The 3 Guys Podcast
Reuel Sample, Nick Craig and Ben Schachtman are 3 guys discussing the events of the week that impact Wilmington NC and around the country.
The 3 Guys Podcast
The 3 Guys Episode 4: Analyzing The Wilmington Elections
In Episode 4 of "Three Guys Podcast," hosts Reuel Sample, Nick Craig, and Ben Schachtman analyze the results of the Wilmington elections, noting a significant shift in local political dynamics. Democrats swept the Wilmington City Council, leaving no Republican representation, while the county commission retained a Republican majority. The hosts discuss how this split will shape local governance and the growing animosity between city and county entities.
Focusing on the mayoral race, they highlight Bill Saffo’s decisive victory and explore factors behind his and other candidates’ performance. Attention is given to challenges faced by Republican and lesser-known candidates, campaign strategies, and the impact of fundraising, name recognition, and voter turnout. They point out that local elections were influenced not just by candidate merits but by broader trends, such as party messaging and national political moods, with many voters relying on sample ballots rather than detailed policy knowledge.
Finally, the hosts examine city council races, the influence of campaign money, and surprises among candidates, including notable Democratic victories. They discuss arguments within the Republican base post-election and suggest that overall, Republican losses were part of a wider trend seen across North Carolina and the country. Ultimately, the episode reflects on the importance of candidate visibility, voter engagement, and coalition-building in shaping future local outcomes.
Welcome to the Three Guys podcast. I'm Reuel Sample from the Wilmington Conservative. On your left is Ben Shukman from Kuer radio. Ben, good to see you again. Howdy. And on your right, Nick Craig from the Nick Craig podcast. How's it going? It's good to see you again. Likewise, gents. It's been a few weeks, and we've had a little bit of activity in the community lately. Uh, just a little bit. If you have been living under a rock these last couple of days, you'll be. You'll be surprised to know, to learn that there's been an election that's happened. And, um, we're going to hear we're going to talk about it as soon as my tongue loosens up for this podcast.
Nick Craig:So I started drinking earlier.
Reuel Sample:Or or drinking after.
Ben Schachtman:I think certain people were definitely drinking after election. Uh, yes. For various reasons.
Reuel Sample:For various reasons. So it was not a good day for Republicans. Nick.
Nick Craig:Yeah. And it's not only not only was it not a good day for Republicans, it was the second election in a row in which Republicans got their clocks cleaned, swept for the Wilmington City Council. The commission goes from or the city council, I should say, goes from having five Democrats and two Republicans to now seven zero, including the mayor, Bill Saffo, in his successful reelection effort there. And, um, it's going to be interesting to see what that government structure looks like moving forward. Meanwhile, on the other side, you've got the county commission that has a three Republican, two Democrat majority there. So it's going to be interesting to see how those two, uh, government entities, which Ben, as a proud watcher of local government meetings, they seemingly don't like each other anyway. So I imagine this is only going to grow some of that animosity.
Ben Schachtman:I think it's been a long time since they've had one of their joint meetings. Yeah. And there was a there was a brief thaw. I think when Julia Olson, Bozeman Democrat, was then turned Republican out.
Nick Craig:Of.
Ben Schachtman:Nowhere, the Republican Party did not want her. Yeah. Um, yeah. There was there was a, like a brief detente where they were doing some joint meetings to talk about planning, transportation and stuff like that. But its relations have not been great between the city and the county. I don't know if this will make it that much worse. I mean, you had a Democrat majority. Now you have a complete, uh, you know, all seven Democratic members of the council. So it's a nice way of saying, I don't know if it could get worse.
Nick Craig:That's fair.
Reuel Sample:Let's take a look at, uh, we're not going to go through everything, but let's take a look at, uh, two races in particular, the mayor race, Bill Saffo.
Ben Schachtman:Fascinating.
Reuel Sample:Your your mayor for life from from last.
Ben Schachtman:I got some flack for saying that, but I'm sorry.
Nick Craig:These 20 years is I mean, for a lot of people in our community that is literally been their entire lives.
Ben Schachtman:Also, any aspiring mayoral candidates prove me wrong.
Reuel Sample:So 12,093 votes. Now, these are all unofficial because they're not canvased until November 14th, November 14th, but 49% of the vote. Yeah. Does that surprise you?
Ben Schachtman:No, it does not. What I think surprises me a little bit is how well Billy Craig did and how shellacked Jonathan Barfield did. And we can get granular if you want, but I just think we had talked about who might support Barfield. And I went a little bit precinct by precinct and looked at, you know, um, majority black precincts that had supported other black candidates. And having talked to people in those neighborhoods who said explicitly, it is my plan to support black candidates in this election, they there was one precinct where, uh, Barfield did take the top spot, but other ones that have historically supported black candidates that did not. So you look back to 2021, these are precincts that heavily supported Kevin Spears, for example. And they just did not turn out. I mean, Sappho won in the took the top spot in those precincts. And even in the precinct where Barfield did get the most votes, Sappho was not crazy far behind. It was like ten points behind. And, you know, so we you know, there was a lot of discussion about the racial dynamics of this race, and that didn't seem to play as big of a role as I think some people thought.
Reuel Sample:The people who voted for for Jonathan Barfield, 20, almost 21%.
Nick Craig:Very low.
Reuel Sample:Very low.
Nick Craig:Yeah. Well, and if I'm being honest, he didn't seemingly didn't put any work into it. I mean, there was a few signs out and about.
Ben Schachtman:A sign with a typo.
Nick Craig:Yes, yes. Sign with a typo.
Reuel Sample:Wait, wait, I don't know this.
Ben Schachtman:The website said Barfield. I think it was Barfield, ILM mayor something.
Nick Craig:And it was.
Ben Schachtman:The there was only one M shared by ILM and mayor. So if you I mean, if you put it in, Google's gonna point you in the right direction.
Reuel Sample:Yeah. Okay. Interesting.
Nick Craig:Okay. Um, a little bit of signage raised, a little bit of money. I mean, in comparison to everybody else. Raised a little bit of money. Um, I spent a little bit of time at, at early voting. Not a crazy amount, but from all of the reports and everything I heard, he didn't spend a lot of time outside early voting, which is a huge time suck. It's a huge time commitment you've got for 19 days or 14 days of early voting runs from 8 to 5 at a couple of locations before Election Day. So it's a big commitment, but I don't know if he I don't know if Ben, it didn't seem like it was a serious run for mayor. Just make hopefully something happens. But I mean, this is a guy that knows how to politic, knows how to win races, and there was no seemingly no serious effort put into it.
Ben Schachtman:I mean, I did see him at some events. He did come to all the forums. Um, you know, he he was more engaged than some candidates. Sure. I can say, um, yeah, I, I have to wonder too, about we got to talk about this, that Novant video where it was a 5 or 6 minute video where he sort of relitigated or went back and explained is a better way of putting it, went back and explained his vote on the hospital sale.
Nick Craig:By the way, I like the word that you used. Relitigate. I think that's accurate.
Ben Schachtman:Okay. Let's go.
Nick Craig:With I think I think it very.
