and suffering given the experience that I have here in that?
SPEAKER_06: So I I guess yeah, can we try to ask him to help us with that conversation?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_01: It's but it's something it's sometimes very hard to overcome the weight of experience, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously, we're not completely driven and shaped by everything that's happened to us anymore.
SPEAKER_01: We're driven any more than we're driven or shaped by our genes.
SPEAKER_01: But I guess they're they're factors that the Bible would take seriously, we take seriously, but you're right, they they have to be challenged and undermined sometimes.
SPEAKER_01: That can be really hard.
SPEAKER_05: Uh slightly on a tangent, but I won't say who it was.
SPEAKER_05: But um, there was a guy that came to this church, and I feel like it was the first time he'd met like men in a different context.
SPEAKER_05: So I think even for people in their 50s, 60s, when they come and be around other men and see who got the example, um, I think he really opened his eyes to actually not everyone's this way, or what I've lived, it's they're not difficult.
SPEAKER_01: That's both an encouragement and a challenge, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01: But how do how do mothers and women fit in?
SPEAKER_01: Well, God in his word has has much to say about being a woman and being a mother, and all women, just like all men are built for fatherhood, whether or not they actually have children, all women are built to be motherly.
SPEAKER_01: Um to and there's a there is, I mean, different corners of the Bible speak to that in different ways.
SPEAKER_01: You know, the essence of motherhood, you would say, would be together with men is a complementary role, nurturing, um, upbuilding.
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, men and women are meant to be complementary.
SPEAKER_01: The world and the church needs fathers and mothers.
SPEAKER_01: Women and mothers are blessed by godly men.
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that would that is one feature of the complementary relationship between men and women.
SPEAKER_01: We're not we're not completely symmetrical.
SPEAKER_01: God has built built us equal but different.
SPEAKER_01: So one one way in which men will help women is by being a godly, fatherly kind of man, and that will then help women, regardless of their age, stage, and situation in life, to be um a godly woman and a mother.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well that's that's where that's actually where I think the church is so precious.
SPEAKER_01: Because there there are plenty of people who have no father or mother, or maybe they do, but actually that person is so deficient, they've almost ceased to be a mother or father, and that's where the genuinely the church being a family comes into her own.
SPEAKER_01: Um, and yeah, you you can find and discover fathers and mothers, and people actually don't have children, discover actually they do have children, and it's really critical that through you know life and example you you you father them and mother them.
SPEAKER_03: This reminds me of I think might be the C.S.
SPEAKER_03: Lewis who said, whenever we've got a longing in our heart that things would be different, it's because we've been called towards eternity and God's design where things will be exactly as they ought to be.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: And so it's not always a bad thing when we have a wrench in us where we think, oh if only, because God will make all that right.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Yes, an amen to that.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Let's go on.
SPEAKER_01: Let's go on to this third question.
SPEAKER_01: It's actually really a set of questions from uh two or three different folks.
SPEAKER_01: So these these are questions to do with perseverance and the business of keeping going as a Christian, not falling away as a Christian.
SPEAKER_01: So, question.
SPEAKER_01: Would Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5 be an example of those who appeared to believe but did not persevere?
SPEAKER_01: Shall we just have a quick look at that passage?
SPEAKER_01: So Acts chapter 5, so back a few pages.
SPEAKER_01: So Acts is a book before Romans.
SPEAKER_01: Acts chapter 5.
unknown: What page did we have?
SPEAKER_00: 913.
SPEAKER_01: 913.
SPEAKER_01: 913 in the black Bibles.
SPEAKER_01: So let me read this passage quickly.
SPEAKER_01: But a man named Ananias, his wife Zephyr, sold a piece of property, and with his wife's knowledge he kept back for himself some of the proceeds, and bought only a part of it, and laid it at the apostle's feet.
SPEAKER_01: But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land?
SPEAKER_01: While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own?
SPEAKER_01: And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal?
SPEAKER_01: Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart?
SPEAKER_01: You have not lied to man, but to God.
SPEAKER_01: When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last, and great fear came upon all who heard of it.
SPEAKER_01: The young men rose and wrapped him up and carried him out and buried him.