Ben Schachtman:Much. I mean, I think that's how it feels for a lot of people. And it was I think, I think for a lot of new residents, they were being introduced. That was an own goal for some people who, like, didn't know about this issue and are now introducing it and are now doing some googling and are like, oh. But also his defense struck some people. Um, school board member Tim Merrick called this out on social media a fellow Democrat and said, the way that Barfield said, you know, I stand by my vote. But also it didn't matter because I was the fourth person to come along. Um, sort of. Julia Boseman, Woody White and Pat Cusack, um, already had the votes to do what they wanted to do. So it was just it felt weird and unnecessary. And also, if you a six minute video on social media is kind of.
Reuel Sample:That's a long time.
Ben Schachtman:A long.
Reuel Sample:Time.
Nick Craig:As long as this podcast. Yeah.
Ben Schachtman:It's just it's very close. Uh, so that felt weird to people.
Reuel Sample:We're looking for a third guy, by the way.
Ben Schachtman:So. Yeah, I mean, I, you know, he he was not pounding the pavement as hard as Billy Craig or Bill Saffo.
Nick Craig:Yeah, I mean, Bill, bill Saffo was out in the corner of college, and Oleander waving looked like the guy trying to like the guy dressed up as the tax lady or the guy selling the flipping around the mattress sign. I mean, Saffo put the work in and the result shows. But like, to what Ben mentioned earlier, you know, Republicans have clamored for a long time. We don't have a serious mayoral candidate. We don't have a mayoral candidate. And it's been a there's been a lot of elections recently where there either hasn't been a Republican candidate at the top and it's a nonpartisan election, but everybody knows, um, or there's been just last minute random attempts that are not actual campaigns. And if there's one takeaway from this, a strong Republican candidate very well could become the mayor of Wilmington in the future. I don't know that that's completely off the table with the results that that we saw, uh, Tuesday night.
Reuel Sample:Well, it's it absolutely is not off the table because you see Billy Craig coming in with 30% of the vote. Uh, that's almost 20, 20 points behind the leader. But time and time again, we heard who is Billy Craig? Who is who is Billy Craig? And, uh, you know, name recognition, especially in local politics, is the name of the game.
Ben Schachtman:It we'll put a pin in that because I'm starting to have some doubts for on name recognition. I still think it's the coin of the realm, but I see it eroding a little bit. Okay. I do think, you know, Craig struggled with some of the policy issues, and I don't think people vote. A lot of people vote on policy issues. I think Nick and I spent a lot more time thinking about that than the average Wilmington does.
Nick Craig:Yes. You and I have spent more time this week thinking about it than most voters in their entire lives.
Ben Schachtman:But yeah, I think visibility is important. I think incumbency just carries tons of weight with it. And I think money matters. You know, I mean, and we're going to talk about that too. But I think for a new candidate to break in, you have to have an incredible street team 18, or a ton of advertising money or a little bit of both. Yes. And Craig didn't raise as nearly as much money as as Saffo did. So, I mean, there's a lot of headwinds for him, and it's his first time in politics. I think, you know, a stronger candidate or, you know, Craig came back in two years, things, things might look different. 30% of the vote for an untested political candidate who doesn't quite know his way around, he doesn't have a ton of money. Is is kind of impressive. I mean, the last time we saw this was 2019, the ill fated Devin Scott challenge. Saffo Scott put a ton, didn't have a ton of money, but put a ton of effort into breaking into politics because he was an unknown. He went to everything. He went everywhere. Um, it wasn't quite able to unseat Saffo, but came pretty close. It was like 7000 and something. 7000 something. So the proof is in the track record. Um, it can be done. It's just, you know, who wants to wants to do it.
Reuel Sample:Well, we see Billy Craig or Jonathan Barfield again?
Nick Craig:Um, I'm going to start with Jonathan Barfield. I don't I don't think so. Not I'm not saying he's not going to be around. He's a very well-established name in our community. He's got a lengthy, um, you know, political track record. He was on Governor Stein's transition team. So he's well connected and he's involved. I don't know that you'll see him in a county commission race or a city council race, but, I mean, you look at the North Carolina legislature, I don't I don't know exactly where Jonathan lives in town to be, what district he would be in. Um, he if he wants to stay involved. Sure. But I don't think it'll be in local. He won't be a city council member or mayor or a county commissioner, probably. Again, I think this the results of this. What's your what's your final tally for him on there.
Reuel Sample:For.
Nick Craig:Just over 5000.
Reuel Sample:Over 5000.
Nick Craig:That's a pretty strong indication that you're not winning over the hearts and minds of people. And Ben talked about name ID he has a hell of a lot of name ID. Him and his father combined have been on the county commission for, what, 40 years? I mean, you know, you talk about the reeve embarks and the those names. A Barfield name is like that. And it obviously did not translate to the to the ballot. Plus the Democrat Party completely screwed him and didn't endorse him.
Reuel Sample:Yeah. We're going to talk about that once we get to the city council. Sure.
Ben Schachtman:Billy Craig I don't know. I'd love to talk with him about this experience again. You got to give mere mortals credit when they step into the realm of establishment politics. That is that is tough. And I wouldn't blame anyone who gets a taste of it and goes, oh, no thanks, you know, so if he goes on with whatever else is next in his life and we don't see him again, I don't think that's there's nothing embarrassing about that. It was a, you know, an honest try. Um, so yeah, I'd, I'd have to ask him.
Reuel Sample:I got to give it to him. He did not become anybody else other than Billy Craig throughout this entire thing. He showed up in sweatpants and shorts and everything else and went out to talk to people. I walked around with him for a little bit, and he would go up and shake hands with people. Oh, I went to school with your mom and things like that.
Nick Craig:I noticed that as well. And that was something that I noticed with the early voting. Because of his 30 year experience within the community as being a member of WPD, and then a mixture of that and the FBI task force. I mean, I was out at early voting with him a couple of weeks ago, and he met somebody who was from the town that his wife was grew up in, in western North Carolina, and they knew the family name. It was just like that kind of connection, which I think translates to a very, very strong second place showing, because that has an impact when you're voting and you're like, oh, this guy is he's a real guy and he knows somebody that I know. And that's how that is, how a lot of people make up their minds when they vote.
Reuel Sample:Now, before we go into the city Council race, I just wanted to point out our brand new studio. You know, it's, uh, we finally have settled down into place. We're going to put some things up on the wall, but, uh, your support and your help in all of this is making all this possible. So, uh, I think that's very manly. Very. What did you call it? You call it.
Ben Schachtman:Industrial chic, which is exactly the kind of thing an NPR guy would say.
Reuel Sample:Yes. Well, let's go on to the the city council because, uh, you talked about this at one point about the amount of money that went into this race. And I think it's fair to say that most of that went into the city Council race.
Ben Schachtman:So, uh, Saffo raised 130 something with a $20,000 loan from himself, over 200 K raised, and we'll know more by the end of the year. But over 200 K raised by Collier and Waddell alone. So just a you know, compared to ten years ago, this is a staggering amount of money. I think it's closer to par for the course now, honestly. But yeah, that is a lot of money.
Reuel Sample:J.c. Lyle coming in first place, followed by Cassidy Santaguida and Clinton Quintana. I know I'm going to screw up that name. Three folks who are known in Wilmington but are relatively new to politics.
Nick Craig:Um, I would say JK Lyle is the only one that I would describe as known in Wilmington. Um, Cassidy is is I don't know how long she's been in Wilmington. 10 or 15 years. I mean, so she's been around, but yes, first time in politics. And same thing with Jackie McClinton.
Ben Schachtman:Cassidy I feel like Cassidy got a little bit of a boost just from running for commissioner.
Nick Craig:Last.
Ben Schachtman:Year. I mean, she didn't place very well. I thought it was a well-run campaign, and I think if nothing else got her name out there a little bit. Like I said, it's very hard when it's the first time people have seen your name. And I've actually heard people, you know, speculate on whether the last name Santaguida threw people a little bit.
Reuel Sample:Yeah, it did, it did because I was talking to people about that.
Ben Schachtman:Right. But I think that helped a little bit. But JC taking the top spot. Let's just talk about that for a second.
Nick Craig:She's now the record. She now has the most votes of any Wilmington City Council candidate in history.
Ben Schachtman:And again, going through precincts, you know, a lot of, um, you know, slightly Republican leaning precincts where her and Luke Waddell top two spots. I mean, maybe Luke took the top one, maybe she took the top one, or she was in the top three with Luke and Richard Collier in very conservative.
Nick Craig:I saw a lot of that and I was surprised.
Ben Schachtman:I wonder if that mystery mailer had anything to do with it.
Reuel Sample:Well, we're still the mystery mailer that, uh, that Ben is talking about, of course. Is that coming from that North Carolinians for prosperity or something like.
Ben Schachtman:The the empowering, the empowering the.
Reuel Sample:Future? Yeah. I can't find who they are.
Ben Schachtman:It's it's the, um, it's this guy who works for the state GOP appears to be freelancing and helping people do these. We don't know what the actual pack is. Wow.
Nick Craig:Well, he's a paid. He's a paid treasurer. The guy. The guy that's listed on the documents. So he subs out his. I mean, you can pay him to be your treasurer because.
Ben Schachtman:The actual money or philosophy behind it is. But I know that some of the candidates on that mailer were initially upset. Honestly, that could be one of the better things that happened to Jesse Lyle in this race, because she just picked up a lot of, you know, moderate, unaffiliated and even, you know, center right conservatives with.
Reuel Sample:That, I can tell you that the Republican candidates were upset about it. They, they they just they because if you didn't see the mailer, the mailer had, uh, Bill Sappho, uh, JK, Li'l Luke, Luke Collier.
Nick Craig:Luke, Luke and Richard.
Reuel Sample:Luke and Richard on it. And and it was people were asking questions about it, but I'm sure let's talk about Luke. Luke real quickly. That's a surprise that he came in.
Ben Schachtman:Biggest surprise of the election for me.
Nick Craig:Yeah I mean I. I it was it was going to be a tough election for Republicans. The last city council election was a tough one for Republicans. We talked a little bit about that in our last episode. Similar amounts of money spent by candidates, a lot of resources and a lot of time poured into it. I really thought Luke was going to be able to squeak out that third spot. Um, I was not impressed at all, and I made this clear last time we spoke. I was not impressed at all with Yakima. Um, I thought she did a terrible job in all of the form, any of the videotaped, streamed online kind of events. Um, and so I thought, Luke and I will admit, when the dump of the early voting and absentee by mail votes came out, I was like, oh, Republicans are in great shape. There are only a couple hundred votes behind. Um, and then as the night went on, the three Democrats were pretty much in lockstep, unison, gaining every single precinct dump. It was just they continued to grow and and Luke was never able to make up the advantage. Even with just 3 or 4 precincts left, he was down almost 1200 votes, which you can't make up. Its unsurpassable. And not not when the top vote getters got. What was it, 11,000. 12,000 votes? Yeah. Um, you can't make up 1200 votes when 12,000 wins you the contest.
Ben Schachtman:Yeah, I mean, I don't I mean, just objectively looking at this, I don't know how much more Waddell could have done.
Nick Craig:No.
Ben Schachtman:He ran. He ran a good campaign with good messaging, a ton of money, um, you know, and a ton of public presence. He picked up a thousand some votes over his 2021 performance, but just Democratic turnout was really strong. And if you look, I mean, those three candidates on the Democratic slate are really tightly clustered.
Reuel Sample:Yes.
Ben Schachtman:And that to me just feels like people were just those those Democratic sample ballots were working magic. I mean, I don't think people who I think there's lots of people who are sort of, you know, politically eclectic or unaffiliated or maybe center left, might have watched some of those forums and felt like they needed more time to get their head around some of the policies or just, you know, get into politics. But I don't think that's what happened. I think people got that sample flier, saw those three names and and they went with that. And that's a really tough hill to climb. And as you guys have pointed out, you know Wilmington's already leaning blue. So Luke had his work cut out for him to start. Yeah, but I don't I mean, just for what it's worth, credit where it's due. I don't know what else he possibly could have done.
Nick Craig:Well, I mean, outside of being a Democrat, I don't think there would have been anything else. I mean, I think.
Ben Schachtman:That would have been the second biggest surprise. Yeah.
Nick Craig:But I'm serious. Like, outside of being on that Democrat endorsed, uh, pamphlet that Ben's talking about, I'm not sure if he would have I don't. What was his final fundraising number? Was it one. It was like one.
Ben Schachtman:Over 132 if.
Nick Craig:He doubled that. I mean, it's just say 300,000. I still don't know that that is enough to I mean, you could double your TV advertising. You could send out more mail. The end result margin. It's not. He didn't lose by 15 votes. I mean, the final tally is hundreds of votes. And I don't know that you pick up those hundreds of votes by spending more money on TV. He'd had a radio campaign, digital campaign all over the place. I think only two candidates bought TV, and that would have been Sappho and Luke. And it didn't matter.
Reuel Sample:So what was the big message coming from the Democrats? What inspired the Democrats to vote for Democrats?
Ben Schachtman:So I've had some pushback from some from some some folks in the Democratic world who my feeling is that this was a vote against, okay, that for a couple of things, one, um, just animus against the Trump administration. You know, this is a proxy war for people who are frustrated with the Trump administration. It's a variation on the midterm election pendulum swing. Um, I also feel like people want didn't feel like waiting for the midterms. And this felt like an opportunity to push back against the Republican Party writ large. Is that a good reason to make local election decisions? That's up to you. But I feel like that was just anecdotally being out at the polls, whether it's the Northeast Library, the senior center, Rachel Freeman, CFFC, I heard that over and over again. It's not scientific, but it's.
Reuel Sample:If you hear it.
Ben Schachtman:I feel like that's a significant part of it. And then I also felt like that, again, the messaging was really strong. I feel like there are a lot of voters, especially new voters, who haven't watched the forums, they haven't read the interviews. They're not super policy savvy. And, you know, you're living lives, you got kids, you got a job. And that's no disrespect, but you're like, oh, it's the last minute. And I know this because my own friends will text me and be like, who do I vote for? And I always tell them, I can't tell you. But like, there's a lot of that, you know, you wake up Tuesday morning and you're like.
Reuel Sample:I want to see those texts.
Ben Schachtman:I will show you the texts. I am a scrupulous journalist.
Nick Craig:Reuel o people text me who to vote for. I'm like, yeah, these are the candidates. Let's go.
Ben Schachtman:I wish I could do that, but I can't. I can't write it down. I just. I send them the interviews and they're like, yeah, I'm not gonna listen to you for eight hours. Just so I do feel like there's a lot of people who either went to early voting, but especially on Election Day. And just if you lean a little bit left or more, they're like, okay, this is it. This is what I did. So a combination of low information voters who just kind of wanted some help point in the right direction, and people who are pushing back against Trump. I know people who were like, you know, high information voters really tapped in who liked things that especially Jesse and Cassidy were saying they were policy voters. It's just hard for me to believe there were that many policy driven voters.