SPEAKER_01: And then his wife comes in, she does exactly the same thing.
SPEAKER_01: Verse ten.
SPEAKER_01: Immediately she down she fell down at his feet and breathed her last.
SPEAKER_01: When the young men came in they found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband.
SPEAKER_01: And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard these things.
SPEAKER_01: So it's a It's a really salutary passage, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01: This couple, they lied to God and to the church, and they experience an immediate judgment of God.
SPEAKER_01: So immediate, which in this instance is their deaths.
SPEAKER_01: So, question are these people apostates?
SPEAKER_01: That is, they appeared Christian, but actually were not, or was this simply an example of Christian people falling into very, very grievous sin?
SPEAKER_01: I don't actually think Luke tells us.
SPEAKER_01: So Luke, the writer of Acts, he just describes what happens here and the impact of this.
SPEAKER_01: I don't think he particularly tells us, and this is the eternal destiny of this couple.
SPEAKER_01: I just I don't know.
SPEAKER_01: It could be either of those things.
SPEAKER_01: I note though the response.
SPEAKER_01: Did you see the response?
SPEAKER_01: Verse 11, and great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things.
SPEAKER_01: And that's actually a good thing.
SPEAKER_01: So in the Bible, fear of God is a good thing.
SPEAKER_01: It's a holy reverence.
SPEAKER_01: There's a right kind of awe of God.
SPEAKER_01: Now, I guess partly connected to that, next question: how should we think about particular people who sorry who seem to have stopped being a Christian?
SPEAKER_01: Now, I think this is really hard.
SPEAKER_01: And we really need to remember here, and this is the big thing, God is God, we are not God.
SPEAKER_01: Okay?
SPEAKER_01: God is God, we are not God.
SPEAKER_01: So imagine someone you love, and this is not hard for many of us, who professes faith and then stops exercising faith in Christ.
SPEAKER_01: Now, how do you think about that person?
SPEAKER_01: A bit like Ananias and Sapphira.
SPEAKER_01: Is this someone who is never a Christian?
SPEAKER_01: You think about the parable of the soils, one of those false responses to Jesus, or is it a real Christian who is grievously sinning?
SPEAKER_01: And the answer is God knows.
SPEAKER_01: Okay, God knows.
SPEAKER_01: Not my job to work that one out.
SPEAKER_01: So I we're to pray, we're to try and share scripture with that person.
SPEAKER_01: And the gospel is always true.
SPEAKER_01: Whoever believes in the Lord Jesus will be saved.
SPEAKER_01: Whoever.
SPEAKER_01: That's the gospel.
SPEAKER_01: Whoever believes in the Lord Jesus will be saved.
SPEAKER_01: But the Bible would also say, don't be like that person.
SPEAKER_01: You know, the deceitfulness of sin is really terrible.
SPEAKER_01: Don't be like that person.
SPEAKER_01: So there is a person you meet in the Bible who was churchy, if you can put it like that, but then became cold to the things of Christ, even contemptuous, you know, treating Christ as an unholy thing, and for that person there's no forgiveness.
SPEAKER_01: Now, when you when you turn your back on Christ, particularly having come very close to him and walk away, well, there's there's no way back, is there?
SPEAKER_01: Now, just one encouragement though.
SPEAKER_01: We will probably all of us had times when others could look at us and say, Is he really a Christian?
SPEAKER_01: Is she really a Christian?
SPEAKER_01: If you'd come and looked at my life, particularly in my later teens, is Andrew really a Christian?
SPEAKER_01: Or think about Peter, you know, the disciple Peter, when he's just denied Jesus for the third time, if you sort of press the pause button at that moment and looked at Peter, say, is Peter a Christian?
SPEAKER_01: And obviously, wonderful stories of restoration to come.
SPEAKER_01: Now, again, sort of following on from that, having the warnings in Hebrews, we looked at that last week, about it being impossible to be restored once fallen away, that implies that this scenario is possible.
SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
SPEAKER_01: Should we be fearful?
SPEAKER_01: How can I know that I will stay trusting Jesus to the end of my life?