Reuel Sample:Uh, Nick, I've got the results here from Charlotte. Where, uh, the Democrats just. The Democrats just ran away with it, and. Yeah. And, uh, but in Wilmington, Republicans had a chance. They had a chance.
Nick Craig:But I don't know that. Well, I don't I don't know that I agree with that. And I mean, in Monday morning quarterbacking, which is my favorite thing to do both in football and, and in politics, um, there was a lot of immediate aftermath from Republicans. I saw this in some Facebook pages over the last couple of days that, um, development was the issue because of Luke and Richard's connection to real estate. That's why they lost. And I just don't know that there's any data or evidence to back that up. Had Republicans had a strong showing in Charlotte, which, by the way, the incumbent Democrat mayor, who has been hiding since August when Irina Zawadzka got murdered, I mean, literally hiding his not public nowhere to be found. Got 70% of the vote. Um, you had, uh, Edwin Edwin Peacock, who currently sits on the Charlotte City Council, got annihilated in his reelection effort. Tark Bakari's wife, Krista Bakari, uh, lost the district six seat, which Republicans have held for 25 years. All of that to be said, this was not a good night for Republicans anywhere across the state or country.
Ben Schachtman:Wrightsville beach.
Nick Craig:Yeah, I mean, Hank Miller, who's been on there for a significant period of time.
Ben Schachtman:Lost very reliably conservative town.
Reuel Sample:Yes.
Ben Schachtman:That that has no problem with the status quo. You know, they're very happy with the way things are. And Hank Miller, I'm shocked. I'm that's the second most shocking thing after Luke Waddell. I know not a lot of people are super invested in Wrightsville Beach politics, but just as a bellwether, maybe.
Nick Craig:Yeah, 100%. And so that's why I push back a little bit on the notion of, oh, if, if, if Luke was didn't own a real estate company, or Richard, who, by the way, is not a realtor or in real estate, he works for an engineering company. If they weren't associated with real estate, they would have won. I just I call BS on that rule because we saw no other elections literally anywhere in the state of North Carolina where Republicans did well. So I don't I don't buy into that at all. I think anybody making that argument is scapegoating the practicality of like Ben noted, Democrats are pissed off. Trump has been ruining everything that they support for 12 months now. They're pissed beyond belief. They want retribution, which makes sense. Uh, the same way that Republicans had successes in 21. Biden admin government still shut down, bars and restaurants still closed. Republican voters said, to hell with this. That's when Luke and Charlie got Luke got elected for the first time. Charlie got reelected as as two Republicans. There's no data to back up the fact that the candidates were bad or that Republicans didn't message the issue. Their their asses got handed to them up and down the the entire United States.
Ben Schachtman:I do I do want to ask this because I'm curious what you guys think about this and that. There was there were some places, Charlotte in particular, where I think it was probably a lost cause. You know, they were the 300. And they were. That was not going to go well for them. But I did. I did feel like in Wilmington there was a legitimate chance, and I felt like the GOP gave conservatives in Wilmington two good candidates for city council. And I talked to a lot of conservatives who were really excited about that. They thought, you know, uh, Collier was, you know, again, he was, you know, center, right. Moderate. Uh, enough with the party platform that they didn't feel queasy voting for him, but normal enough that they didn't. You know, your nice suburban house folks didn't feel weird about voting for him. Um, who could maybe come in and and team up with Luke and bring, you know, especially on fiscal issues, bring some balance to council. They were stoked about it. And then they didn't go to the polls.
Reuel Sample:Well, that that that was going to be my question for both of you. Is it fair to to to blame at least part of this on voters.
Nick Craig:And not blame part of it? I mean, you blame all of it on on voters.
Ben Schachtman:In.
Nick Craig:Terms of turnout.
Ben Schachtman:It was Chairman John Edwards. Point was that there was there were the candidates were there. The numbers were there. At least from his point of view, he felt like the outreach work was put into it. I mean, we are talking turnout was better this time, you know.
Nick Craig:26.
Ben Schachtman:We're still getting an f. Guys, you know but I mean.
Reuel Sample:Slightly better than 2023.
Ben Schachtman:But I mean 2000 more Republicans show up.
Nick Craig:They win. They not only win, they could take two seats.
Ben Schachtman:They take two seats.
Reuel Sample:And I guess that's why I brought up Charlotte. Because in Charlotte, even if every Republican showed up to vote.
Nick Craig:Well, it's a little bit different in Charlotte with like the districted seats. If you look at the result for the, um, uh, Tricia, um, Bakari seat, um, that is a seat because it is because Charlotte is such a large metro. They have, uh, like districted areas that are geographically wards.
Ben Schachtman:Yeah, it would be very different.
Nick Craig:So it's not there are at large seats in which a Republican who, by the way, is on the council right now got literally annihilated. Um, but so even in some Republican strongholds like district six, which I noted Republicans have held for 25 years. Chris Macari not only didn't win. I mean, she lost handedly. I mean, it was it was multiple percentage points. Thousands of votes. Um, it was a bad night for good Republican candidates and bad. Just look at new Jersey. Three years or four years ago, the new Jersey governor's race was a three point gap with an incumbent in office, and the same candidate runs again three days ago and loses by like 15%. I mean, it's not it's not even a close race this time.
Ben Schachtman:That new Jersey feels very different to me than what happened in Wilmington. I agree.
Nick Craig:But I'm just saying it's a it's a it was a trend everywhere across the country.
Ben Schachtman:It does feel like a trend everywhere for some of the reasons I think we've talked about. I am like, just what makes people stay home and Democrats stay home, too. You know, um, certainly this could have been a landslide of 2000 more Democrats had showed up.
Nick Craig:Sure.
Ben Schachtman:Um, and, you know, if it would were taken a lot more support for Barfield. But in theory, you know, that race might have looked a little bit different.
Nick Craig:I think back to the point that you were making earlier, Ben. People are busy raising their family, doing stuff with their kids, soccer, sports, all of the all of the fun activities.
Ben Schachtman:Soccer is always the main culprit.
Nick Craig:Well of course, fake sports. So, so soccer's always the culprit. But people. And when you look at your your maybe your engaged national voter, the I'm not going to call them the MAGA voter, but your person that is in support of Donald Trump and what Republicans are doing in Washington, D.C. unless you are a five out of five voter, that doesn't translate to local elections. And you know the the anecdote fat, dumb and happy. I mean, that's kind of where Republicans are right now. If you look at North Carolina as a whole, the legislature essentially has a supermajority for Republicans. Governor Stein really can't get a whole hell of a lot done. He can veto things, and he has most of them get overridden. Not all, but most up in Washington, D.C.. Trump is being Trump in the Oval Office. You've got Republicans beating the drum in Washington, D.C. why bother Ben? Why vote? Everything's good for Republicans. Like what's why? Who cares?
Ben Schachtman:My conversation with folks right of center have been have borne that out a lot. Especially more establishment Republicans. People. It's the people who are who they see the GOP getting everything they want. They're still frustrated. They still are suffering economically. They still haven't seen the Epstein files or whatever their thing is. They're still angry, but they're sort of coming from the far right where they're mad at the establishment GOP. And that has caused some of them to sit out. I saw people criticizing Luke and Collier for being too establishment, and they were honestly, they were the only ones really pointing out the development stuff, of course, because it's the one weapon they could kind of wield.
Nick Craig:Yeah. I mean, when you have nothing else, you just take the for for these guys on the far right when there's no other thing else, you just take a left wing talking point? Politics is a circle, so you just grab it from the other side and pull it over.
Ben Schachtman:Yeah, I agree, but I do think yeah, there was you know, if you're if you're if you're conservative in Wilmington, you are getting a lot of things that you want. Sure. I mean, it's I'm not sure how motivating, um, you know, the downtown crime issues, real though they are, were for someone who lives in, like, you know, the suburban sprawl of Wilmington. Property crime is up. But it's not like New York in the 70s up, you know? And so it is it an issue for a journalist? Yeah. Like, do I think, you know, staffing issues is a chronic problem that I hope this new council fixes. Yeah. But like I don't know if you live in just the burbs, it's you're not really feeling it. And so you're like yeah it's fine.
Reuel Sample:Yeah. So here's the big question is that the the mainstream media is saying this is bad news for Republicans in the midterms. This is there's been.
Ben Schachtman:Some there's been some media schadenfreude.
Reuel Sample:Yeah, yeah. Um, there's, uh, there's there's those they're like.
Ben Schachtman:Oh, no. Yeah, I've heard, I've heard I will admit I've heard a little bit of that.
Reuel Sample:Yeah. We've got, we've got a ton of stuff coming up next year. How much is this going to impact us for next year? I'll start with.
Nick Craig:This. I mean, midterm elections are always bad for the party in charge. It's historically been like that, like literally forever. So I don't know that you would draw I don't know that you can look at this. Even though the election results Republicans saw across the country on Tuesday could very well bear out next year, it's not because of the 2025 municipal locally or, you know, some of the gubernatorial races across the country. It's going to be a tough year for Republicans. I think the economic issues that, uh, still are very real, even as the administration tries to claim that we're getting 600 gazillion dollars worth of tariffs, people are still wondering why the hell everything is so expensive. So maybe maybe the math is not matching on that. And people are still feeling the pinch a little bit. Um, Republicans have a great opportunity going into the midterms. Zoran Mamdani I think winning in New York City is a great punching bag for Trump and the Republicans. Uh, Democrats will use that as could use that as an opportunity to to make the case that democratic socialism, which he said in his this is not this is not my tinfoil hat. He said it in.
Ben Schachtman:His.
Nick Craig:In his winning speech. I'm a proud Democrat socialist. Maybe this is an opportunity for them to say, look at the successes we've had in New York over the last, you know, six, eight months. Democratic socialism isn't that bad. And so so I think both parties have, have, have a great opportunity leading into next year.
Ben Schachtman:Here's a question for you guys. And I don't do national politics. So I'm kind of a babe in the woods here. But it seems to me that there's got to be some pressure on Trump to take what happened on Tuesday and pivot a little bit, not in terms of actual policies. I'm not saying that he would back off in any way on his economic policy, on his border policy, on how he's handling, you know, uh, foreign diplomacy. But maybe tone down the optics. And because it again, this felt like such an emotional vibe based election, not really an election, again, not really an election based on well-reasoned policy decisions. It was just like, I'm mad and I. So I will do this right. This is how I can take action. Um, and so if Trump is not constantly trolling the left, you know, if he's not doing the AI diarrhea videos, do you turn down, you know, the energy on the Democratic voters?
Reuel Sample:No. Absolutely not. I think Trump is actually doubling down. Is that it was just yesterday that he once again called for the for the folks to, uh, get rid of the, uh, the.
Ben Schachtman:The nuclear option.
Reuel Sample:The nuclear option, and get things done. Yeah, I think I think it's against both Trump's character and his policy to not double down. He's he's he's he is a pragmatist with and he sees, you know, you were talking about the the party in power has a hard time during the midterms. Always. Well, guess who's now the party in power in local spaces. It's the Democrats. Yeah. And it's going to be an interesting it's going to be an interesting turn of events. You mentioned Mamdani. He's going to be the poster child of everything that the Republicans talk about next year.
Nick Craig:Yeah. If he if he decides to go down that path and just turn, turning this back locally for a second, I mean, I think, you know, Democrats in the city of Wilmington have have a huge burden to bear on this, this moving forward. You've got a lot of a lot of people in the immediate after effect wondering what's going to happen with property taxes. Ben talked mentioned earlier some of the issues with WPD staffing. When you look at the ideologies of the people on the city council now, it's hard for it's going to be hard pressed for me to say, oh, this is an Leo law enforcement first group. They're just not. And I made this point on my podcast. Bill Saffo is the most conservative person on the Wilmington City Council by far. Not even not even close. You know, playing a different game pretty much than everybody else on the council. That's a wild turn in politics.
Ben Schachtman:That is a turn. I mean, it is interesting because I've talked to a lot of people who say, now we can get stuff done. And I remind them, like, we've had five. Yeah, on for for some time. And there is a sense that there were, you know, more moderate and, and more progressive, uh, Dems on council. And that's certainly true. And I think as excited as Democrats are to have seven out of seven, I do think over the next two years they're going to have to put up or shut up because they ran on some really complicated issues homelessness, affordable housing, public transportation, gentrification. And those are intractable issues in a lot of places. And and even over the last couple of years, divided government was not really what was stopping them from doing anything. So I with all due respect, I don't think the socialist apocalypse is coming. I think it's going to look similar in a way that will frustrate voters because they thought, okay, now, now finally we will, you know, embrace these sort of left leaning policies. And I, I mean, we'll see.
Reuel Sample:Did you see his message this morning from New York? Well, yeah. He gets up there and says, those of you who have stopped giving to my campaign, we need you to start giving again because all this is going to take money.
Nick Craig:Well, I noticed he had a he had a he had a cash bar at his election night party. And a lot of people were using that as like, man, this guy wants to give you free bus rides, but he can't pay for your vodka soda. What a scumbag.
Ben Schachtman:I am very curious about again, like I live in New York for a long time. Um, I don't keep my finger on the pulse of the politics there, but, uh, a lot of the things he's talking about seem very unlikely to succeed in a short period.
Nick Craig:Not only are they unlikely, he doesn't have the the power control to do many of them.
Ben Schachtman:I mean, that's New York City has always felt bigger than. Yes. Um, you know, the engine of New York City, the MTA is a toxic political football that everyone wants to take credit for. The governor and the mayor always want to take credit when it's going well. And then, you know, in the Second Avenue subway is 35 years overdue. Then they're both like, oh, no, that's a city thing. Or like, no, that's a state thing. The city just feels bigger than the mayor's office. And to I don't know. I mean, you could freeze rents. New York is criminally unaffordable. Freezing rents would just freeze it at the current level of criminal unaffordability.
Nick Craig:$7,000 a month.
Ben Schachtman:The gap. The gap is bonkers. It's not like a gap that we could make up. There are some places right where, you know, the average wages are lagging behind because of rent, cartel pricing in a lot of cases for apartments. And like if you could freeze them, which would be legally difficult, you might see the workforce catch up in four years. I don't think that really happens in large parts of NYC. And I say all that to say that, You know, I do feel like this is like the Dune freedom speech. And if you if you're gonna go there, you kind of have to deliver. And it's hard to it looks bad if you try to, you know, redial in your expectations after you've won. I mean, that's happened on both parties and lots and lots of elections, but I feel like that will be more than some kind of, you know, billionaire flight that leaves the city in flames. I feel like that will be the thing that bites him in the ass is having promised Liberation Day and then being like, all right, well, look, Third Avenue is a shit show. Like, I can't make the bus go any faster.