SPEAKER_01: Now, it's really important to be clear from the Bible about who will fall away.
SPEAKER_01: And the Bible says it is people who are not Christians, but they merely look like it for a while.
SPEAKER_01: Such ones will fall away.
SPEAKER_01: But the Lord's people persevere.
SPEAKER_01: Okay, that was the that was the big message, and I hope encouragement last week.
SPEAKER_01: The Lord's people persevere because the Lord preserves them.
SPEAKER_01: So John 6.39, you know, this is Jesus.
SPEAKER_01: The will of him who sent me is that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
SPEAKER_01: So the Saviour does not lose his sheep.
SPEAKER_01: He does not, and he cannot.
SPEAKER_01: So once saved, always saved, is a Bible truth.
SPEAKER_01: And it's guaranteed by the sovereignty of God, okay, the total power of God.
SPEAKER_01: So we cannot thwart that, and that is a wonderful joy and blessing.
SPEAKER_01: Now the Lord wants us to be faithful and keep growing, to keep serving, to be holy.
SPEAKER_01: He wants us to persevere, but persevering is not the thing that will keep us saved.
SPEAKER_01: Our mediator, the Lord Jesus, the one who saves us.
SPEAKER_01: Well, he saves us all the way down the line.
SPEAKER_01: He saves us to the uttermost.
SPEAKER_01: And so it is him who is the preserver of the people of God.
SPEAKER_01: Now, different ones of us do worry about assurance, either a small amount or a large amount.
SPEAKER_01: I think the Bible speaks to that in a variety of different ways.
SPEAKER_01: I hope the sermon today is a relevant one when we get upstairs later.
SPEAKER_01: One of the big messages of Scripture is today.
SPEAKER_01: So, in a sense, don't worry about yesterday and what you did yesterday.
SPEAKER_01: Don't worry, in a sense, about tomorrow.
SPEAKER_01: So the book of Hebrews repeatedly says, today, if you hear his voice.
SPEAKER_01: That's all that really matters.
SPEAKER_01: Today, am I trusting and obeying Jesus today?
SPEAKER_01: And in a sense, all that that's all that the Lord wants us to worry about.
SPEAKER_01: Just practically, this is why, again, the church is so precious.
SPEAKER_01: Being in a church where hopefully you have church elders you can talk this sort of thing through with, or trusted friends, and you could you can talk and pray about this because it is hard and it can be very distressing too.
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm actually just going to keep going on to the last question because I promised someone we would we would get there.
SPEAKER_01: It has to do with joy and salvation.
SPEAKER_01: How do we feel joy in our own salvation when people we love are not saved?
SPEAKER_01: And I was really grateful to receive that question.
SPEAKER_01: It is very uh helpful and honest.
SPEAKER_01: Could you turn back, please, to Romans chapter 8?
SPEAKER_01: The end of Romans chapter 8.
SPEAKER_01: So it's sort of oh no, we weren't in Romans.
SPEAKER_01: Where we were earlier, yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Back to Romans chapter 8.
SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to read the very end of the chapter, Romans 8, 37.
SPEAKER_01: No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
SPEAKER_01: For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
SPEAKER_01: And that is glorious, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01: And that should give us such joy.
SPEAKER_01: Nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ.
SPEAKER_01: But keep going.
SPEAKER_01: I'm speaking the truth in Christ.
SPEAKER_01: I am not lying.
SPEAKER_01: My conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart, for I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh.
SPEAKER_01: So Paul's there is talking about his fellow Jews, his kinsmen according to the flesh, who rejected the Messiah.
SPEAKER_01: And in the same breath that he can pour out praise, and the tone of Romans 8 is unspeakable joy, but then in exactly the same breath and in the same human heart, there is also room for this anguish.
SPEAKER_01: Because people he loves are not with him in Christ.
SPEAKER_01: He says, even, you know, I wish that I could be cut off.
SPEAKER_01: I would rather go to hell so that they didn't.
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, he knows it doesn't work like that, but that is the state of turmoil in the Apostle Paul's heart, and somehow or other there is room in his heart for both.
SPEAKER_01: I think that should encourage us.