Nick Craig:Well, and I think to to the point locally that you were just bringing up before, I mean, the Democrats, not only the three successful Democrats that won, but some of the Democrats on council, the homelessness issue that's been discussed a lot. Transportation. This stuff does cost and take money. The city continues to deal with its budget issues. And Ben, to your point, I think it's going to be now put up or shut up. I mean, you know, for all of the folks that are saying, oh, the Republicans didn't win because of overdevelopment, rezoning, as Ben just pointed out, Democrats have held A52 majority on that council now for the last four years.
Ben Schachtman:And you know, this is an interesting again, this is very anecdotal. So not good political science. But I've met a couple people at the polls who had really gone around the horseshoe of politics a couple times. These are Bernie bros from 2016. Bernie gets the night of the Long Knives. Clinton gets the nod. Then they they drift towards Mega, right? Then they're kind of not happy about how Covid goes down. They drift towards Biden, then they're not happy. How Biden handles things. They drift back towards Trump, and now they're sort of like, who's next? And they could just. I met some who were in a point in the cycle where they were all on board with Manami and some who were still, you know, ride or die for Trump. And I wonder, you know, in the next election cycle, who gets the brunt of sort of the wrath of just unhappy voters?
Reuel Sample:It all depends if it is the policy of the Democrats and the others fall apart within the next year or so.
Ben Schachtman:I do think the money thing will be interesting because, as I've said, I think I said it on our podcast, we have a lot of these discussions without talking about price tags. Yes. And there are voters like me who are bleeding heart liberals who are like, yeah, I will pay more. I, you know, I support some, you know, kid growing up in the Caribbean and I got to give to the ASPCA. And you know what a schmuck some of you must be thinking schmuck. That's right.
Nick Craig:That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Thanks for thanks for solidifying.
Ben Schachtman:That was the look on his face was like.
Reuel Sample:What a.
Ben Schachtman:What a moron. But but if you came to me personally and said, you know, Ben, we're going to increase your tax rate by a little bit so we can build this homeless shelter. I would probably say yes, but that's not how government works, right? I don't get to tell. It's at the consent of the governed. Right. So if is everyone going to feel that way? I honestly don't know. And some of these are big ticket items, you know, bus, bus mass transit, very expensive. A couple million dollars a mile. You know, a homeless shelter, very expensive. Plus, you get to piss off at least one neighborhood. Oh, yeah. Where you put it, Um, you know, and I think we will find out how Blue Wilmington really is. And, you know, we know people like this on both sides of the aisle who are, you know, find, you know, stating their values at a cocktail party when if that's right.
Reuel Sample:Well, you know, for for my generation is that everybody wanted nuclear, nuclear power plants, just not in my backyard. Yes. So, uh, so let's pivot a little bit because I want to bring this up because these two seasoned media professionals.
Nick Craig:I don't call me that. That's highly inaccurate.
Reuel Sample:Two podcasts ago, they stated very clearly, yes, this shutdown is only going to last for two days.
Ben Schachtman:I did, I did, I copped to it. I thought the I thought the Dems would cave.
Nick Craig:So did I.
Reuel Sample:37 days, gentlemen. 30 not one note, by the way, saying rule. You were right.
Nick Craig:What do you mean? On our last pre-election episode, I admitted I was wrong.
Reuel Sample:Yeah, but not in writing.
Nick Craig:No, I said it here on your show. What do you mean? So, yeah.
Ben Schachtman:I was.
Reuel Sample:Wrong. Outstanding. Outstanding. I'll. I'll frame that frame. So, 37 days. Uh, the Democrats have been emboldened by these big wins. But are you going to see them come back, or are you going to see, uh, the the the, uh, nuclear option?
Ben Schachtman:The chaos Gremlin in me wants to see the nuclear option just to see what happens. You know, and I think both sides have been tempted. Obviously they've used, you know, tactical nuclear options for, you know, appointments and other issues. And it would be interesting to see a Senate unchained and not have this, you know, I don't know, antiquated, uh, gentleman's agreement. Hold them back. On the other hand, you know, if if Trump convinces the Senate to do this, they could easily regret it in a couple of years. So I don't I don't know, I do think it the, the war for whose fault it is has been, has been really interesting.
Reuel Sample:It has been interesting.
Ben Schachtman:I thought, and that's where I thought. I thought the Democrats would continue to lose the war. Of whose fault it is?
Reuel Sample:Well, they have they haven't they, they for some reason they have convinced folks somewhat the media.
Ben Schachtman:I'm not saying either side is like totally demolishing, but it's the fact that it's not a clear cut.
Nick Craig:Well, that's what that's I'm glad you bring up that point because like I've seen like in the same day, I've seen like a CNN poll that's like this is 100% the Democrats fault. And then the same day a Washington Post poll comes out and it's like, this is 100% the Republicans fault. And I'm like, how the hell can these how the hell can 800 likely voters in two very reputable outlets produce these, like a 60 point swing between the two polls? So I generally don't know who, uh, who to blame for on the nuclear option from a purely from a right wing political standpoint. There's two kind of thoughts with it. One is we got to get the government reopened starting on Friday. 10% reductions at 40 major airports, one of those being Charlotte Douglas. This is our option to do it and to the to the response to what Ben just brought up. Oh, well, then, you know, we could end up regretting this. The argument is, well, there's a dozen. Nothing stops the Democrats from doing the exact same thing when they get into power. So the question is, do you are you the one that pulls the pin or for the grenade or or do you wait for them to pull it? So I'm kind of fence sitting a little bit on that. Um, Trump really was banging that out a couple of weeks ago. He's seemingly hasn't mentioned it all. He he still is talking about it, but it seemed like early last week or early last week he was just hammering.
Ben Schachtman:That was the shiniest thing in front of him and I he did mention it earlier this week, which flooded a whole, prompted a whole new flood of explainer articles.
Nick Craig:But he's spoken. I mean, he spoke in Miami for like seven hours practically yesterday, and he does.
Ben Schachtman:Cover a lot of ground. He does. He covers a lot of ground.
Nick Craig:So I don't know if he's I don't know if he's assuming he's spoken with Thune, Senator Thune and his people and Susie Wild and Miller. And so he seemed like still kind of trolling it out there a little bit. But he if he was really hell bent on the filibuster, nuking and getting rid of the filibuster, he would be literally talking about it every hour of every day, which he's up like 21 of those 24 hours. Um, so, I mean, Democrats had huge wins on Tuesday. We'll see what the TSA stuff does. Thanksgiving is what about two and a half, two and a half weeks from now? A lot of big, big travel holiday. One of the probably what second biggest behind Christmas. So we'll see.
Ben Schachtman:Again back back to my point, I, I thought the Democrats were doing an insufficient job of explaining to their base and the country at large of why this is Republicans fault and why it's even if it is our fault, why this is a worthy cause, why this is worth losing soldiers for. And I think snap was a gift to them.
Nick Craig:Sure.
Ben Schachtman:Um, and the Trump administration doubling down. You had you talked about in your podcast and I all the policy reasons for what the administration did aside the optics of the Democrats being like, oh, Trump is starving. Poor people.
Nick Craig:Oh yeah.
Ben Schachtman:Go. Democrats go. I that was Trump did more for their case for prolonging the shutdown than they were doing I thought.
Nick Craig:Yeah.
Ben Schachtman:And I think that, you know again what you're saying, like if we have a travel disaster going to Thanksgiving.
Reuel Sample:It's.
Ben Schachtman:Going to. Oh boy.
Reuel Sample:But it all comes down to who, who, who gets the most messaging out of blaming the other party.
Nick Craig:Well, yes and no. And I've made this point consistently on my podcast. And for those that don't politically agree with me, they they will not like what I'm saying. But I'll go back to this. There's nothing for the GOP to cave on with this now. You could give Democrats some of their wish list items, sure, but there's nothing to say. Oh well, fine. We're going to pull this wish list item out of the bill. We're going to pull that wish list. There's nothing there's nothing in there. So that's what makes it. At the end of the day, I don't this does not get resolved with Democrats getting what they want because there's just no there's nothing the GOP has no reason to give it to them, and there's nothing for the GOP to compromise on. Using my one of my favorite words in politics, there's nothing to compromise on to get the government back open.
Reuel Sample:If the GOP uses the nuclear option, Trump is saying don't stop with the government of reopening. Just go, go, go.
Nick Craig:Yeah, that's that's got to be the approach. I mean, if you're going to if you're going to, uh, break in, break glass in case of emergency, you got to go balls to the wall with it and you got to I mean, you got to be ruthless with it. I mean, that's that's the to me, that's the political tactic.
Ben Schachtman:I do think if you're going to start a bar fight, you should probably plan to win the bar fight.
Nick Craig:Yes. And by the way, I would say the same thing if I was a Democrat. And, you know, for example, one of the discussions in years past has been, you know, packing the Supreme Court if you're going to get rid of the filibuster to do that, you got to do it. And you have to be very successful in doing so. You can't you can't tiptoe around it. You've got to you got to go all out on it.
Reuel Sample:The Republicans need to do is get rid of the get rid of the filibuster, pass all these laws and then make it difficult. Then put the filibuster back in and then make it difficult to break the filibuster again. That's what that's what they need to do.
Ben Schachtman:So I just I again, the Senate is such a foreign land to most people and the, uh, that, you know, just statesman's like addiction to history and tradition. I think if you I think if you break that, it stays broken. It is remarkable to me, remarkable to me. In 2025, in the era of Trump style politics, where, you know, Gavin Newsom is trying to do politics as a left Trump right, that anyone still has, like this starched collar approach to politics. So I think I think once that's gone, I don't think you can put it back.
Reuel Sample:Well, I think once we pass the 17th amendment, what, 100 years ago and just and we started electing senators directly instead of having that, that whole vestiges of a of a grand republic started going, going down the toilet.
Nick Craig:I think let me make just one more point on the filibuster. And this is a purely math thing I don't like. I don't like predicting political outcomes because it never works. Um, the likelihood of Democrats getting control of the Senate next year is, like incredibly low. There's like, they need to flip five seats. They have a good chance here in North Carolina. That's one. Um, they've got to defend a lot of important seats, including in Georgia. So from a purely political standpoint, the risk of losing the Senate next year, could it happen? Yes. But to me, the percentages are in single digits. The math is just not there for Democrats.
Ben Schachtman:I think it's 4 to 6 years before they've got a running shot at it.
Nick Craig:And so that might be part of the calculation is okay, we're going to we're going to blow this thing up. And fortunately we don't have to worry about losing control. But hopefully in ten you know, 10 or 11 months when when elections roll around. So, um, yeah, I was wrong Reuel. I'm sorry. I thought the government was going to reopen by.
Speaker6:The end of play.
Ben Schachtman:On a loop as ASMR.
Speaker6:You better go to sleep.
Reuel Sample:You better believe it. So are pivoting from politics? Uh, because it's been a week. From politics. Uh, things that you've noticed in the news. I'll start just so that you two can think about it, because, um, Trump is putting Nigeria back on the watch list. I don't know if you saw this.
Nick Craig:They said we're stepping away from politics. That is as political of a story as you can get.
Reuel Sample:What, uh, 350,000 Christians killed over the last 20 years.
Nick Craig:So. But but I don't want to discount your point, but is this a political story or a nonpolitical? You just said stepping away you just said.
Ben Schachtman:I, too am waiting for the pivot.
Nick Craig:Oh, yeah. You're like, you just said, guys we're stepping away from politics Trump Nigeria terror list. And I'm like, well, that's I'm.
Reuel Sample:Gonna go back to saying the two of you were wrong. So, um, um, so just something to think about is that, uh, you know, we enjoy a whole bunch of freedom here. This is the non politics part. We enjoy, uh, a whole bunch of freedom here. And, um, we still have folks around the world of all religions being just killed because. Simply because of what they believe.
Ben Schachtman:Yeah.
Reuel Sample:We just got to remember that.
Ben Schachtman:That is I feel like there that that is a thing that conservatives have won me over on over the years. And a large part of this came from just believe it or not, my time in academics, my time in the ivory tower was reading, you know, uh, Darkness at Noon, you know, was reading, uh, literature from colonial and post-colonial Africa where you're like, wow, it'll never be that bad. I will never do like a Shawshank crawl through a river of shit to escape a corrupt institution. I might get mad about it. I might say something on Facebook. I might even write a strongly worded blog post, but. Like, it'll never I will never be chased through the streets, uh, by an armed, government backed militia. Because I am Jewish. Because I am from the wrong tribe. Because I was born on the wrong side of some colonial line that's left in the sand. Like I would never experience that. And a little perspective I think would sometimes help in political debate.
Reuel Sample:Exactly.
Nick Craig:Yeah. I mean, I think that that's one to what Ben is describing right now. I think that's one of the big, I think, frustrations people my age and my generation of, oh my God, Trump won or Republicans won. America is the darkest place that exists in society. And it's like, well, Jesus, folks. Like, if you I mean, you don't have to go back. You don't have to go back in history at all. You can literally look at what is happening now in other places and say, like Ben just noted, I will never, no matter how bad it gets here, it will never be that bad.
Reuel Sample:Never. Okay, what's on your mind?
Nick Craig:Um. Hmm. I've got, I've got I've got some political things. I've got some nonpolitical whatever. So you tell me you want something political or something nonpolitical.
Reuel Sample:Whatever's on your mind.
Nick Craig:Um, there's been a a couple of internet, large internet scale outages over the last couple of, uh, probably about, I don't know, last month.
Reuel Sample:Amazon was down last week.
Nick Craig:Yeah, Amazon. There's been some Microsoft uh, issues. And it is interesting to see as companies of all sizes, large fortune 500 companies, midsize and even very, very small businesses as they have all adopted. And I'm my background is in technology, but they've all adopted SaaS software as a service for literally everything they do. And when those major providers are down, these businesses can do nothing. They can't turn the light on in the front of their shop. They can't take transactions. I mean, it's it's really it's it's it adds an interesting perspective of if there ever was a major, you know, every like was eight years or something. There's like, oh, there's going to be a huge flare, a big solar flare. What happens if everything breaks the, you know, go back to the was it the Burlington event back in the mid 1800s? Um, if something like that were to truly happen society. I mean, actually we probably would look like some of those places that that was describing because, I mean, you would Nothing. Nothing would happen. Literally nothing.