SPEAKER_01: There can be, and there should be, you know, room in the Christian's heart for amazing joy, but also anguish.
SPEAKER_01: So we we ought to be deeply concerned for the lost.
SPEAKER_01: And yet it shouldn't it shouldn't erase our joy in Christ because we have been given something and someone so wonderful.
SPEAKER_01: Now just a just a couple of encouragements to try and to try and hold that together.
SPEAKER_01: And I put a really helpful quote there down from Edward Donnelly.
SPEAKER_01: Don't accept more responsibility than that which God puts on you.
SPEAKER_01: If you do, it will break you.
SPEAKER_01: So we we do have a responsibility towards others, don't we?
SPEAKER_01: To love them, to feel for them, to gospel them, to pray for them.
SPEAKER_01: But we don't have ultimate responsibility for that person.
SPEAKER_01: Each person is responsible for their own sin, the way they have responded to Christ.
SPEAKER_01: But also when we think about what we are and aren't responsible for, remember God is the judge.
SPEAKER_01: And he's the wise and the just judge, and he will always do what is right and good.
SPEAKER_01: So again, it's just so helpful to remember who we are and who God is.
SPEAKER_01: He is God and we are not.
SPEAKER_02: Do you think we can learn from the way Jesus handled Peter's denial?
SPEAKER_02: It was obviously a serious thing that Peter denied Christ every time.
SPEAKER_02: But Jesus didn't say anything to him.
SPEAKER_02: He didn't activate anything.
SPEAKER_02: He just prayed for him that when he was restored, he would strengthen his brothers.
SPEAKER_02: So I think that shows the power of prayer.
SPEAKER_02: And that's the kind of thing we can't reason and work out what should be done.
SPEAKER_02: We need to bring the matter to God again.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we can't fix things, can we, but but we can pray.
SPEAKER_00: So what would be the difference there between the lie of how much money they got selling the property and lying denying Jesus?
SPEAKER_01: That's that's a that's a wonderful question.
SPEAKER_01: So compare Peter denying the Lord Jesus three times, here's Ananias and Sapphira lying to uh the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_01: What's the difference?
SPEAKER_01: The answer is there is no difference.
SPEAKER_01: There is absolutely no difference.
SPEAKER_01: And there's a mystery there, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01: And that that just shows us this it it's God, okay?
SPEAKER_01: God determines what happens.
SPEAKER_01: So he he in his in his counsels and plan gave to Peter a repentant heart and changed his heart and gave him a job to do.
SPEAKER_01: In his counsels and plan, he treated Ananias and Sapphira differently.
SPEAKER_01: I don't think if the Bible tells us whether they're in heaven or hell, I don't think it tells us that, but he did treat them differently, and we just have to sort of in a godly way shrug our shoulders and say, you know, God is God, I am not.
SPEAKER_01: But you're there is absolutely no difference whatsoever.
SPEAKER_01: It's not that Peter's sin was a little bit better, and so it was easier for God to forgive him.
SPEAKER_01: No, not a not a bit of it.
SPEAKER_01: To deny the Son of God is a grievous thing, and yet the mercy of God is just vast.
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Good, I'm gonna pray.
SPEAKER_01: Um if if you've got other questions about this or other things, please please grab me.
SPEAKER_01: Um let me pray.
SPEAKER_01: God, our Father, we've been talking about things of the greatest importance, and we ask that you would be our teacher now and always.
SPEAKER_01: Help us to think your thoughts.
SPEAKER_01: We pray that your word would be our rule and our guide, and we pray too that it would increasingly shape how we feel and what we do.
SPEAKER_01: We thank you for the great salvation you've given us in the Lord Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we do want to pray for the men and women and boys and girls around us who do not yet know you, and we pray for mercy and grace, pray for prayerfulness and concern for ourselves.
SPEAKER_01: As we battle with different forms of weakness ourselves in body and in soul, we pray for a growing confidence uh in Christ, a growing uh assurance of your fatherly love and care.
SPEAKER_01: And we ask that for our own good and joy, but also because it would bring you glory and pleasure.
SPEAKER_01: And we pray in Jesus' name.
SPEAKER_01: Amen.