Ben Schachtman:I should have said. I hope I will never experience that.
Nick Craig:Yeah.
Ben Schachtman:I'm going to give you the the non-techy version of that, because I experienced this in a much dumber way. And it was just I had to be at the studio very early so I could ask people for money, because that's how public media works.
Nick Craig:Um, I though you guys had lost all your funding. What do you mean? I was told that you were going out of business.
Ben Schachtman:Ben, uh reports of our death have been, uh, drastically. I regret to inform you. Um, so I went to. There's a little coffee bar in my apartment complex, uh, so I can make coffee without waking my wife up. Because I try to be conscientious occasionally. And, uh, it was out because the internet connection was out.
Nick Craig:Oh. Very nice.
Ben Schachtman:And the way this coffee machine works is you scan it with a smartphone and you put in what you want your order to be, and then it spits it out. The little gnomes inside ground the beans and make the coffee. Right. But because the internet connection was down, it wasn't out of coffee. It wasn't a power outage. It wasn't a water main break. The internet connection was out because there was no internet. I couldn't have coffee. And I thought, this is the dystopian nightmare that sci fi writers have been warning us about for, you know, and you know this for decades.
Nick Craig:So there's a great phrase for that, and you'll have to excuse my profanity, but it is called the Internet of Shit. And that is exactly what Ben is describing.
Ben Schachtman:When I experienced it.
Nick Craig:When the internet doesn't work and you can't use your fridge, your washing machine, your toaster oven, you can't get coffee.
Ben Schachtman:The same and the same. So on the way to work, um, someone sent me. It was a video from a podcast, and they were talking about how Samsung is going to debut ads on the digital screen on its, on its. And I can imagine being like, starving. And I have to watch a 30 second ad before I can open my refrigerator door. And I was like, the Luddites were right. The Luddites were right.
Reuel Sample:I could just picture you there in your bathrobe, just looking at this coffee that you. It's right there.
Ben Schachtman:It's right there.
Reuel Sample:But you can't do anything.
Nick Craig:Did you think about breaking it? And just like trying it was there like a it was like. I'm sure it was like one of the, like, nice ones with like, the glass where you could see the beans. Was there a part of you that was like, if I just, like, push this thing hard enough, I could probably make some coffee.
Ben Schachtman:I did think about the last resort of all, uh, non tech savvy people, which was extreme violence. And the caffeine withdrawal was helping me.
Nick Craig:Yeah, yeah.
Reuel Sample:Star Trek. There's always a manual override. But not. Not for this.
Ben Schachtman:Not for this.
Reuel Sample:So what do you got, Ben?
Ben Schachtman:Oh, man. What have we got? Um. Do any politics or not?
Reuel Sample:What's up? Whatever's up on your. At the top of your brain.
Ben Schachtman:I can't believe that we are, uh, already doing the primary election for 2026. I'm sorry.
Nick Craig:What do you mean? It's like it just started. It's been going on for, like five months now.
Ben Schachtman:I know, like, we're already, uh. I've heard rumors of a sheriff's primary. I know there will be a primary for the Democratic candidates for county commissioner.
Reuel Sample:Mhm.
Ben Schachtman:Um. Good lord. We should have a moratorium.
Reuel Sample:When is registration.
Nick Craig:A moratorium on construction? No more apartments and moratorium on elections for one.
Ben Schachtman:At least give us a month.
Reuel Sample:We're just going to shut everything down. Just for a couple of years.
Ben Schachtman:No, I thought about that. And I thought about, um, this year was kind of underwhelming for October surprises.
Reuel Sample:Um, we had that one with the voter thing that just didn't really go anywhere.
Ben Schachtman:It, uh, it was very curious. And I got, um, a lot of hate mail for writing about it, um, from folks on the left. But, you know, I made my defenses online. I won't I won't go back to that, but usually we get an avalanche of stuff. Um, and this year there was that and a couple other little things, but nothing that was. I mean, usually it's like someone has been sitting on this like a dossier for a while, and it's, you know, that last couple days I'm just waiting.
Reuel Sample:And it means that the parties probably did their jobs clearing and vetting their folks.
Nick Craig:Well, yeah, I mean, you know, and it kind of goes to, you know, Bill has been the mayor for 20 years. I mean, there's plenty of plenty of issues and things that people can criticize him for, but none of it's new. I mean, it's not none of it's a secret. You go on Instagram and you see the video. Who are the five most wealthiest, wealthiest people in Wilmington? And he's number 2 or 3. So it's not it's not a secret at this point. Um, so it's hard when you've got. And same thing with Jonathan Barfield. I mean, in public office for 16 plus years. What's the what's the what's the bombshell going to be.
Reuel Sample:Well, we're going to start wrapping up is in the middle of their their is it an annual fundraiser?
Ben Schachtman:We just wrapped up our, uh, twice annual.
Reuel Sample:Okay. Um, some people call that a semiannual.
Ben Schachtman:Some people do. Uh, I'm saying I'm holding out that it could one day be an annual.
Speaker6:But I don't.
Ben Schachtman:Think we're there. I don't think we're there. Yeah. It's, uh. Look, it's an insane way to fund journalism. Um, but it's, uh, less insane than all the other ways I've tried. I've worked for, you know, paywalls. I've worked. I've worked for, uh, you know, subscription models. And so this is as insane as this one is. It's the least crazy.
Reuel Sample:Well, if you've got a couple bucks, uh, check out and, um, and, uh, Ben does some really good, some really good stuff. Your articles on all this stuff has been have been very, very good. Nick. Over there on the Nick Craig Show.
Nick Craig:You know, corporate media as well. I have to beg. I beg for money as well. So, um. Yeah, it's.
Ben Schachtman:It's a better model than having a corporate overlord.
Nick Craig:You know, it kind of is. And this has been it's been an interesting transition. I left the radio gig here in July of last year. Um, and it is, it is, it's very cool. And I've had some experiences out working early voting where people not only appreciate what you're saying, but appreciate it enough to to throw you ten, 15, 20, $50. It's just it is a very cool model. And, um, it is it's growing. I mean, it's a it is probably the fastest increasing vertical within media right now is there's a whole bunch of different names crater funded, self-funded, whatever. Um, so it's very cool.
Reuel Sample:People throw their support behind what they what.
Nick Craig:I mean, and I've been, you know, I do that with craters and things outside of politics that I enjoy. And it's so it's so it's cool. Yeah. Everything. Everything going well over at the Nick Craig Show.
Reuel Sample:Outstanding. And we have added at the Wilmington Standard a daily update that goes out every morning, uh, about two minutes long. So. And we could always use your support as well. So check us out at the Wilmington. We're just three guys just asking for money.
Nick Craig:So I mean actually, yeah. When you really, really, really are. So hopefully the city doesn't outlaw us. They'll put in some, uh, some zoning ordinance and kick us out.
Reuel Sample:So, uh, so, uh, folks, thanks for listening. Uh, please comment, like and subscribe on all of your podcast, uh, platforms. We really do want to hear from you. We read every single comment that you leave. And up to this point there haven't been that many. So please let us know what you think. Please let us know what you voted for in the Wilmington elections. We really would like to know that as well. So for Nick Craig and Ben Chapman, I'm Reuel Sample. Thanks for listening.